The standard head has a bit smaller combustion chamber I think so it would have more compression. I heard people use hemi blocks with standard head for that reason
I purchased a 224 performance max today. It seems to have hemi head. Same rockers and aluminum valve cover . Didn't know this was a thing. Have your seen them at harbor freight
I had the same understanding of this swap, but I decided to use the flat top piston off a hemi n kept the stock non hemi head, n I gotta say, the compression is CRAZY. Feels spunkier than my similar non hemi w the stock piston
Did the same in this video. Except I used a GX160 head with the 14cc chamber with the hemi flat top. A lot of compression. Check it out...th-cam.com/video/TZAC_O23KNo/w-d-xo.html
The stock engine on a Coleman cc100x is a 3.0hp with an 19mm intake manifold size and carburetor size aswell.THE PREDATOR 212 engine is a 6.5hp and those intake manifold sizes are VM 22mm’s and up.
Years ago they dyno'd the Champion 196, Predator, and GX200 for the same article. All had "stage 1" kits only and maximum power was in the mid 4K RPM range. The Champion 196 had the most horsepower of the three with nearly 3/4 of a HP more than Predator and more than 1 HP more than the Honda. I'll take the better rockers and 1 HP for $25 or so for my 196's.
@@Black66 i have and where i live they think its the coolest thing ever but dont like it being on the road but iv was told as long as i stay off main roads and out of traffic stick to riding around the neighborhood or back country roads where theres less cars and not likely to bother anyone
I'm going from hemi to non hemi....I wish I had the tool to cut spring pockets but its cheaper to get a non hemi head milled and run that..coil bind sucks.
I have a Juggernaut and 10k rated flywheel for my hemi 212.. i also have an older standard 212 head... should I swap the hemi head with standard head and add the better flywheel and gov delete ...im simply trying to make good use of the juggernaut which ive heard only gets better results at higher rpms???
I'm surprised you didn't have to swap the cam for a hemi style cam I was told the hemi cams have a taller lift because the seat hight on the heads is higher so maybe your issue was the hemi head wasn't able to get a tall enough lift on valves making it slightly slower
Yah because of the valve seat angle of the hemi head it will limit your lift because the tip of the valve will hit the piston the non hemi head the valve seats are not angled so the face of the valve faces the top of the piston actually allowing for more lift but the mod2 cam is a low lift cam ment for lower rpm power really great cam but it really needs a little more lift to really come alive the non hemi head is also about 4cc smaller then the hemi and requires less work to get more lift and bigger springs in without modification to the head
@@Black66 the valve train weight is the issue and it will never really be a fair test. Maybe if you did a aftermarket stainless valves dual spring billet retainers. Then valve float won't be your Rev limiter. I ported many of both valve size being the same compression the same hemi all day it's a air speed thing.
@@mauricedavis2905 This test was mainly to see what would happen if a guy bolted on a stock Predator head, stock head to stock head. I guess if you had a stock Predator lying around it would be a quick bump in performance. without getting into aftermarket valve train items.
@Stingyduce that's because of the spring pocket a piston to valve clearance. They're outstanding for a minibike swap. where it's only getting a pipe and air cleaner and a gov delete. Port the head thin headgasket and bored the carburetor. But then there fun I have a friends kid running around on a ported Tillotson 212 for 3 years. The rev limiter is valve float🤣
Sounds like you're sucking extra air. Putting your hand over the carb forces the engine to suck more fuel and richens up the mixture. Check your intake gaskets for proper seal. Make sure fuel float is letting enough fuel in.
Hey man been watching a ton of your videos and there awesome what i know about these little engines is that the non hemi has same size valves at 27 25 but smaller stems at 5mm but a smaller combustion chamber to unlock the mod 2 in a non hemi put stamped 1.3 ratio rockers 20 bucks for the pair and it really wakes up all the way to 7k that bubs the mod 2 to 290 lift on intake and 300 lift for exhaust if you where to bump compression to 12.5 :1 i bet it would become more of a wild engine and get you closer to 70 75mph but if i was you when you get a second check out( puals karts ) on TH-cam man really knows his small engine science and he sells parts
@@madness_-yg3lw yea it could have I wasn’t saying it didn’t. Just saying different heads have different specs like these for example Gen 1 5.5 stem 25/24mm non hemi Gen 2 5.5 stem 27/25mm hemi Gen 3 5.0 stem 25/24mm non hemi Just depends on what year and model you have.
You have to work to get a hemi head to make power. My engine has a milled head and fly cut piston valve reliefs. Ported with 26lb springs and .0010 head gasket. Mamba jr cam. Hemis breathe way better. Just swapping heads is not a fair comparison without setting it up correctly
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First in! Great info! Thanks for these vids!
I've heard a few other people mention that the Non-Hemi head makes more power than the Hemi.
I said are U sure??
Now U just proved it. Good to know
The standard head has a bit smaller combustion chamber I think so it would have more compression. I heard people use hemi blocks with standard head for that reason
I purchased a 224 performance max today. It seems to have hemi head. Same rockers and aluminum valve cover . Didn't know this was a thing. Have your seen them at harbor freight
Black66 Another Cool Video. Can't Wait To See More On The Maga Moto Frame Strech
It’s coming along ! It’s going to be awesome! I have more videos coming
@@Black66 Thank's And You And Yours Have A Good Thanksgiving
@@albertpeterson7134 Same to you, thank you!
I like your videos. Keep up the good work.
I had the same understanding of this swap, but I decided to use the flat top piston off a hemi n kept the stock non hemi head, n I gotta say, the compression is CRAZY. Feels spunkier than my similar non hemi w the stock piston
Did the same in this video. Except I used a GX160 head with the 14cc chamber with the hemi flat top. A lot of compression. Check it out...th-cam.com/video/TZAC_O23KNo/w-d-xo.html
@@Black66 do that build over again but add stamped 1.3 ratio rockers from omb warehouse those this make a night and day difference for very cheap
@@madness_-yg3lw Ya, I’ve been wanting to add ratio rockers on a mod 2
I think the non hemi head was only faster because you had the rockers on it.You do great work.
Thanks! The rockers I had on it were shaft rockers with a 1.1 ratio The Hemi has the same setup.
I like what u do keep it up 👍🏽
Ok, Thank you!
I like your speed runs.
Love the videos 💯
Thanks!
I got a mikuni carburetor for a Coleman cc100x, and the adapter is to big for the engine, is there anything that will fix it.
That have an intake manifold that will fit a cc100x at affordablegokarts.com
The stock engine on a Coleman cc100x is a 3.0hp with an 19mm intake manifold size and carburetor size aswell.THE PREDATOR 212 engine is a 6.5hp and those intake manifold sizes are VM 22mm’s and up.
Another good video, have you considered naming all of your mini bikes?
Yes!
If we can swap from hemi to non hemi head with the same cam why is there different cams for hemi & non hemi? Love your stuff @black66
Thanks! Yes here is the cam identification video th-cam.com/video/6Q_ngCckaJI/w-d-xo.html
have you done a test comparing the Champion rockers versus the GX160 and GX200 stamped ones?
No, but that's a good idea!
Years ago they dyno'd the Champion 196, Predator, and GX200 for the same article. All had "stage 1" kits only and maximum power was in the mid 4K RPM range. The Champion 196 had the most horsepower of the three with nearly 3/4 of a HP more than Predator and more than 1 HP more than the Honda. I'll take the better rockers and 1 HP for $25 or so for my 196's.
hi are you sure the non hemi is stock the valves look big the intake should be 25mm the exhaust should be 24mm they look bigger in that head
Gen 123 stuff! Gen 3 non-hemi is 5mm stems and 27/25 valves same as Gen 2 hemi but with 5.5 stems. Gen 1 non-hemi had 24/25 valves like a clone.
No suprise to me your tuned for the stock head ... try tuning the a/f for the hemi
Check out the many other Hemi VS NON HEMI videos on the channel th-cam.com/video/xV8i59aGUao/w-d-xo.html
Great information. Do you ever get a hassle from the police?
Thanks! No, not yet …
@@Black66 i have and where i live they think its the coolest thing ever but dont like it being on the road but iv was told as long as i stay off main roads and out of traffic stick to riding around the neighborhood or back country roads where theres less cars and not likely to bother anyone
I'm going from hemi to non hemi....I wish I had the tool to cut spring pockets but its cheaper to get a non hemi head milled and run that..coil bind sucks.
Yes, check out the playlist if you haven't already. Most of the bikes on the channel are non-Hemi th-cam.com/video/rF7xAz02INA/w-d-xo.html
Good speed runs
I have a Juggernaut and 10k rated flywheel for my hemi 212.. i also have an older standard 212 head... should I swap the hemi head with standard head and add the better flywheel and gov delete ...im simply trying to make good use of the juggernaut which ive heard only gets better results at higher rpms???
good video but will yu do a 17 tooth racing max torque clutch I wonna c wat it do before I buy it
If you check out my other videos,I try multiple different clutches and gear ratios. I have a 17 and 18 tooth in a few videos
Love the vids but where do you buy predator 212 non hemi heads?
Thanks! A few different places, but a lot of the time I get them here www.ebay.com/itm/114696478309?hash=item1ab4715e65:g:6SsAAOSwJVxgMiBN
Why the heck did Predator make 2 versions of the 212? They're both rated as 6.5 hp. I ain't a math wiz, but 6.5 = 6.5. Supposed to, at least.
I'm not sure...
I'm surprised you didn't have to swap the cam for a hemi style cam I was told the hemi cams have a taller lift because the seat hight on the heads is higher so maybe your issue was the hemi head wasn't able to get a tall enough lift on valves making it slightly slower
In this test i was running a Mod2 cam . Same lift and duration as the non-Hemi Mod2
Yah because of the valve seat angle of the hemi head it will limit your lift because the tip of the valve will hit the piston the non hemi head the valve seats are not angled so the face of the valve faces the top of the piston actually allowing for more lift but the mod2 cam is a low lift cam ment for lower rpm power really great cam but it really needs a little more lift to really come alive the non hemi head is also about 4cc smaller then the hemi and requires less work to get more lift and bigger springs in without modification to the head
Does the The non HEMI head no need a hose with filter??? Or am I wrong
Black 66 could you Pleases post a link to where I could get the clutch and chain guard at ?
I added the links in the description. Thanks!
A hemi is always the best choice now the problem you have is valve float.
I was running 22lb springs on both heads in this video so it would be a fair comparison
@@Black66 the valve train weight is the issue and it will never really be a fair test. Maybe if you did a aftermarket stainless valves dual spring billet retainers. Then valve float won't be your Rev limiter. I ported many of both valve size being the same compression the same hemi all day it's a air speed thing.
@@mauricedavis2905 This test was mainly to see what would happen if a guy bolted on a stock Predator head, stock head to stock head. I guess if you had a stock Predator lying around it would be a quick bump in performance. without getting into aftermarket valve train items.
No way non hemi is the way to go that has been proven most that’s why there are head swap kits available
@Stingyduce that's because of the spring pocket a piston to valve clearance. They're outstanding for a minibike swap. where it's only getting a pipe and air cleaner and a gov delete. Port the head thin headgasket and bored the carburetor. But then there fun I have a friends kid running around on a ported Tillotson 212 for 3 years. The rev limiter is valve float🤣
u lowered compression
You should look into getting a Dyno!
I would really like to have one.
Have ya ever had a vm 22 carb givE YA problems I got one if I hold my hand over it start but just dyes right away
Sounds like you're sucking extra air. Putting your hand over the carb forces the engine to suck more fuel and richens up the mixture. Check your intake gaskets for proper seal. Make sure fuel float is letting enough fuel in.
Hey man been watching a ton of your videos and there awesome what i know about these little engines is that the non hemi has same size valves at 27 25 but smaller stems at 5mm but a smaller combustion chamber to unlock the mod 2 in a non hemi put stamped 1.3 ratio rockers 20 bucks for the pair and it really wakes up all the way to 7k that bubs the mod 2 to 290 lift on intake and 300 lift for exhaust if you where to bump compression to 12.5 :1 i bet it would become more of a wild engine and get you closer to 70 75mph but if i was you when you get a second check out( puals karts ) on TH-cam man really knows his small engine science and he sells parts
I really like Paul’s karts . I’m thinking of using his Trinity package on one of my builds
@@Black66 that would be such a awesome video seeing it in action and compared to other set ups it would definitely get my view lol
Hemi and non hemi have different sized valves depending on year model and head, not all are 27/25.
@@ironascension9419 my non hemi came with 27 25s on a 5mm stem with automotive style retainers 69730 non hemi
@@madness_-yg3lw yea it could have I wasn’t saying it didn’t. Just saying different heads have different specs like these for example Gen 1 5.5 stem 25/24mm non hemi
Gen 2 5.5 stem 27/25mm hemi
Gen 3 5.0 stem 25/24mm non hemi
Just depends on what year and model you have.
Are you porting your heads?
Yes, a couple of them are ported. The Mega Moto project is going to have a ported head also.
@@Black66 Thanks for the reply! In this particular video were the heads ported?
@@garagemancave666 Pretty much any video with the GX160 head. Here is one of them th-cam.com/video/Xh0om5moxB0/w-d-xo.html
What flywheel was used
In this video I used the ARC 6696 Predator 212 Hemi Speedway Billet Flywheel because I was using a Hemi bottom end .
I been hearing the non hemi was better guess it's TRUE
You have to work to get a hemi head to make power. My engine has a milled head and fly cut piston valve reliefs. Ported with 26lb springs and .0010 head gasket. Mamba jr cam. Hemis breathe way better.
Just swapping heads is not a fair comparison without setting it up correctly
Also a .020 longer rod, forgot to mention that.
I hear ya.There are many different combos or set ups. These videos a mainly to see what the average guy would get if he did a basic swap .
thats weird mabey it gets up there quicker tho
True! I ll have to do a zero to thirty test on this combo.
Need a smaller sprocket
The bike has had many different sprockets and combos. Check out the playlist th-cam.com/video/tJeup9bo-wo/w-d-xo.html
And you call it basic, hum