The Metal Zone: Is it really a pre-amp?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2020
- The Boss Metal Zone... one of the worlds most loved and most hated on distortions. However, many of my fellow youtubers have considered the idea that perhaps it's actually meant to be a pre-amp. Maybe it's meant to run into the effects loop rather than the input of the amp. Then again, maybe not. I discuss this and more in the video. Plus we change out some frequency response curves, discussing why it may or may not actually work better in the effects loop. Or the input.
Comment below with your thoughts on which way you thought it sounded best!
Link mentioned:
modyourownpedal.com/collectio... - เพลง
The Boss Metal Zone... one of the worlds most loved and most hated on distortions. However, many of my fellow youtubers have considered the idea that perhaps it's actually meant to be a pre-amp. Maybe it's meant to run into the effects loop rather than the input of the amp. Then again, maybe not. I discuss this and more in the video. Plus we change out some frequency response curves, discussing why it may or may not actually work better in the effects loop. Or the input.
Comment below with your thoughts on which way you thought it sounded best!
Link mentioned:
modyourownpedal.com/collections/books
Tbh i just bought it and put on my board for the meme.
This and miku stomp.
Hmmm i need another meme pedal tho any thougjt
When you mod a pedal does it change the mV's of the pedal? I've got a Indyguitarist modded CH-1 and wonder about this pedal's mV's needs. I got a Meat and 3 modded Soul Food and don't know the mV's actually needed. How would someone who don't know or even understand most this technical talk figure this out on all the modded pedals I got.
sparkyguitar 00 the simplest way would be to actually measure how much current it draws using a multimeter.
Companies have made SS pre, tube power amps for years especially peavey. How is running a drive pedal into an EQ into an fx loop not just the same as that kind of amp? Is there any point to doing this other than bypassing the preamp tubes you paid extra for?
It's on my board in the effects loop. It sounds great for a certain flavor of tone. I don't use it often but it's useful.
"Sweep the mids"
"But Sensei..."
"SWEEP THE MIDS! ALL THE GAIN!"
"You have a problem with that?"
😂 you win the internet today Sir🤘🏽. Thanks for making my morning brighter 😂
I hope you're all watching Cobra Kai. It's the best thing on TV right now.
@@vubear just finished it last night on the Netflixes.
@@clugokillscluco I ate the whole thing in 2 sittings. I hate myself right now
Technically, any boost, drive, distortion and fuzz is a preamp. They're made up of an amplifier stage or stages, typically have some kind of EQ, and they’re always before (pre) the power amplifier. Really, I just see them as an extension of an amp's preamp section. So to me, running a pedal into the power amp means losing a flavor. That said, whatever gets you the sound you like, do it.
I think it's worth even trying your favorite distortions in your FX return to see if it gets a sound you think is cool. Thinking outside the box and getting new, cool sounds is half the fun of having real pedals in my opinion.
The pink noise generator is a genius idea. This might help me better understand why some pedals seem to work better than others with my amps. I honestly never considered how a mid humped pedal into a mid humped amp could just be difficult to dial tones in, because I honestly never thought to find out the frequency response of my amps.
Thanks Brian.
ThatPedalShow did a good video on this a few years back. I never understood why my Tube Screamer sounded so terrible when everyone said it was amazing. Turns out, Blackstar amps are already.... Tube Screamer-ish.
@@kibbles1053 They AREN'T ALL 'that'!
@@DMSProduktions what a dumb thing to add...
This is why I love TH-cam, imagine flipping on a tv show and finding a documentary on the metal zone.
What are your thoughts on pedals with tubes in them?
They're great, but you have to have the ear to recognize when the tubes are starting to die, and the option to replace them by design. If they are soldered in forget it, it's planned obsolescence.
The Two notes LeLead preamp pedal is fucking awesome. Even the clean channel has tube chime. Into a boss katana it's great
@@DaveWestGuitar A preamp valve usually lasts DECADES!
Pedals don't run enough voltage to make a tube do anything in a pedal.
They're useless.
@@vorpalblades How much voltage is necessary? Two notes claim theirs run at 200 volts
The thing I have found with the Metal Zone is it sounds good with the gain turned down. You can crank the output volume and take advantage of the great tone shaping EQ knobs. Sounds great, and it's run in the input of my Marshall Origin.
Great video - thanks!
Indeed, one of the best boost pedals.
The ending is truly the GOAT
crafty GOAT
@@stanislavmigra FULL of GOATY goodness! Meehehhhh!
i really enjoy all of the nerdy stuff in this demo. I found it very informative. Keep up the good work.
Always good to see a new video from you, Brian! Thanks!
My fav channel by far! Love the section using the pink noise to compare the eq curves! Great stuff!
Your videos are truly useful, educational, professional, objective and generous
Awesome Work, Brian! Love the breakdowns and comparisons on these videos! cheers :)
Love these videos Brian.... Your breakdowns on circuits, Freq Responses, caps, resistors,Lp/Hp filts, etc, etc, etc,. Ill definitely be watching!
With my old band we used to play a lot of shows with a certain opening band whose guitarist used a Metal Zone. He always used to want to borrow my 5150 stack so I would let him use it but get him to plug his pedal in through the FX return so I could retain my settings on the 5150's pre-amp. He was very happy with this as the Metal Zone always sounded good to him that way.
I didn't particularly like his tone as he always had a scooped mid sound, so that's what I thought those pedals mainly did. Later on I got one myself secondhand for a good price and actually found they are much more versatile than that.
I prefer the sound through the front input actually. It's crisper and more crunchy to me.
Thank you for these videos. You've inspired me to get back into pedal making and modding!
Very professional and entertaining channel. You have given me the confidence to attempt a build of my own. Keep up the great work! I dig the wig... Thank you!
I absolutely loved watching the eq as you turned the knobs with the pink noise!
Just when I thought this video couldn't be any better, you whip out the BE-OD! Thanks for this, great work.
Neat video, I really like the production, pace, and length!
I bought the top 3 distortion pedals I thought i wanted and compared them. I tweaked the eq section on each one to try and match them to each other and to different songs that had distortion I like. A darn funny thing happened...the pedal so many people hate was my favorite. I think the EQ section is versatile if you know how to "tweak" an EQ... MZ for the win!!!
This video shows it. That the greatest thing on Metal zone could also be its greatest problem. The EQ is SO powerfull, that lot of people can easily screw it. The range of EQ is insane.
Same here, although I like the kitsch factor so I was a little biased towards it to begin with, but, all things said and done I genuinely like it better than either of my other amps (and yes, I am using it in 'hipster preamp mode').
Yup I 100% percent agree.
@@stanislavmigra ....you said it better, very easy to screw it up and think it is a bad pedal!
Agreed
I had one of these as a kid in the 90s and loved it. Imagine my suprise when it became a bad pedal meme these past couple years
Stellar Video !!!
Love the deep dives 👍🏻
Brian, you're one of my favourite fellow nerds. Always informative and technically on point.
I removed the C35 and C24 caps, which helps, and then I turn the gain on the Metal Zone almost all of the way down. I run it into my fx loop, then hit the front of the pedal with a clean boost. Best Metal Zone tone I've ever had.
This was a great testing of this pedal.....understanding the frequency response seems to be a major factor in helping you dial in the eq better
Thank you so much for doing nerdy technical content. I love it.
I love this content, thanks Brian!
Thanks for the understanding and education. Awesome video!
This was such an interesting video. Very well done. I'm going to try doing some pink noise analysis of my own tonight.
I see you're at your old "confront internet opinions with science" trick again - I admire your dedication to what is arguably a lost cause!
Hey Brian, I love anything about frequency responses. I'm always trying to craft my tone through a better understanding of frequency response. Big thumbs up! I'd love to hear more about pink noise through amps (Deluxe, Reverb Deluxe, JTM 45) and through all your pedals esp the Tumnus. Thanks for your informative videos!
Very good. As usual I loved the visuals.
I liked this one; the sequencing and staging order of pedals is something I've only come to appreciate in my late thirties as I'm getting back into guitar, and videos like this are really helpful for someone like me! I've had a Hot Rod Deluxe for over a decade, however I've made a drastic detour and gone the digital modelling route using a Mooer Preamp Live into a powered speaker. It's a surprisingly decent solution for the music I play, and the geeky info in this video is useful to that end.
I really love this style of analysis video! It combines my engineering brain with my love for guitar in the nerdiest ways.
Man I love the tight sizzle of the MT-2. Yeah it’s real easy to go to far with the eq but once you dial it in 😀 soo sweet 🤘🏽.
Pink noise, white noise’s more balanced sibling 😂
Thanks for the video. Very informative. I have an old Digitech Grunge pedal that I have tried both ways in my amp. I obtained similar results. Darker through the effects loop.
Another great use of the Metal Zone !
Thanx, Master !
I don’t play guitar. I knew the answer to this question after you spoke for 30 seconds. Yet, I watched to the very end! You got some mad voodoo, man. Good job.
Really enjoyed the vid, cheers!
I loved the visuals with the pink noise! Very cool.
Great video!!! Congrats!!!
I bought the DS-2 kindle! And managed to find an older pedal to open and poke at if the mood hits me. Thanks for sharing knowledge!
Nice video Brian. Your videos are always instructive.
And by the way, I'm a Metal Zone user for years, mostly because of it's versatility (and solidity).
From what I've understood, 'White Noise'= all frequencies at same level, while 'Pink Noise'= compenseted for human ears (it's a curve with more low and high freak'n'cies).
About using it, I don't think they were built with the idea that they were to be used in the effects loop (EL) channel. It has become a trend, as more and more amps are built with ELs, but, What people forget, is that people were using outboard gear and entire racks in their EL, often Reverbs or Delays, some Distortions but usually a volume pedal, so you could dial the amount of 'Drive' you wanted in the moment. Also meaning many cables.
Steve Morse is one good example.
Another thing, usually, when you use the effects loop, you tend to use the 'wet' part not 'dry+wet',(like in a mixing console), something that you can't do with a pedal, by it self in the EL. Does that make any sens? Genuine question here.
Btw, the way, The MT-2 can be useful for others things than the Guitar. Used it with a berimbau and a cello bow, same with a Portuguese guitar, Drum machine, Bass, voice, etc. The buttons are really tiny for their range, but you can really go from bluesy dirty tones to full blast metal, and everything in between. I use a few pedals but there's none that is always on. I see the MT as a guitarist's swiss knive, if you'll need a distortion of some kind. Keep up the good work, it is appreciated, and take care.
ps I have one of your Triple Wreck pedals, and love it, but use it when i want a certain flavor. Also have the G4 from Revv, the Metal Planet from Rocktron and the Uber Metal from Line6. My amp is an Acoustic 165, all tubes, the wooden ones with a Vintage EV (12T?), full range speaker. Maybe that helps.
ps2 Sorry for my bad English. Hope you're doing ok.
wonderful analysis. as both guitarist and physicist i absolutely love it!
Hi Brian, great to see you applying your scientific skills to this debate! I only have a suggestion to start with the visualization for the EQ of a heavy gain Marshall tube presmp that the Metal Zone tries to mimic, so people have a baseline for comparison. Cheers
Most dirt pedals work about as well as a pre-amp as the pre-amp in your amp.
It's all about raising the volume levels for the power amp section. Overdrive was a wonderful and unexpected secondary result of raising the volume level.
So basically, any pedal that allows you to raise the volume, sculpt the EQ, and/or add grit will behave roughly like your amp's pre-amp.
Nice to see the visual comparisons with the pink noise though! So thank you, Brian. THAT is what needs to be shown in many of the "pedal shootout" videos.
In fact, Brian, just like freq response graphs allow us to kind of estimate how a speaker may sound, I wish we'd see freq response curves for out pedals. I want to know what freq the mid-push is at, where the low-end cutoff knee is, etc.
You should start a revolution by adding these technical specs to your documentation. Hopefully other makers will join suit and we customers will have more info that makes our shopping more efficient.
that *is* something that might be cool!
@@wampler_pedals yah like lens MTF curves!
Really interesting, thanks Brian!
I'm definitely going to use this as classroom material
I love these videos. Awesome
Cool video. The visualization of the pink noise was helpful. You can go nuts examining the attack transience and all kinds of bits, but the frequency curve does what it does. Because guitar players, I just know there’s guys out there sticking distortion in their effects loops and then putting an EQ in front of it set to a very close facsimile of the curve of their preamp.
Thanks a lot for that insight!
I love my Medal Zone !
I get why lots of people may not like it, but I think many of them dont take the time to set it up to what they want, but to each their own.
That frequency response thing is awesome! I want more!
Got your Tamnus today, man what a sound, awesome pedal, greetings from Mallorca, Spain👍
Mayorka
Really cool and informative video. Thanks for sharing the complete signal path from noise to output/DAW, I learned a lot! One question, though: Which amplitude/spectrum would I have to chosse in order to simulate a nearly accurate guitar signal? I guess maybe even the levels vary a lot between single coils and humbuckers...
Hi Brian!
Your predicament about lack of Volume/Level control when running a distortion or pre-amp unit through an effects loop immediately brought to mind Jeff Diamante's (Diamond Amplification) decidedly-unorthodox solution. He designs his effects loop such that, when something is plugged into the effects loop, the front panel knob labeled "effects return" acts as a master volume on the amp, with the volume controls on the channels then each act as a "Level" control at the Effects Send. At first, I thought this approach was a little perplexing-- I always run B/O/D pedals into the input, with my modulation and filter effects running through the effects loop, so I never really had to worry too much about volume control through the effects loop. Now that I've seen this video demonstrating the Metal Zone used as a pre-amp, Jeff's approach makes a lot of sense!
Thanks again for the informative videos - they're some of the best out there on these topics!
Man ,,, you help me so much ... I do love books ... Gonna get your's ,,, as soon as I can ... Thanks ... You da man ... D
Super interesting!
Wonderfully demonstrated.
Only been using the MT-2 for 30 years... I never ever tried this!!!
Tomorrow morning, though...
Thanks Brian.
Can't wait to buy a Tumnus btw
Love this!
Could you do the same test for Sd-1 and TS to finally see which mid frequency gets boosted on those pedals respectively
sure! it's 723hz on the TS depending on where exactly the tone control is. I'll have to do sd-1 shortly.
@@wampler_pedals Here's a better question that's been bothering me for some time. I've modded my MT-2 with a combination of your JCM Boogie mod and your Overdrive mod, and got addicted to it and learned a lot about SD-1's and Tube screamers in the process. My question is about the LPF in the feedback loop of the SD-1. In the Tube screamer, the same values in reverse order makes a HPF to ground the same as the LPF in the SD-1. In one of your MT-2 modding videos, you said that the order doesn't matter. How does that work? What am I missing?
Thanks for putting visuals on the sounds!
Download reaper and do it yourself for basically nothing.
@@orionktulu In short: the word "negative" before "feedback". They're both the same HPF. One decides what frequencies get shorted out to ground. The other decides what frequencies get cancelled out by it's own out op phase output.
i have an early 90s metal zone and its my fave dist pedal....the eq on it is fantastic
Fun video. A good amount of info
Thanks Brian - kind of shtuff I find interesting! ✌❤🎸
Thank you Brian! I got two intermediate commercial breaks in 11 minutes, so I hope you get at least something for that. Love your videos.
Ugh serious?! I thought I turned those off. Thanks for letting me know. I’ll change it.
Wampler Pedals thank you again. Your video brought me another piece of the beautiful puzzle in learning about gain stages! Your expertise is outstanding.
While I don't think it is "supposed to be" a preamp, I think the effect of its huge EQ range and that it can push mids so high is that it maybe was "supposed" to make up for the mid scoop of amps like this. SO it was intended to be put in front of the amp, but that sounds prettttty harsh when put through an input with an EQ setting that doesn't like it, and it just accidentally worked better as a preamp where you can completely shape the tone coming in to the output stage.
- What happened to the BE-OD when you put it in the effects return is it became so much less flubby in the low-end. It's those extremes that get bad when putting the metal zone through the input because of the shape of the tone stack.
- To fix the issues with tone when not using the pedal would be a switcher that moves the signal from the pedal to the input, but then the pedal would always be pushing noise into the output stage, so it'd have to close off the pedal too. Tough sitch unless you're always going to be using the pedal.
Nerd Vision, I love it. Keep them coming.🤘
I LOVE THIS VIDEO. As a system engineer, it feeds my nerdness. I understood your “SPICE” aside. Now, my important question: WHAT SIGNAL ANALYSIS SOFTWARE are you using, on what platform? If I can see the transfer functions, I can develop what I want in my rig.
Thanks for this
Loved this
I always upvote the Metal zone :)
Another great one.
S.P.I.C.E. !!! I haven't heard that mentioned since college! (hint - a LONG time ago).
Please do more like this with other overdrive and distortion pedals! Also, it would be interesting to input an A440 sine curve and compare how different overdrive and distortion devices clip the peaks as viewed on an oscilloscope.
Whether its actually a pre-amp or not, I can share my own experience. I like many others got a metal-zone as my first distortion pedal, but was able to make it work. it sounded a little thin, and flat, and after I got a Hughes and Kettner Warpzone a few years after, I havent really used it. every now and then I did pull it out to try it, but it was always the same. But after all this talk on youtube about it I decided to bring it to practice one day, I plugged straight into it with my Heavy axe tuned to drop G with a Emg 81 in the bridge, and ran it straight into my power amp. And it sounded great! the tone had grith, and it sounded much more alive and responsive than ever. I was surprised, and so was the rest of the band. It sounded so good that I used it for the reminder of the practice. So, it made a huge difference for me.
Love your "Diezner" mod for these mt-2 pedals!
Thanks for the nerd video, keep them coming!
9:07 I’ve been fiddling with running pedals into the return on my jcm800 2203 bypassing the preamp. I found this also bypasses the master volume control. So if I turn off the last pedal in line, the volume is no longer throttled and I ended up in a Marty McFly situation. “Whoa...Rock ‘n Roll!”
in my personal experience. every BOSS dirt box sounds great with Jazz Chorus amp (input).
Roland Orzabal from Tears For Fears used Boss pedals and Jazz Chorus amps pretty exclusively
Great video!
Great vid!
Amazing video.
Great video and subject!
So what was the conclusion frequency wise- is it a preamp?
Also at the and you were talking about going clean when connecting to the FX Return- why would you, just by turning off the PREAMP distortion pedal?
You need a system of a clean preamp pedal AND a distortion preamp pedal- just like if you connected to a 2 channel amp (into the input).
I love using my 'Zone as a preamp, but I am under no illusions that it's meant to be used that way. It's just a harsh, super high gain pedal that's easier to wrangle going in the back door...
Great video, I had a Tube screamer a Boss Distortion and an MXR distortion over the years. My metal zone has more adjustments and sounds as good or better. The Tube screamer has its own sound. Great with a tube amp. Metal Zone is great on my pedal board as well.
I have a Boss Super Distortion with an additional effect, Super Sustainer. I loathe this pedal. Can I simply swap out the circuit board for a Tremolo board?
Would a different circuit board be available?
I really with more people did this kind of test to gear! Great job!
I feel most of the fuss people get is because of pickup selection along with the pedal.
Fantastic!
Nice 👍 I run my pedals into the loop return and use a GE7 end of chain just like you said. Works great for me. Good video
Finally! I made a video that got close to 200k views about a super simple mod on the MT2 to take away that harshness and make it play nicer with the front of any amp. The amount of angry comments saying "you are using it wrong!" "it's suposed to go in the loop!" or "don't you know it's a preamp, dumbass!" is mind blowing. Luckily now I can direct them to watch this video and learn something. Thanks Brian for another awesome video full of knowledge and valuable information. Keep on with the nerdy stuff!
@War Zone It’s ok Ola, this wasn’t your fault. The internet just has too many mindless zombies who will take whatever you tell them as gospel. I know, all you just wanted was to show how good a mt2 can sound in the fx loop, but they are too used to being spoon fed to see that. It’s ok, we know it backfired, but you really don’t need to keep on with the facade. It’s ok..
For better cleans with volume control, split the signal. I use a Boss TU-3 that starts my clean signal out the Bypass jack and into the input of my GK 800RB bass head. The Effects Send then runs out to my clean chain (BF-2, TR-2, Polara) and into the A/B-side of a Passive Summer. Back at the TU-3, the Output jack connects to my Metal Zone and the remainder of my distortion chain (CH-1, M108S), then into the A/B-side of the summer. The combined signal leaves the Y-side of the Summer to connect to a BBE Sonic Stomp, then the amp's Effects Return. With BEAD-tuning, the always-on cleans help define my distorted low end.
Awesome vid. Brian! do you use an oscilloscope when you design or tweak Wampler Pedal circuits? Love the channel!
Recommend a good plate reverb pedal(Other than the catalinebread talisman)?
I discovered running distortion pedals through the return a few years ago and was pretty amazed by the difference (starting with the DS-1). I almost feel like the designers of the pedals did all their sound crafting/testing through a raw amp without a pre-amp, and that's why it sounds better bypassing the amps pre-amp.
Now I want to try every single distortion pedal I could get my hands on and run it into the return to see how it sounds. 😄
Although I will say, to me, no pedal beats my JCM 2000 head distortion, or even my Crate BV.
I was using the mz2 waza and that custom switch is amazing ! it literary sounds like a amp rather than a distortion pedal, blown away !
I've done the spectrum analyzer trick to try to match different pedals and amp sounds. Easiest way to see what a pedal/amp's EQ is doing.
I love videos like this
This was really fun.
Hello would you know of any link where I can buy a diesel mod kit for the Metal Zone
awesome video
Another video to the testament of how great the Metal Zone...
LIKE!
Great vid