The introduction of Gholdengo in gen 9 puts the hazard meta games of the past, and by extension this whole video, into perspective, specifically because of its ability; Good As Gold.
@@apolozero-frames291 as Jimothy said they should design stealth rock counters based on the actual design of the Pokémon instead of an item you can slap on anything. This is the whole reason stall is so viable in gen 8
@@Charliezard7 or hazards shoudln't be that strong to allow for more variety in the game. If hazards weren't that strong in the first place, heavy duty boots wouldnt have come to existance. Hazards make the game broken, onedimensional and boring, they shouldnt have gotten so strong over the years
You technically forgot one form of entry hazard - only in Gen 8 Ubers (due to Dynamax ban), Copperajah's G-Max Steelsurge's effect. It creates a field of Steel-type Stealth Rock against the opponent's team, damaging switch-ins based on their defensive value against Steel (Diancie would be screwed, but Heatran would take very little, for example). It's really not at all important, as it's incredibly niche (you have to Gigantamax Copperajah and use a Steel move in order to get it, which means playing in Ubers or Anything Goes or Battle Stadium, and also giving up the opportunity to 'max something more useful like a Flying-type), but it does exist in Gen 8 and future National Dex Ubers formats, so...I'd say it's worth at least one sentence or so acknowledging its existence.
It is CRIMINAL how little exposure you've got!!! I played in the first three gens and then threw my life away on drugs.. did a three year prison sentence, and now I've got a little girl and we have been playing Pokemon together. I've been itching more and more to get back into competitive and ADORING your content as I have!! You got my sub by a mile, brother!
Hazards in general is a good mechanic and a part of the identity of competitive but stealth rock is the only hazard that hits everything and be able to delete half of a Pokémon health. It would be good if the effectiveness was a similar to spikes 4x weak = 24% 2x weak = 16% I also think that hazards should have a limited number of hits before disappearing (8 hits at minimal for rocks and more for others) because the only counter play is bringing specific moves.
the only problem i have with stealth rock is that it weakens a lot of mons and forces them to use heavy-dutty boots because they are weak to stealth rock
I’m trying to understand what other typed stealth rock could’ve been more balanced? I think stealth ice or fire would be very unbalanced Maybe Bug or electric but rip gyarados lol
@@duckymomo7935 i think that's a bad idea always, stealth rock would be better if it just damaged "super effectively" to flying or levitating mons, because they are inmune to most hazards
Great video! Stealth rocks are suffocating, when I first got into competitive pokemon (back around gen 5) it was so disheartening to see so many pokemon completely unusable just because of Stealth rock (as if bugs needed any further nerfs) - I feel like GF designed rocks to be a tech tool and it instead warped the entire game. It should just be dealing 12.5% to all air-bound pokemon (anything immune to spikes) and then u could layer it like spikes. So stupid that an entry hazard can do 50% damage regardless of HP/defensive stats
I agree. My thoughts were that stealth rock should just have its damage nerfed to 6, 12, 18, 24 for damage. That's 2 x resist, regular resist, normal, and super effective. Basically 24-25 percent should be the Maximum damage stealth rock does. I've always said that one move shouldn't dictate an entire format. At least spikes requires 3 turns to get full effect.
Very nice video! I like the background music used! Stealth Rock is obviously the best one because ROCK is such a great offensive type. Imagine if they made an ICE variant. 0_o. Spikes is a close second. May take time, but is worth it. Was FANTASTIC in Gen 3. Toxic Spikes third because it can be removed simply by sending a POISON type in. Good in Gen 4 with Roserade usually. And Sticky Web I've only seen being used by Smeargles. It's okay. It's good if your opponent uses all sweepers. But if not, they can just switch to a defensive Pokemon and get rid of it easily, I think.
Just looked through the comments and nobody seemed to mention the steel type hazard that copperajah got? It's only set by a gmax move so it's isn't even in any gen apart gen 8 but it was pretty good as it was just a steel type stealth rock
Heavy duty boots in a item clause metagame would be much better, you cant slap it on everything like its done in gen8 and either have a back up plan for hazard, or use 5 mons with good hazard matchup to get place for other moves.
Just realized how nice Enamorus will be on Hazard stack teams; Contrary, so you bring it in on Defog and get +1 evasion, and you'll get a free Superpower
Honestly I think it's totally fine that braindead rocks are solved with equally braindead boots. Both are poorly designed and should be reworked (but we all know that will never happen). If the intention of stealth rock was to punish spike-immune flying types they should have left it at that, just hit flyers, levitate pokemon, and maybe air balloon holders for 1/6 HP or something. There's no reason it also needs to punish ice and bug types who are already bad, and especially no reason for it to basically invalidate pokemon with a double rock weakness.
Rocks made me stop playing pokemon when they came around in gen 4, when I came back I couldn't imagine a metagame without them. Playing around them and especially conditioning people to try to deal with them and exploit these turns is so fun.
What if instead of Stealh Rock, it was Frigid Winds? Makes more sense than floating rocks and keeps on check the desired target that's basically immune to the other kinds of hazard.
I won't take back everything I said about Hazards. But I haven't really said much. What's your impression on Livewire whether it be Insurgence mainly or Zeta? What would you design a new Hazard like? Do you think Mortal Spin and more are the answer or would it be the Tauros situation where the only new moves that would be added have a Immunity or an immunity ability to stop them? Maybe next we get Earth Twist. ~~ Honestly by looking at Sylvemons and just talks I feel like most people thought boots or something of the case was necessary Magic Guard mons already sort of Ignored Hazards for the most part. Another thing is that using Heavy Duty Boots takes up your item slot and it can always be removed/Knocked off. Trick and other such ways of removing it. You look at a mon and it can have specs but you can't give it specs because of the power of Hazards. Honestly I'm not good at balance I just do a lot of things to have fun but I feel to a degree I understand Balance but I also understand a bit what I define as the "Identity" of the metagames and the series itself. But I feel the inevitable evolution will lead to more things ignoring Hazards more spins and more Hazard removing moves. But look on the bright Side. We got Kleavor and Samurott... This begs the question where they will go in the future. Will they restrict Hazard attacking to certain mons? Will they let it spread and Buff Hazards or find ways to Nerf Hazard attacking without nerfing Base Hazard Setting? We also got Glimmora. So maybe in the future. ~~~ I wouldn't mind a Hazard of every type but what would each one do? I thought of a funny idea of the Fairy Type Hazard having Priority over other Hazards and healing whoever steps on it by 15-20% I think such a concept would be funny to want to like Magic Bounce swap back to yourself. COURT CHANGE! That would be so heat. It's also just because I feel the Fairy Type is portrayed as too nice for them to have a Damaging Hazard. ~~~~ Hazards are powerful and shaping and I never felt like deleting them but I do understand the power of some of them and why people ask for nerfs on them or indirect nerfs in which I always think is better in most cases as I love the Intimidate nerf and how they've been going strong guard doggo. The only thing I would ask for is for Rock Smash to become 50 or 60 power and to destroy stealth rocks when it's used while still keeping it's 50% Chance to lower defense. I wonder if that even makes it good enough I also had the idea that it gains a 50%-2X boost in power on the turn it destroys stealth rocks or it doubles it's chance so it's a guranteed defense nerf instead of a 50% for that turn on the turn it destroys stealth rocks. I think things like that might exist in the future moves that just remove A hazard instead of them all but who knows.
Yeah man when Stealth Rock is so free and effortless to set up from SO many mons and hits EVERYONE not just the Flying types and the types it's super effective against I have a problem with that. There's a reason why until gen 8 it was called the best move in the game cause it's so brainless and on LITERALLY every competitive team. Until some kind of nerf hits them I'm gonna stick with the Boots in spit of those fucking Rocks.
Big reason why Gen 3 is my favourite is cause theres only Spikes! I do think Rocks are manageable in the Gen 5 meta though as I explained in the vid, especially with Tenta that guy is such a reliable spinner. I just kinda hate Boots as a solution. Volc is insane in Gen 5 right now you see him everywhere, and thats cause the Mon itself is powerful enough to make up for its major Rock weakness + The spinners are good enough to enable him as a wincon. Rocks wouldn't feel so bad if there was a good balance of these things in every meta
I never really had an issue with hazards as a whole, it was the seeming overpowered nature of Stealth Rock SPECIFICALLY, maybe if it couldn't do compound super effective damage and got absorbed by Rock types coming in (Kinda like Toxic Spikes) it would feel more manageable and fair
Makes me wonder how Gen 9 wouldve shaped up if Gholdengo didn't block Rapid spin and defog as effectively as it does. Maybe if it wasn't ghost and could block defog with Good as Gold or was Ghost and didn't block defog (remove its status immunity.
i think stealth rock is one of the biggest mistakes in the history of singles. in gen 3, spikes were already more than enough to apply pressure, flying/levitate pokemon were balanced around their advantage to keep them balanced, and the hazard meta was really fun. in gen 4 they completely gutted so many great pokemon for no reason at all, rocks provided far more value than spikes with far less commitment, and physical pursuit came along just to make sure the hazard meta couldn't be interesting. by the time gen 6 came around people were so sick of stealth rock that gamefreak gave us defog, which mostly invalidated the ghost vs spinner war, then in gen 8 they removed pursuit which gave ghost types a very undeserved buff, and to top it all off they fixed the mistake that was stealth rock by making boots, which are the most valuable item on almost any pokemon the majority of the time, and almost completely invalidate every single hazard mechanic that came before. mono boots is now the default strategy, so offensive mons can spam their pivot moves without any cost, and defensive mons are only possible to pressure thanks to the insane power of modern offensive pokemon design
Stealth Rock is balanced by the fact it is not consistently the same damage to every Pokémon, and that it hits Pokémon that are immune to every single other entry hazard. Should stealth rock have to be set up three times just to do 6% to a rock resistant Pokémon?
It should affect speed. The whole point is to diminish the viability of a switch. Your opponent should have to consider what options they have, in which case this is an extension of how to answer "who moves first" Even if you were to nerf Heavy duty boots that way it would still work. An item at the cost of speed. GameFreak is addicted to forming their conventions around damage as opposed to mechanics It's like designing a car around crash tests and not handling. The purpose of a vehicle is its capacity to ride. If it didn't matter _how_ the ride handles, we would still roam around with horse and buggy I mean that _IS_ a vehicle- it functions the same, much like you can play Let's Go and click Veevoly Volly and get BIG damage off. Braindead gaming with no strategy involved
i dont want to get into competitive pokemon bc i dont want to cripple the fire/flying/bug pokemon I want to use just bc stealth rock exists, and i dont want to bring a pokemon for the sole purpose to clear hazards just to make sure my favorite mons get to at least play the game
"the introduction of stealth rocks helps dealing with Dragonite" the only moment when i hate HDB ... also Gholdengo fixed Defog ... until Corviknight adapts
what metagame are you playing where focus sash is a problem? pretty much the only common application of sash in singles is ironically on suicide leads, who's entire job is setting up hazards, and when it got introduced in gen 4 there was a massive increase in priority and multi-hit moves so most teams are equipped to handle it without any significant changes
I like spikes because they arent biased and have propper risk reward but stealth rocks is so biased. Its the biggest fuck you to so many mons. Id like to see boots only half the damage and nulify webs t spike. Also much like t spike id love it if rock types could absorb stealth rock. Alternatively it would be nice if stealth rocks had flat damage across the board and was like setting 1.5 spikes and maybe make it so you only get one type of hazard on the field.
I still think they should nerf stealth rock by making it do x2 damage to flying types ONLY. Other types just take regular damage. At that point we can get rid of the boots to compensate
Look I like hazards, But Stealth Rock is not fun to play against, I'm fine with the other hazards, But Stealth Rock is just the wrong type. (Electric is probably the closest to a good type for the Rocks, But even that isn't the perfect solution most people are looking for.)
“These are offensive types in general” Not really, other than ice. Fire is just as good defensively as it is defensively, and Bug is terrible offensively. They are forced to be offensive because of Stealth Rock.
My thing with hazards is that they are kinda braindead. Spikes and toxic spikes are fine because you can sort of get around them but stealth rocks hinder a lot of mons. I think you should have to reset stealth rocks every 8 turns, or get rid of the damage penalties. Spikes don't have that hindrance, and Spikes need 3 turns to be useful so I think they're balanced
To be honest, it's something unique to Gigantamax Copperajah, which said Gigantamax wasn't a big deal in my opinion either, also there were better Pokémon to make it Dynamax or Gigantamax
I feel like if Boots were designed to only reduce hazard damage, say by 50%, they wouldn't be nearly as problematic. Defensive 'mons are still being chipped down, and Volcarona and Dragonite can't take over games nearly as easily.
I will not apologize, there is no excuse for stealth rock removing 50%. extremely design limiting, an objective mistake, and the fact that it was not immediately fixed after gen 4 is pure hubris from Gamefreak. It should have only ever applied to fliers/levitators and done a base 25%.
You can tell this person basically plays nothing but OU and Ubers for an opinion like this. Problem with Hazards goes much further. One, so many Pokemon in lower tiers ONLY have use because of RS or Defog, as otherwise their power doesn't match the tier. Often, this led to Pokemon being up too high a tier from where they should be, AND entire tiers having no answer to Hazards. Secondly, most defensive Pokemon, especially in the lower tiers, don't have Recovery moves, so it worsens the effect. Third, the fact that it took an item like Heavy Duty Boots for people to realize just how centralizing and essentially game-breaking hazards are, and how they would give up more dangerous or useful items just for the ability to switch more freely, means that there is something wrong with the system as a whole. IMHO, I believe Hazards should be greatly changed. One, they don't stack. You have one set of Hazards on the enemy side, and that's it. No Rocks plus Spikes plus Sticky Web, pick one. Second, Keep Rocks the way it is under this system. Third, Spikes don't stack multiple layers, it works like Rocks, but deals Ground type damage like Rocks deals Rock. Fourth, T.Spikes also don't stack. When a Pokemon first hits the field with T.Spikes, they are poisoned. On the second time out, or if they are already otherwise poisoned before coming out, then it turns into Badly Poisoned. Poison Types still absorb the spikes, however. Fifth, Expand Sticky Webs to more Pokemon, or rather, More Bug types. So few actually get it, compared to the number of other types that get their respective hazard. And, make Bug types immune to the Speed Reduction effect. That type is already getting shafted in every other aspect of the game, give them something (or somethings, they need more than just one power-up.) Sixth, I'm not sure, but I remember something about a Steel Type Rocks in SS that was a G-Max move. That too, but only for Steels. Works like Rocks otherwise.
@@DarthFhenix55 Do you mean my comment or the original video? If mine, then I wasn't asking for something to be banned, rather that it is so strong that acting like it has to be there for the meta-game to work, then being surprised that items would be used to get around it makes no sense.
@@JABofLEGENDS I was talking more about things like adding type effectiveness to spikes or further nerfing t. spikes. That would just break something that isn't broken.
@@DarthFhenix55 I'm not sure how it would be a nerf to T.Spikes. Again, within the context of having only one, having it develop both poison levels still means that, without the multiple layers thing, and base poison dealing more damage than badly does the first turn, that it has better use outside of the way it does now, Glimmora not withstanding. Most Pokemon would rather be regularly poisoned rather than toxic-ed, because of the damage. So, with making it interact to change it to toxic on the second switch in, without having to double layer. Lastly, it allows for more liberal use of the poisoning via attacking moves, like Sludge Bomb, without worrying that poison being a safety buffer against the toxic spikes.
@@DarthFhenix55 It's why I'm including it with the specific stipulation of only one entry hazard. Otherwise, if only one is allowed, Rocks will be the obvious choice most of the time. I can understand lowering Rocks damage, then stacking the other hazards to it in that situation, but having so Spikes will still need 2-3 layers when Rocks wouldn't isn't going to be balanced or frankly much useful.
Dont refer to pokemon as 'he' or 'she' they are a species not a character. I think Stealth Rock should do the same damage to all types and rock types should be immune
![The Gen 3 OU Iceberg Explained [Part 1]](/img/n.gif)
The introduction of Gholdengo in gen 9 puts the hazard meta games of the past, and by extension this whole video, into perspective, specifically because of its ability; Good As Gold.
Yup, hazards are freaking miserable to deal with this gen. Ridiculous
Heavy duty boots are such a sigma item to hold. Enters the field, completely unaffected, crushed you, doesn't even care
Boots are still so broken and one dimensional
@@Charliezard7 you give up an item slot, seems like a fair trade
@@apolozero-frames291 not for Pokémon like Dragonite or Blissey which use it because it’s the best item they can hold
@@apolozero-frames291 as Jimothy said they should design stealth rock counters based on the actual design of the Pokémon instead of an item you can slap on anything. This is the whole reason stall is so viable in gen 8
@@Charliezard7 or hazards shoudln't be that strong to allow for more variety in the game. If hazards weren't that strong in the first place, heavy duty boots wouldnt have come to existance. Hazards make the game broken, onedimensional and boring, they shouldnt have gotten so strong over the years
This video was really comprehensive and well written. It's interesting to see the hazard users and their counters through different gens.
You technically forgot one form of entry hazard - only in Gen 8 Ubers (due to Dynamax ban), Copperajah's G-Max Steelsurge's effect.
It creates a field of Steel-type Stealth Rock against the opponent's team, damaging switch-ins based on their defensive value against Steel (Diancie would be screwed, but Heatran would take very little, for example).
It's really not at all important, as it's incredibly niche (you have to Gigantamax Copperajah and use a Steel move in order to get it, which means playing in Ubers or Anything Goes or Battle Stadium, and also giving up the opportunity to 'max something more useful like a Flying-type), but it does exist in Gen 8 and future National Dex Ubers formats, so...I'd say it's worth at least one sentence or so acknowledging its existence.
Hazards are meant to punish switching
Stall had become a real problem and switching is a powerful mechanic
It is CRIMINAL how little exposure you've got!!! I played in the first three gens and then threw my life away on drugs.. did a three year prison sentence, and now I've got a little girl and we have been playing Pokemon together. I've been itching more and more to get back into competitive and ADORING your content as I have!! You got my sub by a mile, brother!
Bro..😕
I hope you’re doing good now!
Good luck Man
magneton being named "gotcha" gave me a chuckle
Hazards in general is a good mechanic and a part of the identity of competitive but stealth rock is the only hazard that hits everything and be able to delete half of a Pokémon health. It would be good if the effectiveness was a similar to spikes
4x weak = 24%
2x weak = 16%
I also think that hazards should have a limited number of hits before disappearing (8 hits at minimal for rocks and more for others) because the only counter play is bringing specific moves.
shucked and slurped an oyster while watching
Great
the only problem i have with stealth rock is that it weakens a lot of mons and forces them to use heavy-dutty boots because they are weak to stealth rock
I’m trying to understand what other typed stealth rock could’ve been more balanced? I think stealth ice or fire would be very unbalanced
Maybe Bug or electric but rip gyarados lol
@@duckymomo7935 i think that's a bad idea always, stealth rock would be better if it just damaged "super effectively" to flying or levitating mons, because they are inmune to most hazards
Great video! Stealth rocks are suffocating, when I first got into competitive pokemon (back around gen 5) it was so disheartening to see so many pokemon completely unusable just because of Stealth rock (as if bugs needed any further nerfs) - I feel like GF designed rocks to be a tech tool and it instead warped the entire game. It should just be dealing 12.5% to all air-bound pokemon (anything immune to spikes) and then u could layer it like spikes. So stupid that an entry hazard can do 50% damage regardless of HP/defensive stats
I agree. My thoughts were that stealth rock should just have its damage nerfed to 6, 12, 18, 24 for damage. That's 2 x resist, regular resist, normal, and super effective. Basically 24-25 percent should be the Maximum damage stealth rock does. I've always said that one move shouldn't dictate an entire format. At least spikes requires 3 turns to get full effect.
Ladies and gentlemen, hazards we like it or not, weather is a pivotal aspect of competitive gen 5 ou.
Excellent video!! Really good points and it was really interesting to hear about the evolution of hazards.
Woohoo Vanmellon!
Very nice video! I like the background music used! Stealth Rock is obviously the best one because ROCK is such a great offensive type. Imagine if they made an ICE variant. 0_o.
Spikes is a close second. May take time, but is worth it. Was FANTASTIC in Gen 3.
Toxic Spikes third because it can be removed simply by sending a POISON type in. Good in Gen 4 with Roserade usually.
And Sticky Web I've only seen being used by Smeargles. It's okay. It's good if your opponent uses all sweepers. But if not, they can just switch to a defensive Pokemon and get rid of it easily, I think.
Good vid jim! Nice format too, and some interesting videos you've got planned
good format. appreciate the effort
Thanks brother!
Great visual presentation and informational value
Thanks for watching 😁
Great contents Jim!
Just looked through the comments and nobody seemed to mention the steel type hazard that copperajah got? It's only set by a gmax move so it's isn't even in any gen apart gen 8 but it was pretty good as it was just a steel type stealth rock
Gholdengo: The ultimate hazard enabler.
Jimothy doesn't stealth rock, I'd say it's pretty obvious
How do you feel about court change?
I wish stealth rock could be broken by rock types like how toxic spikes get absorbed by poison types
Every hazard except stealth rocks feels good
Heavy duty boots in a item clause metagame would be much better, you cant slap it on everything like its done in gen8 and either have a back up plan for hazard, or use 5 mons with good hazard matchup to get place for other moves.
Just realized how nice Enamorus will be on Hazard stack teams; Contrary, so you bring it in on Defog and get +1 evasion, and you'll get a free Superpower
Honestly I think it's totally fine that braindead rocks are solved with equally braindead boots. Both are poorly designed and should be reworked (but we all know that will never happen). If the intention of stealth rock was to punish spike-immune flying types they should have left it at that, just hit flyers, levitate pokemon, and maybe air balloon holders for 1/6 HP or something. There's no reason it also needs to punish ice and bug types who are already bad, and especially no reason for it to basically invalidate pokemon with a double rock weakness.
Rocks made me stop playing pokemon when they came around in gen 4, when I came back I couldn't imagine a metagame without them. Playing around them and especially conditioning people to try to deal with them and exploit these turns is so fun.
very good, would watch again. HDB/10
What if instead of Stealh Rock, it was Frigid Winds?
Makes more sense than floating rocks and keeps on check the desired target that's basically immune to the other kinds of hazard.
I wonder how he feels about the defog blocking ghost gholdengo?
I won't take back everything I said about Hazards.
But I haven't really said much.
What's your impression on Livewire whether it be Insurgence mainly or Zeta?
What would you design a new Hazard like?
Do you think Mortal Spin and more are the answer or would it be the Tauros situation where the only new moves that would be added have a Immunity or an immunity ability to stop them?
Maybe next we get Earth Twist.
~~
Honestly by looking at Sylvemons and just talks I feel like most people thought boots or something of the case was necessary Magic Guard mons already sort of Ignored Hazards for the most part.
Another thing is that using Heavy Duty Boots takes up your item slot and it can always be removed/Knocked off.
Trick and other such ways of removing it.
You look at a mon and it can have specs but you can't give it specs because of the power of Hazards.
Honestly I'm not good at balance I just do a lot of things to have fun but I feel to a degree I understand Balance but I also understand a bit what I define as the "Identity" of the metagames and the series itself.
But I feel the inevitable evolution will lead to more things ignoring Hazards more spins and more Hazard removing moves.
But look on the bright Side.
We got Kleavor and Samurott...
This begs the question where they will go in the future.
Will they restrict Hazard attacking to certain mons?
Will they let it spread and Buff Hazards or find ways to Nerf Hazard attacking without nerfing Base Hazard Setting?
We also got Glimmora.
So maybe in the future.
~~~
I wouldn't mind a Hazard of every type but what would each one do?
I thought of a funny idea of the Fairy Type Hazard having Priority over other Hazards and healing whoever steps on it by 15-20%
I think such a concept would be funny to want to like Magic Bounce swap back to yourself.
COURT CHANGE!
That would be so heat.
It's also just because I feel the Fairy Type is portrayed as too nice for them to have a Damaging Hazard.
~~~~
Hazards are powerful and shaping and I never felt like deleting them but I do understand the power of some of them and why people ask for nerfs on them or indirect nerfs in which I always think is better in most cases as I love the Intimidate nerf and how they've been going strong guard doggo.
The only thing I would ask for is for Rock Smash to become 50 or 60 power and to destroy stealth rocks when it's used while still keeping it's 50% Chance to lower defense.
I wonder if that even makes it good enough I also had the idea that it gains a 50%-2X boost in power on the turn it destroys stealth rocks or it doubles it's chance so it's a guranteed defense nerf instead of a 50% for that turn on the turn it destroys stealth rocks.
I think things like that might exist in the future moves that just remove A hazard instead of them all but who knows.
It's like an AI chaining emails to itself. Needs more tildes
@@ramblincapuchin9075 This is the most roundabout way someone has called me a Robot.
Simply because I type so fast and I separate certain sections.
Yeah man when Stealth Rock is so free and effortless to set up from SO many mons and hits EVERYONE not just the Flying types and the types it's super effective against I have a problem with that. There's a reason why until gen 8 it was called the best move in the game cause it's so brainless and on LITERALLY every competitive team. Until some kind of nerf hits them I'm gonna stick with the Boots in spit of those fucking Rocks.
Big reason why Gen 3 is my favourite is cause theres only Spikes! I do think Rocks are manageable in the Gen 5 meta though as I explained in the vid, especially with Tenta that guy is such a reliable spinner.
I just kinda hate Boots as a solution. Volc is insane in Gen 5 right now you see him everywhere, and thats cause the Mon itself is powerful enough to make up for its major Rock weakness + The spinners are good enough to enable him as a wincon. Rocks wouldn't feel so bad if there was a good balance of these things in every meta
skill issue
I never really had an issue with hazards as a whole, it was the seeming overpowered nature of Stealth Rock SPECIFICALLY, maybe if it couldn't do compound super effective damage and got absorbed by Rock types coming in (Kinda like Toxic Spikes) it would feel more manageable and fair
Fight me. I hate rocks, I just want to run butterfree, it sucks enough. It can't run sash and boots.
would be cool to see a vid about Team Preview :)
Makes me wonder how Gen 9 wouldve shaped up if Gholdengo didn't block Rapid spin and defog as effectively as it does. Maybe if it wasn't ghost and could block defog with Good as Gold or was Ghost and didn't block defog (remove its status immunity.
stealth rocks is by definition overcentralizing. if stall is too strong without stealth rocks, then we need to ban more defensive pokemon
I wonder how funny it'd be if a future pokemon would get an ability that'd heal its own hp if there's a hazard on your own team :D
i think stealth rock is one of the biggest mistakes in the history of singles. in gen 3, spikes were already more than enough to apply pressure, flying/levitate pokemon were balanced around their advantage to keep them balanced, and the hazard meta was really fun. in gen 4 they completely gutted so many great pokemon for no reason at all, rocks provided far more value than spikes with far less commitment, and physical pursuit came along just to make sure the hazard meta couldn't be interesting. by the time gen 6 came around people were so sick of stealth rock that gamefreak gave us defog, which mostly invalidated the ghost vs spinner war, then in gen 8 they removed pursuit which gave ghost types a very undeserved buff, and to top it all off they fixed the mistake that was stealth rock by making boots, which are the most valuable item on almost any pokemon the majority of the time, and almost completely invalidate every single hazard mechanic that came before. mono boots is now the default strategy, so offensive mons can spam their pivot moves without any cost, and defensive mons are only possible to pressure thanks to the insane power of modern offensive pokemon design
There’s a very simple way to nerf Stealth Rock, require it to be used two or three times in order to get the full effect like Spikes & Toxic Spikes
Stealth Rock is balanced by the fact it is not consistently the same damage to every Pokémon, and that it hits Pokémon that are immune to every single other entry hazard. Should stealth rock have to be set up three times just to do 6% to a rock resistant Pokémon?
yeah, probably.
Honestly should just cap at 25% damage, still is good but doesn't completely invalidate quad-weak mons
It should affect speed. The whole point is to diminish the viability of a switch. Your opponent should have to consider what options they have, in which case this is an extension of how to answer "who moves first"
Even if you were to nerf Heavy duty boots that way it would still work. An item at the cost of speed. GameFreak is addicted to forming their conventions around damage as opposed to mechanics
It's like designing a car around crash tests and not handling. The purpose of a vehicle is its capacity to ride. If it didn't matter _how_ the ride handles, we would still roam around with horse and buggy
I mean that _IS_ a vehicle- it functions the same, much like you can play Let's Go and click Veevoly Volly and get BIG damage off. Braindead gaming with no strategy involved
@@MrdonjuliothewickedThat's not balanced at all since it boost different types arbitrarily.
Hazards are low skill, low risk, high reward. Especially in this gen
i dont want to get into competitive pokemon bc i dont want to cripple the fire/flying/bug pokemon I want to use just bc stealth rock exists, and i dont want to bring a pokemon for the sole purpose to clear hazards just to make sure my favorite mons get to at least play the game
"the introduction of stealth rocks helps dealing with Dragonite"
the only moment when i hate HDB ...
also Gholdengo fixed Defog ... until Corviknight adapts
What needs to be removed is focus sash. The basic reason people use stealth rock is to get rid of focus sash
what metagame are you playing where focus sash is a problem? pretty much the only common application of sash in singles is ironically on suicide leads, who's entire job is setting up hazards, and when it got introduced in gen 4 there was a massive increase in priority and multi-hit moves so most teams are equipped to handle it without any significant changes
I like spikes because they arent biased and have propper risk reward but stealth rocks is so biased. Its the biggest fuck you to so many mons. Id like to see boots only half the damage and nulify webs t spike. Also much like t spike id love it if rock types could absorb stealth rock. Alternatively it would be nice if stealth rocks had flat damage across the board and was like setting 1.5 spikes and maybe make it so you only get one type of hazard on the field.
I still think they should nerf stealth rock by making it do x2 damage to flying types ONLY. Other types just take regular damage.
At that point we can get rid of the boots to compensate
Spikes are good but we dont need stealth rock
I hate hazards because you're forced to play with Pokemon you don't want to use.
Look I like hazards,
But Stealth Rock is not fun to play against,
I'm fine with the other hazards,
But Stealth Rock is just the wrong type.
(Electric is probably the closest to a good type for the Rocks,
But even that isn't the perfect solution most people are looking for.)
“These are offensive types in general”
Not really, other than ice. Fire is just as good defensively as it is defensively, and Bug is terrible offensively. They are forced to be offensive because of Stealth Rock.
This video show why gholdengo is so strong
Yes hazards are importantly but its stupid that charizard, moltres, volc, etc are ruined by steal rocks.
My thing with hazards is that they are kinda braindead. Spikes and toxic spikes are fine because you can sort of get around them but stealth rocks hinder a lot of mons. I think you should have to reset stealth rocks every 8 turns, or get rid of the damage penalties. Spikes don't have that hindrance, and Spikes need 3 turns to be useful so I think they're balanced
The part about Defog being unblockable aged poorly
He forgot the metal rocks in gen 8
To be honest, it's something unique to Gigantamax Copperajah, which said Gigantamax wasn't a big deal in my opinion either, also there were better Pokémon to make it Dynamax or Gigantamax
I feel like if Boots were designed to only reduce hazard damage, say by 50%, they wouldn't be nearly as problematic. Defensive 'mons are still being chipped down, and Volcarona and Dragonite can't take over games nearly as easily.
I will not apologize, there is no excuse for stealth rock removing 50%. extremely design limiting, an objective mistake, and the fact that it was not immediately fixed after gen 4 is pure hubris from Gamefreak. It should have only ever applied to fliers/levitators and done a base 25%.
We don't
we don't need hazards
Noob gamer
WHAT!
@n00bgamer97 you're right
You can tell this person basically plays nothing but OU and Ubers for an opinion like this.
Problem with Hazards goes much further. One, so many Pokemon in lower tiers ONLY have use because of RS or Defog, as otherwise their power doesn't match the tier. Often, this led to Pokemon being up too high a tier from where they should be, AND entire tiers having no answer to Hazards. Secondly, most defensive Pokemon, especially in the lower tiers, don't have Recovery moves, so it worsens the effect. Third, the fact that it took an item like Heavy Duty Boots for people to realize just how centralizing and essentially game-breaking hazards are, and how they would give up more dangerous or useful items just for the ability to switch more freely, means that there is something wrong with the system as a whole.
IMHO, I believe Hazards should be greatly changed.
One, they don't stack. You have one set of Hazards on the enemy side, and that's it. No Rocks plus Spikes plus Sticky Web, pick one.
Second, Keep Rocks the way it is under this system.
Third, Spikes don't stack multiple layers, it works like Rocks, but deals Ground type damage like Rocks deals Rock.
Fourth, T.Spikes also don't stack. When a Pokemon first hits the field with T.Spikes, they are poisoned. On the second time out, or if they are already otherwise poisoned before coming out, then it turns into Badly Poisoned. Poison Types still absorb the spikes, however.
Fifth, Expand Sticky Webs to more Pokemon, or rather, More Bug types. So few actually get it, compared to the number of other types that get their respective hazard. And, make Bug types immune to the Speed Reduction effect. That type is already getting shafted in every other aspect of the game, give them something (or somethings, they need more than just one power-up.)
Sixth, I'm not sure, but I remember something about a Steel Type Rocks in SS that was a G-Max move. That too, but only for Steels. Works like Rocks otherwise.
This misses a lot of the main problem with hazards and mostly applies the gamfreak logic of "If something is strong, ban it until it becomes".
@@DarthFhenix55 Do you mean my comment or the original video? If mine, then I wasn't asking for something to be banned, rather that it is so strong that acting like it has to be there for the meta-game to work, then being surprised that items would be used to get around it makes no sense.
@@JABofLEGENDS I was talking more about things like adding type effectiveness to spikes or further nerfing t. spikes. That would just break something that isn't broken.
@@DarthFhenix55 I'm not sure how it would be a nerf to T.Spikes. Again, within the context of having only one, having it develop both poison levels still means that, without the multiple layers thing, and base poison dealing more damage than badly does the first turn, that it has better use outside of the way it does now, Glimmora not withstanding. Most Pokemon would rather be regularly poisoned rather than toxic-ed, because of the damage. So, with making it interact to change it to toxic on the second switch in, without having to double layer. Lastly, it allows for more liberal use of the poisoning via attacking moves, like Sludge Bomb, without worrying that poison being a safety buffer against the toxic spikes.
@@DarthFhenix55 It's why I'm including it with the specific stipulation of only one entry hazard. Otherwise, if only one is allowed, Rocks will be the obvious choice most of the time. I can understand lowering Rocks damage, then stacking the other hazards to it in that situation, but having so Spikes will still need 2-3 layers when Rocks wouldn't isn't going to be balanced or frankly much useful.
Singles is competitive?😂
Dont refer to pokemon as 'he' or 'she' they are a species not a character. I think Stealth Rock should do the same damage to all types and rock types should be immune