Coming from a Tesla Model S Plaid to an Audi Etron GT ... and I couldn't be happier. It is a smaller car but as long as I can fit my road bike into the car (by folding the rear seats) then I am happy. Yes it has lower range - but I find on my trips from Norway to France that I actually travel faster due to the vast amount of time saved charging (I charge exclusively at the Ionity high speed charging network where 300-350 kW charging is always available - across Europe) - I normally only stop for 13-16 minutes for charging - almost a third of the time spent on my Plaid. The driving comfort at high speed is phenomenal compared to the relatively rustic Tesla experience. And most important - a cruise control that actually works, rather than the Tesla adaptive cruise control which would phantom brake a couple of times every day - that's a scary proposal on german autobahns at 180-200 km per hour. Finally - an interior that looks and feels luxurious compared to the cheap plastic in the Tesla, and an overal design and quality that goes far beyond anything Tesla makes.
@@maxflight777Not sure what’s up with the one you rented, but adaptive cruise control absolutely works at 180-200 km/h. The car itself should go 250 km/h but I’ve never tried that
Yeah and that is the other element that has to be taken into account here. The VAG group, to which AUDI still belong at the end of the day, are not that strong a brand as they used to be. Back when it was all about diesel and gasoline, it was a different story. Yet, this vaunted waterproof "German Engineering" applause on social media has quieted down somewhat in recent years as both the Enyaq, ID3 and ID4 and also the Audis have had no shortage of SW related issues, some of them very, very serious for the safety of the driver. Their launch of EVs was, admitted, still relatively early for a legacy automaker. They were also very half-baked. And while I cannot speak for other countries, Denmark, where I live... it used to be a VW-land. Or Peugeot. Audi and BMW for the affluent. But Tesla has completely kicked in the door. Tesla Y is the most popular car in Denmark 2023 with 13k registered so far, and Peugeot 208 (some of them gas, some of them EVs) at number 2 with 4700. Ford Kuga is 3rd 3300 and Tesla 3 4th at 2300. VW and AUDI sell alot of cars, but it is still mostly gasoline cars... in the EV-realm, Tesla dominates. And that is my drive home. Denmark used to be all about German cars. With some french and Japanese cars thrown in. Now it's not so much anymore. The Chinese brand MG is also doing well at not 600 MG4s registered year-to-date. source: www.bilimp.dk/nyregistreringer/
Let’s not things twisted. I love my 2018 Tesla 3. It drove far better than all the cars in its class. Except 1. The base bottom of the line Audi a4 was a far more enjoyable car to drive in normal day to day driving. Audis also track strait in a line at highway speeds with fantastic steering feel. Like they are on a mission from god. The interiors are absolutely beautiful. Worth 50% more? No.
I don’t like the layout of the tesla. Putting a standard instruments cluster and button based controls on the steering wheel and i think alot more people would buy them. But they’re top of the list already for EV sales so i’m probably a minority
@@iangannon8543 I don’t think you are a minority. Having a fast car that drives fantastic wile being the safest production car money can buy at an affordable price is far more important to most people. The dashboard is way down on the list.
My ‘20 model S LR+ had a 372 mile range when I first got it, after about 5 months and some OTA updates the range increased to 393, then to the current 402. I was blown away that it increased even if only a small amount. The complex battery management software was upgraded.
I recently purchased my second non Tesla EV; a 2023 f150. After 21,000 miles, two "back to the dealer" recalls for software updates and NO over the air updates (I call it my Stupid EV), NO working rational charging system and a UI that is so poor, I know exactly why non Tesla EVs are having a problem. My wife and I recently drove our 2021 S from Athens Ga to Sante Fe, about 1400 miles in just under 25 hours, straight through with 6 charging stops using autopilot. By comparison the first and last road trip we took with the Ford took 15 hours for 512 miles... 8 charging stops. The tesla will do the same trip in 9 hours 2-3 stops, so similar to the same trip driving ICE. I love the f150 for what it is but I would never use it to travel. The idea of buying an audi with a 250 mile range and no updates and no reliable charging network for a lot more than my S because of the leather and stitching of its oldworld interior is a non starter for me. For an EV to have real value it has to function at least as well as ICE for its day to day usefulness and outside of a limited use vehicle like the truck, you have to be able to use it like a car and that includes driving 500 miles easily. So at the end of the day I wouldn't buy one for half the price no mater how pretty they are!
@@phillipbanes5484 You can drive SEVEN-EIGHT HOURS NON-STOP (500mi at 60mph avg- over 6hrs at 75mph), without a food or potty break??!? Dude, that isn't safe nor fun. Do you have diapers? ModelY trip from San Jose to Medford, OR, 493mi, 7hrs driving, +1hr charging total in 3 charge stops.. longest one is 34mins, but at lunch, so assuming you eat during that time, NO lost time! (others are 7-15mins, just enough for potty breaks after 1-1.5hrs.) Only 15% slower to drive EV, assuming no potty/food break multitasking... but only $32.
@@phillipbanes5484 I know zero gas fueling stops.. but ANY stop w/ ICE car, is time that should compare to a charge stop, since you can multitask while charging. 10-15mins go a LOT faster than you think, and bathroom/snack break take all of those minutes, more than you think. In that time, you got 100-150miles added charge, enough for next charger. I've done 8k miles on EV roadtrips, and I can count on one hand how many times I've had to wait for the car to finish charging... most times, car was ready *before* I was. 15% slower is not "badly", especially when most of that is needed for other breaks anyway.. unless you are trying to win some Cannonball non-stop race. If so, go for it... I feel bad for your bladder :) Most folks are on vacation roadtrips, stopping w/ family, not racing a deadline, so... enjoy the ride.
@cgamiga Spin it anyway you like......but it still takes longer in an EV, and what do you do if the chargers are not free? And pls none of the " I have an Tesla , and use their chargers crap. In the real world EV'S are years, if at all, far more problematic than ICE. The sales figures reflect that. Multitasking ? Really?
It's not the EV that's stupid, people don't do their homework on a vehicle first, just jump in and buy, then if it falls short, well you've just lost money generally because of depreciation
@@robertfonovic3551 yes , it does take longer in EV, this is true. But I am trying to point out from my real-world experience, after 5years of roadtripping in EV, and 30years of driving gas cars before that, the charge stops are NOT a very big deal..and if anything, help you feel more refreshed/less fatigued at the end (that, and/or AutoPilot helps that much.) Have *you* tried an EV, especially Tesla? (Yes, non-tesla charging IS problematic and much more stress inducing... and I have VERY rarely encountered a full Tesla charger. You can see on the map if it is near full, I just go to a different more empty one... the nav will auto-reroute you, too.) If you are trying to cannonball run fastest possible, with NO to little stops? Yes, gas is faster than EV. You still have to pee, I hope, that counters some stops as you can do that while charging EV... yes, you can multitask, eg do things you have to do while stopped. But, VERY few people do this kind of "must drive 8hrs w/ NO stops at all" kind of lifestyle... it is a false premise. Most people do not roadtrip that much either. If you DO do that a lot, or eg tow heavy loads long trips? then, don't get an EV, no biggie. Tesla is selling almost 2m cars a year, 50% YoY growth, other EV makers growing similarly, cheaper good Chinese EVs coming too (watch out, US/Germany..)... the sales are limited more by production, and poor EV offerings and bad non-Tesla chargin
I have a 2022 Audi GT that I bought 2 years ago…. The car quality and the drive is the best I have ever driven…. It is an amazing car….. I also love that you don’t see that many on the road….. but the range is horrible… fortunately I don’t drive that much but you are recharging every 120-130 miles…. I agree with you that it doesn’t make sense that you have a large battery with such bad range…. I wish they would optimized the software to increase the range…. I do love the car and will keep it for a long time but they really need to fix the range…. If this car had a 400+ range it would be perfect.
Jim Farley explained that Ford EVs have a problem with over the air updates because all of their onboard systems come from different vendors and each system runs a different firmware. I think the German automakers have the same problem and this increase their software development costs and their in car feature costs. I don't think that any of the German automakers has a plan to address the problem and it will doom them in the future.
The development of the CAN bus was a boon car manufactures in that they could develop an soft integration of multiple components from multiple sources. You have to remember that most car manufactures are really fabricators of pieces from other companies. This process has come back to bite the legacy manufactures since they cannot integrate their electronics in any way - so a software update is very difficult (why it takes 1-2 hours at a dealer) while plugged into a separate computer to manage the update process. The big difference for Tesla is the self-update - the ability of the integrated system to update and reboot itself to a new state. The CAN bus model cannot do this, it requires an external CPU to manage the upgrade process.
Let’s be honest, people have to pay tens of thousands in brand premium to get any German car - especially Audi, Porsche, BMW, and Mercedes. It’s basically just paying hard-earned money in exchange for fluff.
All these car companies got lazy and could’ve been making the vehicle ownership experience much better. I own a Tesla Model Y and I can say it’s the best car I ever owned. And it’s American made 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
I disagree. Nothing drives like a BMW so if you’re a true driver you won’t call it fluff. Teslas are cheaply made with many quality issues. Audi, a VW in a fancy dress, has always been overpriced. I just don’t get it why.
There will always be a few people willing to pay twice as much for half the car, but not all that many car buyers actually have that much disposable money to waste on a name or perceived status of European luxury vehicles.
The solution for the German brands is to let the Chinese design and manufacture the chassis. The brands can then focus on the designing the shell, and marketing the car to those who are still willing to pay much more for "Vorsprung durch Technik"
If they are able to discount those Audi's that much then i have to conclude that they were too expensive from the get-go. German vorsprung durch technik arrogance. Well? It's no longer vorsprung but rather lagging behind. And car buyers have caught on.
In ICE world Audi is a premium car like Mercedes, BMW and Lexus. In EV world Audi is far behind many other automakers who have better technology. No one wants premium price, premium design, premium brand and ... lower end of mass market technology inside. It is like Alfa Romeo/ Jaguar in ICE: beatiful car, premium design, premium price and not reliable comparing to other competitors. Both brands are now part of big companies and they are trying to improve quality.
When doing comparisons in battery size and range please don’t forget also to compare the energy consumption kw/km. Why do the Audis have that high consumption compared with teslas?
Audi is too old in marketing strategy in the faster changing car market. I bought a A6L 45TFSI with huge discount few weeks ago. It is beatiful ICE car, quite good in performace and fuel economical. But its software is just far behind the trend. It is also not pleasent every additional fuction, they will charge you a fortune compare to the new chinese EV always having all high techs in one. I believe if they insist in their old way, they will be fade out
Range and power isn't everything. This is a premium product, with premium quality and service (at least in theory). Of course, it's not a Rolls Royce, but no ugly screen on a stick in the middle of the cockpit, comfortable seats, opening glove compartment with a single gesture instead of searching for it in the menu. Many people will prefer it over a "whoa bro this car is fast!" and don't care about the range, since 200 miles is far enough for them. If I could easily afford E-Tron, I would choose it over the Tesla. For longer trips I would use an airplane. And yes - if similar battery pack gives only 60% of range, this means that it costs much more to drive this Audi. Still doesn't matter for people who can afford it.
Since the Model Y costs around the same as many eTron/ID4 variants we can clearly see that it does matter for people who can afford it. If the glove box issue is so real to you I got some good news: You can configure a Tesla to open the glove box with a single button press since a few months now. It's even a pHySiCaL button, isn't that awesome? 😁
@@Tschacki_Quacki I don't claim, that range/power/cost per km doesn't matter. I'm just saying, that for people who are willing to spend over 100k USD on a car it might not be the highest priority. Some people will get the phone with better cameras and features over one with longer battery life. Some people will pay 10 times more for a classic oak desk over an OSB even if it offers less space 😉 The "glove compartment issue" is just an example - Tesla idea to reduce cost by reducing physical controls is very annoying. Just like new thing about removing turn signal handle, or urge to navigate through menus to change air conditioning settings. Apart from that, Tesla's cockpit just looks bad with that single screen on a stick and many people will choose other brands just because of this. Yes, tesla wins globally - but they won't enter premium market because they are NOT premium 😉
Completely agree with you. Price and lack of updates (in addition to lack of charging infrastructure) stops me from buying one. And I enjoy Audis, I had a Q5 for 5 years before I bought my Model Y.
You seem to be confused about the max driving range of the e-Tron. I am not confused about it at all. Audi is still designing cars for gas car buyers. Big, bulky cars, with lots of wings and scoops and air vents and bold ridges and creases in the body panels and big wheels and big sports car tires. Their designs are super inefficient when it comes to KWh per mile driven. Tesla came at this from a whole different perspective. Tesla was like “what is the most efficient design that can still hit our performance goals?” Audi builds cars to look great. Tesla builds cars to perform great. It also explains why so many people hate the looks of Tesla cars. Every one of them is designed to be super efficient. Tesla gets this. The rest of the EV makers have not yet figured that out. That is why Tesla sell so many more EV’s than any other car maker.
If Sam had his way, every BEV would look like a Tesla, have the efficiency of a Tesla and be as powerful as a Tesla. What a crappy world that would be. The Audi would make a nice commuter into a city that had banned ICE cars. A car that would stand out amongst the ocean of 400 mile range white Tesla's doing 40 miles to work.
@@Radaos Heavy doesn’t make an EV inefficient. Because of physics, heavier just means more electricity used to get up to speed and more kinetic energy when at speed. When you use regenerative braking, you get 90% of that energy back. What you don’t get back is rolling resistance and air drag. So the e-Tron’s inefficiency is soley because of rolling resistance and drag. The model S plaid uses 21” wheels, where the e-Tron uses 20” wheels and they use the same width in front and the e-Tron is 20 mm wider in the back. So the rolling resistance is going to be nearly equal. The model S plaid gets 101 mpge city and 99 mpge highway. The e-Tron gets 81 mpge city and 83 mpge highway. What that tells me on the city side is that Audi’s regenerative braking is not as efficient. And on the highway side, the air drag is not as efficient. Regardless of what Audi claims their drag coefficient is, it is not as good as Tesla’s. The EPA mpg test numbers prove it: the e-Tron GT uses 22% more electricity per mile than a Tesla model S plaid.
I agree, Audi's EV's are good-looking but their price is ridiculous and their range is paltry. They're marketing to the premium market when most people couldn't care less about premium cars, we just want great cars for fair prices. My Model Y has every premium option the most expensive cars have, for a base price, and still better EV specs than nearly every car avail.
@@soupcouncil yep. no way i would buy tesla stock. i dont think tesla will be around in 10 years time. better to buy nvidia or amd stock. i just bought 30k in tech funds
Seems like major German car brands who are running after EV trend haven't really tried the EV strategies that extensively from the beginning. Even if they make it that perfect, does it guarantee that they would better in IoT technology? Imagine Tesla, Rivian, and Lucid, and even BYD -- they're not just EVs, but also implemented with top notch IoT. You could also imagine German cars as old iconic Nokia and Blackberry phones whereas American EVs _(except Ford and GM)_ are iPhones and Android Phones. Look what happened to those Nokia and Blackberry phones. It's the era of IoT besides EVs.
For a lot of buyers, the badge is all that matters. Cars offering better performance, handling, equipment, range, comfort, reliability, and even style, will often be overlooked if the buyer has their heart set on the 4 rings.
And despite what Sam says, none of these cars are 'bad', they all go pretty good. Sam will say in one video "250 miles is plenty, most people will only need to charge once a week". Then in another video, "yeah, 250 miles is not good enough". The big V8 German cars have never been able to compete on MPG compared to smaller engine cars costing half the price. They are different sectors of the huge car market.
As the high end, Audi is a reskinned Porsche Taycan and they have a different engineering approach to do with driving style over range, these Audis will have similar range. Given that the CD coefficient is similar to a model S and weight is probably similar. I can only imagine that the design of the car dictates the range overall.
I test drove the Audi e-tron GT. For a large vehicle, it has a tiny (albeit premium) interior. If you want to take passengers, and a reasonable amount of luggage, the Tesla S is a far better prospect. The Taycan is similar; at best, the cross Turismo can manage 446l of luggage. By comparison, the Tesla S takes 709 litres in the boot, 89 in the frunk, and the rear seats will take three full size adults with room.
Absolutely true. In fact, the Audi e-tron GT is the same width as a Tesla Model S and a little bit longer, yet has a much much smaller interior (I've had three Tesla Model S and I am currently driving an e-tron GT). However there is no doubt that the quality of the interior is way nicer in the e-tron GT. It truly is a premium interior. And it handles far better. If I wanted cargo space I would buy something else.
E-tron and the Taycan are different types of vehicles than the Tesla. The Tesla while fast in a straight line is not built from the ground up to be a 4 door sports car. The E-tron and Taycan are. Especially the Taycan. This is why those cars are slightly smaller on the inside. The equivalent of the Tesla as far as being a room and comfort would be the Porsche Panamera which is way more premium than the Tesla, but the Tesla is faster.
All of the German manufactures have a problem competing on range, power and technology. Ford and GM have a similar problem with their EVs. All of these legacy automakers will likely become relegated to a niche market segment if they cannot overcome their technical short comings. There care still people who will buy the German brands as a "vanity purchase" but that market is shrinking.
They have economies of scale, if you think a niche market company like Tesla or any of the Chinese companies is going to overtake GM, Ford and Volkswagen then you are deluded.
@@Puzzoozooindeed. Tesla seemed to be underway but the company has waited to long. The “traditional” carmakers overtook them and Tesla still sticks to the same models. They cut prices but that’s the last resort I think. And, there is also a pletora of Chinese carmakers also doing their best. And they are not only competing with Volkswagen, but also with Tesla. This would be a great time for Tesla to launch something a bit more “premium”. The Audi Etron Gt in this clip is irrelevant to the discussion. It has only one competitor and that is the Porsche Taycan. Believe me, buyers of this type of car don’t care too much about range or even price. Now that the BMW i5 and Volkswagen id7 are there and the Audi A6 is coming maybe Tesla should upgrade the model S a bit, because now, despite of it’s range, it will fall a bit short.
I have said in the past a porschettaycan with the tesla running gear would be an awesome car. Audi" crap tron " with the tesla tech under the bonnet would also be a great car.
I wish you discussed the more economic Audis. The Q4 ETron and Etron (used) can be purchased with 10-15k discounts, so you can get them in the 50ks~ which isn't bad. Personally I'd rather get my EV9 on reservation for a similar price as it is bigger with better range and will have most of the features Audis "luxury" cars will have.
@@robertfonovic3551 no you’re wrong . Audi n bmw try to wow you with crystal and metal knobs that nobody cares for 🤣. Updates come with every new EV so you not making sense .
People hate Elon for free speech on X but Audi’s CEO got a suspended jail sentence for defrauding customers. I think the Tesla brand is a lot better than Audi’s
All fantastic cars ,but when you are sat charging your Tesla at Exeter services.I was 1 of 2 Tesla's at approximately 20 250 watt chargers. As I sat there watching Audi,BMW, mercedes,VW,Kia,ect arguing over 8 chargers 😂😂😂
Here are the pro and con when buying an Audi EV Pro: Good looking vehicles, high built quality Con: Shitty software, short range, no super charge network, no auto pilot, over price, slower than Tesla on acceleration
Audi doesn’t care about tiny, irrelevant markets like Australia Sam. Australian sum sales numbers don’t even constitute sales in a second tier Chinese megacity. They are overall still up globally in sales, year on year.
Not just Audi - I have a Taycan 4S in the UK (on a business lease) and values of these cars is in absolute free fall! 50% value after the first year and the government delaying the sale of ICE cars until 2035 is only going to make this worse. I read the other day Porsche have 550 brand new Taycan cars available in the UK, ready to buy….today. Compare that to an 18 month waiting list when I bought my car and those figures say it all. That said, I’ve leased mine and the value today, tomorrow or next year is totally irrelevant, it’s a brilliant car!
Until Tesla decided to drop their prices. All manufacturers were selling electric cars at a premium and waiting lists added to the value of the sale. That’s all gone now. In the UK, you can buy electric cars brand-new for under £20,000, which is great news for the driving public..
As long as it's not sluggish i don't care about performance. Currently in a 130bhp peugeot and it cruises nicely on the motorway at 70ish doing 55mpg. VWs problems started when the designed completely different cars to be EVs. Mercedes problems started when they said they'd never discount a car again. BMW as always went conservative and have build their new models to be EVs which can be adapted into ICE. Significantly cheaper R&D.
Audi and many German brands did not get it. Tesla were expensive but most byers were *not* rich, for example I went from a Dacia Duster to a model 3 in 2018, and I have many example around me. Now Teslas are cheaper and even more people can buy some. Audi and others are building electric *premium* cars, but most people just want electric cars, the cheapest EV able to move 5 people on long distances is fine. Furthermore, people are more and more aware of how EVs works, they know that a big battery to compensate a low efficiency is a lose lose scenario (price, weight, handling, charging time, etc.). BTW, Tesla models S and X does not sell well in Europe, for the same reason, but Tesla doesn't mind, the models 3 and Y rules.
Seriously? You ask the average soccer mum what engine is in her car and you might get the answer "Gas or diesel". Start asking questions like how many valves per cylinder or variable valve timing and their eyes will just glaze over. I don't see these people reading up on the latest developments in battery tech and BEV designs. "I'll have the pretty blue one please" seems more likely.
I've had lots of Audi's, but they are just too expensive and not keeping up with Tesla on technology, and for a brand who is know for its technology is a pretty big gap. I'd have a eTron GT, but just too much $ for me, even with the price cuts. I'll have to "settle" for my first gen manual trans R8 while I wait for the eTron price to crater on the used market which given the competition they pretty much have to. a model 3 performance or even the Y makes a lot more sense for a lot more people.
I remember when Audi was a so called “gas station car” literally sold at gas stations back in Europe. They were butt ugly and low quality. Then several decades later it became a higher quality level vehicle but I stopped buying them during the diesel gate. I kept asking about the Etron many years ago but it was only a display car here in the US. Now it missed the ev train
I walk past the main dealer in my city each day and they only put an EV in their showroom for the first time this month. 4 years ago they put Jaguar iPace in there, no idea why. Novelty value I guess. It's clear they are anti EV. Phillip.
These prices are before on roads. Telsa order fee / delivery about $1400. Audi charge $6000-$7000 Kidding themselves with poor technology and terrible inefficiency. Telsa 3 RWD around 13kw and 3P 16.5kw per 100kms yet VAG is about 18-20kw. Amazing how Telsa have gotten super awesome efficiency when other EVs can’t match. Even an IONIQ is about 18.5kw.
As soon as you see a lot of brake dust deposits on the rim at the front wheels, indicates inefficiency EV. (Less range with the same size of battery pack) Burning a lot of energy out; compares to US EVs with much better software algorithm bringing back the energy during slow down. (No need to do any range test)
Porsche and therefore Aldi took the view that they would favour driving over efficiency and so the car design means you have to use the brakes. I don’t agree with it but clearly some people do.
@@sdprycewhat figures? Stop lying. I drive a BMW i4 M50 and it’s efficient given its weight and speed. Everyone doesn’t have to drive a Tesla for it to make sense. I didn’t even consider a M3P when buying and I have zero regrets. The big reason why Audi is coming up short is because they are priced similarly to their big bro, Porsche, which is a much bigger brand in every way.
In Europe most of these EV's are leased by businesses, and not bought by regular customers. These "fleet sales" very much depend on the sales price and governement grants. If they are above a certain price point there is no grant. And let's be honest: how many regular customers can afford a 100K+ car?
You’re somewhat missing the point comparing all Audi with others on paper. Nothing turns heads like an etron GT. Even a Lucid is just bland looking. Audi has a brand cachet people are willing to pay for, even if those product refresh cycles can feel painfully slow. The etron GT is simply a unique product. There is nothing else out there in that category other than the Taycan. And of course it’ll receive a decent refresh in the no too distant future. I just bought a Q8 etron fully loaded and it’s miles more refined and well put together than a Tesla and some of the others. I’m willing to look past some of its deficiencies.
Audi is in another world, far from needs of a mass market. Since they introduced the single frame front 20 years ago, they look scary and aggressive to me!
Okay, then don't calculate how many thousand dollars you could save every year by swapping it to an electric car that is much quicker with instant torque and makes your Audi look and feel old - don't say I didn't warn you!
@@geoffhaylock6848That is true. Especially seems that 'Tesla people' will judge cars purely based numbers. Quality, how it looks, how it feels, how it behaves etc. seems to be forgotten. I would understand that if I would would be still a kid and having car playing cards where 'best' number wins.
Audi looks are probably the best in the world, but as you say the specs are no where near what they need to be. Even the e-tron SUV's cannot compete with Model Y on any parameter I can think of, other than looks.
Why would you not buy a product that does what you want it to do and looks super cool? I don't see people buying Audi's because they have best in the world MPG? If I needed a car to drive 100 miles a day that I could charge at home over night, then I'm going to buy the one that does that and I like the look and the feel of. Audi make some nice looking cars.
$125k for a car after discount and we are discussing why its not selling. Sell a model people can afford. How many suckers are there to buy a 100k car.
There are two issues. The custom of paying a premium for a more tight German car no longer applies to EVs. All EVs are pretty good and come with extras. This is a new era of car manufacture , sale and branding . Loyalty is out the window especially for late comers . Secondly , the fatal flaw for all current EVs is still range . Let’s not pretend it isn’t . The first wave of EVs must be sold at half price because they need to make way for the 1000 km range vehicles we all know are coming .
Those 1000km vehicles won't come for a looong time and if some release, they will have giga premium pricing. The biggest issue with EVs is not range, it's charging infrastructure. It makes no sense for most people to buy and carry a big battery around that you only need so few times. I have a Long Range Model 3 and my next car will definitely not have as much range because I realized that I almost never need it and the charging infrastructure is fine anyways. A few hours of charging over the lifetime of a car, do not justify thousands of dollars extra.
Range is not a problem and soon the price is neither, remember you can fill it up at home or at your work place. On road trips most EVs charge pretty fast, just plug it in and take a break every 2-3 hours, especially if it's a Tesla
@@casperhansen826 As more people move to BEV's, more of the long range trips, currently done by ICE, will be BEV's. Do you see the infrastructure for charging keeping pace? Are we in bit of a sweet spot at this particular time?
It is very difficult to match Teslas 400 mile range in the real world. You need to be doing stop and go driving at under 60 mph to get close. The Audi can easily exceed its 250 mile range in normal highway driving. Still drive the Tesla S the same speed as the Audi it can still easily top 340 miles of range.
Did Audi ever fix their EV software so it no longer reminds the driver the EV needs an oil change? Some guy posted a photo of that msg about 3 yrs ago, hilarious. Wonder where that software came from, lol.
Hi Sam, I'm forced to ask one crucial question. Will countries, states, cities, etc be able to keep up in meeting the demand for electricity to power the ever-growing number of EVs? Currently in California, there are already all sorts of restrictions on when and where one can charge your car! Where is this going? What planning is being done to provide more power into the future? They are now even planning to convert trains to battery electrical power, which will use up huge amounts of power. The trucking fleets might follow. Realistically, can large scale power generation keep pace? I'd value your opinion!
It was a single incident in the beginning of september last year, it is long past, there was a world wide energy crisis, here in Europe the price for one kWh was more than a dollar. The solution to that kind of problem is to increase electricity price during peak hour
No one seems to be answering this question. I get told "the grid can handle it". But we burn so much diesel and gasoline for out own transport where is all that energy going to come from? If you WFH and live somewhere like Cali, having your own solar would be free motoring. Other places in the world not so lucky. ICE is only 33%? efficient, so it's only a third of the diesel and gasoline that needs replacing with electric. John Cadogan did a video strictly based on Australian numbers. It is going to be a while before Australia get's enough electricity to move to EV's if John is correct.
@@geoffhaylock6848 similar in UK. In UK the complicating factor is that quite a large % of houses have no off-street parking, so owners have no way of charging at home, so they will have to use public chargers, which will soon be inundated, and in the near future very inconvenient with long queues.
@@dennisleighton2812 Agree, we seem to be at a sweet spot for BEV owners. But the issue is not something that cannot be solved. This issue is likely to be in cities where driving long distances is not the daily task of the car. So not likely you need to charge more than once or twice a week. Maybe all that money spent on HS2 would have been better put towards the charging infrastructure?
@@geoffhaylock6848 UK is relatively small, so range isn't as big a deal as it is in US. The difficulty here in UK is more the convenient access to a charger. It's already starting to happen. As more and more people buy EVs (and its accelerating!) this will get worse. In US petrol service stations are being bought out and replaced by EV parks! Hundreds of them! Currently in US there are already more EV charging points than fuel pumps! That's a fact! UK is FAR from that level. Europe is not any better. It needs a mind set change, and the more conservative Europeans are lagging behind somewhat.
In a year or two range won't matter and can not be a selling factor. Batteries will be cheaper and more improved. Good car quality will be mainstream. What is left then? Brands.
VW group EVs in a word... INEFFICIENT. Also, VW group has their head in the sand about charging. Why would I buy an Audi, Porsche, or even VW in North America for less performance, less range and less options for charging? As much as I like their cars, I won't buy one.
These days when I see a high end Porsche Audi or vw I’m never impressed as I ride in my tesla model y. Model y is so futuristic and software performance and feature is so ahead of the competitors I always feel like other brands especially ice vehicles are pigs with makeup on.
10000% agree! Elon has single-handedly not only beat all these car companies but is forcing them to lower their prices and is forcing them to make a better product or die.
I live in Canada and I like the Audi Q8 E-Tron, but would not buy it, or any other CCS car, here in North America at the moment as the CCS DC Fast Charging network here is a disaster. Most major car manufacturers have now cut deals with Tesla to have access to their Supercharger network for fast charging, but VW/Porsche/Audi and BMW have yet to announce that they are joining the majority on other major brands. Until they decide to do that, they are dead in the water in the North American market. Nobody that knows what they are talking about is going to spend close to $100,000, or more, for a car that they cannot confidently drive long distance without fear of being stranded. I am not saying that you could not get around, but it is going to be stressful and a giant pain in the ass. Why would I pay premium prices for that? This CCS/NACS issue is strictly a North American one, but that is a pretty big market.
@@robertfonovic3551 I have no problem with the charging times on CCS chargers that are working properly. The problem is reliably finding a CCS charger that is working. The Tesla Supercharger stations have 8-20 stalls, all of which work properly about 99% of the time. The CCS charging stations have 1-4 stalls, half of which are in good working order if you are very, very lucky. Often none are working properly. If you are on a long distance trip, you cannot run down to maybe 10% state of charge and be confident that when you roll in for a charge that the CCS station is going to work. If it doesn't, hopefully you have enough charge left to find another station or even a Level 2 charger so that you won't be stranded. That produces range anxiety and is completely unacceptable! I currently travel almost anywhere in my Tesla with zero worries about charging. I know all the time where all the Superchargers are and that they are all working. I am looking for a high-end non-Tesla vehicle that is able to charge on the Tesla Supercharging network.
Any news on discounting the Q8? I am not paying $80K+ for a car with a 200 mile range. I am current looking at 2019 etron SUV with very low miles but dealers are suborning looking in the $40K price tag. For a 4-5 yr old car? Really? I am hoping as the year draws to an end, and with all the bad news coming out from Cox Automotive and the like I can get a used 2019 Q etron Prestige with less than 20K miles for $30K US. My strategy is to buy used now a cheap price and hold on to it for a few years until Audi gets its range up. As far as I am concerned I am in the driver's seat because I don't need financing. I can hold out.
350 Kwh charging rate. It is never linear. Typically the manufacturer will throttle the charging rate the higher the State of Charge (SOC). At 20% SOC? You may get close to the speed the auto maker promises. But at 70% SOC? Rate drops. 80%? Drops again. 90% Drops even more. Maybe they should quote "Our cars charge at 250 Kwh at 50% SOC" * and at 50 kwh at 85% SOC. Just tell people.
Fact Check: In the UK the waiting list for the e Tron GT is 5-6 months, the Q4 e Tron 2024 model year has a 4-5 month waiting list and the max discount you can get is 8% I know because I went to two Audi dealers on Friday & Saturday last week.
The UK might have a different pricing structure due to right hand drive. I would assume Audi only produces right hand drive models during certain months of the year. (Hence the long wait time.) If they had 4-5 month long wait times, they wouldn’t be cutting the price by $20K.
Audi makes luxury sport automobiles. Spend some time living in them and then compare them to Tesla. A modded WRX will outperform a 911, but you wouldn't want to spend all day in it. There is something to be said for fit and finish, vehicle dynamics, and quiet cabin. That is why people would choose the Audi. That, and they can live with the range. The question might not be why doesn't Audi buy Tesla drivetrain and software. Maybe it's why won't Tesla sell it to them? I don't know what negotiation has happened between them.
What data is this based on? Everything I can find on the internet suggests an exceptional sales year for Audi in 2023, with huge growth in EV sales and in particular the Q4 etron growing over 100%. They’re selling more cars than ever, and more EV’s than ever. Had to classify it as a ‘problem’ by any measure.
I’ll buy a EV once the range goes up to 600 miles, Charging gets close to the speed of filling a tank, and the big one better cold climate use. Here in the north it’s cold for 6 months out of the year. And I don’t have a heated garage or parking at work.
Over the air updates for Legacy car makers is really so they can fix bugs, nothing else. They simply aren't invested in developing and improving vehicles that they've already sold and won't get more money from if they give away free updates. And that highlights the completely different mindset of those compared to Tesla, who want the customer to benefit from all the latest improvements and remain loyal to the brand. Look at the disaster that VW has presided over by not even fixing bugs over the air, letting customers seethe and fall out of love with the brand.
A bit like Ford lightning, Jim Farley wasn't impressed yet it went to full development and sales before any of this was said, that speaks volumes about a company
Totally agree! Audi is waiting for the PPE and Cariad Software but honestly it should come earlier. Nevertheless the PPE and for example the A6 e-tron will be a better car than the i5. But as I sayed.. its late. And I am really not sure if the PPE will be cost-efficient enough for mid size cars like the A4.
You for got to mention that Lucid has a bigger battery, approx 112kw battery, hence the bigger range.but the key is the reliability Audi is way more reliable than lucid. I manage a fleet of 30 Lucids and I am not impressed with their reliability and dealer network
@@Beastw1ck good point about infrastructure. I'm in Australia and were even further behind the US on charging rollout. As I do the occasional long trip up the country I'll wait a while.
@@robertfonovic3551 with the pandemic I reduced down to 3 cars. S5 sportback, S4 b8 and 911s cab 991 type. A battery car like a Tesla would likely give 40 to 50% range at best as it really has to be driven at 50 to 60mph only. In testing a 10mph increase lowered the range by 25%.
Audi e-tron GT they are an excellent used EV you can get the GT for under $60,000 in the US and the Audi eTron 55 prestige you can get for under $38,000 they charge from 30% to 90% in 20 minutes and Audi e-tron 55 will tow up to 4,000 lb I tow every day with mine and it is excellent
I'll get an EV when I can get +400km (250 miles) range for about $30K. Here in Sweden the BYD Atto 3 is like $50K. And the basic Tesla M3 is about the same. I was interested in the tiny Renault Zoe until I saw the zero star euro ncap safety test result. 😬 Peugeot e-208 and e-2008 has extremely bad cold weather range.
I think what matters now on electric cars are power, charge, range and software. In this new segment, it appears to be that looks and brand name means less every day. Now we have more information available, so we are able to choose based on specs. German automakers make excellent ICE luxury vehicles, but compared to similar priced EVs, they are way far behind. Car industry is the last adopting software related features, like we see on every other technological product. Cheers!
Audi ownership is a clique area, where brand-loyalty is very strong. Please don't discourage potential buyers, as civilised drivers rely on the trademark 4 rings to spot the ill-mannered arrogant road-hogs and take suitably defensive driving measures. (Heaven preserve us from Audi drivers that camouflage themselves in any other make of car)
Problem of these legacy premium EVs is the cost of their maintenance cost. With Tesla’s lead in massively reducing the service cost of EVs, the business model these companies use to sustain their dealership network just won’t work any longer. Just BS to pay so much for maintenance of these European cars.
No Vorsprung durch Teknik left to offer, as the Teknik has moved from the engine and transmission technology in which Audi excel to the software and battery technology. Meanwhile, while comparing prices across borders, please ensure you are comparing prices on the road in reach jurisdiction.
Generally speaking German automakers are far behind Tesla and some products from China. They'll be in big troubles in a decade or even ealier. People want to buy EVs and hybrids and VAG lost 5% of its sales in one year. This trend will be continued in 2023, 2024, 2025. European legacy automakers are not prepared to switch into EVs before 2025. It gives 20 months for new competitors to gain market share.
@@marianbiznesu1899Biggest challenge for legacy makers is the cost structure. Tesla is not making great cars (while they have partly very good tech and stuff) but they are cheap cars to make and buy.
This is not the time to buy an ev anymore. Its all old tech once you get it delivered. If you want an ev just get a cheap one, like a base model 3 cant go wrong with that.
You keep referring to the EPA RATED range, as if it were the actual range of the vehicle. Audis and many other German manufacturers under rate the range of their vehicles well tesla over rates based on the testing cycles. The top level Audis often exceed the rated range by 50+ miles in real world tastic.
Audi should have been ashamed of that badge swapped ID.4 they made - drum brakes on a modern Audi. I had my hopes on an EV TT until it was revealed Audi was going to make it a four door CUV
Drum breaks are naturally not great for performance vehicles, but not that bad for EVs. Tesla breaks get bad much more often than normal cars because of use of regen (but basically same issue for all EVs ... also Tesla seem to have more issues than others ... maybe one of the reasons why they are cheap...)
First of all: I don't buy from crooks and con men. Secondly, the car is WAY overpriced for what it delivers. Lucid and Lotus are really exclusive and can therefore ask for a higher price, but Audi? Audi is a bread and butter brand here in Germany, and nowhere near as exclusive as the aforementioned brands. Thirdly, Audi dealers and drivers in Germany have a very justified reputation of being arrogant and very unfriendly. In fact, I tried to buy an Audi three times, at three different dealers. In all cases, we stood around in the showroom for half an hour. Nobody approached us, nobody offered us a coffee or a water, but all the sales people were smoking and chatting merrily in a glass walled office nearby. I don't spend in excess of 70,000 € in an establishment where I get treated like this.
@@robertfonovic3551 I did, and I even had my fly closed! Also, I had my yearly shave and haircut before, unlike most Republicans and evangelical christians...
i can't understand why every carmaker makes cars that almost nobody can afford. with 300 and more HP when most people can't drive fast in their countries. It doesn't matter if you stop in 4 or 5 or 6 sec. for the next traffic light but it matters if you have tens of thousands in your pocket. Porsche 911 in the late 90ies had 286HP. Do you think anybody needs more ??? A lot of people need a car under 30k or better under 25k with space for family and stuff.
As for Porsche Taycan, the 2025 is even faster and has longer range than pre refresh! They are also more expensive. Porsche has more brand cache than Audi and can demand these type of prices! Similar to R8 vs Urus. because the E-tron is built on the same platform, it doesn’t have the brand pull to demand the price! I don’t care how good it looks! The Taycan has had depreciation problems, but that’s a lot of EV’s lately. They are still selling and getting great reviews. For the whole Tesla argument, while speedy, Tesla is not a luxury brand period. It was simply the first mass produced electric vehicles. With that, the brand seemed premium for a while. The Model 3 and Y has cheapened the brand to something more in line of a volume brand like Nissan or Honda. They don’t really compete with the Mercedes, BMW, etc. one may say sales don’t reflect that. Well most German EV’s right now serve the high end market as far as price. There is no model 3 or Y equivalent. It’s a price thing!
2022 was the first model year for the Audi e-tron GT. 2012 (?) was the first model year for the Tesla Model S. The Tesla Model S received its first facelift after 4 years I believe.
@@necessity1 The e-tron GT is definitely a niche car, not designed for the masses. It is a beautiful car that handles brilliantly and charges superfast and has an exquisite interior and a very luxurious feel. In short - it's an excellent luxurious Grand Tourer - hence the name, GT. Driving long distances with this car (certainly in Europe with the reliable Ionity 350 kW charging network) is an absolute pleasure. However (as has been pointed out) it is also lacking in cargo space, it is not a good family car, it is poorly suited as a people carrier, it has shorter range than less expensive cars. I love it. But my needs are not the same as the needs of a soccer mom. If range, low cost and cargo space is all that matters then this car is not for you.
Finally someone who understands this car. This car stirs the emotions and driving it is truly special. I couldn’t care less about Model S Plaid acceleration or its range. There is a more discerning market the etron GT and Taycan are aimed at and they are not cross shopping with Tesla. That I’m sure.
Coming from a Tesla Model S Plaid to an Audi Etron GT ... and I couldn't be happier. It is a smaller car but as long as I can fit my road bike into the car (by folding the rear seats) then I am happy. Yes it has lower range - but I find on my trips from Norway to France that I actually travel faster due to the vast amount of time saved charging (I charge exclusively at the Ionity high speed charging network where 300-350 kW charging is always available - across Europe) - I normally only stop for 13-16 minutes for charging - almost a third of the time spent on my Plaid. The driving comfort at high speed is phenomenal compared to the relatively rustic Tesla experience. And most important - a cruise control that actually works, rather than the Tesla adaptive cruise control which would phantom brake a couple of times every day - that's a scary proposal on german autobahns at 180-200 km per hour. Finally - an interior that looks and feels luxurious compared to the cheap plastic in the Tesla, and an overal design and quality that goes far beyond anything Tesla makes.
Agreed!
You lie if you claim the Audi a/p works at 200kph… The one I rented wouldn’t support high speeds
@@maxflight777Not sure what’s up with the one you rented, but adaptive cruise control absolutely works at 180-200 km/h. The car itself should go 250 km/h but I’ve never tried that
Well said & agreed! I just leased an Etron GT & couldn’t be happier plus no disrespect to Tesla but their build quality is poor.
@@maxflight777 configurable item.
being overpriced is a challenge for most producers, no matter how "strong" the Brand is.
Yeah and that is the other element that has to be taken into account here. The VAG group, to which AUDI still belong at the end of the day, are not that strong a brand as they used to be. Back when it was all about diesel and gasoline, it was a different story. Yet, this vaunted waterproof "German Engineering" applause on social media has quieted down somewhat in recent years as both the Enyaq, ID3 and ID4 and also the Audis have had no shortage of SW related issues, some of them very, very serious for the safety of the driver.
Their launch of EVs was, admitted, still relatively early for a legacy automaker. They were also very half-baked. And while I cannot speak for other countries, Denmark, where I live... it used to be a VW-land. Or Peugeot. Audi and BMW for the affluent. But Tesla has completely kicked in the door. Tesla Y is the most popular car in Denmark 2023 with 13k registered so far, and Peugeot 208 (some of them gas, some of them EVs) at number 2 with 4700. Ford Kuga is 3rd 3300 and Tesla 3 4th at 2300.
VW and AUDI sell alot of cars, but it is still mostly gasoline cars... in the EV-realm, Tesla dominates.
And that is my drive home. Denmark used to be all about German cars. With some french and Japanese cars thrown in. Now it's not so much anymore. The Chinese brand MG is also doing well at not 600 MG4s registered year-to-date. source: www.bilimp.dk/nyregistreringer/
@@TheLordexiliusDenmark is irrelevant.
Let’s not things twisted. I love my 2018 Tesla 3. It drove far better than all the cars in its class. Except 1. The base bottom of the line Audi a4 was a far more enjoyable car to drive in normal day to day driving. Audis also track strait in a line at highway speeds with fantastic steering feel. Like they are on a mission from god. The interiors are absolutely beautiful.
Worth 50% more? No.
I don’t like the layout of the tesla. Putting a standard instruments cluster and button based controls on the steering wheel and i think alot more people would buy them.
But they’re top of the list already for EV sales so i’m probably a minority
@@iangannon8543 I don’t think you are a minority. Having a fast car that drives fantastic wile being the safest production car money can buy at an affordable price is far more important to most people. The dashboard is way down on the list.
My ‘20 model S LR+ had a 372 mile range when I first got it, after about 5 months and some OTA updates the range increased to 393, then to the current 402. I was blown away that it increased even if only a small amount. The complex battery management software was upgraded.
you got the mile range on the odometer or just the reading. I dont think so. 1% of battery you may get 2miles to 2.3 mile maximum.
Of Course this is Real more like a minor reporting glitch.
I recently purchased my second non Tesla EV; a 2023 f150. After 21,000 miles, two "back to the dealer" recalls for software updates and NO over the air updates (I call it my Stupid EV), NO working rational charging system and a UI that is so poor, I know exactly why non Tesla EVs are having a problem. My wife and I recently drove our 2021 S from Athens Ga to Sante Fe, about 1400 miles in just under 25 hours, straight through with 6 charging stops using autopilot. By comparison the first and last road trip we took with the Ford took 15 hours for 512 miles... 8 charging stops. The tesla will do the same trip in 9 hours 2-3 stops, so similar to the same trip driving ICE.
I love the f150 for what it is but I would never use it to travel. The idea of buying an audi with a 250 mile range and no updates and no reliable charging network for a lot more than my S because of the leather and stitching of its oldworld interior is a non starter for me. For an EV to have real value it has to function at least as well as ICE for its day to day usefulness and outside of a limited use vehicle like the truck, you have to be able to use it like a car and that includes driving 500 miles easily. So at the end of the day I wouldn't buy one for half the price no mater how pretty they are!
@@phillipbanes5484 You can drive SEVEN-EIGHT HOURS NON-STOP (500mi at 60mph avg- over 6hrs at 75mph), without a food or potty break??!? Dude, that isn't safe nor fun. Do you have diapers?
ModelY trip from San Jose to Medford, OR, 493mi, 7hrs driving, +1hr charging total in 3 charge stops.. longest one is 34mins, but at lunch, so assuming you eat during that time, NO lost time! (others are 7-15mins, just enough for potty breaks after 1-1.5hrs.)
Only 15% slower to drive EV, assuming no potty/food break multitasking... but only $32.
@@phillipbanes5484 I know zero gas fueling stops.. but ANY stop w/ ICE car, is time that should compare to a charge stop, since you can multitask while charging.
10-15mins go a LOT faster than you think, and bathroom/snack break take all of those minutes, more than you think. In that time, you got 100-150miles added charge, enough for next charger.
I've done 8k miles on EV roadtrips, and I can count on one hand how many times I've had to wait for the car to finish charging... most times, car was ready *before* I was.
15% slower is not "badly", especially when most of that is needed for other breaks anyway.. unless you are trying to win some Cannonball non-stop race. If so, go for it... I feel bad for your bladder :)
Most folks are on vacation roadtrips, stopping w/ family, not racing a deadline, so... enjoy the ride.
@cgamiga Spin it anyway you like......but it still takes longer in an EV, and what do you do if the chargers are not free? And pls none of the " I have an Tesla , and use their chargers crap. In the real world EV'S are years, if at all, far more problematic than ICE. The sales figures reflect that. Multitasking ? Really?
It's not the EV that's stupid, people don't do their homework on a vehicle first, just jump in and buy, then if it falls short, well you've just lost money generally because of depreciation
@@robertfonovic3551 yes , it does take longer in EV, this is true. But I am trying to point out from my real-world experience, after 5years of roadtripping in EV, and 30years of driving gas cars before that, the charge stops are NOT a very big deal..and if anything, help you feel more refreshed/less fatigued at the end (that, and/or AutoPilot helps that much.) Have *you* tried an EV, especially Tesla? (Yes, non-tesla charging IS problematic and much more stress inducing... and I have VERY rarely encountered a full Tesla charger. You can see on the map if it is near full, I just go to a different more empty one... the nav will auto-reroute you, too.)
If you are trying to cannonball run fastest possible, with NO to little stops? Yes, gas is faster than EV. You still have to pee, I hope, that counters some stops as you can do that while charging EV... yes, you can multitask, eg do things you have to do while stopped.
But, VERY few people do this kind of "must drive 8hrs w/ NO stops at all" kind of lifestyle... it is a false premise. Most people do not roadtrip that much either.
If you DO do that a lot, or eg tow heavy loads long trips? then, don't get an EV, no biggie.
Tesla is selling almost 2m cars a year, 50% YoY growth, other EV makers growing similarly, cheaper good Chinese EVs coming too (watch out, US/Germany..)... the sales are limited more by production, and poor EV offerings and bad non-Tesla chargin
I have a 2022 Audi GT that I bought 2 years ago…. The car quality and the drive is the best I have ever driven…. It is an amazing car….. I also love that you don’t see that many on the road….. but the range is horrible… fortunately I don’t drive that much but you are recharging every 120-130 miles…. I agree with you that it doesn’t make sense that you have a large battery with such bad range…. I wish they would optimized the software to increase the range…. I do love the car and will keep it for a long time but they really need to fix the range…. If this car had a 400+ range it would be perfect.
People have no money. You could slash them to 20,000 and people still won't buy.
If you live in Afghanistan.
❤California 💰
Jim Farley explained that Ford EVs have a problem with over the air updates because all of their onboard systems come from different vendors and each system runs a different firmware. I think the German automakers have the same problem and this increase their software development costs and their in car feature costs. I don't think that any of the German automakers has a plan to address the problem and it will doom them in the future.
The development of the CAN bus was a boon car manufactures in that they could develop an soft integration of multiple components from multiple sources. You have to remember that most car manufactures are really fabricators of pieces from other companies. This process has come back to bite the legacy manufactures since they cannot integrate their electronics in any way - so a software update is very difficult (why it takes 1-2 hours at a dealer) while plugged into a separate computer to manage the update process. The big difference for Tesla is the self-update - the ability of the integrated system to update and reboot itself to a new state. The CAN bus model cannot do this, it requires an external CPU to manage the upgrade process.
Everything that you stated, probably happened in your dreams
Let’s be honest, people have to pay tens of thousands in brand premium to get any German car - especially Audi, Porsche, BMW, and Mercedes. It’s basically just paying hard-earned money in exchange for fluff.
Even more if taken into account that they've been manufacturing them using energy on sale price for many years
All these car companies got lazy and could’ve been making the vehicle ownership experience much better. I own a Tesla Model Y and I can say it’s the best car I ever owned. And it’s American made 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
They are super unreliable too VW is the worst
@@joequinalcouldn’t agree more
I disagree. Nothing drives like a BMW so if you’re a true driver you won’t call it fluff. Teslas are cheaply made with many quality issues. Audi, a VW in a fancy dress, has always been overpriced. I just don’t get it why.
There will always be a few people willing to pay twice as much for half the car, but not all that many car buyers actually have that much disposable money to waste on a name or perceived status of European luxury vehicles.
The solution for the German brands is to let the Chinese design and manufacture the chassis. The brands can then focus on the designing the shell, and marketing the car to those who are still willing to pay much more for "Vorsprung durch Technik"
"Vorsprung durch Technik" is that German for "Emission rules are for suckers". Looking at you VAG
This is what the Volvo have done, and to an extent, Jaguar Land Rover. Outsource the tricky bits and nail your badge to the bonnet.
If they are able to discount those Audi's that much then i have to conclude that they were too expensive from the get-go. German vorsprung durch technik arrogance.
Well? It's no longer vorsprung but rather lagging behind. And car buyers have caught on.
In ICE world Audi is a premium car like Mercedes, BMW and Lexus. In EV world Audi is far behind many other automakers who have better technology. No one wants premium price, premium design, premium brand and ... lower end of mass market technology inside. It is like Alfa Romeo/ Jaguar in ICE: beatiful car, premium design, premium price and not reliable comparing to other competitors. Both brands are now part of big companies and they are trying to improve quality.
When doing comparisons in battery size and range please don’t forget also to compare the energy consumption kw/km. Why do the Audis have that high consumption compared with teslas?
Audi is too old in marketing strategy in the faster changing car market. I bought a A6L 45TFSI with huge discount few weeks ago. It is beatiful ICE car, quite good in performace and fuel economical. But its software is just far behind the trend. It is also not pleasent every additional fuction, they will charge you a fortune compare to the new chinese EV always having all high techs in one. I believe if they insist in their old way, they will be fade out
Range and power isn't everything. This is a premium product, with premium quality and service (at least in theory). Of course, it's not a Rolls Royce, but no ugly screen on a stick in the middle of the cockpit, comfortable seats, opening glove compartment with a single gesture instead of searching for it in the menu. Many people will prefer it over a "whoa bro this car is fast!" and don't care about the range, since 200 miles is far enough for them.
If I could easily afford E-Tron, I would choose it over the Tesla. For longer trips I would use an airplane.
And yes - if similar battery pack gives only 60% of range, this means that it costs much more to drive this Audi. Still doesn't matter for people who can afford it.
Since the Model Y costs around the same as many eTron/ID4 variants we can clearly see that it does matter for people who can afford it.
If the glove box issue is so real to you I got some good news: You can configure a Tesla to open the glove box with a single button press since a few months now. It's even a pHySiCaL button, isn't that awesome? 😁
@@Tschacki_Quacki I don't claim, that range/power/cost per km doesn't matter. I'm just saying, that for people who are willing to spend over 100k USD on a car it might not be the highest priority. Some people will get the phone with better cameras and features over one with longer battery life. Some people will pay 10 times more for a classic oak desk over an OSB even if it offers less space 😉
The "glove compartment issue" is just an example - Tesla idea to reduce cost by reducing physical controls is very annoying. Just like new thing about removing turn signal handle, or urge to navigate through menus to change air conditioning settings. Apart from that, Tesla's cockpit just looks bad with that single screen on a stick and many people will choose other brands just because of this.
Yes, tesla wins globally - but they won't enter premium market because they are NOT premium 😉
Completely agree with you. Price and lack of updates (in addition to lack of charging infrastructure) stops me from buying one. And I enjoy Audis, I had a Q5 for 5 years before I bought my Model Y.
US: Audi All-Electric Car Sales Doubled To A New Record In Q3 2023
Double 1 is 2 which is still pretty low... How about some actual numbers?
Wow what's double of 200 🤭
You seem to be confused about the max driving range of the e-Tron. I am not confused about it at all. Audi is still designing cars for gas car buyers. Big, bulky cars, with lots of wings and scoops and air vents and bold ridges and creases in the body panels and big wheels and big sports car tires. Their designs are super inefficient when it comes to KWh per mile driven. Tesla came at this from a whole different perspective. Tesla was like “what is the most efficient design that can still hit our performance goals?” Audi builds cars to look great. Tesla builds cars to perform great. It also explains why so many people hate the looks of Tesla cars. Every one of them is designed to be super efficient. Tesla gets this. The rest of the EV makers have not yet figured that out. That is why Tesla sell so many more EV’s than any other car maker.
Tesla will become the cheap cheeseburger of the motoring world.
@@robertfonovic3551 kind of like how GM and Ford are currently the cheap cheeseburgers of the motoring world. 10 more years and they will be gone.
If Sam had his way, every BEV would look like a Tesla, have the efficiency of a Tesla and be as powerful as a Tesla. What a crappy world that would be. The Audi would make a nice commuter into a city that had banned ICE cars. A car that would stand out amongst the ocean of 400 mile range white Tesla's doing 40 miles to work.
Tesla Model 3 Cd = 0.23, Audi eTron GT Cd = 0.24, so little difference in aerodynamics, but the Audi is a larger and much heavier car.
@@Radaos Heavy doesn’t make an EV inefficient. Because of physics, heavier just means more electricity used to get up to speed and more kinetic energy when at speed. When you use regenerative braking, you get 90% of that energy back. What you don’t get back is rolling resistance and air drag. So the e-Tron’s inefficiency is soley because of rolling resistance and drag. The model S plaid uses 21” wheels, where the e-Tron uses 20” wheels and they use the same width in front and the e-Tron is 20 mm wider in the back. So the rolling resistance is going to be nearly equal. The model S plaid gets 101 mpge city and 99 mpge highway. The e-Tron gets 81 mpge city and 83 mpge highway. What that tells me on the city side is that Audi’s regenerative braking is not as efficient. And on the highway side, the air drag is not as efficient. Regardless of what Audi claims their drag coefficient is, it is not as good as Tesla’s. The EPA mpg test numbers prove it: the e-Tron GT uses 22% more electricity per mile than a Tesla model S plaid.
There is an English saying that fits Audi perfectly....
All shirt and no trousers. 😅😅
The saying is "All mouth and no trousers."
And yours? All hype and no substance?
I agree, Audi's EV's are good-looking but their price is ridiculous and their range is paltry. They're marketing to the premium market when most people couldn't care less about premium cars, we just want great cars for fair prices. My Model Y has every premium option the most expensive cars have, for a base price, and still better EV specs than nearly every car avail.
I get a migrant to recharge mine. Better things to do than spend 30 minutes charging
Audi keeps a larger buffer, they don’t fully charge/discharge the battery.
Hopefully that buffer will be used when the car gets older.
Instead of spending 150k for a car, buy one for 50k and spend 100k on TSLA stock, you will NOT regret that in a few years
If you bought TSLA stock two years ago you would be regretting it now. Down about ... 40% ?
@@soupcouncil yep. no way i would buy tesla stock. i dont think tesla will be around in 10 years time.
better to buy nvidia or amd stock. i just bought 30k in tech funds
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣yeah right. u did that 1 year ago you would have lost 40k. no way i would invest in any car company let alone tesla.
I said a few years... only 5 months have passed... @@isaachunt5799
Seems like major German car brands who are running after EV trend haven't really tried the EV strategies that extensively from the beginning. Even if they make it that perfect, does it guarantee that they would better in IoT technology? Imagine Tesla, Rivian, and Lucid, and even BYD -- they're not just EVs, but also implemented with top notch IoT.
You could also imagine German cars as old iconic Nokia and Blackberry phones whereas American EVs _(except Ford and GM)_ are iPhones and Android Phones. Look what happened to those Nokia and Blackberry phones. It's the era of IoT besides EVs.
For a lot of buyers, the badge is all that matters. Cars offering better performance, handling, equipment, range, comfort, reliability, and even style, will often be overlooked if the buyer has their heart set on the 4 rings.
And despite what Sam says, none of these cars are 'bad', they all go pretty good. Sam will say in one video "250 miles is plenty, most people will only need to charge once a week". Then in another video, "yeah, 250 miles is not good enough". The big V8 German cars have never been able to compete on MPG compared to smaller engine cars costing half the price. They are different sectors of the huge car market.
As the high end, Audi is a reskinned Porsche Taycan and they have a different engineering approach to do with driving style over range, these Audis will have similar range. Given that the CD coefficient is similar to a model S and weight is probably similar. I can only imagine that the design of the car dictates the range overall.
I test drove the Audi e-tron GT. For a large vehicle, it has a tiny (albeit premium) interior. If you want to take passengers, and a reasonable amount of luggage, the Tesla S is a far better prospect. The Taycan is similar; at best, the cross Turismo can manage 446l of luggage. By comparison, the Tesla S takes 709 litres in the boot, 89 in the frunk, and the rear seats will take three full size adults with room.
Absolutely true. In fact, the Audi e-tron GT is the same width as a Tesla Model S and a little bit longer, yet has a much much smaller interior (I've had three Tesla Model S and I am currently driving an e-tron GT). However there is no doubt that the quality of the interior is way nicer in the e-tron GT. It truly is a premium interior. And it handles far better. If I wanted cargo space I would buy something else.
E-tron and the Taycan are different types of vehicles than the Tesla. The Tesla while fast in a straight line is not built from the ground up to be a 4 door sports car. The E-tron and Taycan are. Especially the Taycan. This is why those cars are slightly smaller on the inside. The equivalent of the Tesla as far as being a room and comfort would be the Porsche Panamera which is way more premium than the Tesla, but the Tesla is faster.
All of the German manufactures have a problem competing on range, power and technology. Ford and GM have a similar problem with their EVs. All of these legacy automakers will likely become relegated to a niche market segment if they cannot overcome their technical short comings. There care still people who will buy the German brands as a "vanity purchase" but that market is shrinking.
It's the same with the Japanese car manufacturers. Toyota does not have one decent EV.
They have economies of scale, if you think a niche market company like Tesla or any of the Chinese companies is going to overtake GM, Ford and Volkswagen then you are deluded.
@@Puzzoozoo I don't see this comment aging well 😂
Vanity can be very powerful. Look at apple. It's been years since they innovated anything but still have the most expensive phones and laptops.
@@Puzzoozooindeed. Tesla seemed to be underway but the company has waited to long. The “traditional” carmakers overtook them and Tesla still sticks to the same models. They cut prices but that’s the last resort I think. And, there is also a pletora of Chinese carmakers also doing their best. And they are not only competing with Volkswagen, but also with Tesla. This would be a great time for Tesla to launch something a bit more “premium”. The Audi Etron Gt in this clip is irrelevant to the discussion. It has only one competitor and that is the Porsche Taycan. Believe me, buyers of this type of car don’t care too much about range or even price. Now that the BMW i5 and Volkswagen id7 are there and the Audi A6 is coming maybe Tesla should upgrade the model S a bit, because now, despite of it’s range, it will fall a bit short.
Why? An Audi Q8 Etron costs over 1 million SEK in Sweden. Add the crazy interest rates at 7% makes it completely unaffordable. That’s why!
I have said in the past a porschettaycan with the tesla running gear would be an awesome car.
Audi" crap tron " with the tesla tech under the bonnet would also be a great car.
Not really
I wish you discussed the more economic Audis. The Q4 ETron and Etron (used) can be purchased with 10-15k discounts, so you can get them in the 50ks~ which isn't bad. Personally I'd rather get my EV9 on reservation for a similar price as it is bigger with better range and will have most of the features Audis "luxury" cars will have.
I think it’s fair to say that Teslas aggressive price cuts have meant everyone has had to react in someway or another or simply not sell cars.
Audi sold a record number of EVs in Q3 in the US, what the F is this guy talking about? Q4 and Q8 doing really well.
Just look at those high end manual doors handles that were invented for the Ford model T…Precious
You pay for the brand name with Audi . Tesla you pay for what you get.
Audi made their brand name with ICE cars. Audi is a nothing brand name in the EV market 😂
@@fmsantoscar yep you’re right about that .
FA is what you get. Bland , dated and problematic. A good car requires NO UPDATES.
@@robertfonovic3551 no you’re wrong . Audi n bmw try to wow you with crystal and metal knobs that nobody cares for 🤣. Updates come with every new EV so you not making sense .
People hate Elon for free speech on X but Audi’s CEO got a suspended jail sentence for defrauding customers. I think the Tesla brand is a lot better than Audi’s
All fantastic cars ,but when you are sat charging your Tesla at Exeter services.I was 1 of 2 Tesla's at approximately 20 250 watt chargers.
As I sat there watching Audi,BMW, mercedes,VW,Kia,ect arguing over 8 chargers 😂😂😂
Here are the pro and con when buying an Audi EV
Pro: Good looking vehicles, high built quality
Con: Shitty software, short range, no super charge network, no auto pilot, over price, slower than Tesla on acceleration
Audi doesn’t care about tiny, irrelevant markets like Australia Sam. Australian sum sales numbers don’t even constitute sales in a second tier Chinese megacity. They are overall still up globally in sales, year on year.
The Porsche and the Audi are the best ev cars out there if u want perf. But ev buyers want cheap and long range...
Lucid Air Pure RWD just out . Over 400 mi of range, 400+ HP, and 0-60 in 4.5 seconds. For $77.4K. And a 10cu ft frunk.
This is a high end video. Well done.
Thanks mate!
Not just Audi - I have a Taycan 4S in the UK (on a business lease) and values of these cars is in absolute free fall! 50% value after the first year and the government delaying the sale of ICE cars until 2035 is only going to make this worse. I read the other day Porsche have 550 brand new Taycan cars available in the UK, ready to buy….today. Compare that to an 18 month waiting list when I bought my car and those figures say it all. That said, I’ve leased mine and the value today, tomorrow or next year is totally irrelevant, it’s a brilliant car!
Until Tesla decided to drop their prices. All manufacturers were selling electric cars at a premium and waiting lists added to the value of the sale. That’s all gone now. In the UK, you can buy electric cars brand-new for under £20,000, which is great news for the driving public..
As long as it's not sluggish i don't care about performance. Currently in a 130bhp peugeot and it cruises nicely on the motorway at 70ish doing 55mpg.
VWs problems started when the designed completely different cars to be EVs. Mercedes problems started when they said they'd never discount a car again. BMW as always went conservative and have build their new models to be EVs which can be adapted into ICE. Significantly cheaper R&D.
Audi and many German brands did not get it. Tesla were expensive but most byers were *not* rich, for example I went from a Dacia Duster to a model 3 in 2018, and I have many example around me. Now Teslas are cheaper and even more people can buy some. Audi and others are building electric *premium* cars, but most people just want electric cars, the cheapest EV able to move 5 people on long distances is fine. Furthermore, people are more and more aware of how EVs works, they know that a big battery to compensate a low efficiency is a lose lose scenario (price, weight, handling, charging time, etc.). BTW, Tesla models S and X does not sell well in Europe, for the same reason, but Tesla doesn't mind, the models 3 and Y rules.
Seriously? You ask the average soccer mum what engine is in her car and you might get the answer "Gas or diesel". Start asking questions like how many valves per cylinder or variable valve timing and their eyes will just glaze over. I don't see these people reading up on the latest developments in battery tech and BEV designs. "I'll have the pretty blue one please" seems more likely.
I've had lots of Audi's, but they are just too expensive and not keeping up with Tesla on technology, and for a brand who is know for its technology is a pretty big gap. I'd have a eTron GT, but just too much $ for me, even with the price cuts. I'll have to "settle" for my first gen manual trans R8 while I wait for the eTron price to crater on the used market which given the competition they pretty much have to. a model 3 performance or even the Y makes a lot more sense for a lot more people.
I remember when Audi was a so called “gas station car” literally sold at gas stations back in Europe. They were butt ugly and low quality. Then several decades later it became a higher quality level vehicle but I stopped buying them during the diesel gate. I kept asking about the Etron many years ago but it was only a display car here in the US. Now it missed the ev train
I had no idea Audi had EVs.
I walk past the main dealer in my city each day and they only put an EV in their showroom for the first time this month. 4 years ago they put Jaguar iPace in there, no idea why. Novelty value I guess. It's clear they are anti EV.
Phillip.
💀VW💀
That’s the issue!
These prices are before on roads. Telsa order fee / delivery about $1400. Audi charge $6000-$7000
Kidding themselves with poor technology and terrible inefficiency. Telsa 3 RWD around 13kw and 3P 16.5kw per 100kms yet VAG is about 18-20kw. Amazing how Telsa have gotten super awesome efficiency when other EVs can’t match. Even an IONIQ is about 18.5kw.
But it's still a Tesla 😮
As soon as you see a lot of brake dust deposits on the rim at the front wheels, indicates inefficiency EV. (Less range with the same size of battery pack) Burning a lot of energy out; compares to US EVs with much better software algorithm bringing back the energy during slow down. (No need to do any range test)
My Tesla has a lot of brake dust, it depends how you drive it. 😊 The figures show all the German cars are woefully inefficient, though.
@@sdprycetime to check and lubricate your brakes
Porsche and therefore Aldi took the view that they would favour driving over efficiency and so the car design means you have to use the brakes. I don’t agree with it but clearly some people do.
@@sdprycewhat figures? Stop lying. I drive a BMW i4 M50 and it’s efficient given its weight and speed. Everyone doesn’t have to drive a Tesla for it to make sense. I didn’t even consider a M3P when buying and I have zero regrets. The big reason why Audi is coming up short is because they are priced similarly to their big bro, Porsche, which is a much bigger brand in every way.
In Europe most of these EV's are leased by businesses, and not bought by regular customers. These "fleet sales" very much depend on the sales price and governement grants. If they are above a certain price point there is no grant. And let's be honest: how many regular customers can afford a 100K+ car?
In Germany You get the Audi for Leasing half the price than a Tesla Model S
Germans taking care of Germans...hardly surprising 😂
You’re somewhat missing the point comparing all Audi with others on paper. Nothing turns heads like an etron GT. Even a Lucid is just bland looking. Audi has a brand cachet people are willing to pay for, even if those product refresh cycles can feel painfully slow. The etron GT is simply a unique product. There is nothing else out there in that category other than the Taycan. And of course it’ll receive a decent refresh in the no too distant future. I just bought a Q8 etron fully loaded and it’s miles more refined and well put together than a Tesla and some of the others. I’m willing to look past some of its deficiencies.
Audi is in another world, far from needs of a mass market. Since they introduced the single frame front 20 years ago, they look scary and aggressive to me!
I love my ICE Audi, it is worth every penny, but my next car will be an EV of different brand 😢.
Okay, then don't calculate how many thousand dollars you could save every year by swapping it to an electric car that is much quicker with instant torque and makes your Audi look and feel old - don't say I didn't warn you!
@@casperhansen826 Some people buy cars from the heart not the tech books. Feel kinda sad for you.
@@geoffhaylock6848That is true. Especially seems that 'Tesla people' will judge cars purely based numbers. Quality, how it looks, how it feels, how it behaves etc. seems to be forgotten.
I would understand that if I would would be still a kid and having car playing cards where 'best' number wins.
Have you driven these cars? Speed and range don't make a great car! Just try going through a few corners and experience the difference.
I live in Eastern Europe, it's unimaginable to have $106k for car. I could buy a house for that price. 😆 We will stick to driving 20 year old diesels.
Audi looks are probably the best in the world, but as you say the specs are no where near what they need to be. Even the e-tron SUV's cannot compete with Model Y on any parameter I can think of, other than looks.
Why would you not buy a product that does what you want it to do and looks super cool? I don't see people buying Audi's because they have best in the world MPG? If I needed a car to drive 100 miles a day that I could charge at home over night, then I'm going to buy the one that does that and I like the look and the feel of. Audi make some nice looking cars.
Just got myself a RS coming from a M4cs and HellCat Red eye, best cat so far will take that Audi any day over a Tesla
$125k for a car after discount and we are discussing why its not selling. Sell a model people can afford. How many suckers are there to buy a 100k car.
My $30g Bolt gets 250 mi range.
There are two issues. The custom of paying a premium for a more tight German car no longer applies to EVs. All EVs are pretty good and come with extras. This is a new era of car manufacture , sale and branding . Loyalty is out the window especially for late comers . Secondly , the fatal flaw for all current EVs is still range . Let’s not pretend it isn’t . The first wave of EVs must be sold at half price because they need to make way for the 1000 km range vehicles we all know are coming .
Those 1000km vehicles won't come for a looong time and if some release, they will have giga premium pricing.
The biggest issue with EVs is not range, it's charging infrastructure.
It makes no sense for most people to buy and carry a big battery around that you only need so few times. I have a Long Range Model 3 and my next car will definitely not have as much range because I realized that I almost never need it and the charging infrastructure is fine anyways. A few hours of charging over the lifetime of a car, do not justify thousands of dollars extra.
Range is not a problem and soon the price is neither, remember you can fill it up at home or at your work place.
On road trips most EVs charge pretty fast, just plug it in and take a break every 2-3 hours, especially if it's a Tesla
@@casperhansen826 As more people move to BEV's, more of the long range trips, currently done by ICE, will be BEV's. Do you see the infrastructure for charging keeping pace? Are we in bit of a sweet spot at this particular time?
It is very difficult to match Teslas 400 mile range in the real world. You need to be doing stop and go driving at under 60 mph to get close. The Audi can easily exceed its 250 mile range in normal highway driving.
Still drive the Tesla S the same speed as the Audi it can still easily top 340 miles of range.
Did Audi ever fix their EV software so it no longer reminds the driver the EV needs an oil change? Some guy posted a photo of that msg about 3 yrs ago, hilarious. Wonder where that software came from, lol.
Hi Sam,
I'm forced to ask one crucial question. Will countries, states, cities, etc be able to keep up in meeting the demand for electricity to power the ever-growing number of EVs?
Currently in California, there are already all sorts of restrictions on when and where one can charge your car! Where is this going? What planning is being done to provide more power into the future? They are now even planning to convert trains to battery electrical power, which will use up huge amounts of power. The trucking fleets might follow.
Realistically, can large scale power generation keep pace?
I'd value your opinion!
It was a single incident in the beginning of september last year, it is long past, there was a world wide energy crisis, here in Europe the price for one kWh was more than a dollar.
The solution to that kind of problem is to increase electricity price during peak hour
No one seems to be answering this question. I get told "the grid can handle it". But we burn so much diesel and gasoline for out own transport where is all that energy going to come from? If you WFH and live somewhere like Cali, having your own solar would be free motoring. Other places in the world not so lucky.
ICE is only 33%? efficient, so it's only a third of the diesel and gasoline that needs replacing with electric. John Cadogan did a video strictly based on Australian numbers. It is going to be a while before Australia get's enough electricity to move to EV's if John is correct.
@@geoffhaylock6848 similar in UK. In UK the complicating factor is that quite a large % of houses have no off-street parking, so owners have no way of charging at home, so they will have to use public chargers, which will soon be inundated, and in the near future very inconvenient with long queues.
@@dennisleighton2812 Agree, we seem to be at a sweet spot for BEV owners. But the issue is not something that cannot be solved. This issue is likely to be in cities where driving long distances is not the daily task of the car. So not likely you need to charge more than once or twice a week. Maybe all that money spent on HS2 would have been better put towards the charging infrastructure?
@@geoffhaylock6848 UK is relatively small, so range isn't as big a deal as it is in US. The difficulty here in UK is more the convenient access to a charger. It's already starting to happen. As more and more people buy EVs (and its accelerating!) this will get worse. In US petrol service stations are being bought out and replaced by EV parks! Hundreds of them! Currently in US there are already more EV charging points than fuel pumps! That's a fact! UK is FAR from that level. Europe is not any better. It needs a mind set change, and the more conservative Europeans are lagging behind somewhat.
In a year or two range won't matter and can not be a selling factor. Batteries will be cheaper and more improved. Good car quality will be mainstream. What is left then? Brands.
VW group EVs in a word... INEFFICIENT. Also, VW group has their head in the sand about charging. Why would I buy an Audi, Porsche, or even VW in North America for less performance, less range and less options for charging? As much as I like their cars, I won't buy one.
These days when I see a high end Porsche Audi or vw I’m never impressed as I ride in my tesla model y. Model y is so futuristic and software performance and feature is so ahead of the competitors I always feel like other brands especially ice vehicles are pigs with makeup on.
Old discussion: EPA ratings are not based on identical test. Porsche and Audi have longer range as stated. Time to redo EPA
In a word - BROKE - they will die under debt sadly
10000% agree! Elon has single-handedly not only beat all these car companies but is forcing them to lower their prices and is forcing them to make a better product or die.
I live in Canada and I like the Audi Q8 E-Tron, but would not buy it, or any other CCS car, here in North America at the moment as the CCS DC Fast Charging network here is a disaster. Most major car manufacturers have now cut deals with Tesla to have access to their Supercharger network for fast charging, but VW/Porsche/Audi and BMW have yet to announce that they are joining the majority on other major brands. Until they decide to do that, they are dead in the water in the North American market. Nobody that knows what they are talking about is going to spend close to $100,000, or more, for a car that they cannot confidently drive long distance without fear of being stranded. I am not saying that you could not get around, but it is going to be stressful and a giant pain in the ass. Why would I pay premium prices for that? This CCS/NACS issue is strictly a North American one, but that is a pretty big market.
But it only takes 15 minutes to recharge, and you can eat, drink and multitasking at the same time.
@@robertfonovic3551 I have no problem with the charging times on CCS chargers that are working properly. The problem is reliably finding a CCS charger that is working. The Tesla Supercharger stations have 8-20 stalls, all of which work properly about 99% of the time. The CCS charging stations have 1-4 stalls, half of which are in good working order if you are very, very lucky. Often none are working properly. If you are on a long distance trip, you cannot run down to maybe 10% state of charge and be confident that when you roll in for a charge that the CCS station is going to work. If it doesn't, hopefully you have enough charge left to find another station or even a Level 2 charger so that you won't be stranded. That produces range anxiety and is completely unacceptable! I currently travel almost anywhere in my Tesla with zero worries about charging. I know all the time where all the Superchargers are and that they are all working. I am looking for a high-end non-Tesla vehicle that is able to charge on the Tesla Supercharging network.
Any news on discounting the Q8? I am not paying $80K+ for a car with a 200 mile range. I am current looking at 2019 etron SUV with very low miles but dealers are suborning looking in the $40K price tag. For a 4-5 yr old car? Really? I am hoping as the year draws to an end, and with all the bad news coming out from Cox Automotive and the like I can get a used 2019 Q etron Prestige with less than 20K miles for $30K US. My strategy is to buy used now a cheap price and hold on to it for a few years until Audi gets its range up. As far as I am concerned I am in the driver's seat because I don't need financing. I can hold out.
350 Kwh charging rate. It is never linear. Typically the manufacturer will throttle the charging rate the higher the State of Charge (SOC). At 20% SOC? You may get close to the speed the auto maker promises. But at 70% SOC? Rate drops. 80%? Drops again. 90% Drops even more. Maybe they should quote "Our cars charge at 250 Kwh at 50% SOC" * and at 50 kwh at 85% SOC. Just tell people.
Hard to beat Tesla. The new model 3 has the interior of a luxury car now.
Some engineers do reverse engineering instead of forward innovation. Fire that team, they are living in the pass
Buying an Audi EV is like buying a Jaguar EV, or a BMW EV. No one trusts them with complexity.
Question do people watch TH-cam videos at 1.5x? Just wondering
In germany you have enoguh options for 350kW charging on the autobahn!
Fact Check: In the UK the waiting list for the e Tron GT is 5-6 months, the Q4 e Tron 2024 model year has a 4-5 month waiting list and the max discount you can get is 8% I know because I went to two Audi dealers on Friday & Saturday last week.
The UK might have a different pricing structure due to right hand drive. I would assume Audi only produces right hand drive models during certain months of the year. (Hence the long wait time.) If they had 4-5 month long wait times, they wouldn’t be cutting the price by $20K.
@@kyleklemanthanks for your pretzel logic. Google it.
Audi makes luxury sport automobiles. Spend some time living in them and then compare them to Tesla. A modded WRX will outperform a 911, but you wouldn't want to spend all day in it. There is something to be said for fit and finish, vehicle dynamics, and quiet cabin. That is why people would choose the Audi. That, and they can live with the range. The question might not be why doesn't Audi buy Tesla drivetrain and software. Maybe it's why won't Tesla sell it to them? I don't know what negotiation has happened between them.
Except I'd rather spend all day in a Model S Plaid than any Audi. But can't get RHD in the UK 😢
@@sdprycesure you would, if you could afford either.
What data is this based on? Everything I can find on the internet suggests an exceptional sales year for Audi in 2023, with huge growth in EV sales and in particular the Q4 etron growing over 100%. They’re selling more cars than ever, and more EV’s than ever. Had to classify it as a ‘problem’ by any measure.
I’ll buy a EV once the range goes up to 600 miles, Charging gets close to the speed of filling a tank, and the big one better cold climate use. Here in the north it’s cold for 6 months out of the year. And I don’t have a heated garage or parking at work.
Over the air updates for Legacy car makers is really so they can fix bugs, nothing else. They simply aren't invested in developing and improving vehicles that they've already sold and won't get more money from if they give away free updates. And that highlights the completely different mindset of those compared to Tesla, who want the customer to benefit from all the latest improvements and remain loyal to the brand. Look at the disaster that VW has presided over by not even fixing bugs over the air, letting customers seethe and fall out of love with the brand.
A bit like Ford lightning, Jim Farley wasn't impressed yet it went to full development and sales before any of this was said, that speaks volumes about a company
We survived 100+ years of car driving without over the air updates. On the list of things my cars need to do, it ranks pretty low on the list.
The driver in one of the clips was wearing late 1960s driving gloves.... Say no more!
Totally agree! Audi is waiting for the PPE and Cariad Software but honestly it should come earlier. Nevertheless the PPE and for example the A6 e-tron will be a better car than the i5. But as I sayed.. its late. And I am really not sure if the PPE will be cost-efficient enough for mid size cars like the A4.
You for got to mention that Lucid has a bigger battery, approx 112kw battery, hence the bigger range.but the key is the reliability Audi is way more reliable than lucid. I manage a fleet of 30 Lucids and I am not impressed with their reliability and dealer network
Agreed. I love Audi but this is a ev race and Audi isn’t a player
An EV RACE!!! To what? Non vehicle ownership?
I'm just wondering when the last of the ice cars will be produced. Especially the non truck type. I assume it will be soon.
I would bet it takes a LONG time in North America. We’re very far away from having the infrastructure necessary to support all electric. Decades.
@@Beastw1ck good point about infrastructure. I'm in Australia and were even further behind the US on charging rollout. As I do the occasional long trip up the country I'll wait a while.
My oldest 2010 mint Audi has 455hp and is faster than the vast majority of Teslas and the etron.
" my oldest mint etc" how many do you own? Hahaha
@@robertfonovic3551 with the pandemic I reduced down to 3 cars. S5 sportback, S4 b8 and 911s cab 991 type. A battery car like a Tesla would likely give 40 to 50% range at best as it really has to be driven at 50 to 60mph only. In testing a 10mph increase lowered the range by 25%.
The range is underwhelming for a car of that price. But, I would want to check if they are lowballing the range like they did with the Taycan.
Audi e-tron GT they are an excellent used EV you can get the GT for under $60,000 in the US and the Audi eTron 55 prestige you can get for under $38,000 they charge from 30% to 90% in 20 minutes and Audi e-tron 55 will tow up to 4,000 lb I tow every day with mine and it is excellent
I'll get an EV when I can get +400km (250 miles) range for about $30K. Here in Sweden the BYD Atto 3 is like $50K. And the basic Tesla M3 is about the same.
I was interested in the tiny Renault Zoe until I saw the zero star euro ncap safety test result. 😬 Peugeot e-208 and e-2008 has extremely bad cold weather range.
Giga Mexico = 25K M2
I think what matters now on electric cars are power, charge, range and software. In this new segment, it appears to be that looks and brand name means less every day. Now we have more information available, so we are able to choose based on specs. German automakers make excellent ICE luxury vehicles, but compared to similar priced EVs, they are way far behind. Car industry is the last adopting software related features, like we see on every other technological product. Cheers!
"...excellent ICE luxury vehicules..." Well, they were better lately after being unreliable for years... Lexus has been ahead for a long time.
@@guyboisvert66agreed. Lexus the thinking persons luxury car
Audi ownership is a clique area, where brand-loyalty is very strong. Please don't discourage potential buyers, as civilised drivers rely on the trademark 4 rings to spot the ill-mannered arrogant road-hogs and take suitably defensive driving measures. (Heaven preserve us from Audi drivers that camouflage themselves in any other make of car)
😂😂😂 so true!
Problem of these legacy premium EVs is the cost of their maintenance cost. With Tesla’s lead in massively reducing the service cost of EVs, the business model these companies use to sustain their dealership network just won’t work any longer. Just BS to pay so much for maintenance of these European cars.
LOL a Chevy Bolt 65 kw battery can get 280 miles for S25,000. Audi...what the heck are you doing?!!?
Down here Open Haus not open to Etron
A lot to pay for status.
Any car costs a lot, if you need to finance it.
No Vorsprung durch Teknik left to offer, as the Teknik has moved from the engine and transmission technology in which Audi excel to the software and battery technology. Meanwhile, while comparing prices across borders, please ensure you are comparing prices on the road in reach jurisdiction.
Generally speaking German automakers are far behind Tesla and some products from China. They'll be in big troubles in a decade or even ealier. People want to buy EVs and hybrids and VAG lost 5% of its sales in one year. This trend will be continued in 2023, 2024, 2025. European legacy automakers are not prepared to switch into EVs before 2025. It gives 20 months for new competitors to gain market share.
@@marianbiznesu1899Biggest challenge for legacy makers is the cost structure. Tesla is not making great cars (while they have partly very good tech and stuff) but they are cheap cars to make and buy.
Audi should have that huge discounts in Thailand. They will sell like hotcakes.
This is not the time to buy an ev anymore. Its all old tech once you get it delivered. If you want an ev just get a cheap one, like a base model 3 cant go wrong with that.
Imagine paying 100grand for a German lump and getting burned off by a 30 grand MG4 X 😢😢😢😂
RIP VW AND TOYOTA!!
You keep referring to the EPA RATED range, as if it were the actual range of the vehicle. Audis and many other German manufacturers under rate the range of their vehicles well tesla over rates based on the testing cycles. The top level Audis often exceed the rated range by 50+ miles in real world tastic.
Audi should have been ashamed of that badge swapped ID.4 they made - drum brakes on a modern Audi. I had my hopes on an EV TT until it was revealed Audi was going to make it a four door CUV
Drum breaks are naturally not great for performance vehicles, but not that bad for EVs. Tesla breaks get bad much more often than normal cars because of use of regen (but basically same issue for all EVs ... also Tesla seem to have more issues than others ... maybe one of the reasons why they are cheap...)
First of all: I don't buy from crooks and con men. Secondly, the car is WAY overpriced for what it delivers. Lucid and Lotus are really exclusive and can therefore ask for a higher price, but Audi? Audi is a bread and butter brand here in Germany, and nowhere near as exclusive as the aforementioned brands. Thirdly, Audi dealers and drivers in Germany have a very justified reputation of being arrogant and very unfriendly. In fact, I tried to buy an Audi three times, at three different dealers. In all cases, we stood around in the showroom for half an hour. Nobody approached us, nobody offered us a coffee or a water, but all the sales people were smoking and chatting merrily in a glass walled office nearby. I don't spend in excess of 70,000 € in an establishment where I get treated like this.
Well perhaps you should have been wearing clothes when you entered the showroom.
@@robertfonovic3551 I did, and I even had my fly closed! Also, I had my yearly shave and haircut before, unlike most Republicans and evangelical christians...
i can't understand why every carmaker makes cars that almost nobody can afford. with 300 and more HP when most people can't drive fast in their countries. It doesn't matter if you stop in 4 or 5 or 6 sec. for the next traffic light but it matters if you have tens of thousands in your pocket. Porsche 911 in the late 90ies had 286HP. Do you think anybody needs more ??? A lot of people need a car under 30k or better under 25k with space for family and stuff.
As for Porsche Taycan, the 2025 is even faster and has longer range than pre refresh! They are also more expensive. Porsche has more brand cache than Audi and can demand these type of prices! Similar to R8 vs Urus. because the E-tron is built on the same platform, it doesn’t have the brand pull to demand the price! I don’t care how good it looks! The Taycan has had depreciation problems, but that’s a lot of EV’s lately. They are still selling and getting great reviews.
For the whole Tesla argument, while speedy, Tesla is not a luxury brand period. It was simply the first mass produced electric vehicles. With that, the brand seemed premium for a while. The Model 3 and Y has cheapened the brand to something more in line of a volume brand like Nissan or Honda. They don’t really compete with the Mercedes, BMW, etc. one may say sales don’t reflect that. Well most German EV’s right now serve the high end market as far as price. There is no model 3 or Y equivalent. It’s a price thing!
The Audi has been out for a while. When was the car updated? The EV segment has hypercompetition in rapidly changing technological arena.
2022 was the first model year for the Audi e-tron GT.
2012 (?) was the first model year for the Tesla Model S.
The Tesla Model S received its first facelift after 4 years I believe.
@@soupcouncil If it is new why aren't people buying??
@@necessity1 The e-tron GT is definitely a niche car, not designed for the masses. It is a beautiful car that handles brilliantly and charges superfast and has an exquisite interior and a very luxurious feel. In short - it's an excellent luxurious Grand Tourer - hence the name, GT. Driving long distances with this car (certainly in Europe with the reliable Ionity 350 kW charging network) is an absolute pleasure.
However (as has been pointed out) it is also lacking in cargo space, it is not a good family car, it is poorly suited as a people carrier, it has shorter range than less expensive cars.
I love it. But my needs are not the same as the needs of a soccer mom. If range, low cost and cargo space is all that matters then this car is not for you.
@@soupcouncil Thanks
Finally someone who understands this car. This car stirs the emotions and driving it is truly special. I couldn’t care less about Model S Plaid acceleration or its range. There is a more discerning market the etron GT and Taycan are aimed at and they are not cross shopping with Tesla. That I’m sure.