@@WALTERBROADDUS 3 trips... This thing is a trash can made of epoxy carbon fiber, they may never find it. Keep in mind that Carbon Fiber fails without warning and shatters like glass, it is not used for this application by real engineers.
@@nickbreen287 Well, any material can fail. I have the I-95 Mess going on just across town as an example. But it is depth rated then to reach bottom and has done so successfully on 3 trips?
@@WALTERBROADDUS It was 'calculated' to go 4000m, thats real close to the Titanic depth, small margin. It was never tested to failure to real crush depth is unknown, could be much less than 4000m! Carbon Fiber is not like metal, if it gets a thump that can be sufficient to cause a micro fracture that when exposed to 400 bar becomes a macro fracture in a nanosecond. I also hear that there was a whistle blower that claimed the carbon components were not even non-destructively tested. He also claimed they were defective. There is so many odd things about this sub, not good.
Speaking of optimism Sal, my crew was involved in the rescue of 83 persons. A total of aprox 115+ rescued. Only one deceased by drowning. The distressed vessel caught on fire. Everyone was in the water (Gulf of Mexico) at night. When arrived on scene all I could see were flashing individual strobes. My first thought was "How the f**k are we going to rescue all these people?" I immediately switched attitude, and mentally stated, "You start with one."
Thank you for your efforts. This is much different. We should not give up on the 5 soles but this is going to cost the tax payers millions for the greed of few!
@@fishmonger6879 When people have nothing intelligent to add to a conversation they contribute inanities,triteness, and superfluous comments. Sometimes an insult is thrown in for good measure. In the case of the one drowning victim in my event, a fellow co-worker "towed him" to my boat. Personally I knew he was deceased. But I and some of my crew attempted manual resuscitation for approximately 30 minutes.
There is a story I found on google saying someone from the sub’s company was fired because he said the glass on the sub was only rated for 1500 meters and said it needed to be replaced because they were going to 4000 meters and the owner didn’t want to pay for the costs.
@@jackthorton10 I'm betting there's a contract signed agreeing to waive liability for accidental death. Those are not bulletproof though - if you can prove deliberate negligence like ignoring safety concerns from qualified people.
I was a ROV pilot for a Shell project years ago in the gulf of Mexico. We did one of the deepest operations to date. We set a manifold tree at 10,000ft. Shell spent over 1 million dollars for a special nylon rope to lower the tree due to the weight, had to remove the weight of the wire cable.. One use and throw it away. Lots of money in deep sea exploration.
@@sailorgabbie Did my share of salvage ops with Resolve Marine out of Fort Lauderdale FL. Lots of memories. Also I knew Greg Stemm from Odyssey marine out of Tampa. Did a bunch of work in the " treasure salvage ops".
Thank you for your work with ( ROVs) watching growing up on Hood Canal Washington state. The Torpedo Test trial Range. They had 3 Dimension tracking Towers on the bottom. This was before the (YTT class) with ROVs. They LOST Torpedo on the bottom. The Support vessels for Oil platform are not fast, can't just get to area speed wise. They cruise the speed of Tug boats.
@@1STGeneral I did work on the Perdido platform back in the day. I think that's in the block you mentioned. We called the Perdido the stairmeister as it was 20 stories up to get to the galley. Had to be hungry to climb that much. No elevators on that one.
"Sub Brief" Podcaster had some interesting observations about this tragedy. First, he played a video of the submersible being manufactured. The middle round part is strictly wound carbon fiber. Both ends are a titanium alloy which is actually glued to the carbide fiber. He also stated the vessel would not collapse but rather would suddenly shatter under the tremendous pressure. Also, he notes a lack of air quality monitor. Say the air became rich with oxygen, carbide monoxide, etc. How would they know? Also, if there was a fire or short somehow. A fire not only would rapidly spread. There would be no way to exhaust the harmful fumes, etc. He also thought the wireless control for the sub was a major safety hazard. Also, there was no one on board with any kind of depth of experience regarding diving. Another major safety concern.
As someone who works in this field designing research and passenger submersibles, I can unequivocally state that this company was operating well outside the norm. Yes, it is a time consuming and expensive undertaking to class a submersible (we do our classing under ABS , American Bureau of Shipping). However, this is a very necessary undertaking which nearly every other company in this industry does and takes seriously. If you look at the safety record over the last 50 years of submersibles which have undergone proper classing, it is impeccable. OceanGate was irresponsibly operating a submersible which would never have met any accepted global classing standards and this is the result.
@wgowshipping How much would it cost to have people qualified/trained to inspect these types of very unique and experimental vessels? I don't see how it is worth the cost to regulate when it is such a niche market.
I heard the CEO talk in an interview about their hiring and product development practices. One of those practices is to hire new college grads as their principal engineers because they can be inspired. That is about the dumbest criteria you can have to hire engineers doing critical designs that risk people's lives. Whether there are external agencies that have to certify these vessels, as a CEO you have to do the work to ensure safety.
I've heard him say he hired a guy cause he surfed and had an affinity for being in the ocean, or something like that. He mentioned a couple of other examples that I don't recall but were equally laughable.
College engineer grads are the last I would hire in this sort of operating business. I've seen fresh out of college engineer students cut live wires (thankfully 24 vdc)
As two of my favorite maritime people, Sal and Bill Todi (former commander submarine USS Indianapolis) both say, don't forget that the sea is trying to kill you. It is a humbling reminder.
Who? A search for Bill Todi or William Todi either alone or in conjunction with "uss indianapolis" returns NO results. Oh wait, no, there is a Bill Todi on TH-cam. His channel is short zoomer gamplay vids... EDIT: Ok a search on Navsource led me to this. You must've been refering to this guy: CDR. Toti, William Joseph, USN (USNA 1979).
@@stab74 You are correct...and yes, I can't spell! Look up "Unauthorized History of the Pacific War". He is cohost. Very informative if you are a history person.
EVERYTHING is trying to kill you. And when I say everything, I mean the actual textbook definition of "everything". That is no exaggeration either. Even your own body is trying to kill you.
It's somewhat ironic that just as Captain Smith came under scrutiny for his actions and/or lack of them on the Titanic, so will CEO Captain Rush of the OceanGate vessel, Titan. Stockton Rush was certain Titan's Kevlar reinforced Titanium hull would be able to withstand the sea's pressure at Titanic's depth. In 2018, Rush asked an employee, by name of Lochridge, who had submarine worthiness inspection capability to make a report on Titan. Lockridge's report stated that certain "non-destructive" tests be made regularly on the vessel to be sure it would continually survive the dives to the Titanic. Lochridge was fired the next day. Stockton believed that his own designed acoustic and strain gage system on the Titan would pre-warn of hull failure with enough time to surface before disaster. *Note:* I believe that hull failure, perhaps brought about by just a few deep (2.4 mile) dive cycles likely destroyed the vessel. Especially because the touted *new material* of Kevlar reinforced Titanium was *_new and untested for such a purpose_* , it should have been and that will be the focus of the law suits to follow.
I just watched a clip where it showed the people being sealed into the capsule. The guy tightening the 17 bolts around the entrace seal was using a standard craftsman ratchet and box end wrench to tighten the bolts...wtf gajillions of metric tons of pressure and not even a torque wrench, wth lights from camping world and playstation controller that works on Bluetooth that isnt reliable in my bedroom. Stupid all the way around. The titanium ends only held on by precision fitment and epoxy, no mechanical connections... I'm not a billionaire but smart enough to ask a few obvious questions before getting in that death trap with a guy named Stockton Rush
I think you may be right. I think that it had imploded when the Mother Ship lost communication. Even if it didn't implode, they will run out of Oxygen before anyone can get to them - if they are far enough down, no one will be able to get to them. I'm wondering if any Preventative Maintenance/Repair Assessments were done after each successful trip or if they just parked it 'til the next trip.
Agree about hull failure being most likely. I would be willing to bet money it happened at one of the joints where different materials and different shapes meet. Titanium and carbon fiber no doubt respond differently (ie strain) to intense loading. And a hemisphere and a cylinder will also respond differently. I would guess that under these intense pressures the circular bases of the hemispheres are straining OUTWARDS, and the circular ends of the cylinder are straining INWARDS. These critical joints were simple glue joints AFAIK There is a *reason* why most submersibles designed for these depths (Ie Alvin( have had spherical pressure vessels fabricated from a single material. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSV_Alvin But you can't economically build a sphere big enough to hold 5 *paying* passengers....
OceanGate's logic delivered exactly what they anticipated: 'classed maritime vessels (and certificated aircraft) generally have accidents due to operator error, therefore we won't class because then we'd be most at risk to operator error.' Well, they didn't class, and it left them most at risk to mechanical failure, which seems to be what happened.
9:44 Apparently the CEO had voice comms with the support ship removed because he was tired of being asked for updates. So NO, OceanGate does NOT take "constant, committed effort and focused corporate culture" at all seriously, not with regards to safety. In addition to the fact that experimental submarines THROUGHOUT history have a far higher rate of mechanical failure casualties! My main hope at this point is that this tragedy results in all submersibles being added to SOLAS.
In a world where almost literally every single pressure vessel of any kind needs to be officially tested and certified by a certified laboratory before it sees any action, untested submarines are really strange.
Great video on the construction and operation of the sub. I am shocked that this submersible would be launched from a Canadian flag vessel without a classification society. I am wondering how they obtained insurance for this craft. They should have talked to some 50 year men.
One other point I'd like to make - whilst you've focussed on solas coming out of the titanic, one thing that came out of previous submarine disasters was the US Navy's SUBSAFE programme, quite possibly the most stringent QA process for design and materials in anything. It is almost the complete opposite of the design philosophy that seems to have gone into the development of this submarine an internationally agreed QA process for design, construction, testing and certification of civilian built submarines would seem to be something worth considering.
Besides the obvious problems with the Titan, I think one serious issue is that they were locked in from the outside. Even if they made it to the surface, they would still suffocate because they can’t breathe the fresh air right outside their windows. 😢 Prayers flying for their safe rescue.
Isn’t it ironic that the titanic caused a bunch of safety regulations and now a sub diving to inspect the titanic will most likely cause safety regulations for subs
No it isn't Ironic. If anything it sounds flat out like Basic Human Behavior. Think of the Seat Belt. Those things didn't come until people started dying on the streets like Morons. And well... Here we are again. Except now on the ocean dying like Morons. The only thing that kept us from dyng like Morons in Space are the Pets we sent up to die for us to figure out stuff 😅
@@cMARVEL360I think the irony is that the Titanic was one of the biggest influences in improving maritime safety measures and now an expedition to her wreck site will likely be a big influence in the future of deep sea expedition and rescues
What's weird is if one or two guys decide to "off" the three other guys, the oxygen they save might buy them enough time to survive. And if they are rescued in time, they have to explain why three guys are dead and there's blood all over the place. And to save themselves, they have to slice themselves up and call it self defense. Now THAT'S a movie right there!!
Can you imagine five people being stuck in that small space. Please don't forget these people have to use the restroom and use the bathroom. Others could get sick and vomit. That has to be a really frightening and awful experience. I hope they find the vessel.
please don't apologize for covering this topic, Sal. I came here because I trust your knowledge and know you won't over-dramatize or exaggerate the situation/ Thank you and please keep making updates. Blessings. Cherie 🐍💃
The lack of emergency egress is very surprising to me. You could probably do a video in the future comparing different submersibles to each other. They interviewed someone who covered this submersible and went on dives a couple or few years ago. He was nervous and he says the CEO told him he was worrying about the wrong things. The CEO said the biggest dangers were getting snagged on something or getting caught on a loose fishing net. That immediately caught my attention because he never mentioned fire. A fire is probably the worst thing that can happen on any vessel. Airplane, boat, submarine or spacecraft - doesn't matter. Fires can start in the sneakiest of ways and so quickly become uncontrollable. Fire should be a top concern for any sailor, aviator or astronaut. I wonder if they had a plan for a fire casualty. Also, with it being so experimental and dependent on surface equipment, I'm surprised they didn't have a way to release an emergency buoy with some kind of locator. You'd also expect them to have a radio or locator in case they surfaced beyond visual range. My guess is that they relied too heavily on extreme emergency procedures and surface equipment as a response to most risks. Also, how the heck were they supposed to egress if they lost propulsion, had to dump all ballast and couldn't get back on its surface equipment? What if the surface vessel sank or lost propulsion? Would they just have to bob there in the ocean until someone came along? Better hope they can jump in the ocean with the correct wrench and undo all the bolts fast enough to let you out before the sub takes on water and sinks. I don't have a problem with people doing crazy stuff like this. I just hope that the employees continuously expressed how dangerous this was, beyond the waiver signing, and didn't misrepresent the safety of this operation. I really like the idea of pushing new technology to new limits. I wonder how they planned to evaluate the integrity of this vessel and its components, and know when it has reached the end of life. How many dives can that carbon fiber hull withstand? Also, there are ways to slowly add painfully die in a submersible. I know that's not a nice thing to hear, but it's important people know that before doing any dive. You can't just brush off the danger by telling yourself that at least if you die it will be quick and painless. It also helps to appreciate the danger that submariners place themselves in, whether it's in the military or for research. I wonder if the internal equipment was water proof. Could a slow leak fry the equipment, cause it to go haywire, or electrocute? Did they practice emergency procedures?
Thanks Sal! I posted a meme today on twitter that a lot of media recenlty transitioned from Ukrainian war experts to deep sea submersible experts. You, on the other hand, give us a detailed explanation of the factors involved in this situation. I have several pieces of SOLAS gear and hope it will help me offshore if ever needed. Thank you.
Lets be real. The potential to find them in the bottom of the sea in less than 40 hours is 0. The potential to rescue them even of they did find them is 0. Only hope is to search on the surface. All other options are a waste of time and potentially lethal for the rescue team.
Even if they do locate it at the bottom what submarine or Underwater Drone can safely lift up a minibus sized vehicle? You can count the amount of submersibles that can reach those depths on one hand and none have the lifting capacity.
At the very least, I think submersibles for "outside hire" -- i.e., carrying paying passengers or tourists -- should be regulated under some new revised version of SOLAS. We could exempt company or pure-research submersibles with only employees as crew from any new regulations...or maybe not. I wonder if OceanGate is trying to slip around the distinction by calling the 4 passengers onboard "mission specialists," since with the exception of the CEO himself, these folks were paying tourists, plain and simple.
Very mature and measured response. I'm a former seafarer and remember doing Solas training. I think it should be expanded to submersibles. Especially if comercial/ tourist operations are going to become more commonplace. I hope, simply because the alternatives are too horrific to comprehend, that there was a quick implosion and that was all they knew.
Even our a 8m sailboat has an EPIRB , 2 or 3 gamins, plus two marine radios, AIS, HF ham radio, plus spare rudder, a grab bag.... o yes , and a wooden HAND operated tiller !!
And a EPIRB and radio’s don’t work when submerged. The biggest problem is this submersible has no emergency exit hatch - they can be on the surface and still suffocate.
For it to not be a tethered sub that carries passengers for money is absolutely ridiculous this is very frustrating to me I can’t even imagine what these passengers are going through
Right it's all so f****** horrendous the fact that they didn't even hire anybody that would be remotely qualified for a deep dive on this scale if they hired anybody from the Challenger Mission they would have told them immediately this is not a well-built submarine and send them straight back to the drawing board
At first thought, that might make sense. But a tether is just another moving part that can get caught up or tangled. I think it's frustrating that this is a thing at all. It's a resting place charged with the energy, anguish, sadness, fear of those who perished. Why can't we let it be at peace? Scientific drone camera operations...? Sure. But this pay to tour the titanic BS is just...wrong. Those who originally lost their lives aren't here to tell us how they feel about it, but I fear the ocean has very clearly spoken.
Being tethered simply isn't an option at that depth. It would require a cable or rope over two miles long. The sub weighs around 23,000lbs (of course it's effectively lighter while in the water, but let's say you wanted the same cable to be able to hoist it out of the water. That would require 1-1/4" wire rope. That wire rope weighs 2.6 pounds per foot. The Titanic sits at 12,500 ft. So the cable required to tether the sub to that depth would weigh 32,500 lbs + whatever the least buoyant weight of the submersible. The safe working load of that cable is only 25,800 pounds. So not a good situation, though that's still below the minimum breaking strength technically. But then you add rough seas, and that motion would translate to the submersible. And increase the dynamic load on the cable. And now imagine you have 30,000 pounds of broken cable raining down from above all over you and the Titanic. So yeah, there are very good reasons why these things aren't tethered.
Thanks for the info, I think you're right that this will lead to a SOLAS for submersibles. Rest in peace for the 5 men that were lost, they were incredibly brave to take the trip knowing that they could die. Implosion sounds like a horrible way to go but at least it was instant and they weren't trapped in the cold dark depth this whole time. That would have been tremendous suffering. Prayers for their friends and family.
Thanks for explaining some things relevant to the story about these 5 souls. I’ve been following the story for a day or so and it’s a truly heartbreaking story. My heart goes out to the families and friends of the people on board the Titan submersible.
Thank you for covering this aspect of this story, which isn't touched on in mainstream newscasts. Lack of outside safety regulation is always a bad thing, no matter how genuinely a company or industry may try to regulate itself.
This isn't a SOLAS situation, they signed a waiver acknowledging that this is an experimental craft before diving, the terms are on their website. While I think reasonable search efforts should be made, excessive public money should not be spent looking for willing participants in an experimental craft.
Hey3 Professor Sal, thank you for the mature insight on this sad situation. My thoughts and prayers are for the souls on board TITAN and the families related. I especially like that you point out that we learn and establish regulations for these types of endeavors. As always, GREAT, informative video, thank you for your service!! Peace, Mike from Delaware.
Kind of disgusting that they can build something this dangerous and not even have it registered some where. We have to have anything with motors registered kayaks etc. Also anything over a certain length. Coast Guard registered vessels you even have to run an ad in a newpaper before you can change the name. Something definitely needs changing!
Thank you for the in-depth explanation, especially for those who aren't savvy in this subject. This is a serious situation. Prayers 🙏🏻 for a successful rescue.
It's ego driven. Bunch of men with too much money looking for something to show off on social media or to one up the other guys at the charity ball or the country club with what you did last summer. Just like the guys that go climb Everest, scrimping and saving for years, leaving a wife and kids at home so they can fill their bloated ego.
Makes me wonder if they had done any kind of NDT on the craft between dives? Maybe even have three or four craft and then test one of them several times and then cut it apart to see how all of the materials and interfaces are holding up?
I would like to add a correction to a statement made in the video. There are many submarines and submersibles that are capable of reaching depths beyond 13,000 feet, however, there are very few that are designed with the capability of coming back up. In fact, almost all sea bearing vessels have the capability of reaching these depths. 😁
Fascinating breakdown of this tragic event. Hoping for the best but as you pointed out. The odds are just incredibly stacked against them. Hope you continue uploading more videos on the Titan as we learn more
If Titan was on the surface given the relatively short distance it could have drifted and that modern ASW radar systems (which the P8 Poseidon involved in the search is equipped with) can detect far smaller objects like a periscope then it would almost certainly have been found by now. Ocean Gate claims that there are multiple ways to drop ballast including an automatic system that will activate without crew input, and a manual way that requires no electricity. So I think the most probable scenarios given the current information we have is either, 1 a hull implosion, or 2 an electrical fire which incapacitated the crew and disabled the automatic ballast release.
we need those regulations yesterday ....it is a VERY important topic they have subs with like 30 to 50 people on them running around reefs and such..not just this coffee can of a sub.
Just like the Titanic, cutting costs, with cheaper materials for greater profits. Insane the company were allowed to go down there, considerating a prototype and untested. My heart goes out to the families. Great analysis.
Titanic was a relatively safe ship. one of the safest ships of her time. She even had way more lifeboats than what was considered necessary. She had competent designers, builders and crew. I think that's one of the more terrifying facts about the desaster. Obviously ships have been around for thousands of years. submersibles have been around for less than 200 and I don't think Titan made use of all the knowledge acquired.
@@MrShizzy1337 it was 'enough' lifeboats. They considered the ferry system for lifeboats as realiable. Obviously now days the standard is that we have enough lifeboats for everyone onboard, that came in after Titanic's sinking. Captain Smith was a experienced captain. Often attacked by people looking for someone to blame. I don't think anyone was to blame for Titanic's sinking. The Titanic disaster created an industry wide wake up call on the flaws of their existing understanding of safety.
Titanic gets such a bad reputation of man’s technical engineering folly ,,,yes, her bulkheads should have gone higher and topped, but in reality, she was a marvel in her sinking. In the one hundred and eleven years since she sank, she outperformed all ships disasters Of comparable size and situations. Most ships immediately lose power after a collision which Titanic and her heroic engineers kept on till the very end . Also , thanks to her trimmers sacrifices, she sank without capsizing till she broke her back. Most ships always capsize . She successfully launched all lifeboats except the one turned over collapsible but it still floated free giving dozens of people survival. She deserves so much credit , she put up one hell of a fight for nearly three hours .
The irony is: the Titanic may have not sank if she had hit the iceberg head-on. It might not have damaged enough compartments for it to sink. By trying to avoid hitting the iceberg, they grazed it, causing several compartments to be damaged and flood. Trying to avoid the berg may have doomed them. Hindsight is always 20/20, as they say.
Your video is very informative thanks for sharing with people who are following this emergency thought and prayers for those on the submersible and the rescuers who are trying to save them.
Sal, long time subscriber here and always enjoy your broad and deep understanding of all things to do with the sea. Keep posting your videos b/c I keep learning from them!
I think what you have presented here is better than I've seen in any of the media, Even some of the 'official sources' presented in the public media seem to have way more optimism than the situation deserves. It took nearly a century to find the wreckage of the Titanic (about 50,000 tons, mostly iron) on the bottom, it is the better part of 1000 ft long and 100ft high, If they found the submersible on the bottom today, it would be a week or more before they even got anything resembling a useful item to begin a rescue. Most military sonars are designed to find submarines, these are steel ships of 1000 tons or more operating at depths of 1000' or less, even fish finder sonars of the commercial variety don't reach anywhere near this depth. Finding a vessel under 20' on the surface of the north Atlantic that lacks a mast with a radar reflector is kind of dicey. i don't think any CG vessels have arrived on scene as of yet, maybe Canadian, but CG vessels generally lack sophisticated sonars. The best thing you could have sonar wise is a hunter/killer sub, next best would be a anti-sub destroyer, the Canadians have a few of these, ours would mostly be too far away. the best option is finding it on the surface soon. We need to look at this kind of adventure as space travel, there is outer space, this is inner space. Doing things like this involve large risks and it really isn't fair to rescue forces to double down on this risk. It's somewhat akin to folks who don't evacuate when a forecast hurricane is called or think that hurricanes are an opportunity for good surfing. The positive side is that future candidates will more thoroughly consider the risk and authorities will evaluate what rules need apply if they will allow such enterprises. I wonder how many senior naval and coast guard officers heard about this adventure and thought, 'what the hell are they going to do if something goes wrong and what role will my organization play?', wonder too, if any of these thoughts were conveyed to civilian pollical officials.
Thanks for touching on the EPIRB conversation, good to know you read the comments. Great analogy with the submersible being a a boat on a trailer. Great coverage as always, thanks for not just repeating what the mainstream news headlines are saying. Thank you as well for discussing SOLAS and classification societies, two things the common viewer may not know. Lastly, thank you for touching on the tragedy of the El Faro.
Love the educational aspects of your channel, I always learn something new and look forward to each new episode. I do hope these people are found alive.
3:00 I referred to that episode in a discussion with colleagues today. Most people really have no working knowledge of how severe the consequences pressure differentials can be.
Did you say that the sub can only be opened from the outside? Does that mean that they could conceivably be bobbing on the ocean, unfound, suffocating despite being on the surface??? Terrible.
At this point, its no longer a rescue, its a recovery. What you said here I said in other places yesterday. Even of they locate it, how can they get it back up? Oceangate only has ONE vehicle like that. The other vehicles they have can't go that deep. No way to hook up, no way to plug in an oxygen line. People that compare Mt. Everest to this don't realize that there's a bunch of ways to survive or be rescued from Everest. There's only one way to survive this kind of event : Resurface. IMHO, once they lost comms, they lost power. Once that happened they started sinking, with probably no way to keep the internal pressure up. Keep sinking and it'll implode. Thats just common sense. I hope I'm wrong, but since what should have happened with this vehicle, didn't happen, its unfortunately a recovery.
I've been wondering about the apparent lack of beacon (maybe there is one but it doesn't seem like it). I wonder if its not possible to have an external beacon that would survive the dive and an internal one would not work once on the surface?
I was in the surface Navy and have no clue the challenges faced at these depths but from the few short videos I've seen of the inside of the vessel I was really struck by the lack of redundency in some of the critical systems or at least that's how it appeared to me. I'm sure anyone in the aviation world or any bubble head where they live and die by having 47 layers of redundancy for things like you know..... steering..... would see the same or possibly even just have a stroke viewing the videos. Hindsight is 2020 but still, sketchy.
I'm not even in the navy or aviation, I'm in biology. When I saw the interior for the first time I said "You couldn't pay me $250,000 to dive 40 feet in that thing." Even laymen can see how sketchy the setup is.
@@apollofell3925 I would argue Biologists are still very technically driven thinkers with a lot of cross over knowledge and insight but you're right even most lay people online take one look at the inside and immediately know something is wrong even if they maybe lack the knowledge to explain why. Doesn't take a genius on this one. Then ironically it's the hull, but still such poor design. You're in biology so you will know we stand on the shoulders of Giants in most STEM fields and pretty much the opposite occurred here, ignored all of the collective best practices and paid the price.
@@ws8061 I can't disagree I might have a bit more insight than someone outside STEM but I think anyone who's seen any sort of control panel in their life could guess this sub was underequipped. I'm quite honestly a bit shocked this guy had an aerospace engineering degree from Princeton. He had enough money to hire a better team to make the thing, but he thought he knew better than everyone else. Sometimes it really does feel like they will hand out these degrees to just anyone.
I have a feeling we're not going to find anything. If it imploded, from the sounds of it the main section of the hull probably shattered completely. There's not even oil/fuel to form a slick on the surface.
Unfortunately, you can't fully regulate common sense. Emergency oxygen, but no emergency lighting or drinking water. Seems there was no intent for the crew to survive SHTF. What a shame.
There shouldnt be. Everyone wants to protect everyone from themselves and pillow coat the world. History and life as we know it was created by risk takers and sadly many tragedies. This is very sad but whats next? Ban skydiving, ban motorcycles, ban diving, let people live. Its what im sure every adventurer on board that sub would want.
@@jpyka4x4nk god there's someone with sense about them! The amount of ridiculous fear-mongering comments I've read the last two days from people who want to "ban because of safety," or they expect others to live in fear the rest of their lives like they do because of dangerous endeavors like these. Western history is replete with those who perished attempting something extremely dangerous, whether it was human exploration, colonizing new lands, or experimental ventures. Anytime a major accident happens now in the 21st century, people want to immediately start banning with legislation. I think it was Sun-Tzu who said, "A civilization with too many laws is ripe for failure!" I deal with this in high-altitude mountaineering, where, anytime someone perishes- out come the critics and armchair Monday morning quarterbacks talking about "being safe" or "not taking foolish risks." Most of these people live in fear in the comfortable confines of their living rooms while stuffing their face with junk food and Netflix! They wouldn't know what living was if it slapped 'em upside the head! "Cowards die many times before their deaths, the valiant never taste of death but once" - Shakespeare
@@FrankBullitt390 She was about 2/3 of the way down. The Titanic sits in about 12500 feet, and the support ship stated it was about 2/3 of the way down. so some real rough calculations by me shows to be about 8500 feet, where they lost all comms. The pressure at that depth is about 3771.95 psi & IF one of the glue joints failed , you have the same effect, those on board are pulped & the electronics quit working
1st thing that popped into my head was why the hell is there not some type of emergency beacon emitting some sort sort of signal that can be tracked. Followed by many other thoughts indicating that this is a nelgligent ass corner cutting operation.
ULB/"pinger" The first thing an experienced middle-aged guy would have insisted on - but hey - whatever edited: to remove the "white" reference that the CEO used
@@gordslater I just noticed my comment could benefit from an edit. Several errors haha. I need to get in the habit of reviewing prior to posting. And appreciate the schooling on terminology. Good to know.
"...classing agencies are unwilling to pursue the certification of new and innovative designs..." Like driving the submersible with a Game Controller? I'd wager the classing agencies are unwilling because the designs are more dangerous than innovative.
As a former Coastie, I agree with you completely. I do not, however, like the idea of this kind of tourism on the grave marker for 1,517 souls. It is sheer hubris and completely unnecessary.
Check out Sub Brief's excellent analysis on the submersible:
th-cam.com/video/4dka29FSZac/w-d-xo.html
Am I understanding correctly this vessel has no tow cable/ comms cable? This a free assent type thing? How many trips has it made prior to the wreck?
@@WALTERBROADDUS 3 trips... This thing is a trash can made of epoxy carbon fiber, they may never find it. Keep in mind that Carbon Fiber fails without warning and shatters like glass, it is not used for this application by real engineers.
Hi Sal, i love Sub Brief as well. Good shout-out,lol. Keep the news coming regardless of feelings. We appreciate your hard work.
@@nickbreen287 Well, any material can fail. I have the I-95 Mess going on just across town as an example. But it is depth rated then to reach bottom and has done so successfully on 3 trips?
@@WALTERBROADDUS It was 'calculated' to go 4000m, thats real close to the Titanic depth, small margin. It was never tested to failure to real crush depth is unknown, could be much less than 4000m! Carbon Fiber is not like metal, if it gets a thump that can be sufficient to cause a micro fracture that when exposed to 400 bar becomes a macro fracture in a nanosecond. I also hear that there was a whistle blower that claimed the carbon components were not even non-destructively tested. He also claimed they were defective. There is so many odd things about this sub, not good.
Speaking of optimism Sal, my crew was involved in the rescue of 83 persons. A total of aprox 115+ rescued. Only one deceased by drowning. The distressed vessel caught on fire. Everyone was in the water (Gulf of Mexico) at night. When arrived on scene all I could see were flashing individual strobes. My first thought was "How the f**k are we going to rescue all these people?" I immediately switched attitude, and mentally stated, "You start with one."
Thank you for your efforts. This is much different. We should not give up on the 5 soles but this is going to cost the tax payers millions for the greed of few!
Exactly. Thanks for sharing. Night rescues are very difficult. Congrats to you and the crew. Strobes make a huge difference.
@@jamieo8653 These people are dead.
@@fishmonger6879 When people have nothing intelligent to add to a conversation they contribute inanities,triteness, and superfluous comments. Sometimes an insult is thrown in for good measure.
In the case of the one drowning victim in my event, a fellow co-worker "towed him" to my boat. Personally I knew he was deceased. But I and some of my crew attempted manual resuscitation for approximately 30 minutes.
Congrats on the rescues and your change of thinking
There is a story I found on google saying someone from the sub’s company was fired because he said the glass on the sub was only rated for 1500 meters and said it needed to be replaced because they were going to 4000 meters and the owner didn’t want to pay for the costs.
This is correct. The man who was fired is very experienced and respected in the field
Hope someone sues this company into oblivion.
If it’s ever determined that the vessel was lost with all hands… it’s probably gonna be more than just a lawsuit… clock’s ticking
@@jackthorton10 I'm betting there's a contract signed agreeing to waive liability for accidental death. Those are not bulletproof though - if you can prove deliberate negligence like ignoring safety concerns from qualified people.
@@captainz9Also in certain cases/situations Judges can throw out those kinds of contracts because the terms are "ridiculous", "unenforceable", etc.
I was a ROV pilot for a Shell project years ago in the gulf of Mexico. We did one of the deepest operations to date. We set a manifold tree at 10,000ft. Shell spent over 1 million dollars for a special nylon rope to lower the tree due to the weight, had to remove the weight of the wire cable.. One use and throw it away. Lots of money in deep sea exploration.
Salvage, too. Lots of bespoke, one use equipment fabricated for the task at hand.
@@sailorgabbie Did my share of salvage ops with Resolve Marine out of Fort Lauderdale FL. Lots of memories. Also I knew Greg Stemm from Odyssey marine out of Tampa. Did a bunch of work in the " treasure salvage ops".
Alaminos Canyon ?
Thank you for your work with ( ROVs) watching growing up on Hood Canal Washington state. The Torpedo Test trial Range. They had 3 Dimension tracking Towers on the bottom. This was before the (YTT class) with ROVs. They LOST Torpedo on the bottom. The Support vessels for Oil platform are not fast, can't just get to area speed wise. They cruise the speed of Tug boats.
@@1STGeneral I did work on the Perdido platform back in the day. I think that's in the block you mentioned. We called the Perdido the stairmeister as it was 20 stories up to get to the galley. Had to be hungry to climb that much. No elevators on that one.
"Sub Brief" Podcaster had some interesting observations about this tragedy. First, he played a video of the submersible being manufactured. The middle round part is strictly wound carbon fiber. Both ends are a titanium alloy which is actually glued to the carbide fiber. He also stated the vessel would not collapse but rather would suddenly shatter under the tremendous pressure. Also, he notes a lack of air quality monitor. Say the air became rich with oxygen, carbide monoxide, etc. How would they know? Also, if there was a fire or short somehow. A fire not only would rapidly spread. There would be no way to exhaust the harmful fumes, etc. He also thought the wireless control for the sub was a major safety hazard. Also, there was no one on board with any kind of depth of experience regarding diving. Another major safety concern.
Just watched that video. Impeccable analysis by middle aged white guy 😊
Yeeks!!
Much worse equipments than the 688 he worked on.
Saw the same video. If it suddently shadders or implodes, one would think that sound would be detectable on the surface, just like pings
@@kimkristensen2816i think they suffocated
As someone who works in this field designing research and passenger submersibles, I can unequivocally state that this company was operating well outside the norm. Yes, it is a time consuming and expensive undertaking to class a submersible (we do our classing under ABS , American Bureau of Shipping). However, this is a very necessary undertaking which nearly every other company in this industry does and takes seriously. If you look at the safety record over the last 50 years of submersibles which have undergone proper classing, it is impeccable. OceanGate was irresponsibly operating a submersible which would never have met any accepted global classing standards and this is the result.
You don't know whether it would have met standards or not, you are just assuming
Thanks for sharing. Great info.
That is why you have a third party classification society come in an evaluate them. I dont know how they obtained insurance.
@wgowshipping How much would it cost to have people qualified/trained to inspect these types of very unique and experimental vessels? I don't see how it is worth the cost to regulate when it is such a niche market.
@@PointNemo9 five people's lives aren't worth it?
I heard the CEO talk in an interview about their hiring and product development practices. One of those practices is to hire new college grads as their principal engineers because they can be inspired. That is about the dumbest criteria you can have to hire engineers doing critical designs that risk people's lives. Whether there are external agencies that have to certify these vessels, as a CEO you have to do the work to ensure safety.
"inspired", read bullied and threatened into ignoring safety concerns
He was an arrogant 🍆
I've heard him say he hired a guy cause he surfed and had an affinity for being in the ocean, or something like that. He mentioned a couple of other examples that I don't recall but were equally laughable.
They are cheaper to hire.
College engineer grads are the last I would hire in this sort of operating business. I've seen fresh out of college engineer students cut live wires (thankfully 24 vdc)
As two of my favorite maritime people, Sal and Bill Todi (former commander submarine USS Indianapolis) both say, don't forget that the sea is trying to kill you. It is a humbling reminder.
Yes! I worked offshore on a ship. It's fury was a constant reminder it wanted to eat me!
Who? A search for Bill Todi or William Todi either alone or in conjunction with "uss indianapolis" returns NO results. Oh wait, no, there is a Bill Todi on TH-cam. His channel is short zoomer gamplay vids... EDIT: Ok a search on Navsource led me to this. You must've been refering to this guy: CDR. Toti, William Joseph, USN (USNA 1979).
@@stab74 You are correct...and yes, I can't spell! Look up "Unauthorized History of the Pacific War". He is cohost. Very informative if you are a history person.
EVERYTHING is trying to kill you. And when I say everything, I mean the actual textbook definition of "everything". That is no exaggeration either. Even your own body is trying to kill you.
@@stab74 Captain Bill Toti was CO of USS Indianapolis attack sub. He is easy to find on the internet.
It's somewhat ironic that just as Captain Smith came under scrutiny for his actions and/or lack of them on the Titanic, so will CEO Captain Rush of the OceanGate vessel, Titan. Stockton Rush was certain Titan's Kevlar reinforced Titanium hull would be able to withstand the sea's pressure at Titanic's depth. In 2018, Rush asked an employee, by name of Lochridge, who had submarine worthiness inspection capability to make a report on Titan. Lockridge's report stated that certain "non-destructive" tests be made regularly on the vessel to be sure it would continually survive the dives to the Titanic. Lochridge was fired the next day. Stockton believed that his own designed acoustic and strain gage system on the Titan would pre-warn of hull failure with enough time to surface before disaster. *Note:* I believe that hull failure, perhaps brought about by just a few deep (2.4 mile) dive cycles likely destroyed the vessel. Especially because the touted *new material* of Kevlar reinforced Titanium was *_new and untested for such a purpose_* , it should have been and that will be the focus of the law suits to follow.
Captain Crushed
I just watched a clip where it showed the people being sealed into the capsule. The guy tightening the 17 bolts around the entrace seal was using a standard craftsman ratchet and box end wrench to tighten the bolts...wtf gajillions of metric tons of pressure and not even a torque wrench, wth lights from camping world and playstation controller that works on Bluetooth that isnt reliable in my bedroom. Stupid all the way around. The titanium ends only held on by precision fitment and epoxy, no mechanical connections... I'm not a billionaire but smart enough to ask a few obvious questions before getting in that death trap with a guy named Stockton Rush
I think you may be right.
I think that it had imploded when the Mother Ship lost communication.
Even if it didn't implode, they will run out of Oxygen before anyone can get to them - if they are far enough down, no one will be able to get to them.
I'm wondering if any Preventative Maintenance/Repair Assessments were done after each successful trip or if they just parked it 'til the next trip.
kevlar reinforced titanium? it looked to me it was a kevlar tube with two titanium half spheres bolted on both ends,
Agree about hull failure being most likely.
I would be willing to bet money it happened at one of the joints where different materials and different shapes meet.
Titanium and carbon fiber no doubt respond differently (ie strain) to intense loading.
And a hemisphere and a cylinder will also respond differently.
I would guess that under these intense pressures the circular bases of the hemispheres are straining OUTWARDS, and the circular ends of the cylinder are straining INWARDS.
These critical joints were simple glue joints AFAIK
There is a *reason* why most submersibles designed for these depths (Ie Alvin( have had spherical pressure vessels fabricated from a single material.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSV_Alvin
But you can't economically build a sphere big enough to hold 5 *paying* passengers....
OceanGate's logic delivered exactly what they anticipated: 'classed maritime vessels (and certificated aircraft) generally have accidents due to operator error, therefore we won't class because then we'd be most at risk to operator error.' Well, they didn't class, and it left them most at risk to mechanical failure, which seems to be what happened.
"Why do we have all these safety measures if the the the issues the safety measures prevent never happen." Rush should have looked up survivor bias.
So the Titanic initiated safety regulations for surface ships and now (indirectly) will bring new regulations for submersibles.
Coming full circle perhaps?
Thats ironic.
I do believe you are right.
Regulations have always been written in Blood😔
9:44 Apparently the CEO had voice comms with the support ship removed because he was tired of being asked for updates. So NO, OceanGate does NOT take "constant, committed effort and focused corporate culture" at all seriously, not with regards to safety.
In addition to the fact that experimental submarines THROUGHOUT history have a far higher rate of mechanical failure casualties!
My main hope at this point is that this tragedy results in all submersibles being added to SOLAS.
Do you recall where you learned the CEO intentionally deactivated voice comms? I'd love to look at it.
@@apollofell3925 Sub Brief, though I have just learned that he has a history of poor fact checking
@@AnimeSunglasses I appreciate the info! Definitely seemed like potential hearsay, I couldn't find much when I googled it.
In a world where almost literally every single pressure vessel of any kind needs to be officially tested and certified by a certified laboratory before it sees any action, untested submarines are really strange.
You have a good understanding of the limitations of sonar. I appreciate that. It's a rare skill on TH-cam. Well done.
We appreciate you!
Great video on the construction and operation of the sub. I am shocked that this submersible would be launched from a Canadian flag vessel without a classification society. I am wondering how they obtained insurance for this craft.
They should have talked to some 50 year men.
@@wgowshipping What makes you think it was insured? Self insured, maybe.
@@SirenaSpades I can't imagine them operating any business without insurance.
But based on what I am seeing, you may be right.
Sailed with MSC and one of my ships was a SURTASS.
One other point I'd like to make - whilst you've focussed on solas coming out of the titanic, one thing that came out of previous submarine disasters was the US Navy's SUBSAFE programme, quite possibly the most stringent QA process for design and materials in anything. It is almost the complete opposite of the design philosophy that seems to have gone into the development of this submarine an internationally agreed QA process for design, construction, testing and certification of civilian built submarines would seem to be something worth considering.
Besides the obvious problems with the Titan, I think one serious issue is that they were locked in from the outside. Even if they made it to the surface, they would still suffocate because they can’t breathe the fresh air right outside their windows. 😢 Prayers flying for their safe rescue.
No doubt, that is a problem. But even if they could surface and get air, people can also only go a few days without water
@@kelly7997 I agree 100%, but at least one of the two truly life-threatening problems would be taken care of.
They are dead.
Isn’t it ironic that the titanic caused a bunch of safety regulations and now a sub diving to inspect the titanic will most likely cause safety regulations for subs
No it isn't Ironic. If anything it sounds flat out like Basic Human Behavior.
Think of the Seat Belt. Those things didn't come until people started dying on the streets like Morons.
And well... Here we are again. Except now on the ocean dying like Morons.
The only thing that kept us from dyng like Morons in Space are the Pets we sent up to die for us to figure out stuff 😅
@@cMARVEL360I think the irony is that the Titanic was one of the biggest influences in improving maritime safety measures and now an expedition to her wreck site will likely be a big influence in the future of deep sea expedition and rescues
@@cMARVEL360es Laika died for our sins. And don't forget Albert 1-7.
the regulations exist, the moron ignored them
Even if you found them there is no capable unit available to latch onto them and tow them out. US and Canadian government had made that clear
Maybe there will be some Ukrainian aligned professional divers in a nearby rented yacht that can help out
@@MyMomSaysImKeen The Baltic sea is a literal puddle when compared with the resting site of the Titanic. 459 metres deep Vs 3700......
@@MyMomSaysImKeen I'm going to assume you're being facetious.
This has been the strangest marketing campaign to relaunch a movie franchise in recent memory.
😂😂😂😂😂😂
Has Kirk Cameron been dispatched?
😂😂😂😂😂
What's weird is if one or two guys decide to "off" the three other guys, the oxygen they save might buy them enough time to survive. And if they are rescued in time, they have to explain why three guys are dead and there's blood all over the place. And to save themselves, they have to slice themselves up and call it self defense. Now THAT'S a movie right there!!
@@TargaWheelsread LORD OF THE FLIES
Can you imagine five people being stuck in that small space. Please don't forget these people have to use the restroom and use the bathroom. Others could get sick and vomit. That has to be a really frightening and awful experience. I hope they find the vessel.
There is/was an onboard toilet with a privacy screen. Apparently the view from the toilet viewport was spectacular.
please don't apologize for covering this topic, Sal. I came here because I trust your knowledge and know you won't over-dramatize or exaggerate the situation/ Thank you and please keep making updates. Blessings.
Cherie 🐍💃
The lack of emergency egress is very surprising to me. You could probably do a video in the future comparing different submersibles to each other. They interviewed someone who covered this submersible and went on dives a couple or few years ago. He was nervous and he says the CEO told him he was worrying about the wrong things. The CEO said the biggest dangers were getting snagged on something or getting caught on a loose fishing net. That immediately caught my attention because he never mentioned fire. A fire is probably the worst thing that can happen on any vessel. Airplane, boat, submarine or spacecraft - doesn't matter. Fires can start in the sneakiest of ways and so quickly become uncontrollable. Fire should be a top concern for any sailor, aviator or astronaut. I wonder if they had a plan for a fire casualty. Also, with it being so experimental and dependent on surface equipment, I'm surprised they didn't have a way to release an emergency buoy with some kind of locator. You'd also expect them to have a radio or locator in case they surfaced beyond visual range. My guess is that they relied too heavily on extreme emergency procedures and surface equipment as a response to most risks. Also, how the heck were they supposed to egress if they lost propulsion, had to dump all ballast and couldn't get back on its surface equipment? What if the surface vessel sank or lost propulsion? Would they just have to bob there in the ocean until someone came along? Better hope they can jump in the ocean with the correct wrench and undo all the bolts fast enough to let you out before the sub takes on water and sinks.
I don't have a problem with people doing crazy stuff like this. I just hope that the employees continuously expressed how dangerous this was, beyond the waiver signing, and didn't misrepresent the safety of this operation. I really like the idea of pushing new technology to new limits. I wonder how they planned to evaluate the integrity of this vessel and its components, and know when it has reached the end of life. How many dives can that carbon fiber hull withstand?
Also, there are ways to slowly add painfully die in a submersible. I know that's not a nice thing to hear, but it's important people know that before doing any dive. You can't just brush off the danger by telling yourself that at least if you die it will be quick and painless. It also helps to appreciate the danger that submariners place themselves in, whether it's in the military or for research. I wonder if the internal equipment was water proof. Could a slow leak fry the equipment, cause it to go haywire, or electrocute? Did they practice emergency procedures?
No. Nothing to practice. Dump ballast and pray you come up.
Thanks Sal! I posted a meme today on twitter that a lot of media recenlty transitioned from Ukrainian war experts to deep sea submersible experts.
You, on the other hand, give us a detailed explanation of the factors involved in this situation.
I have several pieces of SOLAS gear and hope it will help me offshore if ever needed.
Thank you.
So the crew just signed agreement about them responsible for themselves, while the Capsule don't have even the signal buoy.
Lets be real. The potential to find them in the bottom of the sea in less than 40 hours is 0. The potential to rescue them even of they did find them is 0. Only hope is to search on the surface. All other options are a waste of time and potentially lethal for the rescue team.
I’d stop after the oxygen is for sure gone
Even if they do locate it at the bottom what submarine or Underwater Drone can safely lift up a minibus sized vehicle? You can count the amount of submersibles that can reach those depths on one hand and none have the lifting capacity.
Sal, this is the most comprehensive review of this incident of which I have listened - congratulations as always!
Hello Marilyn. Very tough incident to cover. Sal does an excellent job. Fingered crossed for the crew.
At the very least, I think submersibles for "outside hire" -- i.e., carrying paying passengers or tourists -- should be regulated under some new revised version of SOLAS. We could exempt company or pure-research submersibles with only employees as crew from any new regulations...or maybe not.
I wonder if OceanGate is trying to slip around the distinction by calling the 4 passengers onboard "mission specialists," since with the exception of the CEO himself, these folks were paying tourists, plain and simple.
Very mature and measured response. I'm a former seafarer and remember doing Solas training. I think it should be expanded to submersibles. Especially if comercial/ tourist operations are going to become more commonplace.
I hope, simply because the alternatives are too horrific to comprehend, that there was a quick implosion and that was all they knew.
Even our a 8m sailboat has an EPIRB , 2 or 3 gamins, plus two marine radios, AIS, HF ham radio, plus spare rudder, a grab bag.... o yes , and a wooden HAND operated tiller !!
And a EPIRB and radio’s don’t work when submerged.
The biggest problem is this submersible has no emergency exit hatch - they can be on the surface and still suffocate.
For it to not be a tethered sub that carries passengers for money is absolutely ridiculous this is very frustrating to me I can’t even imagine what these passengers are going through
Right it's all so f****** horrendous the fact that they didn't even hire anybody that would be remotely qualified for a deep dive on this scale if they hired anybody from the Challenger Mission they would have told them immediately this is not a well-built submarine and send them straight back to the drawing board
Went* 99% chance it imploded on descent.
At first thought, that might make sense. But a tether is just another moving part that can get caught up or tangled. I think it's frustrating that this is a thing at all. It's a resting place charged with the energy, anguish, sadness, fear of those who perished. Why can't we let it be at peace?
Scientific drone camera operations...? Sure. But this pay to tour the titanic BS is just...wrong. Those who originally lost their lives aren't here to tell us how they feel about it, but I fear the ocean has very clearly spoken.
Being tethered simply isn't an option at that depth. It would require a cable or rope over two miles long. The sub weighs around 23,000lbs (of course it's effectively lighter while in the water, but let's say you wanted the same cable to be able to hoist it out of the water. That would require 1-1/4" wire rope.
That wire rope weighs 2.6 pounds per foot. The Titanic sits at 12,500 ft. So the cable required to tether the sub to that depth would weigh 32,500 lbs + whatever the least buoyant weight of the submersible. The safe working load of that cable is only 25,800 pounds. So not a good situation, though that's still below the minimum breaking strength technically.
But then you add rough seas, and that motion would translate to the submersible. And increase the dynamic load on the cable. And now imagine you have 30,000 pounds of broken cable raining down from above all over you and the Titanic.
So yeah, there are very good reasons why these things aren't tethered.
@@bradley3549 I guess someone's forgetting that the Challenger mission that went even deeper was tethered
Thanks for the info, I think you're right that this will lead to a SOLAS for submersibles. Rest in peace for the 5 men that were lost, they were incredibly brave to take the trip knowing that they could die. Implosion sounds like a horrible way to go but at least it was instant and they weren't trapped in the cold dark depth this whole time. That would have been tremendous suffering. Prayers for their friends and family.
A very insightful presentation on a very disturbing subject. Prayers for all involved.
Thanks for explaining some things relevant to the story about these 5 souls. I’ve been following the story for a day or so and it’s a truly heartbreaking story. My heart goes out to the families and friends of the people on board the Titan submersible.
Thank you for covering this aspect of this story, which isn't touched on in mainstream newscasts. Lack of outside safety regulation is always a bad thing, no matter how genuinely a company or industry may try to regulate itself.
This isn't a SOLAS situation, they signed a waiver acknowledging that this is an experimental craft before diving, the terms are on their website. While I think reasonable search efforts should be made, excessive public money should not be spent looking for willing participants in an experimental craft.
Waivers do not waive gross negligence. If it can be proven in court that OceanGate was grossly negligent then they can still be sued.
This has been probably the most informed and realistic take and explanation on this I’ve seen - thank you!
Hey3 Professor Sal, thank you for the mature insight on this sad situation. My thoughts and prayers are for the souls on board TITAN and the families related. I especially like that you point out that we learn and establish regulations for these types of endeavors. As always, GREAT, informative video, thank you for your service!! Peace, Mike from Delaware.
Kind of disgusting that they can build something this dangerous and not even have it registered some where. We have to have anything with motors registered kayaks etc. Also anything over a certain length. Coast Guard registered vessels you even have to run an ad in a newpaper before you can change the name. Something definitely needs changing!
Thank you for the in-depth explanation, especially for those who aren't savvy in this subject. This is a serious situation. Prayers 🙏🏻 for a successful rescue.
I don’t understand anymore wanting to take this risk when you could watch the movie on your sofa with popcorn 🍿
Spoiler1 : it sinks
Spoiler 2: it's probably sunk
It's ego driven. Bunch of men with too much money looking for something to show off on social media or to one up the other guys at the charity ball or the country club with what you did last summer. Just like the guys that go climb Everest, scrimping and saving for years, leaving a wife and kids at home so they can fill their bloated ego.
Makes me wonder if they had done any kind of NDT on the craft between dives? Maybe even have three or four craft and then test one of them several times and then cut it apart to see how all of the materials and interfaces are holding up?
nah, she'll be right
I would like to add a correction to a statement made in the video. There are many submarines and submersibles that are capable of reaching depths beyond 13,000 feet, however, there are very few that are designed with the capability of coming back up. In fact, almost all sea bearing vessels have the capability of reaching these depths. 😁
Every vessel can make a dive to 13,000 feet. Once.
Ah, the "funny guy" has shown up. Wonderful.
Sal: Good, no-nonsense piece. Thanks.
Fascinating breakdown of this tragic event. Hoping for the best but as you pointed out. The odds are just incredibly stacked against them. Hope you continue uploading more videos on the Titan as we learn more
Sounds like the company had no one to have to answer to. Anything goes.
If Titan was on the surface given the relatively short distance it could have drifted and that modern ASW radar systems (which the P8 Poseidon involved in the search is equipped with) can detect far smaller objects like a periscope then it would almost certainly have been found by now. Ocean Gate claims that there are multiple ways to drop ballast including an automatic system that will activate without crew input, and a manual way that requires no electricity. So I think the most probable scenarios given the current information we have is either, 1 a hull implosion, or 2 an electrical fire which incapacitated the crew and disabled the automatic ballast release.
we need those regulations yesterday ....it is a VERY important topic they have subs with like 30 to 50 people on them running around reefs and such..not just this coffee can of a sub.
Just like the Titanic, cutting costs, with cheaper materials for greater profits. Insane the company were allowed to go down there, considerating a prototype and untested. My heart goes out to the families. Great analysis.
Titanic was a relatively safe ship. one of the safest ships of her time. She even had way more lifeboats than what was considered necessary. She had competent designers, builders and crew. I think that's one of the more terrifying facts about the desaster. Obviously ships have been around for thousands of years. submersibles have been around for less than 200 and I don't think Titan made use of all the knowledge acquired.
What happened to Titanic was a completely freak accident
The Titanic did not have enough enough life boats for it's passengers. Also, the captain made several poor decisions that lead to that tragedy.
@@MrShizzy1337 it was 'enough' lifeboats. They considered the ferry system for lifeboats as realiable. Obviously now days the standard is that we have enough lifeboats for everyone onboard, that came in after Titanic's sinking. Captain Smith was a experienced captain. Often attacked by people looking for someone to blame. I don't think anyone was to blame for Titanic's sinking. The Titanic disaster created an industry wide wake up call on the flaws of their existing understanding of safety.
Titanic gets such a bad reputation of man’s technical engineering folly ,,,yes, her bulkheads should have gone higher and topped, but in reality, she was a marvel in her sinking. In the one hundred and eleven years since she sank, she outperformed all ships disasters
Of comparable size and situations. Most ships immediately lose power after a collision which Titanic and her heroic engineers kept on till the very end . Also , thanks to her trimmers sacrifices, she sank without capsizing till she broke her back. Most ships always capsize . She successfully launched all lifeboats except the one turned over collapsible but it still floated free giving dozens of people survival. She deserves so much credit , she put up one hell of a fight for nearly three hours .
The irony is: the Titanic may have not sank if she had hit the iceberg head-on. It might not have damaged enough compartments for it to sink. By trying to avoid hitting the iceberg, they grazed it, causing several compartments to be damaged and flood. Trying to avoid the berg may have doomed them.
Hindsight is always 20/20, as they say.
Thanks for the update. Very informative
Thank you for explaining this in a way regular people can understand.
Excellent video. You explained a number of issues clearly and concisely. Keep up the good work!
As time goes on the worst case scenario becomes the best case.
Your video is very informative thanks for sharing with people who are following this emergency thought and prayers for those on the submersible and the rescuers who are trying to save them.
It took 73 years to find Titanic it wasn’t easy so I’d imagine how hard it’s going to be to find something as small as a minivan in a big ocean.
Sal, long time subscriber here and always enjoy your broad and deep understanding of all things to do with the sea. Keep posting your videos b/c I keep learning from them!
Thanks, will do!
Thanks, Sal, very informative report. Definitely time for regulation. Hopefully search and rescue locate the titan.
Very informative. Thank you.
This is so very interesting. Thankyou for the time you have taken to make this.
I always finish your videos feeling a little more educated. Thanks Sal
I think what you have presented here is better than I've seen in any of the media, Even some of the 'official sources' presented in the public media seem to have way more optimism than the situation deserves.
It took nearly a century to find the wreckage of the Titanic (about 50,000 tons, mostly iron) on the bottom, it is the better part of 1000 ft long and 100ft high, If they found the submersible on the bottom today, it would be a week or more before they even got anything resembling a useful item to begin a rescue. Most military sonars are designed to find submarines, these are steel ships of 1000 tons or more operating at depths of 1000' or less, even fish finder sonars of the commercial variety don't reach anywhere near this depth. Finding a vessel under 20' on the surface of the north Atlantic that lacks a mast with a radar reflector is kind of dicey. i don't think any CG vessels have arrived on scene as of yet, maybe Canadian, but CG vessels generally lack sophisticated sonars. The best thing you could have sonar wise is a hunter/killer sub, next best would be a anti-sub destroyer, the Canadians have a few of these, ours would mostly be too far away. the best option is finding it on the surface soon. We need to look at this kind of adventure as space travel, there is outer space, this is inner space. Doing things like this involve large risks and it really isn't fair to rescue forces to double down on this risk. It's somewhat akin to folks who don't evacuate when a forecast hurricane is called or think that hurricanes are an opportunity for good surfing. The positive side is that future candidates will more thoroughly consider the risk and authorities will evaluate what rules need apply if they will allow such enterprises. I wonder how many senior naval and coast guard officers heard about this adventure and thought, 'what the hell are they going to do if something goes wrong and what role will my organization play?', wonder too, if any of these thoughts were conveyed to civilian pollical officials.
Thanks for touching on the EPIRB conversation, good to know you read the comments. Great analogy with the submersible being a a boat on a trailer. Great coverage as always, thanks for not just repeating what the mainstream news headlines are saying.
Thank you as well for discussing SOLAS and classification societies, two things the common viewer may not know. Lastly, thank you for touching on the tragedy of the El Faro.
Love the educational aspects of your channel, I always learn something new and look forward to each new episode. I do hope these people are found alive.
3:00 I referred to that episode in a discussion with colleagues today. Most people really have no working knowledge of how severe the consequences pressure differentials can be.
99.1K you're some close.
Did you say that the sub can only be opened from the outside? Does that mean that they could conceivably be bobbing on the ocean, unfound, suffocating despite being on the surface??? Terrible.
Yes. And, yes.
SMFH
@@gordslatersmfh?
fascinating, thank you. very ironic about the SOLAS regulations. funny how many hate on regulations until the very minute they might come in handy.
Simply, thank you.
Sorry to disappoint but no-one is getting "rescued". I doubt they'll even find it much less recover the submersible.
At this point, its no longer a rescue, its a recovery. What you said here I said in other places yesterday. Even of they locate it, how can they get it back up? Oceangate only has ONE vehicle like that. The other vehicles they have can't go that deep. No way to hook up, no way to plug in an oxygen line. People that compare Mt. Everest to this don't realize that there's a bunch of ways to survive or be rescued from Everest. There's only one way to survive this kind of event : Resurface. IMHO, once they lost comms, they lost power. Once that happened they started sinking, with probably no way to keep the internal pressure up. Keep sinking and it'll implode. Thats just common sense. I hope I'm wrong, but since what should have happened with this vehicle, didn't happen, its unfortunately a recovery.
and they wanted to do it 23x this year...
Thank you! What a fantastic and informative presentation! Hoping for the best.
As always, I am truly grateful for this post. I learned a lot. This past week I heard someone say that the regulations are protections. I agree!
Thanks for your great program.
I've been wondering about the apparent lack of beacon (maybe there is one but it doesn't seem like it). I wonder if its not possible to have an external beacon that would survive the dive and an internal one would not work once on the surface?
Thanks 4 The Update ! ( Take Care )
Thanks for all the knowledge! Much appreciated.
I was in the surface Navy and have no clue the challenges faced at these depths but from the few short videos I've seen of the inside of the vessel I was really struck by the lack of redundency in some of the critical systems or at least that's how it appeared to me. I'm sure anyone in the aviation world or any bubble head where they live and die by having 47 layers of redundancy for things like you know..... steering..... would see the same or possibly even just have a stroke viewing the videos. Hindsight is 2020 but still, sketchy.
I'm not even in the navy or aviation, I'm in biology. When I saw the interior for the first time I said "You couldn't pay me $250,000 to dive 40 feet in that thing." Even laymen can see how sketchy the setup is.
@@apollofell3925 I would argue Biologists are still very technically driven thinkers with a lot of cross over knowledge and insight but you're right even most lay people online take one look at the inside and immediately know something is wrong even if they maybe lack the knowledge to explain why. Doesn't take a genius on this one. Then ironically it's the hull, but still such poor design. You're in biology so you will know we stand on the shoulders of Giants in most STEM fields and pretty much the opposite occurred here, ignored all of the collective best practices and paid the price.
@@ws8061 I can't disagree I might have a bit more insight than someone outside STEM but I think anyone who's seen any sort of control panel in their life could guess this sub was underequipped. I'm quite honestly a bit shocked this guy had an aerospace engineering degree from Princeton. He had enough money to hire a better team to make the thing, but he thought he knew better than everyone else. Sometimes it really does feel like they will hand out these degrees to just anyone.
@@apollofell3925 yeah Hellen Keller wouldn't have gotten on this thing
They most certainly will be regulated after the enquiry
the parallels you make with safety and both involving the titanic is clever and poetic
Thanks!
Thank you!
Very informative video as always Sal, thanks for sharing.
Howdy neighbor, getting ready to hit 100K. Awesome. Been here since Blancolirio suggested your channel. 8K subscribers back then as I recall
Thanks Wes. Appreciate having you on board.
Me too. What a great recommendation.
@@scottwheeler2494 crazy thing is after Blancolirio’s recommendation I discovered that Sal lives very close to me.
@@scottwheeler2494 Thanks Scott. Juan is a machine!
After hearing you, those people are gone, RIP, it's so sad they lost their life so easily
I am following this. Thanks for the information and discussion.
If it was an implosion at least they died quickly.
The chances of them recovering the bodies is pretty slim.
Someone once pointed out that the air in an imploding sub reaches thousands of degrees from compression. So yeah, not much chance.
I have a feeling we're not going to find anything. If it imploded, from the sounds of it the main section of the hull probably shattered completely. There's not even oil/fuel to form a slick on the surface.
Unfortunately, you can't fully regulate common sense. Emergency oxygen, but no emergency lighting or drinking water. Seems there was no intent for the crew to survive SHTF. What a shame.
Thank you for making this video.. I’ve learned more from this video than any video I’ve listened to on the titanic.. 🙏🏽
Super interesting. Helped me understand. Thanks!
OceanGate increasingly appears to be the video games company of submersibles. I'm sure legislation will follow this.
They remind me of Internet Of Things people.
There shouldnt be. Everyone wants to protect everyone from themselves and pillow coat the world. History and life as we know it was created by risk takers and sadly many tragedies. This is very sad but whats next? Ban skydiving, ban motorcycles, ban diving, let people live. Its what im sure every adventurer on board that sub would want.
The adventured to go to a location where lots and lots of people died, basically as a tour? They were discovering anything but thier demise.
Legislation isn't the solution of everything. Why are we putting rules in international seas?
@@jpyka4x4nk god there's someone with sense about them! The amount of ridiculous fear-mongering comments I've read the last two days from people who want to "ban because of safety," or they expect others to live in fear the rest of their lives like they do because of dangerous endeavors like these.
Western history is replete with those who perished attempting something extremely dangerous, whether it was human exploration, colonizing new lands, or experimental ventures. Anytime a major accident happens now in the 21st century, people want to immediately start banning with legislation. I think it was Sun-Tzu who said, "A civilization with too many laws is ripe for failure!"
I deal with this in high-altitude mountaineering, where, anytime someone perishes- out come the critics and armchair Monday morning quarterbacks talking about "being safe" or "not taking foolish risks." Most of these people live in fear in the comfortable confines of their living rooms while stuffing their face with junk food and Netflix! They wouldn't know what living was if it slapped 'em upside the head!
"Cowards die many times before their deaths, the valiant never taste of death but once" - Shakespeare
It's a prototype!
Not any more 😒
Love hearing your thoughts!!
GREAT info Sal..I only doubled up on my BP meds..😀
The hull was mostly carbon fiber so scuttlebutt has it that it shattered at 8500ft.
That matches the timeline. The sub hadn't reached the bottom yet.
@@philfortner1805 Yes it did, right as it lost communications
@@FrankBullitt390 She was about 2/3 of the way down. The Titanic sits in about 12500 feet, and the support ship stated it was about 2/3 of the way down. so some real rough calculations by me shows to be about 8500 feet, where they lost all comms. The pressure at that depth is about 3771.95 psi & IF one of the glue joints failed , you have the same effect, those on board are pulped & the electronics quit working
1st thing that popped into my head was why the hell is there not some type of emergency beacon emitting some sort sort of signal that can be tracked. Followed by many other thoughts indicating that this is a nelgligent ass corner cutting operation.
ULB/"pinger"
The first thing an experienced middle-aged guy would have insisted on - but hey - whatever
edited: to remove the "white" reference that the CEO used
@@gordslater I just noticed my comment could benefit from an edit. Several errors haha. I need to get in the habit of reviewing prior to posting. And appreciate the schooling on terminology. Good to know.
Appreciate the technical info. Thanks
Well put!
Thank you for your follow up report. I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again, you are my go to guy for these kinds of things.
"...classing agencies are unwilling to pursue the certification of new and innovative designs..."
Like driving the submersible with a Game Controller? I'd wager the classing agencies are unwilling because the designs are more dangerous than innovative.
It's because the designs are so specialist and unique that the agencies know nothing about them
As a former Coastie, I agree with you completely. I do not, however, like the idea of this kind of tourism on the grave marker for 1,517 souls. It is sheer hubris and completely unnecessary.
There are no bodies.
Very important to talk about! Good information.