Running a Distortion Pedal in the Effects Loop?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 มี.ค. 2018
- In this video I'll demonstrate a question I hear quite a bit:
"Should I run the distortion into the effects loop?"
"Should I use the pedal as the preamp and run it into the return, or use it like a regular pedal in the loop, using the amp's preamp?"
Tl;dw version is that it's two different sounds, but both can sound good. I actually preferred using it as the preamp with the Orange personally.
Impulse Responses used were from Celestion, amp sound taken with a Two Notes Captor into the DAW. - เพลง
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Timestamps
1:18 guitar -> wampler -> amp input
3:21 guitar -> wampler -> amp fx return
7:33 guitar -> amp input -> fx send to wampler -> fx return
As unlikely as it sounds the boss metal zone sounds pretty good in the effects loop. If you don't believe Ola Englund made a video on it
Kirk Windstein of crowbar uses it as a clean boost. Not a bad pedal it can just be used wrong.
LOL I saw that earlier
Ds2 also works really well there
@@ccandrew111 uh how do you set the ds2 up in the FX loop? If I put it there sounds like the classic "can of bees" even with the tone dialed way down.
ilcuggino I used in my Jim root terror’s loop, sounded good there. Remember to only plug into fx return as that is how you bypass the preamp tubes
I like that you take the time to explain exactly how the cables are connected, and into what input and what output
I started running my ts9 direct into my effects return and it sounds fantastic. Thanks for posting this. I have been looking for others showing the same with other “preamps”. Thanks so much
I just tried this on my 6505+ tube combo with a 30 dollar behringer metal pedal. It got rid of all the murky sound, I had tried a noisegate yesterday but the feedback was unbearable. Absolutely try this, take any metal pedal and play through the return hole if you have one. Today was the first time in my life I was ever happy with my guitar tone
I feel like all the 6505 needs is an EQ pedal. You can take out some of the fuzz from the game channel by scooping the med slightly, and then that’s my perfect guitar tone.
I'm so glad I was fortunate enough to get an ADA MP-1 back in 2008. Thanks for the video!
You can put whatever you want into whatever you want. I believe the United States Supreme Court was clear on this. But seriously, Prefer overdrive, distortion, fuzz, octave, and wah effects directly into the amp input.
Unless you're using a metalzone, which is like a preamp pedal, use that in the effects loop
Besides a geriatric that poops him self on national television… sorry here in Texas we don’t play by them laws time and modulation in the fix loop only… real men hit the front end of their amp like Islamic men and their wives
Supreme courts ruling on this was groundbreaking and has made a huge impact on case law.
Indeed. Thankyou for the gift of monday morning tone.
Thanks Brian. I've use my Black '65 in the FX loop and it's so good as a tone shaper
Thx! Brian, I still play your “triple-wreck” dist. pedal--absolutely love that beast!
Hello ADA MP-1. Nice seeing my classic, crispy friends once in a while.
Love the Greg Marra shirt! He was my guitar teacher. Thanks for the sacrilegious demonstration! Enjoy seeing gear used “incorrectly”.
i quite like the honestly in these videos. We see the best way of using stuff and also things that dont really work and dont sound as good! its refreshing because im always messing with my set up and tryng things that dont sound as good! The ideal pedalboard set up takes so much experimentation to find!
This helps a lot. I've been considering building a very small el84 amp with just a single 12ax7 gain stage (basically just the power amp section) as a pedal platform. I think it will work.
Thank you....very informative...I've been having issues trying to figure out how to go into the effect loop...
I have been doing this with my mxr full bore metal pedal I feel that it takes the "overly compressed" tone out of it and makes it sound huge! That's played regularly on my cheap orange crush por 120 for almost 2 years. No problem with the amp. Thanks for the great video!
Which setup?
Star of the show: Cat
A human with good taste. Refreshing.
@@univibekitty3352
These have run out of production unfortunately.
Finally. I kept seeing everywhere people telling you shouldn't do it, but no proof as to why over the years.
A friend of mine used to take lessons from Greg Howe. He'd use one of those old Johnson modeling amps in his home rig (this was 15 years or so ago) and would apparently always have a tube screamer on the FX loop.
Love the wear on the fret board! About a million miles worth if use lol
Nice sounding distortion!
Great demo Brian, thanks for taking the time to run dirt thru all of the options - I liked the Pinnacle thru FOA but I also enjoyed the 2nd option, guitar into pedal input and output to "effects return" - it seemed to give a very rich sound with some reduced highs that might work for some bright guitars/pickups or heavier music styles.
Here's my 2 cents: I've had a Marshall VS100 since '97 and I was never able to use distortion straight into the input: ALL pedals sounded really shrill, noisy and downright unplayable. A Tube Screamer sounds fantastic, but distortion pedals sound abysmal. Last night, I tried the effcts loop with this Mesa-like distortion and boom: it sounded great.
Bottom line is: some amps don't take pedals as well as others so do yourself a favor and experiment.
I had the same problem with my 100 watt valvestate head. Every gain pedal sounded awful into it. And that amp only has one preamp tube! 🤣
Distortion straight into an Orange sounds bad in my opinion. The Fx loop handles them much better, but with time effects it’s not so great…
I've recently started doing this. Probably depends on the pedal, but I use a master vol amp. Master and volume on equal output, and it definitely sounds the best OD I've used. Bit like that bitey early 70s rock sound.
Amazing video! Any plans for making this with other pedals or connecting them straight into the audio card? (Like Johan Segeborn did in a video with Plexidrive)
Also I own a Tumnus pedal, and I love it.
Great video!
What pedals do you recommend for the effects loop?
Great video! Would I be able to split the signal of the guitar and half of it going through the pedal to the effects return and half of it through the amp's preamp? If yes would I need a clean boost to much the volumes?
I like to run an MXR Micro Amp (clean boost) turned about 1/4 - 1/2 of the way up in my effects loop just to push the power tubes into some distortion (sounds really good) without having to have the amp cranked way up... I have tried using some other dirt/drive/boost pedals like this, but most of them really don't sound very good at all in the loop.
Hello, A question that has made me hesitant regardless of whether good or bad sounding can I damage the amp by plugging in a gain pedal,overdrive or distortion in the loop.
The pedal fully in the FX loop had a somewhat "squashed" tone. I suspect that's because it's well isolated from any kind of interaction with the guitar's pickups. And also being fed from a comparatively low impedance source (which it wouldn't be especially designed for). Going into the FX return is a more useful setup at times, getting the tone of the pedal without the colouring of the built in preamp.
When I used to do local shows and "lend" my amp to other bands on the bill if the gat player was using a pedal (most often a Metal Zone!) I would encourage them to go into the the FX return on my 5150. That way they wouldn't need to mess up my settings! lol And they were usually happy with this too.
The Metal Zone is really quite the dark horse when used as a Preamp, as opposed to standard stompbox. There's a whole mess of videos exploring this, and I must say I was taken somewhat aback of how well it worked when I tried it myself.
Hey, Brian. I used to do pretty much exactly this, but with a little more flexibility. I have a Fender Champ25SE, which is an early 90s hybrid amp--with an IC version of a classic Fender preamp, and a tube power amp starting with a 12ax7 phase inverter. To my ears, the clean channel is super clear (good), but maybe a tiny bit too clean, while the dirty channel is way too loud and incurably muddy--pretty much useless as is. So I basically used a Boss LS-2 to switch between the clean preamp in one loop (LS-2 Send A> Fender input, Fender FX loop send> LS-2 Return A) and a Sansamp GT2 preamp pedal (in LS-2 loop B), then running back through my delay into the FX loop return. Sometimes I added the recovery half of a Vox 947 Valve Effects Buffer (a kind of poor man's Dumbleator) to warm everything up just a tad before going into the return. The negative is all the cables running back and forth between pedals and the amp, but it sounded good. If I were doing something like this today, I'd probably use something like an Alembic FB-2 clone pedal as the clean preamp, and a Tube Driver as the dirty.
Hi Sorry I am quite new to this. I have the following question: “My amp has preamp section with EQ followed by Reverb knob, FX knob and delay knob ... if i use a pedal into FX loop will it bypass the just the preamp with EQ or the whole thing including Reverb, FX and Delay stages?” 2nd Question: “Is FX loop send and return high Z or low Z input / output? I own low Z Audio DSP processor that I can use to play with FX loop but I need to know if I need to go via DI box before I mess things up ?” Thank you
I want to try it later... Thanks 🙂
Great video as usual.
Do you have any videos of overdrive or distortion into ss amps such as the quilter??
Where does one write to ask you a question about your overdrive and distortion products??
Brian@wamplerpedals.com
Wampler Pedals Thanks my friend.
I don't write much for public display, but I find this guy has some helpful hints and not just doing a video because he can. I miss my loop on my Fender. My Orange (will eat all the gain thrown at it) I just wish mine had an FX loop , but things change. I need my Fender rebuilt, and that ,being unemployed makes it impossible to fix ,now. Better times will come. The Fender is for all round FX. Where the Orange was bought for straight shredding(and it does)But, at this time it is holding it's own with in line pedals and a noise gate.This is not a commercial for Orange or Fender. I am 60 years old. The Orange is the first non Fender I have ever owned , and it is killer.Has limitations, but it will melt your face.
Thanks for making this video. I want to try this with my Plexi Drive Deluxe.
The 1st thing that caught my eye was the Awesome Legendary ADA MP1. Still, have 1 alive and kicking since 1992 when I 1st got it but it's a 3 Tube Mod now circuit ordered from the awesome guy MarshallJMP.
I think the Effects Return is better for clean tones without flourish. I tried to add a relay to switch between the Input and the Effects Return of my Mesa Boogie .50 Caliber+, but I got buzzing issues on my distortion channel. Do you know how to make that kind of switching properly?
Thanks! You just turned my single channel amp into a 2 channel. Sort of. I'll explain, had no idea that I could run, guitar->pedal->FX loop return=sound (please excuse the repurposing of the greater then sign) but tried for S&G and WOW. I am not sure how it sounds in your situation because through youtube everything is garbledgooked but when I run the amp like that it is much, MUCH more touch sensitive and the tone/sound is, the best way I can describe it is more pure. Immediate perhaps is more relatable.
Anyhow I am going to run guitar->AB box->pedal group A/pedal group B-> A into the amp input/B into the FX return. Viola'! 2 channels! Pedal group B includes a TC Elec. Spark mini which will basically serve as a preamp. Interestingly wah has to go into amp input, would not fly in the FX loop, I'm guessing either the wah's output Z is high and/or the FX loop input Z is low, or a combination. Either way I think this will be very awesome, waiting on the AB box, normally I'd just make it but I picked up a mint DOD 270 that was less then me buying the parts.
UPDATE: This DID NOT work, bummer, glad I didn't spend too much to figure it out but when you are plugged into the FX loop in the amp input is muted. So it is one or the other, not both. In hindsight it would seem if something that cool would have worked probably someone brighter then I am would have figured it out already.
What makes a pedal ok to receive guitar and/or line level signals? Or is it specific to Pinnacle and the likes? Likewise, how ok is it for the the power section to receive guitar level signal out of a drive pedal instead of the line level from the pre amp? Thx :)
Thank you so much for your great vids AND pedals! I’d like to ask you : is the any point in running an overdrive pedal in front of a transistor amp? I’ve heard that that was a common practice during the end of the 80s and the trend of transistor guitar amps...
Ioannis Tziallas
I'm no expert, but I can offer a couple of possibilities. If the SS pre-amp sounds like crap (and apparently, many of the ones on 80s amps did), and you could bypass it with an awesome-sounding pedal, then you'd sound that much better. Also, some SS amps sound good when clean, but not when distorted (separate problem from above); so you could just use the pedals for distortion. However, this second possibility is obviously different from what the video was intended to demonstrate.
If you’re using the pedal for distortion in front it’ll be fine. If you’re using the pedal to drive a hot level into the amp to use it to try overdrive that it’ll get solid state clipping and may sound horrible. If it’s designed to soft clip though it’ll just sound like the SS amp overdriven though. So it might sound cool, might sound horrible, depending how you use it and what amp it is. But if you keep the output level not too hot and are using pedal crunch then there’s no reason it should sound inherently bad.
I can't take my eyes off the ADA PreAmp sitting in the background. Mine's broken and would love to hear the sound of one again ;)
Probably never happen he never answers comments...boo on you Brian
OMG!! Please drop the volume of the random music tracks in the video. Nearly blew my eardrums out. (concerned headphone user here)
Same. Hell of a volume jump I didn't expect.
Hey Jared. Bob the video guy here. My apologies, concentrated on our guitar audio and overlooked that music hit. Will be more mindful of that in the future.
Thank You!! Appreciate the response. Love the videos otherwise!
consider getting a nice speaker maybe ... i never have this problem, just a suggestion
U4RIA - Coolguy8623 Not always in a position to watch using speakers. There's a high percentage of people watching with headphones. I'm looking out for those people.
I lose the reverb on the amp doing this. I add a dd3 at the the front. the direct out (dry signal) on the delay pedal and run it to the input on the distortion pedal then into the effects loop. Then run the other output from the delay into the front of the amp. Using a metal zone to do this actually gave it a lot more transparency at lower gain. A lot more useable.
THAT's an ADA MP-1 on top of your Rockerverb and I'd like to know your thoughts and see if you have any mods done to it - essentially all the Wampler-ness on my favourite preamp of all time. Please Mr. Wampler.
I'm using the effects loop on my Marshall to run a chorus and delay, using the send and return and also want to use the return only to run a Boss DS-1, without having 2 returns can I split the return using a 2 into 1 cable and if not is there any other solutions you could advise me on? Thank you!
Great idea !
I run my EQD Acapulco Gold in the FX loop. Not running direct to the FX return mind you, but in the FX loop. I tried it because when I read "power amp distortion" I thought that's what they mean, run the sucker in your FX loop. It sounds MASSIVE. I tried running it in the front of the amp, and it sounds kinda Rat-esq fuzzstortion-y. In the FX loop, it's huge. The clean preamp of my amp is shaping the tone and the pedal is distorting that sound, so I'm pushing more dynamics, articulation and whatnot through it. I don't think it will ever leave my board, and I don't think I'll ever run it into the front of my amp.
Just because it's an effect pedal doesn't mean it belongs in the effects loop. I had to explain that to the bass player in a band for which I used to play who insisted on putting his wah pedal into his effects loop and constantly wondered why it never deally cut through or why the sweep wasn't every pronounced when activated. Yes they will function in the loop, but not to the level to which they were designed.
Brett Marlar true but alot of these distortion pedals are setup more to be used as a preamp like as if was slaving another head into that amps power section
Tom Morello uses his wah in the FX loop in both RATM and Audioslave. In addition to every single one of his other pedals, even the whammy. Dirt was a cranked marshall
@@Psyfonify the real answer is always in the comments
* insert bass player joke here*
what about if its a multi effects pedal that has distortion, as well as phaser, delay, reverb, flanger...etc. would it be best on the front of the amp using 2 cables or through the effect loop using 3 cables?
weird electronic dilemma that I'm curious about:
I have a two channel tube amp (Jet City JCA50) with an FX loop. Most pedals work fine in the FX loop; however if I put a high gain pedal in the FX loop it works fine on the clean channel, but when I kick into the dirty channel it gets a massive volume drop. If i turn the drive pedal off the dirty channel behaves normally. So far it has only occurred if I put a high gain fuzz or overdrive pedal in the FX loop. Not looking for a solution (it all works fine if I run drive pedals through the input), just curious as to what may cause it to happen.
Any educated guesses or theories?
I'm a Bass player, and I love distortion. Have a 2 channel amp with independent fx loops for each channel. Used to plug the bass into the front end and run my OCD into the FX loop of channel 2 (used the "send" as input and output to "return") and left channel 1 completely clean and then blended the signals so I could get distortion without losing low end. It sounded good, definitely had to tweak the tone controls and I still lost low mids in the overall mix so ... Now I've got better bass distortion pedals so no need of going into the loops.
I know this post is old, but I've found tube overdrive pedals (such as Kingsley, tube driver, etc) work well placed in the loop post the preamp & pre your dly/rev. It's that cascading type thing like Boogie or Dumble. They have the clean preamp cascading into the OD. Most ODs are not meant to be post the preamp by design. I feel like the tube ODs take the higher gain stage push of the preamp better by compressing smoother when hit. I even had my Dumble amp back in the day push my Groove Tubes Trio in the loop for more gain that my Dumble ODS didn't have. Sounded great.
I use distortion pedals all the time straight into the preamp. I do notice a loss in the treble frequencies, but I compensate with a 10 band eq to bring the highs back in instead of having to dime the highs on the pedals.
I've seen some of you'r schematics (meaning dirt pedals), and for the most part i see jfets, which is somewhat unusual since most modern drive circuts (at least the ones that i've seen, but i've seen a lot), use opamps, and i personally prefer transistors over opamps in a drive pedal scenario. So i'm wondering what you'r thoughts are on transistors vs opamps in that case?
I use all different types of gain stages. There are a few that uses Jfets both as normal voltage amplification as well as in a mu-amp arrangement, but take the Triple Wreck or Dracary's - those are both opamp based, as is the Euphoria, dual fusion, paisley deluxe, etc. It's not that i prefer one over the other, it's more about what I'm wanting out of each particular sound/feel. Both have their application and use, so I look at it a lot like if someone asked me if I like a spoon or a fork better... just depends on what I'm wanting to eat ;)
The distortion pedal is increasing the noise of the preamp out, I'm getting the same thing thru my cab (I have a rockerverb100). I'm getting the same high pitch noise too. Do you think maybe putting a noise suppresor between the preamp and distortion would solve this?
could you do a video on ur latest ego compressor pedals?? I saw a video with tosin abasí and he mentions that ur ego compressor is different from any other compressor that he has used... he said it is like opening a door wide open rather then closing and squishing the signal... if that makes any sense... Cheers.
The bridge pickup in that Tele sounds great. Does anyone know what make/model it is?
What about from overdriven channel to Distortion in effect loop. Does it similar with putting overdrive over distortion in front of the amp?
OMG KITTEN😍and... fx return for me, I'm always using that method when playing with a distortion pedal.
Have you tried using the plexi-drive deluxe in the effects loop?
There was a bit of volume levels issue in a few parts had to really crank up the volume to hear you and then BLAMMO (Batman sound FX) louder guitar, normally I'd not care but unfortunately I live in an apartment and the neighbors have Bionic hearing. LOL
I usually run the EQ flat on the amp with very slight adjustments for the room etc. ( a DV Mark S.S. Guitar Amp) using the boost from the pre-amp.
Question how would a buffered output into the FX return behave ? I have a Chameleo MK2 Loop switcher with buffered out.
Next time you in Indy I'll buy the 1st round at the Pub. : )
I have an amp with a very full crunch channel and a thin lead channel. I've thought of using something like a bogner extasy blue and ignoring the lead channel or a high cut for when im using the lead or even going from a 4 ohm to an 8 ohm speaker to just compress it down a bit. Thanks to this vid I probly won't run a pedal as a pre amp
Was that an ADA MP-1 I spied behind you sitting atop that Orange head at the beginning of the video ? I still have mine collecting dust somewhere, every metal head had one in the 80's, shed a nostalgic tear.
Kudos Brian, thanks for mythbusting!
I did this on a Carvin X100b with a cheapo DOD YJM pedal and got the sickest Randy Rhoads-ish mayhem distortion. I really didnt think it would work but it did.
Hi Brian! What would you say to making a noise gate? o.O
Just tried this with a BE pedal into Return of my Origins 50 and nothing 😵. Blah.
This demo youve done sounds Great! Which Tele bridge pup are you using?
I do use a Pinnacle in effects return and I do prefer it this way.
Awesome Bro!! Keep the Info Coming!! Gues Gary Vee has put you on the right track!! 🎸🎶🔥🤘🏻
I use amp-in-a-box style pedals in my loop, right before my delay, with the gain low-ish on the pedal and just-before-breakup on the amp channel. I find the pedal works as eq coloring effect well, but the dirt characteristics change a little bit, enough that I can live with it. If I also run another dirt pedal in front of the amp with a bit higher gain, then too much gain/distortion stacking makes the tone mushy in the lows, drowned/non-defined in the mids and overall compressed badly like the speaker was crapping out. In the end I like each dirt flavor separate, and just don't play them stacked.
single coils ahhhh!!!!! me want humbucky sounds. still I learn many much from you Wampy man.
Hi, can i run an overdrive pedal in the fx loop for solo boost ?
This raises a question for me- how would an “amp in a box” pedal sound in an effects loop? I gather it would be similar to running a dirt pedal into the loop. I have a small, extremely clean tube amp based on a Fender Blues Jr, and wondered what running a pedal like the WIIO (a Hiwatt style pedal) or a SansAmp English Muffy would sound like.
you've got yourself a new fan and subscriber! much respect. I'm picking up an *Orange CR120H* today to play thru my *_Marshall MG4x12 120W Cabinet_* - I never wanted any pedal accept Electro Harmonix (they seemed more vintage and analog-- Billy Corgan preceded them so I was going to stick with them (keep in mind i've never been able to afford any pedals accept a piece of shit _Boss DS-1_ back when i was in a high school jam band -- but now i want NICE *Delay & Reverb* with different room/space options to choose from as well as delay options (reverse/ping pong/triplet/warped etc)- distortion pedals drove me nuts because i had NO CLUE how to pick the one that's right for me since i cannot test them before buying (Guitar Center doesn't exactly carry many options in-store)- but this Pinnacle is now my goal- I WAS going to Invest in the Revv G4 distortion/overdrive since it's like 150-250 in price and sounds great but you may have changed my mind.
*CAN YOU PLZ review the Revv G4?? with the Orange head? that will be the set up i'll have (and marshall cab) if i buy the -Revv G4 (it's a red pedal, for reference:)*
Revv Amplification G4 Distortion & Overdrive Pedal www.amazon.com/dp/B07MVRLPFW/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_GHJdDbKFR2CQ1
I have solved that oscillation with putting a boss pedal bypassed in front of pinnacle. Using it with an IR loader direct to headphones as a bedroom practice solution. haven't tried the triple wreck and sovereign yet
Theres tons of viids out there telling me its wrong to use my mt2 pedal as a preamp... I have no effects loop on my blonde blackstar amp. Any solution for this?
Just wondering...if you have long(ish) cable runs to your effects loop, would it make sense to add a buffer to the path?
Depends on what pedals are in the loop. Many pedals are low impedance output anyway (they buffer) so you may not need one there
Will a procorat 2 and big muff op amp sound good plugged into the effects return with a cab/amp sim?
Aww I love that cat.
I am confused. I have a 2 channel combo with a send/receive loop. Can I put my amp sim pedal in that loop or do I have to keep it on my pedal chain that goes into the input?
I’d go loop.
Just tried to plug my paddle through the back of the amp through the return and plugged my guitar into the pedal no sound only works if I trick my amp by plugging a jack in the front as well.....anyone know why?
Biggest thing I found was my FX loop level was far too hot. Fine for most pedals but when it comes to drives it made them stupidly overdriven with the high level going in the front of the pedal being a lot bigger than a guitar, then the whole thing had a volume drop as the pedal couldn’t make the gain back up to the normal FX loop level. I could turn all my channel volumes down a *lot* and the master up, but then I might get more tonal losses if I’m not driving the FX loop cable run as hard, so I gave up the drives in the loop idea v quickly. 😕
I finished building an amp a few months ago, and I added an effects loop. I found I had to attenuate the signal a lot before pedals in the loop stopped clipping. The end result though is that I have a slightly less distorted OR120 clone, but it sounds great with fuzz and other dirt pedals, and also does a nice clean
Did you attenuate by installing some resistors?
In an already built amp, can I atteanuate by using an volume drop pedal as the first one in the loop and then using another for last to bring the volume back up?
need a way to swap this but I think I would need 2x LS-2s instead of 1 while still keeping a reverb pedal after it
Is that fretboard dirty or is it just worn down from years of use?
It’s relic’d to look and feel old, Whitfill guitars make them that way
Ok, let's back up a bit for some newb questions. Power amp distortion sounds different than just pre amp distortion......right? I assume guys like EVH were diming their amps to get power tube distortion. (ie: the brown sound) Running boost into front, overdrives the pre, causing it to compress and distort and then having that sound amplified by power tubes, which are not necessarily adding own distortion. A true distortion pedal into front, sends an already clipped, distorted signal to pre, which may or may not drive that section to distortion, and then onto clean power amp.
So, if you add clean boost into fx loop in front of power tubes, and you push them into distortion, and does the pedal add to the signal form amp pre.......or bypass and become the pre? The vid seems to imply the latter.
I would think if you could kick the power tube into clipping at low volume, that could be very cool. Or is the only solution to overdriven power tubes at sane volumes a power soak like an OX Box?
Please forgive me for being an idiot, but it just seems like a lot of moving parts here.
joseph humphrey think of your amp as two “boxes”... a preamp and power amp. The loop acts like an insert between them. So what comes out of the preamp is then affected by the loop, which then sends it all to the power amp section. So the reason people put time based effects in the loop is so they won’t then be saturated by the preamp section. Your not bypassing the preamp at all, by using the loop, just adding another stage in the signal flow, between the preamp and power section. The time based effects don’t get distorted by the preamp, but they do include the entire signal that was handed off to them from the preamp via the loop, then the loop sends the whole signal (guitar->od/dist/wah etc->preamp->loop w/delay/reverb etc->power section->speaker cab) to the power amp and finally out your speakers...Does that help?
A great way to learn about amp construction and signal flow without risking electric shocks is the free to download app Bias Amp (and grab it’s brother JamUp Pro while your at it for using the bias amps with virtual pedals/performance etc). Bias Amp allows you to tweak each stage of a virtual amp, giving you incredible insight into what does what... you can hear your changes to the amp in real time and analyzing your favorite amp builds also helps you figure out what things are important and what may not be so important. Check it out! Good luck!
I haven't tried a dist pedal in a loop but use pedals like the EP boost quite often Don't be skeerd lol 😁 Never know till you try Thanks Brian
I'd actually like to try this with different fuzz pedals. I have an Effectrode Helios that might be fun to do this with! }:D
If the pedal is basically a big, fat sounding preamp (like a Pinnacle) - the loop is a great spot. If it's a RAT - then watch out!
The Guitar Geek i saw a vid that used a rat and it sounded fine. not bad indeed
I'm using the rat in the FX loop, Very good sounding. Just a little bit more responsive the Filter knob than in front of the amp.
My eq pedal is just rt goin thru the front of an egnater. In the fx loop it becomes microphonic ,feedback n all, alot . The other pedals are good in front or loop. Hav u ever ?
PLEASE watch your levels with the transition music, it was twice as loud as your guitar and voice! Nearly jumped out of my seat! :) Thanks for the Vid :)
So, I like my Tumnus deluxe, but now I'm thinking I need a pinacle. (Which I'd put into the front)
I actually sometimes like to use, for recording, a compression pedal in the loop, as in guitar to the front of the amp, then the effects send to the pedal, then the output of the pedal to the return. This allows me to set the amp's gain where I can go from almost totally clean to almost high-gain with only pick attack, not touching the guitar's volume, but then it compresses later in the chain. I can pick hard and get dirty, pick softly and clean up, but the volume stays consistent, as if I hit a dirty guitar tone with compression in post, except that I can "play to the compressor" because I can hear it in real-time. I get all the touch-sensitivity of the amp, but a "final product" that basically mixes itself. It's not great for very distorted rhythm stuff, and a rack compressor with line level ins and outs is more suitable to this application, but for a liquid lead tone, give it a try!
Adam Rainstopper interestinh idea I’ll try it with my vintage dynacomp cheers!
Yeah, go for it. Just bear in mind that a compression pedal will even stuff out by increasing the overall gain first, so when you turn it on, very quiet signals give the appearance of being "boosted." The result of this is that it will "boost" any noise from the preamp. Just set the amp up for minimal noise, and don't run a bunch of pedals into the front. Good luck, enjoy!
That's a good idea, but if you an find a compressor with a separate buffered sidechain input, you will be able to greatly reduce the noise that this kind of technique can engender. The way this works is this: Every compressor has a sidechain, which is where the compressor adjusts how much boost is adds to compensate for the dynamics in the signal, just most pedal compressors simplify by feeding the sidechain a buffered version of the same signal that is being effected. But if you can feed the sidechain the cleanest, most noiseless, least compressed signal you can (i.e. pretty much straight from the guitar), then you can set the compressor for more compression, and with a lower threshold, without the compressor trying to amplify the noise created by your effects and amp--even if the that noise is part of the signal that the compressor is working on. (This may not work with single coils if you are picking up a lot of hum, but then again, a compressor anywhere is going to have trouble in that kind of environment.)
Way back in the 90's, I ran a zoom 505 through my Marshall Valvestate effects loop and it sounded awful! I was so clueless that I thought every pedal would sound as bad as that cheap plastic one,lol. So I never used an effects loop again.
I prefer you to install the pedal to return amps. It sounds good to me
By running it into the return of the effects loop it's bypassing the pre-amp stage and therefore reducing a gain stage right?
Pretty pointless then if using a distortion pedal.
Not necessarily. If your running into a clean channel, yes you are going through gain stages, however they aren’t contributing to actual clipping unless you turn them up loud. Some prefer to use pedals as preamps, which is what this was an example of.
ADA Mp-1 in the background. That would've been been perfect straight into the power amp :)
I miss my ADA MP-1 pre-amps. I have 2 of them that need to have caps or whatever else needs to be overhauled.
If it was 1990.
I was actually curious about it too. Wonder what Brian would do with such a thing.
yeah, it works great into the power amp!
Glenn Danzig watches Wampler videos?
Definitely easier than having 4 different cables all over the place