@@thordgensec imo I think Traya takes that one, mostly because Ben has no answer to her unorthodox fighting style and force abilities except for from 3, which would only delay til the end
I love how these videos aren't just VS battles. I've been introduced to ALOT of legends cannon through these videos. Thank you for giving me the star wars content Disney doesn't want to give me
Winged Paragon Darth Nihlus is the only example of anybody using it on the fly. Most combatants need to take at least 5-10 min to gather energy. Unless it's a game mechanic (Jedi Knight and KOTOR seris for example)
I love matchups like these, because at first glance, Kreia is more powerful, bit Jerec has the right skills to counter her power and defeat her. Just goes to show that he don't need to be the most powerful, simply have the right skills
+cb4allstar4 She was neither in the end all she wanted was to basically kill the force and any knowledge of it because she hated predetermined destinies
St0ne69 Nope, she hated the Jedi and the sith, and didn't find any way to be the way of the force and knowledge in it was all that mattered and abided by her own standards. AKA a Grey. The true original Grey rogue.
@@malmasterson3890 "Because I hate the Force. I hate that it seems to have a will, that it would use us to achieve some measure of balance when countless lives are lost. But in you I see the potential to see the Force die, to turn away from it's will, and that is what pleases me. You are beautiful to me, Exile. A dead spot in the Force. An emptiness in which it's will might be denied." - Darth Traya. Stone is right, she couldn't care less about the Jedi or Sith, light or dark, she found such titles meaningless. She was neither and yet held both as what they were, pieces of a whole and in the end saw the true enemy as the Force itself.
@@jeremygilbert7989 Yeah, I know. This was a long time ago when I wasn't as well versed as I am now. Even so, no one knows everything, but thx for this anyway.
Actually a Grey Jedi is more unorthodox and not bound by the will of the Jedi Council, rather than someone who’s able to balance both the light and dark sides of the Force.
I thought I was the only one. Been watching this on average about once a month since it was released. The only one of your videos that I have watched a similar number of times is Anakin vs Grievous. That one is also one of your best. The narration is phenomenal.
So, in summation, if we were to give these 2 battle preparation, Traya will likely be able to best Jerec as her more well developed and subtle manipulations manage to outclass his and he would be able to nullify his strengths and best him while he's down. However, in a fair one on one contest with no prep time, she will come up short because none of her strongest powers could best his and her best bet was to sink into the shadows and catch him by surprise, the problem with that is that Jerec is well experienced in fighting from the shadows and would force Traya to fight him head on, and though she'd put up an intense fight, she'd ultimately be overwhelmed and defeated.
+MPPRODUCTIONSger Agreed, Legends is much better. It was not full of contradictions like people think nor was it convoluted either. The EU was not 100% perfect as it did have a few bad stories here and there (I'm looking at you The Crystal Star) as well as a few minor continuity errors that were easily explained and fixed by Lucasfilm. The EU added so much history and exciting lore to Star Wars. I do like the New Canon, but to me it needs more originality for me to love it as much as Legends.
+MPPRODUCTIONSger Well, i think it´s a little unfair to compare like 40 years of material in all formats with a new continuity that started 2 years ago...
+Mauro Sanchez Agreed. I'm kind of okay with mixing the new and some of the old. Kind of like in a blender pretty much XD In other words, bringing some of my favorite stuff into headcanon for sure while being able to ignore the stuff from the old stories that I didn't like.
Excellent! Defeating Jerec was a quest that consumed a good portion of my youth, and I'm playing through KOTOR 2. I'm glad to see you bring Jerec out for this one.
I don't think you've done Kreia enough justice regarding what she IS or what she is capable of, let alone her skill-set. First and foremost, she was HARDLY Sith during the last moments of her life. If anything she holds a great abhorrence towards the Sith. In some aspects she despised the Sith far more than the Jedi. She found that such "passions and fears" are incredibly manipulateable and wanted such traits to be discarded. She was displeased that the Sith took dominance as a right rather than a goal. She despises slaughter for the sake of it. That didn't go well with Sion and Nihlus. Unlike Palpatine who spend YEARS and YEARS to manipulate his way to the high offices of the Republic and transformed it into an Empire, he was too quick to preen like a rooster and claim his dominance. Kreia made a very astute note that was not mentioned. "To have the Jedi Masters brought low by such a failure, there is no victory in that. To defeat the masters in combat is one thing. To defeat them without striking a blow. THAT was my hope." She wished to show that the Jedi and Sith a way that inspires power that would last both in life and longevity. Palpatine ruled with Iron Fist and a network of information and terror. A cliché that proved time and again to be felled with rebellion. The Jedi Masters during the time of the Exile would actually have been slaughtered if not for the efforts of Kreia who wished to end the efforts of Nihlus and Sion who wanted to see them destroyed. Don't get me wrong, she didn't do it for them, but rather a world consumed in pain and apathy is a pointless one. Kreia caused the near end of the Jedi Order and the Republic didn't even KNOW about it. Palpatine was discovered much more quickly than he anticipated and it was pure divine luck that he was able to pull off an Imperial Conversion given Mace Windu had him at his mercy. ...And either the Jedi Code ironically made Anakin stop him, or his own selfish desires is up for debate. But Kreia knew she was going to die, she didn't try to stop it. She merely made the playing field level for life to go on before she passed for both Jedi and Sith. Time and again the Sith mentality turns on itself. The Jedi who have time and again spoke of idealistic wisdom but with an arrogance that undermined their efforts. During the Mandalorian Wars, during the Jedi Civil War. During the Jedi Purge and the Sith Triumvirate. Kreia knew this and said herself. "To submit yourself to a belief is to be able to betray it. It's something the Sith or Jedi never truly learn. One quickly learns that the Jedi Code does not give all the answers. ( I believe that is also in extension to the Sith code as well.) If you seek to truly understand, you need the contrast, not adherence to a single idea. To do otherwise would make you surrender yourself to the belief so much that belief will always rule you." And honestly, I don't even think Kreia was even waiting to gather energy when the Exile met the Masters. I think if she were to enter the chamber with Meetra (Exile) she would have to waste energy to meddle with the minds of 3 Jedi Council Masters. If the Exile chose a darker path it's revealed the same kind of drain ability is used almost INSTINCTIVELY. If you played KOTOR 2, you know that those masters are incredibly difficult. Energy did not play a single part in that ability. I am pretty sure when you gather all the Jedi masters together on Dantioone to defeat them you do not use that ability, either because Meetra's unawareness of that ability or rather the INABILLITY to use it. Which begs the question, if it does not use energy, and it requires a great deal of experience of usage, would that instead mean it is an ability that Kreia is in fact most adept with considering she used it on 3 Jedi Masters? Also regarding her lightsaber combat skills. Granted they are basic, rudimentary even. But you also forget her Tra'kata skills. Using three lightsabers solely on the force, she can use Tra'kata even to that extension and in truth to little risk towards herself if there was enough distance away from her. You can't hit NOTHING behind a lightsaber that is fighting you itself. She would be able to tear Jeric to pieces regarding that. In a straight up Lightsaber duel with 1 v 1 using one Lightsaber, you'd be absolutely right she would be slaughtered. She does have a large array of force abilities and true they range from the Light, Dark and the otherwise unaffiliated. But to say it causes her to stretch thin? Variety in the arcane is HARDLY a hindrance. The fact her philosophy encourages one to develop powers no matter it's origin or purpose is in fact Strength that Jeric did not have. He was driven by the Dark Side, which mean he in fact had a preference in the arcane that fell out of the Light Side. Kreia is more balanced and able to meet any threat that steps before her.
didn't she like know all the secrets of both the jedi and sith of her time and teachings as well? that's a huge amount of knowledge she has their that she could use to her advantage over any sith or jedi!
That's incorrect. She might have at one point despised the Jedi Order for her Exile over the actions of her student, but she sees the Jedi Order as a piece of a much larger puzzle after the betrayal she suffered from Sion and Nihlus. In the game when you kill the Jedi Masters she LECTURES THE HELL out of you because of how simple minded a Dark Side Meetra Surik was. She even went to the point of saying this exact phrase. "You misunderstand me, I did not want the Jedi dead...defeated, perhaps. I merely wished to show them, that they, and their teachings were wrong! To be brought low by such a failure, there is no victory in that."
I have watched this probably 50 times. This is one of those videos I wish I could give more than one upvote. Excellent contented, solid analysis, thoughtful conclusion backed by established points and evidence. Thank you for this beautiful essay. Well done sir.
I love your conclusion on Kreia. I love Kreia and her character as much as the next guy, but everyone just overhypes her actual power so much. It's clear she's not a combat specialist, especially with a lightsaber, and she prefers subtle indirect attacks. To defeat an enemy without striking a blow.
I strongly agree with the verdict on this one. Jerec is probably one of the most grossly underrated eu dark Jedi. It has to be remembered that jerec intended to consume the force nexus on Rusaan. Consume, not leech off of. Qu rahn himself described the severity of that situation as jerec becoming a creature that the universe itself had never seen. That he would be able to destroy a star system with only a whisper. If Treya spent time leeching power off a force nexus without fully consuming it, then she doesn't even hold a candle to jerec. It was clear to me that he could have probably done a lot more with treya's force nexus than she could.
While Holmes' injury played a major part in that confrontation, the parallels still proved useful. In D&D terms, while the wizard may prove more versatile and if prepared can shut down almost any opponent, the sorcerer who is built to fight another caster will tend to overwhelm through force and attrition.
Impressive. Most impressive. We finally got to see a matchup with two similar, yet stark different manipulators that utilize the Force firstly, with lightsabers at the ready. I almost forgot what Jerec was capable of as it was YEARS since I played his game, while I've played KOTOR II for more recent years (especially with the Restored Content via Steam). Good job! *****
I come back and watch this video so often it’s insane- possibly due to my obsession with Kreia/Traya, as well as my sheer enjoyment of your videos and oratory skills. However, my one and only thing I notice every time I rewatch this video is that within Traya’s physical capabilities section, you did not touch on the fact that Kreia tanked an absolute *bastard* of a beating from Sion after already being severed from the force by Nihilus, meaning she did not have the benefits of force augmentation to allow her to endure such hits. Taking a beating the way she did from Sion, being lifted off the ground by her face, having her head smashed into solid stone, and then taking direct punches to the face and head from a physical tank as an elderly woman without the force, not only surviving but being able to run and escape seemingly without any lasting damage to herself in the long run. This I see as a physical attribute that Jerec has not achieved and cannot match as a baseline, considering Sion was easily in far better shape than Jerec (despite being a walking corpse) with a propensity for vicious, brutal physical attacks. Traya having this feat whilst disconnected from the force, let alone with it, is a huge feat on her part. This possibly just comes across as a rant of my own, but it’s something I noticed over the years watching this video and my sheer obsession for Traya and her story.
Whenever I find myself not being able to tell the forest from the trees, I simply mow the forest down. This was a great match up. Looking forward to more videos featuring Jerec.
For 2 characters that I have no interest in, you certainly made this a fascinating watch, Inquisitor Jerek in particular. I enjoyed your work immensely, good job Jensaarai
Great video. Amazing level of analysis and detail for two classic early 2000 characters who were sadly fading away into obscurity even before Disney bought Star Wars.
Hey Jensaarai, this was a really fun one to listen to, so many variables to consider and I thought you did a great job of fleshing them all out. Thanks!
Two of my favorite Star Wars characters ever, too bad for Traya, she is my favorite one. But if she had to be defeated by someone, it might as well be Jerec. Thanks for the awesome video. Also, that was one awesome analogy to A Game of Shadows.
+FalloutCultist I like Sith Lords like Darth Sidious, Darth Plagueis or Darth Traya. They all fall under the same category of Sith; they're manipulators. They're more than capable of entering into the fight themselves, but that's not how they operate. They prefer to stay on the sidelines and convince/ manipulate others into doing the work for them. To use a chess analogy, Meetra Surik is the king, the most important piece in the game. But Kreia is the player; the one moving and controlling the pieces.
+SirJedi Consular I'd say Meetra is more like the Queen. Superior to every other piece on the board but ultimately as easily manipulated as a lowly pawn.
Voji this notion is UTTERLY RIDICULOUS. Darth Traya would ANNIHILATE Jerec! No contest between these two. I've agreed with a lot of his vs verdicts but after this, after taking over an hour, my disappointment cannot be overstated.
@@sithkingphyler2363 no, Jerec who was only slightly below Vader and tailored to undermine a more potent Darksider holds the edge. She'd fail in a cold drop in fight. What you forget is that she'd never willingly put herself in that fight. She's not on Jerec's level as a combatant but better as a strategist.
This is my favorite video of yours. The music and perspective you crafted for Jerec is truly unique and novel, the analogy of Holmes and Moriarty is exquisite and using his soundtrack as Jerec's essential theme song is brilliant. This carefully crafted and researched piece of work put together truly made a character out of Jerec and a underrated one at that. I hope you expand to other avenues of content, thank you for timeless classics Connor, long time viewer since 2012.
Two of my favorite Star Wars characters of all time! The perfect match up. I love your deductions, and analyses. I'm not sure if I totally agree with the outcome. But I understand why you came to that conclusion. Loved it all the same!
I have enjoyed your videos for about a year and you introduced me to evannova, and reti. The love I have for star wars is something yall strengthen every video.
I love how you compared this fight to that of Sherlock Holmes and Moriarty. seriously that is just brilliant proving that you put a lot of thought into this match up and have a great understanding fo it.
I love the line “ The schemer living in an era of warlords, and the warlord living in an era of schemers.” It shows their dichotomy beautifully and highlights why this match up appealed to your sensibilities.
that trakata style of turning it off and one reminds me of Japanese swordsmanship of Iaijutsu sheathing and unsheathing after every strike also those fan films intrigue me
That's what I always thought as well. Even tv tropes mentions trakata in the literature examples in the examples section of the page "Iaijutsu Practitioner." Also reminds me that I'd like to see Antoine Bandele eventually do a "Which Lightsaber Form" video for a character who uses iaijutsu (or the other quick-drawing arts, battojutsu and iaido), such as Vergil, Himura Kenshin, and Zatoichi the blind swordsman.
Thanks for the video Jensaarai1, I've been really looking forward to seeing Traya in a video. Although in a way I was worried she wouldn't be paid the respect she deserves. You did not disappoint however, and it is one of the best videos I have ever seen :)
Not sure if any of the council has made a video of this yet, but I think Darth Malgus vs Plo Koon would be interesting. Super aggressive form five specialist vs super defensive force five specialist. But both are also comfortable defending or attacking. So I think that would be a fun one to do :P
@Carl Coriell WRONG! Traya has taught the Exile how to defeat Jedi masters in the mist of battle and what she knows about all categories of lightsaber combat.
@@nasiquedayes4805 he literally said "doesnt mean". A teacher can obviously fertilize and water seeds into great trees but that doesnt mean they themselves are equivalent to those great trees. Traya as a combatant is formidable but people overestimate her combat abilities. Without prep time, Traya will find herself completely in the backfoot because her usual set of abilities are not anything new to Jerec nor are they something he cant protect against.
@@khalduras784 Traya Has Found Herself In Situation's That She Has Not Prepared For Multiple Times .....Her Skill With a Blade Far Out Classes Jerec's As She Has Knowledge Of All Forms But Uses 1-3. Her Mastery Of Soresu And Makashi Together Would Destroy Jerec In Combat Plus She Has Shatter Point Which Literally Show's An Opponent's Weakness That She Could Manipulate...
Very interesting comparison made between the two force wielders and the two of the greatest minds every placed in front of one another, I must say this battle was one that had a great detail and quality to it. Great job
Traya was a duelist, she was not only a trickster, she was a makashi master ,jerec has absolutely nothing that traya can't counter, and she has more, i don't think you were objective in this match, she was more skilled and that is that, no way a lower caliber like jerec could compete with her force power, he was very craft, but he was not flexible enough, and traya managed to manipulate all o her contemporaries with her force telepathy, erasing her existence from the whole council, even the grand master, traya could just turn jerec in a drowling idiot since he Never showed any defense against telepathic attacks, especially not against someone on traya level.
+Lucas Melo what i don't understand is that he gave said that Darth Traya is decremented by her dark side degredation when he doesn't mention Jerec's at all. Also, he gave Jerec the win because you assumed there would be a battle. He said that Traya was a tactician beyond her time. She influenced both the Sith and the Jedi, and I don't see her going in on a one on one fight, it isn't her style. She would lure Jerec with promises of holocrons or the like and than after lengthy concentration kill him with force drain by decepting Jerec into letting his guard down. A cunning superpower doesn't fight a warlord, they wait until they can strike ensuring they will be victorious.
+John smith And that's just the thing about a head-on duel on equal ground. This is why manipulating someone into doing something stupid gets more difficult. And besides - would you really think of trying to manipulate someone while they're constantly barraging you with lightsaber strikes and Force abilities?
I also think Darth Traya's abilities are enough to fend of anything Jerec has and would probably beat him. This analysis is really indepth and enjoyable nevertheless
+John smith That's how I'm looking at things. Put them in the chessboard Jerec would contende really well listening to classical music, touchstones, and great food (almost in a Hannibal Lector kind of a way) but Traya would win. In combat, again this video is so well argued and polished. Jerec hunts force wielders and optimized himself for Darksiders as well as Jedi. Traya is not a combative force wielder. She is more general purpose. So yeah I see Jerec winning. Also, I do think Jerec could beat Dooku actually. Edit: Thanks for the love again Jensarrai1!!!
no jerec is more likely on a darth maul and count dooku level. traya is like on vaders level and speaking of that it is said that jerec was never able to beat vader. Man this versus serious ain't even fair jerec would get bested in just all ways. Traya is just a better force user period
Honestly, based on this video and comparing it to others, Jerec might be stronger than Dooku, if only slightly. Dooku did not invent a technique like Force Destruction and he didn't seem to advance his Dark Side powers to quite the level that Jerec has; Force Lightning aside, most of his other abilities were just the same ones he mastered as a Jedi, simply applied in more aggressive ways. That makes sense since Dooku only joined the Sith about a decade before his death, while Jerec had been studying the Dark Side even while a Jedi Master and then spent twice as long as Dooku operating as a Dark Jedi with access to Sith secrets. It's a negligible difference, and Dooku obviously balances it out with his far superior lightsaber abilities, but it would be an interesting match since in a pure Force battle I could see Jerec coming out on top. Not to mention, despite being roughly the same age, Jerec seems to be in much better physical shape and likely won't tire as quickly. So despite them being roughly equal, it's really a matter of tactics and skill vs power, and Jerec is the power here.
+Jensaarai1 I do agree that Traya=Jerec=Dooku in terms of force power. But in terms of knowledge, skill, and variety, Jerec+Traya have Dooku beat. I believe Dooku could beat Traya, but lose to Jerec.
I think you need to grammar check your comment, and take some context into account. Traya was a grand schemer who would give Palpatine and Plagueis a run for their money, she just didn't have their power in the Force. Jerec was in a similar situation, he was no where near as powerful as his superiors. Instead of relying upon grand manipulations he decided to optimize himself for a possible confrontation with Palpatine or Vader. His approach was geared towards single combat while Traya was prepared for the long game. In Traya's ideal scenario she would never need to get personally involved, playing her enemies against one another while covertly building her own power base.
not relevant to the debate but Wa7chfac3 Historian made me think of this and how awesome would it be if Traya was somehow alive during the time Palpatine was around and Traya had to use her scheming tactics to undermine Palpatine's run for Emperor. I would absolutely love to see Traya and Palpatine go head to head but in like a battle of the mind rather than a straight up duel.
With how easily Kreia was able to turn sion to her side, as well as ripping the force out of three Jedi masters at once, and Kreia’s entire understanding of the sith, Jedi, AND the other full breadth of the force, and her pure genius with and without the force- not to mention her ability to see the future in Malachor- I’m afraid even in a direct unprepared fight Treya/Kreia would read him like a book and mop the floor with him. Imagine being broken by a new Jedi
Jen, when I saw that you made a new vid I instantly stopped all other things I was doing to watch this and holy crap I was not disappointed. Out of all you vs vid guy's, I look forward to your video's the most. Keep up the fantastic work!
Darth Traya would manipulate Jerec because she can be just so influential towards anyone. Jerec's powers are nothing superior compared to Darth Traya's manipulative/influential powers.
@@raicattivo Plus even though he isn't a true Sith, I don't think Jerec would fall for her deception since he is a greedy person that doesn't care and has knowledge of the same skills that Traya and most matches are combatants being dropped in Cold so Mental Manipulation wouldn't have much effect since Traya has to gather Energies to ensure Chaos And Deception will run rampant
@@ToadsarebetterthanFrogs WRONG! Traya meditating to power is headcanon she instantly used the same power against the Exile in the Darkseid of the story so that dismantles the theory that she must meditate. With all due respect its WRONG! Traya mental power is on superior or equal levels to Palpatin
THIS is my new favorite video of yours. I learned a lot about these two, even though I figured myself to be fairly knowledgeable about them already. Interested to see future match-ups for both of them!
Jensaari1, you are over playing the importance of Traya's hand. You seem to be forgetting that as she said to sion, when he told her she was a fool for returning as he wouldn't spare her again, that she let him cut off her hand to teach him a lesson that he failed to learn, which was that his power was as irrelevant as the power of her hand. She then proceeded to force choke him like it was nothing, with the arm of the missing hand, might I add. She was also still suffering from the fact that her apprentices stripped her of the force at the time he cut it off. This duel however is her at her full power, not her on the harbinger. Further, you down play her powers saying that they are too spread thin and she has to meditate to gather them strong enough to do those things. She was not meditating to gather power. She was hiding her presence from the jedi while simultaneously using the force to listen in to their conversation, because true triumph for her would only come from them seeing that her teachings were correct without her apprentice even raising a blade to defeat them, which would not have happened if they knew she was present. Furthermore, if you think that she needed to meditate to instantly kill three full jedi council masters without lifting a blade, then it is a save assumption that killing one inquisitor, however good, without meditation would not be hard for her. The reason that she was taken down by her apprentices wasn't because she didn't prepare. It was because as she said, there are techniques within the force against which there is no defense. No defense means no defense. These were techniques, however, that they learned from her. It is made very clear in Kotor 2 that she taught the sith all they knew. "What do you wish to know... that what the greatest of the sith lords know of evil, they learned from me..." is only one quote from the game that indicates this. She was the reigning dark lord of the sith, and for good reason. The only one that could have defeated her was Nihilus who had taken her own technique to an extreme level that was destroying himself or the exile who her techniques could not be used on. To be honest because there is no defense to these techniques she may even be able to defeat sith more powerful than her, like sidious. And if she wanted to, she would have easily built her own galaxy wide sith empire long before palpatine was even thought of, but that wasn't her goal, as you know.
It's more than fair to say that Jedi and Sith at the power level of Yoda, Sidious, Windu, Anakin, Luke, Dooku, Revan, etc could resist her sever ability, as I'm sure by that era a defense was developed against it and these masters are all at least around her strength level if not stronger, but Jerec? Hell no. I personally think Traya is quite underrated, especially in this video, but I really don't understand why. She's definitely a top 10 Sith for being able to so easily sever 3 Jedi council members from the Force and kill them at the same time, but I wouldn't put those guys combined up there with Mace or Dooku, much less Yoda, Sidious, Plagueis, or a Skywalker. She could probably hold her own with just about anyone, especially with Force abilities, and would kick Jerec's ass, especially with Force abilities.
John Watson IV That's highly unlikely. If you remember the way her power worked was basically by tapping into the force bonds that are created between all living things, as the force flows and penetrates, etcetera and so forth through all living beings. Instead of bolstering others through these bonds how force users naturally do, she took the methods of the ancient sith and instead took their life, force power, strength, etc. Because the force in the star wars universe naturally and freely flows through all living things there is no defense to this power, and there cannot be one. The only way they could win, is to do it to her before she does it to them. And since none of them are shown to have known this power, its a foregone conclusion. Also each time she does this to someone she steals their power, which is why nihilus was so strong and hungered for it so much to the point that he could devour whole worlds worth of force users. Even the strongest forcers (that do not know this technique) are not powerful enough to face millions of force users at once and win. So unless any of those beings completely rejects the force like the exile did, which isn't going to happen or become inanimate objects, they cannot avoid her power. And besides all that, these techniques were long gone and forgotten by the movie era.
Correct Kyewa Fwtghs. Darth Traya did use a more ancient sith method of force drain that had been long since forgotten and which there was no defense against and can never be because like you stated all life is touched by the force.
Hey Jen Took awhile but I dug through my collection of the vehicle guides and yes it confirms Jerec as a Makashi user in his character profile "A Former Jedi and a Master of the Makashi form a lightsaber combat, Jedi master Jerec was an archaeologist for the Order"
If you had listened you would have known that he could not find a copy of the fact file and needed confirmation, though he proceeded assuming it was right I'm confirming it
A very interesting analogy between Traya/Jerec and Holmes/Moriarty. That was my favorite part of the versus video! Just out of curiosity, do you think Revan and/or the Exile might have analogous characters in the Sherlock Holmes universe?
Its been a while since this video first came out, but Ive been wondering. If we gave Traya prep time (say 1 weeks worth), would she stomp Jerec? Based on Jensarrai1 and my own analysis of Darth Traya, I see her as someone who is incredibly strong as is, but with prep time she slaughters just about anyone.
Actually, it is quite interesting to me that you pointed out that you were originally planning to use Count Dooku in this, considering the fact that Dooku always seemed to be a bit inspired by Jerec. The similarities were there in a lot of ways to the point where I wondered if Dooku was at least partially inspired by Jerec. Incidentally, thank you for using Jerec as he is one of the characters that I thought really could be used in one of these videos.
can you add Inquisitor jerec into more videos pls. I find him very interesting since he is ok in lightsaber combat while his force abilities are amazing and I find his tactic of using the force to bothe help him bring an awe inspiring onslaught in combat and weaken his enemies pretty cool. I find jedi are too focused on lightsaber combat when they can develop abilities that make life easier. so If I was a jedi I would make force abilities my main task and even if it means my lightsaber combat styles are just getting by.
An awesome video and a match up I would have never seen coming! Is there any chance we would get to see another post-Endor villain such as Desann show up in the Versus Series later down the line?
Ive rewatched this multiple times and think ive finally come around to your verdict. Definitely prefer Traya as a character and a force wielder but she isnt suited for combat like Jerec is and in a straight fight would fall short. Darth Traya versus Darth Plagueis however would be an excellent versus to see. Especially if both master schemers had time to analyse one another before coming to blows, using everything at their disposal beyond just their personal combative skills. Power base vs power base
+Jibarhi Jones I don't think she should've received any name. I'm far more interested in playing the Exile and Revan without bullcrap canon genders, endings ect. than reading about it.
A near-flawless analysis, old friend (Traya used Drain Knowledge on Atton Rand)! Somehow, I knew Jerec would win this! Meanwhile, I can see you've used a lot of music from the _Game of Shadows_ soundtrack. Makes sense while comparing Traya and Jerec to Holmes and Moriarty.
Jensaarai1, I own a copy of issue 27 of Star Wars the official starships and vehicles collection, and I can indeed confirm that jerec was Makashi master. It's on page 29. Which is as follows.. Not all Jedi died in the great jedi purge instituted by emperor palpatine. A few were turn to the dark side, becoming inquisitors and hunting their former allies and any with Force potential. A former Padawan to Jedi Master Jocasta nu, and a master of the Makashi form of lightsaber combat, Jedi Master Jerec was an archaeologist for the order, seeking out lost knowledge. He was working in the unknown regions when the empire was declared and order 66 issued. His innate selfishness and arrogance made it easy for palpatine's a chance to turn Jerec, and he resumed his duties enthusiastically seeking out ancient Sith knowledge. His intention was to one day rule the Empire and the loss of palpatine and Vader at endor delighted him. Gathering a cadre of dark Jedi, Jerec sought out the valley of the Jedi on Ruusan, hoping to use its power to make himself invincible. Fortunately he was stopped and eventually killed by Kyle Katarn. Feel free to use this post as a source for any future videos involving Inquisitor Jerec.
+Jensaarai1 YES!! Two characters that are long overdue for a premier into the series! Thank you! Now for a suggestion: Do you think Rahm Kota VS Master Kavar would be possible?
Nice work this was a very interesting match up. I've been doing my own Versus Series thanks to you and your Jedi council for 2 years and I have yet to make a video this long. Thou I have been close by about 5 mins. Keep up the amazing work the more information you share the better.
I really don't like making them that long because then they become a nightmare to record and edit. But as I have gotten better at this I try to gather information for all pools of pockets of knowledge I can find. In some of my older videos people bring up in the comments facts and details that at the time I felt were not really all that important to mention. So if I were to redo some of them now there is a good chance that they would be longer. But thou my next match up Sephiroth Vs. Vergil is looking to be somewhat long (hopefully not as long as the last two videos) the matches I have picked for season 3 are from my point of view much more simpler so none of them have a chance of being anywhere near an hour long.
@@3TopicsReviewer length in regards to versus videos is a mixed bag, I personally have no problem with longer entries, in many ways I find them more thorough but many others don't prefer that style. Ultimately I view it as being the choice of the creator. If you/anyone else wants to make a longer video go for it, it's your channel when all is said and done.
I don't know enough of Jerec to say your bias or whatever, I do know that you did underplay which makes no sense, She clearly by her powers alone shows how well she understood and could control the force. Jerec's best and from what you said only real feats in this area is something he did while overpowered being close to the Jedi ruins, The second a new power he developed, That was probably just to make him an interesting bad guy, Maybe just the fact the writer thought he could add to force universe, But you also stated that power could be stopped by a power Traya possessed, She may not expect it, Maybe thinking its lightning, But I do believe she would have defended herself from it, And not relying on eyes would have been better equipped to deal with it than most, Her feats well out stretch what Jerec sounds like he was capable of, The fact he has feats against one Jedi master, And several lower level force users is not as good as taking out 3 Jedi masters despite how she did it, She always meditated, Being dropped in cold you can safely assume she was meditating before hand, She did not waste her time, Nor did she use power she did not need to, I would also like to add you put her a lot with count Dooku, And as much as I love the man, You do know she was very different from him, Given her uses of the force to his, As well as applications to it, Like I said not sure of Jerec, But by the sounds of it you built him up reading the comments and I know you underplayed Traya, As there were several feats of hers that honestly Jerec from what you said could not defend himself against, Wise people learn when they can, Fools learn when they must, Traya was wise, Jerec was a fool, Traya saw the world is it could be, Jerec saw his ambition, Who do you really think is winning this ? The person who is working to an end game, Or the guy who sees a one handed old woman ? Which is another thing you never factored in, His arrogance, I mean he was like Traya he used the force to see, Yet let Kyle live, Traya knew her role and excepted it, Hell she practically made it happen. There are the differences here, Much like the other video, I feel you may prefer one character over the other and let that maybe push you a little more to there side sadly. I really could not say who would win But I do feel your video did not do enough to convince me Jerec would, And you underplayed Traya to much for me to get a real sense or there skill levels. {0,0}
I agree with you completely on skill levels and specializations. if these two were gaged, dropped into a pit given a lightsaber each and told only one was going to ever leave, the one that trained to hunt Jedi would likely win... but like I compared in my comment, "but that is doing the same thing as a librarian and a mechanic brake down on the side of the road comparison. in that one situation he will win, but if he had to compete with her in any other way, and if those ways were allowed to change even those small shows of skill, she would win every time." and what are the dark side but manipulators? honestly, Jerec doesn't seem to be of the mind to run the galaxy, but to seek power. his flaw is in once he has power, he wouldn't know what to do with it because of his single-minded focus to obtain it. Kraia did not seek to have ultimate power, because obtaining power and never using power for a purpose is a loss of power because all your power is used to pursue more power you will never use for anything but to pursue more power. Jerec may be the stronger fighter, but he would never be anything more than that. Kraia was a Sith Lord, and to not let her use her abilities as such is to fail to understand the true objective of the sith.
hey Jensaari, I just thought of this as you started your opening description, given the similarities, what about Kreia/Traya vs An'ya Kuro. Both are very powerful and have had hands in the downfall of many students.
Thanks Jensaarai for one of the matches I've been waiting since I first started watching the Versus videos, keep the Good work BTW, as a recommendation how 'bout Lumiya vs Exar Kun? Or any opponent you can work with against good ol' Lumiya.
Hi! Amazing work as usual! Thank you for putting in the time. =} I was wondering, the story about Darth Traya from? Is there a comic series covering her story?
I know it’s a miss match but I think Darth Traya vs. Darth Caedus to be a really fun match. They have similar philosophies, strategies to fighting and a ridiculous amount of force powers favoring utility powers. I think it could make a good obvious conclusion video because of that character dynamic.
Excellent video Jensaarai1! Although when I read the title of the match-up, the first thing that popped into my mind was "Traya is gonna fkin die..." lol
However, as Jensaari pointed out, that was after extensive meditation so she could focus her power. The scenario Jensaari uses for his vs. matches is one where the opponents are engaging each other on a level playing field.
+Furious Sherman Exactly. If someone did something like that once you need to look at circumstances when it was pulled off. Like Bane's death field, Ventress Corpse Reanimation, Dark Side Tendrills of Zannath, and massive Sith Rituals (think Kun becoming a force ghost I guess).
Cale Boch Holy crap forgot about that one. But yeah, massive sith ritual requiring the assistance of dozens of other followers. Kyle Katarn spear of midnight black (only used it in valley of the jedi).
![[TH] 2024 PMSL SEA W3D1 | Fall | สัปดาห์ตัดสิน ทีมไปไฟนอล](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZBU3GyzqErI/mqdefault.jpg)
This turned out great friend. :)
@@thordgensec imo I think Traya takes that one, mostly because Ben has no answer to her unorthodox fighting style and force abilities except for from 3, which would only delay til the end
*clears throat*
*channels Lando*
Hello, what have we here?
+Antoine Bandele Antoine, you old smoothie
+Antoine Bandele Okay, who else read, or tried to read, this in Billy Dee's voice?
+SirJedi Consular I did
"Didn't, we just leave this party?"
+Antoine Bandele So classy.
I love how these videos aren't just VS battles. I've been introduced to ALOT of legends cannon through these videos. Thank you for giving me the star wars content Disney doesn't want to give me
Force Drain not useable in combat? Darth Nihilius disagrees.
Winged Paragon
Darth Nihlus is the only example of anybody using it on the fly. Most combatants need to take at least 5-10 min to gather energy. Unless it's a game mechanic (Jedi Knight and KOTOR seris for example)
Winged Paragon Darth Bane disagrees as well.
Winged Paragon no this would be
Force drain is not a combat technique
Nihilius: Hold my beer
Sarutorius Kaiser wasn’t darth bane near a dark side nexus when he used that drain thing though?
Greater Grievobeast 55 Yes. Darth Andeddu’s Temple on Prakith to be more precious.
I love matchups like these, because at first glance, Kreia is more powerful, bit Jerec has the right skills to counter her power and defeat her. Just goes to show that he don't need to be the most powerful, simply have the right skills
Kreia definitely had the most interesting philosophy because you can't even tell if she was a gray jedi or a "gray sith". One of a kind
+cb4allstar4 She was neither in the end all she wanted was to basically kill the force and any knowledge of it because she hated predetermined destinies
St0ne69 Nope, she hated the Jedi and the sith, and didn't find any way to be the way of the force and knowledge in it was all that mattered and abided by her own standards. AKA a Grey. The true original Grey rogue.
@@malmasterson3890 "Because I hate the Force. I hate that it seems to have a will, that it would use us to achieve some measure of balance when countless lives are lost. But in you I see the potential to see the Force die, to turn away from it's will, and that is what pleases me. You are beautiful to me, Exile. A dead spot in the Force. An emptiness in which it's will might be denied." - Darth Traya. Stone is right, she couldn't care less about the Jedi or Sith, light or dark, she found such titles meaningless. She was neither and yet held both as what they were, pieces of a whole and in the end saw the true enemy as the Force itself.
@@jeremygilbert7989 Yeah, I know. This was a long time ago when I wasn't as well versed as I am now. Even so, no one knows everything, but thx for this anyway.
Actually a Grey Jedi is more unorthodox and not bound by the will of the Jedi Council, rather than someone who’s able to balance both the light and dark sides of the Force.
I don't care if this was long, it was very informative and gave me bigger respect for Jerec. You truly speak as if you lived in their eras
I have watched this probably 50 or 60 times and it’s by far your best work.
Agreed. Jerec's Force Abilities are broken down so well, with both the background and practical run down.
I thought I was the only one. Been watching this on average about once a month since it was released.
The only one of your videos that I have watched a similar number of times is Anakin vs Grievous. That one is also one of your best. The narration is phenomenal.
@@hk-4738 it’s up there now to like 100-200 I sleep to it too haha
Here here
100% agreed
So, in summation, if we were to give these 2 battle preparation, Traya will likely be able to best Jerec as her more well developed and subtle manipulations manage to outclass his and he would be able to nullify his strengths and best him while he's down. However, in a fair one on one contest with no prep time, she will come up short because none of her strongest powers could best his and her best bet was to sink into the shadows and catch him by surprise, the problem with that is that Jerec is well experienced in fighting from the shadows and would force Traya to fight him head on, and though she'd put up an intense fight, she'd ultimately be overwhelmed and defeated.
+Shadow Warrior Your thoughts are exactly mine.
Darth Kyle LOL. welcome back after 4 years fucking chimp.
Kreia is effectively the Batman of the Star Wars franchise
And that's why the Legends continuity is so much better and the true star wars universe
+MPPRODUCTIONSger Agreed, Legends is much better. It was not full of contradictions like people think nor was it convoluted either. The EU was not 100% perfect as it did have a few bad stories here and there (I'm looking at you The Crystal Star) as well as a few minor continuity errors that were easily explained and fixed by Lucasfilm. The EU added so much history and exciting lore to Star Wars. I do like the New Canon, but to me it needs more originality for me to love it as much as Legends.
+MPPRODUCTIONSger Well, i think it´s a little unfair to compare like 40 years of material in all formats with a new continuity that started 2 years ago...
+Mauro Sanchez Agreed. I'm kind of okay with mixing the new and some of the old. Kind of like in a blender pretty much XD
In other words, bringing some of my favorite stuff into headcanon for sure while being able to ignore the stuff from the old stories that I didn't like.
+Mauro Sanchez you beat me to it.
+Mauro Sanchez Well even if compare the early works of Legends to canon Legends is way superior
Excellent! Defeating Jerec was a quest that consumed a good portion of my youth, and I'm playing through KOTOR 2. I'm glad to see you bring Jerec out for this one.
I don't think you've done Kreia enough justice regarding what she IS or what she is capable of, let alone her skill-set.
First and foremost, she was HARDLY Sith during the last moments of her life. If anything she holds a great abhorrence towards the Sith. In some aspects she despised the Sith far more than the Jedi. She found that such "passions and fears" are incredibly manipulateable and wanted such traits to be discarded. She was displeased that the Sith took dominance as a right rather than a goal. She despises slaughter for the sake of it. That didn't go well with Sion and Nihlus.
Unlike Palpatine who spend YEARS and YEARS to manipulate his way to the high offices of the Republic and transformed it into an Empire, he was too quick to preen like a rooster and claim his dominance. Kreia made a very astute note that was not mentioned. "To have the Jedi Masters brought low by such a failure, there is no victory in that. To defeat the masters in combat is one thing. To defeat them without striking a blow. THAT was my hope." She wished to show that the Jedi and Sith a way that inspires power that would last both in life and longevity.
Palpatine ruled with Iron Fist and a network of information and terror. A cliché that proved time and again to be felled with rebellion. The Jedi Masters during the time of the Exile would actually have been slaughtered if not for the efforts of Kreia who wished to end the efforts of Nihlus and Sion who wanted to see them destroyed. Don't get me wrong, she didn't do it for them, but rather a world consumed in pain and apathy is a pointless one.
Kreia caused the near end of the Jedi Order and the Republic didn't even KNOW about it. Palpatine was discovered much more quickly than he anticipated and it was pure divine luck that he was able to pull off an Imperial Conversion given Mace Windu had him at his mercy. ...And either the Jedi Code ironically made Anakin stop him, or his own selfish desires is up for debate. But Kreia knew she was going to die, she didn't try to stop it. She merely made the playing field level for life to go on before she passed for both Jedi and Sith.
Time and again the Sith mentality turns on itself. The Jedi who have time and again spoke of idealistic wisdom but with an arrogance that undermined their efforts. During the Mandalorian Wars, during the Jedi Civil War. During the Jedi Purge and the Sith Triumvirate. Kreia knew this and said herself. "To submit yourself to a belief is to be able to betray it. It's something the Sith or Jedi never truly learn. One quickly learns that the Jedi Code does not give all the answers. ( I believe that is also in extension to the Sith code as well.) If you seek to truly understand, you need the contrast, not adherence to a single idea. To do otherwise would make you surrender yourself to the belief so much that belief will always rule you."
And honestly, I don't even think Kreia was even waiting to gather energy when the Exile met the Masters. I think if she were to enter the chamber with Meetra (Exile) she would have to waste energy to meddle with the minds of 3 Jedi Council Masters.
If the Exile chose a darker path it's revealed the same kind of drain ability is used almost INSTINCTIVELY. If you played KOTOR 2, you know that those masters are incredibly difficult. Energy did not play a single part in that ability.
I am pretty sure when you gather all the Jedi masters together on Dantioone to defeat them you do not use that ability, either because Meetra's unawareness of that ability or rather the INABILLITY to use it. Which begs the question, if it does not use energy, and it requires a great deal of experience of usage, would that instead mean it is an ability that Kreia is in fact most adept with considering she used it on 3 Jedi Masters?
Also regarding her lightsaber combat skills. Granted they are basic, rudimentary even. But you also forget her Tra'kata skills. Using three lightsabers solely on the force, she can use Tra'kata even to that extension and in truth to little risk towards herself if there was enough distance away from her. You can't hit NOTHING behind a lightsaber that is fighting you itself. She would be able to tear Jeric to pieces regarding that. In a straight up Lightsaber duel with 1 v 1 using one Lightsaber, you'd be absolutely right she would be slaughtered.
She does have a large array of force abilities and true they range from the Light, Dark and the otherwise unaffiliated. But to say it causes her to stretch thin? Variety in the arcane is HARDLY a hindrance. The fact her philosophy encourages one to develop powers no matter it's origin or purpose is in fact Strength that Jeric did not have. He was driven by the Dark Side, which mean he in fact had a preference in the arcane that fell out of the Light Side. Kreia is more balanced and able to meet any threat that steps before her.
didn't she like know all the secrets of both the jedi and sith of her time and teachings as well? that's a huge amount of knowledge she has their that she could use to her advantage over any sith or jedi!
That analysis is most astute. I could not have put it better myself. What you wrote here proves everything. Nothing more need be said.
Goldfang Thaylon Darth traya hated the Jedi order after her exile from the order
That's incorrect. She might have at one point despised the Jedi Order for her Exile over the actions of her student, but she sees the Jedi Order as a piece of a much larger puzzle after the betrayal she suffered from Sion and Nihlus. In the game when you kill the Jedi Masters she LECTURES THE HELL out of you because of how simple minded a Dark Side Meetra Surik was. She even went to the point of saying this exact phrase.
"You misunderstand me, I did not want the Jedi dead...defeated, perhaps. I merely wished to show them, that they, and their teachings were wrong! To be brought low by such a failure, there is no victory in that."
Damn. I can't be the only one turned on by Traya right?
I have watched this probably 50 times. This is one of those videos I wish I could give more than one upvote. Excellent contented, solid analysis, thoughtful conclusion backed by established points and evidence. Thank you for this beautiful essay. Well done sir.
I love your conclusion on Kreia. I love Kreia and her character as much as the next guy, but everyone just overhypes her actual power so much. It's clear she's not a combat specialist, especially with a lightsaber, and she prefers subtle indirect attacks. To defeat an enemy without striking a blow.
Five years later and still coming back to it. Easily my favourite Jensarrai1 video!
I strongly agree with the verdict on this one. Jerec is probably one of the most grossly underrated eu dark Jedi. It has to be remembered that jerec intended to consume the force nexus on Rusaan. Consume, not leech off of. Qu rahn himself described the severity of that situation as jerec becoming a creature that the universe itself had never seen. That he would be able to destroy a star system with only a whisper. If Treya spent time leeching power off a force nexus without fully consuming it, then she doesn't even hold a candle to jerec. It was clear to me that he could have probably done a lot more with treya's force nexus than she could.
While Holmes' injury played a major part in that confrontation, the parallels still proved useful. In D&D terms, while the wizard may prove more versatile and if prepared can shut down almost any opponent, the sorcerer who is built to fight another caster will tend to overwhelm through force and attrition.
Impressive. Most impressive.
We finally got to see a matchup with two similar, yet stark different manipulators that utilize the Force firstly, with lightsabers at the ready.
I almost forgot what Jerec was capable of as it was YEARS since I played his game, while I've played KOTOR II for more recent years (especially with the Restored Content via Steam).
Good job!
*****
I come back and watch this video so often it’s insane- possibly due to my obsession with Kreia/Traya, as well as my sheer enjoyment of your videos and oratory skills. However, my one and only thing I notice every time I rewatch this video is that within Traya’s physical capabilities section, you did not touch on the fact that Kreia tanked an absolute *bastard* of a beating from Sion after already being severed from the force by Nihilus, meaning she did not have the benefits of force augmentation to allow her to endure such hits. Taking a beating the way she did from Sion, being lifted off the ground by her face, having her head smashed into solid stone, and then taking direct punches to the face and head from a physical tank as an elderly woman without the force, not only surviving but being able to run and escape seemingly without any lasting damage to herself in the long run. This I see as a physical attribute that Jerec has not achieved and cannot match as a baseline, considering Sion was easily in far better shape than Jerec (despite being a walking corpse) with a propensity for vicious, brutal physical attacks. Traya having this feat whilst disconnected from the force, let alone with it, is a huge feat on her part. This possibly just comes across as a rant of my own, but it’s something I noticed over the years watching this video and my sheer obsession for Traya and her story.
Whenever I find myself not being able to tell the forest from the trees, I simply mow the forest down. This was a great match up. Looking forward to more videos featuring Jerec.
I feel the amount of time in this video is more than justified do to the amount of Information needed to cover all the aspects of both combatants.
Looking back on it, this is definitely one of the best Star Wars Vs ever made. The pacing, the editing, it’s truly entertaining and fascinating
For 2 characters that I have no interest in, you certainly made this a fascinating watch, Inquisitor Jerek in particular.
I enjoyed your work immensely, good job Jensaarai
Traya would destroy him with the force
Don't forget force destruction!
Yep
Also Force suppression would mess with Traya’s perception of him
Great video. Amazing level of analysis and detail for two classic early 2000 characters who were sadly fading away into obscurity even before Disney bought Star Wars.
Hey Jensaarai, this was a really fun one to listen to, so many variables to consider and I thought you did a great job of fleshing them all out. Thanks!
Two of my favorite Star Wars characters ever, too bad for Traya, she is my favorite one. But if she had to be defeated by someone, it might as well be Jerec. Thanks for the awesome video. Also, that was one awesome analogy to A Game of Shadows.
I must say she is one of my favorite person in the star wars universe but I still think that she would crush him with the force
In all honesty, I think Kreia replaced Plagueis as my favorite Sith Lord
+FalloutCultist I like Sith Lords like Darth Sidious, Darth Plagueis or Darth Traya. They all fall under the same category of Sith; they're manipulators. They're more than capable of entering into the fight themselves, but that's not how they operate. They prefer to stay on the sidelines and convince/ manipulate others into doing the work for them.
To use a chess analogy, Meetra Surik is the king, the most important piece in the game. But Kreia is the player; the one moving and controlling the pieces.
+SirJedi Consular I'd say Meetra is more like the Queen. Superior to every other piece on the board but ultimately as easily manipulated as a lowly pawn.
+Nicholas Peterman But the thing is, you can lose a queen, and keep playing the game. If you lose the king, the game is over.
*Clapping* Traya did not expect Jerec's Inquisiton!
And it wasn't even a Spanish Inquisition.
@@furioussherman7265 no one expects the sith inquisition either
The notion of Jerec beating Traya is ridiculous lmao
Jerec is one of the most powerful dark jedi ever, and traya is grossly overrated
B PH Jerec is a good tier below Traya, lol.
I know this video was so full of bullshit. Not saying Traya would win easily but she would be more then capable of stopping Jerec.
Voji this notion is UTTERLY RIDICULOUS. Darth Traya would ANNIHILATE Jerec! No contest between these two. I've agreed with a lot of his vs verdicts but after this, after taking over an hour, my disappointment cannot be overstated.
@@sithkingphyler2363 no, Jerec who was only slightly below Vader and tailored to undermine a more potent Darksider holds the edge. She'd fail in a cold drop in fight. What you forget is that she'd never willingly put herself in that fight. She's not on Jerec's level as a combatant but better as a strategist.
This is my favorite video of yours. The music and perspective you crafted for Jerec is truly unique and novel, the analogy of Holmes and Moriarty is exquisite and using his soundtrack as Jerec's essential theme song is brilliant. This carefully crafted and researched piece of work put together truly made a character out of Jerec and a underrated one at that. I hope you expand to other avenues of content, thank you for timeless classics Connor, long time viewer since 2012.
Would be cool to read an official What-if about Jerec becoming the emperor.
Glad to see you get around to another versus video, I really enjoyed this one too. You gave a really good analysis of both characters, great job!
Great stuff. Initially I was "oh well two obscure opponents", but you really made this one great. Thank-you, Dante.
This is your best versus video yet it's interesting to see underused characters in versus videos I myself am tired of seeing movie characters.
Just reading the title got me hyped.
THAT WAS AWESOME!
Watching this makes me want to go and play Kotor II again
Two of my favorite Star Wars characters of all time! The perfect match up. I love your deductions, and analyses. I'm not sure if I totally agree with the outcome. But I understand why you came to that conclusion. Loved it all the same!
Kreia, The Schemer living in an Era of Warlords.
And Inquisitor Jerrek the Warlord living in an Era of Schemers.
*God I love that line.*
the depth he went into made it so interesting forgot that was an hour long video. great job! loved the video
Awesome to see Jerec being used...I've wanted to see him used in a versus for a long time.
I have enjoyed your videos for about a year and you introduced me to evannova, and reti. The love I have for star wars is something yall strengthen every video.
Awesome! I like the long video and the matchup itself. Gearing up to be one of your best videos to date.
I love how you compared this fight to that of Sherlock Holmes and Moriarty. seriously that is just brilliant proving that you put a lot of thought into this match up and have a great understanding fo it.
I love the line “ The schemer living in an era of warlords, and the warlord living in an era of schemers.”
It shows their dichotomy beautifully and highlights why this match up appealed to your sensibilities.
that trakata style of turning it off and one reminds me of Japanese swordsmanship of Iaijutsu sheathing and unsheathing after every strike also those fan films intrigue me
That's what I always thought as well. Even tv tropes mentions trakata in the literature examples in the examples section of the page "Iaijutsu Practitioner."
Also reminds me that I'd like to see Antoine Bandele eventually do a "Which Lightsaber Form" video for a character who uses iaijutsu (or the other quick-drawing arts, battojutsu and iaido), such as Vergil, Himura Kenshin, and Zatoichi the blind swordsman.
I CANNOT even express my enthusiasm. I would award you The most pragmatic, analytical, and unorthodox pairings. I am so excited! Thank you!!!
I wasn't aware that Jerec was such a bad-ass.
+Takeru Takaishi me neither
Thanks for the video Jensaarai1, I've been really looking forward to seeing Traya in a video. Although in a way I was worried she wouldn't be paid the respect she deserves. You did not disappoint however, and it is one of the best videos I have ever seen :)
Not sure if any of the council has made a video of this yet, but I think Darth Malgus vs Plo Koon would be interesting. Super aggressive form five specialist vs super defensive force five specialist. But both are also comfortable defending or attacking. So I think that would be a fun one to do :P
Wow you really underestimate Traya....
You've SORELY underestimated Darth Traya
@Carl Coriell WRONG! Traya has taught the Exile how to defeat Jedi masters in the mist of battle and what she knows about all categories of lightsaber combat.
@Carl Coriell Yoda, palpatine,yaddle,master fay, obi wan kenobi,Vandar tokare,odan,urr,vodo bass, and oppo rancisis all disagree
@@nasiquedayes4805 he literally said "doesnt mean". A teacher can obviously fertilize and water seeds into great trees but that doesnt mean they themselves are equivalent to those great trees. Traya as a combatant is formidable but people overestimate her combat abilities. Without prep time, Traya will find herself completely in the backfoot because her usual set of abilities are not anything new to Jerec nor are they something he cant protect against.
@@khalduras784 Traya Has Found Herself In Situation's That She Has Not Prepared For Multiple Times .....Her Skill With a Blade Far Out Classes Jerec's As She Has Knowledge Of All Forms But Uses 1-3.
Her Mastery Of Soresu And Makashi Together Would Destroy Jerec In Combat Plus She Has Shatter Point Which Literally Show's An Opponent's Weakness That She Could Manipulate...
Loved the video man. Revealed so much about Jerec that I didn't know before. He is now one my ten Sith.
***** true dat.
Very interesting comparison made between the two force wielders and the two of the greatest minds every placed in front of one another, I must say this battle was one that had a great detail and quality to it. Great job
Traya was a duelist, she was not only a trickster, she was a makashi master ,jerec has absolutely nothing that traya can't counter, and she has more, i don't think you were objective in this match, she was more skilled and that is that, no way a lower caliber like jerec could compete with her force power, he was very craft, but he was not flexible enough, and traya managed to manipulate all o her contemporaries with her force telepathy, erasing her existence from the whole council, even the grand master, traya could just turn jerec in a drowling idiot since he Never showed any defense against telepathic attacks, especially not against someone on traya level.
+Lucas Melo what i don't understand is that he gave said that Darth Traya is decremented by her dark side degredation when he doesn't mention Jerec's at all. Also, he gave Jerec the win because you assumed there would be a battle.
He said that Traya was a tactician beyond her time. She influenced both the Sith and the Jedi, and I don't see her going in on a one on one fight, it isn't her style. She would lure Jerec with promises of holocrons or the like and than after lengthy concentration kill him with force drain by decepting Jerec into letting his guard down.
A cunning superpower doesn't fight a warlord, they wait until they can strike ensuring they will be victorious.
+John smith And that's just the thing about a head-on duel on equal ground. This is why manipulating someone into doing something stupid gets more difficult. And besides - would you really think of trying to manipulate someone while they're constantly barraging you with lightsaber strikes and Force abilities?
I also think Darth Traya's abilities are enough to fend of anything Jerec has and would probably beat him. This analysis is really indepth and enjoyable nevertheless
+Lucas Melo Bullshit.
+John smith That's how I'm looking at things. Put them in the chessboard Jerec would contende really well listening to classical music, touchstones, and great food (almost in a Hannibal Lector kind of a way) but Traya would win. In combat, again this video is so well argued and polished. Jerec hunts force wielders and optimized himself for Darksiders as well as Jedi. Traya is not a combative force wielder. She is more general purpose. So yeah I see Jerec winning. Also, I do think Jerec could beat Dooku actually.
Edit: Thanks for the love again Jensarrai1!!!
Long video is long but very well done, thank you for this well constructed piece.
The Blind Betrayers! Terrific video, you never fail to disappoint.
I love how you used Holmes OST for Jerec
no jerec is more likely on a darth maul and count dooku level. traya is like on vaders level and speaking of that it is said that jerec was never able to beat vader. Man this versus serious ain't even fair jerec would get bested in just all ways. Traya is just a better force user period
i agree
Honestly, based on this video and comparing it to others, Jerec might be stronger than Dooku, if only slightly. Dooku did not invent a technique like Force Destruction and he didn't seem to advance his Dark Side powers to quite the level that Jerec has; Force Lightning aside, most of his other abilities were just the same ones he mastered as a Jedi, simply applied in more aggressive ways.
That makes sense since Dooku only joined the Sith about a decade before his death, while Jerec had been studying the Dark Side even while a Jedi Master and then spent twice as long as Dooku operating as a Dark Jedi with access to Sith secrets.
It's a negligible difference, and Dooku obviously balances it out with his far superior lightsaber abilities, but it would be an interesting match since in a pure Force battle I could see Jerec coming out on top. Not to mention, despite being roughly the same age, Jerec seems to be in much better physical shape and likely won't tire as quickly. So despite them being roughly equal, it's really a matter of tactics and skill vs power, and Jerec is the power here.
+Jensaarai1 I do agree that Traya=Jerec=Dooku in terms of force power. But in terms of knowledge, skill, and variety, Jerec+Traya have Dooku beat. I believe Dooku could beat Traya, but lose to Jerec.
I think you need to grammar check your comment, and take some context into account. Traya was a grand schemer who would give Palpatine and Plagueis a run for their money, she just didn't have their power in the Force.
Jerec was in a similar situation, he was no where near as powerful as his superiors. Instead of relying upon grand manipulations he decided to optimize himself for a possible confrontation with Palpatine or Vader. His approach was geared towards single combat while Traya was prepared for the long game. In Traya's ideal scenario she would never need to get personally involved, playing her enemies against one another while covertly building her own power base.
not relevant to the debate but Wa7chfac3 Historian made me think of this and how awesome would it be if Traya was somehow alive during the time Palpatine was around and Traya had to use her scheming tactics to undermine Palpatine's run for Emperor. I would absolutely love to see Traya and Palpatine go head to head but in like a battle of the mind rather than a straight up duel.
With how easily Kreia was able to turn sion to her side, as well as ripping the force out of three Jedi masters at once, and Kreia’s entire understanding of the sith, Jedi, AND the other full breadth of the force, and her pure genius with and without the force- not to mention her ability to see the future in Malachor- I’m afraid even in a direct unprepared fight Treya/Kreia would read him like a book and mop the floor with him. Imagine being broken by a new Jedi
Jen, when I saw that you made a new vid I instantly stopped all other things I was doing to watch this and holy crap I was not disappointed. Out of all you vs vid guy's, I look forward to your video's the most. Keep up the fantastic work!
Great video! I like the detail and logic behind your verdict.
Darth Traya would manipulate Jerec because she can be just so influential towards anyone. Jerec's powers are nothing superior compared to Darth Traya's manipulative/influential powers.
I doubt traya would be able get enough time to do that
@@raicattivo Plus even though he isn't a true Sith, I don't think Jerec would fall for her deception since he is a greedy person that doesn't care and has knowledge of the same skills that Traya and most matches are combatants being dropped in Cold so Mental Manipulation wouldn't have much effect since Traya has to gather Energies to ensure Chaos And Deception will run rampant
In the heat of a fight to the death she wouldn’t but if Jerec just happened to run into her then probably
@@ToadsarebetterthanFrogs WRONG! Traya meditating to power is headcanon she instantly used the same power against the Exile in the Darkseid of the story so that dismantles the theory that she must meditate. With all due respect its WRONG! Traya mental power is on superior or equal levels to Palpatin
@@JJoh4040 Even so Jerec also uses the same methods, I don't think Jerec would fall for her Deception
Kreia is probably my favorite mentor in all of star wars. It breaks my heart you can't be dark side and make her happy in game.
You have the most enjoyable versus videos of anyone on TH-cam.
THIS is my new favorite video of yours. I learned a lot about these two, even though I figured myself to be fairly knowledgeable about them already. Interested to see future match-ups for both of them!
+German Survivalist (Dante Briefs) It was nice to see Jerric finally featured I will say that.
Jensaari1, you are over playing the importance of Traya's hand. You seem to be forgetting that as she said to sion, when he told her she was a fool for returning as he wouldn't spare her again, that she let him cut off her hand to teach him a lesson that he failed to learn, which was that his power was as irrelevant as the power of her hand. She then proceeded to force choke him like it was nothing, with the arm of the missing hand, might I add. She was also still suffering from the fact that her apprentices stripped her of the force at the time he cut it off. This duel however is her at her full power, not her on the harbinger.
Further, you down play her powers saying that they are too spread thin and she has to meditate to gather them strong enough to do those things. She was not meditating to gather power. She was hiding her presence from the jedi while simultaneously using the force to listen in to their conversation, because true triumph for her would only come from them seeing that her teachings were correct without her apprentice even raising a blade to defeat them, which would not have happened if they knew she was present. Furthermore, if you think that she needed to meditate to instantly kill three full jedi council masters without lifting a blade, then it is a save assumption that killing one inquisitor, however good, without meditation would not be hard for her.
The reason that she was taken down by her apprentices wasn't because she didn't prepare. It was because as she said, there are techniques within the force against which there is no defense. No defense means no defense. These were techniques, however, that they learned from her. It is made very clear in Kotor 2 that she taught the sith all they knew. "What do you wish to know... that what the greatest of the sith lords know of evil, they learned from me..." is only one quote from the game that indicates this.
She was the reigning dark lord of the sith, and for good reason. The only one that could have defeated her was Nihilus who had taken her own technique to an extreme level that was destroying himself or the exile who her techniques could not be used on. To be honest because there is no defense to these techniques she may even be able to defeat sith more powerful than her, like sidious. And if she wanted to, she would have easily built her own galaxy wide sith empire long before palpatine was even thought of, but that wasn't her goal, as you know.
It's more than fair to say that Jedi and Sith at the power level of Yoda, Sidious, Windu, Anakin, Luke, Dooku, Revan, etc could resist her sever ability, as I'm sure by that era a defense was developed against it and these masters are all at least around her strength level if not stronger, but Jerec? Hell no. I personally think Traya is quite underrated, especially in this video, but I really don't understand why. She's definitely a top 10 Sith for being able to so easily sever 3 Jedi council members from the Force and kill them at the same time, but I wouldn't put those guys combined up there with Mace or Dooku, much less Yoda, Sidious, Plagueis, or a Skywalker. She could probably hold her own with just about anyone, especially with Force abilities, and would kick Jerec's ass, especially with Force abilities.
John Watson IV That's highly unlikely. If you remember the way her power worked was basically by tapping into the force bonds that are created between all living things, as the force flows and penetrates, etcetera and so forth through all living beings. Instead of bolstering others through these bonds how force users naturally do, she took the methods of the ancient sith and instead took their life, force power, strength, etc.
Because the force in the star wars universe naturally and freely flows through all living things there is no defense to this power, and there cannot be one.
The only way they could win, is to do it to her before she does it to them. And since none of them are shown to have known this power, its a foregone conclusion. Also each time she does this to someone she steals their power, which is why nihilus was so strong and hungered for it so much to the point that he could devour whole worlds worth of force users. Even the strongest forcers (that do not know this technique) are not powerful enough to face millions of force users at once and win.
So unless any of those beings completely rejects the force like the exile did, which isn't going to happen or become inanimate objects, they cannot avoid her power.
And besides all that, these techniques were long gone and forgotten by the movie era.
Kyewa Fwtghs that sound like force drain and i don't think there is no defend against that.
Absolutely, well said Kyewa Fwtghs.
Correct Kyewa Fwtghs. Darth Traya did use a more ancient sith method of force drain that had been long since forgotten and which there was no defense against and can never be because like you stated all life is touched by the force.
Hey Jen
Took awhile but I dug through my collection of the vehicle guides and yes it confirms Jerec as a Makashi user in his character profile
"A Former Jedi and a Master of the Makashi form a lightsaber combat, Jedi master Jerec was an archaeologist for the Order"
If you had listened you would have known that he could not find a copy of the fact file and needed confirmation, though he proceeded assuming it was right
I'm confirming it
Thank you so much! Been waiting for so long for you to use Kreia!
*THIS VIDEO WAS VERY INFORMATIVE! THANKS FOR THE KNOWLEDGE!*
A very interesting analogy between Traya/Jerec and Holmes/Moriarty. That was my favorite part of the versus video! Just out of curiosity, do you think Revan and/or the Exile might have analogous characters in the Sherlock Holmes universe?
The title alone gave me a chub. I knew you wouldn't let us down, Jen.
Even if you'll take a decade to do it. :P
Its been a while since this video first came out, but Ive been wondering. If we gave Traya prep time (say 1 weeks worth), would she stomp Jerec? Based on Jensarrai1 and my own analysis of Darth Traya, I see her as someone who is incredibly strong as is, but with prep time she slaughters just about anyone.
She would stomp him without prep time.....most of the points in this vvideo are bullshit she is far more powerfull in the force than Jerec.
Actually, it is quite interesting to me that you pointed out that you were originally planning to use Count Dooku in this, considering the fact that Dooku always seemed to be a bit inspired by Jerec. The similarities were there in a lot of ways to the point where I wondered if Dooku was at least partially inspired by Jerec.
Incidentally, thank you for using Jerec as he is one of the characters that I thought really could be used in one of these videos.
I love this battle greatly and think it's amazing.
can you add Inquisitor jerec into more videos pls. I find him very interesting since he is ok in lightsaber combat while his force abilities are amazing and I find his tactic of using the force to bothe help him bring an awe inspiring onslaught in combat and weaken his enemies pretty cool. I find jedi are too focused on lightsaber combat when they can develop abilities that make life easier. so If I was a jedi I would make force abilities my main task and even if it means my lightsaber combat styles are just getting by.
An awesome video and a match up I would have never seen coming! Is there any chance we would get to see another post-Endor villain such as Desann show up in the Versus Series later down the line?
holy shit dude, someone finally used my favorite character and it was you
Ive rewatched this multiple times and think ive finally come around to your verdict. Definitely prefer Traya as a character and a force wielder but she isnt suited for combat like Jerec is and in a straight fight would fall short.
Darth Traya versus Darth Plagueis however would be an excellent versus to see. Especially if both master schemers had time to analyse one another before coming to blows, using everything at their disposal beyond just their personal combative skills. Power base vs power base
So glad you didn't use the Exile's canon name
+Jensaarai1 lol
+Winderfiend764 shhhhhh, we dont talk about that here. There is only the jedi exile and Kotor 2, nothing after that :)
+Jibarhi Jones I don't think she should've received any name. I'm far more interested in playing the Exile and Revan without bullcrap canon genders, endings ect. than reading about it.
Nah my head canon makes him an obiwan clone. Couldn't resist when the portrait came up
+Jensaarai1 it's meetra why is it so horrible to say
I knew you would be the first to review Kriea!! excellent video!
A near-flawless analysis, old friend (Traya used Drain Knowledge on Atton Rand)! Somehow, I knew Jerec would win this!
Meanwhile, I can see you've used a lot of music from the _Game of Shadows_ soundtrack. Makes sense while comparing Traya and Jerec to Holmes and Moriarty.
Jensaarai1, I own a copy of issue 27 of Star Wars the official starships and vehicles collection, and I can indeed confirm that jerec was Makashi master. It's on page 29. Which is as follows..
Not all Jedi died in the great jedi purge instituted by emperor palpatine. A few were turn to the dark side, becoming inquisitors and hunting their former allies and any with Force potential. A former Padawan to Jedi Master Jocasta nu, and a master of the Makashi form of lightsaber combat, Jedi Master Jerec was an archaeologist for the order, seeking out lost knowledge. He was working in the unknown regions when the empire was declared and order 66 issued. His innate selfishness and arrogance made it easy for palpatine's a chance to turn Jerec, and he resumed his duties enthusiastically seeking out ancient Sith knowledge. His intention was to one day rule the Empire and the loss of palpatine and Vader at endor delighted him. Gathering a cadre of dark Jedi, Jerec sought out the valley of the Jedi on Ruusan, hoping to use its power to make himself invincible. Fortunately he was stopped and eventually killed by Kyle Katarn.
Feel free to use this post as a source for any future videos involving Inquisitor Jerec.
Damn
Thanks a lot, Jensaarai, for this new vid!!! I couldn't wait.
Great work this was one of your best versus videos
+Jensaarai1 YES!! Two characters that are long overdue for a premier into the series! Thank you!
Now for a suggestion:
Do you think Rahm Kota VS Master Kavar would be possible?
Nice work this was a very interesting match up. I've been doing my own Versus Series thanks to you and your Jedi council for 2 years and I have yet to make a video this long. Thou I have been close by about 5 mins. Keep up the amazing work the more information you share the better.
I like your videos but please do no aspire to hour-long (long form) style.
I really don't like making them that long because then they become a nightmare to record and edit. But as I have gotten better at this I try to gather information for all pools of pockets of knowledge I can find. In some of my older videos people bring up in the comments facts and details that at the time I felt were not really all that important to mention. So if I were to redo some of them now there is a good chance that they would be longer. But thou my next match up Sephiroth Vs. Vergil is looking to be somewhat long (hopefully not as long as the last two videos) the matches I have picked for season 3 are from my point of view much more simpler so none of them have a chance of being anywhere near an hour long.
@@3TopicsReviewer length in regards to versus videos is a mixed bag, I personally have no problem with longer entries, in many ways I find them more thorough but many others don't prefer that style. Ultimately I view it as being the choice of the creator. If you/anyone else wants to make a longer video go for it, it's your channel when all is said and done.
Awesome been wanting to see these two in a versus video
masterful use of Sherlock Holmes keep up the good work can't wait for the next one
I don't know enough of Jerec to say your bias or whatever, I do know that you did underplay which makes no sense, She clearly by her powers alone shows how well she understood and could control the force. Jerec's best and from what you said only real feats in this area is something he did while overpowered being close to the Jedi ruins, The second a new power he developed, That was probably just to make him an interesting bad guy, Maybe just the fact the writer thought he could add to force universe, But you also stated that power could be stopped by a power Traya possessed, She may not expect it, Maybe thinking its lightning, But I do believe she would have defended herself from it, And not relying on eyes would have been better equipped to deal with it than most, Her feats well out stretch what Jerec sounds like he was capable of, The fact he has feats against one Jedi master, And several lower level force users is not as good as taking out 3 Jedi masters despite how she did it, She always meditated, Being dropped in cold you can safely assume she was meditating before hand, She did not waste her time, Nor did she use power she did not need to, I would also like to add you put her a lot with count Dooku, And as much as I love the man, You do know she was very different from him, Given her uses of the force to his, As well as applications to it, Like I said not sure of Jerec, But by the sounds of it you built him up reading the comments and I know you underplayed Traya, As there were several feats of hers that honestly Jerec from what you said could not defend himself against, Wise people learn when they can, Fools learn when they must, Traya was wise, Jerec was a fool, Traya saw the world is it could be, Jerec saw his ambition, Who do you really think is winning this ? The person who is working to an end game, Or the guy who sees a one handed old woman ? Which is another thing you never factored in, His arrogance, I mean he was like Traya he used the force to see, Yet let Kyle live, Traya knew her role and excepted it, Hell she practically made it happen. There are the differences here, Much like the other video, I feel you may prefer one character over the other and let that maybe push you a little more to there side sadly. I really could not say who would win But I do feel your video did not do enough to convince me Jerec would, And you underplayed Traya to much for me to get a real sense or there skill levels. {0,0}
I agree with you completely on skill levels and specializations. if these two were gaged, dropped into a pit given a lightsaber each and told only one was going to ever leave, the one that trained to hunt Jedi would likely win... but like I compared in my comment, "but that is doing the same thing as a librarian and a mechanic brake down on the side of the road comparison. in that one situation he will win, but if he had to compete with her in any other way, and if those ways were allowed to change even those small shows of skill, she would win every time." and what are the dark side but manipulators? honestly, Jerec doesn't seem to be of the mind to run the galaxy, but to seek power. his flaw is in once he has power, he wouldn't know what to do with it because of his single-minded focus to obtain it. Kraia did not seek to have ultimate power, because obtaining power and never using power for a purpose is a loss of power because all your power is used to pursue more power you will never use for anything but to pursue more power. Jerec may be the stronger fighter, but he would never be anything more than that. Kraia was a Sith Lord, and to not let her use her abilities as such is to fail to understand the true objective of the sith.
hey Jensaari, I just thought of this as you started your opening description, given the similarities, what about Kreia/Traya vs An'ya Kuro. Both are very powerful and have had hands in the downfall of many students.
I actually own all of the vehicle guides
I'll check that tomorrow for you Jen
Amazing video by the way
Your channel is amazing, the only real flaw is that I love Yoda.
Jerec would die due to sheer philosophical confusion
Here's an idea: Jerec and Galen Marek.
Thanks Jensaarai for one of the matches I've been waiting since I first started watching the Versus videos, keep the Good work BTW, as a recommendation how 'bout Lumiya vs Exar Kun? Or any opponent you can work with against good ol' Lumiya.
Great job also love how you compared it to game of shadows.
Hi! Amazing work as usual! Thank you for putting in the time. =} I was wondering, the story about Darth Traya from? Is there a comic series covering her story?
Your disregard of Kreia's lightsaber capabilities, I feel, are incorrect. i would have called it a draw with the force powers.
I know it’s a miss match but I think Darth Traya vs. Darth Caedus to be a really fun match. They have similar philosophies, strategies to fighting and a ridiculous amount of force powers favoring utility powers. I think it could make a good obvious conclusion video because of that character dynamic.
Excellent video Jensaarai1!
Although when I read the title of the match-up, the first thing that popped into my mind was "Traya is gonna fkin die..." lol
Darth Traya 1-hit KO'ed killed 3 Jedi Masters with Force Drain
However, as Jensaari pointed out, that was after extensive meditation so she could focus her power. The scenario Jensaari uses for his vs. matches is one where the opponents are engaging each other on a level playing field.
+Furious Sherman Exactly. If someone did something like that once you need to look at circumstances when it was pulled off. Like Bane's death field, Ventress Corpse Reanimation, Dark Side Tendrills of Zannath, and massive Sith Rituals (think Kun becoming a force ghost I guess).
+Rob George on your last point Vitiate when he drained that entire planet
Cale Boch Holy crap forgot about that one. But yeah, massive sith ritual requiring the assistance of dozens of other followers. Kyle Katarn spear of midnight black (only used it in valley of the jedi).
Rob George yeah