"Who ya gonna trust?" The track record of each company is important: 1) How many units have they been asked to replace, and of that, what percentage did they replace. 2) Does replacement include labor? 3) Are the numbers accurate (as in disinterested 3rd party certification)? A lesser consideration is the politics of economics; will the importation of repair parts (whole modules, etc.) be possible, regulated, taxed, etc. differently than when the system is installed? And let's not forget the old motto of Buy Local when possible. From what I've seen, the Chinese companies have improved the quality of there builds over the past few decades. There is a Spanish company building hybrid units that draw the heat of the unit for domestic use, co-generators on your roof... Best of luck to you and keep doing quality videos.
I saw someone do some bifacial tests here on youtube with high-angle ground-mount and various surfaces to compare albedos. He found 2-10% extra generation (IIRC), and whiter surfaces made a significant difference. So yeah, 30% is going to be with carefully-angled mirrors behind and not very relevant to real world. But ultimately missing the back-sheet off is cheaper and adds efficiency so is clearly a good idea.
Makes sense. The other consideration is that it is likely that the technology will have significantly advanced in 10 years, so in all reality whatever you buy will be effectively obsolete way before any warranty. That begs the question haunting me, to wait or not to wait!
Ultimately, it's an investment. I think it comes down to what's the best use of your money at the moment (assuming that's your main motivation for solar). The IRR of a solar system is pretty similar now to what it was a few years ago (unless you happened to get on the early FiT scheme). You do get a few years where solar returns do incredibly well as a result of massive electricity price spikes. Currently, the IRR for domestic solar PV & battery system tends to range from 9% to 16% depending on how much electricity you use and how big the system is, and how much it costs. It's also very easy to swap the panels out 10 years later - just put some scaffolding up and replace them, as well as maybe the inverter if that needs replacing. Not too expensive to do. Technology is always progressing. I feel the same way every year about the latest iPhone haha! -Tok
They wouldn’t make the list of top panels. You can integrate a Longi 435W ABC all black with GSE and it’s far more cost effective. Viridian are great systems that we do recommend completely, but the panels themselves aren’t special. -Tok
Quick question. Aesthetically out of a dozen black panels of Aiko, REC and SunPower installed on a 45 degree pitch roof what make of panel would look the best or is there no visible difference?
@@johnchambers6272 Thank you for the kind comment and subscription. In terms of aesthetics, you won't be able to tell the difference unless you're directly below them and focussing on them. In the video, you'll see that the JA and Trina panels have silver bus bars, but these are pretty much invisible on the roof. The Aiko and SunPowers do look a more "deep black" but ultimately you won't notice the difference unless focussing on it.
Two and a half years ago I called them for a quote and when I asked about other panel options I was dismissed with a tone of attitude. How things changed during that time; their boss got now the panels I had installed two years ago and Sunpower went bankrupt.
Hi, I do apologise if you had a bad experience with us - that’s certainly not acceptable. A few years ago, SunPower were certainly the market leaders and were worth the premium price tag that they came with because they had 400W panels and a 25 year warranty while the rest of the industry were manufacturing 250-300W panels with 12 year warranties. In the past three years, the playing field has levelled and SunPower are no longer competitive, hence the bankruptcy. As this video demonstrates, there isn’t much of a benefit to the paying the premium price for their products. I apologise again, and thank you for watching the channel. -Tok
i am getting soon when my house is mine in few weeks iam getting 12 Aiko Neostar 2S 455W All Black ABC N-Type Mono Panels 6 for front house and 6 on back because of the way my house is facing with a 10.64kWh Sunsynk Battery Storage (90% Usable) with bird protection for £9635 is that good price
That sounds like a worryingly cheap price. I’d be slightly concerned over how cheap. Have you done a detailed background check and research into the installer? -Tok
Aiko Neostar 2S N-Type 455W 20 panels also on 2 sides of roof. Tigo TS4-A-O Optimisers x10 Fox KH1 10.0kW Hybrid Inverter Fox EP5 10.4kWh HV Battery (2x 5.18kWh batteries) Bird Protection Got the price through Solar Together Berkshire group buying scheme £11,800
@@Tom-mb2ch if my roof could hold more then around 12 Aiko Neostar 2S N-Type 455W i would of like more even thou atm we not need coz only use 3300kw a year but wanted future proof myself
Im in the states and when I got my panels installed the company told me that they dont like to install any panel over 380w on a roof for residential panels. This was in 2021. I sort of want to go and get the highest wattage panels on the market and replace the panasonic ones I have just to increase the output of my system. Of course there are other things I'll have to upgrade as well but I could just about double my output with new panels that arent the best cost for my solar installer's budget.
I think it depends on how much the replacement cost is, and how much more you can get from more modern panels. If you can double your output, then it's probably worth doing, but if it's just upgrading to a 450W panel then I think you're sacrificing too much in terms of IRR.
Thanks for the comment. Thats one way of looking at it and we do have some clients from 10-15 years ago now coming back to upgrade panels. Of course as a result of the FiT and various energy price spikes, their systems have more than paid back by now.
Spirit Energy is a family business, owned by Ian and Erica Charles. Ian owned and ran Primrose.co.uk up until 2018, when he sold it. Erica started Spirit Energy in 2010, and Ian then took over in 2022 as Erica needed to look after her mother. The Directors have never taken any money out of Spirit, and they believe in sharing the profits amongst the employees.
Hi, thanks for the question. I’d always recommend a string inverter. The minimal amount of impact that the other types have on shade mitigation will in no way recuperate the additional kit & installation cost. They also have a much higher failure rate. I always advise my clients to get a string inverter, preferably DC coupled. -Tok
@@spiritenergy_uk DC coupling is more efficient if you use most of the power locally, but if most of it is going out on the AC isn't AC-coupling more efficient (because it doesn't go through a battery+48VDC inverter, only a higher-voltage DC inverter)? I would love to see some efficiency figures and discussion of various configurations and equipment. Do you have any pointers?
Thanks for the comment. Certainly interested to hear any comments that you have. We’re trying to make the most informative videos possible and any feedback is appreciated.
"Who ya gonna trust?" The track record of each company is important: 1) How many units have they been asked to replace, and of that, what percentage did they replace. 2) Does replacement include labor? 3) Are the numbers accurate (as in disinterested 3rd party certification)? A lesser consideration is the politics of economics; will the importation of repair parts (whole modules, etc.) be possible, regulated, taxed, etc. differently than when the system is installed? And let's not forget the old motto of Buy Local when possible. From what I've seen, the Chinese companies have improved the quality of there builds over the past few decades. There is a Spanish company building hybrid units that draw the heat of the unit for domestic use, co-generators on your roof... Best of luck to you and keep doing quality videos.
I saw someone do some bifacial tests here on youtube with high-angle ground-mount and various surfaces to compare albedos. He found 2-10% extra generation (IIRC), and whiter surfaces made a significant difference. So yeah, 30% is going to be with carefully-angled mirrors behind and not very relevant to real world. But ultimately missing the back-sheet off is cheaper and adds efficiency so is clearly a good idea.
How interesting. Exactly what I expected. - Tok
Makes sense. The other consideration is that it is likely that the technology will have significantly advanced in 10 years, so in all reality whatever you buy will be effectively obsolete way before any warranty. That begs the question haunting me, to wait or not to wait!
Ultimately, it's an investment. I think it comes down to what's the best use of your money at the moment (assuming that's your main motivation for solar). The IRR of a solar system is pretty similar now to what it was a few years ago (unless you happened to get on the early FiT scheme). You do get a few years where solar returns do incredibly well as a result of massive electricity price spikes.
Currently, the IRR for domestic solar PV & battery system tends to range from 9% to 16% depending on how much electricity you use and how big the system is, and how much it costs.
It's also very easy to swap the panels out 10 years later - just put some scaffolding up and replace them, as well as maybe the inverter if that needs replacing. Not too expensive to do.
Technology is always progressing. I feel the same way every year about the latest iPhone haha!
-Tok
Why didn't you mention Viridian? One of the few manufacturers of integrated panels.
They wouldn’t make the list of top panels. You can integrate a Longi 435W ABC all black with GSE and it’s far more cost effective. Viridian are great systems that we do recommend completely, but the panels themselves aren’t special.
-Tok
Like your last video on the Powerwall 3 this video is very interesting and helpful. Thank you, now subscribed.
Quick question. Aesthetically out of a dozen black panels of Aiko, REC and SunPower installed on a 45 degree pitch roof what make of panel would look the best or is there no visible difference?
@@johnchambers6272 Thank you for the kind comment and subscription. In terms of aesthetics, you won't be able to tell the difference unless you're directly below them and focussing on them. In the video, you'll see that the JA and Trina panels have silver bus bars, but these are pretty much invisible on the roof. The Aiko and SunPowers do look a more "deep black" but ultimately you won't notice the difference unless focussing on it.
Thanks for the video. It would have been nice if you had stated their prices/watt as well.
Also with images and suppliers..
Two and a half years ago I called them for a quote and when I asked about other panel options I was dismissed with a tone of attitude.
How things changed during that time; their boss got now the panels I had installed two years ago and Sunpower went bankrupt.
Hi, I do apologise if you had a bad experience with us - that’s certainly not acceptable.
A few years ago, SunPower were certainly the market leaders and were worth the premium price tag that they came with because they had 400W panels and a 25 year warranty while the rest of the industry were manufacturing 250-300W panels with 12 year warranties. In the past three years, the playing field has levelled and SunPower are no longer competitive, hence the bankruptcy. As this video demonstrates, there isn’t much of a benefit to the paying the premium price for their products.
I apologise again, and thank you for watching the channel.
-Tok
Got Longi 420w.. fricking excellent @ £60 each.
i am getting soon when my house is mine in few weeks iam getting 12 Aiko Neostar 2S 455W All Black ABC N-Type Mono Panels 6 for front house and 6 on back because of the way my house is facing with a 10.64kWh Sunsynk Battery Storage (90% Usable) with bird protection for £9635 is that good price
That sounds like a worryingly cheap price. I’d be slightly concerned over how cheap. Have you done a detailed background check and research into the installer?
-Tok
@@spiritenergy_uk yes and aslo seen other ppl oneline say good things about them and there local as well
@@spiritenergy_uk spectra solar I am going with just waiting for g99 come back and my mortage to start so my house is mine
Aiko Neostar 2S N-Type 455W 20 panels also on 2 sides of roof.
Tigo TS4-A-O Optimisers x10
Fox KH1 10.0kW Hybrid Inverter
Fox EP5 10.4kWh HV Battery (2x 5.18kWh batteries)
Bird Protection
Got the price through Solar Together Berkshire group buying scheme £11,800
@@Tom-mb2ch if my roof could hold more then around 12 Aiko Neostar 2S N-Type 455W i would of like more even thou atm we not need coz only use 3300kw a year but wanted future proof myself
What about Rea Fusion panels?
Interesting, we've not come across these much. I'll take a look and maybe incorporate them into our product lineup. Thanks!
Im in the states and when I got my panels installed the company told me that they dont like to install any panel over 380w on a roof for residential panels. This was in 2021. I sort of want to go and get the highest wattage panels on the market and replace the panasonic ones I have just to increase the output of my system. Of course there are other things I'll have to upgrade as well but I could just about double my output with new panels that arent the best cost for my solar installer's budget.
I think it depends on how much the replacement cost is, and how much more you can get from more modern panels. If you can double your output, then it's probably worth doing, but if it's just upgrading to a 450W panel then I think you're sacrificing too much in terms of IRR.
@@spiritenergy_uk Ahh yeah good point. I'll have to crunch some numbers then.
Solar technology keeps advancing everyday. I prefer to choose the cheapest panels, plan to upgrade to the latest technology 10 years later.
Thanks for the comment. Thats one way of looking at it and we do have some clients from 10-15 years ago now coming back to upgrade panels. Of course as a result of the FiT and various energy price spikes, their systems have more than paid back by now.
Clearly a boat load of margin in solar panel installations based on the directors house
Spirit Energy is a family business, owned by Ian and Erica Charles. Ian owned and ran Primrose.co.uk up until 2018, when he sold it. Erica started Spirit Energy in 2010, and Ian then took over in 2022 as Erica needed to look after her mother. The Directors have never taken any money out of Spirit, and they believe in sharing the profits amongst the employees.
Do you tend to install microinverters, optimisers or string inverters with your panels? Does it vary?
Hi, thanks for the question. I’d always recommend a string inverter. The minimal amount of impact that the other types have on shade mitigation will in no way recuperate the additional kit & installation cost. They also have a much higher failure rate. I always advise my clients to get a string inverter, preferably DC coupled. -Tok
@@spiritenergy_uk DC coupling is more efficient if you use most of the power locally, but if most of it is going out on the AC isn't AC-coupling more efficient (because it doesn't go through a battery+48VDC inverter, only a higher-voltage DC inverter)? I would love to see some efficiency figures and discussion of various configurations and equipment. Do you have any pointers?
Bs
Thanks for the comment. Certainly interested to hear any comments that you have. We’re trying to make the most informative videos possible and any feedback is appreciated.
@@spiritenergy_uk u sell stuff. Just tell it like it is