Oof, don't even suggest it. A trick room ability might actually be interesting in singles, but it would make double miserable - Speed control is insane, and we have slow bulky offense mons with insane stats out the wazoo right now - even just looking at the leaks coming from next gen, that regional dex would be out of control with Trick Room on switch-in. Also, being able to set and reset trick-room just by pivoting is completely insane - even if the pokemon had terrible stats and a bad movepool people would run it as a protect bot with Sash just for the ability, and because this is pokemon it'd have SOME other game, and even just SOME other game would be too much. If Trick Room and Tailwind on switch-ins ever happen, they better be Box legendaries we only have to suffer for brief seasons.
In the fangame Pokemon Insurgence, Mega Reuniclus has an ability called Speed Swap, which sets Trick Room upon switch and desctivates it if switched into a Trick Room.
@@nealbansal1513 Speed Swap was a move introduced in Gen 7, which swaps the speed stat of the user and the target, disregarding stat changes, permanently. Trick Room is an environmental change, affecting everyone for 5 turns, then reverting. Insurgence had it's 1.0.0 release (let alone early alphas) well before gen 7, with Mega Reuniclus and it's signature ABILITY, not move, Speed Swap, being in the game as early as January 2015. That ability activates trick room on switch in.
Mega Reuniclus was so omega busted because it had Speed Swap and a base speed of like, 20. They later balanced it by buffing (nerfing) it's speed stat to 80, and since it's a mega, you can't just give it a speed lowering item or whatnot.
I'm now reminded of Fidgit from Smogon's create-a-pokemon project. It had the nifty custom ability Persistent, which extends the duration of trick room, gravity, tailwind, and other similar effects. It was fairly successful in making Trick Room viable, so maybe an extending ability rather than an auto-set ability would be better.
I think Trick Room is strong enough, especially in doubles, that I'd almost want the trick room ability to trigger on fainting, rather than triggering on switch-in
@A Cool YooToobist if you just put that on a trick room setter it can sub protect stall while your other Pokémon gets infinite trick room (vgc obv) so yeah that would be broken
The only way this wouldn't be completely broken would be if a complete dead weight pokemon got the auto trick room ability. Unown would be complete dead weight which would be a decent cost for such a good ability (trick room also seems to match unown thematically). Even then, it would completely turn doubles on its head, it would probably have to fail if used in doubles. I'm sure unown would invest in max bulk with an eject button, but since unown is naturally slow, it might also run choice specs since it only gets one attack anyways and would probably go first.
Eh... I don't think like an ability like trick room could ever truly break the game - now, it's undoubtedly true that it would drastically change the metagame, but ultimately what it comes down to is that as soon as trick room shenanigans become popular people will start switching up some of their team to counter it, and trick room is one of the easiest strategies in the game to counter since all you need to do to counter trick room is to use a team that doesn't focus heavily on speed, which there are plenty of ways to do (you don't even need to be slower than the opponent, just using bulky pokemon even if they aren't quite as slow as the opponent's would probably still be good enough to counter it). It could never become truly dominant because it's just too easy to counter if it ever becomes that popular.
Unown actually sounds like the perfect mon for this kind of ability that could make this relatively balanced. They would have to bring back HP tho, or handle it like PLA & have it be only on Unown & always SE.
@@asdfqwerty9241 you just desce8bed why it would break the game. An auto trick room ability would make TR so dominant it would invalidate any fast pokemon. People would all have to start running slow mons to not auto lose to it which would just make them lose to non TR teams. Causing match up strain and making a ton of otherwise excellent mons unviable.
@@asdfqwerty9241 tbh I'd think I'd make the meta shift more twords balance further although I'm not sure I've been playing hail hyper offence since I've started back playing comop
A note on Gravity: remember when Durant was a threat because its Hustle was overcome by Max Moves? Yeah, now consider a comeback to that, but for a whole party. (And a note to everyone who forgot: Flapple loves Gravity, because it not only has Hustle, but its signature move Grav Apple is boosted under the effect of Gravity)
@@skullerclawerbandicoot7966 That's right, Grav Apple's base power increases from 80 to 120 when Gravity is in effect. It's probably a reference to how Isaac Newton came up with his theory of gravity when he saw an apple fall from a tree.
Gravity dosen't actually turn your move totaly accurate. It multiplies the accuracy buy 1.66% (you Can see it with 100% accuracy move in gravity) so zap cannon or hypnosis could still possiblye miss
Multiplying 50% by 1.66% actually makes it smaller, since it’s 0.5 times 0.0166. Just remove the percent symbol from or move the decimal point to the right 2 for 1.66%, and it’s correct.
Hypnosis still hits, it's actually a 1.67 multiplier. I know because there was this popular team archetype in VGC2016 that used Prankster Gravity Sableye and Mega Gengar to fire off 100% accurate hypnosis from Mega Gengar. The team also had a whimsicott that knew Grass Whistle to get more out of the gravity turns but as Grass whistle was 55 accuracy and as 55×1.67=91.85, Grass Whistle still missed
@@AshenDust_ they said to multiply the accuracy by 1.66%, and then brought up zing zap, which is a 100% accurate move (edit: I mixed up zap cannon and zing zap’s accuracy, thank you for correcting me), so it would be 100% (zing zap’s accuracy) times 1.66% (the percent to multiply by)
This would be HELL in doubles, especially with the large amount of speed control that dominates every meta. Regieleki is built to sit there and spam electro web and is a top 3 pokemon for doing pretty much just that. Imagine being unable to set speed control because the moment you do, your opponent switches in the trick room setter and the game adaptively updates the turn order to reward the opponent for being punished. Hell, imagine Regieleki volt switching out into the trick room setter and giving something like Groudon or Calyrex-Ice a completely free turn on turn 1. The value of speed would be completely inversed just by this pokemon having the potential to exist in team preview. At least with trick room setters as they are now, you still have the one turn to stop the trick room, either with fake out, taunt, KO, etc, or even just prepare with proper switches.
I feel like a held item that extends the time trick room is up by two or three turns is enough since it would be way too powerful a strat of it was easy to setup Plus this would give slow trick room setters with cool abilities and strats like Hatterene and Stakataka a chance to shine a bit more in singles
Psy Brick: A glass like, sturdy yet paradoxically immaterial substance that increases the duration of "Room" moves used by the holder by 2 turns. Osmium Ore: A deposit of the most dense metal. It increases the duration of Gravity set by the holder by 2 turns.
You forgot another "Room" move: Wonder Room, which switches all Pokémon's Def and Sp.Def; not a complete waste of a turn, there are some Walls that become much worse Walls overall (Pokémon that cover their lower defensive stat with resistances/immunities to types that are predominantly that type or vies-versa), but overall not a good move. Applying it when you switch in on the other hand might have some niche use for scaring off the noted walls, and it is an Ability that doesn't do nothing (like how abilities such as Keen Eye and Liquid Ooze come up so rarely they may as well say No Ability), but is still a very neutral power. As noted, which Pokémon get the ability massively alters the calculus of value, let us not forget that there are fully evolved weather-setters in the lower tiers, some even Untiered by Smogon. One thing which I think might limit the overpoweredness of Auto-Trick Room is that as it gets more prolific teambuilding may shift such that Pokémon that are slow but not useless outside Trick Room might be added to some teams to counter ATR teams, in fact if it gets super common some people might even make a team that is basically an ATR team, but swaps the setter for another Pokémon that likes Trick Room, making a team that is all but guaranteed to beat any ATR. One other thing that makes Room effects interesting is that applying them when they are already up removes them, this basically never comes up as spending a turn to remove Trick Room (or any of the other Room Effects) is arguably even less useful than putting it up (why spend a turn when you could just wait it out?) but if it is applied automatically I could definitely see mind games and counterplay, such as bringing a setter specifically to remove the effect, in a fashion not dissimilar to how some teams would bring a less used weather setter (often Hail IIRC) just to turn off their opponent's weather.
I like the idea however trickroom is super powerful once the room is up the setup it what makes trick room fair(kinda like weather imo) so I can't say it would be fair because unlike weather's that only affect a few types majorly or just chip opponents, trickroom literally changes the game and kinda rigs it to one side so I can't say with confidence it should be allowed
I would like it in Ubers and AG though. Stuff like Calyrex Ice and Melmetal stuffing out the fast meta scentric mons of Zacian and Calyrex Shadow would be cool. Also I have another point towards it being too good for standard play, weather teams require specific types to abuse the weather to its greatest potential. Trick Room can have Melmetal, Alolan Marowak, Crawdaunt, Hatterene, Stakataka, Alolan Exegguttor. You get my point more varity
Then like the weather abilities, balance it with very narrow distribution. Outside of their legendaries, most of the pokemon who get the weather abilities (or the terrain abilities) usually aren't amazing, but their ability makes them valuable.
Something that could be interesting is an ability that works like desolate land/primordial sea/delta stream where the trick room/magic room/gravity would be active as long as the pokemon is active and leaves when it switches out. Side note: Claydol would prolly fit pretty well with the gravity one (or any of them)
I would advocate Spinda to learn this Trick Room ability. Spinda has below average speed base stats, but not so low to abuse the ability if it’s actually over-centralizing the meta. It would also compete against it’s really good Contrary ability. Also, Spinda would fit thematically because of it’s hilariously clumsy, helpless, confused, and completely unassuming Pokédex entry @u@
Having auto gravity may actually make grass types more valuable defensively, since they resist ground naturally, but would also work really well with grassy terrain, which would also be fantastic to help counter ground spam teams.
Orbeetle should for sure be the guy to get a gravity move. It’s gmax move is gmax gravitas, which already sets gravity. Gravity increases accuracy, and I would love to be able to use flapple with gravity for the accuracy and boosted grav apple.
If a Magic Room/Wonder Room/no Room effect ability was introduced it could massively change VGC just by threatening Trick Room teams into being two-speed. They'd be more interesting than a Trick Room setter tbh.
@@matthewbird1067 You already have mind games like this. Some teams with zero use for trick room bring a trick room setter to counter trick room teams if they're too strong. Having an ability pokemon would make these mind games even more intense
@A Cool YooToobist That's an interesting idea, might be a bit op though. One way you could make it balanced is make it work like choice band/scarf/specs and let you only use one move. At the end of the day it is a rom hack so it doesn't have to be balanced. Important part is just to make it fun!
@A Cool YooToobist The problem is KT would be playing a completely different speed game than the rest of the game. With KT it would be able to out speed almost all choice scarf users. Making it activate every few turns (less often than quick claw) would make it balanced, since it does affect the whole field.
In doubles, this ability would be absolutely insane. For an ability that would be fine for both formats, how about an ability that sets wonder room? Wonder room essentially swaps the special defense and physical defense stats of all Pokemon when wonder room is in effect.
Interesting topic, I must say. Here are my two ideas: 1. Make a signature ability that reverses turn order for your pokemon vs pokemon you are facing. Could be really interesting for singles, as well as doubles. 2. Let pokemon set up the trick room on switch BUT when that pokemon switches out, the trick room ends. Think of it like Desolate Land or Primordial Sea.
I don't know about that. It'll definitely be stronger in doubles, but in singles, it would also be powerful. Don't underestimate the power of one less turn for setup and possibly freeing one move slot.
It’d be interesting if the ability made it so trick room was setup at the end of the turn still, but it would be automatic as long as the pokemon with the ability was still in, Sort of like flame orb or toxic orb does. This gives your opponent some counterplay and reduces the tempo gain since the Pokémon can’t switch right back out. To me it seems like a much more cautious way to implement something so potentially game warping. As for pokemon that get the ability, I think it would be interesting on Unknown, Celebi, Dialga, or other pokemon that are known for messing with time or warping reality. On the topic of unknown, I’d be really interested to see it one day get a schooling esque ability, but that’d admittedly be hard to make a theorymon video on since that’s such a large and potentially ambiguous change.
I think the ability for Trick Room could be called Distort, and a Pokémon like Beheeyem, whose usage is criminally low, could be a recipient for it. One of the ways to balance it out would be to only give it to Pokémon that cannot abuse it by themselves, so Cresselia getting it for me is a big no-no. As for Gravity, I could instead see the Magnemite line have Sturdy replaced with Grounding, an Ability that would forcibly ground any Steel type Pokémon. All of a sudden, Magnezone is a deadly weapon that can completely crush Corviknight and Skarmory without the need for Magnet Pull gimmickery, but at the cost of it being really weak to Ground moves as well, so it becomes a big tradeoff.
why would magnezone want to hit corviknight with ground type moves when it can just hit it with electric type moves? also magnet pull isn't a gimmick it's a very viable strategy but i agree about giving beyehem trick room that would be VERY good for him considering his low speed holds him back
I actually had my own fakemon with a mega form containing an ability I called tricky, which would bring I trick room upon switch in, I also came up for a tailwind variant I called breezy
I get home and open youtube to check what the algorithm has suggested for me on my home page. I open every video that interests me in new tabs, yours always included. I sometimes find myself avoiding watching your videos first because I yours are guaranteed to keep me entertained the whole time and I might not even like the others. My point is that your content is GREAT. I love anything and everything you put out. Keep it up man.
I think the easier and more likely solution than an ability is to give an item that extends the turns to 8. Not only do weathers have this with damp rock, heat rock, smooth rock and icy rock, but it also extends past weather to light clay giving barrier, reflect, and aurora veil extra turns so we already see that game freak is willing to have this mechanic spread.
Even an item extending trick room is dubious since it still makes TR too strong. As instead of auto TR you now have TR lasting the majority of a agme6 and thus invalidating traditional speed tiers and mechanics. Singles would be worse since TR teams could now just run two TR setters with the item and have 4 overbearing mons that your standard offense or even BO can't handle together. And yeah screens get an extender but honestly screens deserve a nerf at this point. The length of their duration makes them pretty brainless and unbalanced when light clay is involved.
I think the magic room ability is actually interesting. I feel like having an auto setter for magic room would actually give it way more utility. Magic room gets no usage because you have to take up a moveslot for it but having a way to automatically disable items might actually come in handy. Think of all the Mons that rely on HDBs or certain scarf users that could potentially steam roll you. A Magic room setter might actually work out really well and I think it could potentially make or break a lot of games. Kinda feels like neutralizing gas. Actually has a lot of utility but you wouldn't run gastro acid on something just to temporarily remove an ability
In the pet mod we’re working on we have the ability “terraforming” which is a gravity setting ability. Currently only three Pokémon get it. Beeheeyem, elgyem, and mega-starmie (a custom mon we added).
Another thing with trick room is that if you use it while its already up it reverses the trick room and makes it normal again, so everyone would have a trick room setter on their team even if they werent a trick room team, just to send it in and turn off the trick room.
A Gravity-setting ability would be really cool for Solrock & Lunatone, and it would be very thematic. They'd both appreciate accuracy boosts on their rock type attacks & Hypnosis. As for a trick room setter, to keep it balanced in doubles it would have to be on an otherwise garbage pokemon or an NFE. Unown, Natu, Dottler, Psyduck, maybe Hypno? Cosmog? Otherwise if it ended up on like Oranguru or Orbeetle they'd get banned to kingdom come
What if Cosmoem got the Trick Room-setting ability? It could switch in to activate Trick Room and tank some hits, then use Teleport to get a teammate in safely. But since that's all it could do, I'm not sure if it would be of any use, even in the lowest Smogon tiers.
Hypno has too many tricks up his sleeve. He has a lot of statuses with Hypnosis, Taunt, Thunder Wave and Toxic, three setup moves in Calm Mind, Nasty Plot, and worst of all, Belly Drum (he also has Knock Off and Elemental + Drain Punches), and he can set Screens, on top of an 85/70/115 bulk WITH ACCESS TO ALLY SWITCH: he'd be a total nightmare to face in VGC. The only two fully evolved Psychic (besides Unown, of course) mons i'd allow to get a TR setting ability are Grumpig (which has more special coverage but still weak offense and is slightly more frail and fast than Hypno, making him and his Ally Switch weaker under TR by an extent) and maybe Beheeyem, even if with his huge Special Attack, good coverage, access to Nasty Plot and Expanding Force, and super low Speed, it risks of becoming a fearsome wallbreaker in VGC (he also have Screens and Ally switch too, but at least he's REALLY frail)
I’ve had a Trick Room-setting idea for a Missingno ability for a while now, but another idea I had for it is: what if there was an ability that inverts type effectiveness, or sets a terrain that inverts type effectiveness?
Wasnt there also a Wonder Room as well? I think that move or room would be better if it can shut down all items entirely for 5 turns like choices, megas and zstones. Ofcourse, pokemons that had already mega evolved wouldnt revert back but the possibility of shutting it before it happen is a cool strategy in and of itself.
I've had an idea for a Trick Room and other room extending item, with the limitation that it only works if there are less than 3 Pokemon on the field, so 99.9% of the time it would only ever take effect in Singles. For auto-Gravity, I've thought about an ability, uncreatively named "Gravitate", which would go onto Solrock, Lunatone, Chingling / Chimecho, Orbeetle, and I think Stonjourner. If such an ability would be overpowered, maybe making like the Primals' abilities would be more balanced
I always thought there should be a legendary trio in which its members had abilities to summon Trick Room, Magic Room and Wonder Room (but obviously the only viable one would be the Trick Room) It would be nice if the lake trio from Sinnoh had them as hidden abilities
Thematically, hoopa would have trick room. Or, maybe Mr mime. Heck, maybe mime Jr. only. Gameplay-wise, I think shedinja as the only trick room pokemon would make the most balance sense.
Follow-up questions, on more reasonable versions: - What if there was an ability that gets you the free Trick Room only when KO'd? Pros: full 5 turns, you can freely use your other setup moves; Cons: once per battle, opponent can dictate when you get it / set up on you (Explosion aside) - What if that was tied to a consummable held item instead? Pros: You can keep better abilities, available to everyone, opens up recycle/trick options. Cons: single use, takes the spot of an otherwise better item (if held by the sweeper), if it gets meta it can be countered by itself on a slow-but-faster mon that's strong against the most popular choice.
I think an auto setter for wonder room would be very interesting, especially in doubles. All of a sudden your blissey is a defensive tank and weak to special moves?
It would be awesome if the ability was in Slowking and its name was "Slowness Kingdom", but sadly Slowking alredy has 3 abilities. And the gravity effect ability could be on Solrock, Lunatone or Claydol and its name could be "Newtonian Force" But a good way to prevent it to being a problem in doubles however is making these abilities unique to mythical pokemon, like the trick room ability being exclusive to Celebi and the gravity ability being exclusive to Jirachi or in some event-only pokemon, like the battle bond ability in Greninja
Here’s one: What would the meta game be like if the species clause did not limit variants? What I mean is obviously you cannot run 6 of the same Pokémon but…what if species clause was not limited by variants? What if you could run both Zygarde 10% and 50% in the same team? Kyurem black and white in the same team? All alolan / Galarian forms alongside their counterparts? The genies and their incarnate forms? Personally I feel it would negatively impact the meta game by making team building a slog to deal with, but overall on the whole I wouldn’t say it’s an unbearable thing. It would spice up some strategies at least, especially hyper offence related ones.
In OU you could run rotom wash and heat to completely shut down heatran as there is no way it can deal with both of them and not compromise itself against the rest of the meta. It can either Z (Well power herb now but I'm still in alola) solar beam wash or rock slide/ ancient power heat. In ubers I could running deoxsys attack and speed on the same team. I think the species clause was the reason people were running greninja as a lead since this freed up deoxsys to attack in its attack form. Without this limitation unfortunately this means no more greninja in ubers.
Putting this on almost any mon that fits thematically is going to be *broken.* Why? simple, most of them are psychic types. What do most psychic types get? A negative priority switching move, Teleport. Imaging this on the kanto slow twins. They could use slack off to heal themselves and teleport to bring their absolutley busted teammates in for free and they could spread scald burns and get free future sight chip all game. This ability is so good, it could bring mons like claydol back into relavence if it got it. Rapid spin, free trick room, stealth rocks, trick shenanigans (the move trick not trick room), and good bulk. Hell, it could bring god damn BEEHEEYEM into relavance if it got this ability. Another thing I want to point out is giving 4 turns instead of 3 turns to mons that use trick room would be amazing on its own, but it's also the fact that the mon that sets up trick room, if you preserve it right, can set it up like 3 times. Send it in, tank hit, switch out. It could do this probably 2 times if you send it in against the right mon, but even if you send it in a third time on a turn its going to die, trick room will *still* go up, and the incoming mon will get 5 turns of trick room instead of 4. This means the average battle will have trick room up for AT LEAST 13 turns for mons that arent setting it up, for *FREE.* Could you imagine having to find a way to stall out an alolan marowak for 13 turns?? This ability would be absolutley cracked.
@@MouldMadeMind No. Priority moves still act the same, except If both mons are using a positive priority move then the slower one goes first in trick room
Earth Bond Wigglytuff with flawless Zap Cannon, Sing, Fire Blast, Blizzard, perfect coverage between Moon Blast and Gravity Hidden Power Ground, and Teleport.
Gravity doesn't make all moves 100% accurate, it just raises the accuracy by 66.7% or so, enough so hypnosis shouldn't miss on regular conditions but Zap cannon has still a 1/6 chance of missing, which still would be enough to make the move amazing.
You know I was just thinking about this the other day. I play a game called Temtem in which a Tem(Pokemon) has an ability that's basically trick room. That tem has always been S tier ever since it was recently nerfed. Temtem has only double battles and no singles at all. So if anything I know from Temtem, it would be one of the most broken things for sure.
While it would probably destroy doubles, I think it would be pretty neat for a relatively fast, somewhat bulky support Pokemon to have swap-in Trick Room to act as a double edged sword. It can set up Trick Room for its allies just by swapping in but doesn't abuse trick room by itself except against speedy wallbreakers. I don't think any Pokemon currently exists which would fit that niche particularly well, but if I had to name one it would be Celebi. There is a thematic link between its time travel capabilities in lore, it has a good support setup with okay bulk, and its base 100 speed is fast enough for trick room to be a negative against the type of walls a support Celebi would want to switch into. It would require a lot of testing, but considering the inherent drawbacks and Celebi's poor matchups against wallbreakers who would suffer from a sudden Trick Room I think that would be an interesting way to introduce the effect without creating an incredibly broken monstrosity. As a side benefit Celebi being Mythical means that such an experimental introduction would be less likely to destroy Doubles for a Singles experiment
Abilities that should be prioritized: * uses gravity on switch-in * uses tailwind on switch-in * magic room on switch-in (ideal) * wonder room on switch-in (ideal) You get the idea
I feel like trick room would be absolutely broken as an ability. While the idea is cool, it would be nigh uncounterable. Not every game has a trick room setter in it to reverse it, and some teams would just be countered outright by it. Plus it would be very toxic to have a guessing game of both teams having the trick room ability to reverse it, or it would create a game of guessing if it has the trick room ability or not.
Fun to see this dissection since I'm currently part of a team working on a fangame (working title Project Chasm) that aims to rebalance basically every Pokemon in the game focusing exclusively on the PvE side of Pokemon, not competitive. What we did for Girafarig was give it the Ability "Trickster" which sets Trick Room on entry. We haven't been able to test it extensively since it's a more midgame Pokemon and we've only got content through the sixth gym so far, but I'm very interested in if it's broken in a singleplayer environment with both singles and doubles.
I was thinking that maybe something better than an ability that sets up Trick Room would be an Item that extends the duration of Trick Room like the Damp Rock for Rain... Although it may be a bit OP
I appreciate that you care about theme and aesthetic consistency. So many competitive games people don't care if their equipment or whatever looks like shit as long as it gets a win.
Based on all the comments about how doubles auto-trick room would be broken, why not a Primal/Legendary that keeps Trick Room/Gravity off as long as it's on the field, and then Time/Gravity shifts back to normal whenever it leaves the field? Of course this would likely go to the Primal forms of Dialga and Palkia once they become transferable. But as I saw with one comment, Smogon's Fidgit and its ability, Persistant, is really cool, and i'd like to see it make its way to the official metagame. Though on that note, to balance things out, we could get a Pokemon with either an Anti-Gravity Ability (Nullifies Ground Moves entirely and makes all Pokemon Float at the cost of less accuracy on moves that have a base miss chance.) Or an Ability that refreshes the field of Rooms/Tailwind/Gravity (But not Hazards) on switch in, similar to Mr. Rime's Screen Cleaner.
I think if gave a pokemon an auto setting trick room ability, you'd need to invent a way to get RID of trick room without waiting it out. Something like how weather can be reset or changed with certain moves or abilities, or how dual screens can be broken by brick break or blown away by defog
So, fun fact. I tried making a ROMhack that included a Trick Room setting Ability, called Trick Arena, and gave it exclusively to a Psychic-Type I created called Swaplace, that is very much the Dusknoir model; slow, huge defenses, one high attacking stat, pitiful HP. In testing, everyone suddenly got very familiar with ways to kill Swaplace. U-Turn was everywhere, Pursuit became pretty centralizing, Seismic Toss took advantage of its relatively low base HP. Swaplace users got very good at allocating EVs to make the most of their bulk, used support mons to keep Swaplace healthy at all times (mostly centering on Farewell, an even weaker Fairy-Type Volt Switch that also heals the mon switching in about as much as a Sitrus Berry, making it really solid for tempo), and some even ran attacking sets for Swaplace itself to be the Trick Room abuser in some cases. People even went out of their way to put Crawdaunt on Swaplace teams, given its low Speed and ability to handle most Swaplace checks.
In Temtem, there's a trait (ability) that does basically the same thing called Deceit Aura. It was so broken that in the latest update, they made it cut the holder's HP in half upon switching-in.
Having a trick room ability is an interesting concept for sure, however, it will dominate doubles in un-foreseen levels as a team can quickly set up or remove the trick room, which might result in an unhealthy meta as every team needs to run a mon with the trick room ability to either abuse or counter trick room teams itself. If this were to become a thing, hopefully, it's only accessible to mons that are relatively weak and are in desperate need of a buff, like clay doll or the lake trio
I feel like Malamar would be the perfect pokemon to get this ability. It makes sense from a theming perspective since Malamar's whole theme is flipping things on their head, so having an ability that flips the turn order feels appropriate. But also from a balance perspective, since it's typing means you would still have to skillfully maneuver around U-turn to make sure you don't get blown up instantly.
I came up with an ability known as Dimension Distort, which is an auto Trick Room. It’s the signature ability of a Rock/Psychic-type fossil fakemon. It’s definitely gonna carry it to Ubers alone.
In temtem one of the starters actually did get trick room as an ability. It was apparently so good they had to nerf it where it loses a lot of HP every time it activated. Granted temtem is all double battles so it makes sense why it would be broken
One thing to consider is that unlike Rain Dance or Grassy Terrain, using Trick Room after it has already been used, actually ends the Trick Room immediately. So unless you're using your Trick Room Ability Pokemon *only* to activate Trick Room, you'd have to constantly balance around it deactivating its own Trick Room. Which is a serious consideration since switching is a huge factor in Singles. Wouldn't really effect Doubles, outside of maybe someone bringing in their own Trick Roomy solely to get rid of others'. It'd still be a freaking broken as hell ability.
Maybe something like the weather rocks, that extend the length of trick room as a held item, or maybe an ability that extends trick room when used could be good.
Trick room as an ability is insane. I come from Temtem which, while only double battles, it is exclusive to one mon, with a high base speed, which is frail, has several weaknesses, only last four turn and only active when the mon starts the turn on the field and it was still busted. Recently they nerfed trick room mons to have half their max hp and it’s finally no longer meta defining.
I feel like gravity makes the most sense, as the amount of benefits and the cost balance each other out pretty well. The accuracy boost could have some niche usage, the removal of ground type immunities is pretty good too, but pokemon that sweep with earthquake in doubles would be severely limited in what allies they can have, as the only way to be immune to earthquakes would be through telepathy. Gravity also has a buff that not a lot of people know about, which is that flapple’s signature move grav apple gets 1,5x bp during gravity Also, the accuracy boost is only 5/3x, it doesn’t make all moves never miss
Having Trick Room abilities, Gravity abilities etc is definitely overpowered since you can control momentum anytime by just switching out and sacking them in case the they run out. The best thing I think there is to do is not make an ability but create an item that increases their turns like the weather stones for their respective weather.
I always thought that, when megas were still a thing, that’d get some mega or primal form of Dialga and Palkia with abilities that auto set trick room and gravity respectively. It fits thematically but it does seem way more overpowered to auto set trick room rather than protect tho
I think my way for balancing this would have this effect to be attached to held item, which would be used up when it was switched in for the first time. That would force the pokemon to be used like the Azelf lead mentioned in the video
a good way to balance it might be to have the ability activate at the end of the turn, much like how trick room has negative priority. this means that eject button and pivot sacking become unusable strategies for setting up trick room, and it increases the counterplay by threatening a KO. it's auto trick room, so it'll obviously still be broken, but this might make things a little better
In the fangame Pokemon Insurgence, they gave Reuniclus a Mega Evolution. Upon Mega Evolving, it gains the ability Speed Swap. This ability sets up a Trick Room upon activation. However, if the Pokemon appears on the field while there is a Trick Room activated, then the Trick Room will disappear.
A good way to balance this ability is to have it activate at the end of the turn. That way you can't use eject button switch in and you'd have to survive the switch in to set it up.
A few ideas I thought of for some theory crafting: 1. What if there’s an ability like Intimidate that lowers Special Attack? 2. Speaking of Trick Room, what if there was an item like Light Clay (or a buffed light clay) for the Room Moves, Gravity, and / or Terrains? 3. What if there was a new trick room like room called “Neutralizing Room” (reference to Neutralizing Gas), where all abilities would be negated for 5 turns?
Gravity only multiplies accuracy by 5/3, so any move below 60 accuracy can still miss. OHKO moves are still too inaccurate to be viable. A move like Sing still would have a chance to miss, but is much more reliable.
I think it might make more sense if there was an item that set the weather for lack of a better word. Then you don't get to continually set it every time that pokemon comes in
Trick room as ability sounds terrifying the most likely setters are strong tanks that can absorb hits and switch out as soon as they come out and give their abuses more time to tear though your team since you have to deal with it and trying to stop them from resetting trick room also as a pokemon to get it id say Mr mime would be a fitting pokemon to get that move thematically and him being not as bulky would make him alot easier to deal with
An alternative idea would be a held item that extends it to 8 turns, similar to the weather rocks. 8 turns is a fair bit, but naturally you'd give up an item slot for it.
One thing that's worth noting: gravity does NOT affect OHKO moves. OHKO moves ignore all accuracy/evasions buffs (excluding lock-on/mind reader, which bypass accuracy). And since Gravity multiplies accuracy by 5/3, any move that has 60% accuracy or higher is guaranteed to hit barring accuracy drops. This means that there are only 7 moves that can still miss with Gravity; Dark Void, Dynamic Punch, Inferno, Zap Cannon (50% to 83%) and Sing, Supersonic and Grass Whistle (55% to 92%).
Auto Trick Room would be one of the strongest abilities in singles, and THE single best ability in doubles, period. Speed is the most important stat in Pokemon, and a good speed stat alongside either a good attacking stat or a good supporting moveset is more than enough to make some Pokemon viable: Trick Room changes this and now teams would have to deal with near un-killable tanks who also get to move first. I would much rather have an item that extends its duration like the Weather Rocks, Light Clay and Terrain Extender do for weather, screens and terrains. Maybe a Room Expander that makes "Rooms" last more, and maybe even Gravity. Something that extends the duration of Tailwind would be cool too. As for Auto Gravity, it would also be insanely OP and I think most people don't realize how much it would be, since the only thing that keeps Ground in check is Flying. Bug resisting Ground is almost not important because a lot relevant bugs have a secondary typing weak to ground anyways (Volcarona, Forretress, Scizor...) so the interaction becomes neutral, and same thing happens with Grass, since a lot of good Grass Pokémon have a secondary typing weak to Ground too, like Ferrothorn, Kartana, Venusaur or Amoongus. Most offensive types have to deal with either a few common mons with x4 resist or immunities (Dragon, Ghost, Fairy, Ice and Fighting are some of the most common offensive types, but there are common Pokémon that are inmune to them or have a x4 resistance) and Ground is no exception to this, but Gravity removes what keeps it in check, which is Flying being inmune to it (there is no viable x4 resist to Ground since Bug/Grass is both a terrible and uncommon typing). Sure, Grassy Terrain also reduces the effectiveness of Ground significantly, but it is a Terrain after all and thus you can override it with your own too. Basically the only way of dealing with Ground spam would be using Grassy Terrain or using the few Bug or Grass mons that actually resist it and don't take neutral damage from it. The cherry on top definitely is the fact a lot of relevant Flying types have a secondary typing weak to Ground anyways, like Skarmory, Celesteela, Corviknight, Zapdos, Thundurus, Moltres and so on. Also, a few Levitate users benefit greatly from their Ground immunity, like the two best Rotom forms and Bronzong, it is not as prevalent but still worth mentioning. Ground is not balanced with Gravity in mind in the slightest. Oh, and let's remember, you don't NEED to be a Ground type to spam Ground attacks, since Earthquake is one of the best moves in the game and even without STAB it can hit like a truck.
An interesting idea would be something like slowking’s chilly reception but for trick room, i mean bulky pokemon love a good slow pivot move anyway, but it would also enable a much easier switch to a trick room abuser and also get the full 5 turns of trick room, another thing is that it wouldnt ruin doubles formats (i think, obviously we cant truly know) because it still needs time to set up, but could be very interesting to allow 2 trick room abusers to attempt to use trick room to break down a team
Trick room as an ability is probably insanely powerful, but *if* it did happen its gotta go on beheeyem. maybe it could give it some relevance. A hypothetical gravity ability could make sense for it too. Maybe I just want that fella to get some love and be a bit unique.
One thing which feels kind of weird is, the low prio of trick room means that the user acts probably last. But this still counts as a round for trick room which makes it effectively a four round effect (and not 5). Compared to a weather move in doubles you profit since the weather user is allowed to act. For example sableye uses rain dance with his ability prankster. Sableye acts first and his partner Ludicolo with swift swim immediately benefits and is now the fastest Pokémon on the field. It could use the first turn of rain and still has 4 more rounds. This does not apply with trick room because of its low prio. The first turn of trick room is always a turn of setting up which cannot be used effectively.
There's a Romhack called XG:Next Gen (A romhack of XD gale of darkness) and it gives Slowking an ability called Tricker, which is the Trick Room ability. Funny enough, the romhacker actually had to program in Trick Room into gen 3 (along with fairy type), as it didn't exist.
The turn that you set up trick room actually counts as the first turn of trick room (which doesn't make any sense, because the move trick room literally always goes last), so it effectively only lasts 4 turns. Including the turn to switch out or healing wish, you only ever get 3 turns to use trick room in singles.
What if there was an eject pack ability on a pokemon with trick room? You could run room service so that when you use trick room, you absorb a hit, like with teleport, then set up trick room and instantly switch out into your sweeper, since the room service lowered your speed. Boom, free trick rooms, and all you have to do is convert an existing item into an ability
Something that would be a little more balanced, and wouldn't ruin doubles, would be room/weather/terrain abilities that, rather than activating when the mon is sent out, activate the first time it uses a move. This would enable counterplay with fakeout, taunt, double targeting, etc., and would prevent a strategy like leading with 2 specs/banded swift swimmers, and immediately switching out one for your drizzle mon. New moves could also work. Like a neutral priority trick room that causes the user to faint. That could be really useful in singles, but could also work as a high risk/reward strategy in doubles. There could be a psychic status move that harshly lowers the targets speed and sets gravity. This also has me thinking about a +1 priority move that clears weather and attempts to set tailwind on both sides of the field. (the tailwind could counter the opponents tailwind, by canceling it out, and potentially giving you 1-3 tailwind turns after theirs wears out) I think just making role compressive moves for weather and room effects would do the trick. Then you can distribute them to some otherwise outclassed old gen pokemon.
Ever seen The Garbodor's video where he used Belly Drum Choice Band Azumarill on Magic Room? Now imagine this thing (with wish support, of course) while magic room is an ability...
Oof, don't even suggest it. A trick room ability might actually be interesting in singles, but it would make double miserable - Speed control is insane, and we have slow bulky offense mons with insane stats out the wazoo right now - even just looking at the leaks coming from next gen, that regional dex would be out of control with Trick Room on switch-in. Also, being able to set and reset trick-room just by pivoting is completely insane - even if the pokemon had terrible stats and a bad movepool people would run it as a protect bot with Sash just for the ability, and because this is pokemon it'd have SOME other game, and even just SOME other game would be too much. If Trick Room and Tailwind on switch-ins ever happen, they better be Box legendaries we only have to suffer for brief seasons.
Where are the leaks? 👀
Don’t ever bother with leaks until like a month before release. Fake leaks are rampant after a gen is announced. Every time.
God forbid singles get preferential treatment for once
Or for mythical pokémon (like mew or hoopa), since they're banned in VGC.
Rayquaza makes sense lore wise to set tailwind
Dialga with Trick Room and Palkia with Gravity have the most thematic sense, though they wouldn't affect OU obviously
Yes!
@Adal Tbf they are NOT good on VGC right now.
@@N12015 they’re ok, but if Dialga had Trick Surge or whatever it would be better than Kyogre and Zacian
@@N12015 Even Magikarp with this ability would be broken in VGC.
I was thinking the same thing. these abilities have to go on legendary pokemon just to protect everything under ubers.
I feel like a gravity ability called something like "gravitas" or "heavy presence" would be an interesting inclusion to pokemon
Regigigas should get that, it’s a really heavy Pokémon and Slow Start is extremely bad, it doesn’t even balance it since pokemon like Zacian exist
@@noinfo1018 Just removing Gigas' ability would already make it broken.
G-max gravitas is a move already i think
@@MrZoblox it's a move not an ability
Big Guy's that ability
In the fangame Pokemon Insurgence, Mega Reuniclus has an ability called Speed Swap, which sets Trick Room upon switch and desctivates it if switched into a Trick Room.
Damn another reason I need to play insurence
As soon as I saw the title of the video I thought of this. That game had some of the best fan made megas ever
Isn't speed swap already a move? the idea is basically just using trick room on switch in, which is what the idea was
@@nealbansal1513 Speed Swap was a move introduced in Gen 7, which swaps the speed stat of the user and the target, disregarding stat changes, permanently. Trick Room is an environmental change, affecting everyone for 5 turns, then reverting.
Insurgence had it's 1.0.0 release (let alone early alphas) well before gen 7, with Mega Reuniclus and it's signature ABILITY, not move, Speed Swap, being in the game as early as January 2015. That ability activates trick room on switch in.
Mega Reuniclus was so omega busted because it had Speed Swap and a base speed of like, 20. They later balanced it by buffing (nerfing) it's speed stat to 80, and since it's a mega, you can't just give it a speed lowering item or whatnot.
I'm now reminded of Fidgit from Smogon's create-a-pokemon project. It had the nifty custom ability Persistent, which extends the duration of trick room, gravity, tailwind, and other similar effects. It was fairly successful in making Trick Room viable, so maybe an extending ability rather than an auto-set ability would be better.
That would be cool as an item too considering the weather rocks, as well as giving more counterplay in knock off/trick
Trick Room is consistently fantastic in CAP.
This. Exactly this.
And with Trick Room CAP - since its Speed nerf, I like Choice Band V-Create Necturna in the TR CAP.
Or just make terrain extender affect Trick room :/
I think Trick Room is strong enough, especially in doubles, that I'd almost want the trick room ability to trigger on fainting, rather than triggering on switch-in
Make a 'mon that only knows self destruction or other sacrificial moves and only give it to that.
Something like sand spit but with death, would b really cool on a healing wish user
Oh, and here I was thinking of an infinite trick room until that mon faints (and it’s extremely frail, probably lacking specific defensive options)
@@theoverseer393 ok but it would just sub protect stall while your other mon destroys the other team
@A Cool YooToobist if you just put that on a trick room setter it can sub protect stall while your other Pokémon gets infinite trick room (vgc obv) so yeah that would be broken
The only way this wouldn't be completely broken would be if a complete dead weight pokemon got the auto trick room ability. Unown would be complete dead weight which would be a decent cost for such a good ability (trick room also seems to match unown thematically).
Even then, it would completely turn doubles on its head, it would probably have to fail if used in doubles.
I'm sure unown would invest in max bulk with an eject button, but since unown is naturally slow, it might also run choice specs since it only gets one attack anyways and would probably go first.
I mean isn't basically losing a pokemon a pretty bad cost?
Eh... I don't think like an ability like trick room could ever truly break the game - now, it's undoubtedly true that it would drastically change the metagame, but ultimately what it comes down to is that as soon as trick room shenanigans become popular people will start switching up some of their team to counter it, and trick room is one of the easiest strategies in the game to counter since all you need to do to counter trick room is to use a team that doesn't focus heavily on speed, which there are plenty of ways to do (you don't even need to be slower than the opponent, just using bulky pokemon even if they aren't quite as slow as the opponent's would probably still be good enough to counter it). It could never become truly dominant because it's just too easy to counter if it ever becomes that popular.
Unown actually sounds like the perfect mon for this kind of ability that could make this relatively balanced. They would have to bring back HP tho, or handle it like PLA & have it be only on Unown & always SE.
@@asdfqwerty9241 you just desce8bed why it would break the game. An auto trick room ability would make TR so dominant it would invalidate any fast pokemon. People would all have to start running slow mons to not auto lose to it which would just make them lose to non TR teams. Causing match up strain and making a ton of otherwise excellent mons unviable.
@@asdfqwerty9241 tbh I'd think I'd make the meta shift more twords balance further although I'm not sure I've been playing hail hyper offence since I've started back playing comop
A note on Gravity: remember when Durant was a threat because its Hustle was overcome by Max Moves? Yeah, now consider a comeback to that, but for a whole party. (And a note to everyone who forgot: Flapple loves Gravity, because it not only has Hustle, but its signature move Grav Apple is boosted under the effect of Gravity)
Wait what? Grav Apples stronger under Gravity?
@@skullerclawerbandicoot7966 That's right, Grav Apple's base power increases from 80 to 120 when Gravity is in effect. It's probably a reference to how Isaac Newton came up with his theory of gravity when he saw an apple fall from a tree.
Gravity dosen't actually turn your move totaly accurate. It multiplies the accuracy buy 1.66% (you Can see it with 100% accuracy move in gravity) so zap cannon or hypnosis could still possiblye miss
Multiplying 50% by 1.66% actually makes it smaller, since it’s 0.5 times 0.0166. Just remove the percent symbol from or move the decimal point to the right 2 for 1.66%, and it’s correct.
Hypnosis still hits, it's actually a 1.67 multiplier.
I know because there was this popular team archetype in VGC2016 that used Prankster Gravity Sableye and Mega Gengar to fire off 100% accurate hypnosis from Mega Gengar.
The team also had a whimsicott that knew Grass Whistle to get more out of the gravity turns but as Grass whistle was 55 accuracy and as 55×1.67=91.85, Grass Whistle still missed
@@SunshineRey it multiplies 50 by 1.66%, not 50% by 1.66%
@@SunshineRey They made an error. It's not 1.66%, it's just 1.66×, turning 50% accurate moves 83% accurate, effectively.
@@AshenDust_ they said to multiply the accuracy by 1.66%, and then brought up zing zap, which is a 100% accurate move (edit: I mixed up zap cannon and zing zap’s accuracy, thank you for correcting me), so it would be 100% (zing zap’s accuracy) times 1.66% (the percent to multiply by)
This would be HELL in doubles, especially with the large amount of speed control that dominates every meta. Regieleki is built to sit there and spam electro web and is a top 3 pokemon for doing pretty much just that. Imagine being unable to set speed control because the moment you do, your opponent switches in the trick room setter and the game adaptively updates the turn order to reward the opponent for being punished. Hell, imagine Regieleki volt switching out into the trick room setter and giving something like Groudon or Calyrex-Ice a completely free turn on turn 1. The value of speed would be completely inversed just by this pokemon having the potential to exist in team preview. At least with trick room setters as they are now, you still have the one turn to stop the trick room, either with fake out, taunt, KO, etc, or even just prepare with proper switches.
@A Cool YooToobist i feel like this would seriously hurt the vgc meta too because it would be completely unpredictable in team preview too
@A Cool YooToobist ohhhh alright well then yeah that makes a lot more sense and actually seems pretty cool
Isn't Regieleki one of the few Pokemon who can actually boost its speed stat high enough to ignore trick room because of how it's programmed?
@@DeisFortuna not in vgc. Set to lvl 50 not 100, much harder to get that overflow
There are people who run faster pkmn w Trick Room. I believe I saw this on 2017/18 SnM Gengar Team
I feel like a held item that extends the time trick room is up by two or three turns is enough since it would be way too powerful a strat of it was easy to setup
Plus this would give slow trick room setters with cool abilities and strats like Hatterene and Stakataka a chance to shine a bit more in singles
kinda wish they just buffed Terrain Extender to count trick room and the like.
Psy Brick: A glass like, sturdy yet paradoxically immaterial substance that increases the duration of "Room" moves used by the holder by 2 turns.
Osmium Ore: A deposit of the most dense metal. It increases the duration of Gravity set by the holder by 2 turns.
@@BMVfilms that would be cool since Indeedee-F could be an excellent dual Psychic Terrain and Trick Room setter
You forgot another "Room" move: Wonder Room, which switches all Pokémon's Def and Sp.Def; not a complete waste of a turn, there are some Walls that become much worse Walls overall (Pokémon that cover their lower defensive stat with resistances/immunities to types that are predominantly that type or vies-versa), but overall not a good move. Applying it when you switch in on the other hand might have some niche use for scaring off the noted walls, and it is an Ability that doesn't do nothing (like how abilities such as Keen Eye and Liquid Ooze come up so rarely they may as well say No Ability), but is still a very neutral power.
As noted, which Pokémon get the ability massively alters the calculus of value, let us not forget that there are fully evolved weather-setters in the lower tiers, some even Untiered by Smogon.
One thing which I think might limit the overpoweredness of Auto-Trick Room is that as it gets more prolific teambuilding may shift such that Pokémon that are slow but not useless outside Trick Room might be added to some teams to counter ATR teams, in fact if it gets super common some people might even make a team that is basically an ATR team, but swaps the setter for another Pokémon that likes Trick Room, making a team that is all but guaranteed to beat any ATR.
One other thing that makes Room effects interesting is that applying them when they are already up removes them, this basically never comes up as spending a turn to remove Trick Room (or any of the other Room Effects) is arguably even less useful than putting it up (why spend a turn when you could just wait it out?) but if it is applied automatically I could definitely see mind games and counterplay, such as bringing a setter specifically to remove the effect, in a fashion not dissimilar to how some teams would bring a less used weather setter (often Hail IIRC) just to turn off their opponent's weather.
I like the idea however trickroom is super powerful once the room is up the setup it what makes trick room fair(kinda like weather imo) so I can't say it would be fair because unlike weather's that only affect a few types majorly or just chip opponents, trickroom literally changes the game and kinda rigs it to one side so I can't say with confidence it should be allowed
I would like it in Ubers and AG though.
Stuff like Calyrex Ice and Melmetal stuffing out the fast meta scentric mons of Zacian and Calyrex Shadow would be cool.
Also I have another point towards it being too good for standard play, weather teams require specific types to abuse the weather to its greatest potential. Trick Room can have Melmetal, Alolan Marowak, Crawdaunt, Hatterene, Stakataka, Alolan Exegguttor.
You get my point more varity
Then like the weather abilities, balance it with very narrow distribution. Outside of their legendaries, most of the pokemon who get the weather abilities (or the terrain abilities) usually aren't amazing, but their ability makes them valuable.
Something that could be interesting is an ability that works like desolate land/primordial sea/delta stream where the trick room/magic room/gravity would be active as long as the pokemon is active and leaves when it switches out. Side note: Claydol would prolly fit pretty well with the gravity one (or any of them)
I would advocate Spinda to learn this Trick Room ability. Spinda has below average speed base stats, but not so low to abuse the ability if it’s actually over-centralizing the meta. It would also compete against it’s really good Contrary ability. Also, Spinda would fit thematically because of it’s hilariously clumsy, helpless, confused, and completely unassuming Pokédex entry @u@
Having auto gravity may actually make grass types more valuable defensively, since they resist ground naturally, but would also work really well with grassy terrain, which would also be fantastic to help counter ground spam teams.
Orbeetle should for sure be the guy to get a gravity move. It’s gmax move is gmax gravitas, which already sets gravity. Gravity increases accuracy, and I would love to be able to use flapple with gravity for the accuracy and boosted grav apple.
The biggest troll from gamefreak imo was not makeing room service the trick room extension item
I could see palkia having the gravity ability, dialga having the trick room ability and giratina could have the magic room ability to not be left out
If they added a trick room ability pokemon that would be soooo op in vgc. It's already a strong strat when you have to use a turn to set it up
If a Magic Room/Wonder Room/no Room effect ability was introduced it could massively change VGC just by threatening Trick Room teams into being two-speed. They'd be more interesting than a Trick Room setter tbh.
@@matthewbird1067 You already have mind games like this. Some teams with zero use for trick room bring a trick room setter to counter trick room teams if they're too strong. Having an ability pokemon would make these mind games even more intense
@A Cool YooToobist That's an interesting idea, might be a bit op though. One way you could make it balanced is make it work like choice band/scarf/specs and let you only use one move. At the end of the day it is a rom hack so it doesn't have to be balanced. Important part is just to make it fun!
@A Cool YooToobist The problem is KT would be playing a completely different speed game than the rest of the game. With KT it would be able to out speed almost all choice scarf users. Making it activate every few turns (less often than quick claw) would make it balanced, since it does affect the whole field.
In doubles, this ability would be absolutely insane. For an ability that would be fine for both formats, how about an ability that sets wonder room? Wonder room essentially swaps the special defense and physical defense stats of all Pokemon when wonder room is in effect.
Interesting topic, I must say. Here are my two ideas:
1. Make a signature ability that reverses turn order for your pokemon vs pokemon you are facing. Could be really interesting for singles, as well as doubles.
2. Let pokemon set up the trick room on switch BUT when that pokemon switches out, the trick room ends. Think of it like Desolate Land or Primordial Sea.
Idea number 2 would only make it stronger in doubles and not change much in singles, so that's not what we're looking for
I don't know about that. It'll definitely be stronger in doubles, but in singles, it would also be powerful. Don't underestimate the power of one less turn for setup and possibly freeing one move slot.
It’d be interesting if the ability made it so trick room was setup at the end of the turn still, but it would be automatic as long as the pokemon with the ability was still in, Sort of like flame orb or toxic orb does. This gives your opponent some counterplay and reduces the tempo gain since the Pokémon can’t switch right back out. To me it seems like a much more cautious way to implement something so potentially game warping.
As for pokemon that get the ability, I think it would be interesting on Unknown, Celebi, Dialga, or other pokemon that are known for messing with time or warping reality.
On the topic of unknown, I’d be really interested to see it one day get a schooling esque ability, but that’d admittedly be hard to make a theorymon video on since that’s such a large and potentially ambiguous change.
the trick room ability should go to beheeyem, its alien estitic fits trick room's abnormal nature. ability name: probe calling
good choice of mon, odd choice of name
@@honjon666 I didn't know what to name it so I just came up with something on the spot xD.
Honestly, I feel like Beheeyem could realistically have access to both a TR ability and a gravity ability.
Fitting name because it would anally probe the meta.
I think the ability for Trick Room could be called Distort, and a Pokémon like Beheeyem, whose usage is criminally low, could be a recipient for it. One of the ways to balance it out would be to only give it to Pokémon that cannot abuse it by themselves, so Cresselia getting it for me is a big no-no. As for Gravity, I could instead see the Magnemite line have Sturdy replaced with Grounding, an Ability that would forcibly ground any Steel type Pokémon. All of a sudden, Magnezone is a deadly weapon that can completely crush Corviknight and Skarmory without the need for Magnet Pull gimmickery, but at the cost of it being really weak to Ground moves as well, so it becomes a big tradeoff.
why would magnezone want to hit corviknight with ground type moves when it can just hit it with electric type moves?
also magnet pull isn't a gimmick it's a very viable strategy
but i agree about giving beyehem trick room that would be VERY good for him considering his low speed holds him back
Oranguroo would be perfect for gravity and trick room ability.
Also the I would name the ability No fly zone and Reverse
That would completely break doubles, just lead Torkoal Organgoru and if they don’t have a Flash Fire Pokémon you win the game turn 2
@@AshenDust_ organgoru.
@@prof.reuniclus21 that definitely totally isn’t a typo, it’s because when he’s done with you, you won’t have any organs left
5:21 simple, solrock and lunatone.
As for the name, gravity can be a good name itself.
I actually had my own fakemon with a mega form containing an ability I called tricky, which would bring I trick room upon switch in, I also came up for a tailwind variant I called breezy
shit names
I get home and open youtube to check what the algorithm has suggested for me on my home page. I open every video that interests me in new tabs, yours always included. I sometimes find myself avoiding watching your videos first because I yours are guaranteed to keep me entertained the whole time and I might not even like the others.
My point is that your content is GREAT. I love anything and everything you put out. Keep it up man.
I think the easier and more likely solution than an ability is to give an item that extends the turns to 8. Not only do weathers have this with damp rock, heat rock, smooth rock and icy rock, but it also extends past weather to light clay giving barrier, reflect, and aurora veil extra turns so we already see that game freak is willing to have this mechanic spread.
Even an item extending trick room is dubious since it still makes TR too strong. As instead of auto TR you now have TR lasting the majority of a agme6 and thus invalidating traditional speed tiers and mechanics.
Singles would be worse since TR teams could now just run two TR setters with the item and have 4 overbearing mons that your standard offense or even BO can't handle together.
And yeah screens get an extender but honestly screens deserve a nerf at this point. The length of their duration makes them pretty brainless and unbalanced when light clay is involved.
6:54 "like what would happen if slaking had truant"
So who's gonna tell him?
I think the magic room ability is actually interesting. I feel like having an auto setter for magic room would actually give it way more utility. Magic room gets no usage because you have to take up a moveslot for it but having a way to automatically disable items might actually come in handy. Think of all the Mons that rely on HDBs or certain scarf users that could potentially steam roll you. A Magic room setter might actually work out really well and I think it could potentially make or break a lot of games. Kinda feels like neutralizing gas. Actually has a lot of utility but you wouldn't run gastro acid on something just to temporarily remove an ability
Like the terrains in a way - they didnt get used until there was an autonatic setter and they are quite frequently used
@@turbo8628 exactly
In the pet mod we’re working on we have the ability “terraforming” which is a gravity setting ability. Currently only three Pokémon get it. Beeheeyem, elgyem, and mega-starmie (a custom mon we added).
This would be a lot less overpowered, an item that extends the duration of tailwind and trick room.
Another thing with trick room is that if you use it while its already up it reverses the trick room and makes it normal again, so everyone would have a trick room setter on their team even if they werent a trick room team, just to send it in and turn off the trick room.
A Gravity-setting ability would be really cool for Solrock & Lunatone, and it would be very thematic. They'd both appreciate accuracy boosts on their rock type attacks & Hypnosis.
As for a trick room setter, to keep it balanced in doubles it would have to be on an otherwise garbage pokemon or an NFE. Unown, Natu, Dottler, Psyduck, maybe Hypno? Cosmog? Otherwise if it ended up on like Oranguru or Orbeetle they'd get banned to kingdom come
What if Cosmoem got the Trick Room-setting ability? It could switch in to activate Trick Room and tank some hits, then use Teleport to get a teammate in safely. But since that's all it could do, I'm not sure if it would be of any use, even in the lowest Smogon tiers.
Hypno has too many tricks up his sleeve. He has a lot of statuses with Hypnosis, Taunt, Thunder Wave and Toxic, three setup moves in Calm Mind, Nasty Plot, and worst of all, Belly Drum (he also has Knock Off and Elemental + Drain Punches), and he can set Screens, on top of an 85/70/115 bulk WITH ACCESS TO ALLY SWITCH: he'd be a total nightmare to face in VGC.
The only two fully evolved Psychic (besides Unown, of course) mons i'd allow to get a TR setting ability are Grumpig (which has more special coverage but still weak offense and is slightly more frail and fast than Hypno, making him and his Ally Switch weaker under TR by an extent) and maybe Beheeyem, even if with his huge Special Attack, good coverage, access to Nasty Plot and Expanding Force, and super low Speed, it risks of becoming a fearsome wallbreaker in VGC (he also have Screens and Ally switch too, but at least he's REALLY frail)
I’ve had a Trick Room-setting idea for a Missingno ability for a while now, but another idea I had for it is: what if there was an ability that inverts type effectiveness, or sets a terrain that inverts type effectiveness?
Haven’t had reverse type battles since...ORAS from that 1 trainer that does opposite type battles
Wasnt there also a Wonder Room as well? I think that move or room would be better if it can shut down all items entirely for 5 turns like choices, megas and zstones. Ofcourse, pokemons that had already mega evolved wouldnt revert back but the possibility of shutting it before it happen is a cool strategy in and of itself.
I've had an idea for a Trick Room and other room extending item, with the limitation that it only works if there are less than 3 Pokemon on the field, so 99.9% of the time it would only ever take effect in Singles.
For auto-Gravity, I've thought about an ability, uncreatively named "Gravitate", which would go onto Solrock, Lunatone, Chingling / Chimecho, Orbeetle, and I think Stonjourner. If such an ability would be overpowered, maybe making like the Primals' abilities would be more balanced
An item like that exists in certain fangames. Trick room extender item's named Amplifield rock in Pokemon Reborn
give gravitate to cosmoeom, it's literally a black hole
I always thought there should be a legendary trio in which its members had abilities to summon Trick Room, Magic Room and Wonder Room (but obviously the only viable one would be the Trick Room) It would be nice if the lake trio from Sinnoh had them as hidden abilities
i actually think that's a really good idea
Thematically, hoopa would have trick room. Or, maybe Mr mime. Heck, maybe mime Jr. only.
Gameplay-wise, I think shedinja as the only trick room pokemon would make the most balance sense.
Follow-up questions, on more reasonable versions:
- What if there was an ability that gets you the free Trick Room only when KO'd? Pros: full 5 turns, you can freely use your other setup moves; Cons: once per battle, opponent can dictate when you get it / set up on you (Explosion aside)
- What if that was tied to a consummable held item instead? Pros: You can keep better abilities, available to everyone, opens up recycle/trick options. Cons: single use, takes the spot of an otherwise better item (if held by the sweeper), if it gets meta it can be countered by itself on a slow-but-faster mon that's strong against the most popular choice.
I think an auto setter for wonder room would be very interesting, especially in doubles. All of a sudden your blissey is a defensive tank and weak to special moves?
Gravity doesn't mean you can't miss moves, it increases the accuracy by 5/3x. That makes many moves +100%, but not all moves, e.g. Zap Cannon.
It would be awesome if the ability was in Slowking and its name was "Slowness Kingdom", but sadly Slowking alredy has 3 abilities.
And the gravity effect ability could be on Solrock, Lunatone or Claydol and its name could be "Newtonian Force"
But a good way to prevent it to being a problem in doubles however is making these abilities unique to mythical pokemon, like the trick room ability being exclusive to Celebi and the gravity ability being exclusive to Jirachi or in some event-only pokemon, like the battle bond ability in Greninja
Here’s one: What would the meta game be like if the species clause did not limit variants?
What I mean is obviously you cannot run 6 of the same Pokémon but…what if species clause was not limited by variants? What if you could run both Zygarde 10% and 50% in the same team? Kyurem black and white in the same team? All alolan / Galarian forms alongside their counterparts? The genies and their incarnate forms?
Personally I feel it would negatively impact the meta game by making team building a slog to deal with, but overall on the whole I wouldn’t say it’s an unbearable thing. It would spice up some strategies at least, especially hyper offence related ones.
In OU you could run rotom wash and heat to completely shut down heatran as there is no way it can deal with both of them and not compromise itself against the rest of the meta.
It can either Z (Well power herb now but I'm still in alola) solar beam wash or rock slide/ ancient power heat.
In ubers I could running deoxsys attack and speed on the same team.
I think the species clause was the reason people were running greninja as a lead since this freed up deoxsys to attack in its attack form. Without this limitation unfortunately this means no more greninja in ubers.
Smogon formats hate offense sadly, so if it is a change that buffs it it def wont go thru
Putting this on almost any mon that fits thematically is going to be *broken.* Why? simple, most of them are psychic types. What do most psychic types get? A negative priority switching move, Teleport.
Imaging this on the kanto slow twins. They could use slack off to heal themselves and teleport to bring their absolutley busted teammates in for free and they could spread scald burns and get free future sight chip all game.
This ability is so good, it could bring mons like claydol back into relavence if it got it. Rapid spin, free trick room, stealth rocks, trick shenanigans (the move trick not trick room), and good bulk. Hell, it could bring god damn BEEHEEYEM into relavance if it got this ability.
Another thing I want to point out is giving 4 turns instead of 3 turns to mons that use trick room would be amazing on its own, but it's also the fact that the mon that sets up trick room, if you preserve it right, can set it up like 3 times. Send it in, tank hit, switch out. It could do this probably 2 times if you send it in against the right mon, but even if you send it in a third time on a turn its going to die, trick room will *still* go up, and the incoming mon will get 5 turns of trick room instead of 4. This means the average battle will have trick room up for AT LEAST 13 turns for mons that arent setting it up, for *FREE.* Could you imagine having to find a way to stall out an alolan marowak for 13 turns?? This ability would be absolutley cracked.
Does trick room switch priority?
@@MouldMadeMind No. Priority moves still act the same, except If both mons are using a positive priority move then the slower one goes first in trick room
Earth Bond Wigglytuff with flawless Zap Cannon, Sing, Fire Blast, Blizzard, perfect coverage between Moon Blast and Gravity Hidden Power Ground, and Teleport.
Gravity doesn't make all moves 100% accurate, it just raises the accuracy by 66.7% or so, enough so hypnosis shouldn't miss on regular conditions but Zap cannon has still a 1/6 chance of missing, which still would be enough to make the move amazing.
You know I was just thinking about this the other day. I play a game called Temtem in which a Tem(Pokemon) has an ability that's basically trick room. That tem has always been S tier ever since it was recently nerfed. Temtem has only double battles and no singles at all. So if anything I know from Temtem, it would be one of the most broken things for sure.
Trick room teams were beasts when magearna was still legal.
While it would probably destroy doubles, I think it would be pretty neat for a relatively fast, somewhat bulky support Pokemon to have swap-in Trick Room to act as a double edged sword. It can set up Trick Room for its allies just by swapping in but doesn't abuse trick room by itself except against speedy wallbreakers. I don't think any Pokemon currently exists which would fit that niche particularly well, but if I had to name one it would be Celebi. There is a thematic link between its time travel capabilities in lore, it has a good support setup with okay bulk, and its base 100 speed is fast enough for trick room to be a negative against the type of walls a support Celebi would want to switch into. It would require a lot of testing, but considering the inherent drawbacks and Celebi's poor matchups against wallbreakers who would suffer from a sudden Trick Room I think that would be an interesting way to introduce the effect without creating an incredibly broken monstrosity. As a side benefit Celebi being Mythical means that such an experimental introduction would be less likely to destroy Doubles for a Singles experiment
Abilities that should be prioritized:
* uses gravity on switch-in
* uses tailwind on switch-in
* magic room on switch-in (ideal)
* wonder room on switch-in (ideal)
You get the idea
I feel like trick room would be absolutely broken as an ability. While the idea is cool, it would be nigh uncounterable. Not every game has a trick room setter in it to reverse it, and some teams would just be countered outright by it. Plus it would be very toxic to have a guessing game of both teams having the trick room ability to reverse it, or it would create a game of guessing if it has the trick room ability or not.
I think to balance this, certain common moves should remove trick room, like defog for example.
@@ninjaniknik6136 destroying the move trickroom
Fun to see this dissection since I'm currently part of a team working on a fangame (working title Project Chasm) that aims to rebalance basically every Pokemon in the game focusing exclusively on the PvE side of Pokemon, not competitive. What we did for Girafarig was give it the Ability "Trickster" which sets Trick Room on entry. We haven't been able to test it extensively since it's a more midgame Pokemon and we've only got content through the sixth gym so far, but I'm very interested in if it's broken in a singleplayer environment with both singles and doubles.
I honestly never knew gravity made moves more accurate, the more you know.
I was thinking that maybe something better than an ability that sets up Trick Room would be an Item that extends the duration of Trick Room like the Damp Rock for Rain...
Although it may be a bit OP
I appreciate that you care about theme and aesthetic consistency. So many competitive games people don't care if their equipment or whatever looks like shit as long as it gets a win.
Based on all the comments about how doubles auto-trick room would be broken, why not a Primal/Legendary that keeps Trick Room/Gravity off as long as it's on the field, and then Time/Gravity shifts back to normal whenever it leaves the field? Of course this would likely go to the Primal forms of Dialga and Palkia once they become transferable.
But as I saw with one comment, Smogon's Fidgit and its ability, Persistant, is really cool, and i'd like to see it make its way to the official metagame. Though on that note, to balance things out, we could get a Pokemon with either an Anti-Gravity Ability (Nullifies Ground Moves entirely and makes all Pokemon Float at the cost of less accuracy on moves that have a base miss chance.) Or an Ability that refreshes the field of Rooms/Tailwind/Gravity (But not Hazards) on switch in, similar to Mr. Rime's Screen Cleaner.
I think if gave a pokemon an auto setting trick room ability, you'd need to invent a way to get RID of trick room without waiting it out. Something like how weather can be reset or changed with certain moves or abilities, or how dual screens can be broken by brick break or blown away by defog
So, fun fact.
I tried making a ROMhack that included a Trick Room setting Ability, called Trick Arena, and gave it exclusively to a Psychic-Type I created called Swaplace, that is very much the Dusknoir model; slow, huge defenses, one high attacking stat, pitiful HP.
In testing, everyone suddenly got very familiar with ways to kill Swaplace. U-Turn was everywhere, Pursuit became pretty centralizing, Seismic Toss took advantage of its relatively low base HP. Swaplace users got very good at allocating EVs to make the most of their bulk, used support mons to keep Swaplace healthy at all times (mostly centering on Farewell, an even weaker Fairy-Type Volt Switch that also heals the mon switching in about as much as a Sitrus Berry, making it really solid for tempo), and some even ran attacking sets for Swaplace itself to be the Trick Room abuser in some cases. People even went out of their way to put Crawdaunt on Swaplace teams, given its low Speed and ability to handle most Swaplace checks.
I think thematically a trick room ability would fit on Mr. Mime or the galarian mime line since they are literally mimes and perform tricks.
I’d give it to a total sleeper pick, like Beeheeyem. A mon that’s totally outclassed in all other ways
Just like regigigas and slaking, this would never happen
In Temtem, there's a trait (ability) that does basically the same thing called Deceit Aura. It was so broken that in the latest update, they made it cut the holder's HP in half upon switching-in.
A Gravity ability would probably fit Orbeetle the most because it’s G Max Move is Gmax Gravitas
Having a trick room ability is an interesting concept for sure, however, it will dominate doubles in un-foreseen levels as a team can quickly set up or remove the trick room, which might result in an unhealthy meta as every team needs to run a mon with the trick room ability to either abuse or counter trick room teams itself. If this were to become a thing, hopefully, it's only accessible to mons that are relatively weak and are in desperate need of a buff, like clay doll or the lake trio
I feel like Malamar would be the perfect pokemon to get this ability. It makes sense from a theming perspective since Malamar's whole theme is flipping things on their head, so having an ability that flips the turn order feels appropriate. But also from a balance perspective, since it's typing means you would still have to skillfully maneuver around U-turn to make sure you don't get blown up instantly.
I came up with an ability known as Dimension Distort, which is an auto Trick Room. It’s the signature ability of a Rock/Psychic-type fossil fakemon. It’s definitely gonna carry it to Ubers alone.
In temtem one of the starters actually did get trick room as an ability. It was apparently so good they had to nerf it where it loses a lot of HP every time it activated. Granted temtem is all double battles so it makes sense why it would be broken
One thing to consider is that unlike Rain Dance or Grassy Terrain, using Trick Room after it has already been used, actually ends the Trick Room immediately.
So unless you're using your Trick Room Ability Pokemon *only* to activate Trick Room, you'd have to constantly balance around it deactivating its own Trick Room. Which is a serious consideration since switching is a huge factor in Singles.
Wouldn't really effect Doubles, outside of maybe someone bringing in their own Trick Roomy solely to get rid of others'. It'd still be a freaking broken as hell ability.
would also be cool if there was a terrain extender/damp rock type item for these moves to extend their duration
Maybe something like the weather rocks, that extend the length of trick room as a held item, or maybe an ability that extends trick room when used could be good.
Trick room as an ability is insane. I come from Temtem which, while only double battles, it is exclusive to one mon, with a high base speed, which is frail, has several weaknesses, only last four turn and only active when the mon starts the turn on the field and it was still busted.
Recently they nerfed trick room mons to have half their max hp and it’s finally no longer meta defining.
Gravity switch in would be CRACKED
Ground is one of if not the best offensive type when Gravity is up.
I feel like gravity makes the most sense, as the amount of benefits and the cost balance each other out pretty well. The accuracy boost could have some niche usage, the removal of ground type immunities is pretty good too, but pokemon that sweep with earthquake in doubles would be severely limited in what allies they can have, as the only way to be immune to earthquakes would be through telepathy. Gravity also has a buff that not a lot of people know about, which is that flapple’s signature move grav apple gets 1,5x bp during gravity
Also, the accuracy boost is only 5/3x, it doesn’t make all moves never miss
Having Trick Room abilities, Gravity abilities etc is definitely overpowered since you can control momentum anytime by just switching out and sacking them in case the they run out. The best thing I think there is to do is not make an ability but create an item that increases their turns like the weather stones for their respective weather.
I remember in the pokemon rom hack Insurgence, Mega Reuniclus had a signature ability called speed swap which was auto set trick room
I always thought that, when megas were still a thing, that’d get some mega or primal form of Dialga and Palkia with abilities that auto set trick room and gravity respectively.
It fits thematically but it does seem way more overpowered to auto set trick room rather than protect tho
I think my way for balancing this would have this effect to be attached to held item, which would be used up when it was switched in for the first time. That would force the pokemon to be used like the Azelf lead mentioned in the video
a good way to balance it might be to have the ability activate at the end of the turn, much like how trick room has negative priority. this means that eject button and pivot sacking become unusable strategies for setting up trick room, and it increases the counterplay by threatening a KO. it's auto trick room, so it'll obviously still be broken, but this might make things a little better
In the fangame Pokemon Insurgence, they gave Reuniclus a Mega Evolution. Upon Mega Evolving, it gains the ability Speed Swap. This ability sets up a Trick Room upon activation. However, if the Pokemon appears on the field while there is a Trick Room activated, then the Trick Room will disappear.
A good way to balance this ability is to have it activate at the end of the turn. That way you can't use eject button switch in and you'd have to survive the switch in to set it up.
A few ideas I thought of for some theory crafting:
1. What if there’s an ability like Intimidate that lowers Special Attack?
2. Speaking of Trick Room, what if there was an item like Light Clay (or a buffed light clay) for the Room Moves, Gravity, and / or Terrains?
3. What if there was a new trick room like room called “Neutralizing Room” (reference to Neutralizing Gas), where all abilities would be negated for 5 turns?
Gravity only multiplies accuracy by 5/3, so any move below 60 accuracy can still miss. OHKO moves are still too inaccurate to be viable. A move like Sing still would have a chance to miss, but is much more reliable.
I think it might make more sense if there was an item that set the weather for lack of a better word. Then you don't get to continually set it every time that pokemon comes in
Trick room as ability sounds terrifying the most likely setters are strong tanks that can absorb hits and switch out as soon as they come out and give their abuses more time to tear though your team since you have to deal with it and trying to stop them from resetting trick room also as a pokemon to get it id say Mr mime would be a fitting pokemon to get that move thematically and him being not as bulky would make him alot easier to deal with
An alternative idea would be a held item that extends it to 8 turns, similar to the weather rocks. 8 turns is a fair bit, but naturally you'd give up an item slot for it.
One thing that's worth noting: gravity does NOT affect OHKO moves. OHKO moves ignore all accuracy/evasions buffs (excluding lock-on/mind reader, which bypass accuracy). And since Gravity multiplies accuracy by 5/3, any move that has 60% accuracy or higher is guaranteed to hit barring accuracy drops. This means that there are only 7 moves that can still miss with Gravity; Dark Void, Dynamic Punch, Inferno, Zap Cannon (50% to 83%) and Sing, Supersonic and Grass Whistle (55% to 92%).
Auto Trick Room would be one of the strongest abilities in singles, and THE single best ability in doubles, period. Speed is the most important stat in Pokemon, and a good speed stat alongside either a good attacking stat or a good supporting moveset is more than enough to make some Pokemon viable: Trick Room changes this and now teams would have to deal with near un-killable tanks who also get to move first. I would much rather have an item that extends its duration like the Weather Rocks, Light Clay and Terrain Extender do for weather, screens and terrains.
Maybe a Room Expander that makes "Rooms" last more, and maybe even Gravity. Something that extends the duration of Tailwind would be cool too.
As for Auto Gravity, it would also be insanely OP and I think most people don't realize how much it would be, since the only thing that keeps Ground in check is Flying. Bug resisting Ground is almost not important because a lot relevant bugs have a secondary typing weak to ground anyways (Volcarona, Forretress, Scizor...) so the interaction becomes neutral, and same thing happens with Grass, since a lot of good Grass Pokémon have a secondary typing weak to Ground too, like Ferrothorn, Kartana, Venusaur or Amoongus. Most offensive types have to deal with either a few common mons with x4 resist or immunities (Dragon, Ghost, Fairy, Ice and Fighting are some of the most common offensive types, but there are common Pokémon that are inmune to them or have a x4 resistance) and Ground is no exception to this, but Gravity removes what keeps it in check, which is Flying being inmune to it (there is no viable x4 resist to Ground since Bug/Grass is both a terrible and uncommon typing). Sure, Grassy Terrain also reduces the effectiveness of Ground significantly, but it is a Terrain after all and thus you can override it with your own too. Basically the only way of dealing with Ground spam would be using Grassy Terrain or using the few Bug or Grass mons that actually resist it and don't take neutral damage from it.
The cherry on top definitely is the fact a lot of relevant Flying types have a secondary typing weak to Ground anyways, like Skarmory, Celesteela, Corviknight, Zapdos, Thundurus, Moltres and so on. Also, a few Levitate users benefit greatly from their Ground immunity, like the two best Rotom forms and Bronzong, it is not as prevalent but still worth mentioning. Ground is not balanced with Gravity in mind in the slightest.
Oh, and let's remember, you don't NEED to be a Ground type to spam Ground attacks, since Earthquake is one of the best moves in the game and even without STAB it can hit like a truck.
An interesting idea would be something like slowking’s chilly reception but for trick room, i mean bulky pokemon love a good slow pivot move anyway, but it would also enable a much easier switch to a trick room abuser and also get the full 5 turns of trick room, another thing is that it wouldnt ruin doubles formats (i think, obviously we cant truly know) because it still needs time to set up, but could be very interesting to allow 2 trick room abusers to attempt to use trick room to break down a team
Trick room as an ability is probably insanely powerful, but *if* it did happen its gotta go on beheeyem. maybe it could give it some relevance. A hypothetical gravity ability could make sense for it too. Maybe I just want that fella to get some love and be a bit unique.
One thing which feels kind of weird is, the low prio of trick room means that the user acts probably last. But this still counts as a round for trick room which makes it effectively a four round effect (and not 5). Compared to a weather move in doubles you profit since the weather user is allowed to act. For example sableye uses rain dance with his ability prankster. Sableye acts first and his partner Ludicolo with swift swim immediately benefits and is now the fastest Pokémon on the field. It could use the first turn of rain and still has 4 more rounds. This does not apply with trick room because of its low prio. The first turn of trick room is always a turn of setting up which cannot be used effectively.
There's a Romhack called XG:Next Gen (A romhack of XD gale of darkness) and it gives Slowking an ability called Tricker, which is the Trick Room ability. Funny enough, the romhacker actually had to program in Trick Room into gen 3 (along with fairy type), as it didn't exist.
The turn that you set up trick room actually counts as the first turn of trick room (which doesn't make any sense, because the move trick room literally always goes last), so it effectively only lasts 4 turns. Including the turn to switch out or healing wish, you only ever get 3 turns to use trick room in singles.
Trick room; Aura of Reversion.
Pokemon; Hoopa/Hoopa Unbound (Hidden ability), Claydol (Hidden Ability), Coffagrigus/Runerigus, Slowbro (Replaces Own tempo), Musharna (Replaces Forewarn).
Gravity; Aura of Mass.
Pokemon; Lunatone, Solrock, Copparajah (Replaces heavy metal), Aggron (Replaces Heavy Metal).
Magic Room; Aura of Magic.
Pokemon; Alakazam (Replaces inner focus), Magicarp, Clefable (Replaces Cute charm)
What if there was an eject pack ability on a pokemon with trick room? You could run room service so that when you use trick room, you absorb a hit, like with teleport, then set up trick room and instantly switch out into your sweeper, since the room service lowered your speed. Boom, free trick rooms, and all you have to do is convert an existing item into an ability
Mega Diancie with Earth Bond, Moon Blast and Gravity Earth Power having flawless coverage.
Something that would be a little more balanced, and wouldn't ruin doubles, would be room/weather/terrain abilities that, rather than activating when the mon is sent out, activate the first time it uses a move.
This would enable counterplay with fakeout, taunt, double targeting, etc., and would prevent a strategy like leading with 2 specs/banded swift swimmers, and immediately switching out one for your drizzle mon.
New moves could also work. Like a neutral priority trick room that causes the user to faint. That could be really useful in singles, but could also work as a high risk/reward strategy in doubles. There could be a psychic status move that harshly lowers the targets speed and sets gravity. This also has me thinking about a +1 priority move that clears weather and attempts to set tailwind on both sides of the field. (the tailwind could counter the opponents tailwind, by canceling it out, and potentially giving you 1-3 tailwind turns after theirs wears out)
I think just making role compressive moves for weather and room effects would do the trick. Then you can distribute them to some otherwise outclassed old gen pokemon.
Ever seen The Garbodor's video where he used Belly Drum Choice Band Azumarill on Magic Room? Now imagine this thing (with wish support, of course) while magic room is an ability...