@@thorskywalker I felt like Rian misinterpreted "fixing the Jedi Order", or he simply discredited Luke's victory against the Empire and the truth about the Force he's discovered to give that credit to Rey and/or Kylo, but first Kylo needs to balance his swoleness 😂😂😂
I am not happy that Episode 9 takes place about a year after Last Jedi, mainly because to me that means Luke is actually dead and we are now left with not a single main character from the original trilogy, I can't think of what Lando would do, Chewie has been a background character same with the 2 droids, and Carrie Fisher is dead so they can't do that much with Leia. I'm sorry to ruin this discussion with a comment about the Last Jedi.
They can still expand on it, but it will be very hard to do it in a single movie. I've said from the start I don't really have any issue with any of the events in TLJ it is just how it was executed. Also we still haven't had any real character development for Rey, who is she what are her goals etc.. it basicly feels she just does X because plot not because of any motivations she might have. Can sort of make the same argument for Kylo but he is the villain so that can be filled out in expanded material, Finn gets development in TLJ but sadly his arc well not being a bad arc is the weakest part of the film because well canto bite.... but really that sums up TLJ nothing that happens in the movie matters it all leads into nothing we are basicly at the same place we left TFA just no more Snoke or Luke.
Qui Gon in my opinion is what a Jedi should be. Give in emotions, put the life of innocents over The Jedi and because of that he my favorite Jedi in the Prequals.
@Bill The Bull Gates Jedi aren't peacekeepers of the galaxy, their job is to follow the way of the force, one decision for or against doing something could radically change events so the Jedi follow where the force guides them, because one action no matter how big or small could unbalance the force and they are arbiters of the balance.
@Bill The Bull Gates Most jedi of the time stopped simply following the Way of the Force and started acting more actively in the universe allowing the republic to control their actions when they should've trusted in the force, I don't believe Qui-Gon was wrong for rescuing Anakin, Anakin simply required the kind of teaching only Qui-Gon could offer at the time. I found that the reason Yoda seems so wise in the Original Trilogy was because he made mistakes, ones he recognized later and thats what allowed him to teach Luke not to believe Jedi are infallible and that even the greatest master can fail, purposely or not.
I hope they have Ron Howard direct it and I hope the Ditzney idiots stay far away. Get one of the quality writers to write the script, one who is a real fan.
If Qui-Gon hadn't died, Anakin wouldn't have fallen to the dark side. He would have actually talked to Anakin about his feelings and helped him work things out. Kenobi failed in this regard because he was too perfect of a jedi in the current dogmatic Jedi Order. If you compare prequels Yoda and Kenobi to original trilogy versions of themselves, you can see that in their 17 year banishment, they both became more like Qui-Gon. Learning the errors of their and the Jedi Order's ways.
Great comment, thanks for posting. I totally agree. I think this point isn't talked about enough. Qui-Gon had it right all along, not the Jedi Order's Orthodoxy before the rise of Palpatine. Indeed, had the Jedi Order - or at least the Jedi Council - remained faithful to the true way of the Jedi as embodied by Qui-Gon, Palpatine would never have been able to so completely execute the coup against the Jedi.
@@brianmessemer2973 Yep. They should never have latched themselves to the government of the republic and gotten so entangled in the political maneuverings. Have a council and a school headquarters, but then have the larger part of the order be a bunch of roaming monks, who study the force and do good deeds along the way in their travels. Like wandering samurai movies that inspired Lucas in the first place.
@@derekrichardson7853 I think the Jedi's biggest mistake was that whilst they believed they were keeping the Chosen One out of the hands of the Sith, they actually ended up gift wrapping him and handing him over willingly by fostering and encouraging Anakin's relationship to Palpatine from childhood. They did so because they thought it might be politically useful to them. In a sense, Palpatine allowed the Jedi to destroy themselves through their own political involvement, and just groomed the Chosen One under their noses. Even with their blessing.
KENOBI failed because he wasn't ready to be a mentor. There's a way to talk to people who learn from you and there's a way NOT to talk to them. That's why his lines towards Anakin in Attack of the Clones should make your skin crawl...and that's what Lucas got right.... Kenobi was overbearing. At first I didn't like that, but as I get older, I get it. It's hard to be a teacher.
I hadn't heard of the comic, but I will definitely pick it up. To me Qui-Gon meditating in the middle of the fight with Maul is one of my favorite moments in the prequels. The contrast between Qui-gons meditation, and Mauls agressive pacing shows the difference between light and dark perfectly!
Honestly these authors are the people who should be writing story outlines and plotting the creative direction for the movies. Only then hand it over to the movie directors to execute the vision. You can't replace George Lucas with Hollywood industry movie directors when it comes to writing stories, they are not creative in the way that George or JK Rowling etc are. But some of these authors are creative when it comes to fantasy, mythology, sci fi. Allow them to write stories and then allow directors to direct movies. Guys like JJ and Rian will make good movies if you give them a story, but they cannot come up with story. They never should have been given that responsibility, I think that is Kathleen Kennedy's biggest mistake. She didn't understand that Star Wars at it's core is mythological story telling.
The comics, novels, and animatdd shows are the only things holding Star Wars together right now. We can only hope future movies and live action TV shows can bring back Star Wars to what it was.
@@proevoisace7 yep, the fault lies with Disney for thinking that movie directors are capable of coming up with good Star Wars stories on the fly. Let authors write stories and then let directors make the movies please. Look at what they have come up with so far. Luke has failed to pass on what he learned so he has not done what Yoda asked of him in ROTJ, he failed to rebuild the Jedi order. The new Jedi order was destroyed again by one boy who turned. So Kylo replaces Anakin in the plot. Snoke is a drop in replacement of Palpatine. Starkiller base replaces deathstar. BB8 replaces R2 as droid on the run with secret data. First order replaces the empire. Luke's character arc is forgotten, this is the guy who once said 'I am a jedi, like my father before me'. So creatively bankrupt. The star wars universe mythos has a whole galaxy of possibilities for new Wars and social and political strife and they came up with this. For Disney it's either 'copy plot' or 'let the past die, kill it if you have to'. They can't come up with new adventures without either copying or destroying the past.
@@Arjun-eb1yc you're right of course, the comics more than anything show what the sequels could have been. I was listening to a podcast the other day and it asked if there was one thing you could change about TLJ what would it be and obviously im nowhere near the creative minds they could get but see what you think... I'd have a whole new plot but assuming we can't do that i'd have the reason Luke tried to kill kylo differently. I'd have made Luke have a daughter who was force sensitive but she was killed by Snoke along with Luke's jedi order, however Snoke would manipulate the situation to make it look like Kylo Ren was the murderer, Luke would have a reason even briefly to think about killing Ben, he would be distraught at losing his daughter and padawans and would be a believable reason for him to be on that damn island. I thought about that question for only a few minutes but what I came up with I think would have resonated so much more, it baffles the mind Rian Johnson had years to come up with something and thats what we got
@@proevoisace7 yep that actually makes it more personal for Luke and it's a better justification. Nothing like losing a child. What Rian did was basically write a new character about a Jedi who wants to die and he tried to pass him off as Luke Skywalker.
Thor sometimes I feel like you’re the only star wars you tuber who gets the whole balance in the force thing. Star Wars explained recently did a video on this same comic book and some how seem to get the whole balance between the light and dark thing out of it.
Well, in the movies Yoda was very clear that once you dabble in the dark side "forever will it dominate your destiny". Maybe it's like an addiction, you can quit but you're never really free. Even if you go for years clean you need to work at it and prepare for when that sudden craving gets you at the worst moment. "Gray" is kind of like denial, or just a little bit thinking.
@@thatblondboy007 Not just SWE but Generation Tech has also perpetuated this misconception as well. I've gone to great lengths to correct his videos on the topic and hopefully get his attention.
@@thatblondboy007 that's cuz of Rian Johnson, he followed some little TH-cam theories that the Force was in imbalance cuz there were more Jedi than Sith and that both sides need to be used equally and then he ignored all of George Lucas explanation about the chosen one and made it a reason to make Rey OP
When you realize no matter how you react, you won't change anything. You won't make people suddenly change their minds. The only required response is, "that's an interesting way to think about it". By simply realizing it doesn't resonate with you allows you to let it go and move on. Life is so much better when you don't try to change what's happening around you, but what's happening inside you is the very beginning of your inner peace.
Love this comic, love Qui Gon Jinn and I thank Liam Neeson for playing this character. He is my favorite character from the Phantom Menace and the whole prequel trilogy, he's a true Jedi.
In The Phantom Menace when Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan first come aboard the Trade Federation flagship, Obi-Wan tells Qui-Gon that he senses something elusive. The thing that Obi-Wan senses later reveals itself to be a Sith presence. Yoda had previously told Obi-Wan to be mindful of the force. Qui-Gon tells Obi-Wan not to sacrifice knowing what was going on at the moment for seeing the bigger picture of the force. Qui-Gon believed that to be balanced in the force meant being centered within the moment. Qui-Gon believed that centering yourself required listening to what the force was telling you. This is why Qui-Gon did not follow every edict of the Jedi code. Qui-Gon saw the Jedi code as a guidebook and the force as the guide while the Jedi council saw the Jedi code as a guide and the force as merely an instrument. One of the reasons why the Jedi could not sense the presence of Darth Sidious is because they had fallen out of tune with what the force was telling them. Qui-Gon believed that the Jedi had fallen out of tune with what the force was telling them by being overly strict in their adherence to the Jedi code. Obi-Wan told Qui-Gon that if he followed the Jedi code to the letter he would be on the council. To this Qui-Gon replied that Obi-Wan still had much to learn about the force. During his fight with Darth Maul, Qui-Gon centered himself so that hate would not consume him. Qui-Gon believed that being balanced in the force meant being at peace with yourself and the outside world. The Sith knew that one of the weaknesses of the Jedi was an unbridled hatred. The Sith knew that they could exploit this weakness to prevent the Jedi from being balanced in the force. Qui-Gon died at the hand of Darth Maul because through his communion with the force he sensed that it was his destiny.
Thor Skywalker, you're my favorite Star Wars TH-camr! Very articulate and non confrontational approach to your videos and opinions FUN TO WATCH and,,, I almost always agree 😁
Thank you, I finally understand Qui-Gon. I had always assumed he just didn't want to obey the other masters. Now, after your video, I have so much more understanding.
hopefully IX is a great movie and we can start to move on from TLJ for reals after that, even now more then a year since I seen it the first time whenever I think of Star Wars it is the first thing that comes to my mind, was just that damaging.
Actually hope they make an Obi Wan film and have Qui Gon as a force Ghost, I am sure Liam Neeson will be up for it, definitely one of the best characters from the prequels, see people forget all the awesome stuff that came out of the prequels, while TLJ had nothing that will last and be remembered
@@blacklivesorblackvotes2985 Yeah... the MCU is sort of wandering without a clear goal or arc right now. If it focused on Kang the Conqueror, I think they would be golden, but they're also focusing on the Skrulls and trying to get the X-Men into the MCU...
This is why Qui Gon has always been my favorite of the Jedi. Right there with Luke and Reven. He was the first, in canon, that truly was a servant of the force, and achieved what Palpatine had promised Anikan.
The notion of the "Grey" side really took off during the "dark and edgy" 90s, and popped up in the novels of that time a lot. The real question is, WHY does that concept appeal to the fandom so much? I think it appeals to many because it seems to reject Extremism, which, in real life, leads to imbalance. I think most people intuitively sense that a moderate approach to things, where many extremes meet in the middle, hopefully allowing one to take the best of each and leave the worst behind, is a productive way of life, in philosophy, politics, whatever. So, it's a little jarring to them to get that that's NOT how it works in SW...just my thought.
The Grey Jedi: We'll come together and vote, based on freedom of choice. We'll then take the freedom of choice away and the majority rules in moderation of the extremes. The True Jedi: I'll do what I must to ensure what the Force wills, even if it is to go to extremes to protect what I am guided to do.
I think some of it may have came from games like Jedi Academy that let you use both light side skills and dark skills like force lightning and force choke without going dark. Then ar one point you can choose the light or dark path and still use all the skills. It was rather fun occasionally force choking an annoying mouthy dark jedi, turning and dropping him over the edge of a walkway to splat. 😁 But I always had my doubts about the "good"ness of some of that, like watching Obi Wan mindfuck some poor draftee, "these are not the droids you are looking for. Now drop your pants and do the chicken dance while chanting 'Vader gives great helmet'" poor schmuck will be in therapy for years!
I think the biggest problem is, once you step into Fantasy, you step out of real world Logic. It doesn't matter as long as they give us a good story with some consistency, and some view the consistency as... broken. I'm not sure how else to articulate that. I feel like there's something to add, but that'll have to be good enough for tonight. I need to get ready for work.
Very good points HoO. Although I admit to being interested in the whole 'Grey Jedi' fad, which I'm pretty sure was in the 90's like you said, I consider it to be more due to laziness, both in the character and the writer. Being a Jedi or Sith requires a great deal of study and training in that specific lore. Not worrying about writing any of that into a story can save a bunch of time, which also makes the character seemingly more relatable. And as Dale touched on, worrying about real world logic in a science-fantasy genre it doesn't really work. It just makes the characters more bland IMHO.
Qui-Gon Jinn should have been the Grand Master of the Jedi Order during the time of troubles with the return of the Sith. Far better and would have made sure Anakin was properly trained.
He had more of a father-son relationship with Anakin, while Obi-Wan was more like an elder brother acting as a parent. This in my opinion caused Anakin to be this rebellious towards his master.
Um, the whole premise is stupid. Why bring balance to something already in the majority. Why 'want' darkness? Qui-gon is one of the most stupid Jedi to ever live and his actions brought nothing but shame on his name.
I don't think its that he would have trained Anakin better, but that he might have seen through Palpatine more quickly, and not allowed him to foster a close relationship with Anakin from childhood, which the Jedi Council did, and by doing so groom a vulnerable child under their noses. They basically gift wrapped The Chosen One and handed him over the Sith like a Christmas present.
still happy to see someone share my view of Qui Gon after 15 years of being the only one I knew who considered him the most jedilike Jedi in the whole movies. Liam Neeson gave such an iconic performance in that movie its one of the few redeeming features of The Phantom Manace. Thats also why I dont understand why some original trilogy hardcore fans hate on the Prequels, claiming they where utter crap. Sure, they where flawed in some ways (Jar-Jar; Mediclorians *coughcough*); Lucas also showed us what a true Jedi should sound, act and look like. Surely, later Luke and Yoda showed that wisdom, but in everything Qui Gon did, from the way he talked to Anakin, his mother, the council, Obi-Wan and anyone else you could just feel his inner balance oozing from him in all he said and did. He was determined, fearless, kind and not attached to anything to a point where (fear of) loss would tempt him to be selfish. He listened to the will of the force, and when faced with being called to throw his own well-being to defend others there was no hesitation, but also no anger or doubt. Or hate. He did what was needed, no matter the personal cost it would take from him.
"Keep your concentration here and now, where it belongs." "Concentrate on the moment. Feel, don't think. Use your instincts." "Your focus determines your reality."
Now, Once I got an alert that you uploaded another video, I immediately knew it was going to be "How star wars sucks now" "Who are rey's parents" or "why star wars is dying" Surprised (pleasantly) that we get some original good, and more though provoking content that doesn't involve any dead horses by beating!
Oui Gon Jinn is the greats jedi to ever exist. To be temped by the dark side multiple times, and still stay a Jedi is a feat that many Jedi feld to do. If Qui Gon managed to get through to Anikan while he killed the Sand People, he never would've been temped to the dark side. Qui Gon continued to call at to Anikan through out the clone wars and through out his temptations to the dark side. But Anikan under truly understood that Qui Gon is calling to him through the force. Which lead to his fall and become vader. Sounds dumb to say, but he died vs Maul cause he chose too. To join the living force, to hopefully one day guide the jedi to true understanding. This also ties into Return of the Jedi. When Yota talks to Luke, saying books dont make a jedi. Only truly trusting the force makes a Jedi.
@@Narutofan825 all become the force, but all cant retain themselves, some jedi and a few sith retained themselves through the force. Force ghost or even rebirth, all is possible if you retain yourself in the force
Gray Jedi come from the stigma of the teachings of the Jedi Order. Jedi that use, or adhere to, strictly Sith abilities or doctrine have to be categorized separately by both being able to cross that line & choosing to. As we know now a TRUE Jedi is one that straddles the lines between them & uses the teachings of both to carry out the will of the force. Qui-Gon Jinn was a great example of what an actual Jedi should be. The only thing gray about him was what we called him before we knew the true nature of the force & maybe his hair lol
Thank you for this. Qui-Gon has always been one of my top favorite characters, and it's a shame we didn't get more of him in the films. His death was, unfortunately, necessary. I'm glad this comic exists, and it might've made good material for a nice 90 minute movie. Nevertheless, I don't trust the current management at Lucasfilm to execute it well.
I haven't read this comic but ever since watching episode one, I always felt qui gon was and is what jedi should be. Not a follower of the republic, but a follower of the Force itself. I'm glad to see that he is finally getting some focus, he is such an enigmatic character in star wars lore. I fully believe that had he survived past the battle of Naboo and trained Anakin, Anakin would have never fallen to the dark side
5:50 I've always hated the dark and light side labels. One side revolves around serenity, the other around passion. Both can lead to ruin if taken to their extremes. I've always looked at the idea of a gray jedi as someone which has come to understand that and walk the line between - not becoming too disconnected from the world and ultimately the force in their serenity, but also realizing the danger of becoming lost in dark passions like hatred and anger and instead letting compassion and love drive their use of the force when appropriate.
4:28 This bit here reminds me of the way Luke defeated the Emperor, he was trying to use empathy to make Vader change, seeing him as a broken man rather than a monster. There are some interesting discussions (that aren't pro war exactly) about Lord of the Rings and how the way they handle war is good. Bc it acknowledges that you should use war to protect, or to do what is necessary, but it never glorifies it. In TPM, it looks as though Qui Gon is not afraid to bring the fight to them if it means helping people. Which is basically how I view the Jedi's involvement in CW, they wanted to do what was right, and likely were, but they were also playing into Palpatine's hand which I think is a symbol that we are good not bcoz we win but bcoz of our choices.
I find it hard to believe in the Jedi when the only successes we are shown are when the protagonists ignore the Light Side. Qui Gon stops to meditate and center himself in the fight with Mail, and dies. Obi Wan only wins once he attacks with angry fervor. Yoda tells Luke he needs to stay on Dagobah or all will be lost. Instead Luke gives in to fear, runs off, and winds up saving his friends - the only reason the Rebels win against the Empire later. Similarly to the first example, Luke gets his butt kicked by Vader/Palpatine until he truly let's loose and gets pissed, then he is victorious, and manages to not only defeat Vader but TURN HIM AWAY FROM THE SITH...all because of anger and hate.
Love all your vids and the point of views you present for food for thought. Though I admit in this video I had to comment on your point of view about the perception of the dark side. The one exception to your belief about the boundaries of such is Mace Windu and his ability to use the seventh form and vaapad which taps into the dark side...
Yes, I have thought the same as you. I have not read this comic, or any of them, but Qui Gon is from before the "clouding" of the force by Palpatine as discussed in TPM (a movie many still reject) but before the Dark Side fouled in the Senate and the force (something that took the Jedi Council by surprise as apparent from dialogue the Sith were thought wiped out) Before Palpatine sprang into their midst the Sith spent generations perfecting trickery to cover and hide so he could stand right among them. Apparently, before that masters could detect force users from long distances and in visions. They would know about sensitives long before they used their "wild talents", or were exploited for them. And I also agree about Qui Gon's behavior. He followed the will of the Force, not the will of the Senate. The politicians didn't like that, as we saw in some of the New Republic books where Luke took his new jedi academy off Coruscant and there was still a lot of government complaints about them not knuckling under to local authority. Also, the fight with Maul showed Qui Gon was not a "warrior" (only) as Maul was more agressive and ruthless. Qui Gon was more of an inspector-diplomat. He could fight, but it was not his first job. The Jedi were not, after all, a Christian organization and should not be judged in that context. It seems the philosophy was more of a ambassador between societies. Bringing order through understanding. That's why they didn't just kill the slave keeper Watto and free little Anakin and his mother. In my opinion they didn't grant themselves the right to judge. (Plus it would have made for a much shorter movie...🤑)
Qui-Gon is one of my all time favorite Star Wars characters. When strugling with the fact that I didn't really liked Episode I (Or that there's is a lot I dont't like in the movie) , I've always think of Qui-Gon, and the the movie become more palatable for me...
Another excellent and insightful vid. I'm seeing a slight contradiction though when it comes to Windu's use of Vapaad which according to canon, allows himself to enjoy the fight and also treads dangerously close to the darkside. Perhaps a video to help explain that if not already done so.
Qui-Gon is by far my fav character in the franchise, i hope he has a cameo in IX. There was a really good article about him on starwars.com not too long ago; www.starwars.com/news/my-favorite-scene-qui-gon-waits The only thing i would want to add to the article is Qui-Gon's line to Anakin earlier in the film: "Without the midi-chlorians, life could not exist...and we would have no knowledge of the Force. They continually speak to us... telling us the will of the Force. When you learn to quiet your mind... you'll hear them speaking to you." When he's sat down with his eyes shut, this is exactly what he's doing.
Qui Gon is the paragon Anakin was denied. The Mr. Miyagi he needed, one with the courage to disobey because he needed to, not because he wanted to, like Anakin ended up doing.
I liked the comic but it felt very very short. I’m glad I bought it though. Anything that explores the decades before The Phantom Menace peak my interest. I hope they continue to come out with content that takes place before TPM and also between TPM and AOTC.
The Prequels were great for many reasons, despite their giant flaws. The character of Qui-Gon is one of those great reasons. He's the best character of the prequels, and that's saying something, considering how great Palpatine, Obi-Wan, and Mace are. I remember shortly after TPM was released, I was on a Star Wars discussion board (which no longer exists), and wrote a long tribute to Qui-Gon, stating how he was the greatest of all the Jedi order at that time. I wish I still had that saved somewhere. Oh well. It is remembered in the aether.
I love how restrained Qui Gon is until he’s face to face with a Sith, then he doesn’t hold back; however he’s still outmatched by Maul and is put on the defensive twice. It makes me truly wonder how Qui Gon would’ve fit in during the Clone Wars had he survived, as the Jedi easily step in as keepers of peace leading convenient clones against the droids (their biggest threat until the reveal of the Sith) and don’t hold back. Qui Gon is a true Jedi, Obi Wan learned his lesson on Tatooine, and Yoda during his duel with Sidious…
You have great points, but could you elaborate on why you appear to think the dark side is something that must always be kept in check, and not ever used to bring balance. To my understanding, the dark side has many “good” things to offer. For instance: ambition, passion, and strength are all traits associated with the dark side, but one could argue they are essential in order to be well balanced. You wouldn’t want a Jedi to be complacent, apathetic or weak. To my understanding, the essence of a grey Jedi is balance which is exactly what Qui gon seems to be.
Had Qui-Gon Jinn lived and killed Darth Maul alongside Obi-Wan Kenobi during the duel on Naboo if the latter hadn't been knocked out by him there would have been a lot of changes for the Skywalker Saga: 1. Anakin Skywalker would become Qui-Gon Jinn's new apprentice and Obi-Wan Kenobi would be assigned to Count Dooku given his history with the former as his master. 2. Darth Maul would be as mentioned before dead thus he wouldn't come back with mechanical legs and wreak on the galaxy even going so far as to kill Duchess Satine Kryze and Pre Viszla respectively as well as take over Mandalore briefly. 3. Count Dooku would have never left the Jedi Order/Jedi Council and the Galactic Republic by defecting to the Confederacy of Independent Systems (CIS). 4. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious would have never had Count Dooku as an apprentice instead he would have to find another one and seeing how he knows the Nightbrothers/Nightsisters of Dathomir really well given his history with Darth Maul he would choose Asajj Ventress as his new apprentice. 5. Savage Oppress would be even more angry at the Jedi Order/Galactic Republic for killing his brother Darth Maul he would likely join the Confederacy of Independent Systems (CIS) trained as a Sith assassin under Asajj Ventress and Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious. 6. Anakin Skywalker would become a Jedi Knight like he did in the main timeline. 7. As for Shmi Skywalker, she would have either lived or died depending on how things go. 8. The Confederacy of Independent Systems (CIS) would have a completely different leader possibly Asajj Ventress since she would be a fully trained apprentice under Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious and thus become a figurehead leader. 9. Ahsoka Tano would still become Anakin Skywalker's apprentice and alongside Qui Gon Jinn, and Obi-Wan Kenobi fight in the Clone Wars on the side of the Galactic Republic against the Confederacy of Independent Systems (CIS). 10. Given that Anakin Skywalker was very close to Qui Gon-Jinn he would have very much talked to him about his feelings and love for Padme Amidala something he might object to but try to help him out a lot. Qui Gon Jinn would have also countered any and all attempts of Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious trying to influence Anakin Skywalker given his teachings. Flash forward to Revenge of the Sith and Order 66 might not even occur whatsoever with him to help his former apprentice who wouldn't have killed Mace Windu and instead Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious would have probably died or gone into hiding. 11. Padme Amidala would be alive and well complete with giving a healthy birth to both Luke Skywalker and Leia Skywalker after the Clone Wars for Anakin Skywalker. Although the Jedi Order/Galactic Republic were not fans of marriage and love given that Luke Skywalker and Leia Skywalker were more or less likely to be strong in the Force they wouldn't refuse training and instead allow them in as new recruits/Padawans/Knights.
This gray nonsense... very millennial. Yoda told everyone, do or do not, there is no try. There is no in between, you are a Jedi or you are a Sith, you are a good person or you are not. Fan fiction nonsense.
Star Wars comic books? Who knew? You taught me why I identify more with Qui Gon than I do other Jedi. I hate rigidity. Not all rules make sense and if I think my way is better, I follow it. My only real disappointment in Qui Gon was his agility. It would have been nice if he had been able to hang better with Darth Maul. Just thought of something-Qui Gon Jinn was very much like Kwai Chang Caine, though more impulsive and less balanced.Even though I was a girl, I wanted to grow up to be Kwai Chang Caine. Live Long and Prosper.
Wait does Grey Jedi only mean a Jedi who draws on both the powers of Light and Dark in combat? I thought Grey Jedi could have two definitions with that being one of them and the other being a Jedi who simply disagrees with the core ethos of the Jedi Council. That is why I considered, for example, Jolee Bindo to be a "Grey Jedi" and Qui-Gon is in that same camp. Both are clearly exclusively on the Light side but their alienation from the council because of the rigidity and ethos of it was what made them "Grey" to me. I definitely agree with your core point though that the idea a Jedi can balance light and dark can last only temporarily at best. Hell, Mace Windu and his Vapaad style was evidence of this if you ask me.
Is using the dark side to do good possible or inherently contradictory, and isn't the dark side necessary to maintain balance in the first place, or am I completely wrong and an idiot for asking?
I'm glad that u touched on "grey jedi" I've seen many references to this on You tube but though I've read every single novel in SW universe the only time I've seen that referenced is in the Coruscant nights trilogy and it only refers to a jedi who uses other weapons besides the lightsaber and is not part of the order itself. So where is everyone getting this half dark half light stuff?
If a Kenobi movie were to still happen I would have loved to have seen scenes of obi wan training with a force ghost qui gon (Liam Neeson preferably) while spending his time watching over Luke on tatooine.
Qui-Gon was the wisest Jedi of his time. I think that is why I like him and Ahsoka so much. They are wise and they are prescient, and they act on it and behave according to it instead of just taking the easier path. If only Obi-Wan had listened to his master.
Oh, so that's why TCW'08 is the greatest Star Wars ever. It continues to retell things that were said long before it, but in such a way that people think these are TCW's original genius ideas.
Another great video Thor! Was he truly the only Jedi following the correct path? How many others that were not on the council believed his way was best? Qui-gon couldn't have been the only one.
@@thorskywalker I would also just like to wish you and your better half a very Merry Christmas and may GOD bless you and your family. Entertainment through song, written word, and visuals is a form of healing. If you do something that others enjoy, it makes them happy, which in turn helps them to heal. Thankyou for being a part of my team.
Thor, given the news that John Williams is retiring from scoring Star Wars, how about a video/poll about who should succeed him? Personally, I think Michael Giacchino has it on lock, but maybe someone else would be even better (NOT Hans Zimmer, thank you very much!^^)?
Great idea for a poll and question of the week. I've always maintained that Williams' score is one of the many things that separated Star Wars from anything else that had ever been done. He will be near impossible to replace.
As an aspiring film composer, and per my earlier comment on this video, if a good Qui-Gon film ever does get made, I really want to score that! Someone else can do everything else (preferably someone who loves Star Wars and Williams's music!)
You know what this means? That if Qui-Gon Jinn hadn't been killed by Darth Maul, he would have trained at Anakin to heed the will of the force. Meaning when Anakin hooked up with Padme, Qui-Gon Jinn might have covered for Anakin believing it to be the will of the force as love as a form of compassion which is part of the light side.
Excellent review and I have always liked Qui-Gon's character. Balance goes both ways tho. With the Jedi being a light- side Force user only and there being so many. The balance was the rise of Palpatine and his apprentice to counter the light. There can be no light without darkness. Conversely Ep 4-6 dealt with the opposite, the light rising to counter the dark. The Jedi cannot exist without Sith. My theory is that Rey will be that conduit between both dark and light. The first Grey to finally bring balance.
I really enjoy the things you post about Qui-gon. I never really understood his character and can admit that I fell into the camp of Grey Jedi advocates. But i agree with you now. Grey Jedi seem kind of stupid. I think the Sith would agree and just try to exploit them.
First, what do you do with Mace Windu? Second, Yoda would never believe that the republic knows more than the force, although it is possible that he would be arrogant and think he knows more about the force..., etc. (Which is possibly what Sidious spoke to prior to their encounter.) I would be interested, now that it's been 2 years, in your thoughts post "Master and Apprentice". Good vid, thanks. I will get the comic now.
2:30 Fighting fire with fire is often successful, and sometimes fighting darkness with darkness is also successful. Both create more damage. Fighting fire with prevention causes no damage, but also stifles change. Fighting darkness with compassion causes no damage, but also stifles the lessons that can be learned from it. When you cross the line of extinguishing light for darkness is the extreme the natural man would most likely fall easily into. That's when things become "unnatural". Death, fear and decay become the building blocks by coercion, not by nature. Hate and pain become the driving Balance is knowing when and how the darkness can effect everything. It's remaining unconditional about the outcome. Stepping into fear or anxiety, or even death and embracing the outcome as what is to be. Much like a forest fire destroys what's in its path, it also creates new life, leaving some parts of the forest untouched, speeding decay to a point where it can create new life and population control so life doesn't choke itself out. How Jedi become a Force Ghost - stepping into death without fear of being lost - holding fast to the Living Force - holding on to power, instead of becoming part of the Force itself, which is still unnatural... Qui Gon let go of the Living Force and moved on, eternal in the Force. I consider or anticipate that he is the male incarnate of the daughter, and Rey is incarnate of him. Rey is the Last Jedi. A True Jedi.
The force is a see-saw, and qui-gon identified the intense weight on one side imposed by the jedi leading to an intense counterweight by the sith. The jedi all sat there with their overzealous arms folded on their seat and ultimately what happened happened.
The thing that popped into my head as I was watching this was something Jesus said "Satan cannot cast out satan, for a house divided against itself will not stand"
@Thor Skywalker it seams that Qui Gon is more in tune with the force and even achieves more than Yoda becoming one with the force. Do you think this diminishes Yoda's legacy as the most powerful Jedi?
I wish Ep1 had started with Anakin and Obi-Wan at the ages they were in Ep2, and skipped most of the plot of Ep1, except Darth Maul and Qui-Gon, and they both had lasted longer... maybe Qui-Gon could’ve filled the Mace Windu role, but in a more Qui-Gonny way?
@@englishlady9797 - yea, but wouldn’t an anti-war Jedi forced into leading an army have been interesting? Qui-Gon was probably the most complex character in any Star Wars movie, but it was all very subtle and he only lasted one movie... he deserved more time on screen.
I really wanted Luke to be like Qui-Gon during TLJ cuz in episode 6 Luke realized the truth Qui-Gon had discovered, they didn't expand on it
That was my hope as well...
@@thorskywalker I felt like Rian misinterpreted "fixing the Jedi Order", or he simply discredited Luke's victory against the Empire and the truth about the Force he's discovered to give that credit to Rey and/or Kylo, but first Kylo needs to balance his swoleness 😂😂😂
I am not happy that Episode 9 takes place about a year after Last Jedi, mainly because to me that means Luke is actually dead and we are now left with not a single main character from the original trilogy, I can't think of what Lando would do, Chewie has been a background character same with the 2 droids, and Carrie Fisher is dead so they can't do that much with Leia. I'm sorry to ruin this discussion with a comment about the Last Jedi.
They can still expand on it, but it will be very hard to do it in a single movie. I've said from the start I don't really have any issue with any of the events in TLJ it is just how it was executed. Also we still haven't had any real character development for Rey, who is she what are her goals etc.. it basicly feels she just does X because plot not because of any motivations she might have. Can sort of make the same argument for Kylo but he is the villain so that can be filled out in expanded material, Finn gets development in TLJ but sadly his arc well not being a bad arc is the weakest part of the film because well canto bite.... but really that sums up TLJ nothing that happens in the movie matters it all leads into nothing we are basicly at the same place we left TFA just no more Snoke or Luke.
from the EU standpoint, he did.
Qui Gon in my opinion is what a Jedi should be. Give in emotions, put the life of innocents over The Jedi and because of that he my favorite Jedi in the Prequals.
ItsRyanYT I think that he was supposed to train Anakin and not Obi-Wan.
Outside of Plo Koon, Qui-Gon Jinn is my favorite jedi for precisely this reason, He's everything a jedi should strive to be.
@@Left4Deadluver maybe my love of Y-Wings has me partly biased.
@Bill The Bull Gates Jedi aren't peacekeepers of the galaxy, their job is to follow the way of the force, one decision for or against doing something could radically change events so the Jedi follow where the force guides them, because one action no matter how big or small could unbalance the force and they are arbiters of the balance.
@Bill The Bull Gates Most jedi of the time stopped simply following the Way of the Force and started acting more actively in the universe allowing the republic to control their actions when they should've trusted in the force, I don't believe Qui-Gon was wrong for rescuing Anakin, Anakin simply required the kind of teaching only Qui-Gon could offer at the time. I found that the reason Yoda seems so wise in the Original Trilogy was because he made mistakes, ones he recognized later and thats what allowed him to teach Luke not to believe Jedi are infallible and that even the greatest master can fail, purposely or not.
If we get that legendary Kenobi movie, I really hope they give us some Qui-Gon flashbacks. This guy was a legit jedi
Same here. If we get a Kenobi movie and at no point get to see/hear him commune with Qui-Gon I'll be so disappointed.
I hope they have Ron Howard direct it and I hope the Ditzney idiots stay far away. Get one of the quality writers to write the script, one who is a real fan.
@@rjonboy7608 As long as Kathleen Kennedy is in charge of Star Wars, you should fear the announcement of any new movie...
Rithrius amen to this.
What? For real. WHAT?
If Qui-Gon hadn't died, Anakin wouldn't have fallen to the dark side. He would have actually talked to Anakin about his feelings and helped him work things out. Kenobi failed in this regard because he was too perfect of a jedi in the current dogmatic Jedi Order. If you compare prequels Yoda and Kenobi to original trilogy versions of themselves, you can see that in their 17 year banishment, they both became more like Qui-Gon. Learning the errors of their and the Jedi Order's ways.
Great comment, thanks for posting. I totally agree. I think this point isn't talked about enough. Qui-Gon had it right all along, not the Jedi Order's Orthodoxy before the rise of Palpatine. Indeed, had the Jedi Order - or at least the Jedi Council - remained faithful to the true way of the Jedi as embodied by Qui-Gon, Palpatine would never have been able to so completely execute the coup against the Jedi.
@@brianmessemer2973 Yep. They should never have latched themselves to the government of the republic and gotten so entangled in the political maneuverings. Have a council and a school headquarters, but then have the larger part of the order be a bunch of roaming monks, who study the force and do good deeds along the way in their travels. Like wandering samurai movies that inspired Lucas in the first place.
@@derekrichardson7853 I think the Jedi's biggest mistake was that whilst they believed they were keeping the Chosen One out of the hands of the Sith, they actually ended up gift wrapping him and handing him over willingly by fostering and encouraging Anakin's relationship to Palpatine from childhood. They did so because they thought it might be politically useful to them.
In a sense, Palpatine allowed the Jedi to destroy themselves through their own political involvement, and just groomed the Chosen One under their noses. Even with their blessing.
KENOBI failed because he wasn't ready to be a mentor. There's a way to talk to people who learn from you and there's a way NOT to talk to them. That's why his lines towards Anakin in Attack of the Clones should make your skin crawl...and that's what Lucas got right.... Kenobi was overbearing. At first I didn't like that, but as I get older, I get it.
It's hard to be a teacher.
Qui Gon actually Loved Anakin. Obi wan loved him too but as a Brother. Jin loved him as a Father.
I hadn't heard of the comic, but I will definitely pick it up.
To me Qui-Gon meditating in the middle of the fight with Maul is one of my favorite moments in the prequels. The contrast between Qui-gons meditation, and Mauls agressive pacing shows the difference between light and dark perfectly!
Honestly these authors are the people who should be writing story outlines and plotting the creative direction for the movies. Only then hand it over to the movie directors to execute the vision.
You can't replace George Lucas with Hollywood industry movie directors when it comes to writing stories, they are not creative in the way that George or JK Rowling etc are. But some of these authors are creative when it comes to fantasy, mythology, sci fi. Allow them to write stories and then allow directors to direct movies. Guys like JJ and Rian will make good movies if you give them a story, but they cannot come up with story. They never should have been given that responsibility, I think that is Kathleen Kennedy's biggest mistake. She didn't understand that Star Wars at it's core is mythological story telling.
The comics, novels, and animatdd shows are the only things holding Star Wars together right now. We can only hope future movies and live action TV shows can bring back Star Wars to what it was.
Totally agree, look at what Charles Soule did with the Vader comic compared to what Rian Johnson did with TLJ, who understands Star Wars more?
@@proevoisace7 yep, the fault lies with Disney for thinking that movie directors are capable of coming up with good Star Wars stories on the fly. Let authors write stories and then let directors make the movies please.
Look at what they have come up with so far. Luke has failed to pass on what he learned so he has not done what Yoda asked of him in ROTJ, he failed to rebuild the Jedi order. The new Jedi order was destroyed again by one boy who turned. So Kylo replaces Anakin in the plot. Snoke is a drop in replacement of Palpatine. Starkiller base replaces deathstar. BB8 replaces R2 as droid on the run with secret data. First order replaces the empire. Luke's character arc is forgotten, this is the guy who once said 'I am a jedi, like my father before me'. So creatively bankrupt.
The star wars universe mythos has a whole galaxy of possibilities for new Wars and social and political strife and they came up with this. For Disney it's either 'copy plot' or 'let the past die, kill it if you have to'. They can't come up with new adventures without either copying or destroying the past.
@@Arjun-eb1yc you're right of course, the comics more than anything show what the sequels could have been. I was listening to a podcast the other day and it asked if there was one thing you could change about TLJ what would it be and obviously im nowhere near the creative minds they could get but see what you think...
I'd have a whole new plot but assuming we can't do that i'd have the reason Luke tried to kill kylo differently. I'd have made Luke have a daughter who was force sensitive but she was killed by Snoke along with Luke's jedi order, however Snoke would manipulate the situation to make it look like Kylo Ren was the murderer, Luke would have a reason even briefly to think about killing Ben, he would be distraught at losing his daughter and padawans and would be a believable reason for him to be on that damn island.
I thought about that question for only a few minutes but what I came up with I think would have resonated so much more, it baffles the mind Rian Johnson had years to come up with something and thats what we got
@@proevoisace7 yep that actually makes it more personal for Luke and it's a better justification. Nothing like losing a child.
What Rian did was basically write a new character about a Jedi who wants to die and he tried to pass him off as Luke Skywalker.
Thor sometimes I feel like you’re the only star wars you tuber who gets the whole balance in the force thing. Star Wars explained recently did a video on this same comic book and some how seem to get the whole balance between the light and dark thing out of it.
I KNOW. Star Wars Explained has really lost it. And his followers have become just as delusional thanks to his incorrect interpretations.
Well, in the movies Yoda was very clear that once you dabble in the dark side "forever will it dominate your destiny". Maybe it's like an addiction, you can quit but you're never really free. Even if you go for years clean you need to work at it and prepare for when that sudden craving gets you at the worst moment. "Gray" is kind of like denial, or just a little bit thinking.
@@thatblondboy007 Not just SWE but Generation Tech has also perpetuated this misconception as well. I've gone to great lengths to correct his videos on the topic and hopefully get his attention.
@@thatblondboy007 that's cuz of Rian Johnson, he followed some little TH-cam theories that the Force was in imbalance cuz there were more Jedi than Sith and that both sides need to be used equally and then he ignored all of George Lucas explanation about the chosen one and made it a reason to make Rey OP
When you realize no matter how you react, you won't change anything. You won't make people suddenly change their minds.
The only required response is, "that's an interesting way to think about it". By simply realizing it doesn't resonate with you allows you to let it go and move on.
Life is so much better when you don't try to change what's happening around you, but what's happening inside you is the very beginning of your inner peace.
Love this comic, love Qui Gon Jinn and I thank Liam Neeson for playing this character. He is my favorite character from the Phantom Menace and the whole prequel trilogy, he's a true Jedi.
I agree. Greatest character in the Prequel trilogy.
In The Phantom Menace when Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan first come aboard the Trade Federation flagship, Obi-Wan tells Qui-Gon that he senses something elusive. The thing that Obi-Wan senses later reveals itself to be a Sith presence. Yoda had previously told Obi-Wan to be mindful of the force. Qui-Gon tells Obi-Wan not to sacrifice knowing what was going on at the moment for seeing the bigger picture of the force. Qui-Gon believed that to be balanced in the force meant being centered within the moment. Qui-Gon believed that centering yourself required listening to what the force was telling you. This is why Qui-Gon did not follow every edict of the Jedi code. Qui-Gon saw the Jedi code as a guidebook and the force as the guide while the Jedi council saw the Jedi code as a guide and the force as merely an instrument. One of the reasons why the Jedi could not sense the presence of Darth Sidious is because they had fallen out of tune with what the force was telling them. Qui-Gon believed that the Jedi had fallen out of tune with what the force was telling them by being overly strict in their adherence to the Jedi code. Obi-Wan told Qui-Gon that if he followed the Jedi code to the letter he would be on the council. To this Qui-Gon replied that Obi-Wan still had much to learn about the force. During his fight with Darth Maul, Qui-Gon centered himself so that hate would not consume him. Qui-Gon believed that being balanced in the force meant being at peace with yourself and the outside world. The Sith knew that one of the weaknesses of the Jedi was an unbridled hatred. The Sith knew that they could exploit this weakness to prevent the Jedi from being balanced in the force. Qui-Gon died at the hand of Darth Maul because through his communion with the force he sensed that it was his destiny.
Thor Skywalker, you're my favorite Star Wars TH-camr! Very articulate and non confrontational approach to your videos and opinions FUN TO WATCH and,,, I almost always agree 😁
Thank you for saying that. Star Wars is meant to be shared and enjoyed, not fought over or about.
Thank you, I finally understand Qui-Gon. I had always assumed he just didn't want to obey the other masters. Now, after your video, I have so much more understanding.
Also i'm glad you're making videos like this again, puts a warm feeling in my heart to be able to talk Star Wars like this.
Same I missed it
hopefully IX is a great movie and we can start to move on from TLJ for reals after that, even now more then a year since I seen it the first time whenever I think of Star Wars it is the first thing that comes to my mind, was just that damaging.
Actually hope they make an Obi Wan film and have Qui Gon as a force Ghost, I am sure Liam Neeson will be up for it, definitely one of the best characters from the prequels, see people forget all the awesome stuff that came out of the prequels, while TLJ had nothing that will last and be remembered
Qui-Gon Jinn, is the perfect example of what a Jedi should be... I always thought this! Great video dude!!
Why can’t writers like this work on the movies?
That's why the MCU is so great. One of the greatest Marvel writers of all time is actually the head of it.
@@jagnestormskull3178this comment did NOT age well
@@blacklivesorblackvotes2985 Yeah... the MCU is sort of wandering without a clear goal or arc right now. If it focused on Kang the Conqueror, I think they would be golden, but they're also focusing on the Skrulls and trying to get the X-Men into the MCU...
This is why Qui Gon has always been my favorite of the Jedi. Right there with Luke and Reven. He was the first, in canon, that truly was a servant of the force, and achieved what Palpatine had promised Anikan.
I'm glad to learn more about Qu-Gon, he has always been one of my favorite characters
There isn't more to learn, you saw the movie, you learned it all, the rest is fan fiction bullshit.
The notion of the "Grey" side really took off during the "dark and edgy" 90s, and popped up in the novels of that time a lot. The real question is, WHY does that concept appeal to the fandom so much? I think it appeals to many because it seems to reject Extremism, which, in real life, leads to imbalance. I think most people intuitively sense that a moderate approach to things, where many extremes meet in the middle, hopefully allowing one to take the best of each and leave the worst behind, is a productive way of life, in philosophy, politics, whatever. So, it's a little jarring to them to get that that's NOT how it works in SW...just my thought.
The Grey Jedi: We'll come together and vote, based on freedom of choice. We'll then take the freedom of choice away and the majority rules in moderation of the extremes.
The True Jedi: I'll do what I must to ensure what the Force wills, even if it is to go to extremes to protect what I am guided to do.
I think some of it may have came from games like Jedi Academy that let you use both light side skills and dark skills like force lightning and force choke without going dark. Then ar one point you can choose the light or dark path and still use all the skills. It was rather fun occasionally force choking an annoying mouthy dark jedi, turning and dropping him over the edge of a walkway to splat. 😁
But I always had my doubts about the "good"ness of some of that, like watching Obi Wan mindfuck some poor draftee, "these are not the droids you are looking for. Now drop your pants and do the chicken dance while chanting 'Vader gives great helmet'" poor schmuck will be in therapy for years!
I think the biggest problem is, once you step into Fantasy, you step out of real world Logic. It doesn't matter as long as they give us a good story with some consistency, and some view the consistency as... broken.
I'm not sure how else to articulate that. I feel like there's something to add, but that'll have to be good enough for tonight. I need to get ready for work.
I wish there was a super like button for your comment.
Very good points HoO. Although I admit to being interested in the whole 'Grey Jedi' fad, which I'm pretty sure was in the 90's like you said, I consider it to be more due to laziness, both in the character and the writer. Being a Jedi or Sith requires a great deal of study and training in that specific lore. Not worrying about writing any of that into a story can save a bunch of time, which also makes the character seemingly more relatable. And as Dale touched on, worrying about real world logic in a science-fantasy genre it doesn't really work. It just makes the characters more bland IMHO.
Qui-Gon Jinn should have been the Grand Master of the Jedi Order during the time of troubles with the return of the Sith. Far better and would have made sure Anakin was properly trained.
He had more of a father-son relationship with Anakin, while Obi-Wan was more like an elder brother acting as a parent. This in my opinion caused Anakin to be this rebellious towards his master.
Um, the whole premise is stupid. Why bring balance to something already in the majority. Why 'want' darkness? Qui-gon is one of the most stupid Jedi to ever live and his actions brought nothing but shame on his name.
+Starwars is dead and Luke is bringing them back? He’s making the same mistakes his predecessors are making.
I don't think its that he would have trained Anakin better, but that he might have seen through Palpatine more quickly, and not allowed him to foster a close relationship with Anakin from childhood, which the Jedi Council did, and by doing so groom a vulnerable child under their noses.
They basically gift wrapped The Chosen One and handed him over the Sith like a Christmas present.
@@LCM-vo1rj you care, or you wouldn't have targetted me. Thanks for caring.
still happy to see someone share my view of Qui Gon after 15 years of being the only one I knew who considered him the most jedilike Jedi in the whole movies. Liam Neeson gave such an iconic performance in that movie its one of the few redeeming features of The Phantom Manace. Thats also why I dont understand why some original trilogy hardcore fans hate on the Prequels, claiming they where utter crap. Sure, they where flawed in some ways (Jar-Jar; Mediclorians *coughcough*); Lucas also showed us what a true Jedi should sound, act and look like.
Surely, later Luke and Yoda showed that wisdom, but in everything Qui Gon did, from the way he talked to Anakin, his mother, the council, Obi-Wan and anyone else you could just feel his inner balance oozing from him in all he said and did. He was determined, fearless, kind and not attached to anything to a point where (fear of) loss would tempt him to be selfish. He listened to the will of the force, and when faced with being called to throw his own well-being to defend others there was no hesitation, but also no anger or doubt. Or hate. He did what was needed, no matter the personal cost it would take from him.
"Keep your concentration here and now, where it belongs."
"Concentrate on the moment. Feel, don't think. Use your instincts."
"Your focus determines your reality."
I've always considered Qui-Gon to be the wisest Jedi. In my own stories, the characters look up to him
7:57 "Feed you after midnight, I should not have!"
I've always like Qui Gon. He has been my favourite Jedi ever since the Phantom Menace.
I wonder what Qui Gonn’s thoughts on Mace Windu’s Vaapaad fighting style were then.
@Still It was also used by Dark side users
Now, Once I got an alert that you uploaded another video, I immediately knew it was going to be "How star wars sucks now" "Who are rey's parents" or "why star wars is dying" Surprised (pleasantly) that we get some original good, and more though provoking content that doesn't involve any dead horses by beating!
Oui Gon Jinn is the greats jedi to ever exist. To be temped by the dark side multiple times, and still stay a Jedi is a feat that many Jedi feld to do. If Qui Gon managed to get through to Anikan while he killed the Sand People, he never would've been temped to the dark side. Qui Gon continued to call at to Anikan through out the clone wars and through out his temptations to the dark side. But Anikan under truly understood that Qui Gon is calling to him through the force. Which lead to his fall and become vader. Sounds dumb to say, but he died vs Maul cause he chose too. To join the living force, to hopefully one day guide the jedi to true understanding. This also ties into Return of the Jedi. When Yota talks to Luke, saying books dont make a jedi. Only truly trusting the force makes a Jedi.
So trust the force helps jedie become immortal but for anyone who isn't a jedie gets screwed. Great
@@Narutofan825 all become the force, but all cant retain themselves, some jedi and a few sith retained themselves through the force. Force ghost or even rebirth, all is possible if you retain yourself in the force
Gray Jedi come from the stigma of the teachings of the Jedi Order. Jedi that use, or adhere to, strictly Sith abilities or doctrine have to be categorized separately by both being able to cross that line & choosing to. As we know now a TRUE Jedi is one that straddles the lines between them & uses the teachings of both to carry out the will of the force. Qui-Gon Jinn was a great example of what an actual Jedi should be. The only thing gray about him was what we called him before we knew the true nature of the force & maybe his hair lol
What true nature? Is it in film? Did Lucas write it? Because the extended shit is extended shit, it's not canon lol.
Loved this video. Please keep making more.
Thanks. Qui-Gon is one of my favorites. I quote him a lot in my videos.
Thank you for this. Qui-Gon has always been one of my top favorite characters, and it's a shame we didn't get more of him in the films. His death was, unfortunately, necessary. I'm glad this comic exists, and it might've made good material for a nice 90 minute movie. Nevertheless, I don't trust the current management at Lucasfilm to execute it well.
A great summary of this comic! A very enjoyable video!
Cool. Qui-Gon is my favorite Jedi.
I haven't read this comic but ever since watching episode one, I always felt qui gon was and is what jedi should be. Not a follower of the republic, but a follower of the Force itself. I'm glad to see that he is finally getting some focus, he is such an enigmatic character in star wars lore. I fully believe that had he survived past the battle of Naboo and trained Anakin, Anakin would have never fallen to the dark side
Qui gon was always my favorite character and i would LOVE to see more of him...
People hate on Qui Gon, but I've always re recognized him as one of my favorite Jedi. He embodies what a Jedi should be.
5:50 I've always hated the dark and light side labels. One side revolves around serenity, the other around passion. Both can lead to ruin if taken to their extremes. I've always looked at the idea of a gray jedi as someone which has come to understand that and walk the line between - not becoming too disconnected from the world and ultimately the force in their serenity, but also realizing the danger of becoming lost in dark passions like hatred and anger and instead letting compassion and love drive their use of the force when appropriate.
Oh, so that's the character the movies should be exploring.
Qui Gon and Kreia, the true jedi philosophers. They are what makes star wars universe still interesting imo.
4:28 This bit here reminds me of the way Luke defeated the Emperor, he was trying to use empathy to make Vader change, seeing him as a broken man rather than a monster.
There are some interesting discussions (that aren't pro war exactly) about Lord of the Rings and how the way they handle war is good. Bc it acknowledges that you should use war to protect, or to do what is necessary, but it never glorifies it. In TPM, it looks as though Qui Gon is not afraid to bring the fight to them if it means helping people. Which is basically how I view the Jedi's involvement in CW, they wanted to do what was right, and likely were, but they were also playing into Palpatine's hand which I think is a symbol that we are good not bcoz we win but bcoz of our choices.
My favorite Jedi. So many what-ifs.
I find it hard to believe in the Jedi when the only successes we are shown are when the protagonists ignore the Light Side.
Qui Gon stops to meditate and center himself in the fight with Mail, and dies. Obi Wan only wins once he attacks with angry fervor.
Yoda tells Luke he needs to stay on Dagobah or all will be lost. Instead Luke gives in to fear, runs off, and winds up saving his friends - the only reason the Rebels win against the Empire later.
Similarly to the first example, Luke gets his butt kicked by Vader/Palpatine until he truly let's loose and gets pissed, then he is victorious, and manages to not only defeat Vader but TURN HIM AWAY FROM THE SITH...all because of anger and hate.
Great video Thor! This is the funnest I've had thinking about the Force in over a year. I even forgot about TLJ garbage until I started typing this.
True. No dabbling. Great video! Thank you!
Love all your vids and the point of views you present for food for thought. Though I admit in this video I had to comment on your point of view about the perception of the dark side. The one exception to your belief about the boundaries of such is Mace Windu and his ability to use the seventh form and vaapad which taps into the dark side...
Yes, I have thought the same as you. I have not read this comic, or any of them, but Qui Gon is from before the "clouding" of the force by Palpatine as discussed in TPM (a movie many still reject) but before the Dark Side fouled in the Senate and the force (something that took the Jedi Council by surprise as apparent from dialogue the Sith were thought wiped out) Before Palpatine sprang into their midst the Sith spent generations perfecting trickery to cover and hide so he could stand right among them. Apparently, before that masters could detect force users from long distances and in visions. They would know about sensitives long before they used their "wild talents", or were exploited for them.
And I also agree about Qui Gon's behavior. He followed the will of the Force, not the will of the Senate. The politicians didn't like that, as we saw in some of the New Republic books where Luke took his new jedi academy off Coruscant and there was still a lot of government complaints about them not knuckling under to local authority. Also, the fight with Maul showed Qui Gon was not a "warrior" (only) as Maul was more agressive and ruthless. Qui Gon was more of an inspector-diplomat. He could fight, but it was not his first job.
The Jedi were not, after all, a Christian organization and should not be judged in that context. It seems the philosophy was more of a ambassador between societies. Bringing order through understanding. That's why they didn't just kill the slave keeper Watto and free little Anakin and his mother. In my opinion they didn't grant themselves the right to judge. (Plus it would have made for a much shorter movie...🤑)
Qui-Gon is one of my all time favorite Star Wars characters. When strugling with the fact that I didn't really liked Episode I (Or that there's is a lot I dont't like in the movie) , I've always think of Qui-Gon, and the the movie become more palatable for me...
I don't know if I'm alone here or not, but I would love to see a full video on your feelings on the Grey Jedi
Of all the good things about the Prequel, Qui-Gon Jinn is my favorite. And it certainly doesn't hurt that Liam Neeson was casted as Jinn :D
Another excellent and insightful vid. I'm seeing a slight contradiction though when it comes to Windu's use of Vapaad which according to canon, allows himself to enjoy the fight and also treads dangerously close to the darkside. Perhaps a video to help explain that if not already done so.
Qui-Gon is by far my fav character in the franchise, i hope he has a cameo in IX. There was a really good article about him on starwars.com not too long ago; www.starwars.com/news/my-favorite-scene-qui-gon-waits
The only thing i would want to add to the article is Qui-Gon's line to Anakin earlier in the film:
"Without the midi-chlorians,
life could not exist...and we would have no knowledge of the Force.
They continually speak to us... telling us the will of the Force.
When you learn
to quiet your mind... you'll hear them speaking to you."
When he's sat down with his eyes shut, this is exactly what he's doing.
Qui Gon is the paragon Anakin was denied. The Mr. Miyagi he needed, one with the courage to disobey because he needed to, not because he wanted to, like Anakin ended up doing.
My personal favorite lately.
I love it. well put
I liked the comic but it felt very very short. I’m glad I bought it though. Anything that explores the decades before The Phantom Menace peak my interest. I hope they continue to come out with content that takes place before TPM and also between TPM and AOTC.
Qui-Gon is like the Jedi Martin Luther. He was definitely my favourite prequel character.
WOW!!!!!! Great clip.... I have to find this comic book.....
It's a great comic, well worth picking up and reading.
Always my favorite jedi.
The Jedi council is the college of cardinals and Qui Gon Jinn was like a medieval friar who became a saint (Francis of Assisi for example)
He is the greatest Jedi of all, and he deserved so much more screen time.
The Prequels were great for many reasons, despite their giant flaws. The character of Qui-Gon is one of those great reasons. He's the best character of the prequels, and that's saying something, considering how great Palpatine, Obi-Wan, and Mace are. I remember shortly after TPM was released, I was on a Star Wars discussion board (which no longer exists), and wrote a long tribute to Qui-Gon, stating how he was the greatest of all the Jedi order at that time. I wish I still had that saved somewhere. Oh well. It is remembered in the aether.
I love how restrained Qui Gon is until he’s face to face with a Sith, then he doesn’t hold back; however he’s still outmatched by Maul and is put on the defensive twice. It makes me truly wonder how Qui Gon would’ve fit in during the Clone Wars had he survived, as the Jedi easily step in as keepers of peace leading convenient clones against the droids (their biggest threat until the reveal of the Sith) and don’t hold back.
Qui Gon is a true Jedi, Obi Wan learned his lesson on Tatooine, and Yoda during his duel with Sidious…
You have great points, but could you elaborate on why you appear to think the dark side is something that must always be kept in check, and not ever used to bring balance. To my understanding, the dark side has many “good” things to offer. For instance: ambition, passion, and strength are all traits associated with the dark side, but one could argue they are essential in order to be well balanced. You wouldn’t want a Jedi to be complacent, apathetic or weak. To my understanding, the essence of a grey Jedi is balance which is exactly what Qui gon seems to be.
Obi-Wan is my favorite character in all of Star Wars, but Qui-Gon is my favorite Jedi.
That makes no sense at all.
Well said, Master Jedi. Well said.
Had Qui-Gon Jinn lived and killed Darth Maul alongside Obi-Wan Kenobi during the duel on Naboo if the latter hadn't been knocked out by him there would have been a lot of changes for the Skywalker Saga:
1. Anakin Skywalker would become Qui-Gon Jinn's new apprentice and Obi-Wan Kenobi would be assigned to Count Dooku given his history with the former as his master.
2. Darth Maul would be as mentioned before dead thus he wouldn't come back with mechanical legs and wreak on the galaxy even going so far as to kill Duchess Satine Kryze and Pre Viszla respectively as well as take over Mandalore briefly.
3. Count Dooku would have never left the Jedi Order/Jedi Council and the Galactic Republic by defecting to the Confederacy of Independent Systems (CIS).
4. Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious would have never had Count Dooku as an apprentice instead he would have to find another one and seeing how he knows the Nightbrothers/Nightsisters of Dathomir really well given his history with Darth Maul he would choose Asajj Ventress as his new apprentice.
5. Savage Oppress would be even more angry at the Jedi Order/Galactic Republic for killing his brother Darth Maul he would likely join the Confederacy of Independent Systems (CIS) trained as a Sith assassin under Asajj Ventress and Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious.
6. Anakin Skywalker would become a Jedi Knight like he did in the main timeline.
7. As for Shmi Skywalker, she would have either lived or died depending on how things go.
8. The Confederacy of Independent Systems (CIS) would have a completely different leader possibly Asajj Ventress since she would be a fully trained apprentice under Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious and thus become a figurehead leader.
9. Ahsoka Tano would still become Anakin Skywalker's apprentice and alongside Qui Gon Jinn, and Obi-Wan Kenobi fight in the Clone Wars on the side of the Galactic Republic against the Confederacy of Independent Systems (CIS).
10. Given that Anakin Skywalker was very close to Qui Gon-Jinn he would have very much talked to him about his feelings and love for Padme Amidala something he might object to but try to help him out a lot. Qui Gon Jinn would have also countered any and all attempts of Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious trying to influence Anakin Skywalker given his teachings. Flash forward to Revenge of the Sith and Order 66 might not even occur whatsoever with him to help his former apprentice who wouldn't have killed Mace Windu and instead Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious would have probably died or gone into hiding.
11. Padme Amidala would be alive and well complete with giving a healthy birth to both Luke Skywalker and Leia Skywalker after the Clone Wars for Anakin Skywalker. Although the Jedi Order/Galactic Republic were not fans of marriage and love given that Luke Skywalker and Leia Skywalker were more or less likely to be strong in the Force they wouldn't refuse training and instead allow them in as new recruits/Padawans/Knights.
Qui Gon is legitimately underrated by fans.
Qui Gon is one of my favorite Star Wars characters. A true Jedi!
Without destruction, without corruption, there can be no life.
A Gray Jedi has found Balance in the Force, and would be a great Jedi indeed.
This gray nonsense... very millennial. Yoda told everyone, do or do not, there is no try. There is no in between, you are a Jedi or you are a Sith, you are a good person or you are not. Fan fiction nonsense.
Star Wars comic books? Who knew? You taught me why I identify more with Qui Gon than I do other Jedi. I hate rigidity. Not all rules make sense and if I think my way is better, I follow it. My only real disappointment in Qui Gon was his agility. It would have been nice if he had been able to hang better with Darth Maul. Just thought of something-Qui Gon Jinn was very much like Kwai Chang Caine, though more impulsive and less balanced.Even though I was a girl, I wanted to grow up to be Kwai Chang Caine. Live Long and Prosper.
Qui-Gon was a complete throw-a-way character, just as the Phantom Menace was a throw-a-way movie, Both could have been so much more
Now u talking that good shit my friend
Wait does Grey Jedi only mean a Jedi who draws on both the powers of Light and Dark in combat? I thought Grey Jedi could have two definitions with that being one of them and the other being a Jedi who simply disagrees with the core ethos of the Jedi Council. That is why I considered, for example, Jolee Bindo to be a "Grey Jedi" and Qui-Gon is in that same camp. Both are clearly exclusively on the Light side but their alienation from the council because of the rigidity and ethos of it was what made them "Grey" to me. I definitely agree with your core point though that the idea a Jedi can balance light and dark can last only temporarily at best. Hell, Mace Windu and his Vapaad style was evidence of this if you ask me.
Is using the dark side to do good possible or inherently contradictory, and isn't the dark side necessary to maintain balance in the first place, or am I completely wrong and an idiot for asking?
Wow so interesting themes
They would’ve be great to include them more clearly in the prequels
I'm glad that u touched on "grey jedi" I've seen many references to this on You tube but though I've read every single novel in SW universe the only time I've seen that referenced is in the Coruscant nights trilogy and it only refers to a jedi who uses other weapons besides the lightsaber and is not part of the order itself. So where is everyone getting this half dark half light stuff?
If a Kenobi movie were to still happen I would have loved to have seen scenes of obi wan training with a force ghost qui gon (Liam Neeson preferably) while spending his time watching over Luke on tatooine.
Now, everyone should adhere to the proper commenting format, of starting your comment with "now".
Qui-Gon was the wisest Jedi of his time. I think that is why I like him and Ahsoka so much. They are wise and they are prescient, and they act on it and behave according to it instead of just taking the easier path. If only Obi-Wan had listened to his master.
Oh, so that's why TCW'08 is the greatest Star Wars ever. It continues to retell things that were said long before it, but in such a way that people think these are TCW's original genius ideas.
Another great video Thor! Was he truly the only Jedi following the correct path? How many others that were not on the council believed his way was best? Qui-gon couldn't have been the only one.
That's a good question. Certainly there were other Jedi who hadn't lost their way. I'd have to imagine there was still quite a few of them too.
@@thorskywalker I would also just like to wish you and your better half a very Merry Christmas and may GOD bless you and your family. Entertainment through song, written word, and visuals is a form of healing. If you do something that others enjoy, it makes them happy, which in turn helps them to heal. Thankyou for being a part of my team.
Thor, given the news that John Williams is retiring from scoring Star Wars, how about a video/poll about who should succeed him? Personally, I think Michael Giacchino has it on lock, but maybe someone else would be even better (NOT Hans Zimmer, thank you very much!^^)?
Great idea for a poll and question of the week. I've always maintained that Williams' score is one of the many things that separated Star Wars from anything else that had ever been done. He will be near impossible to replace.
As an aspiring film composer, and per my earlier comment on this video, if a good Qui-Gon film ever does get made, I really want to score that! Someone else can do everything else (preferably someone who loves Star Wars and Williams's music!)
James Newton Howard?
Thomas Bergersen?
Thomas Newton?
Alan Silvestri
You know what this means? That if Qui-Gon Jinn hadn't been killed by Darth Maul, he would have trained at Anakin to heed the will of the force. Meaning when Anakin hooked up with Padme, Qui-Gon Jinn might have covered for Anakin believing it to be the will of the force as love as a form of compassion which is part of the light side.
Top video, Thor. This character is very underrated.
Good Stuff, keep it up champ!
Now this is a last Jedi I would spend money on.
Excellent review and I have always liked Qui-Gon's character. Balance goes both ways tho. With the Jedi being a light- side Force user only and there being so many. The balance was the rise of Palpatine and his apprentice to counter the light. There can be no light without darkness. Conversely Ep 4-6 dealt with the opposite, the light rising to counter the dark. The Jedi cannot exist without Sith. My theory is that Rey will be that conduit between both dark and light. The first Grey to finally bring balance.
Qui-Gon is easily the best part of TPM. I can't say anything beyond that he really was a true Jedi.
I really enjoy the things you post about Qui-gon. I never really understood his character and can admit that I fell into the camp of Grey Jedi advocates. But i agree with you now. Grey Jedi seem kind of stupid. I think the Sith would agree and just try to exploit them.
"Peace keepers failing to keep the peace"
First, what do you do with Mace Windu? Second, Yoda would never believe that the republic knows more than the force, although it is possible that he would be arrogant and think he knows more about the force..., etc. (Which is possibly what Sidious spoke to prior to their encounter.) I would be interested, now that it's been 2 years, in your thoughts post "Master and Apprentice".
Good vid, thanks. I will get the comic now.
2:30 Fighting fire with fire is often successful, and sometimes fighting darkness with darkness is also successful. Both create more damage.
Fighting fire with prevention causes no damage, but also stifles change.
Fighting darkness with compassion causes no damage, but also stifles the lessons that can be learned from it.
When you cross the line of extinguishing light for darkness is the extreme the natural man would most likely fall easily into. That's when things become "unnatural". Death, fear and decay become the building blocks by coercion, not by nature. Hate and pain become the driving
Balance is knowing when and how the darkness can effect everything. It's remaining unconditional about the outcome. Stepping into fear or anxiety, or even death and embracing the outcome as what is to be. Much like a forest fire destroys what's in its path, it also creates new life, leaving some parts of the forest untouched, speeding decay to a point where it can create new life and population control so life doesn't choke itself out.
How Jedi become a Force Ghost - stepping into death without fear of being lost - holding fast to the Living Force - holding on to power, instead of becoming part of the Force itself, which is still unnatural...
Qui Gon let go of the Living Force and moved on, eternal in the Force. I consider or anticipate that he is the male incarnate of the daughter, and Rey is incarnate of him. Rey is the Last Jedi. A True Jedi.
Which leads us to 6:24
The force is a see-saw, and qui-gon identified the intense weight on one side imposed by the jedi leading to an intense counterweight by the sith. The jedi all sat there with their overzealous arms folded on their seat and ultimately what happened happened.
Something I've always wondered. Is there such a thing to be TOO light?
Nailed it
The thing that popped into my head as I was watching this was something Jesus said "Satan cannot cast out satan, for a house divided against itself will not stand"
@Thor Skywalker it seams that Qui Gon is more in tune with the force and even achieves more than Yoda becoming one with the force. Do you think this diminishes Yoda's legacy as the most powerful Jedi?
U should make a video on the Grey Jedi, compare them to the Jedi and Sith.
This video proves so well that turning into the dark side is inevitable. And why meditation is necessary.
I wish Ep1 had started with Anakin and Obi-Wan at the ages they were in Ep2, and skipped most of the plot of Ep1, except Darth Maul and Qui-Gon, and they both had lasted longer... maybe Qui-Gon could’ve filled the Mace Windu role, but in a more Qui-Gonny way?
I see that you too watched the SFdebris documentaries of 'The Hermit's Journey'.
I don't think Qui Gon would have agreed with getting involved in The Clone Wars at all though.
@@englishlady9797 - yea, but wouldn’t an anti-war Jedi forced into leading an army have been interesting? Qui-Gon was probably the most complex character in any Star Wars movie, but it was all very subtle and he only lasted one movie... he deserved more time on screen.