The Vuelta tends to be wild, many crazy races over the years. Not always a good thing. Usually seems like they have five people running it with a $10k budget.
Landa rode well for Kuss, probably saved Kuss's red jersey, similar to the way Kuss saved the entire Giro for Roglic earlier this year. It is what it is.
Jonas saved Kuss jersey ... he could have easily taken it today.... but he obviously didnt even try..... he just went with roglic to show he is the strongest rider
@@lordad you're wrong - Jumbo has a clear tactics of the third guy in GC attacking the bunch (earlier Jonas, now Primoz), because the 3rd guy is not a direct threat to Sepp. Jonas shouldn't follow Primoz when he attacked Landa, but rather stay with Sepp.
@@morvudd1165 it was not what Roglic said. In Roglic words, he would have attacked even if he was second, and to be fair he let it open to attack again tomorrow. An absolute disgrace.
Being 4 minutes ahead of everyone else, I think it would be ridiculous if Jumbo don't try to give Kuss the Overall Win. He has done so much for them and has put all his personal ambitions aside, despite being capable of leading a team and being a Top 10 Grand Tour finisher in his own right.
I don't agree, I think the best should win. If Roglic and Vinegeard would have to hold back to give Kuss the win, what kind of victory is that? It's nothing. I think Kuss even said that he didn't want to win like that.
Who would want to "win" a sports event solely because their friends handed them the victory? If you're someone with a genuine sports mindset, you'd prefer finishing last on your own merits than winning an event out of pity from your friends.
Kuss did a good job minimizing the damage today. If he has a good day tomorrow it could be enough. He has to mark his teammates very carefully. Every man for himself at this point
This is the dumbest comment. Cycling is and ALWAYS has been a TEAM sport. When an American is in the lead it’s suddenly every man for himself. Convenient hahaha. Poor sport euros once again.
As far as I heard, Sepp wanted to fight for the GC and not have it gifted to him (the DS said something along these lines). I guess a GC win feels much better, if you actually have some competition :D
@@luckyspurs I respect them very much! and in my country Jonas is loved and respected by all. So please talk for yourself, when your feelings are hurt, just because they want to win :)
I think Sep want the fight for it, not to be given a victory. And remember how Jonas respectfully waited for his competitor Pogacar last year in the TDF, when Pogacar fell on a descent. Definitely, there is something else going on, that what you line up
Sepp is such a great team player and so optimistic. He has to be the best politician. Sepp has been the primary climbing domestic for both of them for five grand tours in a row. Not to mention all the other stage races he has helped win. It’s a pity that these teammates don’t understand that they didn’t do it by themselves. It’s even worse that management is blowing apart the team they fought so hard to build. Maybe because Jumbo Visma is not sponsoring in the future, the team won’t be able to pay Sepp, Jonas and Primos, so they are willing to burn a promising American, to keep one star. The worst part was, yesterday was Sepp’s birthday! Happy Birthday Sepp Kuss!
Jonas behaviour today was a disgrace. No loyalty whatsoever. Jumbo management needs to get a grip as the way Kuss is being treated is not playing well with most cyclists especially in America! If Kuss does not win the team will explode. Reminds me of Movistar with their three leaders.
@@parishoffice6769 what exactly did Jonas do today ?? Kuss was the one saying in the radio that they should go for it roglic was the one pulling had Jonas won the stage he would have probably been in red now but did he ?? no .. he literally didn't do anything other then just follow roglic and was even the one staying with kuss and tried to bring him with them the expert commentators even saw that lol so why do you keep the hate on jonas when he literally is a teamplayer, why are you all such bitches lol its a bike race were the strongest rider wins its not a kindergadern for please can i win today. Kuss are allowed to drive his chance that is his role but the other 2 are also allowed so stop bitching like little school girls just because Kuss can't follow the two strongest that happends to be his teamates true but this isn't football its an individual team sport. name any other team that would not allow their 3 strongest rider to ride for the win?? ineos is looking for a GT rider who do you think they would pick of thouse 3 Kuss, Roglic or Vingegaard ?? I agree that Kuss is a strong rider and is a big help bit even he doesn't want to win knowing he didn't win it by being the strongest. Who ever wants to win like that. If he wins its all because roglic and vingegaard wants him to win but its their decition and no matter what they decide it will be fair. That Kuss was allowed to drive his chance is to be treat him well.
@@luckyspurs the same thing happened with ESPN latam debate after the stage, I watched some of the coverage of Eurosport SPA and ENG as well, and everyone is mad on Sepps behalf. This quickly turned into a soap opera thanks to the media, honestly I'm rooting for Sepp but I understand if either Roglic or Vingegaard win, because in the end thats their job. Maybe bringing Vingegaard to La Vuelta was unnecessary and "undermined" Roglic chances even more so with the Kuss situation.
Sepp Kuss has been there for both of them-JV and PR-working and sacrificing for years during their tour wins. Yet, they attack him whenever the opportunity arises, instead of helping him to control things. And Jumbo’s boss is full of it when he said they weren’t attacking Sepp. I saw it with my own eyes, are you kidding me? I hope they come to their ethical senses and support Sepp for the win otherwise in my book, it’s total betrayal. Ironically, we can thank Landa, an adversary, for keeping Sepp in the red jersey-not his teammates.
I agree and disagree. You make good points. But remember the Jumbo Boss' responsibility is to the team. You need contingencies. Anything can happen until the final day. But to show appreciation, realize that Roglic and Vingegaard didn't nuke it together, they just rode away. Enough to push gaps, yet also enough that if Kuss has the legs, he won't be out of GC. They can always try give it to him on the last day. There's 4 stages left...
@@asnark7115 Yeah, Roglic would have had no probem sprinting the last K to take the win. This is disgraceful beyond words. I's Sepp's third grand tour of the year and the first two he worked his ass off for Jonas and Primos so they could win and they can't turn a pedal for their most valuable teammate. Sad.
Lol definitely not cruel. If he cannot follow attack why he would deserve winning GC? Let the strongest guy win and leave morality aside. This is racing.
@@Karollenart They've all got egos, but some are more appreciative than others. It's a team sport, the dynamics within a team have always created "polemics" , as the euros would call it. Lots of ink will be spilled. It's not a simple point race full of independents, as you would naively have us believe. This is big time team sport with a long storied history.... some of the world's best athletes are writing this era's chapter in the iconic grand tours.
@@Karollenart Do you think that in the past, Kuss had the opportunity to take a stage win away from one of his team leaders because he was having a better day, but didn't?
Yes, obviously that would. But why shouldn't the three of them RACE for the win? Isn't that what competition is about? Maybe, just maybe, if they have a clear 1-2-3 unassailable lead on the penultimate stage, then they can jig it however they like. That's up to them and their team directors, not us mappers posting comments here..
@@Difdauf Nope, it was the ultimate team play. Former yellow jersey holder Rolf Sorensen: "They are bolting from Sepp because he let them - Sepp knows that if he forces JV/PR to stay with him and Sepp blows up, it could mean red jersey losses for all 3 of them. It is clear to me (to Rolf) that Sepp needed a breather but JV/PR had lots left in the tank and needed to make sure Jumbo had 2 if not 3 in the Top 3 still, with a buffer to go - This is the ultimate team play from Sepp and it paid off with Sepp getting a break and still getting back time before the line".
Honestly shocking to see. Even hours later, I'm still speechless. People who talk about 'no one deserves gifts' don't understand cycling it seems. Its about teamwork and you constantly gift each other help, lead-outs, pacing, protection from the wind, etc, etc. Kuss has done it for every grand tour they've won. Not only did they not return the favor, they attacked him outright. Shocking. One can only hope Kuss somehow holds on and wins, despite having no teammates, a field of riders still trying to get a win and his own teammates even fighting against him. If he pulls it off, at least there will be absolutely no talks of 'gifts' after this.
If they attack him again, it will destroy their reputations and the team. Maybe team management can step in. I doubt either agree to work with Sepp. However, I am hoping one does agree and supports Sepp when the other one attacks.
@@bg147 I dont think rog can win over 1 minute today. If Jonas plays to support Sepp instead of attacking for no reason, it could end all good. Otherwise, I hope both the "leaders" lose all the respect they have in peloton and community forever. Which is not going to happen, unfortunatelly
Exactly. Jonas was kinda gifted a minute on Tuesday by capilalizing on the top positions of kuss and roglic. Roglic was the strongest from the first week and IIT. He could have fight for his position. But Jonas being lower in classification gets the green card to attack in the 3 leader strategy. By doing so he leapfrogs roglic without roglic fully contesting. And now he can even leapfrog kuss
Yeah, to the people who say "it's about being the strongest rider", why don't Roglic and Vingegaard pull on the flats rather than letting van Baarle carry them. Because it's a team sport and Roglic and Vingegaard if they were in a 2 man team rather than an 8 man one would have half the stage wins.
The thing that rubs me wrong is that Kuss works for these two to win important stages of grand tours. Now he’s got the leader’s jersey and neither one will give him the courtesy of a pull. Imagine if Kuss had dropped either one to go grab a stage win the the Giro or the Tour.
He told Them to fo for it. He Said in an interview after. He dont want to be the Leader and the one to win. If he does it is bevises he asked for it. If he doesnt it is most likely because he dont ive much of a shit
He is too nice to do that. I hope Kuss would drop them in the future and say "I believe in them being able to win it and I support them (but I still drop them)". The post race interview are some of the most ridiculous and dramatic interviews.
Before this stage, the only potential threats left to Jumbo finishing 1, 2, 3 on GC were Ayuso and Mas. Both had fallen a long way behind by the time the three Jumbo riders were left as the leading group of three going up the last climb. There was no reason to ride away from Kuss other than the rivalry between Jonas and Primoz was too intense to obey team orders. Some people are questioning whether Kuss will go elsewhere because of this. I am wondering which of Jonas and Primoz will leave.
if I were to guess, it would be Primoz. I think there was talk that Trek really wanted to pick him up. And I agree that I think Jumbo would want Sepp to stay since he's such a powerhouse for their GC wins, they would probably pay a lot for him to stay
@@arthurreyes2632Hard disagree. I'd go with letting Primoz go. He's highly capable of winning but so prone to crashing. At least with Jonas + a domestique like Sepp (who could potientially be a GC rider if he's protected/trained to be one), they could still take on mountains easily.
My biggest cheer of the race so far was seeing Kuss stick to Landa and pull back some seconds. Would be one of those iconic sporting moments if Kuss goes on and wins in Madrid, But I think the ego's of Roglic and Vingegaard will prevent it.
Vingegaard stated in an interview that he wanted to see Kuss win the Vuelta. I guess it all comes down to what TJV decides but I could see them ride it defensively to the end now that they all three have a pretty sizeable lead in the GC
@@matthewwoolf6198 according to that argument, domestiques shouldn't exist. Would Roglic have won the Giro if Kuss wasn't there for him? Maybe, maybe not.
The way it's going Roglic and Vingegaard will attack Kuss on the final flat stage, just to break every cycling convention and decency they haven't already trashed all over.
@@Frostbiker Roglic has had more than one GC saved because a teammate saved his ass when he fades at the end of stage races. He would most definitely have lost at least one Giro and a Paris-Nice if it wasn't for a teammate.
I just want to point out a few things: 1) Jonas looked VERY comfortable in Roglic' wheel and I have little doubt that he could have dropped Roglic and taken the red jersey if he had wanted to. This tells me that he is infact not just "going for it". 2) It is one thing to gift stage wins to teammates as we've seen plenty of times in the past (including by Jonas and Primoz) and quite another for the strongest rider in the peloton to gift a grand tour to a teammate. After his sickness has evaporated, Jonas IS the strongest rider in the peloton, probably even by far. Him gifting the Vuelta to Sepp would probably be the biggest gift given to a teammate in cycling history. 3) Sepp has been the best super domestique in the world over the last few years, no doubt about that, but it is ridiculous to talk about how Sepp has sacrificed for Jonas and Primoz. To ride for them is literally his JOB and he gets paid handsomely for it and has become one of the most popular riders in the world because of it. Probably a better deal than being a tier 2 captain on a smaller team. Regardless, none of the "sacrifices" that Sepp has made even begins to compare to sacrificing a grand tour win. Jonas can complete a historic tour-vuelta double. Primoz can win a historic fourth Vuelta. You don't even get to that place unless you are single-mindedly competitive. It is not a small thing to ask these riders to give it up when it is within their grasp or in Jonas' case, 100% there for the taking if he wants it. 4) Everybody has said that there is an agreement on the team that if one of the three gets dropped, the other two doesn't wait around for them. Of course it can definitely be argued that the Angliru was different because they were just those three Jumbo riders ahead of everybody else, but still. 5) Yes, I also want Sepp to win and want the fairytale ending. I think a key reason why so much fuss is being out of this is exactly because everybody loves Sepp. But I must say I object to the villanization of Jonas and Primoz.
I can just feel the relationship on the Jumbo Visma team breaking apart. Sometimes the bigger goal of team cohesion is greater than the goal of wining a grand tour. It is ironic that while dominating this tour with 1, 2 and 3 on the GC they are looking like the team that is losing the most.
Hopefully Kuss and Roglic both refuse to help Vingegaard in the Tour de France. Kuss by leaving, Roglic by attacking him every day (and I say that as someone who hates Roglic and Vingegaard now and knows that hurts Roglic as much as it will Vingegaard).
Even Froome came back to Wiggins, he was just like 1% as famous as Bradley at the time and wanted people to know he could have won it and was a future GC man. Even that was against what cycling is supposed to be, but this is 100 times worse.
@@itspaddyd and what? Who will win vuelta ,have to ride with teammates in group too. He deserves not to win vuelta when he is slower then roglic or vinge. He couldnt hold the back wheel at the end of race..vinge easy..so roglic..logical then
I remember Laurent Jalabert in this very race, trying desperately to let a journeyman rider from another team win a stage as both knew that it would probably be the guy's only day in the sun. That was class as opposed to whatever this is.
Its a completely different scenario though. We are talking a GT. Jonas has done that and even given his stage win to teammembers. And it actually if you look seems like hes doing it again on a whole GT. He had the legs to take 1 minute on everyone if he tried on Angliru he looked completely calm and in no effort up that mountain.
I was waiting for Horner to rock up on his rim brake Madone out of mountain mist and drag Sepp back up to the front. His own team mates FULLY dogged him up the Angliru!
It makes no sense to go up the road further without Kuss. He has been there for both those riders when they have needed help winning. Not sure the tactic to push him off the win. No teammate should be battling to stay in the race lead vs. his own teammates who they have helped win major races. This is his 3rd grand tour this year and Primoz has fresher legs - he should of backed off and all crossed the line together showing support for Kuss. Just really makes me made to see how he was treated on his birthday for crying out loud!
On steep climbs like that there is no help from teammates - it is every man for him self. So if Jonas had stayed it would not have changed a thing. Hollow win for Sepp if he cannot even beat his own teammates. There is a reason he is a domestic and not a captain - he is not strong enough. You know nothing about professional cycling thats clear.
@@Martin-ls9bz He had Landa so someone was there.. Face it he is not strong enough to be a captain. Hollow win if Sepp cannot even beat his teammates. Would look stupid if Jonas and Primus stayed behind and then Sepp goes down the day after and they loose the Vuelta due to holding back better riders. Respect to the 3 guys for letting the best man Win. Fouls saying different knows nothing about professional Cycling.
Jumbo Visma communication in times of a shitstorm because of their tactics is like: SEPP🙂: thinks the "desires and whishes in the race are by now all satisfied" in his opinion he wants to go "to the next stages in a more defensive way" JONAS🌚: hopes "Sepp wins the GC" (but attacks with Roglic anyways and almost takes GC) ROGLIC😐: "is here to race" (wich means he wants to attack an see who's best) but at the same time "is the first who wants Sepp to win GC" I think there will be some tense Team Meetings to come. Hopefully Sepp can prevail in them. In my opinion the director would be wise to start giving clear instructions to avoid further tensions in the team. (The quotes all come from interviews after today's stage)
uhm no? they clearly have great communication. They probably just said "the best man wins the gc" but in a more calm version, where they don't attack eachother non stop. JV, Sepp and Roglic all look happy so why make drama out of it?
Sepp can not loose more time, but by god if Vingegaard goes past him without another rider of another team also threatening Kuss's position I will severely dislike him. Jonas has won, and will win, enough. This one, if he can manage, should be for Kuss who always rode in service off others.
@@waxyy2947 if they really said that THAT would be the epitomy of bad communication/PR, stealing the teams most loyal helpers victory without any reason
Helping team members win happens, especially from leaders that appreciate/ want continued support from their team riders who sacrifice their own glory. Wout for LaPorte at this years Gent Wevelgem.. maybe Wout needs to make a few calls 😊
Jonas' attack yesterday made more sense than him sticking to Primoz' wheel today... Sepp being a domestique for Roglic at the beginning of the climb since clearly they wanted to give him a stage win but why Landa ended up fulfilling Jonas' role today is beyond me
Yeah, Jonas is an absolute snake. He could have easily let Roglic get 10-15 seconds and rode Kuss home. But he wants to win it "accidentally" so badly.
Why didn't Primoz just slow the pace after dropping Landa? Don't blame a double-reigning TDF champ for keeping up with his teammate's wheel at Angliru.
Would be interesting knowing the dynamics in the team bus, whether this was agreed upon beforehand. On the one hand Kuss deserves recognition for his domestique work. On the other hand the two leaders are grand tour winners and are hungry for success ie "best cyclist wins".
Chances are Kuss is being a team man and feels its his responsibility to sacrifice for the team. That's what I get from his interviews and its frankly just an part of American sports culture that doesn't seem to translate as directly to Europeans. For as individualistic American society is, American sports culture is very hostile to what is perceived as selfishness on a team.
Just read in the Dutch media that the team agreed on monday to let everybody go for the win. Appears as though Kuss does not want a "gifted" win. If that is the case though I do not see Kuss winning the Vuelta though
@@renze7133 That's nonsensical logic. Without Kuss riding domestique Rog does not win Giro. Without Kuss pacing the mountains Jonas does not beat Pog in TdF. There are no individual superstars in professional cycling. Its a myth. Having the guy blow himself in every grand tour stage this year for other riders, and then expecting him to somehow ride stronger than the 2 he spent all fucking season sheltering, is fucking moronic. Maybe Europeans aren't as intelligent as you all like to brag you are...
@@cjohnson3836 I don't think its a culture thing, as European Football is a great example of team work > individuals (mostly, football is more than Messi and Ronaldo level players) - I think Kuss just has the domestique mentality still that he's not there to be gifted a win by the two leaders coming into the race. That being said, I hope he keeps it, as it would be lifechanging for a guy like him.
Excluding this Vuelta, Kuss has ridden 11 Grand Tours as a jumbo domestic, contributing to 6 victorys plus 2 second places at the TDF. A couple of those wins probably wouldn't have happened without him (roglic giro and his weaker vuelta wins). So the Jumbo tactics here are nothing but despicable. yes I know I put the same thing under the podcast too but I didn't want to waste the 3min of pcs research lol
On the one hand, they should have waited for Kuss since he's worked tirelessly for them and since there was no tactical reason to drop him. On the other hand... wait, what the hell, why did they do that?!?!?!
On the other hand they are the reason Kuss is on the strongest team in the world. The reason he gets payed well and the reason he gets to be a domestique at all. Because they can win it. They owe him nothing. Domestiques have a clear job description. It’s not free helpers. To become a captain you gotta beat the captain, not ask him to wait for you. Roglic and Vingegaard both started as domestiques. They didn’t get their role gifted. Let’s go Kuss, do it with your own legs and fuck these weak mentality fans.
On the other hand, Kuss told them over the radio "Go boys" when he couldn't follow anymore. Doing a little bit of research isn't that hard, though complaining is alot easier.
Dudes saying that roglic and jonas shouldnt wait because "the strongest win". remember that this is 5h GT in a row for Kuss. In 4 of them being the best domestique in the peleton. He could be potentially much much stronger at this moment if he could prepare for vuelta like roglic. Saying that the strongest wins is just so stupid at this particular moment
If Kuss does win it will be without support from his teammates. If the other two have a bad day Kuss would be there to offer a wheel. Kuss, so far, is being left to fend for himself with no ‘Kuss’ figure to support him. There is no gift at this stage. He has held his own with the current Giro and Tour winners attacking him.
These are my sentiments exactly. Who is the rider watching after the red jersey leader for TJV on climbs? No one... The team rides great until the climb, then they hit the climb and it's just Sepp fending for himself.
Kuss hasn’t had to pull since he’s been in red. He’s received the same cover as Primoz and Jonas. I love Kuss and hope he wins…but he’s in red bc Jonas was sick the first week. I blame the sports director for having a philosophy that encourages the leaders to go against each other. Primoz and Jonas don’t do anything without an ok from the team car.
Good thing Landa was there to do the job Sepp’s teammates wouldn’t. As Dan Lloyd said, “a PR own goal for TJV”. I have felt mostly positively about this team until today. Let’s see what tomorrow brings.
jumbo visma has basically secured all the podium positions at this point, i hope tjv sees that and stops roglic and vingegaard from attacking kuss from this point onwards
Why?! The current "deal" on Jumbo's team is, that all three (Jonas, Kuss, Promoz)can make a go for it as long as they don't take any of their rivals with them! And I think that it is as fair as it could be! This is not a “Me Too” where we all sit and hold hands and sing “We Are The World” kind of sport for god sakes! Let them all ride for it and let the best man win! And evertybody can see that Jonas is level above and basically held back today!
Are you suggesting that if Kuss is having another bad day and other riders attack Roglic and especially Vingegaard should just hold back because Kuss has to win? I can’t agree with this view that so many people seem to have about Kuss deserving to win for some reason. The best rider deserves it. If its just gifted to someone it isn’t even a real win.
@@Maussiegamer Are you suggesting that if Kuss is having another bad day and other riders attack Roglic and especially Vingegaard should just hold back because Kuss has to win? I understand the viewpoint because Kuss has helped Vinegaard so much but i can’t agree with it. So many people seem to have that view that Kuss deserves to win. The best rider deserves it. If its just gifted to someone it isn’t even a real win.
@@hektor7798 But see that's the thing, Kuss didn't really have a bad day the last two days. The only one putting him under pressure is his own teammates deciding to up the pace on their own volition. If those two don't attack, you wouldn't even know that he didn't have the legs to put out that kind of wattage.
Jonas had no business following Roglic's wheel when he already took time from them yesterday. Roglic kept his pace because he wants the stage win. He's more than 1 minute behind Kuss in GC so he isn't threatening the red jersey. Jonas could have slowed down and stayed with Kuss, if he really wants Kuss to stay in red. His actions say otherwise. 🤷♀️
On steep climbs like that there is no help from teammates - it is every man for him self. So if Jonas had stayed it would not have changed a thing. Hollow win for Sepp if he cannot even beat his own teammates. There is a reason he is a domestic and not a captain - he is not strong enough. You know nothing about cycling thats clear..
Totally agree. Interesting that the Jumbo DS didn't ask Jonas to stay with Sepp. So even team mgt aren't supporting their race leader. Primoz and Jonas demonstrated today that Sepp is dispensable and they're after the race win. This dynamic could alter the future make up of this team. Sepp was abandoned on his birthday, Jonas could have been selfless today, but chose not to be 🤔
For all the Jonas and Primoz haters, I hereby quote them: Jonas: “The stage win was our main goal today. The goal was of course to remain in the first three spots of GC. Everything went according to the plan. To be honest, I’m happy that Sepp is riding in the jersey. I hope he holds on to it. I would find it amazing if Sepp wins the Vuelta. Primoz: “It’s my own responsibility to do my upmost. Eventually we’ll see who is the strongest. The one with the best legs will win the Vuelta.” Sepp: “On monday we decided to let the strongest one win. Winning the Vuelta won’t be easy. I know this is my only chance to win a Grand Tour. I never expected to be in this position. I went in without expectations and wanted to help the others. Now I have this beautiful jersey. Backstage, we work together very well. Of course I want to go for my own chances, but I don’t mind riding for the others.” And lastly Grischa, team leader: “It’s incredible. We’re looking good, but er have a few tough stages still to go. I think that everyone likes to see Sepp in the lead. But we decided that everyone could ride for their own chances.” Hope this somewhat makes the situation in the team clear
You must be kidding, right? No one is that naive. Roglic and Vingegaard are fighting for the GC win, shamelessly. And Jumbo Visma is an absolute disgrace. If Kuss stays in this team in 2024 he deserves the humiliation. I've been watching grand tour cycling for thirty years now and never have I seen such a shit show of raw ambition and disrespect for a team mate.
@@contracultura4111 Kuss is still in the lead tho, and he said himself in an earlier interview that he didn’t want it to be gifted, which is reasonable. Also… I didn’t say this mate, that was them
@@paulevans6403 Roglic isn’t winning this Vuelta anymore, not with Vingegaard also there. And I don’t see what he did wrong, as orders for this have been given by not only the team but literally also Kuss. I hereby quote Sepp once more, what he allegedly said when he got dropped by Jonas and Primoz through his radio: “Go guys!”
Great video LR! I still believe in Jumbo letting GC KUSS win the overall, but at this point I don't even know what they're planning anymore. Also what really got me in stitches was the "and they keep going" at 2:32, timed so perfectly that you see the roadside sponsor ad that says "KEEP GOING" 😂
I've always had this question and can't hold it anymore. When Landa "saves" Kuss, why is it so? Isn't the drafting advantage almost none when going uphill? Why is it still so helpful? Genuinely curious.
I think part of it is psychological as well - having someone to follow at whatever level of cycling on whatever gradient always feels easier. The reverse when you can't quite hang on is equally true
It's the mental aspect of having a wheel to hang on to, it's an obviuous task to "hold on" and you can dig deeper without starting to thinking about your situation. There is almost 0 draft. But the Mental aspect in pro sports accounts imho at least for 50% of the effort. Hope this helps.
Just having someone to set a pace for you is helpful. So long as they don't push you over your limit... I imagine it's mostly just psychologically helpful. It always seems easier to give more when cycling with other people. But being experienced pros, you'd imagine they'd know where and how to always push to their absolute limit, but I guess human nature affects us all!
To those who think Kuss shouldn't be "gifted a win": what is the difference between Kuss pacing for another rider to help them win a grand tour vs. other riders pacing for Kuss in this Vuelta? Does it mean Kuss has "gifted" his captains the Tour and Giro this year? I'm honestly trying to understand your viewpoint.
Kuss won the stage and got to the current position he deserves. As simple as this. They did not gift him the stage. They simply was not as good in the previous stages.
@@markus539 The difference is, Vingegaard and Roglic are the types to never allow Kuss in a breakaway again after this. Whereas people like Froome got behind Geraint Thomas when he was leading the Tour de France, rather than sulking about coming in team leader.
Kuss might need to find a new team after this. Seems very little mutual respect here... He rides selflessly for Roglic and Vingegaard when they are in the lead, but they drop him without concern when he's in the lead.
JV and PR are captains, Kuss is a domestique. It's his job to work for them, that's what he's paid for. If he'd drop them in a race, without consent, he'd be out of a job.
@@darkiee69but it’s about making friends in a peloton. Those two won’t be so happy when kuss switches teams. Look even other people like landa helping him out because he has more friends. Not to mention it’s common race etiquette to not attack your teammate in red this far in when there’s absolutely zero threat to losing the jersey to a rival team
I guess people forget that the captain of a team is whoever is best on GC and is not threatened by the competition. Every teammate should protect his position, regardless of the fact that this person may not have come to the race with any ambition and regardless of any other potential personal need of his teammates. When Kuss, Vingegaard and Roglic were alone at 2km to the finish line there was no need to drop him, especially for Vingegaard. Stop saying "the best rider should win the race", as if every grand tour winner isn't used to take advantage of his teammate at every possible chance. It doesn't matter that Vingegaard won the Tour and Roglic the Giro: if Kuss is in red, they are all alone with him in the front, you don't attack him: someone (Vingegaard) should have played the role of his domestique
Its the beat team in the world. Kuss telling Primoz and Jonas to go when he felt hos legs was not the best. Primoz g’ets the win. Jumbo visma is on the podium with 3 riders and 3 minutes Down to 4th. I would Call that a pretty well functional team bro
yeaah I feel the same!! I get that a GC victory is a huge accomplishment already, but as a competitor, I wonder how you feel if you know you kind of been "gifted" the victory...
its always a team winning, none of the 3 TJV-Captains could win without Dylan van Barle pacing all day for example, and roglic wouldn`t win this years giro without kuss - so that argument just goes so far....
Same. It's not even that they don't want Sepp to win. It's that they can still lose, Roglic losing to Pogacar is still fresh in memory. They can't be complacent with 4 minutes when there is still a few stages, 1 mountain.
After rooting for Vingegaard at the last two TdF, the symphathy scores, I had for him, have imploded today. That means, that I hope that Remco will beat him at next year's TdF, although I used to be rather suspicious about his performances. And if not Remco, then Tadej, to whom I also used to be rather suspicious, or anyone else, but Jonas. It may not be logical, but that's how I FEEL after this stage. Don't even feel sorry for leaving Jonas followers. Greetings from Germany.
looked very weired today, but buttom line Vingegaard could have taken the red jersey easily today by working together with Roglic but decieded not to do so.
You're probably right. But usually I don't put whole teams under investigation, but individual riders. The next doping campaign will be a genetic one, Lance Armstrong speculated a decade ago. Are there already mRNA shots to improve things endurance, recovery, metabolization rates, etc.? Several years ago I read reports about teenage Belgian cyclists who died suddenly and unexpected, as it was reported for some batches of covid vaccines. Yesterday Nathan van Hooydonck (JBV) collapsed unexpected behind the wheel of his car and caused an accident. His conditions were said to be life-theatening, yet they couldn't find anything the day after...
@@bjornuhrig9960Yeah, sports is like this, yet his first Vuelta victory surely would be a Pyrrhus victory, as he will loose all the credits from non-Danish followers, he gained by his last TdF wins. Sympathy is not a matter of ambition or success, but similar to love, a matter of caring or granting others, etc. Imagine how different he would be perceived, if he would have dragged Sepp up towards the finish line instead of following Primoz ? So Landa did the job which would have made all the hearts flutter for Jonas.
The positive press giving a domestique a win in a grand tour would instantly make Roglic and Vingegaard legendary. One grands tour more or less for them two doesn't really change their post career image, I think.
Can someone explain to me why Roglic and Vingegaard didnt carry kuss to the finish line? Why didnt the team say to roglic and vingegaard "Hey Guys, wait for sepp!"? What exactly is the tactic?
Kuss: Vingegaard told me on the climb that I would win the Vuelta, but I was skeptical. I told them to go on when I couldn't follow anymore. The strongest must win. No crying from Kuss. Vingegaard wants Kuss to win, but if he ain't fast enough, Vingegaard will take it. That's top sport, deal with it and stop crying, folks!
It’s one thing for Roglic to shore up the third place as Vingegaard did in previous 1-2-3 but had no reason to kick Kuss in the nuts and take him out of red. Jonas could have supported Sepp and helped him to the line but did not. Disappointing from Roglic and Jonas.
On steep climbs like that there is no help from teammates - it is every man for him self. So if Jonas had stayed it would not have changed a thing. Hollow win for Sepp if he cannot even beat his own teammates. There is a reason he is a domestic and not a captain - he is not strong enough.
Roglic is a creep, but Jonas was despicable today. There's just not a single likeable thing about Vingegaard. Like OK, we get it, you have freakish lungs compared to anyone else on earth, could you perhaps find a barely decent personality to go with it.
@@Bulldog2833 It would have helped as he was losing time until he got help from another team. He was like 30 seconds down and dropping. He ending up only 19 seconds down thanks to his competitor.
At least in the Danish interview after the stage, Jonas seemed to support that Kuss should win the Vuelta. I dont think Jonas/Primoz will attack Kuss tomorrow. So if Kuss can keep up with the other strong opponents, I think Kuss will win the Vuelta.
8 seconds … small enough for Jonas to accidentally win … Roglic will sulk and attack for second … Kuss may even end up mentally crushed by the on the team coach politics and end up with nothing … in the future Jonas will have fewer haters as a result, Roglic will not care and Kuss will still be a nice guy cherished by those who value selflessness and loyal …. Just supposin’
@@mjtpli Exactly. There's the captain, and everyone else. The team is there for the captain, that's it, that's what they're paid for. Did it take you 'til now to figure that out?
It seemed to me that even Sepp was riding for Primoz to get the stage today. But why did Jonas drop him? I hope there is a reason, because I honestly admire all three of these riders. Go Sepp! He's earned this grand tour win!
There was definitely no need for Jonas to follow Primoz other than ego. It makes sense for Primoz to go up the road to drop Landa and take the stage win, especially considering he's more than a minute behind. Jonas should have paced Sepp the rest of the way.
I don't admire Vingegaard or Roglic one bit. Did you see Roglic's interview on Eurosport; he doesn't want the stage (he barely looked interested in it), he wants the red jersey. While Vingegaard had zero fear of Roglic gaining more than 15 seconds on him if he'd just rode Kuss in, but wants red himself.
@@luckyspursoh no he really wanted that stage, like every climber in the world wants to conquer Angliru… anyone who is not completely deranged or a psycho, like Vinge perhaps…
I don't think this whole debate should be about which one of the 3 deserves it most. I just feel like it's strange to attack/drop your teammate IN THE LEADER'S JERSEY this late into the race. No matter which teammate it is. Hell, if it was Kaden Groves in red, you better believe his team would do everything in their might to somehow get him over these last few mountains. But I guess going into the race with 2 leaders (and now 3) was doomed from the beginning for TJV. No result other than Kuss holding his own tomorrow and holding on to the jersey by his own merit can be truly satisfactory for this Vuelta.
There's a big difference between gifting and giving support to a deserving red jersey who has gifted you his support time and time again. The frantic pace and attack from Primoz when the team has 1-3 locked up is absolutely unecessary.
Of course! Djokovic should also gift away the next Grand Slam and Verstappen should lose the championship on purpose! Or wait - is it only cycling who have such an immature and dumb fan base?
@@marccruz4055 Since when do riders two and a half weeks into a Grand Tour have to worry about their own teammates when they're wearing the leaders jersey? He's not being distanced by anyone else.
@@ofouadjsqbdhbfhsXC I don't think you understand cycling as a race and how audience interest works and how individual ability should matter till the end. You are talking about synchronized diving or field hockey. Or two football teams shoving the ball around for 30 minutes because they both need a draw.
Great stage and big ups to Soler and Bahrain Victorious for making it fun to watch! I'd be surprised if Jonas takes red in the next two days as he could've taken it today but chose not to contest for the stage. As for the dilemma of the red jersey wearer though, imo Sepp is ultimately not the strongest rider in his team and gained all his time from a break early on in the race, so letting Roglic and Vingegaard race the full three weeks for GC makes sense for TJV and it maintains credibility to the Vuelta as a race to be contested. I'd love it for Kuss to win this GT, but if i were him I'd want to win it on merit racing the way that TJV have raced so far rather than have my clearly fresher legged teammates rolling over and gifting it away. It's a Grand Tour, not a Birthday present, and if Kuss wins now it's because along with being the best of a breakaway group in stage 6, he set a decent TT, made it up the Tourmalet, survived the L'Angliru etc, it's not just because Vingegaard and Roglic stopped pedalling by stage 7.
I'm so glad that Roglic and Vingegaard attack, otherwise the Vuelta would be pretty boring. The otherteams are 3-4 steps below TJV. Kuss is sympathetic guy and he does deserve to try and win. But this is racing, they make it interesting. And Roglic said it well today: "The strongest should win, as long as we get position 1, 2 and 3." Well said.
so Roglic in his post-race interview basically saying he went pretty much full gas and that Kuss should just fight for it and he’ll win. I mean… cool that he believes in him. But perhaps he shouldn’t forget that if it wasn’t for Kuss he maybe wouldn’t have won all the races he has. Cycling as a team sport has strange dynamics and today it worked out perfectly for the team, but still it’s a bit weird how not Jonas nor Primoz can adapt to being a domestique, especially to Kuss, who is well ready to take the win. Saying as a Slovene and Roglic fan. Sorry he can’t win it but the beauty of cycling still is that it is inherently a team sport
"..But perhaps he shouldn’t forget that if it wasn’t for Kuss he maybe wouldn’t.." Kuss is literally a helper/servant in the race for Roglic and Vingegaard. So your statement is literally moronic.
Was it three years ago when we first noticed Jonas as a sacrificial, though notable domestique, on the Angliru...? Yeah, I remember Sepp repeatedly looking back and waiting for Roglic, who could not hold his wheel, but that stage ultimately went to Hugh Carthy though Roglic retained GC lead, and went on to win that Vuelta.
Sepp kuss fucking told Them to go. He had even Said that after. They didnt just attack him. The plan was surely that he would go with Them. But i didnt hav the legs and told Them to go. The radio Said: “GO GUYS”
@@nt78stonewobble Only Landa was left with them and he is not a GC threat. They already put time on the others. Why not ride a tempo and sprint to the finish?
This is a team sport they should protect their leader. It’s one thing if Sepp cracks and has a bad day, it’s another when you attack your leader 3km from the end of the stage when nobody from another team is nearby or even close on GC. Jumbo is taking an amazing PR story and turning it into a PR disaster.
The sports director Was able to call Sepp kuss back before He went into Red Jersey! And Attacke your Team mate in a Team Event not only once, but 2 days in a row!
Sepp kuss fucking told Them to go. He had even Said that after. They didnt just attack him. The plan was surely that he would go with Them. But i didnt hav the legs and told Them to go. The radio Said: “GO GUYS”
Sepp is having a superb race, but he hasn't got the same legs on these savage climbs. We can't expect a tow from the other leaders. It's Sepp's job to stick to the wheel of Jonas when he goes, but he couldn't do it. Roglìc has to attack, because Bahrain's crazy pace was hitting the buffers already, so they didn't want to get caught by those riding on the back of the Bahrain train. It was the moment to go for the stage win. Ideally, the three of them would have gone together. It wasn't as if Roglic lit up the afterburners, he just rocked his own pace for that type of brutal incline to ensure a win for the team and obviously for himself if possible, which he did.
Last year Sepp had to pace Rog up these same "savage climbs". The dude has raced every GT stage this year. And he's held the red jersey here with 2 fewer domestiques than any other non-TJV rival. Your argument doesn't hold water.
@@cjohnson3836 It's not an argument, it's only my opinion. Anyway, what you have said was last year. I wouldn't have thought anyone owes him anything from last year. That's the job of a domestique in a team anyway. As far as I can tell, Team Jumbo-Visma has 3 potential winners, neither of them are working as domestiques, they are trying to secure a 1-2-3 whatever way they can. Where was the domestique back up? He'd already blown up, so they had to do it this way. Going up at a slower pace to tow Sepp could have left them open to losing the stage, and possibly losing more time against potential podium rivals.
@@markdonovan1540 Omg you're daft. Its not about who is owed, knob. Its about the physical reality that Rog needed Kuss to pace him up the climb for him to win. Its about the fact that Jonas needed Kuss to blow the selection up for him to win. Its the simple fucking fact that no GT winner wins by themselves. [Where was the domestique back up?] THEY are the domestique back up! That's how a cycling team works. Why are you expecting Kuss to do something that neither of the other two were successful at?
@@emperored7771 Please can you share with us the unwritten rule, so we can read it. Oops, you'll have to write it then. OK, forget it. We'll just keep on enjoying the RACING and see how it pans out.
Very logical: 1) TJV wants to ensure that should something bad happens to Kuss, Roglič and Vingegaard will still retain their comfortable margin to other teams, so that their GC lead is absolutely secure. (Remember, it only takes a single crash and everything changes!) 2) Primož wanted to win the stage and try to close the gap to Jonas, if possible. He knew that he's likely too far behind Sepp to threathen him anyway. 2) Jonas would like to see Sepp to win the GC, but also wants to maintain his own gap to Primož, just in case. Thus, Primož attacked to win the stage and Jonas had to follow to prevent him from closing the gap between them. Closing the gap to Sepp was a mere byproduct. Jonas would rather have liked Sepp to be able to hold his wheel, but he couldn't.
There was literally no reason for anyone in Jumbo to attack when they did. The three of them could have ridden across the finish line together and never been at risk of losing any podium position. The attacks against their own teammate are utter rubbish.
I completely agree! Sadly Kuss looks like the victim of a battle between Jonas and Roglic. Roglic and Jonas probably have the same mindset: First priority is that the team should win, but I want to be the one to do it. Maybe it's a mentality you need to be a GC rider. It does look like both are willing to help Sepp win the race, but not each other. As you said a crash can change it all, so they both want to make sure if that happens they are the ones to claim it.
To me it’s clear from both the stage and the interviews after.. Roglic wants Roglic to win it. No surprise we know he’s an assassin. Kuss feels he’s earned it. But he’d rather not be gifted it. And Jonas wants Kuss to win and if he can he will help that cause tomorrow. Earned a few fans today I thought did Jonas.. Jumbo have it all sewn up, they are already celebrating…. Big day for the American coming up!
@@felixerler388 Jonas doesn't want to lose his 2nd place to Primoz nor does he want to give the Vuelta win to Primoz. If Primoz is going for it and it looks like Sepp cannot defend then Jonas will ride for his own chance. Jonas went for the stage win yesterday, he didn't know that they would finish so far behind him. Everyone has said that it's super unusual for the other GC riders not to chase.
Basically Vingegaard can decide if he or Kuss wins the Vuelta. This decision might give or cost him a huge amount of sympathy from the fans. I‘m not sure abour Roglic. Maybe he only went for the stages and will not catch Kuss anyways, because he has over one minute to gap.
Bro they better ride for Kuss tomorrow. But i get it, pro sport has no gifts. And none of them might be in this position ever again. When you have La Vuelta win on the line you will fight for it. Goes for all 3 of them. But Kuss would be a nice champion :) Go Kuss!
this vuelta reminds me a lot of the 2012 tour... you had a defending champ with a relatively weaker team (cadel evans in 2012 and remco in this years vuelta) who cracked really badly one day and then an absolutely stacked team with drama between who should be the real leader (sky with froome and wiggins in 2012, jumbo with sepp, jonas, and roglic now). the main difference being, that sepp is in the leaders jersey rather than froome and wiggins hadn't won a grand tour at the time. i think what makes this vuelta so much more interesting is that sepp clearly is not as strong as jonas or even primoz. i think we would all love to see sepp win the vuelta, and i believe if he gets through tomorrow he will. also, i do think jonas seems more genuine when he says he wants to see sepp win the vuelta. he certainly could have taken the red jersey today if he wanted to, but he just sat in primoz's wheel. primoz on the other hand, seems to know that his time is coming to an end and that this could be one of his last chances to win a grand tour. as much as he wants sepp to win, he also wants to win for himself. tomorrow (stage 18) will be really interesting for sure
People are commenting without knowing the details behind the scenes. Does somebody know what was the agreement inside the team ? From my point of view it was be "Everyone for himself BUT do not jeopardies " the 1-2-3. You can give a stage win to somebody or even give him the leaders jersey for a few days, but we are talking about a grand tour. We are talking about history, fame and lots of money. For Jumbo and for the riders also. Personally i was sure that Kuss will not win it. It would be nice to see a man like Kuss win the Vuelta, but in the same time i would know that he was gifted the win and did not deserve it. Jonas and Roglic are one class better then Kuss. Jonas might win it because Roglic was more like a gentleman the Jonas, he attacked Kuss less the Jonas, but Jonas was more aware or attacks and followed more attacks, thus he gained time. I am sure that Roglic would give the win to Kuss, he is more mature but Jonas is like a shark , he wants blood , he is young and want more titles.
Jonas is a smart rider. He's a borderline unreadable, both by stage and by tour. Played domestique early in the Vuelta and didn't look like much of a GC candidate, but then did what he did in Le Tour and wound it up gradually. Keeps his powder dry, loses a few seconds here and there without freaking out over big attacks, and always sees the bigger picture - even if that means dropping his teammate. I think Roglic is his main rival, not Kuss. Jonas can win the Vuelta if he wants to, but maybe he lets Kuss stay in red and keeps him on side (in 2024+). I love all these guys - Pog, Rog, Kuss, Remco - but to me, Jonas is on another level right now. The GC battle is all TJV - of course they're going to fight it out for ultimate honours.
@@luckyspurs Ah yes, that's why he was in tears 300 m before finish line on stage 16 after learning that Nathan van Hooydonck barely survived his car accident. Such a selfish unemphatic person he is..
This must be one of the strangest grand tours ever. From day 1 to now.... just crazy.
It’s very surreal
The Vuelta tends to be wild, many crazy races over the years. Not always a good thing. Usually seems like they have five people running it with a $10k budget.
The 1987 Giro had something like this. I didn’t watch the race, but it sounds like it was wild.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1987_Giro_d%27Italia
@@SkarTisu sounds like the same exact thing actually except there are now three riders instead of two in that case. Guess we'll see what happens.
Sepp needs to transfer to a team that will support him and let him target races to win. He's wasting his talent helping a team that doesn't value him.
Landa rode well for Kuss, probably saved Kuss's red jersey, similar to the way Kuss saved the entire Giro for Roglic earlier this year. It is what it is.
Jonas saved Kuss jersey ... he could have easily taken it today.... but he obviously didnt even try..... he just went with roglic to show he is the strongest rider
@@lordad you're wrong - Jumbo has a clear tactics of the third guy in GC attacking the bunch (earlier Jonas, now Primoz), because the 3rd guy is not a direct threat to Sepp. Jonas shouldn't follow Primoz when he attacked Landa, but rather stay with Sepp.
@@morvudd1165 it was not what Roglic said. In Roglic words, he would have attacked even if he was second, and to be fair he let it open to attack again tomorrow. An absolute disgrace.
Perhaps Landa is telling Kuss that his services would be very much appreciated on another team!
@@morvudd1165 But Jonas did not follow roglic when he attacked. Sepp joined roglic later and then jonas.
The best quote of all time : " There is no Sep Kuss for Sep Kuss on Angliru"
Mikel Landa was Kuss' Kuss today.
Did a damn good job of it too.
Dude, you are KILLING it with the commentary. In other words, really good job, seriously.
Being 4 minutes ahead of everyone else, I think it would be ridiculous if Jumbo don't try to give Kuss the Overall Win. He has done so much for them and has put all his personal ambitions aside, despite being capable of leading a team and being a Top 10 Grand Tour finisher in his own right.
I don't agree, I think the best should win. If Roglic and Vinegeard would have to hold back to give Kuss the win, what kind of victory is that? It's nothing. I think Kuss even said that he didn't want to win like that.
Tomorrow can be interesting
@@snorlax4021 "the best should win" is such a stupid statement in a team sport, egoism never wins in the long term.
Who would want to "win" a sports event solely because their friends handed them the victory? If you're someone with a genuine sports mindset, you'd prefer finishing last on your own merits than winning an event out of pity from your friends.
In the very same team, Laporte was gifted a race this season. And Jonas has "let" Rog win when he had been stronger before
Kuss should give Landa a hug for being such loyal domestic.
Kuss did a good job minimizing the damage today. If he has a good day tomorrow it could be enough. He has to mark his teammates very carefully. Every man for himself at this point
This is the dumbest comment. Cycling is and ALWAYS has been a TEAM sport. When an American is in the lead it’s suddenly every man for himself. Convenient hahaha. Poor sport euros once again.
These guys have more respect for GC rivals than their own loyal teamates.
Nobody has respect for Jonas Vingegaard and Primoz Roglic now.
Thankfully people like Wout Poels exist or it really would put you off cycling.
As far as I heard, Sepp wanted to fight for the GC and not have it gifted to him (the DS said something along these lines). I guess a GC win feels much better, if you actually have some competition :D
@@luckyspurs I respect them very much! and in my country Jonas is loved and respected by all. So please talk for yourself, when your feelings are hurt, just because they want to win :)
I think Sep want the fight for it, not to be given a victory. And remember how Jonas respectfully waited for his competitor Pogacar last year in the TDF, when Pogacar fell on a descent. Definitely, there is something else going on, that what you line up
With friends like these, who needs enemies?
Sepp is such a great team player and so optimistic. He has to be the best politician. Sepp has been the primary climbing domestic for both of them for five grand tours in a row. Not to mention all the other stage races he has helped win. It’s a pity that these teammates don’t understand that they didn’t do it by themselves. It’s even worse that management is blowing apart the team they fought so hard to build. Maybe because Jumbo Visma is not sponsoring in the future, the team won’t be able to pay Sepp, Jonas and Primos, so they are willing to burn a promising American, to keep one star.
The worst part was, yesterday was Sepp’s birthday!
Happy Birthday Sepp Kuss!
Jonas behaviour today was a disgrace. No loyalty whatsoever. Jumbo management needs to get a grip as the way Kuss is being treated is not playing well with most cyclists especially in America! If Kuss does not win the team will explode. Reminds me of Movistar with their three leaders.
@@parishoffice6769 what exactly did Jonas do today ?? Kuss was the one saying in the radio that they should go for it roglic was the one pulling had Jonas won the stage he would have probably been in red now but did he ?? no .. he literally didn't do anything other then just follow roglic and was even the one staying with kuss and tried to bring him with them the expert commentators even saw that lol so why do you keep the hate on jonas when he literally is a teamplayer, why are you all such bitches lol its a bike race were the strongest rider wins its not a kindergadern for please can i win today. Kuss are allowed to drive his chance that is his role but the other 2 are also allowed so stop bitching like little school girls just because Kuss can't follow the two strongest that happends to be his teamates true but this isn't football its an individual team sport. name any other team that would not allow their 3 strongest rider to ride for the win?? ineos is looking for a GT rider who do you think they would pick of thouse 3 Kuss, Roglic or Vingegaard ?? I agree that Kuss is a strong rider and is a big help bit even he doesn't want to win knowing he didn't win it by being the strongest. Who ever wants to win like that. If he wins its all because roglic and vingegaard wants him to win but its their decition and no matter what they decide it will be fair. That Kuss was allowed to drive his chance is to be treat him well.
@@parishoffice6769get a grip.
maybe we'll be watching the Tdf next year with Kuss on UAE dishing sweet revenge to Jonas...wouldn't that be fun to watch.
You guys talk like Jonas took the lead. He didnt. He is just very close. Sounds safer for Jumbo as a team.
Was waiting for this video after seeing the end of the stage
When even Eurosport went in on trashing Vingegaard and Roglic for a full hour after the stage, you knew it was going to be fire.
@@luckyspurs the same thing happened with ESPN latam debate after the stage, I watched some of the coverage of Eurosport SPA and ENG as well, and everyone is mad on Sepps behalf. This quickly turned into a soap opera thanks to the media, honestly I'm rooting for Sepp but I understand if either Roglic or Vingegaard win, because in the end thats their job. Maybe bringing Vingegaard to La Vuelta was unnecessary and "undermined" Roglic chances even more so with the Kuss situation.
Sepp Kuss has been there for both of them-JV and PR-working and sacrificing for years during their tour wins. Yet, they attack him whenever the opportunity arises, instead of helping him to control things. And Jumbo’s boss is full of it when he said they weren’t attacking Sepp. I saw it with my own eyes, are you kidding me? I hope they come to their ethical senses and support Sepp for the win otherwise in my book, it’s total betrayal. Ironically, we can thank Landa, an adversary, for keeping Sepp in the red jersey-not his teammates.
On the other hand, they can't afford to ride at Kuss' flagging pace if they want the podium.
@asnark7115 Kuss finished ahead of every other rider.. they would still be up 3 minutes for the podium if they finished with him.
Yes. Jonas sucks and so does Rog. I'll never like that team, their managers, the sponsor or these two greedy jerks to attack Sepp.
I agree and disagree. You make good points. But remember the Jumbo Boss' responsibility is to the team. You need contingencies. Anything can happen until the final day.
But to show appreciation, realize that Roglic and Vingegaard didn't nuke it together, they just rode away. Enough to push gaps, yet also enough that if Kuss has the legs, he won't be out of GC. They can always try give it to him on the last day. There's 4 stages left...
@@asnark7115 Yeah, Roglic would have had no probem sprinting the last K to take the win. This is disgraceful beyond words. I's Sepp's third grand tour of the year and the first two he worked his ass off for Jonas and Primos so they could win and they can't turn a pedal for their most valuable teammate. Sad.
After all he's done for them, it's cruel to try and take it away from him on these final stages.
Lol definitely not cruel. If he cannot follow attack why he would deserve winning GC? Let the strongest guy win and leave morality aside. This is racing.
@@Karollenart They've all got egos, but some are more appreciative than others. It's a team sport, the dynamics within a team have always created "polemics" , as the euros would call it. Lots of ink will be spilled. It's not a simple point race full of independents, as you would naively have us believe. This is big time team sport with a long storied history.... some of the world's best athletes are writing this era's chapter in the iconic grand tours.
You would think that there would be some payback here.
@@Karollenart Do you think that in the past, Kuss had the opportunity to take a stage win away from one of his team leaders because he was having a better day, but didn't?
@@MikeK02048yeh but if ur going for gc and there’s someone better, there’s no way ur gonna sit there and say let them win
Wouldn’t it be nice for Kuss to win and TJV to have three different grand tour winners - that’s TEAM WORK!
Team work ? Did you look the stage ? No team work here. This was ugly from Roglic.
@@Difdauf Cry me a river.
Yes, obviously that would. But why shouldn't the three of them RACE for the win? Isn't that what competition is about?
Maybe, just maybe, if they have a clear 1-2-3 unassailable lead on the penultimate stage, then they can jig it however they like. That's up to them and their team directors, not us mappers posting comments here..
I buy it as long as it always is the strongest rider that wins a GT.
@@Difdauf Nope, it was the ultimate team play.
Former yellow jersey holder Rolf Sorensen: "They are bolting from Sepp because he let them - Sepp knows that if he forces JV/PR to stay with him and Sepp blows up, it could mean red jersey losses for all 3 of them. It is clear to me (to Rolf) that Sepp needed a breather but JV/PR had lots left in the tank and needed to make sure Jumbo had 2 if not 3 in the Top 3 still, with a buffer to go - This is the ultimate team play from Sepp and it paid off with Sepp getting a break and still getting back time before the line".
Honestly shocking to see. Even hours later, I'm still speechless. People who talk about 'no one deserves gifts' don't understand cycling it seems. Its about teamwork and you constantly gift each other help, lead-outs, pacing, protection from the wind, etc, etc. Kuss has done it for every grand tour they've won. Not only did they not return the favor, they attacked him outright. Shocking. One can only hope Kuss somehow holds on and wins, despite having no teammates, a field of riders still trying to get a win and his own teammates even fighting against him. If he pulls it off, at least there will be absolutely no talks of 'gifts' after this.
If they attack him again, it will destroy their reputations and the team. Maybe team management can step in. I doubt either agree to work with Sepp. However, I am hoping one does agree and supports Sepp when the other one attacks.
@@bg147 I dont think rog can win over 1 minute today.
If Jonas plays to support Sepp instead of attacking for no reason, it could end all good.
Otherwise, I hope both the "leaders" lose all the respect they have in peloton and community forever.
Which is not going to happen, unfortunatelly
Exactly. Jonas was kinda gifted a minute on Tuesday by capilalizing on the top positions of kuss and roglic. Roglic was the strongest from the first week and IIT. He could have fight for his position. But Jonas being lower in classification gets the green card to attack in the 3 leader strategy. By doing so he leapfrogs roglic without roglic fully contesting. And now he can even leapfrog kuss
Rog didn't have the legs to pull gaps like Jonas. PS, Kuss is getting co-leader treatment. The leaders aren't pulling for him, but everyone else is
Yeah, to the people who say "it's about being the strongest rider", why don't Roglic and Vingegaard pull on the flats rather than letting van Baarle carry them.
Because it's a team sport and Roglic and Vingegaard if they were in a 2 man team rather than an 8 man one would have half the stage wins.
The thing that rubs me wrong is that Kuss works for these two to win important stages of grand tours. Now he’s got the leader’s jersey and neither one will give him the courtesy of a pull. Imagine if Kuss had dropped either one to go grab a stage win the the Giro or the Tour.
He told Them to fo for it. He Said in an interview after. He dont want to be the Leader and the one to win. If he does it is bevises he asked for it. If he doesnt it is most likely because he dont ive much of a shit
You do realise that Kuss got dropped and it wasn't really an attack, right? They did give him a pull, it was too much of a pull.
@@B4SSERB4S if he didn't want to win he wouldn't have raced past Landa at the finish like that
Following the pace, he couldn't
He is too nice to do that. I hope Kuss would drop them in the future and say "I believe in them being able to win it and I support them (but I still drop them)". The post race interview are some of the most ridiculous and dramatic interviews.
Before this stage, the only potential threats left to Jumbo finishing 1, 2, 3 on GC were Ayuso and Mas. Both had fallen a long way behind by the time the three Jumbo riders were left as the leading group of three going up the last climb. There was no reason to ride away from Kuss other than the rivalry between Jonas and Primoz was too intense to obey team orders. Some people are questioning whether Kuss will go elsewhere because of this. I am wondering which of Jonas and Primoz will leave.
if I were to guess, it would be Primoz. I think there was talk that Trek really wanted to pick him up. And I agree that I think Jumbo would want Sepp to stay since he's such a powerhouse for their GC wins, they would probably pay a lot for him to stay
Let Kuss go. He can be replaced. The gc guys will be harder to replace.
@@arthurreyes2632Kuss can’t be replaced. Roglic is old and past his prime.
@@arthurreyes2632 lololololol. He’s the best climbing domestique in the world and he’s not yet 30.
@@arthurreyes2632Hard disagree. I'd go with letting Primoz go. He's highly capable of winning but so prone to crashing. At least with Jonas + a domestique like Sepp (who could potientially be a GC rider if he's protected/trained to be one), they could still take on mountains easily.
My biggest cheer of the race so far was seeing Kuss stick to Landa and pull back some seconds. Would be one of those iconic sporting moments if Kuss goes on and wins in Madrid, But I think the ego's of Roglic and Vingegaard will prevent it.
Vingegaard stated in an interview that he wanted to see Kuss win the Vuelta. I guess it all comes down to what TJV decides but I could see them ride it defensively to the end now that they all three have a pretty sizeable lead in the GC
The best rider should win it, it shouldn’t be a gift from jonas or Roglić. If Kuss is good enough he’ll win it
@@matthewwoolf6198 according to that argument, domestiques shouldn't exist. Would Roglic have won the Giro if Kuss wasn't there for him? Maybe, maybe not.
The way it's going Roglic and Vingegaard will attack Kuss on the final flat stage, just to break every cycling convention and decency they haven't already trashed all over.
@@Frostbiker Roglic has had more than one GC saved because a teammate saved his ass when he fades at the end of stage races. He would most definitely have lost at least one Giro and a Paris-Nice if it wasn't for a teammate.
I just want to point out a few things:
1) Jonas looked VERY comfortable in Roglic' wheel and I have little doubt that he could have dropped Roglic and taken the red jersey if he had wanted to. This tells me that he is infact not just "going for it".
2) It is one thing to gift stage wins to teammates as we've seen plenty of times in the past (including by Jonas and Primoz) and quite another for the strongest rider in the peloton to gift a grand tour to a teammate. After his sickness has evaporated, Jonas IS the strongest rider in the peloton, probably even by far. Him gifting the Vuelta to Sepp would probably be the biggest gift given to a teammate in cycling history.
3) Sepp has been the best super domestique in the world over the last few years, no doubt about that, but it is ridiculous to talk about how Sepp has sacrificed for Jonas and Primoz. To ride for them is literally his JOB and he gets paid handsomely for it and has become one of the most popular riders in the world because of it. Probably a better deal than being a tier 2 captain on a smaller team. Regardless, none of the "sacrifices" that Sepp has made even begins to compare to sacrificing a grand tour win. Jonas can complete a historic tour-vuelta double. Primoz can win a historic fourth Vuelta. You don't even get to that place unless you are single-mindedly competitive. It is not a small thing to ask these riders to give it up when it is within their grasp or in Jonas' case, 100% there for the taking if he wants it.
4) Everybody has said that there is an agreement on the team that if one of the three gets dropped, the other two doesn't wait around for them. Of course it can definitely be argued that the Angliru was different because they were just those three Jumbo riders ahead of everybody else, but still.
5) Yes, I also want Sepp to win and want the fairytale ending. I think a key reason why so much fuss is being out of this is exactly because everybody loves Sepp. But I must say I object to the villanization of Jonas and Primoz.
@TheRealBlueSwan
Yours is the best argument I’ve seen for NOT villain-izing Roglic and Vingegaard. Chapeau!
Best comment of this section
Finally someone with some commun sense on this comment section.
This is a well-reasoned set of points.
Thank god for this comment !
I can just feel the relationship on the Jumbo Visma team breaking apart. Sometimes the bigger goal of team cohesion is greater than the goal of wining a grand tour. It is ironic that while dominating this tour with 1, 2 and 3 on the GC they are looking like the team that is losing the most.
Unless Sepp wins, they are history.
You are wrong. It’s just the press fanning the flames
Hopefully Kuss and Roglic both refuse to help Vingegaard in the Tour de France.
Kuss by leaving, Roglic by attacking him every day (and I say that as someone who hates Roglic and Vingegaard now and knows that hurts Roglic as much as it will Vingegaard).
What if they agreed beforehand on jonas/roglic, but Kuss now deviates and wants more? Who is really causing the stirring here?
@@luckyspurs I'd love to see the rest of the team go to the director and say.... "We are riding for Sepp tomorrow, nobody else."
It's pretty simple. You don't ever attack a teammate in the leader's jersey.
Yes its simple, Kuss was clearly slower and got dropped. Yesterday too. What are you waiting for in team where are three gc😀
Never
Even Froome came back to Wiggins, he was just like 1% as famous as Bradley at the time and wanted people to know he could have won it and was a future GC man.
Even that was against what cycling is supposed to be, but this is 100 times worse.
@@ŠtefanKučera-o7d He's slower because Roglic increased the pace. Not every attack is getting out the saddle and sprinting up the road.
@@itspaddyd and what? Who will win vuelta ,have to ride with teammates in group too. He deserves not to win vuelta when he is slower then roglic or vinge. He couldnt hold the back wheel at the end of race..vinge easy..so roglic..logical then
Aside from anything else, funniest day of cycling in several years.
Best day of grand tour racing since Vuelta 2021 stage 20
Judas Vingegaard
@@zwiebelesser1467 wait who did he betray?
Roglig?
@@zwiebelesser1467 Is that you, Kussie..?
@@Pawsk it is meant as a joke…
I remember Laurent Jalabert in this very race, trying desperately to let a journeyman rider from another team win a stage as both knew that it would probably be the guy's only day in the sun. That was class as opposed to whatever this is.
Its a completely different scenario though. We are talking a GT. Jonas has done that and even given his stage win to teammembers. And it actually if you look seems like hes doing it again on a whole GT. He had the legs to take 1 minute on everyone if he tried on Angliru he looked completely calm and in no effort up that mountain.
Sat on the bus the other day, little kid was jealously staring 10 minutes straight on my LRCP cap 😂❤️
I was waiting for Horner to rock up on his rim brake Madone out of mountain mist and drag Sepp back up to the front.
His own team mates FULLY dogged him up the Angliru!
Poetic!
Landa MVP
JONAS AND VINGEGAARD>
Landa truly a man of honor
Actually, Landa was kind of pissed at Sepp, who had to explain and apologize after the stage.
Actually, Poels MVP
@@stevenmeyer9674 how come he was pissed at Kuss?
It makes no sense to go up the road further without Kuss. He has been there for both those riders when they have needed help winning. Not sure the tactic to push him off the win. No teammate should be battling to stay in the race lead vs. his own teammates who they have helped win major races. This is his 3rd grand tour this year and Primoz has fresher legs - he should of backed off and all crossed the line together showing support for Kuss. Just really makes me made to see how he was treated on his birthday for crying out loud!
On steep climbs like that there is no help from teammates - it is every man for him self. So if Jonas had stayed it would not have changed a thing. Hollow win for Sepp if he cannot even beat his own teammates. There is a reason he is a domestic and not a captain - he is not strong enough. You know nothing about professional cycling thats clear.
kuss is simply not good enough. you and others will have to accept this, as he himself has done.
@@Bulldog2833the end of angliru is shallow climb and a descent of course it helps to have someone
@@Martin-ls9bz He had Landa so someone was there.. Face it he is not strong enough to be a captain. Hollow win if Sepp cannot even beat his teammates. Would look stupid if Jonas and Primus stayed behind and then Sepp goes down the day after and they loose the Vuelta due to holding back better riders. Respect to the 3 guys for letting the best man Win. Fouls saying different knows nothing about professional Cycling.
@Bulldog2883 after landa caught him they started pulling the time back. It already disproves your theory that following a wheel doesnt help.
Jumbo Visma communication in times of a shitstorm because of their tactics is like:
SEPP🙂: thinks the "desires and whishes in the race are by now all satisfied" in his opinion he wants to go "to the next stages in a more defensive way"
JONAS🌚: hopes "Sepp wins the GC" (but attacks with Roglic anyways and almost takes GC)
ROGLIC😐: "is here to race" (wich means he wants to attack an see who's best) but at the same time "is the first who wants Sepp to win GC"
I think there will be some tense Team Meetings to come. Hopefully Sepp can prevail in them.
In my opinion the director would be wise to start giving clear instructions to avoid further tensions in the team.
(The quotes all come from interviews after today's stage)
uhm no? they clearly have great communication. They probably just said "the best man wins the gc" but in a more calm version, where they don't attack eachother non stop. JV, Sepp and Roglic all look happy so why make drama out of it?
Vingegaard simply followed Roglic (which he had to), it was Roglic that attacked.
El que lo gane que sea compitiendo no por regalo
Sepp can not loose more time, but by god if Vingegaard goes past him without another rider of another team also threatening Kuss's position I will severely dislike him.
Jonas has won, and will win, enough. This one, if he can manage, should be for Kuss who always rode in service off others.
@@waxyy2947 if they really said that THAT would be the epitomy of bad communication/PR, stealing the teams most loyal helpers victory without any reason
"He shot a cat, anyway"
Perhaps the funniest thing is that Jumbo's socials are trying to highlight their 'teamwork' today. Bunch of clowns.
Helping team members win happens, especially from leaders that appreciate/ want continued support from their team riders who sacrifice their own glory. Wout for LaPorte at this years Gent Wevelgem.. maybe Wout needs to make a few calls 😊
I mean look at Froome when Thomas won the Tour de France.
Jonas' attack yesterday made more sense than him sticking to Primoz' wheel today... Sepp being a domestique for Roglic at the beginning of the climb since clearly they wanted to give him a stage win but why Landa ended up fulfilling Jonas' role today is beyond me
Yeah, Jonas is an absolute snake.
He could have easily let Roglic get 10-15 seconds and rode Kuss home. But he wants to win it "accidentally" so badly.
Jonas couldn't really wait for Kuss, because it could have ended up just giving Primos the overall.
Why didn't Primoz just slow the pace after dropping Landa? Don't blame a double-reigning TDF champ for keeping up with his teammate's wheel at Angliru.
Only Primoz is to blame here. Why did he leave Kuss and Jonas? What a disgrace
Would be interesting knowing the dynamics in the team bus, whether this was agreed upon beforehand. On the one hand Kuss deserves recognition for his domestique work. On the other hand the two leaders are grand tour winners and are hungry for success ie "best cyclist wins".
Chances are Kuss is being a team man and feels its his responsibility to sacrifice for the team. That's what I get from his interviews and its frankly just an part of American sports culture that doesn't seem to translate as directly to Europeans. For as individualistic American society is, American sports culture is very hostile to what is perceived as selfishness on a team.
Just read in the Dutch media that the team agreed on monday to let everybody go for the win. Appears as though Kuss does not want a "gifted" win. If that is the case though I do not see Kuss winning the Vuelta though
@@renze7133 That's nonsensical logic. Without Kuss riding domestique Rog does not win Giro. Without Kuss pacing the mountains Jonas does not beat Pog in TdF. There are no individual superstars in professional cycling. Its a myth. Having the guy blow himself in every grand tour stage this year for other riders, and then expecting him to somehow ride stronger than the 2 he spent all fucking season sheltering, is fucking moronic. Maybe Europeans aren't as intelligent as you all like to brag you are...
@@cjohnson3836 I don't think its a culture thing, as European Football is a great example of team work > individuals (mostly, football is more than Messi and Ronaldo level players) - I think Kuss just has the domestique mentality still that he's not there to be gifted a win by the two leaders coming into the race. That being said, I hope he keeps it, as it would be lifechanging for a guy like him.
When he got on the radio when he was getting dropped, he allegedly told them: “Go guys!”
The guy is just too nice
Excluding this Vuelta, Kuss has ridden 11 Grand Tours as a jumbo domestic, contributing to 6 victorys plus 2 second places at the TDF. A couple of those wins probably wouldn't have happened without him (roglic giro and his weaker vuelta wins). So the Jumbo tactics here are nothing but despicable.
yes I know I put the same thing under the podcast too but I didn't want to waste the 3min of pcs research lol
On the one hand, they should have waited for Kuss since he's worked tirelessly for them and since there was no tactical reason to drop him. On the other hand... wait, what the hell, why did they do that?!?!?!
because kuss is nothing compared to the other two, and could crack on a subsequent stage
On the other hand they are the reason Kuss is on the strongest team in the world. The reason he gets payed well and the reason he gets to be a domestique at all.
Because they can win it.
They owe him nothing. Domestiques have a clear job description. It’s not free helpers.
To become a captain you gotta beat the captain, not ask him to wait for you.
Roglic and Vingegaard both started as domestiques. They didn’t get their role gifted.
Let’s go Kuss, do it with your own legs and fuck these weak mentality fans.
On the other hand, Kuss told them over the radio "Go boys" when he couldn't follow anymore. Doing a little bit of research isn't that hard, though complaining is alot easier.
@@jbmuggins8815people have been saying that for three weeks. It’s week three now. He still hasn’t cracked.
@N2theLAS That tweet was fake, the DS said they couldnt hear him in interview. Nobody knows what he said. Very likely the opposite.
Dudes saying that roglic and jonas shouldnt wait because "the strongest win". remember that this is 5h GT in a row for Kuss. In 4 of them being the best domestique in the peleton. He could be potentially much much stronger at this moment if he could prepare for vuelta like roglic. Saying that the strongest wins is just so stupid at this particular moment
If Kuss does win it will be without support from his teammates. If the other two have a bad day Kuss would be there to offer a wheel. Kuss, so far, is being left to fend for himself with no ‘Kuss’ figure to support him. There is no gift at this stage. He has held his own with the current Giro and Tour winners attacking him.
These are my sentiments exactly. Who is the rider watching after the red jersey leader for TJV on climbs? No one... The team rides great until the climb, then they hit the climb and it's just Sepp fending for himself.
Lamda from other team, team up with kuss on the last climb.
Exactly. Kuss is essentially riding with 2 less domestiques (while having ridden every fucking GT stages of the year, no less)
It looked to me that Roglic just went for the stage, not the red. Not sure about Jonas though.
Kuss hasn’t had to pull since he’s been in red. He’s received the same cover as Primoz and Jonas. I love Kuss and hope he wins…but he’s in red bc Jonas was sick the first week. I blame the sports director for having a philosophy that encourages the leaders to go against each other. Primoz and Jonas don’t do anything without an ok from the team car.
If Sepp leaves Jumbo after this, who could blame him? Vingegaard needs him for the Tour, there's no similar domestique at the moment.
Yeah but the thing is: the best wins. No gifts in professional sports.
Bien pues si deciden separar sus caminos estaría bien ! Creo que kuss puede luchar por una clasificación general
Pero eso sí , alguno de los tres no sigue la siguiente temporada
Roglic pulled for Vingegaard nicely today, so there is his new domestique.
Maybe that's all part of Roglic's plan - to get sent to the Tour as a domestique and then win it
Landa braking over the line to gift Sepp the bonis. An honorary American!
Yes Kuss owes him a burrito.
Love how you sprinkle in the still shots in these videos
Good thing Landa was there to do the job Sepp’s teammates wouldn’t. As Dan Lloyd said, “a PR own goal for TJV”. I have felt mostly positively about this team until today. Let’s see what tomorrow brings.
When I saw Almeida drop at the start and then start catching people I immediately thought of LR’s rant the other day 😂
jumbo visma has basically secured all the podium positions at this point, i hope tjv sees that and stops roglic and vingegaard from attacking kuss from this point onwards
Why?! The current "deal" on Jumbo's team is, that all three (Jonas, Kuss, Promoz)can make a go for it as long as they don't take any of their rivals with them! And I think that it is as fair as it could be!
This is not a “Me Too” where we all sit and hold hands and sing “We Are The World” kind of sport for god sakes! Let them all ride for it and let the best man win! And evertybody can see that Jonas is level above and basically held back today!
@@dennisdevelin if they all finish at the same time at the last stage you can get a cool picture with the giro winner tour winner and vuelta winner
Are you suggesting that if Kuss is having another bad day and other riders attack Roglic and especially Vingegaard should just hold back because Kuss has to win? I can’t agree with this view that so many people seem to have about Kuss deserving to win for some reason. The best rider deserves it. If its just gifted to someone it isn’t even a real win.
@@Maussiegamer Are you suggesting that if Kuss is having another bad day and other riders attack Roglic and especially Vingegaard should just hold back because Kuss has to win? I understand the viewpoint because Kuss has helped Vinegaard so much but i can’t agree with it. So many people seem to have that view that Kuss deserves to win. The best rider deserves it. If its just gifted to someone it isn’t even a real win.
@@hektor7798 But see that's the thing, Kuss didn't really have a bad day the last two days. The only one putting him under pressure is his own teammates deciding to up the pace on their own volition. If those two don't attack, you wouldn't even know that he didn't have the legs to put out that kind of wattage.
Jonas had no business following Roglic's wheel when he already took time from them yesterday. Roglic kept his pace because he wants the stage win. He's more than 1 minute behind Kuss in GC so he isn't threatening the red jersey. Jonas could have slowed down and stayed with Kuss, if he really wants Kuss to stay in red. His actions say otherwise. 🤷♀️
he want kuss to WIN by winning, not giving him it as kuss dont want that either
On steep climbs like that there is no help from teammates - it is every man for him self. So if Jonas had stayed it would not have changed a thing. Hollow win for Sepp if he cannot even beat his own teammates. There is a reason he is a domestic and not a captain - he is not strong enough. You know nothing about cycling thats clear..
@@Bulldog2833 Really ? Haven't you noticed how Landa joining Sepp helped him save the day ?
Totally agree. Interesting that the Jumbo DS didn't ask Jonas to stay with Sepp. So even team mgt aren't supporting their race leader. Primoz and Jonas demonstrated today that Sepp is dispensable and they're after the race win. This dynamic could alter the future make up of this team. Sepp was abandoned on his birthday, Jonas could have been selfless today, but chose not to be 🤔
@@morvudd1165 yeah really! You know nothing about professional cycling thats clear mate..
that Wout poels still can ride high tempo like he did for froome is just a different level
Almost couldn't get that KILLER birthday candle line out LR? Loved it
Yes they should’ve waited for him & pull😂 but Sepps a beast too, he held his own. ❤
Landa was the only birthday present for Sepp today! Team morale at JV means nothing it seems.
Hope van Aert is watching and decides just to ride for breakaway stage wins and sprints next Tour de France and completely ignores helping Vingegaard.
For all the Jonas and Primoz haters, I hereby quote them:
Jonas: “The stage win was our main goal today. The goal was of course to remain in the first three spots of GC. Everything went according to the plan. To be honest, I’m happy that Sepp is riding in the jersey. I hope he holds on to it. I would find it amazing if Sepp wins the Vuelta.
Primoz: “It’s my own responsibility to do my upmost. Eventually we’ll see who is the strongest. The one with the best legs will win the Vuelta.”
Sepp: “On monday we decided to let the strongest one win. Winning the Vuelta won’t be easy. I know this is my only chance to win a Grand Tour. I never expected to be in this position. I went in without expectations and wanted to help the others. Now I have this beautiful jersey. Backstage, we work together very well. Of course I want to go for my own chances, but I don’t mind riding for the others.”
And lastly Grischa, team leader: “It’s incredible. We’re looking good, but er have a few tough stages still to go. I think that everyone likes to see Sepp in the lead. But we decided that everyone could ride for their own chances.”
Hope this somewhat makes the situation in the team clear
Sigh. PR is a thing in a sport with sponsors. This is a nightmare for PR.
You must be kidding, right? No one is that naive. Roglic and Vingegaard are fighting for the GC win, shamelessly. And Jumbo Visma is an absolute disgrace. If Kuss stays in this team in 2024 he deserves the humiliation. I've been watching grand tour cycling for thirty years now and never have I seen such a shit show of raw ambition and disrespect for a team mate.
Roglic has got the Quintana syndrome. He's permanently pissed off from not every having won the Tour and has lost all sense of team play.
@@contracultura4111 Kuss is still in the lead tho, and he said himself in an earlier interview that he didn’t want it to be gifted, which is reasonable. Also… I didn’t say this mate, that was them
@@paulevans6403 Roglic isn’t winning this Vuelta anymore, not with Vingegaard also there. And I don’t see what he did wrong, as orders for this have been given by not only the team but literally also Kuss. I hereby quote Sepp once more, what he allegedly said when he got dropped by Jonas and Primoz through his radio: “Go guys!”
Great video LR! I still believe in Jumbo letting GC KUSS win the overall, but at this point I don't even know what they're planning anymore.
Also what really got me in stitches was the "and they keep going" at 2:32, timed so perfectly that you see the roadside sponsor ad that says "KEEP GOING" 😂
Thank you for this. Was waiting for this
I've always had this question and can't hold it anymore. When Landa "saves" Kuss, why is it so? Isn't the drafting advantage almost none when going uphill? Why is it still so helpful? Genuinely curious.
I think part of it is psychological as well - having someone to follow at whatever level of cycling on whatever gradient always feels easier. The reverse when you can't quite hang on is equally true
It's the mental aspect of having a wheel to hang on to, it's an obviuous task to "hold on" and you can dig deeper without starting to thinking about your situation. There is almost 0 draft. But the Mental aspect in pro sports accounts imho at least for 50% of the effort. Hope this helps.
Just having someone to set a pace for you is helpful. So long as they don't push you over your limit... I imagine it's mostly just psychologically helpful. It always seems easier to give more when cycling with other people. But being experienced pros, you'd imagine they'd know where and how to always push to their absolute limit, but I guess human nature affects us all!
Thank you for the answers, people. I let myself forget how much camaraderie and human touch affect cyclists. @handlebard @iaian @beautoxt3482
The end of the climb is fairly shallow, followed by a small plateau and a descent, draft matters a lot in those situations
To those who think Kuss shouldn't be "gifted a win": what is the difference between Kuss pacing for another rider to help them win a grand tour vs. other riders pacing for Kuss in this Vuelta? Does it mean Kuss has "gifted" his captains the Tour and Giro this year? I'm honestly trying to understand your viewpoint.
The difference is that Kuss was never stronger than the riders he was pacing for.
The reason is that the gc riders are just stronger then kuss when it comes down to it he cant keep up
Kuss won the stage and got to the current position he deserves. As simple as this. They did not gift him the stage. They simply was not as good in the previous stages.
@@markus539 The difference is, Vingegaard and Roglic are the types to never allow Kuss in a breakaway again after this.
Whereas people like Froome got behind Geraint Thomas when he was leading the Tour de France, rather than sulking about coming in team leader.
@@markus539 but it's stage 17 and he is still ahead so they are not that strong I guess.
Kuss might need to find a new team after this. Seems very little mutual respect here... He rides selflessly for Roglic and Vingegaard when they are in the lead, but they drop him without concern when he's in the lead.
JV and PR are captains, Kuss is a domestique. It's his job to work for them, that's what he's paid for. If he'd drop them in a race, without consent, he'd be out of a job.
@@darkiee69 He would sign as a leader for another team
@@darkiee69but it’s about making friends in a peloton. Those two won’t be so happy when kuss switches teams. Look even other people like landa helping him out because he has more friends. Not to mention it’s common race etiquette to not attack your teammate in red this far in when there’s absolutely zero threat to losing the jersey to a rival team
@@darkiee69 You left out the most important part. Here let me help you out. JV and PR are TEAM captains.
@@mtnbf So, why aren't they picking up every domestique that falls behind then, so they can ride like a team? Wake up, this isn't TTT.
I guess people forget that the captain of a team is whoever is best on GC and is not threatened by the competition. Every teammate should protect his position, regardless of the fact that this person may not have come to the race with any ambition and regardless of any other potential personal need of his teammates. When Kuss, Vingegaard and Roglic were alone at 2km to the finish line there was no need to drop him, especially for Vingegaard. Stop saying "the best rider should win the race", as if every grand tour winner isn't used to take advantage of his teammate at every possible chance. It doesn't matter that Vingegaard won the Tour and Roglic the Giro: if Kuss is in red, they are all alone with him in the front, you don't attack him: someone (Vingegaard) should have played the role of his domestique
Kuss saluting Landa at the end. That was nice.
UAE: well if we can't get on the podium we'll at least get the.most dysfunctional team award
TJV: hold my bidon
TJV - hold my bidon while we do what ever the hell we like, and still get all 3 podium spots.
Solerism back on full form today. :D
Its the beat team in the world. Kuss telling Primoz and Jonas to go when he felt hos legs was not the best. Primoz g’ets the win. Jumbo visma is on the podium with 3 riders and 3 minutes Down to 4th. I would Call that a pretty well functional team bro
Best post of the day!😂
I'm split: on the one hand, Kuss has done such a good job. He deserves the win! On the other, this is a race. The best/strongest should win.
yeaah I feel the same!! I get that a GC victory is a huge accomplishment already, but as a competitor, I wonder how you feel if you know you kind of been "gifted" the victory...
Well, you can hope kuss has better legs the rest of the Vuelta, so he can be the strongest one winning.
its always a team winning, none of the 3 TJV-Captains could win without Dylan van Barle pacing all day for example, and roglic wouldn`t win this years giro without kuss - so that argument just goes so far....
Same. It's not even that they don't want Sepp to win. It's that they can still lose, Roglic losing to Pogacar is still fresh in memory. They can't be complacent with 4 minutes when there is still a few stages, 1 mountain.
Imagine Roglic and Kuss pacing yesterday to not lose time in GC. It's not strongest should win when you are team.
After rooting for Vingegaard at the last two TdF, the symphathy scores, I had for him, have imploded today.
That means, that I hope that Remco will beat him at next year's TdF, although I used to be rather suspicious about his performances.
And if not Remco, then Tadej, to whom I also used to be rather suspicious, or anyone else, but Jonas.
It may not be logical, but that's how I FEEL after this stage. Don't even feel sorry for leaving Jonas followers. Greetings from Germany.
Nobody cares about your feelings. Stick to ice skating, elite sports isn't for you.
everyone is suspicious except anyone from a team that win everthing this year ? interesting take for sure
looked very weired today, but buttom line Vingegaard could have taken the red jersey easily today by working together with Roglic but decieded not to do so.
You're probably right. But usually I don't put whole teams under investigation, but individual riders. The next doping campaign will be a genetic one, Lance Armstrong speculated a decade ago. Are there already mRNA shots to improve things endurance, recovery, metabolization rates, etc.? Several years ago I read reports about teenage Belgian cyclists who died suddenly and unexpected, as it was reported for some batches of covid vaccines. Yesterday Nathan van Hooydonck (JBV) collapsed unexpected behind the wheel of his car and caused an accident. His conditions were said to be life-theatening, yet they couldn't find anything the day after...
@@bjornuhrig9960Yeah, sports is like this, yet his first Vuelta victory surely would be a Pyrrhus victory, as he will loose all the credits from non-Danish followers, he gained by his last TdF wins. Sympathy is not a matter of ambition or success, but similar to love, a matter of caring or granting others, etc. Imagine how different he would be perceived, if he would have dragged Sepp up towards the finish line instead of following Primoz ? So Landa did the job which would have made all the hearts flutter for Jonas.
The positive press giving a domestique a win in a grand tour would instantly make Roglic and Vingegaard legendary. One grands tour more or less for them two doesn't really change their post career image, I think.
That last hour of the stage is worth watching for anyone who has access to it.
A hard stage and a very tactical play by TJV... And happy birthday Kuss!!! 🎂 ❤
tactical????
tactical ????
tactical???
Landisimo 👏🏻
The work Landa did for Kuss in those final kilometers really proves that he will be a great helper for Evenepoel next year!
Can someone explain to me why Roglic and Vingegaard didnt carry kuss to the finish line? Why didnt the team say to roglic and vingegaard "Hey Guys, wait for sepp!"? What exactly is the tactic?
Kuss: Vingegaard told me on the climb that I would win the Vuelta, but I was skeptical. I told them to go on when I couldn't follow anymore. The strongest must win.
No crying from Kuss. Vingegaard wants Kuss to win, but if he ain't fast enough, Vingegaard will take it. That's top sport, deal with it and stop crying, folks!
Treacherous team mates!!! I hope Sepp remembers this next year!
He'd still be a domestique then, hired to help the captains. It's not the captains job to help the domestiques.
I hope he goes to another team! Let's see Roglic win another Giro without Sepp coming back to wait for him and tow him up the mountains.
@@trenaparks3702 His contract goes all through 2024 too. After that, who knows.
@@trenaparks3702stay hydrated with all that uneasiness 😂
champagne!!!!!
It’s one thing for Roglic to shore up the third place as Vingegaard did in previous 1-2-3 but had no reason to kick Kuss in the nuts and take him out of red. Jonas could have supported Sepp and helped him to the line but did not. Disappointing from Roglic and Jonas.
On steep climbs like that there is no help from teammates - it is every man for him self. So if Jonas had stayed it would not have changed a thing. Hollow win for Sepp if he cannot even beat his own teammates. There is a reason he is a domestic and not a captain - he is not strong enough.
BS@@Bulldog2833
@@Bulldog2833it could tho, mentally
Roglic is a creep, but Jonas was despicable today.
There's just not a single likeable thing about Vingegaard. Like OK, we get it, you have freakish lungs compared to anyone else on earth, could you perhaps find a barely decent personality to go with it.
@@Bulldog2833 It would have helped as he was losing time until he got help from another team. He was like 30 seconds down and dropping. He ending up only 19 seconds down thanks to his competitor.
Too hyped for the drama/discussion/speculation
Cobo hahaha. Poels did really good this stage. I like to see him riding well. Roglic just smashed this climb. He looked invincible.
I think Jonas had his number but just sat on his tail...
Roglic is a has been. Barely won the Giro by the skin of his teeth. Crashes out of just about everything else. He’ll never win the TdF.
@@msemmahale4608 That's perfect because the Vuelta is the showcase for has-beens.
Life in the Peloton podcast just released an excellent interview with Sepp Kuss earlier today. Highly recommended.
At least in the Danish interview after the stage, Jonas seemed to support that Kuss should win the Vuelta. I dont think Jonas/Primoz will attack Kuss tomorrow. So if Kuss can keep up with the other strong opponents, I think Kuss will win the Vuelta.
I mean, Jonas could just "accidentally" sprint for tomorrow and won it by accident.
He will win it for his auntie who sprained her ankle yesterday
They've both been saying that for a week, yet keep attacking
@@JohnSmith-pn1vv LOL. Your comment made me laugh so hard! Thanks for cheering up my day.
They will leave Kuss in the dust as they try and kick each other's arses.
Lets just say Tadej Pogacar is accumulating fans for next years Tour de France by the day.
8 seconds … small enough for Jonas to accidentally win … Roglic will sulk and attack for second … Kuss may even end up mentally crushed by the on the team coach politics and end up with nothing … in the future Jonas will have fewer haters as a result, Roglic will not care and Kuss will still be a nice guy cherished by those who value selflessness and loyal …. Just supposin’
Pogačar and Kuss please
kuss will just have to accept being the third strongest rider in the race. if he was better, he would win. he is not. he is a domestic for a reason
@@jbmuggins8815so cycling isn’t a team sport after all. It’s an individual sport with servants.
@@mjtpli Exactly. There's the captain, and everyone else. The team is there for the captain, that's it, that's what they're paid for. Did it take you 'til now to figure that out?
Roglic might attack which will force Jonas to respond.
What an amazing birthday present for Sepp Kuss from his "team-mates"!
Kuss has GOT to recover better than the others. And he could recruit help from other teams.
It seemed to me that even Sepp was riding for Primoz to get the stage today. But why did Jonas drop him? I hope there is a reason, because I honestly admire all three of these riders. Go Sepp! He's earned this grand tour win!
There was definitely no need for Jonas to follow Primoz other than ego. It makes sense for Primoz to go up the road to drop Landa and take the stage win, especially considering he's more than a minute behind. Jonas should have paced Sepp the rest of the way.
I don't admire Vingegaard or Roglic one bit.
Did you see Roglic's interview on Eurosport; he doesn't want the stage (he barely looked interested in it), he wants the red jersey. While Vingegaard had zero fear of Roglic gaining more than 15 seconds on him if he'd just rode Kuss in, but wants red himself.
@@luckyspursoh no he really wanted that stage, like every climber in the world wants to conquer Angliru… anyone who is not completely deranged or a psycho, like Vinge perhaps…
Sepp : "guys im dropped"
Primoz: "do I know you?"
😂😂
Can not believe how Sepp’s teammates are riding, his leading the race , leading the race as race leader , who you help not drop
May the best win. I would love to see them three full gas today in the finish and let the legs decide who deserves the victory. No gifts please
If Kuss doesn't win this, he should go to UAE and help Pogacar do to JV what they've done to Pogacar the last two Tours.
brilliant 😮
I don't think this whole debate should be about which one of the 3 deserves it most. I just feel like it's strange to attack/drop your teammate IN THE LEADER'S JERSEY this late into the race. No matter which teammate it is. Hell, if it was Kaden Groves in red, you better believe his team would do everything in their might to somehow get him over these last few mountains. But I guess going into the race with 2 leaders (and now 3) was doomed from the beginning for TJV. No result other than Kuss holding his own tomorrow and holding on to the jersey by his own merit can be truly satisfactory for this Vuelta.
Just because all you guys like Sepp doesn't mean he should he gifted the GC of a grand tour. Get real, people!
There's a big difference between gifting and giving support to a deserving red jersey who has gifted you his support time and time again. The frantic pace and attack from Primoz when the team has 1-3 locked up is absolutely unecessary.
I don't think you understand cycling as a team sport. The goal is precisely to help one of your teamates to win a race
Of course! Djokovic should also gift away the next Grand Slam and Verstappen should lose the championship on purpose! Or wait - is it only cycling who have such an immature and dumb fan base?
@@marccruz4055 Since when do riders two and a half weeks into a Grand Tour have to worry about their own teammates when they're wearing the leaders jersey?
He's not being distanced by anyone else.
@@ofouadjsqbdhbfhsXC I don't think you understand cycling as a race and how audience interest works and how individual ability should matter till the end. You are talking about synchronized diving or field hockey. Or two football teams shoving the ball around for 30 minutes because they both need a draw.
Great stage and big ups to Soler and Bahrain Victorious for making it fun to watch! I'd be surprised if Jonas takes red in the next two days as he could've taken it today but chose not to contest for the stage. As for the dilemma of the red jersey wearer though, imo Sepp is ultimately not the strongest rider in his team and gained all his time from a break early on in the race, so letting Roglic and Vingegaard race the full three weeks for GC makes sense for TJV and it maintains credibility to the Vuelta as a race to be contested. I'd love it for Kuss to win this GT, but if i were him I'd want to win it on merit racing the way that TJV have raced so far rather than have my clearly fresher legged teammates rolling over and gifting it away. It's a Grand Tour, not a Birthday present, and if Kuss wins now it's because along with being the best of a breakaway group in stage 6, he set a decent TT, made it up the Tourmalet, survived the L'Angliru etc, it's not just because Vingegaard and Roglic stopped pedalling by stage 7.
Landa is the true hero of today stage
I'm so glad that Roglic and Vingegaard attack, otherwise the Vuelta would be pretty boring. The otherteams are 3-4 steps below TJV. Kuss is sympathetic guy and he does deserve to try and win. But this is racing, they make it interesting. And Roglic said it well today: "The strongest should win, as long as we get position 1, 2 and 3." Well said.
so Roglic in his post-race interview basically saying he went pretty much full gas and that Kuss should just fight for it and he’ll win. I mean… cool that he believes in him. But perhaps he shouldn’t forget that if it wasn’t for Kuss he maybe wouldn’t have won all the races he has. Cycling as a team sport has strange dynamics and today it worked out perfectly for the team, but still it’s a bit weird how not Jonas nor Primoz can adapt to being a domestique, especially to Kuss, who is well ready to take the win. Saying as a Slovene and Roglic fan. Sorry he can’t win it but the beauty of cycling still is that it is inherently a team sport
"..But perhaps he shouldn’t forget that if it wasn’t for Kuss he maybe wouldn’t.." Kuss is literally a helper/servant in the race for Roglic and Vingegaard. So your statement is literally moronic.
roglic didnt say that ! Roglic said he just went the tempo that felt good for him and didnt want to slow down
Was it three years ago when we first noticed Jonas as a sacrificial, though notable domestique, on the Angliru...?
Yeah, I remember Sepp repeatedly looking back and waiting for Roglic, who could not hold his wheel, but that stage ultimately went to Hugh Carthy though Roglic retained GC lead, and went on to win that Vuelta.
Sepp kuss fucking told Them to go. He had even Said that after. They didnt just attack him. The plan was surely that he would go with Them. But i didnt hav the legs and told Them to go. The radio Said: “GO GUYS”
Exactly! I bet it's toxic within the team now 😢
Why are Roglic and Vingegaard making it hard on Kuss by attacking early?
Any rider could have a bad day tomorrow or worse, that's why they're (anyone with a chance of winning) all trying to put time in the bank.
@@nt78stonewobble Only Landa was left with them and he is not a GC threat. They already put time on the others. Why not ride a tempo and sprint to the finish?
This is a team sport they should protect their leader. It’s one thing if Sepp cracks and has a bad day, it’s another when you attack your leader 3km from the end of the stage when nobody from another team is nearby or even close on GC. Jumbo is taking an amazing PR story and turning it into a PR disaster.
Except Kuss was never their leader, he just happened to be ahead.
The sports director Was able to call Sepp kuss back before He went into Red Jersey!
And Attacke your Team mate in a Team Event not only once, but 2 days in a row!
Sepp kuss fucking told Them to go. He had even Said that after. They didnt just attack him. The plan was surely that he would go with Them. But i didnt hav the legs and told Them to go. The radio Said: “GO GUYS”
Lmao kuss legit told them to go yall just making up stories
PR disaster? This is not Le Mans 1966
Sepp is having a superb race, but he hasn't got the same legs on these savage climbs. We can't expect a tow from the other leaders. It's Sepp's job to stick to the wheel of Jonas when he goes, but he couldn't do it. Roglìc has to attack, because Bahrain's crazy pace was hitting the buffers already, so they didn't want to get caught by those riding on the back of the Bahrain train. It was the moment to go for the stage win. Ideally, the three of them would have gone together. It wasn't as if Roglic lit up the afterburners, he just rocked his own pace for that type of brutal incline to ensure a win for the team and obviously for himself if possible, which he did.
Last year Sepp had to pace Rog up these same "savage climbs". The dude has raced every GT stage this year. And he's held the red jersey here with 2 fewer domestiques than any other non-TJV rival. Your argument doesn't hold water.
@@cjohnson3836 It's not an argument, it's only my opinion. Anyway, what you have said was last year. I wouldn't have thought anyone owes him anything from last year. That's the job of a domestique in a team anyway. As far as I can tell, Team Jumbo-Visma has 3 potential winners, neither of them are working as domestiques, they are trying to secure a 1-2-3 whatever way they can. Where was the domestique back up? He'd already blown up, so they had to do it this way. Going up at a slower pace to tow Sepp could have left them open to losing the stage, and possibly losing more time against potential podium rivals.
Losing more time!? They had time gaps to everyone today regardless. Attacking your own teammate in red is against the unwritten rule period
@@markdonovan1540 Omg you're daft. Its not about who is owed, knob. Its about the physical reality that Rog needed Kuss to pace him up the climb for him to win. Its about the fact that Jonas needed Kuss to blow the selection up for him to win. Its the simple fucking fact that no GT winner wins by themselves.
[Where was the domestique back up?]
THEY are the domestique back up! That's how a cycling team works. Why are you expecting Kuss to do something that neither of the other two were successful at?
@@emperored7771 Please can you share with us the unwritten rule, so we can read it. Oops, you'll have to write it then. OK, forget it. We'll just keep on enjoying the RACING and see how it pans out.
Great ride from Jumbo "Cobra Kai" Visma. Don't forget to sweep the leg, no mercy even if it's your teammate.
Get him a body bag!
Very logical:
1) TJV wants to ensure that should something bad happens to Kuss, Roglič and Vingegaard will still retain their comfortable margin to other teams, so that their GC lead is absolutely secure. (Remember, it only takes a single crash and everything changes!)
2) Primož wanted to win the stage and try to close the gap to Jonas, if possible. He knew that he's likely too far behind Sepp to threathen him anyway.
2) Jonas would like to see Sepp to win the GC, but also wants to maintain his own gap to Primož, just in case.
Thus, Primož attacked to win the stage and Jonas had to follow to prevent him from closing the gap between them. Closing the gap to Sepp was a mere byproduct. Jonas would rather have liked Sepp to be able to hold his wheel, but he couldn't.
Don't bring your logic to a LR comments section.... This is the place for wild speculation and delusion 😂
There was literally no reason for anyone in Jumbo to attack when they did. The three of them could have ridden across the finish line together and never been at risk of losing any podium position. The attacks against their own teammate are utter rubbish.
I completely agree! Sadly Kuss looks like the victim of a battle between Jonas and Roglic. Roglic and Jonas probably have the same mindset: First priority is that the team should win, but I want to be the one to do it. Maybe it's a mentality you need to be a GC rider.
It does look like both are willing to help Sepp win the race, but not each other. As you said a crash can change it all, so they both want to make sure if that happens they are the ones to claim it.
To me it’s clear from both the stage and the interviews after.. Roglic wants Roglic to win it. No surprise we know he’s an assassin. Kuss feels he’s earned it. But he’d rather not be gifted it. And Jonas wants Kuss to win and if he can he will help that cause tomorrow. Earned a few fans today I thought did Jonas.. Jumbo have it all sewn up, they are already celebrating…. Big day for the American coming up!
No, Vingegaard attacked Kuss yesterday! Vingegaard help would be, stay in front of Kuss, pulling him!!! But that didn't happened 2 days in a row!
@@felixerler388maybe bcuz he had better legs??? Bcuz he wanted a stage win??? If he feels good he should attack
@@felixerler388 Jonas doesn't want to lose his 2nd place to Primoz nor does he want to give the Vuelta win to Primoz. If Primoz is going for it and it looks like Sepp cannot defend then Jonas will ride for his own chance. Jonas went for the stage win yesterday, he didn't know that they would finish so far behind him. Everyone has said that it's super unusual for the other GC riders not to chase.
Yeah right, Judas Vingegaard probably lost a lot of fans in the last couple of days!
Basically Vingegaard can decide if he or Kuss wins the Vuelta. This decision might give or cost him a huge amount of sympathy from the fans. I‘m not sure abour Roglic. Maybe he only went for the stages and will not catch Kuss anyways, because he has over one minute to gap.
Bro they better ride for Kuss tomorrow. But i get it, pro sport has no gifts. And none of them might be in this position ever again. When you have La Vuelta win on the line you will fight for it. Goes for all 3 of them. But Kuss would be a nice champion :) Go Kuss!
Just cross your fingers for his legs being better. I do...
But if the legs aren't there, then the strongest deserve to win.
this vuelta reminds me a lot of the 2012 tour... you had a defending champ with a relatively weaker team (cadel evans in 2012 and remco in this years vuelta) who cracked really badly one day and then an absolutely stacked team with drama between who should be the real leader (sky with froome and wiggins in 2012, jumbo with sepp, jonas, and roglic now). the main difference being, that sepp is in the leaders jersey rather than froome and wiggins hadn't won a grand tour at the time.
i think what makes this vuelta so much more interesting is that sepp clearly is not as strong as jonas or even primoz. i think we would all love to see sepp win the vuelta, and i believe if he gets through tomorrow he will. also, i do think jonas seems more genuine when he says he wants to see sepp win the vuelta. he certainly could have taken the red jersey today if he wanted to, but he just sat in primoz's wheel. primoz on the other hand, seems to know that his time is coming to an end and that this could be one of his last chances to win a grand tour. as much as he wants sepp to win, he also wants to win for himself. tomorrow (stage 18) will be really interesting for sure
People are commenting without knowing the details behind the scenes. Does somebody know what was the agreement inside the team ? From my point of view it was be "Everyone for himself BUT do not jeopardies " the 1-2-3. You can give a stage win to somebody or even give him the leaders jersey for a few days, but we are talking about a grand tour. We are talking about history, fame and lots of money. For Jumbo and for the riders also. Personally i was sure that Kuss will not win it. It would be nice to see a man like Kuss win the Vuelta, but in the same time i would know that he was gifted the win and did not deserve it. Jonas and Roglic are one class better then Kuss. Jonas might win it because Roglic was more like a gentleman the Jonas, he attacked Kuss less the Jonas, but Jonas was more aware or attacks and followed more attacks, thus he gained time. I am sure that Roglic would give the win to Kuss, he is more mature but Jonas is like a shark , he wants blood , he is young and want more titles.
Jonas is a smart rider. He's a borderline unreadable, both by stage and by tour. Played domestique early in the Vuelta and didn't look like much of a GC candidate, but then did what he did in Le Tour and wound it up gradually. Keeps his powder dry, loses a few seconds here and there without freaking out over big attacks, and always sees the bigger picture - even if that means dropping his teammate. I think Roglic is his main rival, not Kuss. Jonas can win the Vuelta if he wants to, but maybe he lets Kuss stay in red and keeps him on side (in 2024+). I love all these guys - Pog, Rog, Kuss, Remco - but to me, Jonas is on another level right now. The GC battle is all TJV - of course they're going to fight it out for ultimate honours.
Vingegaard's the most readable rider in the entire Peleton.
He cares about Jonas Vingegaard 100% of the time, not a single other rider in the field.
@@luckyspurs Ah yes, that's why he was in tears 300 m before finish line on stage 16 after learning that Nathan van Hooydonck barely survived his car accident. Such a selfish unemphatic person he is..
"Shot a cat and got released.." I forgot about this and it caught me off guard how casual it was dropped lmfaaoo! keep it up Laterne Rouge!
I thought it was just a joke! I searched that exact phrase and couldn't believe it
Feral barn cat. Farm life. Get over it.
@@charliedillon1400except it wasn’t. You support that prick getting a second professional contract? Explain that
I'm surprised you didn't mention Remco looking scared on the technical downhill today. Lost most of this lead there
What I would give to be on the JV team bus tomorrow morning at pre-race meeting 😬😬😬
Landa, class act.