Why Competitive BDSP Pokemon Failed
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ต.ค. 2022
- It's safe to say that BDSP did NOT live up to expectations...
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Not only did they not support any vgc events irl, they supported ZERO formats in the game itself. Unlike the main games, there was no way to effectively play vgc/bss, since you literally had no control over the ruleset besides setting singles/doubles. If you even time out at preview the game FORCES you to bring all 6 mons instead of 3/4, which was ridiculous. There were attempts at trying to make link codes to play vgc/bss amongst the competitive playerbase, but even Japanese players who all play cart eventually gave up trying to play competitive BDSP and went back to SWSH.
I had this exact experience. I play exclusively on cart for every game, and it really struck me just how difficult it was to find matches in this game compared to any game I'd previously played. It's such a hassle that most communities and servers I joined for that purpose died a long time ago, and now the only active community I have left is focused on SwSh, which I never really enjoyed. I know of one or two tiny Japanese streamers who still do BDSP battles with viewers, and that's about the only real way I have left to actually get a match in these games.
@@Rinabow what does playing cart mean?
@@Gabriel64468 Cart is short for cartridge, so on official hardware rather than on Showdown
I think that even if they wanted to do VGC in BDSP, they wouldn't have because until August this year there were *zero* events for Pokemon Worlds for Galar due to the pandemic. They wouldn't wanna start competitive BDSP up because they probably didn't care about it that much and wanted to focus on the region that was 2 years delayed in getting it's world's debut, and with SV coming up there would be no point in starting a BDSP meta that they wouldn't use at the next worlds anyways because people only care about the newer game and not the game that released a year and a half ago
@@cadencenavigator958 thanks!
The lack of movepool updates definitely killed my interest. It was already disappointing upon release that no Pokemon who were absent from the Galar Dex like Empoleon and Forretress didn't get any new tools, but the lack of any interesting updates barring Celebi's release when Pokemon Home came really put the nail in the coffin. This game really could've used some Move Tutors at the very least, it's a shame.
There were some Pokemon that got new tools (Parting Shot Chatot, Body Press Probopass, Lunge Dodrio / Stantler, etc.), but all of these were replacements for moves that got deleted in Gen 8, since otherwise anything not in Sw/Sh just had their USUM learnsets transfered over
Feralogatr seemed to have gotten new stuff, it was actually one of the best mons, after not being in OU its entire existence before BDSP
Tbf they buffed a lot of pokemons movepools tho. And brought back moves like charge beam
Understandable. Limiting move pools is limiting the complexity to the same degree as flatout dexiting those mons. The only move that I agree on being scratched from existence is Hidden Power. HP makes strong pokemon even more oppressive but does little to push weaker mons into viability.
@@karyoplasma There are extreme fringe cases where Hidden Power did a lot of favors for a particular Pokemon. Take Magnezone, for example: before, it was able to fire off an HP Fire to kill what it traps, like Ferrothorn or Skarmory- now, however, it has to use the much less effective Body Press- with multiple turns of setup, at that- to kill the same targets. Ferrothorn in particular gets a chance to punch back with it's own moves, which can end up debilitating or even knocking out Mag before it secures the kill. Further, Body Press triggers Iron Barbs, whereas HP Fire didn't.
I was honestly really disappointed by the remake. I was waiting for years for a remake on the level of heart gold or omega ruby but instead we basically got a rom hack version of diamond and pearl dropped onto the switch. I'm sure the new dev team wasn't given as much creative control and strict deadlines so I don't blame them but it still is disipointing
I am sorry but that is an insult to plenty of rom hacks out there, BDSP is on another tier of disappointment
@@danielestrada5511 it's on par with some early gen 5 romhacks, that's the best I can say: barely any changes, and a startling lack of polish (even Volt White is guilty of this)
The improvements to the underground were the best changes, and even then they disappointed me with the lack of actual base decorating. I agree not to blame the devs though, this was definitely corporate intervention, most likely from TPC.
@@borby4584 Really? I love Volt White because of that. Gamefreak makes its games for chlidren so they are comically easy. Vanilla romhacks that perserve the story and gameplay but add quality of life changes and make them actually challenging from adults with a functional brain are my absolute favorite.
@@borby4584 Volt white at least had well built enemy teams
I have a 2004 Wish Blissey with 5 perfect IVs. My friend Hex gave it to me.
I took the wock to poland
Sick
I’m glad for autocorrect because I accidentally typed dick lol
I don't think the people responding to this realize who Hex is lol
@@smokyprogg He's a guy who gives super legit and not genned Mons! He sometimes goes by Pokéhex always has shiny max iv and ev legendaries for some reason
Even the Let’s Go comparison falls flat because LG competitive was so much more fun than BDSP’s
Agreed. I think if Let's Go had gone one step further and included ALL Gen 2-7 evolutions and such of Gen 1 Pokemon (Crobat, Steelix, Scizor, Tangrowth, Electrivire, Magmortar, etc) it would've been a truly fascinating meta with a relatively low barrier to entry, which would've been super fitting for LGPE and it's concept in general. Like "Gen 1 Plus" where you get the limits of a small set of mons but still the good variety and power that they've gotten since then, instead of some of the Alolan Mons being so absolutely dominant in the format. Some of those Gen 2-5 evolutions and such would've gotten some real time in the spotlight that they never truly have.
@@Lambeaux0 As if they could make models, catching, attacking, and walking animations with size scaling.
let's go are also just plain better as remakes as a whole; if we're going to be brutally honest, BDSP are really just remasters. i do wish let's go had all of the kanto relatives (at the time) and not just the OG 151 + alolan forms but ultimately the games are way more fun.
BDSP wasnt *totally* devoid of its perks (the E4/post game and underground expansions were both nice) but it made a lot of really poor decisions and the devs were pretty clearly hamstrung by some combination of inexperience/time/limitations set by gamefreak/TPC on what they could do.
@@noahtaylor1721 they've already made them. Pokémon has been using the same animations and models for all of their releases ever since XY. All the animations you've listed are already present on each of those Pokémon even in Pokémon Go lol
Also looks 10x better
Ah yes, the famous Alpha Ruby and it's blue equivalent, Omega Saphire
I have really fond memories of playing AROS
U meant SORA
@@haroldnecmann7040 No, I think he means ROSA
@@DarthFhenix55 That's the Spanish way to say "ORAS" lmfao
@@GayAndDog roza xd
I like RSOA
The more I read about BDSP the more it just actively pissed me off. The biggest thing though was the fact that it was shipped in 4gb cartridges instead of the standard 8gb to save on production costs, but then offset those costs to their customers by making people download half the fucking game. So much just wasn't in the game at launch, and needed to be added with a day one patch. Blatantly anti-customer bullshit. I waited on buying Arceus to see whether or not it was worth my money because I didn't trust game freak after BDSP.
And what was your opinion on Legends: Arceus?
@@DopeioThePhoneBoi A welcome departure from the series formula. It introduced lots of small QoL changes, shook up tons of well established conventions, and probably felt the most like going on an actual adventure. Would very much want more games like it. Any issues it has are outweighed by the positives it brought to the series. I still waited until I could borrow a friend's copy to buy it myself though.
@@lyokhamishukov3513 I agree wholeheartedly. This was a game that was sorely needed. I really hope GF makes it a spinoff series. Would love a Legends: Hoenn or a Legends: Kalos.
@@DopeioThePhoneBoi Legends Johto that tells the story of ho oh, the burned tower, and the legendary dogs, or Legends Unova that tells the story of the original twin brothers and the e splitting of Kyurem into Reshiram/Zekrom
It's been a bit, but have you gotten to play scarlet or violet yet? And if so, what'd you think of it? My thoughts on it besides the obvious cutting of corners cause its almost like crunch kills game devs was mostly lukewarm to somewhat positive as I played it more
At this rate I don't want gen 5 remakes
Neither do I, and not because they are impossible to improve on, but because they don't understand what made pokemon good to begin with.
Bruh gen 5 remakes already happened
B2w2
@@meticakolli1237 that's a sequel
@@meticakolli1237 Those are sequels, and they launched loterally only a year after the games dropped.
Agree. Gen 5 was one of my favorites and I'd absolutely hate to see modern gamefreak poop all over them for a quick buck. Just put them on the virtual console
Every time I hear about BDSP I just think of the times before they were announced, everyone was begging for their beloved sinnoh remakes, and then the day came, the people got what they wanted, but at what cost. "They said they wanted a remake, but they didn't ask for it to be good, so let's give them their remake but make it pointless and horrible to play" was game freaks point of view. What a shame.
People thought I was crazy for saying I didn't want Gen 4 remakes despite loving Sinnoh because I know they'd be rushed and bad. I hate how right I was
Not looking forward to the eventual gen5 remakes suffering from the same fate.
@@Magiron. I really don't think anything pasty RSE needed remakes, unfortunately Nintendo disagrees because money talks. Gen 5 remakes happening right after Scarlet and Violet I can already tell
@@o7_AP Agreed. Gens 4 and 5 are good games that weren't really held back by technological limitations a remake could fix. (well, Platinum is) All they needed were ports, either an eshop release when the 3DS was still current or slightly modified ports to work on the Switch without a touchscreen.
Wasn’t Game Freaks fault though, or at least not entirely.
“What would you change about BDSP?”
I’d make them good.
That would require the sinnoh region to be good first
@@LordBeauBased
The severe limitations were terrible, including team variety, movepool variety (Pursuit got ROBBED), and lack of a gimmick like Dynamax/Mega evolution. Some things were just _absurd_ , like not implementing gen 5+ items. Coming off gen 8's NatDex outrage, MORE limitations is just a slap in the fucking face.
The gimmicks are pretty wack though.
A gimmick-less meta would be a nice change of pace, SwSh has Spikemuth Cup for that, but the exclusion of competitive items is just baffling. Literally the only thing making BDSP competitive different from the original is the Fairy type, when it could’ve been so much more
They copy pased the game code from the OG diamond and pearl. There are even glitches from Diamond and Pearl that are fixed in Platinum but are present in BDSP.
Natdex outrage was actually non existent. IT only existed on Twitter. Swsh still sold amazingly well
@@GordKeen I was annoyed enough at the Dex being cut that I canceled my orders for a Switch and Shield, and I avoid Twitter like the plague. Other places exist where outrage can spread :P
The main thing I’d change about bdsp: the direction. I vividly remember all the joy being sucked out of me when they announced they were making faithful remakes of dp. The teams did an excellent job achieving that goal… which is why they should have set a better goal
a faithful remake where pokemons couldn't learn half of the moves they had before...
Even the same exact "faithful remake" idea, but with platinum instead of dp, wouldve been great
They made it more faithful after majority of the Pokemon fanbase shat on omega ruby and alpha Sapphire for being too different.
@@camharkness "majority of the Pokemon fanbase"? Where did you get that? Hell, I barely even heard that complaint at all. The most common complaint those games had was that they didn't have a Battle Frontier.
@@99vongola99 legit you could find people bitching about them being easier than the originals. Things being changed too much from the originals.
Like a lot. all these people who claim to love the omega ruby and alpha Sapphire remakes didn't shoot up till after this remake was announced.
Can’t forget BDSP only had a 20 minute timer for online games, so that pretty much killed it competitively on its own.
Isn't that the same on SwSh?
@@AudioGAWD SWSH is 30
@@hooliganswiic5652 It's definitely 20 minutes on SwSh. I just Googled it to double check.
@@AudioGAWD But at least it has VGC who can work fine in 20 minutes.
Wait, you telling they purposefully made it to so that the poison type Tentacruel couldn't learn Toxic? Bro, those games were doomed to fail.
And yet, sales wise, they did better than the Pokémon remakes that came before. I do not want a Black and White remake if that’s this is how they’re gonna treat remakes going forward.
@@Nova-uq9nw I mean we saw this with Sword and Shield, everyone was critiquing the visuals/performance but said it doesn't matter cause it's still gonna sell.
Hell, it can’t even learn Toxic Spikes.
Also, hasn't toxic traditionally been teachable to nearly every Pokemon? If you're going to change that, why Tentacruel?
@@heavenswheel502 Until Gen 8, it was.
The biggest reason I played BDSP OU was to play Gen 4 but with the post Gen 6 type chart. Having fairy types and steel not resisting ghost and dark made huge differences.
It sucks because the “Competitive Gen 4 resurgence” was the one thing that I was looking forward to after how disappointing the rest of the game looked.
But they dropped the ball there too…
lol so don't ask for remakes and don't be ungreatful enjoy the game that you ask for years and don't be a cry baby about having your hopes high it's all of you guys fault for having your hopes high
@@sage64thecrystal shush
@@sage64thecrystal “It’s the fans fault for expecting a game on par with the standard set by previous remakes” lmao, take the boot out of your mouth
@@sage64thecrystal so we are supposed to have low hopes and expect bad games
Mf this is not the game we asked for, we wanted a game much like the previous remakes of firered, heartgold, and alpha sapphire, not a weird gross side game that has no connection to the rest of the series
ah yes, my favorite games Pokemon Alpha Ruby and Omega Saphire
They could have made this: BDSP is not a mainline game But you get instantly its Pokedex into Swsh competitive. I remember getting hyped for Dynamax Empoleon in VGC but never happened
Could you imagine Arceus in current format?
@@keksauce aren't mythicals banned? Or did they change it recently cuz I think I remember reading about that
@@BinhHoang-bj7sz yea the last couple series have allowed mythicals
@@BinhHoang-bj7sz current ladder allows as many mythicals and restricteds as you want to use
That is *exactly* why the p-home movepool reset was implemented, so that vgc wouldnt be flooded with bdsp mons with unorthodox moves
I love your content Freezai. You dumb it down and dont spend forever explaining away at what went wrong or why its bad. You are blunt and straight to the point. Which is why I love your channel. Only been following for 4-5 months now but I have enjoyed your videos since I have subscribed to you
One thing I like about BDSP is how its total mediocrity indirectly gave hype to PLA which IS a good game. Excited for Ursaluna and Sneasler in Gen 9
Haxler, Cocaine Bear and Samurott-Spikes did not disappoint.
inb4 Ursaluna and Sneasler never make it out of PLA
@@Frank_Erz
Then neither will I
@@Frank_Erz they do dw (we even saw Teddiursa in a trailer)
@@abarette_ Teddiursa doesn't really confirm Ursaluna
@@modelingcloy218 It does lmfao come on
What killed it for me was both the lack of movepool updates and the lack of compatability with SWSH. Both of those things meant that all we really got was a slightly modified (and imo way less fun) version of DPP OU with way less support and way less potential for growth. I played it for a bit, had moderate fun, but eventually I just went back to Natdex OU and never even considered touching the tier again, and judging by these comments, I wasn't alone in that
Yeah oras were fully compatible with xy to the point you could have a battle between someone playing oras and another playing xy ingame
Bro really said Alpha Ruby 💀💀💀
Aside from that awesome video as usual, keep up the fantastic work!!
BDSP was sad for a lotta reasons, but especially 'cause it just ended before the Ubers metagame could come back and give my boi Ariados his time in the sun as a counter-lead pick to Deoxys speed.
He'd actually have the tools to be a real pokemon now too, with better move stats and no competition for the expert belt.
Like BDSP sucks for a LOT of reasons, but that's just one of many.
Good god it's like they went out of their way to make BDSP suck in EVERY WAY POSSIBLE.
I mean the original DP wasn’t that great but gamefreak wanting to keep the integrity of that game so hard is what made it bad
No new mechanics and also no platinum features
@@duckymomo7935 It gets worse tho, they actually RUINED some of the most fun features too - Contests and Underground Bases. And they totally screwed up any difficulty too. Elite 4, postgame rematches and good-looking water (and solid looking battles) = pretty much the ONLY positives I can think of! SO BAD for a full priced game. Easily the worst pokégame ever imo.
@@duckymomo7935 "No platinum features"
It's called DIAMOND AND PEARL remakes. NOT PLATINUM REMAKE.
THINK DUCKY, THINK.
Yea, I mean it's not like in HG/SS they added Crystal features of course. Whats worse is that they just copy-pasted the code for the game with the same glitches and all, they could've done the same from platinum version
@@InFiNiTeO7 Okay, and? Platinum is objectively superior to Diamond and Pearl in almost every way, and fixed enormous issues like the lack of fire types and bad elite four teams, while adding things like the Battle Frontier. Why intentionally remake the worse versions of the game? Remaking Diamond and Pearl without Platinum content is a fundamentally bad idea; BDSP should have been definitive editions of Gen 4.
Gen 4 did not deserve to get slapped by the disease that is bdsp
-goes out of its way to be “shiny DP” and not “improved platinum”
-thus the game removes other mechanics not just moves that were platinum only, such as ur poketch only switching tabs in one direction vs either way
-bdsp had the grounds to be an amazing ass metagame.
No dmax? Ight bring back pursuit and hidden power, why is it only on unown, it needs to UN OWN it’s rights to the move being its only signature.
-moves got axed away from a lot of mons yet scald exists, Defog works as modern day, yet items like Rocky helm, av, gems don exist.
-only consistent thing that transfered over were new abilities. Peliper Drizzy, breloom tech, gliscor poison heal, so why isn’t levitate gengar back? ALONG w/ pursuit.
-dpp doesn’t have team preview, and bdsp doesn’t have perma weather? Why?
-why do pre existing candidates not have megas, or regionals
Rayquaza
Alola tails
Galar zapdos, it woulda shoved staraptor to UU or also been banned if not OU.
Alola muk.
Let’s go games had friggin megas and regional forms.
Gamefreak chooses to have the grip of a wet paper towel over its reskins, buffs, mechanics. W/ little to no rhythm.
Game Freak didn’t make the games, otherwise they’d have at least some thought put into them.
@@noahtaylor1721 hm, is it ilca or nintendos fault then
@@Interiorcrocodilealigator10838 masuda's fault, coz he the one who directed it
@@noahtaylor1721 kinda they supervised them so kinda their fault
@@Mustache99 But if an amateur game studio wasn’t put in charge, it could have been better.
“In BDSP… you do not have to compete with people who would have had access to their 2004 Wish Chansey,” he says, as though a legitimate one would ever show up for anyone ever outside of someone finding a dusty old distribution cartridge in the back room of the NYC Nintendo store that somehow never went back.
There are people who consider it being outside of the distribution period even with the actual physical thing that distributes them to be basically the same as hacking. I know people who wouldn't accept a mystery gift that wasn't picked up the first day of distribution as hacked... because, you know, soft resetting? What's that?
@@TheGuyWhoIsSitting that’s pretty unreasonably stringent, but I was more referring to the fact that this almost 20-year-old event is dependent on several factors to still even exist, most importantly if anyone at the time actually gave a damn enough to hold onto it since the competitive scene was much smaller back in Gens 3 and 4.
Secret bases got robbed too. Competitive capture the flag was just gone, and only having statues was a huge downgrade!
But in seriousness, thanks for this analysis!
ikr, these werent even faithful remakes like some people argue.
LGPE was a more fun metagame than BDSP was. At least there were interesting megas and Melmetal to play with.
Huh. So it was because it didn't bring many new things to the table (if anything, limiting stuff in some ways), huh? Makes sense.
3:16 there is a fix for that: Move Tutors, something BDSP don't have. Why not have one that teaches moves from old events(like make Chansey learn Wish) instead of completely removing the tutor idea by complete.
Overall, yeah, BDSP was a dissapointment in all fronts... which makes me worried for a Gen 5 remake and makes me even wish for it to not have one.
Some might argue that they would have to dig and find every non standard move for each Pokémon and that would be too much hassle to dig up and program into move tutors.
And I’d tell those dingdongs that we have literal wikis for that. Ones that nobody would bother to tamper with because they’re so damn old. The game was literally gutted for the sake of the act of gutting. I don’t get it.
Ah yes my favorite Pokemon Game: Pokemon Alpha Ruby
I’m partial to Omega Sapphire
I prefer omega sapphire more
LGPE competitive sounded interesting, even though I never played it, as a modern RBY OU. It modernized some things like mechanics, movepools, megas, etc while keeping old features like no held items or abilities. And new mons like the partner pokemon, Melmetal, and megas/alolan forms are all interesting in such a limited format. It seem reminiscent of RBY but new.
Bdsp however is kinda more slapdash. Some movesets are less modern than even dpp era (Zapdos) and not many new things have been added besides fairy typing, team preview, and hidden abilities to differentiate itself, none of which I think sound that exciting. It doesn’t even have Galar/Alolan/Hisuian forms as new additions to spice up the meta and make it more unique from dpp.
I think it is worth mentioning that while you can just go and play older gens it’s really daunting. Most people who play them have been playing for a long while and the skill gap can be hard to close for an average player. I would love to play adv ou cause gen 3 are my favourite games but every time I try I just feel lost and like everyone is better than me. I use sample teams but it makes me a bit annoyed cause I like making my own teams but I feel so incredibly bad that I can’t hope to make anything good. I also have no one to teach me cause I have no friends 😢. BDSP absolutely failed though I won’t argue that.
Heads up, if you continue playing and learning, you will get better with time :)
I feel you when I first tried advanced I could not fathom me using special ttar but guess what I’m using special ttar
@@shadowbonbon3 I understand why and the concept behind stuff that’s already made but I’m just terrible at putting it into practice. Hopefully I will get good one day and wrap my head around it. I know special ttar is used to pursuit trap gengar and ice beam salamence and flygon I just get outplayed by my opponents all the time so I dunno sometimes I feel like giving up.
@@dastardlydwarf6909 tomorrow about an hour earlier I can get a few games with you if you would like I just made a new team and would also like the practice
@@shadowbonbon3 thanks for the offer bro I’m pretty busy tomorrow though I’ve got work and I need to take my dogs to the vets/go to the opticians in the evening. I really appreciate it though it is really kind of you to offer, I hope you have a really good day and aren’t offended.
Apparently the reason why moves are reset when transferring a Pokemon from Home into BDSP is because it runs on a completely different engine from the other Pokemon games (Unity, actually) and Home ran on a separate engine too; it was hell for ILCA to convert the Pokemon data from the other games into the BDSP format and they also fucked up the data format since Spinda's spot RNG is reversed (which is also why you can't transfer Spinda into BDSP). This is why it took so long for BDSP to be supported by Home
I'm not sure why they decided to just reset their moves, though, that shouldn't have anything to do with it unless having illegal moves messes up the game somehow
They probably just couldn't be bothered to robustly test for exploits and glitches in moveset data and decided to blanket reset moves to avoid outliers
Wait
BDSP is running on fucking UNITY?
@@pokeninjafireemblem Yup, and because of that it's the easiest pokemon game to mod, search for a channel called PurpleThunderNE, you won't be disappointed
Holy shit it runs on unity
There’s a reason why there’s so many Mods for BDSP. Even PLA stuff was added in BDSP.
Honestly I've sorta lost interest even since the removal of national dex. If they're just gonna pick and choose and remove shit from new generations going forward then what's the point?
Pick one: good games by workers not horribly overworked, or national dex
@@RealityMasterRogue We have neither. The workers are overworked, the national dex is gone, and the games haven't surpassed the standard they set ten years ago.
@@FieryMeltman either way, the national Dex simply isn't sustainable. Each game would need AGES to develop, and that would stop the merch train
@@theiceman4494 Maybe that would be a good thing idk?
@@RealityMasterRogue you get nothing, good day sir
I’ve said it once and I’ll say it pretty much every time I can: Legends Arceus was our actual Gen 4 remake. Platinum-focused? Check. Moveset updates, including new Moves? Check. Actually expands the Sinnoh Region’s lore and updates characters/locations? Check.
My theory is that the dev team was super dedicated to making a different take on Sinnoh both gameplay-wise and setting-wise from the start of development, but TPC thought people would see it as too different from D/P/Pt to count as a “remake.” So they got a random company they had relations with, ILCA, to essentially reskin Diamond and Pearl in case Legends flopped.
BD/SP just don’t feel like the mystical Sinnoh I know, despite copying their influence to a T. But Legends HAS that magic, and twists it into a new journey that runs complete circles around every other mainline Pokemon Switch game. What I’m saying is, if GF ever does one of those montages where they show each Gen’s game and ask about what sort of memories they gave you, they’re showing Legends. HG/SS had Red on Mt. Silver’s snowy peak, ORAS had us fly on Rayquaza into outer space, BD/SP had… an updated underground? It just doesn’t really have a memorable “moment” that sets it apart. Legends on the other hand, has [INSERT SPOILERS HERE].
Plus I still want Masquerain to return to a legit competitive format it’s stuck in Gen 7 D:
Legends Arceus has fuckthing to do with Gen 4 aside name-dropping "Sinnoh" for sales. Also, for as much it can be addicting, it still quite sucks. So I disagree.
@@drakegrandx5914 I want the crackpipe you smoked to drop this braindead take, seriously. Legends Arceus has, quite literally, EVERYTHING to do with Sinnoh. From the characters to the storyline to the music. It's both a callback and a fresh look at a beloved region's past. It provides us with an abundance of lore, a kickass OST, legitimately addictive and snappy gameplay, and oodles of postgame content.
I legitimately think you didn't play past Obsidian Fieldlands, if you actually think this.
@@DopeioThePhoneBoi Dude, you're joking right? Aside from name-dropping Sinnoh and Team Galaxy and having random characters look like random people in the future, there's nothing that makes you think of Gen 4 games, and those things are irrelevant nonetheless. Hisui could be some random never-appeared before island and nothing would change.
Ok, the map, I suppose, sorta-kind of? In that, technically, the swamp area is where there was a swamp, the snow area is where there was the snow city, the beach area is where there was the port city, and there is a big mountain at the center. But aside from that (and even that's not a full point, because yes, there is a beach area, but no connection with Sunnyshore itself), nothing reminds of DPP Sinnoh in there. The tribes? They have no counterpart in Sinnoh, so who cares. Team Galaxy? A completely different thing, name used for fan-service, who cares. The characters? They have nothing to do with their descendants, *who cares.*
People acting like PLA is the "true remake" just because we finally got a kinda decent game irritates me. Compare ORAS, HGSS, LGRF, hell, even the second part of original GSC is more of a remake than what PLA is.
@@drakegrandx5914 Okay, got it, you're trolling 👍🏾 sorry for the confusion.
@@DopeioThePhoneBoi - is provided with good arguments
- provides none of their own
- calls other "a troll" hoping that makes them win something
- leaves
I remember a lot of the theoretical-meta talk prior to BDSP's release, speculating that despite the list of Pokemon being identical to DPPt, it would be a functionally different meta, because of the post-gen 4 movepools, abilities, and items. Because why would we expect less?
That would have been a nice expectation to meet.
there's only HAs, added/replace abilities (Drought Torkoal, Drizzile Pelipper), stats changes from Gen 5+ (Clef with 95 Sp. Atk), and Fairy-type
not much else
this is an incredible video, thank you for this. you tore bdsp to shreds and still managed to tell it like it is, and you're completely correct.
god your videos are so succinct and informative, I really appreciate them, I don't think there's a better competitive Pokemon analysis youtuber that has as good a combo as that
No matter the context, everytime I hear "BDS-" my mind goes a completely different direction.
That's because you are a degenerate
Lol
😂
BDSP is the only Pokémon game which NEVER, EVER, ceases to disappoint me.
I think the main thing for me was, I played ORAS before I played RSE, and I played GSC before i played HGSS. for me, they felt like different games, with lots of different features, just with similar stories and locations. With BDSP and DPP they just. Felt too similar for me. There wasn’t anything that made me excited to play it. I honestly enjoy my Dialga figure more than I enjoyed the actual game. I haven’t touched it since like, a month after it came out, and I was fiddling about with my figure display earlier today and that one’s at the forefront. I don’t play competitive, so I can’t speak on that, just as someone who likes pokémon on a casual level.
ETA: I also have similar feelings about FRLG, RBY, and the let’s go games. Again, all set in the same place, but they felt different enough for me to enjoy them all as separate games. But that’s with the whole point of games being part of their own generation or being a weird crossover between two.
Hopefully the S/V meta will be decent with the new TM concept.
Kinda hard considering Terastallizing will probably be broken, even more than Dynamax ever was. Giving a Pokémon any Type + a very strong STAB move at any time will be impossible to play against and balance correctly.
I don't think the new TM handling should really make a difference competitively, just make the in-game process different. I don't think terastalizing for changing types will be too bad because although there's unpredictability in what type your opponent will turn into, there's also the chance your own tera types don't do well against your opponent's team, although you will be able to build your team such that a different mon will terastallize in different matchups. The stab boost for one of the original types (free adaptability or better) does seem like it could become pretty broken
I really hope terrastralizing doesn't end up being broken. Dynamax being broken was what made me not bother with swsh competitive, i really hope they make it good this time
@@cornonjacob Sorry, I phrased that poorly. I meant to say that unlike BDSP and Sw/Sh, I hope that we can, let's say, have a Zapdos that is capable of using roost and defog obtained naturally in the game .
@@Slenderquil dynamax got moved to some select formats where it doesn't deal as much harm. It is still effectively banned though XD Pokemon needs to relearn about the concept of "power creep." Power creep has killed a TON of competitive games even with dedicated fanbases...
probably because the games themselves were duct taped together excuses for a pokemon game, that added basically nothing and existed just to milk money out of the franchise, as if Sw/Sh wasn’t bad enough
Honestly, I saw it coming. When I look at a PKMN for use in BDSP (or SwSh) I always have to check if x move was deleted; let alone if the PKMN itself was deleted. It sucks, and it limits team building a lot. This situation didn't happen in games pre-switch
I really enjoyed the tier initially
Neat analysis video! Thanks for uploading!
I was excited for Dexcut pokemon like Empoleon to be playable in Gen 8.
I realized it was a whole new game and the pokemon in that wouldn't be in Gen 8 and I was still a bit interested.
When I started playing I got annoyed with the gutted movepool and didn't feel enough towards the meta games as a whole to want to keep playing them.
3:40 Jus give a post-game tutor like all those other remakes. Is not that hard. Not need to be all moves but enough to give a fleshed out movepool.
You're pretty spot on with your reasoning here, mostly the more limited movepool plus the metagame basically already being "solved" because we had years to play dpp. Every other remake had substantial changes respective to the "current" generation at the time they were released, whereas bdsp is kinda just a remaster with natures mints and the ability items thrown in. for me personally it was a shame to come back to pokemon for bdsp to just kinda die off almost immediately, even on showdown.
BDSP was one of my favourite tiers, but right now, it takes too long between ngames to play :(
It was so cool to have a tier with mechanics I understood but with only gen 4 mons.
I played it so much in the early days where blaziken and rain were so overpowered that you would run blaziken ON RAIN...
those were the days
Bdsp has died and learning how to ev train early on in bdsp was a pain lol i forgot how hard it was back when i was 10 years old doing that in DPP
hardest part of oldschool ev training is memorizing which mons give what evs
BDSP has plenty of problems but I like the removal of Toxic from a lot of mons and I think that trend should be continued. For example I think one of the issues with Lando-T that make him such a risk-free pick is that you switch in your EQ resist and he cripples it with Toxic. It gives a lot of Pokemon a whole extra angle of attack that thematically it doesn't feel right for them to have. Similar to U-turn and Stealth Rock, it's the signature move of a fairly weak type, but it has such good distribution that you don't need to actually run a pokemon of that type to get the benefit of it.
Almost no insect type pokémons have U-turn
I do agree with toxic being heavily limited. I hate how many stall pokemon can cripple their answer with toxic
It should be able to limit you if it can't directly hit you. That's called strategy. Removing Toxic wouldn't nerf stall that much, anyway.
@@user-fe8gx3ie5v Lando is a 145 attack mon with a perfect typing and top-tier ability. Please explain to me why he should also have access to Poison's most defining move that allows him to beat 80% of the mons who can actually switch into a STAB EQ
@@dm9910 No such thing as "perfect," and Intimidate isn't as good as it used to be. Toxic also isn't very VGC-friendly. Game Freak doesn't care about Smogon. Landorus is pretty good, but Toxic is very niche on it in VGC, which is all Game Freak really cares about.
Also, most of Landorus's checks are already fragile and Lando would rather hit them with an actual attack than use Toxic on them.
This is the kind of videos I sub for!
If you want to play Diamond/Pearl with other players check out the Pokémon Battle Revolution scene! There’s a Discord group where we organize battles, occasional tournaments and even just chat for a bit!
As a TCG player who only plays the video game competitively on rare occasions for fun, I was looking to BDSP to be my first deep dive into competitive Pokémon (specifically VGC) even knowing that the official tournaments would not use it, I thought it be a fun way to learn the game.
I was IMMEDIATELY turned off by how lacking every Mon’s move pool felt. I always felt like I would have 2 or 3 moves on a set and was just scrapping the bottom of the barrel trying to find a 4th one. Again, I have next to no experience in competitive Pokémon so that might’ve just been a me thing but it was a major turn off. Especially knowing that the moves were available in the original DPPt games.
I understand certain situations like Wish Chancey but when non-event Pokémon get moves that we’re easy to obtain removed, that’s what killed it for me.
I swear BDSP was made the way it was just to flip off the players who were begging for it.
I mean, hey, people kept saying gen 4 was a flawless masterpiece that shouldn't be messed with.
Now everyone is mad that it wasn't messed with a crap ton.
@@camharkness literally no one with a brain was saying it was flawless, and the people who did were talking about platinum anyway.
@@329link and yet, here we are. And you're mad at gamefreak more than the really loud part of the Pokemon community that kept yelling, even at gamefreak, that gen 4 was the greatest generation and shouldn't be messed with when being remade. After they flipped about the gen 3 remakes being too different.
@@camharkness Okay we get it you're a corporate shill hoping that big daddy Gamefreak will give you validation
@@snnnaaaaaakeeeee4470 Hey, remember you guys gave a lot of death threats to pokemon devs because you guys were mad about dexit?
Oh but bringing up what the fanbase does no makes me a shill. Because the Pokemon fanbase is the greatest thing ever.
The worst part of Home working like that for BDSP is that there was some discussion on the Sword and Shield vgc community about mons that were in both games potentially being allowed to use moves they learned in BDSP, Riolu getting Follow Me was a big one i remember hearing about, but you cant do that, since moving a Riolu to and from BDSP resets their movepools
I think another really big factor is that the games themselves went out of their way to de-emphasize online battles by removing features such as the random online matchups.
A lot of people did try to get around this initially by sharing around room codes that were specifically meant for people to use if they were seeking battles, but you weren't able to establish rulesets, so it was pretty common to enter a match and expect a 3v3 only to have your opponent bring their whole team of 6. Also, a majority of community effort was aimed at singles, so as a doubles player it became almost impossible to find matches after a while.
It took them about half a year to finally implement the GWS into the game, and for the amount of time it took, I was honestly expecting more than just a wonder trade service that really should have been in the base game. Even an unranked random matchup feature would probably make me feel like I had at least something to do in those games.
I'm left feeling a little lost in the Switch era, because there really aren't any games I can play competitively on base hardware. I collected a ton of Pokémon in BDSP, but that meta is pretty much dead now, and I picked up SwSh really late, so the only option I have now for ranked is ubers, which I'm neither interested in, nor have the resources to actually play, since I don't want to buy the DLC to have access to the requisite Pokémon.
i agree this is the main reason. cutting GTS for home is stupid and so was cutting online matchmaking for convenience sake
I would love to see a pvp version of the pokemon mystery dungeon games with the jank that exist in those games are fun to play with
or even better, Mystery Dungeon with MMORPG element
Spam Earth Power/quake, ominous wind, or any other room wide attacks to win
@@TheGhostFart well they could nerf it, otherwise it will be less fun, most aoe only has range 4 block from player, and imagine Dungeon is bigger so player could Explore more
Simply put, BDSP is a trash tier cash grab, a game that gave Gen 4 a fresh coat of paint, without refreshing any of its actual contents. They tried to make us play Gen 4 in the Gen 8 era.
A bit of a correction Home replaces the entire moveset with level up moves when transferring a pokemon to BDSP of LA. I you transfer that Pokemon back to Sword or shield their move pool reverts to what it was before transfer and vice versa.
When i saw that they removed the bdsp ladders I was crushed. Bdsp Ubers was legit my favourite tier
Oh boy do I love aros, best remakes.
Let me rub some salt to your wounds, folks:
BDSP sold super well
Mario Party 8 sold more than MP1, 2 and 3 combined, alongside MP4, 5, 6 and 7 combined (but not all seven at once), this must mean that people like Mario Party 8 more than the N64 and GameCube titles
@@yoshiwoollyworld That's the conclusion shareholders and other soulless corporate husks would come to.
@@katherinehertel1360 my point is that sales are not a good indication of anything
Had only they implemented the items, movepools, some kind of gimmick (even LGPE had megas) and Sylveon I'd had been happyish
Love the Dpp team having Pokémon named of the songs from the lastest Billy Talent album
I don't think I mind BDSP being their own separate things. Since we're not doing the national dex anymore it's good to have different games that highlight different pokemon. Due to power creep, a bunch of good gen4 pokemon like Empoleon, Infernape, and Lucario, are sorta bad in a meta that have gen5-8 pokemon in them. It's kinda like how ORAS are supposed to be gen3 remakes but practically no gen3 pokemon are OU or commonly used in VGC.
I think having no events and no updates and just kinda dropping the games and forgetting about it was the poor decision. A game will last as long as it's being supported
Crazy how games can be THIS bad and then sell THIS much...
Great video! Gireum made a video just yesterday that talks about how Pokemon isn't treated mainly as a game series anymore and is just a brand. Everything used to tie into the main game of a generation, but now things just come out to meet a market demand. "People want a Gen 4 remake? Fine, but it will be rushed and not compatible with anything from Gen 8, because the regular person looking for nostalgia doesnt care about that." Sad to see this affecting competitive too.
So true. Pokemon Alpha Ruby go hard
I don't know why they took out the new stuff like held items and moves, all the other remakes kept what was added after the originals.
those arent even the most egregious thing, the fact that they made tms consumable because reasons was the worst
@@TheGhostFart true
Oh shit… freeze SAID IT! “Didn’t live up to it”
I wish I could sub over and over to this guy.
I feel one of the biggest things was the lack of crossover with the main gen 8 games honestly. If you look at the other remakes they had a lot of compatibility with their main game of that gen counterparts. They shared a lot of pokemon and mechanics with eachother and had easy crossover transfering from one to the other if you wanted to move your teams to the "new" game. You couldnt do any of that in BDSP. No dynamax if i recall, the moves were different, the pool of pokemon was radically different so you couldnt transfer them, and it was way way too just isolated in a mirade of ways from the current gen 8 metagame to have any influence over it nor have it have any influence on itself to have much in the way of comp audience crossover. That also meant that official comp had to more choose between the main game and the remake as opposed to a more easily transfering the comp from one game to another. I wouldnt be surprised if a similar thing happens with gen 5's remakes.
I'm gonna be a bit of a contrarian here and say I think the bare bones nature of BDSP (at least on Showdown) was actually a good thing for newcomers/returning players who don't know much about the competitive scene. My friends and I started a draft league for BDSP, including a lot of people who never even tried true competitive Pokemon. Having to only worry about the first 4 generations made a more digestible tier list for the draft, while still making coveted picks more limited and exciting to draft. Not having to deal with the mess of modern items on top of literally every other potential gimmick set on a mon also felt healthy for the draft format since there was more predictability. Yes, some mons got unnecessarily shafted (especially Zapdos who literally has no non-electric special moves worth touching). But not having to make a 50/50 on whether or not any given Pokemon was about to drop a toxic and change the entire game was a very welcome change (and hopefully one they keep going forward). Same with Hidden Power, though most Nat Dex drafts seem to ban that move anyway.
All in all, it definitely sucks that they didn't do anything with it officially, and the teasing of Home before it released and didn't even end up changing anything took some wind out of everyone's sails. It would've been nice to get an expanded upon Sw/Sh, but at the same time, those games had 2 waves of DLC that kinda already did what ORAS did (new gigantimax forms = new mega evolutions, etc.) so I don't think it was entirely necessary for BDSP to go that route.
What BDSP ended up being was a more simplified take on the modern Pokemon games. Smaller move pools to have to predict around, the introduction of Fairy to gen 4 (which is a huge shake up in itself), more straightforward items (basically only ever seeing leftovers, life orb, or choice items, aside from a few specific mons using specific items like Guts mons with flame orb). That makes it a good re-introduction to older players who want to try out competitive Pokemon without being thrown into the complicated mess of Nat Dex or Gen 8 VGC
I actually liked BDSP and it helped get me back into Pokémon, so it’s sad that Ilca did everything in their power to make playing this game competitively both difficult and unappealing
Samee
Fuck ILCA
Sucks for me because I don't want to risk losing my Arcues with Judgement, Roar of Time, Spacial Rend, and Shadow Force. Also wish I could sell the game when I/m done with it, but made the dumb decision to buy it digitally.
I’m glad I didn’t buy it. If this is how they continue, I’ll never buy another remake again. Might not buy Scarlet and Violet, either
Imagine how different it would have been, just by adding the Platinum\HGSS Move Tutors as an NPC. Even with the loss of rare transfer moves like Wish Blissey, we'd at least still have those crucial coverage moves like Knock Off\Seed Bomb\Heat Wave
No Pursuit is also SUPER weird, considering they seemingly went out of their way to REMOVE Gen 5+ stuff like Eviolite\Assault Vest\Weakness Policy\Toxic Distribution, but left in things like Fairy Type, Hidden Abilities, etc...
Like go "faithful remake" or don't. Its weird hybrid status is its biggest downfall. No matter what you wanted out of it, something is missing.
all this makes me think is in 3 or 4 years when we get gen 5 remake that it will either be the premier Pokémon game to play or be left to die and there will be 0 in-between depending on how its handled
Bro it's omega ruby not alpha ruby
BDSP is a cash grab feeding on nostalgia through and through - nuff said
I know it would not have helped on Showdown, but as an on cart player I would say a ranked mode for both bss and vgc would have been good. Full integration with SS would have been the best, but if that was off the table at least having something to play for would have gone a long way.
>something to play for
you mean like, a frontier.... of the battling sorts?
I only play this game to shiny hunt using the pokeradar, and they messed that up too. It was much more rewarding to chain in the original games, and it took skill. But in bdsp, it's not if your chain will randomly break, but when, and it's really annoying.
BDSP are the worst Pokémon games ever made imo. The fact that it had a lot less content than Platinum which came out 12 years earlier is inexcusable.
I honestly really liked the movepool limitations. It made for an interesting change of pace and theoretically lowers the barrier for competitive, especially the removal of Hidden Power(practically the game didn’t even have a way to play competitive ingame)
One thing I love about BDSP that other games don’t have recently is the Battle Tower. Getting the 100 win streak was a challenge that I really enjoyed in game.
Yes!! Thank you for saying this. If you simply enjoy the game on its own, it fun and nostalgic. Definitely offers challenges that other games don’t
The mark system implemented in every game since gen 6 is a far more reasonable way to keep old movests out of competitive. Was going to do a second playthrough with a bunch of Hidden ability mons, but I also really wanted to use Kriketune in conjunction with the Murkrow Line for Perish Trapping. Not being able to get Infestation on Kriketune is so sad for a Pokemon that has very few strengths
The one thing I’d change about BDSP is making the game good
As a long time sinnoh fetus nothing was more disappointing than the dropping of bdsp. It was the one thing I was holding out for because I hadn't bought a new Pokemon game since ultra sun and ultra Moon. I think at this point I'm just done with the main series
I remember the hype as soon as it was announced. Many people were very confident about it being more like ORAS, bringing new concepts to Sinnoh. The idea of new gigantamax forms was interesting, maybe regional Sinnohnial forms. In the end, at least we got regional forms on legends Arceus
I love how every snofall pokemon are name after song from the last billy talent album.
I do like the decision on GameFreak's part to keep VGC in Sword and Shield. It means you don't have to buy another game in between generational jumps in order to keep being competitive. You didn't even need to by the DLC as long as you had someone who could trade you the Pokemon you wanted to use.
Sorta, if you wanted to use either of the Calyrex rider forms you needed the DLC. Otherwise you’re correct.
Honestly, I think it was moreso because the pandemic meant Galar hadn't had any world's tournaments AT ALL and that they wanted at least one
@@BlueAizu_ XY came out 10 years ago. Unfortunately things get more expensive over time. The global economic system is an inflationary one, it's just how it works
@@BlueAizu_ I enjoyed Sword/Shield and its DLC significantly more than any of the Gen 6 games
@@chainshaw136 That literally has nothing to do with the argument though?
You really should have mentioned the timer thing - that really got in the way of just making it work on console, too, which really really didn't help. If I had to pick a thing, I'd say that it needed QoL stuff added in more aggressively, if it was going to be simplified. Maybe delete the whole concept of egg moves and tms and everything and just make it level up learnests, or a single unified tutor or something that made it really really simple to get a competitive team up and happening, or more experimentation - if the move details were never going to be compatible, they should have messed around with distribution far far more.
That also was present in SW/Sh
This is likely going to be a trend in future generations as long as dexit and isolating remakes is a thing.
Does this whole thing about Pokémon moves apply equally to Scarlet and Violet as well?
Alpha ruby?
The more and more I hear about BDSP, the more I feel the development was intentionally rigged so the game would be doomed to fail. ILCA would take the fall as the pariahs, Game Freak's pride would remain intact, and BDSP wouldn't pose a threat in stepping on PLA's parade.
They only exist to make PLA and GF look good.
At like 4:45 there is a Rotom-wash sprite on what I assume is not Rotom-wash but just Rotom, I am very confused / why??
Are you talking about the Kingdra doing neutral damage with Hydro Pump? If so, the Rotom formes didn't change its type in gen 4; it was Electric/Ghost in all variants.
It’s unfortunate that gen 4 remakes got treated the worst, I never played DPP much competitively, but I know it’s a great meta game, and if BDSP was successful there would be more players wanting to play/trying out DPP.
Shoulda been a full on ORAS style remakes, with all the improvements made since, updated national dex, Platinum's wider regional pokedex, megas, especially the Hisuian forms, hidden abilities, the whole nine yards.
Might have made me finally buy a switch :P
about the only thing I could see not being justifiably in them would have been dynamax, since that's a very specific Eternatus thing, and Z-moves, since those are specifically an alolan culture piece.
If they wanted to stick with Gen 8's gimmick then they could have introduced new G-Max forms for Pokémon who never appeared in Sw/Sh.Shield. Or new forms for Dialga and Palkia like ORAS did for its legendaries.