DEVASTATING DEPRECIATION! Revealing the TRUE COST of My Porsche Taycan
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.ย. 2024
- The Porsche Taycan is a poster child for depreciating EVs, so how much did I lose owning a Taycan Turbo S? What would the same car have lost if I still owned it today? Let's dive into the numbers and understand why this is, plus what's going to happen next?
I bought the Porsche Taycan Turbo S back in November 2020, when they were the latest and greatest, there was a lot of excitement around fast luxury EVs, and bizarrely it replaced my V12 powered Ferrari GTC4Lusso. Over the 18 months that followed, I drove it 6,500 miles including some drag races, a road trip to Germany, and plenty of daily driving; all benefiting then from the CTEK Chargestorm EV charger we installed at The Shmuseum to negate the woes of public charging.
Having bought a very high spec car, coming in at just under £160,000 at the time, it was always expected to go down, but just by how much has come as a big surprise with the whole EV market tanking over fears for the future, and the impact of over-purchase of new, high-end models due to government grants and discounts.
It makes for some sobering figures and scary depreciation, so let's run through it all.
Thanks for watching, Tim
#Porsche #Taycan #Depreciation
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Imagine the depreciation when owners find out their Taycan Turbo S has no turbo.😢
It's alright, they didn't understand the brand anyway 😉
😂😂😂
was just about to google why it has a turbo badge lol
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Maybe they're referring to the fan in the ventilation system?
The UK taxpayer shouldn't be subsidising rich business people who spend £100k on an EV!
@@alanzyoutube they’re usually leased through they’re business anyway
Totally agree but who would buy an EV which is so over priced ?
@@adamwhite9304its because of the benefit in kind discount. If your a director and already max out your dividend payout and further money you take is 40% tax. So getting a taycan on personal finance is like giving yourself an 2k payrise a month without any tax and reduction on corporation tax, it makes it insanely cheap if you have a successful business. You can't really buy them through your business unless you can justify why your business needs it.
@@adamwhite9304generally they are not as you would need to justify to HMRC why you need a personal car bought for you through the buisness. A lot are leased personally due to the massive benefit in kind discount which essentially makes it 40% cheaper if you have a successful business and you've already maxed out your dividend pay. Also paying yourself more reduces corporation tax so saves you another 19% there
This is also why there are tons of them about and why no one wants to buy them second hand as the BIC discount is all but gone after the 3 year lease is up
EVs are iPhones, and no one wants the last gen model
Really any piece of technology
That's why you always buy used.., never new
To be fair I don't want an iPhone at all.
@@RYTF5 one plus is a good brand!
It's not just about the newest version, if you have an EV that's been used for a few years, its battery health will degrade meaning it achieves less range. You could potentially drive a ICE car for 100,000+ miles with very little maintenance, not the case with EVs. We'll all be "upgrading" and sending our old cars to landfill more often.
"Let's be honest EVs are for rich people," Chris Harris
Cool. I’m rich and didn’t even know it.
@@vandit83 prove it
@@chrismurphy110 here, an EV costs similar to a Corolla
@@chrismurphy110 what, prove I’m rich?!
@@fatdoi003 Get rid of the government leverages the rest of us are forced to pay, for the sake of the EV industry and its patron, and patrons' costs skyrocket.
Politicians decided that we were all going to be electric with absolutely no plan, and no understanding of the environmental impact, market, and support network. The whole thing is a disaster.
Would absolutely love to see you try and do a better job
@@FerociousPancake888it's not hard actually, don't shove them down people's throats
It's not going to end well. We need to develop our combustion engines it's moving to EURO 7, which is clean. Meanwhile, many developed countries build more coal mines...!
Yes, he said in the video that EVs didn't sell as predicted. Well they certainly sold I predicted.
They have a plan alright. The plan is to drive us all off the rad.
"Customers are not buying new EV cars", yet they keep voting for politicians who are forcing them to buy EVs
Who can you vote for that’s not pro-EV?
Because it's way down on our list of priorities. I think about EVs almost never.
We'll both be long dead before petrol cars leave the road.
@@axi0maticReform. Simple they are net zero antagonists
Electric car sales are up year over year. They just aren’t increasing as fast as the did a few years ago.
@@tomtd Shhhh! the adults are talking!
I have a Tesla Model S with 187,000 miles on it. It has original battery and 99% of its charging through its whole life has been done at home. I’ll tell people all the time if you don’t have a garage please do not buy an electric car.
@BryceLovesTech
The mileage isn't the main or biggest driver of battery life, as much as age & where it operates over its life span.
Hell, some people put 180,000 miles on a vehicle they use for work within 5/6 years. The average driver in the USA drives 15,000 miles a year. If you drive a lot 20,000 a year is nothing when you use it for work.
Plus, What is the life expectancy of an EV battery?
between eight and 12 years
Plan on a service life of between eight and 12 years if your EV is regularly used in more extreme conditions. These are states with severe summers like desert states AZ part of California or winters, like they get in Chicago, or the Great Lakes area of the United States
Minimize the batteries at 100% state of charge
Electric cars already have installed with a battery management system that avoids them being charged and discharged at the extreme state of charge. Keeping the state of battery charge, from 0 percent to 100 percent , also improves the performance of the battery life of your vehicle. Even though a full charge will give you the maximum operating time, it is never a good idea for the overall lifespan of your battery.
Ev batteries like to be used & doing so extends the cars battery lifespan. Your vehicles batteries doesn't like fast charging or sitting on 100% charging.
Control the optimal battery state of charge during long storage
EVs that are parked or stored with an empty or full battery also degrades the battery.
That's the last place any sane human should keep an electric car.
@@mini_steve Agreed I wouldn't keep any electric car near my house incase it randomly explodes
@@mini_steve Its not that its an electric car, its the Li-ion batteries - the Asbestos of the 21st century. In the next few years we will have much lighter, safer batteries with less toxic metals. I can see the government saying "All Lithium battery cars must be scrapped by 2040" :-)
EVs burn about 10 times less often than ice cars. And yes, that's corrected by their numbers. Educate yourselfes.
The Taycan depreciations and the fact that people aren't really buying electric cars (the vast majority on the road today are from the electric car schemes and not true ownership) is the result of government meddling in the market.
It's entirely appropriate for governments to "meddle in the market" to reduce the massive worsening harms from human greenhouse gas emissions. Most economists agree the sane way to do it is to tax fossil fuels for the harms they cause when burned, but many politicians are allergic to the 'T' word and are in thrall to fossil fuel interests.
Of course people are really buying EVs.
@@skierpage Though there really is no compelling evidence to support the whole 'greenhouse gas emissions'... so EV's are the solution position...
Intervention should of been gaz guzzler taxes fuel efficient ice is the answer short term
@skierpage the vast majority of EVs are owned by company car drivers who only have them because of tax break. As soon as that benefit is removed, 90% ow owners couldn't afford them
Taycans are being bought because of allocations for Rs models, then being sold in big quantities, ruins out market. Basicly Porsche made them to be cheap.
“Saving up to buy my dream EV,” Said no one ever.
The good thing is you don't need to save up with how fast they depreciate 😂
@@SirBioSnake someone would have to be the fool who buys it first, though...
If I had the kind of money it requires, I’d sure consider a Rimac Nevara.
This 😂
It the company car tax that’s pushing/carrying most of the EV market! It’s all a big scam given electricity is mostly produced by burning gas! And they have the nerve to call is zero co2. The older I get the more I realise that governments (all of them) are the biggest fraudsters and I’m only 37 can’t and don’t want to imagine what I’m gonna feel like if I ever see my 60’s
Depreciation isn't bad it's Good for people buying second hand
Yh only if they ain’t electric
@@teezyfrmda5th357 ehh yeah until the aftermarket comes with better more affordable spare parts
@@ashishpatel350 you waiting for Chinese battery’s 😂
@@teezyfrmda5th357 lol well who do you think makes the batteries
@@ashishpatel350 sorry to burst your bubble but a South Korean company makes the battery’s for the taycan 😂😂😂
Its not just EVs though. Look at the price of a new Panamera Turbo S and the price of a 4 year old used one. Luxury coupes and limousines depreciate heavy in general, that's not just an ev thing.
Surely it might be a little more on the taycan than on the Panamera, but it's not like a Panamera holds its value a lot better
Well Panamera’s have actually gone up in value in my country as people are switching to hybrids right now.
The taycan is an outlier though, for many reasons... The depreciation is eye-watering
It’s not “a little more” it’s much more.
Even a "sensible" car such as a new VW Golf 1.5 Tsi will only be worth 48% of it's new cost after 3 years/36k miles. Depreciation isn't just an EV "thing"
So... it depreciates like Porsche's other sedan, the Panamera.
Collectors want old 911s. Driving enthusiasts want used 911s. That counters depreciation. But nobody wants a used Porsche sedan. They are not collectable like the 911, nor are they "pure" sports cars like the 911. The people who buy Porsche sedans are doctors and lawyers who are only want to lease new ones.
Exactly he used the depreciation at 4 years. Which is not much more than a Panamera gas guzzler.
EV buyers should think of these things as expensive cell phones. Sell a used cell phone and its the same % loss
Incredible how intensive Tim is still going into cars everyday. He must be one of the hardest and consistent TH-camrs period. I love watching The Stradman, who mostly films in front of his house - how it must be like for Tim to manage time, flights, trains for all car presentations he attends - one day someone should make a movie or at least a documentary about him and the behind the scenes that we don't see. Hardest working man in the room for me. Greeting from Germany, Dirksón!
Thanks for the kind words and support. There are so many interesting factors about all of this that would be really fascinating to share one day.
Please please please stop using 80-85p/kWh as a comparator when that's not how you or the majority of the world charge/charged their EVs.
Exactly, also he’s using worst case. I can charge my Tesla (on the network they’ve opened to all) for 33-41p per kWh
You beat me too it. Mines 7p/kWh at home and around 40-45p at the superchargers.
Yes, this is quite typical for this debate. Public chargers should be compared to McDonald´s - great a few time per year when you´re on the run, but not your main source of food on a daily basis. If you can´t charge at home and your daily comute is outside the range of a modern EV - don´t buy an EV yet.
I traded in my Audi RS4 for an EV6 GT a year ago and the electricity cost is about 1/10 of my previous petrol bills (in the summer, 1/6 during winter). I live in Sweden and I know that the cost of electricity might be different in other countries, but using public chargers with "Ionity prices" as a comparison is just wrong for any market.
make sure your evs isn't parked to close to your home.
Talking about the devastating depreciation on the Taycan is unfair on EV's.
Yes its a huge loss but its also a huge car. What about the devastating depreciation on stuff like
the Audi A8, Merc S class, Bmw 7 series, Maserati Quatroporte and big fat Jaaags etc, they always were down
50% by the 3yr mark.
Yep, all cars of the similar type, no matter what propuls them, are not a good investment. You'll have other reasons to buy one.
Sure... but no government is mandating purchase of those cars. Get it?
My i5 is calculated to have 55% of its value left after 3years, 150k km (for the lease).
Exactly.
let's face it. Quatroporte and jags aren't known for their sturdyness XD
Maybe I'm speaking as someone that spend way too much time on the computer when I was younger but I thought this was common knowledge. There was a time where a DVD player cost $1,000 when it came out. Now you can get one for $15 at Walmart. Electric cars are tech. That doesn't mean I don't like them or that they aren't fun but yes they're going to depreciate quickly as all technology does. They are supposed to.
That's why you don't buy tech brand new. You get it second hand.
Every year Samsung puts out a new flagship phone for a 1200 and then a month later it's discounted to 800. Doesn't matter if it's a rimac or a Porsche.... It will follow that same principle always.
this, evs are still developing massively so old cars are quickly outdated
@@skandiaart exactly Kia is putting out right now a EV3 that'll be $34k.
Just three years ago that car would be 60k.
That's how it's supposed to be. Prices are supposed to fall once the technology becomes ubiquitous.
@@TCrimson05t If you're paying $60k for a KIA, you're doing it wrong.
@@rustler08 the Kia EV9 3-row SUV for $56,395 and up is an excellent car that's won multiple awards including World Car of the Year.
The Taycan replacement battery I read is £55k!
Love the Modern Classic Videos
Need a 458 Speciale in the garage Tim
That would be great, but also another Ferrari on top of the ones already coming might be even more overkill
@@Shmee150 your ferrari collection need either 458 Speciale or a 812 Competizione
Yup, was gonna just say that. One of the best appreciating Supercars. When is Tim going to get one or is he waiting for the prices to rise more. 😂
That won't help him with trying to get an allocation on the next major limited model and that appears to be the goal.
@@Shmee150not overkill considering Speciale is WAY cooler than any modern Ferrari
I'm afraid the bit missing here is that depreciation on large saloons has always been catastrophic. Just look at the residuals of a 2020 7 series or S-class. It's been one of the legends of the car industry for decades - buy a 4 year old luxury saloon, wether petrol, diesel or EV.
I knew someone with industry connections who bought a 6 year S class for silly money, had it restored basically to new condition, and enjoyed telling people it has cost as much as a new 1.6 litre Escort. He put 60 000 trouble free miles on it in 18 months, paid for by his company.
This is exactly what I just replied, before seeing this answer.
It’s not missing he says that at the end of the video…
His Senna proves the point
Hey Tim the 296 and Romas really went downhill.
296 is crazy.. i see one listet for 40% off sticker with just 200km.
@@marcoreut904 Where?
@@marcoreut904 Doubtful.
@@rustler08 Open your eyes then
@@Andy8x There’s one in Autotrader UK with less than 800 miles for 160K
I keep leasing, my last 4 cars all have been leased. Most of them with $0.00 down and 12,000 miles/year limit. At the end just bring it in and get new one, simple Do Not buy depreciation asset.
Err, your lease payment is your ‘depreciation’.
Do you lease it for free ......it will never be yours just a monthly burden....
@@markseabrook5279he’s a dosey sod.
Good evening Tim. Could you please tell us the story of your near big purchase on the beginning of the year? Very curious about what car was about and what did you ending up not buying the car. Thank you
I'd really, really, really, really, really like to tell that soon. I promise if I can find a way to do it, I'm going to do it.
@@Shmee150 thanks!
In which video did he tell this story. I've been trying to find it, but no lock so far.
Thanks, totally put me off ever having electric cars.
I am putting together my dream fossil fuelled garage that will see me through the next twenty years.
Interesting he references Porsche re buying stuff you don’t want to get the stuff you do, yet he said he wanted half a dozen Ferraris I; an earlier video….
@@jeibizz00 curious? Read a book it’s better for your culture
4 years plus with 2 EV's charging at home. Zero issues, 7 p electric, no tax breaks as HMRC won't allow it for my profession. Doubt I go back, it works for us. Did a 600 mile plus round trip to Scotland, last month, no issues, 15 free chargers at the station I used. Also done Alps and back with no issues. I can't afford zilions of cars, so have one that does it all for me. Tip runs, dog carrier, grand tourer, nearly supercar performance. On my seconf iPace now, and still can't find anything better, couldn't fit the dog in a Taycan, and Eletre too wide for our garage. Would be different if I lived in a flat in London, but I live in the countryside with a charger in garage, and hardly ever charge away from home. We have a mini like you had, it's never been charged away from home. Perfect for us.
tell me more when you are at home with a 10 year old EV. 4 years means its new in warranty
Thats a nice story. But irrelevant to what Shmee is talking about here.
Charging at home - you get better rates of electricity. But what happens in 10 years time when less ICE cars are drinking less amounts of tax laden fuel? How is the govt going to go to replace fuel excise? Are they simply going to tax a new EV and increase its price? Or are they going to start taxing your electricity at home?
You can afford 2x EV's and live in the countryside where you can charge at home. You state yourself, you are on a second iPace... not a cheap car! There is the issue though. The wealthy can afford EV's. All my friends who drive EV's are also living in (multi) million dollar homes. Yes, I can afford to buy an EV myself. But when I needed a new commuter car, I didnt go EV - I went ICE. Why? The cost of the same spec EV was about 40% higher than the budget I wanted to spend. Could I have afforded the extra? Yes. Did I want to spend the extra? No. For the difference of running costs of a car running about 5 litres to the 100km and an EV at the price difference, I needed to be on the road for 15,000kms a year for 10 years. I struggle to run at 10,000kms a year. Therefore, with resale values, I am financially better off in an ICE.
The future of personal motoring should not just be pure EV. Hybrid tech R&D sadly has ground to a halt due to the push for pure EV. As Shmee has pointed out, synthetic fuel tech, and other advances in ICE tech has been ignored.
By 2035, when only EV new sales are allowed, ICE used prices will start to increase.
Maybe then, the idiots in Brussels who are largely leading the charge (pun intended) globally to ban ICE, will realise what a f*ck up they have made of the thing. Tech never works well when pushed by bureaucrats. Incentives to go EV is better than a govt led ban on alternatives.
We've been doing it wrong all along.
"I can't afford zilions of cars"....... then you proceed to say you can afford 2 brand new EVs. Dude you are rich guy, thats why you have no clue what the problems are. Mind you, im massive EV fan and i want one, however, i cant afford it and there is nowhere to charge it so there it is.
@@Zoltan1251 None of the 4 EV's we've had have been brand new... The iPace was bought at way under half new price with less than 10K miles. I am most certainly not a " rich guy".
@@Zoltan1251 Maybe in 30 years the charging infrastucture and batteries will reach petrol cars refinement. When EVs will charge in 5 minutes, batteries wont be affected by cold and we will have real life 500kms range ( not the ones where you dont use AC or go 90kph ) then they have a chance
Idk who needs to hear this but cars are not investments.
Some special edition rare cars and desirable classic cars ARE investments if kept in perfect condition with very low mileage. However, this is a hobby for wealthy individuals that have a climate controlled garage and can afford the initial price and maintenance of a specific car that does appreciate.
they are not? why is 1969 mustang so expensive? dont make silly comments like this k
@@pikachusolu1606yeah, maybe 0,1% of cars are investments... rest is just depreciating assets.
@@pikachusolu1606 Keeping a 1969 mustang 55 years in showroom condition in a bubble would cost more than the car costs. They're not even that expensive lol
Putting that money in S&P 500 would be a solid $700k with no running costs or storage costs.
exactly. If you pay 200k USD on an electric car, it's on you. Of course it's gonna depreciate hard, no one said it wouldn't
Taycan’s also have all the huge tech subscription costs once the car is 3 years old too which second hand owners have to pick up. The current Auto Trader prices are what dealers are asking, they would accept less and also you’d get much much less as a private seller or as a trade in and would be losing even more. Tim, well done for getting out when you did!
Maybe the price of EVs are too high? It be interesting to know what the production costs difference is between an EV and ICE car.
When he bought that Taycan it was during the Car shortage era. The prices were absurd.
Took a lesson with a company that specializes in studying this. In the market actually, ev and ice cars parts prices are very similar. electric motor costs similar to Ice engine, electric converter to transmission etc, they are all similarly priced. Only difference is one takes 5 bucks to make a gas tank, one costs 10k more to make that "gas tank"
@@theJenkisushi This is completely incorrect. Electric vehicles cost 25% - 40% more than ICE vehicles. The main reason for this price difference is the battery required for electric vehicles.
@@white94rabbit forgot to add one word. Car parts. Do reread what I wrote and you'll understand what I mean. The 10k is the price of said "gas tank"
EVs only make sense at the more affordable end of the market, tesla have nailed it tbh, pump out tons of identical cars with zero individuality, sell at the same price, save money on fit and finish because you can forgive that if the actual product works, EVs are literally white goods
Hyundai Ioniq 5 N owners laugh at your comment. The refreshed Model 3 Oerformance is another sports car bargain.
Shmee buys petrol cars because supercar makers haven't figured out how to make a £300,000 EV that's significantly better. But the Chinese are figuring it out, and for only £150,000.
Your SF90 is stunning, Tim... Emotionally speaking, that car losing any money is a crime...
It's going to lose money because people really wanted the sf90 xx
EV’s are the future. Simple as that. Some people have more trouble dealing with change than others. Thats all.
Brilliant comment - most are unaware of their future.
WTF That is just slightly more depreciation over 4 Years than an ICE Equivalent. The problem is 4 Years is horrible time to sell a luxury daily driver car regardless of EV or ICE.
Please tell me where to find a three year old 911 for the same price as a Taycan of that age ,
@@alanthomson1227that’s a 911 though my guy! I don’t even need to explain this! That is an iconic line of cars and one of few cars that really don’t depreciate.
@@alanthomson1227a 911 is not a luxury daily lol this depreciation is comparable to an S Class, Audi A8, BMW 7 Series. Those all fall off a cliff with depreciation.
I love electric vehicles BUT, you're not getting my money until we get 1000km of range and a full charge from 0% - to 100% in less than 10 minutes.
Give me wireless charging of the car, on the Motorway please 😅
A Tesla supercharger is capable of already adding 75 miles of range in 5 minutes. How often do you drive 1000km without stopping for break?
@@Brian-om2hh LOL. Read again what you just wrote then come again. Try to make sense this time.
I couldn't disagree with you more Tim on the energy cost of operating my 2022 Taycan Cross Turismo. I charge from home and average around 3.4 miles per kWh and pay 0.11 per kWh here in the States. Therefore a 60 mile round trip to Columbus Ohio from where I live costs me $1.94. I also get 3 years free charging at any Electrify America charging station and free charging at my Porsche dealership. Since I use the car primarily within a 100 mile radius from my home, I rarely have to avail myself to those services. The above plus a $7,000.00 tax credit makes it very cost effective for me, along with the fact that depreciation only comes into play if you sell the car, which I love and have no plans to do so. Love your channel, btw...
This is a UK channel 🤔
@@martinaston1715same in the UK. I pay 8p/kWh on overnight charging. Cost per mile is about 20-25% of the equivalent ICE vehicle. It’s public charging that is crazy expensive. Simple rule - don’t buy an electric car if you can’t charge at home. This is the real issue.
@@nixer65 same, 7p kwh. if you can charge at home and very rarely exceed the range its a complete no brainer.
So if EV’s are so bad, how come the largest car market on earth (China) is 50% EV now ?? The Western car makers dragged their feet for so long and then offered us cars that were overpriced.
This is the small isle perspective on EVs..
There is a certain irony here with China the most polluting country in the world by far (with God knows how many thousands of coal fired power stations) producing the most so called ‘green/electric cars’ in the world.
Because it is very hard to register a car if it is not EV in china. So if the emperor wants things to be in a certain way, the people have no choice... So, I'd say, enjoy your rights and privileges...
good news for me who are looking for used taycans 😎
Really good news! Talked about that a fair chunk in this video too, and the current prices of different models
I enjoy older, heavily depreciated premium and sports cars with proper engines, which is why I’ve had almost forty of them in the last twenty years, mostly Mercedes.
When I look at these newer sports cars like most McLaren, I feel sorry for the guys’ insecurities and extreme depreciation, often funded by finance. I would never touch any car from the last ten or fifteen years and I’d never spend more than £10-20k on any older car used as a daily driver. That budget still covers the C63 E55/63 and many V8 or even V12 German premiums or the exotics.
An A8 or CLS/S-Class or an SL at £5-15k could almost match the specs of the sort of cars people get themselves into hideous debt for. They are a lot more comfortable and reliable, too. Without insecurities and desperately feeding their ego, so many people could get decent cars well within their means and focus on what is more important in life.
Motoring and being able to travel across continents for very little is a blessing.
What is happening to the industry and generally, in the world economy and governance is a dark, intentionally destructive rearrangement of resources and industries, with civil liberties heavily affected. They don’t want us to drive anything, anywhere and EVs are just a vehicle to achieve this. Hard times are coming. It’s time to reflect and seek more meaning in life.
While it makes sense why you sold it, I miss the GTR Roadster the most, it was just plain cool. I also loved the idea of you collecting all the Black Series cars eventually.
Here In the States they taxed us billions for a non existing infrastructure
That's because politicians aren't taxing fossil fuels for the immense harms they cause when burned, so instead people get subsidies for doing the right thing.
States were slow to submit the paperwork to get funds for NEVI charging infrastructure, but it is rolling out.
"There are now nearly 192,000 publicly available charging ports in the U.S., marking an increase of about 9,000 ports in the last three months, and an important milestone-we have doubled our national charging network since the start of the Biden-Harris Administration."
@@skierpageNot taxing fossil fuels? Why are you such an outrageous liar?
And nobody has done more for infrastructure charging than Elon Musk…but the Democrats hate him because of their petty politics.
Love my Taycan GTS 2 Years in faultless and I dont care about residuals as it has a guaranteed residual in the next 2 years when i give it back 🙂
Expensive rental car?
I bought a used Tacan 4S this past year. It had already lost 50% of its original value so it ended up being a good deal. For the cost it was the nicest and best performing car I could get. And the sports car I traded in was costing me $450 a month in gas. Here in Texas the average cost per KW is significantly lower than mentioned in this video. I have only used public chargers a hand full of times when on a road trip. So far it is one of the best cars I have ever owned.
Home charging overnight is circa 7 pence KWh in the UK (9.2 cents)
So finally he admits he's been buying the Ferraris for allocation purposes.
Porsche-inspired buy 2 EVs before we let you buy a proper car will soon become the norm across the industry.
Great review, lots of your thoughts made absolute sense. Keep up the good work 👍🏼
to sum up: rich people are being extremely wasteful and the everyday motorist will die out to accommodate that
His Senna is depriciated because everyone knows it has accident history. But uploading the Hypercar accident video, he gains huge hits and new subscribers on TH-cam. So afterall, he didn't lose at all. BTW Shmee started from just avarage super car spotter to a TH-cam star by buying Aventador accident video. Regardless Shmee is always wins!
Mate you are so mis informed. 6.9p per kw hour equals a fill up for £10. With Tesla no servicing cost or road tax currently. Just switched out of two ICE cars, both due £600 road tax both costing about £180 per month in petrol and the 718 due a first service, guessing c 750 porsche price
Public charging ups the kw hour cost to c 31p on the supercharger network. No where near the figures you stated. For your use case you made a poor choice both in choice of type of EV and your location.
For anyone who can charge at home of use the public network it’s significantly cheaper.
Given the readjustment of the market in January this year depreciation on a new EV is now comparable to ICE
You perhaps have been a little cocooned in your own ££££ use case to really understand the market
Can someone please tell CDN dealers! Heading down the EV path will bankrupt Porsche…
Porsche is part of VAG, a gigantic company. If Porsche went out of business as a brand tomorrow, VAG would survive.
I'm by no means a hater of EVs as they do have their place but I feel that it is unrealistic for governments to mandate that all new vehicles sold after 2030 or 2040 must be EVs as there are current or yet unknown technologies that are or could be just as good for the planet if not better for it than EVs are now, because of this I don't think that ICE power is going away any time soon.
I find the depreciation on the senna insane. That car is unreal. I think it may be like the f50 in a few decades and have huge increases.
Not when it shares the tub and drivetrain with the 720S
Agree. Senna prices will go up sooner or later.
Senna prices will never go up because it's just a high spec 720S.
@@istvanlorinczi2817 Its the same with Lamborghini's few off cars like Reventon and Centenario, selling for less than their original price and those are more rare than the Senna even though one is a body kit Murcielago and another one is a body kit Aventador.
To be honest, it had been in an accident, while minor, re-sell value would take a hit. So it's a surprise it wasn't more ^^
I refuse to take out a mortgage on a car, it all seems a way of taking away your freedom while the whole purpose of a car is to feel free
It annoys me that tax payers are funding evs for company car owners and the rich. Evs are not the answer.
Tag and are a great buy now, people can get in to a serious fast car for m340 money
Speaking as someone who lost £40k on my Taycan experience, Porsche needs to consider how it should/ can intervene to disrupt this understandable dynamic as part of its business strategy. It cannot simply ignore their brand’s electric vehicles’ residuals and believe it will have no impact on future sales, their company or their share price. So far silence. And that is a real problem. It’s not my place to suggest a solution to this complex issue but longer guarantees, ultra low interest rates, nil service cost and other variables that act positively on a whole of life car/ future owner(s) is looking like a cheaper option than having no future business. ie continuing to milk the first owner as Tim describes to subsidise indirectly their survival as a premium brand or perhaps creating a separate division entirely focused on “controlling” what happens to their second hand electric cars? But hey, what a car!!
GTC4Lusso is my dream car! Glad you went back to it after the Taycan!
This is a very complicated subject, where practically everyone's usage of their vehicle is different, so Mr Shmee's point about weighing up all the factors around electric car ownership is absolutely crucial. We have a home charger, which is seldom used because my wife's Kia EV6 gets charged FOC at her office via mainly their solar panels. Her previous employer offered the same. The car has been 100% reliable, which has a lot to do with the huge reduction in complexity over an ICE car. It's a real pleasure to drive on normal roads, i.e. not those quiet country lanes you see TH-cam car reviewers using.
On the odd occasion we do a journey over 250 miles, being early birds we leave home early & plan where we'll stop for a fast charge, the car charging to 80% in eighteen minutes. A real no-brainer. Regarding battery life, as another poster mentions with a bit of care it'll last for many years, and even if it dropped to half its capacity the car would still be perfectly fine for my wife's use.
Imagine fretting about buying enough Porsches to earn an invitation to buy a GT2/3 / RS… when there are dozens for sale on Autotrader every week. That bubble’s about to burst…
Saying you "lost" money on a car like the Taycan is misleading. You "spent" that money on a depreciating asset (read not a collector class car) or it "cost" that much for your ownership.
Cars are suppose to depreciate. Porsche dealers close to me are still holding the bag not selling anything and asking way over msrp. Greedy mofos don’t understand the market has changed.
It'll take a while
Ahh Tim watch out for that nasty depreciation going around. I hear Ed Bolian is allergic to that stuff!
I strongly agree on wasted opportunities towards making engines lighter, more efficiënt or even develop 'green fuel' due to the electric push from the governments. Not only the cost of going and driving electric is higher than engines, but replacing all 'good' cars now and ending their life before they're actually broken creates so much more pollution (waste) let alone the production of the batteries for all these new EVs. Hybrid systems are the perfect balance in this system giving the mix of green for short distance and reliable distance coverage with fuel, but unfortunately this step is being overlooked/pushed away because of ridiculous standards governments are trying to set.
Who's proposing replacing all 'good' cars now?
Governments aren't proposing to throw every ICE vehicle in a crusher. They're proposing to stop *new* sales when the country and technology is ready for it. (And no government with any sanity will stick with the current dates if the infrastructure isn't ready.)
Going on 125,000 km with 2022 Tesla 3 LFP. So far I save over $8,000/year. The car will have paid for itself on savings alone in about 6 years. Btw only down 14km range at 100%, really the best daily driver I’ve ever owned.
SMEE, you're a fun guy. You rattle off ALL of the features of these amazing vehicles like they taught them to you in grade school. I know you want to keep it light, quick, & breezy. Today, you did us a public service. There is a big business side to these higher end & super cars.
Hi Shmee! Great video! Your willingness to share how much it has cost you to own your cars goes above and beyond. Kudos!
My daily drive is a Mustang Mach-e that I charge at home. The only expense over the last 16 months has been a tire rotation and wiper fluid. It’s a lease so I don’t worry about depreciation or battery performance down the line although I suspect that the battery will be just fine in 4 years if Teslas are any indication.
In the meantime my new Cayman S finally arrived and I am enjoying driving it very much. That one is a keeper.
Temporary government incentives were never going to work. Manufacturers bumped up the prices of EV’s to try to recoup the development costs because the incentives were enough to offset the excess cost for those in the position to take advantage. It was inevitable that used values would tank because the 2nd buyer can’t take advantage of the same incentives. Many people have tried EV’s and have had negative experiences if their use case didn’t match the capabilities of the vehicle. We are also hugely skeptical of the claimed lifespan of the batteries. People without a large budget simply can’t afford to be left with a total write off if the battery fails. If EV’s are to attract used buyers their longevity needs to be proven beyond 10 years. If they don’t last longer than 10 years then they simply aren’t green and are just another disposable consumer item that will further ravage the resources of the planet.
you just admitted that you have to buy lower level Ferraris to get a special order whereas before you denied it when people commented about the Roma
He sure did. I'm surprised he hasn't refuted it with long-winded word salad.
99% of all Porsches have a high depreciation... (except some rare models) we know this already a long time. almost as worse as a Maserati..
There is a simple answer to why?? If EVs were as good as ICE cars they'd sell, no subsidies, no tax breaks required. They only work for a specific market, home owner with off road parking and a home charger, and change their cars often, say every 3 years. So the customers that can afford them, the wealthy. And that isn't typical of the average motorists. Great video Tim
I agree. The market for EV is really niche. As you listed, you need to be able to plug it in at home, commute from A to B within the range, and not care about depreciation (which will lead to people leasing a lot). They really are like iPhones, disposable after 2-3 years and that's it.
Some time ago I had a long conversation with a Ferrari employee. He was very cagey about the electric future and declined to say what Ferrari intended to do about it. However it was pretty clear that Ferrari were resisting and influencing decision makers about their future. They were still developing ICE at the time and still seem to be.
The reason EV's go down -60% is when they become older than 4 years due to the warrenty stopping after that.
The batteries and drivetrains in *most* EVs are warrantied well beyond 4 years.
60% depreciation in 4 years is not unusual in expensive cars of any kind. EVs have had an extra kick of apparent depreciation because they were in a substantial bubble ~3 years back with demand massively outstripping supply, and now that the growth in demand has slowed down, that bubble has burst.
@@BlazeFirereigncorrect
What kind of ICE crack are you on? There isn't a single major manufacturer that offers a 4 year or lower warranty on EV components.
Why? Because electric motors and batteries are typically pretty resilient, so the risk of replacing one is significantly lower.
In fact, most manufacturers offer 8 years or 100k miles for warranty.
Not done much research have you? Most new EV's come with an 8 year battery warranty, and the car itself is often covered for 5 years or longer.....
I've watched a few channels who had audi etron's bought in the $100k range and with less than 15,000 miles had trouble selling them for $50,000. Crazy
You really need some Porsches in your collection Shmee! A 911 GT3 Touring would fit perfectly
Maybe there will be a story for another day about my lack of modern Porsches...
@@Shmee150 would be very interested to hear about your experience!
@@usergt3960 just like Ferrari, to get GT Porsche's you need to have that brand loyalty. Ferrari have opened up to shmee while Porsche didn't really. No allocations given. That's all.
@@firewaffle1 Well, you still need to buy some other cars i think, maybe he decided to close his experience with porsche and it ended there.
@@Lello75-ww7ib With Porsche dealers, even if you buy like 10 cars just to get a GT3RS, they can't even provide a confirmation for the allocation.
Toyota stood down, and not only didn't f themselves in the butt for billions, but also has an amazing all new line-up...
Its brutal I bought my 2021 Taycan Turbo brand new and paid over $210K new and recently I had to trade it in for a Mercedes G63S AMG wagon and my trade in was only $80,000 and had only 20,000 miles in it. I lost $130K in 3yrs. The Taycan has been the worst car to buy!!! Shocking why this car has depreciated so much compared to other Electric cars.
electric cars are not anywhere close to a mature product, every year major updates improve them significantly, old electric cars are basicly outdated after a few years where normal ice cars dont improve much anymore.
Supply and demand, now the bubble has bursted and supply has satisfied the demand and the prices are therefore dropping hard.
Because it was a $210k vehicle that was updated with substantial improvements a few years later.
That depreciation is *proportionally* in line with other EVs. It just cost four times as much to start with. So, four times the depreciation.
Used EVs are naerly impossible to sell.
Yeah it was overpriced then and it's range is too low.
I will never buy an EV. They can keep them.
That' fine. Plenty of people will buy or lease them....
EVs sound like a terrible experience and risk.
Maybe from Shmee's confused supercar owner vantage point. If you have access to a plug at home or work, buying a quick quiet cheap to operate EV that's much better for the environment is a no-brainer.
90% of people who are driving now wont be by 2035
9:20 My biggest issue with EVs is that once they spontaneously combust, they are extremely tough to extinguish
No, your biggest issue is believing it's a much bigger problem than it actually is...... The NTSB in the US, recorded 180'000 ICE car fires during 2022. Tesla's own statistics show that out of around 6 million Teslas so far produced over 11 years, only around 250 have caught fire Worldwide..... As a comparison, around 300 petrol and diesel cars catch fire *each day* in the UK....
And this horrific depreciation is assuming there are no dents or visible damage to the battery pack, upon which the vehicle would probably be not insurable and be worth salvage only.
EVs are NOT the answer
EVs are the way that we reduce greenhouse gas emissions from the world's fleet of hundreds of millions of vehicles.
@@skierpageThey are A way. Not the way. EV’s work great for people who live in single family homes who can charge at home.
So what is the answer? You didn't say, so I'm asking......
@@NomenClature-o8s charging infrastructure will improve. If you drive 40 miles a day you only need to charge every 4-5 days.
What magic alternative do you think is going to show up? Green hydrogen is far more expensive fuel and the cars have failed. Renewable e-fuels will be even more expensive than green hydrogen; great for a few rich Porsche drivers to go vroom-vroom, irrelevant to everyone else.
@@skierpage What a dumb thing to write.
I am working in this field (sustainability and sustainable infrastructure) and I know many hate my statement but the real future is:
E-FUELS!
Porsche was the first and only one to understand the issue!
Thanks Tim for this very informative video. Keep Vloging M8. All the best, John.
Really? Welcome in Reality! its not unusal for daily driver in expensive cars. look for an audi A8 or Mercedes S-Class compare new and price after 4 Years. The Porsche Taycan is not a collector car!
I'm gonna enjoy my petrol cars until I die, and I am 24 so basically a long time left. I will NEVER, buy an EV. Not saying this because my hatred for EVs, it's simply to show that the government cannot predict or make us do stuff that they have zero knowledge off.
You shouldn't be proud of the hundreds of tons of CO2 emissions your combustion driving will produce. Governments know well that to meet their greenhouse gas commitments they need to reduce fossil fuel burning, and EVs unquestionably do that.
You will buy an ev AS andaily Driver in 10 to 15 years, because CO2 requirements will simply make IT extremly expensive to drive a ICE Oldtimer. The e-fuels nonsense will cost 5-6 Times the amount of the Electrocity for an electric Car, because it takes 6 Times the amount of renewable Electrocity to make them than using the directly in an electric Car for the same range. You don't have to fear that time so much. Electric cars are better as Daily drivers any way. No loud noise, No pollution, Instant Torque, No warm Up Phase or cool down Phase, less inspection effort.
@@matthiaskunst8336 Like I said, I will continue to drive the cars I want as long as I can. Even if it's gonna be expensive I don't care about that. I'm a car enthusiast and love my V6s, V8s, V10s and V12s. Currently have a V6, V8 and a V12 at home, and those will run until there's no more fuel to get or if I get jail time in the future for not following the stupid rules they might come up with.
So don't rely on the government for knowledge. Do your own research.... There are now knowledgeable independent EV specialists - at least here in the UK - you could speak with them......
It's just shocking to me that you guys forget that there is depreciation with every new year. A car is not going to stay expensive. We're not talking about a Koenigsegg
It's amazing how many people don't realise this
Senna is def not a hyper car, that’s why it went down in value.
@@poizonfreak9967 So what would be a hypercar? Anything going up in value?
Never buy a car for monetary gain. Buy cars for the enjoyment of cars and driving them.
That's exactly what we preach
Customers DO buy electric cars, just not the shitty overpriced ones that legacy manufacturers make. They are getting utterly obliterated by the competition, and deservedly so. Sales are in fact skyrocketing, not falling as the oil shill media would have you believe. But that truth is a hard, if not impossible, pill to swallow for enthusiasts like Schmee and that realization may not come until it literally hits him in the face a few years from now as bankruptcies of all his favorite car companies start to accelerate.
Porsche Budapest hasn't sold 1 Taycan facelift since their launch. Tesla sales are visible on the stock market and they have been decreasing, not skyrocketing. I have two EVs and love them (Tesla Model 3 and SH Taycan GTS) however the reality is that they deprecate really fast compared to my 911 Turbo. And they are not for everyone, if you live in a city they are great and really comfortable, but the reality is that since the tech is so new, newer models make older models deprecate really fast.
What ever he says, remember porsche “make him buy” a gt4 and a taycan for him to get a gt4 rs and then he got ghosted.
All of the pollution involved in mining lithium alone, makes EV's counter productive.
And exactly what do you think happens when you burn literally a dozen tons of fossil fuel in a combustion engine car?
There's no question and EV is better for the environment. The battery will be recycled.
So, basically no one wants these things. They just want real Porsches. Maybe Porsche should consider just making the cars people actually want.
Cars depreciate! Wow who knew😆
Ironically, it seems that in recent years people had forgotten this
Remember that since 2015 Paris Accord, in the UK, renewable energy has received less subsidies than oil and gas industries, in every year bar one. So as complex as this is, subsidy levels aren’t the only issue. EV’s can be cheap to make and cheap to run, as the Chinese have proved. Western car makers are simply not interested in moving quickly enough
Having gov'ts fix an issue is the problem. This is going to be a disaster. If something does not change, noone will be able to afford a new car, manufacturers will go broke, the economies of the world will be majorly impacted. But this is what environmentalists want! They want to see the population of the world culled and the "evil" oil companies suffer. Unfortunately, this is going to cause a lot of unnecessary suffering for mostly the poor. I say we do like U.S. did in 60's with NASA. We want to beat the Ruskies to the moon, so we are going to spend money on the tech until we get there. It worked. But artificial timelines for car co's is asinine.
"No-one will be able to afford a new car!"
Meanwhile, new car sales are up year-over-year, and BEV market share is up year-over-year.
Around 50 years ago, my Uncle bought a new car. It cost £1600. He said back then "soon, nobody will be able to afford a car".......
I guess I’ll stick with my 2004 E46 M3 which I’ve had for 11 years, and my daily 2015 2.0cdti insignia estate work horse.
Hi Shmee!
1 second off the first comment this time
Part of the reason for depreciation is also how quickly the technology is evolving, look at the capabilities of the latest version of the Taycan vs the original, look at the cost curve of lithium ion batteries. But the thing is that this is likely to bleed over to ALL cars - as EV's develop rapidly where is the market going to be for old fashioned petrol-burning cars that still work in the same way as 20 years ago? They will also look obsolete. So the disruption to the market will end up making all cars depreciate in value more quickly than they used to IMO, that's just a consequence of this transition..
Lithium mining? It's about controlling of freedoms imo. They can switch them off, don't stop oil
If control was their aim, they could implement it now by restricting the amount of gas/petrol you could buy, and the times you could buy it. Why would they specifically need to wait for mass EV take-up? Not really thought this through, have you?
@@Brian-om2hh erm red diesel?
Buying a Taycan or E-Tron GT is like buying an iPhone. You go fron paying $35k OVER MSRP to $15K under MSRP within 2 years. Because technology evolves so fast, that 1 year old iPhone looks old and slow compared to this year's iPhone. Suddenly the 2025 Taycan/EVs offered faster charging, better range, bigger screens, faster and brighter screens, better suspension, lighter battery, etc...With ICE cars, like a Camry, it's basically the same engine, same suspension, minor updates, but EVs, it's drastic, a 2025 Taycan get almost 100 miles more range then the previous model. This isn't just the Taycan, the Kia EV9 is the current darling, but when the next generation EV9 is introduced, and because it's all about technology, it will be sooner then later, it will get better range, lighter battery, faster charging, prices on the old EV9 will dived fast.
Porsche was eager to get an electric model on the market they didn't have the ability to have the range and charging speed that Tesla does and their next model will have a lot more range. That's the big reason for depreciation they were trying to compete with Tesla who has had a lot more experience and time for engineering. In London the charging is some of the most expensive in the world ridiculous
The UK tax incentive was what created a false EV economy - EV’s were the cars nobody really wanted
And sure once you’ve taken your friends and family for a few launches then just as quickly the party is over…
Hybrid currently works best, with electric + alternate fuel potentially being the future
Imagine buying one of these out of warranty and the battery fails on you, the battery is around $60,000.
If a Porsche engine "fails" on you out of warranty, that too will cost thousands.......