bridge4. I have a thought about this theory. Were men allowed to help dress women? I think, imo, that it's something he'd never do. He'd have been too young, and we've seen Lyanna dressed as a boy, and
Kerri McDonald I thought the same except not being properly knighted she wouldn’t have had a squire to do that. Who else would help her armor up for the tourney?
That's actually strangely comforting to me, because up until now, I've felt like Hodor was (out of sheer necessity, but still) *used* by Bran to hold that door and make it possible for Meera to escape with Bran and preserve the world's memories - that he was an innocent basically forced to give his life to save them - but if he LOVED Meera, it was as much his _own_ choice as it was Bran's, which changes his death from a horrible tragedy (Bran having to sacrifice Hodor) to an act of true heroism (Hodor giving his life to save the woman he loved).
That is a question, further more that piece of Bran would be in Hodor for years. Is that why Hodor was excited to see Meera the first time. Yes, yes, my mind is blown.
Tyler Sherwood thinking the same. From hodors point of view it was all a crazy dream up until he first saw Meara hence his excitement and joy to realise the cause of his affliction.
You are missing the time Travel Worg. Where hodor at the time of his death scarred hodor as a child. At that time he could of been influenced by Brans imprinted love for Mira as a child. Explaining why is so excited to see her in the beginning. He remembered his love for her form when he was mentally damaged by the timetravel worging. Hodors love for Mira is Brans love for Mira handed through time. A forever loop of loving her and dieing for her.
Also if you're to believe this theory to be true, Meera being the one who said "hold the door". Hodor spent most of his life only being able to repeat the last words he heard from the woman he loved. Turns out I wasn't emotionally ready for this video. :(
bran technically transferred these feelings to hodor when he was viewing the past so in reality bran just gave hodor those thoughts before he was even born technically bran has been loving meera for decades before his birth and hodor had these thoughts in his mind the rest of his life in the end bran had the thoughts first
Which is why it was important that Meera was the one to actually say “hold the door”...because he loved her. He wasn’t about to let those things tear apart the woman he loved. And THAT made me choke up all over again. Smh. Thx for that! Lol ❤️
I agree. Hodor needed to love her so he would do anything to save her a.k.a hold the door. This makes me think what if Bran being part of Hodor helped that love develop so he was ready to hold the door?
I think it's the opposite. He didn't hold the door because it was Meera saying it. He fell in love with Meera because as a child he heard her voice through Bran's warging. When Hodor actually meets Meera for the first time he is excited because it's the voice he had in his mind since he was Willis!
That...would actually make the “Hold the Door” thing so much more logical, and even more meaningful. Instead of it just being Bran’s warging like in the show, it could also be his love for Meera...or maybe *thats* why he holds the door! All for his love of Meera, going to that exact moment, a moment he has been preparing for and become so obsessed with that all he can say is what he will do for his love. “Hold the door” for her...shit, now I wan’t that to be real...you think G.R.R.M. just looks at all the theories and is like, “Ohh! I’mma use that!” Be a hell of a lot easier.
I'm pretty sure I mentioned in the next video that, even if this is true, we are going to find out in the books that bran forced hodor to hold that door (against his will) :*(
This might explain "Mad King Aerys" madness, if King Aerys warged into an unknown dragon that still existed in a far off place than his "burn them all!" would be the dragon in him wanting to kill everyone by burning them, King Aerys might have gone mad because he didn't realize the dragon was in him, this is from his history "Although his rule began benevolently, he succumbed to madness" anyone else agree with this?
No, because its been mentioned a few times that mental illness runs in the targaryian family. And they inbreed which would increase the odds. And he seems inspired by king henry
King Henry the 6th is believed to have had schizophrenia. www.henrysixth.com/?page_id=55 There has been more than one mad king. Again, inbreeding. Which is why I say the mad king is at least in part inspired by real life
I actually felt much better about it, not worse, because if this is true, then Hodor was not a simple innocent that Bran had to sacrifice to enable Meera and himself to escape (IMO the thing that made his death such a horrific tragedy, like Shireen's); he was a true *hero* who gave his life to save the woman he loved. I sincerely hope you're right, bridge4.
This actually made me wonder what the cost is for worging too much. Is it like Voldemort, where if you give your soul in bits and pieces - to things that will die before you - are you destined to die in pieces? Is Bran destined to be more and more detached because with each use of his power he expends a bit more of his soul/humanity? How much of Bran died with Hodor? ....this is waaay too deep for me, which way to the shallow end of the pool?
I would have been pissed but also kind impressed by the commitment. Oh man, I forgot about Bran crushing on Meera. Those days are far gone. I didn’t pause The Avengers to catch a cause of the feels.
Most of the theory channels post stuff like " Is (add name) secretly a Targaryen ?". Like , every theory is about someone being a Targaryen. But this channel does put a smile on my face. Great theories with very great evidence to back it up. Gg my dude Kev.
Thanks, Umar. I do prep a secret targ video last December tho and plan on finally editing it in a week or two. But I promise thats the only one I can think of :-P
This was great! I always thought that Hodor had a crush on Meera in the books. (In my best Gump voice... "I may not be a smart man, but I know what love is.") However, I never really thought about it at this level. But the best part is that if you take the scene from The Door... Meera is the one that gives Hodor his name.
Because Flora Colossi is an actual language(in the comics), even though most beings unfamiliar with the language can't translate it and it sounds the same to us. Hodor... Well, most likely do to his mental handicap is saying of 'Hodor' is as simple as that and he's not trying to say anything complex, so there's nothing to understand. However while 'slow', he can understand complexity so it is possible the communication centers of his brain are more damaged than the rest and he's unable to physically express it properly. Theoretically if inflections and such weren't random and he was still attempting to speak properly(after years of knowing that no one can understand him), perhaps his 'Hodor' could be translated as well. The former makes far more sense to me, but only Martin could say for sure.
@Quaid Except at least Thor and all other Guardians of the Galaxy can. Thor because he is Thor and Guardians because they have translators (?). Guardians have all reacted to Groot's potty mouth so they understand him at least to some degree if not the translators.
Hodor LOVED Lyana. So when a young strong beauty who looked and acted like Lyana showed up. Hodor fell in love all over again. Bran did not feel love until Hodor. Bran felt a child's crush. It was the love for Lyana placed on Meera that had Bran "Loving" Meera. Again it goes right back to Lyana. I think Lyana is GEORGES first love who broke his heart and played many men that Lyana is based on.
Georges first love. The women who broke his heart to be with another man. George writes about his own Heart break. I always thought lyanna was the worst women in the whole book. She caused so much pain because she was selfish. Georges first love. Yes Hodor loves Meera. I think that is the ONLY real love in the whole story. He saw Meera for what she was. If Hodor hadnt loved Lyanna and been broken hearted he would of never looked at Meera the way he did. I wish George would have Meera and Hodor end up together forever. REAL LOVE.
thebovineavenger I love this! But wouldnt Hodor's love for Meera be the worst kind of love? If Hodor really loved Lyanna, then he only loves Meera because she reminds him of someone else.
well, I think that Hodor still thinks of himself as a boy. When he got bran-ned he got stuck in that loop. So his love or admiration fro lyanna is transferrable to the likeness of meera. For all we know, he thinks meera is actually lyanna.
Mayhaps Hodors love for Meera is the reason why her voice was able to pierce Brans greensight and affect the past. A better question is, WHEN did Hodor fall in love with Meera? Its hard to believe that hearing hearing her command to "Hold the door!" everyday in the back of his mind didn't somehow leave a more lasting impression. Did he fall in love with her before ever meeting her?
The 1st time Bran wargs into Hodor is also the last time. When Bran was viewing the past with blood raven Hodor as a child spoke normally. It wasn't until Bran wargs the young Hodor in the past in order to simultaneously control Hodor in the future, thus sacrificing Hodor to save hisself. Bodor could have been made then as well the love Bran felt for the girl. Perhaps Hodor grew up loving a girl before she was born.
Take it one step further... Bran planted the love seed (god that sounds bad) in Hodor in the time-warg. Hodor loved Meera before she was even born because Bran already loved her when he started time-jumping. Thus, the love could actually be a paradox.
Also, depending on how much kid Hodor saw when he had that Bran-induced seizure that spurred his speech impediment, he may recognize Meera from those visions.
I'm with ya. because i implied that he understood the love story behind the tale of the knight of the laughing tree. but do you think he connected the dots when hearing this story? or before?
bridge4 i think it's when he hears the story itself (but one thing about it, the story of the knight and the tree as said refers to rheagar and lyanna (or leanna) but it was thought by most at that time that rheagar kidnapped and raped her.) (I'm also just beginning with the books, where I'm reading a song of ice and fire: game of thrones. So I'm not up on everything)
Well, one point. Hodor could've adopted Brian's live for Meera when he was first worged into as a child. Meera wasn't born yet, but Hodor would have seen this as destiny to meet this girl that he loved since before she was born.
It's pretty striking that it was Meera's words that 'turned' him into Hodor too. Whether he truly recognised her voice from his visit as a boy or if he just grew into the love naturally, it's a very neat connection for them. It would make the idea of the Mad King's "burn them all" tirade actually coming from present-Jaime's words another tight connection, which I think you alluded to in another video. Regardless, I like that Hodor was able to protect her. Heart=warmed
someone suggested that Hodor may have helped Lyanna put on her armor back at Harrenhal (cause it's hard to put on armor by yourself. best to use someone who can't speak if you want to keep it a secret. especially if you grew up and trust that someone =)
I think the love still generates from bran. (Spolier) Since bran warged into kid hodor, when Bran already had those feelings. Kid hordor had a piece of bran all along. Hodor grew up with a little bit of Bran in him, since he connected old and young hodor, those feelings transferred down. Which is why Hodor obeyed ned so much, like a son obeying a father
That hold the door scene still gave me goosebumps and shivers down my spine. That is probably the most engaging scene I have ever experienced where I felt such an emotional connection to a fictional character. Pure cinematic beauty and art.
The whole show is art. The sound dude Ramin jwadi is a wizard. And everyone involved in piecing it all together is awesome But yeah, I'm with ya. This is a powerful scene among powerful scenes. Pure art
Hodor loved her from one point on. When he changed and was rolling on the ground screaming Hodor as a boy. When this happened, he glimpsed the future Hodor, and the girl. Everything else you state supports it. Hodor was seeing her both through his adult form and child form. Then with the first connection with Hodor, bran in turn fell in love.
If the story with Hodor in the books is the same as the one in the show then, considering the time travel involved, Bran has been inside of Hodor long before Bran was even born. It's possible that whatever feelings Hodor initially displays for Meera come from the part of Bran that had been a part of him since that event. Great video!
But Hodor's feelings happen after Bran wargs him... Because he was warged as a child before Bran was ever born. So e feelings still could have come from Bran.
If, as it is a GRRM addition, Hodor came from "hold the door" from Meera through Bran, as Bran was then skinchanging into him in the past, technically Hodor had just been carrying a torch for Meera since before she was even born, as Bran imprinted a part of himself on Hodor's soul years ago
Hell yeah! Cool theory! One thing though.. tecnicalllyyy.. bran has warged into hodor before we even meet him.. or he wouldn’t have been introduced as hodor.. to me I think he’s been brodor all along... not to say he isn’t in love with meera though. Maybe he (Willis) is the reason bran loves meera?
This is the problem with causal loops (bootstrap paradoxes) in stories. Well, not 'problem' exactly because they certainly can add something to a story or be a successful basis for a story when handled well but I'd much prefer that they stayed trapped in science fiction rather than popping up out of nowhere in fantasy. Makes for good theories and discussions though! :)
North by Northeast Yes, i must admit, I spin my wheels pretty hard on causal loops in stories. I love how GRRM has approached the time travel element of this story though. “The past is already written, the ink is dry” almost infers that time, in this world, is not a line, nor a loop but a lump!! Anything that happens in the future to affect the past has happened already therefore is happening right now. No forwards no backwards, the beginning and the end are the same, singular, point. It makes the plastic nature of time in this world a far more palatable concept.. to me anyway.. lol!
Tom Hume It's more palatable than if it were like Back To The Future (although I love that film) - that would be awful in GoT. Bran can influence the past but the past can't be changed therefore his future is already written. He essentially has no free will. No wonder he's devoid of emotion, poor guy.
J. S. I wasn't thinking specifically of Dark but actually that is a really good example thank you, and a great show. I watched it in German with subtitles.
And it was Meera yelling, Hold the door! So he probably had her voice in his head this whole time. A tragic love story. Really enjoy this side stories that add to the books and show.
I also think thats part of why HODOR became his name, it was the last thing the woman he loved asked of him. In the past he had a seizure but his strong feelings for Meera might've made that one important fact stick
Bran did the timewarg into younger Hordor, so yes, while I do think Hodor loved Meera most of his life, its because Bran was imprinted on him from when he warged into child Hordor. It happened in the show, and I think it will happen in the books.
This is devastating, he indeed has one REAL reason for sacrifice himself... Love overtaking fear by just holding one door, but that door is not closed forever, it is partly on Brandom now ;)
This makes so much sense. Especially when you think about the fact that him holding the door in the future was what made him always say "Hodor", if he saw that he was holding the door he probably also saw her and the love he had for her. Therefore he loved her his whole life after that before he even met her.
I really like this take and it makes me feel more like Bran adopted Hodor's love for Meera since Bran had already warged into Hodor before he started showing feelings for Meera
But, didn't Hodor get his signature affliction by Bran worging into him in the whole Hold the Door thing? Wasn't that in the past? So, if I'm following this theory, Hodor could have had a piece of future-Brandon Stark's infatuation with Meera. Right?
You set this up so well for the perfect theory that would truly blow minds... and then you fell just short of it!! The obvious extension of this theory is that Bran loved Meera by the time he warged back through time into Hodor, and transferred this love to child Hodor.
Dude. Me either. I've read that love line a dozens of times, and for so reason, it just felt off this time. So I reread all brans chapters as I searched arouND th rabbit hole :)) Check out luimbe''s comment pinned on this video. Luimbe wonders who helped put on lyanna's armor... imagine if it was hodor!?÷ and the implications. Bow THAT would be a gnarly secret :))
Aww so touching. A nice way to remember him. The only word that he repeated his whole life was the last words of the love of his life which were from Meera "hold the door."
Hodor was warged by Brandon of the future when he was a child, so maybe future Brans feelings of love were transferred into child hodor?? So it was brans love for mera all along?
Nothing to do with Meera, but “Brodor” was foreshadowed in A Game of Thrones. Brans chapter right after Ned is beheaded. “See Rodrik should teach me to use a poleaxe. If I had a poleaxe with a big long haft, Hodor could be my legs. We could be a knight together.” “I think that... unlikely,” Maester Luwin said. “Bran, when a man fights, his arms and legs and thoughts must be as one.”
Hodor loved Meera because Bran loved Meera and Bran wargs into Hodor in the past. So yeah, Hodor in a way was always part Bran. Also, Meera is the one who told him to hold the door.
Bran warged Hodor when Hodor was a child, presumably Bran had those feelings still, so if he left that love within Hodor it could have been when Hodor was a child. That was an intense moment and there had to be all kinds of emotional bleeding from Bran and Hodor.
holy hell, that makes his holding the door even more powerful! These subtle clues are part of the reason why ASoIaF is the premier world fantasy! I love that you can re-read a section w/ an intent in mind and find the clues you're looking for. A sign of awesome writing.
yeah the story is nuts. i was actually digging for quotes for a quick video im finally doing today when i came across that "love" line and fell down the rabbit hole lol but its awesome. i figured id get called insane for this one. but people seem to dig it actually, even though it's probably just fan fiction, and even if true, will never be proven ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
What if bran gave him the loving thoughts when he warged him to hold the door, so he actually loved her since he was a kid but just had no idea who she was. Idk
I've always operated under the assumption that Hodor loved her for had some sort of deep deep affection for her ever since I started watching the show a few years back based off everything I saw and picked up on. Cool to see some evidence from the books to back it up. Love these videos
i never saw it this way until two nights ago. so you got that feeling from the show!!?? very cool. that makes me feel better about this theory. thank you for sharing!
bridge4 Yeah, I mean, maybe I'm just sick lol but for me, as soon as soon as they were on screen I just had the impression that he loved her/was in love with her. I'm honestly really far behind in the actual series right now, I watched up until the end of season 4 and then trailed off, but I've kept up with breakdown and theory videos and articles so I know what's going on, so it's kinda hard to remember why I felt that way but I do remember even saying that to a buddy of mine that I watched the show with. I've really gotta get back on the ball with catching up in the series, when I do I'll start from season 1 again and see if I can see the things I saw and I'll report back
Bran went back in time and warged hodor as a child so hodor lived his entire life with brans feelings inside him. Thats why it appears like he cares for her, but also that it feels strange when bran considers holding her in hodors body. Its because hodor does not truly feel the same. They are only brans lingering feelings. Hodor had a crush on another strong female... Lyanna Stark
Dude you have this interesting ability to combine sincere, insightful analysis and insights with hilarious naming conventions and other small jokes that make all of your videos such a pleasure to watch. Just.. well done, man. Keep up the good work.
7:55 I don't understand how you manage to say Brodor with a straight face, because I f**cking lost it when you said it. Because sitting here mixing the image of Hodor, the gentle giant, with Kristian Nairn (the actor), the dope ass DJ. And now I'm just imagining Hodor walking around with his Headphones jamming to music while being awesome.....or maybe it's just me being tired.
Brother, I am officially all up in your channel. I'm binging your stuff like crazy. I love your theories, your presentation, your style, and I appreciate the work you clearly put in to these videos. Thank you. Please keep it up! [Sidenote: I only just now realized that I'm still not okay about the whole "Hold The Door" situation. I'm not over it. I'll be crying and time-looping over in the corner for a bit.]
Thank you! I've always thought that Radagast never gets enough love. Not only in his work with the fight for good, but he is a friend to nature and animals, an Ainur, and a Maiar too; so I give his shoutout when I can. I've long been a Tolkien-lover, but I'll admit that I'm a relative newbie to The Song Of Ice And Fire (only for a few years now, and only just started seeing the show), but I'm loving the similar deep history and lore. And I've been looking at a lot of youtube channels on it, but I'm honestly digging yours the most. The theories, the thoughtfulness and research, etc. Well done, man. Honestly. Please keep it up.
Hodor is such a sweet tragic character...Your videos are great. You bring something extra and you really find perspectives that are new and fresh! Keep it up Stud muffin!
Lol who is that. From always sunny? Or not that. It's the one called mother of my children or something with... OK I stopped ramblking and googled it. Yea I know barney. He was awesome. Not sure I deserve a high five from such a legend. But thanks!
This was a great video! And a convincing argument on Hodor's love for Meera. I mean Brandon may have been warging him, but its Meera's instruction to "hold the door". Of course he held it....so she and Brandon could get away....they show time and again how Meera would look after Hodor as much as Brandon...., so its not farfetched that he could love her. He died for her. Thanks for the video😊
Exceeeeeeeept... what about the time travel warging? How would that piece of Bran that existed even before Bran did function inside Hodor from his youth.
Unrequited love. A repetetive theme in this story and in life itself. It's one thing with characters like Jorah who I really think is hoping that his loyalty and affections will someday be reciprocated. Hodor, on the flip side, just loved without expectation.
Adds content to his sacrifice. He wasn't doing it because Bran made him or because of his loyalty to the Starks. He sacrificed himself for an unrequited love.
You are forgetting that Bran worged into Hodor when Hodor was a child while Bran was already in love with Meera, So Hodor could have held onto his love for Meera or Brans love for her since he was a kid.
very interesting. i agree that bran has a crush on meera, BUT: hodor lost his ability to articulate when bran first warged into hodor (before bran was born) , so why cant brans love have transmitted at that time? that would explain hodors excitement for meera back then i think,and i like the idea a lot
This!!!! My heart!!!! By the way, Hodor became Hodor when he was 16 or so, around Meera’s age when they first met. I never perceived Hodor as a 30-ish year old man. He’s too innocent, even for a simple man. Maybe his mental age hasn’t grown this whole time while his body did, because his brain is stuck in that Hodor loop? (´；Д；`)
Leviathan 77 well, in the forsaken flashback when Hodor has the seizure, Lyanna Stark was an early teen of maybe 13-14. She fell in love with Rhaegar shortly after, and was still a teen when she had Jon, who is 14 at the start of GoT. So Hodor must be in his early to mid 30s in book 1. Hodor’s actor I believe was 30-ish when he was first casted, instead Ned was aged. Book Ned died at 36.
You have sound, well thought out theories and arguments for them. This one makes me resent the fact that the Stark kids Warging abilities are only limited to Bran on the show, even more than I already did.
Speaking of gnarly abilities, I'm somewhat convinced that once the Horn of Jormund gets tooted and the Wall comes crashing down, all of the Dead Starks buried in the Winterfell crypts will be resurrected and extremely pissed off . I really don't have any more of an argument for this other than the narration keeps bringing our attention to the crypts, the vague suggestion of some whitewalker connection to the Starks, and the fact that the bastard we all love to hate is squatting in Winterfell at the close of the last book. It's not as hairbrained as some of the others I've heard. Anywho, nice work, I look forward to checking out more of your content.
What if Bran developed feelings for Meera because Hodor was already in love with Meera? I thought that was going to be your conclusion, but you just stopped before it :/
Technically hadn’t Bran already warged into Hodor as a child in order to protect Meera and Bran in the future. Thus, that protective, paternal instinct to save Meera exist since Hodor was a child. That, and Bran’s crush and love for Meera would exist Hodor’s entire life after he became Hodor
You could have made this video a bit longer. There were more things to explore. I've listed a few points you could have added to this video and for future videos, as well. Such as: - If it was Hodor who actually ignited the Bran's feelings for Meera; - If Hodor had ever loved anybody else; - If Hodor remembers Lyanna; - If Hodor was happy about the story BECAUSE it was about Lyanna; - Age difference between Hodor and Lyanna; And Show-only: - How did Hodor react the very first moment he sees Meera; - If Hodor remembers Meera's voice inside his head, more specifically to that last scene; The opposite of warging (Do glass candles also create this soul-link between people): - Is there EVEN more to Maester Aemon's last days; - Do the dreams in the story reflect somebody trying to warg/candle into them? And most importantly: - Can we tell who the potential invader is by the random thoughts that go into the minds of people when they start acting up? Examples would be virtually all of the main characters, but most notably Theon, Jamie, Ned, Cat and Dany. The video was awesome! Keep it up!
Thaaaaaaanks. You've just made me sad. Yet another reason why Hodor's sacrifice and death were so sad. I wondered a few days ago, after watching another video, if Hodor hadn't held the door more for Meera than Bran, or maybe equally for both. Now here's a mini-series I'd like to see: Hodor's POV throughout all the books.
It's just very interesting how when all of the wargs are in the wolves, it seems like the wolf is very much the one in control. The human can influence, but if the human were to let things just play out, it is the wolf who is in control generally. I don't remember how that Sixskins is with his creatures though. But when Bran goes into Hodor, Hodor is so so scared that he immediately retreats relinquishing full control to Bran. I wonder if this is because of the personalities. Like Hodor being timid and meek whereas the wolves are commanding. I do honestly think that the love line was because maybe he had an adult background within him to put those feelings into those specific words. Also, maybe he wanted Meera to continue the story because Old Nan was his mom and was the storyteller
Perhaps Bran planted the seed of love for Meera when he warged Hodor in the past. Those feelings might have lingered Hodor's entire life until Meera finally shows up. Bran warging him again, in the present this time, reinvigorated Hodor's dormant and transcendent love for Meera.
I knew it was coming, but the door scene got me again - especially this time, thinking he wasn't just holding the door out of duty to bran, but out of his love for Meera too.
Ironically it may have been his love for her that caused willis's transformation into hodor. Maybe it was his love for her that let her voice transfer through time and warging, and inevitably caused the hodor transformation. So basically he couldn't tell her that he loved her because he loved her, very tragic and lovely.
Loved the video! Hodor - the one character in GoT that is love through and through. No greater love than to lay your life down for your friends. I hope because he had perfect love he will come back as some type of super power that the Night King won't be able to control. I know it's unlikely, but I hope he has a bigger role to play than just a wight.
Aren’t knights helped into armor as well? Would hodor have helped Lyanna into her armor?
oh no wayyyyy. i dont know if we will ever find this out, but unless proven false, your theory is living on in my head. that is awesome!!!
thank you for sharing, Luimbe!
bridge4. I have a thought about this theory. Were men allowed to help dress women? I think, imo, that it's something he'd never do. He'd have been too young, and we've seen Lyanna dressed as a boy, and
Kerri McDonald I thought the same except not being properly knighted she wouldn’t have had a squire to do that. Who else would help her armor up for the tourney?
bridge4 🐺
Kev you've made Hodor's sacrifice even more heartbreaking. He'd lived his life for the destiny to save the woman he loved... I'm not crying.
"i'm not crying" lol
one other person wrote something funny like that. y'all crack me up
I agree. It now seems like he held the door... out of love.
William Rice I want confirmation from GRRM!
no. it's, like, really smoky in here
That's actually strangely comforting to me, because up until now, I've felt like Hodor was (out of sheer necessity, but still) *used* by Bran to hold that door and make it possible for Meera to escape with Bran and preserve the world's memories - that he was an innocent basically forced to give his life to save them - but if he LOVED Meera, it was as much his _own_ choice as it was Bran's, which changes his death from a horrible tragedy (Bran having to sacrifice Hodor) to an act of true heroism (Hodor giving his life to save the woman he loved).
But didn’t bran warg into child hodor? So he could have transferred his feelings about meera to hodor years before meera was born.
My thoughts exactly
That is a question, further more that piece of Bran would be in Hodor for years. Is that why Hodor was excited to see Meera the first time. Yes, yes, my mind is blown.
Time Paradox... Lovecraft... Knowledge incites insanity. The time paradox crippled Hodor's poor mind. Inspiration from @ideasofIceandFire
Also the voice Hodor hears is Meera when his mind breaks. There maybe a recognition of the voice.
Tyler Sherwood thinking the same. From hodors point of view it was all a crazy dream up until he first saw Meara hence his excitement and joy to realise the cause of his affliction.
You are missing the time Travel Worg. Where hodor at the time of his death scarred hodor as a child. At that time he could of been influenced by Brans imprinted love for Mira as a child. Explaining why is so excited to see her in the beginning. He remembered his love for her form when he was mentally damaged by the timetravel worging. Hodors love for Mira is Brans love for Mira handed through time. A forever loop of loving her and dieing for her.
CRIMINALLY Underrated post.
this deserves more likessssss
Like, like, LOVE!
holy fucking shit dude
Also if you're to believe this theory to be true, Meera being the one who said "hold the door". Hodor spent most of his life only being able to repeat the last words he heard from the woman he loved.
Turns out I wasn't emotionally ready for this video. :(
bran technically transferred these feelings to hodor when he was viewing the past so in reality bran just gave hodor those thoughts before he was even born technically bran has been loving meera for decades before his birth
and hodor had these thoughts in his mind the rest of his life in the end bran had the thoughts first
@@ScottishRebel maybe bran got them from Hodor in the first place
Same here
oh wow, like echo
So "Hodor!" Translates both to "Hold the door!" And more directly to "As You Wish!"
Which is why it was important that Meera was the one to actually say “hold the door”...because he loved her. He wasn’t about to let those things tear apart the woman he loved. And THAT made me choke up all over again. Smh. Thx for that! Lol ❤️
I agree. Hodor needed to love her so he would do anything to save her a.k.a hold the door.
This makes me think what if Bran being part of Hodor helped that love develop so he was ready to hold the door?
Bill please
Oh
Z
I think it's the opposite. He didn't hold the door because it was Meera saying it. He fell in love with Meera because as a child he heard her voice through Bran's warging. When Hodor actually meets Meera for the first time he is excited because it's the voice he had in his mind since he was Willis!
That...would actually make the “Hold the Door” thing so much more logical, and even more meaningful. Instead of it just being Bran’s warging like in the show, it could also be his love for Meera...or maybe *thats* why he holds the door! All for his love of Meera, going to that exact moment, a moment he has been preparing for and become so obsessed with that all he can say is what he will do for his love.
“Hold the door” for her...shit, now I wan’t that to be real...you think G.R.R.M. just looks at all the theories and is like, “Ohh! I’mma use that!” Be a hell of a lot easier.
I'm pretty sure I mentioned in the next video that, even if this is true, we are going to find out in the books that bran forced hodor to hold that door (against his will) :*(
This might explain "Mad King Aerys" madness, if King Aerys warged into an unknown dragon that still existed in a far off place than his "burn them all!" would be the dragon in him wanting to kill everyone by burning them, King Aerys might have gone mad because he didn't realize the dragon was in him, this is from his history
"Although his rule began benevolently, he succumbed to madness"
anyone else agree with this?
No, because its been mentioned a few times that mental illness runs in the targaryian family. And they inbreed which would increase the odds. And he seems inspired by king henry
which Henry? there were at least 8 of them
The one literally known as the mad king. Henry the 6th.
i thought that was King George?
King Henry the 6th is believed to have had schizophrenia. www.henrysixth.com/?page_id=55
There has been more than one mad king. Again, inbreeding. Which is why I say the mad king is at least in part inspired by real life
Bummer and Brodor, sounds like such a good buddy comedy
Lol!
bro! the door!
I would watch thissss
Barney Stinson approves :-)
Brodor... HAH, that's a meme waiting to happen.
"Hey guys Bridge4 here today to make you feel even worse about Hodor's death"
great vid tho
lol
It’s like if you know one more sad thing about Hodor he’ll be the most tragic character in the whole story. Thanks for making me tear up
My bad
I actually felt much better about it, not worse, because if this is true, then Hodor was not a simple innocent that Bran had to sacrifice to enable Meera and himself to escape (IMO the thing that made his death such a horrific tragedy, like Shireen's); he was a true *hero* who gave his life to save the woman he loved. I sincerely hope you're right, bridge4.
@@HopeUnquenchable Yep, very true.
This actually made me wonder what the cost is for worging too much. Is it like Voldemort, where if you give your soul in bits and pieces - to things that will die before you - are you destined to die in pieces? Is Bran destined to be more and more detached because with each use of his power he expends a bit more of his soul/humanity?
How much of Bran died with Hodor?
....this is waaay too deep for me, which way to the shallow end of the pool?
The first few seconds made me think you were going to speak Hodor the entire video.
Lol. No but I do say "hold her"
I would have been pissed but also kind impressed by the commitment. Oh man, I forgot about Bran crushing on Meera. Those days are far gone. I didn’t pause The Avengers to catch a cause of the feels.
1:29 quality picture choice for Lady. I laughed, all the others are so serious.
A Cat lmao!
I laughed at "Bummer", grinned at "Rickydog", then absolutely lost it at "Brodor" lmfao
BUMMA
Get ready for Gon and Arymeria
the "Bummer" thing just killed me, did not see it coming
Lol bummer means something different in the states
It's just an "oh darn." "Oh shucks" lol
I know lol. It's the wordplay of Bran + Summer = Bummer that I found extremely witty and funny
Ohhh. I thought u were laughing at the european meaning. I didn't know that one :-/
Most of the theory channels post stuff like " Is (add name) secretly a Targaryen ?". Like , every theory is about someone being a Targaryen.
But this channel does put a smile on my face. Great theories with very great evidence to back it up. Gg my dude Kev.
Perfectly balanced. As all things should be
Thanks, Umar. I do prep a secret targ video last December tho and plan on finally editing it in a week or two. But I promise thats the only one I can think of :-P
everyone's a secret targaryen!
@@jennyr4057 for real. Not really a secret, but the Targaryen blood is mixed with alot of big name houses
I mean both Jon(Aegon) and the NK are both Stark/Targaryen. Even Tyrions grandfather or something has Targaryen blood
This was great! I always thought that Hodor had a crush on Meera in the books.
(In my best Gump voice... "I may not be a smart man, but I know what love is.")
However, I never really thought about it at this level.
But the best part is that if you take the scene from The Door... Meera is the one that gives Hodor his name.
Hodor may have just remembered Meera from when he was warged as a boy, after all, she was the one saying "Hold the door." Not Bran.
Here's the cream on that cake. The only word Hodor has every said is the truncated repetition of the words of his love Meera: Hold the door.
He kept repeating her words "Hold the Door" his entire life!
Why can everyone understand Groot but not Hodor?
lol. aw. groot is awesome. have you seen the opening scene to movie 2? it's friggen awesome!
Because Flora Colossi is an actual language(in the comics), even though most beings unfamiliar with the language can't translate it and it sounds the same to us. Hodor... Well, most likely do to his mental handicap is saying of 'Hodor' is as simple as that and he's not trying to say anything complex, so there's nothing to understand. However while 'slow', he can understand complexity so it is possible the communication centers of his brain are more damaged than the rest and he's unable to physically express it properly. Theoretically if inflections and such weren't random and he was still attempting to speak properly(after years of knowing that no one can understand him), perhaps his 'Hodor' could be translated as well. The former makes far more sense to me, but only Martin could say for sure.
Lol
Because they can't? Rocket understands him but no-one else does.
@Quaid Except at least Thor and all other Guardians of the Galaxy can. Thor because he is Thor and Guardians because they have translators (?). Guardians have all reacted to Groot's potty mouth so they understand him at least to some degree if not the translators.
Hodor LOVED Lyana. So when a young strong beauty who looked and acted like Lyana showed up. Hodor fell in love all over again. Bran did not feel love until Hodor. Bran felt a child's crush. It was the love for Lyana placed on Meera that had Bran "Loving" Meera. Again it goes right back to Lyana. I think Lyana is GEORGES first love who broke his heart and played many men that Lyana is based on.
awww. is there a real life Lyanna!?!?
Georges first love. The women who broke his heart to be with another man. George writes about his own Heart break. I always thought lyanna was the worst women in the whole book. She caused so much pain because she was selfish. Georges first love. Yes Hodor loves Meera. I think that is the ONLY real love in the whole story. He saw Meera for what she was. If Hodor hadnt loved Lyanna and been broken hearted he would of never looked at Meera the way he did. I wish George would have Meera and Hodor end up together forever. REAL LOVE.
definitely agree with this theory
thebovineavenger I love this! But wouldnt Hodor's love for Meera be the worst kind of love? If Hodor really loved Lyanna, then he only loves Meera because she reminds him of someone else.
well, I think that Hodor still thinks of himself as a boy. When he got bran-ned he got stuck in that loop. So his love or admiration fro lyanna is transferrable to the likeness of meera. For all we know, he thinks meera is actually lyanna.
If this is so, it makes his sacrifice even more meaningful! He did it fir the love of them both.
Mayhaps Hodors love for Meera is the reason why her voice was able to pierce Brans greensight and affect the past.
A better question is, WHEN did Hodor fall in love with Meera? Its hard to believe that hearing hearing her command to "Hold the door!" everyday in the back of his mind didn't somehow leave a more lasting impression. Did he fall in love with her before ever meeting her?
The 1st time Bran wargs into Hodor is also the last time. When Bran was viewing the past with blood raven Hodor as a child spoke normally. It wasn't until Bran wargs the young Hodor in the past in order to simultaneously control Hodor in the future, thus sacrificing Hodor to save hisself. Bodor could have been made then as well the love Bran felt for the girl. Perhaps Hodor grew up loving a girl before she was born.
It wasn't just loyalty it was for love.
Take it one step further...
Bran planted the love seed (god that sounds bad) in Hodor in the time-warg. Hodor loved Meera before she was even born because Bran already loved her when he started time-jumping. Thus, the love could actually be a paradox.
Also, depending on how much kid Hodor saw when he had that Bran-induced seizure that spurred his speech impediment, he may recognize Meera from those visions.
Hodor knew who jon snow's parents were for sure
I'm with ya. because i implied that he understood the love story behind the tale of the knight of the laughing tree.
but do you think he connected the dots when hearing this story? or before?
bridge4 i think it's when he hears the story itself (but one thing about it, the story of the knight and the tree as said refers to rheagar and lyanna (or leanna) but it was thought by most at that time that rheagar kidnapped and raped her.) (I'm also just beginning with the books, where I'm reading a song of ice and fire: game of thrones. So I'm not up on everything)
Burhhhhhhh.... I'm dead
Well, one point. Hodor could've adopted Brian's live for Meera when he was first worged into as a child. Meera wasn't born yet, but Hodor would have seen this as destiny to meet this girl that he loved since before she was born.
I think an interesting addition to this would be that 'hold the door!' are actually her words and Hodor has been repeating them for most of his life.
It's pretty striking that it was Meera's words that 'turned' him into Hodor too. Whether he truly recognised her voice from his visit as a boy or if he just grew into the love naturally, it's a very neat connection for them.
It would make the idea of the Mad King's "burn them all" tirade actually coming from present-Jaime's words another tight connection, which I think you alluded to in another video.
Regardless, I like that Hodor was able to protect her. Heart=warmed
Hodor = Hold the Door
Hodor = Hold Her
Omg
hoed her
Sahil Sharma 😂
Your reaching
🤯🤯🤯
That scene never gets any easier to see.
I’d argue it’s likely Hodor loved Lyanna. She was similar to Meera but also would explain his reaction to the story?
someone suggested that Hodor may have helped Lyanna put on her armor back at Harrenhal (cause it's hard to put on armor by yourself. best to use someone who can't speak if you want to keep it a secret. especially if you grew up and trust that someone =)
I think the love still generates from bran. (Spolier) Since bran warged into kid hodor, when Bran already had those feelings. Kid hordor had a piece of bran all along. Hodor grew up with a little bit of Bran in him, since he connected old and young hodor, those feelings transferred down. Which is why Hodor obeyed ned so much, like a son obeying a father
That hold the door scene still gave me goosebumps and shivers down my spine. That is probably the most engaging scene I have ever experienced where I felt such an emotional connection to a fictional character. Pure cinematic beauty and art.
The whole show is art. The sound dude Ramin jwadi is a wizard. And everyone involved in piecing it all together is awesome
But yeah, I'm with ya. This is a powerful scene among powerful scenes. Pure art
Hodor loved her from one point on. When he changed and was rolling on the ground screaming Hodor as a boy. When this happened, he glimpsed the future Hodor, and the girl. Everything else you state supports it. Hodor was seeing her both through his adult form and child form. Then with the first connection with Hodor, bran in turn fell in love.
"Brodor" sounds like the nickname I'd give a guy at the gym who keeps saying "One more set".
Lolol
Lmao oh man
If the story with Hodor in the books is the same as the one in the show then, considering the time travel involved, Bran has been inside of Hodor long before Bran was even born. It's possible that whatever feelings Hodor initially displays for Meera come from the part of Bran that had been a part of him since that event. Great video!
:))
But Hodor's feelings happen after Bran wargs him... Because he was warged as a child before Bran was ever born. So e feelings still could have come from Bran.
How many times will Hodor make us weep for him !
If, as it is a GRRM addition, Hodor came from "hold the door" from Meera through Bran, as Bran was then skinchanging into him in the past, technically Hodor had just been carrying a torch for Meera since before she was even born, as Bran imprinted a part of himself on Hodor's soul years ago
Hell yeah! Cool theory! One thing though.. tecnicalllyyy.. bran has warged into hodor before we even meet him.. or he wouldn’t have been introduced as hodor.. to me I think he’s been brodor all along... not to say he isn’t in love with meera though. Maybe he (Willis) is the reason bran loves meera?
Great point!
This is the problem with causal loops (bootstrap paradoxes) in stories. Well, not 'problem' exactly because they certainly can add something to a story or be a successful basis for a story when handled well but I'd much prefer that they stayed trapped in science fiction rather than popping up out of nowhere in fantasy. Makes for good theories and discussions though! :)
North by Northeast Yes, i must admit, I spin my wheels pretty hard on causal loops in stories. I love how GRRM has approached the time travel element of this story though. “The past is already written, the ink is dry” almost infers that time, in this world, is not a line, nor a loop but a lump!! Anything that happens in the future to affect the past has happened already therefore is happening right now. No forwards no backwards, the beginning and the end are the same, singular, point. It makes the plastic nature of time in this world a far more palatable concept.. to me anyway.. lol!
Tom Hume It's more palatable than if it were like Back To The Future (although I love that film) - that would be awful in GoT.
Bran can influence the past but the past can't be changed therefore his future is already written. He essentially has no free will. No wonder he's devoid of emotion, poor guy.
J. S. I wasn't thinking specifically of Dark but actually that is a really good example thank you, and a great show. I watched it in German with subtitles.
Brodor.. I like it. Lol
And it was Meera yelling, Hold the door! So he probably had her voice in his head this whole time. A tragic love story.
Really enjoy this side stories that add to the books and show.
I also think thats part of why HODOR became his name, it was the last thing the woman he loved asked of him. In the past he had a seizure but his strong feelings for Meera might've made that one important fact stick
:*)
and all he could say was hodor... thinking how he turned her last words to him into his identity made me cry...
Bran did the timewarg into younger Hordor, so yes, while I do think Hodor loved Meera most of his life, its because Bran was imprinted on him from when he warged into child Hordor. It happened in the show, and I think it will happen in the books.
This is devastating, he indeed has one REAL reason for sacrifice himself...
Love overtaking fear by just holding one door, but that door is not closed forever, it is partly on Brandom now ;)
You missed a piece. of the puzzle.. Think about how hodor became hodor, he already had Bran in Hodor all along. So Brans love would have been there.
This makes so much sense. Especially when you think about the fact that him holding the door in the future was what made him always say "Hodor", if he saw that he was holding the door he probably also saw her and the love he had for her. Therefore he loved her his whole life after that before he even met her.
I absolutely love your insight into GOT. You are consistent and knowledgeable. You have a great speaking voice too. Keep up the great work!
thanks, Tracy =))
I really like this take and it makes me feel more like Bran adopted Hodor's love for Meera since Bran had already warged into Hodor before he started showing feelings for Meera
But, didn't Hodor get his signature affliction by Bran worging into him in the whole Hold the Door thing? Wasn't that in the past? So, if I'm following this theory, Hodor could have had a piece of future-Brandon Stark's infatuation with Meera. Right?
You set this up so well for the perfect theory that would truly blow minds... and then you fell just short of it!! The obvious extension of this theory is that Bran loved Meera by the time he warged back through time into Hodor, and transferred this love to child Hodor.
yup =)
All of these chapter re-reads I've done, and I never in a billion years would've picked that up. You are truly a great analyst Kev. 👍
Dude. Me either. I've read that love line a dozens of times, and for so reason, it just felt off this time. So I reread all brans chapters as I searched arouND th rabbit hole :))
Check out luimbe''s comment pinned on this video. Luimbe wonders who helped put on lyanna's armor... imagine if it was hodor!?÷ and the implications. Bow THAT would be a gnarly secret :))
Aww so touching. A nice way to remember him. The only word that he repeated his whole life was the last words of the love of his life which were from Meera "hold the door."
Hodor was warged by Brandon of the future when he was a child, so maybe future Brans feelings of love were transferred into child hodor?? So it was brans love for mera all along?
Nothing to do with Meera, but “Brodor” was foreshadowed in A Game of Thrones. Brans chapter right after Ned is beheaded. “See Rodrik should teach me to use a poleaxe. If I had a poleaxe with a big long haft, Hodor could be my legs. We could be a knight together.” “I think that... unlikely,” Maester Luwin said. “Bran, when a man fights, his arms and legs and thoughts must be as one.”
Hodor loved Meera because Bran loved Meera and Bran wargs into Hodor in the past. So yeah, Hodor in a way was always part Bran. Also, Meera is the one who told him to hold the door.
0:45 that you Russle Crow?
Bran warged Hodor when Hodor was a child, presumably Bran had those feelings still, so if he left that love within Hodor it could have been when Hodor was a child. That was an intense moment and there had to be all kinds of emotional bleeding from Bran and Hodor.
holy hell, that makes his holding the door even more powerful! These subtle clues are part of the reason why ASoIaF is the premier world fantasy! I love that you can re-read a section w/ an intent in mind and find the clues you're looking for. A sign of awesome writing.
yeah the story is nuts. i was actually digging for quotes for a quick video im finally doing today when i came across that "love" line and fell down the rabbit hole lol
but its awesome. i figured id get called insane for this one. but people seem to dig it actually, even though it's probably just fan fiction, and even if true, will never be proven
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
What if bran gave him the loving thoughts when he warged him to hold the door, so he actually loved her since he was a kid but just had no idea who she was. Idk
I've always operated under the assumption that Hodor loved her for had some sort of deep deep affection for her ever since I started watching the show a few years back based off everything I saw and picked up on. Cool to see some evidence from the books to back it up. Love these videos
i never saw it this way until two nights ago. so you got that feeling from the show!!?? very cool. that makes me feel better about this theory. thank you for sharing!
bridge4 Yeah, I mean, maybe I'm just sick lol but for me, as soon as soon as they were on screen I just had the impression that he loved her/was in love with her. I'm honestly really far behind in the actual series right now, I watched up until the end of season 4 and then trailed off, but I've kept up with breakdown and theory videos and articles so I know what's going on, so it's kinda hard to remember why I felt that way but I do remember even saying that to a buddy of mine that I watched the show with. I've really gotta get back on the ball with catching up in the series, when I do I'll start from season 1 again and see if I can see the things I saw and I'll report back
Bran went back in time and warged hodor as a child so hodor lived his entire life with brans feelings inside him. Thats why it appears like he cares for her, but also that it feels strange when bran considers holding her in hodors body. Its because hodor does not truly feel the same. They are only brans lingering feelings. Hodor had a crush on another strong female... Lyanna Stark
Interesting!! I never thought of that.
I think you're on to something here, and it makes a lot of sense. It even deepens the reason why he would "Hold The Door".
BROdor! 😁😁😁
he may have loved the story because he remembered lyanna--and had a crush on her--and perhaps meera reminded him of her...
you know what i just read... what if Lyanna had Hodor armor her to be the knight of the laughing tree!?!?!? imagine!
bridge4 that would be bananas...i hope get another 'willis'/lyanna/ned/brandon childhood flashback in season 8 👊🏽👊🏽👊🏽
Dude you have this interesting ability to combine sincere, insightful analysis and insights with hilarious naming conventions and other small jokes that make all of your videos such a pleasure to watch. Just.. well done, man. Keep up the good work.
i appreciate that. all credit to George though. he's the man! =))
This might be my favorite theory yet
7:55 I don't understand how you manage to say Brodor with a straight face, because I f**cking lost it when you said it. Because sitting here mixing the image of Hodor, the gentle giant, with Kristian Nairn (the actor), the dope ass DJ. And now I'm just imagining Hodor walking around with his Headphones jamming to music while being awesome.....or maybe it's just me being tired.
Also, great theory. Keep up the good work
Your videos are so in depth and amazing plus your soothing voice just makes it perfect!
I'm trying my best :))
Brother, I am officially all up in your channel. I'm binging your stuff like crazy. I love your theories, your presentation, your style, and I appreciate the work you clearly put in to these videos. Thank you. Please keep it up!
[Sidenote: I only just now realized that I'm still not okay about the whole "Hold The Door" situation. I'm not over it. I'll be crying and time-looping over in the corner for a bit.]
That helps the channel a lot so thank you!!
Ps... it's awesome seeing radagast get some love. Creative SN! :))
Thank you! I've always thought that Radagast never gets enough love. Not only in his work with the fight for good, but he is a friend to nature and animals, an Ainur, and a Maiar too; so I give his shoutout when I can.
I've long been a Tolkien-lover, but I'll admit that I'm a relative newbie to The Song Of Ice And Fire (only for a few years now, and only just started seeing the show), but I'm loving the similar deep history and lore. And I've been looking at a lot of youtube channels on it, but I'm honestly digging yours the most. The theories, the thoughtfulness and research, etc. Well done, man. Honestly. Please keep it up.
I'm with ya on radagast. He never did and never will get the love he deserves
Thank you BTW :)
to soon for the "hold the door" scene. my heart broke a bit more thinking that and watching him hold the door.
It'll always be too soon for this and one other event in particular :*(
Hodor is such a sweet tragic character...Your videos are great. You bring something extra and you really find perspectives that are new and fresh! Keep it up Stud muffin!
thanks, Ashley =))
"Brodor" somewhere Barney Stinson is sending you a High-five.
Lol who is that. From always sunny? Or not that. It's the one called mother of my children or something with... OK I stopped ramblking and googled it.
Yea I know barney. He was awesome. Not sure I deserve a high five from such a legend. But thanks!
This was a great video! And a convincing argument on Hodor's love for Meera. I mean Brandon may have been warging him, but its Meera's instruction to "hold the door". Of course he held it....so she and Brandon could get away....they show time and again how Meera would look after Hodor as much as Brandon...., so its not farfetched that he could love her. He died for her. Thanks for the video😊
Exceeeeeeeept... what about the time travel warging? How would that piece of Bran that existed even before Bran did function inside Hodor from his youth.
Unrequited love. A repetetive theme in this story and in life itself. It's one thing with characters like Jorah who I really think is hoping that his loyalty and affections will someday be reciprocated. Hodor, on the flip side, just loved without expectation.
I like your warger/wolf mashup names idea, like when celebs are dating. Rey Wind, Sady, Aymeria, Bummer, Raggydog, and Jost.
ooooh, i like those!!
how about ghost being "Gon," pronounced "gone" ... too soon? or rather, too early?? :-P
Adds content to his sacrifice.
He wasn't doing it because Bran made him or because of his loyalty to the Starks.
He sacrificed himself for an unrequited love.
I actually think bran forced hodor to hold the door :*(
Every time I see one of these videos, it just makes me want to start the whole damn series over again!!!
You are forgetting that Bran worged into Hodor when Hodor was a child while Bran was already in love with Meera, So Hodor could have held onto his love for Meera or Brans love for her since he was a kid.
very interesting. i agree that bran has a crush on meera, BUT: hodor lost his ability to articulate when bran first warged into hodor (before bran was born) , so why cant brans love have transmitted at that time? that would explain hodors excitement for meera back then i think,and i like the idea a lot
If true, it's even more sad (in the show version) coz it was Meera who was saying "Hold the Door" to Hodor in the end
This!!!! My heart!!!!
By the way, Hodor became Hodor when he was 16 or so, around Meera’s age when they first met. I never perceived Hodor as a 30-ish year old man. He’s too innocent, even for a simple man.
Maybe his mental age hasn’t grown this whole time while his body did, because his brain is stuck in that Hodor loop?
(´；Д；`)
An Arber damn this is heartbreaking 💔💔💔
his biological age can't be 30 either. can it? ned wasn't 30 when he died was he?
Leviathan 77 well, in the forsaken flashback when Hodor has the seizure, Lyanna Stark was an early teen of maybe 13-14. She fell in love with Rhaegar shortly after, and was still a teen when she had Jon, who is 14 at the start of GoT. So Hodor must be in his early to mid 30s in book 1.
Hodor’s actor I believe was 30-ish when he was first casted, instead Ned was aged. Book Ned died at 36.
You have sound, well thought out theories and arguments for them. This one makes me resent the fact that the Stark kids Warging abilities are only limited to Bran on the show, even more than I already did.
Yeh. The other starks powers were all gnarly as well :)
Speaking of gnarly abilities, I'm somewhat convinced that once the Horn of Jormund gets tooted and the Wall comes crashing down, all of the Dead Starks buried in the Winterfell crypts will be resurrected and extremely pissed off . I really don't have any more of an argument for this other than the narration keeps bringing our attention to the crypts, the vague suggestion of some whitewalker connection to the Starks, and the fact that the bastard we all love to hate is squatting in Winterfell at the close of the last book.
It's not as hairbrained as some of the others I've heard. Anywho, nice work, I look forward to checking out more of your content.
What if Bran developed feelings for Meera because Hodor was already in love with Meera? I thought that was going to be your conclusion, but you just stopped before it :/
Technically hadn’t Bran already warged into Hodor as a child in order to protect Meera and Bran in the future. Thus, that protective, paternal instinct to save Meera exist since Hodor was a child. That, and Bran’s crush and love for Meera would exist Hodor’s entire life after he became Hodor
You could have made this video a bit longer.
There were more things to explore.
I've listed a few points you could have added to this video and for future videos, as well.
Such as:
- If it was Hodor who actually ignited the Bran's feelings for Meera;
- If Hodor had ever loved anybody else;
- If Hodor remembers Lyanna;
- If Hodor was happy about the story BECAUSE it was about Lyanna;
- Age difference between Hodor and Lyanna;
And Show-only:
- How did Hodor react the very first moment he sees Meera;
- If Hodor remembers Meera's voice inside his head, more specifically to that last scene;
The opposite of warging (Do glass candles also create this soul-link between people):
- Is there EVEN more to Maester Aemon's last days;
- Do the dreams in the story reflect somebody trying to warg/candle into them?
And most importantly:
- Can we tell who the potential invader is by the random thoughts that go into the minds of people when they start acting up?
Examples would be virtually all of the main characters, but most notably Theon, Jamie, Ned, Cat and Dany.
The video was awesome!
Keep it up!
Thaaaaaaanks. You've just made me sad. Yet another reason why Hodor's sacrifice and death were so sad. I wondered a few days ago, after watching another video, if Hodor hadn't held the door more for Meera than Bran, or maybe equally for both.
Now here's a mini-series I'd like to see: Hodor's POV throughout all the books.
for real. Hodor's POV would be VERY interesting =))
Hodor's POV fan fiction:
Hodor. Hodor hodor hodor hodor hodor. Hodor? Hodor hodor hodor hodor, hodor hodor. Hodor hodor, hodor hodor hodor: hodorhodorhodor, hooooodooorrr!
It's just very interesting how when all of the wargs are in the wolves, it seems like the wolf is very much the one in control. The human can influence, but if the human were to let things just play out, it is the wolf who is in control generally. I don't remember how that Sixskins is with his creatures though. But when Bran goes into Hodor, Hodor is so so scared that he immediately retreats relinquishing full control to Bran. I wonder if this is because of the personalities. Like Hodor being timid and meek whereas the wolves are commanding. I do honestly think that the love line was because maybe he had an adult background within him to put those feelings into those specific words.
Also, maybe he wanted Meera to continue the story because Old Nan was his mom and was the storyteller
I have one word to describe how absolutely AWESOME this video was...Hodor!
Perhaps Bran planted the seed of love for Meera when he warged Hodor in the past. Those feelings might have lingered Hodor's entire life until Meera finally shows up. Bran warging him again, in the present this time, reinvigorated Hodor's dormant and transcendent love for Meera.
I knew it was coming, but the door scene got me again - especially this time, thinking he wasn't just holding the door out of duty to bran, but out of his love for Meera too.
Ironically it may have been his love for her that caused willis's transformation into hodor. Maybe it was his love for her that let her voice transfer through time and warging, and inevitably caused the hodor transformation. So basically he couldn't tell her that he loved her because he loved her, very tragic and lovely.
whoa. you just took it to an entirely new level. i dig it!!
Loved the video! Hodor - the one character in GoT that is love through and through. No greater love than to lay your life down for your friends. I hope because he had perfect love he will come back as some type of super power that the Night King won't be able to control. I know it's unlikely, but I hope he has a bigger role to play than just a wight.
No wonder he was working so hard to hold the door...😭😭😭
This whole thing is so adorable.