Versus Series Darth Bane VS Shaak Ti Hope You Guys Enjoy and #RespectShaakTi I don't own the movie footage in this, Star Wars is owned by Lucasfilm, Fox, and Disney.
I sense a disturbance in the Force..... It's as if thousands voices cried out in both praise and scorn at the preview of a Versus Match and then after much anticipation were suddenly...........silenced. In all seriousness, I really hope you guys enjoy this special match-up. I put ALOT into this one and I am VERY VERY SORRY for the many delays on this project.
“There are two key forms of lightsaber combat a Sith must master: Strong style and Fast style. The latter emphasises footwork, speed, precision, and acrobatics.” - Darth Bane, Book of Sith; The Rule of Two: Lightsaber Combat (page 82). I think Bane would not be too surprised by Ti’s combined Makashi and Ataru style since his description of the Fast style (a style he himself likely formed when he streamlined the six Jedi forms into two Sith styles). He has also faced opponents that have used Makashi or Ataru during his time as a Sith apprentice: fellow apprentice Fohargh, who had began their sparring match with Soresu switched to Makashi midway through their duel; while his lightsaber instructor had demonstrated a deadly mastery of Ataru and Jar’Kai during their fateful duel on Lehon. Of course this is purely my own speculation based on his previous lightsaber combat experience and his description of the Fast style in the Book of Sith. The following is my own theory into which classic Jedi forms were used in the creation of the two Sith styles. Fast style: Makashi, Soresu and Ataru Strong style: Shii-Cho, Shien and Djem So Shaak Ti is essentially using the offensive variation of Fast style, in stark contrast to the tactics employed by Bane’s apprentice, Darth Zannah. From a technical point of view, I don’t see Shaak Ti having too much of an advantage over Bane. She does however have an advantage in experience. In my opinion who would win in a duel? I’m afraid I must concur with Evannova95 and conclude that the fight would be a draw. Shaak Ti may have speed on her side but Dynasty of Evil era Bane has achieved a mastery of Soresu that can provide enough defensive coverage to nullify that advantage. Both may even throw in a punch or kick occasionally. This would be a marathon fight rather than anything hard and fast, despite the move sets both combatants employ. I see the fight playing out in a similar fashion to Shaak Ti’s confrontation with Grievous and his MagnaGuards on Coruscant in the 2D clone wars micro series, with Bane pushing forward with a strong yet steady offence, making use of the defensive Soresu to parry Shaak Ti’s stabbing counters. The fight goes on, and the longer it goes on the more impatient Bane becomes. The fight goes on, and the longer it goes on the more tired Shaak Ti becomes. The final question therefore is, who falters first? Will Bane leave an opening in his impatience to end her once and for all? Or will fatigue cause Shaak Ti to present an opening no Dark Lord of the Sith could resist? I love revisiting these older videos. The attention to detail is fantastic and I appreciate the effort you all put into your versus videos.
Shaak Ti’s style combination relies on the opponent to be weak to either speed based acrobatics or precise strikes that Pierce a weak defense. If Ti uses Ataru Bane goes on Defence and tires her out. If she uses Makashi, Bane breaks through her defenses with strength. My vote is on Bane’s more measured style rather then Ti’s blitzing.
There is very little in the Bane trilogy that suggests Bane was dependent on familiarity with the forms of his opponents. I think Evan's interpretation is flawed. He never "studied" his opponents before engagements. And it's not like other fighters won't struggle against something they have never seen before
It's very interesting to point out that Luke Skywalker came to the same conclusion with the added Medium style. Mind you Luke Skywalker is like the top 3 greatest lightsaber duelist of all time with the likes of Tulak Hord and Exar Kun. So the fact that Darth Bane was able to discover Strong and Fast style that Luke also discovered must mean what he states is very much so valid. Also Luke and Darth Bane are both Masters of Djem So with Luke being stated to use Djem So as the back bone of his lightsaber forms. Which based on the Jedi academy games I can solemnly state what these 3 forms were based on. For Medium Style it was Djem So, Shii-Cho and Niman. As it was not only the basics but well balanced and was good to not only fall back to but was very versatile. As all Jedi before had learnt Shii-Cho and Niman due to it being compulsory. So it's nature being one where you can fall back on due to it's Shii-Cho nature and being versatile due to it's Niman nature makes alot of sense. For Fast Style it was Djem So, Ataru and Soresu. Oddly enough in the game it was the best at defending against blaster bolt with it's insane movement however it had the least amount of range when it came to hitting someone and was most likely based around Obi-Wan's lightsaber techniques. Lastly strong style consist of Djem So, Juyo and Makashi. This was powerful in the game as it had the most range due to you just lunging aggressive with a wide swing or piece attack. This range most likely came from the footwork of Makashi but also the falsehood and yet unpredictable chaotic nature of Juyo as it would seem to leave you wide open if you didn't know how to properly use it as it was the most difficult to use out of the 3. However it was apparently considered the ultimate counter against Fast form making it the ultimate dueling form when it came to pure lightsaber as the strength of djem so was given more control of the lightsaber duel with Makshi and yet it was hard to counter due to its Juyo nature. I get that I didn't include Shien or Vapaad but Luke never got to learn Vapaad as far as we know and with Shien it was either included in all of the 3 forms like Djem So or not there at all as I couldn't really tell from Jedi Academy unfortunately as there weren't really any signs of it other than blaster deflecting that all the lightsaber forms had if you timed it correctly. I do not know however if Darth Bane viewed strong and fast style the same way Luke did but it was most likely considering he would probably look down on the Medium form as Shii-Cho and Niman don't really specialise in anything. Either way I do think Darth Bane would beat Shakti in a pure lightsaber duel as his lightsabers form Djem So seems to be somewhat on par with Vader's(who is 6"2) or Malgus's(who is 7"2) Djem So which given Bane is (6"5 in Legends 5"7 in Canon) I do think Bane would win in a lightsaber duel whether it be barely or not.
you don't give enough credit to Bane for being able to wear the armor, I read it was extremely painful to wear the orblisk armor. I don't think most Sith could have endured the pain. great video, big fan of bane
Shaak Ti is a true Jedi master who massively underrated. Her skills in Makashi where described as similar to Dooku himself in the Revenge Of The Sith novelization. She compensated for all the weakness of her unique hybrid light saber form and has total mastery of the light side of the force.
If anything she's become VERY overrated. Her skills in Makashi are not similar to Dooku's. In that same passage Depa Billaba's skill with Vaapad was mentioned with Windu's and I think we can all agree that Windu's skill with Vaapad is dramatically above Billaba's. Shaak Ti hasn't made up for all of the weaknesses of her Forms. Her use of Makashi and Ataru is supposed to let her be mobile and prevent head on engagements which falls apart if she's fighting someone like Anakin, Maul, or Revan, each of which are faster and stronger than her. This is why she didn't do well against Grievous and still wouldn't have even if she wasn't tired.
@Tom Cross What feats does Shaak Ti have that put her even close to Anakin outrunning the vacuum of space, outrunning Dooku and Ventress at the same time or filling up Dooku's entire field of blue which is something Grievous hasn't been able to do? Many of those abilities she was only able to use on a lightside nexus on Felucia. Both Anakin and Obi-Wan out preform her in durability. And it wouldn't matter in a contest with lightsabers that are touch based weapons. And her knee feat isn't anything a Jedi Padawan couldn't do on a Super battledroid in the Republic comics which is more impressive considering they don't have heads in the first place. Maul is faster than Shaak Ti. In SOD he was able to keep up with Mace Windu, outpace Grievous, and was fast enough where Sidious couldn't speed blitz him. Mace surpasses her physically, in the Force, and has an advantage in sabers. Her Makashi and Ataru only works if she's faster than her opponent which wouldn't be the case with Anakin, Maul, or Grievous. And Yoda can create openings, Ti doesn't have any showings that put her offense as high as Yoda's that silly. Windu's been known to up play people and was massively hindered through that fight. He had endured multiple weeks of the jungle, gotten fucked up by Kar Vastor, had cuts on his neck, wrist, and knees, and had been stabbed through to gut. In feats what places Shaak Ti's Makashi among Dooku's?
@Tom Cross The standard magnagurads aren't as fast as Dooku or Ventress. And it's not specified how long it took her to get to Palpatine. And bullet trains don't move as fast as the vacuum of space. Kazdan Paratus also exploded of light energy. We know she was amped because it's been stated in the novel that Felucia's live energy amped lightsiders. Mace had Aayla's help which is still impressive and Maul alone has speed feats among Windu's. Maul fought Grievous 2 times and had a speed advantage. Not just their fight on the bridge. Sidious was not toying with him. In TCW he was but in SOD he legitimately saw Maul as a threat and wasn't able to stomp him. Mace has physical augmentation that surpasses Ti. I'm currently making a video with Mace in it and have gathered plenty of feats. I meant Maul and Mace in sabers > Shaak Ti. No you didn't lol I just countered them. Shaak Ti overall doesn't have speed feats among any of them. Legends Grievous would've have any trouble with Ti. Suggesting Shaak Ti's Ataru is near Yoda's is ridiculous. And her montrals are echolocation. Force users can sense openings in the Force already as per Mace's Shatterpoint or Anakin's precognition. Mace had just been fucked up by Vastor and I wouldn't call his multiple wounds and him being stabbed through the gut a "fleshwound". It went right through. 30 minutes? Where is the length of the fight stated? And she didn't do well until she got ahold of the electrostaff so her success in that fight wasn't because of Makashi. Again, where is it stated that they fought? You also claimed in another post that she penetrated his Force barrier but haven't given a source. And Ki-Adi Mundi has Makshi and Ataru as well. His Ataru's only second to Yoda's which makes sense considering Yoda personally taught him and his Makshi was able to outmatch Ventress's.
Wow Evan I gotta give you props, not many people would attempt to make a Versus match up that is over an hour long let alone 2 of them. You are certainly braver then I would be. I've only made 1 match up that was even close to an hour long and even that video was dicey at best. But I really appreciate the work and effort you put into these videos and you along with the rest of your Jedi council continue to encourage to keep my versus series going. Keep up the amazing the work the more detail the better in my opinion.
I like the battle simulation in "novelization" format you have, and Reti4's voice and narration style fits the context too. Although I still want to confirm what happened at the very end; from the description it seems like Bane was prepping a finishing blow, he got blinded so he decided to create space to launch a Force attack, and Shaak Ti realizing she can't beat Bane decided to use that distraction to GTFO.
Holy shit... That narrative breakdown kicked some serious ass. That was genuinely well written; if someone had read that to me out of context and changed the names of the characters, I would have believed it was from an officially published Star Wars novel.
Wow, high praise. Thank you very much. It took an age for me to write it, about 8 hours for the narrative alone, so it's nice to hear it paid off, at least for some.
Loved the narrative setup at the end and Reti4 did an excellent job narrating it. I wish people would stop low balling Bane though, no he's not the most powerful dude ever but he's certainly among the best. As others have pointed out, just because he didn't get into lightsaber duels every other week doesn't mean he's at a disadvantage here. His familiarity with all the forms, training with Kasim, battle with Kasim (regardless of how it ended, and his fight on Tython all show how good he really is. And the fact that he was up against 4 jedi (2 of which were basically battle masters) negates the Orbalisk armor argument too especially when you remember how close they came at points to beating him anyways.
It is interesting how close Shaak Ti was to Bane. A match I would like to see would be with some of the older Sith lords. I would like to see Ajunta Pall vs. Marka Ragnos. Better yet, a video detailing the history of the Sith order. The older Sith are interesting in the fact that they are more akin to mages rather than warriors.
Man, above all else, the factual, concise yet detailed analyses, what I enjoyed the most was that novel description of the battle itself, very well orchestrated and intriguing. Hope you do more of those in the future.
Thanks very much for your encouragement, I really appreciate it. I'm definitely not good enough to make a living out of this though. :) It took me about 10 hours to write the verdict and narrative scripts, and another four to record the narrative. It still wouldn't be finished if Evan hadn't been driving me on.
+Reti4 You did an incredible job with writing the verdict and narrative scripts. Also, (this sounds weird) but if your voice was deeper, I would have wanted you to be the voice of Thrawn. There is something about a deep British accent that works well with Thrawn. At least for me.
Very well written fight, even if I do disagree somewhat with your appraisal of their respective abilities. I simply do not believe Shaak Ti has the capabilities to withstand a prolonged attack of Bane. After all, she couldn't even withstand Grievous in a duel. And Starkiller beat her even when she was stengthened in the force and was familiar with her surroundings and could use them to her advantage. And Bane is without a doubt a swordmaster. After all, he beat arguably the most proficient swordmaster of his age, even though he was trained by that same master and in a way that would allow him to defeat Bane. I'm sorry, I'm not a Bane fanboy, but I do not believe these two could even be put in the same league. In terms of physical ability, force power, training and experience (where you get your assumption that Bane lacks experience I don't know. He was in countless battles and duels against other force users, even more than Shaak Ti who would likely be more experienced fighting blaster wielding opponents.) Bane is superior to her. These two simply cannot even be compared.
sonic8005 That is likely. Even though they aren't weak by any stretch of the imagintion, new republic jedi simply aren't as strong as Rule of two sith. Remember that Sidious beat four council members at the same time (even though I choose to regard the fight displayed in the movie more as artistic expression); And you can't tell me that Sidious is that much superiour to all sith who came before him. While he was the last and per the Rule of two stronger through generations of sith disciples oneupping ther masters, even he couldn't take on four warriors of Bane's caliber at the same time. And that's exactly what EvanNova would have us believe: That those four councilmembers (two of which -Windu and Fisto - I would consider above Shaak Ti in skill even) were almost on Bane's level as fighters. I think people are simply fans of the new republic jedi and don't want to see that they have indeed generally diminished in power, while the sith have become stronger in secret, even though that was the plan behind implementing the Rule of two in the first place.
Windu is far more skilled then Bane, Mace would beat him quite easily. Mostly because at the time with his understanding of both the Darkside and Vaapad he'd be able to turn Bane's own power back against him. But in pure lightsaber skills Mace is far superior. However both times Shaak Tii fought General Grievous she was exhausted from battles first in the battle leading up to the destruction of their Clone forces, and the second by holding off a literal army of Magna Guards which again are all threats to a Jedi. (And both times she fought Grievous she fought the micro series one which is far more deadly then the one in the movie or in the TV show.) She is easily more skilled then Kit Fisto, Mace left her for a very specific reason, besides him she was the best chance of defending the Jedi Temple if he failed, Mace knew they had to move quickly to win, and they had to make sure that they had the best defense up if he failed. No one is arguing that the other three members of the council (that Sideous killed two of which were done through treachery as written in the book) were on Banes level they were distinguished swordsman however they were the best Mace had access too since he couldn't trust Anakin, and he needed Shaak Tii to defend the Temple as she was their best battlefield commander besides Yoda.
Crazyscotsman I disagree. Vaapad doesn't enable you to suddenly beat every sith you come across. It's designed specifically to even out Windu's weakness of loving combat too much, which destabilizes him and weakens his connection to the light side, not to defeat sith. As for lightsaber skills, Bane would be on par at least with Windu. Windu didn't beat Palpatine, Palpatine let himself be beaten by him. Which means that Windu was weak enough that Palpatine allowed imself to play around with him to make his bid to turn Anakin look more convincing. The founder of the Rule of two was ot so weak that he could be "quite easily" defeated by someone so inferiour to similar sith, even if he was the final master of the Rule of two. And you give Shaak Ti far too much credit. Even though her defeat at the hands of Grievous happened in the microseries, (it also happened in a deleted scene in RotS, btw), it still remains a source that is often seen as valid. And exhaustion is a weak argument, gven that the recuperating powers of the force and especially the light side, which every jedi can use, would have long evened out that disadvantage even if it had ever existed. Also, Grievous too fought a battle against the republic army and oher jedi before her; And he didn't even have the force to recuperate. And Kit Fisto is as good as her. He is a swordmaster of the order, only the likes of Windu, Yoda or Obi-wan could "easily" beat him. You honestly make it sound as if Shaak Ti was some kind of jedi goddess whose defeat at the hands of literally everyone we ever saw her fight was just a fluke on the part of her opponents. She may have been a good battlefield commande, but tht doesn't mean she's as excellent a fighter. And given that the rank of battle is Sidious > Dooku > Ventress > Grievous > Shaak Ti it's a bit of a stretch to believe she could actually be a match to Bane.
Beg your pardon but no, exhaustion is NOT a weak argument. Even with the Force Jedi still have limits to their stamina and will tire eventually. This is shown numerous times throughout the franchise. They have enhanced abilities but they're still mortal and are still subject to the limitations of any living thing, including fatigue.Claiming "well Grievous had been fighting too" is nonsensical. Grievous is a cyborg. He didn't need the Force to recuperate because he literally never gets tired since most of his body is mechanical. He doesn't have biological muscles to get tired.
Bane : Literally has armed disintigrated by sith sorcery and can still use essence transfer, is absolutely ravaged by orbalisk poison, was beaten daily by his father, miners and even his sith teachers, crashed a ship nearly killing him and relocated his own shoulder. Plus the literal agony of the orbalisks eating him alive for what, a decade? "Shaak Tii obv more pain tolerant than Bane"
@Tom Cross Cool, I didn't ask for a novel on Shaak, and only a few of those things talk about Pain Tolerance. I would say that surviving his own force lightning at the same time as being eaten alive literally from the inside by the toxin is more impressive than any of those individual feats besides maybe a lightsaber strike. I don't have an issue with Shaak but as I said I feel the blanket statement she is "obviously" more pain tolerant leaves a lot on the table to discuss for Bane's ability to take a beating.
@Tom Cross Also, you realize over half that post was completely irrelevant to my point? What do echolocation horns have to do with pain tolerance? Or the fact that she is on the Jedi Council? We are talking about one thing, pain threshold, and none of that in any way is going to make her tougher than anyone else.
In regards to their physical abilities Ti is impressive but she is simply not as impressive as Bane. Regarding pain tolerance specifically Bane has this comfortably in the bag and it's worth noting that we have at least one specific source (the force unleashed campaign guide) that lists the Togruta species as having specific penalties to their constitution so unless there is a specific source that outright disproves that notion as a rule Togruta are in no way physically superior to humans at least in regards to their ability to cope with physical pain.
As of right now , Here is my top 10 Evannova95 Versus Matchups 10.Jaina Solo Fel VS Darth Plagueis 9. Jango Fett vs Pe Vizsla 8. Zannah vs Lumiya 7. Maul vs Tyranus vs Vader 6. Plo Koon VS Obi-Wan Kenobi 5. Darth Vader vs Darth Caedus 4. Obi Wan Kenobi vs Plo Koon 3. Lord Hoth vs Daerth Bane 2. Darth Sidious vs Vitiate 1. Luke Skywalker vs Mace Windu Hm: Oppo Rancisis /Quinlan Vos vs Vodo-Siosk Baas/Cay Qel-Droma, Lucien Draay VS Eeth Koth Bane vs Krayt
Qui Gon Jinn vs. Rahm Kota. Both of them have many similarities, mostly due to the fact that they were considered to be mavericks of the Jedi Order and both then had an impact on galactic history. Finally, there's so many similarities between the two.
I highly disagree with the assertion that Darth Bane lacked in combat experience. On Korriban he dueled CONSTANTLY! Only taking a break after the defeat by the Zabrak. Regardless of whether or not they used practice sabers and the force. His daily sparring with Kasim. And of course he sparred with Zannah daily. The beasts he battled, cultist, Assasination attempts against the force trained Umbaraans. He had PLENTY of displays of lightsaber skill.
@@ming45612 Where has that ever been established? Outsmarting your opponent and seizing victory would be applauded on Korriban and would likely earn you more direct study from the Sith masters. The Sith prize cunning and intelligence just as much as raw power or pure combative effectiveness. Yeah there's rules in the dueling ring to an extent but that never stopped multiple severe injuries occurring there and it never stopped Bane from murdering Fohargh there either. Dueling experience has a lot more value than you're implying and it's far more vigorous and dangerous in the Sith academy than it would be in the Jedi temple for example. Bane's experience in the ring is not to be discounted simply because it wasn't on the battlefield. The Korriban dueling ring can and has killed apprentices.
It's hard to do so, because Krell has never been involved in any lightsaber duels. Most of his notable feats were primarily battlefield fights, not single combat.
You mean how people low-ball Shaak Ti ridiculously due to the sole purpose that she lost to Grievous? Shaak Ti is a decent match for Darth Bane, even if she loses.
This is a masterpiece. Now that I think of it, it really reminds me of the fight between Crian Maru and Kaox Krul in the short story Darkness Shared. Seriously, have you read it? They're almost identical in theme. Speaking of which, would you consider using Kaox in one of your videos? I would like to see him against PoD Darth Bane since they are so similar. Keep it up!
I was shocked to see this super long video in my feed and I'm happy to say that I was not let down. This episode was AWESOME and I really enjoyed Reti4s audio-track along with all the edited scenes. Hopefully you can figure out the audio differences in the future but even so, I appreciated the heads up (maybe also put a heads up when it ends so that I have a second to turn the volume back down, please).
I for one agree with all the analysis provided by you on both bane and tii, and it gave me inspiration to think up a match I find kind of similar to this one, one I considered doing myself but I don't currently have the equipment to make it nor the skill to script it, so I gift it to you, how do you like the prospect of darth malak vs obi wan kenobi?
32:22 I really like your videos, but these are just some facts. You're seriously not giving Bane enough credit, not as bad in this video as in the disaster of Hoth vs Bane, but still. Darth Bane is a top tier duelist, like it or not and you argumentation why he isn't, is not accurate, because you take feats before his prime as absolute and the rest could mostly be said about every rule of two era Sith Lord, eventhough everyone we know about was at least on Ti's level. So Bane gets the edge as a martial artist, because Ti isn't on the same level as other top tier fighters like Obi-Wan, Anakin or Dooku. Giving Ti the edge in physical capabilities is also questionable, due to Bane's superior strengh, hight and at least comparable endurance. The only reason to give Ti the definitive edge is the lightsaber hit from Galen Marrek she survived, which I wouldn't count that much, because it's a clear exaggeration from the author. I mean seriously, if I understand that right, she would have sustained a lightsaber ranging half a meter through her stomach, which would either mean , that the blade would have impaled her or came from a shapener angle, which in turn would mean, that the lightsaber would pierce through her loungs, which is just ridiculus.
wolfmaster7 Bane is overrated. He is a skilled duelist but his power with the force is not to far above hers. She is far smarter with how she uses the force and has feats that places her amongst the greatest force users of her time. She was also able to handle Galen who is Banes equal in terms of raw power
I'm less than eight minutes into the video, I'm gonna place my bet on Bane on account of greater physical strength and stamina and greater skill with the force. Let's see if I'm right
On the physicality aspect of things, a lot of people have that train of though because look at Bane's size and muscles. But then you have to realize he is past his physical prime and dark side degradation hit him a bit. Shak Ti is not human, around the same age if not younger (light side of the force to limit effect of age), and her species gives her sonar, superior flexibility, and durability around the level of the armored truck that is ROTS Kenobi (tank is Vader, Malgus, Scourge, and guys like that).
I think most people underestimate Shaak Ti's ability with Tutaminis. Only the most high level applications of force lightning could potentially produce an energy output more intense than a lightsaber, if at all. And it's not surprising that she was unable to negate the kinetic force behind Grievous' blow as the amount of concentration and power required to block a lightsaber would be incredibly taxing, particularly given how exhausted she was at the time. Few in her position could have mustered the strength to block both aspects of that attack, especially from a combatant as physically powerful as Grievous. Point is, it seems to me that she has more than a 'limited' ability with Tutaminis. Otherwise I'm in full agreement with the rest of the video.
im just gonna flat out say it bane can basicly rape anyone exept revan vitiate nihlus the exile grandmaster luke yoda palpatine krayt malgus and abeloth
I'm.....speechless, left in nothing but awe and wonder. The anilitical analysis was perfect in every respect, and it makes me look at Shak Ti in a new way as well. Evannova95 and Reti4 words cannot describe how much I didn't want this video to end. The narration matched the beasts of the video perfectly and the script was flawlessly written WELL DONE. I would very strongly suggest doing more audio battles in the future as I love hearing you guys talk. Could you guys do an audio drama vs battle with Count Dooku vs Mace Windu? I would love to know what was going through their heads as they fought each other. :)
7:40 - The average lifespan of a healthy human being is around the same figure your providing for Togruta's. Humans physical primes last from 18-28. While Shaak might have been in the best physical shape possible for a 50 something year old she is still going to be out of her base physical prime. 8:35 - Continued fighting? She manages to keep from passing out from the pain and remain standing but she is not able to keep fighting after she is stabbed. Here's the passage after she was stabbed. "Her weakening fingers let go of her lightsaber, which deactivated with a click as it spun away into the sarlacc's mouth. She didn't look angry, just weary and in pain. Her red skin was suddenly very pale. He feinted toward her, but she didn't react in any way, except to look at him. "You are Vader's slave," she breathed, "but your power is wasted with him. You could be so much more." "You'll never convince me to betray my Master." He was shocked that she would try such a weak gambit again. Were these the depths to which the Jedi had sunk? "Poor boy." She winced. "The Sith always betray one another-but I'm sure you'll learn that-soon enough..." There was pity in her eyes as they rolled up into her head. She went limp and fell back into the mouth of the sarlacc." - The Force Unleashed. Disagree with your verdict on the physical section. Bane has better physical feats aside from durability/stamina. 12:28 - Would just like to note that it specifically mentions in DoE that Bane developed a straightforward and aggressive style based around the advantages his orbalisks provided him and that it's unlikely that he would have allowed Raskta to land the hits she did on him had he not possessed orbalisks. 22:00 - There are several factors you need to take into account in regards to the fight between Galen and Shaak. First off, Galen had just fought through an army of force users who could use the force as easily as humans breathe an oxygen rich atmosphere. Secondly Shaak had twisted Felucia out of balance causing it to become a Lightside nexus at once amping her and weakening Galen. Thirdly Galen and Shaak fought relatively evenly during the course of their battle with Shaak's only notable advantages coming when she abused her familiarity and control over the environment and ultimately when she completely disregarded her own defense in an attempt to overcome Galen's. In each variation of the fight Galen fights relatively evenly with Shaak until she abuses the environment or ultimately attempts a move that endangered her own life. On neutral ground I'd favor Marek in a fight against Shaak 10 times out of 10. The text is clearly Marek's own thoughts on the subject as well and it was a combination of Marek's reflexes, Shaak disregarding her own defense and Marek's own skill which ultimately lead to her death. 31:01 - The basis for your assumption that Shaak has adapted her forms to account for the weaknesses it holds against other forms is that she was a successful battlefield combatant. Given characters like Anakin Skywalker have made modifications to the Ataru form so that it can be better used for blast deflection I'm sure you'd agree that a lightsaber combatant of Shaak's caliber would have modified her own forms in a similar manner thus accounting for her effectiveness on the battlefield. I do not believe she accounted for the weaknesses her form would have suffered against Djem So because Dooku himself ( perhaps the greatest lightsaber duelist of his era ) was unable to do so despite encountering Anakin's Djem So numerous times throughout the Clone Wars before their fight on the Invisible Hand. 31:42 - I disagree here. While Shaak's baseline physicality is superior the Count has far greater force reserves and ultimately far greater stamina. 31:52 - Galen doesn't apply Djem So, he applies Shien and thus he would not possess the advantages someone like Bane or Anakin would have against someone like Shaak or Dooku. Well at least I was featured even if I yet again disagree with your verdict. 41:29 - The Campaign Guide states that any force user of significant power is capable of potentially shifting the alignment of the planet which is why the Felucian shamans diligently seeks and trains its force sensitive natives in fear that one of them will fall to the darkside and corrupt the planet. Shaak's death was not what caused the planet to tilt to the lightside. It was her death in conjunction with Maris Brood's fall where she corrupts the native Felucians and trains them in the use of the darkside. Essentially the loss of a presence that kept the planet aligned to the lightside and the introduction of a presence that tilted it to the darkside. 42:40 - Where did you get the 30 minute figure? Is that another guestimate on your part or official? 44:00 - I hope that was hyperbole because if not you should check out this formula for calculating water pressure. imgs.xkcd.com/comics/delta_p.png 45:00 - Paper machete force wall? Right, which is why Sidious so easily overpowered Galen in their force lock. Oh wait... "The Sith lightning spread to engulf the two of them, fueled by both their desperations. The Emperor tipped back his head and howled in lascivious pain. Darkness threatened to envelop the apprentice's mind, but he clutched to consciousness with feverish will. He had to see this through. He had to. A squadron of stormtroopers ran into the room, led by a limping Darth Vader. They raised their blasters to gun down the Rebels as they fled up the Rogue Shadow's ramp. "No!" the apprentice cried, dropping his defenses to strike one last time at the Imperials." - The Force Unleashed. Shaak landed her force push on him when he was crossing a pit of sarlaac teeth. 4.bp.blogspot.com/-rTnesolJSDg/VIxBkfCjPzI/AAAAAAAGcPU/CBY5KMUchUw/s1600/p1_41%2Bcopy.jpg If you look at the scan I provide above you can see that the gap lay between Shaak and Marek. Marek either had to leap the gap or cross a causeway to Shaak's side which is when she hit him with her force push causing him to fall amongst the sarlaac's teeth. Ahsoka also landed a force push in the season 2 finale of Rebels if you'll recall. Do you also believe canon Vader to have a "paper machete force wall?" -__-
45:16 - What other force user's defenses has Shaak overcome? 45:20 - Shaak has +10 force defenses. How can you interpret that as basic/mediocre/advanced when we have no basis for the upper limits that the ability could be scored at. Unless you have a similar sheet for a character like Vader or Sidious for comparison it's pure speculation on your part to suggest her force defenses can be measured based off this source. 46:55 - I'll note that the attack had no visible effect on Galen except to piss him off. Whether this is because of Galen Marek's "paper machete force defenses" or Shaak's own weakness as a combative force user I'll let you decide. :) Well, at least your verdict was correct.
I want to reply on your comment about Galen Marek and sidious in regards to galen's force shield critizeing evan's analysis. First off he meant on an average not on a one time display. one feat does not back up the character's skill. for example it's like someone says Sedriss is great at blocking and using force attacks based on the evidence of when he blocked Nefta's force magic and nearly choked out Kam Salusoar and another person says he was crud because Luke incapacitated him with a single force push it's a one time thing and does not really factor into a full time track record plenty of factors can play into various senarios and matches like these are not to be taken so literally because a lot of different wording is used whitch can throw off somebody who takes it to literally. second Force lightning has almost nothing to do with full body force barriers. Galen used totaminis (can't spell that force power properly) to counter palpitine's lightning not a full body force shield and even was talking about his overall track record with a full body force shield not totaminis which only apply to the hands a wrists. BTW the rest of your statements were pretty damn impressive and expansive A for effort :)
On average? Right before he faces Sidious he deflects a telekinetic assault by Vader. "His Master seized on his momentary weakness and hurled missiles at him from all sides, hoping to keep him off his guard. For a moment, it worked. Then the apprentice straightened and, with a sweep of his left arm, blew the missiles away." - The Force Unleashed. And the only times his force defenses have ever been breached were by Shaak in the TFU comic ( which I already explained was riddled with circumstances ), by Vader after he was stabbed through the chest ( I'm sure you can understand why this wouldn't accurately reflect Galen's ability to defend himself in a normal state) and for a moment by Vader in their final fight before he responded in kind. Regardless even if that had been Galen's only demonstration it would be sufficient representation of his ability to defend himself against force attacks in his prime. There's nothing on earth that would have prevented him from being instantly incinerated by Sidious's lightning unless he was capable of defending himself with the Force to an equal or comparable degree to what he is capable of doing in regards to combative force applications. Except in your example it would. You would simply scale Luke at that point off of opponents Salusoar easily defended or went on the offensive against. The quote I provided explicitly states that ""The Sith lightning spread to engulf the two of them," And that's how its depicted in both the game and novel. Then it goes on to say "No!" the apprentice cried, dropping his defenses" Specifically referring to the defenses that are allowing him to take in Sidious and his own lightning without being incinerated. Unless you're arguing defenses is referring to tutaminis and that Galen was using tutaminis on his entire body your argument doesn't stand. Thank you for the compliment. Edit: Here are the scans from the comic for Galen and Sidious's force lock. 1.bp.blogspot.com/-IbvfXLS0jWE/VIxBDMaBP3I/AAAAAAAGcKU/tgfCF2vHTV0/s1600/p1_119%2Bcopy.jpg
While i disagree with your comment/conclusion all these years later, i appreciate the quotes/passages you provided from sources like the tfu novel, which i for one never read and didn't know about.
Well done but too long. I prefer the shorter verdicts. Bane vs. Traya. Would be interesting because both share the same style of engaging their enemies and I think Traya is underrated by many people.
Wow. What a great battle. I completely disagree that Shaak Ti couldn't have won, but to each his own. Shaak Ti is a better duelist in my opinion, with near equal force abilities due to precision and variety. You hit the physical advantages on the dot. I believe Ataru's speed advantage would have made a bigger change. I loved the battle narration, and can't wait for the next one.
I have a suggestion or two: Darth Revan - pre-redemption - VS Darth Traya - who is the better Sith Master of the era. Obi-Wan Kenobi (ROTS) VS Darth Vader (ANH/ESB/ROTJ) - I really want to see who you think would win.
Her counter-offensive certainly, as he does in the narrative, but her straight offensives aren't intense enough or sustained enough to break through the level of Soresu Bane employs. It's only when he goes on the attack and she is in her counter-offensive element that she has the edge here.
@@jackb1783 zanna never got past bane's defense in either book (even when he didnt have his lightsaber). She even admitted she had no chance against bane with her light saber. She only won due to the extremely OP and unblockable dark side tendrils
I agree with the verdict, but I don't agree with how difficult you made it sound for Bane to get said victory. Still, the video was extremely well-made. Sora Bulq Vs. Kas'im sound good?
I think that the struggle was proper given that bane is not a on the fly tactician even though ti isn't much better however her sensory and agility are considerably greater than bane's it would only be enough to as written to run and survive due to bane's power
Because TH-cam keeps changing shit, and now you apparently can't do comments a certain length... multiple part comment: Evan, I'm so tired of the lack of experience argument against Bane. My simple counter to this is Sidious. Sidious, like Bane, had barely any real fights, yet no one doubts Sidious' skill with the blade. Plus, considering how the Sith are more ruthless than Jedi, reason stands that their training would be far more grueling and less forgiving (more like an actual fight) than Jedi training would be like. Oh, another counterexample would be freakin' ROTJ Luke. He had barely any fights, and on top of that, barely any actual formal combative training, yet he was challenging ROTJ Vader in their fight. While not as ridiculously fast as Luke or especially Rey, Bane was also noted more than once as picking things up pretty quickly. Basically stop already with the lack-of-experience argument. While it has merit in our real world, and in other universes (nerdoms), it pretty much has no credence in the Star Wars universe. 29:24 - You claim that ROTS Vader and Grievous "easily outclassed" Zannah. And it becomes increasingly clear just how much you underrate both Bane and Zannah! XD 29:28 - You claim that Grievous is not only comparable to Kas'im, but also "the more formidable opponent." Never mind what I said in the last thing (29:24); you just apparently underrate every Sith of that era.
When comparing Bane and Shaak Ti as duelists, specifically when comparing their fighting styles, you go back to comparing Bane's fighting style with Marek's. Not only are their fighting styles NOT the same (while their fighting styles both were comprised of Soresu and Juyo, Marek's 3rd and primary style was SHIEN, while Bane's was DJEM SO), but Bane is a far better duelist than Marek as well. A far more appropriate comparison would have been Bane to Vader. They're far closer in skill than Bane and Marek are, and while Vader doesn't really use Juyo, they both have two main fighting styles of a defense (Soresu), and an offense (Djem So). 32:42 - You claim Bane's "technical supremacy may make him EXTREMELY predictable"... you really know nothing, huh, Evan? Paraphrased from DoE: "When he was no longer afforded the protection of orbalisk armor, Bane adapted a more complex and unpredictable style that incorporated feints and defensive maneuvers." Once again, "Bane adapted a more complex and UNPREDICTABLE style..." You declared Bane... equal to Shaak Ti... in regards to dueling ability? -_- Dude, Kas'im's above Shaak Ti, and Bane was besting Kas'im until Kas'im pulled a fast one on him in PoD. Needless to say, this was well before Bane's prime as a duelist. In other words, Bane is well above Shaak Ti as a duelist, and his feats and accolades substantiate that. Way to omit his feat in the rainstorm, which is perhaps one of the best feats ever of speed, precision, and stamina, all wrapped in one. Your bias is just SO damn clear. You make it a point to say that, because Bane used a defensive barrier version of force lightning, that he likely didn't know Tutaminis, but then you credit Shaak Ti with knowing Tutaminis because she used force deflect/barrier against Grievous? Um... that's not Tutaminis, bro. Matt Chapman's right about the rest of you guys downplaying Bane.
49:42 - You suggest Ti could utilize her force healing in combat to improve her chances via survivability. Umm... when would she be able to use force healing IN FREAKING COMBAT? She does not know dark transfer, and therefore cannot heal almost instantaneously like Cade did in his fight against Talon. 51:18 - You claim, while the difference in their power is evident, it's not nearly enough to make the match one-sided. I agree to an extent. True, Bane can't simply attack her with The Force and instantly win. However, any force attack Bane employs against Shaak Ti will have Ti struggling to defend against it. You seem to mistakenly think that being able to defend against something means that it has no effect. If one can EASILY defend against something, this is true, but I don't think anyone except for Shaak Ti fanboys would say that Ti would be able to at all easily defend against Bane's force attacks. In other words, it would take more effort for Ti to defend against Bane's force attacks than it would take for Bane to employ them. This would wear Ti down, and Bane would certainly emerge victorious if it came down to a contest of The Force. It's my understanding that you wrote the verdict, but Reti read it, right? If that's the case, then... a question: Why declare them equal as duelist (which already is heresy), then in the verdict, paint Shaak Ti as the superior duelist? In your little postscript, you say why you did this match-up, even though you knew Bane would win, is because you essentially think people underrate Shaak Ti, and overrate Bane. While this is true, you conversely underrate Bane. While I've seen people inarguably overrate him by saying he'd destroy Sidious, you attempt and fail to counter-argue Bane being one of the best lightsaber duelists of all time. I mean, Kas'im was an absolute MASTER of all 7 forms, and was hailed as perhaps the best Blademaster the Sith had had up until that point, and Bane managed to best Kas'im, until Kas'im whipped out his trump card, his dual-blade variant style of Ataru, which he didn't show to any of his students. Oh, and again, this was BEFORE Bane's prime. While Bane primarily only used Soresu, Djem So, and Juyo, he had experience against all 7 forms, and was able to not only contend against, but best a master of all 7 forms. While yes, Bane's connection to The Force contributed to Bane being able to best Kas'im, it's foolish to credit ALL of his superiority in that fight or even most of it to his strong connection to The Force; his skill was a major factor as well. Step up yo game, son! I tear up your videos like paper!
I think Togruta's have a preference for Ataru in general as it suits them well. Many say the biggest weakness is defense but that often can be compensated for rather easily. I think the biggest challenge in the form is maintaining situation awareness. Their tendrils are a great aid in that though they could get in the way at times if they are really long.
Holy shit. This is honestly the best vs video I've ever set my eyes on. The breakdown of the characters were incredible and best narration of a duel. The wait was well worth it. Great job.
Depending on if your like Dark Empire or not, I understand its polarization, but I personally like it, then Luke defeats a beefed up Sidious in less than a minute .. and this is only maybe 10 years after ROTJ. He was supposed to be in his early 30s.
In my opinion it would likely play out like the fight between Anakin and Ventress on Yavin 4 (the middle to end of the fight primarily) with Luke standing in for his father and Krayt for Ventress. They are very much on par over all in saber skill, physicality and tactics but force abilities is Luke's game. Krayt is extremely powerful and clear competition for Luke having built up his power and skill for almost a century but Luke is just more powerful and a tad more varied. Plus Luke's shared knowledge of Shatterpoint cancels out Krayt's own and also Dark Transfer. Just my opinion though definitely a good match up I think :]
Agreed, it is the fact that Luke has so much power in the force it isn't a fair fight, only someone like Anakin can compete in raw force power with Luke or Leia.
So, how do you all think Shaak Ti would stack up against Obi-Wan Kenobi? Do you guys think her acrobatic but precise form could outmaneuver and outduel him?
I would argue Shaak Ti's Makashi-Ataru hybrid is a more dynamic innovative form than Kenobi employs but at the end of the day I don't think she could actually break his defenses he has answered the elements of Shaak Ti's style in the past but she wouldn't try to break his defenses either she is a very on and off duelist who fights in bursts than breaks off and Kenobi being the defensive duelist he is wouldn't chase after her and if he did attempt a committed offensive stance which is unlikely he isn't packing enough to break Shaak Ti's defenses either the backbone of his offense is the Ataru style which Shaak Ti herself has also mastered and her mastery of Makashi a form dedicated to blade combat also adds to her technical skill on both offense and defense a lightsaber fight between Shaak Ti and Obi Wan Kenobi would go nowhere and result in them posturing at each other after a few sequences a confrontation between them would be decided by physical capabilities and force powers as they also share the same general equipment. Evannova95 and the other Fanalysis council guys have said in the past Shaak Ti due to her Togrutan heritage is in superior physical condition to Kenobi and they also stated their belief Shaak Ti is stronger in the force at least in a combative sense so they would most likely favor Shaak Ti against Kenobi in a verses video which I agree with due to how their various skills stack up relative to each other.
Shaak ti was pitying Galen Marek not fighting him full heartedly . Grevious does not want to fight her at her best but fight her in a exhausted state. Shaak Ti fought Anakin to buy time rather than defeat him. Shaak Ti may even beat Count Dooku. Darth Bane is a good duellist but he lacks insight during a fight. Unpredictablility is his weakness like Vader.
+Hel DeathQueen I have seen you a lot in the comments. While I agree with unpredictability weakness (which is why I rage when people say Bane can beat Exar Kun), Shaak Ti couldn't beat Dooku. Can contend very very well, but could not win.
+Rob George Indeed. Her martial skill is one of the greats. but her force prowess stand below Dooku, yoda and Windu. Plo koon, Shaak Ti, Dooku, Yoda , windu and obi wan kenobi are my favorites in the Jedi council.
Nonsense. Shaak Ti let him win while being amplified by the planet. Grievous fought her twice and won and even if she was exhausted he'd still win against her regardless. Shaak Ti knew she couldn't defeat Anakin and had to escape before he steamrolled her. Shaak Ti cannot take Dooku. He outclasses her on every level.
An hour and a half? Gross. If you can't explain yourself in a concise manner, then there is an issue with your base arguement. AND it's a complete mismatch in Bane's favor. smh
You are pathetic, why does it matter how long a video is ? It's a form of entertainment and to get so fucking mad about something so insignificant makes no sense at all. Get a fucking life if this sort of thing emotionally effects you.
Impressive, nothing short of it. Yes, it is quite clear that Bane would win from the beginning, but it was still a treat to get this in depth breakdown of both combatants, and a detail rich duel that above all teaches the listener greatly about the skills and character of the two combatants. Plus, it is nice actually seeing the fine lady getting so much needed love from an expert (even if she is repeatedly treated like the Sean Bean of the SW galaxy). This was nothing short of enjoyable and instructive. Thank you for making this vid.
Yeah, Vader would win. It would roughly go about the same as his fight with An'ya Kuro, just replace Plant Surge with subtle telekinetic manipulation, thrown objects and force pushes. Ultimately, Vader outclasses Ti in power.
Shaak Ti is superior to Tobirama on the most important factor: SHE KNOWS WHEN TO RUN. She would never have tried to attack alive Rinnegan Madara, not after seeing him tanking 9 BIJUU at once while blind. Jedi are humble enough to run away when victory isn't possible.
Has Shaak-Ti ever deflected lightning with her saber before? I know that it would be an instinctual thing as Obi-Wan was able to deflect Dooku's lightning, but Dooku's lightning at the end of AotC was just him showing off to Kenobi, trying to turn him to the dark side. Bane's lightning in this match-up was a full explosive torrent on the order of what Sidious used against Windu, I don't think Shaak-Ti could survive it, I don't think her defenses against it would hold up long enough for her to think of a way out, I don't even think she'd have time to react and would be a charred husk on the floor. Well done for an interesting portrayal of how ingenious and quick thinking Shaak-Ti is and how sometimes that still isn't enough, though.
Destroy? Definitely not. Shaak Ti has the capabilities from her shown feats alone to prove a threat to Darth Bane. Statements of her abilities from novel and comic sources suggest her to be among the strongest of the jedi (Not Mace or Yoda tier by any means, but who is, other than Sidious really--All 3 would defeat her, to be clear). She fended off Grievous while disadvantaged, and in their second KNOWN confrontation (Battle of Coruscant, according to the novel Labyrinth of Evil), Stass Allie and Shaak Ti forced Grievous to temporarily fall back, and when Shaak Ti was later injured during the battle against the magna-guards, she still put up a fight against Grievous for a few moments, but was ultimately noted as "Too fatigued/weakened to defeat the General". The only one who has ever, EVER won a straight up fight with Grievous was Mace Windu. Even Obi-Wan would have been no match for Grievous, but he let himself become a vessel for the force, and allowed it to guide him against Grievous, which was still an incredibly close fight anyways. The Novel and Comic adaptations of The Force Unleashed show Shaak Ti being considerably more powerful and skilled than Galen Marek. Her defeat resulting in an "assumed double suicide attempt", or her simply dropping her guard after believing the fight to be over--depending on the source you look at. In the Novel, it was a pure light-saber fight, though Galen was using force lightning to cause the Sarlacc to jolt, making Ti lose her edge in Ataru and Makashi--yet she still came incredibly close to killing Galen, but was suggested by Galen himself to have leaped into his blade during the last assault--possibly with the intention to have both die right then and there. In the comic, Shaak Ti overwhelmed Galen with the force after an exchange with their light-sabers, and when she believed her victory was assured, she dropped her guard and was hit by a Force Repulse, fatally injuring her. It's pretty clear from both these sources that Shaak Ti was considerably more powerful than someone like Galen Marek at her peak. He just got incredibly lucky. During the Clone Wars, she fought Grievous several times, but the only two times we see them fight in Legends had her at a complete disadvantage. She also defeated Artel Darc (Unknown character now, due to her novel being cancelled) with assumed ease. Artel Darc was considered by Dooku to be one of his most cunning and powerful dark acolytes, including Ventress. Other sources outright allude to her having fought Darth Vader (Operation Night-fall), though details are never explored. One source stated that her experience and skill allowed her to outmaneuver Vader, and thus avoid death at his hands, and escaped. Obviously, Bane would defeat Ti, but none of the Jedi he has fought are at the level Shaak Ti is. She'd give Bane a run for his money until he gets enraged.
Wow, while I usually don't agree with your sith evaluations, I think your research on Bane is very spot on. It's not what most others say, but it seems like the closest thing to his real power. The only one I think is better is your Darth Tenebrous evaluation. Ironically I hate Shaak Ti in Force Unleashed (considering that's probably her most well known appearance), but overall I love her character and her fighting style. I especially liked her in both TCWs, but was disappointed she didn't appear that often in the later one (still had good scenes with her though). Anyways, this was definitely one of your best Vs. videos. I like Shaak Ti more than Bane, but that doesn't mean I'd change your video at all. Good job.
While I do regrettably agree with the verdict I must say that the way this video was conducted is above and beyond the quality of the rest of The Council. This video also demonstrates the thorough research that you did as both characters aren't particularly too mainstream. Thank you so much for your hard work, you have given me a great deal to think about.
To say that Darth Bane employ's manipulation and not enginuity is a sociological argument. In Darth Bane's time' manipulation is most effective against his adversaries, he was sufficient against the heavy hitters of his time. In Shak Ti's time' combat is more technical and devisive, she adapted her fighting techniques to the way combat is waged in her time. The same is true of Darth Bane, if Shak Ti was born in Darth Bane's time' she would have been his apprentice.
You and Antoine are tied as my favorite VS' youtubers, it's probably because i can listen to your videos while getting ready for bed, or the fact that you both are excellent speakers and have great voices I don't really know, but keep up the great work!
I have not watched the video yet or looked at the comments but I would be SHOCKED if Bane does not win. I'll be back in a hour and a half to see if I was wrong......but I doubt it
Nova, you did a amazing job with this video.,no offense to the other versus creators but this was one of the best I've heard. the narrative part made you really visualize the battle between the two. really enjoyed it you know your stuff. keep up the good work
This one isn't up for debate. If shaak ti can't even hold a candle to dooku and general grievous, what makes her think she can last more than 10 seconds against the likes of darth bane or darth sidious?
Loved the battle part and I agree. But just so I got it strait, Ti ran away in the end of the fight? Definitely seems in her character, not every duel ends in death.
hahahhahahahahaha. Shak Ti would carve him up with ease. She has far more versatility compared to Darth Zannah & doesn't need Sith magics to destroy him. Just th name of BANE overhypes him, and yeah I don't subscribe to Grievous having beaten Shake Ti. Lucas and Filoni can't have it both ways. Her death wasn't cannon until the updated clone wars and all we knew is what happened in Force Unleashed. And don't tell me Bane is superior to Starkiller. He's not. His OP Force abilities are being used this time against an experienced force user. And the more you intensify your voice doesn't lend weight to ridiculous arguments...for example, if you've ever done ANY serious fencing of any kind, OBVIOUS defensive blocks ARE a serious problem and they can be anticipated and easily overcome with feints and carried speed & angles. Ti is FAR faster than anything he has encountered, his apprentice included. He had to use his Force powers to actually defeat his master. Ofc he wasn't at his peak then... but nevertheless. Ti is beyond him.
I have a few ideas for the versus series: 1. Galen Marek vs Obi Wan Kenobi 2. Darth Malgus vs Anakin Skywalker 3. Anakin Skywalker vs Darth Bane 4. Revan vs Darth Vader. 5.*Maul and Dooku and Vader vs Sidious 6. Satele Shan vs Starkiller (TFS2) What do you think?
Evan, this was very well done! The analysis was spot on and, I must say that your use of Madara Uchiha and Tobirama Senju for comparisons made a lot of sense. Also, I've never been a fan of narrative style but Reti4's brilliant reading and the depth of description, combined with the use of images, painted a beautiful picture and had me hooked the entire time. I personally came down of Bane winning long before I watched the whole thing but this was so close that as things kept being pointed out, I found myself questioning that a bit and thus, made for the first VS Match, in a long time, that I was truly excited to see how it would end. Overall, this entire video's creation of a vivid picture and use of detailed explanations show the fruit of your labors. I can only wait for the next big thing you come up with. Thank you for doing such good work and sharing it with us!
I sense a disturbance in the Force..... It's as if thousands voices cried out in both praise and scorn at the preview of a Versus Match and then after much anticipation were suddenly...........silenced.
In all seriousness, I really hope you guys enjoy this special match-up. I put ALOT into this one and I am VERY VERY SORRY for the many delays on this project.
Hey bro I'm happy to see your latest video
:)
What the hell, did you imply sidious as being "A walking corpse?"
Do you play Star Wars Battlefront
im new to this channel
AWESOME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
“There are two key forms of lightsaber combat a Sith must master: Strong style and Fast style. The latter emphasises footwork, speed, precision, and acrobatics.” - Darth Bane, Book of Sith; The Rule of Two: Lightsaber Combat (page 82).
I think Bane would not be too surprised by Ti’s combined Makashi and Ataru style since his description of the Fast style (a style he himself likely formed when he streamlined the six Jedi forms into two Sith styles). He has also faced opponents that have used Makashi or Ataru during his time as a Sith apprentice: fellow apprentice Fohargh, who had began their sparring match with Soresu switched to Makashi midway through their duel; while his lightsaber instructor had demonstrated a deadly mastery of Ataru and Jar’Kai during their fateful duel on Lehon.
Of course this is purely my own speculation based on his previous lightsaber combat experience and his description of the Fast style in the Book of Sith.
The following is my own theory into which classic Jedi forms were used in the creation of the two Sith styles.
Fast style: Makashi, Soresu and Ataru
Strong style: Shii-Cho, Shien and Djem So
Shaak Ti is essentially using the offensive variation of Fast style, in stark contrast to the tactics employed by Bane’s apprentice, Darth Zannah.
From a technical point of view, I don’t see Shaak Ti having too much of an advantage over Bane. She does however have an advantage in experience. In my opinion who would win in a duel? I’m afraid I must concur with Evannova95 and conclude that the fight would be a draw. Shaak Ti may have speed on her side but Dynasty of Evil era Bane has achieved a mastery of Soresu that can provide enough defensive coverage to nullify that advantage. Both may even throw in a punch or kick occasionally. This would be a marathon fight rather than anything hard and fast, despite the move sets both combatants employ. I see the fight playing out in a similar fashion to Shaak Ti’s confrontation with Grievous and his MagnaGuards on Coruscant in the 2D clone wars micro series, with Bane pushing forward with a strong yet steady offence, making use of the defensive Soresu to parry Shaak Ti’s stabbing counters. The fight goes on, and the longer it goes on the more impatient Bane becomes. The fight goes on, and the longer it goes on the more tired Shaak Ti becomes. The final question therefore is, who falters first? Will Bane leave an opening in his impatience to end her once and for all? Or will fatigue cause Shaak Ti to present an opening no Dark Lord of the Sith could resist?
I love revisiting these older videos. The attention to detail is fantastic and I appreciate the effort you all put into your versus videos.
Shaak Ti’s style combination relies on the opponent to be weak to either speed based acrobatics or precise strikes that Pierce a weak defense. If Ti uses Ataru Bane goes on Defence and tires her out. If she uses Makashi, Bane breaks through her defenses with strength. My vote is on Bane’s more measured style rather then Ti’s blitzing.
There is very little in the Bane trilogy that suggests Bane was dependent on familiarity with the forms of his opponents. I think Evan's interpretation is flawed. He never "studied" his opponents before engagements. And it's not like other fighters won't struggle against something they have never seen before
It's very interesting to point out that Luke Skywalker came to the same conclusion with the added Medium style. Mind you Luke Skywalker is like the top 3 greatest lightsaber duelist of all time with the likes of Tulak Hord and Exar Kun. So the fact that Darth Bane was able to discover Strong and Fast style that Luke also discovered must mean what he states is very much so valid. Also Luke and Darth Bane are both Masters of Djem So with Luke being stated to use Djem So as the back bone of his lightsaber forms. Which based on the Jedi academy games I can solemnly state what these 3 forms were based on.
For Medium Style it was Djem So, Shii-Cho and Niman. As it was not only the basics but well balanced and was good to not only fall back to but was very versatile. As all Jedi before had learnt Shii-Cho and Niman due to it being compulsory. So it's nature being one where you can fall back on due to it's Shii-Cho nature and being versatile due to it's Niman nature makes alot of sense.
For Fast Style it was Djem So, Ataru and Soresu. Oddly enough in the game it was the best at defending against blaster bolt with it's insane movement however it had the least amount of range when it came to hitting someone and was most likely based around Obi-Wan's lightsaber techniques.
Lastly strong style consist of Djem So, Juyo and Makashi. This was powerful in the game as it had the most range due to you just lunging aggressive with a wide swing or piece attack. This range most likely came from the footwork of Makashi but also the falsehood and yet unpredictable chaotic nature of Juyo as it would seem to leave you wide open if you didn't know how to properly use it as it was the most difficult to use out of the 3. However it was apparently considered the ultimate counter against Fast form making it the ultimate dueling form when it came to pure lightsaber as the strength of djem so was given more control of the lightsaber duel with Makshi and yet it was hard to counter due to its Juyo nature.
I get that I didn't include Shien or Vapaad but Luke never got to learn Vapaad as far as we know and with Shien it was either included in all of the 3 forms like Djem So or not there at all as I couldn't really tell from Jedi Academy unfortunately as there weren't really any signs of it other than blaster deflecting that all the lightsaber forms had if you timed it correctly. I do not know however if Darth Bane viewed strong and fast style the same way Luke did but it was most likely considering he would probably look down on the Medium form as Shii-Cho and Niman don't really specialise in anything. Either way I do think Darth Bane would beat Shakti in a pure lightsaber duel as his lightsabers form Djem So seems to be somewhat on par with Vader's(who is 6"2) or Malgus's(who is 7"2) Djem So which given Bane is (6"5 in Legends 5"7 in Canon) I do think Bane would win in a lightsaber duel whether it be barely or not.
Damn that verdict was well written and told...
Worthy of a book of it's own! My compliments to you and reti4!
Thanks very much. Evan worked me like a slave driver to get it and the verdict written out :)
Reti4 Well, if I had writing talent like that, I'd work myself over even harder!
you don't give enough credit to Bane for being able to wear the armor, I read it was extremely painful to wear the orblisk armor. I don't think most Sith could have endured the pain. great video, big fan of bane
Darth bane made pain his b**ch that's for sure
The pain exacerbated his powers, right? Isn’t the dark side based off emotion and pain?
@@thefilmwatcher1302 yeah
None could have. Maybe Darth Sion do to pain tolerance but thats it.
@@thefilmwatcher1302 I argue Malgus couldn’t do it, but I think Krytt could, for a time
woah dude, grats on getting such a huge project finished and released, people don't realize how tough it is
THANK YOU.
THANK YOU! SHAAK TI FINALLY GETTING SOME REPRESENTATION AND CREDIT! SHES SO UNDERRATED!
We need more Shaak Ti in these versus series, and in canon material.
Shaak Ti is a true Jedi master who massively underrated. Her skills in Makashi where described as similar to Dooku himself in the Revenge Of The Sith novelization. She compensated for all the weakness of her unique hybrid light saber form and has total mastery of the light side of the force.
If anything she's become VERY overrated.
Her skills in Makashi are not similar to Dooku's. In that same passage Depa Billaba's skill with Vaapad was mentioned with Windu's and I think we can all agree that Windu's skill with Vaapad is dramatically above Billaba's.
Shaak Ti hasn't made up for all of the weaknesses of her Forms. Her use of Makashi and Ataru is supposed to let her be mobile and prevent head on engagements which falls apart if she's fighting someone like Anakin, Maul, or Revan, each of which are faster and stronger than her. This is why she didn't do well against Grievous and still wouldn't have even if she wasn't tired.
@Tom Cross What feats does Shaak Ti have that put her even close to Anakin outrunning the vacuum of space, outrunning Dooku and Ventress at the same time or filling up Dooku's entire field of blue which is something Grievous hasn't been able to do?
Many of those abilities she was only able to use on a lightside nexus on Felucia.
Both Anakin and Obi-Wan out preform her in durability. And it wouldn't matter in a contest with lightsabers that are touch based weapons.
And her knee feat isn't anything a Jedi Padawan couldn't do on a Super battledroid in the Republic comics which is more impressive considering they don't have heads in the first place.
Maul is faster than Shaak Ti. In SOD he was able to keep up with Mace Windu, outpace Grievous, and was fast enough where Sidious couldn't speed blitz him. Mace surpasses her physically, in the Force, and has an advantage in sabers.
Her Makashi and Ataru only works if she's faster than her opponent which wouldn't be the case with Anakin, Maul, or Grievous. And Yoda can create openings, Ti doesn't have any showings that put her offense as high as Yoda's that silly.
Windu's been known to up play people and was massively hindered through that fight. He had endured multiple weeks of the jungle, gotten fucked up by Kar Vastor, had cuts on his neck, wrist, and knees, and had been stabbed through to gut.
In feats what places Shaak Ti's Makashi among Dooku's?
@Tom Cross The standard magnagurads aren't as fast as Dooku or Ventress. And it's not specified how long it took her to get to Palpatine. And bullet trains don't move as fast as the vacuum of space.
Kazdan Paratus also exploded of light energy. We know she was amped because it's been stated in the novel that Felucia's live energy amped lightsiders.
Mace had Aayla's help which is still impressive and Maul alone has speed feats among Windu's. Maul fought Grievous 2 times and had a speed advantage. Not just their fight on the bridge. Sidious was not toying with him. In TCW he was but in SOD he legitimately saw Maul as a threat and wasn't able to stomp him.
Mace has physical augmentation that surpasses Ti. I'm currently making a video with Mace in it and have gathered plenty of feats.
I meant Maul and Mace in sabers > Shaak Ti.
No you didn't lol I just countered them. Shaak Ti overall doesn't have speed feats among any of them. Legends Grievous would've have any trouble with Ti.
Suggesting Shaak Ti's Ataru is near Yoda's is ridiculous. And her montrals are echolocation. Force users can sense openings in the Force already as per Mace's Shatterpoint or Anakin's precognition.
Mace had just been fucked up by Vastor and I wouldn't call his multiple wounds and him being stabbed through the gut a "fleshwound". It went right through.
30 minutes? Where is the length of the fight stated? And she didn't do well until she got ahold of the electrostaff so her success in that fight wasn't because of Makashi.
Again, where is it stated that they fought? You also claimed in another post that she penetrated his Force barrier but haven't given a source.
And Ki-Adi Mundi has Makshi and Ataru as well. His Ataru's only second to Yoda's which makes sense considering Yoda personally taught him and his Makshi was able to outmatch Ventress's.
Wow Evan I gotta give you props, not many people would attempt to make a Versus match up that is over an hour long let alone 2 of them. You are certainly braver then I would be. I've only made 1 match up that was even close to an hour long and even that video was dicey at best. But I really appreciate the work and effort you put into these videos and you along with the rest of your Jedi council continue to encourage to keep my versus series going. Keep up the amazing the work the more detail the better in my opinion.
Hey 3tr I see you like the video and Madara I mean Bane beat Ti.
I like the battle simulation in "novelization" format you have, and Reti4's voice and narration style fits the context too. Although I still want to confirm what happened at the very end; from the description it seems like Bane was prepping a finishing blow, he got blinded so he decided to create space to launch a Force attack, and Shaak Ti realizing she can't beat Bane decided to use that distraction to GTFO.
Pretty much.
Holy shit... That narrative breakdown kicked some serious ass. That was genuinely well written; if someone had read that to me out of context and changed the names of the characters, I would have believed it was from an officially published Star Wars novel.
Wow, high praise. Thank you very much.
It took an age for me to write it, about 8 hours for the narrative alone, so it's nice to hear it paid off, at least for some.
Kyle Katarn the Jedi Outcast vs Meetra Surik the Jedi Exile.
Loved the narrative setup at the end and Reti4 did an excellent job narrating it. I wish people would stop low balling Bane though, no he's not the most powerful dude ever but he's certainly among the best. As others have pointed out, just because he didn't get into lightsaber duels every other week doesn't mean he's at a disadvantage here. His familiarity with all the forms, training with Kasim, battle with Kasim (regardless of how it ended, and his fight on Tython all show how good he really is. And the fact that he was up against 4 jedi (2 of which were basically battle masters) negates the Orbalisk armor argument too especially when you remember how close they came at points to beating him anyways.
It is interesting how close Shaak Ti was to Bane. A match I would like to see would be with some of the older Sith lords. I would like to see Ajunta Pall vs. Marka Ragnos. Better yet, a video detailing the history of the Sith order. The older Sith are interesting in the fact that they are more akin to mages rather than warriors.
Man, above all else, the factual, concise yet detailed analyses, what I enjoyed the most was that novel description of the battle itself, very well orchestrated and intriguing.
Hope you do more of those in the future.
Holy cow, Evannova and Reti4. That was both beautiful scripted and excellently voiced. Nice narrative.
"Like the clap of a thought bomb" That reference though. :'D
Reti you need to do this for a living.
Thanks very much for your encouragement, I really appreciate it. I'm definitely not good enough to make a living out of this though. :)
It took me about 10 hours to write the verdict and narrative scripts, and another four to record the narrative. It still wouldn't be finished if Evan hadn't been driving me on.
+Reti4 thats what friends are for.
+Reti4 You did an incredible job with writing the verdict and narrative scripts. Also, (this sounds weird) but if your voice was deeper, I would have wanted you to be the voice of Thrawn. There is something about a deep British accent that works well with Thrawn. At least for me.
+Reti4 can you guys do revan va darth krayt
Krayt would win that One o think but would be good
Very well written fight, even if I do disagree somewhat with your appraisal of their respective abilities. I simply do not believe Shaak Ti has the capabilities to withstand a prolonged attack of Bane.
After all, she couldn't even withstand Grievous in a duel. And Starkiller beat her even when she was stengthened in the force and was familiar with her surroundings and could use them to her advantage.
And Bane is without a doubt a swordmaster. After all, he beat arguably the most proficient swordmaster of his age, even though he was trained by that same master and in a way that would allow him to defeat Bane.
I'm sorry, I'm not a Bane fanboy, but I do not believe these two could even be put in the same league. In terms of physical ability, force power, training and experience (where you get your assumption that Bane lacks experience I don't know. He was in countless battles and duels against other force users, even more than Shaak Ti who would likely be more experienced fighting blaster wielding opponents.) Bane is superior to her.
These two simply cannot even be compared.
There is speculation from many fans that there's bias against Old Republic or favor of New Republic or Jedi Council members and such.
sonic8005
That is likely. Even though they aren't weak by any stretch of the imagintion, new republic jedi simply aren't as strong as Rule of two sith.
Remember that Sidious beat four council members at the same time (even though I choose to regard the fight displayed in the movie more as artistic expression); And you can't tell me that Sidious is that much superiour to all sith who came before him. While he was the last and per the Rule of two stronger through generations of sith disciples oneupping ther masters, even he couldn't take on four warriors of Bane's caliber at the same time.
And that's exactly what EvanNova would have us believe: That those four councilmembers (two of which -Windu and Fisto - I would consider above Shaak Ti in skill even) were almost on Bane's level as fighters.
I think people are simply fans of the new republic jedi and don't want to see that they have indeed generally diminished in power, while the sith have become stronger in secret, even though that was the plan behind implementing the Rule of two in the first place.
Windu is far more skilled then Bane, Mace would beat him quite easily. Mostly because at the time with his understanding of both the Darkside and Vaapad he'd be able to turn Bane's own power back against him. But in pure lightsaber skills Mace is far superior.
However both times Shaak Tii fought General Grievous she was exhausted from battles first in the battle leading up to the destruction of their Clone forces, and the second by holding off a literal army of Magna Guards which again are all threats to a Jedi. (And both times she fought Grievous she fought the micro series one which is far more deadly then the one in the movie or in the TV show.)
She is easily more skilled then Kit Fisto, Mace left her for a very specific reason, besides him she was the best chance of defending the Jedi Temple if he failed, Mace knew they had to move quickly to win, and they had to make sure that they had the best defense up if he failed.
No one is arguing that the other three members of the council (that Sideous killed two of which were done through treachery as written in the book) were on Banes level they were distinguished swordsman however they were the best Mace had access too since he couldn't trust Anakin, and he needed Shaak Tii to defend the Temple as she was their best battlefield commander besides Yoda.
Crazyscotsman
I disagree. Vaapad doesn't enable you to suddenly beat every sith you come across. It's designed specifically to even out Windu's weakness of loving combat too much, which destabilizes him and weakens his connection to the light side, not to defeat sith.
As for lightsaber skills, Bane would be on par at least with Windu. Windu didn't beat Palpatine, Palpatine let himself be beaten by him. Which means that Windu was weak enough that Palpatine allowed imself to play around with him to make his bid to turn Anakin look more convincing.
The founder of the Rule of two was ot so weak that he could be "quite easily" defeated by someone so inferiour to similar sith, even if he was the final master of the Rule of two.
And you give Shaak Ti far too much credit. Even though her defeat at the hands of Grievous happened in the microseries, (it also happened in a deleted scene in RotS, btw), it still remains a source that is often seen as valid. And exhaustion is a weak argument, gven that the recuperating powers of the force and especially the light side, which every jedi can use, would have long evened out that disadvantage even if it had ever existed.
Also, Grievous too fought a battle against the republic army and oher jedi before her; And he didn't even have the force to recuperate.
And Kit Fisto is as good as her. He is a swordmaster of the order, only the likes of Windu, Yoda or Obi-wan could "easily" beat him.
You honestly make it sound as if Shaak Ti was some kind of jedi goddess whose defeat at the hands of literally everyone we ever saw her fight was just a fluke on the part of her opponents.
She may have been a good battlefield commande, but tht doesn't mean she's as excellent a fighter. And given that the rank of battle is Sidious > Dooku > Ventress > Grievous > Shaak Ti it's a bit of a stretch to believe she could actually be a match to Bane.
Beg your pardon but no, exhaustion is NOT a weak argument. Even with the Force Jedi still have limits to their stamina and will tire eventually. This is shown numerous times throughout the franchise. They have enhanced abilities but they're still mortal and are still subject to the limitations of any living thing, including fatigue.Claiming "well Grievous had been fighting too" is nonsensical. Grievous is a cyborg. He didn't need the Force to recuperate because he literally never gets tired since most of his body is mechanical. He doesn't have biological muscles to get tired.
free chicken for everyone
hell yeah
This is the best comment.
I'm a ithorian aka a vegetarian I'll pass
I devoured a whole bucket yesterday
Can I have some Mashed Potatoes?
Bane : Literally has armed disintigrated by sith sorcery and can still use essence transfer, is absolutely ravaged by orbalisk poison, was beaten daily by his father, miners and even his sith teachers, crashed a ship nearly killing him and relocated his own shoulder. Plus the literal agony of the orbalisks eating him alive for what, a decade?
"Shaak Tii obv more pain tolerant than Bane"
@Tom Cross Cool, I didn't ask for a novel on Shaak, and only a few of those things talk about Pain Tolerance. I would say that surviving his own force lightning at the same time as being eaten alive literally from the inside by the toxin is more impressive than any of those individual feats besides maybe a lightsaber strike. I don't have an issue with Shaak but as I said I feel the blanket statement she is "obviously" more pain tolerant leaves a lot on the table to discuss for Bane's ability to take a beating.
@Tom Cross Also, you realize over half that post was completely irrelevant to my point? What do echolocation horns have to do with pain tolerance? Or the fact that she is on the Jedi Council? We are talking about one thing, pain threshold, and none of that in any way is going to make her tougher than anyone else.
In regards to their physical abilities Ti is impressive but she is simply not as impressive as Bane. Regarding pain tolerance specifically Bane has this comfortably in the bag and it's worth noting that we have at least one specific source (the force unleashed campaign guide) that lists the Togruta species as having specific penalties to their constitution so unless there is a specific source that outright disproves that notion as a rule Togruta are in no way physically superior to humans at least in regards to their ability to cope with physical pain.
@@PsionicMonk Bro your not arguing with Tom Cross lmao. This dude thinks Gungans > Legends Grievous, and Shaak Ti > Obi Wan lmfao.
As of right now , Here is my top 10 Evannova95 Versus Matchups
10.Jaina Solo Fel VS Darth Plagueis
9. Jango Fett vs Pe Vizsla
8. Zannah vs Lumiya
7. Maul vs Tyranus vs Vader
6. Plo Koon VS Obi-Wan Kenobi
5. Darth Vader vs Darth Caedus
4. Obi Wan Kenobi vs Plo Koon
3. Lord Hoth vs Daerth Bane
2. Darth Sidious vs Vitiate
1. Luke Skywalker vs Mace Windu
Hm: Oppo Rancisis /Quinlan Vos vs Vodo-Siosk Baas/Cay Qel-Droma,
Lucien Draay VS Eeth Koth
Bane vs Krayt
You put Obi-Wan Vs. Plo Koon twice :)
shit, i completely screwed that up. forget number six , it's now a top 9
+jack newton lol.
All but 3,8,10 are already out there.
+Isaac Lucero there's Janna against plagius
Qui Gon Jinn vs. Rahm Kota. Both of them have many similarities, mostly due to the fact that they were considered to be mavericks of the Jedi Order and both then had an impact on galactic history. Finally, there's so many similarities between the two.
Kota in my view. Jinn is the superior swordsman but Kota is good enough to contend and is the more adept combative force wielder.
I highly disagree with the assertion that Darth Bane lacked in combat experience. On Korriban he dueled CONSTANTLY! Only taking a break after the defeat by the Zabrak. Regardless of whether or not they used practice sabers and the force. His daily sparring with Kasim. And of course he sparred with Zannah daily. The beasts he battled, cultist, Assasination attempts against the force trained Umbaraans. He had PLENTY of displays of lightsaber skill.
@@ming45612 Where has that ever been established? Outsmarting your opponent and seizing victory would be applauded on Korriban and would likely earn you more direct study from the Sith masters. The Sith prize cunning and intelligence just as much as raw power or pure combative effectiveness.
Yeah there's rules in the dueling ring to an extent but that never stopped multiple severe injuries occurring there and it never stopped Bane from murdering Fohargh there either. Dueling experience has a lot more value than you're implying and it's far more vigorous and dangerous in the Sith academy than it would be in the Jedi temple for example. Bane's experience in the ring is not to be discounted simply because it wasn't on the battlefield. The Korriban dueling ring can and has killed apprentices.
Love the red skull bane crayola drawings.
Would you consider doing a video explaining Pong Krell's martial prowess? I know it's hard but I'd appreciate it!
I'm not sure anyone would stand a chance in a lightsaber duel against Pong Krell.
+Insomniac4Ever umm... Yes people could.
It's hard to do so, because Krell has never been involved in any lightsaber duels. Most of his notable feats were primarily battlefield fights, not single combat.
+Kevin Sanchez obviously. That's why I said it would be hard, but there's a lot you can still work out and make educated guesses
+Kevin Sanchez obviously. That's why I said it would be hard, but there's a lot you can still work out and make educated guesses
bane by a long shot IMO
By a very large margin.
Lukasz Szkutak hey this is Evan we're talking about he will lowball whoever he wants to
Master Of Disguise dude Bane still win
Master Of Disguise dude Bane still win
You mean how people low-ball Shaak Ti ridiculously due to the sole purpose that she lost to Grievous? Shaak Ti is a decent match for Darth Bane, even if she loses.
This is a masterpiece. Now that I think of it, it really reminds me of the fight between Crian Maru and Kaox Krul in the short story Darkness Shared. Seriously, have you read it? They're almost identical in theme. Speaking of which, would you consider using Kaox in one of your videos? I would like to see him against PoD Darth Bane since they are so similar. Keep it up!
I was shocked to see this super long video in my feed and I'm happy to say that I was not let down. This episode was AWESOME and I really enjoyed Reti4s audio-track along with all the edited scenes. Hopefully you can figure out the audio differences in the future but even so, I appreciated the heads up (maybe also put a heads up when it ends so that I have a second to turn the volume back down, please).
I for one agree with all the analysis provided by you on both bane and tii, and it gave me inspiration to think up a match I find kind of similar to this one, one I considered doing myself but I don't currently have the equipment to make it nor the skill to script it, so I gift it to you, how do you like the prospect of darth malak vs obi wan kenobi?
Cord Revan-Shepard or Kyle Katarn vs Obi Wan Kenobi.
This still remains the pinnacle of character matchup content. Reti4 to thank for that, but nova was good with the stats part too.
32:22 I really like your videos, but these are just some facts. You're seriously not giving Bane enough credit, not as bad in this video as in the disaster of Hoth vs Bane, but still.
Darth Bane is a top tier duelist, like it or not and you argumentation why he isn't, is not accurate, because you take feats before his prime as absolute and the rest could mostly be said about every rule of two era Sith Lord, eventhough everyone we know about was at least on Ti's level. So Bane gets the edge as a martial artist, because Ti isn't on the same level as other top tier fighters like Obi-Wan, Anakin or Dooku.
Giving Ti the edge in physical capabilities is also questionable, due to Bane's superior strengh, hight and at least comparable endurance.
The only reason to give Ti the definitive edge is the lightsaber hit from Galen Marrek she survived, which I wouldn't count that much, because it's a clear exaggeration from the author.
I mean seriously, if I understand that right, she would have sustained a lightsaber ranging half a meter through her stomach, which would either mean , that the blade would have impaled her or came from a shapener angle, which in turn would mean, that the lightsaber would pierce through her loungs, which is just ridiculus.
Bane stomps hard on this match, Bane 10/10
You underestimate Ti
Bruce Jedi Lee you underestimate Bane
wolfmaster7 Bane is overrated. He is a skilled duelist but his power with the force is not to far above hers. She is far smarter with how she uses the force and has feats that places her amongst the greatest force users of her time. She was also able to handle Galen who is Banes equal in terms of raw power
Bruce Jedi Lee Ti is good but nowhere near Bane's level
wolfmaster7 She is his superior as a duelist and has feats with the force that put her, while not on Banes level, it still puts her near it
Man imagine if Bane had dueling experience, god that’d be something
Bane is EASILY in the top 3 Djem So wielder
Shaak Ti was lookin fine as hell there.
Pervert
Whew...I thought he was going to say Shaak Ti for a minute there lol
But Shaak ti is certainly a match for Bane
@@iceomistar4302 Sheeeeeeeeeeiiit
I'm less than eight minutes into the video, I'm gonna place my bet on Bane on account of greater physical strength and stamina and greater skill with the force. Let's see if I'm right
I was half right
On the physicality aspect of things, a lot of people have that train of though because look at Bane's size and muscles. But then you have to realize he is past his physical prime and dark side degradation hit him a bit. Shak Ti is not human, around the same age if not younger (light side of the force to limit effect of age), and her species gives her sonar, superior flexibility, and durability around the level of the armored truck that is ROTS Kenobi (tank is Vader, Malgus, Scourge, and guys like that).
Rob George that is a very valid point
WoodstockProd thanks.
I think most people underestimate Shaak Ti's ability with Tutaminis. Only the most high level applications of force lightning could potentially produce an energy output more intense than a lightsaber, if at all. And it's not surprising that she was unable to negate the kinetic force behind Grievous' blow as the amount of concentration and power required to block a lightsaber would be incredibly taxing, particularly given how exhausted she was at the time. Few in her position could have mustered the strength to block both aspects of that attack, especially from a combatant as physically powerful as Grievous. Point is, it seems to me that she has more than a 'limited' ability with Tutaminis. Otherwise I'm in full agreement with the rest of the video.
im just gonna flat out say it bane can basicly rape anyone exept revan vitiate nihlus the exile grandmaster luke yoda palpatine krayt malgus and abeloth
Valkorian vs Darth Krayt :D
Anakin vs Krytt
please more character story instead bro :(
Agreed. His VS are wannabe Story-ofs anyway. And the Story format does not go so well in a combative comparison video.
+Jeff Collins It's meant as a brief description to people who are unfimiliar with the given character not a full fledged story.
I'm.....speechless, left in nothing but awe and wonder. The anilitical analysis was perfect in every respect, and it makes me look at Shak Ti in a new way as well. Evannova95 and Reti4 words cannot describe how much I didn't want this video to end. The narration matched the beasts of the video perfectly and the script was flawlessly written WELL DONE. I would very strongly suggest doing more audio battles in the future as I love hearing you guys talk. Could you guys do an audio drama vs battle with Count Dooku vs Mace Windu? I would love to know what was going through their heads as they fought each other. :)
7:40 - The average lifespan of a healthy human being is around the same figure your providing for Togruta's. Humans physical primes last from 18-28. While Shaak might have been in the best physical shape possible for a 50 something year old she is still going to be out of her base physical prime.
8:35 - Continued fighting? She manages to keep from passing out from the pain and remain standing but she is not able to keep fighting after she is stabbed. Here's the passage after she was stabbed.
"Her weakening fingers let go of her lightsaber, which deactivated with a click as it spun away into the sarlacc's mouth. She didn't look angry, just weary and in pain. Her red skin was suddenly very pale. He feinted toward her, but she didn't react in any way, except to look at him. "You are Vader's slave," she breathed, "but your power is wasted with him. You could be so much more."
"You'll never convince me to betray my Master." He was shocked that she would try such a weak gambit again. Were these the depths to which the Jedi had sunk?
"Poor boy." She winced. "The Sith always betray one another-but I'm sure you'll learn that-soon enough..." There was pity in her eyes as they rolled up into her head. She went limp and fell back into the mouth of the sarlacc." - The Force Unleashed.
Disagree with your verdict on the physical section. Bane has better physical feats aside from durability/stamina.
12:28 - Would just like to note that it specifically mentions in DoE that Bane developed a straightforward and aggressive style based around the advantages his orbalisks provided him and that it's unlikely that he would have allowed Raskta to land the hits she did on him had he not possessed orbalisks.
22:00 - There are several factors you need to take into account in regards to the fight between Galen and Shaak. First off, Galen had just fought through an army of force users who could use the force as easily as humans breathe an oxygen rich atmosphere. Secondly Shaak had twisted Felucia out of balance causing it to become a Lightside nexus at once amping her and weakening Galen. Thirdly Galen and Shaak fought relatively evenly during the course of their battle with Shaak's only notable advantages coming when she abused her familiarity and control over the environment and ultimately when she completely disregarded her own defense in an attempt to overcome Galen's. In each variation of the fight Galen fights relatively evenly with Shaak until she abuses the environment or ultimately attempts a move that endangered her own life. On neutral ground I'd favor Marek in a fight against Shaak 10 times out of 10. The text is clearly Marek's own thoughts on the subject as well and it was a combination of Marek's reflexes, Shaak disregarding her own defense and Marek's own skill which ultimately lead to her death.
31:01 - The basis for your assumption that Shaak has adapted her forms to account for the weaknesses it holds against other forms is that she was a successful battlefield combatant. Given characters like Anakin Skywalker have made modifications to the Ataru form so that it can be better used for blast deflection I'm sure you'd agree that a lightsaber combatant of Shaak's caliber would have modified her own forms in a similar manner thus accounting for her effectiveness on the battlefield. I do not believe she accounted for the weaknesses her form would have suffered against Djem So because Dooku himself ( perhaps the greatest lightsaber duelist of his era ) was unable to do so despite encountering Anakin's Djem So numerous times throughout the Clone Wars before their fight on the Invisible Hand.
31:42 - I disagree here. While Shaak's baseline physicality is superior the Count has far greater force reserves and ultimately far greater stamina.
31:52 - Galen doesn't apply Djem So, he applies Shien and thus he would not possess the advantages someone like Bane or Anakin would have against someone like Shaak or Dooku.
Well at least I was featured even if I yet again disagree with your verdict.
41:29 - The Campaign Guide states that any force user of significant power is capable of potentially shifting the alignment of the planet which is why the Felucian shamans diligently seeks and trains its force sensitive natives in fear that one of them will fall to the darkside and corrupt the planet. Shaak's death was not what caused the planet to tilt to the lightside. It was her death in conjunction with Maris Brood's fall where she corrupts the native Felucians and trains them in the use of the darkside. Essentially the loss of a presence that kept the planet aligned to the lightside and the introduction of a presence that tilted it to the darkside.
42:40 - Where did you get the 30 minute figure? Is that another guestimate on your part or official?
44:00 - I hope that was hyperbole because if not you should check out this formula for calculating water pressure.
imgs.xkcd.com/comics/delta_p.png
45:00 - Paper machete force wall? Right, which is why Sidious so easily overpowered Galen in their force lock. Oh wait...
"The Sith lightning spread to engulf the two of them, fueled by both their desperations. The Emperor tipped back his head and howled in lascivious pain. Darkness threatened to envelop the apprentice's mind, but he clutched to consciousness with feverish will. He had to see this through. He had to.
A squadron of stormtroopers ran into the room, led by a limping Darth Vader. They raised their blasters to gun down the Rebels as they fled up the Rogue Shadow's ramp.
"No!" the apprentice cried, dropping his defenses to strike one last time at the Imperials." - The Force Unleashed.
Shaak landed her force push on him when he was crossing a pit of sarlaac teeth.
4.bp.blogspot.com/-rTnesolJSDg/VIxBkfCjPzI/AAAAAAAGcPU/CBY5KMUchUw/s1600/p1_41%2Bcopy.jpg
If you look at the scan I provide above you can see that the gap lay between Shaak and Marek. Marek either had to leap the gap or cross a causeway to Shaak's side which is when she hit him with her force push causing him to fall amongst the sarlaac's teeth.
Ahsoka also landed a force push in the season 2 finale of Rebels if you'll recall. Do you also believe canon Vader to have a "paper machete force wall?" -__-
45:16 - What other force user's defenses has Shaak overcome?
45:20 - Shaak has +10 force defenses. How can you interpret that as basic/mediocre/advanced when we have no basis for the upper limits that the ability could be scored at. Unless you have a similar sheet for a character like Vader or Sidious for comparison it's pure speculation on your part to suggest her force defenses can be measured based off this source.
46:55 - I'll note that the attack had no visible effect on Galen except to piss him off. Whether this is because of Galen Marek's "paper machete force defenses" or Shaak's own weakness as a combative force user I'll let you decide. :)
Well, at least your verdict was correct.
I want to reply on your comment about Galen Marek and sidious in regards to galen's force shield critizeing evan's analysis. First off he meant on an average not on a one time display. one feat does not back up the character's skill. for example it's like someone says Sedriss is great at blocking and using force attacks based on the evidence of when he blocked Nefta's force magic and nearly choked out Kam Salusoar and another person says he was crud because Luke incapacitated him with a single force push it's a one time thing and does not really factor into a full time track record plenty of factors can play into various senarios and matches like these are not to be taken so literally because a lot of different wording is used whitch can throw off somebody who takes it to literally. second Force lightning has almost nothing to do with full body force barriers. Galen used totaminis (can't spell that force power properly) to counter palpitine's lightning not a full body force shield and even was talking about his overall track record with a full body force shield not totaminis which only apply to the hands a wrists. BTW the rest of your statements were pretty damn impressive and expansive A for effort :)
On average? Right before he faces Sidious he deflects a telekinetic assault by Vader.
"His Master seized on his momentary weakness and hurled missiles at him from all sides, hoping to keep him off his guard. For a moment, it worked. Then the apprentice straightened and, with a sweep of his left arm, blew the missiles away." - The Force Unleashed.
And the only times his force defenses have ever been breached were by Shaak in the TFU comic ( which I already explained was riddled with circumstances ), by Vader after he was stabbed through the chest ( I'm sure you can understand why this wouldn't accurately reflect Galen's ability to defend himself in a normal state) and for a moment by Vader in their final fight before he responded in kind.
Regardless even if that had been Galen's only demonstration it would be sufficient representation of his ability to defend himself against force attacks in his prime. There's nothing on earth that would have prevented him from being instantly incinerated by Sidious's lightning unless he was capable of defending himself with the Force to an equal or comparable degree to what he is capable of doing in regards to combative force applications.
Except in your example it would. You would simply scale Luke at that point off of opponents Salusoar easily defended or went on the offensive against.
The quote I provided explicitly states that ""The Sith lightning spread to engulf the two of them," And that's how its depicted in both the game and novel. Then it goes on to say "No!" the apprentice cried, dropping his defenses" Specifically referring to the defenses that are allowing him to take in Sidious and his own lightning without being incinerated.
Unless you're arguing defenses is referring to tutaminis and that Galen was using tutaminis on his entire body your argument doesn't stand.
Thank you for the compliment.
Edit: Here are the scans from the comic for Galen and Sidious's force lock.
1.bp.blogspot.com/-IbvfXLS0jWE/VIxBDMaBP3I/AAAAAAAGcKU/tgfCF2vHTV0/s1600/p1_119%2Bcopy.jpg
@My Star wars Overpowering the Force defenses of Bane would be very different.
While i disagree with your comment/conclusion all these years later, i appreciate the quotes/passages you provided from sources like the tfu novel, which i for one never read and didn't know about.
Well done but too long. I prefer the shorter verdicts.
Bane vs. Traya. Would be interesting because both share the same style of engaging their enemies and I think Traya is underrated by many people.
Wow. What a great battle. I completely disagree that Shaak Ti couldn't have won, but to each his own. Shaak Ti is a better duelist in my opinion, with near equal force abilities due to precision and variety. You hit the physical advantages on the dot. I believe Ataru's speed advantage would have made a bigger change. I loved the battle narration, and can't wait for the next one.
By the way, what's your next Versus going to be?
@@Spellshot693 If she couldn't defeat Anakin during Operation Knightfall, how can she deal with a fully fledged Sith Lord ?
I loved this video! And was well worth the wait, please keep it up
Thank You.
Well done indeed.
We need these back. I loved the Naruto comparisons 😭 and the fight in of itself, the breakdown was 🐐
The most controversial part of this video: Implying Tobirama can beat Madara
Shaak Ti wouldn't have a chance.
So much salt in the comment section... let me grab some chips.
I have a suggestion or two:
Darth Revan - pre-redemption - VS Darth Traya - who is the better Sith Master of the era.
Obi-Wan Kenobi (ROTS) VS Darth Vader (ANH/ESB/ROTJ) - I really want to see who you think would win.
he has a real low opinion of the sith .... shame
I think bane would have failed to stone wall shaaks offence
Her counter-offensive certainly, as he does in the narrative, but her straight offensives aren't intense enough or sustained enough to break through the level of Soresu Bane employs. It's only when he goes on the attack and she is in her counter-offensive element that she has the edge here.
+Reti4 if banes defence could be broken by darth zanna who only uses form 3 then shaak ti is almost garentied to break through it...
@@jackb1783 zanna never got past bane's defense in either book (even when he didnt have his lightsaber). She even admitted she had no chance against bane with her light saber. She only won due to the extremely OP and unblockable dark side tendrils
I agree with the verdict, but I don't agree with how difficult you made it sound for Bane to get said victory. Still, the video was extremely well-made.
Sora Bulq Vs. Kas'im sound good?
I think that the struggle was proper given that bane is not a on the fly tactician even though ti isn't much better however her sensory and agility are considerably greater than bane's it would only be enough to as written to run and survive due to bane's power
This is awesome, I hope these narratives continue in future videos they make ur videos even more interesting
Because TH-cam keeps changing shit, and now you apparently can't do comments a certain length... multiple part comment:
Evan, I'm so tired of the lack of experience argument against Bane. My simple counter to this is Sidious. Sidious, like Bane, had barely any real fights, yet no one doubts Sidious' skill with the blade. Plus, considering how the Sith are more ruthless than Jedi, reason stands that their training would be far more grueling and less forgiving (more like an actual fight) than Jedi training would be like.
Oh, another counterexample would be freakin' ROTJ Luke. He had barely any fights, and on top of that, barely any actual formal combative training, yet he was challenging ROTJ Vader in their fight.
While not as ridiculously fast as Luke or especially Rey, Bane was also noted more than once as picking things up pretty quickly.
Basically stop already with the lack-of-experience argument. While it has merit in our real world, and in other universes (nerdoms), it pretty much has no credence in the Star Wars universe.
29:24 - You claim that ROTS Vader and Grievous "easily outclassed" Zannah. And it becomes increasingly clear just how much you underrate both Bane and Zannah! XD
29:28 - You claim that Grievous is not only comparable to Kas'im, but also "the more formidable opponent." Never mind what I said in the last thing (29:24); you just apparently underrate every Sith of that era.
When comparing Bane and Shaak Ti as duelists, specifically when comparing their fighting styles, you go back to comparing Bane's fighting style with Marek's. Not only are their fighting styles NOT the same (while their fighting styles both were comprised of Soresu and Juyo, Marek's 3rd and primary style was SHIEN, while Bane's was DJEM SO), but Bane is a far better duelist than Marek as well. A far more appropriate comparison would have been Bane to Vader. They're far closer in skill than Bane and Marek are, and while Vader doesn't really use Juyo, they both have two main fighting styles of a defense (Soresu), and an offense (Djem So).
32:42 - You claim Bane's "technical supremacy may make him EXTREMELY predictable"... you really know nothing, huh, Evan? Paraphrased from DoE: "When he was no longer afforded the protection of orbalisk armor, Bane adapted a more complex and unpredictable style that incorporated feints and defensive maneuvers."
Once again, "Bane adapted a more complex and UNPREDICTABLE style..."
You declared Bane... equal to Shaak Ti... in regards to dueling ability? -_- Dude, Kas'im's above Shaak Ti, and Bane was besting Kas'im until Kas'im pulled a fast one on him in PoD. Needless to say, this was well before Bane's prime as a duelist. In other words, Bane is well above Shaak Ti as a duelist, and his feats and accolades substantiate that. Way to omit his feat in the rainstorm, which is perhaps one of the best feats ever of speed, precision, and stamina, all wrapped in one.
Your bias is just SO damn clear. You make it a point to say that, because Bane used a defensive barrier version of force lightning, that he likely didn't know Tutaminis, but then you credit Shaak Ti with knowing Tutaminis because she used force deflect/barrier against Grievous? Um... that's not Tutaminis, bro.
Matt Chapman's right about the rest of you guys downplaying Bane.
49:42 - You suggest Ti could utilize her force healing in combat to improve her chances via survivability. Umm... when would she be able to use force healing IN FREAKING COMBAT? She does not know dark transfer, and therefore cannot heal almost instantaneously like Cade did in his fight against Talon.
51:18 - You claim, while the difference in their power is evident, it's not nearly enough to make the match one-sided. I agree to an extent. True, Bane can't simply attack her with The Force and instantly win. However, any force attack Bane employs against Shaak Ti will have Ti struggling to defend against it. You seem to mistakenly think that being able to defend against something means that it has no effect. If one can EASILY defend against something, this is true, but I don't think anyone except for Shaak Ti fanboys would say that Ti would be able to at all easily defend against Bane's force attacks.
In other words, it would take more effort for Ti to defend against Bane's force attacks than it would take for Bane to employ them. This would wear Ti down, and Bane would certainly emerge victorious if it came down to a contest of The Force.
It's my understanding that you wrote the verdict, but Reti read it, right?
If that's the case, then... a question: Why declare them equal as duelist (which already is heresy), then in the verdict, paint Shaak Ti as the superior duelist?
In your little postscript, you say why you did this match-up, even though you knew Bane would win, is because you essentially think people underrate Shaak Ti, and overrate Bane. While this is true, you conversely underrate Bane. While I've seen people inarguably overrate him by saying he'd destroy Sidious, you attempt and fail to counter-argue Bane being one of the best lightsaber duelists of all time. I mean, Kas'im was an absolute MASTER of all 7 forms, and was hailed as perhaps the best Blademaster the Sith had had up until that point, and Bane managed to best Kas'im, until Kas'im whipped out his trump card, his dual-blade variant style of Ataru, which he didn't show to any of his students. Oh, and again, this was BEFORE Bane's prime. While Bane primarily only used Soresu, Djem So, and Juyo, he had experience against all 7 forms, and was able to not only contend against, but best a master of all 7 forms. While yes, Bane's connection to The Force contributed to Bane being able to best Kas'im, it's foolish to credit ALL of his superiority in that fight or even most of it to his strong connection to The Force; his skill was a major factor as well.
Step up yo game, son! I tear up your videos like paper!
Droppin' truth bombs! Yeah this entire video is a puff piece for Shaak Ti and a defamation of Bane.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions.
Whenever Evan makes a response like this . . . it means he's conceded.
I think Togruta's have a preference for Ataru in general as it suits them well. Many say the biggest weakness is defense but that often can be compensated for rather easily. I think the biggest challenge in the form is maintaining situation awareness. Their tendrils are a great aid in that though they could get in the way at times if they are really long.
Holy shit. This is honestly the best vs video I've ever set my eyes on. The breakdown of the characters were incredible and best narration of a duel. The wait was well worth it. Great job.
Awesome video and for suggestions I would like to see Jaina Solo VS Mace Windu
Do Darth Krayt vs Grand Master Luke Skywalker
GM Luke. By a laughable landslide. GM Luke is easily the most powerful mortal force user in history. The only one who comes close is EU Sidious.
Depending on if your like Dark Empire or not, I understand its polarization, but I personally like it, then Luke defeats a beefed up Sidious in less than a minute .. and this is only maybe 10 years after ROTJ. He was supposed to be in his early 30s.
ummm... did not some member of the Forecast Council already do that....with Krayt winning??? (I could be wrong)
In my opinion it would likely play out like the fight between Anakin and Ventress on Yavin 4 (the middle to end of the fight primarily) with Luke standing in for his father and Krayt for Ventress. They are very much on par over all in saber skill, physicality and tactics but force abilities is Luke's game. Krayt is extremely powerful and clear competition for Luke having built up his power and skill for almost a century but Luke is just more powerful and a tad more varied. Plus Luke's shared knowledge of Shatterpoint cancels out Krayt's own and also Dark Transfer. Just my opinion though definitely a good match up I think :]
Agreed, it is the fact that Luke has so much power in the force it isn't a fair fight, only someone like Anakin can compete in raw force power with Luke or Leia.
So, how do you all think Shaak Ti would stack up against Obi-Wan Kenobi? Do you guys think her acrobatic but precise form could outmaneuver and outduel him?
I would argue Shaak Ti's Makashi-Ataru hybrid is a more dynamic innovative form than Kenobi employs but at the end of the day I don't think she could actually break his defenses he has answered the elements of Shaak Ti's style in the past but she wouldn't try to break his defenses either she is a very on and off duelist who fights in bursts than breaks off and Kenobi being the defensive duelist he is wouldn't chase after her and if he did attempt a committed offensive stance which is unlikely he isn't packing enough to break Shaak Ti's defenses either the backbone of his offense is the Ataru style which Shaak Ti herself has also mastered and her mastery of Makashi a form dedicated to blade combat also adds to her technical skill on both offense and defense a lightsaber fight between Shaak Ti and Obi Wan Kenobi would go nowhere and result in them posturing at each other after a few sequences a confrontation between them would be decided by physical capabilities and force powers as they also share the same general equipment. Evannova95 and the other Fanalysis council guys have said in the past Shaak Ti due to her Togrutan heritage is in superior physical condition to Kenobi and they also stated their belief Shaak Ti is stronger in the force at least in a combative sense so they would most likely favor Shaak Ti against Kenobi in a verses video which I agree with due to how their various skills stack up relative to each other.
@@vincentescolano obi wan wins this slaughter stomp of the millennia
what on earth are you on about
Shaak ti was pitying Galen Marek not fighting him full heartedly . Grevious does not want to fight her at her best but fight her in a exhausted state. Shaak Ti fought Anakin to buy time rather than defeat him. Shaak Ti may even beat Count Dooku. Darth Bane is a good duellist but he lacks insight during a fight. Unpredictablility is his weakness like Vader.
+Hel DeathQueen I have seen you a lot in the comments. While I agree with unpredictability weakness (which is why I rage when people say Bane can beat Exar Kun), Shaak Ti couldn't beat Dooku. Can contend very very well, but could not win.
+Rob George Indeed. Her martial skill is one of the greats. but her force prowess stand below Dooku, yoda and Windu. Plo koon, Shaak Ti, Dooku, Yoda , windu and obi wan kenobi are my favorites in the Jedi council.
Nonsense. Shaak Ti let him win while being amplified by the planet. Grievous fought her twice and won and even if she was exhausted he'd still win against her regardless.
Shaak Ti knew she couldn't defeat Anakin and had to escape before he steamrolled her.
Shaak Ti cannot take Dooku. He outclasses her on every level.
@@TheNuisanceBird what you said
@@TheNuisanceBird I see an astonishing lack of proof for your statement about Grievous.
they're professor x and magneto. sit them down across a chessboard, not a battlefield.
An hour and a half? Gross. If you can't explain yourself in a concise manner, then there is an issue with your base arguement. AND it's a complete mismatch in Bane's favor. smh
You a Snob fan? :P
I'm a fan of succinct quality. This is overblown. As have been his previous videos. Starting to think it's time to check out.
You are pathetic, why does it matter how long a video is ? It's a form of entertainment and to get so fucking mad about something so insignificant makes no sense at all. Get a fucking life if this sort of thing emotionally effects you.
Bradley Walters Oh the irony in your comment! The irony!
Hahaha Sith are always seen the stronger force users.
I'm just gonna throw this out because I find it interesting to see. Mace Windu vs Darth Kyrat?
This would be a good fight
Awesome work, makes me sad we dont get anymore Legends books.
vs idea Yoda vs Darth Revan
Impressive, nothing short of it. Yes, it is quite clear that Bane would win from the beginning, but it was still a treat to get this in depth breakdown of both combatants, and a detail rich duel that above all teaches the listener greatly about the skills and character of the two combatants. Plus, it is nice actually seeing the fine lady getting so much needed love from an expert (even if she is repeatedly treated like the Sean Bean of the SW galaxy).
This was nothing short of enjoyable and instructive. Thank you for making this vid.
Evan, you must now factor in things like capes during the equipment and weapons comparison.
Wwe smack Down tame blue vs raw tame the shield
Keep these up w the same narrator for the final narrative. This was better than any other versus ive seen. On this or any other channel.
Great video as always.
Could you include Vestara Khai into your series? She is a very underused character for versus series.
I thought Shaak Ti was a Jedi Consular?
How about you do Darth Vader vs shaak ti, PLEASE I AM BEGGING YOU
Vader.
@@jbradley9616 agreed
Yeah, Vader would win. It would roughly go about the same as his fight with An'ya Kuro, just replace Plant Surge with subtle telekinetic manipulation, thrown objects and force pushes. Ultimately, Vader outclasses Ti in power.
Shaak ti vs Mustafar darth vader
Shaak Ti is superior to Tobirama on the most important factor: SHE KNOWS WHEN TO RUN. She would never have tried to attack alive Rinnegan Madara, not after seeing him tanking 9 BIJUU at once while blind. Jedi are humble enough to run away when victory isn't possible.
Has Shaak-Ti ever deflected lightning with her saber before? I know that it would be an instinctual thing as Obi-Wan was able to deflect Dooku's lightning, but Dooku's lightning at the end of AotC was just him showing off to Kenobi, trying to turn him to the dark side. Bane's lightning in this match-up was a full explosive torrent on the order of what Sidious used against Windu, I don't think Shaak-Ti could survive it, I don't think her defenses against it would hold up long enough for her to think of a way out, I don't even think she'd have time to react and would be a charred husk on the floor. Well done for an interesting portrayal of how ingenious and quick thinking Shaak-Ti is and how sometimes that still isn't enough, though.
Y do u make this vid everyone knows darth bane would destroy shaak ti
Destroy? Definitely not.
Shaak Ti has the capabilities from her shown feats alone to prove a threat to Darth Bane. Statements of her abilities from novel and comic sources suggest her to be among the strongest of the jedi (Not Mace or Yoda tier by any means, but who is, other than Sidious really--All 3 would defeat her, to be clear).
She fended off Grievous while disadvantaged, and in their second KNOWN confrontation (Battle of Coruscant, according to the novel Labyrinth of Evil), Stass Allie and Shaak Ti forced Grievous to temporarily fall back, and when Shaak Ti was later injured during the battle against the magna-guards, she still put up a fight against Grievous for a few moments, but was ultimately noted as "Too fatigued/weakened to defeat the General". The only one who has ever, EVER won a straight up fight with Grievous was Mace Windu. Even Obi-Wan would have been no match for Grievous, but he let himself become a vessel for the force, and allowed it to guide him against Grievous, which was still an incredibly close fight anyways.
The Novel and Comic adaptations of The Force Unleashed show Shaak Ti being considerably more powerful and skilled than Galen Marek. Her defeat resulting in an "assumed double suicide attempt", or her simply dropping her guard after believing the fight to be over--depending on the source you look at. In the Novel, it was a pure light-saber fight, though Galen was using force lightning to cause the Sarlacc to jolt, making Ti lose her edge in Ataru and Makashi--yet she still came incredibly close to killing Galen, but was suggested by Galen himself to have leaped into his blade during the last assault--possibly with the intention to have both die right then and there. In the comic, Shaak Ti overwhelmed Galen with the force after an exchange with their light-sabers, and when she believed her victory was assured, she dropped her guard and was hit by a Force Repulse, fatally injuring her. It's pretty clear from both these sources that Shaak Ti was considerably more powerful than someone like Galen Marek at her peak. He just got incredibly lucky.
During the Clone Wars, she fought Grievous several times, but the only two times we see them fight in Legends had her at a complete disadvantage. She also defeated Artel Darc (Unknown character now, due to her novel being cancelled) with assumed ease. Artel Darc was considered by Dooku to be one of his most cunning and powerful dark acolytes, including Ventress.
Other sources outright allude to her having fought Darth Vader (Operation Night-fall), though details are never explored. One source stated that her experience and skill allowed her to outmaneuver Vader, and thus avoid death at his hands, and escaped.
Obviously, Bane would defeat Ti, but none of the Jedi he has fought are at the level Shaak Ti is. She'd give Bane a run for his money until he gets enraged.
I still come back to watch this 🙌🏻
Wow, while I usually don't agree with your sith evaluations, I think your research on Bane is very spot on. It's not what most others say, but it seems like the closest thing to his real power. The only one I think is better is your Darth Tenebrous evaluation.
Ironically I hate Shaak Ti in Force Unleashed (considering that's probably her most well known appearance), but overall I love her character and her fighting style. I especially liked her in both TCWs, but was disappointed she didn't appear that often in the later one (still had good scenes with her though). Anyways, this was definitely one of your best Vs. videos. I like Shaak Ti more than Bane, but that doesn't mean I'd change your video at all. Good job.
Evan,This is got to be my favorite versus match(so far)keep up the good work and looking forward to see what shaak and kits' opponents might be
Bro c'mon it's almost been 2 months. Post another video or make a video saying you've been busy. Stuff happens an I get it but c'mon man
While I do regrettably agree with the verdict I must say that the way this video was conducted is above and beyond the quality of the rest of The Council. This video also demonstrates the thorough research that you did as both characters aren't particularly too mainstream. Thank you so much for your hard work, you have given me a great deal to think about.
honestly you could get Ti above if you wanted. Quite easily
To say that Darth Bane employ's manipulation and not enginuity is a sociological argument. In Darth Bane's time' manipulation is most effective against his adversaries, he was sufficient against the heavy hitters of his time. In Shak Ti's time' combat is more technical and devisive, she adapted her fighting techniques to the way combat is waged in her time. The same is true of Darth Bane, if Shak Ti was born in Darth Bane's time' she would have been his apprentice.
I would love to see an actuall case made for Bane, rather than "Evan is biased idiot/asshole" repeated over and over again. Is anyone up to the task?
You and Antoine are tied as my favorite VS' youtubers, it's probably because i can listen to your videos while getting ready for bed, or the fact that you both are excellent speakers and have great voices I don't really know, but keep up the great work!
How about Bane Vs Anakin?
ROTS OBI-WAN vs Kyle Katarn
Xar Kun vs Mace Windu
Qui-Gon vs Asoka
what's the music at the end please
I have not watched the video yet or looked at the comments but I would be SHOCKED if Bane does not win. I'll be back in a hour and a half to see if I was wrong......but I doubt it
Nova, you did a amazing job with this video.,no offense to the other versus creators but this was one of the best I've heard. the narrative part made you really visualize the battle between the two. really enjoyed it you know your stuff. keep up the good work
If you do Jedi vs Jedi, I want to see Shaak Ti be Plo Koon. They are both on par with clone wars Obi-Wan and Anakin imo.
No they are not. Plo is solidly below Obi Wan. Ti is a tier below Obi Wan. And Anakin is considerably beyond all involved in this list
I'm just listening to your Bane introduction here, and it makes me feel rather interested! I'm sensing a positive judgement of him here...
What about Kyle Katarn vs. Luke Skywalker? That would be cool/
This one isn't up for debate. If shaak ti can't even hold a candle to dooku and general grievous, what makes her think she can last more than 10 seconds against the likes of darth bane or darth sidious?
Ik this is 4 years ago but.. this is a perfect fight and a super long video and needs to be made into even a small book
Could we please see Obi-Wan vs Palpatine (you pic which era)
Loved the battle part and I agree. But just so I got it strait, Ti ran away in the end of the fight? Definitely seems in her character, not every duel ends in death.
Yes.
You should work on your metric, 2 meters is exactly 6'8"
hahahhahahahahaha. Shak Ti would carve him up with ease. She has far more versatility compared to Darth Zannah & doesn't need Sith magics to destroy him. Just th name of BANE overhypes him, and yeah I don't subscribe to Grievous having beaten Shake Ti. Lucas and Filoni can't have it both ways. Her death wasn't cannon until the updated clone wars and all we knew is what happened in Force Unleashed. And don't tell me Bane is superior to Starkiller. He's not. His OP Force abilities are being used this time against an experienced force user. And the more you intensify your voice doesn't lend weight to ridiculous arguments...for example, if you've ever done ANY serious fencing of any kind, OBVIOUS defensive blocks ARE a serious problem and they can be anticipated and easily overcome with feints and carried speed & angles. Ti is FAR faster than anything he has encountered, his apprentice included. He had to use his Force powers to actually defeat his master. Ofc he wasn't at his peak then... but nevertheless. Ti is beyond him.
I have a few ideas for the versus series:
1. Galen Marek vs Obi Wan Kenobi
2. Darth Malgus vs Anakin Skywalker
3. Anakin Skywalker vs Darth Bane
4. Revan vs Darth Vader.
5.*Maul and Dooku and Vader vs Sidious
6. Satele Shan vs Starkiller (TFS2)
What do you think?
really loved this ep. I would love to see satele shan vs anyone, a collaboration would be cool.
I enjoy listening to the matches thought up through youtube, but this one is very satisfying & exciting.
Thank you for uploading!
Evan, this was very well done!
The analysis was spot on and, I must say that your use of Madara Uchiha and Tobirama Senju for comparisons made a lot of sense. Also, I've never been a fan of narrative style but Reti4's brilliant reading and the depth of description, combined with the use of images, painted a beautiful picture and had me hooked the entire time. I personally came down of Bane winning long before I watched the whole thing but this was so close that as things kept being pointed out, I found myself questioning that a bit and thus, made for the first VS Match, in a long time, that I was truly excited to see how it would end.
Overall, this entire video's creation of a vivid picture and use of detailed explanations show the fruit of your labors. I can only wait for the next big thing you come up with.
Thank you for doing such good work and sharing it with us!
Thank you. That's very flattering and I'm glad too see everything that went into this match turned out well.