I was thinking of making this same comparison video, and you covered this wonderfully! It's such a huge oversight that the Shinobi has RGB waveform and histogram and the Ninja V doesn't... the 5% steps for Zebras really suck, and having LUTs affect the waveform (with no option to disable) is also a real pain.. I brought this to Atomos' attention years ago. I often go for my Shinobi instead of the Ninja V for the longer battery life, when I only need a monitor. I wish the Ninja V could function better as a monitor like the Shinobi.
Yes I'm not sure why they work differently, it does make it confusing if you're using both at the same time! You'd think with all the extra heat and battery usage of the Ninja V it would be as powerful as the Shinobi but maybe they have to limit its functionality to maintain recording throughput. That would also explain the drop in resolution / quality of display with the tools I guess too. I'm not sure if the Ninja+ is the same in this regard, it would be great to try one and compare it.
I noticed the Ninja V False Colour/LUTS issue earlier today - but haven't found anyone talking about it until this video (thank you) - let's hope Atomos sort this in a firmware update!
I am so glad I found this video. I am about to buy my first monitor and I am so glad I learned about the possible LUT/exposure tools situation. Only problem is trying to find out how other monitors handle the same situation. The Shinobi looks great! … but I am also looking at the OSEE T7. (I am wondering if the OSEE T7 works like the Ninja or the Shinobi). Thanks for the warning!
I've not tried that monitor Darrell but either way actually works fine as long as you understand what it's doing. I do prefer to use the LUT as a visual reference and not have it effect the tools though.
Great video! The LUT and zebra limitations you’ve expertly highlighted also makes it impossible to ‘match’ the NinJa V with the screen on a FX3. But the exposure lowering when a LUT is switched on is a serious issue. Atomos really should sort all this out asap if technically possible. Did they ever get back to you? I’d already bought a Ninja for the recording capability but now that I have a FX6 and a FX3 it would be nice to think it’s image/zebras etc can be matched with a Shinobi. But, as you’ve shown, it won’t. Grrrr! The analysis screen would be handy to have on the Ninja too.
@@GeraldBertramPhotography Ha, Yes I was fine taking it apart but then peeling off the thermal pad thingy i was convinced I'd taken some of the tiny capacitors with it and felt a bit sick! I did consider making a video about it but decided I couln't handle the responsibility haha.
@@PaulJoy lol Yeah I took that plunge! Everything in my video on the Lunchbox was me doing it on the first try. That video could have gone very badly but the folks at AndyCine assured me everything would be fine and to their credit it did.
Its fairly easy to work around once you're aware of it, it's just a little frustrating that it works differently to the Shinobi, especially when working with both on a shoot.
I just tested the Port Keys LH5P. It is similar to the Shinobi but with wi-if and a metal case. I found the interface out dated but it was a great monitor with a claimed 1700 nits. In the end, I sent it back. It is hard to give up the touch tracking feature I get with the Monitor+ app and my iPhone. (Sony A7Siii and iPhone 11 pro) The Monitor+ app does have a couple of drawbacks. It needs to be reconnected any time you turn the camera off and there doesn't seem to be a focus zoom feature.
I tried the free Monitor+ App on my FX3 but it cuts off every 10 seconds or so and I have to do the QR code every time to reconnect... Any suggestions ? Looks great but I cannot get it to stay connected...
@@ekphotography I've not tried it yet but could you be in an area that has strong wifi interference? I use the imaging edge app for photography sometimes with my FX3 and while it's generally solid there has been a couple of times that the location really slows it down.
@@PaulJoy Imaging edge is quite bad actually and the reviews for Monitor+ is WAY better apparently. I did not have wifi problems. Just the camera disconnects after a few seconds for some odd reason which makes me hesitant to get the paid version.
Just in from Atomos 04/03/2023: "As Shinobi is our monitor series of devices, we mainly focused on our monitor-recorders, which is why the Ninja V has this difference with the Shinobi... Regarding the exposure value issue, we would like to clarify that the Shinobi is designed to show the exposure value before the LUT is applied, while the Ninja V is designed to show the true exposure value after a LUT is applied. We understand that you want both screens to match, but the difference is due to the device's design. Nevertheless, your requests have been added to our list of feature requests and will be considered for future implementation. However, we are unable to provide you with a time-frame at the moment.
@@PaulJoy So, with regard to using the Ninja V as a monitor to expose correctly, I'm thinking best to use with a LUT applied. In my case, for broadcast, it would be AC's s709 LUT. And if using two cameras, FX6 & a FX3, use two Ninja's, not a Ninja/Shinobi combo.
I've only been using the Ninja V for a few weeks so I might be missing something, let me know if that's the case. I haven't seen anyone else mention the way it handles LUTS as being strange which seems odd as it's been available a long time now.
In summary, Shinobi is better as a monitor, with more tools and quality, but it doesn't record, which is a big difference, because the Ninja V generates recording in ProRes 10bits 422. I had already decided to buy the Ninja V, but seeing this review, I have some doubts. Perhaps the Ninja V+ is a combination of the two. I don't know. My first objective is without a doubt to monitor. Shinobi became the choice after much research within this price range. But after I found out that with Ninja V my Canon M6 MK II records in ProRes 10 Bits via HDMI cable, I decided for it. I got excited. Afterwards, I was a bit put off when I learned that Canon has limited itself to 4K 30fps and 1080p 60fps via HDMI. Hard to understand. In PAL it records at 25fps, which can be an option. In short, if I buy the Ninja V it will most likely be with the idea of using it to record with another camera, because I work at 24fps. And with the M6 MK II use it only as a monitor.
I've not tried the Ninja V+ so I'm not sure about that. If the Canon set the HDMI limit then I guess there's nothing you can do, sorry I do not own that camera so it's hard to help.
Great video Paul. Thanks for all the info. I have the FX6 and would like to get a shinobi. Am just not sure if it should be the 5 er or the 7 er what do you think 🤔 sub from an older german TH-cam filmmaker
Hi there, thanks loads for the sub. I guess it comes down to portability more than anything. The FX6 is a very compact camera and the 7 may not be as practical if your shooting events, doco or just like lots of camera movement. If you're in a studio or the camera lives on sticks then 7 would make things easier to see, especially for those of us with seasoned eyes :)
Hi Paul, for the Shinobi did you have to use a the Calibrite ColorChecker Display before using it or is it useable out the box and that’s just for maintenance of colors after overtime use
Hi Marvine. I only use the checker for grading footage or to set white balance in camera. The Shinobi is pretty good out of the box however it’s not perfect. You can however calibrate it if You have a digital colour checker device.
What if I record 4k@60p videos with my camera? Doesn't the Shinobi output any image at all then? Theoretically, the 60p signal would simply have to be output in 30p. Right?
Hi I’m sort of new to using monitors and I picked up the shinobi but I’m just having issues with the battery side of things ? What type of battery is best for the shinobi and what is the battery pack that came with the shinobi I’m so confused
They use Sony NP-F style batteries, there’s loads of third party options on Amazon and eBay. They range in sizes from something like an NP-F550 up to the the bigger NP-F970 batteries. I’m not sure what you mean by the included battery pack, maybe it’s an adapter for powering the monitor from an external power supply?
I use the rule of 3rds grid on my camera screen and when i use my Shinobi, the grid doesn't show in the monitor screen. Is there any way to make them visible on the external monitor? Thanks
You can send the full display UI out but that will disable it on the camera and make the image very small on the monitor. There’s also some things that don’t show like zebras so I’m not sure if the lines are visible. A better solution is to just use the guides on the Shinobi.
The Shinobi doesn't record at all, only the Ninja will do that. I would imagine the Ninja will work fine but I don't have that camera so can't say for sure.
The Shinobi 7 has HDMI output but then it's a little bigger and a more expensive than the Ninja V. It might be a good choice though and also gives you SDI in case you need it plus has two battery slots. A lot of people recommend the Small HD monitors, I haven't tried one for many years so it would be great to try one of their newer monitors.
didn't understand how the lots working. is the monitor changing the lot will be recorded to the sd card of the camera? lets say i have a lot i install name "bvlgari" on the shinobi now the camera will record the footage with this lot to the sd card on the nikon?
Any LUT on the Shinobi will have no effect on the camera. All a LUT is doing on the Shinobi is changing the way the image looks on screen. As for the camera, I've not used Nikon cameras for video I'm afraid so I'm not sure if they have the ability to burn in or save a lut to the card.
Thinking of buying one of these monitors? Use my affiliate links and I'll love you forever :) Atomos Ninja V - geni.us/EuxLa | Atomos Shinobi - geni.us/AllxdBw
@@AgentBlackCrow I still don’t think I’d buy the Ninja over the Shinobi unless you actually need the recording capability or might need it in the future.
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I was thinking of making this same comparison video, and you covered this wonderfully! It's such a huge oversight that the Shinobi has RGB waveform and histogram and the Ninja V doesn't... the 5% steps for Zebras really suck, and having LUTs affect the waveform (with no option to disable) is also a real pain.. I brought this to Atomos' attention years ago. I often go for my Shinobi instead of the Ninja V for the longer battery life, when I only need a monitor. I wish the Ninja V could function better as a monitor like the Shinobi.
Yes I'm not sure why they work differently, it does make it confusing if you're using both at the same time! You'd think with all the extra heat and battery usage of the Ninja V it would be as powerful as the Shinobi but maybe they have to limit its functionality to maintain recording throughput. That would also explain the drop in resolution / quality of display with the tools I guess too. I'm not sure if the Ninja+ is the same in this regard, it would be great to try one and compare it.
I noticed the Ninja V False Colour/LUTS issue earlier today - but haven't found anyone talking about it until this video (thank you) - let's hope Atomos sort this in a firmware update!
Yes an option to put the tools pre or post lut would be a great addition.
I am so glad I found this video. I am about to buy my first monitor and I am so glad I learned about the possible LUT/exposure tools situation. Only problem is trying to find out how other monitors handle the same situation. The Shinobi looks great!
… but I am also looking at the OSEE T7.
(I am wondering if the OSEE T7 works like the Ninja or the Shinobi).
Thanks for the warning!
I've not tried that monitor Darrell but either way actually works fine as long as you understand what it's doing. I do prefer to use the LUT as a visual reference and not have it effect the tools though.
Great video! The LUT and zebra limitations you’ve expertly highlighted also makes it impossible to ‘match’ the NinJa V with the screen on a FX3.
But the exposure lowering when a LUT is switched on is a serious issue.
Atomos really should sort all this out asap if technically possible. Did they ever get back to you?
I’d already bought a Ninja for the recording capability but now that I have a FX6 and a FX3 it would be nice to think it’s image/zebras etc can be matched with a Shinobi. But, as you’ve shown, it won’t. Grrrr!
The analysis screen would be handy to have on the Ninja too.
Yup, it would be great to see Atomos add an option to run exposure tools pre or post LUT.
Great video. I love seeing another Ninja shooter using the Lunchbox!
Thanks Gerald. Yes, it's working well so far although I have to say I didn't enjoy breaking up a brand new T5 drive!
@@PaulJoy Oh man ..I totally agree. Once I freed the T5 drive from the housing I had this feeling of "What did I just do...."
@@GeraldBertramPhotography Ha, Yes I was fine taking it apart but then peeling off the thermal pad thingy i was convinced I'd taken some of the tiny capacitors with it and felt a bit sick! I did consider making a video about it but decided I couln't handle the responsibility haha.
@@PaulJoy lol Yeah I took that plunge! Everything in my video on the Lunchbox was me doing it on the first try. That video could have gone very badly but the folks at AndyCine assured me everything would be fine and to their credit it did.
Great video Paul as always !
Thanks Denis
The exposure change with the LUT turned on seems like a deal breaker to me. Is the Ninja’s firmware up to date?
Its fairly easy to work around once you're aware of it, it's just a little frustrating that it works differently to the Shinobi, especially when working with both on a shoot.
I just tested the Port Keys LH5P. It is similar to the Shinobi but with wi-if and a metal case. I found the interface out dated but it was a great monitor with a claimed 1700 nits. In the end, I sent it back. It is hard to give up the touch tracking feature I get with the Monitor+ app and my iPhone. (Sony A7Siii and iPhone 11 pro) The Monitor+ app does have a couple of drawbacks. It needs to be reconnected any time you turn the camera off and there doesn't seem to be a focus zoom feature.
Thanks for that, the Monitor+ app sounds interesting, I'll have to check it out.
I tried the free Monitor+ App on my FX3 but it cuts off every 10 seconds or so and I have to do the QR code every time to reconnect... Any suggestions ? Looks great but I cannot get it to stay connected...
@@ekphotography I've not tried it yet but could you be in an area that has strong wifi interference? I use the imaging edge app for photography sometimes with my FX3 and while it's generally solid there has been a couple of times that the location really slows it down.
@@PaulJoy Imaging edge is quite bad actually and the reviews for Monitor+ is WAY better apparently. I did not have wifi problems. Just the camera disconnects after a few seconds for some odd reason which makes me hesitant to get the paid version.
@@ekphotography Yes imaging edge is dreadful as you cant even view exposure on it. I'll have to try Monitor + and see if I see the same problem.
Thank you as a film student with a Sony fx6 I want a bigger monitor! I’m in the research phase.
No problem, glad it helped
Just in from Atomos 04/03/2023: "As Shinobi is our monitor series of devices, we mainly focused on our monitor-recorders, which is why the Ninja V has this difference with the Shinobi...
Regarding the exposure value issue, we would like to clarify that the Shinobi is designed to show the exposure value before the LUT is applied, while the Ninja V is designed to show the true exposure value after a LUT is applied. We understand that you want both screens to match, but the difference is due to the device's design. Nevertheless, your requests have been added to our list of feature requests and will be considered for future implementation.
However, we are unable to provide you with a time-frame at the moment.
Thanks for sharing
@@PaulJoy So, with regard to using the Ninja V as a monitor to expose correctly, I'm thinking best to use with a LUT applied. In my case, for broadcast, it would be AC's s709 LUT. And if using two cameras, FX6 & a FX3, use two Ninja's, not a Ninja/Shinobi combo.
So helpful! Thank you for this!
Glad it helped, thanks for letting me know
Super useful info, thanks so much for sharing! 🤩 Liked 👍🏻 Subscribed ⭐️
It helped me a lot in making decisions Ninja vs Shinobi... (Shinobi!)
Thanks loads for letting me know.
I've only been using the Ninja V for a few weeks so I might be missing something, let me know if that's the case. I haven't seen anyone else mention the way it handles LUTS as being strange which seems odd as it's been available a long time now.
Thank you for sharing this info!
Glad it was useful, thanks for letting me know.
Does the Ninja Flame have the same LUT exposure issues?
I’ve not used the Flame so not sure.
In summary, Shinobi is better as a monitor, with more tools and quality, but it doesn't record, which is a big difference, because the Ninja V generates recording in ProRes 10bits 422. I had already decided to buy the Ninja V, but seeing this review, I have some doubts.
Perhaps the Ninja V+ is a combination of the two. I don't know.
My first objective is without a doubt to monitor. Shinobi became the choice after much research within this price range. But after I found out that with Ninja V my Canon M6 MK II records in ProRes 10 Bits via HDMI cable, I decided for it. I got excited. Afterwards, I was a bit put off when I learned that Canon has limited itself to 4K 30fps and 1080p 60fps via HDMI. Hard to understand. In PAL it records at 25fps, which can be an option.
In short, if I buy the Ninja V it will most likely be with the idea of using it to record with another camera, because I work at 24fps. And with the M6 MK II use it only as a monitor.
I've not tried the Ninja V+ so I'm not sure about that. If the Canon set the HDMI limit then I guess there's nothing you can do, sorry I do not own that camera so it's hard to help.
Great video Paul. Thanks for all the info. I have the FX6 and would like to get a shinobi. Am just not sure if it should be the 5 er or the 7 er what do you think 🤔 sub from an older german TH-cam filmmaker
Hi there, thanks loads for the sub. I guess it comes down to portability more than anything. The FX6 is a very compact camera and the 7 may not be as practical if your shooting events, doco or just like lots of camera movement. If you're in a studio or the camera lives on sticks then 7 would make things easier to see, especially for those of us with seasoned eyes :)
Saying that, I think both are lightweight so I guess it comes down to whether or not you can handle a bit more space being used up on the camera.
@@PaulJoy thanks Paul 🙏🏻
Hi Paul, for the Shinobi did you have to use a the Calibrite ColorChecker Display before using it or is it useable out the box and that’s just for maintenance of colors after overtime use
Hi Marvine. I only use the checker for grading footage or to set white balance
in camera. The Shinobi is pretty good out of the box however it’s not perfect. You can however calibrate it if
You have a digital colour checker device.
My false color doesnt change but the other tools do. Is this an update that happened?
Not sure what you mean?
What if I record 4k@60p videos with my camera? Doesn't the Shinobi output any image at all then?
Theoretically, the 60p signal would simply have to be output in 30p. Right?
Yes it still displays as normal.
th-cam.com/users/shortserTCEAQp_Z4?feature=share
Hi I’m sort of new to using monitors and I picked up the shinobi but I’m just having issues with the battery side of things ? What type of battery is best for the shinobi and what is the battery pack that came with the shinobi I’m so confused
They use Sony NP-F style batteries, there’s loads of third party options on Amazon and eBay. They range in sizes from something like an NP-F550 up to the the bigger NP-F970 batteries.
I’m not sure what you mean by the included battery pack, maybe it’s an adapter for powering the monitor from an external power supply?
Although the Ninja runs hotter than the Shinobi, I just got a Shinobi, do you find that Shinobi still runs hot? Mine heats up pretty good. Thanks!
Yes it can still get warm, especially if you have the brightness up high.
@@PaulJoy Okay thanks! Didn’t know if mine was defective or something. Appreciate the response.
Does the Shinobu give you the ability to use the tap touch screen focus options as on the fx3 screen?
Any camera control options?
Thx
No, it just displays the HDMI signal from the camera. That would be a cool feature though!
I use the rule of 3rds grid on my camera screen and when i use my Shinobi, the grid doesn't show in the monitor screen. Is there any way to make them visible on the external monitor? Thanks
You can send the full display UI out but that will disable it on the camera and make the image very small on the monitor. There’s also some things that don’t show like zebras so I’m not sure if the lines are visible.
A better solution is to just use the guides on the Shinobi.
Dear Sir
Shinobi could i use with Nikon Z6ii to record footage N-Log? Thank you
The Shinobi doesn't record at all, only the Ninja will do that. I would imagine the Ninja will work fine but I don't have that camera so can't say for sure.
I would need a SHINOBI but with HDMI output. Is there a model? Thanks!
The Shinobi 7 has HDMI output but then it's a little bigger and a more expensive than the Ninja V. It might be a good choice though and also gives you SDI in case you need it plus has two battery slots. A lot of people recommend the Small HD monitors, I haven't tried one for many years so it would be great to try one of their newer monitors.
If I'm filming 10-bit, 4k, 50fps on my Sony FX30, will I be able to view what I'm recording on the Shinobi monitor?
Yes you can.
@@PaulJoy I own a Sony A7IV and was wondering if I can view what I am recording at 4K 50/60p and at 1080p 50/60/100/120p with the Shinobi?
didn't understand how the lots working. is the monitor changing the lot will be recorded to the sd card of the camera? lets say i have a lot i install name "bvlgari" on the shinobi now the camera will record the footage with this lot to the sd card on the nikon?
Any LUT on the Shinobi will have no effect on the camera. All a LUT is doing on the Shinobi is changing the way the image looks on screen. As for the camera, I've not used Nikon cameras for video I'm afraid so I'm not sure if they have the ability to burn in or save a lut to the card.
Hi, can you tell me if atomos shinobi 5" works fine with canon eos m5 and m6. Thanks alot 🙂
I don’t have those cameras I’m afraid
Does Atomos Shinobi record 10bit?
The Shinobi doesn't record at all, you'll need the ninja for that.
Thinking of buying one of these monitors? Use my affiliate links and I'll love you forever :)
Atomos Ninja V - geni.us/EuxLa | Atomos Shinobi - geni.us/AllxdBw
Some great deals on Ninja V at the moment, only $399!... geni.us/EuxLa
Does that change things somewhat in Ninjas favour? Or even V+?
@@AgentBlackCrow I still don’t think I’d buy the Ninja over the Shinobi unless you actually need the recording capability or might need it in the future.
@@PaulJoy thanks Paul, great channel, binge watching today.