It's honestly fun going back and Re listening to these videos 8+ years later when you have much more wisdom and are able to come at this with a fresh perspective plus you understand things a lot better
My thoughts exactly. I’ve been listening to the earth babe audiobooks and it’s cool knowing so much about him and what he’s about. If you haven’t read/listened to banes books I HIGHLY recommend it
APOLOGIES IN ADVANCE FOR THE NOVEL I'M ABOUT TO WRITE HERE, BUT THIS NEEDS TO BE SAID: I appreciate the case being made for General Hoth. But not against a character of Bane's stature. Although I fully recognize that on the sole occasion that I used Bane in a vs. video he lost the round to Mace Windu (a controversial verdict that still stirs up arguments to this day) I really have to speak on his behalf here. I was FULLY onboard with the logic you presented in his bout with Darth Krayt even if I felt the contest could have gone either way in the end. This time I just don't know what to make of your argument. The point you make about the number of serious lightsaber duels that Bane was involved in being countable on only one hand, whereas Hoth had dozens if not hundreds of skirmishes is misleading I think. Although I don't believe you were being purposely misleading I just want to point this out. On the surface you do have a point. But then of course we need to consider the caliber of fighters that both were facing. If the greatest duelist has the highest kill count, then someone like Wolf Sazen should be as legendary as Mace Windu or Exar Kun. And we both know that Wolf Sazen was far from the greatest duelist the galaxy has ever produced. But he killed an insane amount of Sith. The explanation for this? They were weak and in Bane's eyes would never have been worthy of being called Sith. Krayt may have had legions at his command, but few were actually exceptionally powerful and skilled. This was also the case during Kaan and Hoth's time. Something which was central to the story and one of the reasons Bane set out to destroy the Brotherhood in the first place. Sure there were a few powerhouses out there on either side of the conflict between the Army of Light and the Brotherhood of Darkness. But one Sith is not equal to another. Hoth was facing Sith at around or below someone like Sirak's level, and common mercs and foot-soldiers more often than not. I mean, even Githany (with whom I have never been particularly impressed) was one of the more credible threats under Kaan's command. As far as I know, Hoth never did combat with Kas'im nor Kaan, nor even Kopecz or Qordis. And they were pretty much the cream of the crop at the time for the Sith and each one weaker than Bane. Anybody Hoth faced would have to have been beneath Kasi'm's level of skill as Kaan recognized the Blademaster as the greatest warrior in the brotherhood. If Bane could force the greatest Sith Blademaster of the era to pull out his last maneuver out of desperation, he could definitely stand against Lord Hoth and in my view be counted on to push him to his limits. The only Jedi I could even entertain the idea of defeating Darth Bane in a pure lightsaber contest from that time would be Raskta Lsu of course. Her accolades as far as swordsmanship (not tactics or leadership ability) were more highly venerated by Farfalla, a decorated and credible veteran of many of the same battles than Hoth's were. I think it's an assumption to place Hoth in league with the likes of Lsu or Kas'im given we never really watched him fight anybody notable. But even if Lsu pressured Bane to the point that he found himself on the losing end of a lightsaber fight (we're talking a hypothetical where he would not have his armor and she would not have Battle Meditation) he would be able to overcome her with a demonstration of Force power. The difference between Bane and Raskta, is in my view comparable to the difference between Sidious and Mace. Though the gap between depth in the Force is far greater in the former case, my point remains the same. Moving on. Now, then there's the point about Bane being weak against dual blades. That's not really important for me to try to debunk because Hoth's not going to be using them. But at the same time I don't agree with listing that as a "great" or "crippling" weakness for him. The main reason why is because you seem to be discounting the fact that in each case that he was pitted against the exotic weapons his opponents were the greatest duelists living in the galaxy at the time. Almost anybody would have trouble dealing with an application of dual sabers from the likes of Kas'im and Raskta. But this has little to do with this match. But what you said about Bane's tactical approach and failure to adapt is just blatantly incorrect in my view and seems all too dismissive. It's the point I disagree with most strongly. Perhaps it was just the wording of it, but the way you detailed the very idea behind vs. matches being that we are dropping the fighters into a situation cold where they have no time to make a plan carried a troubling implication. If what you say is true, then no matter who he was matched up against in one of these videos, Bane would be at a disadvantage under your logic because he can't plan out what he's going to do. And then we have to consider the things he's actually managed to pull off when at a disadvantage such as when he's been weakened by poison, found himself unarmed, outnumbered or simply caught at the worst possible time. Like that the fact that on Lehon, BANE was the one ambushed by Kas'im. Who really had time to plan and who had to adapt? In the chamber on Korriban, who had to manipulate the situation on the fly when confronted by Githany, Yevra, Llokay, and Sirak? On Tython, he had his orbalisk armor, so tactics kind of went out the window. But even then, he had to put up with 3 Jedi, one the greatest duelist of her time, 4 lightsabers being wielded offensively against him, and an Ithorian master's battle meditation. And he struck out in all of the Jedi team's vulnerable spots and they had to coordinate perfectly when he forced them on the defensive such as Farfalla having to protect Raskta and Worror when he targeted them in different ways throughout the engagement. And in dynasty his escape from the prison on Doan showed how quickly he can think on his feat at almost every turn. He proved capable of mustering through Cognus' abilities after having had time to process them, and even in defeat his final duel with Zannah showed how proactive and adaptable he was. His final efforts admirable as I think they were just weren't enough to deal with one of the most extreme demonstrations of Sorcery that we have been presented with. However, he did come close to killing her even after being wounded by the tendrils. The point is, this argument about not being adaptable or performing things in text book fashion just doesn't really hold water in Bane's case. You'll forgive me for saying so, but I don't think you could truly level that charge at any duelist of Bane's caliber. Lastly while you did rightly award Bane the edge as a Force Wielder, you placed Hoth in the same league as him with relatively little evidence to back that up. Yes, Hoth had to know what he was doing in order to hold his title as the leader of the Army of Light. But the same could be said for Kaan on the side of the Brotherhood who was thoroughly cowed into submission when Bane stormed in barking orders and more ore less hijacked the war council. Kopecz even noted to Bane's face how unnerving all of the other Sith found him. EVERYONE in the Brotherhood was outclassed by Bane as far as Force potential was concerned. This was the main reason Kopecz so ardently pushed for his admittance to the Academy after his stint in the Gloom Walkers. Hoth never faced anybody with that level of power. And based on what little we know of what Hoth accomplished and what Bane could be observed doing, I think it's safe to say that Bane would likely be able to take this match on that basis alone if it came to it. In short, even if Hoth was Bane's superior as a duelist (a hypothesis I do not agree with at all) Bane would be able to defeat him through use of the Force. Unlike Jedi like Mace Windu or Satele Shan (just to name 2 out of many other candidates), Hoth has not been demonstrated to be as capable when it comes to countering the specific kinds of powers that Bane can bring to bear. This was a video I appreciated in the same way that I regarded Antoine and Callan's team battle with Shaak Ti, Plo Koon, Dooku, and Maul. I like the tribute the to the character of Hoth. I appreciate the case being crafted in his favor. I appreciate the use of such a relatively minor figure in a video like this. I just think you should have used him against somebody else. This is one of those times where I just don't agree with the outcome in the slightest.
Never apologize for a well thought out and reasoned response. I, too, appreciate working in General Hoth, but so little time was spent detailing this characters actual abilities. And without knowing too much about his adversaries, it is impossible to anchor his achievements to do a fair comparison.
Gonna have to agree with Matt on this one. Bane was a lot more capable of improvising than you gave him credit for. I actually plan to eventually do my own take on Yoda vs. Darth Bane. I did not agree with Antoine's verdict.
Lobomaru02 I must agree with Lobomaru and GreyJedi although as others have mentioned Evan your video content is top notch and very enjoyable, I applaud your efforts and hope you continue making good videos like this one. Of course as you said you were expecting some sort of backlash at the end of the video, and to be fair I enjoy hearing well reasoned arguments even if I do disagree with the final outcome.
I just love the little skit at the very end of the video, with Hoth coming in to the Attack on Titan theme, becaise its makes me imagine Lord Hoth with the voice of Shadas from Attack on Titan Abridged. Lord Hoth: WELL SWEET MOTHER TERESA ON THE HOOD OF A MERCEDES BENZ!!!
Wow! I'll bet Bane never thought about taking on Lord Hoth himself while training in the Sith Academy... or after returning from Lehon to Ruusan. This Jedi has quite the reputation on the battlefield. If the outcome of this match would be as you've depicted it, Bane was smart enough not to face Hoth. To have done so with pretty little experience would've been a flirt with suicide. Nice commentary from Reti4. And I so loved the ending! Really funny! Since Hoth has proven himself to be a more-than-competent fighter, how about pitting him against two possible candidates for being his equal: Darth Vader and General Grievous.
I don't think Grievous was on par with Vader, the advantage of four and sometimes six limbs did a lot for him, but he was generally just competent and had a lot of physical enhancements backing up his technique. Vader would be a fitter match imo. If push came to shove beyond dueling Hoth would probably just destroy Grievous with force powers like Windu almost did.
Late once again to the party but the outcome of this match would almost certainly not be what was presented in this video. Hoth is not a character that can realistically be used in the versus format. Too speculative in every major area.
Yeah, pretty much knew where this was going given the amount of time you sent describing Hoth despite the relatively small amount of knowledge we have of him and his abilities compared to Bane. I personally think you made a lot of a assumptions here about Hoth while seemingly playing down Bane so I could not possibly disagree with this verdict more. I agreed 100% with you when it came to Bane vs Krayt, but this one is bizarrely one sided when it really shouldn't be.
You shouldn't tbh, Hoth's a good (if flawed) character (and i highly recommend reading the bane trilogy) but his portrayal as a combatant here is inflated and based more on opinion than anything else.
@@tiredjediknight3110 He did have extensive combat experience against powerful sith opponents, and also succed almost all the way, that does say he was powerful
Nice video :) and even though I disagree with the verdict this video is still incredibly well made and in my opinion is your best video to date. Keep up the good work dude :)
I highly disagree with this. Hoth is no where close to being an equal force user and you just assumed this fight would go without Bane reverting to his force powers Bane wins 10/10
bane's lightning, as powerful as it is, can still be absorbed by Hoth's lightsaber, and would have no merit other than as a distraction. as for bane's telekinesis, it is unclear how much of an effect will it have on hoth. in no sources has hoth been described as weak against telekinesis(at least not to the extent of Kenobi). Hoth is durable enough to tank the damage. to be fair, his force stun would not really work on someone as powerful as bane, but there is nothing bane can do that Hoth has to be weary of. Of course, bane's telekinesis and lightning are powerful, but these are powers Hoth can deal with. bane uses the force purely as a blunt hammer, nothing inventive. while bane is superior in the force to Hoth, it is more like Yoda and Dooku, rather than Yoda and Obi Wan Kenobi. i agree with the verdict.
@@kirillzakharov7336 there is nothing that Bane can do that Hoth has to be wary of.... Even if that was true and it certainly isn’t what can Hoth possibly do that would give him any edge over Bane? This contest has been nonsense from the moment it was conceived, Hoth is a character that is far too lightly featured and far too speculative to even be used in the versus format in any fair manner.
@@analothor I’m sorry but no Hoth’s experience is against the grunts of the Sith forces some of which weren’t even force sensitive and all of which even the force sensitive ones were substantially weaker and less skilled than even the lowliest of the students at the Sith academy bane studied at. Hoth never faced anyone even remotely as skilled a combatant as Bane and he certainly never in his entire life faced anyone as powerful as Bane even at the point in time where Bane engineered the destruction of the brotherhood of darkness let alone later in life when Bane was at the height of his mastery. Objectively there is nothing Hoth has ever done that makes him defeating Bane a likely possibility in the versus format. He doesn’t have an objective edge as a duelist, he absolutely doesn’t have any edge as a force wielder at all, he has no edge in terms of his weaponry or equipment and he has no physical advantage over Bane either. He has nothing he can leverage over Bane that stacks the odds in his favour at all but Bane by contrast does. That’s just how it is. Even the people who made these videos/argued for the concept in others have gone on record admitting their conclusions weren’t defendable or have outright retracted their conclusion. Sorry if this seems a bit over board but this match up was always a blatant display of personal bias and preference towards a character over an objective analysis in the versus format.
I absolutely love your versus series videos! Even though I'm not am overly huge Star Wars fan, it's nice to hear someone go in-depth about lots of unique characters. I have a few ideas for some battles I would like to see: Kit Fisto vs. Shaak Ti Luminara Unduli vs. Bastila Shan Revan vs. Darth Maul Darth Zannah vs. Satele Shan Komari Vosa vs. Maris Brood Asajj Ventress vs Darth Malak Hope you consider some of these!
I am not a EU person and have only recently started to enjoy these versus videos so I can't really speak to the accuracy of this analysis. But I want to recognize how good you are getting at this EvanNova95. Your writing is getting really solid and your delivery is excellent. The evolution of your videos is really great. I hope this encourages you to keep kicking ass! I would only offer one point that seems to be lacking from most of the videos in this genre. It's okay to acknowledge that this is cool. You can say I just want to see these two face off and this is why. Just a thought. That's one of the things I love about popular nerd culture. We relish in the fantasy of it these days. Embrace it.
The conclusions reached in this video are made on several assumptions about Bane that are, in my opinion, held in error. Bane's physical capabilities are being drastically underrated here. His speed, something never mentioned in this video, was such that he could appear invisibly fast to other force users as an apprentice, and as of DOE he was capable of avoiding or deflecting every drop that came his way in a cloudburst. Also as of DOE, Bane moves faster than Zannah has ever seen him move before, despite having seen him while transformed into a "physical manifestation of the dark side" by his orbalisk armor in ROT. Bane's defensive capabilities and application of Soresu is also being tremendously downplayed. His defense at the beginning of his duel with Kas'im was described as "impenetrable" against Kas'im's "unstoppable attack." And then of course in DOE, he used his skills in Soresu to prevent a single drop of rain from hitting him in a cloudburst. The argument that Hoth's adaptability and broad skillset as a duelist would grant him an edge in martial combat is completely unfounded and basically flat out contradicted. What is being forgotten is that Bane already drove back Kas'im in a lightsaber duel, prior to Kas'im whipping out Jar'kai. Kas'im himself was an absolute master of all seven forms of lightsaber combat, mastering all seven of them in a few years, and spending decades perfecting each and every move and sequence of the seven forms of lightsaber combat. Kas'im had elevated his skill in every single form of lightsaber combat far beyond the level of mastery, yet Bane did not fall prey to this skillset or adaptation. Every time Kas'im altered his tactics and switched forms, Bane adapted almost instantly and continued to press his offensive advantage. Bane's tactical capabilities are also being drastically underrepresented. It is claimed that Bane can only plan things with preparation, and that things don't go his way when thrust into a situation he is uncomfortable with, but Bane has demonstrated great tactical ingenuity. On Korriban, Bane was capable of quick thinking to work his way out of a situation in which three of the other Sith Lords had him cornered and unarmed, and was capable of utilizing a spontaneous maneuver to remove one of the other Sith Lords from the fight. On Lehon, Bane demonstrated the tactical capability to immediately adapt to any of Kas'im's changes in technique, sans Jar'kai, and Kas'im was a man who had spent decades perfecting and refining each and every move in the seven forms of lightsaber combat. Bane also demonstrated great thought and adaptability with Lord Kaan, immediately working out a response to Kaan's use of mind trick that would deceive him into believing that Bane was under his control. His encounter with the Jedi on Tython is a low showing for his tactical capabilities, but this is because Bane was blinded by the bloodlust of the orbalisks, something noted to no longer be a disadvantage for him in Dynasty of Evil, and Zannah noted that he had completely refined his style since that encounter. Despite the duel on Tython being a low point for his tactical capabilities (because of the orbalisk bloodlust), Bane was still capable of demonstrating great adaptability on the field of combat and tactical ingenuity, utilizing a feint to catch Raskta Lsu off guard and throw her to the ground, and Raskta Lsu was the best duelist in the entire Jedi order. Ironically enough, what was used an example for Bane's tactical failings in this video actually counteracts the point Evannova was trying to make with it. In Bane's duel with Zannah, he actually demonstrated tactical adaptability, switching the methods he applied, and randomly and unpredictably shifting tactics to catch Zannah off guard, driving her towards a location of his choosing. Also in Bane's encounter with Zannah in the Stone Prison, this also demonstrated his tactical capabilities and adaptability, as the angle he was working in the stone prison prior to encountering Zannah was splitting his attention between misdirecting Zannah away from him to avoid an encounter with her, and tracking down Serra at the same time. And the argument that Bane's force abilities only marginally exceed Hoth's is also fallacious, given the FAR greater magnitude Bane has demonstrated. Bane's telekinesis was such that he leveled the Rakatan Temple of the Ancients well before his prime in regards to his Force abilities, and he demonstrated force lightning with the intensity to be capable of incinerating targets. While it stands to reason that Hoth is a powerful warrior, and while Hoth's usage of stasis field is insanely impressive, and the upper limits of his power is not established, it does not make sense to assume his level of force power is even close to the level of power Bane has at his disposal. At the end of the day, Hoth is an unfortunately underexposed and underrated character, and I am rather impressed with the ability he has shown in his brevity of appearance in the mythos, but he is hardly a combatant even remotely on Bane's level at his peak.
OHHHHHHHHHHHHHH SHIT Emperordmb from KMC is here too an actuall debater mmmmmmmmhm this aint good. Evan run!!! This guy will destroy in debating feats vs featless. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm NO NOO!!! RUN!!!
lol When Bane-Sithari sees this he's gonna have a cow. I think you put Bane's dueling abilities in a pretty objective and accurate light though. You did downplay his skill with Soresu, but the conclusion was based around methodology and tactics which painted a very solid picture of their compared capabilities as duelists.
Another great video friend, loved it as always. I'm reading the comment section and I think it's fair to say the tides of Bane have already been unleashed :)
I firmly think you guys got it wrong with the verdict, as I explain in detail in my crazy long comment on this page, but you guys constructed one hell of a good argument for Hoth!
Of coarse!!!! To me this was just a stunt you guys pulled so the community would respect Hoth and so that people would take him seriously as a combatant. Im Pro Bane but I know his limits and weaknesses, but i refuse to go with (points/theories that simply put aren't their.) Any way for better or worse its just a push so people would recognize Hoth. (Even though Hoths powers are unknown.) Buuuut if I you guys can Say hoth is capable of this verdict then. Darth Nihilus is better than Sidious in a lightsaber duel.
This verdict is, by far, one of the most outrageous I have ever seen. Darth Bane is not a textbook duelist. While hoth does have more experience than bane, and least 99% of the sith lords hoth faced were nowhere NEAR as skilled as bane. We actually have no idea how hoth would fair against an opponent of equal or far greater skill. Your video of darth bane vs. darth krayt perfectly did a breakdown of bane and I have to agree that Krayt is superior to bane. But in this video, you made us all assume you were definitely comparing to bane post-orbalisk armor. (If you compared them when he had his armor, its a darth bane blowout. If you compare them pre-armor then its interesting and the only way hoth has a chance of killing bane). When darth bane had his armor, his fighting style was basically to just go sheer offense, with only a slight chance his armor could be pierced, bane had absolutely no reason to be conservative and focus on defense. However, after his armor was removed, bane spent the next decade refining his style to the point where he, in a rainstorm, could use form III to not get hit by a single frigging raindrop. Is that what you call textbook? I believe you said bane was not adaptable. That is one of the biggest lies I've ever heard you say while totally serious. Bane, without his light saber, was able to trick Zannah into attacking him with pure martial abilities rather than focus on sith sorcery, allowing Bane to escape alive. This shows a great deal of cunning and ADAPTABILITY on banes part. Also, a brief note on force abilities, darth bane COMPLETELY outclasses his opponent, as hoth has never been observed performing amazing feats with the force as bane has. In fact, there is no evidence that lord hoth possesses ANY force abilities that are not average for jedi. I get that you wanted to honor lord hoth, I personally like the character and have nothing against him, but you should have chosen someone more evenly matched with hoth, rather than someone of bane's caliber, if you wanted to make him win. Then every one might think this versus video is done perfectly and not just think you're a darth bane hater or completely biased toward lord hoth. Sorry if I came off a little mean, I was just voicing my opinion.
+Jedi Root You are certainly entitled to your opinions but there's a few things I'd like to point out: 1) He DID acknowledge Bane tricking Zannah into attacking him with her lightsabre. He also pointed out that while it did demonstrate his cunning and intelligence the fact remains that Bane had around ten minutes (or thereabouts) to come up with that plan. Plus that was against his own apprentice, someone he'd trained personally, whose strengths and weaknesses he was intimately familiar with, and whom he'd expected to fight for twenty years, plenty of time for him to consider all kinds of different scenarios. There's nothing to suggest Bane could pull off anything similar against someone that's a complete unknown to him. 2) Hoth could put people in stasis with his mind. How many average Jedi can do that?
do u really think that bane wouldnt be able to shrug off hoth's mind attack? he still is the better duelist and COMPLETELY outclasses hoth in terms of a force user
+Jedi Root Given that Bane was only able to break out of Farfalla's stasis field because he was juiced up on orbalisks I'm confident that if Hoth used it on him it would at least slow him down. Better duellist? Doubtful. The chess metaphor used in this video described it perfectly. Hoth is the grandmaster who has played a gazillion games while Bane is a prodigy who's only played a few. Whatever he does Hoth will see it coming a mile away because of his far greater experience. Bane may have the edge as a Force user but I feel people put way too much stock in that. Big, flashy displays of power aren't everything.
Wright805 might i remind u that farfalla was under the effect of battle meditation and would most likely not have been able to catch bane in the stasis field had he not have been. kas'im was just as experienced as hoth, (maybe even more) and bane still was thoroughly beating him before kas'im pulled out dual blades. the difference between the two is that hoth does not wield dual blades. if bane can force a duelist of kas'im's caliber to perform a last, desperate feat, then bane could sure as heck defeat hoth. lets not even MENTION bane's superior force abilities. darth bane wins 9.5/10 times
+Wright805 I can't agree with that statement. EVERYONE that Bane fought in PoD was more experienced than he was. As were the Jedi he fought in RoT. Zannah is pretty much the ONLY Force sensitive with less experience than Bane that Bane personally confronted. I have a very hard time believing that Hoth was significantly better than Kas'im, if better at all, and Bane had no trouble dealing with Kas'im as a lightsaber duelist, until Kas'im whipped out his Jar'Kai-- an advantage Hoth doesn't have. Hoth killed a ton of Sith, yes, but he has NEVER been shown actually pitted against any of the Brotherhood's top tiers. We never see Hoth fight the likes of Kaan, Kas'im, Qordis or Kopecz. Practically EVERYONE Hoth killed were Sith grunts, fresh out of the Academy. He has never been shown in a serious lightsaber duel with any of the Brotherhood's best, and Bane was MILES ahead of any of the Brotherhood in terms of lightsaber combat and force aptitude EXCEPT for Kas'im who deliberately tailored Bane's training to ensure Bane would be weak against him. There is no indication Hoth was any better than Kas'im or Kaan. Bane would slaughter him if they battled.
I have to strongly disagree with your verdict I believe Lord Hoth Vs Bane would be much like Ka'sim vs Bane, Bane would take a small early advantage but Hoth would soon come up with a brilliant tactical way of overpowering Bane, realizing this Bane would retaliate with his incredible application of the force obliterating Hoth in an expression of pure dark side power please respond if you see this •-•
3 things. 1. You didn't take into account banes augmented speed, so fast he could avoid being hit by any drop in the rain. 2. He has experience in the heat of war just like Hoth, he was a soldier before being brought into the academy. 3. Your argument about Hoth being a superior martial artist because of his mastery of all forms is irrelevant, he both faced his former master, who was also a master of all forms, and the hoths succeeding Jedi battle master. Defeating both of these. I appreciate the effort in these videos, but you speculated to much on Hoths behalf, and I think you're a little biased towards light side
That 3rd point is good, just because someone knows all 7 forms doesn’t mean they’re the better duelist automatically. Dooku was better than everyone in his time and he only mastered Makashi. Anakin was the best duelist during ROTS because he fully mastered Djem So, and Obi Wan was a great duelist because he mastered Soresu. All 3 could beat the Jedi Battle Master, who is a supposed master of all 7 forms, and they would beat them easily.
I think Bane was greatly underestimated. Bane was likely the greatest force user of his time and was the best sith combatant. This is how he was able to excel while at Korriban and the rule of two was at the core of the reason he wanted to create the rule of two.
while little is known about how hoth's force would shape up his stats in some role playing sites imply it would be close where force abilities are concerned
I knew I should've curbed my temptations to watch this, before I finished reading through the Darth Bane trilogy of books... Another great production; it was fascinating to watch -)
This is a shocking verdict. It is a Darth Bane curbstomp. Your previous analysis of Darth Bane is so much more accurate than this one. There is no evidence that Darth Bane's moves are textbook in nature. Darth Bane never lacks experience, only time was when he faced Kas'im and was not familiar with dual blades. Even then, he compensated for this shortcoming as in the duel on Tython he was able to hold his own against multiple master duelists, one of which was wielding dual blades. So what if Lord Hoth defeated hundreds of Sith Lords? Darth Bane is on a league of his own. He has never faced anyone on Darth Bane's calibur. Lord Kaan is nothing compared to Bane. Also, the part when Bane struggled to adapt is pure nonsense. The only time Bane REALLY struggled was when he was against Zannah's dark side tendrils, and even then he managed to evade most of them, as well as fiercely resisting Zannah's spells of insanity. Darth Bane is a highly adaptable duelist, and lethal in precision. As with Force Powers.... it is a mismatch in favour of Darth Bane. Darth Bane stomps this 10/10. This match is determined by how long Hoth can withstand before biting the dust.
Notice how I said that Bane has never been confronted by an opponent thats truly tested him in a FAIR lightsaber duel. The Battle on Tython was anything but an equally sided engagement. Yes, Bane held off the combined force of multiple masters, however he was also wearing a suit that allowed him to simply take the hits from a lightsaber, heal wounds almost instantly, and Massively boost his strength in the Force. In DOE, it is made clear that Raskta Lsu (The female Duel Blade wielding Weapons Master Bane Fought) would have defeated Bane if not for the protective power of the Obelisk Armor. Heck, even Darth Zannah herself states that Sarro Xaj (the large man with the Double Bladed lightsaber) had a more refined Technique then her master.
EvanNova95 I don't see how it was "made clear" as Bane's attention was drawn to one to two other opponents at the same time rather than just her alone (who I forget were also all three empowered by battle mediation). During that time Bane was fully relying on his armor to protect/heal him and his fighting style reflected that. But since you using Bane from ten years after that where he could use Form III to block or dodge all the raindrops from a storm till it passed is a clear sign of how his skills had developed since then. Obelisk Armor Bane and post-Obelisk Armor are two different beasts. In you Bane vs Krayt you mentioned how the Book of the Sith showed how Bane would have compensated and learned from his inexperience against Jar' Kai and how Krayt, a guy who would have had decades more experience than either Bane or Hoth would not have a had a significance advantage over him and only top tier Jar' Kai specialist would have posed that much of a threat to Bane. But now you go back and point out how this would be a weakness for Bane? Plus you kind of disregard the effectiveness of Bane's advanced Force powers against Hoth who we have almost little to no information about in that area because, 'well he would have had around power' ? What exactly am I missing here? I honestly don't care that you gave the victory to Hoth, but I would care as to why. Again, your Bane vs Krayt video was broken down perfectly and made total sense, this doesn't.
EvanNova95 Indeed. At the end of the day, Darth Bane is still a awesome and badass Sith Lord . . . but his prowess is a tad exaggerated by the fans. Again he is awesome but he is not a god. Hell even other characters more powerful/skillful then Bane, for example Yoda and Darth Sidious, are often still beaten because they were out maneuvered rather then beaten head on in a power match: Yoda lost his match with Sidious because he was tricked into overexerting and tiring himself out, while Sidious ended up dying multiple times due to both overestimating his own power (his 2nd death was largely due to him losing control of the Force Storm he summoned) and underestimating both his opponents or some other factor (like Darth Vader's paternal instincts kicking into full on Papa Wolf mode in order to save his son, in addition to Vader still having the strength to kill him).
EvanNova95 One thing that you forgot was that all of the Jedi during the Battle of Tython received battle meditation that pushed their prowess to new levels. While Bane did have the obelisk armour, he still have some exposed areas of attack such as his wrist and face, and the Jedi did attempt to take advantage of his vulnerable areas. Even if his suit could protect him from lightsaber hits, it's not like Bane sustained dozens of lightsaber hits that could have finished him. In short, Bane was not reliant on the armour and relied more of his martial prowess to withstand the Jedi assault. As for Raskta Lsu, if Bane wasn't wearing his armour she could at best give him a hard time in a lightsaber duel, and get stomped in a force contest. And without the battle meditation, Darth Bane is clearly the superior duelist. At no point was Bane at a disadvantage in duels after he wasn't wearing the armour. And Zannah's assessment wasn't reliable, she didn't know the full extent of Bane's abilities until her final duel when she was losing for the majority of the fight. And regarding force abilities, its like comparing Qui Gon's Force abilities with Count Dooku's. Darth Bane's force powers were at a whole different level. So even if Hoth and Bane were evenly matched with the saber (which is false, Bane is clearly the superior duelist), Bane resorts to his force abilities and ragdolls Hoth.
Lord Hoth vs. Rahm Kota, both fought in conflicts caused by the Sith of their respective eras and both assembled armed resistance against those Sith and both led those resistance groups against those Sith. Example: Lord Hoth=Army of Light; Rahm Kota= Kota's Militia. Lord Hoth fought the Brotherhood of Darkness while Kota fought the CIS in the Clone Wars as well as the Galactic Empire during the Dark Times
with all your Versus could you do a top ten list of sith and Jedi as the best over all in terms of power on who you have worked with? I always loved those types of lists but i would be more interested in yours thanks to all your research
You forget that although bane did favor the fighting style that you mentioned he was trained in all the styles of lite saber combat and was able to seamlessly transition from one form to another. That being said I do agree with the final outcome strictly because bane's tactical prowess resides in the long game however I don't believe that hoth would be able to defeat him as easily as you make it seem more likely that the battle would have been more back and forth for a longer period of time than bane's frustration in not being able to penetrate hoth's defense and having to continuously change forms away from his comfort zone would cause him to try and power through hoth's defense but predicting this outcome hoth would be able to plan a counterattack defeating bane. Unfortunately I am a huge fan of darth bane and realizing that this outcome was inevitable was difficult to come to grips with.
Hello there, I really do enjoy your videos and gratitude for the effort! However, I would really wonder if you could do videos about non-force sensitives fighting against Jedi, Sith etc. I really wonder, for since places such Orsis Academy did exist, there must be people out there, perhaps monks and alike who somehow muster another method or ofcourse the most known type who fight Jedi or Sith: The Bounty Hunters! It would be great to have information on such people if they exist at all besides B. Hunters and have them pittet against one another in your arena!
I have 8 suggestions, you might want to take notes: 1. Darth Cadeus vs Darth Bane or Darth Reven 2. Jaina Solo Fel vs Kyle Katarn 3. Darth Nihilus vs Vitiate or Darth Reven 4. Sora Bulq vs Pong Krell 5. Leia Organa Solo vs Darth Zannah 6. Darth Sidious vs Darth Krayt 7. Darth Malak vs Darth Malgus 8. Sedriss vs Darth Venimous
Just pointing out something that almost everyone misses in every VS. Video I've seen. Lord Hoth could not be a master of all 7 forms of Lightsaber combat because there was not 7 forms during his era. The 7th form was created by Mace Windu, thousands of years after Hoth's death. Drew K the author of all the Bane books even made this mistake when writing them, talking about the 7 forms in Path Of Destruction. But back to the topic, there are exceptions of course but I've come to reason that the battle masters of the old Jedi order may not have been as skilled as battle masters during the years of the Clone Wars. Just because they didn't even know of the 7th and I may be wrong but even 6th form of combat. So it stands to reason that if to be a battle master you must master all forms, the battle master/s of the Clone Wars Era were more skilled than Hoth. Granted Hoth had much more time and experience dueling Sith, but lacking one or more additional forms it stands to reason that he would not be as skilled. Although it does not effect this match-up because Bane is in the same situation. Great video!
...*facepalm*.....yeah, it did. The seventh form was Juyo. Vaapad was Mace's custom variation on the style. Drew admitted that when Vaapad is mentioned in the first book that it was an error and that he meant to write Juyo.
Actually, the 7th form, Juyo, was in existence. You are thinking of Vaapad which was merely a more refined variation of the form that Mace had created. You could argue that Mace perfected the 7th form, but he did not create it.
What everyone else said, Juyo existed for a loooong time before this, Mace merely "perfected" the form and created a more advanced variant known as "vapaad" which can only really work for Jedi.
It sure was great to see darth bane again. While I am disappointed that he lost, I honestly can't complain. All of your arguments were convincing and I actually find it ironic that bane lost once more due to the fact that his foe had more experience just like the battle with darth krayt. While bane is no pushover, he can't stand against a master "chess" player like hoth. Thanks for having reti4 on the show evanova95 and for a future versus video could you possibly either do darth sideous vs darth krayt or mace windu vs count dooku? Loved how much reasearch, passion, and time was put into this video. Thanks again evanova95. 😃
While i'm a fan of both Evan and Reti4,if you haven't read the Bane novels go read them,Hoth has more experience at fighting low level warriors and has never been shown fighting anyone of note,Hoth would be 1 dead old Man!
Mark Fair My point exactly, but its his video so I wont stop him from expressing himself. However I will take what is fact or not To be honest to me this was this years Revan vs Luke. A character with feats/showings vs a character with no feats. I knew when I first saw that vid I knew Luke would win because he is Luke he always wins(look up debates). This one was the opposite Bane(had showings of his skill) and Hoth(has no showings of his skill just off screen kills and or feats, Evan made him look like the squirrel girl of Star wars judging by his analysis) Went through armies of Sith? Show me a page or book of him doing so? Hoth is powerful in the force I want to see his power and not butting heads with my boy Farfalla all the time. Also...................I wont go further. Ive made my point enough in the comments. Despite Evan saying he is Unknown he still declares them as equal, contradicting.
I gotta be honest, there is nothing suggesting that Hoth is superior to Bane. Hoth is pretty much equal to, if not, slightly stronger than Lord Kaan, who essentially acknowledged that Bane would destroy him. We can’t speculate just how strong Hoth was, likely quite powerful, but in no way do I think this merits putting him above Darth Bane, who himself is one of the best duellists we’ve seen, and a masterful force user.
@@kagamiuchihathebeast5862 tcw was good. Don’t see what it has to do with this video. Especially considering that he’s gotten much better at making videos and has several where sith win over Jedi
I believe that if you are talking about Darth Bane during the events of "Path of Destruction", then yes the battle would likely go in favor of Lord Hoth. But if we are talking about Darth Bane in his prime, say during the events of Rule of Two, then Bane would most certainly stomp Lord Hoth.
Thank you evan, that was a wonderful match-up. For the future plz keep in mind Quin lan vos vs. Eeth koth Even piell vs. kit fisto Nadaar vebb vs. k'krukk
I thoroughly enjoyed this video and this is coming from a Darth Bane fan. I definitely plan to read the rest of the trilogy, however, this video has piqued my interest in Lord Hoth. He just seems to reek of manliness! lol. Also, I always enjoy the music that you use in your videos. Keep up the good work. :)
Lord Hoth shouldn't have won this at all. This was the biggest shock I have received in a vs series. Hoth was the equal to kon and kon even knew he would get obliterated by bane. He knew not to challenge him... And I believe if hoth saw and felt bane's presence hoth would fight but knew he would die.
I have asked my question incompletely :P Meant to ask any Jedi/Sith versus where a SIth wins. The one with Count Dooku vs Qui Gon is kind of a fluke considering he was his apprentice after all. Also, I laughed hard at your 2nd link. Yeah, it'd be real strange for a Sith _not_ to win when _both_ of the contenders are one. :D
* Hears Reti4 talking about Hoth pulling a Kool-Aid man on Bane, pictures Hoth busting through a wall next to Bane screaming "Oh yeah!" and starting the fight as Bane drops a brick in his pants due to shock at the absurdity of it all * Thanks for that mental image guys! As far as the matchup goes I do feel Bane is being a bit underrepresented here though I agree Hoth would be an encounter Bane wouldn't simply be able to bulldoze through.
Which Darth Bane is this? Are you talking Darth Bane from Path of Destruction, Rule of Two, or Dynasty of Evil? If it's PoD Bane, I can agree that Hoth would win. Otherwise, orbalisk armor Bane, or post-orbalisk Bane would most likely win against Hoth. I do thank you for this video, as it sheds light on a character whom doesn't have very readily available information about him, but I still don't agree that he'd win. I agree that Hoth and Bane are approximately equal regarding their physical capabilities (sans orbalisk Bane, whom clearly outclasses Hoth in that category). I do not agree with your comparison of their lightsaber skills however. It's not fair to say Juyo was a fallback for Bane. It was more like simply another tool for him to use at his disposal and discretion. Why not mention that his potentially still-existing weakness against dual-blade lightsaber-wielding opponents is irrelevant against Hoth; it shouldn't at all matter in this match-up. Also, Bane's fighting style was not at all textbook. "When he was no longer afforded the protection of orbalisk armor, Bane adapted a more complex and unpredictable style that incorporated feints and defensive maneuvers." That is not textbook to any of the forms. His style is not as you describe it: a combination, but clear separate use of Djem So, Soresu, or Juyo... it is instead a harmonious blending of the three. And I easily believe Bane's mastery of Djem So was superior to Hoth's. I think Hoth was the more well-rounded duelist, but he was not in the same league of the best Djem So masters in the Star Wars universe like Bane remains in, along with Vader (both ROTS and ROTJ versions) and Luke for example. 21:01-21:20... can you provide an example of this? I do agree with your point that Hoth would have the tactical advantage, but I don't think it's as significant of an advantage as you seem to view it. I think, if anything, it evens up the playing field for Hoth, rather than places him above Bane. 31:33-31:37... how is Hoth in the same league as Bane as a force-user? Even after your comparison, it's clear to see Hoth is assuredly NOT at all in the same league. Sure, he's extremely adept at using what he has, but what he has doesn't compare to what Bane has, both in Bane's wider array of force powers and in raw power of the Force. While I agree, Bane's advantage in the Force doesn't automatically grant him the victory against Hoth, it's clearly enough of an advantage to where they are not in the same league as force-users. "And [Hoth] runs dead even with Bane in terms of raw Force power." When has Hoth done anything to match the magnitude of Bane demolishing the Temple of the Ancients (and mind you that was in Path of Destruction, so it's reasonable to assume that Bane's potency in the Force only grew stronger.)? 39:35-39:48... how exactly would Hoth necessarily be able to "endure and power on through"? Bane's superior power in the Force is more than minutely so. (Refer to what I said/queried just above) You make the point that Bane suffers from not fighting enemies near his level... but what about Hoth, why does he not apparently suffer from the same thing? I'd even argue that, while Hoth does have more experience, he has more experience specifically against fighting *multiple* enemies (most, if not all basically fodder and all-around unimpressive opponents). Bane on the other hand has more experience fighting in more intimate combat situations like duels, and against actually impressive opponents. In the first of 3 books about him, Bane fought evenly with Kas'im, one of the best Sith swordsmen the Sith ever knew, before Kas'im revealed his trump card, a style Bane had absolutely no experience against; he also, with some help from Zannah, fought and defeated 4 notable Jedi, 2 of which were the best duelists of the Jedi Order at the time (one being Raskta Lsu, the battlemaster after Hoth), and all of them being empowered by the Jedi Worrow's battle meditation, while Bane and Zannah were hindered by it. In my mind, Hoth and Bane are approximate equals in physical combat, and while Hoth has the advantage in his more adaptable tactical approach to combat, Bane has much more of an advantage via the Force than you give him credit for. It'd be like Kas'im against younger Bane, in that, if Hoth doesn't use all his effort to defend against Bane's destructive force powers, he's pretty much doomed. I think, like Kas'im, Hoth could effectively defend against Bane's force powers, but especially because Bane is more powerful in his prime than in PoD, Hoth would not easily be able to defend against them, and it would wear him down. I think IF the gap in their respective force abilities was smaller, Hoth would win. In other words, I think Bane's superiority in the Force ultimately grants him the victory. I did say above it doesn't automatically grant him the win, and to further explain that, I meant he doesn't just easily win because he trumps Hoth in the Force... because he doesn't. He is, as I've said, superior however with it, enough to where Hoth could not indefinitely defend against Bane's force powers without tiring and/or getting hurt to an extent... which would then be the tipping point in Bane's favor. Furthermore, I think if Hoth were to defend against Bane's lightning for example, it would not be anywhere near how Kao simply deflected Vindican's lightning, it would be more like Windu using all his strength to defend against Sidious' force lightning (except obviously Hoth would be like a lesser Windu, and Bane, a lesser Sidious). I am glad I stuck through the entire video though, because I learned a lot about Hoth and his abilities. I at first, upon reading the title of the video thought this was a stupid match-up, but by the end of it, I was convinced Hoth would give Bane in his prime one hell of a fight, probably his toughest (his fight with Zannah doesn't count because he was beating her, but she defeated him by using her trump card, the dark side tendrils, which she could only use on the force nexus of Ambria evidently).
Also what Emperordmb said: "The argument that Hoth's adaptability and broad skillset as a duelist would grant him an edge in martial combat is completely unfounded and basically flat out contradicted. What is being forgotten is that Bane already drove back Kas'im in a lightsaber duel, prior to Kas'im whipping out Jar'kai. Kas'im himself was an absolute master of all seven forms of lightsaber combat, mastering all seven of them in a few years, and spending decades perfecting each and every move and sequence of the seven forms of lightsaber combat. Kas'im had elevated his skill in every single form of lightsaber combat far beyond the level of mastery, yet Bane did not fall prey to this skillset or adaptation. Every time Kas'im altered his tactics and switched forms, Bane adapted almost instantly and continued to press his offensive advantage."
I appreciate you analyzes, and while we may have differing options on the verdict, one of the goal of this video was to shed light on Lord Hoth, a character that I myself have always enjoyed, so at least i was able to do that :)
EvanNova95 You definietly put a LIGHT on hoth but.....why would you delcare them equal as force users? Theirs nothing on him......its like cutting blanks. Atleast you broke it down abit but.........I dont see Hoth as Noteworthy. also you cant declare unkown as equal to a known one in physical abilities thats just cutting it too far. Unless I can declare Darth Nihilus (an unknown) an equal to Sidious in sabers then im cool with that. Idk Hoth was amazing in his Jedi vs Sith stories and Pod but in a debate Hoth doesnt have feats to back himself up. But its your vid I could choose if this fact or not. I wont let my fanboysim of Bane hate this vid, but the fact that I do this feats vs featless thing all the time wont let me like it either, beacuse im still trying to fight a good one. Until I come to terms withs facts,but Overall I love this Vid it made me appreciate Lord Hoth alot more (even though I personally felt like you buffed him, but how else would people take Hoth seriously as a combatant right?). Even though I LOVED FARFALLA more. Farfalla ftw!!
@@thecesaroguy2447 Hoth isnt equal in the force to Bane, Bane is the chosen one of the sith and for the most part a self taught sithlord, Lord Hoth was at the top of the jedi at the time, but nothing suggests he was close to Bane level or capable of Bane tier feats evan clearly highballed Hoth.
My biggest gripe with this video is that your whole point that Bane lost was because of lack of experience, when it came to lightsaber duels. Yet the force users you hold in such high esteem, also have that in common. Yoda, Sidious, Mace Windu as well as the other Jedi Masters from that era. You are clearly biased, you don't respect the power of Old Republic force users that much. This shows in your match ups ( Darth Malgus vs Mara Jade) ( Revan vs Luke) (Vitiate vs Sidious) ( Darth Bane vs. Darth Krayt)
Despite what I have just said, I enjoy all the Verses Series you and your friends do. I'm a political science student so I enjoy to debate. Good job and keep it up!
I'm going to cover these one at a time Luke vs revan this was one of his first matchups and do you honestly think that revan can beat grandmaster Luke? Malgus vs Mara he explained that in a straight up fight Mara would be destroyed and it was her tactical ingenuity that would win not her pure skill Sidious vs vitiate OK outside his rituals what has vitiate actually done? Krayt vs bane he said they were evenly matched but krayts unique force powers might be enough. Also keep in mind that he pits these against some of the most powerful of all time while you act like they are mere padawans Also revan and vitiate were one sided from the start they are going up against the most powerful in history and are not that good themselves And finally the whole "clone wars have no experience" cliche argument They have regular sparring sessions which are normal duels without the threat of death so I'd like to see vitiate beat dooku in a straight up duel no force.
Also the thing is with the lack of experience mace Yoda etc they devote themselves to their training and study of the force while with bane that despite his strength is more of a hobby. Also Yoda mace etc are pitted against others with similar experience while bane is going up against a war hero and long time battlemaster
@@blackt1gers308 First my friend Bane's personal development as both a combatant and as a sith lord is not a hobby to him. Secondly its irrelevant whether Hoth is a war hero and his status as a battlemaster guarantees him nothing. Hoth has done nothing to indicate he has the ability to decisively defeat PoD Bane let alone Bane at the height of his power. In truth he's far too much of an unknown to even be used in a series like this
I enjoy your videos but this your worst verdict. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but you were using flawed logic and questionable data to state yours.
***** Read a wookiepedia on them both and you will get a reason why some are angry, then.....read All the jedi novels and hoth and the bane books then you will see why many hated this one.
I do believe that Hoth has better tactics and is a more skilled duelist my only problem is Hoth was never shown having any powerful force powers Bane on the other hand is like darth vader he has extremely powerful force ability.
slothshark Well, I believe Darth Nihilus is better duelist than Sidious, my only problem is that Nihilus has never been shown any other powers but giga drain. Sidious is godlike in the force.
Great versus video! I've actually been wondering about this particular match up ever since I read Path of Destruction. In regards to a versus video suggestion, I've got only one that I feel would be a rather even match. Jax Pavan, from the Coruscant Nights trilogy and Last Jedi versus Ahsoka Tano. Ahsoka left the Order just before she could be Knighted, and Order 66 went down just three months after Jax Pavan was Knighted. Tano was trained by Anakin, Pavan was trained with Anakin, often as his sparring partner. I just really like the thought of this versus matchup. (However, if Pavan is granted the abilities he received from Ramage's Holocron, it's kind of a curbstomp.)
+Hikou72 He didn't kill him by dueling him, he killed him by tricking him into killing himself and all other Force users around him, leaving only himself standing as the galaxy's sole Sith. In a direct fight at that point, Bane would've been absolutely slaughtered by Hoth. I find Hoth comparable with Malgus - they both live war. In a way, they ARE war. They fought so many battles that lightsaber combat became a daily thing for them. That's actually a match I'd like to see.
+tfl1997 In thr book it was stated that Kane knew he was no match for Bane physically or in the power of the force. Hoth and Kane were rivals implying that they were st similar power levels. If early Bane could beat Kane (Kane acknowledged this) how can anyone believe Kane's rival could beat a much stronger later Bane.
+Hikou72 Rivals doesn't per se mean equal power levels - rivals means that it's always those two up against each other. It means that they only acknowledge the other as someone to fight and no one else. I'm getting the feeling that if Hoth and Kane fought, Hoth would've wiped the damn floor with them. Like I said, I compare him to Malgus because his entire life he's been fighting a war. Bane hasn't fought near as much as Hoth, for whom warfare was like breathing. At that point, it doesn't matter anymore how powerful an opponent is, unless it's a power gap like between Hoth and Sidious. If your enemy has several decades of direct experience more, you're fucked. Simple as that. And besides, what you just used was ABC-logic. A beats B so A beats C too. What you didn't look at was the context in which this fight is happening.
+tfl1997 Kane has far more expirience but it was acknowledged that he still couldn't beat Bane. Given that a young Bane could fight Kas'im for all his years of expirience and exceed Kane's power so soon after first feeling the force there is no reason to believe he should lose to Hoth. At the end of the day we just don't know about Hoth very much. We know Bane was the strongest sith in the galaxy, we know he would later fight 2 expirienced and 1 noob jedi buffed by battle meditation and win in book 2. We know he could practice dueling in the rain without getting wet by book 3. We know Bane is FAR stronger than anyone else in the series. You can't just deciede that Hoth is stronger than Kane because you "have a feeling". You have to use the given information. I agree that Hoth would win against Kane too but I can't PROVE it because I have no way to back it up
That was Raskta Lsu, she was a WeaponsMaster, not a BattleMaster, also as I've explained already Bane had his Obelisk armor in that fight, which gave him an unfair advantage.
He did duel Kas'im in the first book, who mastered all seven forms of lightsaber combat and spent decades perfecting every move and sequence of the seven forms. Before Kas'im switched to Jar'kai, Bane was driving him back, and adapting to whatever shift in form or technique Kas'im brought to bare.
***** Were they actually canonically better than Hoth? Was Hoth not dead during the period of that duel via the thought-bomb? If so they were probably not canonically "better" than Hoth, they were simply the best around at the time. And did it actually say she was the best duelist? Would that not make her a battle-master and not a "weapons-master" (I am admittedly unfamiliar with the title.) Also I find it hard to believe Bane was effected by battle-meditation to any meaningful degree when he was hopped up on the equivalent to dark-side steroids/cocaine via the Armour, while the Armour itself is a very large significant factor that I think you are downplaying. Being able to shrug off lightsaber wounds, and heal quickly/passively from those that get through is an *ENORMOUS* (And quite frankly cheap.) advantage. The Jedi were battle-meditated but Banes armour very much evened the playing field if not actually tipping the odds in Banes favor. (Being able to passively endure typically lethal or at least instantly maiming attacks while being able to implement those attacks yourself with full effectiveness is a *very* big deal.) He would have died several times over in that engagement if not for the armour and that's a fact, while Zannah did apparently admit one of the Jedi present was a better duelist than her master even. : / He may not have hit his prime as a duelist then, but I don't think he improved to any greatly significant degree when he did. I do think Evan downplayed Banes skill with Soresu, but overall the general conclusion which was based around tactics rather than technical refinement made a lot of sense to me.
GreyFensir Wulf Raskta wasn't explicitly stated to be superior to Hoth in lightsaber skill but the descriptions of their abilities make's it pretty solid. Hoth never demonstrated the almost supernatural levels of skill that Raskta did. This may simply be because of his minimal exposure, but the point still stands that he never demonstrated skill even close to hers.
+Carson Bader If that were the case, he would've been slaughtered by Sirak and his goons in the archives when they ambushed him with no lightsaber. The idea that he needs preparation to fight effectively is completely unfounded speculation that contradicts several known instances of Bane being ambushed and turning the situation to his favor despite this.
Glad you made this fight. I really need to revaluate Bane as a duelist apparently. I had always viewed him as on par with the likes of Krayt or Tenebrous.
Amazing dude!! But could you possibly give me a way to contact you in order to ask for advice on a project I'm working on? If not I get, but how about Saesee tiin vs. quinlin vos
I'm very behind the times but: Lord Khan admits that Darth Bane would annihilate him in Chapter 19 of Path of Destruction, and Bane at that point is not at his full power. When Hoth is considering entering the Thought Bomb chamber alone he admits that he doesn't think he can take Khan one on one. Even without that, all of Hoth's abilities are sheer speculation. We only have real concrete evidence for Bane's and they are ridiculously good. He's not Sideous, Luke Skywalker of Mary Sue Revan no. But he IS top tier. And he would annihilate Hoth. With difficulty, yes, but he would kill him. Just look what he does to Cordis, one of the top Sith Lords of his day. He crushes him with the force, as in not figuratively, he ACTUALLY crushes him without breaking a sweat. I really like your videos but I've yet to see a Sith beat a Jedi. The Jedi are heroes because they face the Sith even though the Sith are more powerful, they pull out circumstantial and incomplete wins in books and movies when they do win. I respect that you really like Jedi over the Sith, but some of these results are a bit absurd. Keep up the videos though, they are entertaining :)
I completely agree with your verdict. I actually thought about this duel already and when I saw the video title I was anxious to hear your thoughts. I too gave Lord Hoth the edge over Bane.
To be fair William should not have been wrong on the final verdict. Bane would unquestionably win based on what is factually known about both characters.
When more information comes out you should do a match up between starkiller from "The Force Unleashed II" and adult Ahsoka Tano from "Star Wars Rebels".
***** Oh but haven't you heard? Hoth is the best Lightsaber duelist of his time. And he can adapt to anything Bane throws at him. These baseless claims brought to you by EvanNova95 Hoth doesn't even has feats to suggest that Bane wouldn't kill him like he did Qordis in PoD.
"Hou dear u? Bane wood like totaly destroi Hot." said every troll watching this video. Good job on this one. I never expected Lord Hoth. He was interesting in the book, but I just didn't think there was enough info on his skills.
Love the video Master Evan. When you said the the comments will be terrible I just yelled "damnit Lord Bane"!!!! I love Darth Bane, but never the less, a fantastic video as always. I would love to meet you and the Force council one day. Also, what is the song at the end of the video? Darth Sarres out.
The reason there is an inconsistency is because Evan is trying in this video to highlight Hoth to his audience. That's the point of the video for some reason. The problem is he's doing so by both greatly exaggerating Hoth's capabilities (and simply making assumptions he can in no way prove or even reasonably infer) and downplaying Bane so the match up appears more even than it actually is in reality.
Great video. I've been a fan for quite a while, and I have a versus series matchup idea if you're interested. Jaina Solo-Fel vs Lord Starkiller as depicted in the dark side DLC in the force unleashed. Hope you like the idea.
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It's honestly fun going back and Re listening to these videos 8+ years later when you have much more wisdom and are able to come at this with a fresh perspective plus you understand things a lot better
My thoughts exactly. I’ve been listening to the earth babe audiobooks and it’s cool knowing so much about him and what he’s about. If you haven’t read/listened to banes books I HIGHLY recommend it
Earth Babe audiobooks...😂
@@mrrictuslol, there are definitely a lot of babes here on earth🤣
Does anyone else think that some of the pictures of Darth Bane make him look a lot like Darkseid from DC comics?
This is a special Match Up that I've been working on for a while so I hope you guys Enjoy! :)
Do Galen Marek vs Darth Bane, or Darth Malgus vs Galen Marek.
Loved the Cool-aid bit. XD Also could you do Bane vs Plagueis?
Could you do Obi Wan Kenobi vs Darth Malak
Darth Bane vs Asajj Ventress.
So basically if Bane had a minute of prep time, he would win?
I feel like that's alot of speculation of Lord Hoth's abilities
Hello
It's too much speculation, nowhere near enough facts.
Let's see if you can do better
@@thomashylemon9975 big brain reply
To be fair, to my knowledge, there’s only one source for Lord Hoth and that’s Darth Bane’s book
APOLOGIES IN ADVANCE FOR THE NOVEL I'M ABOUT TO WRITE HERE, BUT THIS NEEDS TO BE SAID:
I appreciate the case being made for General Hoth. But not against a character of Bane's stature. Although I fully recognize that on the sole occasion that I used Bane in a vs. video he lost the round to Mace Windu (a controversial verdict that still stirs up arguments to this day) I really have to speak on his behalf here. I was FULLY onboard with the logic you presented in his bout with Darth Krayt even if I felt the contest could have gone either way in the end.
This time I just don't know what to make of your argument. The point you make about the number of serious lightsaber duels that Bane was involved in being countable on only one hand, whereas Hoth had dozens if not hundreds of skirmishes is misleading I think. Although I don't believe you were being purposely misleading I just want to point this out. On the surface you do have a point. But then of course we need to consider the caliber of fighters that both were facing. If the greatest duelist has the highest kill count, then someone like Wolf Sazen should be as legendary as Mace Windu or Exar Kun. And we both know that Wolf Sazen was far from the greatest duelist the galaxy has ever produced. But he killed an insane amount of Sith. The explanation for this? They were weak and in Bane's eyes would never have been worthy of being called Sith. Krayt may have had legions at his command, but few were actually exceptionally powerful and skilled. This was also the case during Kaan and Hoth's time. Something which was central to the story and one of the reasons Bane set out to destroy the Brotherhood in the first place.
Sure there were a few powerhouses out there on either side of the conflict between the Army of Light and the Brotherhood of Darkness. But one Sith is not equal to another. Hoth was facing Sith at around or below someone like Sirak's level, and common mercs and foot-soldiers more often than not. I mean, even Githany (with whom I have never been particularly impressed) was one of the more credible threats under Kaan's command. As far as I know, Hoth never did combat with Kas'im nor Kaan, nor even Kopecz or Qordis. And they were pretty much the cream of the crop at the time for the Sith and each one weaker than Bane. Anybody Hoth faced would have to have been beneath Kasi'm's level of skill as Kaan recognized the Blademaster as the greatest warrior in the brotherhood. If Bane could force the greatest Sith Blademaster of the era to pull out his last maneuver out of desperation, he could definitely stand against Lord Hoth and in my view be counted on to push him to his limits.
The only Jedi I could even entertain the idea of defeating Darth Bane in a pure lightsaber contest from that time would be Raskta Lsu of course. Her accolades as far as swordsmanship (not tactics or leadership ability) were more highly venerated by Farfalla, a decorated and credible veteran of many of the same battles than Hoth's were. I think it's an assumption to place Hoth in league with the likes of Lsu or Kas'im given we never really watched him fight anybody notable. But even if Lsu pressured Bane to the point that he found himself on the losing end of a lightsaber fight (we're talking a hypothetical where he would not have his armor and she would not have Battle Meditation) he would be able to overcome her with a demonstration of Force power. The difference between Bane and Raskta, is in my view comparable to the difference between Sidious and Mace. Though the gap between depth in the Force is far greater in the former case, my point remains the same. Moving on.
Now, then there's the point about Bane being weak against dual blades. That's not really important for me to try to debunk because Hoth's not going to be using them. But at the same time I don't agree with listing that as a "great" or "crippling" weakness for him. The main reason why is because you seem to be discounting the fact that in each case that he was pitted against the exotic weapons his opponents were the greatest duelists living in the galaxy at the time. Almost anybody would have trouble dealing with an application of dual sabers from the likes of Kas'im and Raskta. But this has little to do with this match.
But what you said about Bane's tactical approach and failure to adapt is just blatantly incorrect in my view and seems all too dismissive. It's the point I disagree with most strongly. Perhaps it was just the wording of it, but the way you detailed the very idea behind vs. matches being that we are dropping the fighters into a situation cold where they have no time to make a plan carried a troubling implication. If what you say is true, then no matter who he was matched up against in one of these videos, Bane would be at a disadvantage under your logic because he can't plan out what he's going to do.
And then we have to consider the things he's actually managed to pull off when at a disadvantage such as when he's been weakened by poison, found himself unarmed, outnumbered or simply caught at the worst possible time. Like that the fact that on Lehon, BANE was the one ambushed by Kas'im. Who really had time to plan and who had to adapt? In the chamber on Korriban, who had to manipulate the situation on the fly when confronted by Githany, Yevra, Llokay, and Sirak? On Tython, he had his orbalisk armor, so tactics kind of went out the window. But even then, he had to put up with 3 Jedi, one the greatest duelist of her time, 4 lightsabers being wielded offensively against him, and an Ithorian master's battle meditation. And he struck out in all of the Jedi team's vulnerable spots and they had to coordinate perfectly when he forced them on the defensive such as Farfalla having to protect Raskta and Worror when he targeted them in different ways throughout the engagement. And in dynasty his escape from the prison on Doan showed how quickly he can think on his feat at almost every turn. He proved capable of mustering through Cognus' abilities after having had time to process them, and even in defeat his final duel with Zannah showed how proactive and adaptable he was. His final efforts admirable as I think they were just weren't enough to deal with one of the most extreme demonstrations of Sorcery that we have been presented with. However, he did come close to killing her even after being wounded by the tendrils. The point is, this argument about not being adaptable or performing things in text book fashion just doesn't really hold water in Bane's case. You'll forgive me for saying so, but I don't think you could truly level that charge at any duelist of Bane's caliber.
Lastly while you did rightly award Bane the edge as a Force Wielder, you placed Hoth in the same league as him with relatively little evidence to back that up. Yes, Hoth had to know what he was doing in order to hold his title as the leader of the Army of Light. But the same could be said for Kaan on the side of the Brotherhood who was thoroughly cowed into submission when Bane stormed in barking orders and more ore less hijacked the war council. Kopecz even noted to Bane's face how unnerving all of the other Sith found him. EVERYONE in the Brotherhood was outclassed by Bane as far as Force potential was concerned. This was the main reason Kopecz so ardently pushed for his admittance to the Academy after his stint in the Gloom Walkers. Hoth never faced anybody with that level of power. And based on what little we know of what Hoth accomplished and what Bane could be observed doing, I think it's safe to say that Bane would likely be able to take this match on that basis alone if it came to it.
In short, even if Hoth was Bane's superior as a duelist (a hypothesis I do not agree with at all) Bane would be able to defeat him through use of the Force. Unlike Jedi like Mace Windu or Satele Shan (just to name 2 out of many other candidates), Hoth has not been demonstrated to be as capable when it comes to countering the specific kinds of powers that Bane can bring to bear.
This was a video I appreciated in the same way that I regarded Antoine and Callan's team battle with Shaak Ti, Plo Koon, Dooku, and Maul. I like the tribute the to the character of Hoth. I appreciate the case being crafted in his favor. I appreciate the use of such a relatively minor figure in a video like this. I just think you should have used him against somebody else. This is one of those times where I just don't agree with the outcome in the slightest.
Fair Enough
Never apologize for a well thought out and reasoned response. I, too, appreciate working in General Hoth, but so little time was spent detailing this characters actual abilities. And without knowing too much about his adversaries, it is impossible to anchor his achievements to do a fair comparison.
Gonna have to agree with Matt on this one. Bane was a lot more capable of improvising than you gave him credit for. I actually plan to eventually do my own take on Yoda vs. Darth Bane. I did not agree with Antoine's verdict.
Lobomaru02 I must agree with Lobomaru and GreyJedi although as others have mentioned Evan your video content is top notch and very enjoyable, I applaud your efforts and hope you continue making good videos like this one.
Of course as you said you were expecting some sort of backlash at the end of the video, and to be fair I enjoy hearing well reasoned arguments even if I do disagree with the final outcome.
GreyJedi91 Whats the novel about? and damn Grey Jedi thats a burn.Will the novel be audio narrated by you?
Bane: Hmm **reading data streams in his study**
Hoth: OH YEAH!! =D **breaks through the wall, lightsaber drawn**
Bane: WTF?! O_o
Hell Yeah
EvanNova95
Well that would be about my reaction if someone came bursting through my wall like the fucking Cool-Aid man (Lightsaber or not)
He he u and me both
I just love the little skit at the very end of the video, with Hoth coming in to the Attack on Titan theme, becaise its makes me imagine Lord Hoth with the voice of Shadas from Attack on Titan Abridged.
Lord Hoth: WELL SWEET MOTHER TERESA ON THE HOOD OF A MERCEDES BENZ!!!
Hehe true
Wow! I'll bet Bane never thought about taking on Lord Hoth himself while training in the Sith Academy... or after returning from Lehon to Ruusan. This Jedi has quite the reputation on the battlefield. If the outcome of this match would be as you've depicted it, Bane was smart enough not to face Hoth. To have done so with pretty little experience would've been a flirt with suicide.
Nice commentary from Reti4. And I so loved the ending! Really funny!
Since Hoth has proven himself to be a more-than-competent fighter, how about pitting him against two possible candidates for being his equal: Darth Vader and General Grievous.
2003 Micro-Series Grievous?
I don't think Grievous was on par with Vader, the advantage of four and sometimes six limbs did a lot for him, but he was generally just competent and had a lot of physical enhancements backing up his technique. Vader would be a fitter match imo. If push came to shove beyond dueling Hoth would probably just destroy Grievous with force powers like Windu almost did.
*****
Mostly Grievous before Mace Windu used the Force Crush on his organ sack.
Late once again to the party but the outcome of this match would almost certainly not be what was presented in this video.
Hoth is not a character that can realistically be used in the versus format. Too speculative in every major area.
Yeah, pretty much knew where this was going given the amount of time you sent describing Hoth despite the relatively small amount of knowledge we have of him and his abilities compared to Bane. I personally think you made a lot of a assumptions here about Hoth while seemingly playing down Bane so I could not possibly disagree with this verdict more. I agreed 100% with you when it came to Bane vs Krayt, but this one is bizarrely one sided when it really shouldn't be.
Lord Hoth.......How the hell did I not know about such a boss D: I feel so ashamed
You shouldn't tbh, Hoth's a good (if flawed) character (and i highly recommend reading the bane trilogy) but his portrayal as a combatant here is inflated and based more on opinion than anything else.
@@tiredjediknight3110 He did have extensive combat experience against powerful sith opponents, and also succed almost all the way, that does say he was powerful
Nice video :) and even though I disagree with the verdict this video is still incredibly well made and in my opinion is your best video to date. Keep up the good work dude :)
Thank You, I always try to improve each video
Great video. Thank you for clearing up the differences in form 5 variances. It makes a lot more sense to me now.
Your timing couldn't be better, I just completed listening to the audiobook of Darth Bane - Path of Destruction. It was AMAZING.
The greatest words of Lord Hoth, "OH YEEEEEEAAAAAAAH!"
I highly disagree with this. Hoth is no where close to being an equal force user and you just assumed this fight would go without Bane reverting to his force powers Bane wins 10/10
Bias much
bane's lightning, as powerful as it is, can still be absorbed by Hoth's lightsaber, and would have no merit other than as a distraction. as for bane's telekinesis, it is unclear how much of an effect will it have on hoth. in no sources has hoth been described as weak against telekinesis(at least not to the extent of Kenobi). Hoth is durable enough to tank the damage. to be fair, his force stun would not really work on someone as powerful as bane, but there is nothing bane can do that Hoth has to be weary of. Of course, bane's telekinesis and lightning are powerful, but these are powers Hoth can deal with. bane uses the force purely as a blunt hammer, nothing inventive. while bane is superior in the force to Hoth, it is more like Yoda and Dooku, rather than Yoda and Obi Wan Kenobi. i agree with the verdict.
@@kirillzakharov7336 there is nothing that Bane can do that Hoth has to be wary of....
Even if that was true and it certainly isn’t what can Hoth possibly do that would give him any edge over Bane?
This contest has been nonsense from the moment it was conceived, Hoth is a character that is far too lightly featured and far too speculative to even be used in the versus format in any fair manner.
@@tiredjediknight3110 I agree with the later but considering the details as him as a swordmans alone is puts him above bane Due to all that experience
@@analothor I’m sorry but no Hoth’s experience is against the grunts of the Sith forces some of which weren’t even force sensitive and all of which even the force sensitive ones were substantially weaker and less skilled than even the lowliest of the students at the Sith academy bane studied at. Hoth never faced anyone even remotely as skilled a combatant as Bane and he certainly never in his entire life faced anyone as powerful as Bane even at the point in time where Bane engineered the destruction of the brotherhood of darkness let alone later in life when Bane was at the height of his mastery. Objectively there is nothing Hoth has ever done that makes him defeating Bane a likely possibility in the versus format. He doesn’t have an objective edge as a duelist, he absolutely doesn’t have any edge as a force wielder at all, he has no edge in terms of his weaponry or equipment and he has no physical advantage over Bane either. He has nothing he can leverage over Bane that stacks the odds in his favour at all but Bane by contrast does. That’s just how it is. Even the people who made these videos/argued for the concept in others have gone on record admitting their conclusions weren’t defendable or have outright retracted their conclusion.
Sorry if this seems a bit over board but this match up was always a blatant display of personal bias and preference towards a character over an objective analysis in the versus format.
I absolutely love your versus series videos! Even though I'm not am overly huge Star Wars fan, it's nice to hear someone go in-depth about lots of unique characters. I have a few ideas for some battles I would like to see:
Kit Fisto vs. Shaak Ti
Luminara Unduli vs. Bastila Shan
Revan vs. Darth Maul
Darth Zannah vs. Satele Shan
Komari Vosa vs. Maris Brood
Asajj Ventress vs Darth Malak
Hope you consider some of these!
A great match! I really enjoy your versus matches. This was one of my favorites. Thank you.
I am not a EU person and have only recently started to enjoy these versus videos so I can't really speak to the accuracy of this analysis. But I want to recognize how good you are getting at this EvanNova95. Your writing is getting really solid and your delivery is excellent. The evolution of your videos is really great. I hope this encourages you to keep kicking ass! I would only offer one point that seems to be lacking from most of the videos in this genre. It's okay to acknowledge that this is cool. You can say I just want to see these two face off and this is why. Just a thought. That's one of the things I love about popular nerd culture. We relish in the fantasy of it these days. Embrace it.
The conclusions reached in this video are made on several assumptions about Bane that are, in my opinion, held in error.
Bane's physical capabilities are being drastically underrated here. His speed, something never mentioned in this video, was such that he could appear invisibly fast to other force users as an apprentice, and as of DOE he was capable of avoiding or deflecting every drop that came his way in a cloudburst. Also as of DOE, Bane moves faster than Zannah has ever seen him move before, despite having seen him while transformed into a "physical manifestation of the dark side" by his orbalisk armor in ROT.
Bane's defensive capabilities and application of Soresu is also being tremendously downplayed. His defense at the beginning of his duel with Kas'im was described as "impenetrable" against Kas'im's "unstoppable attack." And then of course in DOE, he used his skills in Soresu to prevent a single drop of rain from hitting him in a cloudburst.
The argument that Hoth's adaptability and broad skillset as a duelist would grant him an edge in martial combat is completely unfounded and basically flat out contradicted. What is being forgotten is that Bane already drove back Kas'im in a lightsaber duel, prior to Kas'im whipping out Jar'kai. Kas'im himself was an absolute master of all seven forms of lightsaber combat, mastering all seven of them in a few years, and spending decades perfecting each and every move and sequence of the seven forms of lightsaber combat. Kas'im had elevated his skill in every single form of lightsaber combat far beyond the level of mastery, yet Bane did not fall prey to this skillset or adaptation. Every time Kas'im altered his tactics and switched forms, Bane adapted almost instantly and continued to press his offensive advantage.
Bane's tactical capabilities are also being drastically underrepresented. It is claimed that Bane can only plan things with preparation, and that things don't go his way when thrust into a situation he is uncomfortable with, but Bane has demonstrated great tactical ingenuity. On Korriban, Bane was capable of quick thinking to work his way out of a situation in which three of the other Sith Lords had him cornered and unarmed, and was capable of utilizing a spontaneous maneuver to remove one of the other Sith Lords from the fight. On Lehon, Bane demonstrated the tactical capability to immediately adapt to any of Kas'im's changes in technique, sans Jar'kai, and Kas'im was a man who had spent decades perfecting and refining each and every move in the seven forms of lightsaber combat. Bane also demonstrated great thought and adaptability with Lord Kaan, immediately working out a response to Kaan's use of mind trick that would deceive him into believing that Bane was under his control. His encounter with the Jedi on Tython is a low showing for his tactical capabilities, but this is because Bane was blinded by the bloodlust of the orbalisks, something noted to no longer be a disadvantage for him in Dynasty of Evil, and Zannah noted that he had completely refined his style since that encounter. Despite the duel on Tython being a low point for his tactical capabilities (because of the orbalisk bloodlust), Bane was still capable of demonstrating great adaptability on the field of combat and tactical ingenuity, utilizing a feint to catch Raskta Lsu off guard and throw her to the ground, and Raskta Lsu was the best duelist in the entire Jedi order. Ironically enough, what was used an example for Bane's tactical failings in this video actually counteracts the point Evannova was trying to make with it. In Bane's duel with Zannah, he actually demonstrated tactical adaptability, switching the methods he applied, and randomly and unpredictably shifting tactics to catch Zannah off guard, driving her towards a location of his choosing. Also in Bane's encounter with Zannah in the Stone Prison, this also demonstrated his tactical capabilities and adaptability, as the angle he was working in the stone prison prior to encountering Zannah was splitting his attention between misdirecting Zannah away from him to avoid an encounter with her, and tracking down Serra at the same time.
And the argument that Bane's force abilities only marginally exceed Hoth's is also fallacious, given the FAR greater magnitude Bane has demonstrated. Bane's telekinesis was such that he leveled the Rakatan Temple of the Ancients well before his prime in regards to his Force abilities, and he demonstrated force lightning with the intensity to be capable of incinerating targets. While it stands to reason that Hoth is a powerful warrior, and while Hoth's usage of stasis field is insanely impressive, and the upper limits of his power is not established, it does not make sense to assume his level of force power is even close to the level of power Bane has at his disposal.
At the end of the day, Hoth is an unfortunately underexposed and underrated character, and I am rather impressed with the ability he has shown in his brevity of appearance in the mythos, but he is hardly a combatant even remotely on Bane's level at his peak.
EvanNova95, READ THIS!
***** Your new best friend! :) Emperordmb I agree with your deep analysis!
OHHHHHHHHHHHHHH SHIT Emperordmb from KMC is here too an actuall debater mmmmmmmmhm this aint good. Evan run!!! This guy will destroy in debating feats vs featless. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm NO NOO!!! RUN!!!
WOMBO COMBO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Cesaro Guy Lol what? --DarthAnt66 of KMC
Well done Evennova as always u outdo yourself in analyzing n concluding the outcome bravo sir
Very, very nice research and clips for Hoth. The Republic dark age is my favorite era, and you nailed it. :)
lol When Bane-Sithari sees this he's gonna have a cow. I think you put Bane's dueling abilities in a pretty objective and accurate light though.
You did downplay his skill with Soresu, but the conclusion was based around methodology and tactics which painted a very solid picture of their compared capabilities as duelists.
Another great video friend, loved it as always. I'm reading the comment section and I think it's fair to say the tides of Bane have already been unleashed :)
I firmly think you guys got it wrong with the verdict, as I explain in detail in my crazy long comment on this page, but you guys constructed one hell of a good argument for Hoth!
These guys descended on this video faster than The Inquisitor did last night!
Of coarse!!!! To me this was just a stunt you guys pulled so the community would respect Hoth and so that people would take him seriously as a combatant. Im Pro Bane but I know his limits and weaknesses, but i refuse to go with (points/theories that simply put aren't their.) Any way for better or worse its just a push so people would recognize Hoth. (Even though Hoths powers are unknown.)
Buuuut if I you guys can Say hoth is capable of this verdict then. Darth Nihilus is better than Sidious in a lightsaber duel.
This is awesome timing I literally just finished path of distraction last night. Thanks Evan
Damn! This came out of nowhere. Thanks for sharing this episode, bro. I had no idea who Lord Hoth was, but it sounded like a fun match up.
This verdict is, by far, one of the most outrageous I have ever seen. Darth Bane is not a textbook duelist. While hoth does have more experience than bane, and least 99% of the sith lords hoth faced were nowhere NEAR as skilled as bane. We actually have no idea how hoth would fair against an opponent of equal or far greater skill. Your video of darth bane vs. darth krayt perfectly did a breakdown of bane and I have to agree that Krayt is superior to bane. But in this video, you made us all assume you were definitely comparing to bane post-orbalisk armor. (If you compared them when he had his armor, its a darth bane blowout. If you compare them pre-armor then its interesting and the only way hoth has a chance of killing bane). When darth bane had his armor, his fighting style was basically to just go sheer offense, with only a slight chance his armor could be pierced, bane had absolutely no reason to be conservative and focus on defense. However, after his armor was removed, bane spent the next decade refining his style to the point where he, in a rainstorm, could use form III to not get hit by a single frigging raindrop. Is that what you call textbook? I believe you said bane was not adaptable. That is one of the biggest lies I've ever heard you say while totally serious. Bane, without his light saber, was able to trick Zannah into attacking him with pure martial abilities rather than focus on sith sorcery, allowing Bane to escape alive. This shows a great deal of cunning and ADAPTABILITY on banes part. Also, a brief note on force abilities, darth bane COMPLETELY outclasses his opponent, as hoth has never been observed performing amazing feats with the force as bane has. In fact, there is no evidence that lord hoth possesses ANY force abilities that are not average for jedi. I get that you wanted to honor lord hoth, I personally like the character and have nothing against him, but you should have chosen someone more evenly matched with hoth, rather than someone of bane's caliber, if you wanted to make him win. Then every one might think this versus video is done perfectly and not just think you're a darth bane hater or completely biased toward lord hoth. Sorry if I came off a little mean, I was just voicing my opinion.
+Jedi Root You are certainly entitled to your opinions but there's a few things I'd like to point out: 1) He DID acknowledge Bane tricking Zannah into attacking him with her lightsabre. He also pointed out that while it did demonstrate his cunning and intelligence the fact remains that Bane had around ten minutes (or thereabouts) to come up with that plan. Plus that was against his own apprentice, someone he'd trained personally, whose strengths and weaknesses he was intimately familiar with, and whom he'd expected to fight for twenty years, plenty of time for him to consider all kinds of different scenarios. There's nothing to suggest Bane could pull off anything similar against someone that's a complete unknown to him. 2) Hoth could put people in stasis with his mind. How many average Jedi can do that?
do u really think that bane wouldnt be able to shrug off hoth's mind attack? he still is the better duelist and COMPLETELY outclasses hoth in terms of a force user
+Jedi Root Given that Bane was only able to break out of Farfalla's stasis field because he was juiced up on orbalisks I'm confident that if Hoth used it on him it would at least slow him down. Better duellist? Doubtful. The chess metaphor used in this video described it perfectly. Hoth is the grandmaster who has played a gazillion games while Bane is a prodigy who's only played a few. Whatever he does Hoth will see it coming a mile away because of his far greater experience. Bane may have the edge as a Force user but I feel people put way too much stock in that. Big, flashy displays of power aren't everything.
Wright805 might i remind u that farfalla was under the effect of battle meditation and would most likely not have been able to catch bane in the stasis field had he not have been. kas'im was just as experienced as hoth, (maybe even more) and bane still was thoroughly beating him before kas'im pulled out dual blades. the difference between the two is that hoth does not wield dual blades. if bane can force a duelist of kas'im's caliber to perform a last, desperate feat, then bane could sure as heck defeat hoth. lets not even MENTION bane's superior force abilities. darth bane wins 9.5/10 times
+Wright805 I can't agree with that statement. EVERYONE that Bane fought in PoD was more experienced than he was. As were the Jedi he fought in RoT. Zannah is pretty much the ONLY Force sensitive with less experience than Bane that Bane personally confronted. I have a very hard time believing that Hoth was significantly better than Kas'im, if better at all, and Bane had no trouble dealing with Kas'im as a lightsaber duelist, until Kas'im whipped out his Jar'Kai-- an advantage Hoth doesn't have.
Hoth killed a ton of Sith, yes, but he has NEVER been shown actually pitted against any of the Brotherhood's top tiers. We never see Hoth fight the likes of Kaan, Kas'im, Qordis or Kopecz. Practically EVERYONE Hoth killed were Sith grunts, fresh out of the Academy. He has never been shown in a serious lightsaber duel with any of the Brotherhood's best, and Bane was MILES ahead of any of the Brotherhood in terms of lightsaber combat and force aptitude EXCEPT for Kas'im who deliberately tailored Bane's training to ensure Bane would be weak against him.
There is no indication Hoth was any better than Kas'im or Kaan. Bane would slaughter him if they battled.
I have to strongly disagree with your verdict I believe Lord Hoth Vs Bane would be much like Ka'sim vs Bane, Bane would take a small early advantage but Hoth would soon come up with a brilliant tactical way of overpowering Bane, realizing this Bane would retaliate with his incredible application of the force obliterating Hoth in an expression of pure dark side power please respond if you see this •-•
Hey just wanted to say I really appreciate all you do man, keep it up!
Omg thankyou for this one it has been bugging me so much!!!!!
To quote Captain Rex, "experience outranks everything."
3 things. 1. You didn't take into account banes augmented speed, so fast he could avoid being hit by any drop in the rain. 2. He has experience in the heat of war just like Hoth, he was a soldier before being brought into the academy. 3. Your argument about Hoth being a superior martial artist because of his mastery of all forms is irrelevant, he both faced his former master, who was also a master of all forms, and the hoths succeeding Jedi battle master. Defeating both of these.
I appreciate the effort in these videos, but you speculated to much on Hoths behalf, and I think you're a little biased towards light side
That 3rd point is good, just because someone knows all 7 forms doesn’t mean they’re the better duelist automatically. Dooku was better than everyone in his time and he only mastered Makashi. Anakin was the best duelist during ROTS because he fully mastered Djem So, and Obi Wan was a great duelist because he mastered Soresu. All 3 could beat the Jedi Battle Master, who is a supposed master of all 7 forms, and they would beat them easily.
Wow! This was fascinating! For your next one, can you do Darth Talon vs. Tenel Ka Djo? I've never seen any Versus video with her in it.
Such an appropriate match up. Once again Evan you entertain nerds of all types (including me :) )
Legend says, lord hoth does his push ups without even having to do it.
I think Bane was greatly underestimated. Bane was likely the greatest force user of his time and was the best sith combatant. This is how he was able to excel while at Korriban and the rule of two was at the core of the reason he wanted to create the rule of two.
while little is known about how hoth's force would shape up his stats in some role playing sites imply it would be close where force abilities are concerned
I knew I should've curbed my temptations to watch this, before I finished reading through the Darth Bane trilogy of books...
Another great production; it was fascinating to watch -)
Great match up Evan. I have interesting suggestions for you to consider:
Jerec vs Revan
This is a shocking verdict. It is a Darth Bane curbstomp.
Your previous analysis of Darth Bane is so much more accurate than this one. There is no evidence that Darth Bane's moves are textbook in nature. Darth Bane never lacks experience, only time was when he faced Kas'im and was not familiar with dual blades. Even then, he compensated for this shortcoming as in the duel on Tython he was able to hold his own against multiple master duelists, one of which was wielding dual blades. So what if Lord Hoth defeated hundreds of Sith Lords? Darth Bane is on a league of his own. He has never faced anyone on Darth Bane's calibur. Lord Kaan is nothing compared to Bane.
Also, the part when Bane struggled to adapt is pure nonsense. The only time Bane REALLY struggled was when he was against Zannah's dark side tendrils, and even then he managed to evade most of them, as well as fiercely resisting Zannah's spells of insanity. Darth Bane is a highly adaptable duelist, and lethal in precision.
As with Force Powers.... it is a mismatch in favour of Darth Bane.
Darth Bane stomps this 10/10. This match is determined by how long Hoth can withstand before biting the dust.
Notice how I said that Bane has never been confronted by an opponent thats truly tested him in a FAIR lightsaber duel. The Battle on Tython was anything but an equally sided engagement.
Yes, Bane held off the combined force of multiple masters, however he was also wearing a suit that allowed him to simply take the hits from a lightsaber, heal wounds almost instantly, and Massively boost his strength in the Force.
In DOE, it is made clear that Raskta Lsu (The female Duel Blade wielding Weapons Master Bane Fought) would have defeated Bane if not for the protective power of the Obelisk Armor. Heck, even Darth Zannah herself states that Sarro Xaj (the large man with the Double Bladed lightsaber) had a more refined Technique then her master.
EvanNova95 I don't see how it was "made clear" as Bane's attention was drawn to one to two other opponents at the same time rather than just her alone (who I forget were also all three empowered by battle mediation). During that time Bane was fully relying on his armor to protect/heal him and his fighting style reflected that. But since you using Bane from ten years after that where he could use Form III to block or dodge all the raindrops from a storm till it passed is a clear sign of how his skills had developed since then. Obelisk Armor Bane and post-Obelisk Armor are two different beasts. In you Bane vs Krayt you mentioned how the Book of the Sith showed how Bane would have compensated and learned from his inexperience against Jar' Kai and how Krayt, a guy who would have had decades more experience than either Bane or Hoth would not have a had a significance advantage over him and only top tier Jar' Kai specialist would have posed that much of a threat to Bane. But now you go back and point out how this would be a weakness for Bane? Plus you kind of disregard the effectiveness of Bane's advanced Force powers against Hoth who we have almost little to no information about in that area because, 'well he would have had around power' ? What exactly am I missing here? I honestly don't care that you gave the victory to Hoth, but I would care as to why. Again, your Bane vs Krayt video was broken down perfectly and made total sense, this doesn't.
EvanNova95 Indeed. At the end of the day, Darth Bane is still a awesome and badass Sith Lord . . . but his prowess is a tad exaggerated by the fans. Again he is awesome but he is not a god. Hell even other characters more powerful/skillful then Bane, for example Yoda and Darth Sidious, are often still beaten because they were out maneuvered rather then beaten head on in a power match: Yoda lost his match with Sidious because he was tricked into overexerting and tiring himself out, while Sidious ended up dying multiple times due to both overestimating his own power (his 2nd death was largely due to him losing control of the Force Storm he summoned) and underestimating both his opponents or some other factor (like Darth Vader's paternal instincts kicking into full on Papa Wolf mode in order to save his son, in addition to Vader still having the strength to kill him).
EvanNova95 One thing that you forgot was that all of the Jedi during the Battle of Tython received battle meditation that pushed their prowess to new levels. While Bane did have the obelisk armour, he still have some exposed areas of attack such as his wrist and face, and the Jedi did attempt to take advantage of his vulnerable areas. Even if his suit could protect him from lightsaber hits, it's not like Bane sustained dozens of lightsaber hits that could have finished him. In short, Bane was not reliant on the armour and relied more of his martial prowess to withstand the Jedi assault.
As for Raskta Lsu, if Bane wasn't wearing his armour she could at best give him a hard time in a lightsaber duel, and get stomped in a force contest. And without the battle meditation, Darth Bane is clearly the superior duelist.
At no point was Bane at a disadvantage in duels after he wasn't wearing the armour. And Zannah's assessment wasn't reliable, she didn't know the full extent of Bane's abilities until her final duel when she was losing for the majority of the fight.
And regarding force abilities, its like comparing Qui Gon's Force abilities with Count Dooku's. Darth Bane's force powers were at a whole different level. So even if Hoth and Bane were evenly matched with the saber (which is false, Bane is clearly the superior duelist), Bane resorts to his force abilities and ragdolls Hoth.
Hmmmm maybe
Lord Hoth vs. Rahm Kota, both fought in conflicts caused by the Sith of their respective eras and both assembled armed resistance against those Sith and both led those resistance groups against those Sith. Example: Lord Hoth=Army of Light; Rahm Kota= Kota's Militia. Lord Hoth fought the Brotherhood of Darkness while Kota fought the CIS in the Clone Wars as well as the Galactic Empire during the Dark Times
with all your Versus could you do a top ten list of sith and Jedi as the best over all in terms of power on who you have worked with? I always loved those types of lists but i would be more interested in yours thanks to all your research
Awesome as always man, great job
Why not do Meetra Surik vs Obi Wan-Kenobi for season 5 as well as
Darth Zannah vs Lord Scourge
You forget that although bane did favor the fighting style that you mentioned he was trained in all the styles of lite saber combat and was able to seamlessly transition from one form to another. That being said I do agree with the final outcome strictly because bane's tactical prowess resides in the long game however I don't believe that hoth would be able to defeat him as easily as you make it seem more likely that the battle would have been more back and forth for a longer period of time than bane's frustration in not being able to penetrate hoth's defense and having to continuously change forms away from his comfort zone would cause him to try and power through hoth's defense but predicting this outcome hoth would be able to plan a counterattack defeating bane. Unfortunately I am a huge fan of darth bane and realizing that this outcome was inevitable was difficult to come to grips with.
Hello there, I really do enjoy your videos and gratitude for the effort!
However, I would really wonder if you could do videos about non-force sensitives fighting against Jedi, Sith etc. I really wonder, for since places such Orsis Academy did exist, there must be people out there, perhaps monks and alike who somehow muster another method or ofcourse the most known type who fight Jedi or Sith: The Bounty Hunters!
It would be great to have information on such people if they exist at all besides B. Hunters and have them pittet against one another in your arena!
I really do enjoy these videos thanks and possibly, someone with darth cadesus
I have 8 suggestions, you might want to take notes:
1. Darth Cadeus vs Darth Bane or Darth Reven
2. Jaina Solo Fel vs Kyle Katarn
3. Darth Nihilus vs Vitiate or Darth Reven
4. Sora Bulq vs Pong Krell
5. Leia Organa Solo vs Darth Zannah
6. Darth Sidious vs Darth Krayt
7. Darth Malak vs Darth Malgus
8. Sedriss vs Darth Venimous
Actually I'd like to add one more suggestion you might like: Luke Skywalker vs the Hero of Tython.
It's ok to have an opinion. :)
Caedus would kill Bane with ZERO difficulty
Dagberto Sala
BULL CRAP!!!!!!!
1. Caedus
2. Katarn
3. (vs Vitiate) Vitiate, (vs Revan) Nihilus
4. Bulq
5. Zannah
6. Sidious
7. Malgus
8. Don't know much about those two.
Just pointing out something that almost everyone misses in every VS. Video I've seen. Lord Hoth could not be a master of all 7 forms of Lightsaber combat because there was not 7 forms during his era. The 7th form was created by Mace Windu, thousands of years after Hoth's death. Drew K the author of all the Bane books even made this mistake when writing them, talking about the 7 forms in Path Of Destruction.
But back to the topic, there are exceptions of course but I've come to reason that the battle masters of the old Jedi order may not have been as skilled as battle masters during the years of the Clone Wars. Just because they didn't even know of the 7th and I may be wrong but even 6th form of combat. So it stands to reason that if to be a battle master you must master all forms, the battle master/s of the Clone Wars Era were more skilled than Hoth. Granted Hoth had much more time and experience dueling Sith, but lacking one or more additional forms it stands to reason that he would not be as skilled. Although it does not effect this match-up because Bane is in the same situation. Great video!
...*facepalm*.....yeah, it did. The seventh form was Juyo. Vaapad was Mace's custom variation on the style. Drew admitted that when Vaapad is mentioned in the first book that it was an error and that he meant to write Juyo.
Actually, the 7th form, Juyo, was in existence. You are thinking of Vaapad which was merely a more refined variation of the form that Mace had created. You could argue that Mace perfected the 7th form, but he did not create it.
What everyone else said, Juyo existed for a loooong time before this, Mace merely "perfected" the form and created a more advanced variant known as "vapaad" which can only really work for Jedi.
Ahhhh I see. My mistake.
It sure was great to see darth bane again. While I am disappointed that he lost, I honestly can't complain. All of your arguments were convincing and I actually find it ironic that bane lost once more due to the fact that his foe had more experience just like the battle with darth krayt. While bane is no pushover, he can't stand against a master "chess" player like hoth. Thanks for having reti4 on the show evanova95 and for a future versus video could you possibly either do darth sideous vs darth krayt or mace windu vs count dooku? Loved how much reasearch, passion, and time was put into this video. Thanks again evanova95. 😃
Thank You
While i'm a fan of both Evan and Reti4,if you haven't read the Bane novels go read them,Hoth has more experience at fighting low level warriors and has never been shown fighting anyone of note,Hoth would be 1 dead old Man!
Mark Fair My point exactly, but its his video so I wont stop him from expressing himself. However I will take what is fact or not To be honest to me this was this years Revan vs Luke. A character with feats/showings vs a character with no feats.
I knew when I first saw that vid I knew Luke would win because he is Luke he always wins(look up debates). This one was the opposite Bane(had showings of his skill) and Hoth(has no showings of his skill just off screen kills and or feats, Evan made him look like the squirrel girl of Star wars judging by his analysis)
Went through armies of Sith? Show me a page or book of him doing so?
Hoth is powerful in the force I want to see his power and not butting heads with my boy Farfalla all the time.
Also...................I wont go further. Ive made my point enough in the comments.
Despite Evan saying he is Unknown he still declares them as equal, contradicting.
Can u do more superhero vs and I wanna no who u think is a better force user Luke Skywalker or Darth Bane
I gotta be honest, there is nothing suggesting that Hoth is superior to Bane. Hoth is pretty much equal to, if not, slightly stronger than Lord Kaan, who essentially acknowledged that Bane would destroy him. We can’t speculate just how strong Hoth was, likely quite powerful, but in no way do I think this merits putting him above Darth Bane, who himself is one of the best duellists we’ve seen, and a masterful force user.
the creator (Evan Nova) is a biased creator who thinks TCW was good and that sith would always lose to any jedi, he never accepts a siths victory
Tell that to Shaak Ti
@@kagamiuchihathebeast5862 tcw was good. Don’t see what it has to do with this video. Especially considering that he’s gotten much better at making videos and has several where sith win over Jedi
@@ohgoditsdave2837 their is nothing good about tcw, it doesnt show any type of realistic war, so shut up and stop lying
@@brianjordan3841 shaak ti has nothing to do with the comment section so why bring her up?
I believe that if you are talking about Darth Bane during the events of "Path of Destruction", then yes the battle would likely go in favor of Lord Hoth. But if we are talking about Darth Bane in his prime, say during the events of Rule of Two, then Bane would most certainly stomp Lord Hoth.
Thank you evan, that was a wonderful match-up. For the future plz keep in mind
Quin lan vos vs. Eeth koth
Even piell vs. kit fisto
Nadaar vebb vs. k'krukk
I thoroughly enjoyed this video and this is coming from a Darth Bane fan. I definitely plan to read the rest of the trilogy, however, this video has piqued my interest in Lord Hoth. He just seems to reek of manliness! lol. Also, I always enjoy the music that you use in your videos. Keep up the good work. :)
The sith'ari losing against Hoth? No.
Agreed. Hoth is not a viable character to use in a format like this, he's too much of an unknown.
Hoth is a dissapointment.
@@tiredjediknight3110 Aka largely featless
Agree insane
Lord Hoth shouldn't have won this at all. This was the biggest shock I have received in a vs series. Hoth was the equal to kon and kon even knew he would get obliterated by bane. He knew not to challenge him... And I believe if hoth saw and felt bane's presence hoth would fight but knew he would die.
Cool match-up. I would never have thought of that.
Great video man, nice work!
Do you have a versus where a Sith wins? You seem painfully biased.
+NatureSociety Several: th-cam.com/video/C61Af637A38/w-d-xo.html, th-cam.com/video/EDdyEXe7F7w/w-d-xo.html, th-cam.com/video/9uTmvoaEe5c/w-d-xo.html
I have asked my question incompletely :P
Meant to ask any Jedi/Sith versus where a SIth wins. The one with Count Dooku vs Qui Gon is kind of a fluke considering he was his apprentice after all. Also, I laughed hard at your 2nd link. Yeah, it'd be real strange for a Sith _not_ to win when _both_ of the contenders are one. :D
Funny as mate funny as
+NatureSociety yeah i know, every single one of this guys videos is all jedi kicking ass. So biased.
+quiconjinn I've seen only 2. the rest are all jedi wins.
Bro bane would've destroyed him. Read the books lol
Heather Morgan hey! Lord Hoth defeated a brigade of Sith Pirates okay that means he's automatically better lol EvanNova95 Logic
So you aren't gonna give any information to prove your point ?
depends on how one interprets the information provided lol
@@jaylanmayhew589 it’s all very obvious in the books. Good trilogy too would highly recommend 👍🏻
Another great video as usual, Evan :)
Oh, Wollf is just going to LOVE this one! Well, his opinion aside, I greatly enjoyed it. Nicely done, as always!
***** Doing what exactly? Knowing you well enough to guess you wont like certain videos? What's so wrong with that?
I apologize then. I had no idea you cared.
-And yet you spend two months bugging me about something that obviously infuriates me- Sure thing.
Hey, I wasn't the one who came here and started the conversation.
I specifically did NOT tag you.
* Hears Reti4 talking about Hoth pulling a Kool-Aid man on Bane, pictures Hoth busting through a wall next to Bane screaming "Oh yeah!" and starting the fight as Bane drops a brick in his pants due to shock at the absurdity of it all *
Thanks for that mental image guys! As far as the matchup goes I do feel Bane is being a bit underrepresented here though I agree Hoth would be an encounter Bane wouldn't simply be able to bulldoze through.
Which Darth Bane is this? Are you talking Darth Bane from Path of Destruction, Rule of Two, or Dynasty of Evil?
If it's PoD Bane, I can agree that Hoth would win. Otherwise, orbalisk armor Bane, or post-orbalisk Bane would most likely win against Hoth.
I do thank you for this video, as it sheds light on a character whom doesn't have very readily available information about him, but I still don't agree that he'd win.
I agree that Hoth and Bane are approximately equal regarding their physical capabilities (sans orbalisk Bane, whom clearly outclasses Hoth in that category).
I do not agree with your comparison of their lightsaber skills however.
It's not fair to say Juyo was a fallback for Bane. It was more like simply another tool for him to use at his disposal and discretion.
Why not mention that his potentially still-existing weakness against dual-blade lightsaber-wielding opponents is irrelevant against Hoth; it shouldn't at all matter in this match-up.
Also, Bane's fighting style was not at all textbook. "When he was no longer afforded the protection of orbalisk armor, Bane adapted a more complex and unpredictable style that incorporated feints and defensive maneuvers."
That is not textbook to any of the forms. His style is not as you describe it: a combination, but clear separate use of Djem So, Soresu, or Juyo... it is instead a harmonious blending of the three. And I easily believe Bane's mastery of Djem So was superior to Hoth's. I think Hoth was the more well-rounded duelist, but he was not in the same league of the best Djem So masters in the Star Wars universe like Bane remains in, along with Vader (both ROTS and ROTJ versions) and Luke for example.
21:01-21:20... can you provide an example of this?
I do agree with your point that Hoth would have the tactical advantage, but I don't think it's as significant of an advantage as you seem to view it. I think, if anything, it evens up the playing field for Hoth, rather than places him above Bane.
31:33-31:37... how is Hoth in the same league as Bane as a force-user? Even after your comparison, it's clear to see Hoth is assuredly NOT at all in the same league. Sure, he's extremely adept at using what he has, but what he has doesn't compare to what Bane has, both in Bane's wider array of force powers and in raw power of the Force.
While I agree, Bane's advantage in the Force doesn't automatically grant him the victory against Hoth, it's clearly enough of an advantage to where they are not in the same league as force-users.
"And [Hoth] runs dead even with Bane in terms of raw Force power."
When has Hoth done anything to match the magnitude of Bane demolishing the Temple of the Ancients (and mind you that was in Path of Destruction, so it's reasonable to assume that Bane's potency in the Force only grew stronger.)?
39:35-39:48... how exactly would Hoth necessarily be able to "endure and power on through"? Bane's superior power in the Force is more than minutely so. (Refer to what I said/queried just above)
You make the point that Bane suffers from not fighting enemies near his level... but what about Hoth, why does he not apparently suffer from the same thing? I'd even argue that, while Hoth does have more experience, he has more experience specifically against fighting *multiple* enemies (most, if not all basically fodder and all-around unimpressive opponents). Bane on the other hand has more experience fighting in more intimate combat situations like duels, and against actually impressive opponents. In the first of 3 books about him, Bane fought evenly with Kas'im, one of the best Sith swordsmen the Sith ever knew, before Kas'im revealed his trump card, a style Bane had absolutely no experience against; he also, with some help from Zannah, fought and defeated 4 notable Jedi, 2 of which were the best duelists of the Jedi Order at the time (one being Raskta Lsu, the battlemaster after Hoth), and all of them being empowered by the Jedi Worrow's battle meditation, while Bane and Zannah were hindered by it.
In my mind, Hoth and Bane are approximate equals in physical combat, and while Hoth has the advantage in his more adaptable tactical approach to combat, Bane has much more of an advantage via the Force than you give him credit for. It'd be like Kas'im against younger Bane, in that, if Hoth doesn't use all his effort to defend against Bane's destructive force powers, he's pretty much doomed. I think, like Kas'im, Hoth could effectively defend against Bane's force powers, but especially because Bane is more powerful in his prime than in PoD, Hoth would not easily be able to defend against them, and it would wear him down. I think IF the gap in their respective force abilities was smaller, Hoth would win.
In other words, I think Bane's superiority in the Force ultimately grants him the victory. I did say above it doesn't automatically grant him the win, and to further explain that, I meant he doesn't just easily win because he trumps Hoth in the Force... because he doesn't. He is, as I've said, superior however with it, enough to where Hoth could not indefinitely defend against Bane's force powers without tiring and/or getting hurt to an extent... which would then be the tipping point in Bane's favor.
Furthermore, I think if Hoth were to defend against Bane's lightning for example, it would not be anywhere near how Kao simply deflected Vindican's lightning, it would be more like Windu using all his strength to defend against Sidious' force lightning (except obviously Hoth would be like a lesser Windu, and Bane, a lesser Sidious).
I am glad I stuck through the entire video though, because I learned a lot about Hoth and his abilities. I at first, upon reading the title of the video thought this was a stupid match-up, but by the end of it, I was convinced Hoth would give Bane in his prime one hell of a fight, probably his toughest (his fight with Zannah doesn't count because he was beating her, but she defeated him by using her trump card, the dark side tendrils, which she could only use on the force nexus of Ambria evidently).
Also what Emperordmb said:
"The argument that Hoth's adaptability and broad skillset as a duelist would grant him an edge in martial combat is completely unfounded and basically flat out contradicted. What is being forgotten is that Bane already drove back Kas'im in a lightsaber duel, prior to Kas'im whipping out Jar'kai. Kas'im himself was an absolute master of all seven forms of lightsaber combat, mastering all seven of them in a few years, and spending decades perfecting each and every move and sequence of the seven forms of lightsaber combat. Kas'im had elevated his skill in every single form of lightsaber combat far beyond the level of mastery, yet Bane did not fall prey to this skillset or adaptation. Every time Kas'im altered his tactics and switched forms, Bane adapted almost instantly and continued to press his offensive advantage."
I appreciate you analyzes, and while we may have differing options on the verdict, one of the goal of this video was to shed light on Lord Hoth, a character that I myself have always enjoyed, so at least i was able to do that :)
EvanNova95 You definietly put a LIGHT on hoth but.....why would you delcare them equal as force users? Theirs nothing on him......its like cutting blanks. Atleast you broke it down abit but.........I dont see Hoth as Noteworthy. also you cant declare unkown as equal to a known one in physical abilities thats just cutting it too far. Unless I can declare Darth Nihilus (an unknown) an equal to Sidious in sabers then im cool with that. Idk Hoth was amazing in his Jedi vs Sith stories and Pod but in a debate Hoth doesnt have feats to back himself up. But its your vid I could choose if this fact or not.
I wont let my fanboysim of Bane hate this vid, but the fact that I do this feats vs featless thing all the time wont let me like it either, beacuse im still trying to fight a good one. Until I come to terms withs facts,but Overall I love this Vid it made me appreciate Lord Hoth alot more
(even though I personally felt like you buffed him, but how else would people take Hoth seriously as a combatant right?).
Even though I LOVED FARFALLA more.
Farfalla ftw!!
I also agree with you:}
@@thecesaroguy2447 Hoth isnt equal in the force to Bane, Bane is the chosen one of the sith and for the most part a self taught sithlord, Lord Hoth was at the top of the jedi at the time, but nothing suggests he was close to Bane level or capable of Bane tier feats evan clearly highballed Hoth.
Gotta say, Oogways theme was a perfect fit for the jedi lord, and for jedi as a whole, very nice choice.
What is that music for your opening for the characters, it really is good.
My biggest gripe with this video is that your whole point that Bane lost was because of lack of experience, when it came to lightsaber duels. Yet the force users you hold in such high esteem, also have that in common. Yoda, Sidious, Mace Windu as well as the other Jedi Masters from that era. You are clearly biased, you don't respect the power of Old Republic force users that much. This shows in your match ups ( Darth Malgus vs Mara Jade) ( Revan vs Luke) (Vitiate vs Sidious) ( Darth Bane vs. Darth Krayt)
Despite what I have just said, I enjoy all the Verses Series you and your friends do. I'm a political science student so I enjoy to debate. Good job and keep it up!
Yeah, this guy is just another prequal triology/NJO wanker who thinks the likes of Darth Maul can ragdoll people like Revan. lol.
I'm going to cover these one at a time
Luke vs revan this was one of his first matchups and do you honestly think that revan can beat grandmaster Luke?
Malgus vs Mara he explained that in a straight up fight Mara would be destroyed and it was her tactical ingenuity that would win not her pure skill
Sidious vs vitiate OK outside his rituals what has vitiate actually done?
Krayt vs bane he said they were evenly matched but krayts unique force powers might be enough.
Also keep in mind that he pits these against some of the most powerful of all time while you act like they are mere padawans
Also revan and vitiate were one sided from the start they are going up against the most powerful in history and are not that good themselves
And finally the whole "clone wars have no experience" cliche argument
They have regular sparring sessions which are normal duels without the threat of death so I'd like to see vitiate beat dooku in a straight up duel no force.
Also the thing is with the lack of experience mace Yoda etc they devote themselves to their training and study of the force while with bane that despite his strength is more of a hobby.
Also Yoda mace etc are pitted against others with similar experience while bane is going up against a war hero and long time battlemaster
@@blackt1gers308 First my friend Bane's personal development as both a combatant and as a sith lord is not a hobby to him.
Secondly its irrelevant whether Hoth is a war hero and his status as a battlemaster guarantees him nothing. Hoth has done nothing to indicate he has the ability to decisively defeat PoD Bane let alone Bane at the height of his power. In truth he's far too much of an unknown to even be used in a series like this
I enjoy your videos but this your worst verdict. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but you were using flawed logic and questionable data to state yours.
***** Read a wookiepedia on them both and you will get a reason why some are angry, then.....read All the jedi novels and hoth and the bane books then you will see why many hated this one.
I do believe that Hoth has better tactics and is a more skilled duelist my only problem is Hoth was never shown having any powerful force powers Bane on the other hand is like darth vader he has extremely powerful force ability.
slothshark Well, I believe Darth Nihilus is better duelist than Sidious, my only problem is that Nihilus has never been shown any other powers but giga drain. Sidious is godlike in the force.
Everyone, THIS. THIS IS HOW YOU VOICE DISAGREEMENT IN A COMMENT.
Evan will you make any video content about Star Wars Rebels?
Great versus video! I've actually been wondering about this particular match up ever since I read Path of Destruction.
In regards to a versus video suggestion, I've got only one that I feel would be a rather even match. Jax Pavan, from the Coruscant Nights trilogy and Last Jedi versus Ahsoka Tano. Ahsoka left the Order just before she could be Knighted, and Order 66 went down just three months after Jax Pavan was Knighted. Tano was trained by Anakin, Pavan was trained with Anakin, often as his sparring partner. I just really like the thought of this versus matchup. (However, if Pavan is granted the abilities he received from Ramage's Holocron, it's kind of a curbstomp.)
This is a joke...Bane kills Hoth's archrival before even reaching max power yet full power Bane can't beat Hoth. Just wow
+Hikou72 He didn't kill him by dueling him, he killed him by tricking him into killing himself and all other Force users around him, leaving only himself standing as the galaxy's sole Sith. In a direct fight at that point, Bane would've been absolutely slaughtered by Hoth. I find Hoth comparable with Malgus - they both live war. In a way, they ARE war. They fought so many battles that lightsaber combat became a daily thing for them. That's actually a match I'd like to see.
+tfl1997 In thr book it was stated that Kane knew he was no match for Bane physically or in the power of the force. Hoth and Kane were rivals implying that they were st similar power levels. If early Bane could beat Kane (Kane acknowledged this) how can anyone believe Kane's rival could beat a much stronger later Bane.
+Hikou72 Rivals doesn't per se mean equal power levels - rivals means that it's always those two up against each other. It means that they only acknowledge the other as someone to fight and no one else. I'm getting the feeling that if Hoth and Kane fought, Hoth would've wiped the damn floor with them. Like I said, I compare him to Malgus because his entire life he's been fighting a war. Bane hasn't fought near as much as Hoth, for whom warfare was like breathing. At that point, it doesn't matter anymore how powerful an opponent is, unless it's a power gap like between Hoth and Sidious. If your enemy has several decades of direct experience more, you're fucked. Simple as that. And besides, what you just used was ABC-logic. A beats B so A beats C too. What you didn't look at was the context in which this fight is happening.
+tfl1997 Kane has far more expirience but it was acknowledged that he still couldn't beat Bane. Given that a young Bane could fight Kas'im for all his years of expirience and exceed Kane's power so soon after first feeling the force there is no reason to believe he should lose to Hoth. At the end of the day we just don't know about Hoth very much. We know Bane was the strongest sith in the galaxy, we know he would later fight 2 expirienced and 1 noob jedi buffed by battle meditation and win in book 2. We know he could practice dueling in the rain without getting wet by book 3. We know Bane is FAR stronger than anyone else in the series. You can't just deciede that Hoth is stronger than Kane because you "have a feeling". You have to use the given information. I agree that Hoth would win against Kane too but I can't PROVE it because I have no way to back it up
To be fair, Bane killed Hoth's archrival through manipulation and deception, not combat.
Ah, baseless speculation. The joy of TH-cam debaters.
lol, you're trying to trigger both sides, aren't you?
I love your videos, EvanNova95 You rock! :D
That was awesome nice work dude :D
Didnt he duel the battlemaster of the jedi in the second book of the trilogy? I dont think you give him enough credit.
That was Raskta Lsu, she was a WeaponsMaster, not a BattleMaster, also as I've explained already Bane had his Obelisk armor in that fight, which gave him an unfair advantage.
He did duel Kas'im in the first book, who mastered all seven forms of lightsaber combat and spent decades perfecting every move and sequence of the seven forms. Before Kas'im switched to Jar'kai, Bane was driving him back, and adapting to whatever shift in form or technique Kas'im brought to bare.
***** Were they actually canonically better than Hoth? Was Hoth not dead during the period of that duel via the thought-bomb? If so they were probably not canonically "better" than Hoth, they were simply the best around at the time. And did it actually say she was the best duelist? Would that not make her a battle-master and not a "weapons-master" (I am admittedly unfamiliar with the title.)
Also I find it hard to believe Bane was effected by battle-meditation to any meaningful degree when he was hopped up on the equivalent to dark-side steroids/cocaine via the Armour, while the Armour itself is a very large significant factor that I think you are downplaying. Being able to shrug off lightsaber wounds, and heal quickly/passively from those that get through is an *ENORMOUS* (And quite frankly cheap.) advantage. The Jedi were battle-meditated but Banes armour very much evened the playing field if not actually tipping the odds in Banes favor. (Being able to passively endure typically lethal or at least instantly maiming attacks while being able to implement those attacks yourself with full effectiveness is a *very* big deal.) He would have died several times over in that engagement if not for the armour and that's a fact, while Zannah did apparently admit one of the Jedi present was a better duelist than her master even. : / He may not have hit his prime as a duelist then, but I don't think he improved to any greatly significant degree when he did.
I do think Evan downplayed Banes skill with Soresu, but overall the general conclusion which was based around tactics rather than technical refinement made a lot of sense to me.
GreyFensir Wulf Raskta wasn't explicitly stated to be superior to Hoth in lightsaber skill but the descriptions of their abilities make's it pretty solid. Hoth never demonstrated the almost supernatural levels of skill that Raskta did. This may simply be because of his minimal exposure, but the point still stands that he never demonstrated skill even close to hers.
Emperordmb So was Kas'im. They were pretty evenly matched as I recall it. Bane won because he was crazy stronger with the force.
You underestimate Darth Bane you did it here and you did it with Darth Krayt,
there doing it of the book not after that book
+Conner Gilley Darth Bane is a monster. he would slaughter.
But bane is blind man in combat with out knowing he going to be in it
What? Lol
+Carson Bader If that were the case, he would've been slaughtered by Sirak and his goons in the archives when they ambushed him with no lightsaber.
The idea that he needs preparation to fight effectively is completely unfounded speculation that contradicts several known instances of Bane being ambushed and turning the situation to his favor despite this.
Glad you made this fight. I really need to revaluate Bane as a duelist apparently. I had always viewed him as on par with the likes of Krayt or Tenebrous.
Amazing dude!!
But could you possibly give me a way to contact you in order to ask for advice on a project I'm working on? If not I get, but how about
Saesee tiin vs. quinlin vos
I'm very behind the times but:
Lord Khan admits that Darth Bane would annihilate him in Chapter 19 of Path of Destruction, and Bane at that point is not at his full power.
When Hoth is considering entering the Thought Bomb chamber alone he admits that he doesn't think he can take Khan one on one.
Even without that, all of Hoth's abilities are sheer speculation. We only have real concrete evidence for Bane's and they are ridiculously good. He's not Sideous, Luke Skywalker of Mary Sue Revan no. But he IS top tier. And he would annihilate Hoth. With difficulty, yes, but he would kill him.
Just look what he does to Cordis, one of the top Sith Lords of his day. He crushes him with the force, as in not figuratively, he ACTUALLY crushes him without breaking a sweat.
I really like your videos but I've yet to see a Sith beat a Jedi. The Jedi are heroes because they face the Sith even though the Sith are more powerful, they pull out circumstantial and incomplete wins in books and movies when they do win. I respect that you really like Jedi over the Sith, but some of these results are a bit absurd.
Keep up the videos though, they are entertaining :)
Khan is nothing compared to Hoth.
Eh. Bane would destroy Hoth!
crisco9071 bane did destroy hoth with the thought bomb at ruusan, a tactical win
True, I was thinking purely lightsaber battler.
Technically lord kaan did
crisco9071 I agree, the Sith’ari can’t lose to Hoth lol 😂
Hey Evan can you do Darth Malgus vs General Kota????!!!!....PLEASE
I completely agree with your verdict. I actually thought about this duel already and when I saw the video title I was anxious to hear your thoughts. I too gave Lord Hoth the edge over Bane.
this is crazy, Bane would win. this dude is incredibly biased.
he does have his weaknesses
Jamie Suarez so does Hoth. WTF is your damn point???
+Al Dawg (A-Gamer) my point is that just because someone is powerful doesn't mean they're going to win every time
+Jamie Suarez take superman for example
Jamie Suarez So what
Predictions for the match is that Bane will win!
And I was wrong.
You shouldn't have been.
I thought bane would win too your not alone
Can u start putting the books you used for the video in the description? I want to read them.
Love the music. Is it Kung full panda lol that's okay cuz it's great
it goes good with Lord Hoth
Calling it. Darth Bane.
William Henning oh boi
To be fair William should not have been wrong on the final verdict. Bane would unquestionably win based on what is factually known about both characters.
Really? Bane would win, he's so fast with his lightsaber he deflected every raindrop on a rainy forest
Can you do a vs video with Darth sion?
When more information comes out you should do a match up between starkiller from "The Force Unleashed II" and adult Ahsoka Tano from "Star Wars Rebels".
bullshit Bane stomps
***** Oh but haven't you heard? Hoth is the best Lightsaber duelist of his time.
And he can adapt to anything Bane throws at him.
These baseless claims brought to you by EvanNova95
Hoth doesn't even has feats to suggest that Bane wouldn't kill him like he did Qordis in PoD.
wolfmaster7 W
Hi weird question what music did u use for Lord goths intro thanks
"Hou dear u? Bane wood like totaly destroi Hot." said every troll watching this video. Good job on this one. I never expected Lord Hoth. He was interesting in the book, but I just didn't think there was enough info on his skills.
To be fair you were correct. There isn't enough information about Hoth to accurately use him in the versus format
Epic man, just epic.
Oh this is gonna hard than a champ!!! Seriously you've got to use Valethine Farfala next or that battle master that Bane murked on Typhon!
Since The Inquisitor is Dead, please do a Versus Series about Him.
Great video
Love the video Master Evan. When you said the the comments will be terrible I just yelled "damnit Lord Bane"!!!! I love Darth Bane, but never the less, a fantastic video as always. I would love to meet you and the Force council one day. Also, what is the song at the end of the video?
Darth Sarres out.
Great video, but what gets me is the inconsistency between the Bane featured in this video and the Bane in the Bane Vs Krayt video
The reason there is an inconsistency is because Evan is trying in this video to highlight Hoth to his audience. That's the point of the video for some reason. The problem is he's doing so by both greatly exaggerating Hoth's capabilities (and simply making assumptions he can in no way prove or even reasonably infer) and downplaying Bane so the match up appears more even than it actually is in reality.
The cool thing about this video is that it game me good insight on both character
I'd recommend reading the books they're featured in if you want to understand the characters.
Great video. I've been a fan for quite a while, and I have a versus series matchup idea if you're interested.
Jaina Solo-Fel vs Lord Starkiller as depicted in the dark side DLC in the force unleashed.
Hope you like the idea.
can you do a video of revan vs sidious?