Does the inverter mounted on the bacl of such a panel impact the light gathering characteristics?? Would it not be better to ensure all cables and inverters don’t block light from hitting the underside solar cells??
The blocking of the back of the panel is so minimal that it doesn't really make a difference. The micro-inverters are attached in the same spot when they're attached to the railing so this wouldn't be any different since they block the same surface area.
The 440W PV output / 380W inverter output seems be taking into account pretty-normal 90% efficiency, which is practical. What the biface does for you is slightly boost your output in less-ideal insolation, so even though the first face might drop below 440W, support from the second face should keep the inverter at 380W a little longer than it would with only once face, and give you a little extra as sunlight dims further. You'll never get the full benefit of biface (alleged 30% for some panels, so potentially 570W for a 440W per-face?) in full sunlight though, because of the microinverter limit. There's a slightly sad pragmatism creeping into Renewable Energy which means we're happily accepting lower utilisation of components / opportunity *because there's no way of reliably utilising peak performance*. Pragmatism has its benefits, once you've talked yourself round.
Lots of good information in this video. Overall, I am generally not in favor of removing modularity even if the warranty is reasonable, the hassle factor of the lack of modularity makes it annoying. Thanks for the video.
A few individuals have tested this (far from lab conditions) but so far haven't seen much difference. This is something we've been looking into testing ourselves but need the right property and conditions to test it on!
@@Heatable Is there a difference between the bifacials you use and those of other manufacturers? when I have been looking into bifacial in general they emphasise its light coming from the back while you emphasise the light passing through the cells. Are there different optimisations in play here? On another note, have you considered looking into domestic wind turbines? There are some interesting models around these days and I'm considering a turbine to compliment solar when I'm project ready.
@@tangent2658 Hi - thanks for your question. There is varying opinions on bi-facial tech, some take the view that they are only beneficial when on ground mount systems, some favour them on standard roof mounting. The REA is a little different in that the back sheet is clear which allows more light to transverse to the rear. The cells in the REA panel are also HJT which enable more low light production. We only ever quote the front sheet performance when designing systems for customers, everything on the back is upside of any approved methodology for savings and benefits. We have not done any testing with turbines and read mixed reports. We'd love to learn more about any domestic applications, successful or not.
@@Heatable Thank you. I was wondering about the performance metrics. so bonus there. Quite a few decent residential wind systems on the market now but not the best info on them. the rosepetle omidirectionals look good and there are some ridge mounted stems that look promising.
Sound like a good idea on paper but it's interesting that lack of modularity is being sold as a positive. Should something go wrong with just a micro inverter, the whole inverter and panel assembly will be 'scrapped' and replaced.. fine from a customer pov whilst in warranty, but there is the downside of unnecessary landfill in my opinion. Further, outside of warranty (yes it's a long time away) then a replacement of the entire unit is far more costly to the end user, so definite negative at that point. Appreciate all the content and in depth technical explanations though!
Looks like the inverter is in a cradle that is bonded to the back of the panel so if the inverter were to go down it could be unclipped and replaced, I think
@@billbobaggings1505 It does put you in an 'iMac component not the same as PC component' position though, unless the cradles themselves are standardised across suppliers - in which case I guess what you really have is a separate panel and microinverter after all...
So when the inverter fails as there’s always 1 in a batch a few years down the road, time will move on and so do the pannels which by the time may be 500+ with the original discontinued, will they swap the panel with the equivalent as that could be the iq9 or even 10 by then and more than likely higher output solar pannels by then ,as well. given that enphase has with other models brought back and replaced with the iq7 in the past and altered its cabling over time what happens if newer pannels require a different main string cable etc and rest of rig compatibility or just remove the inverter and use one from storage, as if the cable gets altered requing a heavier gage , what will happen to the rest of the incompatible cable run , given there integrated will they be replaced to the newer panel’s as well
A warranty is a warranty, so depending on what evolutions have happened with the micro-inverters this would be taken into account. The new IQ8's have a lot of life in them yet, so it's hard to say what will be available in 25 years and how things will have changed...
Enphase app has ropey connection to its servers for users, often can’t connect with large time gaps in service. I know it’s Enphase as my Alpha battery app works great all the time.
I have a Huasun HJT bifacial double-glass panels but on a ground mount, facing south, 45 degrees and with string off-grid inverter (also tested with Victron MPPT controller), panels rated 440W and on a partially cloudy day produced 461W peak without any white or reflective material underneath (but it's coming soon). Going also to put them as a solar roof over a terrace. 👍 BTW Not sure if gluing a microinverter to a bifacial panel glass is a proper way to go - it should be attached in a way allowing for ventilation - microinverter cooling (away from the glass) to avoid overheating also obscuring as little of the panel surface as possible. Regards
Send me one for free so i can stop polluting air to turn my lights on and save little kids from getting asma if you really like kids you will come and install it for me for free .
Is there a cost saving to the customer when using these integrated panels over separate REA panels and Enphase micro inverters ?
This is a premium product so it's actually more expensive!
Does the inverter mounted on the bacl of such a panel impact the light gathering characteristics?? Would it not be better to ensure all cables and inverters don’t block light from hitting the underside solar cells??
The blocking of the back of the panel is so minimal that it doesn't really make a difference. The micro-inverters are attached in the same spot when they're attached to the railing so this wouldn't be any different since they block the same surface area.
I recommend it to my family member,you going to install soon in Newport Risca.
The 440W PV output / 380W inverter output seems be taking into account pretty-normal 90% efficiency, which is practical. What the biface does for you is slightly boost your output in less-ideal insolation, so even though the first face might drop below 440W, support from the second face should keep the inverter at 380W a little longer than it would with only once face, and give you a little extra as sunlight dims further. You'll never get the full benefit of biface (alleged 30% for some panels, so potentially 570W for a 440W per-face?) in full sunlight though, because of the microinverter limit. There's a slightly sad pragmatism creeping into Renewable Energy which means we're happily accepting lower utilisation of components / opportunity *because there's no way of reliably utilising peak performance*. Pragmatism has its benefits, once you've talked yourself round.
Lots of good information in this video. Overall, I am generally not in favor of removing modularity even if the warranty is reasonable, the hassle factor of the lack of modularity makes it annoying.
Thanks for the video.
Thanks for your comment!
Have you done tests to see what happens with the bifacials if you paint the underside of the roof white? or add a vinal strip to the roof tiles etc
A few individuals have tested this (far from lab conditions) but so far haven't seen much difference. This is something we've been looking into testing ourselves but need the right property and conditions to test it on!
@@Heatable Is there a difference between the bifacials you use and those of other manufacturers? when I have been looking into bifacial in general they emphasise its light coming from the back while you emphasise the light passing through the cells. Are there different optimisations in play here?
On another note, have you considered looking into domestic wind turbines? There are some interesting models around these days and I'm considering a turbine to compliment solar when I'm project ready.
@@tangent2658 Hi - thanks for your question. There is varying opinions on bi-facial tech, some take the view that they are only beneficial when on ground mount systems, some favour them on standard roof mounting. The REA is a little different in that the back sheet is clear which allows more light to transverse to the rear. The cells in the REA panel are also HJT which enable more low light production.
We only ever quote the front sheet performance when designing systems for customers, everything on the back is upside of any approved methodology for savings and benefits.
We have not done any testing with turbines and read mixed reports. We'd love to learn more about any domestic applications, successful or not.
@@Heatable Thank you. I was wondering about the performance metrics. so bonus there. Quite a few decent residential wind systems on the market now but not the best info on them. the rosepetle omidirectionals look good and there are some ridge mounted stems that look promising.
Sound like a good idea on paper but it's interesting that lack of modularity is being sold as a positive.
Should something go wrong with just a micro inverter, the whole inverter and panel assembly will be 'scrapped' and replaced.. fine from a customer pov whilst in warranty, but there is the downside of unnecessary landfill in my opinion.
Further, outside of warranty (yes it's a long time away) then a replacement of the entire unit is far more costly to the end user, so definite negative at that point.
Appreciate all the content and in depth technical explanations though!
Looks like the inverter is in a cradle that is bonded to the back of the panel so if the inverter were to go down it could be unclipped and replaced, I think
@@billbobaggings1505 It does put you in an 'iMac component not the same as PC component' position though, unless the cradles themselves are standardised across suppliers - in which case I guess what you really have is a separate panel and microinverter after all...
The inverter itself would be replaced in the event of something failing so it wouldn't mean a full panel replacement 🙂
So when the inverter fails as there’s always 1 in a batch a few years down the road, time will move on and so do the pannels which by the time may be 500+ with the original discontinued, will they swap the panel with the equivalent as that could be the iq9 or even 10 by then and more than likely higher output solar pannels by then ,as well. given that enphase has with other models brought back and replaced with the iq7 in the past and altered its cabling over time what happens if newer pannels require a different main string cable etc and rest of rig compatibility or just remove the inverter and use one from storage, as if the cable gets altered requing a heavier gage , what will happen to the rest of the incompatible cable run , given there integrated will they be replaced to the newer panel’s as well
A warranty is a warranty, so depending on what evolutions have happened with the micro-inverters this would be taken into account. The new IQ8's have a lot of life in them yet, so it's hard to say what will be available in 25 years and how things will have changed...
Are the microinverters and panel made in China?
You saying they're attached to each other in Australia?
Excellent news 😊. Enphase gives just great quality, warranty, and customer service.
Enphase app has ropey connection to its servers for users, often can’t connect with large time gaps in service. I know it’s Enphase as my Alpha battery app works great all the time.
I have a Huasun HJT bifacial double-glass panels but on a ground mount, facing south, 45 degrees and with string off-grid inverter (also tested with Victron MPPT controller), panels rated 440W and on a partially cloudy day produced 461W peak without any white or reflective material underneath (but it's coming soon). Going also to put them as a solar roof over a terrace. 👍 BTW Not sure if gluing a microinverter to a bifacial panel glass is a proper way to go - it should be attached in a way allowing for ventilation - microinverter cooling (away from the glass) to avoid overheating also obscuring as little of the panel surface as possible. Regards
This ACM has been rigorously tested to ensure no overheating would take place - but it's good to hear other thoughts on it!
Excellent product
Have prices gone up recently?? I did an online quote for 6 panels a few months ago £5k plus scaff
Now same seems to be £7k ??
Send me one for free so i can stop polluting air to turn my lights on and save little kids from getting asma if you really like kids you will come and install it for me for free .
😂😂
@@Heatable do you need my adress