It’s more like comparing two rifles instead of the 6.5 and 308. What would be a better comparison is to use the same make and model of rifles in each caliber.
@@Syxtus_outdoors oh yea really. If you want to compare the difference between two cartridges it’s best to use the same barrel length and same rifles to keep it about the cartridges not the rifles.
@@Syxtus_outdoors I second Patriot's comment. There's a reason precision shooters prefer after market chassis and pistol grips. Makes a noticeable difference.
I agree with you 100%. I like my AK a lot more than I like my AR. I will tell you the 223 round is much better round that the 7.62. I have shown a few people the supremacy of the AK in an urban battlefield when I was teaching then how to shoot in Arizona. If you take an AR platform in 223 and compare it with the AR platform in the 7.62. The 223 will out perform the 7.62. If anyone reading this has any questions then I will answer it. If you ask a dumbass question you get a dumbass answer.
Indeed, a proverbial "apples to oranges" comparison. As a staff engineer at NIST (National Institute of Standards & Technology) great pains and considerations to reduce equipment deviation is necessary to achieve five sigma results. I have an Accuracy International AE MKIII on its second barrel in .308 Win that groups almost identically as a friends Surgeon Scalpel in 6.5 Creedmoor.
1st 6.5 just caught the right edge that was magically painted over when we saw the group. But you did group 5 after that. Just goes to show that no matter the round, skill at wind calling is critical for long range with any round.
He took a shot with the 308 without the downrange camera set up nor the spotting scope. Without explanation it could be just reading wind before executing the group for each caliber. You notice in the audio and video of each group there is noticeable wind in the 6.5 group, where the 308 was dead quiet and still. If the first shot holding center is far right on the plate, 308 or 6.5 doesn't matter, it stands to reason why someone would make a scope adjustment or hold left so your group stands on the target. It was clear the 6.5 was drilling it even with the wind, which likely meant he was extremely lucky the wind helped the group or the wind was extremely consistent along with the rifle.
At about the 6:39 mark the first hit using 6.5 was noted to be on the far right aspect of the target approximately at the midpoint vertical axis. This was not measured at the end of the video and appeared to have been painted over. Why is that?
I would still take the .308 because I would never be able to shoot anything past 150 yards here in it southeast due to vegetation. .308 as we all know is easier to find and cheaper. If you target shoot to 1000 yards, 6.5 makes sense. Great video and excellent shooting.
In Arizona during the 90's I worked for the state corrections and was the number 1 sniper for the little prison in Globe/Miami. We got the 2nd hand Remington model 700 308 from the Phoenix prison as a hand me down as they got new weapons and later that year in mid Summer there was a state wide corrections tactical support unit (TSU) competition. Now I had shot guns as a kid in the 60's, 70's and up to the 90's but never in a competitive event. I came in second after having a miss fire. Told that was it and about 10 rounds later as me and my spotter are putting our weapons in the cave we are told they have been during the sniper shoot all wrong and we have another chance! So we run back up the hill. I'm using a winter army jacket for a ground pad. It's mid summer in Winslow, Arizona. The gravel of the gun range is Hot! Plus we are the bastard step child of the main prison of Phoenix. We get no money for new things we just make do. So my ground pads a winter jacket and my head cover is the same damn thing! And boy it's hot. Plus I'm going to shoot a cold barrel against hot. At the end of the day I came in 2nd with a shoot off at 100 yards at 1in squares for the best group. It was a choice of 3 boxes and they called which box to start shooting in 5 seconds or less. 5 rounds in 10 seconds. 1st place beat me by a hair. I mean that. A hair. Back then we had about 20 officers to choose for TSU. Phoenix had all most 70 for their team. We placed 2nd for our Shotgun Team also. I loved that 308. First time shooting it before the competition and after. I got a few now. Love the caliber.
Thanks for sharing your story it was an interesting read. 308 is sure a very capable and fun to shoot cartridge its still one of my favorites, with new vld and eld bullets it certainly got a new lease on life. Thanks for watching!
6.5 creed eas perfected to be more efficient in its class ! It has to have 1/8 twist to stabilize the elongated 140 grain bullet so it can stabilize the round to reach its maximum potential .
Talented shooter but far from a fair comparison, a chassis with pistol grip and a muzzle brake on the 308 would make it a little fairer if not using two of the same rifles chambered in each calibre with similar loads would be an ideal comparison. A penetration comparison at this distance would yield a different opinion too.
I really enjoyed this. I was timing the flight time of both. The .308 was an average of ~1.68 seconds. The 6.5mm was an average of ~ 1.4 seconds. I have a Savage model 12 with a boyds stock and a Vortex Diamondback scope. I'm just barely getting into hand loading as well. As a fairly new long distance shooter I was very impressed that you knew exactly what to dial in on your elevation for 1,000 yards. Looked like there was no wind that day. I was also really amused at that deer when it smelled something it didn't like. You probably could have had a decent kill shot with the Creedmore. I know it's too far but the accuracy was there. Great video. Thanks
Don Parker thanks for watching i really appreciate your comment. Having precision rifle and hand loading definitely makes it more enjoyable to shoot and getting really tight groups in the process, the difference between customized load and factory ammo is quite obvious in accuracy especially at longer ranges. You were very close in your times for bullet flight for each calibers being off just by fractions of the second, very good observation im very impressed! As for deer in the picture it was spooked by mhbscent on the camera which was few feet away from the target, i didn't have tags so it wasn't possible to harvest it also being out of season and at 1000 yards wouldn't be 100% ethical to do so. There was slight wind during 308 series but has picked up drastically an hour later when 6.5 creedmoor was shot. Thanks for watching and good luck in your reloading experience!
@@Syxtus_outdoors Question for you. Since I barely know what I'm doing, can I ask you what bullets and propellent you used for the 1,000 yard shots with the .308? I started doing this when practically nothing is available for reloads so i just got what what I could get. I'm using Hornady 150 gn SST bullets and Hornady 168 gr BTHP match bullets with IMR 4895 powder and Lapua brass. I'm loading the 168 gr bullets with 42 gn's of powder and the 150 gr bullets with 45.2 gr's of powder.
@@donparker1823 for my 308 im running 168gr Sierra tmk with 42.9gr of varget and lapua brass its a target bullet, it shoots sub moa at 100 yards. Good luck.
The 6.5 Creedmore was designed with bullets for longer range shooting. Recently attention has been given to .308 bullets to increase their BC. The Berger Juggernaut BC is .55. The Lapua 155 gr Scenar is a more efficient .308 bullet. Comparing the two calibers should be done with modern high BC bullets. The 6.5 undoubtably holds the edge but with modern high BC bullets, the .308 can work at 1000 yds negating the need for a new rifle. 1000 yds is also not a hunting distance, just a target distance.
It's ok to have a favorite. Also, I think the Berger bullets are superior to the sierra match king bullets. Personally, I'd love to have a creedmore but since i already have everything to handload 308 and a pretty decent Ruger 308, I can't justify spending the extra cash for the creed. Nice to see a good video, love the bullet trace.
One of the few things that people don't tell you about 6.5 creed is that it burns out your barrel fast. About 4-6k rounds later. whereas the 308 win will last 20k rounds.
Dude that group is incredible. I would say that's probably a 4-5 inch group for sure. You had that one low and then put 4-5 in the same spot. That's incredible. My dad has the tac a1 too and I had a 3-3.5 inch group at 460. He's gotta bipod on it now. I wanna try to load it and see how I do then. Great shooting! Even the group with the .308 was spectacular. 1000 yards is a looooong way
No question, the Creedmoor round is better at long ranges. As for the .308, the bullet isn't all that different from the 30-o6 I competed with back in 1963, and we used 165gr boattail bullets. Oh, and iron sights! Custom machined to a smaller aperture, but still iron sights. Rifles, match grade M1 Garand for the first few matches, then match grade M14s, the first time to my knowledge that the rifle was used in competition. We used Fr Riley KS ranges, and after a full day of shooting my right cheek was swollen and my shoulder was seriously bruised!
For me if it’s a choice of 6 mm up to 308 cal out to 600 yards I pick the 6.5 x 55 in 140 or 150 gr factory load , sweet shooting round , very similar ballistics to the creedmoor out to 600 yards
It’s not really fair to run a test against a 308 stock model with a precision 6.5 nor is it fair to use different types of ammo either. You want a fair comparison get 2 identical savage rifles in different calibers with the same brand and type of ammo and then you can call it fair
@@Syxtus_outdoors The gun and round comparison is good, I think you could have put a better group down on the .308. You had more time and movement off of the gun the way you were reloading, I think had you stayed on the gun during reloads your very good .308 group would have been closer to the 6.5 group. Still great shooting though.
@@kenbrown873 there was alot of unnecessary movement i agree, it has been corrected since i made the video, the 308 is still a great round for all types of shooting what really separates these two cartridges is vertical drop at longer ranges which wasn't mentioned in the video. At 1000 yards 6.5 has only 26 moa drop where 308 is at 33 so quite a substantial difference, 6.5 beats 308 in windage quite easily as well. Thanks for watching.
@@Syxtus_outdoors I agree both are great rounds, I have not shot much in recent years but I am looking to get back into shooting. My first thought was .308 and honestly didn't even consider anything else until I started looking into different gun manufactures and saw a lot of 6.5 being featured. Main reason I watched your video is I am heavily leaning toward the Tikka, I don't see many options as good for that price. My shooting past was .270 and .30 06, I love the .270.
To be a more effective comparison you should have shot from same rifle manufacturer, same bullet manufacturer try to keep everything as close to even as possible. Still the 6.5 will shoot flatter, but on the receiving end..the 308 has the power.
Some noise in the comments about the 175gr doing better in the 308. Probably true, that's why I load 175gr in my hand loads for long range 308, and 208 and 220 in my 30-06. But it doesn't make enough difference to invalidate these results. In 2019 the Army tested 175gr 7.62N vs 6.5C and concluded that the Creedmoor doubled the probability of first round hit at 1000Yd. While it's true that the 6.5C isn't black magic (This kind of trajectory benefit was well known from the ballistically identical 100+ year old 6.5x55 S). The reason the 6.5 was dropped by some militaries was the desire to make penetrator cored, tracer and incendiary bullets. Notice how long for caliber those specialty rounds are for 5.56mm and you can see why there was just no real stretch available in the already very long for caliber 6.5mm 140gr bullet. But if you are shooting big game and it's not wearing level 4 and you don't care whether it catches fire after you shoot it 6.5C is hard to beat. And it is so mild shooting it also makes a really nice fun to shoot long range plinker.
I have tried both 168gr and 175gr projectiles in 308 and went with 168s due to the fact that sd and es numbers were lower for these and as we know in long range shooting its paramount for any kind of consistency and predictability. Thanks for your input and happy shooting.
@@malJohann don't be upset, a test shot is standard especially with the wind picking up where it was non-existent on the previous group. He also shot a test shot for 308 that wasn't recorded by the down range camera. 6.5 was drilling it even with the bit of wind, also maybe the 6.5 rifle is just a better shooter.
This whole video was a waste of my time and sheer proof that you are a fan of the 6.5 as was stated rifles should have been apples to apples as well as ammo and to not state the first shot omision shows intent to hide it. I call BS.
People say 6.5 creed is better. Yes you’re right ballistic wise. I like 308 because I can afford to shoot 2 rounds for every 1 round of 6.5 creed. The amount of practice and repetition I get will transfer over to 6.5 creed.
@@menumlor9365 factory prices are the nearly the same for premium ammo. 308 just has more affordable plinking ammo which is great for getting trigger time.
Something is messed up your first shot was at 3clock with the creedmoor ,and when u went up it was gone painted over,someone is kidding there self Lmao joke
Everything about this production is great. However, it would have been cool to use the audio for the hit from the far away camera so we could hear the delay from 1000 yards. The delayed "bong" from the steel is one of my favorite parts of long range videos
Do you watch MarkandSamafterwork? I counted 5 seconds flight time in a recent vid. And that was only around 2300 yards, he has longer range hits. Incredible.
Clearly he shot a superior Tikka against an inferior Savage 308 win. Still the 308 shot well. Overall I believe the 308 is better and so does the military.
Great shooting. I guess the first one that was almost off the target at 6.30 minute mark was your slighter for the 6.5. Still great shooting. I found the OTM 130gr box Berger ammo was producing sub MOA results at 1000 in my 6.5. Heck it was so good I just bought several boxes. I have the 6.5 rifle is the same as your 308.
The very first shot with Creedmore was on right side edge of plate. What happened to that when you measured.? The Creedmore also appears to be in a waty better chasis then the stock of the 308. Will also help with group size
Ignore the naysayers. I'd say good shooting. Most people would struggle to have that grouping at 500yds much less 1000. Thanks for posting! Keep it up and here's a suggestion: Make more videos like this one!
Thanks, it definitely takes time to shoot tight groups at long distance and then you have all these whiners complaining about a single shot just blows my mind! Thanks for watching!👍
Most people would struggle but not any shooting in Master or High Master Class of NRA Long-Range Competition in essentially a prevailing wind condition. Virtually all of these shooters can keep all of their shots inside 10 inches at 1000 yards shooting with irons and sling support. It’s why the NRA had to produce a target with a smaller X-Ring to eliminate ties in F Class Competition where shooters shoot from rest and with optic.
The video was entertaining to watch, but I don't think your methodology was sound. Two different rifles, two different bullets, different wind conditions, 5 shots with 308, 8 shots with the 6.5 and you discounted and painted over your furthest shot before measuring the 6.5 group (if you had shot 3 more 308 rounds and ignored the furthest one, would the 308 group have shrunk?)... The world knows that the 6.5 Creedmoor is a "better" long range round. Although entertaining, this video didn't do anything to demonstrate the actual superiority of the 6.5 CM, if anything it made the 308 Winchester look really good! I'm not trying to be a webdink/troll, I'm just trying to put these results into perspective. Thanks for your efforts, Cheers!
Thanks for positive criticism, im not an expert on TH-cam production by any means and i wish some things were done differently but then again everything is a learning process. As always i appreciate a good input on how to improve things in the future, when it comes to both rifles they both shoot sub moa on paper at 100 yards and thought of it as a fair comparison but there is hundreds of factors that will obviously separate them and make them superior to each other, 6.5cm has that advantage of being well engineered cartridge over one thats nearly 70 years old so it will come down to numbers. Thanks for watching!
@@Syxtus_outdoors Thanks for your thoughtful response. I reread my comment, and despite my best effort, I still ended up sounding like douchebag. It's a good video! Way better than any video I've ever posted...ZERO! I just recognized how it could have been better with a few simple changes. I think you are onto something good and I encourage you to continue. Don't hesitate to ignore jerks like me... or, do it again, this time with gel blocks! Cheers
Creedmoor haters unite. I think the cartridge has more than proven itself by now. Get over it, people. It is here to stay. Many former military snipers are starting to sing its praises.
Never did like any 168 Sierra on the 1000 yard line. Normally I use 168 Hornady 42.0 grains IMR4895. When the wind picks up, I switch over to Lake City M118 173 grain special ball. That group is the same as my 1-10 twist M1A Super Ultra Match with open sights.
@@dannyray8719 Anything that I have shot with my creedmoor drops dead as a stick. It certainly seems more than adequate for the medium size game I have used it on.
@@whiskeytango9769 Didn't say it doesn't just saying the 308 has a little more knock power, the 6.5 was designed to go further than the 308, which it does quite well. My friend has a creedmoor, it's what he hunts deer with. I went with the 308, because of the ability to find ammo. The creedmoor is kinda a new round not as easy to find. I mostly hunt with my 300 blackout mostly, it's much lighter than my 308.
I couldn't imagine being doped in to a target at 1000 and see a deer walk up to the plate and not actually take that shot. you sir have great self control
This passes summer I had a 6, two 8, a large 12 walk out on the place my buddy and I shoot. Every time between 800 and 1000 yards. We had been practicing all year shooting clay pigeon's at these distances. Funny part is the 6 and 8's would just look around after the shots. Not the 12. None would run. Not even the does. Just mosey into the timber casually. We had to seize fire on the turkey picking around our targets. My buddy hunted I did not. He took 2 doe at 700 yards with his Christensen arms Ridgeline 300 W.M. I was practicing with a stock Savage m10 heavy barrel 308 & 175 SMK in Lapua brass and Savage stealth ba m10 6.5 creedmoor 147 ELDM in Lapua brass. The 308 is a tack driver. Really hard to believe what it has done, but some is recorded. Just got the 6.5 so still figuring it out and setting it up. So far I like the 6.5 creedmoor but I'm bald and shaven. So i can't grow a man bun.🤣😂
Years ago i was working up some loads at the range and there were these 2 geese that hung around there. Well that day they kept walking past my target at 100 yards there heads dead on the bullseye, wouldent even have had to move the rifle. it was funny, l would wait for them to walk by and they weren't afraid of the shots, happend many times. Had a 36 power scope so got a good look at them. Didnt even think of shootin them .Fun day at the range.
The Creedmoor is not too bad? Center target, 1,000 plus yards, 6 inch group? Holy cow. Speaking of cows what the hell was going on in the pasture? A wolf attacking a cow? That was weird.
I just recently watched a Ron Spoolmer video comparing the. 308 Win versus the 6.5 Creedmoor out to that distance. He was talking about the bullet drop based on chart calculations with the .308 Win being about 93". And about 68" with the 6.5 Creedmoor. Both weapons being fired from a range of about 1000 yards. He preferred the 6.5 Creedmoor over the .308 Win for the very reason that was demonstrated here. Impressive, to say the least! 👏 Seeing is believing! By the way, I just subscribed to your channel as well.
Thanks for watching, my bullet drop for 308 is 33 moa and for 6.5cm is at 26moa so quite less dialing up and less margin for errors, i prefer 6.5cm as well its a well balanced cartridge especially in windy conditions.
my 308's drop about 430 inches at 1000 yd and are going subsonic right around the 820 yard mark with a drop of 220 inches or about 7.5 MILS. I can hit the 1000 yard targets at my local range but the e-target won't pick up subsonic bullets. The bullet trace is going right through the black. I just have too short of a barrel to get the velocity I need.
Regardless of calibre, an 11" group at 1000 yards is excellent marksmanship. I guess, to be truly scientific about the test, it would be two tikkas, same model. Regarding the science behind this test, I know that Tikka/Sako test every single barrel for sub moa accuracy, before leaving the factory? Do Savage do this? Point is, if Savage test for moa accuracy and tikka test for sub moa, considering the rifles you have used in the video, it's a draw 🤔
It's being debated in some states to ban the 6.5 for deer hunting! Doesn't leave a good enough blood trail even on good shots at 300 yds or less!! Too much lost game!!
First of all that was excellent shooting on both rifles. I wouldn't have called the 6.5 more accurate on this particular day because this comparison was totally unfair to the .308 - And because the video description calls this a 5 shot accuracy comparison of these calibers in general, I have to play devils advocate. The tikka has a superior trigger, a precision chassis, a muzzle brake, adjustable length of pull, adjustable comb, a real pistol grip, more appropriate ammo selection, and overall cost almost 3x as much as the savage. $2200 rifle VS an $800 rifle with a plastic field stock... A more fair ammo selection would have been the 130gr 6.5 bergers vs the 178gr .308 hornady ELD-Xs which are significantly more efficient at 1000 yards than the sierra 168s. The 6.5's group was not 6 inches. He painted over the first shot of the group, he fired 8 shots instead of 5 like the 308, and the 308 was all in one take, whereas the 6.5 was not. The video also cut right after 8:00, it could've been while waiting for better weather, it could have been nothing, but it was cut and the .308's clip was not. To me, with the painting of the first shot along with the difference of investment, this indicates a clear bias for the 6.5. Maybe if you make up the rules yourself you can say it was 6 inches, but in any competition that first shot would've counted. Measuring the pixel width of the .308 group on the screen and the pixel width of the 6.5's actual 5 shot group, they appeared 0.1 - 0.2 MOA of each other. Also, I don't own either of these calibers, so I don't have a bias or incentive to make one appear superior. I'm just giving credit where credit is due. I think it's only fair to compare two identical rifles using the most ballistically efficient ammo available for the task at hand for each caliber.
Five feet of drop in elevation on the .308 The 6.5 shoots a little flatter and with a little less windage adjustment. If your using a 168 g .308 win verse a 142g 6.5
Great shooting - BTW the .308 barrel will last 5 times longer than the creed . creed was developed as a target shooting round , call it the Dodge Viper . 308 is the Ford F150 of the Bolt action world imho
Im not sure what the fascination is comparing the 308w and 6.5, when the 308w shoots much heaver bullets with less BC vs high BC 6.5. Both have similar powder volumes. Wouldn't the 7mm o8 with 140 gr VLD be a better comparison.
Here’s something that’s actually meaningful to a long range competitor, the 6.5, having almost twice the MOA wind constant of the 308, means the 6.5 has half the wind deflection from an un-countered full value 1 mph wind change. At 1000 yards it’s a 5 inch displacement vs. a 10 inch displacement. And, since the X-Ring on a 1000 yard target is 10 inches in diameter it means more X-Ring hits when shooting the 6.5 rather than when shooting a .308. Remarks are comparison of 140 grain 6.5 match round to 175 Grain .308 match round from 24 inch barrel, typical of semi autos brought to the long line.
How come he didn't measure to the 1st bullet 1st bullet the hit on the right hand side of the target with the 6.5 creed more.....🤔 Actually it was painted over when he did his grouping....
6.5 takes almost half the MOA wind constant of the 308, meaning bullet displacement from a 1 mph wind at 1000 yards will move a 140 grain 6.5 bullet about 5 inches from point of aim while the 175 grain 308 bullet will move about 10 inches from point of aim. Now, since the tie breaking X-Ring on a 1000 yard target is 10 inches in diameter the 6.5 always wins. But thing is the 6.5 has about a 1000 round barrel life while the 308 might go 10,000 rounds, thus for long range practice and development of wind reading skills the 308 is the winner.
@@Syxtus_outdoors the key word is ABOUT half, which it is comparing M118LR to a 140 grain 6.5 match loading from 24 inch barrel length. The point is this, a 1-3 wind can not be discerned, except from smoke, so a shooter firing at the NRA Long-Range Target with a .308 is going to have fewer X-Ring hits due to uncountered wind and thus loose to a equally capable marksman who is shooting a 6.5 even though both shooters have identical scores.
@@charlesludwig9173 sure 30 cal just can't compete against the 6.5cm its very obvious, from my experience 6.5cm is way more consistent and predictable in any wind than any 30 caliber.
@@Syxtus_outdoors yes indeed. The 308 is better for long range training and barrel life but since wins in long range matches at high master level requires perfect scores and high X counts I am taking the 6.5 to the firing line or I am shooting in Service Rifle division with a .223 AR-15 just for the extraordinary skill development it requires just to stay in the 10 ring.
Well actually because of the efficiency of 6.5 creed our past 400 yards with most bullets it retains more energy than the .308. So if you know you’re shooting at 500 or beyond, you’re getting less energy guaranteed in .308.
Yes but he didnt compare comprable weights. Easily could have got some 130 grain 308s going 3050 ft/sec which is 3 to 400 ft/sec faster than 6.5CM. Checkout the 110 grainers in 308. Real screamers. 6.5CM can't touch that huntimg power.
@@hoffpbass308 doesn't scream anything at 1000 yards. If you go down in bullet weight, you gain muzzle velocity but both your examples become would put bullet into transonic or subsonic speeds at/around 1000 yards. The 130 berger otm hybrid used here if launched at 2800 fps will still be traveling supersonic for another 300 yards. 308 has a little more case capacity but not enough to compensate for bullet sectional density/ballistic coefficient which helps retain velocity and buck the wind down range. Within 300 yards though 308 is king which is fine, they both have a purpose and can coexist.
First of all, nice shooting, only thing other than painting over the windage shot that got me is comparing a 130gr 6.5 to a 168gr .308 isn’t exactly a fair comparison. You would expect the 6.5 with a .284 sections density to have a better BC than a 308 with a .262 sectional density. Somewhere around .488 on the 6.5 vs .450 on the .308. That said a 180gr .308 and a 130gr 6.5 have almost identical sectional density (both at .28) and would be a much more even comparison on how accurate the round is. The conclusion should be they are almost identical even at 1000 yards with less than 0.15 MOA elevation difference and only around 16 FPS difference.
Sectional density doesn't matter when there's no wind to deflect which the 308 was shooting dead air. Sure it retains better velocity but good hand loads and good bullets can easily compensate and repeat drop, drift is the only variable it is disadvantaged in.
Im not really impressed with Savage barrel quality mainly since they are non concentric which would make very long shots somewhat unpredictable but overall they are great rifles and with some handloading can definitely deliver. Thanks for watching!
At 6:33 your first hit was at 3 O clock....why didn't you measure that shot when you measured your group? And why 8 shots? Did you throw 3 out and count the best 5?
Yes sirrrrrrrr! That Creedmore is a full second faster and consistently dead on! Whyyyyy that is one dead target!🎯 That deer did not like the smell of that paint or saw the front of the target lol! Gud job dude! 👏
Savage has little over the tikka ... an on-brand head-to-head would be much more betterer ..... ;) ...and, and BOOO! for not measuring that 1st creedmore shot, it was WAAAAY more out that the 308 spread! :D :D Thanks for the upload ;)
Great shooting. However, those are 2 totally different rifles. I agree with American patriot. Like comparing apples to oranges really. Good shooting though. Thanks for sharing..
No brainer, the 6.5 has an MOA wind constant of about 18 and the 308 is about 9 . In other words, the 6.5 takes half the wind favor that the 308 needs in any given wind. Thus, unless you can discern a 1 to 3 mph wind direction change and no one can the groupings with 6.5 will always be smaller..Also a 140 grain 6.5 bullet will get to a greater distance nose-on than a 168 grain 308 bullet. From a 22 inch barrel the 168 grain SMK 308 bullet will not even get to the 1000 yard line nose-on except in ideal conditions. It’s why the 175 SMK is preferred in NRA Long Range Competitions, Service Rifle Division.
First of all 6.5cm has roughly 20-30% less windage of the 308 not exactly half as you have stated, ive done alot of shooting with these two cartridges and im pretty confident to say that 308 will definitely be very capable of reaching minimum of 1500 yards nose on target, ive shot my 308 with 168gt tmk up to 1200 with no issues whatsoever, the advantage 6.5 has on 308 is its bullet design with low density and vld construction allowing it resist drag and wind with less effort. Thanks for watching!
@@Syxtus_outdoors comparing a 168 grain 308 to a 140 grain 6.5 MOA wind constant is a 9 to an 18 at 1000 yards (24 inch bbl) meaning half wind favor. Second an M852 round fired from a 22 inch bbl M14 can barely get to 1000 yards nose-on in ideal conditions. It’s why M118 and M118LR are used at 1000. BTW, I mostly shoot in NRA Long-Range Competition, .223 Service Rifle, 6.5/284, and 308 Match Rifle and Any/Any Divisions. The 6.5/284 from my 28 inch barrel has an MOA wind constant of 22 at 1000 yards, thus, in prevailing conditions, it’s like shooting a laser. On the other hand, the .223, even shooting 80 grain VLDs, is a major wind counter effort to post Master Class scores.
It’s more like comparing two rifles instead of the 6.5 and 308. What would be a better comparison is to use the same make and model of rifles in each caliber.
Oh really lmao
@@Syxtus_outdoors oh yea really. If you want to compare the difference between two cartridges it’s best to use the same barrel length and same rifles to keep it about the cartridges not the rifles.
@@Syxtus_outdoors I second Patriot's comment. There's a reason precision shooters prefer after market chassis and pistol grips. Makes a noticeable difference.
I agree with you 100%. I like my AK a lot more than I like my AR. I will tell you the 223 round is much better round that the 7.62. I have shown a few people the supremacy of the AK in an urban battlefield when I was teaching then how to shoot in Arizona. If you take an AR platform in 223 and compare it with the AR platform in the 7.62. The 223 will out perform the 7.62.
If anyone reading this has any questions then I will answer it. If you ask a dumbass question you get a dumbass answer.
Indeed, a proverbial "apples to oranges" comparison. As a staff engineer at NIST (National Institute of Standards & Technology) great pains and considerations to reduce equipment deviation is necessary to achieve five sigma results. I have an Accuracy International AE MKIII on its second barrel in .308 Win that groups almost identically as a friends Surgeon Scalpel in 6.5 Creedmoor.
1st 6.5 just caught the right edge that was magically painted over when we saw the group. But you did group 5 after that. Just goes to show that no matter the round, skill at wind calling is critical for long range with any round.
Reading wind is everything.
I thought the same thing lol
Thought the same thing, what happened to the flyer?
Yeap it magically disappeared. So be fair about it. I guess that's y all of the extra shots were taken with the creedmore
He took a shot with the 308 without the downrange camera set up nor the spotting scope. Without explanation it could be just reading wind before executing the group for each caliber. You notice in the audio and video of each group there is noticeable wind in the 6.5 group, where the 308 was dead quiet and still. If the first shot holding center is far right on the plate, 308 or 6.5 doesn't matter, it stands to reason why someone would make a scope adjustment or hold left so your group stands on the target. It was clear the 6.5 was drilling it even with the wind, which likely meant he was extremely lucky the wind helped the group or the wind was extremely consistent along with the rifle.
That deer walking into view of the target was PRICELESS!!!! Like Mother Nature calling "Dinner Delivery!" LOL
At about the 6:39 mark the first hit using 6.5 was noted to be on the far right aspect of the target approximately at the midpoint vertical axis. This was not measured at the end of the video and appeared to have been painted over. Why is that?
I apologize, I missed the comment where it was explained. Thank You
@@ghostfire319 yes it was a windage shot, wind has picked up quite a bit from shooting 308 series.
Saw that too
I have both 308 and 6.5 set up for long range... but I can't shoot with you brother.... that's about what I do at 6-700 yards... your sniper material
Your 308 is just inferior except with price per round. Admit it. Took me a while too. You'll come around lol
your precision is just insane
A deer and double rainbow. Looks like the start of a Disney movie.
Hahaha...nearly became the star of field and stream😅
That deers reaction was hysterical ! ' wait, what that? It looks like that guy is shooting at this metal thing.. I'm outta here! '
I would still take the .308 because I would never be able to shoot anything past 150 yards here in it southeast due to vegetation. .308 as we all know is easier to find and cheaper. If you target shoot to 1000 yards, 6.5 makes sense. Great video and excellent shooting.
In Arizona during the 90's I worked for the state corrections and was the number 1 sniper for the little prison in Globe/Miami. We got the 2nd hand Remington model 700 308 from the Phoenix prison as a hand me down as they got new weapons and later that year in mid Summer there was a state wide corrections tactical support unit (TSU) competition. Now I had shot guns as a kid in the 60's, 70's and up to the 90's but never in a competitive event. I came in second after having a miss fire. Told that was it and about 10 rounds later as me and my spotter are putting our weapons in the cave we are told they have been during the sniper shoot all wrong and we have another chance! So we run back up the hill. I'm using a winter army jacket for a ground pad. It's mid summer in Winslow, Arizona. The gravel of the gun range is Hot! Plus we are the bastard step child of the main prison of Phoenix. We get no money for new things we just make do. So my ground pads a winter jacket and my head cover is the same damn thing! And boy it's hot. Plus I'm going to shoot a cold barrel against hot. At the end of the day I came in 2nd with a shoot off at 100 yards at 1in squares for the best group. It was a choice of 3 boxes and they called which box to start shooting in 5 seconds or less. 5 rounds in 10 seconds. 1st place beat me by a hair. I mean that. A hair. Back then we had about 20 officers to choose for TSU. Phoenix had all most 70 for their team. We placed 2nd for our Shotgun Team also. I loved that 308. First time shooting it before the competition and after. I got a few now. Love the caliber.
Thanks for sharing your story it was an interesting read.
308 is sure a very capable and fun to shoot cartridge its still one of my favorites, with new vld and eld bullets it certainly got a new lease on life.
Thanks for watching!
That 6.5 grouping was gnarly.
6.5 creed eas perfected to be more efficient in its class ! It has to have 1/8 twist to stabilize the elongated 140 grain bullet so it can stabilize the round to reach its maximum potential .
this a cool fact, thanks for sharing!
Talented shooter but far from a fair comparison, a chassis with pistol grip and a muzzle brake on the 308 would make it a little fairer if not using two of the same rifles chambered in each calibre with similar loads would be an ideal comparison. A penetration comparison at this distance would yield a different opinion too.
Me thinks we have a Creedmoor hater in the house...
My take is that it reflects well on the accuracy of the 308 in a hunting rifle. Good shooting, no matter what.
I think it reflects fake news
That 6.5 was ringing beautifully. Loved the impact sound with it.
I really enjoyed this. I was timing the flight time of both. The .308 was an average of ~1.68 seconds. The 6.5mm was an average of ~ 1.4 seconds. I have a Savage model 12 with a boyds stock and a Vortex Diamondback scope. I'm just barely getting into hand loading as well. As a fairly new long distance shooter I was very impressed that you knew exactly what to dial in on your elevation for 1,000 yards. Looked like there was no wind that day. I was also really amused at that deer when it smelled something it didn't like. You probably could have had a decent kill shot with the Creedmore. I know it's too far but the accuracy was there. Great video. Thanks
Don Parker thanks for watching i really appreciate your comment.
Having precision rifle and hand loading definitely makes it more enjoyable to shoot and getting really tight groups in the process, the difference between customized load and factory ammo is quite obvious in accuracy especially at longer ranges.
You were very close in your times for bullet flight for each calibers being off just by fractions of the second, very good observation im very impressed!
As for deer in the picture it was spooked by mhbscent on the camera which was few feet away from the target, i didn't have tags so it wasn't possible to harvest it also being out of season and at 1000 yards wouldn't be 100% ethical to do so.
There was slight wind during 308 series but has picked up drastically an hour later when 6.5 creedmoor was shot.
Thanks for watching and good luck in your reloading experience!
@@Syxtus_outdoors Question for you. Since I barely know what I'm doing, can I ask you what bullets and propellent you used for the 1,000 yard shots with the .308? I started doing this when practically nothing is available for reloads so i just got what what I could get. I'm using Hornady 150 gn SST bullets and Hornady 168 gr BTHP match bullets with IMR 4895 powder and Lapua brass. I'm loading the 168 gr bullets with 42 gn's of powder and the 150 gr bullets with 45.2 gr's of powder.
@@donparker1823 for my 308 im running 168gr Sierra tmk with 42.9gr of varget and lapua brass its a target bullet, it shoots sub moa at 100 yards. Good luck.
Deer was smelling where had been there & Also probably smelled the fresh paint as well
Wet paint..spooked it my guess
that group with the 6.5 Creedmoor is exceptionally great.
Except for that first shot on the far right side of the target that disappeared.
@@patrickingram2098 read earlier- it was a windage shot since the wind had picked up between the two tests
Almost Unbelievable exceptionally great !
TBH the majority of those 6.5 CM shots fell within a 3-4 inch group, which is truly remarkable at 1,000 yds.
Its pretty amazing how accurate that 6.5cm tikka is, plus combined with stellar load it doesn't get much better than that.
Thanks for watching!
You are a good shooter man ! Little jealous of your spot where I live I struggle to find long range open areas
Thanks man, it's hard to find places to shoot for sure.
Crazy to see the arch.
The 6.5 Creedmore was designed with bullets for longer range shooting. Recently attention has been given to .308 bullets to increase their BC. The Berger Juggernaut BC is .55. The Lapua 155 gr Scenar is a more efficient .308 bullet. Comparing the two calibers should be done with modern high BC bullets. The 6.5 undoubtably holds the edge but with modern high BC bullets, the .308 can work at 1000 yds negating the need for a new rifle. 1000 yds is also not a hunting distance, just a target distance.
Excellent video, images, info, sequences...100/100 !!! Thanks for share. Nice the 6.5 Creedmore performing
It's ok to have a favorite. Also, I think the Berger bullets are superior to the sierra match king bullets. Personally, I'd love to have a creedmore but since i already have everything to handload 308 and a pretty decent Ruger 308, I can't justify spending the extra cash for the creed. Nice to see a good video, love the bullet trace.
Thanks for watching!👍
One of the few things that people don't tell you about 6.5 creed is that it burns out your barrel fast. About 4-6k rounds later. whereas the 308 win will last 20k rounds.
Didn’t realize that 🙌
Dude that group is incredible. I would say that's probably a 4-5 inch group for sure. You had that one low and then put 4-5 in the same spot. That's incredible. My dad has the tac a1 too and I had a 3-3.5 inch group at 460. He's gotta bipod on it now. I wanna try to load it and see how I do then. Great shooting!
Even the group with the .308 was spectacular. 1000 yards is a looooong way
Thanks man that Tikka is an amazing rifle ive never shot anything more accurate than this.
@@Syxtus_outdoors me either! The action is just insane too!
No question, the Creedmoor round is better at long ranges. As for the .308, the bullet isn't all that different from the 30-o6 I competed with back in 1963, and we used 165gr boattail bullets.
Oh, and iron sights! Custom machined to a smaller aperture, but still iron sights.
Rifles, match grade M1 Garand for the first few matches, then match grade M14s, the first time to my knowledge that the rifle was used in competition. We used Fr Riley KS ranges, and after a full day of shooting my right cheek was swollen and my shoulder was seriously bruised!
For me if it’s a choice of 6 mm up to 308 cal out to 600 yards I pick the 6.5 x 55 in 140 or 150 gr factory load , sweet shooting round , very similar ballistics to the creedmoor out to 600 yards
Damn its sharp to see the bullets going down range,,,,the 6.5 didnt have quiet the arch,,id still rather have the 308 tho,,,just me
It’s not really fair to run a test against a 308 stock model with a precision 6.5 nor is it fair to use different types of ammo either. You want a fair comparison get 2 identical savage rifles in different calibers with the same brand and type of ammo and then you can call it fair
Maybe do some reading on guns first before typing your comments.
@@Syxtus_outdoors The gun and round comparison is good, I think you could have put a better group down on the .308. You had more time and movement off of the gun the way you were reloading, I think had you stayed on the gun during reloads your very good .308 group would have been closer to the 6.5 group. Still great shooting though.
@@kenbrown873 there was alot of unnecessary movement i agree, it has been corrected since i made the video, the 308 is still a great round for all types of shooting what really separates these two cartridges is vertical drop at longer ranges which wasn't mentioned in the video.
At 1000 yards 6.5 has only 26 moa drop where 308 is at 33 so quite a substantial difference, 6.5 beats 308 in windage quite easily as well.
Thanks for watching.
@@Syxtus_outdoors I agree both are great rounds, I have not shot much in recent years but I am looking to get back into shooting. My first thought was .308 and honestly didn't even consider anything else until I started looking into different gun manufactures and saw a lot of 6.5 being featured. Main reason I watched your video is I am heavily leaning toward the Tikka, I don't see many options as good for that price. My shooting past was .270 and .30 06, I love the .270.
looks like you have them both sighted in very well...thats very good shooting !
Both rifles shoot amazing with hand loads, thanks for watching.
That's why the 6.5 Creedmoor is KING
To be a more effective comparison you should have shot from same rifle manufacturer, same bullet manufacturer try to keep everything as close to even as possible. Still the 6.5 will shoot flatter, but on the receiving end..the 308 has the power.
Some noise in the comments about the 175gr doing better in the 308. Probably true, that's why I load 175gr in my hand loads for long range 308, and 208 and 220 in my 30-06. But it doesn't make enough difference to invalidate these results. In 2019 the Army tested 175gr 7.62N vs 6.5C and concluded that the Creedmoor doubled the probability of first round hit at 1000Yd. While it's true that the 6.5C isn't black magic (This kind of trajectory benefit was well known from the ballistically identical 100+ year old 6.5x55 S). The reason the 6.5 was dropped by some militaries was the desire to make penetrator cored, tracer and incendiary bullets. Notice how long for caliber those specialty rounds are for 5.56mm and you can see why there was just no real stretch available in the already very long for caliber 6.5mm 140gr bullet. But if you are shooting big game and it's not wearing level 4 and you don't care whether it catches fire after you shoot it 6.5C is hard to beat. And it is so mild shooting it also makes a really nice fun to shoot long range plinker.
I have tried both 168gr and 175gr projectiles in 308 and went with 168s due to the fact that sd and es numbers were lower for these and as we know in long range shooting its paramount for any kind of consistency and predictability.
Thanks for your input and happy shooting.
Anyone notice that the first 6.5 creedmoor shot was at 0/10 but that mark wasn’t visible in the up close measurements?
He really wanted the Criedmore to perform better, even covered up the impact with paint.
@@malJohann don't be upset, a test shot is standard especially with the wind picking up where it was non-existent on the previous group. He also shot a test shot for 308 that wasn't recorded by the down range camera. 6.5 was drilling it even with the bit of wind, also maybe the 6.5 rifle is just a better shooter.
Though I agree with it should be the same rifle to compare shells, impressive none the less
what happened to the hit that hit on the right side of the target? I think you sprayed white paint on it to make the group smaller
It was dismissed as a first shot, i adjusted windage and shot additional 2 shot to compensate for that.
It's like taking a bogey on the first hole....
This whole video was a waste of my time and sheer proof that you are a fan of the 6.5 as was stated rifles should have been apples to apples as well as ammo and to not state the first shot omision shows intent to hide it. I call BS.
Love the mulligan! Great shooting
@@elih6045 u wasted more time by typing your stupid comment!
People say 6.5 creed is better. Yes you’re right ballistic wise. I like 308 because I can afford to shoot 2 rounds for every 1 round of 6.5 creed. The amount of practice and repetition I get will transfer over to 6.5 creed.
The cost $/round evens out when you get into reloading where components such as bullets powder etc are identical in price.
True, but the vast majority of people don’t reload.
@@menumlor9365 factory prices are the nearly the same for premium ammo. 308 just has more affordable plinking ammo which is great for getting trigger time.
Something is messed up your first shot was at 3clock with the creedmoor ,and when u went up it was gone painted over,someone is kidding there self Lmao joke
Let’s just forget that first Creedmore hit. :)
Everything about this production is great. However, it would have been cool to use the audio for the hit from the far away camera so we could hear the delay from 1000 yards. The delayed "bong" from the steel is one of my favorite parts of long range videos
If you listen really carefully you can hear the delayed gong sound its about 1.5s after bullet hits the steel.
Do you watch MarkandSamafterwork? I counted 5 seconds flight time in a recent vid. And that was only around 2300 yards, he has longer range hits. Incredible.
@@slatsgrobneck7515 yes, that is a wonderful channel
Clearly he shot a superior Tikka against an inferior Savage 308 win. Still the 308 shot well. Overall I believe the 308 is better and so does the military.
100% agree.
A Tika is a far superior gun to the Savage. Like to see thai head to head Savage or Tika for true cartridge comparison
Love those vapor trails.
Great shooting. I guess the first one that was almost off the target at 6.30 minute mark was your slighter for the 6.5. Still great shooting. I found the OTM 130gr box Berger ammo was producing sub MOA results at 1000 in my 6.5. Heck it was so good I just bought several boxes. I have the 6.5 rifle is the same as your 308.
Yes the first shot from 6.5 was a windage shot, those 130gr otms are amazing, thanks for watching and happy shooting.
Next, he's going to compare a Porsche to a chevy cruze.
The very first shot with Creedmore was on right side edge of plate. What happened to that when you measured.? The Creedmore also appears to be in a waty better chasis then the stock of the 308. Will also help with group size
Ignore the naysayers. I'd say good shooting. Most people would struggle to have that grouping at 500yds much less 1000. Thanks for posting! Keep it up and here's a suggestion: Make more videos like this one!
Thanks, it definitely takes time to shoot tight groups at long distance and then you have all these whiners complaining about a single shot just blows my mind!
Thanks for watching!👍
Sure he didn't either
Most people would struggle but not any shooting in Master or High Master Class of NRA Long-Range Competition in essentially a prevailing wind condition. Virtually all of these shooters can keep all of their shots inside 10 inches at 1000 yards shooting with irons and sling support. It’s why the NRA had to produce a target with a smaller X-Ring to eliminate ties in F Class Competition where shooters shoot from rest and with optic.
Correction - 150 yards.
The video was entertaining to watch, but I don't think your methodology was sound. Two different rifles, two different bullets, different wind conditions, 5 shots with 308, 8 shots with the 6.5 and you discounted and painted over your furthest shot before measuring the 6.5 group (if you had shot 3 more 308 rounds and ignored the furthest one, would the 308 group have shrunk?)...
The world knows that the 6.5 Creedmoor is a "better" long range round. Although entertaining, this video didn't do anything to demonstrate the actual superiority of the 6.5 CM, if anything it made the 308 Winchester look really good!
I'm not trying to be a webdink/troll, I'm just trying to put these results into perspective.
Thanks for your efforts, Cheers!
Thanks for positive criticism, im not an expert on TH-cam production by any means and i wish some things were done differently but then again everything is a learning process.
As always i appreciate a good input on how to improve things in the future, when it comes to both rifles they both shoot sub moa on paper at 100 yards and thought of it as a fair comparison but there is hundreds of factors that will obviously separate them and make them superior to each other, 6.5cm has that advantage of being well engineered cartridge over one thats nearly 70 years old so it will come down to numbers.
Thanks for watching!
@@Syxtus_outdoors Thanks for your thoughtful response. I reread my comment, and despite my best effort, I still ended up sounding like douchebag.
It's a good video! Way better than any video I've ever posted...ZERO!
I just recognized how it could have been better with a few simple changes. I think you are onto something good and I encourage you to continue.
Don't hesitate to ignore jerks like me... or, do it again, this time with gel blocks!
Cheers
@@EdAb no worries man, everyone has a right to voice their opinion and i get it! Enjoy your day and happy shooting!
What happen to the first 6.5 round it looked to be at 4 o'clock. I personally like the. 308. Great video 📹
First shot out of the 6.5cm was off due to not accounting for the wind so i didn't include it and painted it over, thanks!
Does anybody else immediately start measuring breaths when he pulls the video box with the target up? Autonomic response is funny 😃
Yep.
Creedmoor haters unite. I think the cartridge has more than proven itself by now. Get over it, people. It is here to stay. Many former military snipers are starting to sing its praises.
😅😅😅 that deer is like " hell no" I'm not crossing that.😅
Two completely different rifle set ups...not an accurate comparison...just saying
Am I the only one that saw the first shot flier with the 6.5 that was spray painted over right before he measured?
Never did like any 168 Sierra on the 1000 yard line. Normally I use 168 Hornady 42.0 grains IMR4895. When the wind picks up, I switch over to Lake City M118 173 grain special ball. That group is the same as my 1-10 twist M1A Super Ultra Match with open sights.
My 308 loves 168gr sierras and im just over 42gt of varget on that load it all depends on a gun.
The creedmoor appeared to have a much lower arc than did the 308. Great shooting, well done.
The 6.5 creedmoor has better range than a 308, but not the knock down power as the 308.
@@dannyray8719 Anything that I have shot with my creedmoor drops dead as a stick. It certainly seems more than adequate for the medium size game I have used it on.
@@whiskeytango9769 Didn't say it doesn't just saying the 308 has a little more knock power, the 6.5 was designed to go further than the 308, which it does quite well. My friend has a creedmoor, it's what he hunts deer with. I went with the 308, because of the ability to find ammo. The creedmoor is kinda a new round not as easy to find. I mostly hunt with my 300 blackout mostly, it's much lighter than my 308.
What happened to the first shot with the 6.5. did you take out your flyer on the edge to keep the group smaller?
I couldn't imagine being doped in to a target at 1000 and see a deer walk up to the plate and not actually take that shot. you sir have great self control
If i pulled the trigger on that deer it probably wouldn't be on TH-cam.
He never even mentioned the deer! Great self control and discipline
That would be easy to pass up, had some more growing to do.
This passes summer I had a 6, two 8, a large 12 walk out on the place my buddy and I shoot. Every time between 800 and 1000 yards. We had been practicing all year shooting clay pigeon's at these distances. Funny part is the 6 and 8's would just look around after the shots. Not the 12. None would run. Not even the does. Just mosey into the timber casually. We had to seize fire on the turkey picking around our targets. My buddy hunted I did not. He took 2 doe at 700 yards with his Christensen arms Ridgeline 300 W.M.
I was practicing with a stock Savage m10 heavy barrel 308 & 175 SMK in Lapua brass and Savage stealth ba m10 6.5 creedmoor 147 ELDM in Lapua brass. The 308 is a tack driver. Really hard to believe what it has done, but some is recorded. Just got the 6.5 so still figuring it out and setting it up. So far I like the 6.5 creedmoor but I'm bald and shaven. So i can't grow a man bun.🤣😂
Years ago i was working up some loads at the range and there were these 2 geese that hung around there. Well that day they kept walking past my target at 100 yards there heads dead on the bullseye, wouldent even have had to move the rifle. it was funny, l would wait for them to walk by and they weren't afraid of the shots, happend many times. Had a 36 power scope so got a good look at them. Didnt even think of shootin them .Fun day at the range.
Thanks for the demonstration!
The Creedmoor is not too bad? Center target, 1,000 plus yards, 6 inch group? Holy cow. Speaking of cows what the hell was going on in the pasture? A wolf attacking a cow? That was weird.
No wolves there haha! It was a calf playing with some large plastic piece, thanks for watching!
Did you paint over the first hit from the 6.5 which was 3’oclock right edge?
Wonderful. The 6.5 had a right drift in first Salvo. Look from closer it wasn't there.
Sick wit it !! 6.5 Creed is really Greedy @1k. Now I know what I must "DO".
Damn nice group on the 6.5.... I love mine so much I bought another LOL
Dude, you were throwing darts with that Creedmoor.
I just recently watched a Ron Spoolmer video comparing the. 308 Win versus the 6.5 Creedmoor out to that distance.
He was talking about the bullet drop based on chart calculations with the .308 Win being about 93". And about 68" with the 6.5 Creedmoor. Both weapons being fired from a range of about 1000 yards.
He preferred the 6.5 Creedmoor over the .308 Win for the very reason that was demonstrated here.
Impressive, to say the least! 👏
Seeing is believing!
By the way, I just subscribed to your channel as well.
Thanks for watching, my bullet drop for 308 is 33 moa and for 6.5cm is at 26moa so quite less dialing up and less margin for errors, i prefer 6.5cm as well its a well balanced cartridge especially in windy conditions.
my 308's drop about 430 inches at 1000 yd and are going subsonic right around the 820 yard mark with a drop of 220 inches or about 7.5 MILS. I can hit the 1000 yard targets at my local range but the e-target won't pick up subsonic bullets. The bullet trace is going right through the black. I just have too short of a barrel to get the velocity I need.
Regardless of calibre, an 11" group at 1000 yards is excellent marksmanship. I guess, to be truly scientific about the test, it would be two tikkas, same model. Regarding the science behind this test, I know that Tikka/Sako test every single barrel for sub moa accuracy, before leaving the factory? Do Savage do this? Point is, if Savage test for moa accuracy and tikka test for sub moa, considering the rifles you have used in the video, it's a draw 🤔
100% gotta say the creedmoor there. He pulled the very first shot, all the others were right on the money.
Or cbs after clean…..
It wasn't pulled; he had to change the sight due to wind.
Fine shooting. Best part of the video is that sunset. Thanks for a great vid.
Love the Tikka and amazed at your grouping!
It's being debated in some states to ban the 6.5 for deer hunting! Doesn't leave a good enough blood trail even on good shots at 300 yds or less!! Too much lost game!!
$1939 Tikka vs $679 Savage (first search sales result). I'd sure hope the Tikka gave better groups.
First of all that was excellent shooting on both rifles.
I wouldn't have called the 6.5 more accurate on this particular day because this comparison was totally unfair to the .308 - And because the video description calls this a 5 shot accuracy comparison of these calibers in general, I have to play devils advocate.
The tikka has a superior trigger, a precision chassis, a muzzle brake, adjustable length of pull, adjustable comb, a real pistol grip, more appropriate ammo selection, and overall cost almost 3x as much as the savage. $2200 rifle VS an $800 rifle with a plastic field stock...
A more fair ammo selection would have been the 130gr 6.5 bergers vs the 178gr .308 hornady ELD-Xs which are significantly more efficient at 1000 yards than the sierra 168s.
The 6.5's group was not 6 inches. He painted over the first shot of the group, he fired 8 shots instead of 5 like the 308, and the 308 was all in one take, whereas the 6.5 was not. The video also cut right after 8:00, it could've been while waiting for better weather, it could have been nothing, but it was cut and the .308's clip was not. To me, with the painting of the first shot along with the difference of investment, this indicates a clear bias for the 6.5. Maybe if you make up the rules yourself you can say it was 6 inches, but in any competition that first shot would've counted. Measuring the pixel width of the .308 group on the screen and the pixel width of the 6.5's actual 5 shot group, they appeared 0.1 - 0.2 MOA of each other.
Also, I don't own either of these calibers, so I don't have a bias or incentive to make one appear superior. I'm just giving credit where credit is due.
I think it's only fair to compare two identical rifles using the most ballistically efficient ammo available for the task at hand for each caliber.
You have valid points.
chase, can you make your own video please. not trying to sound like a dick but i really want to see what you're talking about, I believe uyou.
Five feet of drop in elevation on the .308
The 6.5 shoots a little flatter and with a little less windage adjustment.
If your using a 168 g .308 win verse a 142g 6.5
Nice shooting dude, I only wish I have somewhere like that to practice.
Thanks, it feels really great to come out and shoot without being bothered by anyone.
WEe used the M-14 in 7.62 x 51mm in vietnam with star light scope. Very deadly weapon at night time. 69th armor 4th div.
I would really like to try one of these guns!
Great shooting - BTW the .308 barrel will last 5 times longer than the creed . creed was developed as a target shooting round , call it the Dodge Viper . 308 is the Ford F150 of the Bolt action world imho
F150s are made of aluminum and far from a benchmark of longevity/dependability.
I was out when you said Ford F-150 , for some reason it made me want to bend over and spit ??
Thanks glad you enjoyed it!
Why would the barrel last longer? That doesn’t seem to make sense if the materials are similar in both.
That does only say, hey I’m a hillbilly or I’m a new money guy, for me both a no no. In the end it’s just what you comfortable with.
criticisms about the methodology aside, for the money that Savage is not bad. especially if you discard the most distant hit.
Im not sure what the fascination is comparing the 308w and 6.5, when the 308w shoots much heaver bullets with less BC vs high BC 6.5. Both have similar powder volumes.
Wouldn't the 7mm o8 with 140 gr VLD be a better comparison.
.260
Here’s something that’s actually meaningful to a long range competitor, the 6.5, having almost twice the MOA wind constant of the 308, means the 6.5 has half the wind deflection from an un-countered full value 1 mph wind change. At 1000 yards it’s a 5 inch displacement vs. a 10 inch displacement. And, since the X-Ring on a 1000 yard target is 10 inches in diameter it means more X-Ring hits when shooting the 6.5 rather than when shooting a .308. Remarks are comparison of 140 grain 6.5 match round to 175 Grain .308 match round from 24 inch barrel, typical of semi autos brought to the long line.
Interesting and food for though. Bit sceptical of your figures so I am researching. Cheers
How come he didn't measure to the 1st bullet 1st bullet the hit on the right hand side of the target with the 6.5 creed more.....🤔 Actually it was painted over when he did his grouping....
6.5 takes almost half the MOA wind constant of the 308, meaning bullet displacement from a 1 mph wind at 1000 yards will move a 140 grain 6.5 bullet about 5 inches from point of aim while the 175 grain 308 bullet will move about 10 inches from point of aim. Now, since the tie breaking X-Ring on a 1000 yard target is 10 inches in diameter the 6.5 always wins. But thing is the 6.5 has about a 1000 round barrel life while the 308 might go 10,000 rounds, thus for long range practice and development of wind reading skills the 308 is the winner.
I don't where you got the stats for 308 but my ballistic calculator doesn't exactly show half the windage between these 2 calibers
@@Syxtus_outdoors the key word is ABOUT half, which it is comparing M118LR to a 140 grain 6.5 match loading from 24 inch barrel length. The point is this, a 1-3 wind can not be discerned, except from smoke, so a shooter firing at the NRA Long-Range Target with a .308 is going to have fewer X-Ring hits due to uncountered wind and thus loose to a equally capable marksman who is shooting a 6.5 even though both shooters have identical scores.
@@charlesludwig9173 sure 30 cal just can't compete against the 6.5cm its very obvious, from my experience 6.5cm is way more consistent and predictable in any wind than any 30 caliber.
@@Syxtus_outdoors yes indeed. The 308 is better for long range training and barrel life but since wins in long range matches at high master level requires perfect scores and high X counts I am taking the 6.5 to the firing line or I am shooting in Service Rifle division with a .223 AR-15 just for the extraordinary skill development it requires just to stay in the 10 ring.
Love how he spray painted over his first shot of 6.5 so it didn’t ruin the group. Quality content.
Yeah and i love how morons like you bitch and moan about a something so trivial and yet have absolutely nothing to show of their own lmao!!
@@Syxtus_outdoors First shot?
@@Syxtus_outdoors hiw far where you really? 400 meters?
@@jasonshink6589 ask your mom
@@Syxtus_outdoors will do. Your mom goes to college..
Damn good shooting bud!!
Great shooting Ether way , but I would still take the 308 more energy, but the 6.5 is better just for competition shooting long distance.
Well actually because of the efficiency of 6.5 creed our past 400 yards with most bullets it retains more energy than the .308. So if you know you’re shooting at 500 or beyond, you’re getting less energy guaranteed in .308.
@@bardownsnipe I’ll still take a 308 , especially these days , 308 is everywhere. Even if the Russians decide to visit here !?😉lol
The deers spider sense kicked in and it was like nope not today
1. Nice shooting
2. It's always crazy to see how much straighter and faster 6.5 is than .308
precision rifle vs non precision rifle, big difference
Not true...better rifle in 6.5...
Yes but he didnt compare comprable weights. Easily could have got some 130 grain 308s going 3050 ft/sec which is 3 to 400 ft/sec faster than 6.5CM.
Checkout the 110 grainers in 308. Real screamers. 6.5CM can't touch that huntimg power.
@@hoffpbass308 doesn't scream anything at 1000 yards. If you go down in bullet weight, you gain muzzle velocity but both your examples become would put bullet into transonic or subsonic speeds at/around 1000 yards. The 130 berger otm hybrid used here if launched at 2800 fps will still be traveling supersonic for another 300 yards. 308 has a little more case capacity but not enough to compensate for bullet sectional density/ballistic coefficient which helps retain velocity and buck the wind down range. Within 300 yards though 308 is king which is fine, they both have a purpose and can coexist.
what happened to the first shot with the 6.5 ? it seems to have disappeared .
Uh....... what happened to the first round with the 6.5. It barely hit the target, yet somehow was never recorded.
Your first shot was almost off the plate he must have spray-painted it
Looked to be nearly ideal conditions. Good shooting!
I love that camera and your shooting is great. Thanks for an awesome vid. Thumbs up.
Thanks, glad you enjoyed.
what about your 1st shot with the 6.5? almost off target, suddenly gone when closeby!!!!
First of all, nice shooting, only thing other than painting over the windage shot that got me is comparing a 130gr 6.5 to a 168gr .308 isn’t exactly a fair comparison. You would expect the 6.5 with a .284 sections density to have a better BC than a 308 with a .262 sectional density. Somewhere around .488 on the 6.5 vs .450 on the .308. That said a 180gr .308 and a 130gr 6.5 have almost identical sectional density (both at .28) and would be a much more even comparison on how accurate the round is. The conclusion should be they are almost identical even at 1000 yards with less than 0.15 MOA elevation difference and only around 16 FPS difference.
Maybe you can show us how its done in your video!
Sectional density doesn't matter when there's no wind to deflect which the 308 was shooting dead air. Sure it retains better velocity but good hand loads and good bullets can easily compensate and repeat drop, drift is the only variable it is disadvantaged in.
Glad you are shooting the Savage
9+1 rifle. Also known as the model
2+ 16 halved. Great shooting!
99 and one half percent of the
Time!
Im not really impressed with Savage barrel quality mainly since they are non concentric which would make very long shots somewhat unpredictable but overall they are great rifles and with some handloading can definitely deliver.
Thanks for watching!
@@Syxtus_outdoors you are correct. For the guy who hunts
In wooded or rolling terrain they
Get the job done. I give the video
A 9 and 1/2.
At 6:33 your first hit was at 3 O clock....why didn't you measure that shot when you measured your group? And why 8 shots? Did you throw 3 out and count the best 5?
Yes sirrrrrrrr! That Creedmore is a full second faster and consistently dead on! Whyyyyy that is one dead target!🎯 That deer did not like the smell of that paint or saw the front of the target lol! Gud job dude! 👏
Savage has little over the tikka ... an on-brand head-to-head would be much more betterer ..... ;) ...and, and BOOO! for not measuring that 1st creedmore shot, it was WAAAAY more out that the 308 spread! :D :D
Thanks for the upload ;)
That deer was like "oh no, fuck this!"
I love the delay!
Great shooting. However, those are 2 totally different rifles. I agree with American patriot. Like comparing apples to oranges really. Good shooting though. Thanks for sharing..
No brainer, the 6.5 has an MOA wind constant of about 18 and the 308 is about 9 . In other words, the 6.5 takes half the wind favor that the 308 needs in any given wind. Thus, unless you can discern a 1 to 3 mph wind direction change and no one can the groupings with 6.5 will always be smaller..Also a 140 grain 6.5 bullet will get to a greater distance nose-on than a 168 grain 308 bullet. From a 22 inch barrel the 168 grain SMK 308 bullet will not even get to the 1000 yard line nose-on except in ideal conditions. It’s why the 175 SMK is preferred in NRA Long Range Competitions, Service Rifle Division.
First of all 6.5cm has roughly 20-30% less windage of the 308 not exactly half as you have stated, ive done alot of shooting with these two cartridges and im pretty confident to say that 308 will definitely be very capable of reaching minimum of 1500 yards nose on target, ive shot my 308 with 168gt tmk up to 1200 with no issues whatsoever, the advantage 6.5 has on 308 is its bullet design with low density and vld construction allowing it resist drag and wind with less effort.
Thanks for watching!
@@Syxtus_outdoors comparing a 168 grain 308 to a 140 grain 6.5 MOA wind constant is a 9 to an 18 at 1000 yards (24 inch bbl) meaning half wind favor. Second an M852 round fired from a 22 inch bbl M14 can barely get to 1000 yards nose-on in ideal conditions. It’s why M118 and M118LR are used at 1000. BTW, I mostly shoot in NRA Long-Range Competition, .223 Service Rifle, 6.5/284, and 308 Match Rifle and Any/Any Divisions. The 6.5/284 from my 28 inch barrel has an MOA wind constant of 22 at 1000 yards, thus, in prevailing conditions, it’s like shooting a laser. On the other hand, the .223, even shooting 80 grain VLDs, is a major wind counter effort to post Master Class scores.
That deer runs in halfway through the video like oh hey whats up, what are ya''ll doin out here.. oh wait....
Awesome video. Thanks brother!