Nothing wrong with another GR Supra video Mark and Jack. These revisit/retrospective reviews particularly on sportscars are very informative and intriguing to watch as perspectives change over the years. I'm guessing at least one of you have watched Robert Mitchell and Misha Charoudin's videos where they didn't like the bumpsteer and the TC/ESC issues with the GR Supra they had experienced at the Nurburgring?
@@0Camus0 Yes I've been a long follower of his channel from his S2000 days, to now driving a 991.2 GT3! And yes its interesting that he has a different opinion on the Supra's 'bumpsteer' thing. I forgot if he came up with that observation after him and his team mate have done extensive mods to the car but still, he's a great driver for his age!
@@smilepermile8165 Yes, he is very talented, had his fair share of accidents as any track driver and I hope he make it far! On the bumpsteering thing, some people said that the alignment from the factory is off, and that could also be the reason.
@@carboydorifutoparty3976 yeah, that's what I am saying. How come Mark loved the Supra 2020, then was "3 pedals from perfection" and now he says it's bad. Honestly he is butthurt that the Supra destroyed his LC500 😆. I am joking all right?
Honestly I'm beginning to appreciate the supra more because of all the new cool JDM sports cars popping up, almost like another 90s sports cars resurgence
It's interesting, I'm having the opposite effect with the Supra. The new Z car from Nissan looks like a better car through and through and is cheaper on top of that. So it makes me really wonder why the new Supra is so expensive.
@@dylanfarris7647 Z is $40k still on the 370Z chassis and doesn’t come with a proper diff at that price. Going to be $45k to get one you’ll actually want. Still cheaper than the Supra but the chassis in the Supra will be night and day better than the FM from Nissan. It does however render the 4cyl Supra even more pointless than it was before
@@bfife22 I keep hearing people quote $40k for the new Z but the only confirmation from Nissan as far as I am aware is that it will be "...from the low 40's". We got the same story with the C8 "...from $61k" but that's a far cry from reality on top of they fact they massively strip the car to advertise that/pique interest. I'll be surprised if you can get a Z for much below 48-50k after markup and I doubt dealers will have anything on their lots without options. I hope for the best though- I want the Z to succeed.
@@dylanfarris7647 It’s BMW , ironically Toyota says it was too expensive to develop their own, so they partner with BMW, it’s made in a BMW factory in Austria what did you expect, it’s going to be at Euro prices and 50k really prices have dropped already! Also people calling it JDM, it’s not JDM, it’s not made in Japan at all, it’s name only, it’s like Hugo Boss saying designed in Germany made in China and sold at a German priced This is the fake world we live in. I’ll happily take a Nissan made in Japan for 40k and fix its problems than at minimum a 50k find that hard to believe and still have to pump money in it to get it right and it still dosent have a MT. Another thing ai find funny is these guys like many others use the excuse sports cars don’t sell in big numbers, they never did, the original Supra never sold well in the US and was pulled from the market at the time due to low volume sales, you make a flagship car or a sports car to sell your mass vehicles, it shows what a brand is capable of and trickles down, perception or otherwise win on Sunday sell on Monday, it’s why cars like the Nissan GTR got names like Godzilla, outside of the US original Supra’s we’re loved before Fast n Furious but in the US it took a game and a movie to make it and market it as a legendary car, not so for the Subaru Impreza WRX/STi , Skyline GTR, Mitsubishi EVO, RXs they all did this in competition and outside the US are were already loved desired without marketing hype! Real world didn’t need hype, results delivered legends when it was a real world not a fake one!
Savage G, you’re the man. I’ve been tracking my 2021 Supra for the last year and half and you hit the nail on the head. As I was learning the Supra’s limit, it became apparent early on that the backend would snap out in a strange way, almost as if the car was saying, “hey nerd, you trying to drift? Let me help you, boom!” That being said, after changing the suspension/alignment/brakes and adding 265F/305R, this car has been amazing at the track, no more bump steer and unpredictability. Thanks for your continued honesty and accurate reviews/information. Very cool to see this when I can relate and truly see how good your reviews/info really are.
I am just grateful to see so many awesome cars coming out. All I see on the road are SUV’s and trucks. Competition is a great thing. The GR Supra has made other car makers up their game. Gives me options. My 2001 Celica GTS won’t last much longer and I am looking to get into a fun car for retirement.
I don't post TH-cam comments. Been following supra mk5 posts but don't get why people hate the car when they obviously not the target demographics. I know supra owners who really love the car and I'll be soon an owner of one too as soon as we get news on the 2022 variant. Appreciate the fact that this supra even exist and if you want a Toyota breed get the gr86 (despite engine from Subaru). Had the frs and it was a blast to own. If you really dislike the supra just don't buy it. Make your money talk.
I agree. It definitely reminds me of the bmw m2 with the n55 engine that people called “not a real m car” (not the m2 competition with the m3/4 engine). I honestly don’t know who would cross shop the GR supra with the 718. At the supra’s price point, you would be looking at a 4cyl 718... For msrp, I think it’s a good sports car. Perhaps it’s the “supra” moniker that has implied a Japanese sports car impression
I've been an owner of a 2021 3.0 Premium since April and I love it. I never cared about the Toyota/BMW Supra drama nor did I have mythical/inflated mindset about the MKIV and its legacy.
@@Clockwork2004 I only got myself into this 'hobby' very recently. In looking to find a semi-affordable dream car to save up for, the Supra has been the one option I just can't shake off of me. As someone who could care less about fandom influenced legacy, that car looks like something right up my alley. It also doesn't help that I also happen to like BMW here, so to me that never was a problem. And if anyone were to talk semantics, no car ever really is constructed entirely from one country, no matter how much marketing a company will spew out to tell you otherwise, so really, what difference does it make? lol
Owner here too that doesn't form opinions from internet keyboard warriors or TH-cam journalists who get hung up on brand names. If you want a great turbo 2 seat sports car this is definitely an option!
It’s a great car. Owned it since April and it’s such a solid all around drive. Also the hate you see only stays online and everyone in person gives positive reactions.
Mark, going off on a rant, "GR is their baby and we haven't gotten a good answer on why the first branded GR product isn't built by Toyota." Jack, "So this has a B58."
It seems to be a car that's meant to be modified. You can turn it into anything you want, because the potential, (and of course, community) is there. GT car, Track car, Drift car, simple commuter, anything. Maybe that's what this car is meant to be, a gateway, an entrance, or starting point, rather than a "finished product" that needs an identity.
Seems like they lost the source file path in editing and didn't realize it upon rendering maybe? Like the timeline stayed the same in the editing software but it lost the file it was referencing... weird. an easy mistake to make though.
I own a 2020 and this is a great assessment. It’s extremely easy to tune the engine and suspension to dial in the kind of behavior you want. It’s a fairly polarizing car, but it’s fun on track if you have quick hands. I disagree with the bump streer assessment from Robert and Misha. The car was designed this way intentionally. How many people are going to be creating a hill at 200 km/hr and have to worry about the ultra specific use case they discovered?
@@redbaron5308 Quick hands on track. How quickly you can respond to changes in the dynamics of the car when it begins to oversteer. If you’re slow, you spin.
At first I wasn't much a of a fan of this car, but now im really starting to like it. Have been seeing decent amount on the road and they do look really good in person, especially with some simple mods. They are fast as hell to. Definitely making 382whp.
Yeah I've found they look better in person than in photos somehow. Also the looks really seem color dependent, the neutral color ones really catch my eye, like it shows the curves better. I find myself in LA more interested in looking at these in person than the mclarens and misc. Ferraris/lambos
All things considered this car has one of the quickest growing and healthiest aftermarkets in the world after being out for only 2 years definitely a tuners car
I’m not just talking drivetrain of course but also things like Aero and cosmetics in general many well known JDM companies support this car as if it was a (true) JDM car
People are paying money to tune 'snappiness' in to their ZF transmission. Calling this a budget M-car is huge compliment in my book. I'm glad this car exists and hope they sell a bunch of them!
Not to mention it actually gives the M2 Competition a run for its money at a lower price point. Regarding sales, it has already topped the sales of the MKIV.
This comment alone defines a big reason why I got my 2021. I hear it’s just a bmw daily while driving it and to me yes it is while also looking way less mature……and that’s why I love mine more than any other car I’ve owned.
I still love the supra, for all its fake vents and BMW-ness. Here in Australia it's literally half the price of a moderately specced cayman S - as a value proposition it's hard to beat.
@@proteinabuse1808 I had the unexpected opportunity to see one in person and sit in it. I didn't like that the dashboard display really became a view obstruction due to the low driver position, even more so in front of a relatively small windshield. Outside, you can change its visual style if you go one wheel size smaller and get the differently colored side elements. Makes it look more sleek and elegant while the bigger wheels make it look more compact and nimble. I'd say the former is better for achieving some of the oldschool Supra vibe. The owner also said he's gonna send the steering wheel to a specialist to have the lower end flattened to have more clearance towards his legs.
Another perspective: The new Supra has the same motor/transmission (B58 i6/ZF 8-speed) as the BMW M340i. The M340i is a stupidly fast car and costs significantly more than the Supra for the same equipment... and the Supra is faster. That motor has been named to Wards 10-best powertrains for several years, and for good reason; it's one of the smoothest, most responsive engines you can get south of $100k. That actually makes the Supra a really good value for what you get.
@@PrimusCenturion is faster and more practical. But a Z with i6 is also faster, more crisp and better interior. What kills me about this Zupra is that if you have a recall you have to go to a bmw dealer and I imagine that for other repairs you will have to go too. Zupra's a flop
1st view! I never comment on TH-cam videos but hope you guys see this.. you're doing by far some of the best car reviews out there! Real top notch cinematography. Also the level of knowledge and honesty you guys offer just does not exist anymore on other channels. Amazing work and thank you for the hours of entertainment!!!
Love or hate it, the GR Supra is made with the Toyota and BMW joint venture and maybe a joint venture can help bring more sports cars and enthusiast models at an affordable price And I think they made a really good car that pays homage to the Supra heritage
@@samuelorellana2603 now that is a good question. Doubt Porsche would step up. Maybe Mazda? Maybe BMW wants to resurrect the M1 mid engine super car? Ooooo that is a tough one.
The reality is that the Mk4 was a shit car other than the engine. There's a reason it's famous in Fast and Furious for going in a straight line, not for taking corners at high speed.
@@nikisepps but imagine a collaboration between Toyota and Porsche? Two huge juggernauts of the automotive world. I could see it if both companies have their eye on a piece of the other's tech
@@Dowlphin Don't they actually record engines these days and then modulate them based on the RPM? I think they do a better job than fake engine noise LOL.
@@Vicobop It would take a lot more than that simple technique to get it right, although the brunt of it would be that. What I meant, of course, is that if driving the actual real-world car sounds like a shitty 90s video game, then it's easy to recreate that.
It will be interesting to see how well the soon-to-arrive Nissan Z, which will have a manual option paired to their highest HP-rated engine, stacks up to Toyota’s Supra proposition. Can’t wait for the comparison.
I think the Supra will look a lot more appealing compared to the Z once Toyota reveals the model with manual transmission. Until then, I consider the Supra's thunder well and truly stolen.
The 400Z is a 370Z with a power bump, that's it. It's a parts bin special with a chassis from the stone age. I daily drove a 370Z for 60K miles. It was outdated back in 2010 when I bought it. I will be truly shocked if the reviews of the 400Z say it's much more than that. Just my opinion, and I want to be wrong, I want the 400Z to be a revival for Nissan sports cars... but I don't see how it can when so much of it is carryover ancient Nissan hardware.
@@nategjesdal4405 I was thinking about the same thing. I DO NOT hate 370Z or upcoming 400Z, but it`s an upgrade of an ancient car so I`m not sure if it can compete in the same game as Supra, which is a relatively new BMW-based vehicle that focuses on the racing performance. Yes, only 20% of the 400Z`s components are exactly the same as the previous model but it`s still based on the exact same platform. I personally think that those two cars have slightly different design intent so it finally comes down to the customer`s preferences. Supra is a sports car that`s meant to be raced while 400Z is a GT car with tons of horsepowers that can come with manual.
@@nategjesdal4405 Carryover stuff doesn't bother me at all as long as what's being carried over is reliable and high-performance. My butt dyno can't tell how old the architecture is, especially when I'm having fun and the touch points aren't 90s GM quality.
They can try going to Mexico; Doug DeMuro is apparently going there to review a GR Yaris. Or Canada, because I’ve heard that their government is considering to allow EU-spec cars.
The median price for a new car is just under $40k. 25% over that really isn't all that expensive unless you simply can't afford a new car, or just the very cheapest ones. A good percentage of the population (me included) could afford this. I won't be buying one because we have only one garage space, and because it's just ugly. I hate those rolls of fat that run along the sides and over the rear wheels. They look like they were styled with an ice cream scoop. The faux-F1 front end was already a cluché a decade ago. Toyota really needs better stylists.
I think the B58 engine is one of the greatest engines of our time......which is why I wanna just drop one with a manual trans into a used GR86 chassis. That's basically the Supra we deserve. I own a JDM MkIV / JZA80 Supra and I'll never sell it, but I'm still glad the A90 exists.
Same here with a m40i and I’ve raced a few mustangs and vettes and one Supra and all practically even runs and I’m talking half car links at most. Hell it’s even hard half the time to get someone to try me from a stop light
When the GR Supra came out, it was almost all alone. Now it’s got plenty of healthy competition; we are in great time to be experiencing these sports cars (markups aside).
I'll probably be in the market for a sports car in 2023. While I like the new Supra. Some of the soul is lost by having the BMW partnership. The Z, while still using the older architecture (I view it as a plus), it was made in house and the manual being standard sells it for me. I don't track cars and I'm too old to race around on the streets. I just want to shuffle through the gears and have a quick car to enjoy.
@@9unslin9er I’m planning on getting a GR86, reviews are extremely positive so far. I’m glad the new Z comes with the manual, but it feels like an uglier 370Z with a new engine, for $45k if you want a proper diff
The late 80s Celica Supras were nothing more than Celicas with a bigger motor and Toyota is just not great at building sports cars. They never built a good sports car that beat the Nissans or Hondas in their own country.
Love the comparisons made and how you guys got more into the philosophy behind this car and how it just stacks up. I feel like I have such a fundamental understanding coming here than any other channel.
I’m glad Toyota, BMW, Chevy, Porsche still make enthusiast cars for us. My preference is for the 718. No goofy styling, no weird interior ergonomics. It is so ridiculously easy to drive quickly, so satisfying to cover ground and rail around corners, that I have forgiven Porsche for the 4 cylinder engine. There really is no substitute.
I had an A90, sold it for a regular OG M2 in Manual, couldn't be happier. More practical, though not as fast, but much nicer to live with, and I can drive in Sport Mode all day and not wake up my neighbors.
@@cowmath77 You can no longer buy a regular M2, hence why I said competition. It starts around 60 k. My buddy just bought a Supra 3.0 for 57 k out the door so still really not sure what you’re talking about. I’m not talking about the Supra 2.0; even if I was it’s still not 2 times the price. So you’re wrong either way.
@@cowmath77 MSRP on his supra was 57k, basically every option, although there aren’t many. M2 comp is realistically a bit more than that but it’s absolutely worth around 5k more imo. Yeah the CS is way different than a 3.0 Supra price wise lol.
@@cowmath77 A $25k 135i with 550hp isn't what I'd call reliable or a steal. Great cars but IMO a mild tune with lots of basic maintenance is where they shine.
Yes, I do rear-slides every day on the way to work.. It always amazed me when I listen to these young kids reviewing cars. By the way, we are all racers, it is just those officers with radars who spoil the fun.
Can’t go to a NASA event without seeing several of these on Track. Great looking cars and seem to be decent on Track. When is the C6 Z06 Re-visit video coming out?
@@svn5994 Whos overrating a car that is almost universally joked about cause of how it was made? If anything its slightly cause underrated people just say they don't like BMWs and then immediately bring up the Corvette that needs $10k in options to actually handle like a sports car and not a Sunday driver for retirees.
Whenever you guys say it has an identity crisis I don’t know what you mean because whenever I’m in the supra, I can tear through back roads and curvy corners with complete ease and still have full control over the vehicle. Then again, I also haven’t bought it to a track.
I have heard that the Supra needs an alignment upon delivery to factory specs. They give it some kind of ‘no rear camber, no rear toe’ alignment during shipping that makes it really unpredictable to drive. Several sources have said after an alignment to factory specs, it was rock solid
That’s interesting. I haven’t heard this. I just brought mine in for an alignment after installing HKS Hipermax adjustable springs. I’m due for a track day in September. I’ll revisit these comments.👍🏾
@@Peaceable75 also, I have heard some dealers go ahead and do the alignment when they receive it. My friend, for instance got one that did have the alignment. You can tell because there is visible rear camber. He also says he has no idea what this rear instability is, that people are speaking of, haha
@@aisu8481 I sure will. This car is excellent in every way. Extremely entertaining. There is an abundance of extra “tweekability” being that it’s of BMW/ Toyota lineage. After you spend some time with it I’m glad I didn’t buy the 60-65k C8. If I put $700 into a piggyback, $400 into a downpipe, and $300-$500 into a tune, it’s a mid to high 10 sec car.
@@Peaceable75 those thoughts resonated by almost every other owner I’ve met. It’s an incredible value for its potential. The new Z is getting a lot of hype, but it takes a lot more than specs to be what the A90 is.
This car segment needs manual transmission. They aren't super fast that it's uncontrollable with a manual. But if they are gonna use tall ratios then might as well leave it automatic. Cayman GTS 4.0 manual is pointless on the street.
@@aaronbryan5095 They feel like there is no incentive to develop the transmission for the street as well. Cars are designed to be too fast to these days.
@@jeffcheng5058 Yeah. Any street legal car would find itself on the streets mostly regardless of how good it is as a track car. So say some rich dude who doesn't track a GTS 4.0 Cayman wants to enjoy it on the road. The next thing is being pulled over for going over the speed limit in 2nd gear.
This had to have an R6, dude, otherwise it would have been even less Supra. On the other hand, it's paired with fake engine noise to get the familiar sound (badly approximated).
@@Tiax776 125k was a price that was heavily subsidised :D Internals and the v10 itself is insane. Impossible to mass produce at all :-) 2UR-GSE is mass produced V8 and still 40k+ USD new from dealership.
I really love the way this Toyota looks. I really do. And I am a Supra fan because of the Castrol Supra GT racing car that for many years was the hero car of Gran Turismo, specifically GT 1. Never saw the F&F movies so I never...grew into that Toyota history fan base. Is it more BMW? Sure...I guess...but it has Toyota DNA, and the look is just amazing. BMW driving style? That sounds good. I like M cars and was really wanting an M2 before this came out. I'm holding off for just a bit longer to see what refinements get made in the later versions, but mark my words, this is going to be one of my forever cars. Oddly enough the manual...I dunno. I've never been good with a manual when I'm off the track. They take a lot of work and I grind gears on occasion when in traffic. I guess that means I'm just a bad driver (I have no car friends, just my wife who politely smiles when I talk about cars), and so for crawling in traffic or when trying to avoid feeling like I'm hurting a 50K product by being bad at driving, I feel I will still go with the Z8. I guess I'm the driver everyone hates. ... sorry ... (LOOKING FORWARD TO TOYOTA DEVELOPING HYDROGEN ICE FURTHER...who know...maybe a Hydrogen I6 is in the MK6s future?) I hate evs.
I like your honesty my dude. I'm more a cruiser, so if given the chance and the money, I'd choose the zf auto in a supra, even if Toyota offered a manual option in the future.
I hope you come back to this car after the new wave of JDM cars are released, ie. 400Z and Integra. We're entering another golden age of japanese sports cars
I don't think it's another golden age, there's not enough affordable sporty JDM cars. I think of it more like a last hurrah for JDM cars.this is the last generation of ICE engines.
You talk about how the GR86 didn't get much pushback because it didn't have a connection to history. I think the more appropriate reason is that people in the US didn't identify with the AE86 and all its history, that was pretty much a japan exclusive. Meanwhile the Supra resonates with everyone in the US largely because of its prevalence in culture.
the zn6 was called the 86 in some or all of europe too. but yea in the US they did the right thing and used the scion brand so it was all a new idea to US buyers. i dont think its an "86" revival at all anyway. its more of a celica if anything (fefore celica was turned into fwd)
The 86 is more a spiritual successor than the Supra. Yeah it's a Subaru motor but it's still Japanese and Toyota had more input in it. The Supra is 90% BMW. I mean they couldn't even bother giving it unique door chimes l
I really likes the looks of this car. It's all the tech that scares me about having a car like this long term. I guess I'm just turning into an old man! Haha
@@Gorilla_Jones your biggest concern should be that it’s a bmw in general, not just the tech. I know Toyota said they ripped apart the engine to make sure it was up to their durability standards, but there’s just so much that bmw fails at overtime with reliability.
The timing chain is on the back, two cooling systems, plastic everywhere. It looks just as bad as a mid engine Corvette for guys ar home with jackstands.
From someone who actually owns a Supra and daily drives it I can tell you that it’s very reliable. I am almost at 10k miles and have yet to have an issue .
BMW's manuals are horrible to drive. Would rather Toyota beef up the one in the GR86 (also i've driven the M2 CS with the stick, which is why i say this)
@@gwot Im fairly certain what Toyota does with the Supra is no longer up to BMW since the co-development phase is over. Example: remember how toyota advertised the supra only has "335 horsepower" the first year to protect the Z4 and then very next Toyota "bumped it" to 380ish--that was all Toyota, not BMW (this is a good thing, by the way, I think Toyota should go nuts with the Supra now).
@@Nick-qx1vf The co-development phase was over since the first quarter of development because of German law prohibiting full beginning to end development with foreign companies. So they pretty much only decided which BMW part is going in the car, then split ways. But I have a feeling they have a contract and that Toyota doesn't have free rein. I'd love to be proven wrong, it'd be nice for the Supra to depart from a full BMW.
The editing on this one was a little confusing. On the track, you were calling the rear end playful and fun, but in the final thoughts it is annoying or dangerous? I personally agree with the latter, but again just a little odd.
I think the difference is it's playful on the track but it bothersome on the street. Specifically because the rear in breaks loose during normal driving.
It will be interesting to see how this car ultimately stacks up against the Nissan Z, which IMHO will be as close to a direct competitor as we'll see on the market.
I loved the Mark IV Supra when it came out. It didn't sell because it was too expensive. Toyota has more than enough money to build one from the ground up. If they did, and charged $65k+ for it, which they would, it wouldn't sell because it's too expensive. So put a Supra badge on a BMW and upset people, or build one from scratch, charge a ton for it, and upset people.
The mk4 was about 80k in today’s money considering inflation. A 60k 80k price would have been justified with performance to back it up. All they had to do was beat the GT350 and 1LE Camaro
I love this Supra even though it's based off a BMW Z4, I actually think this will be the most reliable BMW product in a very long time. I've been wondering whether to get an Accord Touring 2.0t, next gen Civic SI, or a Supra 3.0 premium.
I had a 20 Supra (had issues and recalls) traded it in for an accord 2.0T (2021). The accord can do 0 - 60 at muster over 5 seconds and is way more practical. That being said, I miss the Supra every, as the sound and shifts when driving it hard is such an event. If I could get a good deal on a 21+ Supra, I would go back. What they are saying about the back end is true, so make sure you get good tires and be mindful of it. Safest straight line, whereas need a little more attention when cornering hard. Supra gets more attention, but loads of awesome mods for accord, as such V4 tail lights and Ktuner / hondata flash.
I am actually glad that the Supra is part BMW. It give a outside company a different perspective of the engineering of the Supra. Building a car with different parts from two of the best car companies today mostly BMW ( parts ). The tuning of the Supra is definitely Toyota or I will say the minds or engineering minds of Toyota ( handling ) and body. I would say M car but there is a hint of FRS and BRZ handling in the new Supra.
In all honesty, the GR 86 actually looks like a lot more fun for a lot less money - not to mention that the design of the 86 looks better than the Supra in my opinion (and yes, I've seen the Supra in person).The first thing I noticed when glancing at the interior of this GR Supra was the automatic transmission. I was thinking they might finally stick a manual in this thing. I realize that automatics offer better performance these days, but some of us just prefer driving a manual - it's really that simple. The best infotainment system in the world can never make up for this and I wish that such systems were optional as I'd choose to do without infotainment altogether were it possible.
If we are taking most of your statement in consideration, the GT86 is not a toyota as well, it's a pure Subaru development from the engine, to the drive trains (the first gen atleast). The GT86 doesn't feel more Toyota than the Supra, it just feels like a nice rwd entry level sporty car with a lack of torque, but it doesn't drive or feel like the older Cellica or Supra. I haven't seen people complaining about all the supercar made of AMG V8 engines. For some reasons, I think all the people who are bitching about the Supra being a BMW are all those people who either can't afford the car or wouldn't have purchase one anyway because if Toyota had develop a Supra by their own with their own chassis, drive train + a brand new inline 6, it would have cost 20k more than the BMWish one. In any case, great video as always :)
You are wrong here buddy. I own a Tacoma, a forester and a wrx Sti. You can definitely tell Toyota is Subaru parent company. Some of the materials are the same, they feel similar and build quality is almost identical. Subaru reliability has increased quite a bit too.
Should have the LFA V10 engine........ 🤪 Also should have LFA V10 engine as option in the GR86. I would buy. No fake engine sounds from the speakers needed.
fake engine sounds from the speakers should be Banned from any true sports car..who the hell actually Wants That noise? at least have an option to switch it Off
Doubt its really noise regulations, more like by the time you add 5 catalytic converters and deaden the interior enough so people dont complain about cabin noise then it just sounds like a vacuum cleaner.
Having driven a slightly modified one around for a few days on the street I can attest it is blazingly fast in a straight line. But I found horribly annoying the constant gear shifting of the transmission. Not a car I would purchase, but it was fun to test out.
As a Supra owner for a little over a year I love my car just as much as the first day I got it. As far as the unpredictable rear, mine doesn't seem to have that issue even on track (though I'm nowhere near as experienced as Mark) but I've heard from owner forums that this issue doesn't seem to happen with every car for some reason, so maybe it is an alignment thing. Either way, as Mark said, for the money (I paid $48k for a 20' premium) it's a spectacular car. No it's not a C8, but that's as fair a comparison as putting the supra up against a GR86 when you factor in price. And who really knows how the Z will drive, we'll find out soon and can start comparing then.
@@brandonjames1606 I also had a Camaro zl1 1le at the time and to be honest that car kind of ruined it for the Supra. After a few months I lost interest and I sold it. I used the money to buy a used Prius for commute and invested the rest.
As an owner of a Supra 3.0, I can definitively all the negative reactions of this car from TH-cam car reviews was so far from what the reality is. People come up to comment how much they love this car literally everyday I drive it. So many times random people while driving have given me thumbs up or other positive gestures towards the car. People love this thing. As far as performance, this things is so much fun! It's incredibly fast and quick. It makes any red light, highway ramp, or twisty road so much fun. On top of all that, it's still fairly rare to see and 6 months into ownership, so far reliable. Toyota/BMW hit this one out of the park.
@@0Camus0 how often do haters come up to you and say they hate something? Almost never. The hate definitely exists online and offline, i think the car is lame. Am i going to go out of my way to tell an owner that? No because im not an asshole and don't care, its your money. I personally would buy a porsche cayman
@@sunburst8810 Well, everwhere I go, people give the thumbs up, all the time, it's sometimes awkward, so far the response has been positive. If people don't like the car, that's fine, I bought for me, not for them. The car I would go next is the 992 S manual.
@@sunburst8810 I have someone give me a thumbs up when I'm stopped or people going out of their way to drive up next to me to give me a thumbs up literally every single time I drive my Supra. I doubt there are really that many equivalent haters out there. Also, people who do dislike this car do say it. They have something to say that in their minds doesn't come across as bitchy - "hey nice BMW." I actually own this car. The love this car gets in the real world is insane. The performance is insane. As far as what you'd personally buy, well then go and do it but I promise you if you were actually serious about buying a sports car and it was your own money at stake, you'd spend the $50K for Supra vs $100K for the equivalent Cayman. There really is no competition unless if you have $100K to spend on a car. Which at that point, you're at a whole another tier than trying to buy a Supra.
I'm a huge fan of this car. I love how exotic it looks for the price, and I'm actually VERY glad that they didn't pair that opulence/ character with a Toyota interior fitting of the rest of the lineup. This car doesn't deserve the interior of a Camry or a Highlander. And I think it's way better for it that they took BMW's tech for this.
Can’t wait for the comparison between the supra and the new Nissan Z. I think people will be surprised how good the supra really is when put into perspective by a direct rival.
The Z is so overhyped by all the Nissan fanboys that are present in almost every part of the internet, and they get so butthurt when you make them realise that the car they're jerking off to isn't really as amazing as the think.
It'll be interesting to see how the new Z compares to this, Hiroshi Tamura described it as a "Dance Partner". A more driver focused and less about numbers car.
@@MaddNomad1015 Honestly that's all the 370Z needed, but they've done a lot more than just that. We won't really know what else they've done to the chassis and underpinnings of the car, but considering engineers obsess over little things, probably a lot has been done.
@@MaddNomad1015 Stop using the word "literally" when you're being the opposite of literal! You're being hyperbolic here. If you literally believe what you said is literally true, then just look up some videos. It had fancier interior, digital only dashboard (I want real dials!), a fancy clutch, looks good (the 370 looked too short for its width, and just weird). Do you want me to continue?
If Toyota R&D'd and created the engine themselves, it would cost way more, probably GTR territory. This was geared towards the enthusiasts and the aftermarket. Partnering with BMW made sense. They make some of the best inline 6 turbos. I mean they didn't partner with Hyundai, Kia, or even Subaru. Imagine that. It could have been worse 🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️
I've never gone down a rabbit hole of video searches where I've become less and less enthused about a car as I have with the Supra. I test drove a 3.0 and 2.0 back to back about the same time this video came out and found I loved the feel of the 2.0 liter much more than the 6 cylinder, but the 2.0 doesn't feel quite like it's justified in price and feels like a BMW from the way it drives, looks inside, and let's be honest, I would have to modify the car to appreciate it, which defeats the purpose of buying it in the first place. I've loved my 2018 Civic Si and have over 70,000 miles around the country and on racetracks, and that's what I so badly wanted the Supra to be like but with more power and rwd characteristics but I can't bring myself to emotionally want the car enough to buy it since at its core it's a BMW. I really hope a manual comes out within the next couple of years, otherwise I'm probably going to get an electric car as my new daily since the market isn't offering any decent sports cars any longer. (NO FAKE ENGINE NOISE!!!!!! STOP BEING A THING!!!!)
The rear suspension reacts that way because it's alignment changes drastically in bump/compression. This is caused by having lower connecting points for the connecting arms in the chassis due to the z4 roof convertible roof taking the place up above the rear axle in the chassis. You can add an aftermarket rear subframe from germany that has corrected the problem, but have to cut into the chassis for the install.
Having so much fun with my Supra don’t know why I watch videos of other peoples opinions. I will say that putting an exhaust on changed the profile a lot and the car is now much more engaging. Side note: screen goes black on track a couple times on the track footage
@@topzki47 never experienced or heard of it from other drivers either. Maybe it’s only a problem when drifting, which wouldn’t apply to me since I dont drift my car
If I was going to buy a sports car, I’d need to stay within a $30K to $40K range, so although I’d love to have a Supra, I’d probably opt for a Miata or a GR86. That said, any mention of a Cayman or LC500 is out of the question. The LC500 starts at $93K and the Cayman can top out over $143K, so I really wonder why you’d compare them for the person interested in a Supra. Love your show, as always.
Maybe I'm remember it wrong but didn't Lexus make a new platform for the LC500? It might be bigger but so was the concept that everybody loved and engine wise I think people would be ok with a tuned and capable V6, I personally don't remember people complaining about the R35 on that regard, all the reasons they gave feels disingenuous to me
Nah people complained. One the initial hype of the US finally getting one died off, people complained that it wasn't an inline 6 then complained about it not having a manual. A lot of that noise died off once people got to see what it could do and the competition eventually went the same route, but there's still a loud minority complaining about it 15 years later.
I have owned this car since Sept 2020. This is my very first Asian car and I am certain that had it been a pure Toyota product, there is no way I'd even look at it. Contrary to Mark's take on the lack of Toyotaness, I feel I got a great BMW with Toyota reliability and practicality. That it handles as brilliantly as it does is an added bonus. This car does not make you a better driver, rather, it makes you aware of your deficiencies and your need to learn the car and adapt to it. Not easily done but once you get it, this car is very satisfying and a joy to drive at any speed. As an aside, my Supra replaced a 997 Carrera S PDK.
Great idea for a video and getting in depth with the GR Supra. Interesting to hear about the twitchy handling. I did not get side ways enough in my test drive of GR Supra to experience that, but will be prepared for it to feel different when I get one against my 2017 GT86.
if you work in corporate world, GR product lines make a perfect sense. Lower risk, added brand-ability, more revenue, more sales volume, meeting the pure car enthusiast needs, focusing on selective R&D, dedicate efforts on post-production configuration. Increasing number of companies opt out of end-to-end development and turn into lego builder i.e. buy A B C 1 2 3 and integrate them to their taste. The ultimate goal of this strategy is to buy finished products, give a final touch, and sell them.
I'm no car journalist but I'm definitely an enthusiast. Once its automatic or paddle shift I've already lost interest. The 400z is already a better car just because its more engaging. The Supra is a beautiful car and I'm sure it performs well but Toyota and BMW made a mistake not offering a manual transmission option.
Its not a toyota product? What is a toyota product? A corolla? A 4runner? A rav 4? Toyota is a different company than it was 30 years ago. Glad to see Toyota understands their strengths and weaknesses, and gave us a car that fits the supra space in the 2020s.
The blackouts during the track segment adds some nice artistic flair.
They mentioned a few weeks back they are submitting an episode for Cannes Film Festival next year. Looks like they’re fine tuning.
I thought it was just the edibles.
That's just the tunnels
Literally tried moving back a few frames, thinking TH-cam was on the fritz
I just thought that was my video card messing with me :)))
Jack's helmet looks way too big, bring back the 86 helmet.
I’m shocked he didn’t have a massive headache after that
Right lol we need the head squeezer 5000
@@728GT How does the steering feel? Tight. Suspension? Tight. Cabin? Tight. Overall package? Tight.
this is the SNEL2015 standard and yes it is kinda annoying and yes looks silly AF depending on the brand
I think that's the funniest thing I've read all day. haha
"driving impressions" part blacks out ocassionally, fyi
It's part of the driving quirks.
“You have to imagine that the SavageGeese engineers INTENDED for the picture to black out to give it some CHARACTER.”
It's edgy in a way that makes it more engaging to watch
damn you dell technologies
I thought they went into warp drive.
Nothing wrong with another GR Supra video Mark and Jack. These revisit/retrospective reviews particularly on sportscars are very informative and intriguing to watch as perspectives change over the years. I'm guessing at least one of you have watched Robert Mitchell and Misha Charoudin's videos where they didn't like the bumpsteer and the TC/ESC issues with the GR Supra they had experienced at the Nurburgring?
Check out Jacky Ding Supra, he tracks his Supra, actually it's almost track only, and he didn't agree with the bump steer.
@@0Camus0 Yes I've been a long follower of his channel from his S2000 days, to now driving a 991.2 GT3! And yes its interesting that he has a different opinion on the Supra's 'bumpsteer' thing. I forgot if he came up with that observation after him and his team mate have done extensive mods to the car but still, he's a great driver for his age!
@@smilepermile8165 Yes, he is very talented, had his fair share of accidents as any track driver and I hope he make it far!
On the bumpsteering thing, some people said that the alignment from the factory is off, and that could also be the reason.
@@0Camus0 I've heard some owners say that their factory alignment was off from here and there so it maybe.
@@carboydorifutoparty3976 yeah, that's what I am saying. How come Mark loved the Supra 2020, then was "3 pedals from perfection" and now he says it's bad.
Honestly he is butthurt that the Supra destroyed his LC500 😆. I am joking all right?
Honestly I'm beginning to appreciate the supra more because of all the new cool JDM sports cars popping up, almost like another 90s sports cars resurgence
It's interesting, I'm having the opposite effect with the Supra. The new Z car from Nissan looks like a better car through and through and is cheaper on top of that. So it makes me really wonder why the new Supra is so expensive.
@@dylanfarris7647 Because it's really a BMW and they are never cheap.
@@dylanfarris7647 Z is $40k still on the 370Z chassis and doesn’t come with a proper diff at that price. Going to be $45k to get one you’ll actually want. Still cheaper than the Supra but the chassis in the Supra will be night and day better than the FM from Nissan. It does however render the 4cyl Supra even more pointless than it was before
@@bfife22 I keep hearing people quote $40k for the new Z but the only confirmation from Nissan as far as I am aware is that it will be "...from the low 40's". We got the same story with the C8 "...from $61k" but that's a far cry from reality on top of they fact they massively strip the car to advertise that/pique interest. I'll be surprised if you can get a Z for much below 48-50k after markup and I doubt dealers will have anything on their lots without options. I hope for the best though- I want the Z to succeed.
@@dylanfarris7647 It’s BMW , ironically Toyota says it was too expensive to develop their own, so they partner with BMW, it’s made in a BMW factory in Austria what did you expect, it’s going to be at Euro prices and 50k really prices have dropped already!
Also people calling it JDM, it’s not JDM, it’s not made in Japan at all, it’s name only, it’s like Hugo Boss saying designed in Germany made in China and sold at a German priced This is the fake world we live in.
I’ll happily take a Nissan made in Japan for 40k and fix its problems than at minimum a 50k find that hard to believe and still have to pump money in it to get it right and it still dosent have a MT.
Another thing ai find funny is these guys like many others use the excuse sports cars don’t sell in big numbers, they never did, the original Supra never sold well in the US and was pulled from the market at the time due to low volume sales, you make a flagship car or a sports car to sell your mass vehicles, it shows what a brand is capable of and trickles down, perception or otherwise win on Sunday sell on Monday, it’s why cars like the Nissan GTR got names like Godzilla, outside of the US original Supra’s we’re loved before Fast n Furious but in the US it took a game and a movie to make it and market it as a legendary car, not so for the Subaru Impreza WRX/STi , Skyline GTR, Mitsubishi EVO, RXs they all did this in competition and outside the US are were already loved desired without marketing hype! Real world didn’t need hype, results delivered legends when it was a real world not a fake one!
Savage G, you’re the man. I’ve been tracking my 2021 Supra for the last year and half and you hit the nail on the head. As I was learning the Supra’s limit, it became apparent early on that the backend would snap out in a strange way, almost as if the car was saying, “hey nerd, you trying to drift? Let me help you, boom!” That being said, after changing the suspension/alignment/brakes and adding 265F/305R, this car has been amazing at the track, no more bump steer and unpredictability. Thanks for your continued honesty and accurate reviews/information. Very cool to see this when I can relate and truly see how good your reviews/info really are.
what suspension you're using now? and what kind of alignment setup.. 265/305R doesnt looks like a track setup.
Hi, I’m in the same situation. The bump steer is scary on a wet day. Could you tell me what specifically you did to fix it? Thanks!
I can't, CANNOT stand that replicated engine sound in the cabin.
yep, had to immediately turn down the volume, it was that grating....
Fake engine noise, fake vents, fake Supra
its real easy to disable. first thing i did with mine.
@@rickhunter6513 Imposter Z4 vented In cafe.
@@rickhunter6513 god that gets old.
I am just grateful to see so many awesome cars coming out. All I see on the road are SUV’s and trucks. Competition is a great thing. The GR Supra has made other car makers up their game. Gives me options. My 2001 Celica GTS won’t last much longer and I am looking to get into a fun car for retirement.
Don't let Scotty Kilmer see this comment!!!
I've got a '19 Bullitt, but would wholeheartedly jump into the 400Z or the CT5-V Blackwing. Both with manuals. Oh how much i want them!
@@richardnavratil9661 if it's just for you get the Z, if you have a family get the black wing.
@@ronaldmcdonald9322 according to Scotty, my Celica should have died years ago.
@@richardnavratil9661 Count me in on the 400Z as well, I'm counting the days until the Goose gets his hands on one.
I don't post TH-cam comments. Been following supra mk5 posts but don't get why people hate the car when they obviously not the target demographics. I know supra owners who really love the car and I'll be soon an owner of one too as soon as we get news on the 2022 variant. Appreciate the fact that this supra even exist and if you want a Toyota breed get the gr86 (despite engine from Subaru). Had the frs and it was a blast to own. If you really dislike the supra just don't buy it. Make your money talk.
I agree. It definitely reminds me of the bmw m2 with the n55 engine that people called “not a real m car” (not the m2 competition with the m3/4 engine). I honestly don’t know who would cross shop the GR supra with the 718. At the supra’s price point, you would be looking at a 4cyl 718... For msrp, I think it’s a good sports car. Perhaps it’s the “supra” moniker that has implied a Japanese sports car impression
I've been an owner of a 2021 3.0 Premium since April and I love it. I never cared about the Toyota/BMW Supra drama nor did I have mythical/inflated mindset about the MKIV and its legacy.
@@Clockwork2004 I only got myself into this 'hobby' very recently. In looking to find a semi-affordable dream car to save up for, the Supra has been the one option I just can't shake off of me. As someone who could care less about fandom influenced legacy, that car looks like something right up my alley. It also doesn't help that I also happen to like BMW here, so to me that never was a problem. And if anyone were to talk semantics, no car ever really is constructed entirely from one country, no matter how much marketing a company will spew out to tell you otherwise, so really, what difference does it make? lol
I own a 21 Supra and absolutely love this thing!
Owner here too that doesn't form opinions from internet keyboard warriors or TH-cam journalists who get hung up on brand names. If you want a great turbo 2 seat sports car this is definitely an option!
Honestly I would buy it In a heartbeat if only I could afford it,I've seen one irl and for me it's gorgeous
The way it looks certainly grows on ya.. but I’ve sat in two and there are a plethora of reasons against buying one
@@jeffcheng5058 could you expand on that?
It’s a great car. Owned it since April and it’s such a solid all around drive. Also the hate you see only stays online and everyone in person gives positive reactions.
If looks are all I cared about, I'd get one too. Too bad it's not.
@@eatmorerice69 of course not, it’s TH-cam lol where people make comments and not expand!
Mark, going off on a rant, "GR is their baby and we haven't gotten a good answer on why the first branded GR product isn't built by Toyota."
Jack, "So this has a B58."
It seems to be a car that's meant to be modified. You can turn it into anything you want, because the potential, (and of course, community) is there. GT car, Track car, Drift car, simple commuter, anything. Maybe that's what this car is meant to be, a gateway, an entrance, or starting point, rather than a "finished product" that needs an identity.
It's an automatic. You're not drifting with an auto.
Another person who hasn’t driven a Supra lol
Yep, its Toyotas gateway drug.
I drift my automatic car all the time.
@@D-AVG that's not true
Video cuts out multiple times during the track testing.
Yes I got that too. I wonder what happened.
@Cookie503 oh 100%. Best car youtube channel by far.
I read it as intentional imperfection. Seemed in line with the theme. But maybe I'm reading too much into it.
@@replica4194 Yeah, no.
Seems like they lost the source file path in editing and didn't realize it upon rendering maybe? Like the timeline stayed the same in the editing software but it lost the file it was referencing... weird. an easy mistake to make though.
I own a 2020 and this is a great assessment. It’s extremely easy to tune the engine and suspension to dial in the kind of behavior you want. It’s a fairly polarizing car, but it’s fun on track if you have quick hands. I disagree with the bump streer assessment from Robert and Misha. The car was designed this way intentionally. How many people are going to be creating a hill at 200 km/hr and have to worry about the ultra specific use case they discovered?
Many people will??
@@xXxUrbanNinjaxXx No one that I’ve ever spoken to who tracks their Supra aggressively has ever complained about it including Jackie Ding.
@@revmatchtv but I do :/
Quick hands for an automatic?
@@redbaron5308 Quick hands on track. How quickly you can respond to changes in the dynamics of the car when it begins to oversteer. If you’re slow, you spin.
At first I wasn't much a of a fan of this car, but now im really starting to like it. Have been seeing decent amount on the road and they do look really good in person, especially with some simple mods. They are fast as hell to. Definitely making 382whp.
Yeah I've found they look better in person than in photos somehow. Also the looks really seem color dependent, the neutral color ones really catch my eye, like it shows the curves better. I find myself in LA more interested in looking at these in person than the mclarens and misc. Ferraris/lambos
All things considered this car has one of the quickest growing and healthiest aftermarkets in the world after being out for only 2 years definitely a tuners car
Mainly because the drive train is well known since it's a rebadged BMW. BMW tuning is huge.
@@afrosheenix this
The Z4 has been out for years, so there's a lot of spare parts already.
@@JohnFromAccounting the current gen z4 (g29) was also a revive of the z4 nameplate since 2016 and the first time it had a b58 drivetrain
I’m not just talking drivetrain of course but also things like Aero and cosmetics in general many well known JDM companies support this car as if it was a (true) JDM car
People are paying money to tune 'snappiness' in to their ZF transmission. Calling this a budget M-car is huge compliment in my book. I'm glad this car exists and hope they sell a bunch of them!
Not to mention it actually gives the M2 Competition a run for its money at a lower price point.
Regarding sales, it has already topped the sales of the MKIV.
This comment alone defines a big reason why I got my 2021. I hear it’s just a bmw daily while driving it and to me yes it is while also looking way less mature……and that’s why I love mine more than any other car I’ve owned.
pathetic automatic scum and the shit they'll do... 🤦🏻♂️
He also says an OLD M-car, not just any one. Some were good, some weren't.
I still love the supra, for all its fake vents and BMW-ness. Here in Australia it's literally half the price of a moderately specced cayman S - as a value proposition it's hard to beat.
If they announced a manual I'd take out an 8 year loan on a BMW, something I'd never have even thought of doing ever!
But but it's hideous
@@ArtVandelayOfficial I used to think this until seeing one in person.. Now I'm a Nu-Supra fan
You can still drive in Australia? I though Australia is under house arrest and you can only go 5km from your house arrest.
@@proteinabuse1808 I had the unexpected opportunity to see one in person and sit in it. I didn't like that the dashboard display really became a view obstruction due to the low driver position, even more so in front of a relatively small windshield.
Outside, you can change its visual style if you go one wheel size smaller and get the differently colored side elements. Makes it look more sleek and elegant while the bigger wheels make it look more compact and nimble. I'd say the former is better for achieving some of the oldschool Supra vibe.
The owner also said he's gonna send the steering wheel to a specialist to have the lower end flattened to have more clearance towards his legs.
Another perspective: The new Supra has the same motor/transmission (B58 i6/ZF 8-speed) as the BMW M340i. The M340i is a stupidly fast car and costs significantly more than the Supra for the same equipment... and the Supra is faster. That motor has been named to Wards 10-best powertrains for several years, and for good reason; it's one of the smoothest, most responsive engines you can get south of $100k.
That actually makes the Supra a really good value for what you get.
340i is a way better car than the zupra.
@@blueryxfalls7949 Got some evidence to back up that claim?
@@PrimusCenturion he’s being subjective. Objectively, it’s not a better car. Regardless, the Supra is still a what’s the point car?
@@PrimusCenturion is faster and more practical. But a Z with i6 is also faster, more crisp and better interior. What kills me about this Zupra is that if you have a recall you have to go to a bmw dealer and I imagine that for other repairs you will have to go too. Zupra's a flop
@@blueryxfalls7949 the modern z doesn't have a i6 wot. A stock 240z/280z can't beat the mk5 what are you smoking?
1st view! I never comment on TH-cam videos but hope you guys see this.. you're doing by far some of the best car reviews out there! Real top notch cinematography. Also the level of knowledge and honesty you guys offer just does not exist anymore on other channels. Amazing work and thank you for the hours of entertainment!!!
Love or hate it, the GR Supra is made with the Toyota and BMW joint venture and maybe a joint venture can help bring more sports cars and enthusiast models at an affordable price
And I think they made a really good car that pays homage to the Supra heritage
Well I for one Love it. As a toyota. It looks a lot like the FT1 concept and I'm so happy it's not a 300K dream car.
Wonder what kind of partnership could revive the MR2?
@@samuelorellana2603 now that is a good question. Doubt Porsche would step up. Maybe Mazda? Maybe BMW wants to resurrect the M1 mid engine super car? Ooooo that is a tough one.
The reality is that the Mk4 was a shit car other than the engine. There's a reason it's famous in Fast and Furious for going in a straight line, not for taking corners at high speed.
@@nikisepps but imagine a collaboration between Toyota and Porsche? Two huge juggernauts of the automotive world. I could see it if both companies have their eye on a piece of the other's tech
That fake engine noise is SO irritating on video. I just can't imagine what product manager OKed this. Ugh.
The cynical upside: Making realistic engine sounds in video games has become so much easier.
@@Dowlphin Don't they actually record engines these days and then modulate them based on the RPM? I think they do a better job than fake engine noise LOL.
@@Vicobop It would take a lot more than that simple technique to get it right, although the brunt of it would be that.
What I meant, of course, is that if driving the actual real-world car sounds like a shitty 90s video game, then it's easy to recreate that.
It will be interesting to see how well the soon-to-arrive Nissan Z, which will have a manual option paired to their highest HP-rated engine, stacks up to Toyota’s Supra proposition. Can’t wait for the comparison.
I think the Supra will look a lot more appealing compared to the Z once Toyota reveals the model with manual transmission. Until then, I consider the Supra's thunder well and truly stolen.
And the manual isn’t an option, it’s standard.
The 400Z is a 370Z with a power bump, that's it. It's a parts bin special with a chassis from the stone age. I daily drove a 370Z for 60K miles. It was outdated back in 2010 when I bought it. I will be truly shocked if the reviews of the 400Z say it's much more than that. Just my opinion, and I want to be wrong, I want the 400Z to be a revival for Nissan sports cars... but I don't see how it can when so much of it is carryover ancient Nissan hardware.
@@nategjesdal4405 I was thinking about the same thing. I DO NOT hate 370Z or upcoming 400Z, but it`s an upgrade of an ancient car so I`m not sure if it can compete in the same game as Supra, which is a relatively new BMW-based vehicle that focuses on the racing performance. Yes, only 20% of the 400Z`s components are exactly the same as the previous model but it`s still based on the exact same platform.
I personally think that those two cars have slightly different design intent so it finally comes down to the customer`s preferences. Supra is a sports car that`s meant to be raced while 400Z is a GT car with tons of horsepowers that can come with manual.
@@nategjesdal4405 Carryover stuff doesn't bother me at all as long as what's being carried over is reliable and high-performance. My butt dyno can't tell how old the architecture is, especially when I'm having fun and the touch points aren't 90s GM quality.
Sippin coffee and watching Jack talk about the Zupras door cards, life is good.
2:04 iN thE WInDow
niice
Can you pull some strings and feature a GR Yaris? Maybe start the fire under Toyota to get that vehicle over here?
Yawn
GR Corolla will be out in NA iirc
They can try going to Mexico; Doug DeMuro is apparently going there to review a GR Yaris. Or Canada, because I’ve heard that their government is considering to allow EU-spec cars.
$50K is still a lot of money
It is and it isn’t in today’s hyper-inflated market.
Add inflation to the fact I live in NYC.. $50k is like change here nowadays
Mk4 Supra was 40k 30 years ago...so like 70k in today's dollars.
It's approx. $95k (GT) or up to $105k (GTS) in Australia
The median price for a new car is just under $40k. 25% over that really isn't all that expensive unless you simply can't afford a new car, or just the very cheapest ones. A good percentage of the population (me included) could afford this. I won't be buying one because we have only one garage space, and because it's just ugly. I hate those rolls of fat that run along the sides and over the rear wheels. They look like they were styled with an ice cream scoop. The faux-F1 front end was already a cluché a decade ago. Toyota really needs better stylists.
I think the B58 engine is one of the greatest engines of our time......which is why I wanna just drop one with a manual trans into a used GR86 chassis. That's basically the Supra we deserve. I own a JDM MkIV / JZA80 Supra and I'll never sell it, but I'm still glad the A90 exists.
I own the BMW Z4 M40i and absolutely love it. It’s fast as hell, convertible and fun to drive. Wish it had a manual but the auto is so good.
We do not have the same definition of "Fast"
@@UndeadFleshgod 😂. I guess we don’t.
Same here with a m40i and I’ve raced a few mustangs and vettes and one Supra and all practically even runs and I’m talking half car links at most. Hell it’s even hard half the time to get someone to try me from a stop light
When the GR Supra came out, it was almost all alone. Now it’s got plenty of healthy competition; we are in great time to be experiencing these sports cars (markups aside).
just a shame they all got OPF
Like what? C8 is way better but 15k higher with z51.
@@hazardeur it's not mandatory in the US isn't it? There's probably already an aftermarket exhaust without one already
@@thatcopenguy i don't think it is (yet) in the US and I'm jealous of you guys in that departement. You should enjoy every bit of it while you can.
9:12 there is some black screen for a couple secs and by 9:40
I'll probably be in the market for a sports car in 2023. While I like the new Supra. Some of the soul is lost by having the BMW partnership. The Z, while still using the older architecture (I view it as a plus), it was made in house and the manual being standard sells it for me. I don't track cars and I'm too old to race around on the streets. I just want to shuffle through the gears and have a quick car to enjoy.
GR86 is more up your alley. Subaru and Toyota are both Fuji Heavy Industries companies. At least the car is 100% Japanese.
The percentage of owners tracking their sport cars, including the Supra is very small anyway. The Z checks off more boxes than the Supra.
@@9unslin9er I’m planning on getting a GR86, reviews are extremely positive so far. I’m glad the new Z comes with the manual, but it feels like an uglier 370Z with a new engine, for $45k if you want a proper diff
My mid 80s Supra stick was really bad at losing the back end. Slid off the interstate one day with kids in the rear. Sounds like the same DNA
Got a buddy whose dad bought him a 1990 turbo Supra - it didn't last a week before he wrecked it.
No back seats in this one
The late 80s Celica Supras were nothing more than Celicas with a bigger motor and Toyota is just not great at building sports cars. They never built a good sports car that beat the Nissans or Hondas in their own country.
@@Vision33r LOL! that's the most inaccurate and ignorant statement any toyota hater ever made. LMAO!!
@@whodat9198 except that he's correct ? They were literally just Celicas with elongated hoods and I6s
Love the comparisons made and how you guys got more into the philosophy behind this car and how it just stacks up. I feel like I have such a fundamental understanding coming here than any other channel.
it's because these guys are approaching it like a professional journalist would and most others are just some schmocks with a cam
I’m glad Toyota, BMW, Chevy, Porsche still make enthusiast cars for us. My preference is for the 718. No goofy styling, no weird interior ergonomics. It is so ridiculously easy to drive quickly, so satisfying to cover ground and rail around corners, that I have forgiven Porsche for the 4 cylinder engine. There really is no substitute.
I have been driving with a90 supra over 13tkm and i love it. Nice power with little mods and tune.
Hell yeah, a new SG video is just what I was in the mood for on a slow work friday afternoon coming back from lunch!
The Supra is fantastic but for the money I’ll go for an M2 competition. The Supra is tiny inside.
@@cowmath77 2.5x the price?? Where are you getting that from lol
I had an A90, sold it for a regular OG M2 in Manual, couldn't be happier. More practical, though not as fast, but much nicer to live with, and I can drive in Sport Mode all day and not wake up my neighbors.
@@cowmath77 You can no longer buy a regular M2, hence why I said competition. It starts around 60 k. My buddy just bought a Supra 3.0 for 57 k out the door so still really not sure what you’re talking about. I’m not talking about the Supra 2.0; even if I was it’s still not 2 times the price. So you’re wrong either way.
@@cowmath77 MSRP on his supra was 57k, basically every option, although there aren’t many. M2 comp is realistically a bit more than that but it’s absolutely worth around 5k more imo. Yeah the CS is way different than a 3.0 Supra price wise lol.
@@cowmath77 A $25k 135i with 550hp isn't what I'd call reliable or a steal. Great cars but IMO a mild tune with lots of basic maintenance is where they shine.
Yes, I do rear-slides every day on the way to work.. It always amazed me when I listen to these young kids reviewing cars. By the way, we are all racers, it is just those officers with radars who spoil the fun.
Can’t go to a NASA event without seeing several of these on Track. Great looking cars and seem to be decent on Track. When is the C6 Z06 Re-visit video coming out?
Between the fake aero, and the sperm trail headlights it's pretty overrated.
I work with American Endurance Racing and seeing them run multiple 8 hour sessions in a weekend is impressive. They are fast too!
@@svn5994 sperm trail headlights WOW
Goal is fall/ late summer
@@svn5994 Whos overrating a car that is almost universally joked about cause of how it was made? If anything its slightly cause underrated people just say they don't like BMWs and then immediately bring up the Corvette that needs $10k in options to actually handle like a sports car and not a Sunday driver for retirees.
Whenever you guys say it has an identity crisis I don’t know what you mean because whenever I’m in the supra, I can tear through back roads and curvy corners with complete ease and still have full control over the vehicle. Then again, I also haven’t bought it to a track.
I have heard that the Supra needs an alignment upon delivery to factory specs. They give it some kind of ‘no rear camber, no rear toe’ alignment during shipping that makes it really unpredictable to drive.
Several sources have said after an alignment to factory specs, it was rock solid
That’s interesting. I haven’t heard this. I just brought mine in for an alignment after installing HKS Hipermax adjustable springs. I’m due for a track day in September. I’ll revisit these comments.👍🏾
@@Peaceable75 do, please! I’ve been wondering how those HKS springs feel
@@Peaceable75 also, I have heard some dealers go ahead and do the alignment when they receive it. My friend, for instance got one that did have the alignment. You can tell because there is visible rear camber.
He also says he has no idea what this rear instability is, that people are speaking of, haha
@@aisu8481 I sure will. This car is excellent in every way. Extremely entertaining. There is an abundance of extra “tweekability” being that it’s of BMW/ Toyota lineage. After you spend some time with it I’m glad I didn’t buy the 60-65k C8. If I put $700 into a piggyback, $400 into a downpipe, and $300-$500 into a tune, it’s a mid to high 10 sec car.
@@Peaceable75 those thoughts resonated by almost every other owner I’ve met. It’s an incredible value for its potential. The new Z is getting a lot of hype, but it takes a lot more than specs to be what the A90 is.
I don't really think these photograph well, but every time I see one in person I become more of a fan.
The thicc rear fenders are really prominent and nice in person. So much more of a dramatic shape than the 86 and Z
This car segment needs manual transmission. They aren't super fast that it's uncontrollable with a manual. But if they are gonna use tall ratios then might as well leave it automatic. Cayman GTS 4.0 manual is pointless on the street.
Ikr, the manual transmission in the some of the Porsches are geared so long it's as if the engineers only have 4 forward gears to work with lol.
You’re forgetting that about 90% of people, especially those that can afford, do not track.
@@aaronbryan5095 They feel like there is no incentive to develop the transmission for the street as well. Cars are designed to be too fast to these days.
@@jeffcheng5058 Yeah. Any street legal car would find itself on the streets mostly regardless of how good it is as a track car. So say some rich dude who doesn't track a GTS 4.0 Cayman wants to enjoy it on the road. The next thing is being pulled over for going over the speed limit in 2nd gear.
Agreed. Porsche feeds the Autobahn fantasies of their buyers, who end up with a bunch of useless gears.
It should have the Lexus LFA engine. Actually Toyota should put that engine into everything.
That engine costs 125k USD ;-)
@@ghostridertom Well it wouldn't cost nearly as much if they mass produced it. The development work has been done already.
This had to have an R6, dude, otherwise it would have been even less Supra.
On the other hand, it's paired with fake engine noise to get the familiar sound (badly approximated).
@@Tiax776 125k was a price that was heavily subsidised :D Internals and the v10 itself is insane. Impossible to mass produce at all :-) 2UR-GSE is mass produced V8 and still 40k+ USD new from dealership.
Yes, lets put a V10 in a car known for being a flat 6 and then double the price so even fewer people will buy it... brilliant idea.
I really love the way this Toyota looks. I really do. And I am a Supra fan because of the Castrol Supra GT racing car that for many years was the hero car of Gran Turismo, specifically GT 1. Never saw the F&F movies so I never...grew into that Toyota history fan base.
Is it more BMW? Sure...I guess...but it has Toyota DNA, and the look is just amazing. BMW driving style? That sounds good. I like M cars and was really wanting an M2 before this came out.
I'm holding off for just a bit longer to see what refinements get made in the later versions, but mark my words, this is going to be one of my forever cars.
Oddly enough the manual...I dunno. I've never been good with a manual when I'm off the track. They take a lot of work and I grind gears on occasion when in traffic. I guess that means I'm just a bad driver (I have no car friends, just my wife who politely smiles when I talk about cars), and so for crawling in traffic or when trying to avoid feeling like I'm hurting a 50K product by being bad at driving, I feel I will still go with the Z8.
I guess I'm the driver everyone hates. ... sorry ...
(LOOKING FORWARD TO TOYOTA DEVELOPING HYDROGEN ICE FURTHER...who know...maybe a Hydrogen I6 is in the MK6s future?)
I hate evs.
I like your honesty my dude. I'm more a cruiser, so if given the chance and the money, I'd choose the zf auto in a supra, even if Toyota offered a manual option in the future.
All I needed to know was that Toyota was involved in the research for making the engine more reliable. I’m sold.
I hope you come back to this car after the new wave of JDM cars are released, ie. 400Z and Integra. We're entering another golden age of japanese sports cars
I don't think it's another golden age, there's not enough affordable sporty JDM cars. I think of it more like a last hurrah for JDM cars.this is the last generation of ICE engines.
You talk about how the GR86 didn't get much pushback because it didn't have a connection to history. I think the more appropriate reason is that people in the US didn't identify with the AE86 and all its history, that was pretty much a japan exclusive. Meanwhile the Supra resonates with everyone in the US largely because of its prevalence in culture.
Totally. I didn't even know of AE86 until a few weeks ago!
the zn6 was called the 86 in some or all of europe too. but yea in the US they did the right thing and used the scion brand so it was all a new idea to US buyers. i dont think its an "86" revival at all anyway. its more of a celica if anything (fefore celica was turned into fwd)
The 86 is more a spiritual successor than the Supra. Yeah it's a Subaru motor but it's still Japanese and Toyota had more input in it.
The Supra is 90% BMW. I mean they couldn't even bother giving it unique door chimes l
The most recent US Yaris was a Mazda 2 and nobody cried about it.
@@benbunch4159 because who cares about the pedigree of a yaris lol
I like it 🤷🏻♂️ , regardless who keeps turning the lights out ? 😂
Savagegeese are really going dark these days.
They could actually have put a caption there: "Subscribe to help us pay the electricity bill."
The entire Supra architecture feels like a mistake after the new Toyota/Subie 86/BRZ.
The biggest mistake was not offering it with a manual. The other problems I might have lived with. Not shifting my own gears was a deal breaker.
Well thats what happens when you have other people build your cars.
@@FXIIBeaver yep, it kills me too because I like Toyota. I have a newish manual Tacoma and it’s great. I know they can make good stuff on their own.
It’s be slower with a manual, manufactures are chasing 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. These new auto trans put in serious work.
@@CarStory maybe for show offer manual. How many ppl actually buy a manual new? Thats the issue
I really likes the looks of this car. It's all the tech that scares me about having a car like this long term. I guess I'm just turning into an old man! Haha
No, you're concern is merited. In ten years it will be a technological nightmare to fix and hence, a shit box.
@@Gorilla_Jones your biggest concern should be that it’s a bmw in general, not just the tech. I know Toyota said they ripped apart the engine to make sure it was up to their durability standards, but there’s just so much that bmw fails at overtime with reliability.
@@Gorilla_Jones nonsense.
You are not alone.
@@89Heke LOL you're delusional. Good luck finding those custom LCD panels. That's the tip of the iceberg.
Video goes black at the 9 minute mark for me. Anyone else having this happen to them?
Yup comes back in about 20-30 seconds
Any early reports on the GR Supra reliability?
Oil burning and random throttle hesitation/power loss issues. Both have yet to be addressed by Toyota/BMW.
The timing chain is on the back, two cooling systems, plastic everywhere. It looks just as bad as a mid engine Corvette for guys ar home with jackstands.
From someone who actually owns a Supra and daily drives it I can tell you that it’s very reliable. I am almost at 10k miles and have yet to have an issue .
@@GT-RTData9 Yikes 😬
This video is actually pretty good from a tech certified to work on this car. th-cam.com/video/rc2qgbbRDmk/w-d-xo.html
Still happy with my 2020. I got it for 20cad less. Nothing could’ve beaten it for the price ingot it at.
but how
@@veryrare7647 right beginning of covid, just stacking incentives(new car, new customer, etc etc) from dealership
@@Takonic good move, enjoy the car!
@@Takonic I remember they were discounting these down to the 40s
Evolution in the suspension is exactly right. A bit softer at the rear end, a manual from the M2 CS and this will be awesome.
BMW's manuals are horrible to drive. Would rather Toyota beef up the one in the GR86 (also i've driven the M2 CS with the stick, which is why i say this)
@@Nick-qx1vf I have a feeling BMW won't allow that.
@@gwot Im fairly certain what Toyota does with the Supra is no longer up to BMW since the co-development phase is over. Example: remember how toyota advertised the supra only has "335 horsepower" the first year to protect the Z4 and then very next Toyota "bumped it" to 380ish--that was all Toyota, not BMW (this is a good thing, by the way, I think Toyota should go nuts with the Supra now).
@@Nick-qx1vf The co-development phase was over since the first quarter of development because of German law prohibiting full beginning to end development with foreign companies. So they pretty much only decided which BMW part is going in the car, then split ways. But I have a feeling they have a contract and that Toyota doesn't have free rein. I'd love to be proven wrong, it'd be nice for the Supra to depart from a full BMW.
Just that you said mid-range-frequency....the level of attention to detail is bar none. Thank you, happy you guys found this niche to work with
The editing on this one was a little confusing. On the track, you were calling the rear end playful and fun, but in the final thoughts it is annoying or dangerous? I personally agree with the latter, but again just a little odd.
I think the difference is it's playful on the track but it bothersome on the street. Specifically because the rear in breaks loose during normal driving.
The way you described the back end just starts to walk remind me my old '79 Rx-7 but with only 101hp there was no drama .
It will be interesting to see how this car ultimately stacks up against the Nissan Z, which IMHO will be as close to a direct competitor as we'll see on the market.
I already decided on the new Z but it will be fun to see comparison vids from the likes of Straight Pipes!
I completely agree with your comment.
I’m obviously in the minority here but nothing about the Z is attractive to me…
@@jeffcheng5058 same !!!! I felt like I'm the only person that thought the new z is ugly as sin. It's cool it's twin turbo and manual but that's it.
@@jeffcheng5058 i feel the same way about the Zupra.
I just bought a 2021 Toyota supra for my son and the only problem with the car is that it’s very hard to drive the speed limit very fun car to drive
I loved the Mark IV Supra when it came out. It didn't sell because it was too expensive. Toyota has more than enough money to build one from the ground up. If they did, and charged $65k+ for it, which they would, it wouldn't sell because it's too expensive. So put a Supra badge on a BMW and upset people, or build one from scratch, charge a ton for it, and upset people.
The mk4 was about 80k in today’s money considering inflation. A 60k 80k price would have been justified with performance to back it up. All they had to do was beat the GT350 and 1LE Camaro
@@AntilleanConfederation except it's main competitor for the gr supra was a cayman not a camero
@@DAddy-iy9mu not the GT4. I can promise you that.
I love this Supra even though it's based off a BMW Z4, I actually think this will be the most reliable BMW product in a very long time. I've been wondering whether to get an Accord Touring 2.0t, next gen Civic SI, or a Supra 3.0 premium.
I had a 20 Supra (had issues and recalls) traded it in for an accord 2.0T (2021). The accord can do 0 - 60 at muster over 5 seconds and is way more practical. That being said, I miss the Supra every, as the sound and shifts when driving it hard is such an event. If I could get a good deal on a 21+ Supra, I would go back. What they are saying about the back end is true, so make sure you get good tires and be mindful of it. Safest straight line, whereas need a little more attention when cornering hard. Supra gets more attention, but loads of awesome mods for accord, as such V4 tail lights and Ktuner / hondata flash.
This would be perfect with a manual. The only car that actually needs some manual transmission and Toyota refuses to sell one😭
I feel like that will be coming at some point as a limited edition.
@@Tool0GT92 they'll screw it up by only offering the manual with the 4cyl, not with the 6, smh.
Big wing and a manual with functional vents.
I wouldn't be surprised if BMW didn't let them have their manual. Lol
I am actually glad that the Supra is part BMW. It give a outside company a different perspective of the engineering of the Supra. Building a car with different parts from two of the best car companies today mostly BMW ( parts ). The tuning of the Supra is definitely Toyota or I will say the minds or engineering minds of Toyota ( handling ) and body. I would say M car but there is a hint of FRS and BRZ handling in the new Supra.
In all honesty, the GR 86 actually looks like a lot more fun for a lot less money - not to mention that the design of the 86 looks better than the Supra in my opinion (and yes, I've seen the Supra in person).The first thing I noticed when glancing at the interior of this GR Supra was the automatic transmission. I was thinking they might finally stick a manual in this thing. I realize that automatics offer better performance these days, but some of us just prefer driving a manual - it's really that simple. The best infotainment system in the world can never make up for this and I wish that such systems were optional as I'd choose to do without infotainment altogether were it possible.
LOL
A Texas based company is installing manuals since about 2020.
If we are taking most of your statement in consideration, the GT86 is not a toyota as well, it's a pure Subaru development from the engine, to the drive trains (the first gen atleast). The GT86 doesn't feel more Toyota than the Supra, it just feels like a nice rwd entry level sporty car with a lack of torque, but it doesn't drive or feel like the older Cellica or Supra. I haven't seen people complaining about all the supercar made of AMG V8 engines. For some reasons, I think all the people who are bitching about the Supra being a BMW are all those people who either can't afford the car or wouldn't have purchase one anyway because if Toyota had develop a Supra by their own with their own chassis, drive train + a brand new inline 6, it would have cost 20k more than the BMWish one.
In any case, great video as always :)
You are wrong here buddy. I own a Tacoma, a forester and a wrx Sti. You can definitely tell Toyota is Subaru parent company. Some of the materials are the same, they feel similar and build quality is almost identical. Subaru reliability has increased quite a bit too.
@@AntilleanConfederation And you are wrong here as well : I am not speaking about their build quality/design or reliability but about the handling.
@@Rob.One. fair point lol
Can't wait for you guys to review the manual version
Should have the LFA V10 engine........ 🤪
Also should have LFA V10 engine as option in the GR86.
I would buy. No fake engine sounds from the speakers needed.
Yeah, you wish.
I wish too.
fake engine sounds from the speakers should be Banned from any true sports car..who the hell actually Wants That noise? at least have an option to switch it Off
@@skip741x3 it’s a way engineers gets around noise regulations
@@MaddNomad1015 well, it's not a good way
Doubt its really noise regulations, more like by the time you add 5 catalytic converters and deaden the interior enough so people dont complain about cabin noise then it just sounds like a vacuum cleaner.
Having driven a slightly modified one around for a few days on the street I can attest it is blazingly fast in a straight line. But I found horribly annoying the constant gear shifting of the transmission. Not a car I would purchase, but it was fun to test out.
As a Supra owner for a little over a year I love my car just as much as the first day I got it. As far as the unpredictable rear, mine doesn't seem to have that issue even on track (though I'm nowhere near as experienced as Mark) but I've heard from owner forums that this issue doesn't seem to happen with every car for some reason, so maybe it is an alignment thing.
Either way, as Mark said, for the money (I paid $48k for a 20' premium) it's a spectacular car. No it's not a C8, but that's as fair a comparison as putting the supra up against a GR86 when you factor in price. And who really knows how the Z will drive, we'll find out soon and can start comparing then.
Glad you liked your Supra. I got bored of mines after three months and sold it after six months.
@@mrjjthor what did you replace it with out of curiosity?
@@brandonjames1606 I also had a Camaro zl1 1le at the time and to be honest that car kind of ruined it for the Supra. After a few months I lost interest and I sold it. I used the money to buy a used Prius for commute and invested the rest.
@@mrjjthor gotcha. I have a budy with a ZL1 that he tracks all the time. Bad ass car for sure
Hey Savagegeese, I've been watching your videos for years now without subscribing.
Deal with it.
Savage
As an owner of a Supra 3.0, I can definitively all the negative reactions of this car from TH-cam car reviews was so far from what the reality is. People come up to comment how much they love this car literally everyday I drive it. So many times random people while driving have given me thumbs up or other positive gestures towards the car. People love this thing.
As far as performance, this things is so much fun! It's incredibly fast and quick. It makes any red light, highway ramp, or twisty road so much fun. On top of all that, it's still fairly rare to see and 6 months into ownership, so far reliable. Toyota/BMW hit this one out of the park.
Got one too. Seems that the hate exist online only, in person everyone love it.
@@0Camus0 how often do haters come up to you and say they hate something? Almost never.
The hate definitely exists online and offline, i think the car is lame. Am i going to go out of my way to tell an owner that? No because im not an asshole and don't care, its your money.
I personally would buy a porsche cayman
@@sunburst8810 Well, everwhere I go, people give the thumbs up, all the time, it's sometimes awkward, so far the response has been positive. If people don't like the car, that's fine, I bought for me, not for them.
The car I would go next is the 992 S manual.
@@sunburst8810 I have someone give me a thumbs up when I'm stopped or people going out of their way to drive up next to me to give me a thumbs up literally every single time I drive my Supra. I doubt there are really that many equivalent haters out there. Also, people who do dislike this car do say it. They have something to say that in their minds doesn't come across as bitchy - "hey nice BMW." I actually own this car. The love this car gets in the real world is insane. The performance is insane.
As far as what you'd personally buy, well then go and do it but I promise you if you were actually serious about buying a sports car and it was your own money at stake, you'd spend the $50K for Supra vs $100K for the equivalent Cayman. There really is no competition unless if you have $100K to spend on a car. Which at that point, you're at a whole another tier than trying to buy a Supra.
I like the 86 because it also has some Toyota parts on it like the fuel injection system, the rear diff, and the transmission.
Technically is all Toyota. Toyota owns Subaru
I am definitely getting the new GR86/BRZ but that new Z looks fantastic.
Is the B58 is the Supra actually different than in a BMW? Like did they change some key components or is the B58 generally a reliable engine?
I'm a huge fan of this car. I love how exotic it looks for the price, and I'm actually VERY glad that they didn't pair that opulence/ character with a Toyota interior fitting of the rest of the lineup. This car doesn't deserve the interior of a Camry or a Highlander. And I think it's way better for it that they took BMW's tech for this.
Can’t wait for the comparison between the supra and the new Nissan Z. I think people will be surprised how good the supra really is when put into perspective by a direct rival.
The Z is so overhyped by all the Nissan fanboys that are present in almost every part of the internet, and they get so butthurt when you make them realise that the car they're jerking off to isn't really as amazing as the think.
It'll be interesting to see how the new Z compares to this, Hiroshi Tamura described it as a "Dance Partner". A more driver focused and less about numbers car.
It’s literally a 370 Z with more power and some suspension tweaks.
@@MaddNomad1015 have you driven it to claim that?
@@MaddNomad1015 Honestly that's all the 370Z needed, but they've done a lot more than just that. We won't really know what else they've done to the chassis and underpinnings of the car, but considering engineers obsess over little things, probably a lot has been done.
@@mistamaog 370Z needs a lot of work to be reliable track car, overheating everywhere
@@MaddNomad1015 Stop using the word "literally" when you're being the opposite of literal! You're being hyperbolic here. If you literally believe what you said is literally true, then just look up some videos. It had fancier interior, digital only dashboard (I want real dials!), a fancy clutch, looks good (the 370 looked too short for its width, and just weird). Do you want me to continue?
If Toyota R&D'd and created the engine themselves, it would cost way more, probably GTR territory. This was geared towards the enthusiasts and the aftermarket. Partnering with BMW made sense. They make some of the best inline 6 turbos. I mean they didn't partner with Hyundai, Kia, or even Subaru. Imagine that. It could have been worse 🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️
Can't wait until you guys get your hands on the new Nissan Z.
Raising questions about why the video went blank for certain sections
Come on Toyota, lets not BS ourselves. We know you use a Twin Turbo V6 in the LS500 so that's not really an excuse.
A V6 is not a I6
@@matthewp9015 so even the gtr also is now v6 they don’t need to use excuse
Great video as always guys but you might want to reupload with a fixed Driving Impressions. Lots of missing footage.
Appreciate the review, I thought it was ok when it first came out until I saw it in person. Cross my fingers for a manual.
I've never gone down a rabbit hole of video searches where I've become less and less enthused about a car as I have with the Supra. I test drove a 3.0 and 2.0 back to back about the same time this video came out and found I loved the feel of the 2.0 liter much more than the 6 cylinder, but the 2.0 doesn't feel quite like it's justified in price and feels like a BMW from the way it drives, looks inside, and let's be honest, I would have to modify the car to appreciate it, which defeats the purpose of buying it in the first place. I've loved my 2018 Civic Si and have over 70,000 miles around the country and on racetracks, and that's what I so badly wanted the Supra to be like but with more power and rwd characteristics but I can't bring myself to emotionally want the car enough to buy it since at its core it's a BMW. I really hope a manual comes out within the next couple of years, otherwise I'm probably going to get an electric car as my new daily since the market isn't offering any decent sports cars any longer. (NO FAKE ENGINE NOISE!!!!!! STOP BEING A THING!!!!)
The rear suspension reacts that way because it's alignment changes drastically in bump/compression. This is caused by having lower connecting points for the connecting arms in the chassis due to the z4 roof convertible roof taking the place up above the rear axle in the chassis. You can add an aftermarket rear subframe from germany that has corrected the problem, but have to cut into the chassis for the install.
These two are both so contained. Weird. I love it.
Having so much fun with my Supra don’t know why I watch videos of other peoples opinions. I will say that putting an exhaust on changed the profile a lot and the car is now much more engaging. Side note: screen goes black on track a couple times on the track footage
Do you experience the rear end snap that they’re complaining about too?
@@topzki47 never experienced or heard of it from other drivers either. Maybe it’s only a problem when drifting, which wouldn’t apply to me since I dont drift my car
If I was going to buy a sports car, I’d need to stay within a $30K to $40K range, so although I’d love to have a Supra, I’d probably opt for a Miata or a GR86. That said, any mention of a Cayman or LC500 is out of the question. The LC500 starts at $93K and the Cayman can top out over $143K, so I really wonder why you’d compare them for the person interested in a Supra. Love your show, as always.
Is Toyota's Subaru a better all around buy than Toyota's BMW? 🤔
No, different beasts. The Supra is a GT sports car while the BRZ/86 are lightweight sports car.
Sub/Toy is enjoyable without the performance.
Yes, Toyota owns Subaru after all.
No doubt the Supra is cool. But I'm waiting for the IS500 😎
Maybe I'm remember it wrong but didn't Lexus make a new platform for the LC500? It might be bigger but so was the concept that everybody loved and engine wise I think people would be ok with a tuned and capable V6, I personally don't remember people complaining about the R35 on that regard, all the reasons they gave feels disingenuous to me
Nah people complained. One the initial hype of the US finally getting one died off, people complained that it wasn't an inline 6 then complained about it not having a manual. A lot of that noise died off once people got to see what it could do and the competition eventually went the same route, but there's still a loud minority complaining about it 15 years later.
@@steadyboost7 thanks for letting me know, I genuinely don't remember the negative reactions about the R35 at the time
Everyone complained the GTR sounded awful and like a vacuum cleaner because of the V6 when it came out
@@bfife22 it really had that vacuum cleaner swoosh sound haha thank god for aftermarket parts, looks like the new Z will be the same
The LC shares its platform with the LS, Mirai, and Crown.
What's going on with the random "blackout" screen?
I have owned this car since Sept 2020. This is my very first Asian car and I am certain that had it been a pure Toyota product, there is no way I'd even look at it. Contrary to Mark's take on the lack of Toyotaness, I feel I got a great BMW with Toyota reliability and practicality.
That it handles as brilliantly as it does is an added bonus. This car does not make you a better driver, rather, it makes you aware of your deficiencies and your need to learn the car and adapt to it. Not easily done but once you get it, this car is very satisfying and a joy to drive at any speed.
As an aside, my Supra replaced a 997 Carrera S PDK.
the bmw lack of reliability will start to pop up in the next year.
Great idea for a video and getting in depth with the GR Supra. Interesting to hear about the twitchy handling. I did not get side ways enough in my test drive of GR Supra to experience that, but will be prepared for it to feel different when I get one against my 2017 GT86.
if you work in corporate world, GR product lines make a perfect sense. Lower risk, added brand-ability, more revenue, more sales volume, meeting the pure car enthusiast needs, focusing on selective R&D, dedicate efforts on post-production configuration.
Increasing number of companies opt out of end-to-end development and turn into lego builder i.e. buy A B C 1 2 3 and integrate them to their taste. The ultimate goal of this strategy is to buy finished products, give a final touch, and sell them.
Nice, I love the original driving impressions part from the gloves box
I'm no car journalist but I'm definitely an enthusiast. Once its automatic or paddle shift I've already lost interest. The 400z is already a better car just because its more engaging. The Supra is a beautiful car and I'm sure it performs well but Toyota and BMW made a mistake not offering a manual transmission option.
Its not a toyota product? What is a toyota product? A corolla? A 4runner? A rav 4? Toyota is a different company than it was 30 years ago. Glad to see Toyota understands their strengths and weaknesses, and gave us a car that fits the supra space in the 2020s.