Titan Wreckage Analyzed: What Has Been Recovered and What Does it Mean?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.ค. 2024
- Wreckage Analysis: TITAN
What's Going on With Shipping?
June 29, 2023
In this episode, Sal Mercogliano - maritime historian at Campbell University (@campbelledu) and former merchant mariner - discusses the Titan submersible wreckage brought back into St. Johns, Newfoundland and analyzes the pictures of the recovered fragments and what do they indicate?
#Titanic #Titan #titanicsubmerisble #OceanGate #Dive #submersible
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00:00 Introduction & Layout of Titan
04:18 Forward Titanium Cap
05:34 Rear Equipment Bay
08:05 Titanium End Rings
09:11 Landing Frame
12:15 What Does Human Remains Mean?
Titanic tourist sub photos show wreckage being brought ashore
www.bbc.com/news/world-us-can...
'Presumed human remains' found at Titan debris site, says U.S. coast guard
www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfou...
The Story of the Titan Submersible Has Not Ended
www.nytimes.com/2023/06/27/op...
🚨🚨To all...Great comments and discussions. I appreciate all the great insight, comments, and even some inside knowledge on this event. As I state in my videos, I love when we can raise the level of discussion, discourse, and knowledge on a topic. 🚨🚨
What about the confiscated voice data recorder from Mother ship?
go woke, sub go broke.
13:57 😊😅😢😅
Two notes, first it's already announced the sub told its surface vessel their hull alarm had gone off and they were dropping ballast. The ship's crew did not share this information immediately and waited a long time before they even declared the sub missing. The sub had some kind of acoustic based sensors to listen for problems in the fiber.
Second, ultra deep vessels sometimes have NO connections or ports between the inside and outside. The internal space has self contained power and life support and all control is through wireless connections. Thus even at nearly triple the depth, all you need to do is prevent collapse while supplying breathable air and a survivable temperature. The external equipment is often filled with some kind of oil or other pressure resistant fluid. Simple and redundant are the priorities for designing controls. Titan tried to cut costs by using generic screens and wireless controllers, other vessels have more analog controls and individual indicators which gives the pilot area a more cockpit-like feel...but still mainly wireless links.
You posed a question about depth, saying we have no way to know, where abouts they were , but we do, navy microphone picked up the implosion, simple calculation as all factors are needed, time, time of contact/depth contact lost, velocity of sound under water
Cameron was saying that communication and tracking are two separate systems and losing both simultaneously is what convinced him of an implosion
Exactly.
Yes correct and also other expert made the same conclusion.
Yes and also simultaneously detection of a blast by the civil and military microphones . He stressed this out continiously
I'm still waiting to hear just what these communication and and tracking systems were.
@@danielgregg2530 I wish there was a nondistructable cockpit voice recorder. If not, that should be considered required equipment on any future missions.
Honestly never thought I'd want to know what's going on with shipping - but this channel's Titan content has been utterly absorbing.
Same!
Have they recovered the Bodies?
@@user-ih9dg3uz5yThere are no bodies. The energy during the implosion was equivalent to around 50kg of TNT. There's nothing left of them to recover.
People who say "honestly" are often dishonest.
So...I am dishonest?
As far as James Cameron goes, he stated that he came to the conclusion that the submersible suffered a catastrophic failure based on the loss of communication, the loss of tracking, AND after being informed by other oceanography experts telling him that a large bang was picked up in the area close to the time of communications and tracking loss. He is THE foremost expert in the field to publicly speak on this matter.
Exactly. This has already been covered by multiple sources which have interviewed Cameron. It's beyond me why the maker of this video is too lazy to do some research before recording it. Even I could have done a better job based on the intel that's currently available.
This!
He originally said he knew it imploded because of loss of comms and tracking, he said only a catastrophic loss would cause them to lose both.
@@bobbygetsbanned6049I think he said simultaneous loss of comms and tracking (which are independent of each other) could only be possible in a catastrophic implosion.
I just saw him saying he knew the very moment it crushed. The "bang". the loss of comms, and the tracking all gone in a second.
One thing I've seen from a leaked transcript (I have not had a chance to verify it) is that they dropped the frame because they were trying to ascend after getting an alarm and hearing hull noises. They were only able to ascend slowly, and hoped they would speed up if they dropped the frame. They had reached around 3500 m an hour earlier than they should have.
6:25 - James Cameron stated that: "They lost coms AND tracking at the same time, two separate systems with their own pressure vessels and power supply. Losing both at the same time AND not ascending to the surface, indicates it was an implosion." Not much to argue there, James was 100% right, and he said, he knew it!
James is Experienced in deep submersions design. So i think james knows more about this topic than this guy
right.. odd how the 96 hrs went by before the rest of the viewing public got to know what they knew 2 hrs into the dive. I call milking by the media on this one.
Not only that but U.S. Navy acoustic sensors detected the likely implosion of the Titan submersible hours after the vessel began its fatal descent on Sunday. Carbon Fibre is good for Aeronautics and Scuba tanks which require pressure to be kept INSIDE. It is not good for the reverse. Rush also drove the sub using a gaming controller known to frequently disconnect. In short he had the wrong personnel, bad design, crap extras and he didn't get it certified as safe. All their Death Waivers will be null and void because of that.
@@regularstan6212 🤣🤣🤣
@@TheKira699 submersible instapot
Considering the viewport was one of two main suspected failure points, I don't think they'd be tampering with it at all by removing anything.
I would not think so either but I can not be definitive.
That's seems very true. But the fact that it's missing is... problematic. Was it the primary failure, or was the sudden implosion and the shock wave somehow cause it to come out. As pointed out, exact layout/ position where things landed will be very important in analyzing this tragedy.
There were no bolts on any exposed area of that front hemisphere even along the outer ring. I am wondering if all the bolts were blown out.
You are probably correct. If it was still in place, they probably wouldn't have removed it. but we don't know at this point. Hopefully they found it. I'm thinking it could have just been a plug held in by water pressure on it and o-ring seals.
Accident investigators don't bash pieces of wreckage together to make them easier to recover by sling. That porthole was heavy, conical and solidly seated and it exited the submersible at the speed of sound
6:25 Cameron said that they lost comms and their transponder at the same time. Losing comms is not unheard of and by itself isn't indicative of a catastrophic issue, but the transponder (being a separate unit outside of the pressure vessel) also cut out at the exact same time, which is what led him to the strong suspicion that the sub was lost. Combined with a 3rd piece of data (the Navy had heard a loud bang in around that area at the same time that the sub lost comms / transponder) and it was almost a 100% certainty.
I think the point he was making was that the comms and transponder were acting through one single antenna
they heard the implosion on the vessel above too... they knew they fucked up and wanted a few days to get their stories straight.
@@snixal That's what I got from it. It wouldn't be unusual to lose both if something happened to their antenna system.
@@kasuraga if the recent leaked unconfirmed transcript reveals to be genuine, then the gradual intense pressure on the Titan likely started to affect the batteries in the rear equipment bay. (two segments of comms reported crackling in at AFT)
We know that they had issues with the batteries as well with BUS A way before June 18th (Rush did tell passengers to sleep after a battery issue on one dive while ascending) and that the transcript (still not confirmed) shows they were transferring to BUS B (Backups) just around the time of lost contact between 9-45 to 9-47 am.Still, have to see if officials will release the credible records.
@@SolidAvenger1290 Yep! That transcript is quite eery, isn't it. Seems very genuine to me (as well as many experts) and all the timing certainly lines up, as well as the formatting looking just like previous texts. There are a few who don't agree, but time will tell. Also, appears as though they had reason to surface much earlier when top asked them about their velocity. Don't tell me Rush (and PH who was piloting) weren't aware of their too rapid descent?
As someone with absolutely no background in engineering or physics I've learned more about submersibles this fortnight than I ever learned in 37 years thanks to channels like yours. Much obliged! ❤ It amazes me that there are people out there willing to risk people's lives (even their own) just to brag that they know better than marine engineers etc, breathtaking arrogance. I hope that this disaster is a lesson to these know-it-alls; you don't play with nature, you respect it. Same with science. I've never been more grateful for the professionals who take their roles seriously and adhere to the many strict guidelines just to bring us new information about exciting finds on and around our planet, I know that there was a concern that this sector would be tarnished by Stockton's wrecklessness but it seems clear to me that everyone tried to point him in the right direction. He was just looking for infamy and, unfortunately, he got it.
everyday, more things remind me of human hubris as described in the Jurassic park book
Exactly how I’m seeing it. I have too much common sense to throw all caution to the wind. To put this in perspective, this thing was a prototype. Something for test pilots, and the designers should have been developing tests and embracing the engineering community on ideas. Not appropriate for the general public.
If you like podcasts and want to know more about the maniac who killed those people and himself, I recommend 'Behind the Bastards'. They did a two-parter on him.
@@debistanley2791👍👍👍
Rush was a typical user of the consumerist way of life, where money is prioritized over human life. Hopefully it will be a warning to others.
I'm going to mention something that I saw that probably scared me more than anything else considering where this thing was going. It was the video showing the epoxy being applied to the titanium ring and then the ring being set down onto the carbon fiber hull section.
I'm a machinist, welder and fabricator and worked for GE aviation in Wilmington North Carolina for several years. I fully understand the necessity for testing. Seeing what they did literally scares the hell out of me. In my mind the joint between the titanium ring and the carbon fiber hull where the pressure, temperature and cyclic forces are acting on two dissimilar materials plus the epoxy they used to hold everything together would cause me the greatest concern.
I'm absolutely no expert either but with everything I've seen and heard I'm going to say that's where the failure occurred.
Seems reasonable, the only reason I wouldn't worry about that section as much is because the pressure forces the cap into the carbon fiber hull which would seal better with greater depth. But I can't pretend I fully understand how that connection would really work at depth.
I get the saddest thinking about this 19 year old kid. And sadness for the loss for his family! May they all rest in peace! Thank you for explaining all of this for us,! Great video!
I totally agree with you too. I feel bad for the nineteen-year-old kid that was on there because he was terrified to go because he just felt something would happen maybe it was a premonition he was having. But he lost his life because he was trying to make his dad happy. The rest of them have lived their lives. They were older. And this nineteen-year-old kid was just starting his life and yet so much to look forward to he was in college she had plans and dreams. Because he was trying to make one person happy at all ended. If anything good comes out of this I hope that this is a lesson and they don't allow any more of these submersibles to go under to see the Titanic unless they go through strategic testing at that depth of water. Honestly I don't know who would go any longer after what happened to those five people I would be terrified to even go.. no matter how much money they paid me I still would not go
@@nicoletrandel2966 this has been allegedly been debunked by his sister
@@SatanKarma1 even if he was totally excited to go, it's still very sad. I know for myself that at 19 I believed I was immortal, and would not have been capable of making a truly informed decision. ☹️
@@Ephemeral2023
Ok, this is a new twist. Never heard of a sister before now.
@@Ephemeral2023
Thanks for straightening that out the sister/aunt for me.
In regard to the conflicting reports
I think that in this case, two things can be right. He expressed fear to his aunt, but perhaps he was putting on a brave front for both parents.
In any case, I feel so bad for him, still just a kid ...
It was the loss of two electronics / communication systems that led Cameron to write an email the day after the sub was lost. He and other industry experts all arrived at the same guess.
@tdyr170 leave my chemtrails alone pal!
Psyop? To what end or purpose?
Go back to a "false flag mass shooting!" video.
I love channels like this, where the expertise level is top notch. I would probably have never found it, if it wasn't for this Titan tragedy. I'm glad channels like this can come to the surface because of this (pun not intended) because this is gold. ☺️
Except that he doesn't understand the concept of revolutionay
I don't think the porthole would have been removed for lifting the end cap. The integrity of the porthole and it's seal would form an important part of the investigation
Exactly it’s like a crime scene at this point
It was blown in or out at the point of collapse... I highly doubt it failed first because it's smaller and thicker than the carbon fiber hull,
The hull being over 2 or 3 metres long without a support beam or pillar through the middle is the weak point.
The center would have collapsed first blowing the ends off, the implosion created an explosion and I'm willing to bet that blew out the portal...
"Physics experts take on it"
@@Yukanhayt-Mhenow If the window went first, the pressure hull would have flooded with seawater and there would be no longer be any differential stress on the cylindrical section of the pressure hull to cause it to implode. Since the present evidence seems to be that the cylinder did implode, the window must have been substantially water-tight.
@TyaxComp Bolted. The porthole was _bolted_ in. Bolts can be removed--just need the right size socket and a wrench--so it's pretty easy. The dome it was mounted in, now...if memory serves, that was glued to the ring, which was itself glued to the carbon fiber. I could be wrong on some of that, though. Still, since it was bolted in, if they _did_ have to remove it to facilitate the crane lift, there will (or ought to be, anyway) a record of the condition of the porthole when it was found prior to that removal. Images, descriptions, that sort of thing.
It'll be interesting to learn the condition of that porthole either way, though. Given carbon fiber's tendency to shatter like glass when it fails, there probably isn't much of that left that would tell us much of anything--it's probably in such small bits and scattered over such a large area it'll be almost impossible to get anything worthwhile. If there's any left in the epoxy from the mounting rings, though, that could tell us something. Other than that, it'll be the condition of the surrounding components that'll tell us the important stuff.
@@nightrunnerxm393 yes the glass/plexiglass was bolted with a metal ring on the front of the titanium half sphere..the half sphere or hemishpere/dome access/door is then bolted to the ring the ring was glued to the carbon fiber tube my hunch is that's where it failed the glue/joint upon implosion the plexiglass dome got blown off by the incoming pressure.
Having looked into DSVs in the wake of the tragedy it's insane to me that they would make two massive departures from convention for one sub that they had slated for tourism. Using a radical new material AND a new architecture. Either one would have warranted extensive testing on a pilot vehicle, to have both on a single vessel for use by the public is insane. Like designing a new aircraft to have a saucer shape AND then building it out of plastic.
I didn't get "vaccinated" for some of these reasons. It turned out at 80 I never got sick once in over 3 years. People could have chosen not to get in the thing. With most products, we really don't know how they are made. Product recalls are common place.
Same needs to be applied to these space crafts - the amazon blue dildo, the virgin galactic - one screw up and they do a 180 and fire into a city like a bomb
@benjaminmatheny6683
Sorry, not trying to be rude, I would agree that putting too many innovations into a single design is risky at best, but, what was the radical new material and what was the radical architecture change?
I mean I'm guessing you mean carbon fiber. Except we've had carbon fiber since the sixties, if a material becomes eligible for retirement I don't think I'd call it new or radical. How many more decades would be needed before submarine testing might be considered reasonable?
I have no idea on the architecture thing. I mean, like, we've been making submarines that shape since the Hunley in 1863.
Submersibles that are designed to dive to those extreme depths have pressure hulls that are spheres because they handle the pressure better.
Submarines like the what the Navy uses aren't designed to go to those extreme depths so they're not spheres.
The shape of the Titan's hull also played apart in the implosion because it's not suitable for those extreme depths.
@@JoeLinux2000agreed sir
9:15 New leaked transcript (still unconfirmed) says they had ballast problems that they ignored until they were almost all the way down and it started crackling and giving failure warnings, and confirm they dropped the frame attempting to go back up. Love how you figured this out from the pictures.
The landing gear not folding could be as simple as the connections to the submersible were weaker and failed first. On certain engineering designs, it's common to design in a weak point to prevent a main structural member from becoming damaged.
I believe the landing gear was designed to be quickly detached from the hull in case rapid ascent was necessary, but I'm not sure.
And yes, since the landing gear is not really susceptible to pressure, not really necessary to be super strength anchoring points.
You’re talking about a guy that built a glorified Homer bucket to dive two and a half miles into the ocean. He wasn’t even slightly concerned about failsafes or pretty much anything like that.
Sal has quickly become to shipping what Blancolirio is to aviation. Kudos on excellent content delivery.
yes i agree
Yeah, that's a shame.
You are so wrong.
I've lost all respect for Blanco. He appears to have become a social media influencer secretly paid by the government. Better to follow Dan Gryder, he's more interested in the truth, and less interested in self promotion. Sal's reporting continues to have integrity. This report in particular is very well done.
@@JoeLinux2000 All I know is that Juan has a tendency to be too emotional, and not the clearest thinker or communicator.
Sal, as always, you presented objective factual information. That is so rare in this day.
Your channel beats all of the others in reporting marine events.
I think it’s super interesting you discussed the landing frame being in good condition and possible reasons behind that because there is an alleged and unconfirmed transcript of the supposed communication between the sub and it’s boat circulating that talks about needing to jettison the frame to ascend🤔
As an investigator I can say with a high degree of confidence that no reasonable investigative body would remove that viewport at this stage. IF removal was absolutely required to move the item the entire piece would have been extensively documented in situ before removal as would be every step of the removal process.
As we have building codes. Someone should have stopped the insanity of using a fiberglass substitute for deep water high pressure. Where were all of the smart engineers. Only person to mention anything was James Cameron? Come on people. I dont have a college education but understand using something designed for racing as a deep water taxi where lives are at steak is lunacy. So sad people died as a result of zero oversight.
100% agree. If they were able to retrieve the Aft pressure dome that does not have a view port, then they could have done the same with the Bow dome with the view port intact. I suspect the view port was blown out.
@@kevincrisman6565It was almost certainly blown out or even shattered by the force of the implosion. The only thing that’s really going to survive that is metal, because it’s malleable under those pressures (unless it’s brittle, which metal used in submersibles wouldn’t be). Acrylic isn’t though.
That's what I was thinking. I believe they would want to bring every piece up undisturbed for the investigation.
Plus they had straps for all the other parts without needing a hole to lope through
I thought I had seen another recovery picture where the glass was intact. Maybe I'm mistaken, but when I saw that picture I said to myself well the portal is still intact . . . I was also quite shocked by the fact that the rear pressure dome was not attached to that ring. How the heck could that be?
My 2 cents theory is a partial loss of integrity of the carbon fiber tube and/or a separation at the junction of the tube and the titanium ring. This resulted in a sudden rush of water, causing a water hammer effect that blew both end caps, the porthole, and everything inside away from the center of the implosion.
I was thinking an air leak at the seal and the loss of air pressure couldn't push back against the water pressure, leading to the collapse of the carbon fiber portion. Then the end caps may have just fallen down separately once the tube was destroyed. When you suck the air out of a plastic water bottle, the atmosphere crushes it so it could be the same concept. With a brittle hull, it probably shattered after it squished inward.
According to the transcript, the failure was at the rear of the vessel, so a shock wave blowing out the porthole from the inside is pretty likely... there was a bolted-on ring on the outer edge of the porthole, and that too has been cleanly popped off. The landing frame was dropped as part of their attempt to get back to the surface, pretty much at the lowest point of the descent; I think the debris field is relatively compact, which is why they were able to collect so much of it.
Engineers who know what they're doing use carbon fiber composites in tension: a _pressurized_ carbon vessel is extremely strong. The 787 is an example, and SpaceX uses carbon pressure vessels in the Falcon 9 rocket. Have a look at expensive sports car wrecks to see how carbon fiber behaves under compression. (Short answer: not well.)
Genuine question, im not educated on this at all. Why arent submersibles pressurized rather than withstanding the outside pressure? Is it because human bodies can't handle above a certain amount of air pressure? And if so, what is that limit? I know that they would need to depressurize VERY slowly, and that divers are told to exhale the entire time they are rising and it's said it's extremely weird because you're basically able to exhale (without stopping) like 30x one lung because of how compressed it is, and that the limit is probably related to gasses dissolved in blood uncompressing and causing a bubble blocking blood flow, but don't know the specifics so anything you can tell me would be very interesting.
@@tricursor2481humans cannot survive in thoses pressures, no. That is exacly why we use submarines.
This submarine completely disregarded all regulations.
-it was the only deep sea diver that was not certified
-it is the only submarine to have ever imploded
-its porthole was rated by the manufacturer for mo more than 1300 feet, thats not even half the depth the vessel was used at
-it used glue, something no other submarine at thoses depths used. They all bolt it except this one
-it used carbon fiber for the hull, which is not as resilient to compression. All other deep divers always used steel or titanium
-its carbon fiber was not even layed in a grid. They were all paralel, just wrapped around. Thats literally the weakest way to make a carbon fiber hull.
-it used titanium caps with a carbon fiber center hull, mixing materials means different rates of compression, temperature affects it differently in how it shrinks and all, which doesnt help. All other deep divers use a single material
-it was cylindrical. Other divers of that depth have a spherical pressure hull, which is much stronger than cylindrical.
-its only control was a cheap wireless game controller you can buy off amazing. Literally one of the cheapest and least reliable controllers. Wireless, using batteries, that adds alot of failure points. All critical controls should be hardwired to the vessel, not wireless. That controller specially even got tons of complaints from gamers about it randomly disconnecting.
Its controls are literally hooked to a modern windows version, I think it was w10. Thats also very bad. Windows10 is not a reliable thing you put people’s life on. What if it has a blue screen? Putting the controls on a full consumer OS inside the submarine is stupid. A simple system is much more reliable.
-it did not even have a hatch that can be opened from the inside. People were sealed in from the outside. That is also not standard practice.
Everything about it was shit
The guy who made it completely disregarded every safety practices that we have built over the last century of submarine design, and called that “innovation”
Disregarding every safety regulations is not innovation. Its just a way to win a darwin award.
Safety guidelines exist for a reason, and thoses who refuse to apply them will end up paying for it with blood.
With that CEO’s logic, You could literally make “a car with no brakes because its cheaper, and use the argument that you can stop by heading uphill and call that innovation”
This IS what I mean, the dude doing this video is WOEFULLY UNINFORMED! He dude, OG isn't looking for a new sucker, er mission specialist.....
the transcript is unverified and might be 100% fake. we'll probably only really know once the investigation findings are released
@@tricursor2481 Human body can withstand surprisingly high pressures. Pre-dive pressurization is used as a technique to make diver's body to adapt to the environment (see saturation diving). Divers can go to depths of more than half a kilometer this way (50+ times atmospheric pressure). Habitats with inner pressure matching the outer pressure are used for that.
Of course Titanic is quite a bit deeper so the pressure would be non-survivable, but good point anyways.
Cameron's conclusion (on Monday morning after Father's Day) that this was an implosion was also based on the fact that the US has very sophisticated sonar and hydrophones in this area. Hydrophones detected a "bang" around the same time communication was lost with the sub. This isn't hard to put together. You make it sound as if Cameron just based his thoughts on a loss of communication.
Exactly. I saw an interview with Cameron where he explained the 2 components - the bang the hydrophones caught + loss of communications at same time - which led him to conclude it was an implosion.
@@Barbarosa1234 Yes, and there was a third factor, too, Cameron said -- the loss of the transponder at the same time.
James C. also had the inside info that Stockboy had DROPPED the weights AND the landing frame and had ABORTED the dive and was DESPERATELY trying to ASCEND but to NO avail. It was while attempting to run a "diagnostic" on why the Titan seemed to have been OVER WEIGHT and NOT ascending at an ALARMING RATE. In FACT those on the PP kept ASKING the Titan to GIVE them the velocity of the ascension but Stockboy or PH couldn't respond bc they were ALL DEAD!
I’ll say this , this guy knows his stuff! I could listen to him talk about pretty much anything, the way things are explained. Great content.
One more correction. The radio and its antenna would only work on the surface. All communication once submerged was with an acoustic data modem.
The communication module was inside the sub, the location tracking was an independent module, outside of the main pressure chamber, so when both communication and tracking fail at the same time then you can guess something is really wrong
Outstanding presentation! Regarding the porthole window -- in 1972 I was at Ballast Point, San Diego and got a brief, up-close look at the Trieste II (DSV-1), and met with a CPO who was on the support staff. The Chief told me an interesting story about the Trieste's window. He said that the window (I think it was Plexiglas or some other acrylic) actually extruded into the control sphere during a dive. The window was made in the shape of a cone several inches across at the outside (or maybe a foot or more; it's been a long time!), but only a few inches in diameter at the inside of the hull. Thinking back, I don't know what the sealing mechanism was, but I've always assumed that it relied on the outside pressure and conical shape to effect a seal, since the plastic had to be able to move and distort under pressure.
James Cameron and a few other people have said that the submersible dropped its ballast weights in order to resurface right about the time they lost communication. I'm guessing the only way James Cameron could know this is if the surface vessel received data about the ballast being dropped before they lost communication. I'd like to see confirmation that the surface ship knew the submersible was attempting to resurface just before it lost communication -- and I'm curious why I've only heard that bit of information in a few places (Cameron being one of them).
Now this is PURE SPECULATION on my part, so take it for what it's worth. I think they normally carry excess ballast at the start of the dive so they are 'heavy'. This aids in the free-fall descent. They would then (by design) drop some of this ballast as they approach the sea floor so they are close to neutrally bouyant while they 'drive around' and explore. This may have been a routine messag they sent as the approached the sea floor, "dropping descent ballast". But after this, communication abruptly stopped when the catastrophy happened.
I would have thought that if they messaged intentions to immediately attempt to return to the surface, the support team would have made that known and they wouldn't have waited nine hours (the expected dive duration) before calling for help. (again, all of this is just speculation on my part)
@@mikefochtman7164 There's a lot we don't know about the operation of the craft. I'm not offended that they used old pipe as ballast.
They claimed that the ballast was attached by dissolving pieces, that it had a limited time frame until it would automatically detach. The intent was that if everyone on the sub was unconscious and unable to manually drop them, they would detach anyway and it would start to float back up, where it could be picked up at the surface.
If that's true (I mean, the lies the company told about its safety...), we could not know if it was still attached at the time of the implosion and if those pieces disolved later, or if they manually dropped them to rise back up.
Previous passengers said they heard cracking, but nothing was ever done and the CEO claimed that was "just a normal sound" so it's not like they'd hear that happening, panic and try to surface. The speed with which the implosion would happen would make it impossible for them to react, not like in a movie where a spout of water pops out and then another, then another, giving them time to panic.
@@LizRealGirlBeauty I think there was more than one group/ type of ballast. I also saw that some was attached by wires that were designed to dissolve in seawater to make it 'failsafe'. But they also mentioned that they could 'dump ballast' by tilting the craft to the side with the thrusters. I heard somewhere they had up to seven different ways to get back to the surface, so must have been a variety of 'ballast'.
The front porthole is designed to withstand external pressure. When the carbon fiber hull imploded there would have been a near instantaneous spike in internal pressure, most likely popping out the porthole from the inside out
yup flew like a bullet as the pressure speed was mach 2...twice the speed of sound totalling 1.5 million pounds of pressure around the vessel
I think that is exactly what happened. Carbon fiber shattered instantly and the nose simply separated
Exactly.
@@user-qo7cu3uk8v😮
I can’t see that. The pressure on the end caps would simply be equalised by an implosion.
I think it's amazing that they found everything so quickly. Kudos to them.
The Navy told them the sub was gone 10 minutes after it happened . the media dragged it out for days knowing they where dead.
They found it so quickly as the experienced deep sea submariners knew exactly where to send the deep sea submersibles to look.
@@dalegillispie8436 the Navy are the deepest part of the deep state. They said whatever trump told them to say.
Thank you, Sal, for a great report on what we can deduce so far in this tragic event. I respect your reluctance to show supposed reconstruction videos, they are untrue and not authentic, there were no cameras that recorded this event. You speak with a lot of common sense, knowing what we have so far and without drama and without lies and knowing ship construction and design aspects that laymen do not understand. Thank you for being sensible.
I don't think there is any way they removed the porthole for lifting. A myriad of other ways they could have rigged that load. I would be stunned if they destroyed evidence like that.
Most likely popped out.
Agreed, lots of ways to sling that cap up, it even looks like there's a lift point towards the bottom of it in the photo.
Yeah. And , even if t hat one part was in one piece I would imagine that shape would be hard to recover?
That does not destroy evidence and it may have been necessary to preserve it.
The porthole window failed in some way or another or it’d still be attached.
Just a couple of things:
1. That antenna is labeled "Iridium", which is a satellite system operating in the Gigahertz range, and is totally useless underwater.
2. The low frequency communication system you reference can't be radio (the transmitting antenna would be far too large), so what we're thing about here is an underwater telephone, sometimes called a Gertrude, if memory serves. (Last time I was on a sub was in the early 80s, so...).
Now we get to Cameron's point.
The voice comms are a fancy sort of sonar, fitted inside the hull.
The positioning system is ALSO a sonar type of gadget, housed outside the hull in it's own little pressure "hull".
Now, for both of those to fail simultaneously the main hull has to implode and damage the positioning system bad enough for it to fail too.
Anyway, that's my takeaway from my own knowledge of subs in general and Mr. Cameron's comments about those two systems.
Hope that helps a little, and keep up the good work.
Agree. I think Cameron's point was that there were two INDEPENDENT systems, and to lose both signals at the same time means something catestrophic happened. You might lose one (as they had in the past), but to lose both is very ominous.
You are correct on all data points. Gertrude is also known as UQC or Underwater Telephone.
@@PaulLoveless-Cincinnati
Thanks!
Those caps were bolted to the rings, which were glued to the carbon fiber shell. No surprise that the rings separated from the shell. But I am surprised that the rings were separated from the caps. That speaks to the destructive forces involved. Somehow, those bolts got blown apart as the structure was imploding.
@@craigpawlisch8628
Excellent observation. I'd like to see both sides of the rings, just to see if there's any adhesive residue.
James Cameron said that he concluded an implosion based on the fact that the sub lost communication AND tracking which sounds reasonable. He didn't base it on the fact that they lost communication alone like you said.
Thanks, I just made the same point on another thread.
Thanks for producing this, very informative. James Cameron said that when he heard they lost comms AND tracking he knew something was up because the tracking was independent of the comms facility and had its own power supply.
Something that I haven't seen anyone mention is the difference in contraction (shrinkage) of titanium at those temperatures and pressures vs. carbon fiber under the same conditions.
That s been mentioned dozens of times
Notice how the titanium rings are just bare metal. They were glued to the carbon fiber pressure vessel but it looks like they completely separated with no fragments still bonded to them.
Since they were designed to be under compression, there was no need to solidly bond them. The water pressure itself would've pressed the titanium hemisphere into the ring, pressing it onto the CF pressure vessel. As long as the adhesive was strong enough to prevent it from falling off when out of the water, it was strong enough.
We took advantage of the same thing with glass pressure spheres used to house electronics at depth. The two hemispheres are simply placed on top of each other, and taped together with butyl and electrical tape. The binding effect of the tape is negligible (just enough to hold it in place when out of the water). At depth, due to the pressure pushing the two hemispheres together, the friction force is enough to withstand tens or over a hundred tons of sideways force trying to slide one hemisphere off of the other.
@@solandri69very interesting!
This is the level of Analysis that should have gone into the Submarine prior to launch. Thank you for sharing more insight on this
Great informative video. The graphics showing which parts of the sub the different bits of wreckage came from were really helpful, and your explanations were very easy to understand for someone who barely knew anything about submersibles or implosions before this incident.
As a woman with no technical engineering degree but an interest in engineering I was surprised from the start that they used epoxy, glue and carbon. I know it can shatter, I heard that from some people with bike frames and also it is strong when pressure comes from the inside but a lot less in the way it was used here, from the outside. The shape was a surprise for me, a tube shape and also the connection with glue connecting two different materials that each have their own way of reacting to pressure and temperature. If I can come up with this why did they do it? Did none of the other engineers say, maybe not a good idea. Guess they were young and inexperienced to deal with a boss like that. Fifty year old veteran engineers would have probably spoken up a little bit more.
Fifty year old veteran engineers would have been laid off or fired many moons ago by this CEO/clown.
You are correct carbon fiber is strong in tension, holding interior pressure in, but weak in compression, keeping outside pressure from getting in. Absolute wrong choice for this application. Also, it gets weaker as it’s repeatedly stressed. And the gluing of the end caps was absurd. I agree, how could any competent engineer sign off on this? Really makes you wonder.
Correct, it’s exactly why in bike applications for example, it’s crucial that carbon fiber fork steerer tubes have an inside bung to resist the compressing forces created by the clamped stem.
I was offended when i heard the CEO dismiss 50+ year old White guys as not inspiring.
Soon after hearing him explain that, an epitaph came to mind; something like "He may have expired, but at least he inspired".
I am surprised that anyone who was Involved with designing this Carbon fibre "tube" did not see that it was constructed wrong in the laying of the fibre that it was a weak point? If these ""engineers" were qualified, surely they should have layered the fibre in a criss cross pattern? The mind boggles.
Thanks Sal. I think I can speak for all of us when I say we appreciate your intelligent and dispassionate assessment and analysis.
THANK YOU for handling it very gently and professionally without panicking and making assertove claims!
It really gets in my crawl how the media hears "possible human remains" and just goes bonkers over reporting and sensationalizes it. All while offering little or no context except to stoke people's morbid curiosities. Thanks for addressing this.
40+ pounds of TNT in terms of energy released. There is thankfully nothing to look at for the news outlets to feed off of. Because you are right - they certainly would if it meant one more viewer.
So are they not supposed to report that remains were found??
@@bobbygetsbanned6049 Read what I said again.
Regarding human remains: explosions and implosions and other extreme events can't make matter disappear, they only mix it around. If somebody (or some thing) disappears in an explosion, it just means they was so finely atomized that you can't easily identify parts of them. Any human remains they find are likely just going to be strips of muscle or fat or skin or maybe some bone fragments.
Teeth
It doesn't really matter where the remains are or what state they're in. It's liquified biological material that's floating in the ocean, whatever hasn't been consumed by wildlife is a needle in a literal ocean sized hay stack..
you guys *really* aren't understanding the energies involved here. Those people and their affects were as good as diesel fuel at the moment of the implosion. Their bodies reacted with the compressed, superheated air, they are nothing but CO2 and water vapor now.
@@tissuepaper9962 That is exactly right.
There is no bodies to find. They were DUPED into getting into a soda can and died
So here I am... a new subscriber. I never thought I cared about shipping and these kinds of topics until I stumbled across this channel a couple months ago. I guess I do. Regardless of the topic, I find this channel to be a complete breath of fresh air. Thank you, sir, to take the time and produce these fascinating videos.
Thanks Billy!
@@wgowshipping Roll Tide, brother.
Thank you for sharing your personal experience. It’s human nature to be curious and inquisitive when tragedy strikes; Even when those who perished were complete strangers. It’s my opinion that you’ve exercised good judgement in editing this, and have shown compassion and respect for the lives lost. Compared to official press releases and news reports, this video provides a much clearer and softer window into what the the crew may have experienced in the days leading up to the unfortunate incident.
I now feel sorry for Stockton Rush and his legacy. I think he was a good man just misguided with his "hubris" All he needed was someone or people around him to save him from himself. He didn't have that unfortunately.
@rosean374 Many such people were around him. He rebuffed them all. He even fired one of them after he expressed safety concerns about the sub.
This has been the most helpful and easily understandable submersible content on the internet. Thank you for this video 🙏🏼
Yours was the most respectfull and thoughtfull video about this accident .I loved how you put it in very simple terms and made many explanations how this tragedy could happen without assuming or blaming anybody before we will know for sure what really happened . It shows respect and honesty and knowledge which say a lot about you ! Thank you !
I’ve been waiting for your take on the wreckage, Sal. Thanks for all you do.
More to come!
@@wgowshipping Let's hope the investigation is fully transparent. One thing I've learned is many eyes on an investigation is far better than a government agency that is promoting a political narrative. I have a lot or respect for you commentary at the moment. It's sticking to the facts that we can confirm, and is not full of unnecessary unfounded criticism about a lack of concern for safety by Oceangate.
The porthole window could have just popped off when the water hit it from the wrong direction or perhaps because of the rapid contraction and expansion cycles of the gas bubble.
Scott Manley calculated the energy involved in the implosion must have been equal to like 10 kg of TNT per each cubic meter of the internal volume in the sub. When the catastriphic failure of the hull occurred the people inside didn't even have time to become conscious of it. From their point of view, they just suddendly ceased to exist.
The hill collapsing could have blown out the port hole.
That window was only rated for 1300 meters too.
It was interesting to learn that in a previous lawsuit a former OceanGate employee did report that the porthole window was not rated for pressure at the depth of the Titanic wreck. While the carbon-fiber hull is suspected to have failed, it is still possible that the hull would have survived the dive and the porthole failed. The remains of the carbon-fiber possibly could provide evidence to determine that.
Thank you for this. And the commenters on this thread. I’m a person with zero qualification and knowledge in this area and I’ve learned a great deal from everyone’s contributions.
One thing that rang alarm bells for me was that the CEO flew to Vegas to personally encourage a father/son to go on the trip. Their price was going to be $110,000 each. Yet later the deceased passengers price was quoted at $250,000. It seems like he was schilling/strongarming people. Especially if they had doubts. It's like when you express interest in a product/servi ce and an aggressive salesman shows up at your door.
For a billionaire $250k is pocket change.
It's like, the price of a movie ticket for an average person for the next show.
@misarthim6538 I agree that these people had freewill. My impression was based on the event I mentioned. The CEO seemed a tad desperate to me to fill that spot. Also, just because people have millions of dollars doesn't mean they are the brightest crayon in t he box. If these people were adventure oriented and he had previous good trips then that may have been enough for them. Also sometimes very wealthy people have sycophants or yes men around them. They may have had influences that way or this CEO could gave become aware of such things and tailored his pitch accordingly.
@misarthim6538Rush was pressuring and hustling to get people to fill the spots. Too many people knew it was dodgy. One guy was interested in going, but after experiencing Rush hustling, he thought something was off, did more due diligence, and refused to go.
The father/son camealong after..And got caught up in trusting Rush, instead of the father being more cautious.
@misarthim6538 What do you mean "with the exception of the kid"? First, the man you're calling a "kid" was 19 years old. Pretty much every legal system in the world says that a 19-year-old is competent to make their own decisions. Second, while there have been reports that he was pressured into going in the sub, the BBC quotes his mother as saying that he was excited about the trip and had brought a Rubik's cube with him because he wanted to set a world record for solving one at the greatest depth.
@misarthim6538 The fact that he was excited about it strongly suggests that he wasn't pressured...
I read somewhere that the kid among the occupants took a Rubik's cube with him. He wanted to be the first to solve it while at the Titanic. That item is no doubt still on the bottom and in pristine condition. It wouldn't be affected by pressure. Worthless trivia of the day.
A positive way of seeing this, is that this type of composite material has now been pressure tested and will never be used in similar ways again - potentially saving more lives.
This is the first time I've visited your channel, and I found your analysis not only interesting but very well laid out so thank you for your hard work.
Thanks and welcome
If you look carefully at the door the bolt is still there. That would indicate the glass was broken, not removed.
I think it's hard to do a proper investigation from these photos on your computer.
It's not glass.
@@damirregoc8111 yeah it’s acrylic I think
@@critterc0rner If I'm not mistaken, that was a reason why people were angry at the CEO cause he was using things that weren't meant to be used at that pressure
That's not a bolt. That's the grommet on the tarp
Great video!! First time watcher, here. Already liked/subscribed. My mom worked in Maritime law. People are making so many assumptions about what happened with hardly any factual evidence on which to base it. You, however, are spot on. It'll be quite some time before we, the public, are privy to the actual cause of this event. We can discuss and theorize, but until a full report is released, we won't know what truly occurred or why. I really enjoyed this. You gave several educated possibilities, but never claimed to "know for sure" as so many others are doing in their videos. Again, great video. I really enjoyed how it was presented. Thanks!! 👍👍
I'd love to see the photo's from the actual sea floor to see how it all landed or came to rest.
I just remember going to the bottom of a 12ft pool and feeling that pressure I can’t even imagine what a mile down would be like
And it's 2 and a half miles down.....
The fact that they found so much of the outer body so fast suggests the debris field is small and this implosion happened close to the bottom. No fragments of carbon fiber are visible on the rings suggesting a clean separation. I'm sure the final report will confirm or conflict these details.
The thinking might have been that the outside pressure would hold the rings in place, and the glue was just a leak sealant. I would like to know if there was any sign of a leak.
if CF is not rated for depths the more the glue used. my hunch is thats what failed especially in the joint the weakest point in the contstruction...of course the CF shattered as expected.
Wasn't am implosion, the sub broke apart and they drowned. What have we been hearing this whole time? The ocean is unforgiving, it's unforgiving at those depths, mother nature is unforgiving.. unforgiving unforgiving unforgiving unforgiving. So somehow the ocean forgave this sub 10+times and at farther depths on previous trips???
@@johnsmith-zh1iv broke apart under water is called implosion broke apart in the athmosphere is explosion. according to one report they calculated its 1.5 million tons of pressure on the hull of the vessel...yeah it broke by implosion.
I agree. They likely could not stop the freefall due to the time it would take and the speed of the dive and the currents. This would be the worst case for the crew.
This was absolutely fascinating. The only thing I would say is that James Cameron didn’t say that he knew it had imploded due to the loss of communications. His reasoning was that he was told they had lost both communications and tracking at the same time which were both separately housed on opposite ends of the vessel. No idea if this makes any difference whatsoever but would be interested in your response
Beyond being brilliant, I was thinking people forget how incredibly brave James Cameron is, because when you strip it all down... HE still has to get in that Sub and take the risk of keep going down, and down, and down, until it reaches the bottom of the sea floor. That is incredibly courageous beyond comprehension.
He put his life on the line and had to trust his engineering.
He also had the benefit of knowing a loud noise had been detected by the "microphones" buried on the ocean floor at about the same time communications were lost. No doubt he has contacts privy to that kind of info. He stated in one interview, after wreckage was found, he was so sure on Monday that catastrophic event had occurred that he told his closest colleagues to raise a glass to their friends (the 2 true experts) that had been lost. He also noted that in interviews he had not voiced this belief out of respect for the families. Admirable.
@@user-lr6nj4rm5k exactly this
Fortunately, and sometimes unfortunately, every person is entitled to an opinion.
This was a really well out together video sir, please keep up the great work!
10:35 During one of the press events I recall the NAVSEA Salvage expert saying the debris pattern was pretty consolidated suggesting the event occurred not far off the bottom. Another great video Dr. Mercogliano.
Interesting because apparently they were still like 30 minutes away from when they should have reached the bottom.
My theory is that the middle of the pressure vessel failed, which blasted the front and rear in different directions, which would explain the two debris fields. In the implosion, the sudden compression inside (all that air is going to have to go somewhere, after all) would’ve blown the window out. I figure that the bolts holding that and the front dome in place were never rated to hold that much strain, as they were meant to hold things in place while external pressure acted on the structure. The water pressure is doing the bulk of the work holding things in place, while the bolts keep things located.
Exactly
The air doesn’t have to go anywhere. The pressure will cause it to be compressed to a fraction of a percent of it’s original volume. What will happen though is that the water rushing in at extreme speed will hit the water from the other side going in the other direction. I’m not sure what would happen next, but it would certainly include an expanding shock wave (this is what the US Navy listening station heard) which would blow out the window.
This is soooo educational, thank you. Explained the sub structure and especially why the parts brought up didn't look like I envisioned. Those parts were so concerning to me as to what the occupants suffered I worried what their families would think. Well done.
That was good info you had. Grizzly is about right. Heated to the temperature of the sun in a blink. Pressure cooked beyond. Unimaginable ending.
One thing I can see coming from this safety investigation. That it will be MANDATORY to have black boxes like they do on aircraft. One records control positions, one records crew voice recordings. Oh, and black boxes are fluorescent red for easy recovery and have their own locator beacons.
Wouldn't it just be DELIGHTFUL if the legacy of the "lul regulations r dum" guy who was killed in this incident ends up being stricter regulations?
There is no way this would happen if it’s in international Watters. That’s why he was out there.
I doubt that they have black boxes that would survive these pressures
Maybe not red. Red light does not penetrate that deep in the water. Neon green would probably be better. It would glow when a light shined on it.
@@mrpurcountry Sure they do. The box doesn't have to be in the riskiest place that would experience _sudden pressure changes_ but mounted outside like all the electronics seen here recovered largely intact. Only the wires for the crew voice recorder microphone etc. would lead inside, with the data stored external to the pressure hull. Black boxes have been recovered from the seabed after airliner crashes so it's not the pressure that is the issue; it's the sudden application of energy via a quick change of pressure that would be a problem.
Titan was the equivalent of taking a toilet paper tube gluing titanium caps on the ends of it with a window rated for 1300 meters. Rush was a real rocket scientist ! Loved his ego !
A Coyote design would have been safer😮
I like the cautionary approach you taking to analyze this event. I think it's very wise; no doubt the evidence once it is all collated will give a good handle on the sequence of events. In any case, detailed fault analysis is just the way to go.
Good analysis. One thing you missed is the fact that the carbon fiber cylinder had to be affixed to the titanium ring somehow. Most likely it was epoxied, but there are other methods. This presents a huge potential for delaminating of the different materials due to differing thermal coefficients. Over time it’s likely that these two materials worked themselves apart on a microscopic level causing a very small but very serious potential for adhesive deterioration.
Once that breech occurred even a small leak would cause catastrophic material failure of the carbon fiber. A pinhole leak would rip carbons fiber apart so rapidly it would appear that only the carbon fiber failed, when in fact it was failure of whatever adhesive was used.
Either way, this design was abhorrent and short-sighted. It’s really amazing to see how many other engineers recognized this prior to the failure and equally amazing that they were ignored.
The outside shell is called a fairing. It's added for streamlining, and to protect the pressure vessel from minor knocks and dings.
And for aesthetics :)
why would something that moves no faster than 3 mph need to be streamlined?
And it made the Titan sexy.
Superstructure
@@buckmurdock2500if it weren't streamline, then it would move even slower. Also, more drag means more energy expended to move the craft.
I expect that the porthole failed outward as secondary even if it was not the actual primary failure point.
Part of how it is designed is pressure sealed from outside so a catastrophic failure / implosion should damage that seal.
Having the end rings and the porthole will help identify which of the three obvious failure points may have been cause ( delamination / epoxy / porthole )
The piece of the outer shell you showed at 7:05 is interesting, if you look at where it's damaged, it seems like the implosion started at the rear of the sub, probably on the right hand side, the void created when the hull collapsed would've resulted in the water pushing it's way through the gaps in the shell, with the highest pressures around the site where the failure started, that shell is made of titanium, and for water to shear it like that requires pressures beyond your wildest dreams
My prediction is the hull gave out at the interface point where the ring connected to the pressure hull, likely on the right hand side (I'm assuming the square cutout is for the antenna?)
If you look at the leaked transcripts (text messages sent between the sub and the support ship) there was audible crackling sounds coming from the rear of the sub, and the realtime hull health monitor lit up red on all sensors, the sounds subsided for a while when they started the emergency ascent, which involved dropping ballast and detaching the landing skids
Communications were lost after the sub started having electrical problems, according to the transcript, electrical bus A was lost, and the crackling sounds intensified, then there were no more replies (possible that the sub imploded while he was still typing, but I don't know)
The fact that they recovered the electronics bay is hopeful, they may be able to analyze the data on the computers to see what the hull health monitor was doing, and possibly even get some notes that may have been typed, or if we're extra lucky, the electronics bay stayed sealed and the computer stayed powered up and hibernated itself when the battery power ran out (which would preserve a snapshot of everything that was onscreen at the time until the next boot up)
To quote Scott Manly: "In an implosion like this we are no longer biology, but physics." Some people calculated that the implosion had the energy equivalent of around 4.7 kilos of TNT within that very small space. I would be very much surprised if there are any human remains that could be identified as such.
I guess we watched the same video 😊
50 kilos not 4.7.
I'm hearing that a lot but why wouldn't that also apply to the submarine vessel itself? From the pictures it doesn't seem blown to smithereens...
@@jackg9006 because human beings are not made from carbon fiber and titanium where flesh very easily destroyed flesh it's a lot harder to disintegrate titanium and carbon fiber also you have to consider that the outside of the pressure hole was surrounded by water which would have helped to cool the external parts preserving them from the internal temperature do you know that there are jets flying at 40,000 ft that have caught fire and internally had a fire inside the jet but because the air outside was moving so fast and it's so cold at that attitude that it didn't externally cooled the outside of the aluminum so that the outside of the aluminum did not melt from the internal fire inside the plain however if you are within that pressure hall Dean of organic material you have no such protection so you're going to be vaporized
@@jackg9006also I know this is hard for people to understand but this entire destruction process happened in a millisecond which is one millionth of a second second so it happened very fast and yes the air pocket inside the pressure Hall was heated to the temperature of the Sun but that was over within a billionth of a second so that would have been long enough to incinerate flesh and any organic matter inside but not long enough to actually incinerate titanium and carbon fiber
Minor correction. The sub uses an acoustic modem for underwater communication, not a low frequency radio. On the surface, it has an Irridium connection.
Minor correction? If this guy doesn't know you cannot communicate with radio under water he has no business of making videos like this.
Not minor, an important point.
@@paulforgac1187- Rest assured, you won’t find a more knowledgeable expert on this topic.
@willyberg123VLF radio can only penetrate salt water for like 20-30 meters. Navy submarines use wired radio buoys to communicate, shooting them (wired) to the surface. The Titan didn’t have this feature. Extreme Low Frequency (ELF) can penetrate water for a couple of hundred meters, however this is technically extremely difficult and very unpractical, especially for a sub as small (and cheap) as the Titan. In contrast to radio waves the acoustic modem is a very viable way to communicate wirelessly with subs. But almost all unmanned submersibles are tethered and use glass fiber links to the surface vessel with far better bandwidth, which is needed for high resolution video to the surface controllers. You might find this Wikipedia article interesting: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communication_with_submarines In any case, whatever way of communication would have been chosen, it likely isn’t the root cause of this disaster nor would it have prevented it.
@willyberg123 Can you give us a reference for underwater radio?
One of the main reasons why James Cameron knew it had been imploded was because he had been informed about the implosion event by people he knew with his network of contacts within the Navy which had detected the event through the SOSOS sensor network which placed it right at the same spot. From what I understand they weren't able to find the port window anywhere in the debris zone.
Video (and chat) very helpful to understanding dynamics involved. Many thanks
James had inside scoop on the incident. He knew that the coast guard or military had heard a loud sound with their sonar around the same time that they lost contact with the sub.
The film maker only revealed this after it became public that the NAVY had found a sound on Sunday. Remember that Coast Guard wasn't advised of accident until Sunday evening. The NAVY at one point would have been called to look at their recordings for that area to see if they didn't find anything unusual. That takes time to do and they eventually did find a sound consistent with implosion. They would then have to ensure it was within the area and not a sound that happens regulalry. This is the first time an implosion happens in a manned submersivel since 1960, so there isn't a huge database of sounds the NAVY can match the sound to.
I believe Cameron had more information than we’ve been given, he’d been told that they were dropping weights, like they knew they were in trouble. That few moments before imploding would have been tough.
Ok I thought I heard or read something like that but when I tried looking for it again, I couldn’t find it.
@@sunkissed4ever399 ....ccCCRRAAaaakk
Do you have a source of where Cameron said that regarding dropping weights?
I'd like to hope the implosion/death was instant rather than any panic
@@5pr1nk57I think he said in an interview, if he had heard that, it would be insider info from someone on board the ship it launched from.
@@5pr1nk57 I heard him say it in an interview, too. You can poke around and find it.
You should analyze more ship tragedies like the Costa Concordia tragedy. These have been sooo interesting :)
Thank you for this presentation. Good overview/analysis of the situation that titan experienced and how the submersible may have imploded.
Very good analysis! A note about viewports in DSS vehicles: The 12 inch viewport on Titan is unprecedented in my experience. Previous DSS certified to similar depths have 5-6 inch viewports. The design of these viewports is a non-trivial engineering problem. The acrylic material and the titanium hull have very different elastic properties. As the vehicle goes deeper, what started at the surface to be a perfect cone deforms into a slightly different shape. So, the titanium seating surface must be machined to match the deformed portlight at depth. Of course the titanium deforms as well at depth but not nearly as much as the acrylic.
It would be interesting if that was the culprit and not the (now maligned) carbon hull. It seems that Ocean Gate was really pushing its luck.
@@nighttrain1236 Yeah that's one of the things we hopefully find out when the investigation is complete. The CEO claimed the view port would give them a warning before it failed by bowing inwards, but who trusts what he said at this point...
If you look around on TH-cam, you'll see reports on carbon fibre. the tube shape is great for a pressure hull when it is greater ~inside~, like a propellant tank or aircraft fuselage, but when the pressure is compressing it, it is garbage. And the vid noted that the vessel was not cross-wound, adding to the flaws in the carbon fibre section. It shattered... and they may only get small pieces still glued to the titanium rings.
The other titanium ring may still be bolted to the front porthole section, and the porthole probably got blown out when the hull collapsed. Why out? It was designed to take pressure from outside; when the hull collapsed, the inner pressure was pushed towards the endcaps, and the porthole lens was the weak point in the front end-cap.
@@WhiteWolf65he successfully accomplished 25 dives in a carbon pressure vessel. I’m not a fan of Rush’s hubris and dishonesty but an engineer should appreciate that carbon DID work repeatedly. Is it economical to retire a sub after just ~10 dives though?
@@WhiteWolf65 You are correct that filement wound pressure vessels need some degree of reinforcement in all directions. The internal pressure vessel fails in fiber tension which is pretty easy to accurately estimate mathematically. A external pressure vessel fails due to elastic instability (buckling) which is very hard to model. The external load failure is most sensitive to vessel out of roundness during fabrication.
From all the manbojambo and noise available today ref. the Titan, your explanation is probably the most well-informed, clear and concise. Thank you !
Cheers from San Diego ⛵
There is a lot of wild speculation and unfounded criticism such as using old pipe for ballast. If you go with the FBI and Hillary, there was "no intent" for Oceangate to want this catastrophe.
A long wait for closure well done sir very informative and respectful
I saw you on WWII TV a little while back. That was a great presentation. I've been subscribed here ever since. Cheers!
Thanks. Woody has a great channel. It was a fun talk. I just submitted that article for publication.
Many people do not understand how so many pieces of the vessel could be intact if the sub imploded. I describe it as a balloon (the pressure hull) wrapped in a net (the framework supporting the external components). The balloon pops due to compression force (hydrostatic pressure), while the netting falls down to the seabed due to gravity. Just my thoughts again. Love your channel!! Subbed and liked👍🏼
Good analogy. Actually they use specialized balloons inside of carbon fiber molds to push the CF into the mold and remain hollow inside.
I don’t know anything about submersibles, but as a pilot and aero
engineer, when I saw all of that electronic wreckage , my first thought was “ there is data in there, maybe a lot of data”. It will be interesting to see what the investigators can find if anything from the electronics.
You'd think anyway. There'd be some type of black box. If your gonna invest that much. Spend that much. I know people say he uses off the shelf stuff. But there had to of been some data either on the sub. Or transmitted to the surface right before it happened
@@jaymesnin They'd lost communications, so nothing was being transmitted to the surface. They were under no obligation to include "black box" data recorders, so they didn't do it. Yes, there is likely to be data in the electronics, but it will need to be forensically recovered.
most likely they'd have a go pro or something inside with them, from which maybe a micro sd card could be small enough to survive imploding
Best information to follow this accident, loving the videos even though I never cared about ocean topics before!
I used to work in the oilfields, and I have seen some tubing implode under the immense pressure of the casing when applying steam down well. It's like taking a straw and sucking all the air out of it but in a fraction of a second.
I am so disappointed that they didn't release photographs of this debris while it was on the seabed.
Same. And I thought they were going to leave the submersible wreckage down there.
Not sure how this came onto my recommendations, but thank you for the clear explanations. Very educational.
Thanks for watching!
Thanks for all you do for everyone 💯
Thank you for your excellent documentary. Yet another good one, Well explained in clear , plain English
I wonder what was going on in the control room on the mother ship from the time of communication loss to when it was reported to the Coast Guard.
This had happened before (loss of communication with sub) and it eventually popped up so they probably thought that was going to happen. When it did not they finally called the Coast Guard.
Yes, that would be good to know too.
The titanium endcaps look to be in a pretty good condition (except for the missing window), whereas the carbon fiber hull probably didn't have large enough chunks left to be shown in photos. It's almost as if the whole thing should've been made out of titanium. I mean, the submersible was called Titan, so you'd think making it out of titanium would've been appropriate.
Even a titanium tube would have been suspect. I think the belief was CF was actually stronger or as strong, but lighter.
Would be extremely expensive to make a titanium tube of that size, if it even could be done today as you would have to forge it or have a gigantic round stock and machine it. But yeah would trust that more than carbon fiber.
Pressure seeks the weakest link. If the CF hull had been made strong enough, it's the titanium endcaps which would've failed first. One material is not inherently stronger than the other, until you add other constraints (volume, weight, etc) to the equation.
@@solandri69Carbon fibre is not good at compression while it is very good at tension. Carbon fibre will shatter suddenly, it is extremely difficult to check the integrity of a Carbon fibre tube that large & thick. Would have been much better to use a titanium tube.
@@jackdbur Unidirectional carbon fiber composite has a compressive strength of 1200 MPa and a tensile strength of 1500 MPa. By comparison, Ti-6Al-4V titanium alloy has a compressive yield strength of 1070 MPa, and a tensile yield strength of 1100 MPa.
So carbon fiber is not at all terrible at all in compression, IF (and it's a big IF) the fibers are oriented correctly to handle the load. The same composite loaded at 90 degrees to the direction of the fibers is barely stronger than the epoxy resin, something like 250 MPa in compression. In the footage of the construction of the Titan, they seemed to only wind the fibers around the hull, with no fibers oriented axially. So it would seem that the axial pressure being applied by the endcaps to the cylinder was being taken in the direction that the composite was weakest.
All this of course also assumes that the fiber was laid up correctly and had no porosity, voids, etc that would have weakened it further.
Very interesting! I’m glad you’re meticulously going through this.
Thank you for such an informative and educational video on the Titan Implosion. It kept my interest. Like many, I am very saddened by the loss of these courageous people. I hope we will learn what truly happened and why. (My first time seeing your channel). 👍👍
I have been intrigued by this story from day one. I have studied the pics of the debris. Just my thought, but I think the piece of debris shown @7:14 in this video is the aft end cap. I base that on the somewhat circular shape of wrinkling in tarp covering it. I could be completely wrong, but the aft end cap is the one piece, besides the hull, I have not seen definitely in any press photos. So, I am thinking this may be it. Also, in the USGC press briefing the debris expert said, and I transcribed it verbatim, “Within that debris field we found the other end of the pressure hull, the aft end bell, which basically comprised the totality of that pressure vessel.”
I remember someone else saying that it was as if the entire contents of the hull were smashed into the end cap. I’m sorry, I cannot remember the source. That said, I wonder if this pic is, indeed, the aft bell with pieces of the hull melded into it, and that is why it is covered completely? If that is the case, this is most likely where human remains would be found and the reason it is covered completely by a tarp. It could also explain the overall rectangular shape with circular wrinkling within it. Complete speculation on my part, however. This is such an oddly intriguing story, especially for my obsessively inquisitive mind. I am always intrigued by new puzzles and mysteries to solve. Ugh.
This is the full transcription of the aforementioned debris expert…
“Essentially we found five different major pieces of debris that told us that it was the remains of the Titan. The initial thing we found was the nose cone which was outside of the pressure hull. We then found a large debris field. Within that large debris field, we found the front end bell of the pressure hull. That was the first indication that there was a catastrophic event. Shortly thereafter we found a second smaller debris field. Within that debris field we found the other end of the pressure hull, the aft end bell, which basically comprised the totality of that pressure vessel. We continue to map the debris, and as the Admiral said, we will do the best we can to fully map out what is down there.” ~Paul Ankin, @ USCG press briefing, June 22, 2033
@7:14 Studied the pic more and figured out it’s the backside if the tail cone, not the aft end cap.