Peter Pedantic was totally right, his civilization is falling apart and the holo tech can help. And Chakotay finally is a captain and he didn't have to throw any coffee out of the airlock to get there.
6:00 Odd that the holodecks aren’t compatible with the other power systems on Voyager, but they are compatible with never before seen generators from a previously unknown alien species? 7:45 The Hirogen were somehow able to subdue the entire crew, killing few if any of them along the way despite hunting being their thing, even before they found the holodecks and came up with this plan? You’d think Janeway would have set the auto destruct when the Hirogen boarded Voyager… she did it with the Vidiians and tried to do it with the Kazon. 8:58 I like how the simulation messes with Janeway and Chakotay here; it casts him as the military captain and her as a literal Maquis. 11:15 Not sure why the holodeck would need to be four decks tall. You can walk for miles in a small holodeck so going up should work the same way. If this is Hirogen work, then Voyager is apparently missing a lot of other rooms now…
6:00 Pretty much. If we're generous, we could argue it's a one-way conversion. Normal power makes HoloPower, but HoloPower can't make normal power. Smells like bullshit, but it works if you don't look at it too hard. 7:45 I thought of this at the time, and there's a plausible answer. In the episode Hunters, Tuvok and Seven are subdued by a beam that knocks them out from the Hirogen ship. If we assume Peter Pedantic knew about the holodecks prior to the attack, his decision to not kill could be deliberate. SubdueBeam could also account for the lack of self-destruct. 11:15 Yeah, I've mentioned this elsewhere. If that's a true representation of the new size, Voyager lost 2 transporter rooms, an emergency mass transporter, the holodeck support gubbins, and 2 officer quarters. But then the holodeck is basically bonkers physics anyway so don't think about it.
kudos to the writers for remembering that Kim studied holo engineering at the academy, but so did Belana so it's obvious which one they wanted to include in the main story.
I'm almost as anxious to see your opinion on the conclusion of two-part episodes as I was to see the conclusion of the actual episode. I don't think I worded that correctly.
Did I accidentally channel a couple decades old memory when writing the Space Dog skit? I'm not sure if that makes it worse or better. I'll put any potential plagiarism down to him.
Thanks for your in-depth analysis which I find both helpful and amusing ‘Peter Pedantic’ cracked me up I was in the middle of watching this episode, I checked my phone and lo and behold here’s your review. It was on Heroes and Icons last night and I recorded it, as usual🖖☮️🙏
@@Unlimited_Lives the thing that annoyed me the most was Neelix, he never grew on me🥲 the only other thing that bothered me was the way they snuck in that storyline about Chacotay and Seven ‘out of nowhere’ and it was forced. They should actually hooked them up the final season and would have been hot. In TNG, the Captain, Ryker, Beverly and Troi were all getting hooked up with multiple love interests and all were getting laid. On Voyager we only saw Tom and Belanna hook up
All hail Space Dog! This was a pretty decent episode(s). If only there had been the budget to to have hundreds of hologram soldiers rampaging through Voyager / The Secret Bunker corridors. Have some Klingons and other species pouring out and adding to the Hirogen wood chipper.
Oh yes! They are what get me thru the day when they drop, lol Also I think THIS one is where Mulgrew makes fun of the FIRST Janeway, the French actress Bujod, LMFAO!
😄 thank you, I like to use my Patreon powers for good, not evil! Well, maybe a _bit_ of evil, in that Captain Pédant will be forced to break his usual deadpan tone and be as enthusiastic as a dabo girl when my wheel entry inevitably comes up. After that, who knows? Maybe I’ll add “FIZZBIN!!!” to the wheel! Btw nice Flat Eric pfp, that takes me back (and makes me hear that song in my head) ❤️
@@DissociatedWomenIncorporated well played diss women inc! Hoping for dabo in the upload that should be coming in any minute now. Didn't get FIZZBIN w/o googelino though. I'm a filthy TOS ignorer, maybe every now and then episode watcher.
A fun premise, that doesn't quite hold up under scrutiny. - We're told that for thousands of years the Hirogen have operated as nomadic hunters who take pride in displaying trophies of their conquests. Hunting holograms seems antithetical to the very nature of the species. How do you get trophies from holograms? Are they NFTs? - Wouldn't you think the Hirogen would have far more interest in (replicating) the Doc's mobile emitter? A hologram that can roam free? Now that's a hunt! - Putting an Hirogen medic in charge of treating non Hirogen patients is... well, the opposite of smart. - How did the Hirogen find out about Voyager's holodecks anyway? - Judging by the explosion, we're supposed to believe holodecks are at least four decks high? Awfully big for a room designed to give the illusion of being big. And why is Garrett Wang even in this series at this point? Even when Harry Kim gets to play a somewhat pivotal part, the character feels so tragically superfluous. I like the actor as a person, but... for him we lost Kes?
My thoughts: 1 - Peter Pedantic is very much an outlier on embracing holographic hunts. But he understands a species that doesn't change is a species in stagnation. Even he know's it'll be difficult, but the alternative is ever increasing obsolescence. That's a pretty good motivator. 2 - A fair point. Depending on how advanced you think the Hirogen are, they might have a chance with 29th century Terran tech. The viability of that is probably tied to the level of stagnation since building the supertech relays (if they actually built the relays in the first place...) 3 - Two ways of looking at this I guess. There's the Terminator school of thought where anatomical knowledge makes them better killers, or the Superior Species school of thought where other species are beneath them. Not sure which way the Hirogen would fall on that one. They're clearly of the belief they're superior, but also place great emphasis on the prey. 4 - If we're being generous, they learned about them from CandyHirogen who was treated by our holographic Doctor. Not probable but possible. 5 - Copied from elsewhere: There's some artistic licence or a nod to Kim's expansion work here. The schematics show hoodecks occupying only decks 6&5. If the size shown in the episode is correct they've ripped out 2 transporter rooms, an emergency mass transporter room, the holodeck support machinery, and 2 officer's quarters. Completely agree on Kim. I've no issue with Garrett Wang, it's purely that the character is a complete non-entity and has been since the first episode.
@@Unlimited_Lives Re Garrett Wang, gossip is that he was meant to be leaving but was changed to Jennifer Liens after he won "sexiest male on TV" or some such nonsense so they felt obligated to keep him for the sexiness.
My issue with the Holodecks in Voyager is that they become the TARDIS, TNG and DS9 had them big enough to create a room or street that fit a handful of people, In Voyager they are big enough to create a large town that can accommodate the crew who go their separate ways without any of them hitting the walls. That being said though this is a fun two parter
Oh, I absolutely agree that the holodeck is very much a McGuffin. It completely breaks physics. That's why we need to disengage our brains whenever it's a holodeck episode. To be fair, this one does try to address it by expanding the physical space, but it's still utter tosh.
@Naes Galaxy Canonically, on Voyager at least, they're only 2 decks tall. Working on the stacking principle, where every viewpoint is stimulated uniquely for each participant, you don't need the holodeck at all. Have personal 6' x 6' holopods and network them. More efficient, less space, greater capacity, option to run a greater variety of simulations. In fact, you could replace the sonic showers in personal quarters with them and just have a shower program. There's 2 holodecks worth of space I've just saved. All of which is to say the whole thing's an interesting but questionably implemented McGuffin, and we internet nerds should stop thinking too hard about it and just go along for the ride.
I have to agree with the individual viewpoint option. With some "science" blah blah about a treadmill like option for walking and running, then you would just need an arms length of distance between people. The holodeck would then need to only generate an optical bubble of images around the eyes and sensory interaction sheath around the body. After that you could stack as many people as possibly into the room.
Pedantic criticism of this episode. The Citroen 2cv that appears in the background was not produced until 1949, and the model not until 1980. So clearly more historical accuracy is needed in holodeck program writing.
There's some artistic licence or a nod to Kim's expansion work here. The schematics show hoodecks occupying only decks 6&5. If the size shown in the episode is correct they've ripped out 2 transporter rooms, an emergency mass transporter room, the holodeck support machinery, and 2 officer's quarters...
Question - why did the Hirogen, after reviewing the historical logs, decide the side most likely to enioy hunting/ fighting were the Nazis and not, say, Clint Eastwood in "Where Eagles Dare"?
On a deeper level, Perhaps Peter Pedantic perceives phiosophical parallels between Hirogens and Naziz. A similar self-defeating extremeness, overconfidence, pursuit of pointless goals; that he's hoping his people will realize through rôleplay.
@@mcewanalex They are literally hunting other races because they think they are the superior race. You don't hunt races you think you equal to, or are above you. (Other than for protection or other reasons. But that is not exactly hunting.)
And only one of them ends with the aliens being kicked off. Janeway makes sort of peace with the Hirogen. Hmm, what about Patterns of Force? One could argue that the aliens are just humans without being from earth, but SS Spock surely counts.
What was interesting is that I wonder if the lack of trust that Janeway has for Seven bled through into the ww2 characters. She and Tuvok acted like she was a threat, something they had to be wary of, much like how I imagine they must view the actual Seven with her attachment to her Borg background.
i went on Patreon and saw that you were gonna airlock all the redshirt ensigns. so i have subscribed at the Lt level. i take my oath as a Starfleet officer very seriously. lol
I MADE NO SUCH CLAIM!¹ Thank you/congratulations! As today's video (09 June) is already rendered & uploaded, your promotion won't be in the credits of this one. I'll make sure to add it to the next though! ¹I'll admit, it was heavily implied.
Possible Spoils. In the next episode, we get to hear, "Janeway making a deal with the Hirogen by giving them technology (that violates the Prime Direct) is not anyway going to came back to haunt them. Right." Or something to that affect.
I appreciate the spoilers being below the fold so I can skip them, as I'm trying to limit learning about what's coming where possibe. Very decent of you.
@@Unlimited_Lives I try to do that when I can. Sometimes it takes an edit to make sure it's below the fold. Though, the spoil was my prediction on what you might say about the next episode. Though, it is highly possible that it could reveal a plot point of a future episode, which is why I marked it as "possible spoils" (So you are warned.) I didn't realize you haven't seen all the episodes. I will keep that in mind for future comments.
Technically, I've seen them. It was when they first aired, and my memory of them is utter bobbins. There have been one or two here and there where I remember stuff (Death Wish for example came back to me as soon as I saw Quinn's face) but most are essentially fresh. Re-viewed was meant to be a pun on that.
I'm always ready to accept more patron names for the wheel. Give me a shout on there if you think of one (or more as a few people have submitted lists).
@@Unlimited_Lives Are there any female names on the wheel? There really ought to be a separate girls's wheel on the off-chance that featured baddie might ever be female. I realise it could be a long wait, but at least it would mean I could look forward to the Borg queen being referred to as Penelope Spugmuffin. Also perhaps an NB wheel. I realise that any alien not obviously female will likely be assumed male, but perhaps it's time to rethink that.
I gave this some thought a little while back. I considered a seperate name wheel depending on who it's for, but decided against it for a few reasons: - Multiple wheels increase the paperwork by 100% each time. - Multiple wheels mean fewer entries on each wheel. - It means making assumptions on gender for species we know nothing about¹. - Only 3 of the current entries on the wheel (07/06) could be considered overtly male. Most make no mention. - Trek has a show where the lead woman is called Michael, which rather renders the whole thing moot. As a result of the above, all names go on the same wheel. That said, I welcome people adding traditionally female names so we have a nice big melting pot. Penelope Spugmuffin the Klingon would be just as valid if the Wheel deemed it so. If you feel this is unreasonable and have a workable solution, I'm open to hearing it. We try to be inclusive here. ¹Yes, I tend to refer to new alien entities as he/him, usually based on the actor portraying them. I realise that's not ideal, but OldTrek tends to make that assumption itself. The Hirogen in the episode 'Hunters' refer to 8472 as "he" (which I overruled and changed to 'they' as that feels particularly egregious²), and Voyager's crew refer to Hirogen as "he" despite no biological data on either. For all we know, both species are non-binary or androgynous (like Morn is suggested to be in DS9 by Odo, despite always being referred to as "he"). ²Why did I change 8472 and not the Hirogen? Because we know that many Milky Way species are of common ancestry after being seeded by progenitors, so we can make some (admittedly often wrong) assumptions about them. We can make no such assumption for those who don't bear the humanoid form that is a hallmark of common ancestry from that seed, or are from other galaxies/dimensions/whatever.
@@Unlimited_Lives Thanks for your considered reply. All these points are entirely valid, and I would not wish extra paperwork on anyone. I have now patreonized in order to add to the distinctiveness of the wheel. The show was a product of its time, when male was considered the default, and it shows through in so many unaddressed assumptions. I used to love TNG when I was younger, but watching now it seems to have acquired a layer of sexism that surely wasn't there all those years ago...
@@Rei-Rei Welcome! Yeah... there are some questionable inclusions and oversights. I took a bit of stick (from a tiny minority it must be added) for calling out Q's behaviour in The Q and the Grey, but it was the right choice. I think it's promising that most can see these things for what they are now though.
I really didn't like this one. It felt to me like the writers just wanted to do Secret Armies with Voyager and everything else is an excuse to set that up, but I didn't buy it at all. I don't get why the Hirogen would be attracted to this scenario, they're not even pretending to hunt in it, it's completely unrelated to their Planet Hat which would normally be fine expect we're told that the entire thing is meant to appeal to said Hat without the downsides it was bringing, and I don't buy why it would at all.
I always disliked these sort of episodes, such a cheap way of shoehorning in normally inappropriate (for a sci-fi show) stories which end up being reverted with no consequence when the episode is over, making it completely pointless and disposable.
Today's thought experiment: Why weren't these Hirogen taller like the ones we saw in Hunter and Prey?
They’re a nomadic people. We just so happened to come across the tall lads sub-faction first
They hired shorter actors for this episode.
Hirogen height shaming. Are there female Hirogen or children hirogen or green skinned hirogen ??? Will never know.
Not enough protein shacks
They ran out of apple boxes
Having the holodeck simulation set during the Eugenics War is an idea I like.
Peter Pedantic was totally right, his civilization is falling apart and the holo tech can help.
And Chakotay finally is a captain and he didn't have to throw any coffee out of the airlock to get there.
He'd also had the work experience of murdering in cold blood so met that competency too.
The still shot of the Kazon kid at 12:19 just made me realize that the Kazon are just Klingons with bed-head.
Hey Space Dog, if you see a smiling koala, best to not acknowledge it.
6:00 Odd that the holodecks aren’t compatible with the other power systems on Voyager, but they are compatible with never before seen generators from a previously unknown alien species?
7:45 The Hirogen were somehow able to subdue the entire crew, killing few if any of them along the way despite hunting being their thing, even before they found the holodecks and came up with this plan?
You’d think Janeway would have set the auto destruct when the Hirogen boarded Voyager… she did it with the Vidiians and tried to do it with the Kazon.
8:58 I like how the simulation messes with Janeway and Chakotay here; it casts him as the military captain and her as a literal Maquis.
11:15 Not sure why the holodeck would need to be four decks tall. You can walk for miles in a small holodeck so going up should work the same way. If this is Hirogen work, then Voyager is apparently missing a lot of other rooms now…
6:00 Pretty much. If we're generous, we could argue it's a one-way conversion. Normal power makes HoloPower, but HoloPower can't make normal power. Smells like bullshit, but it works if you don't look at it too hard.
7:45 I thought of this at the time, and there's a plausible answer. In the episode Hunters, Tuvok and Seven are subdued by a beam that knocks them out from the Hirogen ship. If we assume Peter Pedantic knew about the holodecks prior to the attack, his decision to not kill could be deliberate. SubdueBeam could also account for the lack of self-destruct.
11:15 Yeah, I've mentioned this elsewhere. If that's a true representation of the new size, Voyager lost 2 transporter rooms, an emergency mass transporter, the holodeck support gubbins, and 2 officer quarters. But then the holodeck is basically bonkers physics anyway so don't think about it.
kudos to the writers for remembering that Kim studied holo engineering at the academy, but so did Belana so it's obvious which one they wanted to include in the main story.
I mean, if you were the Hirogen assigned to divide up the crew, would you put the half-klingon on the bench?
Also, Kim tried to get pregnant by Nazi Officer Man but they ended up having to use Torres instead.
@@mb2000 woulda been good character development for him.
Well there's an interesting thought. If the holodeck can change appearance as is shown here, what are the limitations of that?
3:53 did you change the image or were they really playing tic-tac-toe?
Gotta slip a quick visual gag in now and again.
I'm almost as anxious to see your opinion on the conclusion of two-part episodes as I was to see the conclusion of the actual episode. I don't think I worded that correctly.
I wonder if Peter pedantic found Janeway’s favourite gun in engineering….
The ones in her quarters are for fun, obvs
Has he found the one stuffed down the sofa ? Or in the house plant ? 🪴 she got them everywhere 😂
Fun fact! Those bones and guns were not Peter's, He simply found Janeway's memento box.
lol there was an episode of Enterprise where a crew member hallucinated a life while coalescing in the transporter buffer
Did I accidentally channel a couple decades old memory when writing the Space Dog skit? I'm not sure if that makes it worse or better. I'll put any potential plagiarism down to him.
Thanks for your in-depth analysis which I find both helpful and amusing ‘Peter Pedantic’ cracked me up
I was in the middle of watching this episode, I checked my phone and lo and behold here’s your review. It was on Heroes and Icons last night and I recorded it, as usual🖖☮️🙏
Thank you! I'm glad you're enjoying these. Thanks go to Adam Wetstein for naming Peter Pedantic!
@@Unlimited_Lives the thing that annoyed me the most was Neelix, he never grew on me🥲 the only other thing that bothered me was the way they snuck in that storyline about Chacotay and Seven ‘out of nowhere’ and it was forced. They should actually hooked them up the final season and would have been hot. In TNG, the Captain, Ryker, Beverly and Troi were all getting hooked up with multiple love interests and all were getting laid. On Voyager we only saw Tom and Belanna hook up
Ohh so that’s why B’elanna was randomly pregnant in this episode. It was during the season where a Roxanne was actually pregnant
It’s also why she wore that overcoat with the metal things (tools?) on the shoulder.
I suspect the Director was glad for any excuse not to have to film her only from the shoulders up (or carrying stuff).
All hail Space Dog! This was a pretty decent episode(s). If only there had been the budget to to have hundreds of hologram soldiers rampaging through Voyager / The Secret Bunker corridors. Have some Klingons and other species pouring out and adding to the Hirogen wood chipper.
nice for belanas actor that she didnt have to hide her bump
YAYYYYYYYYY!
Another great one!
Hungry for more!
Just finished writing the script for Friday's. Glad you're enjoying them!
Oh yes! They are what get me thru the day when they drop, lol
Also I think THIS one is where Mulgrew makes fun of the FIRST Janeway, the French actress Bujod, LMFAO!
Love 7's singing voice 😇 thanks for another great review 💚🌹💚 you are appreciated
Thank you! Hope your week is going well.
"DABO!!!" on the wheel is hilarious!
😄 thank you, I like to use my Patreon powers for good, not evil! Well, maybe a _bit_ of evil, in that Captain Pédant will be forced to break his usual deadpan tone and be as enthusiastic as a dabo girl when my wheel entry inevitably comes up. After that, who knows? Maybe I’ll add “FIZZBIN!!!” to the wheel! Btw nice Flat Eric pfp, that takes me back (and makes me hear that song in my head) ❤️
@@DissociatedWomenIncorporated well played diss women inc! Hoping for dabo in the upload that should be coming in any minute now.
Didn't get FIZZBIN w/o googelino though. I'm a filthy TOS ignorer, maybe every now and then episode watcher.
5:48 true fact. So did the writers and he only got screen time cos the episode ran short.
A fun premise, that doesn't quite hold up under scrutiny.
- We're told that for thousands of years the Hirogen have operated as nomadic hunters who take pride in displaying trophies of their conquests. Hunting holograms seems antithetical to the very nature of the species. How do you get trophies from holograms? Are they NFTs?
- Wouldn't you think the Hirogen would have far more interest in (replicating) the Doc's mobile emitter? A hologram that can roam free? Now that's a hunt!
- Putting an Hirogen medic in charge of treating non Hirogen patients is... well, the opposite of smart.
- How did the Hirogen find out about Voyager's holodecks anyway?
- Judging by the explosion, we're supposed to believe holodecks are at least four decks high? Awfully big for a room designed to give the illusion of being big.
And why is Garrett Wang even in this series at this point? Even when Harry Kim gets to play a somewhat pivotal part, the character feels so tragically superfluous. I like the actor as a person, but... for him we lost Kes?
My thoughts:
1 - Peter Pedantic is very much an outlier on embracing holographic hunts. But he understands a species that doesn't change is a species in stagnation. Even he know's it'll be difficult, but the alternative is ever increasing obsolescence. That's a pretty good motivator.
2 - A fair point. Depending on how advanced you think the Hirogen are, they might have a chance with 29th century Terran tech. The viability of that is probably tied to the level of stagnation since building the supertech relays (if they actually built the relays in the first place...)
3 - Two ways of looking at this I guess. There's the Terminator school of thought where anatomical knowledge makes them better killers, or the Superior Species school of thought where other species are beneath them. Not sure which way the Hirogen would fall on that one. They're clearly of the belief they're superior, but also place great emphasis on the prey.
4 - If we're being generous, they learned about them from CandyHirogen who was treated by our holographic Doctor. Not probable but possible.
5 - Copied from elsewhere: There's some artistic licence or a nod to Kim's expansion work here. The schematics show hoodecks occupying only decks 6&5. If the size shown in the episode is correct they've ripped out 2 transporter rooms, an emergency mass transporter room, the holodeck support machinery, and 2 officer's quarters.
Completely agree on Kim. I've no issue with Garrett Wang, it's purely that the character is a complete non-entity and has been since the first episode.
@@Unlimited_Lives Re Garrett Wang, gossip is that he was meant to be leaving but was changed to Jennifer Liens after he won "sexiest male on TV" or some such nonsense so they felt obligated to keep him for the sexiness.
My issue with the Holodecks in Voyager is that they become the TARDIS, TNG and DS9 had them big enough to create a room or street that fit a handful of people, In Voyager they are big enough to create a large town that can accommodate the crew who go their separate ways without any of them hitting the walls.
That being said though this is a fun two parter
Oh, I absolutely agree that the holodeck is very much a McGuffin. It completely breaks physics. That's why we need to disengage our brains whenever it's a holodeck episode.
To be fair, this one does try to address it by expanding the physical space, but it's still utter tosh.
@Naes Galaxy Canonically, on Voyager at least, they're only 2 decks tall. Working on the stacking principle, where every viewpoint is stimulated uniquely for each participant, you don't need the holodeck at all. Have personal 6' x 6' holopods and network them. More efficient, less space, greater capacity, option to run a greater variety of simulations. In fact, you could replace the sonic showers in personal quarters with them and just have a shower program. There's 2 holodecks worth of space I've just saved.
All of which is to say the whole thing's an interesting but questionably implemented McGuffin, and we internet nerds should stop thinking too hard about it and just go along for the ride.
I have to agree with the individual viewpoint option. With some "science" blah blah about a treadmill like option for walking and running, then you would just need an arms length of distance between people. The holodeck would then need to only generate an optical bubble of images around the eyes and sensory interaction sheath around the body. After that you could stack as many people as possibly into the room.
This was a great episode, very fun and rather trippy how mashed up everything is and absurd and silly it was, but worked in the world of Star Trek.
Pedantic criticism of this episode. The Citroen 2cv that appears in the background was not produced until 1949, and the model not until 1980. So clearly more historical accuracy is needed in holodeck program writing.
11:16 I never realized how tall the holodeck was. At least 4 maybe 5 deck high.
There's some artistic licence or a nod to Kim's expansion work here. The schematics show hoodecks occupying only decks 6&5. If the size shown in the episode is correct they've ripped out 2 transporter rooms, an emergency mass transporter room, the holodeck support machinery, and 2 officer's quarters...
I would like to assume that those are all Janeway's guns. Especially, after her pulling a gun from behind the captain's chair in a previous episode. 😂
Question - why did the Hirogen, after reviewing the historical logs, decide the side most likely to enioy hunting/ fighting were the Nazis and not, say, Clint Eastwood in "Where Eagles Dare"?
Because the Naziz lost, which, logically, makes taking their side, the more challenging option.
On a deeper level, Perhaps Peter Pedantic perceives phiosophical parallels between Hirogens and Naziz. A similar self-defeating extremeness, overconfidence, pursuit of pointless goals; that he's hoping his people will realize through rôleplay.
I'm guessing the writers wanted to make an analog between the Hirogen and Nazis. Basically, Hirogen are space Nazis.
@@Joshua-ew6ks But are they? I don't think we know enough of their society to make that judgement. Damn you, Trek writers!
@@mcewanalex They are literally hunting other races because they think they are the superior race. You don't hunt races you think you equal to, or are above you. (Other than for protection or other reasons. But that is not exactly hunting.)
My Replicator Replica dosen't work. I want my Cold Pressed Pratinum back ☹️
This is one of two episodes where aliens wear nazi uniforms. The other one is in Enterprise.
And only one of them ends with the aliens being kicked off.
Janeway makes sort of peace with the Hirogen.
Hmm, what about Patterns of Force? One could argue that the aliens are just humans without being from earth, but SS Spock surely counts.
So TOS never happened...?
@@iainhewitt aliens as in rubber forehead aliens, not aliens without rubber foreheads
@@Titamiva so... Pointy ears and green blood don't count? Huh. Learn something new every day.
@@iainhewitt I wasn't thinking Spock, but rather the aliens from that planet of hats.
I honestly love this 2 parter!
Fair. This does some fun stuff, and we've had far worse.
What was interesting is that I wonder if the lack of trust that Janeway has for Seven bled through into the ww2 characters. She and Tuvok acted like she was a threat, something they had to be wary of, much like how I imagine they must view the actual Seven with her attachment to her Borg background.
Ooooohhhhhh yeah.....these are the awesomest 2 part episodes voyager had.
How did you pronounce the SS ranks so well ? XD
i went on Patreon and saw that you were gonna airlock all the redshirt ensigns. so i have subscribed at the Lt level. i take my oath as a Starfleet officer very seriously. lol
I MADE NO SUCH CLAIM!¹ Thank you/congratulations! As today's video (09 June) is already rendered & uploaded, your promotion won't be in the credits of this one. I'll make sure to add it to the next though!
¹I'll admit, it was heavily implied.
I love the Killing Game, probably my personal favorite two parter in the whole franchise.
Found all Janway's hidden guns? Highly unlikely
Possible Spoils.
In the next episode, we get to hear, "Janeway making a deal with the Hirogen by giving them technology (that violates the Prime Direct) is not anyway going to came back to haunt them. Right." Or something to that affect.
I appreciate the spoilers being below the fold so I can skip them, as I'm trying to limit learning about what's coming where possibe. Very decent of you.
@@Unlimited_Lives I try to do that when I can. Sometimes it takes an edit to make sure it's below the fold.
Though, the spoil was my prediction on what you might say about the next episode. Though, it is highly possible that it could reveal a plot point of a future episode, which is why I marked it as "possible spoils" (So you are warned.)
I didn't realize you haven't seen all the episodes. I will keep that in mind for future comments.
Technically, I've seen them. It was when they first aired, and my memory of them is utter bobbins. There have been one or two here and there where I remember stuff (Death Wish for example came back to me as soon as I saw Quinn's face) but most are essentially fresh. Re-viewed was meant to be a pun on that.
@@Unlimited_Lives "Re-Viewed", Cleaver!
Thank to the wheel. I will need to find a new name.
I'm always ready to accept more patron names for the wheel. Give me a shout on there if you think of one (or more as a few people have submitted lists).
@@Unlimited_Lives Are there any female names on the wheel? There really ought to be a separate girls's wheel on the off-chance that featured baddie might ever be female. I realise it could be a long wait, but at least it would mean I could look forward to the Borg queen being referred to as Penelope Spugmuffin. Also perhaps an NB wheel. I realise that any alien not obviously female will likely be assumed male, but perhaps it's time to rethink that.
I gave this some thought a little while back. I considered a seperate name wheel depending on who it's for, but decided against it for a few reasons:
- Multiple wheels increase the paperwork by 100% each time.
- Multiple wheels mean fewer entries on each wheel.
- It means making assumptions on gender for species we know nothing about¹.
- Only 3 of the current entries on the wheel (07/06) could be considered overtly male. Most make no mention.
- Trek has a show where the lead woman is called Michael, which rather renders the whole thing moot.
As a result of the above, all names go on the same wheel. That said, I welcome people adding traditionally female names so we have a nice big melting pot. Penelope Spugmuffin the Klingon would be just as valid if the Wheel deemed it so. If you feel this is unreasonable and have a workable solution, I'm open to hearing it. We try to be inclusive here.
¹Yes, I tend to refer to new alien entities as he/him, usually based on the actor portraying them. I realise that's not ideal, but OldTrek tends to make that assumption itself. The Hirogen in the episode 'Hunters' refer to 8472 as "he" (which I overruled and changed to 'they' as that feels particularly egregious²), and Voyager's crew refer to Hirogen as "he" despite no biological data on either. For all we know, both species are non-binary or androgynous (like Morn is suggested to be in DS9 by Odo, despite always being referred to as "he").
²Why did I change 8472 and not the Hirogen? Because we know that many Milky Way species are of common ancestry after being seeded by progenitors, so we can make some (admittedly often wrong) assumptions about them. We can make no such assumption for those who don't bear the humanoid form that is a hallmark of common ancestry from that seed, or are from other galaxies/dimensions/whatever.
@@Unlimited_Lives Thanks for your considered reply. All these points are entirely valid, and I would not wish extra paperwork on anyone. I have now patreonized in order to add to the distinctiveness of the wheel.
The show was a product of its time, when male was considered the default, and it shows through in so many unaddressed assumptions. I used to love TNG when I was younger, but watching now it seems to have acquired a layer of sexism that surely wasn't there all those years ago...
@@Rei-Rei Welcome! Yeah... there are some questionable inclusions and oversights. I took a bit of stick (from a tiny minority it must be added) for calling out Q's behaviour in The Q and the Grey, but it was the right choice. I think it's promising that most can see these things for what they are now though.
Not set to stun 😂😮 will a character be in really danger ??? I think not
I really didn't like this one. It felt to me like the writers just wanted to do Secret Armies with Voyager and everything else is an excuse to set that up, but I didn't buy it at all. I don't get why the Hirogen would be attracted to this scenario, they're not even pretending to hunt in it, it's completely unrelated to their Planet Hat which would normally be fine expect we're told that the entire thing is meant to appeal to said Hat without the downsides it was bringing, and I don't buy why it would at all.
Yeah, it isn't working. Nobody likes Peter Pedantic's ideas.
I always disliked these sort of episodes, such a cheap way of shoehorning in normally inappropriate (for a sci-fi show) stories which end up being reverted with no consequence when the episode is over, making it completely pointless and disposable.
Overall, one of my least favorite 2 Parter. Peter Pedantic makes me smile every time you say it. Interesting analysis
youtube audio library
Yup. A useful selection, and one that's still getting updated.
Because accents are hard….. 😂😂😂
God dog lol.
Aw keep dreaming space dog one day you may be god dog
Can we call a full recap and 30 second opinion, a review...
Probably one of the worst Voyager episodes imo.