This is a very very pro Kuss video. Anyone watching the race saw the he was the weaker of the 3, Angliru was a clear prove. Saying Kuss could have attacked aswell is directly opposite to what would be Logic due to what we witnessed@@WattsYT
@@simontoxvaerd8161 You need to listen again and hear it in context. 7:06 - if he had reacted differently to the Vingegaard move/request to attack, things might have been different (in terms of the awkward dynamic afterwards). There's no suggestion that Kuss had legs to follow, but more a commentary about the team decisions at the time that could have gone differently.
If I was a tour team manager, I’d do everything possible to get Sepp on my team. He’s exactly the person I’d want representing all of my sponsors. Imagine how often he’s turned himself inside out for others?
For me, the stage that put this thing into a realm none were expecting was the time trial. It's always been a bit of a throwaway stage for Kuss, unless there's KOM points in there somewhere. It's not like he doesn't try, but I think this was the first time trial he ever did on the World Tour where he was all-in, everything on the table. Everyone thought he'd lose over a minute, some thinking he would lose over two, just because his teammates were time trial juggernauts and he was still "just" Sepp Kuss. But he came out still in the red jersey, and then the "fun began." What a unique situation that was though. You can't blame Roglic for wanting to be the guy. He has been that guy for years. He was the one who got Jumbo really going years ago, helping them to be the best GC team on the World Tour. I'm glad for Kuss. He deserved it, but he also earned it. And now Jumbo has three grand tour wins in one year, all by different riders. Will we ever see that again? Great narration, btw. That was a well done video.
I agree, I was actually very shocked that Sepp could TT so well. Remco performed a bit below his usual and Sepp way above his usual and it was magical to watch. Sepp usually uses the ITT as almost like a day off
Vingegaard decided who was going to win the Vuelta23, cause he was obviously the strongest. Had Vingegaard not been there as a buffer, Roglic for sure would have attacked, and did multiple times but with Vingegaard right on his wheel. Kuss was a class act all the way, and i can say from a danish POV, we all pulled for Kuss!
Bullshit. Except that on stage 13 Vingegaard attacks Kuss and Roglic. He gain some time but not enough to jump over Roglic. On stage 16 he attacks again, whilst Roglic stays with Kuss again. This time he takes enough time to jump over Roglic. And now's Roglic villain? Angliru happend AFTER that. Not to mention that Primoz towed Vingegaard's ass to the finish line on Stage 3. I am wondering if people who comment 2023 Vuelta actully watched it. Danes have somewhat twisted memory on what actually happened at this Vuelta and how it went from chronological perspective.
@@infokanal9317 Agreed. I think Roglic was the strongest rider. And the thing is, he was targeting the Vuelta all season. I believe the season goal for him was to take his fourth Vuelta title and they brought Jonas to support him. But after Sepp got the big lead in that break, everything changed. I could understand if Roglic was upset about that. Whether it was Primoz or Jonas that was truly the strongest, that can remain up for debate. But one thing I'm confident in, it was NOT Sepp.
I think part of it was also jostling between Jonas and Primoz over who is the strongest grand tour rider between them and should be given future leadership at the TDF ect.
What frustrated me with this situation was everyone was shitting on Primoz for dropping Kuss on the Angliru but no one criticised Yonas for attacking the day before. Being a huge Primoz fan, I wanted him to win and the Giro/ Vuelta double would have been fantastic. However, should Rog & Jonas have worked for Kuss and ensured his victory? Yes, I believe they should have no questions asked. Kuss domestique duties have second to none, he’s the best mountain domestique in the world but you can’t blame Primoz for wanting to win, at the beginning on the year his schedule included leadership at the Vuelta, he was also the leader at the beginning of the race which was then moved to co-leadership which would have probably hurt a little, it kinda shows the team cannot fully rely on him even though he was probably the strongest rider throughout the Vuelta. It’s definitely a tough one.
This video and y'all in the comments here are being way too harsh. This was a completely unprecedented situation that they had to navigate on the fly. They had to balance winning the race with the roles and responsibilities they agreed on beforehand, loyalty towards Kuss, and the personal ambitions of two grand tour winners. There's multiple ways to go about it and there simply was no playbook for these type of situations. In the end it all worked out. I'd say they handled it reasonably well. It could have been better. But considering the circumstances they did a pretty good job. And remember: these are professionals and its competitive sports. You don't become the best like Roglic and Vingegaard unless you're somewhat selfish.
He has such a well thought-out, articulated, and mature attitude toward this, and the team dynamic generally. I root for him for this reason, even separate from his physical talent.
This was first and foremost a DS problem. Without clear leadership the riders were forced to make up the rules on the fly. I don’t remember a GT where the domestique was in a position to win and the GC rider was in a position to take the lead. Plenty of times has the domestique been stronger than the GC ride,r often signaling a change of the guard. I don’t blame JV, albeit a bit selfish IMO, for asking permission, but the DS should have shut that down. And the DS definitely should have shut down what happened on Angliru. Roglic shouldn’t have attacked, end of story. Not sure if JV should have followed or stayed, it sure did put Roglic dreams of a 4th Vuelta win on ice, but it Sepp would have lost less time if Jonas stayed. However, there is a chance that they would then have contend with a combative/hopeful Roglic in the last mountain stages, if JV hadn’t shadowed his every move.
And all attacks by Jonas before were fine lol? Rogič attacked once with too much deficit. I know I know I'm paranoid, Jonas never came to win but to support Sepp 😂😂
Having the full podium was a new situation for the team and with no precedence, there were uncertainties how to deal with it. They made the right decision and all but one rider agreed to that.....
Good answer from Kuss, Roglic would have not won the giro if Kuss wasn’t there. And vingerganrd would have had it more difficult. So yes, I see he really won the Vuelta, he was not given it, he earned it
I always said that Vingegaard only attacked because Kuss allowed. They have their intercommunicators for some reason and Yonas would never attack in such situation without permission. Go go Visma Lease a Bike
what I dont understand is, how Evenepoel became the hero for not giving ANY of his team mates a chance for a stage victory, when he lost the classification.
Cycling is a team sport, none of these riders can win a Grand Tour on their own. Some argue: "Let the best man win". Which is true, but not when your teammate is in the leaders jersey. Teammates should never compete against other teammates. Instead, you fall in line and support each other. Which, fortunately, Jumbo decided to do .
Just watching that Angliru stage, something just felt off about it and just way Jonas and Roglic were interacting with each other after line, something was amiss. It's probably a good thing Roglic left when he did or else things could have blown up more this coming year
Kuss earned that win. Just like Rogla and Ving earned their wins with his help. You don't attack your teammate in the leaders jersey, you support and protect.
The moral of the story is to only have one leader. I think the fans would rather the GC talent was distributed across the teams but we know some teams are richer than others. Kuss needs to have the full weight of responsibility on his shoulders to prove he wasn’t just a fortunate side effect of the other teams having to watch out for Roglic and Vingegaard. I’m not saying he didn’t deserve his win and I’m really pleased he did. I’m just suggesting that in years to come his win will continue to be debated. A lot of us will remember Greg Lemond complaining about Bernard Hinault’s antics in the 1985 Tour which he said breached the agreement made in the 1984 Tour that Hinault would ride for him the next year. Hinault’s point was that by attacking but failing proved Lemond was the strongest rider in the race and there would never be any doubt that he deserved his win. Then there was the Giro in 1987 when Stephen Roche took matters into his own hands by attacking his team leader, Roberto Viscentini, and going on to win with the assistance of just one teammate (if I remember correctly) and Robert Miller. All good fun.
There is such a thing as too many cooks. However, Jumbo-Visma on this occasion got away with it rather smoothly, and in twenty years time people will only see that podium with three teammates on it, and this backstage confusion will be forgotten. So chapeau to them, at the end of the day. Sure, some of the more conservative cycling fans didn't like what they were witnessing, but this is just what happens when one team is far too good for the competition. In reality the third best rider in the race took the number one spot. And I don't blame them for giving it to a domestique, especially when that domestique is the most well-liked guy in the peloton AKA Mr Sepp Kuss. Sure was a bit of extra excitement in a race where nobody could take on Jumbo-Visma anyways.
I think that Vingegaard was okay with Kuss winning, thats why that decision was made. The only one that sounded differently was Roglic, but they were in a situation were either Kuss or Vingegaard would win, that was also why Vingegaard stayed with Roglic.
Kuss, what an amazing persona. Super humble, strong and loyal. He deserved that victory and he had legs to capture it. Vingegard can only learn from him and Roglic did good to change the team. Hope Kuss will prove his worth as a leader in 2024 as well.
Vingegaard already waited for Pogacar, gave ITT victory to Van Aert and he wanted to help Kuss win the Vuelta. Vingegaard doesn't need to learn anything from Kuss.
Interesting but two things are missing. What did he say on the radio when he got dropped on the Angliru? Did he feel Roglic was less "loyal" than Vingo?
did you even watch the whole tour? primoz attacked once, jonas tried multiple times. are you dane? seems like alll of you have not been watching closely
It's still a weird situation, when the team didn't made a clear plan for a GrandTour in the beginning. It sounds like they first made a plan when half of the tour was done.
yeah right - but did JV had no plan in the beginning? Was their plan bad or did maybe somebody failed the plan? That's the interesting thing... Who was listed #1 on Team JV before starting the Vuelta???Was it Vingo?Roglic?Kuss? Someone else? @@romanvercier3556
Incredible race and Kuss definitely deserved it but he’s delusional thinking he was the strongest in the race. Promoz wanted it and could’ve taken it. Jonas didn’t want it, but would prefer to take it himself than give it to Primoz, and he could’ve done so easily.
He won it on the TT! That's when he prove it to his teammates he was the strongest on La Vuelta! It das awsome to see such a dominance from one team once again
??? Sorry but i dont' understand that argument.... on the TimeTrial he wasn't even Top10, but Roglic came in Third and Vingo was 10. place.... So what makes him "the strongest" in that stage? Roglic was over 50 seconds faster... i mean with Team JV was extremely dominant you're completely right.
7:30 no this is some bullshit i am sorry. I know sepp is very likeable and all that, but he was NOT the strongest in the vuelta. He only won cus he was given that one stage, all the other stages vingegaard and roglic was faster than him, both in TT and on the climbs. I think vingegaard easily could have won it all on the angliru stage, if he had just given it all he could. You could see him chilling on the climb behind roglic. I do think Sepp deserved the win, but only as a "thank you for your loyalty" kindda win. He didnt deserve it as simply the best rider of the vuelta win.
Sepp is a hero for us American cyclists! SELFLESS as can be. Visma has some amazing riders. Wout and Jonas love in the tdf is amazing too. Sepp is the ultra domestique and seeing him in red was 👌
Those Americans who really thinks Sepp was the strongest rider and Jonas couldn’t have won😂.. well Sepp has told he’s co captain at TDF this season.. let’s see how that goes 😊
Vingegard saved Sepp. Jonas was the buffer between Sepp and Roglic. If Roglic attacked he would never win because Jonas was stronger. For Roglic the choice was losing to Vingegard ore letting the win to Kuss. Easy as that. Vinegard was the trusted trammate for Sepp.
Without a doubt the best personality in cycling right now, and that's with Pogacar, Mohoric, Cav and many more currently on the circuit. I'd put him as fourth best rider overall as well.
I lock Kuss, I love the fact that cycling is a team sport, but at the same time also felt Jumbo Visma made a bit of a mockery of the sport by gifting a GT like that.
I love Sepp as a rider, especially as an American because he makes a great ambassador for American cycling, but he got gifted this Vuelta win. If Vingegaard was allowed to win, he would have easily. If Roglic was allowed to, he would have easily as well. Kuss was handed this victory and it feels tainted
you dont win a grand tour by yourself. period. not jonas, not primosz, not pog, not even lance with all the doping in the world. its a TEAM effort to get you into a position to win and support you along the way. roglic and jonas would have a lot more work to do themselves without kuss doing so much work chasing and setting tempo. does roglic win a giro without kuss? does jonas get the gap over pog if he has to chase down everything himself? cycling at its core is a team effort to win anything, kuss earned the respect of his team mates from his years of dedicated selfless work. kuss earned the lead by going on the attack and getting a gap putting him into the lead. he then had the TT of his life from his own efforts to hold onto the lead and minimize the loss. he then minimized any losses throughout the rest of the race holding onto the lead. he COULD have followed jonas but thats not being a very good team mate so he sat on. kuss earned every bit of that vuelta win. another point to consider is the strongest rider doesnt always win the race, if we just cared who was the fastest wed let them all do a TT over the course of every stage. tl:dr; kuss earned the vuelta win
@@chriswitek9455 by your logic it's actually Robert Gesink the one who earned Vuelta, not Kuss :P Maybe they should put Gesink into early breakaway instead of Kuss? What are you saying? I mean why do you feel like one domestique is above all other domestiques who also work hard, some even harder, than Kuss? I am pretty sure that you're American and you're biased but still... some cyclists work hard to pull half of the peloton for miles and miles for days and weeks, not just few miles at two or three designated mountain stages. tl:dr; amercians have somewhat strange understanding of World Tour cycling.
The real drama here is why are you all watching history repeat itself and ignore it. One team this much better then everyone else. History will tell you there's are very obvious reason for this, and you all choose to ignore it.
Were things actually awkward truly behind the scenes? It doesn't matter... what matters is that this guy was worthily rewarded - either because of his talent or because of his spirit of sacrifice - for being a domestique for all 3 top stage tours in 2023, helping Roglic win the "Giro d'Italia," Vingegaard win the "Tour de France." His smile is so sunny, genuine, that he is loved by cycling fans all over the world, no matter the nationality or team he belongs to. Finally, we recognize that in any other team except Evenepoel's Soudal Quick-Step, he could easily be a full captain. I loved Sepp😘
Kuss is fine rider. And had great vuelta. But at vuelta 23 kuss was 3d best gc rider, and was allowed to win gc. The theme was “let the best win, the road will decide.” But jumbo management caved to social media and decided to let kuss win it. Unfair! Now roglic might never be the rider w the most vuelta wins in history. Unfair! Now vingegaard might be the rider to never win all 3 gts. Jumbo was rt to begin w-let the best win. Ugh
One looks like the human you'd want your kid to grow into. 2 look like they're all about themselves and shouldn't be trusted. Shine and shade became part of all 3's legacy in that tour. Bravo Sepp
Sepp Kuss has made significant contributions to the team, and his victory is commendable. Since cycling is a team sport he certainly deserved to win the Vuelta. I hope that jumbo and Vingegaard will learn from this experience.
gift win, yes yes he helped primoz and jonas win their tour, but if you cover the name of the domestique in the teams, what he did can be also done with riders like jorgenson , ayuso, almeida(my point is what he did was nothing special). i dont care what you say, if jonas or primoz decided f all of this rode harder there would be no grand tour for sepp kuss .
and if sepp kuss is really strong enough to win a tour and has a problem with doing years of riding as a domestique for visma, why not transfer to another team and lead his own team? can he do it? its not caste system like he claimed, its about balls system. pretty sure these super domestique like sepp kuss has offers from other teams to be leaders however he doesnt have the balls to do it. meanwhile he wants to have a grand tour title because he helped his teammates get theirs like its not his job or not in their contract. talk about privilege, riding as a support when the competition is hard but when theres no competition other than his teammates now he wants the title like he actually earned it. ill say it again a gift win, if I was primoz id leave that team too, with a diva domestique and another leader how can you get your spot in that team?
Wait wait…so Kuss felt strong…and that he could win the stage…and got gapped. Further evidence the political favorite won…but no the outright strongest 😂
I think it was only the press who made this a drama. If Vingegaard and Roglic was forced to wait for Kuss on the stage, they could,all three, have lost valuable time to the other teams, especially if Kuss was breaking down. I'm glad Kuss won, it's OK that Vingegaard and Roglic gave some payback to a loyal teammate. Cycling is a teamsport with a individual winner and there is where it differs from other sports.
Kuss is cute, but he was not the strongest at all. He won due to a 'popular vote' and the fact he is an American with all the media weight that brings. Was he a Portuguese or a Polish rider he would never pull it off.
The Tour will be fascinating this year. I don't see Kuss pulling Jonas all the way the big climbs anymore. Kuss should be chasing stage wins. If Jonas can't hold the wheel, then Kuss powers away for the win. And we should see some explosive accelerations from Sepp.
@@HolgerDanske874 Yes. Sepp is a team player and has been a wonderful domestique, but he is going to be looking for stage wins. He has said as much. He now knows and embraces his GC ability. If he is in yellow, he won't be 100 per cent for Vingegaard. Will Jonas ever pull Sepp up the big climbs? Doubt it.
@@JeffreyHoeper Kuss is not on the same level as Pogacar and Vingegaard. Kuss will be 100% a domestique for Vingegaard. Of course, Visma-LAB will try to keep Kuss in the GC, but just like in Tour de France 2023 where Yates was a domestique for Pogacar even when wearing the yellow jersey, the same will be true for Kuss.
@@HolgerDanske874 Sepp needs to find out if he is at that level. He is close. Finished 3 grand tours last year and won the final one. Well up on GC in each tour. But I agree that Pogacar, Vingegaard, and Roglic are the guys to beat. That's why I see Sepp chasing stage wins at the Tour . . . and to do that he needs to get Jonas off his wheel.
How management of TJV handled this is horrific. How Vingegard and Roglič handled this is horrific. I mean. On hit B-day they dropped him on Angrilu, where he could have won. I love it when Sepp says. If we have a cast system, then the one in the leader's jearsey is the captain. Something to remmember
To me, Kuss has gained respect from this, while Roglic and Vingegaard lost it in my eyes. Kuss can be a leader, a team rider, whatever is needed. The other two are not dependable except to ride for themselves.
I hope the team can learn from all of this. I read somewhere that the manager told the riders that they could compete against each other on one or two of the stages. I think that it could have led to a misunderstanding between Vingegaard, Roglic and Kuss.
Why in the world would it be the "biggest betrayal and backstab in cycling history?" They all went there to race. If Kuss can't beat his teammates fair and square--with all racing--then he hardly deserves to call himself a champion. Methinks he feels too entitled.
Because it’s a team sport. We have no way of knowing if ANY grand tour winner was REALLY the strongest. Someone else on all those teams could very well have been stronger, but stuck to what they’re supposed to do: defend their current leader. Does Jonas win a Tour if Sepp rode against him? Anyone that doesn’t know this knows absolutely nothing about pro cycling.
Because its impossible to know who the strongest on the team actually is when that is changing every km of every stage. Kuss was very obviously the strongest on Tourmelet. He couldn't chase Jonas due to team tactics, but when he decided to break the rules and go he was pulling back time. He even dropped Rog in the process. In both of Jonas's attacks, he was allowed up the road on Kuss because of team tactics, not because he was strong enough to gap. Angliru is the only stage they legitimately dropped Kuss, but he still finished with the time lead. Meaning, he can claim to be the strongest rider overall. And regarless, Rog was never going to win. He was too far back by the end of Angliru even with attacking Kuss. And Jonas was only close because the team dictated Kuss let him ride off. Anyone making this, "let the strongest win" bullshit is just exposing themselves as knowing fucking nothing about cycling.
@@HolgerDanske874Most of the guys are probably good friends in real life. That is very evident to me when watching interviews and documentaries. I think that people that hate Visma and Jonas use this situation for the sake of drama. 😅
I will never like this Vuelta. Anyone who knows cycling could see Kuss was awarded this Vuelta, he didnt win it because he was the best rider, and I hate that. Imagine betting on a race and they let their helper win it. Should give people their betting money back. The strongest rider should always win. Everything else is nonsense.
What a crap team with a crap ex-doper as the decision maker/ sports director. Kuss (and Wout) seem to be the only honest members. They should leave that team.
Roglic never have the leg to win this race, if they all go selfish the best he could hope for is maybe a 2nd, Jonas was so much stronger then Roglic on second half of this race!!
![BOWKYLION - วิงวอน (ex-change) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cLdnZWDaO-w/mqdefault.jpg)
You forgot to mention that Mikel Landa helped him save the jersey on the Angliru.
That's right! My bad! I'm pinning the comment for everyone to see :)
That right there! Landa the man ! That’s was his birthday present 🎁 🎉. Kuss will never forget that ❤.Hopefully they can work together again.🙏
Like Soler helping Roglic to hold on vs Carapaz a couple of years earlier
This is a very very pro Kuss video. Anyone watching the race saw the he was the weaker of the 3, Angliru was a clear prove. Saying Kuss could have attacked aswell is directly opposite to what would be Logic due to what we witnessed@@WattsYT
@@simontoxvaerd8161 You need to listen again and hear it in context. 7:06 - if he had reacted differently to the Vingegaard move/request to attack, things might have been different (in terms of the awkward dynamic afterwards). There's no suggestion that Kuss had legs to follow, but more a commentary about the team decisions at the time that could have gone differently.
Chris Horner and Sep Kuss, the last two American Tour winners, are great ambassadors for America... humble, straight-forward, down to earth.
Don’t forget Lance and Floyd 🇺🇸
horner doped
@@CryWolfFilms just eating hamburger 🍔 bro.😎
Horner still crying to this day about how Vingegaard 'attacked' Kuss and removed him from the number 1 spot as a consequence. Horner is a douche.
Well said!
So much respect to Sep. To have that respect for his two team mates while in the Jersey, Wow that takes a good man.
If I was a tour team manager, I’d do everything possible to get Sepp on my team. He’s exactly the person I’d want representing all of my sponsors.
Imagine how often he’s turned himself inside out for others?
Richard Plugge did everything, or at least enough to get him to sign an extended deal 🤝 until 2027.
For me, the stage that put this thing into a realm none were expecting was the time trial. It's always been a bit of a throwaway stage for Kuss, unless there's KOM points in there somewhere. It's not like he doesn't try, but I think this was the first time trial he ever did on the World Tour where he was all-in, everything on the table.
Everyone thought he'd lose over a minute, some thinking he would lose over two, just because his teammates were time trial juggernauts and he was still "just" Sepp Kuss. But he came out still in the red jersey, and then the "fun began."
What a unique situation that was though. You can't blame Roglic for wanting to be the guy. He has been that guy for years. He was the one who got Jumbo really going years ago, helping them to be the best GC team on the World Tour.
I'm glad for Kuss. He deserved it, but he also earned it. And now Jumbo has three grand tour wins in one year, all by different riders. Will we ever see that again?
Great narration, btw. That was a well done video.
I agree, I was actually very shocked that Sepp could TT so well. Remco performed a bit below his usual and Sepp way above his usual and it was magical to watch. Sepp usually uses the ITT as almost like a day off
AI narration
@@Maussiegamer That is not AI.
Vingegaard decided who was going to win the Vuelta23, cause he was obviously the strongest. Had Vingegaard not been there as a buffer, Roglic for sure would have attacked, and did multiple times but with Vingegaard right on his wheel. Kuss was a class act all the way, and i can say from a danish POV, we all pulled for Kuss!
Bullshit. Except that on stage 13 Vingegaard attacks Kuss and Roglic. He gain some time but not enough to jump over Roglic. On stage 16 he attacks again, whilst Roglic stays with Kuss again. This time he takes enough time to jump over Roglic. And now's Roglic villain? Angliru happend AFTER that. Not to mention that Primoz towed Vingegaard's ass to the finish line on Stage 3.
I am wondering if people who comment 2023 Vuelta actully watched it. Danes have somewhat twisted memory on what actually happened at this Vuelta and how it went from chronological perspective.
@@infokanal9317 Agreed. I think Roglic was the strongest rider. And the thing is, he was targeting the Vuelta all season. I believe the season goal for him was to take his fourth Vuelta title and they brought Jonas to support him. But after Sepp got the big lead in that break, everything changed. I could understand if Roglic was upset about that. Whether it was Primoz or Jonas that was truly the strongest, that can remain up for debate. But one thing I'm confident in, it was NOT Sepp.
I think part of it was also jostling between Jonas and Primoz over who is the strongest grand tour rider between them and should be given future leadership at the TDF ect.
Agreed 100%.
What frustrated me with this situation was everyone was shitting on Primoz for dropping Kuss on the Angliru but no one criticised Yonas for attacking the day before. Being a huge Primoz fan, I wanted him to win and the Giro/ Vuelta double would have been fantastic. However, should Rog & Jonas have worked for Kuss and ensured his victory? Yes, I believe they should have no questions asked. Kuss domestique duties have second to none, he’s the best mountain domestique in the world but you can’t blame Primoz for wanting to win, at the beginning on the year his schedule included leadership at the Vuelta, he was also the leader at the beginning of the race which was then moved to co-leadership which would have probably hurt a little, it kinda shows the team cannot fully rely on him even though he was probably the strongest rider throughout the Vuelta. It’s definitely a tough one.
Exactly
yep its so bullshit for primoz the whole thing
This video and y'all in the comments here are being way too harsh. This was a completely unprecedented situation that they had to navigate on the fly. They had to balance winning the race with the roles and responsibilities they agreed on beforehand, loyalty towards Kuss, and the personal ambitions of two grand tour winners. There's multiple ways to go about it and there simply was no playbook for these type of situations. In the end it all worked out. I'd say they handled it reasonably well. It could have been better. But considering the circumstances they did a pretty good job.
And remember: these are professionals and its competitive sports. You don't become the best like Roglic and Vingegaard unless you're somewhat selfish.
@@jmsytbe huh I hadn't thought about it like that. Interesting take
He has such a well thought-out, articulated, and mature attitude toward this, and the team dynamic generally. I root for him for this reason, even separate from his physical talent.
Agreed. Sepp handled this situation with such class. I honestly don't know if I would have been able to do the same.
This was first and foremost a DS problem. Without clear leadership the riders were forced to make up the rules on the fly.
I don’t remember a GT where the domestique was in a position to win and the GC rider was in a position to take the lead.
Plenty of times has the domestique been stronger than the GC ride,r often signaling a change of the guard.
I don’t blame JV, albeit a bit selfish IMO, for asking permission, but the DS should have shut that down.
And the DS definitely should have shut down what happened on Angliru. Roglic shouldn’t have attacked, end of story. Not sure if JV should have followed or stayed, it sure did put Roglic dreams of a 4th Vuelta win on ice, but it Sepp would have lost less time if Jonas stayed. However, there is a chance that they would then have contend with a combative/hopeful Roglic in the last mountain stages, if JV hadn’t shadowed his every move.
And all attacks by Jonas before were fine lol? Rogič attacked once with too much deficit. I know I know I'm paranoid, Jonas never came to win but to support Sepp 😂😂
He wanted that stage for his friend that had an accident and was in the hospital.
Having the full podium was a new situation for the team and with no precedence, there were uncertainties how to deal with it. They made the right decision and all but one rider agreed to that.....
Good answer from Kuss, Roglic would have not won the giro if Kuss wasn’t there. And vingerganrd would have had it more difficult. So yes, I see he really won the Vuelta, he was not given it, he earned it
👍
I always said that Vingegaard only attacked because Kuss allowed. They have their intercommunicators for some reason and Yonas would never attack in such situation without permission. Go go Visma Lease a Bike
what I dont understand is, how Evenepoel became the hero for not giving ANY of his team mates a chance for a stage victory, when he lost the classification.
Great report, tour cycling is a team event, the winners can’t do it without the team.
Cycling is a team sport, none of these riders can win a Grand Tour on their own. Some argue: "Let the best man win". Which is true, but not when your teammate is in the leaders jersey. Teammates should never compete against other teammates. Instead, you fall in line and support each other. Which, fortunately, Jumbo decided to do .
Good pronounciation of "Vingegaard", as a Dane, i am impressed ;-)
Kind of takes me back to TdF 1986.
Just watching that Angliru stage, something just felt off about it and just way Jonas and Roglic were interacting with each other after line, something was amiss. It's probably a good thing Roglic left when he did or else things could have blown up more this coming year
Kuss earned that win. Just like Rogla and Ving earned their wins with his help. You don't attack your teammate in the leaders jersey, you support and protect.
When it comes down to the nitty-gritty, Cycling is no team sport!
No real news. I think that the tactics made him earn it.
The moral of the story is to only have one leader. I think the fans would rather the GC talent was distributed across the teams but we know some teams are richer than others. Kuss needs to have the full weight of responsibility on his shoulders to prove he wasn’t just a fortunate side effect of the other teams having to watch out for Roglic and Vingegaard. I’m not saying he didn’t deserve
his win and I’m really pleased he did. I’m just suggesting that in years to come his win will continue to be debated.
A lot of us will remember Greg Lemond complaining about Bernard Hinault’s antics in the 1985 Tour which he said breached the agreement made in the 1984 Tour that Hinault would ride for him the next year. Hinault’s point was that by attacking but failing proved Lemond was the strongest rider in the race and there would never be any doubt that he deserved his win.
Then there was the Giro in 1987 when Stephen Roche took matters into his own hands by attacking his team leader, Roberto Viscentini, and going on to win with the assistance of just one teammate (if I remember correctly) and Robert Miller. All good fun.
Kuss is a classy guy. I am so glad he won
Sepp Kuss was not supposed to do so well in the TT stage. His not bad TT ruined everyone else's perfect plan.
There is such a thing as too many cooks. However, Jumbo-Visma on this occasion got away with it rather smoothly, and in twenty years time people will only see that podium with three teammates on it, and this backstage confusion will be forgotten. So chapeau to them, at the end of the day. Sure, some of the more conservative cycling fans didn't like what they were witnessing, but this is just what happens when one team is far too good for the competition. In reality the third best rider in the race took the number one spot.
And I don't blame them for giving it to a domestique, especially when that domestique is the most well-liked guy in the peloton AKA Mr Sepp Kuss.
Sure was a bit of extra excitement in a race where nobody could take on Jumbo-Visma anyways.
I think that Vingegaard was okay with Kuss winning, thats why that decision was made. The only one that sounded differently was Roglic, but they were in a situation were either Kuss or Vingegaard would win, that was also why Vingegaard stayed with Roglic.
Kuss, what an amazing persona. Super humble, strong and loyal. He deserved that victory and he had legs to capture it. Vingegard can only learn from him and Roglic did good to change the team. Hope Kuss will prove his worth as a leader in 2024 as well.
Indeed! I think we all hope he gets the chance :)
Vingegaard already waited for Pogacar, gave ITT victory to Van Aert and he wanted to help Kuss win the Vuelta. Vingegaard doesn't need to learn anything from Kuss.
Interesting but two things are missing. What did he say on the radio when he got dropped on the Angliru? Did he feel Roglic was less "loyal" than Vingo?
Breaking news, Kuss extended his contract thru 2027, so apparently he his very happy @ Visma, he will probably be their gc man for the Vuelta
I think vingegaard wants to win the vuelta
Is the voice over some weird AI bot using the cloned voice of that guy on GCN racing?
Truly deserved. 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
Vingegaard could have won that race. The only reason Vingegaard left Kuss was to follow Roglic who definitely wasn't in line with the team strategy.
did you even watch the whole tour? primoz attacked once, jonas tried multiple times. are you dane? seems like alll of you have not been watching closely
It's still a weird situation, when the team didn't made a clear plan for a GrandTour in the beginning. It sounds like they first made a plan when half of the tour was done.
Nobody expected Kuss to win red jersey
yeah right - but did JV had no plan in the beginning? Was their plan bad or did maybe somebody failed the plan? That's the interesting thing... Who was listed #1 on Team JV before starting the Vuelta???Was it Vingo?Roglic?Kuss? Someone else? @@romanvercier3556
It seemed like a gift and gifts are strange at this level. Im still a big Sepp fan though.
Incredible race and Kuss definitely deserved it but he’s delusional thinking he was the strongest in the race. Promoz wanted it and could’ve taken it. Jonas didn’t want it, but would prefer to take it himself than give it to Primoz, and he could’ve done so easily.
We have all seen situations where Sepp Kuss could have crushed the field in the mountains and he didn't.
I really like watching your videos 👍👌
Glad you like them! :)
Needs to move teams even if riglic left the team.
He won it on the TT! That's when he prove it to his teammates he was the strongest on La Vuelta! It das awsome to see such a dominance from one team once again
??? Sorry but i dont' understand that argument.... on the TimeTrial he wasn't even Top10, but Roglic came in Third and Vingo was 10. place.... So what makes him "the strongest" in that stage? Roglic was over 50 seconds faster... i mean with Team JV was extremely dominant you're completely right.
Roglic and Vingo should have raced.
7:30 no this is some bullshit i am sorry. I know sepp is very likeable and all that, but he was NOT the strongest in the vuelta. He only won cus he was given that one stage, all the other stages vingegaard and roglic was faster than him, both in TT and on the climbs. I think vingegaard easily could have won it all on the angliru stage, if he had just given it all he could. You could see him chilling on the climb behind roglic. I do think Sepp deserved the win, but only as a "thank you for your loyalty" kindda win. He didnt deserve it as simply the best rider of the vuelta win.
Cycling is a team sport more than an individual sport. Roglic and Vingegaard would not have won their GTs without Kuss' help
but he is the strongest this season 🤷🏻♂️ being in the 3 grand tours at the same season and helping your teammates won. Thats a statement..
He pulled them up the stage then dropped him. But then ended up cutting his losses ....strongest then is up for interpretation.
@@larkiess kuss is acc so overrated
@@tobiasdencker853 he competed in all 3 grand tours in a year and still kept up with all the top riders in the Vuelta. He 100% deserves it. Cope more
just because you have the leaders jersey doesnt mean youre the leader. sepp is more than worthy of the title.
Sepp is a hero for us American cyclists! SELFLESS as can be. Visma has some amazing riders. Wout and Jonas love in the tdf is amazing too. Sepp is the ultra domestique and seeing him in red was 👌
Those Americans who really thinks Sepp was the strongest rider and Jonas couldn’t have won😂.. well Sepp has told he’s co captain at TDF this season.. let’s see how that goes 😊
what's with the AI chatbot nonsense
Nice VID
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it :)
Vingegard saved Sepp. Jonas was the buffer between Sepp and Roglic. If Roglic attacked he would never win because Jonas was stronger. For Roglic the choice was losing to Vingegard ore letting the win to Kuss. Easy as that. Vinegard was the trusted trammate for Sepp.
Without a doubt the best personality in cycling right now, and that's with Pogacar, Mohoric, Cav and many more currently on the circuit. I'd put him as fourth best rider overall as well.
Sepp Kuss should be leader somewhere else...maybe in Movistar...or help Soudal Quick-step
Jonas Vingegaard gave him that victory !
I lock Kuss, I love the fact that cycling is a team sport, but at the same time also felt Jumbo Visma made a bit of a mockery of the sport by gifting a GT like that.
I love Sepp as a rider, especially as an American because he makes a great ambassador for American cycling, but he got gifted this Vuelta win. If Vingegaard was allowed to win, he would have easily. If Roglic was allowed to, he would have easily as well. Kuss was handed this victory and it feels tainted
you dont win a grand tour by yourself. period. not jonas, not primosz, not pog, not even lance with all the doping in the world. its a TEAM effort to get you into a position to win and support you along the way. roglic and jonas would have a lot more work to do themselves without kuss doing so much work chasing and setting tempo. does roglic win a giro without kuss? does jonas get the gap over pog if he has to chase down everything himself?
cycling at its core is a team effort to win anything, kuss earned the respect of his team mates from his years of dedicated selfless work. kuss earned the lead by going on the attack and getting a gap putting him into the lead. he then had the TT of his life from his own efforts to hold onto the lead and minimize the loss. he then minimized any losses throughout the rest of the race holding onto the lead. he COULD have followed jonas but thats not being a very good team mate so he sat on. kuss earned every bit of that vuelta win.
another point to consider is the strongest rider doesnt always win the race, if we just cared who was the fastest wed let them all do a TT over the course of every stage.
tl:dr; kuss earned the vuelta win
@@chriswitek9455 by your logic it's actually Robert Gesink the one who earned Vuelta, not Kuss :P Maybe they should put Gesink into early breakaway instead of Kuss? What are you saying?
I mean why do you feel like one domestique is above all other domestiques who also work hard, some even harder, than Kuss?
I am pretty sure that you're American and you're biased but still... some cyclists work hard to pull half of the peloton for miles and miles for days and weeks, not just few miles at two or three designated mountain stages.
tl:dr; amercians have somewhat strange understanding of World Tour cycling.
what's with the AI narrator with terrible grammar? Is no one else extremely distracted by that?
Thanks for pointing it out! We'd appreciate some feedback on what wasn't grammatically correct.
Did he lose the jersey in the TT? No. There you go then.
It was a nice gift but it could have been nicer.
The real drama here is why are you all watching history repeat itself and ignore it. One team this much better then everyone else. History will tell you there's are very obvious reason for this, and you all choose to ignore it.
Sepp's win biggest gift of his life so far.
GC Kuss!! He won that Grand Tour, no questions! Kudos to Kuss!
Why couldn't he stay with Vinegaard, at least.
Were things actually awkward truly behind the scenes? It doesn't matter... what matters is that this guy was worthily rewarded - either because of his talent or because of his spirit of sacrifice - for being a domestique for all 3 top stage tours in 2023, helping Roglic win the "Giro d'Italia," Vingegaard win the "Tour de France." His smile is so sunny, genuine, that he is loved by cycling fans all over the world, no matter the nationality or team he belongs to. Finally, we recognize that in any other team except Evenepoel's Soudal Quick-Step, he could easily be a full captain. I loved Sepp😘
Kuss is fine rider. And had great vuelta. But at vuelta 23 kuss was 3d best gc rider, and was allowed to win gc.
The theme was “let the best win, the road will decide.”
But jumbo management caved to social media and decided to let kuss win it.
Unfair! Now roglic might never be the rider w the most vuelta wins in history.
Unfair! Now vingegaard might be the rider to never win all 3 gts.
Jumbo was rt to begin w-let the best win.
Ugh
Milking a dead cow in the off-season, arent' ya?
One looks like the human you'd want your kid to grow into. 2 look like they're all about themselves and shouldn't be trusted. Shine and shade became part of all 3's legacy in that tour. Bravo Sepp
Do you know, that your idiocy makes your beloved Sepp look really bad?
You want your kid to boast how he was the strongest and then find out he only won because of politics 😂
Sepp Kuss has made significant contributions to the team, and his victory is commendable. Since cycling is a team sport he certainly deserved to win the Vuelta. I hope that jumbo and Vingegaard will learn from this experience.
Videos like this just hurt the sport. This was done to poison and create hate against some competitors. I will never watch a video of this guy again.
gift win, yes yes he helped primoz and jonas win their tour, but if you cover the name of the domestique in the teams, what he did can be also done with riders like jorgenson , ayuso, almeida(my point is what he did was nothing special). i dont care what you say, if jonas or primoz decided f all of this rode harder there would be no grand tour for sepp kuss .
and if sepp kuss is really strong enough to win a tour and has a problem with doing years of riding as a domestique for visma, why not transfer to another team and lead his own team? can he do it? its not caste system like he claimed, its about balls system. pretty sure these super domestique like sepp kuss has offers from other teams to be leaders however he doesnt have the balls to do it. meanwhile he wants to have a grand tour title because he helped his teammates get theirs like its not his job or not in their contract. talk about privilege, riding as a support when the competition is hard but when theres no competition other than his teammates now he wants the title like he actually earned it. ill say it again a gift win, if I was primoz id leave that team too, with a diva domestique and another leader how can you get your spot in that team?
Wait wait…so Kuss felt strong…and that he could win the stage…and got gapped. Further evidence the political favorite won…but no the outright strongest 😂
Sealed with a Kuss
The best should win the grand tour. Kuss was not the best..
I think it was only the press who made this a drama.
If Vingegaard and Roglic was forced to wait for Kuss on the stage, they could,all three, have lost valuable time to the other teams, especially if Kuss was breaking down.
I'm glad Kuss won, it's OK that Vingegaard and Roglic gave some payback to a loyal teammate.
Cycling is a teamsport with a individual winner and there is where it differs from other sports.
Kuss is cute, but he was not the strongest at all. He won due to a 'popular vote' and the fact he is an American with all the media weight that brings. Was he a Portuguese or a Polish rider he would never pull it off.
The Tour will be fascinating this year. I don't see Kuss pulling Jonas all the way the big climbs anymore. Kuss should be chasing stage wins. If Jonas can't hold the wheel, then Kuss powers away for the win. And we should see some explosive accelerations from Sepp.
Prepare to be surprised... Kuss will 100% be helping Vingegaard next summer, just like Yates did last summer for Pogacar.
Vingegaard not being able to hold the wheel of kuss 💀
@@HolgerDanske874 Yes. Sepp is a team player and has been a wonderful domestique, but he is going to be looking for stage wins. He has said as much. He now knows and embraces his GC ability. If he is in yellow, he won't be 100 per cent for Vingegaard. Will Jonas ever pull Sepp up the big climbs? Doubt it.
@@JeffreyHoeper Kuss is not on the same level as Pogacar and Vingegaard. Kuss will be 100% a domestique for Vingegaard. Of course, Visma-LAB will try to keep Kuss in the GC, but just like in Tour de France 2023 where Yates was a domestique for Pogacar even when wearing the yellow jersey, the same will be true for Kuss.
@@HolgerDanske874 Sepp needs to find out if he is at that level. He is close. Finished 3 grand tours last year and won the final one. Well up on GC in each tour. But I agree that Pogacar, Vingegaard, and Roglic are the guys to beat. That's why I see Sepp chasing stage wins at the Tour . . . and to do that he needs to get Jonas off his wheel.
How management of TJV handled this is horrific. How Vingegard and Roglič handled this is horrific. I mean. On hit B-day they dropped him on Angrilu, where he could have won. I love it when Sepp says. If we have a cast system, then the one in the leader's jearsey is the captain. Something to remmember
To me, Kuss has gained respect from this, while Roglic and Vingegaard lost it in my eyes. Kuss can be a leader, a team rider, whatever is needed. The other two are not dependable except to ride for themselves.
I hope the team can learn from all of this. I read somewhere that the manager told the riders that they could compete against each other on one or two of the stages. I think that it could have led to a misunderstanding between Vingegaard, Roglic and Kuss.
Kusk paid to pull not to win
Why in the world would it be the "biggest betrayal and backstab in cycling history?" They all went there to race. If Kuss can't beat his teammates fair and square--with all racing--then he hardly deserves to call himself a champion. Methinks he feels too entitled.
It certainly looked like a betrayal at the time :)
Because it’s a team sport. We have no way of knowing if ANY grand tour winner was REALLY the strongest. Someone else on all those teams could very well have been stronger, but stuck to what they’re supposed to do: defend their current leader.
Does Jonas win a Tour if Sepp rode against him?
Anyone that doesn’t know this knows absolutely nothing about pro cycling.
Because its impossible to know who the strongest on the team actually is when that is changing every km of every stage. Kuss was very obviously the strongest on Tourmelet. He couldn't chase Jonas due to team tactics, but when he decided to break the rules and go he was pulling back time. He even dropped Rog in the process. In both of Jonas's attacks, he was allowed up the road on Kuss because of team tactics, not because he was strong enough to gap. Angliru is the only stage they legitimately dropped Kuss, but he still finished with the time lead. Meaning, he can claim to be the strongest rider overall.
And regarless, Rog was never going to win. He was too far back by the end of Angliru even with attacking Kuss. And Jonas was only close because the team dictated Kuss let him ride off. Anyone making this, "let the strongest win" bullshit is just exposing themselves as knowing fucking nothing about cycling.
It isn't. Author is a Pogacar fan. And maybe just easily manipulated by Karens on social media.
@@HolgerDanske874Most of the guys are probably good friends in real life. That is very evident to me when watching interviews and documentaries. I think that people that hate Visma and Jonas use this situation for the sake of drama. 😅
I will never like this Vuelta. Anyone who knows cycling could see Kuss was awarded this Vuelta, he didnt win it because he was the best rider, and I hate that.
Imagine betting on a race and they let their helper win it. Should give people their betting money back.
The strongest rider should always win. Everything else is nonsense.
another video trying NOT to name lance armstrong as a grand tour winner
What a crap team with a crap ex-doper as the decision maker/ sports director. Kuss (and Wout) seem to be the only honest members. They should leave that team.
Roglic never have the leg to win this race, if they all go selfish the best he could hope for is maybe a 2nd, Jonas was so much stronger then Roglic on second half of this race!!
It is not ˈjəmbo, it is Yumbo.