Does Your Music Suck? No Audience for You!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.ค. 2019
- It's true - if a potential follower hears your music and thinks it sucks, then they are outta here! We've got to stay focused on continually improving our art. I've got suggestions...
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Yes please....would love to hear your thoughts on finding your voice
I appreciate your honesty! It’s refreshing...
The best advice I have been given is to listen to (or look at) one's work as though it is NOT you. Not an easy thing to do. You basically put your work away for a few days (or a week or two), then pick it up as though you just came across it. In the best case scenario you will listen to or look at your work in a different and more critical way.
As a professional writer/editor/photographer, writing and communication instructor, and long-time hobbyist guitar player -- and now a public radio music host who programs his own shows -- I am particularly aware of these issues you raise as they apply to writing lyrics. There is a current release CD at my station by a young up-and-coming blues artist that sits in the "free" box because, as one of my fellow hosts put on a sticky note, "this sucks." I gave it a spin to test his judgment and, while the playing was technically very proficient, I had to agree, it sucks, and primarily because the songwriting is terrible -- cliched licks, progressions and melodies, and awkward, trite lyrics. So it sits in the box with a bunch of self-produced/released CDs from folks with no label deal and equally deficient attention to making their work stand out.
I listen to a lot of music, from punk to soul to roots to world to ambient to electronica and everything in between, and have done so for decades. In all that you say in your video, the thing it boils down to is developing self-awareness -- to pay attention to what you are hearing and, in the case of TH-cam, what you are seeing. Having a critical eye/ear for your own work is not easy to develop, as it requires the creator to have some identifiable and articulated standards and aims. But the payoff is gratifying when you finally offer your creations to an appreciative audience which recognizes your effort. I only recently returned to songwriting on a focused basis, and was extremely hesitant to share my songs with others, as my focus is as a lyricist, not a singer. But we have a local open mic at our art center that is for developing projects/creations/talents and I finally gave it a go. The audience, as you say, was appropriate and my feedback was good, as my lyrics reached folks. Over the past year, that outlet has served to both boost my confidence as a music performer and drive my improvement as a guitarist backing those lyrics. At this point, my biggest hurdle is no longer my vocal and playing abilities, but my work ethic.
I tried to "stand out" for a number of years since around 2005, got a few people get my stuff, listen to it, I sent stuff to webzines and got a few good reviews, others not so much, very small labels released my stuff a couple of times (physical releases and also net labels)... and honestly trying to get that notoriety just got stressful for me. Now I just try to make my music and enjoy trying my best not to worry about anything else.
I do agree, just making the music is not enough, and for a lot of us can be really hard to sell "our product"
All of these are good points, Bill, great insight as usual
If someone thinks that my music sucks, that's fine. If someone likes it, that's cool too. I don't worry about something like that.
Laura Squirrel respect your integrity
same here- ai am shit musician,but i like composing "masterpieces" now and then-it is a hobby and i like it-i do it "for me"
And that's really gotta be the only way to approach one's creative work, IMO and IME.
Not 'I need them to like it' but rather 'It's OK if they don't'.
Face it. Not everyone will like every thing we do. And for those that don't, some still will. Win.
This was just what I needed. I'm at a point in my recording process where all of it sounds like crap. Your insight helps put things in perspective. Thanks.
I like the COO gear demos, but these videos are 100x more useful and interesting. Keep em coming!
Know who your target audience is - that rings a bell.
I was once in a Death Metal/Country and Western crossover duo, and we had a HELL of a job building up a fan bass - but then, that was in the days before the Internet.
A video on alt tuning with capos, a video on developing a personal sound. More thematic vids!
This man speaks and plays soooo well! I can hear you talking for hours... You're great Bill!
Your recent videos have been pure knowledge. Great stuff, sir.
Great video, thank you! And thank you for the positive words at the end of it too :)
I was jamming informally on bass with a bunch of friends for a while doing Guy Clark, Townes VanZant, Steve Earl covers and one of them invited his nephew to join in. This guy was solid jazz fusion and while he definitely had the chops he didn't have a clue of how to approach the songs. It happened again when they invited a lady fiddle player who was into Celtic stuff and she was totally clueless on what to do. But this time it was on stage in front of an audience!
Good information, Bill. And yes, I would be interested in learning more about developing a musical voice. Thanks as always and best wishes!
Ouch that video hurt but, the pain is well worth the lesson. Thanks Bill.
Great video.
I am without a doubt the best songwriter in my house.
Every one of these videos seems to be another nail in the coffin for me haha. Don't really use social media much, don't like to show myself on video (I'm a big introvert) and yes, my music probably does suck. I've got to the point where I just like to put it out there for me now. Each video is another step in the learning process and an outlet for a creative spark that I found later in life.
Good advice as usual... first time I’ve seen you play acoustic & it sounds great! I’d love to hear more
Thanks! I do have a bunch of acoustic here on the channel, but they tend to get buried. Here's a playlist: th-cam.com/video/-Rqe3LpR_PM/w-d-xo.html
I keep watching your series, thanks, as I may have mentioned before, I am in the middle of trying to do just what you are saying, very helpful and encouraging, I always think everything I do sucks, but I keep at it, focus right now is an identity, new logo, new title that stands out from the crowd etc. as you say, I listen and move forward, thanks, fripping good stuff!
I’ll argue on points 2 & 3: You are a very good communicator who knows what you want to say.
Yes to a video about voice development. Great as ever Bill. Thank you.
Thank you for those priceless advices, you really speak from your heart i love it ! I'm finally starting to share my own music after years of self exploration to find my "sound" this is really the biggest challenge for artists i feel. How to channel the higher wisdom of the sould into the art..
Thanks Bill, great thoughts on the subject. 🎼
Funnily enough, I've been thinking about this just today.
I've been listening back to rehearsal tapes from the last week and there's one piece that just doesn't sound good enough. I was surprised that I could listen to it in such a disconnected way because it's something I never used to be able to do.... I guess my ear is improving.
Cool tips, thanks
I think we would all enjoy a video of you talking about your thoughts on developing your voice through music.
That last point about letting people see you improve is a major reason why I started to make videos in the first place. I felt I wasn't ready to publish anything, but it made sense that people will want to know how badly I sucked years ago. My next video will be the 30th... :)
Right now I'm way too busy to be making videos though, but hopefully the saga will continue next year. To my surprise my non-music-related day job has become a meaningful venture and I guess I needed a break from making videos. I've had one paid gig per week for the past month and a couple of more to come, so it's not like I'm not doing music. I have been thinking a lot about what is important, and maybe having a lot of followers just isn't important at the moment. I do want to improve as a musician and my day job is for this year only, so I'm thinking about a fresh start next year for my channel. I feel like it's time for a reboot :)
Even when the music is good, it’s not easy to get an audience. Period.
I challenge anyone to come watch any three of my short music-related vids (I keep most of them 1-3 minutes) and tell me my music ain’t good.
Internet killed music
Slava R I can’t quite agree in full, but I understand your point. I think the wider access the internet allows, basically letting anyone post just about anything and call it music, removes a filtration effect that the former music industry regime provided. Yet, at the same time, we (the ‘consumer’ of this internet material) have been forced to become that very filter. While that has downsides, the upside has been, for me, the discovery of some wonderful musicians I enjoy, whom otherwise I may have never, ever had any access to.
For me, that makes the trade-offs of the internet, overall, a positive thing.
My original training is as a classical guitarist, I majored in CG Performance at CU Boulder under Jonathan Leathewood. Everything was always about improvement. Now that I have moved to this style, I have more than enough technique/music knowledge. I am so grateful for that. Its still an uphill climb!!! I also am able to orchestrate, and play cello. So, hopefully those things get woven in soon. Great video here.
I'm loving this series of videos! Also, I'd definitely be interested in a video about developing your musical voice.
I try to semi-regularly record stuff straight on the voice recorder on my phone and then send to about a dozen of my friends, mostly just for the love of sharing music, but as added feedback as a bonus. Pick a slightly different bunch of people each time, some that are into it and some that are not really into that sort of thing (but can appreciate it), see what they say, you might be quite surprised sometimes!
I second the finding your voice thing!
The best target audience is yourself!
A lot of guys try to stand out by playing more, seems like your approach is the opposite, less is more definitely stands our to me, enjoying your series mate.
These videos come at a great time as I'm trying my hand at TH-cam. Of course, I've already made a few of these mistakes but being early in, this will help keep me on track.
Another vote here for developing your musical voice.
You are great!
Would love a video on finding your musical voice..and I loved this video! Thanks for doing these they really help!!
That was an excellent presentation. I love your channel. I feel I'm pretty good at the indie rock genre with a bent on shoe gaze but now that I'm venturing off into ambient it's been really challenging, I feel my picking is good for "Iron and Wine" type music but my chord knowledge for more sophisticated melody lines suck 😂 I'm trying like crazy to learn more interesting progressions and odd techniques to get into this purely instrumental realm. Your show has been helpful but I still feel I have a way to go. Ambient music imo is not a simple genre, which is funny because I've heard some of my musician friends tell me it's "lazy music" :) but if it's done right it's not lazy! :)
Thanks for making these video. Although my style of music is different from yours, any musician in any genre can get great advice from this series.
Bill, first time I've ever disagreed with a word you've said. @9:48 - Would be one of the most epic moments in musical history. We would also need to have Placido Domingo do the B-side covering "Needle & the Damage Done," "Powderfinger" & "Rockin' in the Free World" to make my world complete.
Whenever I hear someone disparage Allan Holdsworth, or Miles Davis or John Coltrane I certainly don't want them to hear my music. I'm proud not to play my compositions in front of unenlightened dilettantes. I've heard people say Leonard Cohen sucks and I always demand that they explain. I will not relent until they admit their ignorance. What if it is people that suck?
the problem is, the outlets where people hear or see things are controled by Music labels and Clearchannel (who changed their name to i heart radio to sound more cool) they dont CARE about how good your song is. Band-in-a-box is able to now make country and rock and roll and many other genres, and no one is going to know that the track was made using band in a box.
If you listen to todays music, they want to have mega bass. so they will have a heavy bass drum...and since that took all the frequency away on the low end. all there is left is a yelling woman vocal...in the mids. then that obnoxious Trap hi hat....the crescendo white noise, that underwater lo-fi break...and synths.
Listen, you could actually have radio ready music, and mtv ready videos, and get 30 views. TH-cam has now pushed back people who are not already coming in with huge followings. they even will claim you dont have views when you DO!
You could sound like the beatles, and you cant get views.
You yourself prove this. you listed all the required websites. facebook, instagram, twitter. You didnt list the second largest video site..>dailymotion. Why? because youre trained not to go to that.
And twitter...thats just celebrities and political leaders doing all the talking and we do all the listening. We talk back and never get responses. Lets be truthful. That is an inferior version of facebook and came out after fb did. We learned of it by the news, not organically. the platform was an environment where we, the common man, joined and IMMEDIATELY were the lesser voice.
twitter hasnt made you a red cent. Nor has it gained you any new followers.
Who are followers anyhow? those interested in you, but are not creators themselves? Because creators are not going to buy yur shirts and cups.
so whats really happening here? the money is in those affiliate links... NOTHING ELSE.
the money is in being guitar center, selling dreams... not in being the dreamer.
because musica;lly, at this point, "music" is being created by Fruitly loops, Band-in-a-box, and other programs...YES IN ROCK AND ROLL AS WELL> and NO you cant tell the difference when its made by some of those programs.
and most certainly that layman wont be able to, nor do they care. we might as well sell all this Sh** to be honest with you. its been relegated to being a hobby. Which is not why I play. if it doesnt sell, Im not playing.
9:41 Instantly thought of Serj Tankian's symphonic fusion stuff he's been going after..
Sound advice Bill!
4:30 thought I dropped my phone on my face and freaked out enough to actually drop it on my face
The first minutes I thought: Hey! What about Neil Young? Personally I don't like social media and socialising with all kinds of people (anymore). I don't have Facebook (deleted) or Twitter or else. I'm not that much an ambient guitar player but I like ambient music and I play guitar. Maybe there are ambient guitar players that are not so good at representing themself or just don't like the idea of being an online personality without having (any real) control over it. There are other platforms: Bandcamp, Soundcloud... I would recommend those to build a musical persona. If you want to make music: make it. You can load it up somewhere: load it up. You want a running youtube channel: follow Bill's instructions.
really great "lesson", yep. i've lost my wish to adress an audience long ago with the music i made professionally but only make music for me. but that might'nt be necessarily so. "finding your voice", well, one can never think too much about that - so, yes, please!
Great pointers. Would you mind doing a video revisiting some of the basics of frippertronics? And would you do one talking about the compostional side of ambient music? Thanks!
He has already done some Frippertronics videos, there are there on the channel.
@@stevesmith3990 Yes, I am aware of these wonderful videos. That is why I say "revisit the basics", maybe an update on the topic would be interesting!
Some of the stuff i put up has sucked but I think it depends on my mood and intention
Hi. Thank you for your content. Question, what do i need to produce good youtube videos. I have a lot of topics i wanna post but also....i live in a Spanish speaking country with a very small audience for my topics.
I kinda adapted my Ebow for metal music, I keep finding more and more use for it each day
My music sucks, but I'm quite entertaining live. It's like that disturbing car crash, or two dogs humping in the front yard when you're driving down the street....you can't help but watch!
“Sucks” is subjective.
Look at how many people think the sh... that Justin Bieber sings to is good.
The portion where you speak about people not standing out is one of the biggest issue I find with a lot of musicians.
Too many people try to copy others.
Pity they're just plastic toy people... sometimes I don't even think there is enough going on to even make an real evaluation or opinion... they're just flapping about in the wind.... influenced by the ridiculous marketing campaigns and being told what's good!
Turbo Plasma Chicken, yep. Unfortunately, most people are not critical thinkers; they feel a need to be told what to think, feel, say or do.
this advice applies to all musicians
Have you seen my stuff? From keyboard music I’ve written over the years to recent learning more guitar. Some better than others. Hahaha. My journey.
I think you should have put a comment about the video on developing a voice and just have people give it a thumbs up or down so you can easily see the vote.
That's a definite MAYBE! Bill, did you make this video just for me? LOL. Man, I've been at this 13 years and have a handful of friends who subscribe. Perhaps they know I don't take my music too seriously. Perhaps they see the weak spots and FORGIVE ME when something erroneous falls out, because I'll record mistakes. We all do. I figured after a year or two, something special would get recorded, and I could listen to that special moment over and over and over, but that's just not the case. There are some special moments, where you enjoy the sound of the instrument as it was recorded, with some effects. But if you listen too many times, as with anything I guess, it loses it's intrigue.
So the test changed. I don't look for that special moment any longer. I look for wear items, bits and pieces that will negatively impact the music, and remove those. Occasional tests, putting the song on repeat and going to sleep with it playing, will find that wear part, that shock absorber that fails prematurely. I've always wondered why channels with 100K subscribers would say 'your music sucks'. That's pretty childish, because nobody sucks. That's just too cruel. Some people need refinement, everybody has original good ideas, and I like almost everything I hear on YT. Yes some of it is recorded poorly, some of the distortion is way too fizzy, but that just identifies the performers step along the way.
It has been said, I suck. I can handle that. Anybody who knows my commentary can see that I'll directly challenge anybody to play and record their music for YT, enjoy yourself doing it, make that video of the performance and share it. It doesn't have to be perfect. We need to remove the fear of failure, and basically stop holding everyone to the same standard that our favorite records took $200k and one year to record. We have $2 and about 3 minutes. Everybody sucks. ;)
That's the great thing about the world we live in - you can share your stuff at whatever level you like!
I am improving as time goes on but i think my problem is not that my music sucks but what to do with a composition once i am happy with it....who would want to listen to it.
Great video, as usual. One thing I do to determine if my music sucks: I play it to my wife. :) Sometimes I think I've created an interesting piece but listening to it with my wife immediately sobers me up and I can see that I produced a bland piece of boredom (or not). Also, (as you mentioned it in this video multiple times) I'd be interested in your opinion on the track that starts playing when visiting my channel. If you have the time. - ooof, that was pretty shameless :) I'm sorry
Let's not forget that making a faustian pact helps with one's 'popularity'. Cynical moi?
how about a new ambient challenge: Use your voice only and effects pedals
The musical voice advice would be very useful
OMG! My music video is always perfect until I switch from open Dm to bar Gm! Practice, practice, practice! :-0
Do you play gigs as an ambient guitarist or do you mostly do recorded music? If so, what are the gigs like? I'm a saxophonist but I've recently been putting a board together and I'm curious about the gig context. What and where is appropriate?
No - I do not play gigs at this point in time. It's all recorded music. But if I were to do a gig (and there might be one later this year), it would have to be an ambient music / electronic music crowd. I would not try to play restaurants or bars.
But Pearl Jam or say Tool, just to give some examples, were pretty anonimous during the 90s and they had a lot of success (and are still relevant nowadays) I believe that sometimes mystery helps too, probably depending on the style? Don't know. What do you think?
I just recently came to the conclusion that my music sucks. Deleted all of my TH-cam uploads, Bandcamp, SoundCloud, etc
I just aspire to be adequate, I think that's probably all I can do lol
I mostly produce music in FL Studio but this still helps. I've been thinking for a long time to get a female vocalist for my music but I have no idea what sort of vocals would fit my style. Would love to get some feedback from anyone who has the time. Instagram id - Talking in Technicolor. Some of the tracks I have up on my soundcloud/delayedreflection
To name a few, my inspirations are bands like Sakanaction, Parcels, Phoenix, L'imperatrice, Justice, The Midnight, Timecop1983, & mostly video game soundtracks.
I just clicked on this specifically to write YES MY MUSIC SUCKS
can you shoot another forest performance?
I would like to!
Are you sure? I mean there's a lot of music on line with a following that really sucks...
...boy, there's one in every crowd, right? 😈 (I'm being wicked)
4:00...yeah, see, Neil Young sucks and he made a bunch of money!
Oops I did it again! 😈
Good stuff. I've gotta go to sleep, I'll watch the rest in the morning. Thanks for the video and tips.
That’s a great question. Does my music suck??
I DO suck!
this created to much despair to continue, i'm done
I don't know but I'm willing to bet yours does
Here's one of my latest albums. Let me know what you think: th-cam.com/video/CilD8Fgp6Ko/w-d-xo.html
I’ve come to the realization that I’m the only one that likes my music.
I'm the only person I know who hates "The Eagles". Yes, I said it. Not Sacrosanct to me.
desperado is on my top 10 most hated songs I have ever heard in my life.
Well, those were the 70s, people were gullible anyway...
✔️ᗪᗝᑎ'丅 ᗷᗴ ᑎᗩᗰᗴᒪᗴᔕᔕ ᗝᖇ ᖴᗩᑕᗴᒪᗴᔕᔕ. 😷👍
Tell me if i suck?
I think this topic is far too subjective for a discussion to have any helpful or meaningful impact. For instance, do you really believe that nobody out there thinks Chords of Orion music sucks? What would you do about that? Change your style to please as many people as possible? I like your music and what you do. But I think this is now beginning to go off track. I look forward to more music and pedal reviews. Thanks!
Oh absolutely, many people think my music sucks. But most of them are not in my target audience. That was one my points in the video - if you don't have the right audience, they may not like your music. And no - I will never change my style unless I desire to do so! 😎
Then we are in agreement. There is no point whatsoever in discussing whether my music, your music or any music sucks. The music comes first, the audience second. It makes no sense to talk about a “target” audience.
Based on your comment, I don't believe we are in agreement. If you want to market your music and build an audience for it, then it is critical to determine a target audience. There is also a lot of sense in determining if your music sucks so you can improve it for your target audience. If you don't care about an audience, then of course, none of this matters.
The concept of "target audience" implies audience first, music second. That's what "target" means, and that's why I don't agree with that artistic attitude. If the goal is to make money on TH-cam, then we are definitely not in agreement.
Sorry for the delay in replying - your message got caught in the spam filter for some reason. Anyway, I certainly agree that the art should be first, but with an understanding of who the art can reach being second. That's exactly what my own approach. I don't compromise my music, I try to find the audience who will like it as it is.
I don't think that there's such thing as music that sucks and I also believe that there's no such thing as music that's good. That all depends on the individual and thats what determines whether it's good or not. (nice vid btw ☺)
Hmm. So, going by your apparent metric and applying it to creativity overall... there should also be no such thing as sucky movies, TV shows, books... or even food that sucks. Only MUSIC? Wow. Sure, individual opinions certainly apply, but, let's face it: some things ARE simply better than others. Just sayin'.
How would you determine whether a song or movie is better than another ? Vote?voting is never accurate with gender, race, beliefs, and number of people.The day you get everyone in the world to watch two movies and vote for one,i will call it better. For now it depends on the person.
My music sucks,nobody likes my "music"-my "music" is only hobby-and i dont give a shit,to be honest
Congratulations you’ve explained nothing
Neil Young - Trans