But how did they sleeve it doesn’t come from the factory with a special coating and I haven’t heard anybody being able to replicate it very curious because mine will need a rebuild in the future
No new video upload for 3 months long period. I hope you are good nothing happened bad. Waiting new video what about r107 mercedes project still or stop.
Why did you reuse the AP1 Valve Retainers? That is a well known issue in the Honda World that they crack, (there goes your engine …again) they are very thin! your supposed to upgrade them to the AP2 which honda improved them. This rebuild is almost half assed.
There’s literally nothing wrong with ap1 valve retainers. There’s a problem with ap1 owners driving on non-upgraded valve retainers money shifting. They don’t just crack, they crack after an over rev. There’s literally nothing wrong with ap1 retainers. They just aren’t as friendly to bad drivers
@@backroadbandits8999 why wouldn't you want the extra insurance though? Humans arent perfect. Anyone can accidentally money shift, even pros. Its apart already you might as well put in something stronger that is still an oem part.
@@darkknight097 Not saying its a good idea not to (i have them) but the retainer there self im just saying theres actually nothing wrong with if used properly
@@backroadbandits8999 You are correct, but... if they were reusing the original retainers then 100% guarantee that they've seen overrev. FBO performance is right here. Engine is disassembled. New AP2 retainers for the intake, less than $100 on a $5K+ rebuild?
Just replaced my 02 ap1 retainers with 250k on them and they look almost new,and I've hit the Rev limiter several times,went with ap2 retainers and keepers on both exhaust and intake side with new skunk2 valve stem seals, but since I'm this deep I'm probably going to replace the head gasket too.
I can recommend heavy gauge wires for jump starting. I made jump starter with 35mm^2 pure copper cables and with two batteries adding up to 1600CCA rating, also with clamps that have copper contacts and both contact of each clamp are connected. This setup is mounted on small handcart and is so capable, that cranking is exactly the same as it would be with fully charged battery in car and capacity is so big, that compression testing on many cylinders does not make cranking any slower
So glad I came across this video. Not many videos of the F2X motor being rebuilt, much less by a channel with this level of competency. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the stock cylinder walls FRM lined? Did the machine shop somehow restore the FRM lining?
reason #429 why i love this channel,...all the stoopit comments from armchair wrenchers who used to help daddy set the points in the family grocery getter....almost as much fun as the comments about the way the arc box was loaded for the fabrication series.... i need a martini now....
love watching a rebuilt on a f20c, also I got a big smile when you felt the power when driving it, I was like awesome, the Mercedes guy approves lol Glad to be subscribed to your channel, sad that he didn't add a supercharger, I will add one to my S2000 this year so it would of been instructional to see you do it up.. anyway, stay safe man, keep doing a great job in all your endeavors.
Yeah unfortunately the head had a VTEC issue I was not able to run the entire motor and it has less than 300 miles on it, was easier to k swap then find another f series at the time.. But it's a f20c h beam rods sleeved notched clearanced for the 2.4 crank with plugged oil squirters.
Never put car under load, when o2 sensor is broken, you will not feel correct power anyway and it puts stress on valves and on catalytic converter, if any exists
There are two o2 sensors. We don't know which one is the problem. It's fine to drive the car as normal if the secondary o2 is bad. I'll give these guys the benefit of the doubt that the code they got was for the secondary.
@@Jay-pf2cn The oxygen sensor is only referenced on cruise and not full throttle. Wont do any harm to beat on it with the CEL for o2 sensor. If it was a wideband sensor then thats different but pretty sure this age of s2000 used narrowband sensors.
@@Marks-Garagefailing or unsealed primary narrow band o2 will set bad fuel trim, and it will be used even on flat out. Only if it died completely no trimming is applied and obvious dtcs are set. "Open fuel correction loop due to load conditions" does not mean, that no trim is used, it means that no trimming is actually created in real time. Secondary o2 sensor is useless, even if it makes any trim at all it will not be large in any case. It is just ment to indicate catalytic converter failure
@@chrisg4rr377 this wasn't the first time the engine was run though. I build race engines and after the start/cam break in you just start hating on it. There's no time to break anything in because you're building engines at 3am the night before the race.
Yo Adriel! :) Nice job! That VTEC display was pretty cool. It's funny seeing the size and design of the Honda 4cyl when used to the German V8's etc. Great engines altogether
always astounds me how disrespectfully someone can put together an engine... why open it up if you're going to put it back together with mismatched valve clearances! good thing you guys know how to set it right 🙏🏻
@@Realtime1501 It's not even nikasil, it's FRM, fiber reinforced metal. The closest thing to FRM is lokasil from Porsche. It's a carbon reinforced aluminum sleeve. On Hondas the FRM layer is ~.4mm and the service limit for machining is .25mm. I've worked on S2000's for 12 years. The piston skirts have an iron coating to reduce friction.
@@buickboii It's too expensive to do it properly. You need to use a torque plate, and before that, you have to bolt the head on, to spec. Then you have to turn that engine over on the stand and map the cylinder. Then you have to put on the torque plate, and tighten it until you have the same measurements as with the cylinder head. Then finally you can hone, and you need very strong expensive honing stones. To get a proper plateau hone, you have to use diamond, or DLC stones, or SiC stones. Starting with 420grit to rough, then 600 to set your Ra, then 800 to set your Rpk. You're looking at ~6-8hrs of labor, that's ~$900 at a capable machine shop.
@LAD Teknologies That's the high end, I go .012 on exhaust on DBW engines. I've dyno tested .008 and .010 all the way to .010 and .012 and there's 0 difference.
@XF Motorsports Wait, how is an aluminum block with aluminum cylinders machinable? No iron sleeves, no alusil coating, just bare aluminum? Since when it was ok to do that?
Trashed Honda valves are meant to be tested with 10W60, gasoline is not recommended as it leaks through valves, that are still fine Also, head is straight if it seems to be straight and sand paper is fine to remove gasket, head bolts can be reused few times. Also shell bearing clearances are stupid, just go with 10w60 This checklist of experienced Honda rebuilders goes on and on and on, they all know what they are doing
The valves didn’t leak with gasoline so they were fine. Headbolts usually are plastically deformed when torqued to spec (xx Nm + 90° for example) and cannot be reused after that. Btw it’s not worth the risk imo. Oops, you were being sarcastic of course.
I originally gravitated towards this channel because of all the Mercedes content. There’s not much content creators on the subject of Mercedes that actually makes decent videos. however this channel turned into a whole bunch of miscellaneous bs. You guys had something good going on. Stick to it.
It is a shame that the owner is gonna sell the car after the engine is rebuilt, just because he's had a bad experience with it. (Extrapolating from the fact he wants everything back to factory spec)
this owner is a true S2000 hero... "i want the engine rebuilt 100% back to stock".... that is truly emotional 👌
I want my s2000 to have a brand new stock motor....mines at 194k
But how did they sleeve it doesn’t come from the factory with a special coating and I haven’t heard anybody being able to replicate it very curious because mine will need a rebuild in the future
These engines are line bored and the different bearing thicknessess are there to true the crank to the block.
Why are you beating on freshly built engine?
What about break in period?
No new video upload for 3 months long period. I hope you are good nothing happened bad. Waiting new video what about r107 mercedes project still or stop.
How in the hell did you get oversized pistons? It's hard enough to find regular factory pistons.
Why did you reuse the AP1 Valve Retainers? That is a well known issue in the Honda World that they crack, (there goes your engine …again) they are very thin! your supposed to upgrade them to the AP2 which honda improved them. This rebuild is almost half assed.
There’s literally nothing wrong with ap1 valve retainers. There’s a problem with ap1 owners driving on non-upgraded valve retainers money shifting. They don’t just crack, they crack after an over rev. There’s literally nothing wrong with ap1 retainers. They just aren’t as friendly to bad drivers
@@backroadbandits8999 why wouldn't you want the extra insurance though? Humans arent perfect. Anyone can accidentally money shift, even pros.
Its apart already you might as well put in something stronger that is still an oem part.
@@darkknight097 Not saying its a good idea not to (i have them) but the retainer there self im just saying theres actually nothing wrong with if used properly
@@backroadbandits8999 You are correct, but... if they were reusing the original retainers then 100% guarantee that they've seen overrev. FBO performance is right here. Engine is disassembled. New AP2 retainers for the intake, less than $100 on a $5K+ rebuild?
Just replaced my 02 ap1 retainers with 250k on them and they look almost new,and I've hit the Rev limiter several times,went with ap2 retainers and keepers on both exhaust and intake side with new skunk2 valve stem seals, but since I'm this deep I'm probably going to replace the head gasket too.
More turbo Mercedes’ Need a manifold with a innercooler for a turbo m113
We're you at
Nice video! Happy holidays! Please use stands when working under the car at least... be safe!
Y’all make it hard to follow your builds when you literally never post
If that was my rebuild I would have put some miles on it before reving so hard.....
No joke. He touched redline less than 10 miles on the engine....
I can recommend heavy gauge wires for jump starting. I made jump starter with 35mm^2 pure copper cables and with two batteries adding up to 1600CCA rating, also with clamps that have copper contacts and both contact of each clamp are connected. This setup is mounted on small handcart and is so capable, that cranking is exactly the same as it would be with fully charged battery in car and capacity is so big, that compression testing on many cylinders does not make cranking any slower
That "secret message" explains everything about the clown who previously worked on that car.....¯\_(ツ)_/¯
why do all of that just to reuse old timing components? i understand it may still be in good condition, but jesus christ why penny pinch now?
please make more videos, cant get enough of your content
You know it's good when they're a quality hammer marks
Do you re-sleeve it or just bore out the factory FRM liners?
Make a new video lol
@XF Motorsports,
Any chance we could get an update on the V12 500SEC? I stay up at night sometimes thinking about it.
Just need to dyno test the engine and put it back in
@@xfmotorsports pls need to see that
So glad I came across this video. Not many videos of the F2X motor being rebuilt, much less by a channel with this level of competency.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the stock cylinder walls FRM lined? Did the machine shop somehow restore the FRM lining?
Exactly! How did they address this?
I'm surprised you didn't go through the FRM cylinder lining when boring it .025" over. I'd be super worried!
Yeah like, did they just look over that part or.....? Its just bare aluminum walls now, yikes...
@@seymoarsalvageExactly!
reason #429 why i love this channel,...all the stoopit comments from armchair wrenchers who used to help daddy set the points in the family grocery getter....almost as much fun as the comments about the way the arc box was loaded for the fabrication series.... i need a martini now....
Hi Shehryar, where have you been man? I’m missing your no nonsense ingenuity!
that was a cool VTEC demonstration, first time I see that model
Are you okay mate ?
Damn bro 3 months??
You guys need help let me work for you guys I'll email you my resume I want to be your apprentice
What is the cost for a mild rebuild?
where is the project with w126 sec v12 biturbo????
Who did you use for the machine work on the s2000 engine
im doing a rebuild on my s2k ap1 right now and was wondering where did you get your pistons i can't find them anywhere
love watching a rebuilt on a f20c, also I got a big smile when you felt the power when driving it, I was like awesome, the Mercedes guy approves lol Glad to be subscribed to your channel, sad that he didn't add a supercharger, I will add one to my S2000 this year so it would of been instructional to see you do it up.. anyway, stay safe man, keep doing a great job in all your endeavors.
i have a built block you can check out if it happens again. i ended up k swaping my ap2
Reliable?
Yeah unfortunately the head had a VTEC issue I was not able to run the entire motor and it has less than 300 miles on it, was easier to k swap then find another f series at the time.. But it's a f20c h beam rods sleeved notched clearanced for the 2.4 crank with plugged oil squirters.
Never put car under load, when o2 sensor is broken, you will not feel correct power anyway and it puts stress on valves and on catalytic converter, if any exists
There are two o2 sensors. We don't know which one is the problem. It's fine to drive the car as normal if the secondary o2 is bad. I'll give these guys the benefit of the doubt that the code they got was for the secondary.
@@Jay-pf2cn The oxygen sensor is only referenced on cruise and not full throttle. Wont do any harm to beat on it with the CEL for o2 sensor. If it was a wideband sensor then thats different but pretty sure this age of s2000 used narrowband sensors.
@@Marks-Garagefailing or unsealed primary narrow band o2 will set bad fuel trim, and it will be used even on flat out. Only if it died completely no trimming is applied and obvious dtcs are set. "Open fuel correction loop due to load conditions" does not mean, that no trim is used, it means that no trimming is actually created in real time.
Secondary o2 sensor is useless, even if it makes any trim at all it will not be large in any case. It is just ment to indicate catalytic converter failure
Great video 👍I think the Honda will be getting a ECU adaptive upgrade
How much does it cost to rebuild this engine ?
This timing is nice and fancy even for Honda O.o
100k well deserved
ever heard of breaking the piston rings in before reving the hell out of it?
I haven't. How can a piston ring break-in?
@@chrisg4rr377 same as all other metal parts in contact break in
@@chrisg4rr377 maybe they are thinking about breaking in cams?
@@1one3_Racing i looked into it and it is a thing. Build up cylinder pressure and heat to settle them in quicker, otherwise you can get blow-by
@@chrisg4rr377 this wasn't the first time the engine was run though. I build race engines and after the start/cam break in you just start hating on it. There's no time to break anything in because you're building engines at 3am the night before the race.
Yo Adriel! :) Nice job! That VTEC display was pretty cool. It's funny seeing the size and design of the Honda 4cyl when used to the German V8's etc. Great engines altogether
always astounds me how disrespectfully someone can put together an engine... why open it up if you're going to put it back together with mismatched valve clearances! good thing you guys know how to set it right 🙏🏻
Just getting it good enough to sell, which is why it lasted a whole day. That was not a coincidence. Some people are such trash…
Wouldn't lapping the valves change the valve clearance ? Different amounts of crud removed from the seats and valves ?
I always thought these blocks can't be machined due to the bore coating and could only be sleeved
You can machine the bores up to .25mm
@@rolandotillit2867 the Nikasil coating is only 0.18mm thick
@@Realtime1501 It's not even nikasil, it's FRM, fiber reinforced metal. The closest thing to FRM is lokasil from Porsche. It's a carbon reinforced aluminum sleeve. On Hondas the FRM layer is ~.4mm and the service limit for machining is .25mm. I've worked on S2000's for 12 years. The piston skirts have an iron coating to reduce friction.
@@rolandotillit2867 i cannot find an engine builder w/I 100 miles of me to hone the cylinders. Any advice?
@@buickboii It's too expensive to do it properly. You need to use a torque plate, and before that, you have to bolt the head on, to spec. Then you have to turn that engine over on the stand and map the cylinder. Then you have to put on the torque plate, and tighten it until you have the same measurements as with the cylinder head. Then finally you can hone, and you need very strong expensive honing stones.
To get a proper plateau hone, you have to use diamond, or DLC stones, or SiC stones. Starting with 420grit to rough, then 600 to set your Ra, then 800 to set your Rpk. You're looking at ~6-8hrs of labor, that's ~$900 at a capable machine shop.
These motors are pretty strong stock and honestly even tho they’re called f series motors they’re closer in design to k series
16:26 Must of been a great man.
*Qwe-Tech System*
Awesome Hand writing, easy way is to take the subframe down and have the engine on first.
Exhaust valves on these engines are notorious for burning if the valve clearance is too tight.
@LAD Teknologies That's the high end, I go .012 on exhaust on DBW engines. I've dyno tested .008 and .010 all the way to .010 and .012 and there's 0 difference.
Every honda driving hitting 6000rpm and Weeeeetec kicking in
If yall used break in oil what kind did yall use
Just found your channel and am stoked to see a honda rebuild. Thanks.
i cannot find a f20c engine rebuilder they keep saying " machining" being an issue
Because of the FRM lined cylinder walls.
Need guidance on cylinder honing - 🙏🏻
Hi, my engine had a crank rebuild. After the rebuild the exhaust sound changed on cold starts. What could cause this? Valve adjustment?
Leak from exhaust manifold before it heats up ?
@@Tsnor150 not so sure still. I end up just live with it.
Did you say you have reused the timing chains? Don’t see the logic on a rebore 😬
Hey what happened to this channel?
That’s how you break in an engine
Where's the F1 build at?
Do the larger pistons technically make more power than stock?
Yes. It's why overboring is a thing. But .25 with no other mods wouldn't be noticeable
@XF Motorsports
Wait, how is an aluminum block with aluminum cylinders machinable? No iron sleeves, no alusil coating, just bare aluminum? Since when it was ok to do that?
@LAD Teknologies oh, did not know that.
@LAD Teknologies is this the proper procedure for FRM liners? With those oversize pistons are the liners bored or just honed?
@LAD Teknologies Do you do this work? If not can you throw me a link for someone who does for S2000. (mine running good at 100K, but planning ahead)
Did you reuse the head bolts?
I wonder would wear on the timing gears give any problems with increased backlash causing the cam timing to float on this high reving engine 🤔
Yes
got lucky not needing to deck the block or the head
Very surprised that you wouldn't do it anyway while the block was at the shop getting bored out....
wheres that miata now?
Curious - how is this engine holding up?
It's fine but the owner is still too scared to track it
Amazing!!
Glad to see you back!
Great video and great channel, love the rebuild, I also love that VTEC demonstrator thing you show at 13:35, would you sell that to me? Let me know
Trashed Honda valves are meant to be tested with 10W60, gasoline is not recommended as it leaks through valves, that are still fine
Also, head is straight if it seems to be straight and sand paper is fine to remove gasket, head bolts can be reused few times.
Also shell bearing clearances are stupid, just go with 10w60
This checklist of experienced Honda rebuilders goes on and on and on, they all know what they are doing
I mean, that you will get more experience, if rebuilded engine will blow and you will fix it again and again :>
The valves didn’t leak with gasoline so they were fine.
Headbolts usually are plastically deformed when torqued to spec (xx Nm + 90° for example) and cannot be reused after that.
Btw it’s not worth the risk imo.
Oops, you were being sarcastic of course.
I originally gravitated towards this channel because of all the Mercedes content. There’s not much content creators on the subject of Mercedes that actually makes decent videos. however this channel turned into a whole bunch of miscellaneous bs. You guys had something good going on. Stick to it.
It is a shame that the owner is gonna sell the car after the engine is rebuilt, just because he's had a bad experience with it. (Extrapolating from the fact he wants everything back to factory spec)
Naww. Factory spec means its a keeper. New owner wants it original. Someone flipping the car throws in a used motor.
I probably missed it in a past video, but what software do you use to design the cars you make?
Thank you for the great content.
Your Back.
my front
Just say no kids - to a stock engine rebuild
Andddd i’m subscribing.
Looking forward to seeing all of your videos.
what happened to your sl r107, F1, SEC projects?