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Why the obsession with Zia? Interesting, how people like to find one person/event to lay the blame upon. Pakistan was rotten long before Zia. Pakistan was never a country. It was a "jaagir" for Muslim elites who feared economic/political alienation in a "secular" India. Jinnah was merely a broker. Once religious "high" was over, these elites pinned the obsession of people on Kashmir and India. It was none other than the "secular" Bhutto who declared the "thousand years war" against India which was later shaped into "Bleed India by thousand cuts" by Zia. So when people blame Zia for fundamentalism, they are wrong. Pakistan was born out of fundamentalism.
He is trying very hard to get in good books of LeLi gang, this is my observation cause he was fairly neutral untill 2017 but something happened in '19 which seems making him rally towards LeLi...
After I finish watching CTC, I always make sure I scroll down to read your astute observations on various topics...I think you should write opinion pieces in the Print Keep them comments coming
I am originally from Afghanistan but live in USA . I really appreciate your analysis. That was probably one of the major events of the 20th century after world war 1 and 2.
The Grand Indus Army owns, occupies and ru(i)ns Pakistan enforcing Britain's messianic ideology in the region of everlasting hostility towards Russia (The Great Game) for a fistful of $$$ and a few $$$ more. India, Afghanistan, Central Asia, China and Russia should form a strategic alliance to liberate the Indus Valley from British & US influence and then aim for Eurasian Integration to overtake the US as the most powerful economic, military and political power in the world. th-cam.com/video/Bwvl5gGrmdA/w-d-xo.html
If not Zia there would have been some other person to fill his shoes. The mentality he represented was always there, which is quite evident from that country's history before Zia (1947-1977). In 1971 they killed 3 million Bengalis, attacked India several times. They also had already used their non state actors during 1947 and 65 wars. They had already banned Ahmadiya sect. I also don't agree with you on Jinnah. He said different things to different people on different occasions. What actually matters is not his words but his actions.
Under Zia rule Pakistan lost siachin glacier to indian army in 1984 and Benazir even offered her bangles to Zia and Pakistan army for humiliated defeat in siachin
This episode has completely misplaced timing and priority. We have discussed Zia many times in prior episodes. We could have discussed Shinzo Abe's death and it's impact on certain policies that Japanese government may take, rupee crisis and why we are not exporting as much as we aim for, Sri Lanka's govt collapse and what can be a permanent solution to its financial crisis etc etc.
Buddy it is apt and much needed for Indian youngsters because YOGI LIKELY TO FOLLOW IN SAME PATH working with Democrats of USA BUT WITH WAY WORSE CONSEQUENCES FOR INDIA , ASIA AND THE WORLD Kamala will want to use Yogi against China Like Carter used Zia against USSR, BUT this war won't be just minor but likely to lead to nuclear apocalyptic ww3
Indira Gandhi. She is THE WOMAN!! May she rest in peace. As a Bangladeshi i absolutely loved that woman. She in her saree did all the globe trotting to help form Bangladesh. Many lives were saved by her due to her actions. Far far far more important than Zia ul Haq.!!!
One important thing which I guess should be highlighted is that he used the time during soviet war very smartly by building nuclear weapons technology very quickly, he knew that right now americans need him to defeat soviets so he used this opportunity and made quick progress to build nuclear weapons and Americans remained mum in this time period.
Education, economic prosperity, innovation, communal harmony, freedom for citizens etc. make the country progress fast. Such a country becomes useful for rest of the world. In case any of these are absent and if such a country has just nuclear weapons, then such a country becomes a pure headache for the world. Such countries will be gradually destroyed by rest of the world by using the leaders of the country itself. Example - North Korea, Pakistan, Russia.
Nuke program was established and started by ZA Bhutto long before Manhoos Zia took over. That was a major reasons for Bhutto hanging and murder by ZIA. Bhutto had built the Lab and left at least 300 million dollars cash, Zia had no choice but to continue. He destroyed Pakistan
villian is far better.. he was a back-stabber who won trust of bhutto, then bhutto promoted him and lastly he kyld that same man bhutto with fake charges.. all within 3 years.. pak history is full of traitors like this.. Iskander mirza, the great-grandson of mirzafar, also betrayed gulam mohammad to get presidency, mirza dismissed gulam while gulam set him as acting governor before going to hospital for treatment.. most mullahs are like this.. never trust any of them
It's contradictory to state that Zia "Islamized" Pakistan; The very premise of Pakistan was political Islam; All Zia might have done is to instutionalize that!
@@zaina5569 speeches don't count boy, actions do! We know what was the feelings of jinnah for Hindus, with him announcing "direct action"! Hindus have shrunk from 14%to 8% in Bangladesh ! Too much for secularism ya!
I’m Pakistani and I don’t understand why some Indians will push this narrative Jinnah wanted a secular state. Jinnah wanted political Islam, he just didn’t live long enough to write the constitution.
Nah, I have to disagree with you on this one. Neither did Nehru, Indira, or Zia had the most lasting impact. It has to be narasimha rao, Nothing comes near to the path he set up for us in 1991, it has led us to where we are now and where we will be in the future.
Coz,we should know those responsible for creating confusion n caous,even world leaders today who are terrorist in nature Should be brought b4 public What about those responsible for spoiling Iraq afg in the name of terrorism, just coz you are well equipped ,you can't wage war on innocent people. Wait n watch what God has his plans for arrogant boasters
Pakistan`s Zia ul-Haq was stationed in Jordan from 1967 to 1970 as a Brigadier.Pakistani and Jordanian army massacred twenty-five thousand Palestinians in Jordan`s refugee camp when they rioted because of poor living conditions.The dreadful event is known as "Black September"
Basic cause of all the miseries in the world today is traceable to Islam. The day Islam was born is the most unfortunate day in the history of the mankind. Why blame Zias, Aurangzeb, khalji, Ghazni and tughlaqs? Islam sanctified violence.
SG sir. Thank you very much for the fantastic history explainer. Also may I suggest Sri Lanka protests as a topic for any upcoming CTC episode. Thank you sir.
Dear Shekhar sa'ab Please make CTC on internal politics of China, prospects of Mr Xi's third term, also please convey the message how powerful/weak is China currently in backdrop of Evergrande/economic slowdown/taming of business tycoons etc. Is anti-Xi coalition is cropping up? Yours faithfully Watching CTC since 2019
Nobody knows what is happening in China. Not even the best China watchers in West or even many Chinese. SG might not be in a position to do this analysis.
Islam in Pakistan has produced strange and contradictory characters . Bhutto , a Democrat sow the seeds of islamization, which was further nurtured by a still peculiar character in uniform , Zia-Ul-Haque ,who turned his country into a modern global jihadi centre. So effective, it is the Bhutto ,who is the father and grand-master of jihadi outfits with Zia as his disciple. But at the centte of it all is the Islam as the driving for for both of them. 2). Like Mughals, succession has never been peaceful in Pakistan since its birth. In this the Pakistanis are emulating mughals, if not in culture.
Mughals built this subcontinent & most of them were secular to the core... You probably blinded by your hateful Hindutva ideology, but that Doesn't change the history.
Being a Pakistani, I appreciate your in-depth knowledge about Pakistan and giving your time to topics related to Pakistan Although at time you become unnecessarily patriotic when talking about Pakistan but it’s completely natural Overall I appreciate your Analysis...
At least "unnecessarily patriotic" people have forex reserves of 590 billion dollars not like bankrupt "unnecessarily r@dical" g-hadists who don't have money to import tea
@@guurindersinghsfather1068 Your comment is a true example of unnecessary patriotism (in your case it is fake hyper nationalism) Indians are not realizing that in the world India has lost its soft power. It’s dangerous for the fabric of secular India.
Basic moral of the story was, the day Pakistan was made Pakistani wanted to loot its money, not a single good person ruled their and nobody thought they need to work on “ law” social structure education health or science… end result is in 2022 Pakistan is on edge of bankruptcy So we can define Pakistan as from “1947 to 2022” that’s life story of a land made on the name of islam, land got destroyed on the name of islam Basically allah k liye paida huye , allah allah krte mar gye .. bich bich main bas aas pados ko dukhi kia …
@@jaspeeetkaur5608 Kind of true. But don't be overjoyed. India's debt is USD 620 billion versus 122 billion for Pakistan. Per Capita each Indian owes 4 times that of Pakistan. Foreign currency reserves and issues that Pakistan has can be solved. Indian debt to GDP has been heading the wrong way and has been under Modi but a level of misdirection solves many problems in politics. Old politician trick.
Overdose of Pakistan. There are 200 other countries and half a dozen neighbors. This obsession with Pakistan is now getting little irritating. Is it the punjabi obsession? Same thing that killed Pakistan. Maybe a discussion on Tamilnadu politics and their breakaway tendencies would be interesting or anything else.
"That's just like your opinion, man" (Said Lebowski). Pakistan is one of the most bizarre & interesting countries. Also a nuclear armed neighbour with common history. You can never have enough of Pakistan, even if you take only entertainment.
Britain's and NATO's obsession with the Great Game, everlasting hostility towards Russia, makes the Grand Indus Army that owns, occupies and ru(i)ns Pakistan, important.
I have taken the subscription today and feels great to watch this CtC as a member, first. Guys do take the print's subscription to support unbiased, uninfluenced journalsim.
I'm a subscriber too but don't think all print members are neutral, I took subscription for Shekhar ji, DK , NP but completely ignore Sanghvi and Jyothi who openly show bias.
they dont claim to be unbiased. They claim to be honest and fair, there is a difference that, a person who watches Indian television media cannot understand. Nobody can be unbiased, everyone has an ideology, and even Judges are not unbiased. People have to understand the difference between blatant propaganda and truth.
I am not aware of the influence of Gen Zia on India but here in Pakistan the legacy of his impact has been a disastrous and still continue his legacy also included the Sharif brothers who consider him thier political father both of whom are corrupt & involved in Money Laundering
Pakistan was bound to go in that way. if not Zia ul haq, someone else would have taken them towards extreme Islamist ideology. Just like Afghanistan went back to extremism, paxtanis will also go the same way.
You have provided a real valuable insight into jehadi culture and it is a real threat in Kerala state where from funding is being provided for pan India operation other than may be in Bengal, Assam and J&K.
Dear Mr. Gupta: Thank you for the great presentation. Former Pakistani President and CMLA General Zia -ul - Haque was possibly the most skilled dictator to rule a country. He worked through the matrix of America-Soviet rivalry, enmity with India, and efforts to entrench his own power very effectively to determine results conducive for him. For quite some time matters went quite well for him. But, subsequently as is the case with almost all dictators, resentments started coming out like steam from a pressure cooker. Opposition to him was growing within the country, Russians were threating him, and relations with India reflected perpetuation of mistrust laced with surface courtesies. Perhaps most important was the collective aftermath of paranoia, tyranny, aggressive predilection, and religious extremism in Pakistan. His death from an unresolved plane crash was above all the aftermath of the social turbulence and orgy in Pakistan. The initiator tragically became its own victim, after causing misery for so many. As the world struggles with coping economic hardships, political high-handedness, and religious fundamentalism, we in India would have to keep devising methods to manage our relations with Pakistan effectively. After all, as the illustrious political commentator and editor, Inder Malhotra, once put it, India would have to learn to live with Pakistan as any less fortunate person does with a bad kidney. General Zia's long stint in power in Pakistan has made the India's relations with Pakistan more prolonged and more challenging. With Regards, Ranajoy Sen
There are some common misconceptions peddled here by SG. Jinnah didn't intend Pak to be Islamic state and said so in 1947. However, Jinnah retracted his statement soon after and said in Jan 11 in Karachi Bar Association: "I could not understand a section of people who deliberately wanted to create mischief and made a propaganda that the constitution of Pakistan would not be made on the basis of Shariat.” Sharia based Constitution cannot be considered Secular.
Just like Quran, People take what they are good with it. Jinnah made two opposite statements on same points. Islamist refer to Constitution based on Sharia. And secular refer to his other speech. In the conflict, As of now Islamist has won in Pakistan. I don't see changes in nation for next 20 years. Salafi and Wahabi movement destroyed South Asia.
The most important personality in this region in our lifetime is former pm Sri PV Narsimha Rao. Nobody can surpass the impact he created by his policy making.
I live in Pakistan, and sometimes I wonder will Pakistan Really Collapse just because of Economy, The answer is no. Why? Pakistan is never dependent on economy, The economy is for ruling elites to make more reserves, get luxury items, smuggle goods to AFG and other central states. There is no check and balance, Otherwise we see cheapest oil at some places as well, its just that is from Banned neighbors and is used by people to get extra benefit ( you know what I mean ). We see lots of $$ being traded by people in private sector, which is even more than people can imagine. Moral of story: Whenever Pakistan collapses it wont be because of economy and it never was an economy issue😅. It will be because of its ruling Elite.
People here commenting that Pakistan was always a fundamentalist country should do some reading of subcontinental politics. While Pakistan was envisioned as a motherland for subcontinental Muslims, the founding fathers could hardly be called fundamentalists. In fact, early Pakistani leaders were very much from the same fabric as the early Indian leaders. The difference is that early Indian leaders did a good job of keeping the military professional, building fairly robust democratic institutions and avoiding fundamentalist blowback. Pakistan could not do that. And over time, the failure of the 'system' allowed the regression to fundamentalism. And those saying the anti-India POV in Pakistan stems from Islamic fundamentalism - I'd argue that by the same definition, the Afghan population (and the Middle East too) could also be construed as fundamentalists. Why isn't the anti-India sentiment as strong there as it is in Pakistan? Nepal is not an Islamic country, why is the anti-India sentiment so strong there? We must acknowledge that the Indo-Pak hostility has a historical/geopolitical/cultural aspect to it too. Calling Pakistan "rotten from the start" is an excuse to ignore the nuances of human character and history.
You are to obsessed with Pakistan... There are many important topics within India and in geopolitics (except pakistan) as well... Enough of this jokistaan
Every politician from Pakistan is a character. Times have changed now, Ab, IMF Nachayega, US chakrayega aur China Satayega. Sad that this Nation couldn’t give anything to the world except terror and destruction. Now its self destroying.
Had Pakistan been a part of INDIA. Hindus would be working and Pakistanis enjoying free rations and medical facility without working and attacking Hindus as well
When I was in college,( St. Stephen's College , Delhi, (1975-80) ,for some time, Presidents of both Pakistan ( Gen Zia ) and India ( Fakhrudin Ali Ahmad ) were ex-students of our college.
We need to rethink South Asia and make it a cradle of peace and development. Whatever creed or beliefs we have, we need to stop teaching hate to our kids…
perfect utopia, lovely idea, but wishful thinking. Given current affairs on the 2 countries, peace and understanding is at least 100 years of distant reality away, probably even further
Comeon Shekhar Ji.. look at Pak now. If he left a damn lasting so called legacy why is his country so backward now? Indian leaders on the contrary were poised and calm and lifted up the country.
Hallmark of a leftist journalist in India. He will say that Jinnah and his vision for Pakistan was actually "secular", that Pakistan later lost its way. Its laughable. The rest of the episode on General Zia is spot on though. Shekhar Sir's personal anecdotes are second to none. I am surprised though Sir that you never discussed Shinzo Abe's death and his impact on India, Asia and the world in any CTC episode or even in National Interest.
Dear Sir ~ I thank you for your presentation. It provides a clear perspective upon a complicated history across multiple cultures , societies and politics.
Gupta ji doing what gupta ji does best...! love and respect from Pakistan... the worst legacy zia left us with is the power he passed on to the bloody mullah's who are so damn powerful now and blackmail every aspect of the government...! just imagine even the generals are getting fed up of this power but cant do jack shit about it... that's the true legacy of Zia...!
You have not explained the root cause behind why Pakistan from a liberal and moderately Islamic country took a turn for hard Islamism after 1971. Pakistan turned to Islamism not out of choice but pressure from Saudi Arabia. Pakistan became bankrupt after the crushing defeat in 1971 and lost East Pakistan from where Pakistan used to get 70% of its foreign exchange and was almost 50% of Pakistan's GDP. Pakistan with its huge military could in no way fund its budget after separation of East Pakistan. This is when they turned to the Saudis to bail them out. The Saudis agreed to help them on the condition that Pakistan became a real Islamic country. This started the process of Islamization of Pakistan. 1978 civil war in Afghanistan only helped this process further setting Pakistan on a course 180 degrees different from what Jinnah had envisaged. Pakistan's economic stability was ensured by massive aid from USA and Saudi Arabia. With the exit of USSR from Afghanistan and collapse of the Soviet Union USA started tightening the screws on Pakistan from the 1990s. This is when the economic woes of Pakistan started which was kept afloat with aid from USA and Saudi Arabia not because of its inherent strengths. Sept 11, gave another brief respite to Pakistan but now with complete withdrawal of USA from Afghanistan Pakistan is back to square one. Now even the Saudis are reluctant to fund Pakistan generously as their own economy dependent on petro dollars is in decline. In a nutshell, without the crutches of Saudi Arabia and America, Pakistan cannot go far as a nation. It simply doesn't have the resources to fund its government a trap which is also applicable to Afghanistan making these multi ethnic countries highly unstable.
It is just not humanly possible that Iskander Mirza was the great grandson of the notorious Mir Jafar. While Mr Mirza was born in 1899, Mir Jafar was born in 1691 i. e. he was already 66 years old when the battle of Plassey was fought in 1757!! Fully 208 years separated thw years of birth. It is not possible that only 3 generations extended to all of these years.
Interesting commentary. I was growing up in Pakistan as a teenager in the 80's. My mom, her uncle and some family friends were in Zia's government. My other extended family members were in Bhutto's and in Muslim League. No matter who was in power, the family always had someone up there. I heard of lot of things as a kid I probably should not have heard. India wasn't so innocent either in terrorism. Much before 1990 in Kashmir, 1993 and so on, India had done plenty itself. I got a few jokes about Zia my mom told us and some other things I should have never known but do and they shall remain quiet. I will only mention this after being away from the sub-continent for over 32 years. If you think Zia's deeds have done all the damage and effects of it are still being felt which I in general tend to agree with for the most part, what do you think BJP and specially Modi's India is going to be doing to secular India? I mean the revisionist history being done is actually worse than what was done by Zia in Pakistan. Plenty of western history scholars as well as DNA experts who have pioneered ancient DNA for the purpose of tracking migrations of people etc. have debunked so many crap theories and re-written history of Mughals for instance or Yamnaya people who brought in Vedic ideas to the Harappan civilization have been shown now with DNA evidence and yet in modern Indian scholarship in these references its been a joke and changed to suit whatever is needed for political and religious sentiment purposes. How is that any better than Zia? I personally think it might be worse but we have to wait a couple of decades to see that. Hope I am wrong.
The opposition force to making state as Hindu as state religion is great. I don't see that is happening in India. India is not worried about Hindus Rising but scared of Wahabism and Salafi movement, Which again gives rise to Hinduism national tendency. If Wahabism and Salafi movement curtailed, Hindu rising as state religion can be curtailed as well. But looking after Islamists action, I don't see that is happening
You do have a point. At this stage, we can't really say for certain if BJPs influence will end up having the same effect on India (I hope it doesn't). But there is a key difference here. The spark of islamism may have been started by a Pakistani regime. But controlling it or putting it to an end was never in Pakistan's hand from the get go. There were too many "external" parties' interests involved. The j!hadis were "soft-power" for Saudis, "foot-soldiers" for Americans against Soviets. After USSR broke up, it was also in the interest of central asian countries to funnel all radicals to Afpak as the new rulers did not want trouble with j!haids in their own homes. It was in Iran's interests to counter-radicalize newer groups in response to Saudi backed radicalization. Finally, It was in Pakistan's interests too to keep radicalization going to get an upper hand in Kashmir. In modern times, it is also in Turkeys interests to keep Pakistanis radicalized. With the Taliban takeover, even India has found interests in keeping Pak as radicalized as possible on Afghan border to keep trouble away from Kashmir. With Hindutva, everything is internal. Which makes it significantly less dangerous and more controllable (I hope I'm proven correct). The Muslims of subcontinent on the other hand have never been independent. They were controlled from outside during Ghaznavid era, they're controlled from outside even today. Lack of Independence is the first problem they need to solve.
The real lesson for us is that Modi is doing the same to India today by hindutvisation with seeding a rot in the economy, society, democracy and institutions
As Indians we shouldn't be so obsessed with Pakistan, Zia ul haq was a byproduct of the cold war, fall of Soviet union and loss of rajiv gandhi made a mess of our internal security
Shekhar ji you missed Zia’s role in supporting Khalistani movement with men, materiel, motivation, training and refuge which instigated violence and terror attacks across the borders into India’s Punjab and elsewhere and in reaction what all happened in 80’s and 90’s in India.
All the prominent Pakistanis like Jinnah, Zia, Musharraf were born in India and they hated India and wanted to harm India. Who should we blame then India or Pakistan? On a serious note though, we should study this very carefully and evaluate political leaders like them who are still in India.
The credit for the creation of Bangladesh should go to the Indian armed forces not Indira Gandhi sure she gave the go ahead but it was the armed forces who made it happened
The credit goes to our Bangladeshi guerilla freedom fighters... India or gandhi is irrelevant to us! Keep Bangladesh out of this India/Pakistan cat & Mouse fight.
@@totensrabon1885 are you seriously this ungrateful for india's help in freeing Bangladesh. Where did your guerrilla freedom fighters get their training supplies from? I don't know what is taught in Bangladesh's history books but get real with yourself buddy. Your people were getting slaughtered before india stepped in. Atleast respect the lives of the Indian men who fought to liberate your country.
Military men should never be glorified beyond their sacrifeses, it’s always the politicians who win over military men, because politicians mindset is just the “if and but” conditions, they do not waste their time in searching for proofs, where are military men are only specialised in altitude, temperature, phisiography and of course “ Go capture the Hill”.
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DON'T WASTE YOUR MONEY ON HINDUPHOBIC LEFTWING TERRORISTS NEWSPAPER
Both zias
One in Bd another in Pak
St ggh to DD DDD ddddxd XSt dXD St dd5 ft 6tdXxDaddy dD funnyd 6û66xyXxxdxdXxddx6y5 DD Xx funny SST
Pppppppppppp pppp my pppppppppppppppp pp 0 ppp0pp00000p pp pp pp plum PPP pppp pp PPP po po pppp ppp0p0ppppppppppppp pp 0p PPP pppppppp
you are godi media
"Partyless democracy is like non-alcoholic beer" 😂. Good god, Shekhar ji. Gimme 20k and I'll come work for you.
He is a man of culture✌️😂😂
Having tried non-alcoholic despite not liking beer at all. I'd rather have alcoholic beer with tht bitter taste.
I will work free…… but beer will be on SG sir, not non alcoholic one at that….
Wait 20k a month or year. And rupee's? Dollars? Pounds?
@@LonDanDoc Twenty thousand camels. One time payment.
Why the obsession with Zia? Interesting, how people like to find one person/event to lay the blame upon. Pakistan was rotten long before Zia. Pakistan was never a country. It was a "jaagir" for Muslim elites who feared economic/political alienation in a "secular" India. Jinnah was merely a broker. Once religious "high" was over, these elites pinned the obsession of people on Kashmir and India. It was none other than the "secular" Bhutto who declared the "thousand years war" against India which was later shaped into "Bleed India by thousand cuts" by Zia. So when people blame Zia for fundamentalism, they are wrong. Pakistan was born out of fundamentalism.
very gd observation... 👍
This.
He is trying very hard to get in good books of LeLi gang, this is my observation cause he was fairly neutral untill 2017 but something happened in '19 which seems making him rally towards LeLi...
Very well put.
After I finish watching CTC, I always make sure I scroll down to read your astute observations on various topics...I think you should write opinion pieces in the Print
Keep them comments coming
I am originally from Afghanistan but live in USA . I really appreciate your analysis. That was probably one of the major events of the 20th century after world war 1 and 2.
The Grand Indus Army owns, occupies and ru(i)ns Pakistan enforcing Britain's messianic ideology in the region of everlasting hostility towards Russia (The Great Game) for a fistful of $$$ and a few $$$ more. India, Afghanistan, Central Asia, China and Russia should form a strategic alliance to liberate the Indus Valley from British & US influence and then aim for Eurasian Integration to overtake the US as the most powerful economic, military and political power in the world. th-cam.com/video/Bwvl5gGrmdA/w-d-xo.html
If not Zia there would have been some other person to fill his shoes. The mentality he represented was always there, which is quite evident from that country's history before Zia (1947-1977). In 1971 they killed 3 million Bengalis, attacked India several times. They also had already used their non state actors during 1947 and 65 wars. They had already banned Ahmadiya sect. I also don't agree with you on Jinnah. He said different things to different people on different occasions. What actually matters is not his words but his actions.
Zia impacted the Indian librandus only, no one else in india.
3 million Bengalis !!!
Correct CIA might have brought some other stooge.
Under Zia rule Pakistan lost siachin glacier to indian army in 1984 and Benazir even offered her bangles to Zia and Pakistan army for humiliated defeat in siachin
This episode has completely misplaced timing and priority. We have discussed Zia many times in prior episodes. We could have discussed Shinzo Abe's death and it's impact on certain policies that Japanese government may take, rupee crisis and why we are not exporting as much as we aim for, Sri Lanka's govt collapse and what can be a permanent solution to its financial crisis etc etc.
Aggred ,Shinzo abe!!!,
Andh bhakt's comment .
Buddy it is apt and much needed for Indian youngsters because
YOGI LIKELY TO FOLLOW IN SAME PATH working with Democrats of USA
BUT WITH WAY WORSE CONSEQUENCES FOR INDIA , ASIA AND THE WORLD
Kamala will want to use Yogi against China Like Carter used Zia against USSR, BUT this war won't be just minor but likely to lead to nuclear apocalyptic ww3
@@kishoremandyam8245 bro let him became prime minister first. you are making so much assumptions
@@RahulSharma-jm9ir just like Bhutto had picked Zia over many seniors Modi / Rss will pick Yogi same way
That also will be similar to Zia story
Indira Gandhi. She is THE WOMAN!! May she rest in peace. As a Bangladeshi i absolutely loved that woman. She in her saree did all the globe trotting to help form Bangladesh. Many lives were saved by her due to her actions. Far far far more important than Zia ul Haq.!!!
I agree with you 100%
Angoke could have broken Pakistan.
Its the army which did job
India has great institutions.
Credit can't be given to one man
@@raghunandan9290 it was a tactical decision by Indira Gandhi with army chief sam manekshaw. it's either this or huge cost rehabilitating the refugees
One important thing which I guess should be highlighted is that he used the time during soviet war very smartly by building nuclear weapons technology very quickly, he knew that right now americans need him to defeat soviets so he used this opportunity and made quick progress to build nuclear weapons and Americans remained mum in this time period.
he was anti-islamic
net result is he ruined pakistan forever by injecting radicalisation🤣🤣🤣
Education, economic prosperity, innovation, communal harmony, freedom for citizens etc. make the country progress fast. Such a country becomes useful for rest of the world.
In case any of these are absent and if such a country has just nuclear weapons, then such a country becomes a pure headache for the world.
Such countries will be gradually destroyed by rest of the world by using the leaders of the country itself.
Example - North Korea, Pakistan, Russia.
Nuke program was established and started by ZA Bhutto long before Manhoos Zia took over. That was a major reasons for Bhutto hanging and murder by ZIA. Bhutto had built the Lab and left at least 300 million dollars cash, Zia had no choice but to continue. He destroyed Pakistan
Zia looks like a Bollywood villain
Exactly.
He's a sepoy Third Class.
villian is far better.. he was a back-stabber who won trust of bhutto, then bhutto promoted him and lastly he kyld that same man bhutto with fake charges.. all within 3 years.. pak history is full of traitors like this.. Iskander mirza, the great-grandson of mirzafar, also betrayed gulam mohammad to get presidency, mirza dismissed gulam while gulam set him as acting governor before going to hospital for treatment.. most mullahs are like this.. never trust any of them
It's contradictory to state that Zia "Islamized" Pakistan; The very premise of Pakistan was political Islam; All Zia might have done is to instutionalize that!
Pakistan was created just after the start of the Cold War as a military base for Britain and its allies to continue The Great Game against Russia.
Exactly!
Same with Bangladesh? They’re pretty secular bro….please read jinnahs speeches before proclaiming your verdicts, ugh
@@zaina5569 speeches don't count boy, actions do! We know what was the feelings of jinnah for Hindus, with him announcing "direct action"!
Hindus have shrunk from 14%to 8% in Bangladesh ! Too much for secularism ya!
I’m Pakistani and I don’t understand why some Indians will push this narrative Jinnah wanted a secular state. Jinnah wanted political Islam, he just didn’t live long enough to write the constitution.
Gen Zia ul Haq (mard e mujhahid) was the person who dug the grave of Pakistan. And he did his work quiet efficiently, I must say.
And from that grave Pakistan will rise again.
@@srinivasrao941 asli id se aa abdul.
@@srinivasrao941 who cares anyway
Thanks! Keep up the good work shekarji especially cut the clutter and national interest
Hi, thanks for you feedback and supporting our channel.
Nah, I have to disagree with you on this one. Neither did Nehru, Indira, or Zia had the most lasting impact. It has to be narasimha rao, Nothing comes near to the path he set up for us in 1991, it has led us to where we are now and where we will be in the future.
@ Parth Aurora. Spot on!!
Narasimha rao did all the reforms all because of pressure from IMF and World bank..
yep
He is talking about the entire subcontinent, not just India
@@avishekbhattacharjee812 india became the clear powerhouse in the subcontinent after that
Surprising that SG sir didn’t choose to talk about assassinated ex president ABE … which would have been contemporary topic
What is there to talk about the assassination of Mr Abe ? It is already out
@Mreizrq_Zqhruma I mean pakistan military general who is actually responsible for promoting global terrorism is far more important to me than Abe
Coz,we should know those responsible for creating confusion n caous,even world leaders today who are terrorist in nature Should be brought b4 public
What about those responsible for spoiling Iraq afg in the name of terrorism, just coz you are well equipped ,you can't wage war on innocent people.
Wait n watch what God has his plans for arrogant boasters
Pakistan`s Zia ul-Haq was stationed in Jordan from 1967 to 1970 as a Brigadier.Pakistani and Jordanian army massacred twenty-five thousand Palestinians in Jordan`s refugee camp when they rioted because of poor living conditions.The dreadful event is known as "Black September"
Pakistan is not a country it's a mindset ~ JSD
Agree, but mindsets are bound to change.
@@srinivasrao941 islam will always be within pakistan
This is incredible. Thanks for taking time to put this out for us.
Basic cause of all the miseries in the world today is traceable to Islam. The day Islam was born is the most unfortunate day in the history of the mankind. Why blame Zias, Aurangzeb, khalji, Ghazni and tughlaqs? Islam sanctified violence.
Hinduism is the most violent religion, not Islam, the issue is that Islam did not define “Jihad”.
Not necessarily….
Monkey worshippers 🤣
That's a sad mentality to have really
SG sir. Thank you very much for the fantastic history explainer. Also may I suggest Sri Lanka protests as a topic for any upcoming CTC episode. Thank you sir.
Hi Sunil, thanks for writing in with your valuable feedback.
Dear Shekhar sa'ab
Please make CTC on internal politics of China, prospects of Mr Xi's third term, also please convey the message how powerful/weak is China currently in backdrop of Evergrande/economic slowdown/taming of business tycoons etc.
Is anti-Xi coalition is cropping up?
Yours faithfully
Watching CTC since 2019
Nobody knows what is happening in China. Not even the best China watchers in West or even many Chinese. SG might not be in a position to do this analysis.
@@ravindra7791 Exactly, how is SG supposed to have that information? I’m not sure anyone outside China 🇨🇳 has that information.
Superb analysis, Shekar Ji, I re-learned this conversion to fundamentalist Islamism, today, through your analysis. Salute you, Sir.
❤ Love to ShekarGupta for his uncanny but truly a Educative for sure.. the profession of a
Dedicated Journalists
Islam in Pakistan has produced strange and contradictory characters . Bhutto , a Democrat sow the seeds of islamization, which was further nurtured by a still peculiar character in uniform , Zia-Ul-Haque ,who turned his country into a modern global jihadi centre. So effective, it is the Bhutto ,who is the father and grand-master of jihadi outfits with Zia as his disciple. But at the centte of it all is the Islam as the driving for for both of them.
2). Like Mughals, succession has never been peaceful in Pakistan since its birth. In this the Pakistanis are emulating mughals, if not in culture.
Mughals built this subcontinent & most of them were secular to the core... You probably blinded by your hateful Hindutva ideology, but that Doesn't change the history.
West bengal political succession has a similar story 🤔🧐?
Maybe “Allah” will send another dictator to set things right.
Mughals would spit on Pakistan, and I say this as a Sikh.
Being a Pakistani, I appreciate your in-depth knowledge about Pakistan and giving your time to topics related to Pakistan
Although at time you become unnecessarily patriotic when talking about Pakistan but it’s completely natural
Overall I appreciate your Analysis...
At least "unnecessarily patriotic" people have forex reserves of 590 billion dollars not like bankrupt "unnecessarily r@dical" g-hadists who don't have money to import tea
@@guurindersinghsfather1068
Your comment is a true example of unnecessary patriotism (in your case it is fake hyper nationalism)
Indians are not realizing that in the world India has lost its soft power. It’s dangerous for the fabric of secular India.
Basic moral of the story was, the day Pakistan was made Pakistani wanted to loot its money, not a single good person ruled their and nobody thought they need to work on “ law” social structure education health or science… end result is in 2022 Pakistan is on edge of bankruptcy
So we can define Pakistan as from “1947 to 2022” that’s life story of a land made on the name of islam, land got destroyed on the name of islam
Basically allah k liye paida huye , allah allah krte mar gye .. bich bich main bas aas pados ko dukhi kia …
@@jaspeeetkaur5608 Kind of true. But don't be overjoyed. India's debt is USD 620 billion versus 122 billion for Pakistan. Per Capita each Indian owes 4 times that of Pakistan. Foreign currency reserves and issues that Pakistan has can be solved. Indian debt to GDP has been heading the wrong way and has been under Modi but a level of misdirection solves many problems in politics. Old politician trick.
@@abidfarooqui-sla3301 Han aur bhok le, hum bhik ni mangte imf se lodu
Overdose of Pakistan. There are 200 other countries and half a dozen neighbors.
This obsession with Pakistan is now getting little irritating. Is it the punjabi obsession? Same thing that killed Pakistan.
Maybe a discussion on Tamilnadu politics and their breakaway tendencies would be interesting or anything else.
It’s fascinating……continue SG sir, loved it……..btw….SG is not a Punjabi……..
"That's just like your opinion, man" (Said Lebowski).
Pakistan is one of the most bizarre & interesting countries. Also a nuclear armed neighbour with common history. You can never have enough of Pakistan, even if you take only entertainment.
Because there are lessons to learn from Pakistan.
SG is very right . Tamil Nadu is becoming another Bengal, an useless state
Britain's and NATO's obsession with the Great Game, everlasting hostility towards Russia, makes the Grand Indus Army that owns, occupies and ru(i)ns Pakistan, important.
I have taken the subscription today and feels great to watch this CtC as a member, first. Guys do take the print's subscription to support unbiased, uninfluenced journalsim.
I'm a subscriber too but don't think all print members are neutral, I took subscription for Shekhar ji, DK , NP but completely ignore Sanghvi and Jyothi who openly show bias.
they dont claim to be unbiased. They claim to be honest and fair, there is a difference that, a person who watches Indian television media cannot understand. Nobody can be unbiased, everyone has an ideology, and even Judges are not unbiased. People have to understand the difference between blatant propaganda and truth.
Shekhar is good. Closest to an unbiased view. But Print is like other MSM.
@@rvnrr The print is shekhar and Shekhar is the print
Mr Gupta, pls archive your cut the clutters, they are a goldmine. We will need this for the future.
Save it to playlists.
Even Government of India, does not give this much focus, attention to Pakistan and Pakistani politics, that Shekar Gupta (CTC) does.
lol read some books my guy
Because Pakistan is our internal issue.
Han tereko jaise bahut pata hai, chodu
RAW would have a bunch scholars on every country of interest.
SG is patron of Pak like sanjay manjerakar in cricket.
More than Zia's coup, your coup was far more brutal, Coupta ji
I do not find a smiley in this stupid Iphone
I am from Pakistan and I must say that Mr. Shekhar has a great understanding of Pakistani politics. Zia continues to haunt us all.
No he don’t be quite
@@Unknown-or2vu -----he was your soul mate, But he was the worst thing ever happened to Pakistan
"Partyless democracy is like a non-alcoholic beer"😊😊
You are absolutely right.
Thanks
Toronto.
I am not aware of the influence of Gen Zia on India but here in Pakistan the legacy of his impact has been a disastrous and still continue his legacy also included the Sharif brothers who consider him thier political father both of whom are corrupt & involved in Money Laundering
the whole Khalistan project was Zia's gift to India
Very well presented . Vajpayee's quote was most appropriate . Pakistan has been affected most by Zia .
As far his impact on India is concerned, I think it was his policy on Khalistan movement. But I didn’t see any mention of it in your article.
Zia ul Haq Was the One who made truly Islam Religion of Peace into Piece
For themselves & also for rest of the World....
Because Islam has an undefined definition “Jihad”.
This was a very informative presentation, I really enjoy listening to Shekhar's analyses.
He is remembering zia more than Pakistani media.
Pakistan was bound to go in that way. if not Zia ul haq, someone else would have taken them towards extreme Islamist ideology. Just like Afghanistan went back to extremism, paxtanis will also go the same way.
Not until another “ Zia” is sent by Allah, if at all.
Today only Me & A friend both Army Veterans discussed this Chap. Issue is the present generation is unaware how things changed during the period.
That might be an advantage for us.
As usual a good brief on Pakistani politics from Shehkar sb. Loved the way he always add a story to the whole context.
You have provided a real valuable insight into jehadi culture and it is a real threat in Kerala state where from funding is being provided for pan India operation other than may be in Bengal, Assam and J&K.
“Not just to his country, but his nation!” - SG 2
Pakistan called Fatima jinnah an Indian agent this is Pakistan’s legacy
Finally Pakistanis dancing till date of zia tunes 😅😂
Dear Mr. Gupta:
Thank you for the great presentation.
Former Pakistani President and CMLA General Zia -ul - Haque was possibly the most skilled dictator to rule a country.
He worked through the matrix of America-Soviet rivalry, enmity with India, and efforts to entrench his own power very effectively to determine results conducive for him.
For quite some time matters went quite well for him. But, subsequently as is the case with almost all dictators, resentments started coming out like steam from a pressure cooker. Opposition to him was growing within the country, Russians were threating him, and relations with India reflected perpetuation of mistrust laced with surface courtesies.
Perhaps most important was the collective aftermath of paranoia, tyranny, aggressive predilection, and religious extremism in Pakistan.
His death from an unresolved plane crash was above all the aftermath of the social turbulence and orgy in Pakistan. The initiator tragically became its own victim, after causing misery for so many.
As the world struggles with coping economic hardships, political high-handedness, and religious fundamentalism, we in India would have to keep devising methods to manage our relations with Pakistan effectively.
After all, as the illustrious political commentator and editor, Inder Malhotra, once put it, India would have to learn to live with Pakistan as any less fortunate person does with a bad kidney.
General Zia's long stint in power in Pakistan has made the India's relations with Pakistan more prolonged and more challenging.
With Regards,
Ranajoy Sen
Modi will be most important person in India in first 100 years of independence
Yeah some of his policies on internal affair are similar to that of zia-ul-haq
@@neerajkumar-ts6om can you name some. I am keen to know.
Only few would know, you are lucky to be the one amongst.
Very interesting. Shekhar has unmatched political insight.
Sir why you people only talk about pakistan.not our states like South india
Yeah, I would rather like to see a discussion on Swargiya K. Kamaraj or Lokpriya Gopinath Bordoloi
He's a north Indian living in Delhi. Most probably he would be more aware of the history of Pakistan than of either Noth Eastern or Southern India
Because Pakistan is our internal issue.
Jinnah did not imagine it to be a Islamic republic .. joke 😂
There are some common misconceptions peddled here by SG.
Jinnah didn't intend Pak to be Islamic state and said so in 1947. However, Jinnah retracted his statement soon after and said in Jan 11 in Karachi Bar Association: "I could not understand a section of people who deliberately wanted to create mischief and made a propaganda that the constitution of Pakistan would not be made on the basis of Shariat.”
Sharia based Constitution cannot be considered Secular.
Pakistan was formed as "Islamic Republic of Pakistan".
If its an islamic republic, then it can never be a secular nation.
Just like Quran, People take what they are good with it.
Jinnah made two opposite statements on same points.
Islamist refer to Constitution based on Sharia.
And secular refer to his other speech.
In the conflict, As of now Islamist has won in Pakistan.
I don't see changes in nation for next 20 years.
Salafi and Wahabi movement destroyed South Asia.
The most important personality in this region in our lifetime is former pm Sri PV Narsimha Rao. Nobody can surpass the impact he created by his policy making.
The best PM we ever had.
@@OrangePumpkin150 no way devgora was and is till date the best Indian PM
I live in Pakistan, and sometimes I wonder will Pakistan Really Collapse just because of Economy, The answer is no. Why? Pakistan is never dependent on economy, The economy is for ruling elites to make more reserves, get luxury items, smuggle goods to AFG and other central states. There is no check and balance, Otherwise we see cheapest oil at some places as well, its just that is from Banned neighbors and is used by people to get extra benefit ( you know what I mean ). We see lots of $$ being traded by people in private sector, which is even more than people can imagine.
Moral of story: Whenever Pakistan collapses it wont be because of economy and it never was an economy issue😅. It will be because of its ruling Elite.
ziaism is a lesson for India too. No matter what religion and state should be separated at any cost
People here commenting that Pakistan was always a fundamentalist country should do some reading of subcontinental politics. While Pakistan was envisioned as a motherland for subcontinental Muslims, the founding fathers could hardly be called fundamentalists. In fact, early Pakistani leaders were very much from the same fabric as the early Indian leaders. The difference is that early Indian leaders did a good job of keeping the military professional, building fairly robust democratic institutions and avoiding fundamentalist blowback. Pakistan could not do that. And over time, the failure of the 'system' allowed the regression to fundamentalism.
And those saying the anti-India POV in Pakistan stems from Islamic fundamentalism - I'd argue that by the same definition, the Afghan population (and the Middle East too) could also be construed as fundamentalists. Why isn't the anti-India sentiment as strong there as it is in Pakistan? Nepal is not an Islamic country, why is the anti-India sentiment so strong there? We must acknowledge that the Indo-Pak hostility has a historical/geopolitical/cultural aspect to it too. Calling Pakistan "rotten from the start" is an excuse to ignore the nuances of human character and history.
What a superb analysis Shekhar Sir!! 👏
Regarding Zia ul-Haq: Perhaps 'most consequential' not 'most important.'
You are to obsessed with Pakistan...
There are many important topics within India and in geopolitics (except pakistan) as well...
Enough of this jokistaan
The Great Game will spill over into India because of NATO warmongering.
Jokistan is our Internalistan.
How we can learn about religious fundamentalism if don't discuss the culprit.
Excellent Excellent episode... i watch cut d clutter before going to sleep...extremely satisfied vd d knowledge gained...
Gupta ji should write a book on his journalist career experience
Thanks SG, for a gr8 analysis!! What a world of difference from the other channels of Lallu n Panju, Nation wants to know, No spin, Big Debate etc
Thank you, great history lesson put in context, this is the first time these things make sense to me.
Hi,
Glad it was helpful! Thank you for your contribution to our channel.
Did Zia Islamise Pakistan mind or reflect that mind ? Elites may have not been islamised but masses were always close to Zias ideology
What a handsome fellow, fine facial hair and uniform to match? Pity his God couldn't protect him in the end 😂😂
Every politician from Pakistan is a character. Times have changed now,
Ab, IMF Nachayega, US chakrayega aur China Satayega.
Sad that this Nation couldn’t give anything to the world except terror and destruction. Now its self destroying.
Zia has in a sense brought Pakistan to its knees over time. Thank you for a nice video
Art of Story Telling!!! SG sir, superb!!
Very eyeopening episode, Shekharji. Great anecdotes too.
Hi, glad for your response.
Had Pakistan been a part of INDIA. Hindus would be working and Pakistanis enjoying free rations and medical facility without working and attacking Hindus as well
When I was in college,( St. Stephen's College , Delhi, (1975-80) ,for some time, Presidents of both Pakistan ( Gen Zia ) and India ( Fakhrudin Ali Ahmad ) were ex-students of our college.
Seems Zia was the living manifestation of Shekharji’s quote “No one can stop bad idea whose time has come”
We need to rethink South Asia and make it a cradle of peace and development. Whatever creed or beliefs we have, we need to stop teaching hate to our kids…
Yess but Truly The Roots of Jihad , using Violence As Weapon Is Deep Rooted & it is difficult For the world To take over it.
Yes, because Love is the only Truth.
Practically Impossible as long as Islam is prominent. Need ethnic cleansing for greater peace.
Sure
th-cam.com/play/PL4t7MovhTCwUxOs7RpIYNTr3AbU978bu2.html
perfect utopia, lovely idea, but wishful thinking. Given current affairs on the 2 countries, peace and understanding is at least 100 years of distant reality away, probably even further
Comeon Shekhar Ji.. look at Pak now. If he left a damn lasting so called legacy why is his country so backward now? Indian leaders on the contrary were poised and calm and lifted up the country.
I so remember Zia changed the laws that a woman's testimony on court was valued at half that of a man's testimony
VP Singh also had an enduring impact given his brief tenure. Caste politics.
Hallmark of a leftist journalist in India. He will say that Jinnah and his vision for Pakistan was actually "secular", that Pakistan later lost its way. Its laughable. The rest of the episode on General Zia is spot on though. Shekhar Sir's personal anecdotes are second to none. I am surprised though Sir that you never discussed Shinzo Abe's death and his impact on India, Asia and the world in any CTC episode or even in National Interest.
You can see his passion for Zia and Pak in his eyes.He simply cherishes them.
You can see his passion for Zia and Pak in his eyes.He simply cherishes them.
Remember zia was not a radical islamists he was just a islamist
Dear Sir ~
I thank you for your presentation. It provides a clear perspective upon a complicated history across multiple cultures , societies and politics.
Gupta ji doing what gupta ji does best...! love and respect from Pakistan... the worst legacy zia left us with is the power he passed on to the bloody mullah's who are so damn powerful now and blackmail every aspect of the government...! just imagine even the generals are getting fed up of this power but cant do jack shit about it... that's the true legacy of Zia...!
MJ Akbar has time and again argued that Islamization began under Ayub Khan.
Gupta Ji you are a rockstar! Keep up the good work 👍🏼
SG sir There are many topics in India to cover 🙃🙏
But Pakistan is our internal issue.
@@srinivasrao941 lol
@@srinivasrao941 nice
Fabulous recapitulation & analysis! 👍
Am I the only one who thinks Yahya Khan looks like brezhnev??😂😂
I’ve just googled but who cares.
You have not explained the root cause behind why Pakistan from a liberal and moderately Islamic country took a turn for hard Islamism after 1971.
Pakistan turned to Islamism not out of choice but pressure from Saudi Arabia. Pakistan became bankrupt after the crushing defeat in 1971 and lost East Pakistan from where Pakistan used to get 70% of its foreign exchange and was almost 50% of Pakistan's GDP.
Pakistan with its huge military could in no way fund its budget after separation of East Pakistan.
This is when they turned to the Saudis to bail them out.
The Saudis agreed to help them on the condition that Pakistan became a real Islamic country.
This started the process of Islamization of Pakistan.
1978 civil war in Afghanistan only helped this process further setting Pakistan on a course 180 degrees different from what Jinnah had envisaged.
Pakistan's economic stability was ensured by massive aid from USA and Saudi Arabia.
With the exit of USSR from Afghanistan and collapse of the Soviet Union USA started tightening the screws on Pakistan from the 1990s. This is when the economic woes of Pakistan started which was kept afloat with aid from USA and Saudi Arabia not because of its inherent strengths.
Sept 11, gave another brief respite to Pakistan but now with complete withdrawal of USA from Afghanistan Pakistan is back to square one. Now even the Saudis are reluctant to fund Pakistan generously as their own economy dependent on petro dollars is in decline.
In a nutshell, without the crutches of Saudi Arabia and America, Pakistan cannot go far as a nation. It simply doesn't have the resources to fund its government a trap which is also applicable to Afghanistan making these multi ethnic countries highly unstable.
It is just not humanly possible that Iskander Mirza was the great grandson of the notorious Mir Jafar. While Mr Mirza was born in 1899, Mir Jafar was born in 1691 i. e. he was already 66 years old when the battle of Plassey was fought in 1757!! Fully 208 years separated thw years of birth. It is not possible that only 3 generations extended to all of these years.
Iskander Mirza was the great great great great grandson of Mir Jafar.... SG simplified it to fit YT standards... :-)
Zia impacted the Indian librandus only, no one else.
Interesting commentary. I was growing up in Pakistan as a teenager in the 80's. My mom, her uncle and some family friends were in Zia's government. My other extended family members were in Bhutto's and in Muslim League. No matter who was in power, the family always had someone up there. I heard of lot of things as a kid I probably should not have heard. India wasn't so innocent either in terrorism. Much before 1990 in Kashmir, 1993 and so on, India had done plenty itself. I got a few jokes about Zia my mom told us and some other things I should have never known but do and they shall remain quiet.
I will only mention this after being away from the sub-continent for over 32 years. If you think Zia's deeds have done all the damage and effects of it are still being felt which I in general tend to agree with for the most part, what do you think BJP and specially Modi's India is going to be doing to secular India? I mean the revisionist history being done is actually worse than what was done by Zia in Pakistan. Plenty of western history scholars as well as DNA experts who have pioneered ancient DNA for the purpose of tracking migrations of people etc. have debunked so many crap theories and re-written history of Mughals for instance or Yamnaya people who brought in Vedic ideas to the Harappan civilization have been shown now with DNA evidence and yet in modern Indian scholarship in these references its been a joke and changed to suit whatever is needed for political and religious sentiment purposes. How is that any better than Zia? I personally think it might be worse but we have to wait a couple of decades to see that. Hope I am wrong.
Your facts about India are baseless.
The opposition force to making state as Hindu as state religion is great.
I don't see that is happening in India. India is not worried about Hindus Rising but scared of Wahabism and Salafi movement, Which again gives rise to Hinduism national tendency.
If Wahabism and Salafi movement curtailed, Hindu rising as state religion can be curtailed as well.
But looking after Islamists action, I don't see that is happening
You do have a point. At this stage, we can't really say for certain if BJPs influence will end up having the same effect on India (I hope it doesn't). But there is a key difference here. The spark of islamism may have been started by a Pakistani regime. But controlling it or putting it to an end was never in Pakistan's hand from the get go. There were too many "external" parties' interests involved. The j!hadis were "soft-power" for Saudis, "foot-soldiers" for Americans against Soviets. After USSR broke up, it was also in the interest of central asian countries to funnel all radicals to Afpak as the new rulers did not want trouble with j!haids in their own homes. It was in Iran's interests to counter-radicalize newer groups in response to Saudi backed radicalization. Finally, It was in Pakistan's interests too to keep radicalization going to get an upper hand in Kashmir. In modern times, it is also in Turkeys interests to keep Pakistanis radicalized. With the Taliban takeover, even India has found interests in keeping Pak as radicalized as possible on Afghan border to keep trouble away from Kashmir.
With Hindutva, everything is internal. Which makes it significantly less dangerous and more controllable (I hope I'm proven correct). The Muslims of subcontinent on the other hand have never been independent. They were controlled from outside during Ghaznavid era, they're controlled from outside even today. Lack of Independence is the first problem they need to solve.
@@kkc3010 Yeah I don't think so
@@chandrakanthotkar7262 That's the same line of thinking RSS used in its books well before 1947. If you are still there today then good luck to India
We should discuss more on china only barrier is
Mandarin
No, Pakistan is our internal issue and until it is resolved we cannot get away from it.
The real lesson for us is that Modi is doing the same to India today by hindutvisation with seeding a rot in the economy, society, democracy and institutions
I felt that is the subtle message from SG himself through this topic today.
India is big enough to take everything in its strides.
As Indians we shouldn't be so obsessed with Pakistan, Zia ul haq was a byproduct of the cold war, fall of Soviet union and loss of rajiv gandhi made a mess of our internal security
Shekhar ji you missed Zia’s role in supporting Khalistani movement with men, materiel, motivation, training and refuge which instigated violence and terror attacks across the borders into India’s Punjab and elsewhere and in reaction what all happened in 80’s and 90’s in India.
Great perspective thank you 🔥🙏
All the prominent Pakistanis like Jinnah, Zia, Musharraf were born in India and they hated India and wanted to harm India. Who should we blame then India or Pakistan? On a serious note though, we should study this very carefully and evaluate political leaders like them who are still in India.
You mean undivided Ind right?
@@farazsomjee yes
SG you forgot to mention that Imran Khan also thinks that he is sent by Allah to rule Pakistan for rest of his life.
That's like saying Stalin had the greatest impact on Russia. Or Mao had the greatest impact on China. Or Hitler ...Pol Pot...
Yeah, it is like saying that. Exactly. What is wrong
Your analysis is great.
I love your stories. I think you're really good at it.
The credit for the creation of Bangladesh should go to the Indian armed forces not Indira Gandhi sure she gave the go ahead but it was the armed forces who made it happened
The credit goes to our Bangladeshi guerilla freedom fighters... India or gandhi is irrelevant to us! Keep Bangladesh out of this India/Pakistan cat & Mouse fight.
@@totensrabon1885 are you seriously this ungrateful for india's help in freeing Bangladesh. Where did your guerrilla freedom fighters get their training supplies from? I don't know what is taught in Bangladesh's history books but get real with yourself buddy. Your people were getting slaughtered before india stepped in. Atleast respect the lives of the Indian men who fought to liberate your country.
RAW
Military men should never be glorified beyond their sacrifeses, it’s always the politicians who win over military men, because politicians mindset is just the “if and but” conditions, they do not waste their time in searching for proofs, where are military men are only specialised in altitude, temperature, phisiography and of course “ Go capture the Hill”.