Say it with me folks... "This is what happens when legislators are allowed to practice medicine without a liscence! And govern without a brain nor a heart!" 🤬
We charge people who pretend to be doctors and practice medicine without a medical license yes? So why aren’t we charging these used car salesmen for practicing medicine without a medical license? Where’s the logic when it comes to them creating laws without any medical knowledge?
You're right! We should get rid of: The Affordable Care Act (ACA) Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) Medicare Act (Title XVIII of the Social Security Act) Medicaid Act (Title XIX of the Social Security Act) Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act (EMTALA) Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIP) Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (FDCA) Controlled Substances Act (CSA) Public Health Service Act (PHSA) Employee Retirement Income Security Act (ERISA) Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act (COBRA) Family and Medical Leave Act (FMLA) Health Maintenance Organization Act (HMO Act) Patient Safety and Quality Improvement Act (PSQIA) Stark Law (Physician Self-Referral Law) Glad you agree :)
It’s heartbreaking to hear about Amber’s case and how she lost her life because she couldn’t access the medical help she desperately needed. As an OBGYN in Malaysia, I find it shocking that such a situation could arise in a healthcare system as advanced as the US. This highlights how restrictive laws, like abortion bans in certain areas, can endanger women’s lives. Women deserve access to life-saving care, and it’s devastating to think of the lives that could be lost under such systems. My heart goes out to Amber’s family and all those affected by such preventable tragedies.
The US healthcare system isn't advanced in any way except technology. People die because they can't afford insulin. Nearly everyone I know has a story of a situation in which someone didn't get timely care. A friend of mine died that way. The US healthcare system is rampant with preventable deaths.
Exactly. I get why Dr jones is saying this because we do tend to forget how many people are involved but I don’t think many people are blaming them. It’s absolutely the politicians and losers voting for them. Even the healthcare professionals who aren’t pro choice still would probably do it. Maybe not. But they aren’t many anyway.
@@Mama_Bear524 Sadly, some people do blame medical personnel. They say things like, "If that had been my wife [who died] I would've forced the doctor to treat her." Those people are ignorant on the issue. They think the useless "to save the life of the mother" line in the text of the law means something.
It’s really frustrating hearing people believe that somehow this is a doctor or hospital failure. We knew this kind of thing would happen. We should not be treating doctors like criminals for doing their jobs. I feel like everyone has collectively lost their minds.
yeah my (ex-)best friend said the same thing when i told her about the women who have already died because of abortion bans. "well that doctor should lose their license, do no harm, blah blah blah." that doctor, and the team they worked with, would not have been in a position to make that decision if not for these pointless and ignorant bans!
And Doctors are in the position they could have lost their license if they do something, and someone down the line said it wasn't necessary. Damned if they do damned if they don't.
Exactly. And if all the ObGyns end up in prison, there will be no one to provide care even if we can get the laws changed. Doctors take a long time and lots of resources to train. They're hard and slow to replace. Doctors are people as much as the patients are. The doctors should be protected too.
What's crazy is that recently i joined some dog groups and when ever theres a post about an accidental dog pregnancy these people with with prolife profile pictures are the first ones to recommend an abortion with a spay surgery. I dont understand the thought process of dogs having better access to abortion than humans
Dogs already listen to them and do what they want. Human women are not as easy to control and therefore need more drastic measures put upon them. That's what it's about.
I had an ex (college era) who thought it was wrong that when I spayed my cat, it was also a “kitty abortion.” I was stunned. I mean, I’m putting myself through college. I can afford ONE cat (and barely) not five or so… Like, the same rationale that drove my choices when family planning.🙄
There were 8-9 people in the operating room for my D&C. I almost died. The 1.5 hour procedure lasted nearly 5 hours. I was told that if I had opted for the "pills" for my missed miscarriage, I would have likely perished from exsanguination (sp?). If my doctor had not been able to help me... Well, to put it quite simply, I would not be here.
@@juliachatwin3907 Thanks. I guess I doubted myself when I saw the lovely red line under the word. But, that happens quite often when the algorithm is not accustomed to the word.
And nobody should be shocked by any of this because we can look at Ireland- a far more deeply catholic country than us- and see that they began allowing abortion again but only after there was a horrific enough maternal death for everyone to rally around. But a lot of the same people that don't want to think critically about the application of their beliefs (or how they affect others in the real world) are the same people who don't pay attention to anything happening outside of America. So here we are.
Only medical doctors should be making these decisions (in conjunction with their patient). The only legislation that should be allowed in a medical care facility is the legislation that ensures that doctors and nurses have the necessary training and qualifications to make the decisions they need to make in order to keep/make patients safe and healthy. Beyond that, they need to get the hell out and let the trained medical staff do their jobs.
@@AaAa-v1c2x "Pro-life" people don't know anything about morality. The methods they use to try to propagandize people to their side are completely immoral.
@@AaAa-v1c2x No, but only medical doctors know what is medically safe and feasible for their patients, including timelines for when certain procedures can and must take place to ensure the best outcome for everyone. Meanwhile certain lawmakers who are policing medical doctors still think that "an ectopic pregnancy could be removed and re-implanted in the right place and that fixes everything yay why didn't the doctor think of that I'm so much smrter than the doctor yay me". .
Abortion is healthcare. The end. It is so messed up to put providers and patients in the situation where they can’t provide the evidence-based standard of care because of stupid laws written by people who aren’t qualified to make those decisions.
Agreed. Politicians not being qualified medically trained board certified licensed doctors should not impose their personal beliefs/agendas towards patients when they need that healthcare.
Yes! It's like the war on drugs, only pushes to the blackmarket & becomes unregulated. If you don't take in something a large chunk of the population are going to do either way, it turns into a great unregulated black market commodity for assholes to make $ of misery
Oh darling... The abortions that ARE about healthcare already are legal. But most cases THE MOTHERS are the one not wanting to abort their babies. You and other people are just wanting to abort anything to not use protection
@@wildestsquirrelwildestsqui5020 do you honestly believe that women are really not choosing to spend $10 on a box of condoms or $50 on a month supply of the pill and are instead choosing to spend $500 on an abortion everytime?
Also even if all the personnel were on board, hospital and network policy have to be followed; you can bet that those entities are going to drag their feet and try to protect themselves legally, rather than risk anything for patient care.
@@AaAa-v1c2xThere are young children being forced to risk being killed by their states via childbirth. Several have been forced to give* birth already. Why do you think forcing children to be mommies is ok? Do you think it’s moral to force little 10 year old Susie to die giving birth to a baby that’s gonna die anyway?
Way back around 1968 my mom got pregnant with an IUD. Something went wrong big time don’t know what happened, but Mom was in the hospital for about a week and my grandmother flew in to help. Thankfully, there were no questions or finger pointing but my Dad got a vasectomy that week. Mom had said her uterus was “funny” (she had a accident as a child) never got a good explanation and they didn’t think she could get pregnant, but she had the two of us. And we were living in Texas, wow hard to believe (and terribly horrific) that a women’s reproductive health was better treated in 1968 in an Army hospital that 2024. Glad I hit menopause, and terrified for my son and his future whomever.
My uterus is also funny. Found out when I got pregnant. Was told that I could not carry to term and survive. I asked to have a termination, but the doctor said they could only do it in life threatening emergencies. I was then handed prenatal vitamins and that was the end of the appointment. This was in 2005. Thankfully, I got the termination at another clinic in Alaska. We were on a slipperly slope 20 years ago, but now it is just made worse. I was lucky that my clinic was just down the street. I can't imagine having to fly across the country just to get a medical procedure to save my life.
Some confusion sorry, my sister and I were already on the scene so to speak, had been for a few years. I kind of remember her being in the hospital cuz Granny was there and won’t let me watch a Elvis movie on TV. Luckily Mom had us early because she ended having a lot of “women problems” and ended up with a hysterectomy at 36.
This is why medical emergency exceptions don't work. The line of necessary vs unnecessary isn't easy to know while the patient is alive, and the rules are not well constructed enough to avoid a gray area in the critical stages
This! Also, waiting until things are black and white instead of a gray area means that the patient is in worse condition when starting an intervention, increasing the risk of negative outcomes or complications. Even if the patient lives, they might have a more difficult recovery and some irreversible damage caused by waiting until the last possible moment to intervene.
Just a quick question. Why aren't insurance companies stepping up in this fight? It costs WAY less to get a few pills, or do a D&C, than to treat someone that went into shock and nearly died from sepsis. It is also WAY less than paying for prenatal care and the delivery of a still-born fetus. You would think they would be pro-abortion solely as a cost saving measure.
@cggc9510 Seems like health insurance companies love it when patients get expensive care, because while they may cover a part of the cost, it's on the patients to pay the rest. Also, hospitals love to bill insurance companies out the @ss so if they can do more costly procedures that benefits them as well. Patient outcomes are not too much of a concern when corporations put profits over people.
@@Cuddly-CactusAlso, the politicians who support banning women's healthcare are the same politicians working to dismantle the ACA, create even more tax breaks for big corporations like health insurance companies, etc. Getting rid of the ACA alone means far more people who need emergency care will be uninsured (and therefore their hail Mary care will paid for by tax payers).
Yeah, what cuddly cactus said. Insurance companies only dislike expensive procedures when they have to pay for them. Some insurance companies incentivize particular diagnoses/treatments, like how the privatized medicaid/medicare republicans are pushing for actually costs taxpayers more, because it incentivizes doctors to give unnecessary expensive treatment to increase its profit margins.
@@sarah.s.flanagan yep. My parents plan (back when I was still on it, IDK about now) hit the out of pocket max in February most years. So everything in network was just free. So they were paying a lot for two chronically ill people (my meds alone are like $56k/year full price).
medlifecrisis did a video a while back talking about how the difference between a patient dying and not can be near impossible to call, he's a cardiac surgeon and used the example of two similar patients he was doing similar heart surgery on and said until they try to restart the heart etc (can't remember the terminology/details of complex heart surgery 😂sorry) he can't guess whether it will succeed or not. He was asking where do we draw the line between living and dead, both patients were there on his operating table without a pulse and one would go back to their full life, while the other would pass on the table, and again while he was operating he really couldn't guess what the outcome would be. how are doctors supposed to 'know' when sepsis/blood loss etc becomes life threatening enough? medicine can be really complex with grey areas and blurred lines with patients reacting differently to conditions and interventions- asking doctors and other clinicians to make black and white decisions in an area full of shades of grey is going to kill people. Maybe most people would survive loosing x litres of blood . . . but the patient in front of them has an undiagnosed heart issue that they'll only find out about at the autopsy
@@bonjovi2792 What? I just choose a hypothetical, MDJ has talked about blood loss before and how patients seem to compensate for it really well until they don't. Didn't realise a poor woman had already made the news with something like that. and a D&C is an abortion procedure
@@claire2088 there are at least two direct cases in Georgia that I know about. I am sure there are plenty in other states we don't have full details onnl yet.
When a boyfriend in a viral meme asks why there are left and right tampons, it is funny. It becomes less funny when people with that amount of education are in power over your body, fertility and life.
@@AaAa-v1c2x A significant number of women who seek abortion are married women with children. I know it's hard to understand when you have no relevant experience.
Significant what? How many do you even know that are married and since when isn't it mostly promisious people whonhave sex when their not ready. Like what?
I’ve had two D&Cs. In 1979 & 1983ish. No anesthesia until I stood up in the stirrups and screamed at the nurses who were performing the procedure whereupon they knocked me out. I was told I didn’t need any because the uterus has no nerve endings. I got through the scrapping but the sponges were unbearable. But no medical professional should have to risk their license to provide the care their patient needs.
The misinformed people who vote for politicians with no medical training is where I put my blame. I am in upstate SC and these people are only as good as the misinformation that their "news" sources pours into them. They literally don't know what an abortion REALLY is or how it will affect them.
@@AaAa-v1c2x You're so right, it's definitely REPREHENSIBLE for a doctor to have to choose between their medical license and saving their patient! I'm sure that's what you meant :)
If a dr or nurse refuses to do their job because of personal biases or beliefs, then they need a different job. Your personal beliefs should only dictate your life, not everyone around you. The people who deny filling a prescription for BC because of their religion are not doing the duties of their job. Do your job or get fired.
You're absolutely right! My mom had to have her uterus scraped because cells were found that were prestage of cancer. My siblings and I were teenagers, so an invasive procedure to the uterus to avoid possible cancer was a no brainer. She went to the hospital, had the procedure done and stayed for the night to control bleeding and manage pain and was released midday the next day. The nurse she had on the second day was astoundingly nasty, didn't give her the prescribed pain medication, gave her dirty looks over breakfast, was rude when caring for the wound. My mom asked her about it and she replied: "Although it's apparently legal I don't condone behaviour of women like you." My mom was flabbergasted and thought the lady knew her from her political and social activities and was unprofessional enough to oppose these through lack of work on my mom. It took her hours to count one and one together and grasp that this nurse thought she had had an abortion. Just imagine having one of THOSE nurses in your ward while abortions are illegal. Any procedure similar to those who may end pregnancies would be reported to the police by such a selfrighteous woman. The US have already seen nurses report miscarriages as "suspected home abortions" with the miscarrying mom being arrested. No doctor would attempt anything in this radical climate without prior written consent by the administration and ethics committee. And that's why women die. But that's exactly what right wing politicians and selfrighteous nurses and family values voters wanted. Family first, women second. So, that's what we got.
Ok I agree with you fully but I also have very little faith in Georgia doctors at this point in general 😅 I live here and the horror stories you hear about doctors refusing patients wishes during pregnancy/labor for reasons not related to hospital policy or best medical practices are pretty bad. My husbands first day doing nurse clinicals, he witnessed a very botched delivery because the doctor refused the patient wishes and she lost her uterus and almost her life- yes this is just one story but I’ve heard dozens at this point, both from people directly and online. So obviously your point still stands and we shouldn’t make assumptions, but lots of doctors here let their religious beliefs or personal biases color their work and it’s really kind of terrifying for pregnant patients.
I am not disagreeing but admit ignorance. Can you give an example of laws that support doctors who do this kind of malpractice due to bias? Does it have to do with being able to refuse to do things out of religious belief or what? My first thought is how lots of doctors are allowed to refuse to perform hysterectomies on child-bearing-age women who decisively never want biological children.
@@colleenwilliams1689 Specifically, I was referring to how abortion bans end up banning life saving interventions during pregnancy and birth. You brought up a good example of how some states allow physicians, pharmacists, nurses, and private employers (like Hobby Lobby) to ignore standards of care and just refuse treatment based on religious convictions -- wether that is a pharmaceutical or a procedure. Refusal to perform sterilizations like bilateral salpingectomy, and refusing to provide birth control are top of mind.
I think what’s important to understand though is that these kinds of doctors will be emboldened by these laws while better doctors will be criminalized.
That is why "concience objection" should not be a thing. If a doctor is not willing or capable of giving medical attention, then they must be obligated to derive you to someone capable and willing.
Healthcare decisions should NEVER be in the hands of politicians, Supreme Court justices, or voters. Healthcare decisions should only ever be between a patient and their doctor.
I will never forget the time I was called to administer methotrexate to a patient with an ectopic pregnancy. It took me a little while to get to the patient (I was the only chemo certified nurse in the house that night and I had my own team). By the time I got to the floor, I could not give the methotrexate to the patient, because a associate had requested an ethics consult because they didn’t think that we should be performing abortions at a catholic hospital. That patient was in a lot of pain and had to wait till the next day for an ethics consult to meet. Thankfully, she was given the methotrexate the following day. But I cannot believe the level of stupid that happenedbeforehand. I later found out. It was a nurse that requested the ethics consult. I don’t have words to express how stupid it is to think that we should just let the mother die rather than administer a lifesaving abortion.
Wow, I hope that nurse got schooled. How ignorant to protest against life-saving treatment for the mother when the ectopic pregnancy had no chance to produce life in the first place. They can't claim to be pro-life when they're advocating for two deaths instead of one. (Or none, if you don't count a non-viable pregnancy.)
these laws are pretty much a trial by water by proxy. if the patient dies (drowns), then the obstetrician is not a witch for asking the hospital lawyer if they can perform the D&C. if the patient lives (floats), then the obstetrician might be a witch for asking the hospital lawyer if they can perform the D&C. in this analogy, the hospital lawyer is not the judge-they’re the person that the obstetrician is trying to cast a spell on or mislead with their witchy ways. the judge is the state, no patient gets the D&C, and the patients who survive probably have some sort of injury anyway.
Yep. I've seen some forced birthers claim that if you have an abortion and live that the abortion wasn't necessary "because you lived so clearly your life wasn't in danger". Like no, that's not how it works.
I live in a country where abortion is still legal, but I still have ptsd from doctors not respecting my wishes during birth. Birth trauma is real, and yeah, it's the doctors.
@Shayron1989 How could you possibly know that without knowing what happened? You are making a lot of unwelcome assumptions. I like this, Dr. and I follow her, and I'm sure it's not her, but it absolutely is a lot of Dr's who are the problem. My situation absolutely does relate to this, but you wouldn't know that because I didn't share. I also almost died for these reasons.
@@JenniferJohnson-ub3gt what you went through is horrifying and never should have happened. But your experience in no way negates the fact that the laws being discussed _are killing people._
@sarahblack9333 I agree that the laws are killing people. It's both. It's misogyny within the medical system towards women and evil laws. What about my post gave you the impression that I would ever agree with anti pro choice laws? Absolutely nothing I said points to that. I'm as pro choice as they come. Again, I think you are assuming things without evidence.
Yes, the laws are killing people. TH-cam keeps deleting my replies. I am as pro choice as they come. Nothing in my comment says that I disagree. Again, assumptions. Misogyny in medicine also kills people. Doctors also kill people.
Even if it was due to a doctor's personal beliefs. It's still an issue with the law! The law used to force personal an religious beliefs to be separate from everything else. Businesses and medical institutions included. We now have laws in some areas that allow people to straight up deny services, even emergency ones, if it doesn't align with their beliefs. As well as clinics that are literally just religious institutions trying to practice medicine.
@@AaAa-v1c2x So you want to "save lives" but not if they become a felon, right? Not if they're born into poverty and their family can't afford food or healthcare? Not if they're queer or trans? You want to "save lives" but you don't want to provide birth control or sex education that lowers rates of unintended pregnancies, right? You can't have it both ways. If you're pro-life, you're anti-death penalty, pro-social services, pro-sex education, pro-free and accessible birth control, pro-LGBTQIA+, otherwise you're a horrifying hypocrite.
The tragedy is this exact scenario was spelled out as inevitable by prochoice campaigners, because this inevitably happens in every country that has restrictive abortion laws. The people responsible for overturning the laws are directly responsible for this young lady’s death and should be held accountable (and we know they never will).
100% expected consequences of these laws. Get the government out of healthcare, out of religion, out of identity and culture-NOW!!!!!! YOU RUN A COUNTRY'S GOVERNMENT. NOT A COUNTRY! YOU REPRESENT THE PEOPLE. NOT CONTROL THEM!
Guys, I had to yell at my 25 year old nephew about how dangerous these laws are. He said women aren’t dying. 😡. It’s so disheartening man. Women are dying! If these laws were passed when I was having my babies i might’ve died. My mom had an abortion in the 60s in a seedy motel. She could’ve died. Ffs. I’m so upset. And I’m Canadian!! Our rights can be taken away too. They weren’t always here. I hate this for us so much.
How are government officials and politicians allowed to practice medicine without a license and without knowing how to preform the medicine procedures in question?!? Why aren’t more people being sued for practicing medicine without a license and making the decision for the patient without knowing the medical history or facts of the procedure that the patient needs?!?
Even before all of this stuff they didn't always do a D&C. I almost died over 16 years ago. I had a miscarriage but everything didn't come out and I was bleeding internally. They didn't know until I got super sick. Then they finally rushed me into surgery
People cannot be expected to make the best decisions when choosing wrong will end their career. That is what the laws are designed to do, and that is exactly what they are doing. Even without laws like these, it's not always clear what will happen to a patient and how quickly
The GA law is very egregious. It states that if you even accidentally or unintentionally injure or cause death to an unborn child and that’s once cardiac activity starts in pregnancy you’re responsible for paying for their entire life in damages. Now I’m not sure if that’s for a full potential lifespan or not because that’s vague wording. Why would any provider want to touch a pregnant patient?! It’s section 4h of HB 481, and section 6 that talks about damages.
I will never blame anybody for not risking their means of earning money in order to save a person's life. People are crazy and their gratefulness is severely limited. They WILL sue if they can. Either the patients themselves or some relative/ friend/ neighbour/ bystander... Never risk your license or your lifelyhood for somebody else.
This reminds me of the time when I got in a car accident and broke my ribs. The roads were slick that day and I was giving my boyfriend directions. I forgot to tell him the right exit and I didn't want to tell him at the last minute for him to suddenly merge in those poor road conditions. That led to the GPS rerouting us onto a backroad. That backroad hadn't been plowed yet, the car completely lost traction, and we went head first into a tree. In hindsight, should I have told him to get over quick and maybe we would have been safe? Maybe. I sometimes thought that. But I had to quickly make a judgement call with the information that I had at the time. And what I knew is that cutting across traffic in the snow is dangerous
@rusty_keys well unfortunately this has made doctors leave red states so there's just deserts for gynecological care. This is a catastrophe. I think about women that have some kind of cancer that lost their doctor. Just horrible
@rusty_keys it certainly is. Nobody is making a 5 hour drive out of state if they're going through chemo or something. I'd be interested in hearing the stories of women who's doctors have had to leave them in dire conditions as well
@@AuntieMamies exactly. I know someone who lives in a state with strict bans and he said the closest hospital to him with a labor and delivery unit is 5 hours away from him. So people are being forced to give birth in ERs that don't have the needed supplies. Want an epidural? Too bad, not an option. Have complications? Hope you can survive waiting for the helicopter and then the over hour flight to the nearest hospital that can help you.
If she died from sepsis due to her dead babies' remains staying inside of her body for too long after her abortion pills from another state killed them, then this is one more story of providers waiting too long to remove remains via D&C. I'd say they waited specifically because she used abortion medications, but I've seen stories of providers denying or delaying D&C after miscarriages too. I have yet to see a single law related to abortion that should cause these providers to delay removing already deceased babies from their mother's bodies. Abortion bans or not, that is not the medical care in question in these circumstances. There's no moral debate about removing the remains.
Why did women vote against their own best interests? We should stand together, the men do! And don’t tell me it was the cost of groceries, certainly we are worth more than the cost of eggs. Next time a smart qualified woman is on the ballot,vote smart! If we ever get another chance.
That's great. After multiple years of training to become a nurse or doctor, if the law doesn't allow for you to provide the care, you won't be able to find a clinic or hospital in which to practice. And if you do, by some miracle, you can be snatched up and sent to prison preventing you from helping anyone ever again. We need to support organizations like Women On Waves and other abortion access groups. We need to fight for above board justice, proper legislation and treatment.
@@AaAa-v1c2x U sound like u just got out of a time machine from the 1400s. Marriage has nothing to do with it and abortions SAVE ppl. Here, let me show you around the 21st century.
In addition you do not want to make it acceptable that doctors break the law because they don't agree with it. That would open the floodgates of doctors prescribing ivermectine for treating Covid, treating cancer with quack medicines, using improperly tested drugs, etc.
What you are talking about is the difference between a doctor not being able to do a medical procedure that is done all the time, all over the world and a doctor telling someone to take a medication is not scientifically backed. Those are two very different things
Those aren't laws though, those are at best off-label uses of prescriptions (which already happens with some regularity) and at worst fully incorrect or unresearched prescriptions
And it wasn't just about potentially losing their medical licenses, it was about potentially going to jail if some officious official decided that the mother hadn't been near 'enough' to death to require medical intervention at that point. Restrictive states are losing obstetric experts because they don't want to be put in that position.
My partner and I have decided we want to have kids soon but I'm scared because if something goes wrong I might not be able to get the medical help I need.
I hope you can move to a state or country with adequate protection for women, and have the kids you want. Otherwise, I applaud you avoiding pregnancy. The risks are too great. The risks in ideal circumstances are already serious enough.
@@AaAa-v1c2x for most of human history pregnancy was the #1 cause of death for women. There's good reason to be afraid of something going wrong and not being able to get the help you need to survive.
@xcristinat You suggest adoption and fostering. Considering the context of this video, it comes across as glossing over the risks to the gestational parent. Whoever is pregnant under these draconIan and backwards laws is at much greater risk of death and disability.
Danielle we Need you to be the head of The Department of Health and Human Services!!!!!!!!!❤❤❤❤ Can you imagine how many changes for the good you could do!!!!! And you can do it all by Zoom so you can stay with your family in New Zealand!!!!
It’s up to the head guys of the hospital that restrain the staff from risking legal action. The docs and nurses have to do what they are told or any legal action will be on them.
I think we tend to forget that most healthcare professionals work for corporations. Corporations that have policies, accepted practices and boards who make decisions. Decisions based on profits...
Why: bc something like gallbladder pain doesn’t get taken seriously so I can’t imagine yall actually gaf about pregnant women. But you DO love sending us that bill every month saying we owe you 30k for a surgery you wouldn’t do for 5 days of me coming in and puking in sick bags in front of yall. (Not you specifically but doctors) you’re all becoming lazy and money hungry. You’re killing people and still charging the families I bet. How much does her family owe the hospital for killing her?
Congressman Todd Akin, stated that SA victims couldn't get pregnant. In states with abortion restructions, 65,000 SA victims became pregnant. A life time of punishment for the victim.
If an entire team of doctors is completely unhinged, their needs to be huge reforms in healthcare. Stop saying that it’s an unexplainable accident while your billing companies go after all the little people like we are criminals. Healthcare is a scam.
even after 2 children, 3 pregnancies, my tubes tied and menopause setting in; I am still literally terrified of getting pregnant again, and this election has made it all the more horrifying.
The fact that they could have saved her but weren't allowed is what's actually fucked. They aren't saving lives, they are destroying lives with these laws
I have a really good OBGYN! I was diagnosed with endometriosis this year. I had some internal bleeding. And my bow was flipped the wrong way. about 3 months after finding out I had a full-blown hysterectomy and fixed my bowel and I stopped peeing blood. She did not make me go through a DNC or unnecessary medicine for treatments she just fixed the problem.
I'm never saying its the doctors fault. The doctors are doing what they can do (most of the time). Not losing their job and losing their whatever its called that you can still work as a doctor. I understand doctors not providing the needed health care because laws tell them not to. They are human beings, wanting to stay in der field of work. Wanting to provide for themselves and their family. Even wanting to help others. How can someone work as a doctor to help others when he isnt allowed anymore? Its a decision to sacrifice one person in order to try to save others. That's why the law is 100% at fault. There should NEVER be a "lets consult a laywer first" when needing to save someones life. There should NEVER be waiting with health care because a miracle could happen. Miracles dont happen. When a fetus starts to rot and starts to kill their host/mother, it needs to go NOW and NOT later. We arent fighting for pro-choice because we want a weird way of contraceptions. We are fighting for pro-choice to save those women who need abortions to survive, sooner than later. Its so sad to see what's happening in the US. And it's sad to know that it may happen everywhere in the world.
If the pregnancy is less than 22-24 weeks along, the baby will die, full stop. In Amber Thurman's case, the baby was already dead. She was still denied the d&c she needed until she was too sick and died on the operating table.
@@LulaMae21 if the baby was already dead, there should’ve been no reason not to do a d&c. If the baby was still alive, they could’ve induced labor. If there wasn’t enough time to induce labor, they could’ve done an emergency c section that takes all of 15 mins
Also, why are we discussing a patient’s care when no one has her chart in front of them? No one in the media or no one here on YT knows exactly what went on/the specific details of this tragic case. It doesn’t seem professional for a doctor to discuss a patient’s case in which they don’t have their chart.
I know the problem isn't the doctors. But the medical association can stand up to the lawmakers and tell them the doctors will do what they deem medically necessary for their patients without fear of doing so. The doctors will continue with their oath of Do No Harm. If the law comes after any doctor and their team for providing necessary medical procedures to save their patients, the Medical Association will stand behind the doctors and support team with their lawyers.
She died as a side effect of the abortion pill. If the twin babies she was trying to expel were already dead when she presented at the hospital, then under Georgia law, any care she received would not be considered an abortion as, by legal definition in Georgia, an abortion causes the death of a pre-born child. If the babies had been wanted and she had presented with a threatened miscarriage, steps would be taken to try to save both the mother and her babies. There was no point where the deliberate killing of the babies would have been the necessary treatment. Anti-abortion law is being used as a scapegoat, and blasting this case is fear-mongering. We should all be appalled that a mother was sent home with pills to abort her twins.
Are people out there blaming the doctor(s)? For frak's sake! Did these folks never have multiple medical bills from the variety of providers involved in any semi-complex procedures?
Personally, I feel bad for the doctors involved in these situations because the laws in many of these states are so ambiguous that their hands are tied. They also list requirements that prolong appropriate care and they have to go through that list and check each box if they wanna keep their jobs, which I can’t blame them for. I can and will, however, blame the politicians who have no medical expertise to speak of & who are making these laws & decisions regardless of what’s recommended by actual doctors.
and if doctors dont care for their patients because of a new law then they dont deserve to be doctors. if everyone kept doing the right thing the law and the hospitals wouldnt be able to do anything about it. they wouldnt be allowed to fire them all. start holding people accountable for choosing to be inhumane because they were told they have to be. it doesnt matter if its “just a job” these doctors are still CHOOSING to be as heartless as the law. they are CHOOSING to not care about the health of their patients out of their own fear. this is how the world goes to hell. people refuse to do whats right because THEIR jOB ToLd ThEm ThEy CoUlDnT if there was a law to go hit people with your car, would you do it because its required? or would you step back and ask “wtf” and refuse to follow along?
2) A lot of abortion bans include criminal prosecution and incarceration for doctors who perform an abortion. You’re demanding that doctors risk their medical license, livelihood, and liberty; that’s insane. The problem is the abortion bans, not the medical professionals.
I mean...I may not be hearing it because this is a short ..but it sounds like you're saying it's not the doctors responsibility to keep a woman alive due to fear or personal beliefs. It's not okay to go against your oath. I am so lucky I miscarried just before the ban in my state or I could be dead.
This was not a case of whether or not an abortion was medically necessary. The hospital was not asked to perform an abortion. The abortion laws did not apply. There was no living fetus involved, just dead tissue.
Per my other replies-your assertion is incorrect. Georgia’s abortion ban permitted removal of dead fetal tissue that resulted from a *spontaneous* abortion. Ms. Thurman’s abortion was induced (via meds), not spontaneous, so GA’s abortion ban exception did not apply.
@@mamadragonful Abortion is a medical procedure which is why I provided the medical definition, which is the only one that should exist or apply. That’s literally the point, cupcake.
Say it with me folks...
"This is what happens when legislators are allowed to practice medicine without a liscence! And govern without a brain nor a heart!" 🤬
We charge people who pretend to be doctors and practice medicine without a medical license yes?
So why aren’t we charging these used car salesmen for practicing medicine without a medical license?
Where’s the logic when it comes to them creating laws without any medical knowledge?
You're right! We should get rid of:
The Affordable Care Act (ACA)
Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA)
Medicare Act (Title XVIII of the Social Security Act)
Medicaid Act (Title XIX of the Social Security Act)
Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act (EMTALA)
Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIP)
Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (FDCA)
Controlled Substances Act (CSA)
Public Health Service Act (PHSA)
Employee Retirement Income Security Act (ERISA)
Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act (COBRA)
Family and Medical Leave Act (FMLA)
Health Maintenance Organization Act (HMO Act)
Patient Safety and Quality Improvement Act (PSQIA)
Stark Law (Physician Self-Referral Law)
Glad you agree :)
They even have any organs.
Yep, I believe you are right.
@@gypsyrobinno, well I don't.
It’s heartbreaking to hear about Amber’s case and how she lost her life because she couldn’t access the medical help she desperately needed. As an OBGYN in Malaysia, I find it shocking that such a situation could arise in a healthcare system as advanced as the US. This highlights how restrictive laws, like abortion bans in certain areas, can endanger women’s lives. Women deserve access to life-saving care, and it’s devastating to think of the lives that could be lost under such systems. My heart goes out to Amber’s family and all those affected by such preventable tragedies.
Maybe don't be "shocked"
It's only going to get worse in the next four years 🤦🏻♀️
It's what you get when you get a nation that got more religion than brains.
The US healthcare system isn't advanced in any way except technology. People die because they can't afford insulin. Nearly everyone I know has a story of a situation in which someone didn't get timely care. A friend of mine died that way. The US healthcare system is rampant with preventable deaths.
@@mamadragonful What’s your point?
I don't blame the doctors & nurses. I blame the politicians that are clueless about how a woman's body works and even less about pregnancy.
And who somehow feel qualified to speak on any one of these matters instead of deferring to the experts. (100% agreed.)
Remember none of this would happen if men gave birth.
Exactly. I get why Dr jones is saying this because we do tend to forget how many people are involved but I don’t think many people are blaming them. It’s absolutely the politicians and losers voting for them. Even the healthcare professionals who aren’t pro choice still would probably do it. Maybe not. But they aren’t many anyway.
You don't need to be a rocket scientist to understand creation
@@Mama_Bear524 Sadly, some people do blame medical personnel. They say things like, "If that had been my wife [who died] I would've forced the doctor to treat her." Those people are ignorant on the issue. They think the useless "to save the life of the mother" line in the text of the law means something.
Anyone who didn’t foresee this (abortion bans killing women) either knows nothing about the law or nothing about medicine.
@GogiRegion True statement. We had this conversation back in the 60's & 70's. Roe vs Wade was enacted for a reason.
Saddest part is that doctors and experts testified to legislators and they STILL did it.
And/or they don't care.
@@Tiffiany 💯🎯😢🤬
Or anything about female reproductive anatomy and physiology, nor anything about women in general.
It’s really frustrating hearing people believe that somehow this is a doctor or hospital failure. We knew this kind of thing would happen. We should not be treating doctors like criminals for doing their jobs. I feel like everyone has collectively lost their minds.
yeah my (ex-)best friend said the same thing when i told her about the women who have already died because of abortion bans. "well that doctor should lose their license, do no harm, blah blah blah." that doctor, and the team they worked with, would not have been in a position to make that decision if not for these pointless and ignorant bans!
I just read a comment this morning by yet another person saying this. They won't accept facts!
And Doctors are in the position they could have lost their license if they do something, and someone down the line said it wasn't necessary. Damned if they do damned if they don't.
CO-LLECTIVELY!! absolutely bonkers 😩
Exactly. And if all the ObGyns end up in prison, there will be no one to provide care even if we can get the laws changed. Doctors take a long time and lots of resources to train. They're hard and slow to replace. Doctors are people as much as the patients are. The doctors should be protected too.
What's crazy is that recently i joined some dog groups and when ever theres a post about an accidental dog pregnancy these people with with prolife profile pictures are the first ones to recommend an abortion with a spay surgery. I dont understand the thought process of dogs having better access to abortion than humans
I've literally never heard of dog abortion what
@@StonedtotheBones13 it's a standard procedure if the dog's pregnancy was unplanned/unwanted
That's because according to them animals are soo below humans, they don't have souls and are essentially property that just happen to be alive.
Dogs already listen to them and do what they want. Human women are not as easy to control and therefore need more drastic measures put upon them. That's what it's about.
I had an ex (college era) who thought it was wrong that when I spayed my cat, it was also a “kitty abortion.” I was stunned. I mean, I’m putting myself through college. I can afford ONE cat (and barely) not five or so…
Like, the same rationale that drove my choices when family planning.🙄
There were 8-9 people in the operating room for my D&C.
I almost died. The 1.5 hour procedure lasted nearly 5 hours.
I was told that if I had opted for the "pills" for my missed miscarriage, I would have likely perished from exsanguination (sp?).
If my doctor had not been able to help me... Well, to put it quite simply, I would not be here.
I'm sorry you went through that. I don't know you, but I'm glad you're here.
You spelled exsanguination correctly.
@@juliachatwin3907 Thanks. I guess I doubted myself when I saw the lovely red line under the word. But, that happens quite often when the algorithm is not accustomed to the word.
@@EclecticGreyWitch Thank you. I'm kinda glad I'm here as well.
That is absolutely horrifying, I'm so glad you're alive 💙
And nobody should be shocked by any of this because we can look at Ireland- a far more deeply catholic country than us- and see that they began allowing abortion again but only after there was a horrific enough maternal death for everyone to rally around. But a lot of the same people that don't want to think critically about the application of their beliefs (or how they affect others in the real world) are the same people who don't pay attention to anything happening outside of America. So here we are.
Only medical doctors should be making these decisions (in conjunction with their patient). The only legislation that should be allowed in a medical care facility is the legislation that ensures that doctors and nurses have the necessary training and qualifications to make the decisions they need to make in order to keep/make patients safe and healthy. Beyond that, they need to get the hell out and let the trained medical staff do their jobs.
Only medical doctors know anything about "morality? Right...
@@AaAa-v1c2x "Pro-life" people don't know anything about morality. The methods they use to try to propagandize people to their side are completely immoral.
@@AaAa-v1c2x says the person who thinks is ok for women and the fetus to die. But yeah, that's moral
I said it's ok for a _baby_ and a mother to die? I never said that
@@AaAa-v1c2x No, but only medical doctors know what is medically safe and feasible for their patients, including timelines for when certain procedures can and must take place to ensure the best outcome for everyone. Meanwhile certain lawmakers who are policing medical doctors still think that "an ectopic pregnancy could be removed and re-implanted in the right place and that fixes everything yay why didn't the doctor think of that I'm so much smrter than the doctor yay me".
.
Abortion is healthcare. The end. It is so messed up to put providers and patients in the situation where they can’t provide the evidence-based standard of care because of stupid laws written by people who aren’t qualified to make those decisions.
Spot On. It's ridiculous it's even a debate.
Agreed. Politicians not being qualified medically trained board certified licensed doctors should not impose their personal beliefs/agendas towards patients when they need that healthcare.
Yes! It's like the war on drugs, only pushes to the blackmarket & becomes unregulated. If you don't take in something a large chunk of the population are going to do either way, it turns into a great unregulated black market commodity for assholes to make $ of misery
Oh darling... The abortions that ARE about healthcare already are legal. But most cases THE MOTHERS are the one not wanting to abort their babies.
You and other people are just wanting to abort anything to not use protection
@@wildestsquirrelwildestsqui5020 do you honestly believe that women are really not choosing to spend $10 on a box of condoms or $50 on a month supply of the pill and are instead choosing to spend $500 on an abortion everytime?
Also even if all the personnel were on board, hospital and network policy have to be followed; you can bet that those entities are going to drag their feet and try to protect themselves legally, rather than risk anything for patient care.
I'm truly relieved that due to illness, my uterus had to be removed.
I truly feel for the younger generations and the Dr's who care for them.
Darling there won't be young people if there are no babies
@@AaAa-v1c2xYou’re an idiot
@@AaAa-v1c2x There won't be any if they die in the process of trying to have babies, either.
@@AaAa-v1c2xThere are young children being forced to risk being killed by their states via childbirth. Several have been forced to give* birth already. Why do you think forcing children to be mommies is ok? Do you think it’s moral to force little 10 year old Susie to die giving birth to a baby that’s gonna die anyway?
@@AaAa-v1c2xthere won’t be any babies if children and teens are forced to give birth before they are safely able to carry and give birth
Way back around 1968 my mom got pregnant with an IUD. Something went wrong big time don’t know what happened, but Mom was in the hospital for about a week and my grandmother flew in to help.
Thankfully, there were no questions or finger pointing but my Dad got a vasectomy that week. Mom had said her uterus was “funny” (she had a accident as a child) never got a good explanation and they didn’t think she could get pregnant, but she had the two of us. And we were living in Texas, wow hard to believe (and terribly horrific) that a women’s reproductive health was better treated in 1968 in an Army hospital that 2024. Glad I hit menopause, and terrified for my son and his future whomever.
My uterus is also funny. Found out when I got pregnant. Was told that I could not carry to term and survive. I asked to have a termination, but the doctor said they could only do it in life threatening emergencies. I was then handed prenatal vitamins and that was the end of the appointment. This was in 2005. Thankfully, I got the termination at another clinic in Alaska.
We were on a slipperly slope 20 years ago, but now it is just made worse. I was lucky that my clinic was just down the street. I can't imagine having to fly across the country just to get a medical procedure to save my life.
It's crazy that the description "not carry to term and survive" isn't ALREADY considered an emergency the moment that's determined.
Hard to believe that somehow you are alive? Wtf?
@ Lucky?
Some confusion sorry, my sister and I were already on the scene so to speak, had been for a few years. I kind of remember her being in the hospital cuz Granny was there and won’t let me watch a Elvis movie on TV. Luckily Mom had us early because she ended having a lot of “women problems” and ended up with a hysterectomy at 36.
This is why medical emergency exceptions don't work. The line of necessary vs unnecessary isn't easy to know while the patient is alive, and the rules are not well constructed enough to avoid a gray area in the critical stages
This! Also, waiting until things are black and white instead of a gray area means that the patient is in worse condition when starting an intervention, increasing the risk of negative outcomes or complications. Even if the patient lives, they might have a more difficult recovery and some irreversible damage caused by waiting until the last possible moment to intervene.
@kathilisi3019 yep yep yep.
Just a quick question. Why aren't insurance companies stepping up in this fight? It costs WAY less to get a few pills, or do a D&C, than to treat someone that went into shock and nearly died from sepsis. It is also WAY less than paying for prenatal care and the delivery of a still-born fetus. You would think they would be pro-abortion solely as a cost saving measure.
@cggc9510
Seems like health insurance companies love it when patients get expensive care, because while they may cover a part of the cost, it's on the patients to pay the rest.
Also, hospitals love to bill insurance companies out the @ss so if they can do more costly procedures that benefits them as well.
Patient outcomes are not too much of a concern when corporations put profits over people.
@@Cuddly-CactusAlso, the politicians who support banning women's healthcare are the same politicians working to dismantle the ACA, create even more tax breaks for big corporations like health insurance companies, etc. Getting rid of the ACA alone means far more people who need emergency care will be uninsured (and therefore their hail Mary care will paid for by tax payers).
Yeah, what cuddly cactus said. Insurance companies only dislike expensive procedures when they have to pay for them. Some insurance companies incentivize particular diagnoses/treatments, like how the privatized medicaid/medicare republicans are pushing for actually costs taxpayers more, because it incentivizes doctors to give unnecessary expensive treatment to increase its profit margins.
Most (All? I'm hesitant to say all, that can't be true) insurance plans have an Out Of Pocket Maximum though
@@sarah.s.flanagan yep. My parents plan (back when I was still on it, IDK about now) hit the out of pocket max in February most years. So everything in network was just free. So they were paying a lot for two chronically ill people (my meds alone are like $56k/year full price).
medlifecrisis did a video a while back talking about how the difference between a patient dying and not can be near impossible to call, he's a cardiac surgeon and used the example of two similar patients he was doing similar heart surgery on and said until they try to restart the heart etc (can't remember the terminology/details of complex heart surgery 😂sorry) he can't guess whether it will succeed or not. He was asking where do we draw the line between living and dead, both patients were there on his operating table without a pulse and one would go back to their full life, while the other would pass on the table, and again while he was operating he really couldn't guess what the outcome would be.
how are doctors supposed to 'know' when sepsis/blood loss etc becomes life threatening enough?
medicine can be really complex with grey areas and blurred lines with patients reacting differently to conditions and interventions- asking doctors and other clinicians to make black and white decisions in an area full of shades of grey is going to kill people.
Maybe most people would survive loosing x litres of blood . . . but the patient in front of them has an undiagnosed heart issue that they'll only find out about at the autopsy
Wait...sepsis is life threatening inherentely. It doesn't become life threatening, it just is..a life threatening emergency.
@@bonjovi2792 What? I just choose a hypothetical, MDJ has talked about blood loss before and how patients seem to compensate for it really well until they don't. Didn't realise a poor woman had already made the news with something like that.
and a D&C is an abortion procedure
@@claire2088 there are at least two direct cases in Georgia that I know about. I am sure there are plenty in other states we don't have full details onnl yet.
A baby dying is also horrible
@@AaAa-v1c2x A pre-viability fetus will die regardless in many of these cases.
When a boyfriend in a viral meme asks why there are left and right tampons, it is funny.
It becomes less funny when people with that amount of education are in power over your body, fertility and life.
I didn't know they control your irresponsible choices
@AaAa-v1c2x it took 21 minutes to attract a prime specimen of the people I was talking about. Let's see how many we can get :D
@@AaAa-v1c2x A significant number of women who seek abortion are married women with children.
I know it's hard to understand when you have no relevant experience.
@xemirahobbyless
They're just a sub human troll. Report their comments as misinformation, spam, or hateful, and move on.
Significant what? How many do you even know that are married and since when isn't it mostly promisious people whonhave sex when their not ready. Like what?
I’ve had two D&Cs. In 1979 & 1983ish. No anesthesia until I stood up in the stirrups and screamed at the nurses who were performing the procedure whereupon they knocked me out. I was told I didn’t need any because the uterus has no nerve endings. I got through the scrapping but the sponges were unbearable. But no medical professional should have to risk their license to provide the care their patient needs.
That sounds barbaric wth
TMI
@@jskyler7you’re on a gynaecologist pregnancy period channel, if this is TMI then I think you need to go somewhere else to a different channel
Politics and religion have no place whatsoever in what a women decides with her healthcare professionals on choices she makes with her own body.
Sounds to me like the problem is the law.
The misinformed people who vote for politicians with no medical training is where I put my blame. I am in upstate SC and these people are only as good as the misinformation that their "news" sources pours into them. They literally don't know what an abortion REALLY is or how it will affect them.
You don't need medical training to have a moral raidar? You love death don't you
Ya most aren’t blaming doctors. We’re blaming the politicians and idiots voting for them (especially the women!)
Sound like morally apprehensible choices.
@@AaAa-v1c2x You're so right, it's definitely REPREHENSIBLE for a doctor to have to choose between their medical license and saving their patient! I'm sure that's what you meant :)
If a dr or nurse refuses to do their job because of personal biases or beliefs, then they need a different job.
Your personal beliefs should only dictate your life, not everyone around you. The people who deny filling a prescription for BC because of their religion are not doing the duties of their job. Do your job or get fired.
100
You're absolutely right!
My mom had to have her uterus scraped because cells were found that were prestage of cancer. My siblings and I were teenagers, so an invasive procedure to the uterus to avoid possible cancer was a no brainer. She went to the hospital, had the procedure done and stayed for the night to control bleeding and manage pain and was released midday the next day. The nurse she had on the second day was astoundingly nasty, didn't give her the prescribed pain medication, gave her dirty looks over breakfast, was rude when caring for the wound.
My mom asked her about it and she replied: "Although it's apparently legal I don't condone behaviour of women like you."
My mom was flabbergasted and thought the lady knew her from her political and social activities and was unprofessional enough to oppose these through lack of work on my mom.
It took her hours to count one and one together and grasp that this nurse thought she had had an abortion.
Just imagine having one of THOSE nurses in your ward while abortions are illegal. Any procedure similar to those who may end pregnancies would be reported to the police by such a selfrighteous woman.
The US have already seen nurses report miscarriages as "suspected home abortions" with the miscarrying mom being arrested. No doctor would attempt anything in this radical climate without prior written consent by the administration and ethics committee. And that's why women die.
But that's exactly what right wing politicians and selfrighteous nurses and family values voters wanted. Family first, women second. So, that's what we got.
Ok I agree with you fully but I also have very little faith in Georgia doctors at this point in general 😅 I live here and the horror stories you hear about doctors refusing patients wishes during pregnancy/labor for reasons not related to hospital policy or best medical practices are pretty bad. My husbands first day doing nurse clinicals, he witnessed a very botched delivery because the doctor refused the patient wishes and she lost her uterus and almost her life- yes this is just one story but I’ve heard dozens at this point, both from people directly and online. So obviously your point still stands and we shouldn’t make assumptions, but lots of doctors here let their religious beliefs or personal biases color their work and it’s really kind of terrifying for pregnant patients.
The saddest part is now the law in some states/parts of the world supports (rather than censures) the arrogant fools who provide bad care.
I am not disagreeing but admit ignorance. Can you give an example of laws that support doctors who do this kind of malpractice due to bias? Does it have to do with being able to refuse to do things out of religious belief or what?
My first thought is how lots of doctors are allowed to refuse to perform hysterectomies on child-bearing-age women who decisively never want biological children.
@@colleenwilliams1689 Specifically, I was referring to how abortion bans end up banning life saving interventions during pregnancy and birth. You brought up a good example of how some states allow physicians, pharmacists, nurses, and private employers (like Hobby Lobby) to ignore standards of care and just refuse treatment based on religious convictions -- wether that is a pharmaceutical or a procedure. Refusal to perform sterilizations like bilateral salpingectomy, and refusing to provide birth control are top of mind.
I'm not in Georgia but "sincerely held religious beliefs" is my guess as well
I think what’s important to understand though is that these kinds of doctors will be emboldened by these laws while better doctors will be criminalized.
That is why "concience objection" should not be a thing. If a doctor is not willing or capable of giving medical attention, then they must be obligated to derive you to someone capable and willing.
Healthcare decisions should NEVER be in the hands of politicians, Supreme Court justices, or voters. Healthcare decisions should only ever be between a patient and their doctor.
I will never forget the time I was called to administer methotrexate to a patient with an ectopic pregnancy. It took me a little while to get to the patient (I was the only chemo certified nurse in the house that night and I had my own team). By the time I got to the floor, I could not give the methotrexate to the patient, because a associate had requested an ethics consult because they didn’t think that we should be performing abortions at a catholic hospital. That patient was in a lot of pain and had to wait till the next day for an ethics consult to meet. Thankfully, she was given the methotrexate the following day. But I cannot believe the level of stupid that happenedbeforehand. I later found out. It was a nurse that requested the ethics consult. I don’t have words to express how stupid it is to think that we should just let the mother die rather than administer a lifesaving abortion.
Yep, especially for a guaranteed nonviable pregnancy. That's just sickening.
Wow, I hope that nurse got schooled. How ignorant to protest against life-saving treatment for the mother when the ectopic pregnancy had no chance to produce life in the first place. They can't claim to be pro-life when they're advocating for two deaths instead of one. (Or none, if you don't count a non-viable pregnancy.)
these laws are pretty much a trial by water by proxy. if the patient dies (drowns), then the obstetrician is not a witch for asking the hospital lawyer if they can perform the D&C. if the patient lives (floats), then the obstetrician might be a witch for asking the hospital lawyer if they can perform the D&C. in this analogy, the hospital lawyer is not the judge-they’re the person that the obstetrician is trying to cast a spell on or mislead with their witchy ways. the judge is the state, no patient gets the D&C, and the patients who survive probably have some sort of injury anyway.
Yep. I've seen some forced birthers claim that if you have an abortion and live that the abortion wasn't necessary "because you lived so clearly your life wasn't in danger". Like no, that's not how it works.
I live in a country where abortion is still legal, but I still have ptsd from doctors not respecting my wishes during birth. Birth trauma is real, and yeah, it's the doctors.
I’m sorry that’s happened to you, but that’s not what happened in this case, and not what she’s referring to at all.
@Shayron1989 How could you possibly know that without knowing what happened? You are making a lot of unwelcome assumptions. I like this, Dr. and I follow her, and I'm sure it's not her, but it absolutely is a lot of Dr's who are the problem. My situation absolutely does relate to this, but you wouldn't know that because I didn't share. I also almost died for these reasons.
@@JenniferJohnson-ub3gt what you went through is horrifying and never should have happened. But your experience in no way negates the fact that the laws being discussed _are killing people._
@sarahblack9333 I agree that the laws are killing people. It's both. It's misogyny within the medical system towards women and evil laws. What about my post gave you the impression that I would ever agree with anti pro choice laws? Absolutely nothing I said points to that. I'm as pro choice as they come. Again, I think you are assuming things without evidence.
Yes, the laws are killing people. TH-cam keeps deleting my replies. I am as pro choice as they come. Nothing in my comment says that I disagree. Again, assumptions. Misogyny in medicine also kills people. Doctors also kill people.
Even if it was due to a doctor's personal beliefs. It's still an issue with the law! The law used to force personal an religious beliefs to be separate from everything else. Businesses and medical institutions included. We now have laws in some areas that allow people to straight up deny services, even emergency ones, if it doesn't align with their beliefs. As well as clinics that are literally just religious institutions trying to practice medicine.
No your just saying that cuz you have a. problem with saving lives of uborn
@AaAa-v1c2x Pro-fetus isn't pro-life.
@@AaAa-v1c2x Your grammar is so bad I doubt you even live in the US.
@@AaAa-v1c2xLame
@@AaAa-v1c2x So you want to "save lives" but not if they become a felon, right? Not if they're born into poverty and their family can't afford food or healthcare? Not if they're queer or trans? You want to "save lives" but you don't want to provide birth control or sex education that lowers rates of unintended pregnancies, right? You can't have it both ways. If you're pro-life, you're anti-death penalty, pro-social services, pro-sex education, pro-free and accessible birth control, pro-LGBTQIA+, otherwise you're a horrifying hypocrite.
Gotta love when politicians practice medicine without a license lmao
The tragedy is this exact scenario was spelled out as inevitable by prochoice campaigners, because this inevitably happens in every country that has restrictive abortion laws. The people responsible for overturning the laws are directly responsible for this young lady’s death and should be held accountable (and we know they never will).
The problem is the whole broken system, not the individuals trapped in it.
100% expected consequences of these laws. Get the government out of healthcare, out of religion, out of identity and culture-NOW!!!!!! YOU RUN A COUNTRY'S GOVERNMENT. NOT A COUNTRY! YOU REPRESENT THE PEOPLE. NOT CONTROL THEM!
Guys, I had to yell at my 25 year old nephew about how dangerous these laws are. He said women aren’t dying. 😡. It’s so disheartening man. Women are dying! If these laws were passed when I was having my babies i might’ve died. My mom had an abortion in the 60s in a seedy motel. She could’ve died. Ffs. I’m so upset. And I’m Canadian!! Our rights can be taken away too. They weren’t always here. I hate this for us so much.
Seems you only cry about woman and not the babies lol
How are government officials and politicians allowed to practice medicine without a license and without knowing how to preform the medicine procedures in question?!?
Why aren’t more people being sued for practicing medicine without a license and making the decision for the patient without knowing the medical history or facts of the procedure that the patient needs?!?
Even before all of this stuff they didn't always do a D&C. I almost died over 16 years ago. I had a miscarriage but everything didn't come out and I was bleeding internally. They didn't know until I got super sick. Then they finally rushed me into surgery
People cannot be expected to make the best decisions when choosing wrong will end their career. That is what the laws are designed to do, and that is exactly what they are doing. Even without laws like these, it's not always clear what will happen to a patient and how quickly
The GA law is very egregious. It states that if you even accidentally or unintentionally injure or cause death to an unborn child and that’s once cardiac activity starts in pregnancy you’re responsible for paying for their entire life in damages. Now I’m not sure if that’s for a full potential lifespan or not because that’s vague wording. Why would any provider want to touch a pregnant patient?! It’s section 4h of HB 481, and section 6 that talks about damages.
You are idiot
I will never blame anybody for not risking their means of earning money in order to save a person's life. People are crazy and their gratefulness is severely limited. They WILL sue if they can. Either the patients themselves or some relative/ friend/ neighbour/ bystander... Never risk your license or your lifelyhood for somebody else.
This reminds me of the time when I got in a car accident and broke my ribs. The roads were slick that day and I was giving my boyfriend directions. I forgot to tell him the right exit and I didn't want to tell him at the last minute for him to suddenly merge in those poor road conditions. That led to the GPS rerouting us onto a backroad. That backroad hadn't been plowed yet, the car completely lost traction, and we went head first into a tree. In hindsight, should I have told him to get over quick and maybe we would have been safe? Maybe. I sometimes thought that. But I had to quickly make a judgement call with the information that I had at the time. And what I knew is that cutting across traffic in the snow is dangerous
If I was a doctor in a red state I would be terrified to do that. It's not even just your license, it's your freedom at risk
and if you lose your license/end up in jail, what will all your other patients that rely on your care do? It's a terrifying situation for sure
@rusty_keys well unfortunately this has made doctors leave red states so there's just deserts for gynecological care. This is a catastrophe. I think about women that have some kind of cancer that lost their doctor. Just horrible
@@AuntieMamies it's truly such a loss for all the people who are the most vulnerable.
@rusty_keys it certainly is. Nobody is making a 5 hour drive out of state if they're going through chemo or something. I'd be interested in hearing the stories of women who's doctors have had to leave them in dire conditions as well
@@AuntieMamies exactly. I know someone who lives in a state with strict bans and he said the closest hospital to him with a labor and delivery unit is 5 hours away from him. So people are being forced to give birth in ERs that don't have the needed supplies. Want an epidural? Too bad, not an option. Have complications? Hope you can survive waiting for the helicopter and then the over hour flight to the nearest hospital that can help you.
If she died from sepsis due to her dead babies' remains staying inside of her body for too long after her abortion pills from another state killed them, then this is one more story of providers waiting too long to remove remains via D&C. I'd say they waited specifically because she used abortion medications, but I've seen stories of providers denying or delaying D&C after miscarriages too.
I have yet to see a single law related to abortion that should cause these providers to delay removing already deceased babies from their mother's bodies. Abortion bans or not, that is not the medical care in question in these circumstances. There's no moral debate about removing the remains.
This is a legislative issue, not a doctor/hospital issue. The bans are trying to legislate a health issue as if it were a morality issue.
I don’t blame the doctors or nurses. I blame the politicians 1000%.
Why did women vote against their own best interests? We should stand together, the men do! And don’t tell me it was the cost of groceries, certainly we are worth more than the cost of eggs. Next time a smart qualified woman is on the ballot,vote smart! If we ever get another chance.
I'm willing to train to be one of those people who helps. I'm not worried about the ramifications. I'm a warrior for reproductive freedom.
Thank you. Some people are worth melting for. I get it.
That's great. After multiple years of training to become a nurse or doctor, if the law doesn't allow for you to provide the care, you won't be able to find a clinic or hospital in which to practice. And if you do, by some miracle, you can be snatched up and sent to prison preventing you from helping anyone ever again. We need to support organizations like Women On Waves and other abortion access groups. We need to fight for above board justice, proper legislation and treatment.
I dont even understand why the hell @bortion illegal.. its the womens choice to bear or not to bear the child
No it's her choice to live with the consequences of her bad choices such as having sex outside wedlock and killing her own children
@@AaAa-v1c2x You think unmarried women are the only ones who seek abortion care? I bet you think you're reasonably intelligent, too. 😂
@@AaAa-v1c2x U sound like u just got out of a time machine from the 1400s. Marriage has nothing to do with it and abortions SAVE ppl. Here, let me show you around the 21st century.
@@AaAa-v1c2xLame
Look at these weirdos who want to punish -people- women for having consensual sex. Unhinged.
In addition you do not want to make it acceptable that doctors break the law because they don't agree with it.
That would open the floodgates of doctors prescribing ivermectine for treating Covid, treating cancer with quack medicines, using improperly tested drugs, etc.
What you are talking about is the difference between a doctor not being able to do a medical procedure that is done all the time, all over the world and a doctor telling someone to take a medication is not scientifically backed. Those are two very different things
@@ablthomas37exactly.
Those aren't laws though, those are at best off-label uses of prescriptions (which already happens with some regularity) and at worst fully incorrect or unresearched prescriptions
Thank you, @MamaDoctorJones.
And it wasn't just about potentially losing their medical licenses, it was about potentially going to jail if some officious official decided that the mother hadn't been near 'enough' to death to require medical intervention at that point. Restrictive states are losing obstetric experts because they don't want to be put in that position.
My partner and I have decided we want to have kids soon but I'm scared because if something goes wrong I might not be able to get the medical help I need.
I hope you can move to a state or country with adequate protection for women, and have the kids you want. Otherwise, I applaud you avoiding pregnancy. The risks are too great. The risks in ideal circumstances are already serious enough.
Please consider fostering/adopting. You help a child in need and no risks with pregnancy.
Another drama queen. Your "scared" ye right
@@AaAa-v1c2x for most of human history pregnancy was the #1 cause of death for women. There's good reason to be afraid of something going wrong and not being able to get the help you need to survive.
@xcristinat You suggest adoption and fostering. Considering the context of this video, it comes across as glossing over the risks to the gestational parent. Whoever is pregnant under these draconIan and backwards laws is at much greater risk of death and disability.
Danielle we Need you to be the head of
The Department of Health and Human Services!!!!!!!!!❤❤❤❤
Can you imagine how many changes for the good you could do!!!!!
And you can do it all by Zoom so you can stay with your family in New Zealand!!!!
I bet you are happy that you got away from this messed up country. I wish that I could. But I’m stuck here in the deep darkness.
This is very fair and explains the nuances. Excellent video.
It’s up to the head guys of the hospital that restrain the staff from risking legal action. The docs and nurses have to do what they are told or any legal action will be on them.
I think we tend to forget that most healthcare professionals work for corporations. Corporations that have policies, accepted practices and boards who make decisions. Decisions based on profits...
You think abortion agenda isn't an agenda
@@AaAa-v1c2x You think "pro-life" agenda isn't an agenda? 😂
@@AaAa-v1c2xLame
Nah i blame both 🤷🏻♀️
Why: bc something like gallbladder pain doesn’t get taken seriously so I can’t imagine yall actually gaf about pregnant women. But you DO love sending us that bill every month saying we owe you 30k for a surgery you wouldn’t do for 5 days of me coming in and puking in sick bags in front of yall. (Not you specifically but doctors) you’re all becoming lazy and money hungry. You’re killing people and still charging the families I bet. How much does her family owe the hospital for killing her?
The Dr’s aren’t the problem here. It’s the medical board of directors and the politicians practicing medicine without a license.
Congressman Todd Akin, stated that SA victims couldn't get pregnant.
In states with abortion restructions, 65,000 SA victims became pregnant.
A life time of punishment for the victim.
I have never blamed the doctors. I blame our government and ignorant people who vote ignorant criminals into office.
If an entire team of doctors is completely unhinged, their needs to be huge reforms in healthcare. Stop saying that it’s an unexplainable accident while your billing companies go after all the little people like we are criminals.
Healthcare is a scam.
even after 2 children, 3 pregnancies, my tubes tied and menopause setting in; I am still literally terrified of getting pregnant again, and this election has made it all the more horrifying.
Legal issues may enter into the decision, but I do NOT want my caretakers bringing their personal beliefs into my care.
A doctor and nurses shouldn't be allowed to put their personal feelings into it. They take an oath to care for people.
If they make a decision that makes them lose their job, that's a lot of people they're not going to be caring for in the future
The fact that they could have saved her but weren't allowed is what's actually fucked. They aren't saving lives, they are destroying lives with these laws
I have a really good OBGYN! I was diagnosed with endometriosis this year. I had some internal bleeding. And my bow was flipped the wrong way. about 3 months after finding out I had a full-blown hysterectomy and fixed my bowel and I stopped peeing blood. She did not make me go through a DNC or unnecessary medicine for treatments she just fixed the problem.
I'm never saying its the doctors fault. The doctors are doing what they can do (most of the time). Not losing their job and losing their whatever its called that you can still work as a doctor. I understand doctors not providing the needed health care because laws tell them not to. They are human beings, wanting to stay in der field of work. Wanting to provide for themselves and their family. Even wanting to help others. How can someone work as a doctor to help others when he isnt allowed anymore? Its a decision to sacrifice one person in order to try to save others.
That's why the law is 100% at fault. There should NEVER be a "lets consult a laywer first" when needing to save someones life. There should NEVER be waiting with health care because a miracle could happen. Miracles dont happen. When a fetus starts to rot and starts to kill their host/mother, it needs to go NOW and NOT later.
We arent fighting for pro-choice because we want a weird way of contraceptions. We are fighting for pro-choice to save those women who need abortions to survive, sooner than later. Its so sad to see what's happening in the US. And it's sad to know that it may happen everywhere in the world.
This isn't about healthcare. This is about control over women and producing enough humans to keep the corporate profit algorithms in a steady state.
This isn't the staff's fault at all.
Could they not do an emergency c section?
What of course not all they want to do is kill
@@AaAa-v1c2x The only people who "all they want to do is kill" are the so-called "pro-life" people, like you.
If the pregnancy is less than 22-24 weeks along, the baby will die, full stop. In Amber Thurman's case, the baby was already dead. She was still denied the d&c she needed until she was too sick and died on the operating table.
@@LulaMae21 if the baby was already dead, there should’ve been no reason not to do a d&c. If the baby was still alive, they could’ve induced labor. If there wasn’t enough time to induce labor, they could’ve done an emergency c section that takes all of 15 mins
Also, why are we discussing a patient’s care when no one has her chart in front of them? No one in the media or no one here on YT knows exactly what went on/the specific details of this tragic case. It doesn’t seem professional for a doctor to discuss a patient’s case in which they don’t have their chart.
The problem is the politicians ,not the doctors
Thank you for explaining this.
Most women need a D&C sometime in their lives (NOT FOR AN ABORTION) this is women's healthcare.
I do appreciate your content. Very helpful info. I think it’s like a dog getting to choose the vacation because the dog Sometimes rides in the car.
I know the problem isn't the doctors. But the medical association can stand up to the lawmakers and tell them the doctors will do what they deem medically necessary for their patients without fear of doing so. The doctors will continue with their oath of Do No Harm. If the law comes after any doctor and their team for providing necessary medical procedures to save their patients, the Medical Association will stand behind the doctors and support team with their lawyers.
And this is why hospital legal teams are saying when abortion is a possible option, opt for not doing the abortion.
So do medical professionals not make a Hippocratic Oath anymore?
Ive seen other women die who needed this procedure and the baby had definitely passed. This shouldnt be happening
She died as a side effect of the abortion pill. If the twin babies she was trying to expel were already dead when she presented at the hospital, then under Georgia law, any care she received would not be considered an abortion as, by legal definition in Georgia, an abortion causes the death of a pre-born child. If the babies had been wanted and she had presented with a threatened miscarriage, steps would be taken to try to save both the mother and her babies. There was no point where the deliberate killing of the babies would have been the necessary treatment. Anti-abortion law is being used as a scapegoat, and blasting this case is fear-mongering. We should all be appalled that a mother was sent home with pills to abort her twins.
Are people out there blaming the doctor(s)? For frak's sake! Did these folks never have multiple medical bills from the variety of providers involved in any semi-complex procedures?
Is there a way to ask you a question on here
I dont blame the doctor's i blame the people who vote. They feel the need to control everything around them, so they vote in ways that reflect that.
Its really not the doctors, it’s the law….
I understand a bill was just introduced in Texas to unfuck this. Fingers crossed.
Personally, I feel bad for the doctors involved in these situations because the laws in many of these states are so ambiguous that their hands are tied. They also list requirements that prolong appropriate care and they have to go through that list and check each box if they wanna keep their jobs, which I can’t blame them for. I can and will, however, blame the politicians who have no medical expertise to speak of & who are making these laws & decisions regardless of what’s recommended by actual doctors.
Why are you making excuses? The law doesn't work in practice when confronted with a patient in a real life situation.
Commenting to boost visibility 👏
THE PROBLEM IS THE LAWS!!!
and if doctors dont care for their patients because of a new law then they dont deserve to be doctors. if everyone kept doing the right thing the law and the hospitals wouldnt be able to do anything about it.
they wouldnt be allowed to fire them all.
start holding people accountable for choosing to be inhumane because they were told they have to be.
it doesnt matter if its “just a job” these doctors are still CHOOSING to be as heartless as the law. they are CHOOSING to not care about the health of their patients out of their own fear.
this is how the world goes to hell. people refuse to do whats right because THEIR jOB ToLd ThEm ThEy CoUlDnT
if there was a law to go hit people with your car, would you do it because its required? or would you step back and ask “wtf” and refuse to follow along?
1) Watch this incredibly short video. It explains why what you’re demanding is impossible.
2) A lot of abortion bans include criminal prosecution and incarceration for doctors who perform an abortion. You’re demanding that doctors risk their medical license, livelihood, and liberty; that’s insane. The problem is the abortion bans, not the medical professionals.
I mean...I may not be hearing it because this is a short ..but it sounds like you're saying it's not the doctors responsibility to keep a woman alive due to fear or personal beliefs. It's not okay to go against your oath. I am so lucky I miscarried just before the ban in my state or I could be dead.
I apologize what is a D&C?
So who do they need to sue?
There is no gray area. What are you saying? It saves a woman's life or it doesn't.
This was not a case of whether or not an abortion was medically necessary. The hospital was not asked to perform an abortion. The abortion laws did not apply. There was no living fetus involved, just dead tissue.
Per my other replies-your assertion is incorrect. Georgia’s abortion ban permitted removal of dead fetal tissue that resulted from a *spontaneous* abortion. Ms. Thurman’s abortion was induced (via meds), not spontaneous, so GA’s abortion ban exception did not apply.
Additionally, removal of dead fetal tissue is always an abortion because an abortion is the termination of a *pregnancy* - not embryo or fetus.
@alexwyatt2911 Georgia's abortion ban permits any and all actions required to save a woman's life. Read the whole law.
@@alexwyatt2911 Abortion is defined in the law, and it is defined differently than your definition.
@@mamadragonful Abortion is a medical procedure which is why I provided the medical definition, which is the only one that should exist or apply. That’s literally the point, cupcake.
We're living in hell
You want us to refrain from holding people accountable. Girl your voice _betrays_ cognitive dissonance. You don't believe a word your saying.
You'll be seeing alot more of that
*sigh*
😢😢😢
I don’t know how the us puts up with this shit. I’m so happy I live in Australia 😅
Thank you for sharing but this is a nuanced situation for the doctors.
What do you mean "but"
Uh, she IS a doctor, in this field.