Honda S2000 F20C1 Catastrophic Engine Teardown, User Error, Negligence, OR BOTH?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 มี.ค. 2023
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Wondering if I've torn down your engine? You can see all 115 teardowns here: • Blown Up Engine Tear D...
Today's patient is a first generation, or AP1 Honda S2000 Engine. An F20C1. 2.0L DOHC 4 cylinder that revs to the moon and makes nearly 120hp per liter. Considering this came out for the 2000 model year, that is pretty impressive. These engines do have their faults. Like many 4 cylinder Honda engines, they do use some oil when driven hard. Like every engine ever made, maintaining proper oil level is paramount to engine longevity. This particular engine had some less than desirable repairs on the the harness but I think the failure mode is not dissimilar to many failed engines we've seen on the channel. This engine was a late night marketplace find, and a total score for part value.
Why am I doing this? I own and run a full service auto salvage business in the Saint Louis area, and part of our model includes buying blown up or "core" engines as they're known in the industry, and tearing them down to salvage the good parts. We do not rebuild or repair any engines, we merely supply parts to those that do.
I hope you enjoyed this teardown, as always I love all of the comments, feedback, and even the criticism.
Catch you on the next one!
-Eric - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
I've never seen a S2000 engine this clearly. That is a beautiful engine.
My father in law owned one for 14 years. Loved that car.
My favorite thing about these engines is that they made a huge amount of power for their size and revved like crazy, and yet they use regular oil, they’re pretty reliable and they’re incredibly simple. It shows that with proper engineering, you can make a high performance engine without making it super delicate like the BMW S-engines and all of the Italian exotics.
Yes, but it also shows how holding on to a concept for too long will see diminishing returns.
When Honda introduced the V-Tec concept, everyone was blown away. And although Honda kept developing it somewhat, the competition didn't sit still and the VVT-L (Variable Valve Timing and Lift) concept simply outperforms V-tec.
I think it's fair to say that what put Honda ahead of the competition with their innovative solution, also has held them back to the point of falling way behind that same competition.
@@tjroelsma are you talking toyota’s VVL like on the 2zz or VVL in general? because the k20 and f20 are VVL engines, vtec and vvl might as well be the same dual cam grind system, just different branding. The b18c still was just as good as the 2zz years behind the release of the 2zz and the k20 blows it out of the water
@@tjroelsma im confused as to what you saying. VTEC is VVTL and iVTEC is VVTL plus VCT
@@scarea2691 VVT and VVT-L in general. Other brands use pretty much the same system, but because Toyota has the rights to VVT and VVT-L they have to use different names.
I notice that even with a sophisticated variable valve timing/lift system, they thoughtfully included some screw and locknut valve adjusters.
The S2000 was a hot little number - hot enough for Johnny Tran to win a sweet VW Jetta back in the day
Assuming you put 100 grand under the hood.
@@afrozen10-02 with overnight parts from Japan
Too soon, Junior.
@@Dave-ms3ri winning is winning
Slow clap for this comment and every reply. I live my life 1/4 mile at a time.
gets home from work (on a Saturday no less) with a fresh Domino's pizza and a tear down video. Perfect
This engine is a beauty of engineering - so well designed and built. It must have seen some serious abuse to grenade like that
Looks like about 8000 or so rpm got that one dude
@@g2skinny or a Honda bro decided to remove the rev limiter."yeah bro, my S2K can do 10k RPM easy."
@@g2skinny Stock redline was 9k
Misshift from 3rd to 2nd gear while revving 9k ... How to destroy high revving engines
Generally the bottom end holds together when the F20c is over revved, however the valve retainers are known to crack and cause them to drop valves, which does cause total failure if repeatedly over revved
They're not just nice, high-revving engines, they're also reliable. My F20C1 has ~180k miles on it.
Nice what oil change intervals you do? By the looks of the engine in the video the owner was fond of 8000+mile oil changes lol
I ran the absolute pee out of mine and it has been simply incredible. Mine is at about 145k and it sits in my driveway mostly for the last decade. I'm the guy that blew the transmission at high speeds, the engine now has a slight tick but I am also a very sensitive listener to my machines. Definitely the best car I purchased 24 years ago...
@@monikhushalpurigoing to say my intervals were the 7500 miles as per the owners manual... made it 145k so far hard use... my Duramax just passed 740k with 15k intervals. Seriously, new owners screwed up big time by thinking "Oh it's new, lets change the oil at 1k..." which did not let the engine break in as intended with the factory fill. They continued to burn oil and lack full power. Actually, it was found early on that these engines needed a blend of synthetic and dino oil for good compression because 100% synthetic was a bit to slick for the piston rings in a newer engine.
Wouldn’t even be surprised if this is the old engine from my brothers S2K. He money shifted it on the highway and it totally grenaded itself
You mean he grenaded it lol
@@mediocreman2 pretty much
The way Eric always comments on how beautiful the timing chains are sometimes has me worried about what he does with them after work
There is an enormous used parts market for every part.
@@sat_sonic yeah, I understand that part, but it’s the way he says it that makes me worried about what he does with the chains
Maybe him and his wife like to run a train on the chain? Or maybe it’s a chain bang? Or …..
Self-flagellation?
Ouch.
No kink shaming lol
These F20 series engines are very well engineered, reliable and pretty tough. So to see one blown up like this speaks volumes to how hard this engine was abused. They’re forgiving to an extent, this is what happens when you go over that limit.
Probably missed a downshift and went to 14000rpm for about 0.25 seconds.
@@bradcomis1066 The dreaded ‘money shift’ 💥😭
maybe a track day though no baffles in the oil pan and oil starvation could have caused this also all the stuff in the oil pump meant it was still running after the damage...
Mechanical over spin while going from 3rd gear position to 2nd instead of 4th. If you were to extract the DTC information from the E.C.U., you might possibly find 11,000 RPM failure!
Japonese engines are usually good, so my guess is as good as anyone's guess here. Low oil over revving it seems to fit the scenario, but there is that 1.1% chance of something else.
Incredible engineering went into this engine iteration. They were miles ahead of their competitors. Not an inch of fat on this engine, superior use of space.
I love watching your tear downs you are so explicit in your approach.
As a GM V8 guy. I appreciate how very well engineered and built Honda engines are. But I don't like to work on them. But I guess if you do the proper maintenance and don't overrev them. There's not much you need to do. I like the way the timing chain went to one gear that fed the 2 cam gears. Very robust looking design. It's a shame modern engines are so focused on fuel efficiency they have thin rings, plastic parts, and don't last as long
I think you are confusing Honda with GM. Honda does not require any major maintenance, they are really easy to work on, but you really shouldn't have any real reason to work on them because they are reliable, unlike GM
@@pashaga3695 While I would pick a Honda family car over a GM one for the most part, Honda did have its own duds. Ask any J35Z2 owners(there was even one teardown of it on this channel) or 98-05 V6 Accord auto trans owners and they will tell you.
American automakers just can't quite figure out 4 cylinders. They are all designed by either their Japanese(Ford with Mazda, Chrysler with Mitsubishi) or European(GM with Opel, Chrysler-Fiat with, well, Fiat) partners.
@@pashaga3695 I don't know, an open deck siamesed bore engine would never last in an industrial setup. The cams running in bare aluminum would spell a short death too.
The 350 GM engine was used extensively industrially, notably the Gleaner M combines. The Honda engine would never last in a caprice cop car, or a pickup truck, either.
The Honda works OK in a lightweight, low stress application.
@@randymagnum143 Agreed. Honda car engines are absolutely built for light cars, and only barely good enough to last in a light car. Really would not hold up too well in anything a whole lot higher stress.
Don't forget things like low tension piston rings, direct injection and open engine decks all in the name of worshipping the false gods of efficiency.
I felt the presence and tears of angels while you were tearing down this gift from the engine gods. There is an S2000 in my family so I've experienced what a sweet engine the F20 is. It's amazing. Really a shame that this happened. The oil rings all looked like they were done. The engine probably ran low on oil and the rod bearings bore the brunt. Very sad. I need a drink.
Makes sense. If you're sucking air from the oil pan, you won't be pushing bearing material up to that solenoid screen.
Yeah dude hate to see something that cool just run past the redline for no telling how long those are cool little engines too bad it died
@@g2skinny I don't think it was running all that fast, maybe oil starvation from cornering or just running dry suddenly wiped out an already marginal rod bearing. One or two good hits against the cylinder head probably cracked the rod or jammed the rings wider than the cylinder taper (older engines develop a taper) and on the next downstroke it popped without blowing the corners of the crown off. Nasty amount of damage for not having a lot of heat signs though, when that bearing went it was sudden and violent, "go" to "blow" in probably a quarter second.
F20 stock ran to 9k. Only the less interesting, but higher torque F22 revved to around 8k.
Most likely this was a mechanical over-rev. Based on the aftermarket VTEC solenoid and the K&N filter, that guy had no idea what he was doing. So no surprise that he money shifted it.
If only you would have removed that sweet k&n oil filter and cut it open to see how well it did or didn't work.
Had a 2007. This engine was special, but the transmission was literally the best manual ever made in a production car. Also, whoever put a crummy K&N oil filter on this was a fool. It requires a special Honda OEM filter to survive at 9k. I'm very surprised there are any S2000s that have depreciated to the point of sloppy maintenance.
They were pretty damn cheap back in 2009. I bought one for $13.5k USD that year.
Laughs in NP A833
First thing I noticed too. That and the after market Solanoid. This engine was not cared for properly
The original f20c had a factory redline of 9k rpm but in the AP2 generation was a stroked version, the f22c and it had a lower rpm in favor of some extra bottom end power. I would say that engine was 100% money shifted going from 2nd to 3rd. Its super easy to do plus the only way to rev the engine high enough to grenade a rod journal.
you're saying they put it in 1st gear instead of 3rd?
@@antiochiaadtaurum3786 usually it's money shifted from 5th into 2nd, instead of to 4th. I don't think it's possible to money shift into 1st, the synchros won't let you (unless you are a total tool and force it).
@@TheChannel1978 good point ,that would be one crunchy push into first
I would love to see a teardown of a volvo t5, t6, or xc90 v8 motor, especially a s60r motor. Love your videos. Keep up the great work!
I'd definitely like to see a Volvo 8444 V8 engine come apart. Its definitely an exotic engine. The one thing about Volvos, though, they employ the "excessive engineering" concept, so their engines might be a little more fragile than some others. BUT, a Volvo V8, 4.4 liters would be a good project. One thing I didn't know until recently is that this engine forms the basis of the Yamaha 4-cycle outboard marine engine, except its turned 90-degrees on its tail, and increased in displacement from 4.4 liters to 5.6 liters with a longer stroke crank.. Whatever. Go for it.
@@bobkonradi1027wanna talk about over-engineering? The 3.2 straight 6 in the XC90 is another great start 🤣🤣 have fun doing a "basic" serp belt on one of those!
the S60R/V70R engine is awesome. It as an issue tho. I might be mistaken but the block is still the 250hp t5 one, but due to the extra HP and torque, the stress might cause the blocks to crack. Both cars (S60R and V70R) benefit tremendously having a blockguard put in the motor and a reinforced transmission link from the gearbox to the rear transmission shaft, two of the weakest spots in those guys.
@@bobkonradi1027 The Volvo V8s were made by Yamaha so it makes sense.
When the VTEC kicks in yo’
Rest in pieces F20C1 you will never be forgotten
What a beautiful engine. The cylinder head is a thing of beauty, the ports are so nice. There’s no casting flash anywhere either.
Proper factory performance engine most aftermarket parts make it loose power
@dan4age Hondas good engines seem to all be like that. I got a dc2r ( for rally purposes) that had a set of aftermarket headers on it. When they cracked, a factory exhaust went back on as a stopgap measure and the dyno reported 10 more hp.
first thing I noticed is that they have the wrong oil filter on it. There've been some reports that aftermarket oil filters can cause issues on this engine due to the OEM ones having been designed for a very high flow rate that the aftermarket ones might not be able to keep up with
I like how you were like, "Hey! This isn't bad at all. It's in great condition!" Then just launch it across the shop. 😂
Never expected this engine! Nice find!
I'm on 122k, I'd be interested if you've had to do any major maintenance on yours in your time- needed to change bearings or anything?
I'm planning on doing rod bearings and valve retainers this year, as a bit of preventative maintenance
As someone who drove an AP2 S2000 for 7 years, I found this very interesting. Thanks for sharing it with us.
I always love the Honda teardowns, but the F20c1 was a real treat. What an amazing piece of engineering. Thank you for the great video.
I bought a 2007 S2000 that the engine failed shortly after I bought it. The first thing I found was crank end play of .125 and upon tear down I found thrust washers in the pan. Other damage was scored cylinders, three spun bearings, damaged crank, and damaged block. I suspect the previous owner neglected to check the oil level and ran it low. I was lucky to find a used engine for $4500 that came out of a 2007. I really love my S2000, it a thing of beauty to drive.
I really enjoy you aren't just destructively ripping things apart. You follow the proper procedure to loosen cams, heads and cranks ❤
"This part is in really good shape" [tosses part across shop]...
I'm a fairly recent subscriber, but love viewing the disassembly videos. Such a relief to watch someone working who really enjoys what they do combined with the gentle humour in the commentary, the first time I heard "disconnecting rod" nearly choked on my coffee. Also a relief to watch a channel that's not trying to sell us everything from VPN's to financial services. Yes of course you've a business to run and promote but it's done in a no nonsense, not shoved down your throat fashion. Love it 🎉🎉👍
I used to drive an AP2 S2K. Mine had the F22C1. Such a fun and responsive car. I hate to see them abused like this since they're so rare and beautiful. Thanks for posting this one!
Something about this channel makes me want to check my oil every Saturday.
And change it every other Saturday
Your vast knowledge of these engines and their components is amazing, a true technician in every sense. Bravo.
My favorite part is always when you say”oh, this is in pretty good shape”, then unceremoniously toss it… somewhere. It’s no longer in good shape. Lol.
Love the hybrid chain/gear driven cams. Had a Suzuki TL1000 motorcycle that used the same design, which made removing and resetting the cams easy, which was needed as it used a standard (for bikes) shim under bucket system for valve lash.
I noticed the gears are split with the teeth offset a bit. Couldn't see in this video, but in the TL there were springs tensioning the "split" gear to take up gear lash. It had a wonderful gear whine sound. That engine redlined at 10,500 RPM and it made 135 HP at 9,500 RPM. I believe the rev limiter kicked in at 11K. Bikes are awesome. The S2000 engine is quite motorcycle like in some respects.
Wow that’s a sad sight. Often touted as one of the best 4 cyl engines … it met a sad demise. Thanks for the tour.
Owned a B18C engine and they are a great motor from a great era.
I would love to see a W12
I second this!
It would be a 17 part series but I bet it would be fascinating too.
Cool that you could snag one of these motors for a tear down. I owned an 06 S2000 for 10+ years and it was dead reliable thru lots of miles and autocross runs.
As an old gear head who has never torn down a modern engine, I find your tear downs relaxing and very interesting. I've now watched quite a few, and was wondering what would be considered a serviceable/reusable part, like aluminum bolts from a merc bi-turbo, cam gears, "exotic" chains, etc. Thanks for doing a great channel!!!
Dammit! No dipstick foibles. Excellent engine for teardown. Cheers and thanks 👍
If I'm correct, the cams for the vtec in the early to mid 2000 decade were ground at the Mushahi Auto Parts plant in Battle Creek, Mi. That plant made certain gears for Honda automatic transmissions. They were made from round stock, chopped off by a press, forged, lathed and hobbed there, then to heat treat, then shot blast, then final lathing with special cutting inserts in the machines. They shot blasted the gears, but they would have been cleaner and better finished using vibratory bowls, like the Roto Finish machines, but what do I know?
Almost 2 hp per cubic inch. Impressive
As impressive as a CBR125?
@@Benzyl no. Cbr125 only has 1.75 hp per cubic inch, and only has a total of 14hp.
K&N filter killed it for sure!
what’s wrong with them?
Something small that I love about your videos is where you put the links for your websites. They're always out of the way, and never block anything that you would want to see. Some you-tubers just slap them up and have them covering stuff you're interested in. You don't do that. Thanks!
I literally wear that same sweater everyday at work too lol.
I've become known as the guy with the black Milwaukee hoodie on sites. 🤨
Love your videos though, it's always interesting to see a catastrophic failed engine being opened up. 👍
Always enjoy watching these tare downs! Engines I've never had the opportunity to work on.
Eric, with the S2000 engine it was all about NOT exceeding the piston speed, you really didn't want this baby to rev any higher than it was designed too. Things start to go badly if the rev limiter doesn't do it's job correctly. Thanks for showing us this beautiful engine in detail, and thanks for another nice video!
People spin k24's to 9500rpm. Granted they're built
@@brysonshires9742 You can do that with a racing K24, by balancing all of the components and also tearing it down frequently to check your bearings, gaps and tolerances. I advise against doing that to a Built-for-the-Street K24, unless someone else is paying for your engines.
@@ericecklund676 I agree.
@@ericecklund676 yeah, I don't care "what other people are doing" I have gotten 100k miles so far of reliable daily driving supercharged enjoyment out of my k20. I only raised the rev limiter by 300rpm and I never really go that far anyways, I usually stick to the stock 8300 if I'm winding it out.
Other people can blow up their engine or wear them out prematurely revving the nuts out of it on the street.
@@volvo09 I have nearly 100k on my NA K24, in my Honda Accord. It's a fun grocery getter.
Happy Saturday! Really intrigued to see this one.
We love the carnage!! Thank you!! Keep up the good work!!
I wish Honda made an inline 6 version of this engine (or the K series). That would be awesome!
Another great video Eric! I've learned a lot watching you tear down all kinds of different engines. I know you don't normally do VW/Audi engines, but I'd love to see a blown up VR6 get torn down!
my car!!! i’ve been asking for this one for forever!!! thank you so much!!
I really miss the simplicity of those engines compared to what’s out now plus the good reliability.
I miss my S2000's, both of them, a 2002 and 2006.
Again, nice editing. It keeps the action interesting.
Very cool video, I've always wanted to see that motor torn down. Thanks again for all of your hard work, it's super entertaining!
Love hearing your philosophy on auto makers leaving hp/to on the table. Much respect to the Honda engineers who designed and built this with that in mind.
Wow as an s2000 (AP1) owner to b specific it is a treat to see how my motor looks , thnk u .
That oil pan design itself shows how well Honda built this engine !
Great to see S2k engine finally! I hope I don't money-shift (over-rev) and destroy my engine. My S2000 is still strong with 250k miles while driving hard (redline every gear) like I ride my motorcycle.
And yes, both S2000 and cbr1000rr seem to have same torque numbers...
Gooney....your luck will run out! Most likely through the side of the block.
I like how you tear down engines like it's storytime.
Just wanna take a second to tell anyone who might be curious: the guys at importapart are grade A. Highly recommend checking with them if you're looking for something off the wall, or even something simple. Had an inquiry and response all within a couple hours. They didn't have the specific part I was looking for (headlight assembly for a Cadillac ETC, which are hard to find in good condition), but the customer service was excellent- to the point where they will be one of my go-to places for used parts from now on. Seriously, give them a shot
Id love to see a teardown of the Volkswagen 5 cylinder 2.5L motors from the previous generations of Golfs and Jetta, do you see many of those engines?
And the VW VR6 engine.
There are plenty of those videos out there…
Never underestimate the holding strength of Hondabond. Without question it's one of the best RTV's on the market. Thanks Eric for another entertaining teardown.
Honda seems to specialize in things with way more interior space than they should have (like that oil pickup) and engines that are designed at 90% or more of their ultimate potential that'll run forever if you treat them right.
This engine was designed to run at high RPMs, but with any I.C.E., the more you rev it, the more likely you are to damage it. Great video!!!
This is where the quality of your oil choice really plays a role, most of these owners use cheap mobil1 and etcetera! Trust me!
Intake ports look amazing given everything the engines been through. A beautiful engine to look at and review.
I learn so much from this show
My college buddy had a Prelude with the same engine & man was it a fun car! It was a perfect car for school: MINIMAL MAINTENANCE BESIDES OIL CHANGES! He sold it with 350K miles & I was tempted to buy it, but I knew how it was driven & who knew what was left in it. Regardless, it was neat seeing this video as it was a trip down memory lane for sure!!!!
I enjoy watching you take apart these engines but the one thing I always think is that you must have the most incredible collection of bolts and fasteners in the world
Reminds of my 2001 s2000 man I miss that car!
Another great teardown video. Thanks
Awesome video Eric.
That is a very small oil pump
Much love my brother, reminds me of the show "Scared Straight". Finding out what that little red line on the tack means can be very expensive.
Thank you! My wish list is complete now.
These engines are the closest you can get to having a high strung bike engine in a car. High revving, light, makes good power for size. Pretty sure the s2000 was a nimble chassis as well. Granted our bikes are 200+ BHP nowadays and only .9-1L while revving to 14k+ so not exactly the same, but same idea. Light and tons of reliable N/A power. Very cool engines and cars. Cool to see what makes one tick👍
If you want the bike engine in a car experience that's what the Mazda rotaries are for.
Great job as always 👏
Dude I wasn't expecting this one!
I’ve always wanted to see inside of a blown up s2000 engine. Well done sir!
Love this video. I wanted to see a teardown of an F20C!
"I don't think it has any rod knock, but it may not have any rods" Love it!!!!😀
I like how you disassembled this one like "Come on. Old Gill really needs these parts."
I recently felt that it was Saturday, that your video was coming, and that I had no beer. Well, too late now. I have never watched this channel sober before.
We love it when you disassemble unique engines and not the usual stuff. What we'd really like to see is you import a broken Ford Barra I6 from Australia, they are dirt cheap over there and you'd prob get on for little above import cost. I was over there for Summer Nats in Canberra in Jan and super high hp turbo Barras were everywhere. With few mods those I6s make well over 1000hp, reliably and we'd really like to see a standard one torn down to see what makes them so special and your opinion on them after the pulldown.
One of my favorite cars! That motor revs like crazy but you can drive it like a civic. Hope to own one again someday
Yeah, thankfully I got to drive one once when I was working at a dealer. It feels like a small displacement sport bike engine in a way... Meaning if you don't downshift a few gears and rev it out it's not really going anywhere, and the power builds as the revs climb.
Very fun car, very reliable car.
That was some interesting Honda potpourri in the oil pickup.
You haven't tried to sneak "Cam the crack caps loose." on us in quite a while. I'm almost disappointed.
This is a wonderful video.
Such an incredibly simple yet well engineered engine, yet it makes so much power. Honda makes the best motors in the world.
A phrase normally heard on I Do Cars : "oh no that is not supposed to be there!"
Great video, very well done
Love how high revs this engine would do. Great car.
Thanks for the video take care of yourself and family and be Blessed ❤️❤️ it. Almost bought one of those cars 05-06 but didn't.
Hey peckawood, you a real cornball. I do love it.
What’s fascinating to me is how there is so many variations of an engine. And how at its core for example a 4 cylinder engine is basically design the same as the next but one outputs more power then the other and so forth. It’s pretty cool to think about how manufacturers all took the same concept and changes it just enough to make it their own engine design even if the concept is the same as the other engine. Mechanics is pretty cool stuff to me. But what do I know. I’m just an IT guy. Haha
i have a f20b the fwd brother to this. I pulled it apart - so different to the c. cam belt, steel sump, oil pump on the front of the crank... so many differences
Whoa! Didn't see this one coming.
I had a 02 S2000 with that same engine. Looking forward to seeing what it looks like, and the factory redline was 8900 on it (yes I hit that quite a bit on mine).
Your Chanel is awesome brother
I love how you say "oh no" like you were gonna put it back together lol
Loved the design of the upper end of this motor.
I have known these engines for years , most do massive mileages at high revs with regular oil changes at 12,000 miles with fully synthetic oil. Like yours I have seen a couple that have been unloved and have black tar in them. The outcome was pretty much the same. Mine at 175,000 miles going strong.
Why isn’t anyone talking about the amazing F1 inspired head design. I think the cam gear design on these engines is so incredibly cool
Loved this. I owned 2 S2000’s back in the days before I had kids. An ‘01 AP1 and an ‘04 AP2. Wonderful engines, wonderful cars.