Talking about friends, apart from the possibility of eating the betrayers at Craster's Keep, Bran definitely ate the meat of Coldhands' elk, a teammember so to speak.
While there’s a lot of evidence for the Jojen theory, I personally see the weirwood paste as the counterpart to the shade of the evening drink that Dany had in Qarth and turned Euron’s lips blue. The respective trees are color inverted versions of the other, implying some kind of connection. So if shade of the evening trees have a blue sap that gives people visions when eaten, it makes sense that weirwood sap and seeds would have the same effect. Speaking of, I’d love to see a video talking about the connections between weirwood and shade of the evening trees and the different theories around it.
The don't technically just "disappear" though. The book just ends. Like we don't know any other storyline. Stop reading into every goddamn sentence GRRM writes FFS.
@@newenglandrider3189they do “technically” disappear though, they just haven’t been gone for long. They make a point of telling us they are surprisingly absent. Just after telling us that he just ate something that looks like blood. Add to that the fact that the magic in GoT regularly requires blood sacrifices.. too early to tell, sure, but it’s heavily implied.
Robert, yours is some of the best content on TH-cam. Never, not once, have I seen a video of yours in my feed that I wasn't excited to watch - even if I know the topic backwards. Thanks for what you do. 🙂
I came late to the TV show. As I waited for the next season, I binged the books. Then. like many was disappointed in the season. Waiting for Martin's Winter, I discovered this channel last summer. There are lots of YT channels doing analysis or comparison of books and show, but this is much better.
I've always thought that Bran's fate is sealed in the tree. He is the new three eye crow, and he has been groomed and brought that far north to replace bloodraven. After he has that dream, at least two characters swear they hear their names in the rustling of the weirwood leaves. Which is also what Osha said is how they speak. He will be influencing things from afar, through mormonts old crow, visions and such. He will never have a POV chapter in my opinion. he is the new bloodraven, and we will have to sieve the pages to find his powerful influence.
That's how I remember it from when I read the book. That he had become part of the tree, and would stay there, not moving physically, but still visting places with that power.
Not sure if you noticed (I didn’t until it was pointed out) but right before Jon finds the dire wolves bran hears the trees making noise and the wind rustling things. Jon then hears something nobody else can and finds the wolves. Bran has been active for a loooong time.
Jojen paste is also convincing when contrasted with the prologue of ADWD... Varamyr six skins established the practice of cannibalism and sexual exploitation via warging, and how his mentor warg dismissed that all as "abomination". The prologue obviously foreshadows how Jon Snow may cheat death via warging into Ghost, but it also has grim parallels to Bran given Jojen paste. Also, Bran subdues Varamyr's one-eyed wolf via Summer, which sort of signals he's inheriting his prior alpha-warg status.
Good insight.. adwd Is rife with plot points of death and resurrection through cannibalization. Also misandei's glamor, spell of Mance/ lord of bones and Davos's finger bones and tc.
There is something so funny about the name "Jojen paste" to me. It just sounds like it's some regular meal and everyone has some Jojen in their kitchen just to use it to make paste.
One of the things I appreciated about magic in ASOIAF is that it's not something that just happens on a whim, but rather it always comes with a terrible price that someone has to pay. This theory fits that motif.
I always read Myra bolting from Bran as a result of him accidentally touching her mind, he's thinking about warging Hodor and about her at the same time, similar to the wilding woman that Six Skins tries to warg
Seeing as it's a Dark Chapter why not go darker. Bran is no stranger to sex, witnessing it is how he became paralyzed after all. He has also been warging inside an adult male's mind for months now. 100% some of Hodor's instincts and thoughts blended with his, just like with Summer. Prostitutes' are also called "Comfort Women". Bran is also the age where hormones start. So him going over to "Comfort" her could easily be him wanting to F not knowing this was completely messed up. His uncontrolled Green Seer powers could easily have made him transmit the thought to Meera at the same time. Why else would he NEED Hodor? Bran is perfectly able to reach out to her and say "Come here" to just put his arm around her. But to use anything lower than arms he'd need a different body.
Six Skins was trying to *take over* that Wildling woman's body, he wasn't' thinking about warging someone else's body and going over to her. Bran is not trying to take over Meera's body and so there's no reason she would be aware of what he is thinking, at no point does Meera display any telepathic abilities,
@@Mutiny960 Bullshit, when have greenseers ever consciously transmitted their thoughts to anybody who wasn't also a greenseer when that person was awake, first of all. And second of all he's not a rapist.
@@clobberelladoesntreadcomme9920 He repeatedly takes over Hodor's body, ie he inserts himself into hodor's body without permission. You sure Bran is above rape? Think about it he knows Hodor is afraid and not ok with Bran taking over his body but he rationalises it in his own head and hides it from the others.
@@Sstucash The motivations are totally different, the first time Bran does it in the books is to save all their lives when Hodor's frightened noises threaten to reveal the group's hiding place to the wildlings. Then it's to *defend* Meera against the Night's Watch Mutineers (can't remember if show only). I think the purpose of the Varymry Six Skins story is to contrast what Bran does/would do with power, and to emphasize how much guidance he *should* have vs how little he does have since the Andals made the magic of the old gods taboo.
Something the video doesn't address is the way Jojen changes his persona quite sharply. Before passing beneath the Wall, Jojen was always confident, and wise, keeping an eye on the big picture. It was for this Old Nan named Jojen "Little Grandfather". Once they pass the Wall, however, Jojen changes quite dramatically. He becomes sick, weakly, refusing to even eat at one point. He is clearly scared of his future. "Little Grandfather" is long gone.
Very accurate. It's very apparent that Jojen becomes legitimately terrified once they pass the Wall, because he knows deep down that his end is nigh. He goes from being wise beyond his years to a scared little boy trapped by large, dark, terrifying things beyond his understanding - and the friend he's leading to them is the one who ends him. Grim, grim stuff.
The Wall's blocking of "magic" or mental communication cuts off. Something/someone South of the Wall may have been guiding Jojen until he passes through.
Great vid as always IDG. Personally i have just about zero doubts the Weirwood paste is Jojen. For one Bran has already eaten human flesh , warged into Summer and also likely served such from Coldhands. That pork stew is quite curious as there is no pig or game of that sort in the area (very likely human flesh) ; that and the daily blood stew in the cave with curious meat (also likely human meat) all seems a precursor of what is to come with more cannibalism on the way. Jojen also quite confident in his safety / that he wasn't dying earlier in their journey until he got considerably more sullen in BR's cave / knowing what was coming , his death. Jojen and Meera disappear in the lead up to this feeding also telling. I believe we are also not really told of Weirwood seeds much , coming across them or them being around so i don't think they are a much of thing or at least not prevalent ; ntm the red veiny look and consistency of the paste. There is also a lot of macabre (subtle and not so subtle) word play and foreshadowing in that chapter. Also , in those visions after Bran's eating the paste he sees a Weirwood sacrifice and tastes the blood, literally what Jojen becomes - a Weriwood sacrifice whose blood Bran tastes. There's also earlier incidents of the direwolves growling / potentially trying to eat Jojen , a wolf / Bran eating Jojen imagery. Also , Bran eating actual frogs from Meera quite symbolic , the Crannogmen mocked as "frog eaters" and are somewhat frog-like. Bran even recalls back at WF being told eating frogs will turn you green (teeth and hair) , in this case eating a frog (Jojen) enhances his "green"-sight / makes him more green. Theres also an exchange and word-play from Bran in the cave where he ends his line with the word "meat" and the first word of the next sentence is "Jojen" / Jojen meat. To me its just overwhelming and near irrefutable at this point that the Weirwood paste was indeed Jojen. Dark concept ? extremely but fitting with GRRM who also provides ample clues and foreshadowing for it. And the blood sacrifice we know is a current component with the Weirwoods.
Very well said I don't know how it happened did Jojen just die somewhere in the cave an the children of the forest made it where did they think Jojen went an what happened to him does Meera go looking for him an come back to the cave, so at the end of DWD is Meera still in the cave
I think that saying meat is "pig" when food is scarce is an indicator that it is actual human. "Long pig" is a name given to human flesh to make the idea more tollerable when it's being consumed to survive.
Just to add to that last point, not only does is seem extremely likely, you can ask the question of the story benefits from both options. Jojen paste being true bolsters all of the things you found in the writing while being an interesting and horrifying concept in a rough world. It being teased, but then untrue leads to a lot of unfulfilled foreshadowing and what else?
@@Darbobski good point and I agree , perhaps i didn't word that part as well as i liked but i meant to convey that pork is near impossible to actually be pig. As i said there's no pig or such game in the area (or much game at all) ; seems likely Coldhands procured the flesh of the NW mutineers. That pork , as well as the daily "blood stew" in the cave with curious meat also likely human flesh ; so seems he was already eating human flesh in the lead up to actually eating Jojen. Perhaps wanted to get him used to the taste and texture somewhat and for Bran to beocme less discerning when it comes to any presented food leading up to Jojen paste.
@@jeremyrugg3015 i agree , as usual GRRM likes to leave open multiple possibilities. But in this case he likes to include dark horrific elements in this universe which this matches up with and has left a lot of clues and foreshadowing for it. So for it to not be the case would not be particularly a narratively strong decision and would result in a lot of what would be considered needless work in terms of narrative build up and foreshadowing. Some of which i listed but theres even more ; which if the assumed outcome ended up not being the case would have to question why go through the effort if that outcome didn't come to fruition. And as you say not much narrative benefit if Jojen paste ended up not being the case.
I feel like I’m the only person who doesn’t believe in Jojen Paste. No, I don’t think Jojen was necessarily in the paste. *However* I do believe that weirwood paste contains the blood of *countless* sacrificial offerings - humans, singers, everything - so, Bran did still consume human remains, just not necessarily Jojen’s specifically. That said, I always thought Jojen would sacrifice himself before the Great Weirwood tree a la like in the vision that Bran has at the end of his last chapter in ADwD. Of the three, he’s the only one who follows and absolutely trusts the old ways, while Bran and Meera have always been sceptical. So way, whether he’s the paste (or just one of millions in that paste) I think Jojen’s death will be the catalyst for Bran to think, “I need to dismantle this whole system.”
This theory makes sense. Not at all Tokienesque if you ask me. Time Magazine dubbing Martin the American Tolkien is like dubbing Clive Barker the English Mark Twain.
This video just showed me how much depth those books really have and how much i have overlooked in my first reading. I really wanna reread it once george announces the release date for winds. Gosh i love those books so much
The real kicker is, did Bloodraven get Jojen there through his powers, showing him dying and giving him that purpose or was it actually the predestination as he believes? Was Jojen's sacrifice truly needed? Time will tell.
My opinion is this: both answers are correct. There are multiple possible versions of the future that might be desirable to some people, meaning all of them involve some proportion of humanity surviving the final battle against the enemy. But from the perspective of the Gods, its not enough to just have any of those futures. The Gods and any magical people will be biased towards those pathways that allow them to be involved in the solution and to therefore get some kind of reward or status for their contributions. In other words, this plan was the only way that Bloodraven could do things his way, rather than rely on some other magical person who might be unreliable or problematic.
I think that Hodor's story from the TV series will play out much the same way in the books, suggesting that Bran's powers could extend through time and space... is it ultimately Bran who is moving the Game pieces where they need to be to do the most good from his perspective, whatever that strange, distant perspective might be after his powers are awakened? Jojen's strange, sullen behavior at the end there seems to me like it would be consistent with his realization at the last not just that he'd been groomed for this sacrificial role his entire life - he seems to have already been well aware of that and to have accepted that fate - but that something changed in his time among the Children of the Forest, he'd realized something new that put his impending sacrifice into a whole new light, one that was far more difficult to accept. It would be consistent, I think, with Jojen realizing at the last that his entire life was being manipulated not just by some anonymous force, or some nameless being tied to the trees, but by the future incarnation of the very boy he will be sacrificing himself to and for.... Or maybe not. But, it does seem to me while writing this that, as awful as things can get for the Starks, it's really some of the secondary characters like Jojen, Meera, Jeyne Pool, or Shireen Bratheon who seem to get really screwed by the figurative Game of Thrones: all are pawns to be sacrificed toward some horrific end game so that the Starks may endure a little longer to play their part.... I think poor Jojen can be forgiven at the last for feeling sullen and even disillusioned by the realization that it might well be Bran himself who has groomed him to die as a sacrifice so that Bran may soar....
@@LucasCarter2 Nah I don't think that's true. As a talented writer, he understands that seasons 6 to 8 were written poorly according to any artistic standard. Which means he knows that the fans were angry at how the ending was presented, not really angry at the general ideas such as Kalisi going crazy. Also, the fact that the fans came back to watch the prequel proves to him that his story world hasn't gone down in flames like Star Wars or the MCU.
I feel like this is basically the same for Dany when she drinks the Shade of the Evening. I always got the feeling that Jojen was being strapped into the root system, like those sad tomatoes in the cave root cellar room. It means a distance between him and actual cannibalism. I also get the feeling that Blood Raven is not long for that world-when Bran finds out and feels Hodor flipping out for Meera and Jojen as well himself-I think Bran will kill Blood Raven. Remember the Oath the Reeds swore to Bran and the Oath he swore to the Reeds-and consider that they said those words in front of a Heart Tree. Bran isn't going to allow any harm to the Reeds if he can prevent it. Bran has a pretty strong sense of what feels right-he is NOT going to be well-pleased when Jojen is permantly strapped down or even sacrificed full-on to the root system. I feel like Bran, as written, would try to save Jojen. And if he can't...damn. Bye-Bye, Bryden Rivers and CotF. Bran is experiencing having a crush on Meera through Hodor while developing his own feelings-and Meera is NOT going to take Jojen's expiration calmly. Summer is going to be almost impossible to restrain when you consider how Summer responded to Tyrion. Bran, Hodor and Summer will want to help, comfort, and protect Meera. Jojen too, if possible. Jojen might not die. Not if Bran steps in to fight his "greendream fate" for him. Bran isn't just going to accept that shite or let something bad happen to Jojen if he can prevent it. I feel like Hodor will likely be really OK with this, and this will be when Hodor gets on board with Bran warging him during fight times. I kinda feel like most, if not all, of the CotF in that cave are going to be killed by Bran/Hodor/Summer. Or maybe even just Bran. UNLESS the CotF HELP Bran after Blood Raven dies-something about how Leaf talks...The Children are either going to be glad BR is dead or they are going to try and kill Bran. Something really insane is about to happen in that cave, though. And I also felt like Meera was saying what she wanted when watching Jojen-I got the feeling that Jojen himself was just trying to see and feel the sun and air as much as he could before being being locked into the roots or sacrificed. These adults in ASOIAF that manipulate children to further their own agendas don't seem to end well when those same children figure out they are being tricked in some way. Just look at the guys who f00ked with Dany...The Undying and Mirri.The House of Black and White is on the same path, too. I pity them when Arya finds out they were responsible for Yoren and were prolly hired to kill her father before Joff beat them to it. Makes ya kinda wonder who really gave Joff the idea to snip off Ned's head. I won't get into Rorge and Biter except to say that they seem to be a couple of more agents of the HoBaW, manipulating Arya. They are at least associated with faceless men, if not part of some faction within. I think we KNOW how Arya is going to respond to THAT shite. Even Sansa-Starks in general are about to lay serious waste in many key places. How far is Bran from Hardhome? I kinda feel like Bran and Meera and Summer make it all the way back south of The Wall. Hodor might make most of the same trip. Uncle Benjen is still out there somewhere, too. And Coldhands. I am wondering if they use caves until they hit the wall...and try to maybe use the tree mouth wall door...or if they try for Grendal's cave system? Do they end up winding into the winterfell Crypts? Do The Others follow them? I wonder if Bran can somehow save the Hardhome folk-because there is no way the watch is sending anyone else, now that Jon is dead. The Watch is just as likely to try and force the wildlings back North-which means the Night's watch is about to be decimated, if not annihilated. Whatever is going to happen to move Bran out of that cave though kinda has to happen nowish. I'm guessing we'll learn where Jojen and Meera are as soon as Bran's storyline opens again. Thanks for this video-I have never thought Bran was actually eating Jojen. A closer bet is that Jojen was "given" to the tree/root-cave system. The "cannibalism" would happen through the weirwoods-not directly. Think about what Aeron is going through in the bowels of his brother's ship-and about Dany's experience with SotE. To me, Weirwood paste is more akin to Shade of the Evening. Which also has dead-looking people being "enthroned" in dark, scarey places involved somehow in it's production.
Appreciate the video! I'll be honest, as much as I hear this theory talked about as essentially a given I don't find the evidence particularly strong. It wouldn't shock me if this ends up being the case and it certainly would fit with GRMM's dark tone but I'm not confident that's the case. As much as Jojen talks about knowing when he'll die I just would have thought we'd get some kind of dialogue or warning from Jojen when that day came but if Jojen paste is accurate he just quietly goes to his death and doesn't even warn his sister. As friendly as Howland Reed is with the children of the forest would he knowingly allow them to sacrifice his only son? I'd also expect Bran to get some kind of instant flash of Jojen's life/thoughts like Varamyr got from Thistle but we don't see that in this chapter. I definitely think Jojen's death is imminent but don't know that it's already occured. We've got the 'hold the door' moment coming shortly and Jojen may be fated for an important role.
I completely agree, I think it’s fun and it wouldn’t surprise me if the paste theory was true, but it’s almost like satire how everyone acts as if it’s almost 100% guaranteed to be true lol
@@jasonmendoza2044 I'm thinking that Jojen might not have to die for him to have been a sacrifice for the magic ritual. Nor does he have to be dead for Bran have partaken in ritualistic cannibalism. Jojen not dying there might even be worse.
Another point not addressed is the fact that in the show, Jojen was killed off. Just the fact he was killed off is telling, but when is even more so. He was killed at the entrance of the cave before the group entered, and this was at the end of Season 4, one of the show’s best and when the writers still had book material. And we all know Martin’s already fully covered this in the books. So I ask a question: Why then? Why did they kill Jojen off then, and not in Season 6 when the Walkers attacked the cave? Following logic, that would have to mean Jojen would already be dead at that point in the books. And considering Jojen Paste would probably have been too graphic for television, killing him off solves that problem. And as an extra layer, how does he die on the show? His throat is slit, just like the sacrifice Bran saw in his visions.
Too graphic for television? It was on freaking HBO. I don't think that was it at all. I think they just picked the one most capable of dragging Bran back to the Wall. So they let Meera live. I do think Jojen Paste is real though. D&D likely skipped it because they didn't want Bran to be confused as the bad guy. Just like they skipped Lady Stoneheart to make Jon's resurrection less obvious.
What really wonder in all of this, is what is Bloodravens motivation. And what is the children of the forests agenda? Do they want the best for the seven Kingdom, for themselves, for Bran?
David Lightbringer has compelling videos about Children of the foress, the Others, the sacrifices to weirwood trees etc. Although I don't quite agree with David's whitewashing of Daenerys :)
Yep, I don’t understand why people then believe the red part is people much less the white liquid. It’s chowder with Salmon bits from the river below the sinkhole and tree sap; probably some poppy mixed in.
One reason there's doubt about it is the way we're told that's the best conclusion Bran could reach about it - that it must be sap, if what the Children said about it is true - almost as if there should be doubt about the Children's claim that it was made from "Weirwood seeds". It seems that everything involved with Bran's time among the Children is written that way: double-meanings and word-play, secret horrors left unsaid between the lines, ominous hints at things that the Weirwood trees could teach that seem to hint at something a little more immediate and dark than Bran's wider powers (the trees are, after all, rooted in heaps of sacrificial human bones!), dark foreshadowing of sacrifice and cannibalism, suggestions of dark deeds and dark spells happening just out of Bran's sight, etc. GRR Martin greatly admires the 'Lord of the Rings', with many elements of that story echoed in 'A Song of Ice and Fire', and this meeting with the Children is one of those moments: there's Tolkien's wonderful little scene of Sam at long last meeting the elves after hearing stories about them his entire life, and that experience ends up every bit as wondrous, majestic, enchanting, and magical for Sam as he could have hoped. Here, we have a sort of flip-side to that, with the Children being GRRM's equivalent to the elves: Bran's meeting with the Children after growing up hearing stories about them is no less powerful than Sam's, but the stories that Bran grew up with were nightmarish horror stories, and we get only the faintest hints on-screen that the Children live up to the stories in blood and horror, but off-screen, this meeting is loaded with dark innuendo.... With that innuendo in mind, to go back to the original question: oh, yes - weirwood sap IS blood red, and that's part of the point: beneath those trees, the roots plow deep into soil filled with human bones and human blood, the old seer beneath the tree has the roots running through his own body, the trees almost seem to spring up from heaps of human skulls as if skulls and their grisly contents are the "seeds" of the trees, and the blood of the dead virtually seems to pulse up through the earth, into the very sap of the blood-soaked trees that men and the Children of the Forest once made sacrifice to.... The blood-red sap, the mournful carved faces, and the blood-red, hand-shaped leaves are just part of the foreshadowing that hints at just how dark the story of these trees really gets....
Next up: Is Roose Bolton actually an ancient skinchanger that's been making his son heir to the Dreadfort then taking over son (who genetically can also skin change) and has been repeating this for centuries or longer. Effectively making Bolton a vampire house with an ancient rivalry against the Stark's werewolf house. It could also explain why Bolton's house traditionally practiced the lord's right to Prima Nocta.
If Jojen knew he had to be sacrificed and decided to die, and allowed it to happen in order to give Bran the power to save the world, then it's not an evil act. Tragic, terrifying - but so is the death of everyone fighting against the end of the world.
It certainly questions what "knowing" means. In human culture believing in one all knowing God who isn't really seen as an individual, having that knowledge from them can be treated more like an absolute. But what happens once you remove that and see him as more like a greek god? What are the implications if this all powerful feeling of prophecy, destiny, "knowing", is just like any other human feeling and can be given and manipulated by others? If the children of the forest gave him those visions and that feeling of foretold prophecy to do this, then there can't be consent and he was submitting to something he didn't understand, but felt was greater than himself, when, in reality, it would be like dosing someone with acid, telling them secrets while pretending to be God and then exploiting that later.@@orterves
@@jeremyrugg3015 people are convinced often of the worthiness of self-sacrifice, even without certainty, and it doesn't even take any magic - just words. Sure, if they drugged him up that's evil - but I'm just suggesting the possibility that them sacrificing him isn't necessarily evil in and of itself Assuming free will is in play I think the scenario can be justifiable or at least is not inherently evil.
@@orterves To use words such as "good" and "evil" feels wrong. What even is the side of the good? There is the side of the living and the side of the Others. The crucial thing about the Children of the Forest is them being magic users. With all magic having a cost, often a grave one, anyone using magic extensively is willing to pay that cost repeatedly. Plethora of human remains present there might not be direct evidence but certainly a hint at what kind of powers are at play. The Children of the Forest are on the side of the living, against their own creation, and they don't seem afraid to use whatever means necessary. Blood raven certainly seems to agree with that.
personally i don’t want to believe this because it is so dark, too dark for even this story. which is definitely saying something. what happens to bran is so torturous and horrible that jojen paste feels like an unnecessary cherry on top of a misery pie. If Meera and Jojen are dead, then there’s no hope for Bran without a crazy dues ex machina. And i would like to think that Bran’s story is going somewhere besides turning into a tree after enduring the worst stuff any 10 year old could possibly experience.
I also think that bran is a huge outlier in grrm’s world. He never does anything wrong to be paralyzed and tortured in such a way, in direct contrast to characters like Jaime, Cersei, Jorah, Theon, etc. his story is so unnecessarily cruel and horrible in comparison to the consequences-driven stories that drive the core narrative, and i don’t understand what purpose any of it serves. Bran hasn’t developed as a character, he’s had all of his agency taken away from him, and had no strong character traits in the first place that we as readers could attach to. I wouldn’t be surprised if jojen paste were true, but I’d be disappointed in the direction of brans story
Isn't this one of the major issues at hand, there is a subtexts to Bran's lack of agency. These are the lengths Bloodraven is willing to go because of what he's seen. Additionally this world is cruel, much like our own. Children are killed and brutalised because the men in charge have their aspirations. Humans are the evil the lengths we are willing to go to, that is Bloodraven to a tee. While hand of the king he was sent to the wall for killing a guest he swore no harm to. He will do anything, has been doing everything to contort westeros to prepare for the others and ensure the Azor Ahai prophecy comes to fruition. If Robert's hypothesis is true that also includes pruning his own family tree, this is deep dark Eldrich horror, blood sacrifice and more but really the true horror is the lengths we will go to achieve our goals.
@@pushista9322 this story never made me scared, it just made me feel bad for this poor kid. that’s the only feeling i ever got from brans’ story. it’s simple, blunt, and needlessly cruel, which is totally at odds with the entire rest of the series
@@kwisatzhaderach9087 I really like Brynden’s character and how he’s both enormously self-serving and selfless in equal measure, and how he’s been using awful deeds and black magic to try to save the world. I just don’t like what’s being done with Bran? Does his character solely exist to say something about another character, to be used as a pawn? If so, why have we been following him around for five books? If bran was introduced an ADWD, like quentyn, I guess I’d understand it. but so much time has been dedicated to torturing this kid, and most of it hasn’t been done by bloodraven. It’s been a series of people that bran trusts (Jaime, then Theon, then Brynden (and sort of Jojen)) who betray him for no apparent greater narrative or character purpose. He’s not like Arya who becomes more damaged and distrustful and murderous. Bran still doesn’t understand what’s happening to him. He’s too young to have any sort of character development. And he doesn’t have legs. So besides proving a point about bloodraven, a character only properly introduced in the fifth book, what is the point of Bran? Is it just to make us feel miserable? I have the idea that Bran was originally written with the first chapter and the big hook where he’s thrown from the tower in mind. But then GRRM had no idea what to do with him after that. He gets pushed off to the side more and more as the series goes on , to the point where he only gets like 3 chapters in adwd, and they have nothing to do with anything going on in the main northern story besides one really cool moment with Theon. He feels like the only character that grrm doesn’t have a grasp of, and one without any sort of thematic through line besides just the most nasty, terrible descriptions of cannibalism, loneliness, and paralysis
I've always assumed Bran did consume Jojen, as it fits thematically and narratively, even if not explicitly stated. GRRM's world of magic always requires some kind of sacrifice, whether it is the three leeches Stannis throws in the fire for the three kings, Azor Ahai sacrificing his wife to temper his sword, or Dany sacrificing her unborn child for Drogo and then Drogo for the dragons. Power requires sacrifice, and Jojen was Bran's, even if Bran didn't know it at the time.
Also Lord commandeer Mormont´s raven eating his face. Probably in the magic it has the function of absorbing the eaten´s person memory, hence the trees have red leafs and remember.
Interesting. It suggests the Children and Bloodraven have been luring greenseers to the cave for years to enhance his powers, hence all of the bones. Maybe Bloodraven has been trying to alter the past even more than he lets on.
Great video. I found you via The Witcher, been getting on with the LOTR content and enjoying it, and this is my first ASOIAF video watch from you! If you run out of content, maybe you'll even consider Wheel of Time as a series to tackle. That might last a few decades. Thanks for the very entertaining and smart content.
Blood magic is a very real thing in GoT. But it depends if Bran is going to go the same way in the books as he does in the show. With all emotion gone and he doesn't care about anything. As the shock he just had some Jojen for dinner won't hit home.
I interpreted the dish to be seeds mixed with blood, Jojen's blood. I don't like the idea GRRM would actually have Bran eating human flesh. There's been no hint of cannibalism in the stories
This is probably the best of both worlds - still dark as hell but not as extreme as eating Jojen’s flesh. I guess it’s not quite cannibalism but still a pretty horrible outcome. It also fits the “blood magic” theme in the series more.
Jojen is definitely dead, whether eaten by Bran or sacrificed for some kind of ritual that gives Bran his powers. The real question is - what happened to Meera? Maybe she ran out of the cave to save her brother, tried to stop the ritual/sacrifice, and was killed?
That's certainly possible, or she may be restrained until it's too late to save him. If we know that "Hold the Door" will happen, someone must get Bran out of the cave away from the wights and bring him south again. Meera and/or Coldhands / Uncle Benjen are the most likely candidates.
What do you think of the theory that Bran will be the last villain? (Or what’s left of Bran and not Bloodraven) And that while he’ll be the last king, he will be defeated? Perhaps he will be the one that Jon or Daenerys have to kill near the end of it all.
Yes! The children fed Bran Jojen! If y'all haven't figured it out yet, the Children of the Forest and the 3 eyed Raven are the villains of the story! There is a reason that they were trapped north of the wall and it has to do with their ongoing quest to rid Westeros of humans.
This is a show in which half the protagonists are trying to kill the other half for much pettier reasons than the survival of their species. Wanting to kill the humans wouldn't be nearly enough to make them the bad guys.
Well green mge of course would use bood magic, but it sounds so counterproductive to sacrifice a greenseer to awaken another, no wonders they are almsot extinct
This is a very good point indeed - why isn't jojen the better candidate for the mantle of three eyed crow, rather than bran? Narrative necessity I guess. Does seem an inconsistency.
I sometimes wonder if Bloodraven manipulated Jojen so he'd let this happen. Jojen believes the future he foresees couldn't be changed but what if this was wrong? Could Bloodraven have used his own powers and influence to make it seem this way? (I don't know how plausible this would be and I admit I'm greatly influenced by my distrust of Bloodraven and my dislike for infallible prophecies.)
People tend to view this in two possibilities: change the past, unchangeable past; and just like “Night King vs. Jon” there is a third or more (like Ayra) answers. In this case: you can “change” the past, but better to say effect the past since the past has already happened so whatever you tried brought you to the present. Like in the show, Bran could shout at Ned, as he had always done; but it didn’t change the present since he always was going to do that. Before season one starts Ned had heard a weird voice at the tower of Joy call out, it was future Bran (in past Ned’s perspective, present Bran to Bran). Anyway, Bryden probably isn’t saying you can’t go back, he’s probably saying it won’t change things you know. There is a loophole though… not sure if Bryden knows it.. weirdly Bill and Ted figured it out… you can’t change what you know BUT you can set in motion things to help you in the present or trick your past self into believing wrong things that aren’t true. Example: if the story was only from Bran’s perspective and Ned’s death was only known to the reader and Bran through the letter to Winterfell and the other houses; Bran could discover that he helped fake Ned’s death and now (well then I suppose) needs to send letters reporting Ned being dead so Bran past into present remains unchanged until now. This wouldn’t work since we know Ned’s dead (actually in the book Ned’s living a second life in Illyn Payne but that’s another story, double-tap Stark folks!!!) beyond Bran’s perspective but you get the idea. You can change things but only in a way that makes sense that still becomes the current present but your perspective can be wrong about what has happened and what is happening and what appears to will happen. Also just because someone predicts parts of the future accurately doesn’t exclude them for lying about what they saw or what they didn’t see. Shame on “Minority Report”, Congratulations to “Red Dwarf: Cassandra”!!!
I think it would be hilarious for jojen to appear in dream, unharmed. It really was weirwood seeds, jojen won’t die for a little while, he’s just bummed out because they’re at the place where he dies and now all he can do is wait
If I were GRR then it wouldn't be Jojen but Mira that gets eaten. That Jojen is the one that kills her. Should Jojen know his own death then it makes sense he's aware of Mira's. Jogen's sudden depression could be explained by what he knows has to happen.
The weirwoods eat the blood of the fallen through their roots. Jojen effectively has king's blood which the trees want. While it is possible that the veins in the paste is sap, it is also very possible that by eating it Bran is getting the same power that the trees get but in a more raw and undiluted form. So yes, it could be both weirwood sap and Jojen blood at the same time. Just depends on how it was collected - from Jojen as a bloodletting or from the tree in the way we gain maple syrup. Btw, you can get sick from too much maple syrup or if it is too concentrated. Don't think you get visions from it that wouldn't involve your own death though. Maple overdose would be a horrible way to die.
Haha I thought about this often when Bran was handed the bowl of paste! It reminds me of the scene in “Green Inferno” where one of the imprisoned girls realizes she’s eating out of a bowl made of skin bearing one of her friends tattoos who was taken the previous day… 😂🤮😵💫
This has been one of the most truly devasting most-likely-the-case theories for me. When writing this, I was crying so hard, the tears were pooling up in the rims of my glasses. Poor Meera... I feel such strong empathy for her and it hurts so bad. Her little brother and most likely her best friend had to die in such a horrible, long-dreaded way as part of arcane black magic. ritual. I had flatmates a few years ago who were twins and so much alike, I was one of the five or so people who could tell them apart instantly. The thought of my mate's beloved brother possibly dying adds some personal context
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Maybe the real weirwood paste was the friends we ate along the way
Think it’ll be hard to eat jojen paste?
Yeah ok, you got me. Made me spit out my orange.
This wins the internet for today at the very least.
😭omfg
Talking about friends, apart from the possibility of eating the betrayers at Craster's Keep, Bran definitely ate the meat of Coldhands' elk, a teammember so to speak.
who has a better story than brannibal lecter?
Underrated comment 😂
Brannibal Sterkter
I’m 99% sure he did eat Jojen. Let’s see in 5-10 years
If another book is ever released
If he lives that long 😮
@@RevanMartinez poor of you who haven't read the leaked chapters 😂
hopefully sooner🙏
"Let’s see in 5-10 years" I love your optimism
This theory is a good one for going back over the....sauce material.
That Up North BBQ
aaargh! 🙄
Clearly this gets a piece of the pie when it comes to theories with meat on it.
@@mmyr8ado.360 I dunno, given Bran’s character, I’m not sure it has a leg to stand on
Get out...... you're fired
While there’s a lot of evidence for the Jojen theory, I personally see the weirwood paste as the counterpart to the shade of the evening drink that Dany had in Qarth and turned Euron’s lips blue. The respective trees are color inverted versions of the other, implying some kind of connection. So if shade of the evening trees have a blue sap that gives people visions when eaten, it makes sense that weirwood sap and seeds would have the same effect.
Speaking of, I’d love to see a video talking about the connections between weirwood and shade of the evening trees and the different theories around it.
Seems like Weirwood paste is fresh while Shade of the Evening paste is moldy brains
I remember reading this and always finding it strange that both of them seem to just disappear, but I never considered this a possibility.
I did, I guess I am just suspicious and cynical
The don't technically just "disappear" though. The book just ends. Like we don't know any other storyline. Stop reading into every goddamn sentence GRRM writes FFS.
@@newenglandrider3189 If he wants people to stop overanalysing to pass the time, he should finish Winds of Winter.
@@newenglandrider3189”stop reading into every sentence…” isn’t that like, the point of books?
@@newenglandrider3189they do “technically” disappear though, they just haven’t been gone for long. They make a point of telling us they are surprisingly absent. Just after telling us that he just ate something that looks like blood.
Add to that the fact that the magic in GoT regularly requires blood sacrifices.. too early to tell, sure, but it’s heavily implied.
Robert, yours is some of the best content on TH-cam. Never, not once, have I seen a video of yours in my feed that I wasn't excited to watch - even if I know the topic backwards. Thanks for what you do. 🙂
I came late to the TV show. As I waited for the next season, I binged the books. Then. like many was disappointed in the season. Waiting for Martin's Winter, I discovered this channel last summer. There are lots of YT channels doing analysis or comparison of books and show, but this is much better.
This channel shows how it's done right!!
Gay
I've always thought that Bran's fate is sealed in the tree. He is the new three eye crow, and he has been groomed and brought that far north to replace bloodraven. After he has that dream, at least two characters swear they hear their names in the rustling of the weirwood leaves. Which is also what Osha said is how they speak. He will be influencing things from afar, through mormonts old crow, visions and such. He will never have a POV chapter in my opinion. he is the new bloodraven, and we will have to sieve the pages to find his powerful influence.
That's how I remember it from when I read the book. That he had become part of the tree, and would stay there, not moving physically, but still visting places with that power.
Koo jee esmba papa emba fees weighl fanatagin
What pages? 🤔 that fuckers gonna die before we ever get more pages.
We will never get a POV chapter from bran bc the book will never be released.
Not sure if you noticed (I didn’t until it was pointed out) but right before Jon finds the dire wolves bran hears the trees making noise and the wind rustling things. Jon then hears something nobody else can and finds the wolves.
Bran has been active for a loooong time.
Jojen paste is also convincing when contrasted with the prologue of ADWD... Varamyr six skins established the practice of cannibalism and sexual exploitation via warging, and how his mentor warg dismissed that all as "abomination". The prologue obviously foreshadows how Jon Snow may cheat death via warging into Ghost, but it also has grim parallels to Bran given Jojen paste. Also, Bran subdues Varamyr's one-eyed wolf via Summer, which sort of signals he's inheriting his prior alpha-warg status.
Good insight.. adwd Is rife with plot points of death and resurrection through cannibalization. Also misandei's glamor, spell of Mance/ lord of bones and Davos's finger bones and tc.
@@bc-mv5se Missandei's glamour? Don't you mean Melisandre's?
Me: **Nodding** Yes I understand. **Doesn't understand at all**
@@anaemiliaalmeida7238 'glamour' is one name for a range of illusion spells that blind people with 'glamour'.
Rest In Paste, Lil Jojens😭
The description of what Bran feels when he eats the substance is very similar to what Danny feels when she takes shade of the evening.
There is something so funny about the name "Jojen paste" to me. It just sounds like it's some regular meal and everyone has some Jojen in their kitchen just to use it to make paste.
Jojen is some gourmet food.
One of the things I appreciated about magic in ASOIAF is that it's not something that just happens on a whim, but rather it always comes with a terrible price that someone has to pay. This theory fits that motif.
I always read Myra bolting from Bran as a result of him accidentally touching her mind, he's thinking about warging Hodor and about her at the same time, similar to the wilding woman that Six Skins tries to warg
Seeing as it's a Dark Chapter why not go darker. Bran is no stranger to sex, witnessing it is how he became paralyzed after all. He has also been warging inside an adult male's mind for months now. 100% some of Hodor's instincts and thoughts blended with his, just like with Summer. Prostitutes' are also called "Comfort Women". Bran is also the age where hormones start. So him going over to "Comfort" her could easily be him wanting to F not knowing this was completely messed up. His uncontrolled Green Seer powers could easily have made him transmit the thought to Meera at the same time. Why else would he NEED Hodor? Bran is perfectly able to reach out to her and say "Come here" to just put his arm around her. But to use anything lower than arms he'd need a different body.
Six Skins was trying to *take over* that Wildling woman's body, he wasn't' thinking about warging someone else's body and going over to her. Bran is not trying to take over Meera's body and so there's no reason she would be aware of what he is thinking, at no point does Meera display any telepathic abilities,
@@Mutiny960 Bullshit, when have greenseers ever consciously transmitted their thoughts to anybody who wasn't also a greenseer when that person was awake, first of all. And second of all he's not a rapist.
@@clobberelladoesntreadcomme9920 He repeatedly takes over Hodor's body, ie he inserts himself into hodor's body without permission. You sure Bran is above rape? Think about it he knows Hodor is afraid and not ok with Bran taking over his body but he rationalises it in his own head and hides it from the others.
@@Sstucash The motivations are totally different, the first time Bran does it in the books is to save all their lives when Hodor's frightened noises threaten to reveal the group's hiding place to the wildlings. Then it's to *defend* Meera against the Night's Watch Mutineers (can't remember if show only). I think the purpose of the Varymry Six Skins story is to contrast what Bran does/would do with power, and to emphasize how much guidance he *should* have vs how little he does have since the Andals made the magic of the old gods taboo.
Something the video doesn't address is the way Jojen changes his persona quite sharply. Before passing beneath the Wall, Jojen was always confident, and wise, keeping an eye on the big picture. It was for this Old Nan named Jojen "Little Grandfather". Once they pass the Wall, however, Jojen changes quite dramatically. He becomes sick, weakly, refusing to even eat at one point. He is clearly scared of his future. "Little Grandfather" is long gone.
Insightful
Very accurate. It's very apparent that Jojen becomes legitimately terrified once they pass the Wall, because he knows deep down that his end is nigh. He goes from being wise beyond his years to a scared little boy trapped by large, dark, terrifying things beyond his understanding - and the friend he's leading to them is the one who ends him.
Grim, grim stuff.
Yup that’s a huge thing. He slowly becomes more and more despondent and just…not himself. He knew what was going to happen.
Absolutely. I think I picked that up the first time I read it. Jojen knew what he was headed for, it was only a matter of how.
The Wall's blocking of "magic" or mental communication cuts off. Something/someone South of the Wall may have been guiding Jojen until he passes through.
Great vid as always IDG. Personally i have just about zero doubts the Weirwood paste is Jojen. For one Bran has already eaten human flesh , warged into Summer and also likely served such from Coldhands. That pork stew is quite curious as there is no pig or game of that sort in the area (very likely human flesh) ; that and the daily blood stew in the cave with curious meat (also likely human meat) all seems a precursor of what is to come with more cannibalism on the way. Jojen also quite confident in his safety / that he wasn't dying earlier in their journey until he got considerably more sullen in BR's cave / knowing what was coming , his death. Jojen and Meera disappear in the lead up to this feeding also telling. I believe we are also not really told of Weirwood seeds much , coming across them or them being around so i don't think they are a much of thing or at least not prevalent ; ntm the red veiny look and consistency of the paste. There is also a lot of macabre (subtle and not so subtle) word play and foreshadowing in that chapter.
Also , in those visions after Bran's eating the paste he sees a Weirwood sacrifice and tastes the blood, literally what Jojen becomes - a Weriwood sacrifice whose blood Bran tastes. There's also earlier incidents of the direwolves growling / potentially trying to eat Jojen , a wolf / Bran eating Jojen imagery. Also , Bran eating actual frogs from Meera quite symbolic , the Crannogmen mocked as "frog eaters" and are somewhat frog-like. Bran even recalls back at WF being told eating frogs will turn you green (teeth and hair) , in this case eating a frog (Jojen) enhances his "green"-sight / makes him more green. Theres also an exchange and word-play from Bran in the cave where he ends his line with the word "meat" and the first word of the next sentence is "Jojen" / Jojen meat.
To me its just overwhelming and near irrefutable at this point that the Weirwood paste was indeed Jojen. Dark concept ? extremely but fitting with GRRM who also provides ample clues and foreshadowing for it. And the blood sacrifice we know is a current component with the Weirwoods.
Very well said I don't know how it happened did Jojen just die somewhere in the cave an the children of the forest made it where did they think Jojen went an what happened to him does Meera go looking for him an come back to the cave, so at the end of DWD is Meera still in the cave
I think that saying meat is "pig" when food is scarce is an indicator that it is actual human. "Long pig" is a name given to human flesh to make the idea more tollerable when it's being consumed to survive.
Just to add to that last point, not only does is seem extremely likely, you can ask the question of the story benefits from both options. Jojen paste being true bolsters all of the things you found in the writing while being an interesting and horrifying concept in a rough world. It being teased, but then untrue leads to a lot of unfulfilled foreshadowing and what else?
@@Darbobski good point and I agree , perhaps i didn't word that part as well as i liked but i meant to convey that pork is near impossible to actually be pig. As i said there's no pig or such game in the area (or much game at all) ; seems likely Coldhands procured the flesh of the NW mutineers. That pork , as well as the daily "blood stew" in the cave with curious meat also likely human flesh ; so seems he was already eating human flesh in the lead up to actually eating Jojen. Perhaps wanted to get him used to the taste and texture somewhat and for Bran to beocme less discerning when it comes to any presented food leading up to Jojen paste.
@@jeremyrugg3015 i agree , as usual GRRM likes to leave open multiple possibilities. But in this case he likes to include dark horrific elements in this universe which this matches up with and has left a lot of clues and foreshadowing for it. So for it to not be the case would not be particularly a narratively strong decision and would result in a lot of what would be considered needless work in terms of narrative build up and foreshadowing. Some of which i listed but theres even more ; which if the assumed outcome ended up not being the case would have to question why go through the effort if that outcome didn't come to fruition. And as you say not much narrative benefit if Jojen paste ended up not being the case.
Been a fan for years but had never heard this theory before. Very compelling for sure.
I feel like I’m the only person who doesn’t believe in Jojen Paste. No, I don’t think Jojen was necessarily in the paste. *However* I do believe that weirwood paste contains the blood of *countless* sacrificial offerings - humans, singers, everything - so, Bran did still consume human remains, just not necessarily Jojen’s specifically.
That said, I always thought Jojen would sacrifice himself before the Great Weirwood tree a la like in the vision that Bran has at the end of his last chapter in ADwD. Of the three, he’s the only one who follows and absolutely trusts the old ways, while Bran and Meera have always been sceptical. So way, whether he’s the paste (or just one of millions in that paste) I think Jojen’s death will be the catalyst for Bran to think, “I need to dismantle this whole system.”
You're not alone.
This theory makes sense. Not at all Tokienesque if you ask me. Time Magazine dubbing Martin the American Tolkien is like dubbing Clive Barker the English Mark Twain.
This video just showed me how much depth those books really have and how much i have overlooked in my first reading.
I really wanna reread it once george announces the release date for winds. Gosh i love those books so much
Thank you Robert for explaining this so delicately.
delicatessenically
The real kicker is, did Bloodraven get Jojen there through his powers, showing him dying and giving him that purpose or was it actually the predestination as he believes?
Was Jojen's sacrifice truly needed? Time will tell.
Will time tell?
My opinion is this: both answers are correct. There are multiple possible versions of the future that might be desirable to some people, meaning all of them involve some proportion of humanity surviving the final battle against the enemy. But from the perspective of the Gods, its not enough to just have any of those futures. The Gods and any magical people will be biased towards those pathways that allow them to be involved in the solution and to therefore get some kind of reward or status for their contributions. In other words, this plan was the only way that Bloodraven could do things his way, rather than rely on some other magical person who might be unreliable or problematic.
I think that Hodor's story from the TV series will play out much the same way in the books, suggesting that Bran's powers could extend through time and space... is it ultimately Bran who is moving the Game pieces where they need to be to do the most good from his perspective, whatever that strange, distant perspective might be after his powers are awakened?
Jojen's strange, sullen behavior at the end there seems to me like it would be consistent with his realization at the last not just that he'd been groomed for this sacrificial role his entire life - he seems to have already been well aware of that and to have accepted that fate - but that something changed in his time among the Children of the Forest, he'd realized something new that put his impending sacrifice into a whole new light, one that was far more difficult to accept. It would be consistent, I think, with Jojen realizing at the last that his entire life was being manipulated not just by some anonymous force, or some nameless being tied to the trees, but by the future incarnation of the very boy he will be sacrificing himself to and for....
Or maybe not.
But, it does seem to me while writing this that, as awful as things can get for the Starks, it's really some of the secondary characters like Jojen, Meera, Jeyne Pool, or Shireen Bratheon who seem to get really screwed by the figurative Game of Thrones: all are pawns to be sacrificed toward some horrific end game so that the Starks may endure a little longer to play their part....
I think poor Jojen can be forgiven at the last for feeling sullen and even disillusioned by the realization that it might well be Bran himself who has groomed him to die as a sacrifice so that Bran may soar....
Time won’t tell because the next book is never coming out because GRRM is mad that everyone hates his planned ending and he can’t bother rewriting it.
@@LucasCarter2 Nah I don't think that's true. As a talented writer, he understands that seasons 6 to 8 were written poorly according to any artistic standard. Which means he knows that the fans were angry at how the ending was presented, not really angry at the general ideas such as Kalisi going crazy. Also, the fact that the fans came back to watch the prequel proves to him that his story world hasn't gone down in flames like Star Wars or the MCU.
I just love it when I almost scroll past an IDG video, and then look back at the title like "yeah, it really says that".
I feel like this is basically the same for Dany when she drinks the Shade of the Evening. I always got the feeling that Jojen was being strapped into the root system, like those sad tomatoes in the cave root cellar room. It means a distance between him and actual cannibalism. I also get the feeling that Blood Raven is not long for that world-when Bran finds out and feels Hodor flipping out for Meera and Jojen as well himself-I think Bran will kill Blood Raven. Remember the Oath the Reeds swore to Bran and the Oath he swore to the Reeds-and consider that they said those words in front of a Heart Tree. Bran isn't going to allow any harm to the Reeds if he can prevent it. Bran has a pretty strong sense of what feels right-he is NOT going to be well-pleased when Jojen is permantly strapped down or even sacrificed full-on to the root system. I feel like Bran, as written, would try to save Jojen. And if he can't...damn. Bye-Bye, Bryden Rivers and CotF. Bran is experiencing having a crush on Meera through Hodor while developing his own feelings-and Meera is NOT going to take Jojen's expiration calmly. Summer is going to be almost impossible to restrain when you consider how Summer responded to Tyrion. Bran, Hodor and Summer will want to help, comfort, and protect Meera. Jojen too, if possible. Jojen might not die. Not if Bran steps in to fight his "greendream fate" for him. Bran isn't just going to accept that shite or let something bad happen to Jojen if he can prevent it. I feel like Hodor will likely be really OK with this, and this will be when Hodor gets on board with Bran warging him during fight times. I kinda feel like most, if not all, of the CotF in that cave are going to be killed by Bran/Hodor/Summer. Or maybe even just Bran. UNLESS the CotF HELP Bran after Blood Raven dies-something about how Leaf talks...The Children are either going to be glad BR is dead or they are going to try and kill Bran. Something really insane is about to happen in that cave, though. And I also felt like Meera was saying what she wanted when watching Jojen-I got the feeling that Jojen himself was just trying to see and feel the sun and air as much as he could before being being locked into the roots or sacrificed. These adults in ASOIAF that manipulate children to further their own agendas don't seem to end well when those same children figure out they are being tricked in some way. Just look at the guys who f00ked with Dany...The Undying and Mirri.The House of Black and White is on the same path, too. I pity them when Arya finds out they were responsible for Yoren and were prolly hired to kill her father before Joff beat them to it. Makes ya kinda wonder who really gave Joff the idea to snip off Ned's head. I won't get into Rorge and Biter except to say that they seem to be a couple of more agents of the HoBaW, manipulating Arya. They are at least associated with faceless men, if not part of some faction within. I think we KNOW how Arya is going to respond to THAT shite. Even Sansa-Starks in general are about to lay serious waste in many key places. How far is Bran from Hardhome? I kinda feel like Bran and Meera and Summer make it all the way back south of The Wall. Hodor might make most of the same trip. Uncle Benjen is still out there somewhere, too. And Coldhands. I am wondering if they use caves until they hit the wall...and try to maybe use the tree mouth wall door...or if they try for Grendal's cave system? Do they end up winding into the winterfell Crypts? Do The Others follow them? I wonder if Bran can somehow save the Hardhome folk-because there is no way the watch is sending anyone else, now that Jon is dead. The Watch is just as likely to try and force the wildlings back North-which means the Night's watch is about to be decimated, if not annihilated. Whatever is going to happen to move Bran out of that cave though kinda has to happen nowish. I'm guessing we'll learn where Jojen and Meera are as soon as Bran's storyline opens again. Thanks for this video-I have never thought Bran was actually eating Jojen. A closer bet is that Jojen was "given" to the tree/root-cave system. The "cannibalism" would happen through the weirwoods-not directly. Think about what Aeron is going through in the bowels of his brother's ship-and about Dany's experience with SotE. To me, Weirwood paste is more akin to Shade of the Evening. Which also has dead-looking people being "enthroned" in dark, scarey places involved somehow in it's production.
Appreciate the video! I'll be honest, as much as I hear this theory talked about as essentially a given I don't find the evidence particularly strong. It wouldn't shock me if this ends up being the case and it certainly would fit with GRMM's dark tone but I'm not confident that's the case. As much as Jojen talks about knowing when he'll die I just would have thought we'd get some kind of dialogue or warning from Jojen when that day came but if Jojen paste is accurate he just quietly goes to his death and doesn't even warn his sister. As friendly as Howland Reed is with the children of the forest would he knowingly allow them to sacrifice his only son? I'd also expect Bran to get some kind of instant flash of Jojen's life/thoughts like Varamyr got from Thistle but we don't see that in this chapter. I definitely think Jojen's death is imminent but don't know that it's already occured. We've got the 'hold the door' moment coming shortly and Jojen may be fated for an important role.
I completely agree, I think it’s fun and it wouldn’t surprise me if the paste theory was true, but it’s almost like satire how everyone acts as if it’s almost 100% guaranteed to be true lol
@@jasonmendoza2044
I'm thinking that Jojen might not have to die for him to have been a sacrifice for the magic ritual. Nor does he have to be dead for Bran have partaken in ritualistic cannibalism. Jojen not dying there might even be worse.
Love it Robert. Thanks for keeping GoT alive.
Another point not addressed is the fact that in the show, Jojen was killed off. Just the fact he was killed off is telling, but when is even more so. He was killed at the entrance of the cave before the group entered, and this was at the end of Season 4, one of the show’s best and when the writers still had book material. And we all know Martin’s already fully covered this in the books.
So I ask a question: Why then? Why did they kill Jojen off then, and not in Season 6 when the Walkers attacked the cave? Following logic, that would have to mean Jojen would already be dead at that point in the books. And considering Jojen Paste would probably have been too graphic for television, killing him off solves that problem. And as an extra layer, how does he die on the show? His throat is slit, just like the sacrifice Bran saw in his visions.
Too graphic for television? It was on freaking HBO. I don't think that was it at all. I think they just picked the one most capable of dragging Bran back to the Wall. So they let Meera live. I do think Jojen Paste is real though. D&D likely skipped it because they didn't want Bran to be confused as the bad guy. Just like they skipped Lady Stoneheart to make Jon's resurrection less obvious.
Because they suck at story telling and eating a friend isn’t well received by tv audiences
Hbo has a show called hannibal. Lol like the villian from silence of the lambs
@@narutobankai That Hannibal show was made by NBC, and aired on regular TV. HBO's version would have been far more graphic.
How was this covered in the books when it's not written yet what happens?
I can hear Robert's voice for days! Love your content! Thank you very much
Probably the best explanation of this theory I’ve watched! Thank you!
What really wonder in all of this, is what is Bloodravens motivation. And what is the children of the forests agenda?
Do they want the best for the seven Kingdom, for themselves, for Bran?
David Lightbringer has compelling videos about Children of the foress, the Others, the sacrifices to weirwood trees etc. Although I don't quite agree with David's whitewashing of Daenerys :)
why would they care about the 7 kingdoms? Only were it might line up with their own survival and agenda.
@@pushista9322 I don't think David whitewashes Danaerys. I think he gives her a fair deal.
not even the darkest fan theory for what bran does to a Reed
Do tell...
@@willdavis3802 there is a theory bran will warg into hodor and get it on with his crush meera....and she will not be participating willingly
@@abandonallhope.1040 incel theory bc that's what they would do.
Wow, I was just today thinking about this theory and how awesome it would be if you made a video about it. Thank you!
Isn't weirwood sap blood red, so it make sense to me that there is sap mixed in.
Yep, I don’t understand why people then believe the red part is people much less the white liquid. It’s chowder with Salmon bits from the river below the sinkhole and tree sap; probably some poppy mixed in.
One reason there's doubt about it is the way we're told that's the best conclusion Bran could reach about it - that it must be sap, if what the Children said about it is true - almost as if there should be doubt about the Children's claim that it was made from "Weirwood seeds". It seems that everything involved with Bran's time among the Children is written that way: double-meanings and word-play, secret horrors left unsaid between the lines, ominous hints at things that the Weirwood trees could teach that seem to hint at something a little more immediate and dark than Bran's wider powers (the trees are, after all, rooted in heaps of sacrificial human bones!), dark foreshadowing of sacrifice and cannibalism, suggestions of dark deeds and dark spells happening just out of Bran's sight, etc.
GRR Martin greatly admires the 'Lord of the Rings', with many elements of that story echoed in 'A Song of Ice and Fire', and this meeting with the Children is one of those moments: there's Tolkien's wonderful little scene of Sam at long last meeting the elves after hearing stories about them his entire life, and that experience ends up every bit as wondrous, majestic, enchanting, and magical for Sam as he could have hoped. Here, we have a sort of flip-side to that, with the Children being GRRM's equivalent to the elves: Bran's meeting with the Children after growing up hearing stories about them is no less powerful than Sam's, but the stories that Bran grew up with were nightmarish horror stories, and we get only the faintest hints on-screen that the Children live up to the stories in blood and horror, but off-screen, this meeting is loaded with dark innuendo....
With that innuendo in mind, to go back to the original question: oh, yes - weirwood sap IS blood red, and that's part of the point: beneath those trees, the roots plow deep into soil filled with human bones and human blood, the old seer beneath the tree has the roots running through his own body, the trees almost seem to spring up from heaps of human skulls as if skulls and their grisly contents are the "seeds" of the trees, and the blood of the dead virtually seems to pulse up through the earth, into the very sap of the blood-soaked trees that men and the Children of the Forest once made sacrifice to....
The blood-red sap, the mournful carved faces, and the blood-red, hand-shaped leaves are just part of the foreshadowing that hints at just how dark the story of these trees really gets....
Bran is like this shit tastes like bloody bitter nasty...then yum random memories
Next up: Is Roose Bolton actually an ancient skinchanger that's been making his son heir to the Dreadfort then taking over son (who genetically can also skin change) and has been repeating this for centuries or longer. Effectively making Bolton a vampire house with an ancient rivalry against the Stark's werewolf house. It could also explain why Bolton's house traditionally practiced the lord's right to Prima Nocta.
I think it's clear George at least wants readers to THINK that.
This would fit nicely with the evil children of the forest theories
If Jojen knew he had to be sacrificed and decided to die, and allowed it to happen in order to give Bran the power to save the world, then it's not an evil act. Tragic, terrifying - but so is the death of everyone fighting against the end of the world.
It certainly questions what "knowing" means. In human culture believing in one all knowing God who isn't really seen as an individual, having that knowledge from them can be treated more like an absolute. But what happens once you remove that and see him as more like a greek god? What are the implications if this all powerful feeling of prophecy, destiny, "knowing", is just like any other human feeling and can be given and manipulated by others?
If the children of the forest gave him those visions and that feeling of foretold prophecy to do this, then there can't be consent and he was submitting to something he didn't understand, but felt was greater than himself, when, in reality, it would be like dosing someone with acid, telling them secrets while pretending to be God and then exploiting that later.@@orterves
@@jeremyrugg3015 people are convinced often of the worthiness of self-sacrifice, even without certainty, and it doesn't even take any magic - just words. Sure, if they drugged him up that's evil - but I'm just suggesting the possibility that them sacrificing him isn't necessarily evil in and of itself
Assuming free will is in play I think the scenario can be justifiable or at least is not inherently evil.
@@orterves
To use words such as "good" and "evil" feels wrong. What even is the side of the good? There is the side of the living and the side of the Others. The crucial thing about the Children of the Forest is them being magic users. With all magic having a cost, often a grave one, anyone using magic extensively is willing to pay that cost repeatedly. Plethora of human remains present there might not be direct evidence but certainly a hint at what kind of powers are at play.
The Children of the Forest are on the side of the living, against their own creation, and they don't seem afraid to use whatever means necessary. Blood raven certainly seems to agree with that.
personally i don’t want to believe this because it is so dark, too dark for even this story. which is definitely saying something. what happens to bran is so torturous and horrible that jojen paste feels like an unnecessary cherry on top of a misery pie. If Meera and Jojen are dead, then there’s no hope for Bran without a crazy dues ex machina. And i would like to think that Bran’s story is going somewhere besides turning into a tree after enduring the worst stuff any 10 year old could possibly experience.
I also think that bran is a huge outlier in grrm’s world. He never does anything wrong to be paralyzed and tortured in such a way, in direct contrast to characters like Jaime, Cersei, Jorah, Theon, etc. his story is so unnecessarily cruel and horrible in comparison to the consequences-driven stories that drive the core narrative, and i don’t understand what purpose any of it serves. Bran hasn’t developed as a character, he’s had all of his agency taken away from him, and had no strong character traits in the first place that we as readers could attach to. I wouldn’t be surprised if jojen paste were true, but I’d be disappointed in the direction of brans story
@@prelife9152 It's just a different genre, namely a horror story. Martin weaves different character arcs in different genres.
Isn't this one of the major issues at hand, there is a subtexts to Bran's lack of agency.
These are the lengths Bloodraven is willing to go because of what he's seen.
Additionally this world is cruel, much like our own. Children are killed and brutalised because the men in charge have their aspirations.
Humans are the evil the lengths we are willing to go to, that is Bloodraven to a tee. While hand of the king he was sent to the wall for killing a guest he swore no harm to. He will do anything, has been doing everything to contort westeros to prepare for the others and ensure the Azor Ahai prophecy comes to fruition.
If Robert's hypothesis is true that also includes pruning his own family tree, this is deep dark Eldrich horror, blood sacrifice and more but really the true horror is the lengths we will go to achieve our goals.
@@pushista9322 this story never made me scared, it just made me feel bad for this poor kid. that’s the only feeling i ever got from brans’ story. it’s simple, blunt, and needlessly cruel, which is totally at odds with the entire rest of the series
@@kwisatzhaderach9087 I really like Brynden’s character and how he’s both enormously self-serving and selfless in equal measure, and how he’s been using awful deeds and black magic to try to save the world. I just don’t like what’s being done with Bran? Does his character solely exist to say something about another character, to be used as a pawn? If so, why have we been following him around for five books? If bran was introduced an ADWD, like quentyn, I guess I’d understand it. but so much time has been dedicated to torturing this kid, and most of it hasn’t been done by bloodraven. It’s been a series of people that bran trusts (Jaime, then Theon, then Brynden (and sort of Jojen)) who betray him for no apparent greater narrative or character purpose. He’s not like Arya who becomes more damaged and distrustful and murderous. Bran still doesn’t understand what’s happening to him. He’s too young to have any sort of character development. And he doesn’t have legs. So besides proving a point about bloodraven, a character only properly introduced in the fifth book, what is the point of Bran? Is it just to make us feel miserable?
I have the idea that Bran was originally written with the first chapter and the big hook where he’s thrown from the tower in mind. But then GRRM had no idea what to do with him after that. He gets pushed off to the side more and more as the series goes on , to the point where he only gets like 3 chapters in adwd, and they have nothing to do with anything going on in the main northern story besides one really cool moment with Theon. He feels like the only character that grrm doesn’t have a grasp of, and one without any sort of thematic through line besides just the most nasty, terrible descriptions of cannibalism, loneliness, and paralysis
Your voice relieves my stress!!!
I've always assumed Bran did consume Jojen, as it fits thematically and narratively, even if not explicitly stated. GRRM's world of magic always requires some kind of sacrifice, whether it is the three leeches Stannis throws in the fire for the three kings, Azor Ahai sacrificing his wife to temper his sword, or Dany sacrificing her unborn child for Drogo and then Drogo for the dragons.
Power requires sacrifice, and Jojen was Bran's, even if Bran didn't know it at the time.
I noticed if you look at the asoiaf wiki for Jojen Paste, the red ribbons of blood matches the flowing blood in the HotD intro perfectly.
Okay, this is my favorite video title ever.
It would be nice if any of these theories had a chance of being validated or resolved in any way.
Also Lord commandeer Mormont´s raven eating his face. Probably in the magic it has the function of absorbing the eaten´s person memory, hence the trees have red leafs and remember.
Was always disappointed the whole weirdwood network wasnt explored in the tv series. Btw thanx 4 that, Robert.
Solent Green is people!
Jojen’s Bizarre Adventures
To some, frog is a delicacy...
You help me through this long night. Thank you. I think he does
With all the eating of people, can we call Bran Cannibran now?
Interesting. It suggests the Children and Bloodraven have been luring greenseers to the cave for years to enhance his powers, hence all of the bones.
Maybe Bloodraven has been trying to alter the past even more than he lets on.
Thank you for saying "an horrific" instead of "a horrific". A small point, but noted!
"There is something inside you... It's hard to explain...", Said Leaf to Bran, about the paste he ate...
I've been thinking about reading A Song of Ice and Fire. Partially because I figure it'll have a better ending than Game of Thrones.
Yes. Also Dunk and Egg are absolutely fantastic 😊
Ending?
I do recommend reading the main books, and then the other in-universe material. You won't get the ending, but it's still worthwhile.
Sliver of the moon and three stars means it's the sabbath day,the four phases of the moon signal the sabbath.
Great video. I found you via The Witcher, been getting on with the LOTR content and enjoying it, and this is my first ASOIAF video watch from you! If you run out of content, maybe you'll even consider Wheel of Time as a series to tackle. That might last a few decades. Thanks for the very entertaining and smart content.
Given Martins reluctance to finish TWoW and eagerness to work on other things, it feels unlikely we will ever get an end to this story
Jojen of House Paste, first of his taste.
Blood magic is a very real thing in GoT. But it depends if Bran is going to go the same way in the books as he does in the show. With all emotion gone and he doesn't care about anything. As the shock he just had some Jojen for dinner won't hit home.
Isn't his full name Bran the Fiberous?
I interpreted the dish to be seeds mixed with blood, Jojen's blood. I don't like the idea GRRM would actually have Bran eating human flesh. There's been no hint of cannibalism in the stories
This is probably the best of both worlds - still dark as hell but not as extreme as eating Jojen’s flesh. I guess it’s not quite cannibalism but still a pretty horrible outcome. It also fits the “blood magic” theme in the series more.
There absolutely has been hints of cannibalism in the story, some of them were pointed out in this very video...
Correct there is blatant cannibalism
I always thought he was headed to being the new Night King. Not a wise old lonely man hiding in the woods. He’s a Stark.
I have a rule- when there is nothing testifying against the theory and its really cool and makes the story better- its my head cannon
I’ve been waiting so long to hear “Jojen paste” in Robert’s voice
King Bran the Cannibal and New Tool of the Supposed Creators of the Others, the perfect choice for a peaceful, pleasant Westeros.
Jojen is definitely dead, whether eaten by Bran or sacrificed for some kind of ritual that gives Bran his powers. The real question is - what happened to Meera? Maybe she ran out of the cave to save her brother, tried to stop the ritual/sacrifice, and was killed?
That's certainly possible, or she may be restrained until it's too late to save him. If we know that "Hold the Door" will happen, someone must get Bran out of the cave away from the wights and bring him south again. Meera and/or Coldhands / Uncle Benjen are the most likely candidates.
It’s the Manwhich of the Forest!
It kinda echoes Danny having to lose Drogo to hatch the dragons. Blood magic has a cost, and that cost is high.
Will GRRM ever finish the books? EVER?
What do you think of the theory that Bran will be the last villain? (Or what’s left of Bran and not Bloodraven) And that while he’ll be the last king, he will be defeated? Perhaps he will be the one that Jon or Daenerys have to kill near the end of it all.
Yes! The children fed Bran Jojen!
If y'all haven't figured it out yet, the Children of the Forest and the 3 eyed Raven are the villains of the story!
There is a reason that they were trapped north of the wall and it has to do with their ongoing quest to rid Westeros of humans.
This is a show in which half the protagonists are trying to kill the other half for much pettier reasons than the survival of their species. Wanting to kill the humans wouldn't be nearly enough to make them the bad guys.
bro i love your videos and your narration
Well green mge of course would use bood magic, but it sounds so counterproductive to sacrifice a greenseer to awaken another, no wonders they are almsot extinct
This is a very good point indeed - why isn't jojen the better candidate for the mantle of three eyed crow, rather than bran? Narrative necessity I guess. Does seem an inconsistency.
@@jimdoom2276Quite simply because Jojen is NOT a Stark. Remember our theme, Fire and Ice!
Oh, thank God!… I was terrified there was gonna be some original content
Bran had been set up to break all the taboos of Warging...he just hasn't done the last yet (though that is assuming Jojen paste is true)
the moon was as sharp as a knife
Jojen Paste... it is known
It seems kinda wasteful to kill an entire Jojen when that paste clearly needed only some blood, not the full 5 liters...
I sometimes wonder if Bloodraven manipulated Jojen so he'd let this happen. Jojen believes the future he foresees couldn't be changed but what if this was wrong? Could Bloodraven have used his own powers and influence to make it seem this way?
(I don't know how plausible this would be and I admit I'm greatly influenced by my distrust of Bloodraven and my dislike for infallible prophecies.)
People tend to view this in two possibilities: change the past, unchangeable past; and just like “Night King vs. Jon” there is a third or more (like Ayra) answers.
In this case: you can “change” the past, but better to say effect the past since the past has already happened so whatever you tried brought you to the present. Like in the show, Bran could shout at Ned, as he had always done; but it didn’t change the present since he always was going to do that. Before season one starts Ned had heard a weird voice at the tower of Joy call out, it was future Bran (in past Ned’s perspective, present Bran to Bran).
Anyway, Bryden probably isn’t saying you can’t go back, he’s probably saying it won’t change things you know. There is a loophole though… not sure if Bryden knows it.. weirdly Bill and Ted figured it out… you can’t change what you know BUT you can set in motion things to help you in the present or trick your past self into believing wrong things that aren’t true.
Example: if the story was only from Bran’s perspective and Ned’s death was only known to the reader and Bran through the letter to Winterfell and the other houses; Bran could discover that he helped fake Ned’s death and now (well then I suppose) needs to send letters reporting Ned being dead so Bran past into present remains unchanged until now. This wouldn’t work since we know Ned’s dead (actually in the book Ned’s living a second life in Illyn Payne but that’s another story, double-tap Stark folks!!!) beyond Bran’s perspective but you get the idea. You can change things but only in a way that makes sense that still becomes the current present but your perspective can be wrong about what has happened and what is happening and what appears to will happen.
Also just because someone predicts parts of the future accurately doesn’t exclude them for lying about what they saw or what they didn’t see.
Shame on “Minority Report”, Congratulations to “Red Dwarf: Cassandra”!!!
I sure hope so!
Imagine believing in something so much you let yourself be eaten...
I think it would be hilarious for jojen to appear in dream, unharmed. It really was weirwood seeds, jojen won’t die for a little while, he’s just bummed out because they’re at the place where he dies and now all he can do is wait
Clicking on this just as I'm eating.........O.o
Tragic (and gross) as this ending is, it's still more dignified than how he went out on the show.
If I were GRR then it wouldn't be Jojen but Mira that gets eaten. That Jojen is the one that kills her. Should Jojen know his own death then it makes sense he's aware of Mira's. Jogen's sudden depression could be explained by what he knows has to happen.
Jojen is gonna be on the first page of winds who wants this bet
I will be honestly SHOCKED if Jojen Paste doesn't turn out to be true. The cannibalism themes in ADWD were SO STRONG
The weirwoods eat the blood of the fallen through their roots. Jojen effectively has king's blood which the trees want. While it is possible that the veins in the paste is sap, it is also very possible that by eating it Bran is getting the same power that the trees get but in a more raw and undiluted form.
So yes, it could be both weirwood sap and Jojen blood at the same time. Just depends on how it was collected - from Jojen as a bloodletting or from the tree in the way we gain maple syrup.
Btw, you can get sick from too much maple syrup or if it is too concentrated. Don't think you get visions from it that wouldn't involve your own death though. Maple overdose would be a horrible way to die.
I always assumed this is what happened, never crossed my mind that it isn't
I had a Jojen sandwich and stew, it was lovely
"The Moon was a crescent, thin and sharp as the blade of a knife."
TH-cam: *interrupts the video with a commercial for Gillette razors*
I feel like the books are going to be unrecognizable from the later seasons of the show
What i want to know is, did Jojen eat bran?
Well bran makes you go regular.
Haha I thought about this often when Bran was handed the bowl of paste! It reminds me of the scene in “Green Inferno” where one of the imprisoned girls realizes she’s eating out of a bowl made of skin bearing one of her friends tattoos who was taken the previous day… 😂🤮😵💫
This has been one of the most truly devasting most-likely-the-case theories for me. When writing this, I was crying so hard, the tears were pooling up in the rims of my glasses. Poor Meera... I feel such strong empathy for her and it hurts so bad. Her little brother and most likely her best friend had to die in such a horrible, long-dreaded way as part of arcane black magic. ritual. I had flatmates a few years ago who were twins and so much alike, I was one of the five or so people who could tell them apart instantly. The thought of my mate's beloved brother possibly dying adds some personal context
Did Meera run off because he inadvertently started to probe into her mind when thinking about warging and her at the same time?
Hm
I can't even remember this section. But then again ADWD was sluggish reading and I had to struggle through it.
Stephen King meets George R.R. Martin. Sends chills down my spine……
Such a good video!
Great video
Being killed sucks, but the idea of being killed AND EATEN sends shivers down my spine. There is something truly horrifying about man-eating.