Already at work so wont be able to read and responeld to comments till later. Nevertheless, hope you enjoy the video that has nothing to do with controversy or our shattered fandom.
Thor Skywalker the fandom isn't shattered, that's just a trick from the dark side clouding our judgement. Probably shouldn't have built our temple over a sith temple.
It does, though. Adherence to the will of the force, as he understood it, is what made Qui-Gon Jinn a true Jedi. Now, Snoke decides who a who Jedi is, through bland dialogue in The Last Jedi.
I agree, because Oui-Gon does care about others....in the same way Luke does. Both Yoda and Ben wanted Luke to defeat his father, not save him. The whole point of Star Wars is that the Jedi code is flawed. It is the same reason I believe Kylo is unredeemable....he murdered his father in cold blood and does not regret it for a single moment. I really hate the concept of the gray Jedi....it's just fan boys who like the idea of using dark side powers and still being a Jedi.....they play far too much of Knights of the Old Republic. It's not cool, its not edge...it's lazy writing. It was the thing that I hated about the Star Wars Legacy comic series. Cade Skywalker is a gray Jedi....because reason. He keeps telling everyone that is in neither Jedi or Sith….he does his own thing.....but in the end he always does what is right. And the writer has his healing power as a dark side power....why, it makes no sense, except that every time he uses it he drifts toward the dark side....so that's why he's a gray Jedi...healing people tempts him to the dark side?!!! The writer keeps trying to show us that he is gray, and suggests he doesn't care about anything...it's not edgy, it's not cool, it's force nihilism and it comes off as a cheap storyline at best....he doe not have a defining moment like Kylo Ren does, or Vader does, or Luke....trying to make him edge, and gray makes him a very bland character. There is a scene where he threatens to kill himself if Luke doesn't leave him alone....it was just sad and pathetic....I didn't buy it for a single moment. Nihilism. And I think that is the furthers thing from what the force is, and that is what Lucas has always been trying to tell use. Even his new concept about the Whills feels to me, like Lucas is trying to place "the force" and all life in the galaxy under threat, and Luke and his children would have to face the Whills and stop them from exterminating all like in the galaxy, and destroying "the force." I actually like this idea.
I love that we have a video looking at something other than the drama of star wars vs our world stuff like this let's me escape bad into the universe of star wars better than that drama
@@HellShoot he just said he found the secret to immortality and could teach them the method or something along those lines. It's been a little while for me to but I've never seen the clone wars and always knew it was quigon who discovered the method.
@@TommyTombstone He desperately wanted Anakin to be trained while all the others disagreed ... and where correct in the end. The jedi always wanted to swrve the force. They thought the force wants peace and they saw the republic as the best state to be able to fulfill that.
@@Stego1819 he wanted the Chosen One to be trained. That WAS the Will of the Force. And Anakin fulfilled his prophecy in killing Sidious. (Ignore Disney) Had Anakin not been trained, Palpatine would have taken a different apprentice, likely with less suspicion from the Jedi Council, and as such might never have been maimed during his standoff with Mace Windu. Or he would have taken Anakin himself, instead of the Jedi, and the only course of action there is the Sith Rule of Two: Anakin kills Palpatine not to restore balance, but to take his place as the rightful Sith Master. Qui-Gonn insisting that the Jedi train Anakin was the only course of action that could be taken to stop Sidious, or an apprentice of his, from ruling the galaxy indefinitely.
@@TommyTombstone And if Anakin would have never cut Maces arm if. Mace would have killed Sidious and same result. The sith had no clue Anakin existed until Plagueis heard so from a jedi. Also yes Anakin was the chosen one but was the empire existing truly worth the price? Probably not considering that the galactic civil war lasted for around 20 years.
@steve sabroe Seriously? You think Phantom Menace is as good as a New Hope? The movie that had Jar Jar, trade negotiations, Jar Jar, senate debates, Jar Jar, midi-chlorians, and Jar-Jar is as good as the original Star Wars?
@@TommyTombstone The force is upset by the SITH, dark side users in general may or may not unbalance based on personal choices (IE there are many books where a slave or widow uses the dark side to free themselves or get revenge without ever going full Palpatine evil afterwards). Granted I have NO idea what the new cannon is regarding the Sith and their place in the force, but I had always seen them as a sort of force tumor that hungrily consumes everything around it while a general dark sider may actually BRING balance by upsetting worse large scale atrocities with a few specific murders or a single well executed assassination without ever even realizing it, and may or may not fully fall to "dark side addiction" afterwards.
As much as people have eventually rejected Phantom Menace as a good movie, for me, most of the movie is amazingly well done. Quigon is my favorite star wars character and I also love the first experience of the retro universe of star wars. The corridors of the ships, the way the light sabers looked, etc. Still love this film
The phantom menace, and the whole trilogy for that matter, could have been great of anakin was cast better and was older. Could have had a whole Riggs and Murtaugh type situation with him and Obi Wan for a few movies before the falling out
for me, Gui Gon is one of the best, if not the best thing Episode 1 bring to us, not including the awesome Darth Maul, of course. I wolud like to see him in future movies, but saddly, this will never happen...
The genius of the prequels is something people are finally starting to realise. The sequel trilogy was meant to take the prequels and the original trilogy to next levels. But all they did was completely miss what star wars or even what a movie is supposed to be.
I remember reading that Disney wanted to stray away from the prequels as much as possible when they bought Lucasfilm, which is a big insult to Star Wars. When they bought the franchise, they bought ALL of it! There's so many great things the prequels gave us: The Jedi Order, More planets, A deeper understanding of the force.
None of this was actually shown in the movies, we had to rely on supplemental materials and extended universe such as the excelent animated series to even begin to form this kind of meaning. The prequels were schlock on release and now only with nearly two decades of insight and the contributions of many other artists are we finding meaning in them.
@@GodOfPlague I almost walked out of the theater 20 minutes into TLJ, but I wanted to stay and see how bad the train wreck was. There isn't a single other reason to watch TLJ. It makes TFA look like a decent movie, which is saying A LOT!
@Weston Meyer Lol true... but Windu was the only guy who could defeat Sidious. Even Yoda ran away with his tail between his legs. Windu could have destroy the Sith and the greatest war criminal in the history of the galaxy, save the Republic, and crush the Empire in its infancy and become the greatest hero ever. If only mopey Anakin didn't intervene.
@@CrabTastingMan and yet he was blind to Anakin falling and how his desire to destroy Sideous would push him over the edge. Windu may have defeated Sideous but his philosophy and actions meant he defeated himself too.
To me Qui-Gon always seemed to be a wise character and his devotion to the force is not just the thing that makes him a true jedi but the way he handles talking or teaching both Obi-Wan and Anakin. He should be regarded as a true jedi not only because of his dedication but think of the possibility that what if he didn't die in the Phantom Menace. He would be one of the more influential characters and possibly a fan favorite considered he had some good moments. Plus how much more powerful could he have become if he lived longer. I think Anakin's fall to the dark side would be more convincing of Qui-Gon's death happened later and the jedi council being at odds with Qui-Gon would give as sense of corruption more to the point than just simply being part of the republic. Think as the second film would go on and maybe Qui-Gon's teachings may be misinterpreted by the young Anakin and Palpatine would confuse things further but all pointing to the jedi being evil. If Qui-Gon was killed in the second or 3rd film especially in a battle that would seem to pit the jedi council against Qui-Gon or an event that seemed conspired, Anakin could easily fall to the dark side afterwards being that Palpatine's deception would be more effective and of course with can have the Mace Windu VS Palpatine play out as it did after the death of Qui-Gon as Palpatine could effectively deceive Anakin into believing his master was killed by the jedi who are now conspiring to take over the republic.
Me too Qui gon has always been one of my favourites think he could’ve handled anakin where perhaps obi one couldn’t. Although I also think mace windu may have been the idea choice to teach anakin both the light and dark side of the force for if he is the chosen one he would’ve needed to understand both full to bring a balance to them.
SaintLukas Gaming windup was interesting in that he embraced his rage during combat as I understand, but he still was disconnected from the force perhaps more so than others.
@@Strawhat_Kal The Point about Obi Wan and Annakins Relationship was already statet by Obi himself "Brothers".... But what Annakin needed was no Brother he needed a Father. ^^
In my opinion, both Clone Wars Series Anakin, and Qui-Gon Jinn are true Jedi. How can a Jedi remain true to the will of the force, if they are bound by the dictates of a council, that is bound by the law of the republic senate? Yoda and Mace Windu were the casualties of that bureaucratic mess. If 1 Jedi saw through the crap layered atop the will of the force by the council and the republic, it was Anakin. His problem was that he didn't have the patience to deal with the anger he generated at that layer of bureaucracy and lies, nor the political authority to change it. Darth Vader is what you get, when you take a true Jedi, and stack political corruption and dogmatic rule in the way of their urge to serve the will of the force. Anakin built Dart Vader to deal with the realities he faced at the time. Vader was a coping mechanism, and Anakin's one true weakness. His secrets were the weakness of the council. To me, this is why Vader, Anakin, and Obi-Wan have held up as characters for so long. They are very sad, cautionary stories that are completely translatable to the lives of everyday people.
Harold White Well said. Which makes Anakin all the more relatable. With the exception of killing all the young Jedi. I still say they should retcon the shit out of that. Had they omitted that, or eluded to allowing them to secretly escape, it would have mad the end of ROTS so much better. He's angry and twisted at the end, but not a complete monster then. Which would have shown him to be much more of his own character as well then, rather than constantly being led and dictated to and manipulated by others continuously. This is where the writing in the prequels failed the character of Vader.
Read the novelization of ROTS. I agree that including the slaughter of the younglings makes Vader a very problematic character to allow the full redemption of, but the novel provides a bit more insight to how Anakin was dealing with that task. It does, without justifying it, show you how he was able to go through with it. With hindsight, Matthew Stover, the ROTS author, realized he had to provide the character of Anakin/Vader some sort of conflict when describing how Anakin felt during that particular scene, I feel.
No, he was a jedi that was never fully allowed to tap in to his potential, and never fully trained to let go of his attachments. Those 2 things, however, are very intertwined. His attachments helped him draw power from the force but the jedi council had its own long standing attachment to its dogmatic rules. If their mission was to serve the will of the force, how were they to know whether or not their own rules could get in the way/ It seems like anything straying outside that dogma was widely considered a path to the dark side. Skywalker gained power from his attachments and lost power when he tried to keep his emotions in check. His battle with Count Dooku is a perfect example. A simple taunt from Dooku was all it took to break Skywalker's concentration, from handing Dooku an ass whipping, to falling behind in the duel, do to the fear of what would happen if he fully let go. Seriously. ROTS novelization really gets deep into Anakin's psychological struggle with the balance between following the thread of the force, and following the dictates of the council. I suggest it to anyone. It really shed light on his motivations and truly paints a tragic picture of Anakin and his fate. For a science-fiction fantasy aimed at young adults, it's seriously heavy.
@@Bonekinz That doesn't make it a fact lol. In fact, there nothing in the movies to back this up other than fan interpretations or speculations. I mean, its not any more etude than the fan theory that most the kids in Rugrats are dead or were aborted and the whole story takes place in Tommy's head. OR that Harry never left the stairwell and the books are relay him juts coping with his terrible life. At the end of the day, there's noting canonical to back this kind of stuff up...Just pure speculation.
@@AzazelZaphorOmega Just a quick FYI not taking a stance. Jar Jar's real fate was just released in a new canon book. He is basically a street performer with nothing else. It's actually kind of sad.
The reason I always liked him was that he saw value in EVERYONE - including Jar Jar Binks. Obi-Wan didn’t learn this lesson from him unfortunately and ended up too rigid. A great Jedi nonetheless, but too code obsessed at the cost of seeing the value or even differences in people.
Obi Wan saw what qui gons lack of rigidity earned him. Its natural he'd become more (pardon the phrase) conservative. Especially if he is tasked with a padawan of his own right after And especially- especially if it meant a better chance of being on the council someday. Something that was not granted to the (again pardon the phrase) more liberal Jinn
Dooku to an extent was the same way of thinking. He got super pissed when Qui Gon got killed by doing the Gov'ts work. SO much so he went and created a Civil war with the help of a sith and other things lol.
Of course. Jinn wanted to balance the force. He states it numerous times. Yoda stated: "Destroy the Sith, we must.". Those are two completely different things. The prequel "Jedi" don't want balance, they want control. They wanted their ideaology to be the only one. Jinn doesn't see a light and a dark side. Those are labels used to establish ideaologies. What he sees is the Force. One entity that guides all. Yoda was a powerful force user, but was a grandmaster of a flawed religion and likely a cog that resulted in their destruction. Mace Windu was worse. Forsaken by the Force. He lost all ability to sense the force at all, was blind to the councils hubris and turned the Jedi into diplomats and war leaders. Neither are Jedi. He only broke his "code" to kill Palapatine, which was the catalyst for Anakins betrayal. He stopped Mace simply because he was following the template Mace set out, which was clearly flawed and was the final step to Anakins fall.
@alvi syahri Luke wasn't all good though. That is the point. Luke BECAME a true Jedi when he acknowledged he had darkness in him during the final fight. Luke was never confined to rigid code of the Jedi Order. Anakin is a mirror in that he had to accept that the light was in him and embrace it. The Jedi Order were not true Jedi. They had warped the concept. Obi Wan and Yoda post Order 66 are completely different to their PT selves. They left the "order" and became what Jedi should be.
@@gameswithtoasty3246 Yes. We all have darkness and light in us. It is we who choose the direction we go. We have to acknowledge our weaknesses before we can rise above them.
If Qui Gon had trained Anakin, Anakin would have been ready to accept his role as the chosen one when he went to Mortis, thus bringing balance to the force years earlier than he did when he killed the emperor. Great video!
I think that arc has a totally different take on the meaning of balance. In the films and George Lucas' statements it clearly means destroying the Sith, but mortis suggests it means controlling both sides of hte Force. I think filoni got confused.
Phil Osopher you got it backwards, the imbalance came from the fact there were only ever 1 or 2 with and a hand full of dark side users for so long while there were many thousands of Jedi in the galaxy. So bringing balance to the force was not killing the emperor.....it was killing nearly all the Jedi. At the start of the 1st film there are 2 Sith and 2 Jedi. Balance, between the deaths of Palpatine and Anikin and Luke’s new Jedi order there is again an imbalance. The force acted again to bring balance by destroying most of the new Jedi and creating new dark side users But! Luke cut him self off from the force, thus creating an imbalance once again. And as Snoke says the growing strength of the dark side led to a matching strength in the light side. Not Luke as expected but a nobody from nowhere who’s only merit is a desire to know her place and be shown it. A perfect vessel for the force to counter the rising dark side. The force doesn’t care about the emperors cruel regime, the force is not a person wrapped up in ideas like mercy or revenge or good and bad. It is a force, the force and its will is balance, with no concern for right and wrong.
@DrewLSsix How could he get it backwards when George Lucas himself stated that Anakin fulfilled the prophecy when he killed the Emperor? Are you saying that the creator of the Star Wars universe is wrong when it comes to understanding his own creation? Numbers don't mean anything when it comes to balance in the Force. So what that there were thousands of Jedi in the galaxy and 2 Sith? Those Sith destroyed the Jedi and managed to rule the galaxy. The Force isn't divided between Light and Dark, Jedi and Sith. There is the Force which is within all living things. The dark side of the Force is the dark impulses: anger, fear, aggression. Too much of this in the galaxy, and there is an imbalance. This is what the Sith brought about with the Empire. You know when you use the Force correctly by being calm and at peace with yourself. The will of the Force is to create balance, not imbalance. It creates peace and harmony, not death and destruction. That means that the Dark Side must be either extinguished or at the very least brought to heel. It's just like the balance in nature: you don't allow disease and destruction to destroy the plants and animals. It must be either sequestered to whither away and die or to be destroyed utterly. That's why Jedi profess not to kill prisoners. It's the will of the Force.
There's a great video somewhere that puts forward the theory that Anakin was doomed to fail because he was scared of death. Qui Gon probably would not have made a difference. Anakin's fear of death of his loved ones is a constant in all three prequels, and the video mentions that it was one of the reasons he was too old to train. That fear needed to be erased to become a Jedi. But it was too late. Worth looking up the video-made a lot of sense to me:)
Ender Heroes, I read this commend at same time I heard it in the video. I suppose when a Supreme Chancellor becomes corrupted the Senate could still stand - or said Chancellor could topple the Senate and entire Republic to create an Empire. Thus, “This is how liberty dies. With thunderous applause.” - Padme.
Nice 🙂 This is the sort of Fan Elaborations on these stories that I really enjoy, it deepens the story for me. I actually like Qui-Gon too 😂 even though people thought he was "boring". He was great!
Yeah Qui-Gon was a really interesting guy in Star Wars. And in the book: "Star Wars: Master and Apprentice" you can read exactly why Qui-Gon did not want to join the Jedi council.
Obi Wan should have followed Qui Gon's teachings after his death. It was the will of the force that made Obi Wan a jedi and placed him with Qui Gon after the counsel denied Obi Wan to become a padawan.
but he did follow the will of the force (he just don't knew it). At the end Anakin fulfilled his purpose in the prophecy at destroying both the Jedi order and Sidius, bringing balance to the force and a new era of renewal
Great video Thor, I completely agree with you, never really understood why some labelled him as a grey Jedi, Qui Gon always felt like a proper Jedi to me, not misguided like most of the Jedi of the prequel era.
Him being labeled a gray Jedi has always been one of those things that bothers me as well. I think Lucas' intent with the character was to always show what a Jedi in its truest form would be like.
The will of the force clearly cannot be defined as light and dark. The force is just the force. If you remove the prism of light and dark, you are just left with the force. That is why people label Jedi who follow the will of the force as 'grey'. They are still looking through the prism of light vs dark instead of seeing the bigger picture, and being unable to understand the actions of these types of Jedi. By the very definition of 'grey Jedi', Qui-Gon Jinn is a 'grey Jedi' himself.(now before you say "buh muh dark side strain!" When you are angry, you tend to push harder, run faster, hit harder, and push yourself further without realising it. The Sith are doing it to themselves. The push their force abilities Beyond but they're normally capable of through anger and hatred, causing a strain and break down of their body's. Basically they're pulling a muscle. You see Jedi like Yoda who spent decades using their for decades strengthening them, and more powerful then most Sith Lords.) Qui-Gon Jinn follows the will of the force regardless of the sides. He at one point was consumed by grief and used the 'dark side'. He defeated his dark side allowing him to understand the dark side of himself. He achieved balance. Luke managed to achieve balance another way without falling to his darker nature, allowing him to also follow the will of the force aka becoming 'grey'. Those who say that grey Jedi walk the line between the dark and the light are not looking at the bigger picture and seeing that it is not about the dark side of the force or the light side of the force its just the force. If we were talking in the Forum entities. The Jedi Council and the Sith Lords view the force as two separate entities. In reality the force is only one entity, and is ultimately up to the force user of how they utilize and serve the force. The Sith use the force while indulging their dark desire for power, control, superiority and greed. While the Jedi order refuses any morally repugnant desires or selfish ambitions and call it the light. In the end the force is the force. Neither dark nor light.
Qui Gon is not grey. The dark side is unnatural, a manipulation and corruption of the force by the dark side user. A true Jedi allows the light to guide their action. There is the will of the force and it is natural and clean. A grey Jedi, by using both light and the corruption of the dark side, does not follow the will of the force
@@scylla019 what... dark and light side both extremes of the force. And 'allowing' force to guide you means letting slavery exist in outer rim for thousands of years.
Originally, Lucas did describe the Force as having two distinct sides, the Ashla and the Bogan, Light and Dark. IIRC, the two sides were supposed to be separate aspects from each other, with the overarching concept of ''The Force'' used to keep them balanced.
@@berilsevvalbekret772 To say the Jedi must stop crime activity in the whole galaxy is to say ISIS should apply their rules in USA. The jedi follow the force. Not the right thing to do, not the Republic. They are space monks, the force has chosen them to live that lifestyle and that's why they become part of the order after months of being born. They must protect the galaxy from the dark side, which is the result of an unwise way of using force sensitivity that does lead to destruction in the galaxy due to all the ambition, greed and anger dark force users get. The Jedi fucked up from the moment they let the Republic use them.
Shameless self-congratulation because Disney did an Obama sized bail out for Lucas Arts. We watched them destroy the Empire and give ancient finesse weapons hand guards. Had to deal with ludacris review boosting and the most boring script out of all canon and mainstream. The only thing missing is a gender confused jedi and an emo rage baby sith. Inb4 fuck im too late
Apparently the only requirements for making SW movies now is: A)have a vagina B)crappy Sundance film Festival credentials C)read three SW books 😔 This is how you destroy a franchise legacy.
Great Video! I really enjoyed how you elaborated on Qui-Gon doing what he believed to be the will of the force! I think that a good showpoint of this (intentional or not although I believe it is intentional) is the scene where we is waiting for the shield to go down to confront Maul, he is very calm and does not appear to be afraid because he knows that what happens will be the will of the force and will happen to maintain balance within the force. Seeing that this leads to Obi-Wan training Anikin and Anikin killing or causing the death of almost all the jedi, bringing balance between the light and the dark.
Absolutely love this. This shifting of viewpoint on Qui-Gon’s character offers both a true interpretation of his values and also retains his originality of viewpoint compared to the rest of the Order. Well done thoughtful piece
Yes, but there is so much that happened to bring us up to that point... which essentially begs the question: What ignited the war between the Jedi & the Sith in the first place ? Do you accept the Jedi lies ? Remember that history is always told by the victors. You've only ever seen & heard one perspective. Please commune with the force so that you may discover the truth.
He said "change his mind," but I don't think he even read what I wrote, which makes his challenge disingenuous because he doesn't even respond if we succeeded or failed to change his mind & why.
I think his low IQ brain literally exploded when I simultaneously agreed & disagreed with him... He was like HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE ??? ...Well young padawan, let me put it in more simple terms that your tiny brain can digest: As was told in the Matrix: *Every Beginning has an End.* So while yes, I agree that we've seen the END of Stars Wars, I honestly believe we've never seen the Beginning. The whole Star Wars universe really begs the question: What ignited the war between the Sith and the Jedi in the first place ? What led to the creation of the first Jedi Council ? I personally believe that the entire Star Wars universe is a historical fabrication by the Jedi: Lies & propaganda. I think the historical TRUTH of what really happened is far more interesting.
now now, no need to insult someone for not replying. what if he got hit by a car the next day and is still in a coma somewhere in a hospital? while the odds of that are low, we don't know? maybe he got convinced by your comment but felt too ashamed to reply so he just decided to disappear back into the endless mist of the internet. (the introvert technique) or maybe he just doesn't know how to use youtube properly and posted the comment with no idea that notifications is a thing? or he doesn't care enough to check! whatever the reason is it doesn't matter! its just a youtube comment! its about as irrelevant as things can be in this world! so lets move on with our lives now as better people and not call each other stupid for such meaningless things. may the force be with you :)
I don't care what anybody says quite frankly, I think Qui Gon Jinn is worthy of a far more in depth discussion because he's complex. In fact he's literally my favorite Jedi or overall near favorite Jedi in the canon. I just don't buy any of that crap about him being a sith wannabe, a try hard, or any of this nonsense. If we consider the fact that this entire thing called "galactic politics" was a lot more complex than the trivial side we see in Star Wars, then someone looking closely at Qui Gon Jinn can see how much more relatable he would be in today's era. Qui Gon in the novels supposedly had a yellow saber and a green saber for some time. To this I say "So what?" Qui Gon would drink a lot sometimes, he'd get into fights, he helped a bunch of younger Jedi and also owned some slaves a few of which who were trouble makers....and again, even if it's all true what's the big deal? ....And? Who cares? He never gave into anything to do with the Dark Side, especially IMO overall. He found the Dark Jedi and other light side Jedi detestable in several instances not because of their actions but because of.....their personalities. And? I got no problems. Qui Gon found something going on in the order on his home planet, that he felt was off and agreed with Dooku on some points but didn't want Dooku around him. It's because Qui Gon could sense that the whole "mess" of politics going on, was leading down a dark path and the man flat knew Sidious was trouble. If we look at Qui Gon in a real world tint, he kinda did hint to lots of people even folks living in the town that Palpatine etc were not good news. Did he do anything about it? Well to me he did, he warned basically everyone during his travels. But not in a way of, well, time to panic. He just said at least in the novels that he didn't always trust Yoda. Now to me, this makes sense. Yoda is a great wise master but that doesn't mean Yoda is always right. If we look at it objectively, had Qui Gon gotten higher in position and trained Anakin: Anakin would've still gone dark but it wouldn't have ended as badly and the war would have ended a lot sooner in my opinion. Also Qui Gon knew Anakin so well, that he likely would have prevented Anakin from falling entirely to the dark side. This isn't just my opinion there is an awful lot of support out there among fans for saying Qui Gon was both more studied, and had better instincts than a Yoda. This doesn't mean I look on the fiction and think the whole Jedi code or Jedis were wrong. It doesn't mean I believe the Sith were right at all or either side was doing the right thing. It just means I agree with Qui Gon and his pal, that the whole thing had flaws. I think there was so many flaws that they placed Windu on window watch duty most of his life, versus letting him be out in the field kicking ass and meeting people like he belonged. I think there was likely many more flaws than that, but especially for me I thought Qui Gon handled all these messes in brilliant fashion. The man was a legend, not a mistake when I look at canon since he had his ear to the ground and knew what was coming. Obi Wan as wise as he was, didn't know what he spoke of.
Wait a moment. Qui Gon owned slaves? I reckon that’s not the mark of a true good doer. Disagree all you want. Owning slaves is lowly. A true Jedi would never own slaves. Sounds like something a Sith would do.
The Phantom Menace is my personal favourite. And 4th best SW movie in my book. I can't fathom how ridiculous TFA and TLJ were. Some high points (nostalgia, oscar isaac) but the rest is pure reheated trash. I still can't believe it. Long live Qui Gon (and Liam Neeson)
There is nothing confusing about the 2 trilogies and neither is the plot on the Force Awakens or Last Jedi. Sure it wasnt perfect but holy mother of god, the prequels are absolute dogshit of a mess.
Great vid, Thor. Qui-gon, in my opinion, is a very good character and one of my favorite characters along with Dooku. On a side note: I generally like the sequels, but it just seems like they haven't given us anything as creative as the stories Lucas gave us in the prequels(like the story of Qui-Gon). Executed properly, the prequel trilogy could have been a complete masterpiece. That being said, I still enjoy them though.
This supports the theory that Luke assembled his lightsaber with Qui-Gon's Kyber Crystal. Luke and Qui-Gon were both pure Jedi that were guided by nothing but the will of the force, not the council (which didn't even exist when Luke first became a Jedi).
I mean, realistically, what other kyber crystal would Obi-wan have had knowledge of the location of? Logically, Luke would have gone back to tatooine and raided Obi-wan's hut in search of info/resources that he couldn't obtain from Yoda. The only other green saber crystal that might have been available is Yoda's. So it would make perfect sense to me for Luke to have found Qui-gon's saber and used the crystal from it.
In new canon, the colour of the lighsaber is given by the kybercrystal after it bonds with its finder- jedi that excel at physical\practical use of the force gain blue colored crystals, jedi talented in meditation, mind tricks etc get a green one. The colour does not change if a new jedi picks it up\the former owner changes his skillset. I think luke just got a fresh unbond crystal. Since he is shown to mindtrick well in jabbas palace, and overall relies on the forces messages( like that his father still struggles ), i think this is the awnser to his lightsabers colour...
If you haven't already read it, I think you might really enjoy the novel Darth Plagueis. The titular character has much to say about the Jedi that you'd find interesting.
After Qui-Gon, I think Ahsoka was the closest thing to a true Jedi, but (ironically) only after she left the Jedi order. Once she was just an unaffiliated light side force user, she was led by the Force to help the Rebels, but perhaps more importantly (and I partially base this on possible information that we don't have yet) comes across Ezra. I think what may have sparked the "real Jedi" in Ahsoka may have been Barriss Offee's words to the court after Anakin captured her...that the Jedi had lost their way and become defacto agents of the dark side. Misguided as Barriss's way of bringing change may have been, I think people underestimate the effect that those words had on Ahsoka.
I 100% agree with you and the story you mentioned really shows the downfall of the Jedi Order. Barriss was meant to be a healer, and so her involvement during the Clone Wars broke her and made her do terrible things for the right reasons. While Ahsoka, only after turning away from the Jedi, was able to truly embrace the light. (God, I love the Prequel era! So many great stories!)
Exactly, just as a church building is not by necessity a house of God, the Jedi order is not necessarily an adherer of the light. Ashoka and Qui Gon understood that as Jedi, the light was more important than legalism.
Or Barriss Offee may have been spouting BS as a last ditch effort to harm the Jedi and spread discontent. Once she went full-on bad guy, anything she said should be taken with a grain of salt.
Following the will of the force. I think that Luke and Qui-Gon were the only true Jedi. Even master Yoda lost his way. he gray Jedi thing has to stop. Jedi Like Qui-Gon were loving peace keepers. Yes I knoe Luke dipped into the dark side to defeat Vader. But that is the point a true Jedi can use the parts of the force be it dark or light, but follows the will of the force. No gray area. Great video Thor. Love Qui-Gon.
The Jedi was always a light side extremist group, from its very founding just like the dark jedi or later the Sith is the dark side extremist group. That is the reason the Gray Jedi was born who acted much like the original force users that where before the Jedi and Sith, the je'daii order. The je'daii order focused on finding the balance between the dark and the light until the force wars which eneded with a split in the je'daii order and resulted in the birth of the dark jedi later renamed Sith after the enslavement of the Sith species and the Jedi Order after they allied with the Galactic Republic. Thats why Gray Jedi or what you now call true Jedi was born, but true Jedi is a true light side extremist like you see them in the prequels. So its true that Qui Gon was a gray Jedi and not a true Jedi, he believed in balance in the force like the ancient je'daii order.
"I can only protect you, not fight a war for you" seems to me more of an indicator of the limits of Qui-Gon's capabilities/the extent of his mission rather than that the force has whispered in his ear what he should do. Other than that I think you have some really good points!
With regard to QGJ being called, "grey," I only recall the description appearing in some Expanded Universe materials, to the tune of, "*Some called* Qui-Gon a grey Jedi, because he wouldn't follow the Council....." That's as far as it goes for me. What I'd really like to say, is to congratulate you on what may be, in 19 years, the first truly valid critique of the "midi-chlorians" concept I've ever heard! Unlike many self-styled fans, I've never deplored the idea's introduction outright, and I even felt that it made a great deal of sense at the time. But your insight into what it may have symnbolozied about Jedi thinking at the time, particularly as the wrong thing for the Council to focus on, makes just as much sense to the story. That really is a first.
Nick Hentschel The movies never say that midi-chlorians are supposed to be a good thing to focus on. All the people who talk midi-chlorians end up dead or homeless.
He has moved past morality. Morality is a subjective human construct, the universe is not morally wrong when galaxies smash into each other, nor is an earthquake malevolent for killing thousands of people. Things happen and people put a subjective spin on them, either towards good or towards bad, but moving past that duality and following the will of the force, even when it may look like it is to your personal detriment, should be the true way of the Jedi. Qui-Gon may have known or sensed that Anakin will become a great Sith lord, however, the Jedi's job is to ensure that balance is kept, not that the Jedi order prospers. There were thousands of Jedi and just 2 Sith, does that sound like balance prior to the Jedi purge? I don't think so.
I have to agree with retardno002. Morality still falls under am I right or wrong. Qui Gon wasn't that person, he put aside beliefs, for the most part, and went on feeling, and used meditation with the Force to understand and be more in tune with said feelings. In moderns terms, its the person you may or may not know who has a gut feeling and things seem to constantly work out for them.
i wish we could have a film about qui-gon's entire life! he's such an awesome character: depth, complexity, adversity, heartbreak, wisdom, courage. easily be an excellent film.
Thor Skywalker - The force is strong with you! I for one think he's right! You are the Qui-gon Jin of Star Wars TH-camr's! P.S. I'm a little jealous lol! 😆
I think it’s really hard to do because both episode 7 and 8 take place in maybe a week. There’s no time for character growth or even the plot to grow between movies.
I think Kylo’s inner conflict could be a good topic of discussion. He’s the first to be tempted by the light. Personally I think him and Rey are gonna switch sides in IX
I've always felt this way about Qui-Gon. Truthfully, I always had the impression that the real reason Obi-Wan didn't follow in his path even though he seems to have many similar feelings is that he's been told all his life both that he wasn't good enough and no one wanted him and that he needed to shut up and conform. I mean that in the nicest possible way, but he almost washed out of the Jedi Order (through no fault of his own) and at that point I can imagine that experience being traumatic enough to make him desperate to be a "good Jedi". Add to that he took on Anakin immediately after Qui-Gon dies and without even a mourning period, goes straight from conflicted apprentice to a master who needs to look like he knows what he's doing (because training Anakin at all was going against the council, because he was too young to be training Anakin, etc. I can imagine a fear of losing his Padawan because somebody thinks he's doing it wrong). And during the time when he's trying to learn how to, in essence, be a substitute parent and a teacher for a child with issues he's never faced, his only sources of advice are people who will tell him all the wrong things. Qui-Gon was already dead. We see pretty clearly in the movies/shows that Obi-Wan indulges Anakin much more than he should by Jedi standards, that he's more often than not privately in agreement with Anakin but feels he should keep to the standards he's been taught, that he is expected to keep tabs on Anakin and correct his behavior by other more "proper" Jedi long after Anakin has become a Knight.
This was brought up in the EU, but basically since Qui Gon was already a hippie rebel, how does his teenage apprentice Obi Wan Kenobi rebel against that? By being a By-the-Book type.
I definitely agree. It's funny that ever since the new trilogy came out I've found myself coming back to watch retrospectives on the Prequel Trilogy just because there's so much more to explore. Where the core movies failed to delve deeper into the characters and lore the comics, novels, and cartoons fill that gaping hole. Two characters who I am finding myself coming back to in particular is both Qui-gon Jin and Obi-wan Kenobi. I feel that Qui-gon is criminally-underrated and would love to read more stories involding him and padawan Obi-wan is so awesome to me because of what we know that he'll grow into! Awesome video!
You are reading WAAAAAAAY too much into it, Qui-gon went at the personal behest of chancellor Valorum, because he had many times over proven that he was very skilled at negotiating in critical situations. You also seem to forget that just a scene later Qui-gon himself says that he did not sense anything when Obi Wan did and in fact shot him down on the threat. He also couldn't fight a war for Padme because that was not what he was ordered to do, and if he had he would involve the Jedi and therefore the senate who at the time had not yet issued a statement on which side of the conflict to partake in, never mind that Valorum sent him behind the back of the senate, he could protect her but nothing more. Also, you all seem to forget that Qui-gon's second padawan fell to the Dark Side and committed suicide rather than be captured. Also 'true jedi' doesn't mean anything as there is no such thing, what a Jedi is has changed drastically over the millennia, are 'true Jedi' the Jedi Lords and their dynasties that controlled entire planets and would join Lord Hoth's Army of Light against the Brotherhood of Darkness? Or the researchers of the Jeddai order who where forced into becoming warriors by the infinite empire? Or those who joined Revan to fight the Mandalorian Neo crusaders against the orders of the Jedi Council. The Jedi have always been diplomats, warriors, researchers, explorers, medics, watchmen, and some even assassins. Another thing, Qui-gon Jinn spent an extended period with Hego Damask otherwise known as Darth Plagueis, and his supposed 'True Jedi'-ness did not give him any insight on the true nature of Damask. Qui-gon is NOT what the Jedi are supposed to be, but just another look at what the Jedi are. You are also going the wrong way about it, the fact that they couldn't sense the Sith was not a lack of skill or 'favour' with the force, it was a mark of excellence for the Sith in question. It is not a "wow stupid Jedi can't even sense a Sith in the same room as them" but rather "wow this Sith can hide himself even in the presence of the most powerful Jedi".
THANK YOU Finally someone else gets it... although I would argue that Yoda in ESB and Luke at the end of ROTJ as he tosses his saber, are true Jedi as well. True Jedi live in peace and harmony, following the will of the Force, seeking the good of all life, turning from selfishness and death. They use the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack. The prequels would have been better if in Ep 1, the Jedi were scattered around the galaxy, trying to seek justice in their local communities (a la Ghandi) through non-violent resistance and defense. (The lightsaber being a symbol of defense and deflection of laser blasts.) Anyone sentient could come to train to be a Jedi, as the Force is in and through all living things - but those who seek to use this power for their own selfish means would start down the dark path which ultimately destroys them - until they return to self sacrifice for the good of others. Ep 1 should have started with this picture of TRUE Jedi, and Ep 2-3 displaying their downfall as some of them start to join ranks with the Senate, and their powers used now for attack and war. Joining the Senate/Republic should have been clearly shown to be the downfall of the Jedi religion. (This would mirror the story of Jesus, the most perfect human, and then the subsequent downfall of "Christians" as the Catholic church becomes wrapped up in government under Constantine, to be used as a tool of the State...)
Yes... starting the prequel trilogy with the Jedi already tools of the Republic muddies the storytelling of what the Jedi are really supposed to be. They should've started from their own remote Enclaves, such as the one on Dantooine in KOTOR, rather than the massive temple next to the Senate building on metroplanet Coruscant.
I have seen many arguments that Yoda using a light saber is terrible because it goes completely against his peace loving characteristics in the Empire Stikes Back. Now that you say this it makes me realise that it is nonsense, the Yoda we see in the prequels is "young" and slightly naive, it is only after failing to defeat palpatine that he realises that violence is not the answer.
Just finished the clone wars. There are several times that the Republic and Senate threaten to and successfully remove Republic Clone activities. This is in the same context which shows Anakin beginning to develop relentless war tactics as akin to Tarkin's. This removal of the Jedi's role in the clone activities serves two purposes: 1. To prevent them from learning of Order 66 or influencing clones to sympathize with the Jedi 2. (Which your post has enlightened me to) Work to convince the Jedi that their actual duty is to the Republic/ Senate and the war instead of to the force. Palpatine let them get very caught up in the war, then openly reminds them they are peace keepers. The Jedi by this point have already lost their way to the point, that they are eager to defend their right to be apart of military preceding.
The Jedi in the prequels were wholly evil, what with being Generals and killing people in wars. Hell, they even used flamethrowers on sentients! How is that keeping the peace? That's just murder!
Incredible observation! Honestly, completely superb, you have have touched on a subject I've secretly been suspicious of as far back as I remember.... Applause
THANK YOU! The whole Gray Jedi thing is absurd. It’s basically “I want to be a badass warrior monk, but ignore my superiors and the code whenever I feel like it. But I swear I’m not a Sith. Sith are bad, and I swear I’m a good person.” That kind of pride leads to the dark side. I would add to this that I don’t think Qui-Gon had any problem obeying the council for missions and such. Being a true Jedi, he would be eager to lend a hand to people in need when asked, so long as doing so didn’t cause bigger problems.
Bradley Poole Ah But the idea that someone could balance the use of the force and use both the dark and the light side for a greater purpose doesn’t fit your description exactly. They don’t have to be defiant to be grey. Just only do what they believe is correct I. Their heart. Sometimes this requires tough love like when you tell a kid he can’t eat a chocolate bar for dinner. Or that he has to go to bed on time. Or more to the point use a dark side power to achieve a positive goal such as Luke did with force choke in the Jabbas palace. Sometimes being firm and even harnessing darkness is required to maintain balance. When Yin is deficient tonify Yin. When Yang is deficien tonify Yang.
I see what, you are saying, Isaac. However, I do not think there can be a greater purpose than balancing the Force, which is what a true Jedi (using the Light Side) should strive for. Anything else, no matter how grand the vision or just the cause, is a distraction at best and,at worst, a step towards the "might makes right" attitude of the Dark Side. This is a problem, even if it does come in a kind, paternalistic package. (BTW, Light does not necessarily mean nice.) After witnessing the fall of Anakin Skywalker, I'm not convinced that any being's heart can tell the difference between the will of the Force and their own will, unless said being constantly practices self abnegation and self surrender to others. The moment you dedicate yourself to that kind of selflessness, you abandon the Dark side, and with it any possibility of being "gray."
Bradley Poole fair enough you are entitled to your opinion. But I believe that in order to balance you need dark or there will be unbalance naturally just as sure as the sun sets every day. And this trying to maintain balance with only light is impossible and only creates an imbalance in doing so and that’s why Palpatine rose to power and why the Sith keep rising because there is such a huge offset of light throwing off the balance in such a strong way an equally strong darkness arises. When we got to the time of the last Jedi it was Darkness arising and light to counter it.
In respect to Qui Gon. Is something I'm reminded of from KoTOR. When Jolee talks about a Jedi friend of his who had a destiny & that destiny was to fall in to a reactor & blow up a ship as a result of this accident. Basically what might seem incidental in Star Wars, might well be the will of the Force. We just lack the galactic perspective to see how all these incidental things play out.
The main point I took away from Rogue One is that the Force uses sentient beings like toilet paper. The blind dude trusted in the force with his whole being...he followed and used that trust to walk through a storm of laser bolt fire to disable the force field that allowed the attack to be successful...and the second he was successful, the Force left him like a turd in a toilet. Fractional moments later...dead as doo doo. So, yeah, "destiny"...like Charmin.
Qui-Gon Jinn has always been my favourite Jedi!!! And this is how I have always seen him! He was the most pure example of following the Jedi way we are ever given, and it helps to show why being a Jedi would be someone's aspiration. I hadn't heard that people were calling him a "grey" Jedi, but I've never heard anything more ridiculous in my life. Qui-Gon Jinn is possibly the best most accurate follower of the Jedi way.
@TeaAndCroissants same here! Qi gon jinn has also been my favorite Jedi. I believe Grogu could possibly be a whole new era for the Jedi, as he will not only unite with mandalorians, but hopefully put an end to detachment and start a new Jedi legacy. and possibly become another true Jedi like quo gonn and Anakin.
Fully agree with you. Even Yoda himself commends Qui-Gon and even became his apprentice in becoming one with the Force as a force ghost as seen in Revenge of the Sith and even more explicitly in the EU novelization.
tbh he’s my favorite jedi. i’ve seen this one statement floating around the internet that’s something like “the rest of the jedi used the force and commanded it, but qui gon let the force use him”
My interpretation of what a Grey Jedi isn't exactly how most other people would see it. As opposed to whielding both sides of the Force, they seek balance within it. Which sounds like just a normal Jedi, I know. But think of it more as the Father from Mortis. He enbodied not the light side, not the dark side, but the Force itself and therefor the balance of life and death, or light and dark, if you will. I might sound a little confusing or unclear, but that's really only because I'm not really putting that much effort into this. Hopefully if I wanted to put my time into this I could explain it better. Eitherway, I hope you get my gist. May the Force be with you!
I did think that Qui-Gon Jinn was a grey Jedi because in the movies it seems he wasn't in the favor of the council. We only learn later that he was once offered a seat on the council and that he declined. I may have not understood the dialog in the film and be wrong but thats how I took it. Qui-Gonn however still remaines one of my favorite Jedi. Now you explain reasons why my thinking may have been wrong, but that makes Qui-Gon an even better character. Good video and makes you think!
The only hole in your argument is that Qui Gonn uses the Force when he's gambling with Watto. He makes sure that the chance cube lands on Anakin and not Schmi. So in the end, either he doesn't truly trust the Force, or he rejects the Will of the Force to get what he wants.
But its deeper - he also tricks Watto to do a bad bet that destroys him. He's Watto so who cares. But he also kidnaps Anakin ONLY because he has high midichlors - he never really cares for him. One reason I think he died - he needed to atone for what he did. He was better than Yoda but hardly a true Jedi in any real sense.
@@darkthorpocomicknight7891 true jedi were the Je-di and they were grey not light side only. Qui-gon was much closer than Yoda. Yoda was not extreme light side either but was blinded by his belief in one side vs another.
The Jedi died through Windu's hubris. I'm not sure that they are reborn either after the sequel trilogy, though of course the Sith are at least dead as an Order.
Wow, I 100% agree with you! one of the things I love about the prequels is how they touch more on just good vs evil, which was majority of the theme for the originals. It shows that even in society we can all get lost, and sometimes the maverick is the one sticking too the actual moral code that has been overlooked by everyone else. It shows just how far greed and corruption can sneak into the hearts of the most noble. I do Believe the prophecy always intended for Anakin to go down the path that he did, think of the great flood. Ofcourse that was a disaster but it was something that cleansed the land of the corrupt, despite it being a tragic event.
Qui-Gon was wider and had more knowledge of the force than Yoda and the council. It was Qui-Gon who learned the way to become a force ghost and taught Yoda how to become one after death. The order was hung up on dogmatic rules and became an arm of the corrupt government and was arrogant.
Derek Richardson, I find it doubtful that any Jedi could have as much knowledge as Yoda, given his vastly superior lifespan. But Qui-Gon certainly could have focused his research better than Yoda over a shorter period of time to learn some things that Yoda never did.
@@AV57 Long life does not equal perfect knowledge nor wisdom. Yoda was also blinded and he was unsure of himself a lot of times. He was either ignorant or un-curious about deeper aspects of the force than Qui-Gon. That much is evident.
Kimmy Queen, it was never suggested that longevity=perfect knowledge. It was only pointed out that Yoda lived to 896 years of age. Qui-Gonn lived to 32 years of age. I don’t think it’s a risk to assume that someone who lived 28 times longer than someone else would eventually accumulate more total knowledge. I’m not saying Yoda knew everything that Qui-Gonn knew. I’m just pointing out the obvious edge Yoda had over every human.
@@AV57 "I find it doubtful that any Jedi could have as much knowledge as Yoda, given his vastly superior lifespan." This statement suggested to me that you do believe that the longer a person lives means they by default know more than those of lesser age and you actually say it in your second post. It is ok if you believe that, however considering his blindness to the dark side of the Force , his confusion and lack of knowledge on speaking after dying, that is simply not true. I acknowledge that he DOES know a lot, but he doesn't know everything or more than others on many issues and disciplines. Actually Qui Gon was around 60 years old. His intimacy with the Force, may have granted him knowledge and abilities that clearly another, no matter how old, but lacked such intimacy, did not have.
I agree with everything (almost) that you said. It was apparent to me from the beginning that he wasn't rebelling against the Council, but following the will of the Force, and he says as much through the film. Interesting parallels here with some mystical teachings here on planet Earth.
While I don't disagree with the conclusion of him being a true Jedi, there are a couple of important points I think need to be considered. Following the Will of the Force and maintaining balance was not the really the true purpose of the Jedi. It was more their methodology and goals for personal self control. As an order, they were "the guardians of peace in the Galaxy", as mentioned more than once. As such, negotiating treaties was perfectly within their purview, and there is a lot of long-standing lore of them doing that throughout history. What is slightly less a part of their history, as you bring up, is single-mindedly serving the Republic. They were (nearly) universally valued negotiators in disputes because they were known for being fair and impartial. It's true that they worked with the Republic for millenia, but it didn't start with them SERVING the Republic. In fact, at one point they had to convince the Republic to join them to take on the Sith Empire. As to the Council losing the ability to use the Force because they were straying from Jedi ideals, I don't think that's why they had a problem. One of the abilities attributed to Palpatine was a version of Battle Meditation that allowed him to create a foggy barrier within the Force around him, while similarly linking his minions to his will. The reason that the Jedi couldn't recognize that he was a Sith was because of the shroud he created (I forget if it was Yoda or Obi Wan who mentioned it in the prequels). I do think most of the Jedi were distracted and complacent. This is why only Yoda felt the ripples of Anakin's failures or Order 66. One of those distractions was certainly a devotion to the Republic, and also affection for their clone counterparts in the field.
Thor that was very compelling video, and it has got me wondering why the council could not see what they had become. Also I wonder could you call the councils position that Qui Gon was being defiant to the council’s will and not just being adherent to the force, a symptom of their attachment to having power in a council seat.
I do think you're on to something, that they had let being on the council go to their head a bit. In RotS it was considered a very big deal that Anakin was being added to the council (and he was the youngest ever) so it's very possible the vanity of the position added to the demise of the most powerful Jedi of the time.
The council had become too bureaucratic and lost the introspective insight to see that they had lost their way. They had an agenda and so any amount of meditation couldn't reveal their mistakes when they were so adamant that they were not just correct but unquestionably correct. This is why the prophesy to bring balance to the force wasn't just to stop the Sith as the council assumed, it was to destroy both institutions and start from the ground up (this has been undone by the Disney sequels squandering their opportunities).
He was what the Jedi were supposed to be. Luke follows in his path. Luke also defies the "council" (what's left of it) when he insists Vader can be saved. He believes in Anakin like Qui-Gon did.
Already at work so wont be able to read and responeld to comments till later. Nevertheless, hope you enjoy the video that has nothing to do with controversy or our shattered fandom.
Thor Skywalker the fandom isn't shattered, that's just a trick from the dark side clouding our judgement. Probably shouldn't have built our temple over a sith temple.
It does, though. Adherence to the will of the force, as he understood it, is what made Qui-Gon Jinn a true Jedi. Now, Snoke decides who a who Jedi is, through bland dialogue in The Last Jedi.
I agree, because Oui-Gon does care about others....in the same way Luke does. Both Yoda and Ben wanted Luke to defeat his father, not save him. The whole point of Star Wars is that the Jedi code is flawed. It is the same reason I believe Kylo is unredeemable....he murdered his father in cold blood and does not regret it for a single moment. I really hate the concept of the gray Jedi....it's just fan boys who like the idea of using dark side powers and still being a Jedi.....they play far too much of Knights of the Old Republic. It's not cool, its not edge...it's lazy writing. It was the thing that I hated about the Star Wars Legacy comic series. Cade Skywalker is a gray Jedi....because reason. He keeps telling everyone that is in neither Jedi or Sith….he does his own thing.....but in the end he always does what is right. And the writer has his healing power as a dark side power....why, it makes no sense, except that every time he uses it he drifts toward the dark side....so that's why he's a gray Jedi...healing people tempts him to the dark side?!!! The writer keeps trying to show us that he is gray, and suggests he doesn't care about anything...it's not edgy, it's not cool, it's force nihilism and it comes off as a cheap storyline at best....he doe not have a defining moment like Kylo Ren does, or Vader does, or Luke....trying to make him edge, and gray makes him a very bland character. There is a scene where he threatens to kill himself if Luke doesn't leave him alone....it was just sad and pathetic....I didn't buy it for a single moment. Nihilism. And I think that is the furthers thing from what the force is, and that is what Lucas has always been trying to tell use. Even his new concept about the Whills feels to me, like Lucas is trying to place "the force" and all life in the galaxy under threat, and Luke and his children would have to face the Whills and stop them from exterminating all like in the galaxy, and destroying "the force." I actually like this idea.
Nice video; thanks! This view does add a nice new layer to my understanding of all the Star Wars films.
I love that we have a video looking at something other than the drama of star wars vs our world stuff like this let's me escape bad into the universe of star wars better than that drama
Qui-Gon is honestly the most underrated prequel character. I think people forget he was even the one who learned how to come back as a force ghost.
Right? Like if that doesnt make him one of the MVJ's idk what would
People who didn't watch Clone Wars animated show probably don't know it ever happened
@@HellShoot what do you mean, Yoda tells obi wan about it at the end of episode 3?
@@ubivermiscerritulus195 I don't remember him saying Qui-Gon was the first, but I haven't watched in a while
@@HellShoot he just said he found the secret to immortality and could teach them the method or something along those lines. It's been a little while for me to but I've never seen the clone wars and always knew it was quigon who discovered the method.
"Qui Gon isn't a grey Jedi. He is the purest form of Jedi. The Council have lost their way, not Jinn."
Fair point. Good video.
Yet he single handedly destroyed the jedi order.
@@Stego1819 um, no?
@@TommyTombstone He desperately wanted Anakin to be trained while all the others disagreed ... and where correct in the end.
The jedi always wanted to swrve the force. They thought the force wants peace and they saw the republic as the best state to be able to fulfill that.
@@Stego1819 he wanted the Chosen One to be trained. That WAS the Will of the Force. And Anakin fulfilled his prophecy in killing Sidious. (Ignore Disney)
Had Anakin not been trained, Palpatine would have taken a different apprentice, likely with less suspicion from the Jedi Council, and as such might never have been maimed during his standoff with Mace Windu.
Or he would have taken Anakin himself, instead of the Jedi, and the only course of action there is the Sith Rule of Two: Anakin kills Palpatine not to restore balance, but to take his place as the rightful Sith Master.
Qui-Gonn insisting that the Jedi train Anakin was the only course of action that could be taken to stop Sidious, or an apprentice of his, from ruling the galaxy indefinitely.
@@TommyTombstone And if Anakin would have never cut Maces arm if. Mace would have killed Sidious and same result.
The sith had no clue Anakin existed until Plagueis heard so from a jedi.
Also yes Anakin was the chosen one but was the empire existing truly worth the price? Probably not considering that the galactic civil war lasted for around 20 years.
His ability to return from the netherworld of the Force was due to the fact that...
He had a particular set of skills.
Mr Taken was the best part of the otherwise awful Ep 1
Skills that he has aquired
oot Id say the light saber duel wasn’t too bad either.
@steve sabroe Seriously? You think Phantom Menace is as good as a New Hope? The movie that had Jar Jar, trade negotiations, Jar Jar, senate debates, Jar Jar, midi-chlorians, and Jar-Jar is as good as the original Star Wars?
@@oot007 Podracing though...
Qui gon jinn "I must carry out the wills of the force and keep balance"
Yoda "Destroy the Sith we must"
I mean, George Lucas has said that balance to the Force is entirely upset by Dark Side users, so from that point of view, Yoda was right.
@@TommyTombstone yea
@@TommyTombstone The force is upset by the SITH, dark side users in general may or may not unbalance based on personal choices (IE there are many books where a slave or widow uses the dark side to free themselves or get revenge without ever going full Palpatine evil afterwards). Granted I have NO idea what the new cannon is regarding the Sith and their place in the force, but I had always seen them as a sort of force tumor that hungrily consumes everything around it while a general dark sider may actually BRING balance by upsetting worse large scale atrocities with a few specific murders or a single well executed assassination without ever even realizing it, and may or may not fully fall to "dark side addiction" afterwards.
@@BertoxolusThePuzzled I'm just telling you what GL said, believe what you want
@@BertoxolusThePuzzled Who care what the new canon have to say anyway?
Don't forget about his ultimate form Qui Gon Gym
Nero his New Years resolution form
Qui gon jim
Michael letteri great timing lmao
Jar Jar Benchpress wants to know your location
How about Qui-Quan Chi?
You say Qui Gon was a True Jedi, but I didn't see him pick up 1 Lego stud the whole movie!
lol, a fan of the Star Wars Lego games I take it?
Thor Skywalker I played the crap out of that first Lego Star Wars game when I was younger. In my PS2 days
I've played them all in my day.... and even though I wasn't a huge fan of the movie, I'm a little sad we didn't get a Last Jedi Lego game
The force is strong with this one
Oh Yeah, 1-66th like :D
TH-cam getting real cheeky with these back to back ads.
@donnyfrom hackney 🤣
This is getting out of hand: now there are two of them!
@@klaatubaradanikto2563 us to TH-cam :are you brain dead
As much as people have eventually rejected Phantom Menace as a good movie, for me, most of the movie is amazingly well done. Quigon is my favorite star wars character and I also love the first experience of the retro universe of star wars. The corridors of the ships, the way the light sabers looked, etc. Still love this film
Same.
@Ivan Quiles funny because a lot of TH-cam reviewers say that was one of the best scenes like are you all smoking crack
How can you hate podracing!? What are you some kind of communist? 😝
The phantom menace, and the whole trilogy for that matter, could have been great of anakin was cast better and was older. Could have had a whole Riggs and Murtaugh type situation with him and Obi Wan for a few movies before the falling out
@@jonholland9042 yeah, no. I beg to differ. It's star wars not a lethal weapon type movie!
for me, Gui Gon is one of the best, if not the best thing Episode 1 bring to us, not including the awesome Darth Maul, of course. I wolud like to see him in future movies, but saddly, this will never happen...
If only we got a prequel to the phantom menace, that followed the story of Dooku.
And yet Darth Maul shows up in Solo. You just can't keep a good Sith down forever.
Maybe we'll see a Maul Vs Obi Wan part 2, in the long awaited Kenobi flick
xXdrake_oneXx I doubt it. They already had it happen in Star Wars Rebels... it ended in an unexpected way.
We got Qui Gons return in the Clone Wars. I’m satisfied with that because I don’t want Disney to screw up his character
The genius of the prequels is something people are finally starting to realise. The sequel trilogy was meant to take the prequels and the original trilogy to next levels. But all they did was completely miss what star wars or even what a movie is supposed to be.
Those movies were hard to watch at time because people was expecting only big fights and explosions
Totally agree with this. I am one of those strange people that loved the Prequels, even with some of their shortcomings.
I remember reading that Disney wanted to stray away from the prequels as much as possible when they bought Lucasfilm, which is a big insult to Star Wars. When they bought the franchise, they bought ALL of it! There's so many great things the prequels gave us: The Jedi Order, More planets, A deeper understanding of the force.
Hanzo Hattori I KNEW the prequels were great from the very beginning. Only morons misjudged them.
@@Mr.Honest247 facts
After watching this video it makes me truly realize how bad they screwed up The Force Awakens & The Last Jedi. So much lost potential.
None of this was actually shown in the movies, we had to rely on supplemental materials and extended universe such as the excelent animated series to even begin to form this kind of meaning. The prequels were schlock on release and now only with nearly two decades of insight and the contributions of many other artists are we finding meaning in them.
Torque Sadly I KNEW the prequels were great from the very beginning. Only morons misjudged them.
I had those same thoughts while watching this one. I refuse to ever watch ep. 9. It's beyond redemption.
@@joeblack1754 i got that feeling from the force awakens and havent been back.
@@GodOfPlague I almost walked out of the theater 20 minutes into TLJ, but I wanted to stay and see how bad the train wreck was. There isn't a single other reason to watch TLJ. It makes TFA look like a decent movie, which is saying A LOT!
“They now serve at the whim of the Supreme Chancellor and The Senate.”
*I am the Senate!*
Anyone back here after the Dave Filoni Qui-Gon analysis?
where can I find that?
@@CliffTooth it’s a great video here th-cam.com/video/d0tGBCCE0lc/w-d-xo.html
Filonis bullshit should be ignored. His views are treated as fact instead of opinion. Not good.
YES
Almost tempted to re-watch Episode 1 to see it with fresh eyes now. Totally on board with Windu being forsaken by the force.
@Weston Meyer Lol true... but Windu was the only guy who could defeat Sidious. Even Yoda ran away with his tail between his legs. Windu could have destroy the Sith and the greatest war criminal in the history of the galaxy, save the Republic, and crush the Empire in its infancy and become the greatest hero ever. If only mopey Anakin didn't intervene.
worth rewatching.
Anton Hallergren It was confirmed by Lucas that Windu beat Palpatine.
@@victorbeauregarde1502 By letting him think he'd won. It was the final test for Anakin.
@@CrabTastingMan and yet he was blind to Anakin falling and how his desire to destroy Sideous would push him over the edge. Windu may have defeated Sideous but his philosophy and actions meant he defeated himself too.
To me Qui-Gon always seemed to be a wise character and his devotion to the force is not just the thing that makes him a true jedi but the way he handles talking or teaching both Obi-Wan and Anakin. He should be regarded as a true jedi not only because of his dedication but think of the possibility that what if he didn't die in the Phantom Menace.
He would be one of the more influential characters and possibly a fan favorite considered he had some good moments. Plus how much more powerful could he have become if he lived longer. I think Anakin's fall to the dark side would be more convincing of Qui-Gon's death happened later and the jedi council being at odds with Qui-Gon would give as sense of corruption more to the point than just simply being part of the republic. Think as the second film would go on and maybe Qui-Gon's teachings may be misinterpreted by the young Anakin and Palpatine would confuse things further but all pointing to the jedi being evil. If Qui-Gon was killed in the second or 3rd film especially in a battle that would seem to pit the jedi council against Qui-Gon or an event that seemed conspired, Anakin could easily fall to the dark side afterwards being that Palpatine's deception would be more effective and of course with can have the Mace Windu VS Palpatine play out as it did after the death of Qui-Gon as Palpatine could effectively deceive Anakin into believing his master was killed by the jedi who are now conspiring to take over the republic.
Didn't he basically do that with Dooku? Make him think that the Jedi were responsible for the death Qui Gon who was is former Padawan.
I'm glad you made this. I be been throwing this argument around since 2003. Now I can just share a video.
I've always wondered how Anakin would have turned out if Qui-Gon didnt die and went on to train him.
Same.
@Trujillo 2020 Yes obi wan did his best but he clearly wasn't ready to take on an apprentice.
Me too Qui gon has always been one of my favourites think he could’ve handled anakin where perhaps obi one couldn’t. Although I also think mace windu may have been the idea choice to teach anakin both the light and dark side of the force for if he is the chosen one he would’ve needed to understand both full to bring a balance to them.
SaintLukas Gaming windup was interesting in that he embraced his rage during combat as I understand, but he still was disconnected from the force perhaps more so than others.
@@Strawhat_Kal The Point about Obi Wan and Annakins Relationship was already statet by Obi himself "Brothers".... But what Annakin needed was no Brother he needed a Father. ^^
In my opinion, both Clone Wars Series Anakin, and Qui-Gon Jinn are true Jedi. How can a Jedi remain true to the will of the force, if they are bound by the dictates of a council, that is bound by the law of the republic senate? Yoda and Mace Windu were the casualties of that bureaucratic mess. If 1 Jedi saw through the crap layered atop the will of the force by the council and the republic, it was Anakin. His problem was that he didn't have the patience to deal with the anger he generated at that layer of bureaucracy and lies, nor the political authority to change it.
Darth Vader is what you get, when you take a true Jedi, and stack political corruption and dogmatic rule in the way of their urge to serve the will of the force. Anakin built Dart Vader to deal with the realities he faced at the time. Vader was a coping mechanism, and Anakin's one true weakness. His secrets were the weakness of the council.
To me, this is why Vader, Anakin, and Obi-Wan have held up as characters for so long. They are very sad, cautionary stories that are completely translatable to the lives of everyday people.
Harold White
Well said. Which makes Anakin all the more relatable. With the exception of killing all the young Jedi. I still say they should retcon the shit out of that. Had they omitted that, or eluded to allowing them to secretly escape, it would have mad the end of ROTS so much better. He's angry and twisted at the end, but not a complete monster then. Which would have shown him to be much more of his own character as well then, rather than constantly being led and dictated to and manipulated by others continuously. This is where the writing in the prequels failed the character of Vader.
Read the novelization of ROTS. I agree that including the slaughter of the younglings makes Vader a very problematic character to allow the full redemption of, but the novel provides a bit more insight to how Anakin was dealing with that task. It does, without justifying it, show you how he was able to go through with it. With hindsight, Matthew Stover, the ROTS author, realized he had to provide the character of Anakin/Vader some sort of conflict when describing how Anakin felt during that particular scene, I feel.
Anakin was never a Jedi, not even close. He was always an evil motherfucker.
No, he was a jedi that was never fully allowed to tap in to his potential, and never fully trained to let go of his attachments. Those 2 things, however, are very intertwined. His attachments helped him draw power from the force but the jedi council had its own long standing attachment to its dogmatic rules. If their mission was to serve the will of the force, how were they to know whether or not their own rules could get in the way/ It seems like anything straying outside that dogma was widely considered a path to the dark side.
Skywalker gained power from his attachments and lost power when he tried to keep his emotions in check. His battle with Count Dooku is a perfect example. A simple taunt from Dooku was all it took to break Skywalker's concentration, from handing Dooku an ass whipping, to falling behind in the duel, do to the fear of what would happen if he fully let go.
Seriously. ROTS novelization really gets deep into Anakin's psychological struggle with the balance between following the thread of the force, and following the dictates of the council. I suggest it to anyone. It really shed light on his motivations and truly paints a tragic picture of Anakin and his fate. For a science-fiction fantasy aimed at young adults, it's seriously heavy.
I thought it's insinuated that he kidnapped them and turned them into Inquisitors.
Don't forget that Jar Jar Binks is the Sith Lord.
That's what happens when you let focus groups take over from the actual writer.
Where the fuck is this stupid shit coming from? If it's not the in the FUCKING MOVIE then it DOESN'T FUCKING COUNT.
@@AzazelZaphorOmega There's a whole video based mostly on the movie about how jar jar binks was the phantom menace.
@@Bonekinz That doesn't make it a fact lol. In fact, there nothing in the movies to back this up other than fan interpretations or speculations. I mean, its not any more etude than the fan theory that most the kids in Rugrats are dead or were aborted and the whole story takes place in Tommy's head. OR that Harry never left the stairwell and the books are relay him juts coping with his terrible life. At the end of the day, there's noting canonical to back this kind of stuff up...Just pure speculation.
@@AzazelZaphorOmega Just a quick FYI not taking a stance. Jar Jar's real fate was just released in a new canon book. He is basically a street performer with nothing else. It's actually kind of sad.
The reason I always liked him was that he saw value in EVERYONE - including Jar Jar Binks. Obi-Wan didn’t learn this lesson from him unfortunately and ended up too rigid. A great Jedi nonetheless, but too code obsessed at the cost of seeing the value or even differences in people.
Obi Wan saw what qui gons lack of rigidity earned him. Its natural he'd become more (pardon the phrase) conservative. Especially if he is tasked with a padawan of his own right after
And especially- especially if it meant a better chance of being on the council someday. Something that was not granted to the (again pardon the phrase) more liberal Jinn
Qui Gon Jinn was the only Jedi in Canon who followed and carried out the WILL of the Force not the WILL of a Government
Dooku to an extent was the same way of thinking. He got super pissed when Qui Gon got killed by doing the Gov'ts work. SO much so he went and created a Civil war with the help of a sith and other things lol.
great job man good to hear another person who understands qui gon
So Qui Gon was wiser than the grandmaster himself, Yoda?
Of course. Jinn wanted to balance the force. He states it numerous times. Yoda stated: "Destroy the Sith, we must.". Those are two completely different things. The prequel "Jedi" don't want balance, they want control. They wanted their ideaology to be the only one. Jinn doesn't see a light and a dark side. Those are labels used to establish ideaologies. What he sees is the Force. One entity that guides all.
Yoda was a powerful force user, but was a grandmaster of a flawed religion and likely a cog that resulted in their destruction.
Mace Windu was worse. Forsaken by the Force. He lost all ability to sense the force at all, was blind to the councils hubris and turned the Jedi into diplomats and war leaders. Neither are Jedi. He only broke his "code" to kill Palapatine, which was the catalyst for Anakins betrayal. He stopped Mace simply because he was following the template Mace set out, which was clearly flawed and was the final step to Anakins fall.
@@gameswithtoasty3246 destroy the sith we must...
Only a sith deals in absolutes...
Well yeah yoda has a ketamine addiction
@alvi syahri Luke wasn't all good though. That is the point. Luke BECAME a true Jedi when he acknowledged he had darkness in him during the final fight. Luke was never confined to rigid code of the Jedi Order. Anakin is a mirror in that he had to accept that the light was in him and embrace it.
The Jedi Order were not true Jedi. They had warped the concept. Obi Wan and Yoda post Order 66 are completely different to their PT selves. They left the "order" and became what Jedi should be.
@@gameswithtoasty3246 Yes. We all have darkness and light in us. It is we who choose the direction we go. We have to acknowledge our weaknesses before we can rise above them.
That was a beautiful symphony of logic and reason. Thank you bro
If Qui Gon had trained Anakin, Anakin would have been ready to accept his role as the chosen one when he went to Mortis, thus bringing balance to the force years earlier than he did when he killed the emperor. Great video!
I think that arc has a totally different take on the meaning of balance. In the films and George Lucas' statements it clearly means destroying the Sith, but mortis suggests it means controlling both sides of hte Force. I think filoni got confused.
Where is fortis?
Phil Osopher you got it backwards, the imbalance came from the fact there were only ever 1 or 2 with and a hand full of dark side users for so long while there were many thousands of Jedi in the galaxy.
So bringing balance to the force was not killing the emperor.....it was killing nearly all the Jedi.
At the start of the 1st film there are 2 Sith and 2 Jedi. Balance, between the deaths of Palpatine and Anikin and Luke’s new Jedi order there is again an imbalance.
The force acted again to bring balance by destroying most of the new Jedi and creating new dark side users
But! Luke cut him self off from the force, thus creating an imbalance once again. And as Snoke says the growing strength of the dark side led to a matching strength in the light side. Not Luke as expected but a nobody from nowhere who’s only merit is a desire to know her place and be shown it. A perfect vessel for the force to counter the rising dark side.
The force doesn’t care about the emperors cruel regime, the force is not a person wrapped up in ideas like mercy or revenge or good and bad. It is a force, the force and its will is balance, with no concern for right and wrong.
@DrewLSsix How could he get it backwards when George Lucas himself stated that Anakin fulfilled the prophecy when he killed the Emperor? Are you saying that the creator of the Star Wars universe is wrong when it comes to understanding his own creation?
Numbers don't mean anything when it comes to balance in the Force. So what that there were thousands of Jedi in the galaxy and 2 Sith? Those Sith destroyed the Jedi and managed to rule the galaxy. The Force isn't divided between Light and Dark, Jedi and Sith. There is the Force which is within all living things. The dark side of the Force is the dark impulses: anger, fear, aggression. Too much of this in the galaxy, and there is an imbalance. This is what the Sith brought about with the Empire. You know when you use the Force correctly by being calm and at peace with yourself.
The will of the Force is to create balance, not imbalance. It creates peace and harmony, not death and destruction. That means that the Dark Side must be either extinguished or at the very least brought to heel. It's just like the balance in nature: you don't allow disease and destruction to destroy the plants and animals. It must be either sequestered to whither away and die or to be destroyed utterly. That's why Jedi profess not to kill prisoners. It's the will of the Force.
There's a great video somewhere that puts forward the theory that Anakin was doomed to fail because he was scared of death. Qui Gon probably would not have made a difference. Anakin's fear of death of his loved ones is a constant in all three prequels, and the video mentions that it was one of the reasons he was too old to train. That fear needed to be erased to become a Jedi. But it was too late. Worth looking up the video-made a lot of sense to me:)
0:58 they now serve at the whim of the supreme chancellor and the Senate.
What's the difference between the 2
Ender Heroes, I read this commend at same time I heard it in the video. I suppose when a Supreme Chancellor becomes corrupted the Senate could still stand - or said Chancellor could topple the Senate and entire Republic to create an Empire. Thus, “This is how liberty dies. With thunderous applause.” - Padme.
It’s not a literal comment...
“I am the Senate.” -Sidious, Episode III
before emergency powers senate in control after emergency powers chancellor in control
All of you clearly aren't prequel memers
@Ender Heroes Clearly these are not people of culture- not even knowing the best prequel Star Wars line.
Nice 🙂
This is the sort of Fan Elaborations on these stories that I really enjoy, it deepens the story for me.
I actually like Qui-Gon too 😂 even though people thought he was "boring".
He was great!
Boring???
I have never heard anyone say that about Ginn. He was a badass😎😎😎
I freaking love Qui-Gon! He was the best part of TPM for me!
Yeah Qui-Gon was a really interesting guy in Star Wars. And in the book: "Star Wars: Master and Apprentice" you can read exactly why Qui-Gon did not want to join the Jedi council.
Obi Wan should have followed Qui Gon's teachings after his death. It was the will of the force that made Obi Wan a jedi and placed him with Qui Gon after the counsel denied Obi Wan to become a padawan.
but he did follow the will of the force (he just don't knew it). At the end Anakin fulfilled his purpose in the prophecy at destroying both the Jedi order and Sidius, bringing balance to the force and a new era of renewal
I believe that Qui-Gon Jinn is a true Jedi in all aspects
Great video Thor, I completely agree with you, never really understood why some labelled him as a grey Jedi, Qui Gon always felt like a proper Jedi to me, not misguided like most of the Jedi of the prequel era.
Him being labeled a gray Jedi has always been one of those things that bothers me as well. I think Lucas' intent with the character was to always show what a Jedi in its truest form would be like.
This is why I say that the true ending of Star Wars was return of the Jedi. Force awakens doesn't count to me anymore
ClandestineOstrich OFFICIAL L2 ENGLISH
kinglionheart450, I totally agree
Luke Skywalker was still right when he said, "It's time for the Jedi to end."
You've seen the reasons displayed in this video.
And this is why The godfather part 2 is the true ending of the series.
They decanonized Expanded Universe for this shit?
The will of the force clearly cannot be defined as light and dark. The force is just the force. If you remove the prism of light and dark, you are just left with the force. That is why people label Jedi who follow the will of the force as 'grey'. They are still looking through the prism of light vs dark instead of seeing the bigger picture, and being unable to understand the actions of these types of Jedi. By the very definition of 'grey Jedi', Qui-Gon Jinn is a 'grey Jedi' himself.(now before you say "buh muh dark side strain!" When you are angry, you tend to push harder, run faster, hit harder, and push yourself further without realising it. The Sith are doing it to themselves. The push their force abilities Beyond but they're normally capable of through anger and hatred, causing a strain and break down of their body's. Basically they're pulling a muscle. You see Jedi like Yoda who spent decades using their for decades strengthening them, and more powerful then most Sith Lords.) Qui-Gon Jinn follows the will of the force regardless of the sides. He at one point was consumed by grief and used the 'dark side'. He defeated his dark side allowing him to understand the dark side of himself. He achieved balance. Luke managed to achieve balance another way without falling to his darker nature, allowing him to also follow the will of the force aka becoming 'grey'. Those who say that grey Jedi walk the line between the dark and the light are not looking at the bigger picture and seeing that it is not about the dark side of the force or the light side of the force its just the force. If we were talking in the Forum entities. The Jedi Council and the Sith Lords view the force as two separate entities. In reality the force is only one entity, and is ultimately up to the force user of how they utilize and serve the force. The Sith use the force while indulging their dark desire for power, control, superiority and greed. While the Jedi order refuses any morally repugnant desires or selfish ambitions and call it the light. In the end the force is the force. Neither dark nor light.
Great post. And apperantly following this 'will' means not helping bloody slaves... seriously fuck Qui-gon.
Qui Gon is not grey. The dark side is unnatural, a manipulation and corruption of the force by the dark side user. A true Jedi allows the light to guide their action. There is the will of the force and it is natural and clean. A grey Jedi, by using both light and the corruption of the dark side, does not follow the will of the force
@@scylla019 what... dark and light side both extremes of the force. And 'allowing' force to guide you means letting slavery exist in outer rim for thousands of years.
Originally, Lucas did describe the Force as having two distinct sides, the Ashla and the Bogan, Light and Dark. IIRC, the two sides were supposed to be separate aspects from each other, with the overarching concept of ''The Force'' used to keep them balanced.
@@berilsevvalbekret772 To say the Jedi must stop crime activity in the whole galaxy is to say ISIS should apply their rules in USA. The jedi follow the force. Not the right thing to do, not the Republic. They are space monks, the force has chosen them to live that lifestyle and that's why they become part of the order after months of being born. They must protect the galaxy from the dark side, which is the result of an unwise way of using force sensitivity that does lead to destruction in the galaxy due to all the ambition, greed and anger dark force users get. The Jedi fucked up from the moment they let the Republic use them.
Qui Gon Jinn is always and will always be my favorite Jedi.
Ugh, there was more Force mythos in this 7.50 minute video than the 6 hours of new Star Wars Episodes. What went wrong?
Because Disney does not care for Star Wars.
Shameless self-congratulation because Disney did an Obama sized bail out for Lucas Arts.
We watched them destroy the Empire and give ancient finesse weapons hand guards. Had to deal with ludacris review boosting and the most boring script out of all canon and mainstream.
The only thing missing is a gender confused jedi and an emo rage baby sith.
Inb4 fuck im too late
Disney executives aren't Star Wars fans. Disney hates Star Wars & is doing everything to destroy it.
Apparently the only requirements for making SW movies now is:
A)have a vagina
B)crappy Sundance film Festival credentials
C)read three SW books
😔
This is how you destroy a franchise legacy.
aww man , i agree completely. Qui Gon was the best , i wish we couldve had more of him in the films. Liam Neeson was fantastic.
Great Video! I really enjoyed how you elaborated on Qui-Gon doing what he believed to be the will of the force! I think that a good showpoint of this (intentional or not although I believe it is intentional) is the scene where we is waiting for the shield to go down to confront Maul, he is very calm and does not appear to be afraid because he knows that what happens will be the will of the force and will happen to maintain balance within the force. Seeing that this leads to Obi-Wan training Anikin and Anikin killing or causing the death of almost all the jedi, bringing balance between the light and the dark.
Absolutely love this. This shifting of viewpoint on Qui-Gon’s character offers both a true interpretation of his values and also retains his originality of viewpoint compared to the rest of the Order. Well done thoughtful piece
I truly believe that Qui- Gon was the most powerful Jedi and true Jedi n he's very underrated he is star wars even in his short part of the saga
Not the most powerful. He is the wisest of them all.
Star Wars ends after Episode 6. Change my mind.
Yes, but there is so much that happened to bring us up to that point... which essentially begs the question: What ignited the war between the Jedi & the Sith in the first place ? Do you accept the Jedi lies ? Remember that history is always told by the victors. You've only ever seen & heard one perspective. Please commune with the force so that you may discover the truth.
1 more episode of the sequel trilogy to go, who knows? maybe 3rd times the charm?
He said "change his mind," but I don't think he even read what I wrote, which makes his challenge disingenuous because he doesn't even respond if we succeeded or failed to change his mind & why.
I think his low IQ brain literally exploded when I simultaneously agreed & disagreed with him...
He was like HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE ??? ...Well young padawan, let me put it in more simple terms that your tiny brain can digest: As was told in the Matrix: *Every Beginning has an End.* So while yes, I agree that we've seen the END of Stars Wars, I honestly believe we've never seen the Beginning. The whole Star Wars universe really begs the question: What ignited the war between the Sith and the Jedi in the first place ? What led to the creation of the first Jedi Council ? I personally believe that the entire Star Wars universe is a historical fabrication by the Jedi: Lies & propaganda. I think the historical TRUTH of what really happened is far more interesting.
now now, no need to insult someone for not replying. what if he got hit by a car the next day and is still in a coma somewhere in a hospital? while the odds of that are low, we don't know?
maybe he got convinced by your comment but felt too ashamed to reply so he just decided to disappear back into the endless mist of the internet. (the introvert technique)
or maybe he just doesn't know how to use youtube properly and posted the comment with no idea that notifications is a thing? or he doesn't care enough to check!
whatever the reason is it doesn't matter! its just a youtube comment! its about as irrelevant as things can be in this world! so lets move on with our lives now as better people and not call each other stupid for such meaningless things. may the force be with you :)
I don't care what anybody says quite frankly, I think Qui Gon Jinn is worthy of a far more in depth discussion because he's complex. In fact he's literally my favorite Jedi or overall near favorite Jedi in the canon.
I just don't buy any of that crap about him being a sith wannabe, a try hard, or any of this nonsense.
If we consider the fact that this entire thing called "galactic politics" was a lot more complex than the trivial side we see in Star Wars, then someone looking closely at Qui Gon Jinn can see how much more relatable he would be in today's era.
Qui Gon in the novels supposedly had a yellow saber and a green saber for some time. To this I say "So what?"
Qui Gon would drink a lot sometimes, he'd get into fights, he helped a bunch of younger Jedi and also owned some slaves a few of which who were trouble makers....and again, even if it's all true what's the big deal? ....And? Who cares?
He never gave into anything to do with the Dark Side, especially IMO overall. He found the Dark Jedi and other light side Jedi detestable in several instances not because of their actions but because of.....their personalities. And? I got no problems.
Qui Gon found something going on in the order on his home planet, that he felt was off and agreed with Dooku on some points but didn't want Dooku around him. It's because Qui Gon could sense that the whole "mess" of politics going on, was leading down a dark path and the man flat knew Sidious was trouble. If we look at Qui Gon in a real world tint, he kinda did hint to lots of people even folks living in the town that Palpatine etc were not good news.
Did he do anything about it? Well to me he did, he warned basically everyone during his travels. But not in a way of, well, time to panic. He just said at least in the novels that he didn't always trust Yoda. Now to me, this makes sense. Yoda is a great wise master but that doesn't mean Yoda is always right.
If we look at it objectively, had Qui Gon gotten higher in position and trained Anakin: Anakin would've still gone dark but it wouldn't have ended as badly and the war would have ended a lot sooner in my opinion. Also Qui Gon knew Anakin so well, that he likely would have prevented Anakin from falling entirely to the dark side. This isn't just my opinion there is an awful lot of support out there among fans for saying Qui Gon was both more studied, and had better instincts than a Yoda.
This doesn't mean I look on the fiction and think the whole Jedi code or Jedis were wrong. It doesn't mean I believe the Sith were right at all or either side was doing the right thing. It just means I agree with Qui Gon and his pal, that the whole thing had flaws. I think there was so many flaws that they placed Windu on window watch duty most of his life, versus letting him be out in the field kicking ass and meeting people like he belonged. I think there was likely many more flaws than that, but especially for me I thought Qui Gon handled all these messes in brilliant fashion. The man was a legend, not a mistake when I look at canon since he had his ear to the ground and knew what was coming. Obi Wan as wise as he was, didn't know what he spoke of.
Ronny Trembler I agree with you on all of it!
Dear God, we are such huge nerds. I love it. Keep it up everyone....
Wait a moment. Qui Gon owned slaves? I reckon that’s not the mark of a true good doer. Disagree all you want. Owning slaves is lowly. A true Jedi would never own slaves. Sounds like something a Sith would do.
Qui-Gon Jinn: A Star Wars Story.
Windu fought with that dark-side style. Having him fight all the time might have been a bad idea.
This is why prequels are secretly brilliant!!
I agree. The story behind the Prequels is fantastic.
The Phantom Menace is my personal favourite. And 4th best SW movie in my book. I can't fathom how ridiculous TFA and TLJ were. Some high points (nostalgia, oscar isaac) but the rest is pure reheated trash. I still can't believe it. Long live Qui Gon (and Liam Neeson)
nothing about the prequels make sense. Just a bunch of made up shit made on the go.
I think you may be confusing the prequel trilogy with the sequel trilogy.
There is nothing confusing about the 2 trilogies and neither is the plot on the Force Awakens or Last Jedi. Sure it wasnt perfect but holy mother of god, the prequels are absolute dogshit of a mess.
Everyone forgets that he had a very particular set of skills
I could not have said it better myself.
Bravo!
Still my favorite Jedi to this day.
Extremely well thought out, clear concise and appreciated!
Great vid, Thor.
Qui-gon, in my opinion, is a very good character and one of my favorite characters along with Dooku.
On a side note: I generally like the sequels, but it just seems like they haven't given us anything as creative as the stories Lucas gave us in the prequels(like the story of Qui-Gon). Executed properly, the prequel trilogy could have been a complete masterpiece.
That being said, I still enjoy them though.
Dooku? Bleh..
This supports the theory that Luke assembled his lightsaber with Qui-Gon's Kyber Crystal. Luke and Qui-Gon were both pure Jedi that were guided by nothing but the will of the force, not the council (which didn't even exist when Luke first became a Jedi).
And green is the color of "will" as a certain other intergalactic peace keeping force asserts :D :P
I mean, realistically, what other kyber crystal would Obi-wan have had knowledge of the location of? Logically, Luke would have gone back to tatooine and raided Obi-wan's hut in search of info/resources that he couldn't obtain from Yoda. The only other green saber crystal that might have been available is Yoda's. So it would make perfect sense to me for Luke to have found Qui-gon's saber and used the crystal from it.
In new canon, the colour of the lighsaber is given by the kybercrystal after it bonds with its finder- jedi that excel at physical\practical use of the force gain blue colored crystals, jedi talented in meditation, mind tricks etc get a green one. The colour does not change if a new jedi picks it up\the former owner changes his skillset. I think luke just got a fresh unbond crystal. Since he is shown to mindtrick well in jabbas palace, and overall relies on the forces messages( like that his father still struggles ), i think this is the awnser to his lightsabers colour...
@@fizzlewick that's Disney "cannon", it doesn't count.
How does this video not have more views after 6 years??? This is possibly one of the most important star wars video essays I’ve seen!
If you haven't already read it, I think you might really enjoy the novel Darth Plagueis. The titular character has much to say about the Jedi that you'd find interesting.
Awesome narrative great perspective into the Jedi preclone wars
which is exactly what Luke said in 8.
After Qui-Gon, I think Ahsoka was the closest thing to a true Jedi, but (ironically) only after she left the Jedi order. Once she was just an unaffiliated light side force user, she was led by the Force to help the Rebels, but perhaps more importantly (and I partially base this on possible information that we don't have yet) comes across Ezra. I think what may have sparked the "real Jedi" in Ahsoka may have been Barriss Offee's words to the court after Anakin captured her...that the Jedi had lost their way and become defacto agents of the dark side. Misguided as Barriss's way of bringing change may have been, I think people underestimate the effect that those words had on Ahsoka.
I 100% agree with you and the story you mentioned really shows the downfall of the Jedi Order. Barriss was meant to be a healer, and so her involvement during the Clone Wars broke her and made her do terrible things for the right reasons. While Ahsoka, only after turning away from the Jedi, was able to truly embrace the light. (God, I love the Prequel era! So many great stories!)
Truly great points! MTFBWY!
Exactly, just as a church building is not by necessity a house of God, the Jedi order is not necessarily an adherer of the light. Ashoka and Qui Gon understood that as Jedi, the light was more important than legalism.
Who are BO and Ezra?
Or Barriss Offee may have been spouting BS as a last ditch effort to harm the Jedi and spread discontent. Once she went full-on bad guy, anything she said should be taken with a grain of salt.
Following the will of the force. I think that Luke and Qui-Gon were the only true Jedi. Even master Yoda lost his way. he gray Jedi thing has to stop. Jedi Like Qui-Gon were loving peace keepers. Yes I knoe Luke dipped into the dark side to defeat Vader. But that is the point a true Jedi can use the parts of the force be it dark or light, but follows the will of the force. No gray area. Great video Thor. Love Qui-Gon.
The Jedi was always a light side extremist group, from its very founding just like the dark jedi or later the Sith is the dark side extremist group. That is the reason the Gray Jedi was born who acted much like the original force users that where before the Jedi and Sith, the je'daii order.
The je'daii order focused on finding the balance between the dark and the light until the force wars which eneded with a split in the je'daii order and resulted in the birth of the dark jedi later renamed Sith after the enslavement of the Sith species and the Jedi Order after they allied with the Galactic Republic.
Thats why Gray Jedi or what you now call true Jedi was born, but true Jedi is a true light side extremist like you see them in the prequels. So its true that Qui Gon was a gray Jedi and not a true Jedi, he believed in balance in the force like the ancient je'daii order.
‘Much you have given me, to think on this I will’
Seriously deep and cool video!
"I can only protect you, not fight a war for you" seems to me more of an indicator of the limits of Qui-Gon's capabilities/the extent of his mission rather than that the force has whispered in his ear what he should do. Other than that I think you have some really good points!
With regard to QGJ being called, "grey," I only recall the description appearing in some Expanded Universe materials, to the tune of, "*Some called* Qui-Gon a grey Jedi, because he wouldn't follow the Council....." That's as far as it goes for me.
What I'd really like to say, is to congratulate you on what may be, in 19 years, the first truly valid critique of the "midi-chlorians" concept I've ever heard! Unlike many self-styled fans, I've never deplored the idea's introduction outright, and I even felt that it made a great deal of sense at the time. But your insight into what it may have symnbolozied about Jedi thinking at the time, particularly as the wrong thing for the Council to focus on, makes just as much sense to the story. That really is a first.
Nick Hentschel The movies never say that midi-chlorians are supposed to be a good thing to focus on. All the people who talk midi-chlorians end up dead or homeless.
I just think Qui-Gon believes what he is doing is morally right.
He has moved past morality. Morality is a subjective human construct, the universe is not morally wrong when galaxies smash into each other, nor is an earthquake malevolent for killing thousands of people. Things happen and people put a subjective spin on them, either towards good or towards bad, but moving past that duality and following the will of the force, even when it may look like it is to your personal detriment, should be the true way of the Jedi. Qui-Gon may have known or sensed that Anakin will become a great Sith lord, however, the Jedi's job is to ensure that balance is kept, not that the Jedi order prospers. There were thousands of Jedi and just 2 Sith, does that sound like balance prior to the Jedi purge? I don't think so.
Or, The will of the Force.
QGG came across as kind though and not cold-blooded.
Cryptosporidium 137
Thanks Professor Jordan B. Peterson
I have to agree with retardno002. Morality still falls under am I right or wrong. Qui Gon wasn't that person, he put aside beliefs, for the most part, and went on feeling, and used meditation with the Force to understand and be more in tune with said feelings. In moderns terms, its the person you may or may not know who has a gut feeling and things seem to constantly work out for them.
Well thanks to Dave Filoni you were correct
i wish we could have a film about qui-gon's entire life! he's such an awesome character: depth, complexity, adversity, heartbreak, wisdom, courage. easily be an excellent film.
On SW quiz, I always got Qui Gon out of all. I always feel so lucky. He’s the true representation of a Jedi.
True Jedi. Hands down.
I think you're spot on! My mind has been changed.
Also he has a green lightsaber, which is the colour of a jedi who stays calm and prefers to use the force more than fighting with a lightsaber.
And most of the famous ones are really skilled with sabers, kit fisto, yoda, luke.
He was the only true Jedi consular. A Jedi who refuses to engage in battle unless truly necessary. One with the force
Yoda: screams in spinning green lightsabers
The truth about Qui Gon Gin is that “Liam Neesons IS MY SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIT!
Liam Neesons already need to _have_ a statue, he ain't got no statue!
Master Gui-Gon f'in Jinn is my favorite Star Wars character, always has been since I was a kid. Yoda calls him master.
Will of the Force?
Influence lost (-): Kreia.
Thor, you are steadfast and in tune with the force. You are the Qui-Gon Jinn of Star Wars TH-camrs.
That is maybe the best compliment I've ever gotten on here. Thank you.
You're welcome
Thor Skywalker - The force is strong with you!
I for one think he's right! You are the Qui-gon Jin of Star Wars TH-camr's!
P.S. I'm a little jealous lol! 😆
I bet we cannot do this kind of discussion to the new star wars..
I think it’s really hard to do because both episode 7 and 8 take place in maybe a week. There’s no time for character growth or even the plot to grow between movies.
Aint that right.
I think Kylo’s inner conflict could be a good topic of discussion. He’s the first to be tempted by the light. Personally I think him and Rey are gonna switch sides in IX
Damn
The new star wars is full of nothing.
I've always felt this way about Qui-Gon. Truthfully, I always had the impression that the real reason Obi-Wan didn't follow in his path even though he seems to have many similar feelings is that he's been told all his life both that he wasn't good enough and no one wanted him and that he needed to shut up and conform. I mean that in the nicest possible way, but he almost washed out of the Jedi Order (through no fault of his own) and at that point I can imagine that experience being traumatic enough to make him desperate to be a "good Jedi".
Add to that he took on Anakin immediately after Qui-Gon dies and without even a mourning period, goes straight from conflicted apprentice to a master who needs to look like he knows what he's doing (because training Anakin at all was going against the council, because he was too young to be training Anakin, etc. I can imagine a fear of losing his Padawan because somebody thinks he's doing it wrong).
And during the time when he's trying to learn how to, in essence, be a substitute parent and a teacher for a child with issues he's never faced, his only sources of advice are people who will tell him all the wrong things. Qui-Gon was already dead.
We see pretty clearly in the movies/shows that Obi-Wan indulges Anakin much more than he should by Jedi standards, that he's more often than not privately in agreement with Anakin but feels he should keep to the standards he's been taught, that he is expected to keep tabs on Anakin and correct his behavior by other more "proper" Jedi long after Anakin has become a Knight.
This was brought up in the EU, but basically since Qui Gon was already a hippie rebel, how does his teenage apprentice Obi Wan Kenobi rebel against that? By being a By-the-Book type.
I definitely agree. It's funny that ever since the new trilogy came out I've found myself coming back to watch retrospectives on the Prequel Trilogy just because there's so much more to explore. Where the core movies failed to delve deeper into the characters and lore the comics, novels, and cartoons fill that gaping hole.
Two characters who I am finding myself coming back to in particular is both Qui-gon Jin and Obi-wan Kenobi. I feel that Qui-gon is criminally-underrated and would love to read more stories involding him and padawan Obi-wan is so awesome to me because of what we know that he'll grow into! Awesome video!
matmusada 100% agreed.
Qui gon is the best jedi
ItsRyanYT he wasn't that great with a light saber...
Only a sith deals in absolutes
Got em
Grandmaster Luke from the EU is the best Jedi IMO, but Qui Gon is my third favorite. Jaina Solo comes in second.
You are reading WAAAAAAAY too much into it, Qui-gon went at the personal behest of chancellor Valorum, because he had many times over proven that he was very skilled at negotiating in critical situations. You also seem to forget that just a scene later Qui-gon himself says that he did not sense anything when Obi Wan did and in fact shot him down on the threat. He also couldn't fight a war for Padme because that was not what he was ordered to do, and if he had he would involve the Jedi and therefore the senate who at the time had not yet issued a statement on which side of the conflict to partake in, never mind that Valorum sent him behind the back of the senate, he could protect her but nothing more.
Also, you all seem to forget that Qui-gon's second padawan fell to the Dark Side and committed suicide rather than be captured.
Also 'true jedi' doesn't mean anything as there is no such thing, what a Jedi is has changed drastically over the millennia, are 'true Jedi' the Jedi Lords and their dynasties that controlled entire planets and would join Lord Hoth's Army of Light against the Brotherhood of Darkness? Or the researchers of the Jeddai order who where forced into becoming warriors by the infinite empire? Or those who joined Revan to fight the Mandalorian Neo crusaders against the orders of the Jedi Council. The Jedi have always been diplomats, warriors, researchers, explorers, medics, watchmen, and some even assassins.
Another thing, Qui-gon Jinn spent an extended period with Hego Damask otherwise known as Darth Plagueis, and his supposed 'True Jedi'-ness did not give him any insight on the true nature of Damask.
Qui-gon is NOT what the Jedi are supposed to be, but just another look at what the Jedi are.
You are also going the wrong way about it, the fact that they couldn't sense the Sith was not a lack of skill or 'favour' with the force, it was a mark of excellence for the Sith in question. It is not a "wow stupid Jedi can't even sense a Sith in the same room as them" but rather "wow this Sith can hide himself even in the presence of the most powerful Jedi".
THANK YOU
Finally someone else gets it... although I would argue that Yoda in ESB and Luke at the end of ROTJ as he tosses his saber, are true Jedi as well.
True Jedi live in peace and harmony, following the will of the Force, seeking the good of all life, turning from selfishness and death. They use the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack.
The prequels would have been better if in Ep 1, the Jedi were scattered around the galaxy, trying to seek justice in their local communities (a la Ghandi) through non-violent resistance and defense. (The lightsaber being a symbol of defense and deflection of laser blasts.) Anyone sentient could come to train to be a Jedi, as the Force is in and through all living things - but those who seek to use this power for their own selfish means would start down the dark path which ultimately destroys them - until they return to self sacrifice for the good of others.
Ep 1 should have started with this picture of TRUE Jedi, and Ep 2-3 displaying their downfall as some of them start to join ranks with the Senate, and their powers used now for attack and war. Joining the Senate/Republic should have been clearly shown to be the downfall of the Jedi religion.
(This would mirror the story of Jesus, the most perfect human, and then the subsequent downfall of "Christians" as the Catholic church becomes wrapped up in government under Constantine, to be used as a tool of the State...)
Yes... starting the prequel trilogy with the Jedi already tools of the Republic muddies the storytelling of what the Jedi are really supposed to be. They should've started from their own remote Enclaves, such as the one on Dantooine in KOTOR, rather than the massive temple next to the Senate building on metroplanet Coruscant.
This is what Disney should be doing now
I have seen many arguments that Yoda using a light saber is terrible because it goes completely against his peace loving characteristics in the Empire Stikes Back. Now that you say this it makes me realise that it is nonsense, the Yoda we see in the prequels is "young" and slightly naive, it is only after failing to defeat palpatine that he realises that violence is not the answer.
Just finished the clone wars. There are several times that the Republic and Senate threaten to and successfully remove Republic Clone activities. This is in the same context which shows Anakin beginning to develop relentless war tactics as akin to Tarkin's. This removal of the Jedi's role in the clone activities serves two purposes: 1. To prevent them from learning of Order 66 or influencing clones to sympathize with the Jedi 2. (Which your post has enlightened me to) Work to convince the Jedi that their actual duty is to the Republic/ Senate and the war instead of to the force. Palpatine let them get very caught up in the war, then openly reminds them they are peace keepers. The Jedi by this point have already lost their way to the point, that they are eager to defend their right to be apart of military preceding.
The Jedi in the prequels were wholly evil, what with being Generals and killing people in wars. Hell, they even used flamethrowers on sentients! How is that keeping the peace? That's just murder!
Finally !!! Thank u for this video bro been waiting for some one to explain/ show the same perspective I have.👌👌👌
Incredible observation! Honestly, completely superb, you have have touched on a subject I've secretly been suspicious of as far back as I remember.... Applause
Qui Gon has always been my favorite Jedi, Followed closely by Obi Wan, Then Luke.
THANK YOU! The whole Gray Jedi thing is absurd. It’s basically “I want to be a badass warrior monk, but ignore my superiors and the code whenever I feel like it. But I swear I’m not a Sith. Sith are bad, and I swear I’m a good person.” That kind of pride leads to the dark side. I would add to this that I don’t think Qui-Gon had any problem obeying the council for missions and such. Being a true Jedi, he would be eager to lend a hand to people in need when asked, so long as doing so didn’t cause bigger problems.
Bradley Poole Ah But the idea that someone could balance the use of the force and use both the dark and the light side for a greater purpose doesn’t fit your description exactly. They don’t have to be defiant to be grey. Just only do what they believe is correct I. Their heart. Sometimes this requires tough love like when you tell a kid he can’t eat a chocolate bar for dinner. Or that he has to go to bed on time. Or more to the point use a dark side power to achieve a positive goal such as Luke did with force choke in the Jabbas palace. Sometimes being firm and even harnessing darkness is required to maintain balance. When Yin is deficient tonify Yin. When Yang is deficien tonify Yang.
I see what, you are saying, Isaac. However, I do not think there can be a greater purpose than balancing the Force, which is what a true Jedi (using the Light Side) should strive for. Anything else, no matter how grand the vision or just the cause, is a distraction at best and,at worst, a step towards the "might makes right" attitude of the Dark Side. This is a problem, even if it does come in a kind, paternalistic package. (BTW, Light does not necessarily mean nice.) After witnessing the fall of Anakin Skywalker, I'm not convinced that any being's heart can tell the difference between the will of the Force and their own will, unless said being constantly practices self abnegation and self surrender to others. The moment you dedicate yourself to that kind of selflessness, you abandon the Dark side, and with it any possibility of being "gray."
Bradley Poole fair enough you are entitled to your opinion. But I believe that in order to balance you need dark or there will be unbalance naturally just as sure as the sun sets every day. And this trying to maintain balance with only light is impossible and only creates an imbalance in doing so and that’s why Palpatine rose to power and why the Sith keep rising because there is such a huge offset of light throwing off the balance in such a strong way an equally strong darkness arises. When we got to the time of the last Jedi it was Darkness arising and light to counter it.
In respect to Qui Gon. Is something I'm reminded of from KoTOR. When Jolee talks about a Jedi friend of his who had a destiny & that destiny was to fall in to a reactor & blow up a ship as a result of this accident.
Basically what might seem incidental in Star Wars, might well be the will of the Force. We just lack the galactic perspective to see how all these incidental things play out.
The main point I took away from Rogue One is that the Force uses sentient beings like toilet paper. The blind dude trusted in the force with his whole being...he followed and used that trust to walk through a storm of laser bolt fire to disable the force field that allowed the attack to be successful...and the second he was successful, the Force left him like a turd in a toilet. Fractional moments later...dead as doo doo. So, yeah, "destiny"...like Charmin.
Qui-Gon Jinn has always been my favourite Jedi!!! And this is how I have always seen him! He was the most pure example of following the Jedi way we are ever given, and it helps to show why being a Jedi would be someone's aspiration. I hadn't heard that people were calling him a "grey" Jedi, but I've never heard anything more ridiculous in my life. Qui-Gon Jinn is possibly the best most accurate follower of the Jedi way.
@TeaAndCroissants same here! Qi gon jinn has also been my favorite Jedi. I believe Grogu could possibly be a whole new era for the Jedi, as he will not only unite with mandalorians, but hopefully put an end to detachment and start a new Jedi legacy. and possibly become another true Jedi like quo gonn and Anakin.
Fully agree with you. Even Yoda himself commends Qui-Gon and even became his apprentice in becoming one with the Force as a force ghost as seen in Revenge of the Sith and even more explicitly in the EU novelization.
tbh he’s my favorite jedi. i’ve seen this one statement floating around the internet that’s something like “the rest of the jedi used the force and commanded it, but qui gon let the force use him”
My interpretation of what a Grey Jedi isn't exactly how most other people would see it. As opposed to whielding both sides of the Force, they seek balance within it. Which sounds like just a normal Jedi, I know.
But think of it more as the Father from Mortis. He enbodied not the light side, not the dark side, but the Force itself and therefor the balance of life and death, or light and dark, if you will.
I might sound a little confusing or unclear, but that's really only because I'm not really putting that much effort into this. Hopefully if I wanted to put my time into this I could explain it better. Eitherway, I hope you get my gist.
May the Force be with you!
Grey Jedi A grey Jedi is essentially a member of the Je'Daii.
Jolee Bindo :P
@@Chu8rock Ya basically.
Exactly, I mean look at Jolee Bindo, he's not good, he's not evil, he just does what is nessecary.
i dont get a google hit for holes bindo, but thanks to the aftername it shows me a wookipedia for jolee bindo. Same character?
Bravo sir. Not gray. True Jedi for sure.
I did think that Qui-Gon Jinn was a grey Jedi because in the movies it seems he wasn't in the favor of the council. We only learn later that he was once offered a seat on the council and that he declined. I may have not understood the dialog in the film and be wrong but thats how I took it. Qui-Gonn however still remaines one of my favorite Jedi. Now you explain reasons why my thinking may have been wrong, but that makes Qui-Gon an even better character. Good video and makes you think!
Wow, I never looked at it that way, I completely agree with everything you just said, thanks for the post it made me think
The only hole in your argument is that Qui Gonn uses the Force when he's gambling with Watto. He makes sure that the chance cube lands on Anakin and not Schmi. So in the end, either he doesn't truly trust the Force, or he rejects the Will of the Force to get what he wants.
Nah bro wattos dice was loaded
But its deeper - he also tricks Watto to do a bad bet that destroys him. He's Watto so who cares. But he also kidnaps Anakin ONLY because he has high midichlors - he never really cares for him. One reason I think he died - he needed to atone for what he did. He was better than Yoda but hardly a true Jedi in any real sense.
@@darkthorpocomicknight7891 true jedi were the Je-di and they were grey not light side only. Qui-gon was much closer than Yoda. Yoda was not extreme light side either but was blinded by his belief in one side vs another.
the Jedi died when kenobi joined the council and the Jedi was reborn when luke created his lightsaber
The Jedi died through Windu's hubris. I'm not sure that they are reborn either after the sequel trilogy, though of course the Sith are at least dead as an Order.
Love this video.
So Qui-Gon was even more awesome than I realized. He wasa already one of my favorite characters in Star Wars.
Wow, I 100% agree with you! one of the things I love about the prequels is how they touch more on just good vs evil, which was majority of the theme for the originals. It shows that even in society we can all get lost, and sometimes the maverick is the one sticking too the actual moral code that has been overlooked by everyone else. It shows just how far greed and corruption can sneak into the hearts of the most noble. I do Believe the prophecy always intended for Anakin to go down the path that he did, think of the great flood. Ofcourse that was a disaster but it was something that cleansed the land of the corrupt, despite it being a tragic event.
Wow, good theory, I love it!
Qui-Gon was wider and had more knowledge of the force than Yoda and the council. It was Qui-Gon who learned the way to become a force ghost and taught Yoda how to become one after death. The order was hung up on dogmatic rules and became an arm of the corrupt government and was arrogant.
Sighs... this is more or less the isues with churches and synagogues... so weird
Derek Richardson, I find it doubtful that any Jedi could have as much knowledge as Yoda, given his vastly superior lifespan. But Qui-Gon certainly could have focused his research better than Yoda over a shorter period of time to learn some things that Yoda never did.
@@AV57 Long life does not equal perfect knowledge nor wisdom. Yoda was also blinded and he was unsure of himself a lot of times. He was either ignorant or un-curious about deeper aspects of the force than Qui-Gon. That much is evident.
Kimmy Queen, it was never suggested that longevity=perfect knowledge. It was only pointed out that Yoda lived to 896 years of age. Qui-Gonn lived to 32 years of age. I don’t think it’s a risk to assume that someone who lived 28 times longer than someone else would eventually accumulate more total knowledge. I’m not saying Yoda knew everything that Qui-Gonn knew. I’m just pointing out the obvious edge Yoda had over every human.
@@AV57 "I find it doubtful that any Jedi could have as much knowledge as Yoda, given his vastly superior lifespan." This statement suggested to me that you do believe that the longer a person lives means they by default know more than those of lesser age and you actually say it in your second post. It is ok if you believe that, however considering his blindness to the dark side of the Force , his confusion and lack of knowledge on speaking after dying, that is simply not true. I acknowledge that he DOES know a lot, but he doesn't know everything or more than others on many issues and disciplines.
Actually Qui Gon was around 60 years old. His intimacy with the Force, may have granted him knowledge and abilities that clearly another, no matter how old, but lacked such intimacy, did not have.
Star wars episode one: The Last Jedi
I agree with everything (almost) that you said. It was apparent to me from the beginning that he wasn't rebelling against the Council, but following the will of the Force, and he says as much through the film. Interesting parallels here with some mystical teachings here on planet Earth.
Quigon was by far my favorite character by virtue of what you describe here, and Liam's performance of course
While I don't disagree with the conclusion of him being a true Jedi, there are a couple of important points I think need to be considered.
Following the Will of the Force and maintaining balance was not the really the true purpose of the Jedi. It was more their methodology and goals for personal self control. As an order, they were "the guardians of peace in the Galaxy", as mentioned more than once. As such, negotiating treaties was perfectly within their purview, and there is a lot of long-standing lore of them doing that throughout history. What is slightly less a part of their history, as you bring up, is single-mindedly serving the Republic. They were (nearly) universally valued negotiators in disputes because they were known for being fair and impartial. It's true that they worked with the Republic for millenia, but it didn't start with them SERVING the Republic. In fact, at one point they had to convince the Republic to join them to take on the Sith Empire.
As to the Council losing the ability to use the Force because they were straying from Jedi ideals, I don't think that's why they had a problem. One of the abilities attributed to Palpatine was a version of Battle Meditation that allowed him to create a foggy barrier within the Force around him, while similarly linking his minions to his will. The reason that the Jedi couldn't recognize that he was a Sith was because of the shroud he created (I forget if it was Yoda or Obi Wan who mentioned it in the prequels). I do think most of the Jedi were distracted and complacent. This is why only Yoda felt the ripples of Anakin's failures or Order 66. One of those distractions was certainly a devotion to the Republic, and also affection for their clone counterparts in the field.
Thor that was very compelling video, and it has got me wondering why the council could not see what they had become. Also I wonder could you call the councils position that Qui Gon was being defiant to the council’s will and not just being adherent to the force, a symptom of their attachment to having power in a council seat.
I do think you're on to something, that they had let being on the council go to their head a bit. In RotS it was considered a very big deal that Anakin was being added to the council (and he was the youngest ever) so it's very possible the vanity of the position added to the demise of the most powerful Jedi of the time.
The council had become too bureaucratic and lost the introspective insight to see that they had lost their way. They had an agenda and so any amount of meditation couldn't reveal their mistakes when they were so adamant that they were not just correct but unquestionably correct. This is why the prophesy to bring balance to the force wasn't just to stop the Sith as the council assumed, it was to destroy both institutions and start from the ground up (this has been undone by the Disney sequels squandering their opportunities).
so Qui-Gon was the chosen one after all?
@Sari Çizmeli Mehmet Ağa the chosen one is the chosen one that chosens the ones
Excellent breakdown about Qui Gon being first force ghost because of his full achievement of being one with the force. You get a thumbs up after video
He was what the Jedi were supposed to be. Luke follows in his path. Luke also defies the "council" (what's left of it) when he insists Vader can be saved. He believes in Anakin like Qui-Gon did.