This is good info. I have a full roll bar / seat / harness / HNR setup and what Cliff describes is the right way to do it. I would also stress that 4-point belts, unless specifically designed with anti-submarine features, are dangerous. I was at a track day where a person was killed due to submarining under the belts. (Chuckwalla in 2013.) Stay safe out there everyone! 👍
Cliff: I'm a trauma physician and although your anatomy was a little off, this was a great job and accurate for the primary causes of severe injury in a high speed impact. I race as well and it was a good reminder of why even beginner trackers needs to get proper cage, helmet and HANS. 2 thumbs up.
Glad to see you here! Due to past neck and severe arm/breast injury as a non racing regular driver being rear ended, my Osteopath is recommending at the min a 3 point harness. Question for you and Cliff: Would you have any insight on the best way for me to do this? I am looking at a mid size SUV like a RAV4 or a Rogue and curious your thoughts?
Thank you so much for this video! I'm getting an old sports car that predates safety features like airbags or collapsible steering columns, I was considering putting in a harness seat for added safety but it seems like it's better overall to keep the stock 3 point belt and seat unless I was willing to wear a helmet and HANS every time I go for a drive.
The harness angle on the shoulder straps max is 45 degrees according to Motorsport UK and I believe the FIA, which I have mine to the floor at 42 degrees, so you can run them to the floor but be very careful on the angle Another point is if the roof is coming down, you're not ducking to get out of the way, iv been upside down twice, once on a rally and once in my road car, personally you wont know if that roof is coming down nor can you get yourself out if the way due to the G's you are experiencing
Thank you so much for this! I was looking to upgrade the seats in my truck and was debating on harnesses or not and you cleared up everything I was wondering about them!
I appreciate your very clear explanation, I had a few misconceptions about racing harnesses, and also you raised my awareness of risks I had not thought about. Simply put, harnesses are part of complete package of safety mods and should not be installed as a standalone mod.
Im interested on if safety harnesses actually expire or is it a sales ploy. Why is that there is no expiration date on passenger car seat belts because passenger car crashes can be just as brutal as a race car crash.
Great thought so for the track safety harnesses it’s about having them inspected to verify safety and since inspection of a harness and they can be recertified up to I think 3 times. It’s not a sales ploy it’s about safety. Next a replacement hareness isn’t much more expensive then a recertification so most just replace it.
Howdy Cliff Great video! It was not really what I was looking for (wanted to know how to make my 280z 'saver'), but stayed for the good info and good personality (: Much love from Germany Rain
Basilar skull fractures are fatal almost every time crashing with a harness seat belt on is insanely dangerous with out the straps that attach to your helmet to keep your head from snapping forward. And I’m assuming no one with race bucket seats and harness ever is only driving slow…your hauling ass so an accident with a harness like that will be your last drive pretty much.
I have a four point harness strapped to a seat brace bar. Someone said that I might be better off with slack in the shoulder harnesses so that I can fly forward and have the airbag stop me rather than being strapped back and my neck breaking.
Flying forward and then being blown backward again by an explosion doesn't sound like a good idea. There's a reason OEM seatbelts are supposed to lock during an impact, which is to keep you from flying forward. The belt stretches slightly during impact, but that's very different from an instant slack to no-slack movement. Also, slack in the shoulder belts doesn't just allow forward movement, but movement in *any* direction of the whole top half of your body.
I agree, only a lap belt is flat-out dangerous. But given a choice between a 3-point/airbags and only a multipoint harness, I'd choose the prior because of the reasons I gave in the video.
Cliff, would really appreciate it if you would share a video about how you hooked up your racing harness. in the tight quarters of the Cayman it's a bit of a challenge.
I’m interested in installing a racing harness in my daily driver and track car as well. But I don’t want my beck to break. The whole earnheart thing i remember from when I was a kid is why I am not considering it. I don’t wanna have to wear a HANS device and helmet while driving around daily. So do I keep the seatbelt for riding the streets. Just say fuck it and wear the harness ? What’s the answer???
Great question. I’m thinking I’ll loosen the shoulder straps so that I can come forward and pray the air bag punches me in the face to stop me. Sounds better than my head snapping off.
On my Mclaren 600LT, why does my 6 point harness say "For track use only"? If the harness is not safe enough for the street, why should I use it on the track?
When using the harness and locking your body to the seat, your neck will have great injury from an impact. Unless you also have a helmet and HANS device.
Hi Cliff! I had posted a response to another poster’s question, but thought I’d message here too! I was in a few accidents caused by distracted drivers and my doctor says my neck, chest, shoulders were severely injured due to the normal seatbelts in cars, and recommends some kind of harness where there are 2 shoulder straps. Fast forward and I’m getting a new vehicle and thinking about a RAV4 or a Rogue and curious your thoughts? I don’t race, this wouldn’t be heavily used, but want my neck and body to be supported. Also, I am 5’7 and about 240 lbs so I need something that’s comfy where I can also check my blindspots (I would actually wear a helmet and the neck apparatus but not sure how feasible this is for ability to move, plus anything too heavy on my head would be bad for my neck. Would love to know if I can consult with you? Thank you!!!
Honestly the stock 3 point seat belt is probably going to be your best bet. A harness is going to make checking blind spots difficult since they hold you in tight. Plus, I doubt that anyone makes harness/roll bars for the RAV4 or Rogue so you would have to have something custom made.
With owning a factory five GTM (Tubular chassis car) would you recommend a 3 point belt of a 4 point harness for driving on the road? I don’t plan to wear a helmet, have an inch between my head and the roof. Very close to the side window as well. No airbags present.
I have an older single cab pickup. She's kinda slow so definitely not using it on a track but I'd really like a 4 pt harness cuz my 3 pt seatbelt is way too uncomfortable. Would that still be safe considering I have a bench seat and can get a decent angle my mounting it to the wall right behind me?
I'm not sure how you could so completely misunderstand what's presented in this video, but I'm guessing you just decided to comment without actually watching the video. Or even reading the title.
Thanks Cliff. What's your street configuration? Half cage, using 3pt factory belt or harness? I'm assuming no helmet or HANS for street driving. Harness with no HANS = Basal skull fracture?
It's called a Conquer Snell SA2020 Approved Open Face Auto Racing Helmet, I don't think it has an actual model number. The manufacturer's direct outlet is at roadbikeoutlet.com/collections/sa2020
Damn man what went wrong? I saw where he explained if mounted too low it can crush your shoulders downward. He says the harness should not be more than 10 degrees under your shoulder but wouldn’t this still cause your body to go forward which would result in shoulder injury still. I’m doing research right now for long term benefits.
This video is killing many dreams, but might save many lives
This is good info. I have a full roll bar / seat / harness / HNR setup and what Cliff describes is the right way to do it. I would also stress that 4-point belts, unless specifically designed with anti-submarine features, are dangerous. I was at a track day where a person was killed due to submarining under the belts. (Chuckwalla in 2013.) Stay safe out there everyone! 👍
Cliff: I'm a trauma physician and although your anatomy was a little off, this was a great job and accurate for the primary causes of severe injury in a high speed impact. I race as well and it was a good reminder of why even beginner trackers needs to get proper cage, helmet and HANS. 2 thumbs up.
Glad to see you here! Due to past neck and severe arm/breast injury as a non racing regular driver being rear ended, my Osteopath is recommending at the min a 3 point harness.
Question for you and Cliff: Would you have any insight on the best way for me to do this? I am looking at a mid size SUV like a RAV4 or a Rogue and curious your thoughts?
Finally a proper informative all inclusive video on the topic .
Many thanks 🙏🏻 those 10’ may prove life saving for the viewers!
Thank you so much for this video!
I'm getting an old sports car that predates safety features like airbags or collapsible steering columns, I was considering putting in a harness seat for added safety but it seems like it's better overall to keep the stock 3 point belt and seat unless I was willing to wear a helmet and HANS every time I go for a drive.
I really appreciate the logic and science behind the matter being presented in such a direct and succinct manner.
This should have WAY more views. Thank You for spreading the right information. Be safe guys
Thanks for taking the time to explain how safety is a whole set of items. Great stuff!
The harness angle on the shoulder straps max is 45 degrees according to Motorsport UK and I believe the FIA, which I have mine to the floor at 42 degrees, so you can run them to the floor but be very careful on the angle
Another point is if the roof is coming down, you're not ducking to get out of the way, iv been upside down twice, once on a rally and once in my road car, personally you wont know if that roof is coming down nor can you get yourself out if the way due to the G's you are experiencing
Thank you so much for this! I was looking to upgrade the seats in my truck and was debating on harnesses or not and you cleared up everything I was wondering about them!
I appreciate your very clear explanation, I had a few misconceptions about racing harnesses, and also you raised my awareness of risks I had not thought about. Simply put, harnesses are part of complete package of safety mods and should not be installed as a standalone mod.
Couple other items to add. Race seat with head blinders. Most of us run them in GT Cup class. Also side netting. Mostly right side, but we do both.
Im interested on if safety harnesses actually expire or is it a sales ploy. Why is that there is no expiration date on passenger car seat belts because passenger car crashes can be just as brutal as a race car crash.
Keep that ideology and win the Darwin Award
Great thought so for the track safety harnesses it’s about having them inspected to verify safety and since inspection of a harness and they can be recertified up to I think 3 times. It’s not a sales ploy it’s about safety. Next a replacement hareness isn’t much more expensive then a recertification so most just replace it.
they don’t really expire, it’s more about when the next certifications come out, leaving the older equipment “out of date”.
Good video Cliff, thanks.
Howdy Cliff
Great video! It was not really what I was looking for (wanted to know how to make my 280z 'saver'), but stayed for the good info and good personality (:
Much love from Germany
Rain
Sir: you should be a college professor! Amazingly clear explanation.
It's funny you should say that, because I was!
Great video. It’s really hard to find good content on safety like this
so glad you posted this. I did not do the anti sub belt correct and would not know otherwise!
WOW!!! PRO RACING GUIDE!!! Thank you!!!
Basilar skull fractures are fatal almost every time crashing with a harness seat belt on is insanely dangerous with out the straps that attach to your helmet to keep your head from snapping forward. And I’m assuming no one with race bucket seats and harness ever is only driving slow…your hauling ass so an accident with a harness like that will be your last drive pretty much.
Thanks Cliff!
Straight to the point and no BS, I appreciate that.
I have a four point harness strapped to a seat brace bar. Someone said that I might be better off with slack in the shoulder harnesses so that I can fly forward and have the airbag stop me rather than being strapped back and my neck breaking.
Flying forward and then being blown backward again by an explosion doesn't sound like a good idea. There's a reason OEM seatbelts are supposed to lock during an impact, which is to keep you from flying forward. The belt stretches slightly during impact, but that's very different from an instant slack to no-slack movement. Also, slack in the shoulder belts doesn't just allow forward movement, but movement in *any* direction of the whole top half of your body.
spent hours looking around the internet about harnesses and antisub belts, should've just watched your video and be done in 10 minutes!
I’d rather have a harness than a lap belt to be honest Even if I don’t have a role cage if I ever crash the lap belt ain’t gonna do much.
I agree, only a lap belt is flat-out dangerous. But given a choice between a 3-point/airbags and only a multipoint harness, I'd choose the prior because of the reasons I gave in the video.
Cliff, would really appreciate it if you would share a video about how you hooked up your racing harness. in the tight quarters of the Cayman it's a bit of a challenge.
Very good video. Just talked about this in my auto class
So now I got to get a cage
Great video, thank you.
I’m interested in installing a racing harness in my daily driver and track car as well. But I don’t want my beck to break. The whole earnheart thing i remember from when I was a kid is why I am not considering it. I don’t wanna have to wear a HANS device and helmet while driving around daily. So do I keep the seatbelt for riding the streets. Just say fuck it and wear the harness ? What’s the answer???
Great question. I’m thinking I’ll loosen the shoulder straps so that I can come forward and pray the air bag punches me in the face to stop me. Sounds better than my head snapping off.
Great video. Thank you. What helmet do you prefer?
Thanks Learned A Ton
On my Mclaren 600LT, why does my 6 point harness say "For track use only"? If the harness is not safe enough for the street, why should I use it on the track?
When using the harness and locking your body to the seat, your neck will have great injury from an impact. Unless you also have a helmet and HANS device.
@MilesBodzin yup, I did some reading and I agree. I'm not going to use the harness anymore
Hi, what about Schroth ASM 4 point belts? Btw. great video, thanks!
Hi Cliff! I had posted a response to another poster’s question, but thought I’d message here too!
I was in a few accidents caused by distracted drivers and my doctor says my neck, chest, shoulders were severely injured due to the normal seatbelts in cars, and recommends some kind of harness where there are 2 shoulder straps.
Fast forward and I’m getting a new vehicle and thinking about a RAV4 or a Rogue and curious your thoughts?
I don’t race, this wouldn’t be heavily used, but want my neck and body to be supported. Also, I am 5’7 and about 240 lbs so I need something that’s comfy where I can also check my blindspots (I would actually wear a helmet and the neck apparatus but not sure how feasible this is for ability to move, plus anything too heavy on my head would be bad for my neck.
Would love to know if I can consult with you? Thank you!!!
Honestly the stock 3 point seat belt is probably going to be your best bet. A harness is going to make checking blind spots difficult since they hold you in tight. Plus, I doubt that anyone makes harness/roll bars for the RAV4 or Rogue so you would have to have something custom made.
what if i strap the belts to the seat like bolt them in tight?
Killer information
Would it be safe to use a 6 point harness + helmet + HANS with a steering wheel with an airbag?
Thank you!
With owning a factory five GTM (Tubular chassis car) would you recommend a 3 point belt of a 4 point harness for driving on the road? I don’t plan to wear a helmet, have an inch between my head and the roof. Very close to the side window as well. No airbags present.
I have an older single cab pickup. She's kinda slow so definitely not using it on a track but I'd really like a 4 pt harness cuz my 3 pt seatbelt is way too uncomfortable. Would that still be safe considering I have a bench seat and can get a decent angle my mounting it to the wall right behind me?
Are those I bolts on you cage instead of welded tabs?
I actually cant remember. Ill have to look. I have too many toys 😂😂😂😂Why do you ask?
@@carlohiomile wtf.... did you just answer your own question? or are you schizophrenic?
So i have 62 impala no seatbelts and now im better off leaving ot without it 🤦
I'm not sure how you could so completely misunderstand what's presented in this video, but I'm guessing you just decided to comment without actually watching the video. Or even reading the title.
Fantastic Video sir, great job 👍
Great video
Thanks!
Thanks Cliff. What's your street configuration? Half cage, using 3pt factory belt or harness? I'm assuming no helmet or HANS for street driving. Harness with no HANS = Basal skull fracture?
I have both the original 3-point and the 6-point installed. I use the 3-point for street driving.
Good video, what model helmet is that?
It's called a Conquer Snell SA2020 Approved Open Face Auto Racing Helmet, I don't think it has an actual model number. The manufacturer's direct outlet is at roadbikeoutlet.com/collections/sa2020
@@CliffsGarage thanks 👍🏾
Harness killed my buddy. More car guys/girls need to research this...
Damn man what went wrong? I saw where he explained if mounted too low it can crush your shoulders downward. He says the harness should not be more than 10 degrees under your shoulder but wouldn’t this still cause your body to go forward which would result in shoulder injury still. I’m doing research right now for long term benefits.
@@DEATHWISHVQ My friend flew out the window in his z06. Guess the Harness weren't installed properly...
Nice video, but u should not use foldable seat with 6 point belts, thats also fatal in case of a crash.
Ima go.
Amazing work. Super useful info. I will thank you with a like and subscribe
I have a bench in my car. What kind of restraint should I have?
Use your shoe laces. I just throw my balls over the seat brace and tie them in a knot. Works well.