A good installer does not sell an inverter and equipment that NEEDS internet. Or that looses warranty without internet (Something that should by default keep anybody from using Enphase) . LOCAL monitoring capability should be a default! (Kudos to SMA and Fronius there) Also I don't want my installer to have access to MY system, but I guess for the run of the mill user it might be a good thing. So annoying to have expensive equipment at home that you don't control. I can't understand people who can't even tell if their system is working though...
A pair of binoculars are really useful for checking solar panels from the ground. Mine looked OK but through binoculars I could see a lot of algae and some small patches of lichen, which would only grow. I have panels on the rear SE facing roof and side SW facing. The side is too close to the neighbours so a long pole cannot be used. I bought a used scaffold tower and now have a very effective method of cleaning. I put up the tower one day. In the morning, first thing when there is dew on the panels the algae is soft and comes off easily. I use a bucket of warm water and a 4m water fed pole. First scrub with the warm water then mains water to finish cleaning and rinsing off. I use the squeegee on the back of the brush to remove the water. If it happened to be raining at the time, that would be a bonus.
Just FYI there are some chemicals that can be used to clean solar panels. And in some instances these need to be used to remove the build up of lichen etc. however if regularly cleaned, yes pure water is fine. I clean many in the East Yorkshire area. If diy cleaning make sure your chemical is label compliant for solar panels, if it doesn't say, don't use it 👍
That does, of course, assume that the marketing claims on the label are trustworthy. If I know what chemicals are Ok, and what chemicals to avoid, then looking at the products MSDS should be a much more reliable way of telling whether that product is safe.
Use a PH neutral soap and a soft bristle brush. Don't clean in sun. Hose off soap before it dries and use a squeegee to wipe off the bulk water or clean while it rains to prevent limescale. Most panels that is self cleaning have a metallized glass that in sun burns the surface contamination so it goes away in next rain. High or low PH soap or degreaser can destroy this metal layer and dirt will stick a lot more and it won't be self cleaning anymore
An easy way to collect rainwater for cleaning the solar panels is to install a water butt onto your gutter downpipe. Use a diverter with a built-in filter to prevent things like silt entering the water butt.
I'm a window cleaner (20yrs experience). It makes me laugh when manufacturers claim "self-cleaning" with either windows or solar panels - it's complete rubbish (regardless of angle)! Definitely don't leave them long enough that lichen builds up - it's a complete nightmare to remove and will cost significantly more to get them cleaned professionally.
It's more of a problem for continually damp countries where seeing the sun is a rare blessing. Solar panels in more hospitable climes actually do self clean. The coating on the glass makes bird and bat poo bake off while dust washes off with rain. Lichens (or worse moss) simply don't get a foot in the door.
In year 14 of my 4kw solar array (ground) and still going strong - I monitor them monthly as I’m a data nerd. The feed in tariff goes up with inflation so easily outstripping any minimal loss in generation. Never been attached to any external system via the internet.
Same here, I'm in year 17 of a 18kW array on the roof. Never cleaned it, works just fine. Monitoring the generation through the counters of the inverters. year on year variation depend more on the weather than anything else. No decline measurable so far.
We've had our system for over 3 years and the bird poo is not an issue, the rain removes it after a while. No lichen either. The cost of paying someone to "clean" is just not worth it for us.
One general tip on WiFi (note hard-wired connections are still usually the better option), is to create your own SSID (aka the WiFi name) and password, do not use the one that your router comes with! If you then change your router/modem some time later, such as switching to a new provider, just change the new devices WiFi SSID and password, to match your previous one. This way all existing devices, including smart ones using WiFi, will carry on working with the new WiFi. aka you only need to change the new modem/router, rather than every phone, tablet, smart device, laptop etc etc to connect to the new modem/router. Although if you suspect a security issue, like unauthorised use, change the password (in the router/modem), but this is the same for the default accounts as well.
I'm in Canada just North of the US border. My panels are 10 years old and still perform like the day they were installed back in 2015. (9000 watts of Enphase M250's)
Have just had Storm Darrah, and being half a mile from the north of Anglesey, my windows are covered in salt. As we are only just entering winter storm season, getting my PVs cleaned before spring seems a little futile. Wind gusts of 75mph here, are unusual, but salt deposits are pretty frequent. I hope the winter rain washes it off before the next deposit. Thanks for the video.
Many thanks Artisan, I agree with the monitoring but I'm too scared to look at my solar because I've a heat pump and seeing that burning through money was frightening.
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There are another solution to your wifi issue 1. Use a mesh system in your home and have an ssid that all your smart devices are connected to, the mesh hub will be hard wired to router. So it is just changing that one hardwired connection for all your wifi devices. 2. When you get a new router, log onto the router home page and change the default SSID to whatever your SSID was for your old router and change the wifi password to the same as your old router.
As a solar salesperson in the midlands the majority of this information should be included in the original quote stage. Any company shying away from telling you about maintenance should be a major red flag. I work in person so whenever I pass a window cleaner I’ll ash if they offer panel cleaning. General quotes come in £4-5/panel. One thing worth noting is that, I always let my customers know to get a clean dinner after any large dust storm or fires. Think Saharan dust storm or Icelandic volcano. Only issue with this video, where are you getting 30p/kwh from? If this is a suggested future charge (5 years time) that’s ok, but this needs to be clear. 95% of houses I visit are below market cap in the 22-24p range. I’d also ask what rates you use for inflation and energy price rise are? We use 3.2% inflation . 7.2% energy price rise. Otherwise love the chanel. I regularly tell my customers to view these videos to help them with the decision process !!
Well, if you've overpaid for a super-duper 'professional' install, it must be high quality. I appreciate well-done work as much as the next person, and I appreciate what this company stands for and does. Every time I hear them talk though, all I see is money going out the door. Solar panels don't tend to break. Pick a wattage for your needs and voltages your inverter can work with. There are lots of inverters on the market and even inexpensive ones relative to a package install / pro install can work fine for someone. Same for batteries; integrated packages and systems are significantly more expensive per kWh of storage. And installers will always go with integrated systems because they're easier to install and get support for. Every area/country has its own regulations and yes, you need to make sure you follow those. Always know your limitations and call a professional if there's any doubt when it comes to electricity. And again by country/region, there are some things that need to be done and certified by a licensed sparky. In the US though, if you don't live in a highly regulated state (like California) and you're not selling back to the grid, what you do behind the meter is pretty much up to the property owner.
I am in the works of putting a ethernet cable to my Envoy. Haven't had an issue, but with about 4k feet of cat6 cable run in my house, I prefer to have it hardwired. I like to say 'keep your panels clean' but I hear from others it's fine if they're dirty. I am in sunny socal, and I see a difference after I wash my panels. but... we have hard water and we can get build-up. so I try to limit how often I wash.
best way of cleaning solar panels ,is get a window cleaning kit that will reach the panels ,and clean them when its raining ,as the rain will act as a swilling of them as well
I have front & back roofs facing SSW & NNE which have worked just fine for the last 12 years. Recently though, the north facing panels (only), have developed a film of green algae (no licken), which I want to ckean off. Panels are on a 2 storey house, so not easily accessible. A ground based approach with very long pole probably wont allow enough purchase to scrub them clean & scaffolding would be crazy expensive, so I need a recommendation for either a cleaning company or suitable chemical which could be applied via a hose brush to enhance the effectiveness of cleaning regimen. Any thought or ideas welcome.
My solar system was installed in 2008, there was a failed inverter in about 2016 under warrantee (we got a lot of overvoltage on the national grid tie - I have measured 263V before they lowered the local transformer to its lowest tap). They have worked continuously (except for the inverter problem), and after 16 years they are about 5-10% down - and most of that is bird poo. Unfortunately our house is high and the window cleaner cannot reach them. It is a simple system - it is a single inverter, with no internet connection - but we constantly monitor the output with an overall output system. We pipe the excess into our hot water - and for 7 months a year we don't have any other hot water heating.
You often see the tree effect in a garden with a greenhouse. "What fool built that greenhouse under that big tree?" Nobody - but somebody couldn't be bothered to get rid of that little ash or sycamore sapling near the greenhouse until it was too late.
Great video and great advice Jordan. After having an extension a few years ago and more recently solar & batteries installed, i will likely be taking you up on your services in the new year. I hope you cover the midlands too 🤞🏽
Genuine question, what about ceramic coatings like we detailers do to cars? The hydrophobic layer lowers the surface tension which leads to rainwater running off quicker and will help pull dust with it and lessen the chance of waterspotting. Might be worth a try to see if such a coating affects efficiency?
A good video, Jordan. An important thing to check, wherever you are in the world, is the legality of trimming or removing trees. Councils and other authorities may have tree protection orders in place. On my side of the world in Sydney, many Councils allow 10% trimming. Removals may involve getting a professional consulting arborist to provide a report. Non toxic sprays are available that break down moss and lichen as the rain falls on them. Cheers
I approached our council regarding the trees in the street - birch, which are getting higher and higher. They say that they maintain them by cutting side growth, but will 'never' cut the tops out of them as it causes secondary growth, so they regrow from that point. This means that some on our street will never be able to maintain unshaded panels as the trees are quite close. That'll be a major snag for renewables for many suburban streets.
13.21 wifi issues with new router... How about just naming new router wifi same as last one and leaving password the same as well...? Moust routers have option to broadcast more than one wifi name (ssid) so perhaps setting additional one just for solar system might be a cleaver idea and potentially could save money in rare scenariosl where individual may change router/provider
I completely agree with the monitoring system. What the cleaning is concerned, it is so much depending on details of the components and the settings, that you cannot give a general advice. In my case I found out after monitoring for 12 years, it is not nedessary at all. But this might be the case because it is a DIY. Only the AC installation and the meter exchange was done by the grid company as well as the security certificate. Why DIY? After analysing 22 offers, I found out, that non of these will meet my criterias. Back that time, there was a big knowhow and quality issue all over the continent,. Not so in China, so I took my knowledge from chinese online-advisors that I translated by google. And then I bougt every single component online. Nowadays the systems changed, but some issues are still there and new issues have arisen. And still, the knowledge in China is still decades ahead. So it is even more worth to DIY nowadays.
I have a 4.8 kW system in two strings of 2.4 each, one on the shed/woodstore roof, and one on the loft extension roof. The shed string collects all kinds of crap from an over hanging Yew tree, of which the rain washes most it off. I have got up there and cleaned them with a brush and a bit of soapy water, made no noticeable difference to be honest. What has made a difference is the 7368kWHr I have generated since Feb 2023.
It would be a major miracle if anything out in the elements was actually self-cleaning! It would be a first in fact. I see installations where no thought has been given to access for cleaning and even brushing snow off them if it settles. If I had a roof mounted array, I would want a good catwalk along them so I could safely reach them with the correct cleaning equipment so I was not tied into someone else [or some company] charging me for such a basic requirement. Keeping trees from shading is obvious, but trees encourage the growth of lichen and this needs dealing with before it gets going. Ever looked at a car's guttering if the vehicle is frequently parked under or near trees? As for dust accumulation, this probably means the panels need properly cleaning more often than annually. So my point about having a cat walk and doing it yourself is perfectly shown. Best wishes from George
How much will your house insurance rise when fitting solar panels in case they get smashed to bit by a unusually large hail storm that destroyed the solar park in Wales worth thinking about 😊😊
The calculation about cleaning doesn't really stack up as you assume all power lost is power you have to pay for when in reality a lot of it may be power you don't feed back which attracts a much lower payment. I can say that, living 100% off grid cleaning does make a big difference especially with low angle panels. In many ways firmware updates really shouldn't be required as the system should have been optimally programmed in the first place at manufacture. All too often what the firmware updates do is to ensure you then have to do another firmware update to address the problems introduced by the previous one. I have a policy of reading exactly what the update will do before doing an update as a lot of the time the changes aren't relevant to your installation. My biggest indicator of correct performance of the system is monitoring. I also have a feeling that thermal imaging might prove to be a very useful tool in spotting problems in panels and connections but that is more from a maintaining engineer's perspective than an owners and will be more useful in older systems when considering upgrading.
Thanks for another professional vlog regarding solar. Since I installed my solar roof, my neighbors has built a new house shading from direct sun in three months with various shadowing. How to handle that? 👍🇩🇰🇩🇰🇩🇰😎
There is definitely..very much. A need for an inspection of solar and battery systems to check if everything is ok. Unfortunately there is a few cowboys who do carry out inspections on homes where the people , usually retired, don't understand their solar. I know they are replacing parts like inverters..
So you ignore the damage of washing on the system especially hitting it with a big pole from the ground, I suspect that has a negative impact beyond grub
Have you compared electricity production between when they were installed and now? Even clean they wont be as efficient as new, I would be interested if you could share. Older panels produce less power than modern ones too but its not worth the cost of upgrading them.
@ That’s the claim but what’s the reality? I was just interested in real numbers. We have an example in this video of someone replacing panels that are not that old relatively speaking. I have DIY panels on my shed roof, small scale stuff but they work. The issue I have with a solar installation is the ridiculous labour costs £10k to install at most £2k worth of equipment just doesn’t seem good value to me.
@@deang5622big assumption you've made is that the 20yr claim is verified. Do you really think they leave panels outside for 20yrs so the marketing is accurate! Can guarantee they have all sorts of language around lab settings and testing conditions to justify that claim of 20yrs
i would argue cleaning them once a year should be enough and i would it time right after the pollen season and thenn watch how dirty they get, the pv system at my parents house was installed back in 2006 and as far as i know only cleaned once but the roof has a 45° angle and the sharp panels they got back then show little degradation installed are 30 180w panels and in the summer sun they still reach 5,4kwp when the sun is at the right angle, really stunning only thing we had to change was the inverter 3 times the first two times we got an solarmaxx single phase (the company don´t exist anymore) and the third i changed myself (since i became an electrician myself in the meantime) to an Tripower from SMA its a threephase, easier since we´re from germany and it isn´t allowed anymore to install an inverter bigger than 4kw to a single phase but since then we had no more Problems with the system and it runs like a treat.
Hi my friend i have a question i live at in wednesbury A bit out of your area. But i have watched your channel quite a bit ,very good. I had a Tesla powerwall2 fitted by stratford energy but they removed my v04 voltage optimizer even though i wanted to keep it,They used my Henley block connection to make it easier for them but they did promise that they would leave those open for me But my question is Is there any reason by my V04 could still not be used with the Tesla powerwall 2 as i had paid £400 to have it fitted and now it is just lay on the floor in the Garage. I do feel upset about this Please can you put me out of my misery one way or another
Great video which prompts a quick question - I have a 2.8kwp system fitted in November 2011. It's a dumb system. Using the PVGIS website, it tells me that the system should be generating around 2677kwh per year, 13 years is 34,801kwh. My generation meter in Nov 2024 read 32,822kwh or 94.3% of theoretical. Does this sound about right given panel degradation and all other factors?
EICRs are an interesting point wrt solar installations. There seems to be so much in the way of guidance by various authorities, BS7671 / IET CoP / RS62 and so on..... If you carried out an EICR on a solar PV installation, would you check for / pass-fail an installation which didn't have AC and DC isolation at the inverter/battery? This seems to be the most contentious area that I've found with divided opinion. How would you handle this?
Maybe I have been lucky .. se facing 14 x 250 panels , installed 10 years ago. We recently had retro fitted Zappi,Libbi, Eddi, and in summer we saw 3.6kW being generated. We are in the countryside, and no shading, so I presume our air is cleaner than average, and annual snow cover on the panels which always slides off in the thaw, may have helped the panels stay clean, but to have no drop in output over 10 years without any intervention counts as “self-cleaning” in my book. As the panels were on FIT they paid for themselves about 4 years ago, so if there was a serious condition now, I would probably still be quids in if I replaced with 14 x 450w panels.
Theoretically it's the same principle as traditional window cleaning so yes BUT there is technique involved to stop water running down after and leaving marks
Don’t worry about water spots on the panels…. Natural rainwater in the UK has a PH of about 5.0 to 6.0 which is slightly acidic, the minerals in tap water (that cause water spots) are alkaline and over time will be dissolved by the rain.
@alanwood9804 I have window cleaning customers who have allowed mains water to dry on windows (watering plants, water tank overflow etc) and the marks remain on the windows years after regardless of normal cleaning and rain water (I will say we are in a particularly hard water area)
Deffo worth getting them cleaned! I am a window cleaner and we do loads of one offs and even some regular scheduled solar panel cleans with a pure water system. Remember the dirt only gets worse a lot/most of the time, so what may be a 10-15% reduction in say a year, year 2 may be 15-20%+ reduction (depending on type of dirt) and progressively over time they are generating way less with each passing day. And yeah as long as access is good £5 a panel is about right :-)
I have a "big stick", from a brand called "Docapole". It comes in 5/7/9meter extensions. It comes with squeegee and microfibre attachments. It's well worth it. Definitely worth cleaning annually . You get a build up of muck, bird poo, and lichens - especially on the bottom lip of the panel. I've found it can sort out panels that are performing maybe 5% below other panels, and restore the performance. Top tip though: I found my Class II panels were showing 90 Volts AC between the panel frame and my ladder. That wasn't so much a shock as a tingle! The water in the gutters, and the neighbouring wet roof tiles were also giving me a tingle. So it turns out that there's two things: 1. Class 2 panel insulation does degrade over time, and water seepage along the bottom edge of the panel is a thing. 2. AC capacitive pickup on the DC wiring from the AC source is a thing. So the advice I've received is always isolate your panels on the AC isolator prior to cleaning. Other things: 1. The tightness of the solar panel clamps can loosen up with repeated thermal expansion/contraction. Not sure how to fix these, without some kind of "Torque Drone Screwdriver". Walking on the panels is of course bad for your safety and bad for the panels obviously. 2. Get a thermal camera. If you see any "hot spots" on your panel, then that indicates that the bypass diodes are passing current. If your panel is shaded then that can be expected, but if it's in full sun then it could indicate there's fault of one of the cell loops (or an optimiser fault if you have those).
@Artisanelectrics do you have experience with three phase Enphase residential installation? Just had 44 panels installed and I am trying to find out if a three phase 2.5mm HO7 AC conductor cable for a 22 micros IQ8-HC branch around 30 meters distance from the DB can handle peak demand in summer or if a thicker 4mm or 6mm would have been better suited from the junction box to distribution board?
@ thank you for getting back to me. Also just heard back from Enphase. Their advisory recommendation is to go for 4-6mm to limit voltage rise to less than 1% on peak production days.
On the underside yes, they get terribly moldy. On the glass though, not seen it myself. Pressure washing it off is a bad idea. You'll force water around the sealant on the edges of the cell sheet. If there is a problem with the encapsulation you'll increase (electrical) leakage. Best to use a broom and non-ammonia based detergent.
Keeping you firmware up to date can hurt your performance if the manufacturer wants to "brick" your installation and sell you the new hotness. Enel-X recently did this to "Juice Box" EV chargers when they pulled out of North America.
I have also seen that the provider changes router so that the earlier configuration was 192.168.1.x while the new was 192.168.0.x and that trashed the entire solution totally. For devices that shall be always online I prefer static addresses and not dynamic, so this means that I know which address each device has and can see if it's working. Many devices are supported by Home Assistant and can be working entirely locally so you can have some features working even if you lose internet.
Updating an app every now and then? Getting in a window cleaner once a year? Electrical safety report every 5 years (which your house needs regardless)? "Too much work"? Puzzling!? Have you picked up so little from this video and this channels super high-quality content? 🧐🤔
@@rogerflatt8054 He talks about hiring a window cleaner twice a year. He guesses that it'll be cheap. I doubt it. He talks about a FIRMWARE update, not an app update. He talks about choosing the right installer or you may end up with an installation that doesn't produce. How should I know? I'm not an industry insider! So perhaps I should choose the higher bidder? $$$$ He talks about keeping an eye on things because sometimes people don't realize it's not working for months/years. He doesn't talk about hail storms, but that's a common occurrence where I live. That can't be cheap. Buying power from my utility is a better deal for me.
Another solution for the issue with WiFi is use a name for ssid and same password, then when you change provider or hub you change that back with same password and presto all devices are connected without going round the house connecting things
If you are going to change you Wi-Fi router note down the SSID and Password then on the new router put the same SSID and password in, then everything will just work.
9 year old system here. I clean the panels once a year and make sure the DC isolators on the roof are not seeing water ingress (silly Australian regulation now rescinded). 100WM produced so far and nil issues to date. System paid its way at the 5 year mark and has saved about $7000 AUD so far. I do know people who went with cheaper systems and early Chinese inverters. Lots of inverter failures and ground faults from water ingress.
Yes, best thing that ever happened getting rid of that DC rooftop isolator requirement. My second array didn't have one and I removed the first arrays isolator shortly after.
I have had my 4kw system on my roof for 10 years ..never cleaned them and there is no noticeable drop in their performance yet. ( I average around 4000 kwhours a year)
I am trying to advise my sister at present. She has solar panels, an electric car (with a modest range) and is about to install batteries. I have tipped her off about getting more than a 3 KW inverter but something else has happened that made me think again. Her car needs to be charged before finishing a journey from her address to the rest of the family so a bigger range is much need. I have become aware of some Fisker Ocean cars with car to load ability being available very cheap. So my question is this can you get a setup of an inverter to and from a charger and use the car as your storage. This fiskers are cheap as the company has gone bump but you can buy what was a £60K car with delivery miles and a 113 KWH battery for £20k. Can she get a system that would allow her to use the car for battery storage and not bother with £5k for less than 10KW of home battery and get a 400+ mile range car into the bargain.
Performance gains versus cost of cleaning is simply not worth it IME - this is from having panels up for 11 years now - any dust, lichen or small guano is negligible - I proved this to myself by cleaning 4/8 panels during the grey days of early November and it made no difference whatsoever - my overall yearly output is still on par which the designed capacity of 4kwp. My main takeaway was that having optimisers with SolarEdge has provided more gains with shading etc but I can monitor each panel and can see that after 11 years, one of my panels has a failed bypass diode so it is down to 2/3rds power output which needs fixing. In that time one optimiser has failed (only on the data monitoring as the power output was still fine) and this was replaced by SE. The only person that benefits from cleaning PV is the person being paid to do it!
The majority of WIFI issues are caused when you connect to a dual 2.4GHz/5GHz network. On your router you can also create a single 2.4GHz WIFI network and use this for all local monitoring devices and all or most of your network connection issues will disappear.
I have a 10 year old PV system and I can promise that when they are cleaned the generation increases. I have mine cleaned every March. Considering changing them for new generation ones too.
Hmm enough to put me off solar panells because of the add-on costs such as cleaning and here in Australia such cleaning services - if you can find one especially in a rural area where I live it is going to eat into the savings of having solar panels, and again simply because there is far more dust in the air for example out here..
If your covering solar then you should be talking about geo engineering and the thick white haze that covers the skys when they want it too , so really the solar is only going to give on the basis of that and more people really should be investigating this and speaking up
Treat your PV panels with turtle wax rain repellent… it puts a film on the surface that effectively fills the micro undulations that are present on the surfaces and helps prevent dusts etc clinging to the micro imperfections on the panels surfaces, and when it rains (as rain carried micro sized bits of dirt from the atmosphere too), it also is repelled from the surfaces, so dirt is prevented from building up too… it also helps prevent bird poo and other items sticking to, or helps prevent (I.e. lichen) rooting on the surface…and easier to clean off with, for example soapy water and hose pipe and/or long reach brush etc… only costs £6 a bottle which is more than enough for several (annual) treatments - much cheaper than paying someone to come clean them…👍🏻
I’m in western USA, so don’t have a lichen issue nor have a poo issue as the hawks take care of the pigeons. 😅 Our panels get cleaned once a year at the end of summer when the handyman goes up to roof (2 1/2 stories) to clean the gutters. He uses a diluted Windex solution and sponge cleaners on poles. Really only cleaning off dust and pollen. We have been lucky to have only lost 5% performance on our 25 year old panels. Every year I’m expecting failures and having to replace the whole system.
I know how window cleaners do it,! That's not my question. It was can I use softened water? As I have a water softener and I use it to clean the car etc. I have a pressure washer which powers a soft rotary brush. I used that with extension poles last year to clean my panels with soft water and they seem okay with no degradation. It shifted a lot of bird dirt and lichen. I did get a window cleaner to try, but they didn't fancy it. I borrowed their equipment, stood on top of my van to reach the panels at the right angle, it didn't work.@@artisanelectrics
Another thing to remember is heat... My panels make 2500W peak in the middle of winter.... Summer, with 40+C 1500W , heat degrades the output performance of your panels depending on how high your temps get... This is proven on my system..... Also.... Having to HAVE an internet connection is nothing but red Lights for me, kudos to Victron and a hand full of others that do not REQUIRE and internet connection to have to operate.....
Without having a reference panel to compare the output to it difficult to quantify the cleaning benefit, have had panels since 2011 first few years they stay clean by them selves. Had a problem lichen a few years back not easy to clean off but didn’t actually appear to make that much difference. If you have a system that monitors the output of each panel it would be ideal to clean half the panels and compare the output of the cleaned and uncleaned that will tell you for sure. Not convinced cleaning with demin water alone will prevent buildup of lichen, think you would need some bleach or similar in the mix
Unfortunately a lot of U.S. installers are paid per panel, so they more they can install per day the more they make, so they are not installed properly, Our neighbor had to call an electrician out to rewire the system, the installers almost burned his house down thy how the connected them into the main panel.
My question is why do installers just not provide how to set up the Wifi or system passwords for the inverter etc for basic mantaince like reboots and reconnecting wifi etc, what about when people move and things arnt passed on there no access to inverters at all companies go bust just doesn't make sense to me surly the homeowers should be given all the access the installer to the inverters, or am i missing something obvious apart form they dont want people messing with them
If you clean them in the rain you MIGHT get away with it but if it's dry you'll get marks. Once you get marks they are not coming off - trust me - I've seen it with my window cleaning customers
Yep…. Natural rainwater in the UK has a PH of about 5.0 to 6.0 which is slightly acidic, the minerals in tap water (that cause water spots) are alkaline and over time will be dissolved by the rain.
Encouraging consumers to have inspection and testing at any level is great. Both EICRs and solar. Good work getting that message out there. We need to pushback against the aggressive miss selling around solar maintenance. Scaring consumers into inverter and panel upgrades. Double glazing sales people destroying the reputation of a sector. Hopefully electricians can help bring some sense to what is a largely broken system
Just remember investing 20k into solar could just be better just investing the money in the stock market, the Q's return you an average yearly rate of 14.5% over 30years. Compound that over 20 years is a 337k gain on your 20k.
"The best way to get a good installation is to use a good installer". Yep. Now how does Joe Public find one that actually does one and not just promise one? Solve that!
Solar seems like a masisve waste of money. The amount of materials and cost required to make sure a tiny amount of electricity to save a couple of hundred quid just isn't worth it at all.
Which parts of the battery solar system need updates? Also the app should talk to the parts ... I assume that the synergy system allows these things to be changed ... Always useful to have a 30m lan cable to get the device back on the network to refix the wifi
How are probably most customers going to know the’ve just picked a good , bad or incompetent installation company , if they turn up on a horse would be a good indication maybe .
I’ve been watching your TH-cam channel for a few years now. Randomly I was going to Norfolk from Southampton on Friday randomly I thought I sore one of your vans south bound on the A / M11 at about 3.30am. Put me out of my misery have you got a grey van with your logo ???😂
Poor trees need sunlight to make the air we breathe. Maybe make sure you fit the solar where it will be able to collect light rather than cutting or trimming the trees . I guess people desperate for electricity will do anything for some sunlight!
Jason.... Still waiting for an example installation cost. Perhaps an installation which is not the subject of a video. I'm truly grateful for your videos which reinforce the fact that solar is a waste of money 😮😮 unless you can prove otherwise of course? Bet you won't though. This video emphasised this. In our case you'd have to pay for scaffolding (£800) every 6 months to get to the roof to clean the panels. We have shading so apparently we'll need a tree surgeon every few years to trim the very large trees near us. Please tell me that this is some comedy being performed on people who should know better than waste their money on this nonsense.
The biggest problem with cleaning solar panels is they are all the way up there. Scaffolding is needed to install them so for maximum safety scaffolding should be installed to clean them. I wonder how many injuries there are a year because of people cleaning panels in a dangerous way.
@@st200ol Incorrect logic. When they are being installed the entire panel is being lifted. And then the installer is standing on the roof to complete the installation. This is not the case for cleaning. You can use a cherry picker. Why go to the cost and time errecting scaffolding when a cherry picker will enable you to do the cleaning job in a much cheaper and quicker way?
@ I don’t have a cherry picker though, how much are they to hire? The more stubborn stuff would require getting onto the roof and scraping too. Just saying for a DIYer it’s not so easy. I have DIY panels on my shed roof and there is a small risk involved with cleaning them as there is anytime a ladder is used but I suppose I’ll just have to take the risk every year or so.
How about a "rain off"(car windscreen protection) type product from a quality recognised manufacturer to apply during installation and each year thereafter to keep the panels clean, I believe the "Eden project" uses this. Obviously, accessibility and Health and safety taken into consideration.
You don't need software updates. If the software was written properly in the first place. You could argue that you want new features. But exactly what new features do you want in a PV installation?
Before you get solar ,i had a power bil of 45$ and 12 solar panels origen adet a 40$ charge to the bill for exporting my solar to the grid ,all my solar panels is used to up and to maintane power lines ,i am no beter of ,😂😂😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
So ... *yawn* Masks work, bro. Time for your booster. Happiness is a climate that will never, ever change. Today's climate = the epoch maximum. Ever!! *** PUKES ***
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A good installer does not sell an inverter and equipment that NEEDS internet. Or that looses warranty without internet (Something that should by default keep anybody from using Enphase) . LOCAL monitoring capability should be a default! (Kudos to SMA and Fronius there) Also I don't want my installer to have access to MY system, but I guess for the run of the mill user it might be a good thing. So annoying to have expensive equipment at home that you don't control. I can't understand people who can't even tell if their system is working though...
A pair of binoculars are really useful for checking solar panels from the ground. Mine looked OK but through binoculars I could see a lot of algae and some small patches of lichen, which would only grow.
I have panels on the rear SE facing roof and side SW facing. The side is too close to the neighbours so a long pole cannot be used. I bought a used scaffold tower and now have a very effective method of cleaning. I put up the tower one day. In the morning, first thing when there is dew on the panels the algae is soft and comes off easily. I use a bucket of warm water and a 4m water fed pole. First scrub with the warm water then mains water to finish cleaning and rinsing off. I use the squeegee on the back of the brush to remove the water. If it happened to be raining at the time, that would be a bonus.
Just FYI there are some chemicals that can be used to clean solar panels. And in some instances these need to be used to remove the build up of lichen etc. however if regularly cleaned, yes pure water is fine. I clean many in the East Yorkshire area. If diy cleaning make sure your chemical is label compliant for solar panels, if it doesn't say, don't use it 👍
That does, of course, assume that the marketing claims on the label are trustworthy. If I know what chemicals are Ok, and what chemicals to avoid, then looking at the products MSDS should be a much more reliable way of telling whether that product is safe.
Use a PH neutral soap and a soft bristle brush.
Don't clean in sun.
Hose off soap before it dries and use a squeegee to wipe off the bulk water or clean while it rains to prevent limescale.
Most panels that is self cleaning have a metallized glass that in sun burns the surface contamination so it goes away in next rain.
High or low PH soap or degreaser can destroy this metal layer and dirt will stick a lot more and it won't be self cleaning anymore
No, do what it says in the installation manual of your specific panel
An easy way to collect rainwater for cleaning the solar panels is to install a water butt onto your gutter downpipe. Use a diverter with a built-in filter to prevent things like silt entering the water butt.
This video is worthy of a lichen share
🤣
I'm a window cleaner (20yrs experience). It makes me laugh when manufacturers claim "self-cleaning" with either windows or solar panels - it's complete rubbish (regardless of angle)!
Definitely don't leave them long enough that lichen builds up - it's a complete nightmare to remove and will cost significantly more to get them cleaned professionally.
It's more of a problem for continually damp countries where seeing the sun is a rare blessing. Solar panels in more hospitable climes actually do self clean. The coating on the glass makes bird and bat poo bake off while dust washes off with rain. Lichens (or worse moss) simply don't get a foot in the door.
As a house, car and boat owner I fully agree with you. Would you leave your car unwashed for 10 years> If you did, what would you expect.?
In year 14 of my 4kw solar array (ground) and still going strong - I monitor them monthly as I’m a data nerd. The feed in tariff goes up with inflation so easily outstripping any minimal loss in generation. Never been attached to any external system via the internet.
Same here, I'm in year 17 of a 18kW array on the roof. Never cleaned it, works just fine. Monitoring the generation through the counters of the inverters. year on year variation depend more on the weather than anything else. No decline measurable so far.
We've had our system for over 3 years and the bird poo is not an issue, the rain removes it after a while. No lichen either. The cost of paying someone to "clean" is just not worth it for us.
One general tip on WiFi (note hard-wired connections are still usually the better option), is to create your own SSID (aka the WiFi name) and password, do not use the one that your router comes with! If you then change your router/modem some time later, such as switching to a new provider, just change the new devices WiFi SSID and password, to match your previous one. This way all existing devices, including smart ones using WiFi, will carry on working with the new WiFi. aka you only need to change the new modem/router, rather than every phone, tablet, smart device, laptop etc etc to connect to the new modem/router. Although if you suspect a security issue, like unauthorised use, change the password (in the router/modem), but this is the same for the default accounts as well.
I'm in Canada just North of the US border. My panels are 10 years old and still perform like the day they were installed back in 2015. (9000 watts of Enphase M250's)
Bull
Have just had Storm Darrah, and being half a mile from the north of Anglesey, my windows are covered in salt. As we are only just entering winter storm season, getting my PVs cleaned before spring seems a little futile. Wind gusts of 75mph here, are unusual, but salt deposits are pretty frequent. I hope the winter rain washes it off before the next deposit.
Thanks for the video.
Glad you survived the storm!
Many thanks Artisan, I agree with the monitoring but I'm too scared to look at my solar because I've a heat pump and seeing that burning through money was frightening.
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There are another solution to your wifi issue
1. Use a mesh system in your home and have an ssid that all your smart devices are connected to, the mesh hub will be hard wired to router. So it is just changing that one hardwired connection for all your wifi devices.
2. When you get a new router, log onto the router home page and change the default SSID to whatever your SSID was for your old router and change the wifi password to the same as your old router.
How will an EICR check solar connections etc, as these are often located on the roof, under the panels?
As a solar salesperson in the midlands the majority of this information should be included in the original quote stage. Any company shying away from telling you about maintenance should be a major red flag. I work in person so whenever I pass a window cleaner I’ll ash if they offer panel cleaning. General quotes come in £4-5/panel.
One thing worth noting is that, I always let my customers know to get a clean dinner after any large dust storm or fires. Think Saharan dust storm or Icelandic volcano.
Only issue with this video, where are you getting 30p/kwh from? If this is a suggested future charge (5 years time) that’s ok, but this needs to be clear. 95% of houses I visit are below market cap in the 22-24p range.
I’d also ask what rates you use for inflation and energy price rise are? We use 3.2% inflation . 7.2% energy price rise.
Otherwise love the chanel. I regularly tell my customers to view these videos to help them with the decision process !!
7.2% means energy prices will double in 10 years 😳
If you get a yearly check, you can shave a bit off the cost by combining it with gutter clearance and roof inspection (for loose or damaged tiles).
Definitely!
You say to make sure your panels are installed to the highest possible standard !. How are we to define what is high and what is low spec ?
Well, if you've overpaid for a super-duper 'professional' install, it must be high quality. I appreciate well-done work as much as the next person, and I appreciate what this company stands for and does. Every time I hear them talk though, all I see is money going out the door. Solar panels don't tend to break. Pick a wattage for your needs and voltages your inverter can work with. There are lots of inverters on the market and even inexpensive ones relative to a package install / pro install can work fine for someone. Same for batteries; integrated packages and systems are significantly more expensive per kWh of storage. And installers will always go with integrated systems because they're easier to install and get support for.
Every area/country has its own regulations and yes, you need to make sure you follow those. Always know your limitations and call a professional if there's any doubt when it comes to electricity. And again by country/region, there are some things that need to be done and certified by a licensed sparky.
In the US though, if you don't live in a highly regulated state (like California) and you're not selling back to the grid, what you do behind the meter is pretty much up to the property owner.
I am in the works of putting a ethernet cable to my Envoy. Haven't had an issue, but with about 4k feet of cat6 cable run in my house, I prefer to have it hardwired.
I like to say 'keep your panels clean' but I hear from others it's fine if they're dirty. I am in sunny socal, and I see a difference after I wash my panels. but... we have hard water and we can get build-up. so I try to limit how often I wash.
Definitely need to clean the panels. One of the reasons I didn’t put them on my roof
Where did you put them?
@ in the backyard. I can now enjoy sitting in shade. A solar pergola and can change the angle every month.
best way of cleaning solar panels ,is get a window cleaning kit that will reach the panels ,and clean them when its raining ,as the rain will act as a swilling of them as well
I have front & back roofs facing SSW & NNE which have worked just fine for the last 12 years. Recently though, the north facing panels (only), have developed a film of green algae (no licken), which I want to ckean off. Panels are on a 2 storey house, so not easily accessible. A ground based approach with very long pole probably wont allow enough purchase to scrub them clean & scaffolding would be crazy expensive, so I need a recommendation for either a cleaning company or suitable chemical which could be applied via a hose brush to enhance the effectiveness of cleaning regimen. Any thought or ideas welcome.
My solar system was installed in 2008, there was a failed inverter in about 2016 under warrantee (we got a lot of overvoltage on the national grid tie - I have measured 263V before they lowered the local transformer to its lowest tap). They have worked continuously (except for the inverter problem), and after 16 years they are about 5-10% down - and most of that is bird poo. Unfortunately our house is high and the window cleaner cannot reach them.
It is a simple system - it is a single inverter, with no internet connection - but we constantly monitor the output with an overall output system. We pipe the excess into our hot water - and for 7 months a year we don't have any other hot water heating.
Thanks for sharing your story!
You often see the tree effect in a garden with a greenhouse. "What fool built that greenhouse under that big tree?" Nobody - but somebody couldn't be bothered to get rid of that little ash or sycamore sapling near the greenhouse until it was too late.
More likely that dreadful super-fast growing hybrid weed 'tree', the leylandi thing, which for good measure is dead inside its green exterior foliage!
Great video and great advice Jordan.
After having an extension a few years ago and more recently solar & batteries installed, i will likely be taking you up on your services in the new year. I hope you cover the midlands too 🤞🏽
Genuine question, what about ceramic coatings like we detailers do to cars? The hydrophobic layer lowers the surface tension which leads to rainwater running off quicker and will help pull dust with it and lessen the chance of waterspotting. Might be worth a try to see if such a coating affects efficiency?
Mine are on a flat roof, so i wait for a small drizzle in spring and go clean them but i have easy access to the roof
A good video, Jordan. An important thing to check, wherever you are in the world, is the legality of trimming or removing trees. Councils and other authorities may have tree protection orders in place. On my side of the world in Sydney, many Councils allow 10% trimming. Removals may involve getting a professional consulting arborist to provide a report. Non toxic sprays are available that break down moss and lichen as the rain falls on them. Cheers
Great point!
In germany your only allowed to cut trees before the end of March to protect birds nesting in them.
@Felix-st2ue same here, as part of tree assessment
I approached our council regarding the trees in the street - birch, which are getting higher and higher. They say that they maintain them by cutting side growth, but will 'never' cut the tops out of them as it causes secondary growth, so they regrow from that point.
This means that some on our street will never be able to maintain unshaded panels as the trees are quite close. That'll be a major snag for renewables for many suburban streets.
in New Zealand if its a protected tree ( native ) you cant touch it at all and guess what my wanker of a neighbour planted.......
13.21 wifi issues with new router...
How about just naming new router wifi same as last one and leaving password the same as well...?
Moust routers have option to broadcast more than one wifi name (ssid) so perhaps setting additional one just for solar system might be a cleaver idea and potentially could save money in rare scenariosl where individual may change router/provider
I completely agree with the monitoring system. What the cleaning is concerned, it is so much depending on details of the components and the settings, that you cannot give a general advice. In my case I found out after monitoring for 12 years, it is not nedessary at all. But this might be the case because it is a DIY. Only the AC installation and the meter exchange was done by the grid company as well as the security certificate.
Why DIY? After analysing 22 offers, I found out, that non of these will meet my criterias. Back that time, there was a big knowhow and quality issue all over the continent,. Not so in China, so I took my knowledge from chinese online-advisors that I translated by google. And then I bougt every single component online.
Nowadays the systems changed, but some issues are still there and new issues have arisen. And still, the knowledge in China is still decades ahead. So it is even more worth to DIY nowadays.
I have a 4.8 kW system in two strings of 2.4 each, one on the shed/woodstore roof, and one on the loft extension roof. The shed string collects all kinds of crap from an over hanging Yew tree, of which the rain washes most it off. I have got up there and cleaned them with a brush and a bit of soapy water, made no noticeable difference to be honest. What has made a difference is the 7368kWHr I have generated since Feb 2023.
Nice couple of EICR faults in the video!! I hope they were picked up and reported.
Depends on the weather. If it does not rain for months, it needs cleaning. Otherwise rain will clean it sufficiently for proper output.
It would be a major miracle if anything out in the elements was actually self-cleaning! It would be a first in fact. I see installations where no thought has been given to access for cleaning and even brushing snow off them if it settles.
If I had a roof mounted array, I would want a good catwalk along them so I could safely reach them with the correct cleaning equipment so I was not tied into someone else [or some company] charging me for such a basic requirement.
Keeping trees from shading is obvious, but trees encourage the growth of lichen and this needs dealing with before it gets going. Ever looked at a car's guttering if the vehicle is frequently parked under or near trees?
As for dust accumulation, this probably means the panels need properly cleaning more often than annually. So my point about having a cat walk and doing it yourself is perfectly shown.
Best wishes from George
How much will your house insurance rise when fitting solar panels in case they get smashed to bit by a unusually large hail storm that destroyed the solar park in Wales worth thinking about 😊😊
The calculation about cleaning doesn't really stack up as you assume all power lost is power you have to pay for when in reality a lot of it may be power you don't feed back which attracts a much lower payment. I can say that, living 100% off grid cleaning does make a big difference especially with low angle panels. In many ways firmware updates really shouldn't be required as the system should have been optimally programmed in the first place at manufacture. All too often what the firmware updates do is to ensure you then have to do another firmware update to address the problems introduced by the previous one. I have a policy of reading exactly what the update will do before doing an update as a lot of the time the changes aren't relevant to your installation. My biggest indicator of correct performance of the system is monitoring. I also have a feeling that thermal imaging might prove to be a very useful tool in spotting problems in panels and connections but that is more from a maintaining engineer's perspective than an owners and will be more useful in older systems when considering upgrading.
Thanks for another professional vlog regarding solar.
Since I installed my solar roof, my neighbors has built a new house shading from direct sun in three months with various shadowing. How to handle that? 👍🇩🇰🇩🇰🇩🇰😎
Oh no! I guess that’s something you can’t predict 😫
Matches.
@ It’s a solid brick house, but thanks anyway.👍
I've never come across a home insurance company wanting an EICR?
Neither had I until my (old) broker had a quote that insisted on one - needless to say I told them where to go 😂
There is definitely..very much. A need for an inspection of solar and battery systems to check if everything is ok. Unfortunately there is a few cowboys who do carry out inspections on homes where the people , usually retired, don't understand their solar. I know they are replacing parts like inverters..
So you ignore the damage of washing on the system especially hitting it with a big pole from the ground, I suspect that has a negative impact beyond grub
My panels are 15 years old and are just washed by the rain. They work fine
Have you compared electricity production between when they were installed and now? Even clean they wont be as efficient as new, I would be interested if you could share. Older panels produce less power than modern ones too but its not worth the cost of upgrading them.
@@st200ol The claim from the manufacturers is that after 20 years (or even more) they still produce 80% what they did when new.
@ That’s the claim but what’s the reality? I was just interested in real numbers. We have an example in this video of someone replacing panels that are not that old relatively speaking. I have DIY panels on my shed roof, small scale stuff but they work. The issue I have with a solar installation is the ridiculous labour costs £10k to install at most £2k worth of equipment just doesn’t seem good value to me.
@st200ol I think it is reality.
Because they would be prosecuted for false advertising - or whatever the offence is, if they were making it up.
@@deang5622big assumption you've made is that the 20yr claim is verified. Do you really think they leave panels outside for 20yrs so the marketing is accurate! Can guarantee they have all sorts of language around lab settings and testing conditions to justify that claim of 20yrs
i would argue cleaning them once a year should be enough and i would it time right after the pollen season and thenn watch how dirty they get, the pv system at my parents house was installed back in 2006 and as far as i know only cleaned once but the roof has a 45° angle and the sharp panels they got back then show little degradation installed are 30 180w panels and in the summer sun they still reach 5,4kwp when the sun is at the right angle, really stunning only thing we had to change was the inverter 3 times the first two times we got an solarmaxx single phase (the company don´t exist anymore) and the third i changed myself (since i became an electrician myself in the meantime) to an Tripower from SMA its a threephase, easier since we´re from germany and it isn´t allowed anymore to install an inverter bigger than 4kw to a single phase but since then we had no more Problems with the system and it runs like a treat.
Hi my friend i have a question i live at in wednesbury A bit out of your area.
But i have watched your channel quite a bit ,very good.
I had a Tesla powerwall2 fitted by stratford energy but they removed my v04 voltage optimizer even though i wanted to keep it,They used my Henley block connection to make it easier for them but they did promise that they would leave those open for me
But my question is Is there any reason by my V04 could still not be used with the Tesla powerwall 2 as i had paid £400 to have it fitted and now it is just lay on the floor in the Garage. I do feel upset about this
Please can you put me out of my misery one way or another
If you are getting heavy rain like this year is it still worth it ?
Great video which prompts a quick question - I have a 2.8kwp system fitted in November 2011. It's a dumb system. Using the PVGIS website, it tells me that the system should be generating around 2677kwh per year, 13 years is 34,801kwh. My generation meter in Nov 2024 read 32,822kwh or 94.3% of theoretical.
Does this sound about right given panel degradation and all other factors?
Yeah that sounds pretty reasonable!
EICRs are an interesting point wrt solar installations. There seems to be so much in the way of guidance by various authorities, BS7671 / IET CoP / RS62 and so on.....
If you carried out an EICR on a solar PV installation, would you check for / pass-fail an installation which didn't have AC and DC isolation at the inverter/battery? This seems to be the most contentious area that I've found with divided opinion. How would you handle this?
Maybe I have been lucky .. se facing 14 x 250 panels , installed 10 years ago. We recently had retro fitted Zappi,Libbi, Eddi, and in summer we saw 3.6kW being generated. We are in the countryside, and no shading, so I presume our air is cleaner than average, and annual snow cover on the panels which always slides off in the thaw, may have helped the panels stay clean, but to have no drop in output over 10 years without any intervention counts as “self-cleaning” in my book. As the panels were on FIT they paid for themselves about 4 years ago, so if there was a serious condition now, I would probably still be quids in if I replaced with 14 x 450w panels.
That’s great!
If I clean my solar panels using tap water, can I dry the panels with a squeegee to prevent mineral spots?
Theoretically it's the same principle as traditional window cleaning so yes BUT there is technique involved to stop water running down after and leaving marks
Don’t worry about water spots on the panels…. Natural rainwater in the UK has a PH of about 5.0 to 6.0 which is slightly acidic, the minerals in tap water (that cause water spots) are alkaline and over time will be dissolved by the rain.
@alanwood9804 I have window cleaning customers who have allowed mains water to dry on windows (watering plants, water tank overflow etc) and the marks remain on the windows years after regardless of normal cleaning and rain water (I will say we are in a particularly hard water area)
Deffo worth getting them cleaned! I am a window cleaner and we do loads of one offs and even some regular scheduled solar panel cleans with a pure water system. Remember the dirt only gets worse a lot/most of the time, so what may be a 10-15% reduction in say a year, year 2 may be 15-20%+ reduction (depending on type of dirt) and progressively over time they are generating way less with each passing day. And yeah as long as access is good £5 a panel is about right :-)
Thanks!
I don't find water gets them clean enough.
@@steveth1000 Depends on the level of dirt/muck. Where needed we use a cleaner to help sometimes.
@koidiaries what cleaner do you use please?
I have a "big stick", from a brand called "Docapole". It comes in 5/7/9meter extensions. It comes with squeegee and microfibre attachments. It's well worth it.
Definitely worth cleaning annually . You get a build up of muck, bird poo, and lichens - especially on the bottom lip of the panel. I've found it can sort out panels that are performing maybe 5% below other panels, and restore the performance.
Top tip though: I found my Class II panels were showing 90 Volts AC between the panel frame and my ladder. That wasn't so much a shock as a tingle! The water in the gutters, and the neighbouring wet roof tiles were also giving me a tingle.
So it turns out that there's two things:
1. Class 2 panel insulation does degrade over time, and water seepage along the bottom edge of the panel is a thing.
2. AC capacitive pickup on the DC wiring from the AC source is a thing.
So the advice I've received is always isolate your panels on the AC isolator prior to cleaning.
Other things:
1. The tightness of the solar panel clamps can loosen up with repeated thermal expansion/contraction. Not sure how to fix these, without some kind of "Torque Drone Screwdriver". Walking on the panels is of course bad for your safety and bad for the panels obviously.
2. Get a thermal camera. If you see any "hot spots" on your panel, then that indicates that the bypass diodes are passing current. If your panel is shaded then that can be expected, but if it's in full sun then it could indicate there's fault of one of the cell loops (or an optimiser fault if you have those).
Good info thanks!
@Artisanelectrics do you have experience with three phase Enphase residential installation? Just had 44 panels installed and I am trying to find out if a three phase 2.5mm HO7 AC conductor cable for a 22 micros IQ8-HC branch around 30 meters distance from the DB can handle peak demand in summer or if a thicker 4mm or 6mm would have been better suited from the junction box to distribution board?
I think they usually recommend 2.5mm as it’s always limited to 20 Amps per circuit anyway
@ thank you for getting back to me. Also just heard back from Enphase. Their advisory recommendation is to go for 4-6mm to limit voltage rise to less than 1% on peak production days.
In Far North Queensland the biggest issue is mold... Best to pressure wash it off.
On the underside yes, they get terribly moldy. On the glass though, not seen it myself. Pressure washing it off is a bad idea. You'll force water around the sealant on the edges of the cell sheet. If there is a problem with the encapsulation you'll increase (electrical) leakage. Best to use a broom and non-ammonia based detergent.
Keeping you firmware up to date can hurt your performance if the manufacturer wants to "brick" your installation and sell you the new hotness.
Enel-X recently did this to "Juice Box" EV chargers when they pulled out of North America.
Wow that’s awful
I have also seen that the provider changes router so that the earlier configuration was 192.168.1.x while the new was 192.168.0.x and that trashed the entire solution totally.
For devices that shall be always online I prefer static addresses and not dynamic, so this means that I know which address each device has and can see if it's working.
Many devices are supported by Home Assistant and can be working entirely locally so you can have some features working even if you lose internet.
Great advice. You’ve just talked me out of installing solar. I don’t need this to add this much work/maitenance to my life.
Updating an app every now and then? Getting in a window cleaner once a year? Electrical safety report every 5 years (which your house needs regardless)? "Too much work"? Puzzling!? Have you picked up so little from this video and this channels super high-quality content? 🧐🤔
@@rogerflatt8054 He talks about hiring a window cleaner twice a year. He guesses that it'll be cheap. I doubt it. He talks about a FIRMWARE update, not an app update. He talks about choosing the right installer or you may end up with an installation that doesn't produce. How should I know? I'm not an industry insider! So perhaps I should choose the higher bidder? $$$$ He talks about keeping an eye on things because sometimes people don't realize it's not working for months/years. He doesn't talk about hail storms, but that's a common occurrence where I live. That can't be cheap. Buying power from my utility is a better deal for me.
Another solution for the issue with WiFi is use a name for ssid and same password, then when you change provider or hub you change that back with same password and presto all devices are connected without going round the house connecting things
I’ve used RainX on my Motorhome and seems to work. Use battery water. People don’t know that it’s a clean water.
If you are going to change you Wi-Fi router note down the SSID and Password then on the new router put the same SSID and password in, then everything will just work.
Great tip!
9 year old system here. I clean the panels once a year and make sure the DC isolators on the roof are not seeing water ingress (silly Australian regulation now rescinded). 100WM produced so far and nil issues to date. System paid its way at the 5 year mark and has saved about $7000 AUD so far.
I do know people who went with cheaper systems and early Chinese inverters. Lots of inverter failures and ground faults from water ingress.
Great info thanks!
What do you use to clean your panels, water only or a chemical as well?
Yes, best thing that ever happened getting rid of that DC rooftop isolator requirement. My second array didn't have one and I removed the first arrays isolator shortly after.
What units are WM?
I don't recognise that as a standard unit of electricity.
I have had my 4kw system on my roof for 10 years ..never cleaned them and there is no noticeable drop in their performance yet. ( I average around 4000 kwhours a year)
Can hailstones permenantly damage panels,because while I've lived here in the midlands we have had at least one a year..thanks
Normally they won’t unless they are the size of tennis balls LOL
I am trying to advise my sister at present. She has solar panels, an electric car (with a modest range) and is about to install batteries. I have tipped her off about getting more than a 3 KW inverter but something else has happened that made me think again. Her car needs to be charged before finishing a journey from her address to the rest of the family so a bigger range is much need. I have become aware of some Fisker Ocean cars with car to load ability being available very cheap. So my question is this can you get a setup of an inverter to and from a charger and use the car as your storage. This fiskers are cheap as the company has gone bump but you can buy what was a £60K car with delivery miles and a 113 KWH battery for £20k. Can she get a system that would allow her to use the car for battery storage and not bother with £5k for less than 10KW of home battery and get a 400+ mile range car into the bargain.
Performance gains versus cost of cleaning is simply not worth it IME - this is from having panels up for 11 years now - any dust, lichen or small guano is negligible - I proved this to myself by cleaning 4/8 panels during the grey days of early November and it made no difference whatsoever - my overall yearly output is still on par which the designed capacity of 4kwp. My main takeaway was that having optimisers with SolarEdge has provided more gains with shading etc but I can monitor each panel and can see that after 11 years, one of my panels has a failed bypass diode so it is down to 2/3rds power output which needs fixing. In that time one optimiser has failed (only on the data monitoring as the power output was still fine) and this was replaced by SE. The only person that benefits from cleaning PV is the person being paid to do it!
The majority of WIFI issues are caused when you connect to a dual 2.4GHz/5GHz network. On your router you can also create a single 2.4GHz WIFI network and use this for all local monitoring devices and all or most of your network connection issues will disappear.
I have a 10 year old PV system and I can promise that when they are cleaned the generation increases. I have mine cleaned every March. Considering changing them for new generation ones too.
Great!
How much do you pay for cleaning? Are they on a 2 storey sloping roof?
@@st11gxavier71 Yes on a standard sloping roof and I pay ?£10 a clean. My window cleaner just gets on with it in the spring.
Hmm enough to put me off solar panells because of the add-on costs such as cleaning and here in Australia such cleaning services - if you can find one especially in a rural area where I live it is going to eat into the savings of having solar panels, and again simply because there is far more dust in the air for example out here..
If your covering solar then you should be talking about geo engineering and the thick white haze that covers the skys when they want it too , so really the solar is only going to give on the basis of that and more people really should be investigating this and speaking up
Treat your PV panels with turtle wax rain repellent… it puts a film on the surface that effectively fills the micro undulations that are present on the surfaces and helps prevent dusts etc clinging to the micro imperfections on the panels surfaces, and when it rains (as rain carried micro sized bits of dirt from the atmosphere too), it also is repelled from the surfaces, so dirt is prevented from building up too… it also helps prevent bird poo and other items sticking to, or helps prevent (I.e. lichen) rooting on the surface…and easier to clean off with, for example soapy water and hose pipe and/or long reach brush etc… only costs £6 a bottle which is more than enough for several (annual) treatments - much cheaper than paying someone to come clean them…👍🏻
Wonder if that would void the warranty?
I’m in western USA, so don’t have a lichen issue nor have a poo issue as the hawks take care of the pigeons. 😅 Our panels get cleaned once a year at the end of summer when the handyman goes up to roof (2 1/2 stories) to clean the gutters. He uses a diluted Windex solution and sponge cleaners on poles. Really only cleaning off dust and pollen. We have been lucky to have only lost 5% performance on our 25 year old panels. Every year I’m expecting failures and having to replace the whole system.
Can you clean them with artificially softened water?
Pure water is what window cleaners would use - they purify it via reverse osmosis
I know how window cleaners do it,! That's not my question. It was can I use softened water? As I have a water softener and I use it to clean the car etc. I have a pressure washer which powers a soft rotary brush. I used that with extension poles last year to clean my panels with soft water and they seem okay with no degradation. It shifted a lot of bird dirt and lichen. I did get a window cleaner to try, but they didn't fancy it. I borrowed their equipment, stood on top of my van to reach the panels at the right angle, it didn't work.@@artisanelectrics
Jordan does Artisan Electrics travel as far away from home as Scotland?
We have partners all over the country so let us know what you need I’m sure we can help one way or another
My Sanyo HiT panels are 15 years old, never been cleaned and have suffered no noticeable degradation in performance.
Another thing to remember is heat... My panels make 2500W peak in the middle of winter.... Summer, with 40+C 1500W , heat degrades the output performance of your panels depending on how high your temps get... This is proven on my system..... Also.... Having to HAVE an internet connection is nothing but red Lights for me, kudos to Victron and a hand full of others that do not REQUIRE and internet connection to have to operate.....
How safe are solar panels in extremely strong winds
If properly installed, they will be as secure as your roof.
Depends on how strong the winds are!
Without having a reference panel to compare the output to it difficult to quantify the cleaning benefit, have had panels since 2011 first few years they stay clean by them selves. Had a problem lichen a few years back not easy to clean off but didn’t actually appear to make that much difference. If you have a system that monitors the output of each panel it would be ideal to clean half the panels and compare the output of the cleaned and uncleaned that will tell you for sure. Not convinced cleaning with demin water alone will prevent buildup of lichen, think you would need some bleach or similar in the mix
Unfortunately a lot of U.S. installers are paid per panel, so they more they can install per day the more they make, so they are not installed properly, Our neighbor had to call an electrician out to rewire the system, the installers almost burned his house down thy how the connected them into the main panel.
My question is why do installers just not provide how to set up the Wifi or system passwords for the inverter etc for basic mantaince like reboots and reconnecting wifi etc, what about when people move and things arnt passed on there no access to inverters at all companies go bust just doesn't make sense to me surly the homeowers should be given all the access the installer to the inverters, or am i missing something obvious apart form they dont want people messing with them
I would have thought the hard water spots would just wash off with rainwater though?
If you clean them in the rain you MIGHT get away with it but if it's dry you'll get marks. Once you get marks they are not coming off - trust me - I've seen it with my window cleaning customers
Yep…. Natural rainwater in the UK has a PH of about 5.0 to 6.0 which is slightly acidic, the minerals in tap water (that cause water spots) are alkaline and over time will be dissolved by the rain.
Encouraging consumers to have inspection and testing at any level is great. Both EICRs and solar. Good work getting that message out there.
We need to pushback against the aggressive miss selling around solar maintenance. Scaring consumers into inverter and panel upgrades. Double glazing sales people destroying the reputation of a sector.
Hopefully electricians can help bring some sense to what is a largely broken system
Well said!
Maintenance? Ever seen solar panel growing lichen/moss/green vegetation? I have. The public don't understand, they think it is fit & forget.
10k quid for maintenance
Just remember investing 20k into solar could just be better just investing the money in the stock market, the Q's return you an average yearly rate of 14.5% over 30years. Compound that over 20 years is a 337k gain on your 20k.
Depends on a lot of factors, every install is different
@artisanelectrics can you give a 20 year return on a solar system you installed. Would be interesting against the market.
"The best way to get a good installation is to use a good installer". Yep. Now how does Joe Public find one that actually does one and not just promise one? Solve that!
Just contact us 😎
WHATS ALL THE LITTLE BOXER FOR
0:45 "high end" just means Rip off prices... 🙄🤦♀️🤣
Prices start at £20,000... You are a joke and con man.
Solar seems like a masisve waste of money. The amount of materials and cost required to make sure a tiny amount of electricity to save a couple of hundred quid just isn't worth it at all.
Depends how much energy you use
Power is in kW
Energy is in kWh...
Which parts of the battery solar system need updates? Also the app should talk to the parts ...
I assume that the synergy system allows these things to be changed ... Always useful to have a 30m lan cable to get the device back on the network to refix the wifi
If you change WiFi router just change the name and password to the old one job done
Buy a cheap Linksys repeater. Change the name on it. It will last all internet changes
How are probably most customers going to know the’ve just picked a good , bad or incompetent installation company , if they turn up on a horse would be a good indication maybe .
I’ve been watching your TH-cam channel for a few years now. Randomly I was going to Norfolk from Southampton on Friday randomly I thought I sore one of your vans south bound on the A / M11 at about 3.30am. Put me out of my misery have you got a grey van with your logo ???😂
Poor trees need sunlight to make the air we breathe. Maybe make sure you fit the solar where it will be able to collect light rather than cutting or trimming the trees . I guess people desperate for electricity will do anything for some sunlight!
Jason.... Still waiting for an example installation cost. Perhaps an installation which is not the subject of a video.
I'm truly grateful for your videos which reinforce the fact that solar is a waste of money 😮😮 unless you can prove otherwise of course? Bet you won't though.
This video emphasised this. In our case you'd have to pay for scaffolding (£800) every 6 months to get to the roof to clean the panels. We have shading so apparently we'll need a tree surgeon every few years to trim the very large trees near us.
Please tell me that this is some comedy being performed on people who should know better than waste their money on this nonsense.
The biggest problem with cleaning solar panels is they are all the way up there. Scaffolding is needed to install them so for maximum safety scaffolding should be installed to clean them. I wonder how many injuries there are a year because of people cleaning panels in a dangerous way.
@@st200ol Incorrect logic.
When they are being installed the entire panel is being lifted. And then the installer is standing on the roof to complete the installation.
This is not the case for cleaning.
You can use a cherry picker.
Why go to the cost and time errecting scaffolding when a cherry picker will enable you to do the cleaning job in a much cheaper and quicker way?
@ I don’t have a cherry picker though, how much are they to hire? The more stubborn stuff would require getting onto the roof and scraping too. Just saying for a DIYer it’s not so easy. I have DIY panels on my shed roof and there is a small risk involved with cleaning them as there is anytime a ladder is used but I suppose I’ll just have to take the risk every year or so.
How about a "rain off"(car windscreen protection) type product from a quality recognised manufacturer to apply during installation and each year thereafter to keep the panels clean, I believe the "Eden project" uses this. Obviously, accessibility and Health and safety taken into consideration.
You have to re apply every few months.... What's the point
My phone gets automatically firmware update, and I would expect the same from a modern solar system
You don't need software updates.
If the software was written properly in the first place.
You could argue that you want new features. But exactly what new features do you want in a PV installation?
All panels deteriorate . What is this " TEST OF TIME RUBBISH "".
Before you get solar ,i had a power bil of 45$ and 12 solar panels origen adet a 40$ charge to the bill for exporting my solar to the grid ,all my solar panels is used to up and to maintane power lines ,i am no beter of ,😂😂😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
So ... *yawn* Masks work, bro. Time for your booster.
Happiness is a climate that will never, ever change. Today's climate = the epoch maximum.
Ever!!
*** PUKES ***