Peter Molyneux's Last Great God Game
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 เม.ย. 2024
- This is the 5th video in a retrospective series on the games of Lionhead Studios and Peter Molyneux. This time we're looking at Black & White 2 a game who's long term reputation can be summed up by one word "disappointing". While I recognize its flaws I believe this is one of the best games in the god game genre and not at all a low mark in the legacy of Peter Molyneux.
Thanks for watching!
Thanks to The Internet Archive.
Intro Song: Serge Pavkin - Reflected Light - เกม
I wish B&W wasnt stuck in Intellectual Property limbo
Dungeon Keeper // War for the Overworld // Dungeons series. There's a light at the end of the tunnel. The gods just deem that we don't deserve it yet.
I still cry in agony when people say black and white. None came close to these 2 games in my heart
I know with the interest in simulation games it’s disappointing nobody has taken a real crack at something like it
@@erikmcswain Well at least we have interest in building ,strategy and simulation games from developers so maybe this concept will get picked up too.
@@erikmcswain This and the Movies, both the games would thrive in the gaming industry these days and there are some trying to make games inspired by them such as Fata Deum, which looks a bit like Black & White minus the creature, and Blockbuster Inc is similar to The Movies, yet simpler. These two show that people out are trying to bring something that scratch that itch of these simulation games to a degree, maybe one day someone might make a game that captures the experience of Black & White eventually.
im sorry to hear that, it must be awkward if it happens in public
I still dream of a BnW 2 remaster or at least having it be released literally anywhere again like on steam. It was my favorite game as a kid and still holds a lot of fondness in my heart. The building system is still the best I've seen of pretty much any building game. The closest I've seen to it is now Manor Lords but it still isn't quite the same with the freedom you had in BnW2. I loved all the features of the game like being able to interact with the world, the people, your creature and more and it actually felt like a real simulation/game rather then something that holds your hand. You could get super creative and take out your enemies by throwing rocks in your region at their city or troops which is such a fun and unique feature that it's so disheartening that it hasn't been in anything else for the most part. When lionhead was shut down, it hurt a lot knowing that BnW2 will probably never truly see the light of day again and probably never get a new game in the series. At least not without EA ruining it completely.
I feel the same about 'The Movies'.
B&W2 is one of my favourite - if not my absolute favourite game of all time. So happy to see someone cover it. I look forward to the next video!
It’s a total blast. The burden of expectations overshadow how fun it is.
I've never seen a soul who knows this game outside of me and my siblings and its one of my favorite games of all time, crazy to see good content about it too
Ikr? My siblings and I loved it, but it seems like no one knows about it lol
Thank you so much for the compliment. :)Both those games held so much space in my brain and I haven’t met a soul irl who has actually played.
I've Always wanted to play it but still can't afford it..
@@harmagedonFR honestly dude it's probably hard enough to find as it is, my copy is on disc and I had to buy a disc reader to even run it for my computer. Not to mention the studio who made it is defunct these days, it might just be easier to pirate it, I doubt much money goes to the devs 20 years later especially with the company being gone for 8 years now.
I hate how things have ended for Peter. When I was a kid I became obsessed with Peter leading up to Black & White. I was on game developer forums reading about him and interviews with him and he inspired me. He’s a brilliant idea guy and his work was phenomenal. I never stopped being inspired by Molyneux, and eventually switched careers 9 years ago to become a game designer. I literally owe my career to this guy for inspiring me to chase my dream, and I am so thankful for getting to play his incredible games.
That's actually pretty cool.
As a Lionhead enjoyer as a kid, this was a really good watch. You've earned a sub - great research and entertaining to boot. Well done!
Awesome video !! I never thought I'd see someone come up with a 40min+ long video essay on one of my favorite games ever. The graphics still hold up pretty darn well for a game that's almost 20 years old, the ambient music is fantastic and I just love the advisors lmao.
I was lucky to grow up playing the french version, in which the dialogue was voiced by big guns in the french VA industry (most notably the late Alain Dorval, who passed away a few weeks ago, he voiced Sylvester Stallone in France for 40+ years and played as the Aztec commander in B&W2). The voice acting work is a lot more vivid and campy than in the english version, and it gives the game that much more personality.
I was already aware that a lot of content had to be cut from the final release (Miracles, at least one or two islands that didn't make the final cut, the indigenous/egyptian tribe, a TON of unused dialogue still available in the final game files...), but i was completely unaware of the depth of the inital game storyline as hinted in the devlogs. It's crazy how much stuff we missed out on. For sure had LH enough time and resources to fully complete their vision for B&W2, that game would have gone down as one the great RTS classics. Hopefully one day we'll get a definitive edition, or a reboot of some sort... In the meantime we can enjoy the Redux mod which gets better with every update. The game still kinda lives on thanks to its modding community. And the fact that it's now free on certain abandonware sites lol.
It's always cool to see people talk about B&W2 on youtube, hopefully videos like yours will get more people interested in this game. Thanks for the great content !!
25:55 - Actually, conscience voices, both Good and Evil, are voiced by the same actor. There are blooper takes audio clips somewhere, where he jokes around with the character voices and characterizations.
Good catch! Now that you mention it I feel like I heard that audio clip at some point in my childhood.
Makes me think of how in Soulstice (2022 game), both protagonist are voiced by the same actress but sound quite different.
Likewise, there's two characters that are worlds apart (a more subdued, older-sounding raspy priest man who speaks with deliberacy and an over-the-topic raspy, phlegmy-voiced murderous maniac) and are *also voiced by the same actor.
Voicea ctors can do awesome stuff.
👼 _If you play Boyzone, your Creature will vomit._
Black and White long format content. Thank you very much!
Thank you for watching!
I miss this game so much. I always liked to roleplay as evil but I also really liked the city building aspect so I'd often end up winning peacefully by virtue of just ignoring the enemy outside of swatting the occasional army they send my way and just focusing on making my own little slice of Mordor. I always feel that the God Game genre is relativley sparse compared to others and it's a shame we haven't had a remaster of either game. I'd love to see what a modern spiritual successor, pun intended, would be able to do.
Black and White and black and white 2. Got to admit, I really loved those games. I even remember voting for the "Tiger" for black and white 2 when they were voting on creatures. Got to admit, really surprised something like this hasn't been done in another game. I loved the creature and building cities, but the best was the creature fights and trying to impress cities far away by throwing rocks that have been danced around. Just hope it lands in the right place.
thank you for covering this. very few games capture the kind of magic black and white and its sad how its almost completely forgotten today.
Only ever played B&W2 but on a PC that ran it at like 9FPS at a time when I didn't understand PC gaming or any of the technical stuff, at all lol
Still, good memories, but never went past maybe the first 3 missions? What I wouldn't give to play it now, but I wouldn't even know how.
great video. I'm very happy to see people haven't forgotten about this game.
Great videos dude, discovered your channel the other day and have been watching through each one. Gave me such a nostalgia kick for some very underappreciated games these days
Am i the only one who liked the undead aztec dlc?
Sure it wasnt as good as the main game. But directly competing against another god was fun.
If you liked that there was a multiplayer in b&W1 which I honestly think is a little more difficult/interesting to master.
I say that B&W2 is more mechanically found, however 1 had a lot of going on such as technical secrets, a benefit to assimilating cultures because their structures are helpful in one way or another IE being cheaper but smaller, or mostly their temples.
Yeah the different culture wonders especially.
❤🔥great game and video, I never knew anything about the press surrounding the game because I was so young and was introduced to the game by my uncle who bought my family their first computer and taught me how to use it. Lots of great memories with this game and Wc3. Thank you for making this!
Glad you enjoyed again!
Nice job. I've been wanting to make videos on Lionhead games for a while but all I've managed so far is a crappy playthrough of a Creature Isle Skirmish
I remember how I played against the last mission with the Aztec, I washed out with both the supporting armies in the end I kinda just had my pet eat all the villagers of the Aztecs.
Great video bro. Would love to hear your thoughts on the total war series since you mentioned it in this video
Loved this retrospective! Wish there was a Black and White 3 in the making somewhere...
Things of note:
23:30 Depending on your system you might also need the NTCore 4GB patch to prevent the game from crashing continuously beyond the Norse lands. With that patch my game only crashed once during an entire playthrough!
23:41 While the game does support high resolutions, going to 4k makes UI elements ludicrously small even on my 32" monitor 🤣
33:19 That village does have an infinite mine. It's at the back, at the foot of the tall mountain.
I didn’t end up needing the NYCore 4GB patch for this but your mileage may vary.
That’s funny but unsurprising it scales well for 1440p at least!
I must be blind because I played that level like 6 times for this video hahaha
What a fine tuned video!
Bout time someone does some Black & White 2 content, now I’m not the only one :)
Love to see a retrospective on this game, especially as I was someone who could never quite get through the first game, and I'm curious whether this one worked better as a proper game. Otherwise, while it isn't quite in scope with this series, it'd be interesting to hear your thoughts on From Dust, another God game that, while a bit simplistic compared to Black and White, definitely had some interesting ideas.
i initially found B&W 2 because when i was a kid i played a bit of B&W 1 at a friends and tried to find it for years before finding it and i loved it.
Its been forever since I played B&W or B&W2 but I had always loved the games and have always wanted to get back into them even if they had their problems.
Great video btw
Yeah I totally recommend playing it. Not always the most fun to complete but both games I started playing it again and immediately lost 6 hours of the day.
Have you tought about reviewing and comparing some of the newer games in the genre of populous and B&W? It would be great watching you talk about games such as Universim; Fata Deum (when it releases); and any other you might find. Your videos are awesome; I hope you keep making them. Thanks!
Thank you so much. I’ve definitely thought about it and covering more god games like those. It’s definitely on my list of video ideas.
having not played black and white 1 and being fairly young when it came out I didn't really have any pre conceived expectations but it still disappointed me I had a lot of fun with it and loved it while I was playing, but it was a soul crushing moment when I finished the campaign and realized that was it no skirmish no multiplayer no nothing it felt like the campaign was a long tutorial for the skirmish mode that didn't exist this game gave me a very unique feeling of heartbreak that I don't think anything else ever has
Man.....I loved BW2 so freaking much, the first game was too early for my age but 2 was perfect. I played it over and over and over, I really hope we get a new Black and White sometime in the future. :(
Hey have you played the B&W2 redux mod (the one on moddb)?
Not yet definitely thinking of doing some sort of content on the modding community at some point.
최고의 고전게임중에 하나!!! 너무 재미있게 플레이했어요
The nostaligia runs deeeeeeeeep with this one, boys.
B&W 2 and to some extent B&W1 are one of THE games that could have benefited from allowing people to mod the hell out of it, from what i understand the games just never had extensive modding tools or modding scene which i feel might have given these games a chance to live in the modern game scape by haveing people just do insane mods for it
Interesting. I only played the original game, never tried its sequel.
Did you know you can pick up fireballs after throwing them in B&W1? Infinite fire on your enemies!
I play this game way too much, its so jarring hearing very close to exact tutorial dialogue in the video to explain features since i have a lot of the dialogue memorized XD
Hahaha I’ve played the tutorials a billion times too it’s hard to separate what’s been heard from what I say.
Would love a new black and white so badly. The mechanics are so unique
I loved the B&W series!
I loved those games! I do hope we’ll see a BW3 or reboot sometime in the future, even if Lionhead itself is no longer around. 😢
Yeah there’s definitely interest in the genre I would hope if it’s not a Black & White game some sort of heavily inspired game would come eventually
What happened to molyneux anyway? Still on his crypto scam game?
I'm a big fan of the first B&W and I _just_ realized I never played B&W2. At the time, I wanted them to finish everything and get all the expansions done before touching it and then so many other things happened, I seem to have forgotten to ever play it.
I should fix that.
Also, the new model for Good Conscience looks abysmally bad in the second game. What intern thought THIS was an upgrade? His beard isn't even faintly rainbow colored towards the tip anymore - the travesty!
Sadly, I doubt the game can be modded to get back the original look of Good Conscience. Oh well, at least this time around Evil Conscience isn't suffering from terminal gynecomastia (it's still present, mind you, but not quite as much of an eyesore as in the first one).
That said, the game seems to look great otherwise, judging by the captured footage.
The first game does a better job of being an intriguing mystery, it feels like an actual spiritual experience or like you are interacting with something sacred. The second one is just a game. A great game, but it doesn't feel magical like the first one
I guess playing now I felt no mystery and the novelty from when I was a kid wore up and I was just excited to play a more fully realized game
Someone ought to take the dynamics of the first game, with the army of the second game.
Skirmish was so fun, but just buying stuff from a list not so much.
I miss the Black&White games, always enjoyed playing them,
Sucks one can't get it normal way anymore
Hear me out: B&W3, with VR headset support.
Especially considering how the first game was meant to be played with just a mouse that would work so well
I like this channel.
...To be honest, I think I'd replay all his games, if they were redone in current engines, using current tech, to see if he could actually provide his view, but without the restraints he had at the time.
And I know I'd definitely set my VR stuff back up if there was a Black and White VR that was properly optimized.
I want to play this so bad and I’m mad I didn’t grab one when I was like 11 and can’t get it anywhere on moderator hardware
love this game & i can not get it to work again 😅
I LOVE the music of Black & White 2 😍 I even got as far as Getting the original .ogg music files. ❤❤❤ The atmospheric Greek music simply names "Greek 1" to "Greek 21"
But there is a problem 😅 if I say the name of the site, YT will hide my comment!
I know exactly the site you’re talking about. It’s a great soundtrack!
Black and white was great! First time I played I had a hard time with the rock throwing tutorial. The little guy started laughing at me so I threw a rock at him in frustration. Nailed him.
The dev blogs weren't the info channel that sunk the game, in reality for a lot of people with B&W 1 and 2 they weren't easily readable.
Problem? Internet access was slow and costly, and DSL hadn't rolled around everywhere and for everyone yet, so where did people get their information?
Well in this era magazines held the show, just as they did for cars, they also did for games...
And who was often interviewed, quoted on features, announcing gimmicks?
Peter Molyneux! So he already tarnished it all and ran it into the ground.
There is a good reason he ended up having literal mouth guards follow him at shows and dealing with journalists (Guards that were there to make him not say things)
Now Peter got off and enjoyed getting the awe inspired looks and comments from journalists as he announced stuff, which often lead to a "You said what?" moments when back at Lionhead and a massive scope creep.
You’re cooking. I think i poorly phrased but the point was less about the dev diaries specifically and more a general look at how releasing any info during development after the fable gaffs wasn’t gonna hold up to scrutiny.
There’s no specific acorn gaff with B&W2 just a general disappointment from the promise that got B&W1s excellent reception not being built upon. Though by then B&W1 was already getting some critical reappraisal.
I think a fundamental flaw to the idea of these kind of big idea games is that scope creep is inevitable when your idea of a finished product is only gestured towards and not fully realized from the beginning. Interesting ideas can be thrown out but more often than not will not be implemented anyways and if it is it’s only a half baked version.
Thanks for watching tho and pointing that out. I’m gonna screenshot and use your correction in the video of BOTG because it’s a really good point if that’s okay I can blur the name if you need.
@@erikmcswain The thing is, a lot of this didn't come until later when they made documentaries on Lionhead and Peter himself, I think those can be found on TH-cam as well, there you get to hear a lot of this from the mouths of the developers of the games themselves.
Suffice to say the stress levels were high and comfort levels inside the studio at the time was low, some of them even spent the night trying to make something work of Peter's promises.
@@CMDRSweeper Right that’s a good point. Even as early as the dev diaries of b&w1 they were basically admitting to the culture of overworking yourself for features that mostly could not happen.
I love both the Black & White 1 and 2 games. They're very different, even if they share DNA, but I love them for their own reasons to this day.
I love black and white but never played black and white 2 which sounds amazing, i have the collection for command and conquer on steam and would gladly pay at a premium for an optimized black and white bundle.
Ah god dammit, now I have to finish the game again for 5th time.
Oh man Black and White 2 best in the genre!!
God I miss these games
I LOVED this game, it had its flaws of course, but overall I had a lot of great times playing Black and white 2. The only part I wasn't a fan of, was having to physically assault your creature to teach them not to do things. Always made me feel like a jerk, especially if playing a "good" God.
I love the world and ideas of these games. I wish I could have enjoyed them properly.
oh man this video made me want to play again until I thought about it long enough for nostalgia to wear off. Game was janky as heck and was a ton of fun, still better than some games coming out now IMO. Oddly, this mostly reminded me that Citizen Kane exists. That game was cool.
I love black and white 2 and i wish it had a sandbox mode map but i would go back and play the missions for hours and hours and never do the missions exept once lol
I miss this game.
B&W was the gsme I wasn't able to play on my pc back then, and when I could, it was too late. Would buy it as a modernized version which would easily work on modern systems via GoG e.g.
Yeah I will say the fan community can get it running pretty flawlessly without too much difficulty. I still wish EA and Microsoft could work something out about getting a GoG release.
I loved this game, played the heck out of it as a kid. I had no clue people didn't like it lol.
The burden of expectations that Peter puts on these games definitely hurt it more than it deserves.
@@erikmcswain When I played it I had no idea who Peter was, or what the studio did earlier, I think I played it before Fable too, so I went in with no expectations at all, and it was a blast.
@@OhMeGaGS I knew who he was but only insofar that his name was attached to some of my favorite games. It wasn’t until Fable 2 where I started to realize that the reputation was widespread
I still have the discs!~😊 creature island
black and white was such a awesome game for its time.. ive tried to play it on my windows b4 and it never worked :{ I would love love a black and white remake but it will never happen.... that makes me so sad :{
ied give anything to see a game like this for vr
I p layed this at the time and man it had so many meta issues and usability problems
That doesn’t surprise me. Every Lionhead game I feel like has a pretty hefty fan patch.
This game would be a great vr port
Lionhead walked so Hello Games could fly lol
does anyone know where to get and play this?
If you look up “Black & White 2” it’ll be one of the first links
I love these games!
I know my city became Mordor with all the evil I did, but I was still not as bad as the Aztecs somehow...
It's crazy how good thins game STILL looks
It really is. I definitely want to mess around with mods for it as the community is still pretty active as well as mess around with RTX Remix in it and do a video on that maybe on a second channel just to see how far you can take a 20 year old game.
God I want b&w 3
I still own the cd and wanted to play it I think it’s broken on windows 10 with made me sad
I played on Windows 11 which seems to have more trouble with older games. Id recommend looking up the fan patch. It’s easy to install and should solve your problem!
plz bring B&W back
Seen a few god games show up here and there in the indie scene but nothing quite hitting the itch i want and need yet might give this a go tho the side quests to put it off for me.
Peter to me seems less like a liar to me but more of a overly excited guy who just says all the stuff he wants or planned to put in the game before realizim came in and stuff must be cut.
Fable 2 and 3 was great too, it's not strategy game but still
Nut oil song beats sailors song any day
Doshin the Giant
B&W 3 should be expanded and polished ideas from B&W1 with army from B&W2 without stupid UI on new engine that could make bigger scale with better graphic... that's it... nothing more...
🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Peter Molyneux is an expert in false advertisement and overhype, he has been at the head of many developments where his actual contribution is mainly marketing and not development beyond the occational interesting mechanic,
Is there a way to play without discs?
Yes there is. Google the game and one of the first results will show you. (Sorry for being vague)
@@erikmcswain youre good I know how the world of downloading old games is
B&W1>B&W2!
Game is way too short.
Second to last god game, peters last god game was godus
Pour it
Just for you I will
Eh, Black and White was far superior to B&W2 imo. Adding the military stuff was just undercooked, boring and simplistic. Took away from the game overall. Not having soldiers in B&W 1 made you use your creature and your powers to beat your opponents, and that had much more potential for interesting strategies rather than "make lots of guys, send lots of guys, win"
Having played both relatively back to back. I had more fun playing B&W 2 for the majority of it. B&W1 may have had potential for interesting strategies but they weren’t really realized or the ones that weren’t even viable as the campaign went on. It was pretty heavily balanced for evil and often I’d find anything my creature did to gain belief would be counteracted by the fact that my enemies reactions to my creature or my actions would usually produce more belief for them than I gained. Like the idea of a level without your creature sounds interesting like it might make you engage with other parts but every time I played it only reminded me that outside of the creature there wasn’t really much to it and even the creature was more novelty and interesting on paper than in practice.
While interesting ideas were lost it resulted in a game that in my opinion was more fun for its actual gameplay than the idea of its gameplay. I enjoyed both but my rose tinted glasses for the original masked a lot of flaws that I see now. It’s still a very cool game and one I always try to get people to check out and experience because even if it’s not a well designed game especially as it goes on the first two levels are a very cool proof of concept.
Thanks for watching tho. I really enjoy getting push back on my opinions that isn’t me strawmanning myself haha. It’s what makes talking about games so fun.
@@erikmcswain You definitely made some solid points though, and I will admit that I havent played B&W2 since '05/'06. I just remember being hyped, and enjoying it alot in the beginning, then being very disappointed after a few hours of play once I had the "this is it?" moment.
Damn bro you only have 111 subs? Your videos are super good
This made my day when I saw it. Thank you!