These conversations should take place in every college, every semester. Instead, students are encouraged to cling to their beliefs and to see non-believers are enemies to be silenced and destroyed. How did this happen?
Yes. From any angle it doesn't make sense not to, unless the point is to "un-person" them. Understanding why someone thinks like thy do is surely the best way to "defeat them", if you're that way inclined. Maybe it's a fear of contagion. Probably a better question would be how did this happen again? People becoming beyond the pale crops up quite frequently in our history. The printing press and telegraph were huge, but the effects of the avalanche of 24/7 information we have now we'll have to leave to future historians.
Except he needs to speak his mind more. This was like an echo chamber of terrible illogical ideas and you can tell he knew it was all ridiculous but didn't ever correct them. They probably walked away thinking they're brilliant 😂.
Divided people are easier to rule. The establishment and the billionairs know that their party and parasite behaviour ends when normal people find common ground and have a look at what really should be improved in the world.
@@Wombattery_1000 Do you understand what epistemology is? He is not trying to teach them what to think, he is trying to help them understand how to think critically.
President Trump already has a SUCCESSFUL record of running the nation. His policies work for Americans and hers don't. Our bank accounts, the price of groceries, and the border prove that.
You assume that either of them have any divergent interests. They are both working for the same team. You are advocating for more of their absurd theater.
@@r0xjo0 You assume they do have the same interests. Let's say the they do. What's evident is the processes. In which the people are affected. The last 4 years of policy results are clear. It's unsustainable.
Certain races developed nothing, beg for everything. Hint: Michael Brown and 50% of gay black men have what in common with Colin Kappernig? Answer: Bottoms
Woah woah, some people want to be slaves because they do not have an interest at all in "figuring it out." Look at all the street people who get free stuff for nothing. Are you saying they wouldn't prefer to live on the farm with access to all the nice things like free food and a roof and conjugal visits? That's literally the oil sands.
I'll tell you what, the parents of these young adults are not wasting their money. It was so refreshing to hear such clear, concise arguments. Well done, everyone!
It’s bonkers how we went from “judge people by the content of their character, not their race” to “race tells you everything you need to know about a person and it’s racist to not think that way” in less than a decade. It’s like everything we learned from the 60s-70s has been intentionally educated out of the young people.
It puzzles me too. It's almost like the attitude is now "someone's got to suffer, so two wrongs make a right". The first time I heard the term Critical Race Theory, a couple of thoughts ran through my head. Firstly, it sounded a bit like a late 19th early 20th C Eurocentric idea putting the "races" in order of superiority and I was surprised I hadn't heard of it. It didn't sound quite right though, so I thought maybe it was a new idea, with the results the opposite way round to my imagined one! To be fair, a brief search of it led me to agree with the two main points made, but it's been terribly implemented and the point about races being a made up concept is now ignored. It's now a term to mean everything again, from nationality to culture, to anything you like.
@@jimb9063 CRT absolutely loops back to that idea that was popular in the early twentieth century. It treats the idea of race as though the word race means species. Personally I think the idea of race is a ludicrous proposition...
@@jswets5007 At least we know what a nuclear weapon is. Race, Religion, and Nationality remain far more dangerous IMO because they can be anything you like.
@@jimb9063 Only because people are refusing to accept the long held and completely rational definitions of those and other words. Civilization requires social cooperation and the observation of logical good faith actions. Semantics is the science of the meaning of words, and science is considered to be colonialism... It is a sad state of affairs. 😂
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Oh don't kid urself. This stuffs been around the radical fringes since the 50s. I went to school at a pretty far left place in the early 80s, and it was all the rage. Think SFState and Berkeley, Crenshaw at UCLA, D Bell at Harvard, etc. Angela Davis was preaching this poison and given a megaphone to do so. P Friere and H Giroux been around Education for a long time, to say nothing of Foucault, Adorno, Marcuse, et al; Che, Castro, Ho Chi Minh, Mao before them. IOW, the 'long march' has been marching along for some time. But it was mainly in the academic fringe in The West. It picked up steam in the 90s with '3rd wave feminism', Judith Butler, radfems, and the like...until it rolled us over in the 00s and 2010s. It ALWAYS been cool to be a 'radical revolutionary'...even necessary. But once the revolutionary gets power, then the parasitism takes hold. Troubling.
@@allrequiredfieldsHow so? Because it sounds like you are judging the actions of the past by the standards of today. And that is a fools errand because the people of the future could then call you a barbarian because there is more slavery today than there was back then.
Such refreshing to see people disagreeing without being a complete asshole. We might not be seeing this in the coming years, so thank you for allowing discourse to happen.
These four guys really shocked me! I Follow Peter since the Grievance Studies first blowup, it feels SO GOOD to see young people being open to hard conversations!! Let there be hope!
I think one of the things that doesn't get discussed as often as it should is the cultural element to disparities. We often credit cultures for their strengths, like the concept of "German engineering" or "French cuisine," but blame perceptions of weakness on racism. My dad pointed out years ago that when Jews came to America, part of the reason they were hated by many Americans was because they achieved success in disproportionately large numbers. His observation was that the Jewish culture they brought with them held education in much higher esteem than most other cultures in the early 20th century, with most Jewish children learning to read and study by their early teens. They were starting from a much higher level of literacy than almost every other group of immigrants and THAT gave them a tremendous advantage. When I observe members of different Hispanic cultures where I live, I can see certain cultural values that work against them achieving success in our society - such as how motherhood is revered which I think influences many young Hispanic girls to value that more highly than education and which ultimately works against them finding academic success, or that the young men seem to value getting a job more than they value getting an education and a higher paying job. So, insofar as these observations are accurate, the "systemic" issues holding them back can be traced to their own cultural values not being in alignment with what is needed for "success" in their current environment and not a systemic racism in our society at large. Most humans are really attached to their cultural heritage and struggle to let it go, even if it's damaging their chances for success. Living in a multicultural society can focus a lot of attention on those traits that don't work for us, regardless of what ethnic or racial background we come from.
@@tonyhoffman3309 True, but I think culturally, motherhood for Jewish women isn't a right of passage into adulthood like it appears to be in many Hispanic cultures. It seems really obvious to me when I see young Hispanic girls with babies in local stores that they have reached a cultural milestone because of the baby.
This observation aligns with reality. Our immediate environment has a greater impact on our approach to life than whatever external impediments stand in our way. Cultural values such as higher education, rel!gi0n, industry, m0ral!ty, mərriage, and family can be great tools to offset whatever effect that the actions of any "0ppress0r" may have. Life at its core i's all about choices and perspectives. It's just very convenient to blame one's inadequacies on certain factors and entities than to look within.
I just found these Spectrum videos earlier today and have been watching them ever since. Such an excellent method of facilitating discussions. Thanks for doing these
I like the nerd w the glasses. He wears his style well, and he has a brain. And actually trys to play the game and steelman his opposition. The other kids will get there fosho:) W seeing you at lectures getting SOME CRITICAL THINKING into the kids. Doing the Lords work. Ty for sharing these
This is a brilliant way to have folks engage with things man. It gives everyone their voice as well as makes each voice be listened to. The beauty is in the simplicity.👍👍
What like the Vikings in England? Yeah your right But modern America is a mash of different completely looking peoples .Yet you have a core culture across colours or backgrounds. Like here in English all people born here share a culture from core morals,schooling,tastes, language,. Even if their parents were from elsewhere. I mean Christian ,moral,educated Brits.
@@mern2974 A "core culture across colours or backgrounds" is the ideal, but is being lost. Instead of a melting pot, it is becoming a salad, where the ingredients may be in the same bowl but they stay separate.
@@kevin-g1w that's crap. It won't work long term. In Britain we had a more coherent culture..until american culture started to take over. Even the way people speak is in Americanisms... Unfortunately it's made me dislike the U.S.
That's the point of DEI. If all cultures were equal then there would be no point in the effort of including other ones. Just like if all beliefs were equal there would be no point in street epistemology.
This was great. I loved how many of these young people were able to listen and move their positions so easily. Should remind us all to listen and not just argue our point.
I like what one of the panel said about needing to see the difference between affirmative action and DEI. Also, one person brought up capitalism which was odd to me. If you're running a company then you want the best possible people working for you. It doesn't matter what their race is; it matters what they're going to bring to your company. Also, spot on in saying that DEI is racist because it believes that a certain group of people need help because they don't have what it takes to get there on their own without someone stepping in to give it to them.
This is the way to teach children how to think critically. The last time I performed a quadratic equation was tenth grade, yet I've employed the empirical tools of logic and reason every single day of my life since.
Wow! These kids are actually thinking! This gives me hope. The college kids now will end up stuck between older generations who think critically, and younger generations who do also. They'll be surrounded on both sides.
What I’ve learned is how important having differences of opinion is and having that from a lot of different people. We are all born in our own unique environment and spend our time into certain topics that other may have spent more or less time and also come from different perspectives that you may have not considered. This will help ground your perspective in a better reality for all.
The Central Limit Theorem is a fundamental concept in statistics, but it does not relate to or address racial disparities directly. Racial disparities are complex social issues that require different approaches and analyses beyond the scope of the CLT.
Hard to listen to but huge respect to these guys for getting up on a stage and playing the game for us on TH-cam. I'm sure they'll watch this back and learn a lot about how to talk slowly and clearly which will be of huge benefit to them, regardless of belief. Interestingly, despite completely disagreeing with him strongly, maroon wobbly legs chap was top of class for me in articulation, followed closely by the black skirt lass. Superb episode
Super impressed with how this debate is conducted and the ability of the participants at debating. I know this is a different format but has anyone else seen the rapid talking / “gulp breathing” at high school debates where it is more important to says as many arguments as possible, for points, as opposed to explaining things or convincing others. What is with that?
People who argue in favor of description only do so because it benefits them, but if that same logic is applied against them... They will quickly change their minds. It's all about incentives. The best solution is not to give a biased incentive, either for or against one side, but to let them compete in a game without a biased judge. The disparities that occur will be for other reasons, not because the evaluation system is being unfair to one side.
Up until this video I was firmly in the camp that Systemic Racism doesn't exist in current America, but this video made me reconsider and now I can say with confidence.....yes there is and the people on stage are propagating it. DEI in practice favors on race/immutable characteristic over another. That is the very definition of racism. DEI is in schools, businesses, and government. We therefore have systemic racism in America.
A truly meritocratic society would yield inequality because not everyone can be at the top. Inequality is the way of the world. Life is not fair. Find a good person to love, work and appreciate your time on this planet, and hand it off to the ones you leave behind.
18:12 German young man said he would agree more with abolishing DEI if he had more proof that America is a true meritocracy, but he is supporting DEI which is not merit-based at all, how ironic...
Seems he believes that systemic discrimination is the reason for minorities not to be given opportunities despite equal competency. He thinks D. I. E can elevate them to even that out. Vs the belief others have, that it should or does elevate people with lower ability into a group of people with higher ability.
Equity reduces the opportunity for excellence. Diversity reduces the ability to select for excellence. Inclusion excludes and divides people by classifying them by physical and behavioural traits unrelated to ability..
Peter clearly used the HS debate program and an audience of fellow high schoolers as a means of showcasing the benefits of his program to pre-college age teens. This is a good thing. Street epistemology would yield a very different result with high school age thinkers and of course Peter wouldn't be able to capture HS debaters out on the streets. Coordinating with HS debate instructors gives Peter a means of accessing this particular age and level of thinkers and speakers. High level performing HS debaters are, quite obviously, much more apt to go deep on various issues than non-debaters. They are trained to do so and they love it which is why they take debate for multiple years and get so good at it. These kids were/are obviously very experienced in advocacy and argumentation. The results are obvious and I am sure will have a lasting impact on not only the debaters (who are impassioned of the subject area) but also their peers in the crowd. Nice work, Peter! And nice work high school admin. for making this happen. So very important.
Peter asked if a purely meritocratic society will produce desparities not racial specifically. I believe it would, the point of DEI is to try to fix that, in a very unnatural and injust way, that ends up being more harmful than helpful for the people they're trying to help
Any centralized apparatus that attempts to spread equity, (Equality of outcome), has always collapsed under its own weight and devolved into a morally bankrupt surveillance state that seizes the means of production.
Not american but i still consider it nuts how americans still equate "culture=race". Believe me... if you go abroad, we will KNOW you're american whether you're black, white or green.
In the UK, we have to refer to Equity as Equality, as it's illegal to discriminate based on Protected Characteristics. The mere fact we have to do that tells you the entire thing is as bent as a nine-bob note. Of course not a single person working in DEI, of which we have double the positions as compared to other countries, will volunteer that a conflict exists. They simply use the same US literature and sneak it in under the radar. My company is a major bank and, amongst many other CRJ insertions, actually has this statement in the mandatory training this year 'equity is needed to get us to the same starting place so that equality of outcome can be achieved' How maliciously dishonest can you get with the live of several thousand employees?
DEI is defined for me as a society of "mediocrity". We want the best people to do so many jobs, not a diversity hire who does not know right from left, or up from down. That kind of appointment will be the downfall in just a little way of that company or that system. Imagine if that is all you had to choose from!!! You want people to compete for jobs on a similar level. A high level. Encourage them to do and be their very best. No settling for the middle or just get by. That is how you get the most experienced and qualified. Peel a potato to perfection. Do not compromise.
The false middle fallacy needs to be challenged more. Just because two groups have different outcomes does not mean unfair discrimination has occurred or it is the effect of an injustice.
Even if the central limit theorem was applicable, as long as there's a spread to the distribution (i.e. nonzero variance) there'll be inequality. The main assumption of the CLT is that every individual behaves identically and independently.
DEI isn't about race. It's about money. The real issue it to examine DEI departments themselves, what exactly they do and how they get established. It's a familiar problem in many service industries: Consultants are brought in for a specific reason, but they decide they like the landscape, benefits and pay, and then create permanent jobs for themselves with the collaboration of Administration (as HR and DEI are part of Administration). Then they use their power to justify their positions by creating or exaggerating issues and ultimately divert more resources to themselves and away from teachers and students. DEI does not solve racial inequality. All we need to know to support this is that minority enrollment in higher education has never been lower.
I feel like a completely meritocratic system would still result in different outcomes in different groups (whatever group one might want to look at) as people make different choices. It's not entirely random, as there are some bodily differences between ethnicities, like average height for example.
At this point it's just a cut out for "I don't actually know", like the women who blame patriarchy for everything. It's worse though, because when people blame capitalism for problems, they're usually problems which exist universally even within socialism and communism.
That guy royally botched the central limit theorem (a theorem on convergence of statistical distributions) so badly that I don't even know where to begin?!
He's a kid under the gun in a debate-- let's give him a little bit of a break and be happy he could articulate his points and steelman his own positions.
10:50 That is not the Central Limit Theorem. The central limit theorem has to do with averages of random samples of a population being normally distributed, which has nothing to do with the population being normally distributed. It’s one of the most surprising finds for me in statistics, because it implies that the population distribution can be ANY SHAPE and you’ll still get the normal (Gaussian) distribution of averages.
They shouldn’t have allowed the conversation on DEI to revolve around race but rather focus on the Diversity, Equity, & Inclusion, how it may manifest in different scenarios depending on organization needs, etc.
But it doesnt. It only manifests around race and sexual orientation which is why its so toxic. Western woke leftists just take words that sound good but then completely twist them to mean radically different, often opposite to what the words actually mean, all in an effort to brainwash people into their cause
The intentional discrimination against people on the basis of race or gender is already illegal. DEI is intentional discrimination, just with a marketing campaign behind it.
I believe an unfortunate truth of the human condition is that we will always find a difference between us to create a competition between the 2 perceived groups. Humans are not inherently peaceful. We have trained ourselves to be kinder. I believe Steven Pinker has a good amount to say about my last statement.
Everytime I hear the words DEI policy it gets my hackles up and produces (non physical) aggression. I interpret anyone supporting it to mean that they think non-white, non-male, non-straIght are more important than me based upon immutable characteristics. I.e. it's essentially a confession of bigotry againat myself and any other people who share my characteristics. I brook no sophistry on this subject. Full stop. What makes it worse of course is that I'm from the UK and we insigenous types are being abused in full by this. Its part of the real underlying reason for why we're having some mostly peaceful protests.
Racial groups can always be seen as having different standings in society because as a group they will always make different choices and set different priorities, for different reasons, which all vary over time. Race, standing, priorities, and choices are fluid. Because they are fluid, trying to impose equity across groups is too ridged and will always fail. Usually the fail will be catastrophic.
I'd argue that race/ethnicity is the one aspect that is not fluid, but it's also the aspect that doesn't actually detract from opportunities in society. Any of the structural problems that are attributed to groups of specific ethnicities, are really just cultural problems maintained by segregated communities. Imposing equity on the basis of race is just completely missing the mark, as the actual problems that need fixing aren't being addressed, while the race as a whole is getting labeled as victims despite the majority being able to succeed in society entirely on their own merit.
@@JSym92 Actually race is fluid, because biology speaking we are still only one race. Colour, heights,weights,hair types ,eye colour are just a function of drift,mating practice, streaming , environmental conditions. But they are not enough of a difference to make any sub species' yet. The problem is the obsession over near ancestry over nationhood. I am brown skinned but very English in culture and behaviour. I have more in common with an English man than an African,Asian or brown skinned American etc. different cultures. Culture will supersede ancestry.
@@paulsnow it's never used to be racial..lol it was always the elite against the poor. Which is why in the 1600s and 1700s Asian and African princes studied in England. Apperently being rich and blue blooded trumps colour.
@@JSym92 Race IS fluid in many ways. 1) over time as different people choose different partners. My grand children don't look like me. 2) Definition and perception of race can shift dramatically. 3) Race can shift with one's own representation; with more mixed race people, the same people can choose different representations for themselves.
If they are quota based they should be changed . If their goal is to support unfairly underrepresented groups in reaching equal representation they still have a value and a function and should be retooled not abolished, I think
Addressing the problem at college is to late, regardless of race, religion, wealth once a person is going to college many of their fundamental values and skills are locked in and changing at this point is more of an up hill battle. I think sports is a good example. Regardless of the race, religion and wealth the value athletic ability is promoted and supported for a large percent of kids. How do we get this type of promotion and support for kids learning their fundamentals regardless of race, religion and wealth in the younger years. I don't believe throwing $$$ at k-12 is the answer. It needs to be a cultural shifting solution. There are subcultures in America that do place a lot of value on education in their younger years and it shows in their adult statistics across races, religions and wealth.
I was extremely liberal in college. My views are considered liberal but my appearance has told people I am Hitler youth. If the money was not in athletics then way less people would strive for it. I became an engineer because my parents looked up “math careers with highest paying jobs” in 7th grade after I did well on the math portion of the PSAT.
Wow this makes me scared for our future. The education system must be so terrible.. the most arrogant kids were by far the dumbest too lol. He says "in a *purely* meritocratic society..." and the girl immediately claims "there would be disparities because of racism." 🤦♂️🤦♂️. Like she was programmed to say that. Oh wait she probably was. 🤣
Peter, I’ve heard you talk about social justice lower case and woke Social Justice uppercase. Do you think that a term is needed to specify social justice that is not woke? Non- authoritarian social justice? Trust building social justice? Maybe woke SJ is better described as antisocial justice.
Are YOU racist? 🤔 I would appreciate if you would be PERFECTLY honest when responding to my question: if you were walking down a street in the middle of the night, and a group of Negro men were approaching on your side of the street, while a group of Japanese guys were approaching you on the other side of the street, would you cross the road?😬 Obviously, I’m assuming that you didn’t know anything about the individuals in question - ONLY their respective race.🤓
Only by accident. The gnostic impulse is that the material universe is evil and every distinction that separates us must be eliminated. Physical differences, sexual differences, racial differences are all bad, evolution is bad and all will eventually be merged together and we will have one thought
i am a afro-latina woman who attends a majority white school, i have experienced racism on a individual level amugst my peers which i reported to a school counselor and their question to me was whether i thought the students viewed me as a "angry black woman", i submitted a title 9 complaint with the school for these comments. they referred me to the DEI representative (who happens to be a woman of color from my home state), she met with me for hours and was explaining to me how to white wash my identity (including not talking and not expressing firsthand views) so i would be able to fit in and survive until graduation. mind you im in a masters level social work program! my stance is abolish DEI, you're not serving anything 💯
@@Jackllewellynn this is about the HYPOCRISY of educational enviornments which promotes "inclusive" programing such as DEI in response to the potential conflicts of adversity in the classroom and school. my race is tied to culture so it has everything to do with being racist when you're being told to hold back your freedom of speech- in social work program where we talk about our feelings and views on the current state of the world. I honestly believe they promote DEI so heavily because it includes the lgbtq protections - which my school has a large presence of students that are but a very slim presence of actual cultural diversity. it feels like they prioritize one's feelings over the others. I can go further into examples. PS I have always had a job since I was 16, im 25. the last 3 jobs i've held have been for 2 years each and I left on my own accord. So don't tell me I don't know how to act - that's racist 💯.
@@ilykat9 ok u need to put the kool aid down and relax a moment. Telling someone to keep their mouth shut at work is not racist. Holding 3 jobs for 2 years a piece is not a good work history either lol
why is it that biological sex, which is actually biologically defined yet we are conditioned to recognize it based on secondary characteristics, was challenged first; when challenging the idea of race, which actually is based on secondary characteristics with no absolute biologically defined characteristics, would actually have been progress towards unity? is it because people might have been open to the scientific reality that there is only one human race, or species, which is homosapien, which consists of a myriad of continuously developing genotypes and that someone who looks different is not a different race but just a human being that looks different; if they had not first been conditioned that challenging their own established sociopolitical narrative is wrong, dangerous, and divisive?
Peter. I was an atheist at one time. You have to look into the new data. Thoroughly convinced it recorded some type of intense burst of radiation event.
These conversations should take place in every college, every semester. Instead, students are encouraged to cling to their beliefs and to see non-believers are enemies to be silenced and destroyed. How did this happen?
Yes. From any angle it doesn't make sense not to, unless the point is to "un-person" them. Understanding why someone thinks like thy do is surely the best way to "defeat them", if you're that way inclined. Maybe it's a fear of contagion.
Probably a better question would be how did this happen again? People becoming beyond the pale crops up quite frequently in our history. The printing press and telegraph were huge, but the effects of the avalanche of 24/7 information we have now we'll have to leave to future historians.
You can't believe what you see on social media. Social media just creates a message to get you mad. Reality is different.
Except he needs to speak his mind more. This was like an echo chamber of terrible illogical ideas and you can tell he knew it was all ridiculous but didn't ever correct them. They probably walked away thinking they're brilliant 😂.
Divided people are easier to rule. The establishment and the billionairs know that their party and parasite behaviour ends when normal people find common ground and have a look at what really should be improved in the world.
@@Wombattery_1000 Do you understand what epistemology is? He is not trying to teach them what to think, he is trying to help them understand how to think critically.
How awesome would it be if instead of a typical debate Trump and Harris had to play street epistemology about policy!?
President Trump already has a SUCCESSFUL record of running the nation. His policies work for Americans and hers don't. Our bank accounts, the price of groceries, and the border prove that.
You assume that either of them have any divergent interests. They are both working for the same team. You are advocating for more of their absurd theater.
@@r0xjo0 You assume they do have the same interests. Let's say the they do. What's evident is the processes. In which the people are affected.
The last 4 years of policy results are clear. It's unsustainable.
History shows that the further a society drifts from a merit-based system, the closer it moves toward self-destruction.
We can look at Africa 300 years ago - slavers
Certain races developed nothing, beg for everything.
Hint: Michael Brown and 50% of gay black men have what in common with Colin Kappernig?
Answer: Bottoms
100%
Woah woah, some people want to be slaves because they do not have an interest at all in "figuring it out." Look at all the street people who get free stuff for nothing. Are you saying they wouldn't prefer to live on the farm with access to all the nice things like free food and a roof and conjugal visits? That's literally the oil sands.
@@jackiechilds8047we could look at Africa now for slavers!! We call them sex traffickers now, but it's still slavery.
I'll tell you what, the parents of these young adults are not wasting their money. It was so refreshing to hear such clear, concise arguments. Well done, everyone!
really? they believe in unconscious bias lmao. like that's blatant propaganda
It’s bonkers how we went from “judge people by the content of their character, not their race” to “race tells you everything you need to know about a person and it’s racist to not think that way” in less than a decade. It’s like everything we learned from the 60s-70s has been intentionally educated out of the young people.
It puzzles me too. It's almost like the attitude is now "someone's got to suffer, so two wrongs make a right".
The first time I heard the term Critical Race Theory, a couple of thoughts ran through my head.
Firstly, it sounded a bit like a late 19th early 20th C Eurocentric idea putting the "races" in order of superiority and I was surprised I hadn't heard of it.
It didn't sound quite right though, so I thought maybe it was a new idea, with the results the opposite way round to my imagined one!
To be fair, a brief search of it led me to agree with the two main points made, but it's been terribly implemented and the point about races being a made up concept is now ignored. It's now a term to mean everything again, from nationality to culture, to anything you like.
@@jimb9063 CRT absolutely loops back to that idea that was popular in the early twentieth century. It treats the idea of race as though the word race means species. Personally I think the idea of race is a ludicrous proposition...
@@jswets5007 At least we know what a nuclear weapon is.
Race, Religion, and Nationality remain far more dangerous IMO because they can be anything you like.
@@jimb9063 Only because people are refusing to accept the long held and completely rational definitions of those and other words. Civilization requires social cooperation and the observation of logical good faith actions. Semantics is the science of the meaning of words, and science is considered to be colonialism... It is a sad state of affairs. 😂
Oh don't kid urself. This stuffs been around the radical fringes since the 50s. I went to school at a pretty far left place in the early 80s, and it was all the rage. Think SFState and Berkeley, Crenshaw at UCLA, D Bell at Harvard, etc. Angela Davis was preaching this poison and given a megaphone to do so. P Friere and H Giroux been around Education for a long time, to say nothing of Foucault, Adorno, Marcuse, et al; Che, Castro, Ho Chi Minh, Mao before them. IOW, the 'long march' has been marching along for some time. But it was mainly in the academic fringe in The West. It picked up steam in the 90s with '3rd wave feminism', Judith Butler, radfems, and the like...until it rolled us over in the 00s and 2010s. It ALWAYS been cool to be a 'radical revolutionary'...even necessary.
But once the revolutionary gets power, then the parasitism takes hold. Troubling.
I just want to say how refreshing it is to hear clear articulation without hearing "like, like, like, like, ya know?"
The woke guy was rather eloquent for a leftist,and surprisingly willing to talk,pretty good stuff
You keep using that word, it's going to sound as useless as "racist". Come on man. They're HS kids.
He probably just wanted to be in opposition of whatever the majority agrees with. These are debate kids, they argue for sports.
Do you think those on the right are known for their eloquence? Their lord and savior is not exactly a shining example of eloquence.
@@allrequiredfieldsHow so? Because it sounds like you are judging the actions of the past by the standards of today. And that is a fools errand because the people of the future could then call you a barbarian because there is more slavery today than there was back then.
👋 Excellent series of discussions
These high schoolers are so much smarter than so many college students and their staff
College brainwashes and dumbs them down.
Such refreshing to see people disagreeing without being a complete asshole.
We might not be seeing this in the coming years, so thank you for allowing discourse to happen.
These four guys really shocked me!
I Follow Peter since the Grievance Studies first blowup, it feels SO GOOD to see young people being open to hard conversations!!
Let there be hope!
I think one of the things that doesn't get discussed as often as it should is the cultural element to disparities. We often credit cultures for their strengths, like the concept of "German engineering" or "French cuisine," but blame perceptions of weakness on racism. My dad pointed out years ago that when Jews came to America, part of the reason they were hated by many Americans was because they achieved success in disproportionately large numbers. His observation was that the Jewish culture they brought with them held education in much higher esteem than most other cultures in the early 20th century, with most Jewish children learning to read and study by their early teens. They were starting from a much higher level of literacy than almost every other group of immigrants and THAT gave them a tremendous advantage. When I observe members of different Hispanic cultures where I live, I can see certain cultural values that work against them achieving success in our society - such as how motherhood is revered which I think influences many young Hispanic girls to value that more highly than education and which ultimately works against them finding academic success, or that the young men seem to value getting a job more than they value getting an education and a higher paying job. So, insofar as these observations are accurate, the "systemic" issues holding them back can be traced to their own cultural values not being in alignment with what is needed for "success" in their current environment and not a systemic racism in our society at large. Most humans are really attached to their cultural heritage and struggle to let it go, even if it's damaging their chances for success. Living in a multicultural society can focus a lot of attention on those traits that don't work for us, regardless of what ethnic or racial background we come from.
Motherhood is revered in Jewish culture also. It has not diminished ability to succeed. In fact, it is a benefit.
@@tonyhoffman3309 True, but I think culturally, motherhood for Jewish women isn't a right of passage into adulthood like it appears to be in many Hispanic cultures. It seems really obvious to me when I see young Hispanic girls with babies in local stores that they have reached a cultural milestone because of the baby.
This observation aligns with reality. Our immediate environment has a greater impact on our approach to life than whatever external impediments stand in our way. Cultural values such as higher education, rel!gi0n, industry, m0ral!ty, mərriage, and family can be great tools to offset whatever effect that the actions of any "0ppress0r" may have. Life at its core i's all about choices and perspectives.
It's just very convenient to blame one's inadequacies on certain factors and entities than to look within.
Great points all.
Every presidential debate should be held just like this.
and have two of these kids in them for baseline.
I just found these Spectrum videos earlier today and have been watching them ever since. Such an excellent method of facilitating discussions. Thanks for doing these
I like the nerd w the glasses. He wears his style well, and he has a brain. And actually trys to play the game and steelman his opposition.
The other kids will get there fosho:)
W seeing you at lectures getting SOME CRITICAL THINKING into the kids. Doing the Lords work. Ty for sharing these
This is a brilliant way to have folks engage with things man. It gives everyone their voice as well as makes each voice be listened to. The beauty is in the simplicity.👍👍
Different cultures exist and they are not at all equal or compatible.
What like the Vikings in England? Yeah your right
But modern America is a mash of different completely looking peoples .Yet you have a core culture across colours or backgrounds.
Like here in English all people born here share a culture from core morals,schooling,tastes, language,. Even if their parents were from elsewhere.
I mean Christian ,moral,educated Brits.
@@mern2974 A "core culture across colours or backgrounds" is the ideal, but is being lost. Instead of a melting pot, it is becoming a salad, where the ingredients may be in the same bowl but they stay separate.
@@kevin-g1w that's crap. It won't work long term. In Britain we had a more coherent culture..until american culture started to take over. Even the way people speak is in Americanisms...
Unfortunately it's made me dislike the U.S.
That's the point of DEI. If all cultures were equal then there would be no point in the effort of including other ones. Just like if all beliefs were equal there would be no point in street epistemology.
@@guidestone1392 DIE ...the way it's implemented will never work. It's forced. People were starting to integrate normally. But now it's quota based.
SE is amazing, I hope the format is taken up across the globe in all levels of education and between friends and family.
Great kids, great ideas. Good job Peter and team. :)
we need more of these debates and conversations across america. It allows people to think and speak in homogenous environment
This is remarkable. I sincerely love and appreciate your work, Peter.
This was great.
I loved how many of these young people were able to listen and move their positions so easily. Should remind us all to listen and not just argue our point.
I like what one of the panel said about needing to see the difference between affirmative action and DEI. Also, one person brought up capitalism which was odd to me. If you're running a company then you want the best possible people working for you. It doesn't matter what their race is; it matters what they're going to bring to your company. Also, spot on in saying that DEI is racist because it believes that a certain group of people need help because they don't have what it takes to get there on their own without someone stepping in to give it to them.
Really really good debate format. Just subscribed. Do more debates like this please.
This is the way to teach children how to think critically. The last time I performed a quadratic equation was tenth grade, yet I've employed the empirical tools of logic and reason every single day of my life since.
Thank you for doing this Mr. Boghossian
The intro nailed it. I've been saying this for years.
These kids are significantly more articulate than I am, and likely much more intelligent. It was great to hear them talk this out.
Wow! These kids are actually thinking! This gives me hope. The college kids now will end up stuck between older generations who think critically, and younger generations who do also. They'll be surrounded on both sides.
What I’ve learned is how important having differences of opinion is and having that from a lot of different people. We are all born in our own unique environment and spend our time into certain topics that other may have spent more or less time and also come from different perspectives that you may have not considered. This will help ground your perspective in a better reality for all.
Brilliant as usual Peter! Strong work giving us a glimmer of hope!
The tall kid reminds me of Quentin Tarrantino. He not only looks a bit like him, but talks a bit like him. Smart kids.
These kids are so inspiring.
The Central Limit Theorem is a fundamental concept in statistics, but it does not relate to or address racial disparities directly. Racial disparities are complex social issues that require different approaches and analyses beyond the scope of the CLT.
This was amazing. So happy to see all that critical thinking
Hard to listen to but huge respect to these guys for getting up on a stage and playing the game for us on TH-cam.
I'm sure they'll watch this back and learn a lot about how to talk slowly and clearly which will be of huge benefit to them, regardless of belief.
Interestingly, despite completely disagreeing with him strongly, maroon wobbly legs chap was top of class for me in articulation, followed closely by the black skirt lass.
Superb episode
This is impressive.
LOVE forcing them to steel man their opposition. Shows that these kids can understand their own flaws
Super impressed with how this debate is conducted and the ability of the participants at debating.
I know this is a different format but has anyone else seen the rapid talking / “gulp breathing” at high school debates where it is more important to says as many arguments as possible, for points, as opposed to explaining things or convincing others. What is with that?
People who argue in favor of description only do so because it benefits them, but if that same logic is applied against them... They will quickly change their minds. It's all about incentives. The best solution is not to give a biased incentive, either for or against one side, but to let them compete in a game without a biased judge. The disparities that occur will be for other reasons, not because the evaluation system is being unfair to one side.
Up until this video I was firmly in the camp that Systemic Racism doesn't exist in current America, but this video made me reconsider and now I can say with confidence.....yes there is and the people on stage are propagating it.
DEI in practice favors on race/immutable characteristic over another. That is the very definition of racism. DEI is in schools, businesses, and government. We therefore have systemic racism in America.
This is amazing. This should be part of standard education curriculum. A hundred times, yes!
Broski said equal population demographics will even out the scales of meritocracy. I think nepotism is the central tenet to racial disparity.
Well done!
A truly meritocratic society would yield inequality because not everyone can be at the top. Inequality is the way of the world. Life is not fair. Find a good person to love, work and appreciate your time on this planet, and hand it off to the ones you leave behind.
18:12 German young man said he would agree more with abolishing DEI if he had more proof that America is a true meritocracy, but he is supporting DEI which is not merit-based at all, how ironic...
Seems he believes that systemic discrimination is the reason for minorities not to be given opportunities despite equal competency. He thinks D. I. E can elevate them to even that out. Vs the belief others have, that it should or does elevate people with lower ability into a group of people with higher ability.
This is great to see and hear.
Brilliant children finally
Brilliant, thank you Peter!
Faith in the youngsters (some of them, at least) restored.
Gives me hope for future generations.
Equity reduces the opportunity for excellence.
Diversity reduces the ability to select for excellence.
Inclusion excludes and divides people by classifying them by physical and behavioural traits unrelated to ability..
Since CRT, racial identity politics and DEI have been introduced has racial tension reduced or grown?
This is amazing!
This was great!
This is more of a debate setting, not the usual street epistemological vibe. Which is fine. I guess it works in this way also.
Peter clearly used the HS debate program and an audience of fellow high schoolers as a means of showcasing the benefits of his program to pre-college age teens. This is a good thing. Street epistemology would yield a very different result with high school age thinkers and of course Peter wouldn't be able to capture HS debaters out on the streets. Coordinating with HS debate instructors gives Peter a means of accessing this particular age and level of thinkers and speakers. High level performing HS debaters are, quite obviously, much more apt to go deep on various issues than non-debaters. They are trained to do so and they love it which is why they take debate for multiple years and get so good at it. These kids were/are obviously very experienced in advocacy and argumentation. The results are obvious and I am sure will have a lasting impact on not only the debaters (who are impassioned of the subject area) but also their peers in the crowd. Nice work, Peter! And nice work high school admin. for making this happen. So very important.
Peter asked if a purely meritocratic society will produce desparities not racial specifically. I believe it would, the point of DEI is to try to fix that, in a very unnatural and injust way, that ends up being more harmful than helpful for the people they're trying to help
Any centralized apparatus that attempts to spread equity, (Equality of outcome), has always collapsed under its own weight and devolved into a morally bankrupt surveillance state that seizes the means of production.
Not american but i still consider it nuts how americans still equate "culture=race".
Believe me... if you go abroad, we will KNOW you're american whether you're black, white or green.
Class, nepotism and the family dynasties are the leading causes of most disparities, not race.
In the UK, we have to refer to Equity as Equality, as it's illegal to discriminate based on Protected Characteristics. The mere fact we have to do that tells you the entire thing is as bent as a nine-bob note. Of course not a single person working in DEI, of which we have double the positions as compared to other countries, will volunteer that a conflict exists. They simply use the same US literature and sneak it in under the radar. My company is a major bank and, amongst many other CRJ insertions, actually has this statement in the mandatory training this year 'equity is needed to get us to the same starting place so that equality of outcome can be achieved' How maliciously dishonest can you get with the live of several thousand employees?
The new intro is sweet
bravo!!!!!!!
Not only is the world a better place because of racial disparities, one cannot eliminate racial disparities.
DEI is defined for me as a society of "mediocrity". We want the best people to do so many jobs, not a diversity hire who does not know right from left, or up from down. That kind of appointment will be the downfall in just a little way of that company or that system. Imagine if that is all you had to choose from!!! You want people to compete for jobs on a similar level. A high level. Encourage them to do and be their very best. No settling for the middle or just get by. That is how you get the most experienced and qualified. Peel a potato to perfection. Do not compromise.
The false middle fallacy needs to be challenged more. Just because two groups have different outcomes does not mean unfair discrimination has occurred or it is the effect of an injustice.
Even if the central limit theorem was applicable, as long as there's a spread to the distribution (i.e. nonzero variance) there'll be inequality. The main assumption of the CLT is that every individual behaves identically and independently.
so cool!
The kid got in on DEI for sure.
DEI isn't about race. It's about money. The real issue it to examine DEI departments themselves, what exactly they do and how they get established. It's a familiar problem in many service industries: Consultants are brought in for a specific reason, but they decide they like the landscape, benefits and pay, and then create permanent jobs for themselves with the collaboration of Administration (as HR and DEI are part of Administration). Then they use their power to justify their positions by creating or exaggerating issues and ultimately divert more resources to themselves and away from teachers and students. DEI does not solve racial inequality. All we need to know to support this is that minority enrollment in higher education has never been lower.
I would argue that it's not fundamentally about money either. It's fundamentally about power.
I'd argue its about ego, almost 100%.
Maybe all three?
It's about antiwhiteism and anti-Christianity. The same thing happens in Europe, Canada and Australia.
I feel like a completely meritocratic system would still result in different outcomes in different groups (whatever group one might want to look at) as people make different choices.
It's not entirely random, as there are some bodily differences between ethnicities, like average height for example.
Strongly agree
Blaming "capitalism" for anything makes immediately obvious how little thought has been invested.
At this point it's just a cut out for "I don't actually know", like the women who blame patriarchy for everything.
It's worse though, because when people blame capitalism for problems, they're usually problems which exist universally even within socialism and communism.
7:00 thats not true Black income in America prior to 1960s was much better than it is currently
That guy royally botched the central limit theorem (a theorem on convergence of statistical distributions) so badly that I don't even know where to begin?!
He's a kid under the gun in a debate-- let's give him a little bit of a break and be happy he could articulate his points and steelman his own positions.
10:50 That is not the Central Limit Theorem. The central limit theorem has to do with averages of random samples of a population being normally distributed, which has nothing to do with the population being normally distributed. It’s one of the most surprising finds for me in statistics, because it implies that the population distribution can be ANY SHAPE and you’ll still get the normal (Gaussian) distribution of averages.
They shouldn’t have allowed the conversation on DEI to revolve around race but rather focus on the Diversity, Equity, & Inclusion, how it may manifest in different scenarios depending on organization needs, etc.
But it doesnt. It only manifests around race and sexual orientation which is why its so toxic. Western woke leftists just take words that sound good but then completely twist them to mean radically different, often opposite to what the words actually mean, all in an effort to brainwash people into their cause
There may yet be hope for the future.
The intentional discrimination against people on the basis of race or gender is already illegal.
DEI is intentional discrimination, just with a marketing campaign behind it.
I believe an unfortunate truth of the human condition is that we will always find a difference between us to create a competition between the 2 perceived groups. Humans are not inherently peaceful. We have trained ourselves to be kinder. I believe Steven Pinker has a good amount to say about my last statement.
If there were no racial disparities we would judge people over eye color or hair color
Everytime I hear the words DEI policy it gets my hackles up and produces (non physical) aggression. I interpret anyone supporting it to mean that they think non-white, non-male, non-straIght are more important than me based upon immutable characteristics. I.e. it's essentially a confession of bigotry againat myself and any other people who share my characteristics.
I brook no sophistry on this subject. Full stop.
What makes it worse of course is that I'm from the UK and we insigenous types are being abused in full by this. Its part of the real underlying reason for why we're having some mostly peaceful protests.
Racial groups can always be seen as having different standings in society because as a group they will always make different choices and set different priorities, for different reasons, which all vary over time. Race, standing, priorities, and choices are fluid.
Because they are fluid, trying to impose equity across groups is too ridged and will always fail. Usually the fail will be catastrophic.
Race isn't really real..lol it's a joke of sun exposure and random drift,mating practice and sociology lol.
One big dysfunctional species.
I'd argue that race/ethnicity is the one aspect that is not fluid, but it's also the aspect that doesn't actually detract from opportunities in society. Any of the structural problems that are attributed to groups of specific ethnicities, are really just cultural problems maintained by segregated communities. Imposing equity on the basis of race is just completely missing the mark, as the actual problems that need fixing aren't being addressed, while the race as a whole is getting labeled as victims despite the majority being able to succeed in society entirely on their own merit.
@@JSym92 Actually race is fluid, because biology speaking we are still only one race. Colour, heights,weights,hair types ,eye colour are just a function of drift,mating practice, streaming , environmental conditions. But they are not enough of a difference to make any sub species' yet.
The problem is the obsession over near ancestry over nationhood.
I am brown skinned but very English in culture and behaviour. I have more in common with an English man than an African,Asian or brown skinned American etc. different cultures. Culture will supersede ancestry.
@@paulsnow it's never used to be racial..lol it was always the elite against the poor.
Which is why in the 1600s and 1700s Asian and African princes studied in England. Apperently being rich and blue blooded trumps colour.
@@JSym92 Race IS fluid in many ways.
1) over time as different people choose different partners. My grand children don't look like me.
2) Definition and perception of race can shift dramatically.
3) Race can shift with one's own representation; with more mixed race people, the same people can choose different representations for themselves.
I agree
How people feel, and we have data mine absolutely everyone
Intentions are good, is an appeal that is a course to horror.
All sides have good intentions, all sides aren’t correct.
Freedom is always the right answer. Period. Full stop.
So freedom to murder and rape?
If they are quota based they should be changed . If their goal is to support unfairly underrepresented groups in reaching equal representation they still have a value and a function and should be retooled not abolished, I think
disparity means responsibility
There's hope still. These young people have their heads screwed on properly...
Addressing the problem at college is to late, regardless of race, religion, wealth once a person is going to college many of their fundamental values and skills are locked in and changing at this point is more of an up hill battle. I think sports is a good example. Regardless of the race, religion and wealth the value athletic ability is promoted and supported for a large percent of kids. How do we get this type of promotion and support for kids learning their fundamentals regardless of race, religion and wealth in the younger years. I don't believe throwing $$$ at k-12 is the answer. It needs to be a cultural shifting solution. There are subcultures in America that do place a lot of value on education in their younger years and it shows in their adult statistics across races, religions and wealth.
I was extremely liberal in college. My views are considered liberal but my appearance has told people I am Hitler youth.
If the money was not in athletics then way less people would strive for it. I became an engineer because my parents looked up “math careers with highest paying jobs” in 7th grade after I did well on the math portion of the PSAT.
Wait they cut the systematic racist question at 12:50 I wonder why
Probably because Peter is a dishonest bigot.
Wow this makes me scared for our future. The education system must be so terrible.. the most arrogant kids were by far the dumbest too lol. He says "in a *purely* meritocratic society..." and the girl immediately claims "there would be disparities because of racism." 🤦♂️🤦♂️. Like she was programmed to say that. Oh wait she probably was. 🤣
He said disparities not racial disparities.
It’s weird they all interpreted the question that way and Peter didn’t really challenge… kinda frustrating bc that was an interesting question
Peter, I’ve heard you talk about social justice lower case and woke Social Justice uppercase. Do you think that a term is needed to specify social justice that is not woke? Non- authoritarian social justice? Trust building social justice? Maybe woke SJ is better described as antisocial justice.
Dei is racist towards us white folks.... case closed
Are YOU racist? 🤔
I would appreciate if you would be PERFECTLY honest when responding to my question:
if you were walking down a street in the middle of the night, and a group of Negro men were approaching on your side of the street, while a group of Japanese guys were approaching you on the other side of the street, would you cross the road?😬
Obviously, I’m assuming that you didn’t know anything about the individuals in question - ONLY their respective race.🤓
Towards everyone. Have you never heard the phrase "the soft bigotry of low expectations"?
That’s why it was invented.
Only by accident. The gnostic impulse is that the material universe is evil and every distinction that separates us must be eliminated. Physical differences, sexual differences, racial differences are all bad, evolution is bad and all will eventually be merged together and we will have one thought
why is disagreeing wrongthink?
i am a afro-latina woman who attends a majority white school, i have experienced racism on a individual level amugst my peers which i reported to a school counselor and their question to me was whether i thought the students viewed me as a "angry black woman", i submitted a title 9 complaint with the school for these comments. they referred me to the DEI representative (who happens to be a woman of color from my home state), she met with me for hours and was explaining to me how to white wash my identity (including not talking and not expressing firsthand views) so i would be able to fit in and survive until graduation. mind you im in a masters level social work program! my stance is abolish DEI, you're not serving anything 💯
Also most of this stuff hasn’t got anything to do with race. People who r outspoken and don’t fall into line don’t last very long in the workplace.
@@Jackllewellynn this is about the HYPOCRISY of educational enviornments which promotes "inclusive" programing such as DEI in response to the potential conflicts of adversity in the classroom and school. my race is tied to culture so it has everything to do with being racist when you're being told to hold back your freedom of speech- in social work program where we talk about our feelings and views on the current state of the world.
I honestly believe they promote DEI so heavily because it includes the lgbtq protections - which my school has a large presence of students that are but a very slim presence of actual cultural diversity. it feels like they prioritize one's feelings over the others. I can go further into examples.
PS I have always had a job since I was 16, im 25. the last 3 jobs i've held have been for 2 years each and I left on my own accord. So don't tell me I don't know how to act - that's racist 💯.
@@ilykat9 ok u need to put the kool aid down and relax a moment. Telling someone to keep their mouth shut at work is not racist. Holding 3 jobs for 2 years a piece is not a good work history either lol
@@Jackllewellynn did you miss the point - im not talking about work. this is about school censorship.
@@Jackllewellynn kool aid reference = racism 🤭
Smart kids.
why is it that biological sex, which is actually biologically defined yet we are conditioned to recognize it based on secondary characteristics, was challenged first; when challenging the idea of race, which actually is based on secondary characteristics with no absolute biologically defined characteristics, would actually have been progress towards unity?
is it because people might have been open to the scientific reality that there is only one human race, or species, which is homosapien, which consists of a myriad of continuously developing genotypes and that someone who looks different is not a different race but just a human being that looks different; if they had not first been conditioned that challenging their own established sociopolitical narrative is wrong, dangerous, and divisive?
Saying an organisation is systemucally eacist starts with the pewmiss that race and not culture is a relevant factor.
Peter. I was an atheist at one time. You have to look into the new data. Thoroughly convinced it recorded some type of intense burst of radiation event.