Would We Be Better Off Without Religion? - Christopher Hitchens [2007] ✝️ | Intelligence Squared
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.พ. 2023
- In this full session from our archive, Christopher Hitchens and professor Richard Dawkins came to Intelligence Squared in 2007 alongside a panel of other guests to debate if we would be better off without religion.
For the motion sits Christopher Hitchens, professor Richard Dawkins and A. C. Grayling. Whilst opposing the motion sits Nigel Spivey, rabbi Julie Neuberger and Roger Scruton.
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Genesis 3
Lexham English Bible
The Fall
3 Now the serpent was more crafty than any other wild animal[a] which Yahweh God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God indeed say, ‘You shall not eat from any tree in the garden’?” 2 The woman said to the serpent, “From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat, 3 but from the tree that is in the midst of the garden, God said, ‘You shall not eat from it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die’.” 4 But the serpent said to the woman, “You shall not surely die. 5 For God knows that on the day you both eat from it, then your eyes will be opened and you both shall be like gods,[b] knowing good and evil.” 6 When[c] the woman saw that the tree was good for food and that it was a delight to the eyes, and the tree was desirable to make one wise, then[d] she took from its fruit and she ate. And she gave it also to her husband with her, and he ate. 7 Then[e] the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed together fig leaves and they made for themselves coverings.
8 Then[f] they heard the sound of Yahweh God walking in the garden at the windy time of day.[g] And the man[h] and his wife hid themselves from the presence of Yahweh God among the trees of the garden. 9 And Yahweh God called to the man[i] and said to him, “Where are you?” 10 And he replied,[j] “I heard the sound of you in the garden, and I was afraid because I am naked, so I hid myself.” 11 Then he[k] asked,[l] “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree from which I forbade you to eat?”[m] 12 And the man[n] replied,[o] “The woman whom you gave to be with me-she gave to me from the tree and I ate.” 13 Then[p] Yahweh God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?” And the woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.” 14 Then[q] Yahweh God said to the serpent,
“Because you have done this,
you will be cursed
more than any domesticated animal
and more than any wild animal.[r]
On your belly you shall go
and dust you shall eat
all the days of your life.
15 And I will put hostility
between you and between the woman,
and between your offspring[s] and between her offspring;[t]
he will strike you on the head,
and you will strike him on the heel.”
16 To the woman he said,
“I will greatly increase
your pain in childbearing;[u]
in pain you shall bear children.
And to your husband shall be your desire.
And he shall rule over you.”
17 And to Adam[v] he said, “Because you listened to the voice of your wife and you ate from the tree from which I forbade you to eat,[w]
the ground shall be cursed on your account.
In pain you shall eat from it
all the days of your life.
18 And thorns and thistles shall sprout for you,
and you shall eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow[x]
you shall eat bread,
until your return to the ground.
For from it you were taken;
for you are dust,
and to dust you shall return.”
20 And the man[y] named[z] his wife Eve, because she was the mother of all life. 21 And Yahweh God made for Adam[aa] and for his wife garments of skin, and he clothed them.
22 And Yahweh God said, “Look-the man has become as one of us, to know good and evil. What if[ab] he stretches out his hand and takes also from the tree of life and eats, and lives forever?” 23 And Yahweh God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which he was taken. 24 So[ac] he drove the man out, and placed cherubim east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming, turning sword[ad] to guard the way to the tree of life.
The Peace Meditation Phrase
Old Lyran written as: Salome gam nan ben Urda - gan njber asala Hesporona!
pronounced as: Saalome gam naan ben uurda gan njjber asaala hesporoona!
Français : Que la paix soit sur la terre et parmi toutes les créatures !
En español: ¡Paz en la tierra y entre todas las criaturas!
Portuguese: Que a paz esteja na terra, e entre todas as criaturas!
English: Peace be on the Earth, and among all created creations!
Deutsch: Friede sei auf der Erde, und unter allen Geschöpfen!
Romanian: Pacea să fie pe pământ, și printre toate creaturile!
Italian: La pace sia sulla terra e tra tutte le creature!
Croatian: Mir na zemlji i među svim stvorenjima!
Czech: Mír na zemi a mezi všemi tvory!
Indonesian: Damai sejahtera di bumi, dan di antara semua makhluk!
Arabic: السلام على الارض وبين جميع المخلوقات!
Persian: سلامتی بر زمین و بر جمیع حیوانات باد!
Polish: Pokój niech będzie na ziemi i między wszystkimi stworzeniami.
Danish: Fred være på jorden og blandt alle skabninger!
Finnish: Rauha on maan päällä, ja kaikkien olentojen joukossa!
Swedish: Frid vare på jorden, och bland alla varelser!
Ukrainian: Мир на землі та між усіма створіннями!
Russian: Да будет мир на земле и между всеми существами!
Chinese: 愿和平降临于地上，万物之中也。
Vietnamese: Nguyện sự bình an giáng trên đất, Và giữa các loài vật!
Japanese: 地上に、そしてすべての生き物の間に平和があるように!
This is propaganda under proper debate with opposing views this collapses.
Consider a monument( or hovel or the Eiffel Tower) and ask if anyone knows the designer, creator, builder. You may prove God as true, powerful, loving when asking if you or that structure is more complex.
😊
Now I am an old man I now realise how fast our time on earth goes by . I wish I could explain that to the young ones so they could use their time well , being nice , helping others best they can , understand that time is a wonderful thing to be used wisely. To care for everyone, not just other humans but animals etc as well . Don't waste what time you have on religion just live as wisely as you can . It costs nothing to be kind , you will have a much more fulfilling life living that way I promise.
Who taught you these righteous ethical principles?
@@delprice3007 no one .
@@delprice3007
One of the best things about learning from your human experiences is understanding not to judge and condemn the harmless actions of others. To be nice because you’d like others to be nice to you.
If you learn your understandings of behaviour from religion you’ll likely judge and condemn homosexuals, women, non-theists of your creed etc etc. Bigoted, horrendous behaviours that harm others in the name of your chosen sect.
There is an after life; regardless if you believe in heaven or hell...they exist.
@@newyork2021 against every known fact in the world!!!!!! , Pathetic.
“I’d rather have questions I can’t answer than answers I can’t question.“ Richard Feynman.
The Dawkins types now have plenty of answers they can't question, their side is left backing creationist equality once again.
I would rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy 😂
Poor.
@@churblefurblesYou clearly don't listen to Dawkins. He never says there definitely is no god. All he wants is evidence. Good evidence and he'll be most attentive. Prove me wrong with evidence to the contrary.
@@lowersaxon Would you like to be understood? If so, one-word responses aren't going to get you there.
I really miss Christopher Hitchens being in the world. He was truly remarkable.
Now he met his god and knew how great he is.
Nah he just died
@@guitarmx103 reincarnated. Many many children recall being someone else. There is far too much actual evidence that people actually DO have past lives... You can look it up yourself. It happens far more often than you think, often enough to be objective evidence that we're more than meat puppets.
@@RP1967_Gcould be. Dunno.
@RP1967_G God isnt real. However if he was im pretty sure he blasphemied enough to earn a spot in H-E double hockey sticks lmao
I spent a lifetime as a Mormon, and renounced it when I was in my early 40s. It wouldn’t be fair for me to say that I received nothing of value from my participation in it.
But what I didn’t fully understand until I left, is that I never needed any supernatural pretext to live a virtuous life… and not only that, my ability to be a good person was hampered by the way my religion conflated righteousness with cultural protectionism.
It encouraged more preoccupation with the way I spoke, what I drank, the way I dressed, who I associated with… than being a true friend to everybody. And those thought patterns are still difficult to cast aside… as in, it’s difficult not just to be the inverse of what I was.
I’ve heard of people who have left my faith, became self-described atheists, and who have come back to the faith. The common theme I notice in all of their stories is that they never found peace in unbelief. I get that. It’s hard to not have that anesthetizing belief to soften the edges of the harsh realities of an inherently meaningless existence, especially after having it for all of your life. That was me. I ultimately found my peace in defining my own meaning.
I live, I can feel pain and pleasure, I can love and loathe; and most of all, I’m relieved of the burden of searching for ultimate meaning. It’s such a rest. Life has become a lot more precious to me now that I am convinced that this is the only life I have. And my self loathing at the hands of an incoherent doctrine that creates a problem and offers the solution in a single package, is no longer a part of my life.
Even my marriage to a believer has become sweeter overall, though not without its difficult moments. But it’s taught us both radical acceptance… the kind that, if practiced in a widespread way, would eliminate so much unnecessary suffering in the world.
For me… I am better off in every way without religion.
Good for you. I’m guessing there’s a good in just about every religion but it’s definitely not necessary for being the best you can be. Too bad you’re missing out on the bulletproof underwear now (or am I thinking about another religion now).😊
As a mother of a handicapped daughter,religion had nothing to do with me raising and loving her. Just the opposite. I have 3 born again sisters, who proclaim to love her, but didnt offer a moments help, but didnt mind calling me up to watch their children so they could have some time off from being a parent.
Nancy that sums up the sheer hypocrisy of theists. ☹️
🤔
🤗🥱
Typical Christian. If you don't believe you have no worth. You are bound for hell.
I feel you. Two disabled kids here, now legal adults... and now I'm terminally ill.
For *decades* we plodded through life at a Children's Hospital, supported by those who were SECULAR.
But never the religious.
The ONLY time we saw religious vultures was in crisis when they would try to FORCE their way into private rooms to preen, interfere, and hiss out smug, selfish cliches.
Thankfully, we live in a secular country, where religious parasites & vultures are NOT valued about patient RIGHTS.
They were kept away from us, which, of course, "offended" their sense of entitlement.
Throughout those decades there was no HELP from religious types, only showing off.
Religious types were repeatedly selfish, arrogant, smug, saturated with privilege, stinking of arrogance, and always bragging about their supposed "superiority".
"Superiority" that was never shown, never demonstrated.
They helped none, did nothing, built only egos, and demonstrated the true nature of religion in every moment - selfishness - every moment of every day.
We saw that *NOTHING* the religious people did was done without a BRIBE.
They demanded, expected a selfish "reward" for EVERYTHING, or they did nothing.
But a non-believer has no expectation of a reward, they are simply good because they CHOOSE TO BE.
And THOUSANDS of secular types rushed to help us over, and over, and over...
Religious types wallowed in bigoted stereotypes, privilege, profound ignorance and illiteracy, and a constant stream of EXCUSES for LYING about help or support they promised.
They would offer help, then forget to do it, but still DEMAND CREDIT, as if only imaginary "help" mattered.
But then, they already worship an imaginary gawd, so they aren't capable of real world decency.
I remember when I first discovered Christopher Hitchens, I was hooked. In the next week or so, I watched and listened to every available debate. Because of these debates, I learned of Dawkins, Krauss, Harris and Fry. I am so grateful to have access to Hitchens, and I wish he were here today.
The exact same thing happened to me too. I didn't discover that he was dead before months later, and it made me really sad. Imagine the things he would have said (and the impact he would have had) on all the things that has happened these last years. It's such a loss that he was taken too soon
I love Hitchens and Fry. The rest are just ok.
Harris my fav
Thank God for Hitch, Rich and Fry. Sorry if that sounds like an English breakfast, but what harm? it was always the most delicious way of starting the day.
Same for me too
I'm a survivor of traumatic religious upbringing and I can say without a doubt....we are better off without religion!!!!!!
In a Christian society.
You are welcome
In most first world countries, there's a separation between religion and the state...
@@sach196 the religion was tolerant. It was Christianity. You can't get the same with Islam.
@@koppite9600both are known for abusing children so I’ll pass
He took God out of schools. Are we better off ot worse ?
As a Buddhist I find these videos and debates containing Hitchens amazing and would have loved to discuss not debate some of these issues with him.
There is no question that Hitchens made us deeply think and I for one miss his humor and insight greatly.
🙏
Buddhism is a great philosophy, far better than theistic religion with its blind faith and unproveable belief in a creator god.
As a Buddhist, I don't think Hitchens disagreed with just about anything you might have to say. Now, I don't know much about Buddhism, if you have a creation story or if you take an issue with any scientific principles or discoveries. But I'd imagine, based on what little I do know, i think he'd agree with much of what your philosophy prescribes. And I share in your condolences for his passing and desire to experience his wit personally.
I miss him, too.
Buddhism has even lost its way.. the corruption is rife and it’s disgusting.. I think the original idea was NOT to be an organised pseudo religion as it is now.. with gold temples and similarities to every other religion.. it’s a shame the initial thoughts of Buddhism have been lost and exploited.. of course there are SOME genuine buddhists but not many..
Richard Dawkins’s closing argument is very powerful and really resonates with me. You don’t need religion to be good or feel emotions or be kind. Kindness, emotions, and doing good is an innate part of human beings. These things are spontaneous and requires no instruction.
Also, im tired of religion claiming that you need God to do these things. Its pretty much insulting to what human beings are naturally capable of doing.
If you have good morals they came from the Bible. Somewhere in your ancestry there was a Christian. That person taught his children according to the Bible, and it was passed down until you, or someone before you ended the practice. The morals you have, like it or not, came from the Christian in your ancestry. The same is true for all/nearly all of us. You're too intelligent to believe in God, yet you're dumb enough to think you somehow had good morals from day one. You didn't need any teaching or guidance, that's how great you and Dawkins are.
We're all sinners, you included. How much worse if the Bible never existed? You would commit many more sins/crimes against others had there never been a Bible and God. Don't kid yourself, you did nothing to earn or deserve this life, and none of us are magically born wonderful, law abiding, moral individuals. Cavemen drug their woman around by the hair. Maybe we should go back to that. I prefer that to murdering pure innocence in the womb.
well said
Define "good." I know many "good" people who are surprisingly immoral beneath their surface.
It's more of an insult to think art wasn't created by an artist.
@@raygordonteacheschess5501 Do i really need to spell out what good is? Behaviours like being respectful, being kind, being courteous, not causing intentional harm towards others, and helping one another.
So what if you know "good" people who are immoral beneath? Evil is also natural part of humans, but so is doing good.
When I was a little girl I asked my father if he believed in god. He said,”no”. “But, life is so short, and the universe is so vast and we are so lucky to contemplate such things, we should be thankful for that alone”.
@ Elizabeth Wagner , read Romans 1 , Mathew 24 ,Luke 21 , the Gospel of John ---- as re.the state of the human race ---- SIN ---- read Romans 3 V.23 ,6 V.23 , ISAIAH 53 ,64 V.6 .----
@ Elizabeth Wagner , John 3 V16 ------ * read Acts 16 VS.27 ---- 32 ---- John 1 V.12 , 14 V.6 , Acts 4 V.12 --
read Harry Potter Books 1-7 you'll enjoy it much more
Omg ur father is so smart
Without fear
During this debate I kept thinking that Professor Roger Scruton was really weak, but questioned if perhaps I was just missing the point. But then when he began claiming that Hitler committed atrocities in the name of atheism it confirmed all my suspicions, the man is clueless.
Hitler was a catholic and loved hobnobbing with the cardinals and bishops😢
I've been an atheist for the past 10 years. I was Muslim prior and it didn't make sense to me for a long time but I wasn't prepared to ask questions. My family still doesn't know I left Islam. I still like many of the traditions in which I still participate but not because of religion.
Sounds like your parent didn't go a good job teaching you about Islam
Good for you, well done for taking sovereignty over your own mind. There's nothing wrong with upholding traditions even if you don't believe the foundation of them all. We all do this in the western world anyway, Christmas, easter etc.
I hope they don’t lope off your head
@@user-nb8sq9fw4y *lop
RIP you absolute legend. The world is a less eloquent place without you Mr Hitchens.
He could give a live speech as if he were reading from the most learned books in history.
@@NSOcarth exactly. The mind cannot comprehend spirituality!
He can't rest in peace because he doesn't exist anymore.
No. It's anything but.
It's a much better place without him...one less guy using words to fool and maipulate people into a one-world govt that openly states they inted to kill most of the current poplulation. pretty nasty guy.
Inside the brain of every thinking person, is the voice of Christopher Hitchens. The world is worst off without him.
👍👍👍👍👍
Worse not worst. For fuck's sake.
Right? Inside the brain of every _thinking person..._ is the voice of someone else. That makes zero sense. You're essentially saying, that "thinking people" are all drones, mindlessly nodding their empty heads in agreement, with "don't think for yourself, let me think for you." on repeat. If you haven't come to the conclusion, that the possibility there might be a creator, in whatever form that might be, just because you're pissed off they didn't give you their contact info, you're not a thinking person at all.
Your illiteracy betrays your bias.
Agree wholeheartedly. But no comma needed, and don’t you mean worse instead of worst?
This is a true masterclass in public speaking.Hitchen was a given, but Grayling is also a incredible speaker.
Christians never check facts, yet think Christian paranoia needs to be spread, especially to kids.
Right? I will have to look into Grayling. Imagine speaking next to Hitchens and then getting a "bravo" from him. ❤
Without invisible enemies and invisble superheroes and the battle for universal supremacy, Christianity would be dull. If only Moses were real, though. @@haleyguthrie3113
Really only a couple problems with what he had to say. First, the whole thing about "Shouldn't you want them to be miserable?" - if you read the sermon on the mount, you know that in context, the very next line says "...for they shall be comforted". In other words, that weeping and mourning people will be comforted and that is WHY they are blessed & not because happiness is not wanted or desired. Also that thing about giving all your money away and following, was only in context of the young man who asked him what to do and then pressed him. While it's something that was encouraged, it was not a commandment...probably because of how few people would or could follow it.
Doesn't hold a candle to Scruton though, or loads of other idealist-type philosophers. I guess if I'm a philosopher like him all I have to do is assert something for it to be true. "That peculiar word I which doesn't describe anything material..." Yeah, just because you say so? No analysis of how identity is understood or anything about psychology or sociology or biology or even other philosophical outlooks, just announce it and declare it true. Calling something secular when that's irrelevant to regimes in the 20th century (also not proving it), and the old classic of announcing your opponents feel this way or that way without any support either.
No proof of Moses, yet you have faith. Do folks fall for your myth?@@michaelnurge1652
This man's legacy will live on forever, what a speaker and intellect. Miss you brother ❤
Surely even religious people must occasionally ask themselves; Out of thousands of gods on offer, how come we rejected all of them except the one most-popular in our geographical location?
@@TonyEnglandUKNever underestimate the levels of stupidity allowed to roam free in public.
@@TonyEnglandUK Yes they do. As you sometimes wonder, what if...
In his way of thinking, he is gone gone gone forever. What's he going to say if the Lord rejects him? He's gonna be mad that he denied Him very, very publicly.
@@Mac-sb5lj The same as you are going to say if your god is the wrong one and any of the 2,999 other gods are right.
I grew up as a YEC Christian. I remember hearing Hitchens and Dawkins and those like them were literally of the devil and evil. Now I see why, because they make sense. That's very dangerous in ideology that cannot stand up to scrutiny. I would definitely agree with the motion put forth by them.
Hitchens' obsession with Christianity does indeed make sense when you consider the fact that his mother was jewish.
@@MNAHN-T.GOF-NNYou are only mentioning a fact that in itself was not the most significant. The actual reason of his hatred of Christianity and all religions together with it come from both the stupidity of all religions that are false and man-made AND the fact that a former priest managed to take his mother away from the family and that his mother committed a joint suicide with him leaving his father without a wife and Christopher and his brother without a mother.
Life is logic and logic requires value for operation in order to make decisions. You weigh things up in your mind and try to make the best decisions based on values, the value we apply to this process is within emotion, which ranges from negative through neutral to positive. We get these emotional values from previous experience via the senses.
So the way to exploit this system of logic is to infiltrate value and to do that we can use the concept of belief. Where an opinion is considered true as though it's previous experience to draw from, it also makes everyone within the group the same. In terms of being relatable, all believers are on the same page and can be more easily herded.
In the end the manipulation and exploitation of this system of value is designed to create a pyramid scheme, where the peddlers live a better life at the expense of all the followers/believers and people who are trapped between it all.
This isn't just about religion, it includes money and any belief of value in intangible concepts to create a society that is the shape of a pyramid, a reward based hierarchy.
Anyway, one thing about this is, in order to have a top, you have to first create a bottom.
It is a shame you saw the light and opted to move in the other direction.
@@femibabalola4057 The only thing in life that requires belief is a lie!
You're not born racist or religious, you're taught it.
Yep, religion is a matter of geography, not revelation.
Exactly. 👍🧡🌱
I don't know if that's true with racism. I vaguely recall studies involving young children split into groups with different colour clothing. Said children very quickly started to discriminate based on this. I suspect it's deep evolutional programming which once served a purpose survival-wise - much like religion or rather superstitious thinking (pigeon experiment!)
🐕✌️✌️✌️✌️✌️✌️
@@leguman3780 children are not instinctualy racist. That is a fact not a debatable opinion.
It would certainly help if many religious people concentrated on being better people instead of trying to make everyone else better. Though the world would benefit if a certain religion did not exist.
You mean Pisslam, I presume!
And that is not the case for nonreligious people? 🤨
I mean iainclark5964, do you not tell the "religious people" how they can be better people, if they lay down their religion...?
10 years ago i became an athiest.. And in my search for back up in my atheism and to support my decision i searched and came acoss dawkins and was pleased...shortly after discovering dawks he led me to hitchens. And i was THRILLED.. I FOUND THE VOICE OF MY BELIEFS THAT DAY..hitchens is my bible. I listen to him every day and i refer back to his words in the rare case i run into any doubts!!! Christopher is a life changer. I strongly suggest his books to everyone..
I was not accepted in Catholic school bc I asked too many questions. Sitting in church as a child, watching the rituals and nonsense, I thought to myself, all these people are crazy. no big surprise that I became a Scientist.
God only acts by the nature of law ,And forced by no body ! And it is easy to say i am a agnost, that doesn,t mean i say there is no God . I just don,t know.
Pat yourself on the back more
@@kanis999 YOU !..You do it Yourself ! You lovely lovely boy
I agree. Catholicism has many aspects of its doctrine that are not Biblical. It's simply about a relationship with Jesus Christ. Nothing more, nothing less. Be blessed!
Christopher Hitchens killed off this debate, and he even had Professor Dawkins next to him; madly impressive.
When I first bumped into Dawkins I felt like "why does he waste his energy on bashing religion? And in a not modern way? Fighting myths instead of concentrating perhaps on the psychological or other aspects of religion?" But that´s because I come from one of the most atheist countries in the world and the fact that some people actually believe in God the old fashioned way (and in huge numbers) was so alien to me, so nutty and stupid, just bonkers. How can you believe THAT? I could understand less developed countries and tradition but christianity the way it goes on for example in the US, that´s just something that I can´t fathom.
...
@@caroline4323
Yeah, it's crazy, isn't it? 🤔
I'm still baffled by it. As a child, I always kinda thought that everyone just pretended to like churches and religious stuff, but didn't actually believe those ideas.
Aren't we all educated and intelligent people? Then how can we just ignore all of our education and reason and believe in such utter foolish nonsense? 😅
@@saschamayer4050 Absolutely crazy :D
You would think a first grader would consider it highly dubious along with santa claus and tooth fairy..
We got used to the fact that it exist, for some people, religion I mean, but when you say some of the things they believe in outloud it´s just... how on earth???
@@caroline4323 Even in the US, 50 years ago 90% identified as Christians, as opposed to 60% now. That was in a major Pew research Center poll you can find.
@@saschamayer4050 They are indoctrinated. I listened to a Christian TH-camr David Wood laugh at the prophet Mohammed riding to the moon on a winged horse, but in the same sentence he thinks that snakes were having a Chat in the garden of Eden.
I was born into LDS mormonism, Dr. Dawkins book, The God Delusion, which I found in a bookstore by chance, changed my life.
I, too, would be upset realizing I was raised in a cult like Mormonism. It's simply the relationship with Jesus Christ and following His Word (Bible). Not strange offshoots like Mormonism or Jehovah's Witnesses.
@@07acanoia I, too, would be upset realizing I was raised in a cult like Christianity. Especially if it was a strange offshoot like Protestantism.
@@mrsatire9475 You're the coolest. I didn't know you we could just repeat a comment but switch some words around! my hero! 🥹
@@07acanoia I don't blame you for being upset, you've been fooled. It probably does not feel good to be fooled for so long. Thank you.
@@mrsatire9475 just open up and be honest man. Projecting your emotions on me is not the way bro. Realizing that you’re more than a spec of dust evolved from fish can be quite startling. Crying is fine and I’m here for you
Anyone whom reads this and has the amazing skills or oration and intelligence of Hitch...
This man saved my life in all ways by just sticking up for sheltered, religious children like I was.
You may not feel an obligation to speak, but for me, it's necessary to use my gifts. Someone's life might change if you use it for our future generations. ❤
How do you feel about Jordan peterson
@madra000 I like him. AZ a teacher for sure. But he is no exorbitant speaker
I feel pity for those who need the threat of a hell after death and a religion (policing them) making sure they do the right thing.
Agreed. As an immoral atheist I have raped, murdered, and beaten every person in my life I have wanted to.
(ZERO).
I can remember the moment, at seven years old, that I began to doubt religion. I was thinking about the concept of eternal punishment (and literal punishment is what we were taught), and what kind of evil mindset a being would need to have to even conceive of such a thing, much less implement it.
Pity? So condescending. We have the State and the Law and Enforcement to remind us, along with the "threat of fines and jail time" when we violate certain moral codes. Should I pity those who have a healthy respect for the Law and its ramifications as a criminal? We humans are bent to break laws and go too far, so some threats are good for our cohesion and civility. Plus, there are rewards to that, i.e. a peaceful, well-oiled machine of a Society with trust and unselfishness. Now, bring God back into it. For those who believe and live such morality out before Him in their religion, can you see how it's nothing to pitied, but given its proper due? We respect His Law, because we trust Him, especially His goodness, justice, mercy and wisdom. Otherwise, we create our own Hell here on earth by our own doing. You can criticize religion as "policing", but you are policed as well. Better to be real and admit it with your eyes wide open.
@@machtnichtsseimann I not only pity, but despise those who believe without question or evidence a genocidal god who gives rules on how to treat one's slaves.
@@thedubwhisperer2157 And you make a reply to @machtnichtsseimann without addressing any of his/her points. You seem like a dismissive, hateful person.
" “No organized religion can be in favor of a totally open mind. That's why an organized religion is not a religion at all; it is a politics."
"I believe that all the religions are both harmful and untrue." -- Bertrand Russell
_"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weakness, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still purely primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation, no matter how subtle, can change this for me. For me the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstition."_ - *Albert Einstein, letter to Erik Gutkind, January, 1954.*
Wow! That's a powerful religious statement!
it only takes this man name to be mentioned to cheer my whole day up. so glad we had him
Opening Statements
3:10 - Christopher Hitchens
16:51 - Nigel Spivey
26:46 - Richard Dawkins
36:49 - Julia Neuberger
46:50 - A.C. Grayling
56:24 - Roger Scruton
1:08:11 - Audience Questions
Closing Statements
1:36:28 - Christopher Hitchens
1:40:22 - Nigel Spivey
1:43:31 - Richard Dawkins
1:46:31 - Julia Neuberger
1:48:55 - A.C. Grayling
1:52:35 - Roger Scruton
1:55:42 - Poll Results
Genesis 5
Lexham English Bible
Adam’s Descendants to Noah
5 This is the record of the generations[a] of Adam. When[b] God created Adam,[c] he made him in the likeness of God. 2 Male and female he created them. And he blessed them. And he called their name “Humankind” when[d] they were created. 3 And when Adam had lived one hundred and thirty years, he fathered a child in his likeness, according to his image. And he called his name Seth. 4 And the days of Adam after he fathered Seth were eight hundred years. And he fathered sons and daughters. 5 And all the days of Adam which he lived were nine hundred and thirty years, and he died.
6 When[e] Seth had lived one hundred and five years, he fathered Enosh. 7 And after Seth had fathered Enosh he lived eight hundred and seven years, and fathered sons and daughters. 8 And all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years, and he died.
9 When[f] Enosh lived ninety years, he fathered Kenan. 10 And after Enosh fathered Kenan he lived eight hundred and fifteen years, and fathered sons and daughters. 11 And all the days of Enosh were nine hundred and five years, and he died.
12 When[g] Kenan had lived seventy years, he fathered Mahalalel. 13 And after Kenan had fathered Mahalalel, he lived eight hundred and forty years, and fathered sons and daughters. 14 And all the days of Kenan were nine hundred and ten years, and he died.
15 When[h] Mahalalel had lived sixty-five years, he fathered Jared. 16 And after Mahalalel had fathered Jared, he lived eight hundred and thirty years, and fathered sons and daughters. 17 And all the days of Mahalalel were eight hundred and ninety-five years, and he died.
18 When[i] Jared had lived one hundred and sixty-two years, he fathered Enoch. 19 And after Jared had fathered Enoch, he lived eight hundred years, and fathered sons and daughters. 20 And all the days of Jared were nine hundred and sixty-two years, and he died.
21 When[j] Enoch had lived sixty-five years, he fathered Methuselah. 22 And Enoch walked with God after he fathered Methuselah three hundred years, and fathered sons and daughters. 23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred and sixty-five years. 24 And Enoch walked with God, and he was no more, for God took him.
25 When[k] Methuselah had lived one hundred and eighty-seven years, he fathered Lamech. 26 And after Methuselah had fathered Lamech, he lived seven hundred and eighty-two years, and fathered sons and daughters. 27 And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred and sixty-nine years, and he died.
28 When[l] Lamech had lived one hundred and eighty-two years, he fathered a son. 29 And he called his name Noah, saying, “This one shall relieve us[m] from our work, and from the hard labor of our hands, from the ground which Yahweh had cursed. 30 And after Lamech had fathered Noah he lived five hundred and ninety-five years, and he fathered sons and daughters. 31 All the days of Lamech were seven hundred and seventy-seven years, and he died.
32 When[n] Noah was five hundred years old,[o] Noah fathered Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
Thanks Man... love you for this from India
@8191 21521381194 in your childhood, primary school days have you ever drawn with pencils in your notebook or written exams about the structure of neurons whose connections in millions create human brain? Have you ever used a single ine of them, ever.
Before Independence in a history of a country with mordern ways of governance and constitution there is only one history of mankind.
Death; a sure reality bound to happen was very much common and frequent dude than the days you are mentioning that is the reason the most vulnerable people had most reproductive populations.
Why Nations Fall?
Of all the reasons you are the most easiest predictable but inflexible in path towards Matrioshka Brain.
@@user-qp1jh5vm8m copy and paste from a fable???? I could do that from books i believe in - surly formulating your own thoughts is a better argument??
Thx.
I love how Christopher put both hands up when his opposition asked if anyone in the room had ever kissed a photograph. A great mind with great heart.
I thank -insert diety here- that Hitchens lived in the same time as video and internet so that his messages can live on not only in words but in his delivery and essence. I hope anyone reading this has a good day.
Hitchens and Dawkins?
Talk about an unstoppable force...
I love C. Hitchens....an amazing human being. What an irreparable loss 😢
Sure, if you like warmongering Islamaphobic misogynists.
He was selfish and only cared about his opinion.
@@jadem187111 pathetic attempt to discredit him. mad much?
fail fail you all are falling and failing..you hypocritical woke democrats and high priests of science think no one can question your idiotic ideas of something from nothing unless it passes through your ears first... ..... without God , your 2nd amendment rights to pervert would not exist.. isnt that true? oh..you skipped american history and that part about the Constitution, what was it that brought your ancestors here from Europe to begin with? to give you the right to pervert? ...
e=mc2 except for tyson, degraase, ..... and dawkins is trying to understand what '' from dust dawkins art and to dust dawkins shall return''' other wise known as entropy.. isnt this all reasonable and true? .... go learn what that means. the Book of Mormon
@@yewyangfoo you mad you lost your 'hero'?
Oh I will always miss Christopher and his great skill of debating and his eloquence!
We need more humorless ponces like him more than ever...
@@nikkideanmusicWomen DO have full control of their bodies and reproduction. Unless we're raped, we have 100% of the control. We know how babies are made (despite misogynists declaring us unable to make the connection between sex and conception), and will not have sex if there's any chance of a conception we don't want. If we proceed with sex anyway, knowing the connection between the act and conception, we are choosing potential conception. Again, 100% control.
Take a moment, my fellow ape. He is god...❤😂
Immortality is in jpeg.
Christopher never seemed to understand the role that evil plays in our world and the fact that God gave us free will. He always asked the question, if there is a God, then why is there evil? God told us satan rules this world and that we would have trouble here. We have to have free will in order for love to exist, because love is a choice. With that, comes evil, for not all people choose love. God does not always intervene on evil. Where would he draw the line? Both the bible & the world is a battle of good vs evil and Christopher never got that.
@@kbw6917 With respect, the same people who claim 'free will', also say that everything is part of god's plan. That 'he' knows what our lives will be before we're born.
If you can reconcile that with free will, then you engaging in some very clever mental gymnastics.
Reading the Trial of Henry Kissinger over Christmas, awesome book, Hitchens was a legend
Just bought that audiable book, looking forward to listening to it. I love all CH’s book, specially his last one, Mortality, so moving and real
I wish Hitch was around. We need him more than ever. Love this man
hitchens is a charletan
@@MasterK-hv4wsyou have been brainwashed by a cult. Hitch is a hero.
Christopher starts this blowing everything away! He truly was a legend of reason! What a loss for humanity!
I surely miss his sharp & honest mind.
As an 8 year old child I found the notion of god (any god) to be incredulous. I certainly can’t prove that there is no god and conversely theists can’t prove its existence. When push came to shove I simply said, “If you want to be stupid, that’s fine with me.” And walked away.
I’m 70 today and still say the same thing to religious fanatics.
The sun deserves more attention than a god made in man’s image.
“Is man merely a mistake of God's? Or God merely a mistake of man?
Friedrich Nietzsche. 1844-1900
Thank you for saying that. I'm 76 and was indocrinated from birth as a Catholic. Finally, in my 40s, I thought "No more lies". Never been happier for past 30 years. Human race needs to offload this stuff and start to use a brain, instead of indoctrination.
Yes. Humanity needs to outgrow or find a cure for primitive myths, boundless greed and insatiable lust for power.
myths, boundless greed and insatiable lust for power also exist in high degrees outside of religion, history shows this as well. So I would kindly suggest you rethink this matter more carefully as it is not one sided... I used to also be turned of by the word religion until I realized how much good it has done and continues to do.The root word of religion means to bring together. So religions not doing this, should be called out. There is 2 sides to every coin.
@@J0PHIEL Yes, it brought the 9/11 attackers together
Should be mandatory to watch for all high school pupils.
As an atheist and I’m better off without religion, if others want to believe in religion then that is up to them. The more important thing is that religion should have no place or power in government.
It's unfortunate that cults get a pass on paying the taxes that other legitimate businesses and enterprises must pay.
However, government people should be aware of scientific fundamental GAPS.
Materialistic scientists do Not Know the origin and source of Life (living organisms).
Also, medical science does not know the origin of consciousness.
Atheism will always need religion to validate its none religious sense of identity.
Atheism is the all-important post religious phase of the greater spiritual path.
It's the necessary limbo state that sits between religiosity and spirituality.
Like Neo stuck between two train stations where he can only get rescued from a potential permanent limbo state (Mobil) by the one and only Trinity.
The trinity of the Christed path is The Way (through religion), the Truth (Atheism) and The Life (direct spirituality).
Scripture was not written by the religious or the atheist, but was written by the spiritual for all spiritual and soul levels.
No, religion will always need atheism to validate its non atheist sense of identity.
The fool says in his heart there is no God. The great scientist Einstein once said: Science without religion os lame.
I am revisiting this because I am feeling a little lonely being an atheist immigrant amongst believers in Wisconsin, i will not go as far as saying I'm "wallowing in self pity" but definitely having a "legal alien" moment- I'm so heartened and find it so encouraging to see so many recent comments to this video. It demonstrates Mr. Hitchens continued relevance and leaves me feeling hopeful. Thank you.
Keep your chin up.
I know exactly how you feel. I study different religions because I want to understand how intelligent, otherwise independent thinkers can be so irrational about something so fundamental. It must be wonderful and I envy that ability to "pass the buck" of control and responsibility. The rest of us have to pick up the slack. You are not alone, we're just waiting quietly in the wings for the simple bullies to go home. The reality is that they are "hopers" not "believers". The louder they argue, know that it's to silence their own rational thought.
That's a Sri Lankan name, but a picture of a European. You don't even look half Sri Lankan. I'm so confused, lol. How did a genetic European end up in Sri Lanka, followed by being harrased by Wisconsin Christians? You've apparently lived an interesting life so far.. 🤔
I'm in Wisconsin and am with you.
You got this.
Greetings from the Bible Belt of Oklahoma.
I never met Christopher, or got to see him when he was alive, but i do miss him, what a spectacular human being he truly was.
1:13:35 Couldn't stop laughing at the mother who had to exclaim she has three children but to also highlight that one of them is a doctor as if that has any relevance to her question or the debate.
I have risen from the dead just to have this debate in 2023
Proof that prayers are answered, bless!
Your writing is perfectly brilliant! Can't wait to have a skate sesh once I'm where you are some day. Salud!
@@apostate2730 he was a dreadful NeoCon and even backed the Iraq bloodbath.
@@Jeremyramone probably right here on Earth, if anywhere at all,... if our successors find merit in resurrecting humans of the past lol
He is truly missed 😢
Hitchems eloquently says what i am thinking while i sit in church with the wife
Grow a pair then, and stop wasting time in church.
then you are not being honest with your wife. What a ''moral'' person you are. Keep watching Downkins and Hitchyens
@@benoitmetail8727 You're a child who don't know how the real world works. If you are an adult, I can almost guarantee you're an insuferable person.
why do you do that?
@@MrSoulauctioneer do what?
The people on the side of religion always turn it on people, not God. They never defend God, just blame people.
When it’s good, it’s god, when it’s bad, it’s people.
@@PlanetThrillz But Christ invented the devil and Hell. Before he came along, people died and turned to dust.
Incredible calibre of minds. Hitchens, Dawkins, Scrutron, Grayling, etc. Thoroughly enjoyable
Like listening to Neal DeGrasse Tyson, too.
This is old but a fantastic debate among intellectuals on both sides. Christopher Hitchens is just so very intellectual and insightful, and quick in his rebuttals, while Richard Dawkins is unwavering in his own answers and always stays on point. Something like this should be shown to kids when they reach the age at which they can truly understand all of what’s being said. Not being an educator I don’t know what age that is. The strategy on the other side seemed to be one of trying to distance themselves from what I’d call traditional religion, and trying to hang their hat on behaviors or works that they would like you to attribute to religion, or, trying to make you believe religion is in-bred and we can’t get rid of it so don’t even try. It was a well spent two hours listening to these discussions.
"Kids" do not reach that age. You have to taste some of the bitterness of life, some of the madness bred into us by evolution, to fully understand. The problem with a lot of leftist ideas is that they argue purely based on logic, without taking into account the sometimes illogical nature of humanity. Unless people have the life experience to account for that, it's actually harmful to introduce them to this kind of thinking. They will try to navigate the world according to perfectly logical rules that somehow fail to apply.
I have t0 take excepti0n t0 the cIaim "inteIIectuaIs" 0n b0th sides
pe0pIe wh0 base their Iives 0n the n0ti0n 0f an invisibIe 0mnip0tent 0mniscient being bey0nd time and space wh0 cares ab0ut f0reskins
are n0t inteIIectuaIs they are dysfuncti0naI infants
It could be that they had to distance themselves from religion because there would be a problem in picking with religion variant is the correct one lol ... oops
Quite right about this being important for kids to get some exposure to once they can interpret clear enough, truly enriches the mind. I personally don't have a fancy job or a successful career but seeing a number of lectures & debates as a teenager developed a wonderful love of books & discussions. In the early days of TH-cam I used to smoke weed & watch Hitchens. 😅
they never ended up talking about the same thing. the proponents said that literal belief in a literal supernatural is unreasonable, so religion is a net negative. while the opponents said that religions remind the listeners of virtues and inspire living them out.
when they came close to really having the same terms and objects of debate was when the proponents said "yeah we can have all those good things without the beliefs, we call it culture", and the leftmost professor also remarked how buddhist philosophy has a lot less supernatural claims at its core (mind you i think it still has some), so it's in that sense more ideal. the opposition, esp. the rabbi lady did mention how literal belief is secondary to the moral value religion has for her.
so the point is, the opposition wasn't interested in dropping the supernatural belief, even should they have been agnostic. i presume the proponents mostly had a problem with that, and that such irrational beliefs make some people spead, uphold, defend those irrational beliefs by force, getting angry and violent about it, ...which they view as the main evil in religion, so getting rid of the unverifiable is more important than letting a few people be more sad who will only ever engage with religion if the proposed gods were literally true, and not for the good morals they could see in the religion. sth like that.
I came in as a Christian and left as an athiest.
Good for you. 👍
I'm glad, but also extremely worried that a TH-cam video has the ability to change your world view...
Humans are hardwired to seek answers. Religion offers simple answers to complex questions.
To imply non-religous people are non-moral, due to lack of belief in their chosen religion (of the long list of options) shows a lack of empathy and morals.
45:45 I don't know about other communities but where I grew up, Religion was just not a thing. That didn't prevent the people from helping each other without expecting anything back. There's still a little bit of that left because of the people that grew up in that time period. Mostly in smaller cities and villages. Which time period do I mean? The time where Germany was divided. And where I grew up was NOT the western part of it. Before anyone assumes again what I mean: I don't think much was good at that time in that place but the people. Doing what they could with little what they had to help each other.
One of my regrets is life.. never to have listened to Hitchens live 😢
My regret is that I never heard of him till well after he was gone.
We can't have it all but we can take the second best. He will be remembered in his books.
So get hold of them.
Reading his books would help your regret. He has written a lot.
If you believe him you will get to listen to him after you die.....lol. :)
Sandeep, listening to him live was challenging, because he wrote and spoke densely, with sentences packed with colors and lexicon that were difficult to assimilate fully in their initial onslaught. With the benefit of video, you can parse out his joy of using words, and dissect his meanings much more fully than most people can do on the fly, live, because you can replay it until you have extracted his very exacting point, then you can appreciate his humor and wit much more fully than you would be able to do hearing him live. Let that "regret" go. You have nothing to regret.
He wasn't god
As a deist. Common sense and Rationality reveals all. We don’t need a religion. Just kindness and a open heart along with mind.
Well my children you are finally growing up
I agree with you 100. However relegion offers those without the inellect and ability to be introspective such as yourself, rules for the moral traffic. Then there is the social pressures for those with a strong relegious family. The issue as always is the abuse in the name of relegion
Mind Begs the Question:
If a Religion - Encourages exercising Thought
If a Govt - Discourages exercising Thought
More Scientific - Govt,Religion?
@@anthonymorales842 That would be, "100 percent" "RELIGION", "INTELLECT" "RELIGIOUS" and "RELIGION" once more. It would have been a great comment apart from the fact that it lacked the intelligence of even the dumbest of Amoebas, and when you have to consider that in it's present form, Atheism has killed more people than any other socially constructed belief, religion seems like a winning ideal.
@@michaeleastham3868 Well there's no need to go insulting amoebas
I agree 100% with all what prof. Dawkins said about religion hindering the growth of children.
There is one thing I know for sure..... Life is too short, so don't fear anything, because against a backdrop of death, what do we really have to lose!!?
"Religion is manmade and it shows." Ah, the Hitchslap, so satisfying.
He is now manure. Religion is still here.
Smug redditism, it is evolutionarily selected, and the false alternative is a dead end.
Religion is manmade but it was supposed to be divinely inspired and it has lost that connection. However it doesn't mean that atheism is correct either.
Religion is man's word -Faith is God's word
People clearly like science fiction
A splendid example of not being mad at each other’s being simply for having different thought. Disagreement should not equal disrespect. We’d all be better to remember this.
Yes. The religious should be respected, but religion itself should be disrespected.
My boy pointed at the local concrete block police station and said " That was designed by clever men that believed in science" then he pointed at the Cathedral opposite and said "that was built by illiterate men that believed in God"
I can't figure out the point you think you're making.
Yeah, that makes sense. You don’t understand what he just said.
@@getoncourse4621 I toaster seven for blue dollars.
Oh you don't understand what I said? You must be dumb.
Positively medieval the actions of Hamas - "My religion is better than your religion - bang, bang, you're dead". Religion - it's unbelievable!
I am saddened that Christopher is no longer at the party. He was a great voice for the rationalists in the world.
Except that he was so full of irrational dogmas about religion, culture, history and Mother Teresa
@@topologyrob
He was definitely a bit narcissistic
if he's wrong he's in the hot place isn't he? how sad
@@jersmith1486 how sad? Hell, if he's there I can't wait!
@You'reAClown, then I shall meet him there with open arms
I've listened to many of these debates and in my humble opinion, religion has everything to prove.
What a change from the days when religion called the shots.
You’re still religious. You’ve just traded one set of beliefs for another as society has shifted. Modern ideologies still tell people how to think, what’s right and who to hate.
@@oblitibley Nope. Religious people pray to a god and take nonsense at face value. Atheists like myself, don't.
@@pseudonayme7717 If materialism is all there is, belief in freedom, truth, justice or whatever else you believe in is just as unfounded as a belief in God. Maybe people don’t believe in miracles or pray, but they have their gods. Modern society holds a dozen contradictory beliefs they blindly hold to because challenging them would collapse their faith.
Would you challenge with similar humility those who assert the existence of a fire-spewing dragon or a flat earth or a flying teapot?
@@hah-vj7hc If your starting point is that existence is purely material then how can you have anything else?
I used to be an atheist but when I've experienced the supernatural a number of times, this lead me to doubt my beliefs thinking that there is more to this natural world that we can't comprehend. I've learned the concept of the “third eye” (the sixth sense per se) wherein some people are actually more sensitive to seeing or experiencing the spiritual realm. Our comprehension/observation of the world is limited only to the 5 physical senses. Perhaps by opening the heart and mind to the unknown, people can enter a higher state of being and experience a world beyond our physical limits.
Animals do not have religion (so far as we know) yet seem to show a great amount of compassion, love, altruism, and socially enforced quasi-moral standards. We do not need religion to be caring. We do not need religion to desire to ease one another's suffering. There is absolutely zero evidence for the validity of any religion. Yet the scientific perspective grows and changes continuously, evolving much the same as organisms do. It is the proper pursuit of truth and reason. Furthermore, the universe and our existence are already incredibly marvelous. Proposing a glorious afterlife and living for the attainment of that afterlife, which again there is zero evidence for, belittles our own existence and devalues us as the miracles of the universe that we already are. We are all atomic matter, the same as all of the inanimate matter around us. Yet we are consciously aware and able to examine and question our own existence. As Carl Sagan says, "we are a way for the universe to know itself." Magnificent, poetic, and based in reality.
Dialogue, a weapon from a more civilized age.
…that’s no moon…
Was born into the smallminded bubble of Christian world. Got out with 34.. now almost 10 years later still mourning the rich intelligent world they kept me away from. Hitchens and Dawkins saved my life!!!!
The world is better off without religion for sure. Religion is always power abuse, even in so claimed religions of love..
And to the morality question: I met more good and Kind persons outside of church. Christians broke me. I healed just after getting out..
I really loved Professor Richard Dawkins arguments against religion. It was brilliant.
Comedians like Ricky Gervais or George Carlin have provided so much laughter in my life. It's hard for me to imagine a world where they would be out of work, or not as funny.
Good point. 😅
Plus we would not have had Hitchslaps or Richard interviewing Haggard and Wendy Wright. 😂
"It's hard for me to imagine a world where they would be out of work..." Hell.
I find Ricky to be a bit a wank, inexplicably can’t stand him. George Carlin is one of the greats though, still unbelievable him and Christopher are gone.
@@davet9900 I’m sure they have pretty decent careers in hell. If hell wasn’t imaginary that is.
For all of the great minds debating the existence of a God, I don't think anybody summed it up better than George Carlin did in 2 minutes.
When you have Dawkins and Hitchens as your opponent, just give up. Your two options are: lose the debate or get hitchslapped and lose the debate.
I think Dawkins is a one trick pony. And just like the rest of us he is human and all humans make mistakes. Don't they?
@@Si-cb4kh well, he wrote many books arguing against religion so it's definitely more than one trick.
@elmohead, no, it’s the same trick repeated over and over.
In the end, both Hitchens and Dawkins have conceded that there is most likely a higher power of one sort or another, hardly the stance of an atheist with conviction.
@@vincewidemann868 it's logical to think that there is a higher power. In an infinite number of multiverses, there is infinitely more universes with a higher power than one in which humans are the highest power.
Doesn't mean god.
@@elmohead I suppose it is worth asking what is logic and where does it come from? If a human commits to a theory which is logical to them after believing or disproving another then he or she would probably religiously try to justify this belief they have found in a new logical point of view becoming so arrogant that no one else could possibly disprove it. Dawkins and Hitchens could be right. However they could be wrong as humans are infallible. We are organic and there are may things that we can not know. Who is going to say without any doubt that we can know everything there is to know. And if that is the case there is always room for doubt and the possibility of something unimaginable something not yet discovered or experienced.
I had two managers at work (several years ago now) who, like me, were raised Catholic, yet both were two-faced, liars and backstabbers, hurting others unnecessarily to their own ends. I could never behave like that towards anyone and I long since fell away from the religion. Why should it matter if one is religious or not, which God they believe in and how so long as they don't impose their beliefs on others. The differences between relgions and in the same one - ie Christianity - have caused many wars with people being burnt at the stake or their heads cut off. A moral compass is not necessarily a part of religion.
I take exception to what the lady said at 42:50 about hospice and palliative care. I literally watched my mother die of cancer and I felt no presence of your beloved god.
If it weren't religion, humans would find other reasons to control and punish others. It is convenient for us to blame the wishes of deity when we treat others badly.
But it's so much easier for any reprobate/psychopath/control freak to perform their atrocities et all when it's done in the name of god
Man creates God in his own image.
No..
The opposite.
@@gore1089
Lots of people behave in ways that prove his point, though.
@@Repdem
That's true, Godless faithless impersonalism.. what a future
Beware of darkness.
th-cam.com/video/AcOo8diJzs0/w-d-xo.html
Love this headline. We'd ALL be better off without the nonsense of religion.
What difference does it make? You used the word "better". That comes from the word "good". How do you define whats good in the first place without religion? Its definition is subjective according to most atheists anyway.
@@xatel_3914
And if i kill you My god Wotan will send you to Hela.
Bring your sword.
OR
define GOOD as beneficial to humans.
That's silly. You don't need religion to define what the word good means.
How did the people before the creation of your silly religion use the word "good"?
Obviously they didn't use that word specifically, but how did they use the equivalent word of their respective language?
I'm very certain that they use it in a similar fashion that we use it; good being a positive outcome.
And the word bad or their equivalent word from their respective language being a negative outcome.
What makes you think that the usage of the word good comes from the Bible? That's the silliest thing I've heard in a long time 😅
Your comment is not "good". 🤦
Look where religion was oulawed: the Soviet Union and China. Millions were killed to ensure that the religion of the dictatorships of Lenin, Stalin and Mao. More than the religious wars of Christinity and Islam conbined.
You're making alot of assumption therebuddy. I challenge you to name one civilisation in human history that didn't have a religion.
You're also assuming that I am christian.
Your response to my first comment is not "good".
So who's version are we supposed to take here? yours or mine? or do you admit that the definition of good is subjective?
If so, then you need religion to tell you what good or bad is objectively. Otherwise its a "he said she said" situation.
You're the naive one here.
Religion literally cripple your capacity to think outside the box so we would definitely better off without it
When I was young, having been born a Christian we were not practicing religious people. But my mother would go to church on Sundays by herself.
I didn't go but I believed because of that faithfulness she had , she covered her head with a scarf and would walk a mile in the snow to church.
I would ask her why do you do this......
She would say why do you think I'm going to church for me , no I'm going for you and everyone else.
How can you answer that in these times...?
You can't.
And you never will .
Such is the will of God!!
Rip Christopher, one of a kind,legend
not true hell from a young child I been telling everyone I can about how messed up religion is and how it's a cult, so therefore I from a way younger age then Christopher been speaking truth about this insanity your comment is so stupid and false you need to think before you speak! not my fault you see the world thru blinders and don't ask questions and just blindly follow.
That first 16 minutes of Hitchens is something I listen to on a regular basis for its brilliance and humanity. It makes my small problems seem utterly insignificant by comparison and shows what could be possible if only we could *GROW UP* as a species!
Well said Jeff! 👍😊
The religion of Hitchens All Hail Christopher the all knowing!! The irony…
@@GloryCarrier22 He was way smarter than you, that's for sure. I hope the only irony here is your comment.
@@pbluma you have the same problem he had, arrogance enough to assume way too many things and the same dogma you accuse others of…
@@GloryCarrier22 As opposed to people who read some old book and think they know everything. Get outta here, you make me laugh. Of course we can be arrogant when we're right, I don't really care about the opinions of sheep who follow religion, NPC minds.
At 1:26:20, I'm struck by what Hitchens says (following equally wonderful comments by Dawkins and Graying). Yes... let's get our indulgence of supernatural beliefs out of the way so we can become all that we can be, and know all that we can know.
Hitchens is such a beast, that Dawkins just "sits there next to him" lol
We would be more advanced, less divided, and have a greater amount of caring for fellow humans without religion. Religion serves as a control mechanism that has stifled humans progress since we began.
I call bologna on that. The underlying reasons why we care for others in western societies is due to the cultural institutions founded on religious principles that do not stand up to scrutiny without an illogical claims made on faith.
Without cultish allegiance to illogical claims not seen in physical reality(for example the supposed existence of inalienable rights as opposed to the reality of temporary and mutually beneficial treaties), the natural conclusion is that we are all nothing more than bags of meat in an effectively infinite and uncaring universe.
I may care for my family or my immediate friends as part of in-group tribal preference, but beyond such an informal tribe, there is no scientific or logical reason for me to care for some dude squatting in Siberia. Or even a homeless dude on the side of the road on my way to work.
Cult instincts and feelings are as much a part of the human psyche and experience as eating and pooping. Otherwise it never would have come into existence in the first place. Which is why in the absence of old institutional religions, people are clinging to political parties, sports teams, and many other cult practices with just as much fervor as a 1600's protestant smashing church windows. Without preexisting religions, humans Will make up their own cult practices. It will always exist in some form for as long as humanity exists.
I say all this as an Atheist
@@ColinTherac117You're unethical, irrespective of your atheist beliefs.
@@ColinTherac117 "The underlying reasons why we care for others in western societies is due to the cultural institutions founded on religious principles" - False
"there is no scientific or logical reason for me to care for some dude squatting in Siberia. Or even a homeless dude on the side of the road on my way to work." - False
Simply awesome! Hitchens,Dawkins and Grayiling at their best. Hitchens was particularly brilliant.
Brilliant at.pointing people to hell.
@@femibabalola4057what hell?
You think you'll live forever even after death ... Weak.
@@femibabalola4057 The devil is in charge of hell, the devil is evil. If you are evil you go hell, why would the devil punish you? You're one of his boys!
@@azertu2u2 Imagine to live forever. Endless. Eternal. I couldn't think of a more cruel punishment, doesn't matter of you spend it in heaven or hell.
You could whatch the universe expand from the small spot, until everything has gone to waste in real time. A trillions and trillions of years just for one walkthrought. Then you could do it again, but just stay with one atom all the time. Then with another atom until you spend the lifetime of our universe with each and every atom separatey. At some time you've seen all, thought every possible though, loved every possible love, learned everything about everything.
At this point, an eternity is awaiting you ...
@@femibabalola4057
Pffft!!!
Whackadoodle.
Superstition fails.
Michael Portillo unexpectedly loosing his safe seat was priceless. A wave of anger and resentment visibly rippled through his whole body. He then forced a smile and congratulated the winner .
Faith based thought doesn’t deserve a chair on the government table. Even on any “debate” table.
Daily reminder that Christopher Hitchens is an absolute legend, and I do wish he were still here today. Would be interesting to see him potentially drift back leftwards now that the Christian Nationalists seem to be on the rise within the right wing.
Ah. Lett vs right. These are just abstractions anyways, right? The older you get, if you are a deeply thoughtful person, the more your views don't follow any of the herds.
But he would have certainly had a few harsh words for those Christian nationalists. Yes indeed.
Wrong. Very wrong indeed. Ever seen Das Kapital? It's pretty long and it's a super tough read. Marx spent a great deal of time on it. But it's all just an "abstraction" right? If that helps you sleep better I guess. Read a book or two and pick a damn side already. Are you with labor or the capitalists? It ain't that deep fam.@@ems4884
I doubt it
Getting rid of religion IS indeed an option. People evolve. Maybe not in the near future, but there will be a day , where "modern" civilization looks back at religion the same way we look at Greek mythology. Fairy tales.
Dinosaur fossils basically disprove it all.
Thats what I tell folk *Fiary Tales* We walk amongst cavemen.
To be in the audience... Very impressive indeed and how we miss the great Christopher Hitchens.
Ironically, if man did have a divine source, these men are the perfect examples! Christopher's voice is perhaps the most beautiful ever...I could never tire of listening to him even if I couldn't understand a word. What a loss to the world.
That's the case. So much talking without saying something meaningful.
@@djkostya76 Mass?
To the woman asking at 1 hour and 13...you've raised them well. They've done what we should all do - denounce monotheism and live a fulfilling humanist life, free from servility and solipsism.
For those who pride themselves in the virtue of faith, I have a serious question: How, if at all, would you live THIS life differently if it were to be revealed to you that this life is the only time that you will have to exist?
Hitch wasn't interested in how he sounded, only what he said! The fact that he was an eloquent speaker to rival the authority was a helpful asset. Anyone can learn how to speak like Hitch and others. Long may his insight inform humanity!
Most of the speakers were really good. The audience questions were good too. I may be late to the party, but I enjoyed this very much. It has aged well. Richard is an absolute legend, and Julia is awesome too!
On whether we need religion I'd say this, since my exit from faith I've been all the better for it. I appreciate everyday so much more because in my mind this is all I have, this might be the last time I speak to my brother or my friend, so I make it count. I have everything to live for and nothing to die for - Ricky Gervais. The only sad part is that I have so many religious family members, that I almost feel lonely sometimes in their company due to the fact that I withhold al lot of my thoughts and ideas from them due to being afraid of losing their friendship and kinship.
Which is why religion is sheer poison.
If you fear losing all your family and friends just because you don't believe in sky fairies it shows what a pernicious evil religion is
Christians run their mouths about how moral they are, how much they love people. But the moment you disagree with them you get ostracized. Flapping their gums about this Jesus of theirs, UNTIL money or sex is involved, then suddenly Jesus is nowhere to be found. Hypocrites; all of them!
If only there was a religion called live life because this is there is. So live love laugh and be good and kind.
I didn’t know professor Roger Scruton, and what a brilliant man. His case was pristine and well reasoned. I’ll come back to it another time cuz I need to ruminate it more throughly
Certainly a man of considerable intelligence, even if I do not agree with all his views. And we know that his heart was definitely in the right place, he wanted to help people escape from the negative effects of religion.
We removed religion a bit, and people replaced it with political fanaticism. I don’t even know which is worse anymore.
scientism - that's what has replaced religion and its experts are the new priests. Listen to the science, don't question the experts etc.
The science is settled - sound familiar?
I do, it's the latter.
@@kaiserchief9319 no scientist would say all science is settled. Science is not a question of belief - you can believe a scientist, but the whole point of scientific studies is that they can be replicated and proven true or untrue by whoever chooses to do so, which is not the case with religion. If you scrap all religious books and come back in a hundered years, new ones would be created & they would be completely different (note that every culture has their own religious story). If you do the same wiith science, it would come back more or less unchanged.
political defiantly
@@kaiserchief9319 That's normie npc 2020 covid soyence, not real science.
Humans need religion for moral virtues and meaning. The practice of religion is the question. Religion doesn't kill people. People kill people because they have not evolved enough to understand enlightment and the whole meaning for the development of religion.
Jahweh murdered all the male newborn babies and children in Egypt. Religious morality is a joke.
Amazing talk, and it underscores how important debate is to reaching the undecided.
Christopher Hitchens is a light in the darkness ... Thanks for coming ... Gone too soon .... RIP
I was brought up in a rigid religious family. It took fifty years to realize that it was based on ignorance. My grand kids are unaware of the dogma and the risks involved. I gear in a generation or two their children may revert to religion again.
Unfortunately there are plenty of dogmas people can be drawn to. The vacuum left by religion will be filled by other stupid ideas.