OceanGate Titanic Sub Tragedy: Can families file lawsuits beyond signed Titan waivers? |
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 มิ.ย. 2023
- WFLA Now's JB Biunno is joined by special guests Peter Tragos, the #LawyerYouKnow, and retired U.S. Navy submariner Mark Martin to answer your questions about the legalities surrounding the OceanGate Titan submersible tragedy near the Titanic.
Footage of the ceo admiting to breaking some rules is wild.
that will absolutely play a role in court too. bet on it
It's public knowledge this craft cut corners. These are wealthy idiots who think they are above reality. No real loss to humanity.
What Mark said about certification - PLUS - Don't take civilians down until everything is determined to be safe. And if you do, then you are liable - no blanket waivers. My opinion is that the 3 civilians saw the other 2 guys as experts and that they discounted the waiver as something you have to sign to get to go - that it was just a formality - and they had confidence that they would have a successful trip down and back up.
Absolutely
Well, that was very silly of them. Can they not read the word 'death'?
There were Engineers who begged and pleaded all the way up there chain of command to not let the the Challenger liftoff that cold morning. They were warned that there were heat shields that were broken and that the early morning cold temperatures could cause those heat shields to come off and there would be a catastrophic explosion. They knew that they had left damaged heat shields on the craft. They had exchanged many damaged shields for new ones but it's all about money. They're not cheap. It was not a secret what would happen but they chose to take the risk and they killed seven Americans. That was our government who did that. Nobody in our government has a say and what people do in the private sector. If you can afford $250,000 then you're smart enough to look back in history to watch all the interviews and read all the books and interviews that these people had given over the last 15 years. You would have to be stupid to not know how dangerous this trip would have been for the passengers. There were a few people who came forward and express their fears but now we are listening to dozens of people Sunday morning quarterbacking. This is the third year that Ocean Gate has been dropping that submergible down to the Titanic and Olney now people want to go after them. Politicians should just stay busy doing nothing except the corruption that they already do.
You can die driving a car to work.
True enough, well said
I found this channel during this submersible coverage and I gotta say I will FOREVER look to this station for any breaking world news. I work in a wood shop and I listened to this coverage from 930 am to 430 pm yesterday. The way this guy covers stories and brings in guests and public commentary is ground breaking way to go!
They did great with the Gabby Petito case. Ever since then, I follow them.
Right.....I found them last year and always go to there for big stories! He's great!
alright you convinced me, subbing now
I did too. I like the channel a lot!😅😅
I started listening when JB covered the Petito case.
Genuine people, unbiased, smart, respectful. Love WFLA and I live in CT!
So I think one point that was missed about certification vs. 'stifling innovation' is this; this was not and experimental craft of a lone explorer. This was a company that was charging money commercially. It's not some 'first' building a submersible that can reach those depts. It's completely doable safely with the proper material and experienced engineers in the industry. It just cost money that this company didn't want to spend.
Stockton was a narcissist. He felt right, entitled, invincible. He acted accordingly. There are 4 victims and one criminal, who died here. I hope his estate and OceanGate get sued into bankruptcy and disappear as surely as if they had imploded.
But those onboard made a CONSCIOUS decision to go!!!! I’m so not understanding how any of us even want to find someone else to blame for this sad turn of events. They all CHOSE to participate-- no matter how much of an ALLEGED scumbag “Stockton” was. They CHOSE to participate in the voyage. Help me understand this lawsuit talk.
@@TheOfficialEbonyprincess Precisely, you have to do the risk analysis individually.
I do not want to lose the right to do things "at my own risk".
Stockton Rush was the company. It was privately owned. So the company only exists on paper since the owner was imploded along with his submersible.
@@TheOfficialEbonyprincess supposedly the teen didn't want to go his dad pushed him into it.
“Why the Bahamas?”
The Bahamas are notorious for legal loopholes, and a way to avoid litigation. Anna Nicole Smith fled there when trying to get sole custody of her child because of their loose laws.
In Ana Nicole Smith documentary we learned BAHAMAS is the dodgy place to go if you are in fear of lawsuits.
Wow, this "company", just wow!
Wow..just wow..that tells me there's something very wrong surrounding this company in every aspect. . people usually use the Bahamas for hiding stuff like money...this tragedy is opening a box of worms.. ..just wow.i don't know where to start.
@@d33763 Have you ever been on a cruise ship? As soon as you leave port you're under the jurisdiction of whatever flag the ship is flying....and they can fly whatever flag they choose.
It's a great place to visit.
For many reasons...
I genuinely don’t believe that a man who knew all these risks would take his nineteenth year old child. I think they dumbed it down to him in order for him to not only board the thing but also bring his son.
Someone with his money and knowledge to make it, is not that estranged to what the risks where. If so , his wife was way more intelligent by turning the trip down to let the son go. They settled a law suit out of court , doesn't that tell you that they knew the man was right that it was not safe , and in need of repair? That was a very unresponsible, unforgiving, disaster from the start.
Read my response@. medi8057 bellow
He knew, and everyone else, knew of the lawsuit, and how fragile the mission was. The people prior to this mission experienced a close call. No secret , it was news worthy. Unresponsle parenting, and self love. They all knew it was extremely dangerous, and still jumped right into the mouth of jaws. No family member of mine that close would of gone before I would of bleeded out before they went. Disaster was waiting to happen real soon. Sadly so it did.
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By following her trades do you mean copying her trades? I have heard about copying trades
Hi - This reminds me of: On January 28, 1986, the Space Shuttle Challenger broke apart 73 seconds into its flight, killing all seven crew members aboard. Wasn't the teacher a civilian? Civilians don't belong in these experimental situations in my opinion.
Yes ... I remember being in class (2nd grade) and the teachers wheeling in the box TVs on carts for us to was it live, which we did. There were just gasps and silence. Teachers even ran outside to view the launch for themselves. 😢 We live in Palm Beach (hour south of the space center) and we can see the launch when it's not too cloudy. We get to see Space X launch just driving down 95 ... pretty wild. But yes, this incident reminds me of the civilian life lost on challenger exploration ... although we live on the water and there are inherent risks. We go kayaking in our backyard knowing gators share the same body of water and we go swimming in the ocean aware of rip currents and sharks.
This submersible was made of improbable, BAD technology. JB, listen to James Cameron, listen to the engineer who was fired after his concerns became public.
But, WHO PAID for all the searches??? We did!!!
Nothing has been reported yet about what the total cost of the search and recovery will cost 🤔
@@AnnaMorris411they said at the press conference yesterday that they don’t give costs because they don’t put a monetary cost on human life and they answer every call, no matter the expense.
@@emm8357 I wonder if "put a monetary cost on human life" applied during the pandemic.
I'm from Australia. But when it comes to international headline news. This is where I'm going to come ❤ your an asset to the community bro 💪
Yes they can. A lawyer once told me that these types of agreements won't hold water in court. Especially since the ceo was warned about safety issues and chose to dismiss them.
Really failing to certify the vessel was not just a risk to the safety of the people on it but a giant legal risk for Ocean Gate. I box and the gym has a similar waiver (basically you acknowledge you are participating in an inherently dangerous sport that could result in injury or death). But they also have coaches and trainers and the ring is located on their property. So if an expert (coach) were to knowingly put you in the ring with someone way better than you and you get seriously hurt it's unlikely that waiver would hold up. Stockton is the "coach" in this analogy.
Even though some materials of the pressure chamber were so-called "experimental" and not certified, the passengers were told this, but I've heard the glass used was certified to only 1500 feet. I would believe that knowingly using materials that was not appropriate for certain depths would make them liable, if you can prove that's the part that caused the implosion.
I saw another video, I'll try to find it, that said the material was fine. The certification issue was how oceangate was using the product. The company wouldn't certify it to work the way oceangate was using it.
No the port window was only certified for 1300 meters not feet but the titanic is still 3 times deeper then that and i guarantee that is what breached.
Wow a guarantee! It wasn't the carbon fiber hull but the window. Ok, we'll see.
As a lawyer, I can tell you the defendants cannot get the plaintiffs to waive negligence. And it looks like there was plenty of negligence.
...and I'm sure there are lawyers who want the family to sue. They like the billable hours. The company has no money, so.....
It seems the negligence was well documented. I wonder if that makes the waiver more powerful.
U climbing a gamble your bet win are loose..they new and had a choice..live with it
But apparently the company didn’t have insurance and was not profitable
@@sarahbrown5073exactly. These lawyers just want to make money. The CEO is dead…
The participants knew that they could ALL die. No waiver is even needed to know the actual risks.
We've watched every minute of Mark's commentary this week. Thank you JB and Mark for covering this in such depth and with such dignity. You rock, Mark!
Not only the waver will be thrown out but there is a good chance of suing late owners estate, i.e. going through corporate veil.
This was beyond gross negligence.
Yep- it could be deemed that this aquatic vessel was inherently so dangerous that a person can’t waive their right to sue.
This really goes without saying but we must remember that 5 people just lost their lives, and after seeing the grief, and pain, that my wife has gone thru this year because her father passed away of illness in January, please remember to show compassion to ALL involved. There are families and friends who will never be able to properly lay these lost loved ones to rest, and that’s got to be an absolutely horrible feeling for them. Having said that, this excursion was obviously a mistake, but it’s done. If I were a family member or friend I would want to mourn properly, and then try to move on. And it does not sound like any families left behind need money that a lawsuit may bring, just my opinion. May they Rest In Peace.
Lawsuits aren’t for the rich or poor. A lawsuit benefits everyone in the future as a WARNING
They knew the risks. They paid alot of money to take those risks. Why didn't their families stop them. So don't start lecturing us now they're dead!
@@matrixreloaded667 innocent? They VOLUNTARILY paid, agreed to go, and signed to attest to that in writing - it’s called taking accountability for your own decisions, even if tragedy ensues. It’s horrible, yes, but criminal? Nothing was hidden from them, and if they had questions or doubts they should have made a different choice.
We're not some collective community. Words said on the internet are just BS. I don't think I need to be careful what I say because the family might read it do I?
It is possible to feel compassion for those left behind AND be angry at the shear hubris of the CEO. Humans are capable of feeling all kinds of emotions, some conflicting with each other, simultaneously and just because they are expressing one, doesn’t mean they are not experiencing the rest. The first emotion that rises to the surface is anger at the senselessness of this FOR MONEY.
These people signed these waivers under false assumptions that this irresponsible CEO gave them. The "safety" of this vehicle, was a lie. The families however, did not sign anything. He told them it was safe, unsinkable, he gave them FALSE assurance. Stockton lied, and all of this falls on him. I feel bad for the 19 year old, whose aunt stated he was terrified and did not want to go, but went to make his father happy since it was Father's Day.
You do realize your going down 2.5 miles in an experimental vessel.
Why didn't send robots down first
Before humans
@@andrewtaylor-qc8cb You do realize people have been to the Titanic and filmed it. These dummies just wanted to see it with their own eyes in person.
We may never know why or what they went down there looking for?
@@davidwhitten3596There are waivers for a lot of things. The point is no one expects their death is the result of gross negligence. There is a reason why waivers can’t be used to protect a person or company from gross negligence. You can’t waive gross negligence aka criminal negligence.
When there is fraud, negligence, misrepresentation, and clear violation of the law, then the victims are entitled to damages.
These people were billionaires and investors who were well-educated. They should have been smart enough to know that this crappy tube Jerry-rigged with cheap plastic fittings and a gaming console was dangerous. The family deserves nothing. The victims were idiots.
Yup. Like the law won't allow a person to consent to too much interest. People think waivers mean their hands are clean, but they don't.
@@Cwgrlup Education is a very broad term. Just because you are educatied doesnt mean that you know about submarines etc. You cant be educated on every topic.
Very subjective to causes of implosion and fatality, and its direct impact on the victims.
Here for the lawyer you know!!! Love Peter Tragos!!
Hi JB, I thought you might be interested in the following. I just watched a video posted on TH-cam 4 hours ago by a man named Jake. The name of his channel is “DALLMYD”, an adventurer, he has 13.4M followers. He and his girlfriend were supposed to be on the Titanic expedition several weeks ago, but it had to be cancelled. He documented their time on the mother vessel taking them to the wreckage site. He has actual footage of Stockton Rush telling them why their trip down to the wreckage had to be cancelled. It’s very chilling. He also possibly has the last autograph of Paul-Henri. He was in the room directly across from them on the vessel. This is all so very sad. Thank you for everything you do. God bless and protect the grieving families of the five who so tragically lost their lives 🙏💔😔
I left a comment about this mins ago and it got deleted
TH-cam deletes post at times.
Doesn’t the Titan company have to prove there was no negligence on their behalf before the waivers can be legit?
The fact that I watch WFLA and I don’t even live in Florida 😂 I love it here for the greatest live coverage. Thank you JB Biunno
Same! I live in SoCal and watch WFLA all the time 😂
Ditto 😂
Same ! I'm in Virginia and I always tune into WFLA every day !
Canada here !
How would anyone in their right mind think going 2 miles under water and think nothing could happen? The more you put a vessel under that kind of critical stress 23 times without any inspection? Even deep dive subs are only allowed to search these depths without regular inspections and some of these require specialized equipment
Even though they signed the waiver , were they informed of all of the issues & safety concerns the sub had prior ? I think they do have a case .
Waivers actually don't hold up all that well in court; you cannot sign away your rights. If I had you sign a waiver that said you were my slave... that wouldn't hold up in court at all
That's what I'm saying.. I highly doubt he told them people the issues that tin can was having and the sever lack of safety.. I can't imagine any sane person hearing him describe the countless issues/ and lack of safety and STILL getting on knowing the probability of death were astronomical.
It wasn’t about signing away the rights but signing away the liability of risks at specific conditions… interesting tho …
The CEO of OceanGate is dead and the company is bankrupt....let it go.
Not likely...😢
You are amazing, JB. I found you on TH-cam randomly and now, you are my go to each day. The coverage…the discussion…the love you have for what you do…it’s incredible. The guests you have are incredible (love the lawyer you know)! Sharing your channel with all I can!!
I love Joe Biden too. Greatest president in world history. And Nancy Pelosi is a fox and a saint.
But is he a Trump supporter???
@@imho2278 Does it matter for this video?
@@imho2278who cares? Americans are so utterly obsessed with political nonsense and want to cancel everyone for following this one or that one.
Around the same time as the sub event a boat with 750 immigrants capsized near Spain.
Authorities knew exactly where it was and did nothing for 10 hours. People died
That was not the mistake of authorities though. They contacted the vessel several times asking if it required assistance. Were always told no as of course it was filled to the brim with illegal immigrants and the last thing they wanted is have the authorities there. Of course it was sad but it was a fully illegal operation.
@@IloveCamels335
A reporter name Lydia Emmanouilidou said we know that the boat capsized overnight local time on Wednesday last week. We also know the Greek Coast Guard was observing the vessel for several hours before it sank.
The question is why didn't the Coast Guard intervene.
The above is an official local new report.
I appreciate the journalism here seeking and reporting the facts from the technical and legal perspective, but also for remembering the people lost and continuing to humanize this story. Your ending conversation with Mr Martin was respectful and real. Thank you. Thoughts and prayers with these families who have lost their loved ones.
Just found you guys! Wish I found this channel sooner. JB I want to personally thank you for being so respectful to the ones who have lost their lives. I didn’t know any of them but the way you are so respectful really blow me away. It’s nice to watch genuine people!
I am sure that OceanGate never shared the letter of warning sent to OceanGate from the society of underwater explorers. That in itself would be a clear case of not disclosing the unanimous and serious warnings raised by this society as to the safety and worthiness of the hull. I would think this will make any signed waiver null and void.
Nope. Waiver states you could die three times. You don't have to give people every document your company possesses.
@@TheTrevelyansway Details are important. If they intentionally and deliberately left details out and misrepresented things, then the waiver is worthless.
JB you are a honorable man. Following you since Gabby. Thank you for your hard, diligent work.
Professional, respectful, well thought out, honest expertise-this whole video demonstrated all of this. I am so impressed and quite frankly, at a loss for words to describe how excellent watching this was. All US journalists should watch this; it set THE bar on how coverage of tragedies should unfold!! So appreciate Mark’s contribution. 💯💯💯💯 Everyone on this team - moderators, the producers, the host…an ‘A’ plus video. 💯💯💯💯💯💯💯✨
No remains for the family 😢 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
So many people is hungry around the world 🌍 and we take our money to do stupid things
My condolence to the family
Thank you for all the coverage that Youall put to this.
Too much coverage
Companies cut corners to gain profits then use waivers to avoid liability. Disgusting!
Thanks JB enjoyed your coverage on this! I appreciate Marks final thoughts. I can see and feel he said everything in the most respectful way as possible. Awesome to see Peter on. I always go to his channel for his perspective on law things if he’s covering it.
Please ask them about the guy that was fired. For telling them it will not work
Comprehensive, intelligent opinions put forth by Tragos and Martin. I was gratified by Mr. Biunno ability to moderate and let interviewees speak w/out being interrupted. It was a very sober interesting interview--learned a great deal.
Peter Tragos is very handsome…🌟🌟🌟
Rest in peace to the passengers who past away.
God bless them and all their families.
Awesome video great point of views…🌟🌟🌟🌟
During a routine surgery my brother contracted MRSA and the outtcome of the lawsuit said it was an "inherant risk and not negligent"...nothing in comparison to this but gives you an idea.....
Then you need to try the case in the mafia court at home over a beer.
Infections ARE an inherent risk when it comes to surgery, genius... you don't get to sue and win a million dollars for that 😂
OH MY GOD, that is HORRID. I am so sorry foryour brother. My brither worked in a hospital cleaning hte operating room and he said htat MRSA is HORRIBLE and KLEB is worse. THAT is terrible he was tols it was an inherent risk..Someone we know had her husband scheduled for some operation and came out with a yeast infection from unclean tools- UGH. disgusting!
@somnuswaltz5586 you do when you have a major neck surgery and the doctor sends you home 8 hours later even though the surgeon said you were staying for a couple of days causing an infection so bad you needed a 2nd surgery to clean out the infection and the CDC had to get involved.
Surgery is an entirely different ballgame! When a surgeon nicked my cerebellum in my brain surgery, I did not go after him. I was willing to accept the consequences of an emergency surgical procedure. I AM alive. What's the trade off? My life and a much improved sense of humor - none existed, previously. And, oh yeah, a significant disability. Live and learn - or die.
I think one key lesson to be learned from this tragedy is that there is absolutely no room for arrogance in exploration, especially in such a high-risk enterprise as deep sea exploration. Mr. Rush was advised, or should I say warned, by experts in the deep ocean diving community that his carbon fiber craft was potentially unsafe, yet he chose to ignore what he was told.
Oh, that guy had plenty of arrogance.
Definitely a fuq around and find out moment
God be with the whole community and the families impacted in this horrible event🙏🙏🙏😢
The hull was made of carbon fiber. I watched a video wherein someone said that Stockton Rush and others "heard" the carbon fiber crackling even in the beginning and during all the subsequent dives. Crackling of the carbon fibers is, to me, a clear indication that the fibers are separating!
Yes, he told them it was normal.
@@noellegunning3301Stockton Rush was a lunatic. Something about this reminded me of Elizabeth Holmes and the Theranos debacle. She's another one that though she knew everything.
Thank you so much for this informative, sincere, kind coverage. 💜💜🇦🇺 love to you all from Australia. So very well presented. Thanks JB, Mark and the Lawyer You Know.
This wasn't just "normal" risk.... This was absolutely gross negligence! That CEO even admitted he thought safety was not something needed bc it gets in the way of innovation...... Well, now he would know why safety was so important!
Agreed the 19 year old is the only one that really pulls my emotional strings. Poor baby. As a mother I cannot imagine
Blessed you heart ! I am agree with you 💯👍. I wished Suleman had the thoughtful Mom and DAD like you !And not those parents who was blind with MONEY !
These were not explorers, they were EXPLOITERS! The Titanic is a consecrated memorial and it has been found and explored, and the videos are publicly available and can even be obtained for free in many cases from public libraries. The composition of vessels that travel to extreme environments, be that the vacuum of space or the depths of the ocean requires better material composition than off the shelf game controllers and carbon fiber for the hull. Carbon Fiber has excellent tensile stress capabilities but the inherent composition of these materials are a deficient design material for implosive environments.
If you watch the video of the father and son who were going to be on this expedition but cancelled because they didnt think it was safe, it was the 20 year old son who raised the red flag to his dad. A 19 year old is perfectly capable to make decisions about their lives. Very sad, but they knew the risks. Going that deep into the ocean is more dangerous than going to space.
The aunt said the 19 yo did not want to go. He finally did to appease his father. Out of them all., he had the most common sense. And yet, 19 yo men want to please their dads.
@@claudiastokes6485exactly. The twenty-year-old son who told his father he didn't want to go because he didn't think it was safe he had a different dad and a different personality. And we can't assume that the nineteen-year-old had the same ability to speak up to his dad about his concerns. We don't know what his dad was like maybe it was something that he felt a lot of pressure to do. It's sad that he was terrified and that he felt had to go for his dad's sake. He obviously couldn't have said no or he probably would have because he was afraid. Some dads don't take no for an answer very easily.
@@therealdeal3672 yes! I don't know where the 20 yo is from, but the 19 was from Pakistan. They have very traditional family values. Even though sons have more freedom than daughters, that doesn't mean they don't feel they want to please their fathers. I heard the father was very passionate about the wonders of the world and had been on other explorations.
What the hell do you know about consequences and life in general when you’re 19!! He’s straight out of school! Your brain -your pre frontal lobe isn’t even fully developed until your 25. It’s insane to use the 18= adult which was used to draft kids for war at this day and age when we know otherwise. You can’t even buy a beer until you’re 21. Suddenly a 19 year old child is expected to study the engineering data only known to experts and is responsible for a life changing decision which he isn’t even equipped to make??
@@Thepc425well I would say they need to hold his father accountable for that then not be company
There is a big difference in saying this is a expiremental dangerous activity and you could die, but we've never had an accident (sky diving, bungee jumping, river rafting) and we are using materials that engineers do not approve of and we have been told by multiple people (including our own employees) that we are putting your lives in certain death!!! Big difference!!!
The Bahamas has the lowest taxes and regulations, and that's why most super yachts are flaged in the Bahamas or the British Virgan Islands .
If the waiver said there is chance you might die, I don’t know how much more clarity you could provide. They signed and knew the risk.
I was under the impression that the person that designed it, and the person who endorsed it, were both on board.
thats one and the same person, but yes; he was also on board. The CEO of OceanGate ( and he was also co founder).
They all signed a ‘death contract’ acknowledging their death might occur. Hard to Sue.
The CEO was on board. He didn't solely design it
They can sue the CEO,s mom and dad in the USA!
@@harryv6147really ? That doesn’t seem right and defo wouldnt be the case here in Scotland
You can sue anybody for anything.. Just don't expect to get paid in the next 10 years.. As they drag things like this out in the courts..Only people that do get paid. The Lawyers...
if there were misrepresentations or construction shortcuts were not disclosed before signing the waiver...the contract is null and void...as a meeting of minds is required for a legal contract. After learning about how crucial steps were not taken (like proper depth tests that were certified), the families of the victims have a wrongful death suit IMO. Also, their money should be refunded
They said Boeing had something to do with building the titan and Boeing said no they did not right there is fraudulent and a reason to end up suing because it Boeing built it they would be getting sued. Also, I’m sure.
@@shannonpartridge9608 No one is getting sued over this. No one. NASA helped build it, too. Sue NASA...lmao.
@@shannonpartridge9608Same goes for NASA and the University of Washington. Clearly lots of claims that were outright lies just to look more reputable than they really were
@@shannonpartridge9608Nasa was also involved
NASA nor Boeing had anything to do with building Titan
I'm dealing with litigation right now, a different matter, but they signed a legal binding contract that told of all the ways they could die even a "catastrophic failure" and this was all experimental. It would be gracious for Oceangate to refund the $250,000 X 3 to the families (not that they need it) but if nothing else, the purpose of the dive was to see the Titanic site and they never made it to the intended destination.
The waiver does not exonerated the company from negligence. So yes, they can, will and should sue.
....but they haven't, so....
They did one thing wrong AFAIC, their use of carbon fibre as the main hull material of choice. CF has excellent tensile strength to weight ratio. However, CF fares poorly under compression stresses. That's why you never see the use of CF as a critical load bearing structural member of an extremely deep sea submersibles …before now. Under extreme compression loads, it takes just a single crack midweave for it to catastrophically shatter, aka instantly implode.
I must say I really appreciate this livestream and guests being here and interacting with audience 👍 great job it has been really interesting and highly informative for me 🙏 thank you
Hello from California! I just wanted to say this is my main news channel so glad your on TH-cam 😊❤😊
Our question is who is going to be financially responsible for the costs involved with this Rescue/Recovery in this incident ?
From what I’ve read, the company won’t have to reimburse that money spent (I read an article prior to the remains of the sub being found), unless they wanted to keep searching past Thursday.
who cares ,,, nobody talks about money if they survive but now they are dead .. so people asking about money O_o ... the company for sure + lawsuite ...
OceanGate is done
The family should have to foot the bill they’re already millionaires they’re about to get inheritance I’m sure they can afford it I don’t see why I work in families who are already struggling should have to foot the bill
They sign a waiver (basically diving at your own risk) created by a lawyer before going down there and paying a quarter of a million.
The tour company should be billed their entirety of the rescue cost. 0 cents should come from taxpayer's pockets. Of course, we already know that's not gonna happen.
Love you guys and enjoyed listening. Thank you for always putting out great content. Appreciated.
JB, Peter and Mark.. the dream team!!!
Outstanding coverage and an incredibly refreshing approach to the news. Mark was such an invaluable contributor. Knowledgable, measured, and transparent. New sub from over the pond. Keep up the excellent work. MSM has had its day. You are the future 🕊💌
Exactly. And such a wonderful distraction from the Hunter Biden revelations and the outrageous failure of the American offensive in Ukraine. I'll bet the government and media alike are thrilled this story came up. Look over here at the shiny thing. Lol
I read that the naval ship topside, heard the implosion on their equipment. Why did they waste all those resources if that's the case. They could have just sent down 1 ROV.
@@alidabotes6264❤❤❤
JB is great.
Nice coverage m8.
Prayers for all involved. 🙏🏻
Cheers from U.K. Great to find this channel and thank you for you user friendly information.
Excellent channel! Thank you for your approach. Real journalism still exists!
Not thinking straight, desperate to cut cost as well as not following safety rules, experimenting not by himself but taking others who trusted him down with him... to keep going down & never taking it apart and checking everything, yearly, getting certified, this guy was extremely intelligent but delusional, arrogant & way overconfident.
There's an interview where he's so proud he broke the rules making carbon fiber/ titanium sub. Now look at the consequences
@@marcusreilly1011 yeah I saw that... ironic now we see the consequences to his arrogance/ignorance.
The waiver is worded to mention the risks, but we all know that waivers are always required legally for ANY activity that has ANY inherent risk. They then downplayed the risks verbally and mentioned the years without incident, the experience the team has, and the overkill that waivers are.
Very good discussion. I appreciated very much how the moderator, JB Biunno, kept the discussion away from a superficial level, and was very careful and measured in his choice of words. Mark Martin, considering his connection to the deceased CEO, was very neutral and truthful in his statements. You can tell though that he wasn't in the upper echelon of the US Navy - he was careful, but also told us mostly what we wanted to know - and I really appreciate that. I have one simple question - if you knew that the CEO of the company was going to be along on the trip, would you decline to sign the waiver?
JB you have done an awesome job reporting on this tragedy and you have given us answers to try to understand this plus your guests were amazing also especially Mark…..thank you all and again sending prayers to these families
I am not a lawyer, but yes, the families must sue because of all the lies and deceit committed by greedy CEOs bent on taking all sorts of shortcuts to maximize profits for the CEO.
The CEO died too.
They victims are actual billionaires, and were all close to each other
You can complain all you want....billionaires don't care what you think, and they'll do whatever they want.
Still waiting on those lawsuits....
Aren’t all the families VERY WEALTHY? And they are contemplating suing? For what? Taking a joyride that went south?
For closure
@@foreveryoung999how does money provide closure for billionaires?
So it dosnt happen again God bless
No one knows if anyone is suing.. it’s just a question in some people’s mind for this case.. if someone is wealthy they don’t deserve compensation if there was neglect? So just because Vanessa Bryant is a millionaire she shouldn’t have sued when a disgusting cop took pictures of Kobe and his daughter postmortem and was showing them at a party? They most definitely should sue.. it sicks that we the tax payer has to pay for that lawsuit
JB thank you for such a great job you do to bring us all the important information to us we all appreciate you!
Impressive panel and a great interviewer/reporter. You allowed your guests to speak and interjected so appropriately. Nicely done on such a important topic.
I'm sorry there is no waiver that will save OceanGate from the impending wrongful death lawsuits. This is gross negligence if not wanton negligence.
OceanGate doesn't have any money. They were broke. The fuel for each trip cost a million dollars. The only assets were their two other submersibles.
@@sarahbrown5073wow! Didn't know that!! I read someone said they had paid and signed up for a trip but never got to go due to cancellations, but never got reimbursed!!
You couldn't pay me a billion dollars to go in that sub. But the families will waste even more money paying for lawyers. It's useless that waiver is pretty iron clad and they knew the risks. They literally signed their lives away.
Pretty easy to say you wouldn't go on the sub now isn't it?! Jeez
@@TheTrevelyansway ummm yeah. Very easy lol
The waiver is useless. You can't sign away your basic rights, and the company is required to take all steps to keep customers safe even if a waiver signed. They openly did not.
Just found your show & I like it...thx! Will keep an eye out for more shows.😊
I heard the one guy on tv say, the sub was "NOT tested and NOT certified" and he then said, "where do I sign"! They knew what they were getting into, and unfortunately they paid the ultimate price! I don't see a lawsuit though, they went of their own accord! IF, they can prove negligence, then yes they can get a lawsuit!
I wonder if any of the people on board had their own private lawyers look over the waivers before they signed it. I would assume that their lawyers would advise against signing something like this? Maybe not, but you think a lawyer could see that the company was admitting to not doing testing, getting inspections, or classifications. That would be a major red flag for negligence.
You would think so given their net worth.
I would assume they can file a lawsuit. Just because there was a risk of death diving down doesn't mean the company gets a pass on avoiding testing and maintenance.
What good would a lawsuit do if the company doesn't have the funds to pay?
@@sarahbrown5073 you name the executives also. That allows you to pursue their personal assets. I guarantee you those execs are already trying to hide money off shore lol.
@@joshsummers7933 The whole company was offshore.
No one is getting sued because it would be extremely expensive, they probably won't win, and if they do... there's no money to receive anyway. The company was bankrupt.
Lawyer's always think there's a case....it's how they make their living.
@@sarahbrown5073 it's a US based company operating in international waters. And I still think his personal assets can be named in a lawsuit as well.
Thank you for having LYK on your show.... I love both you handsome guys.😊
It is such a tragedy that we lost 5 of those explorers at 1 time. I respect explorers for doing the things that most of us will not and can't afford.
They are just rich tourists who climb the Everest at the expense of a 100 sherpas carrying them to the top, they travel to space with real astronauts doing their job for them, there are real explorers real scientists who further mankind’s progression and these people are not it.
Good journalism, Thank you! It's a pleasure to listen in
JB you are an asset to your news channel...thanks for asking the right questions.
Signing a waiver without knowing what's actually involved, or signing under disinformation can easily invalidate the waiver. The only claim proof waiver is one signed by your lawyer. This is just common sense.
There’s no way a billionaire with lawyers is allowed to do this. Especially when millionaire sports players can’t.
Go to a used car salesman they will copy and paste your signature on all kinds of things you adamantly said you did not want and they won't let you see what they signed you up to buy and when you get home and put the thumbdrive in your computer you done drove it off the lot! And don't expect the attorney general to help or a private attorney because if doesnt work that way!
As i understand it, no waiver will cover willful negligence. It seems that a waiver of risk is only valid if the company as taken every reasonable precaution in providing its service. Something like intentional skirting of regulations might invalidate that.
I agree, I think there is a "reasonable expectation" that they have done everything possible to make it safe, Did they know (or the young man at least) that their were people who said it was NOT safe? two people who wouldn't sign off on its safety got fired.
😅😅
Mark Martin is an invaluable source in the industry definitely authentic balanced view.
Thank you both for discussing compassion shown.
The Royal Canadian Navy and USCG should present a justified and hefty bill to the company as well. The rescue efforts surely cost millions.
Affixing one's signature to a waiver, devoid of a comprehensive understanding of the underlying implications or in the presence of misleading information, can readily undermine the validity of said waiver. The sole manifestation of a legally enforceable waiver is one that is endorsed with the guidance and expertise of a qualified legal representative. Such a notion inherently resonates with basic discernment and prudence.
How can a business owner ensure that the signatory consulted a lawyer? Did Physer need ensure we talked to a lawyer before giving us an experimental MRNA Gene Therapy?
You seem to be moving the responsbility for a sgnature from the person signing, and saying that jump is obvious.
Should they put a line in the contract saying " you have a 50 / 50 chance of dying" ? 80% of the people who show up to do something like thi would sgn that because they want to to the thing, and since nobody had actually died at the time that line would be for what?
The man died with the thing he invented, you cannot ask for more than that - everybody else sgned.
So, you're claiming billionaires who run multinational corporations are ignorant?
@@unifiedtheoryoflife9922 Exactly....but our government won't allow anyone to sue them, will they?
@@sarahbrown5073 Nobody should be sued imo. The riders acknowledged the risk, and died from said risk. Stake holders high in the company, including the owner, took the samescknowledged risk routinely
If the guy was marketing to children and scarring them for life, I would have an issue with it, but people climb Everest, people do the flying squirrel suit, should we sue all teh thingz?
No, if you sign ssomething you don't understand, tough luck.
They fired an employee for raising safety concerns so yeah I think that gives families some leverage in a lawsuit.
Akoha, JB !
Scrolling up & diown this morning, heard your voice, glanced up & saw you on the screen.
What a pleasant surprise for me! Had not seen nor heard your show since last Sept. I think.
Your sensitive reporting on Gabby's cross-country story, got me through that trajic ordeal, & wanted to thank you for your seemingly tireless work as an exemplary journalist.
Wishing you Many Blessings for all of your future endeavors.
Thanks wfla news. Love your coverage. Mark is amazing as well is Peter.
Great discussion Gentlemen!
This really changes the ballgame significantly across a number of professional fields.
We love to demonize Risk & Compliance but this catastrophy proves how necessary the regulatory frameworks are in curbing innovation.
Freewill has it's dangers.
RIP to the victims and condolences to their families.
But it's not curbing innovation. Sending people in unsafe condition is madness. Innovate until you make something reasonably safe, given current tech. Which this was not.
@@bogdiworksV2 What metrics do you use to determine this vessel unsafe? I'm not saying it was safe or not, but how does one rate this? This is a grey area and there are only a handful of privately owned submersibles in the world. It's easy to make assertions about safety on a vessel we know little to nothing about but it also makes us look foolish.
@@paulweston8184 I figure there are ways to do this, since there are other submersibles and subs out there that have not had similar fates. Also, don't man the vehicle until you test it more (I've seen it suggested it you should test it dozens if not hundreds of times). From what I have seen explained, there was not just one issue with this submersible, but many. So I don't think anyone looks foolish if they talk about lack of safety in this case.
Such well done livestreams JB and Mark. No one would guess you only just met a couple of days ago, for what should have been a short interview of an expert in the field, love when gems like Mark are found!
Take Care Mark, sure do hope to see you again!
I agree explorers need to be free to innovate and take risks but you don’t take passengers!!! A 19 year should NOT have been allowed to participate. It should be a risk only people who have lived a full adult life undertake. I only feel devastated a young man lost his life who felt pressured to go.
You are all 3 wonderful,. I will go back to what you have all said. . A special thank you to Mr Martin ❤
Short answer: yes.
Waivers don't protect against criminal charges such as criminal negligence.
People have to start taking responsibility for their decisions. Nobody forced anyone on the sub and these were not ignorant people, quite the opposite. People always wanna sue in hindsight. It's pathetic.
I think the same.surely this should be common sense.greed an lack of responsibility
It's a very American thing and why you have so many lawyers.
@@imho2278 not American just ignorance and ignorance isn't just limited to North and South America.
@@imho2278 Exactly. Just because lawyers think you have a case....doesn't actually mean you have a case.
VERY OUTSTANDING COVERAGE APPRICIATE ALL THE INFORMATION YOU HAVE GIVEN EVERYONE DEFINETLY HELPS UNDERSTANDIN RATHER THAN BEING CONFUSED RIP TO ALL 5 PEOPLE ON THAT VESSAL
Excellent coverage
I've subscribed
Yes you can sue if the waiver didn’t state all the facts or Hide something
It clearly stated that they could die and they did.
@@omeeawakened2371 no sh@t Sherlock but if they hid any defects from the submarine the waiver is null and void
Watching replay, Great show! Mark Martin is a wise, intelligent, and I hope he will be on your show again!!! ✌️❤