80k and needing a rebuild. I'd be unbelievably pissed if I spent 20k+ on a bike and it crapped out at that low mileage. Great video though. Liked the step by step disassembly.
Alot of guys tear them down way before 50k. The heat kills everything. They should have fans on them. I have a 2012 streetglide with nearly 70k. Replaced everything in the cam chest at 56k. Put in nice cams and now has 98.7 h.p. and 116 ftlbs of tourque. What a jump in power. Top end was not touched. Still doesn't use much oil. Maybe 1/2 quart between 3k oci
Because no one needs cable TV since the internet exists for convenient viewing at any time. Cable TV has zero advantage since it's target is people who don't know how to use a computer therefore aren't smart enough to spin a wrench. Cable means doing things someone elses way. Anyone who wants to watch video on their widescreen TV can effortlessly do so.
I’ve been dealing with HD’s since the 1970’s … Panheads , shovel heads , etc . This is probably the MOST - well worded , awesome, and detailed presentation I’ve EVER SEEN !!! Thanks - I’m a subscriber now !
because HD is mostly disconnected with their base customers and have joined the Big Global Woke movement they won't..but if they were smart they would hire this man
Your videos are always really good Kevin. Thanks. I have an 03, 1200 Sporty with 75K miles on it and a 2012 Dyna Superglide with 112K miles on it. Miles I put on the bikes. Both run like sewing machines. Never a wrench to the motor on either bike. I watch 2LaneLife alot. Those guys run M8's and run pretty hard. 85mph plus on Interstates. Ride 2-up and lots of luggage. Their bikes do very well. I'm impressed.
Things are not what they used to be .006" runout on older bikes would be criminal.i think harley say up to +.012" is acceptable.If someone with a shovel pan knuckle or flattie had that i would say they need new flywheels..Also 80 000 miles is not a long life from an engine if its well maintained and not beaten up on as this one certainly was not!!! Things are not what they used to be.Company went backwards in engines from end of evo era. Having said that the clientele that harley attracts now seem to have little respect for what is still an agricultural design.(Thats why we love em!)and 4 some reason think its fun to beat up on them.The big twin flatties in my opinion are the best bikes harley EVER made.Built even half decent they last near forever.
Cable is garbage by nature. TH-cam is fine. To make money on cable one has to pander to idiots/non-mechanics. Better to have videos wrenches can enjoy and everyone else can go fap to Kardashians or whatever.
Why cable TV? Can you not view the internet on your TV already? The internet is interactive and you can download TH-cam episodes for future reference at no cost. Cable TV is for people too old to use the internet and the last few of those won't be riding in five years.
This is my first time here and I'm really impressed with your show, the way you point things out and detail everything. I'm looking for another Harley but I haven't found one yet. I'm going to sub, leave a thumbs up, and a tap on the bell, I hope to get to know more about the great bikes. Thanks for sharing.
Im 67 been rebuilding various motorcycle engines all my life..would like you to continue a on this engine in detail an find sumise why this happened. I argue that careful assembly ,balance ,tuning and mantainence along with none abuse will give all round better service than adding after market parts. To me after market parts may attract short term performance gains but lack accountability and factory condition testing for longlivity.
Man l wish l was an apprentice working under yourself Kevin. I just learnt so much in 25 mins. Always enjoy watching you work. Greetings from Melbourne Australia 👍👍👍
Hope to see my high mileage Twin Cam made famous in a few years. I should have 150,000 miles by the end of next season. Then skunkity, skunk, skunk it!
I don't get it. I'd be mad as hell if my GL1800 needed to have the engine torn down at only 80,000 miles. But Harley owners seem to accept this as "normal". Why is this considered acceptable?
Awesome video. Just did a twin cam that seem to fit the same symptoms and found the same problems in the front cylinder and crank. Would love to work and learn in your shop. Your knowledge in these videos is really inspiring for this crazy Canuck.
This shows why Harley is going out of business. Why would you buy a bike that needs torn down with only 80,000 miles? I owned one Harley in my life, and this is why I won't own another one. You spend more time working on the thing than riding it. This is very poor quality. They didn't machine the m-8 properly to begin with and that was causing head gaskets to blow prematurely in 2017. Buy a Goldwing if you want 300,000 miles before tearing down. This is ridiculous and solidifies my decision to not own another one of these pieces of junk.
Thanks for the kool video Kevin…. I have 2019 114” Ultra Limited… only seven thousand miles because I work all the time… would love to have your shop install me a new oil pump etc… thanks again from Lincolnton North Carolina 👍
Greetings Kevin, I'm glad the videos are back, and I look forward to meeting you on Monday, August 16th. I just received a phone call from the shipper and my trike has arrived at your shop!
Hello Kevin, thank you for contacting me and checking the trike out. I do hope you can meet me at your shop on Monday the 16th to discuss the build (I have a lot to talk with you about!).
I have a Honda 02 750 spirit with 88,000 miles . It still runs good and I have always run it hard. It has been rejeted and runs 12.30 second quarter mile and gets 65 mpg.
Great video and good explanation. I don't understand why he keeps emphasizing that 80,000 miles is a lot of miles?? That's nothing for mileage. That's only 128,000km One of my bikes is a 1991 Goldwing GL1500 SE that has 240,000 km which is about 150,000 miles and I've done nothing to it. I haven't touched the motor, tranny or clutch. Only wearable items. I would be pissed if I bought a motorcycle and had to rebuild the motor at only 80,000 miles. IMHO, The motor and tranny on a motorcycle should last 300,000 miles or 500,000km before you even have to think of touching the motor or tranny. HD makes money selling a $45,000 touring bike in Canada and then rebuilding the motor every 3-4 years. Keep up the great videos
My xs 1100 1978 did 150 000 plus choper i also had a side car outfit 100 000 plus did rebore that i ran it from spain on 3cylinders not recomended uk biker
Lot of miles for Harley , not for Hondas, lmao he knows not to push it hard... horrible how disposable are Harleys. I work hard for my money and for me smart purchase is something that will last and to last has to be low maintenance , everything on a Harley is disposable from suspension to cooling to rear belt , but remember you guys know to not push it hard LOL , my respect to you for doing this video and been a realistic mechanic, now you Harleys remember not to pushed hard and 80000 miles is about it LMAO!. Got a friend with a Harley engine replacement just after 40000 miles and another one with clutch replacement just about 20000 miles ,i will never ever buy a Harley and they don't ride nice as some Hondas, actually can't even compared a newer goldwing or even a ctx1300, my dad been a mechanic will toll me if I loose my mind to purchase a disposable bike.
If Harley can't make a engine that will last beyond 80k miles they need to talk to Indian motorcycles and get a better idea of what it takes to make a longer lasting engine.
Harley does make engines that last longer than 80k miles. There aren't videos about those examples because it isn't interesting to hear someone say, "Yeah, it's fine." But I do agree that Indian makes a great bike. The American motorcycle industry needed a large, strong competitor to Harley.
Yeah, Polaris has a few oil burning issues with the very early Victories, but they were awesome. I hope they bring back the brand a but less OCC style.
Very nice job! I love that you don’t make us wait through bolt removal but high speed thru it. Comments and possibilities are simple direct and to the point!!
Great Video and info as always. Is that a 107 or 114? Did it run the original factory oil pump for 70,000 before upgrading? If so which of the four HD oil pumps was in it? I know to many questions.
I keep hearing the phrase "run too hot" in many of your videos. What is an example? 230,240,250 on oil temp or? I have a 2007 Heritage 28k miles, TC96 w/stage2 torque cam, V&H long shots, FI, Dynoed/tuned by ECM flash. My oil temp stays 220-230F during normal operation. Added man-o-war comp, Barnett 10 plate carbon clutch and Hayden tensioner (just finished today-wow is it smooth now). Thanks in advance!
Kevin I really enjoy your videos and thanks to you, I have learned a great deal about my own motor. If you are interested, I would like to see a video from you about riding practices that are good for the longevity of a Harley motor as well as those that might cause premature deterioration. This could include shifting rpms and how that can affect compensators; how cruising rpms affect engine heat and cylinder head pressures; fuel choices including ethanol and it's effects. With your knowledge and experience, I am certain that your comments would be very helpful to your subscribers.
@Thomas B While no bike engine is hard to work on the garbage timing chest nonsense (purely to facilitate semi-automated engine assembly, see factory videos) HD inflicted on customers was only to save the MoCo a few dollars in assembly labor. HD stopped being a "premium" quality engine when Evo ended (and those had their share of problems).
Agreed. With any vehicle I’m gonna put my money to get. I want reliability. Paying the Harley premium for probably the worst reliability out of any manufacturer just cannot be justified. Harley will fail eventually. It will catch up to them
@@ALEXdaG you can find $1000 1980s Goldwings on Craigslist ALL DAY with well in excess of 100000 miles that have never had a valve cover off. Just ridiculous that people spend this much money on something that breaks.
Top of the Pistion rod bearing and piston "pull" pin.- questions if the pistion slapped the bottom of the "jug" combustion chamber? Tight spot in the crankshaft rotation- uneven rotation bearings load is favored to one side of the crankcase with the roller bearing. Replace the crank bearing with sealed wheel bearing and drill a oil hole @12 0'clock postion to have even crankshaft rotation-under load The lifter rotation, lifter wear metal shavings or aluminum?- needs overboard & honed- lifter lockpin failed? The pistion to valve clearance is not in between 0.003"- 0.005" - gasket gap? 0.011"?
It looks like the hot spot on the cylinder was on the spark plug side. With a worn rod bearing the power stroke probably caused the piston to tilt sideways creating excessive friction and noise. 🤷♂️
What do you consider “running warm”? I average 295° when it’s 80° outside. I’m at 80,000 on my m8. Did 124 at 60.k. Typically getting 11oz out of crank position sensor at oil change. I have first gen S&S oil pump.
295 is ridiculously hot need to get some love jugs cool down the oil that oil temperature is hot even for synthetic oil you should take whatever measures it would need to reduce your oil temperature to be low 237 degrees 80000 MI between rebuilds is ridiculous
And an Italian vtwin would have a hard time making it to 50k. Not sure where you are going with the comment unless you are trying to trash talk harley's.
Thanks Kevin for this video and the great info as usual. My 17 M8 is just turning 37k miles. This guy was really doing some riding. It's awesome that he got 80k on his. Unfortunately, unable to make Sturgis, but will be heading west for work that week. Stay safe.
To everyone in the comments yes this guy is a good mechanic explains what’s going on very well but 80,000 miles is NOT a lot of miles Harley Davidson should be embarrassed by this
Hi Kevin, I’ve been missing you for a spell. I realize you have a lot work going on. I’m close to 79 years old and the intense heat is knocking me down a bit. Plus a very low heart rate in the 40’s and 50’s!! Take care of your health and be careful at Sturges👍🤠
80000 miles hopeless 😢 Should do way more way more miles before any issues Love my 96 ci twin cam My m8 107 ..no issues Love it too.... 😎 but it should last long time..
I don't know, seems like HD has made a turn back to the AMF days when quality didn't matter. I own 3 of them with the latest one costing almost 50K out the door. Now I have to worry about it blowing up because it seems like it wasn't designed correctly and tested thoroughly enough before the dealer accepted the 50K. Well, I guess they keep people who do care employed, like you, but damn! Thank God I have a lifetime power train warranty on it! Keep up the great work 👍
If you remember 99-2005 the twin am was having all sorts of problems as well. It happens with every new engine they put out. No different with the m8 sadly
You don't have to rebuild them. You can run them til they grenade. Everything is a wear item at some point. We are spoiled today with how long engines last. In the 70s by the time you paid off a vehicle in 4 years it was junk. Now they can easily last 20 years. I agree that harley could build them better. The heat issue is a big problem. My 12' came with a oil cooler so maybe that helped mine survive. I really want to put fans on the jugs. These summers are so hot and getting in traffic is a killer.
80k on a modern production engine with a knock is pretty poor reliability. I just sold a 76 Guzzi LeMans 1 with 140k miles and the lower end was perfect. One piston melted due to poor fueling but was the worst of it. Replaced one valve as it was bent. That’s it. This on a 45 year old bike.
@@DirtRidingLarry the LeMans was one of the fastest sport bike of its time. It was ridden as it should have been as I know the previous owner. Poor engineering is just that. I cant comment on the Harley usage as I don’t have the history but 80k miles on a modern engine is poor reliability. Also in the video it is mentioned the bike has been taken care of and not abused.
I agree. My BMW is approaching 100,000 miles and runs better than ever. The K1200 engine is known to run 200,000+ with ease. 80,000 is break-in mileage on a modern engine. Unfortunately, chooses to build their current engines using 100 year old designs. Putting two large air cooled cylinders one behind the other is a recipe to cook the rear cylinder just as we see here. That is an unfortunate design decision, but it is what Harley chose to do so Harley owners simply have to live with short engine life to get the look and feel they desire. That is their choice and I am fine with that, but I choose a modern liquid cooled engine that avoids these problems and will run 200 to 300,000 miles with ease. Different strokes for different folks.
How does that happen to a motor that was essentially babied - ridden in ideal conditions and maintained properly. 80k is honestly not a lot of miles...
What can I typically expect for *engine work* down the road with my stock M8 which I generally "baby" and always service at the dealership? _I bought this 2019 FLHR in February 2021 with 150 miles on it and now has 13k miles. I will easily ride 25k miles this year. Dealership says it will "go forever" if I take care of it._ Lol.
Hi Kevin hope your doing good, id like to know which oil this guy used and how many miles between changes. Rock on brother thanks for all the great videos.
Sorry to have missed the premier, but I had a hot date with the Mrs. Some questions: 1). Are you sporting a new uniform shirt? It looks like there are some breathing vents in there. Gotta be comfy in the GA humidity. 2). Who's the dashing fella @ 4:38? Is this his screen debut? Is he a new hire? 3) Is 80k really a lot of miles on this m8, given that the owner keeps up with maintenance & doesn't beat on it? I'm just trying to see if I need to manage my expectations. 4). Please put my parts in your freezer as they come in: I'd hate for them to spoil before we get around to the build...
Hot date comes first! 1. been sweating thru all my shirts in this heat wave. Still have the blue...just ran out of clean ones. LOL 2. New hire to help us in the back. Parts, general service, keeping the place clean, etc. 3. there are folks getting more miles out of them. its actually pretty rare to see a bike of any year with that many miles on it. the average ownership is 5 years, and avg mileage is 3300 annual. This is the highest mileage M8 I've seen in the shop. 4. LOL...the freezer is out of room, so are the shelves. Just glad to see things coming in finally. Thank you Joe!
I have a goldwing now after coming off a twin cam road king. Can’t compare these two engines. That goldwing will break 100 k miles with nothing other than oil changes! I do nothing on my goldwing but put gas money n the thing!
I want to see the cases split and the rods removed, the rod bearings and races themselves and the crank pin. Is there going to be a follow up and reassembly shown on this M8 V Twin engine? I'd suspect the engine has been run low on oil, excessive traffic slow riding/idling (think Myrtle Beach main drag traffic), or excessive rpms or a combo of several or all? Might be time for H-D to think about piston oil squirters? You need to check out the oil pump very good too.
maybe , ..the extra load from the shitty big end bearing coursing drag plus the piston slap,blow by and so motor getting hot so more fuel to help it run cooler
My Twin cam 103 is a great motor. 48-51 miles per gallon usually. If I ride easy I can get as much as 55 mpg. Enough power for me to do long rides in the hills.
Rebuilt an evo engine with 250 000 miles.Bores looked good over bored to +.005" oversize .Crank pin was fine but replaced it anyway Guides were fine Valves faced up fine .Customer had maintained it well and it showed! The rocker assemblies were as clean as a whistle.Outstanding really Have another friend here has over 600 000 miles on a 1989 FXR Its getting tired (no kidding) but still goes ok,Dont believe any twin cam or M8 will do this.
WOW, I HAVE 80K ON MY 2017 road glide special right now. haven't had any issues yet. I will be headed to Sturgis on my Road Glide S from Mobile, AL. hopefully I will meet you in sturgis to discuss my performance rebuild when she's ready! GREAT VIDEO!
@@DG-fm6ti im just seeing your question. I've used amsoil, super tech from walmart , valvoline and mobil 1(all synthetic). I don't dog my bike but will skin er back whenever the need arises..haha! I change every 5k and other 2 holes ever 10k. I do all my own services. I just changed my drivebelt which wasn't hard but it was timely being a first for me and saved me $1,300. Other than the belt breaking I haven't had one issue yet with my M8 (stage 1 with headers and dynojet tuner) I have 87k on it as we speak. I get about 24k miles off of a dunlop American elites. the front tire I know I have 42k miles on it because I didn't have to change it when I changed the back tire last time.
I don’t see why you would have to tear down an engine after 80k. I have a car and truck both with 80k and I have not them tore down. Either way it seems the new revolution max engine addressed all the M8 issues. What I have found that religious oil changes nearly eliminate any and all engine issues, some don’t do it but it cheap maintenance. I drop oil more than anyone and all my vehicles have high mileage with ZERO motor work.
80k, probably mostly highway miles, and rod failure? IMHO, shouldn't have happened. Imagine if this sort of thing happened in the automotive industry.........
THEY ARE AIR cooled engines and contrary to what most engineers and techs think,changing oil more often won't hurt a damn thing,many filters many quarts, no wear is the end game,most of my bikes go 128 k miles,i ride state to state and walking ain't crowded,change the oils
Im wondering if the after market oil pump overperformed the standard lubrication system..eg overode oil passage capacity with leakage at hot spots. This is a common phenomen in older 2 stroke designs. Con rod drillings being over pressurised excuding oil from piston gudgeons.
Kevin. Love your stuff. Just a query could the EITMS (back cylinder not firing) be a contributing factor to the issues regarding the condition of the front cylinder as during idle only the front cylinder is firing which may possibly be a factor as a result of a change in the balance of the motor? Food for thought. Warrick & Steve (From Down Under).
Hope this is an isolated case because many individuals are building M8’s with high torque numbers on stock cranks. This would definitely lead to short engine life. Great content, keep the videos coming.
Absolutely. Weekend mechanics throwing on 124-151 kits to the stock bottom end then complain about the quality of these engines. It's the same as the wheelie guys with the "bad" fork seals.
When engineers redesigned the pistons to eliminate the side skirts in line with the wrist pins they must have believed that the loading on the pistons was only front-to-back. Harley riders like to lug the engine to get that low end torque, but that just increases the combustion chamber pressure and increases the chances of detonation. Detonation is like a hammer blow to the piston and everything connected to it, like wrist pins and rod bearings. Repeated enough times, it will pound flat spots on rod bearing balls and increases clearances on wrist pins. When that happens the piston will wobble in the cylinder bore. Nothing good will come of this. Now... I put 50,000 miles on my 1200 Sportster in the first three years. It currently has 82,000 miles on it. Most of those were highway miles, with the rpm above 2000. My bike has a tach and I use my gears to keep the rpms above 2000, because below that number the engine will pound the rubber mounting when you try to accelerate. Depending upon how bad the rod bearing is at operating temperature, it could be freezing the engine and the momentum of the bike, transmitted through the drivetrain, breaks it loose again and again.
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80k and needing a rebuild. I'd be unbelievably pissed if I spent 20k+ on a bike and it crapped out at that low mileage. Great video though. Liked the step by step disassembly.
Alot of guys tear them down way before 50k. The heat kills everything. They should have fans on them. I have a 2012 streetglide with nearly 70k. Replaced everything in the cam chest at 56k. Put in nice cams and now has 98.7 h.p. and 116 ftlbs of tourque. What a jump in power. Top end was not touched. Still doesn't use much oil. Maybe 1/2 quart between 3k oci
Someone else said this and I concur - why doesn’t this dude have a cable tv channel? This was outstanding! Gonna be watching some more. KUDOS!
Ya Kevin needs to start the Speed Channel again and put his Baxters Garage twist on it....Saturday mornings,,,
Because no one needs cable TV since the internet exists for convenient viewing at any time. Cable TV has zero advantage since it's target is people who don't know how to use a computer therefore aren't smart enough to spin a wrench. Cable means doing things someone elses way. Anyone who wants to watch video on their widescreen TV can effortlessly do so.
I’ve been dealing with HD’s since the 1970’s …
Panheads , shovel heads , etc .
This is probably the MOST - well worded , awesome, and detailed presentation I’ve EVER SEEN !!!
Thanks - I’m a subscriber now !
because HD is mostly disconnected with their base customers and have joined the Big Global Woke movement they won't..but if they were smart they would hire this man
Your videos are always really good Kevin. Thanks. I have an 03, 1200 Sporty with 75K miles on it and a 2012 Dyna Superglide with 112K miles on it. Miles I put on the bikes. Both run like sewing machines. Never a wrench to the motor on either bike. I watch 2LaneLife alot. Those guys run M8's and run pretty hard. 85mph plus on Interstates. Ride 2-up and lots of luggage. Their bikes do very well. I'm impressed.
Glad your Dyna is happy. Mine is a '13 with only 45,000, hope I get at least your miles.
Great video! And I'm glad some folks just rebuild their engines at 80k and not selling the bike the get a new one.
I said exactly what you wrote before I seen it. Ive spent to much time and money on my bikes just to sell them for a new one every 4-5 years.
Things are not what they used to be .006" runout on older bikes would be criminal.i think harley say up to +.012" is acceptable.If someone with a shovel pan knuckle or flattie had that i would say they need new flywheels..Also 80 000 miles is not a long life from an engine if its well maintained and not beaten up on as this one certainly was not!!! Things are not what they used to be.Company went backwards in engines from end of evo era. Having said that the clientele that harley attracts now seem to have little respect for what is still an agricultural design.(Thats why we love em!)and 4 some reason think its fun to beat up on them.The big twin flatties in my opinion are the best bikes harley EVER made.Built even half decent they last near forever.
This man needs a cable tv series. Very well spoken and detailed,hell I wanna buy a few motors ant tear them down myself.
Why? His already on screen.
Cable is garbage by nature. TH-cam is fine. To make money on cable one has to pander to idiots/non-mechanics. Better to have videos wrenches can enjoy and everyone else can go fap to Kardashians or whatever.
Why cable TV? Can you not view the internet on your TV already? The internet is interactive and you can download TH-cam episodes for future reference at no cost.
Cable TV is for people too old to use the internet and the last few of those won't be riding in five years.
This is my first time here and I'm really impressed with your show, the way you point things out and detail everything. I'm looking for another Harley but I haven't found one yet. I'm going to sub, leave a thumbs up, and a tap on the bell, I hope to get to know more about the great bikes. Thanks for sharing.
80 k miles and the motor is trash? Ok if the bike was 10k but when there over 30k what a joke
Im 67 been rebuilding various motorcycle engines all my life..would like you
to continue a on this engine in detail an find sumise why this happened. I argue that careful assembly ,balance ,tuning and mantainence along with none abuse will give all round better service than adding after market parts. To me after market parts may attract short term performance gains but lack accountability and factory condition testing for longlivity.
Man l wish l was an apprentice working under yourself Kevin. I just learnt so much in 25 mins. Always enjoy watching you work. Greetings from Melbourne Australia 👍👍👍
Thanks Kevin! Have a safe trip.
thank you sir
Hope to see my high mileage Twin Cam made famous in a few years. I should have 150,000 miles by the end of next season. Then skunkity, skunk, skunk it!
I want to hear all about this bike. And I will surely be watching for the Skunkerize for sure.
What year Twin Cam??
Might be a dumb question, but what does skunking mean? Lol
@@jonnymac8925 Kevin's garage has a program called skunkworks. They rebuild the engine however the customer wants it. IE high performance or longevity
HD need to go to Japan and learn how to do a motorcycle engine
80 k is laughable to rebuilding motors
I don't know, I have 60K on my old dyna. It just seems like with the 'future engine', 80K isn't a lot of miles.
Thank you Kevin and Gods blessings for you all and be safe going to Sturges
I don't get it. I'd be mad as hell if my GL1800 needed to have the engine torn down at only 80,000 miles. But Harley owners seem to accept this as "normal". Why is this considered acceptable?
Geez. 80k miles. And issues already.
Awesome video. Just did a twin cam that seem to fit the same symptoms and found the same problems in the front cylinder and crank. Would love to work and learn in your shop. Your knowledge in these videos is really inspiring for this crazy Canuck.
This shows why Harley is going out of business. Why would you buy a bike that needs torn down with only 80,000 miles? I owned one Harley in my life, and this is why I won't own another one. You spend more time working on the thing than riding it. This is very poor quality. They didn't machine the m-8 properly to begin with and that was causing head gaskets to blow prematurely in 2017. Buy a Goldwing if you want 300,000 miles before tearing down. This is ridiculous and solidifies my decision to not own another one of these pieces of junk.
80k and the HD is shot - 80k on any Asian bike and it's will not go bad for at least 250k more miles. Says a lot about Harleys in general
Yea, yea….
Thanks for the kool video Kevin…. I have 2019 114” Ultra Limited… only seven thousand miles because I work all the time… would love to have your shop install me a new oil pump etc… thanks again from Lincolnton North Carolina 👍
Thank you sir! If you like, send me an email to kevin@protwin.com We can get parts ordered for you then schedule it in once parts arrive.
@@KevinBaxter ok thank you 🇺🇸
The way he explains everything, even a non-gearhead can understand. Great content and great channel, as always. This guy is a damn pro.
This guy is a “real”. Engineer👍
thank you sir.
Greetings Kevin, I'm glad the videos are back, and I look forward to meeting you on Monday, August 16th. I just received a phone call from the shipper and my trike has arrived at your shop!
Thank you sir! That is correct. Calling you shortly.
Hello Kevin, thank you for contacting me and checking the trike out. I do hope you can meet me at your shop on Monday the 16th to discuss the build (I have a lot to talk with you about!).
Engines really shouldn't need a complete tear down after 80,000 miles. HD should get their act together.
that'll never happen i've seen old Gold wings with way over 100k and NEVER BEEN APART .
And no body modifying an old mans Goldwing either lol
I have a Honda 02 750 spirit with 88,000 miles . It still runs good and I have always run it hard. It has been rejeted and runs 12.30 second quarter mile and gets 65 mpg.
I call b ess
a 750 spirit would NEVER do a 12.3
sheesh
try low 15's
U got information and I like the tear downs it's always good to see it first thank you keep it up
80k miles? That's the first scheduled oil change for a Goldwing.
Honda Civicwing.
i change my oil every 20 or 30 thousand miles,if it needs it or not
@@omarsalgado9715 wait I didn't know Honda Civic had flat 6 cylinder engine since when 😂
I had over 300,000 on a Goldwing before I sold it.
Who ares. The Wing goes and goes.
Thank you for the excellent videos Kevin!
My pleasure!. Thank you!
Great video and good explanation.
I don't understand why he keeps emphasizing that 80,000 miles is a lot of miles?? That's nothing for mileage.
That's only 128,000km
One of my bikes is a 1991 Goldwing GL1500 SE that has 240,000 km which is about 150,000 miles and I've done nothing to it. I haven't touched the motor, tranny or clutch. Only wearable items.
I would be pissed if I bought a motorcycle and had to rebuild the motor at only 80,000 miles.
IMHO, The motor and tranny on a motorcycle should last 300,000 miles or 500,000km before you even have to think of touching the motor or tranny.
HD makes money selling a $45,000 touring bike in Canada and then rebuilding the motor every 3-4 years.
Keep up the great videos
I totally agree with you. That is why I sold all my Harleys.
👍
I thought the same thing......80,000 miles is just broken in for a Goldwing. They can go 300,000 miles if properly cared for.
My xs 1100 1978 did 150 000 plus choper i also had a side car outfit 100 000 plus did rebore that i ran it from spain on 3cylinders not recomended uk biker
Lot of miles for Harley , not for Hondas, lmao he knows not to push it hard... horrible how disposable are Harleys.
I work hard for my money and for me smart purchase is something that will last and to last has to be low maintenance , everything on a Harley is disposable from suspension to cooling to rear belt , but remember you guys know to not push it hard LOL , my respect to you for doing this video and been a realistic mechanic, now you Harleys remember not to pushed hard and 80000 miles is about it LMAO!.
Got a friend with a Harley engine replacement just after 40000 miles and another one with clutch replacement just about 20000 miles ,i will never ever buy a Harley and they don't ride nice as some Hondas, actually can't even compared a newer goldwing or even a ctx1300, my dad been a mechanic will toll me if I loose my mind to purchase a disposable bike.
Great video thanks so much for posting Harley got here but have to tell it like it is in some brands 80,000 is not that many miles
If Harley can't make a engine that will last beyond 80k miles they need to talk to Indian motorcycles and get a better idea of what it takes to make a longer lasting engine.
Harley does make engines that last longer than 80k miles. There aren't videos about those examples because it isn't interesting to hear someone say, "Yeah, it's fine."
But I do agree that Indian makes a great bike. The American motorcycle industry needed a large, strong competitor to Harley.
Looks like aftermarket parts. S&s maybe
Yeah, Polaris has a few oil burning issues with the very early Victories, but they were awesome. I hope they bring back the brand a but less OCC style.
Very nice job!
I love that you don’t make us wait through bolt removal but high speed thru it. Comments and possibilities are simple direct and to the point!!
Great Video and info as always. Is that a 107 or 114? Did it run the original factory oil pump for 70,000 before upgrading? If so which of the four HD oil pumps was in it? I know to many questions.
Sorry I missed the typed info that it was an 107.
That's an s&s oil pump he pulled out of it.
I keep hearing the phrase "run too hot" in many of your videos. What is an example? 230,240,250 on oil temp or? I have a 2007 Heritage 28k miles, TC96 w/stage2 torque cam, V&H long shots, FI, Dynoed/tuned by ECM flash. My oil temp stays 220-230F during normal operation. Added man-o-war comp, Barnett 10 plate carbon clutch and Hayden tensioner (just finished today-wow is it smooth now). Thanks in advance!
thats a decent oil temp. i shoot for 300 to 320 deg measured at the base of the plug on the head.
80,000 mile and it's shot? My Gold Wing wasn't even broken it at 80,000!
(No one cares about your goldwing)
115,000 on my wing. Friend has over 600,000 on his 02.
Kevin I really enjoy your videos and thanks to you, I have learned a great deal about my own motor.
If you are interested, I would like to see a video from you about riding practices that are good for the longevity of a Harley motor as well as those that might cause premature deterioration. This could include shifting rpms and how that can affect compensators; how cruising rpms affect engine heat and cylinder head pressures; fuel choices including ethanol and it's effects.
With your knowledge and experience, I am certain that your comments would be very helpful to your subscribers.
I'd love to hear this also.
Yup… interested here too
I have an Evo with over 100,000 miles on it. Never been apart. Last of the reliable, easy to work on Harley motors.
@Thomas B While no bike engine is hard to work on the garbage timing chest nonsense (purely to facilitate semi-automated engine assembly, see factory videos) HD inflicted on customers was only to save the MoCo a few dollars in assembly labor. HD stopped being a "premium" quality engine when Evo ended (and those had their share of problems).
80k miles.. Not many miles..
Super interesting, big thanks Kevin!!!
thank you Tom!
I enjoyed every second of that. Great vid, thanks.
Issues with knocking at only 80000 miles!?!
Absolutely UNACCEPTABLE!
WHY? Why do people put up with this?
Agreed. With any vehicle I’m gonna put my money to get. I want reliability. Paying the Harley premium for probably the worst reliability out of any manufacturer just cannot be justified. Harley will fail eventually. It will catch up to them
@@ALEXdaG you can find $1000 1980s Goldwings on Craigslist ALL DAY with well in excess of 100000 miles that have never had a valve cover off. Just ridiculous that people spend this much money on something that breaks.
Top of the Pistion rod bearing and piston "pull" pin.- questions if the pistion slapped the bottom of the "jug" combustion chamber?
Tight spot in the crankshaft rotation- uneven rotation bearings load is favored to one side of the crankcase with the roller bearing. Replace the crank bearing with sealed wheel bearing and drill a oil hole @12 0'clock postion to have even crankshaft rotation-under load
The lifter rotation, lifter wear metal shavings or aluminum?- needs overboard & honed- lifter lockpin failed?
The pistion to valve clearance is not in between 0.003"- 0.005" - gasket gap? 0.011"?
"wrist" bearing replacement top of the piston arm
It looks like the hot spot on the cylinder was on the spark plug side. With a worn rod bearing the power stroke probably caused the piston to tilt sideways creating excessive friction and noise. 🤷♂️
What do you consider “running warm”? I average 295° when it’s 80° outside. I’m at 80,000 on my m8. Did 124 at 60.k. Typically getting 11oz out of crank position sensor at oil change. I have first gen S&S oil pump.
11 oz. of oil in the sump of a "dry sump" engine is a lot!
Any update on how many miles was last recorded on your m8
295 is ridiculously hot need to get some love jugs cool down the oil that oil temperature is hot even for synthetic oil you should take whatever measures it would need to reduce your oil temperature to be low 237 degrees 80000 MI between rebuilds is ridiculous
Kevin loved the tear down please show the build you do on this thanks
im not impressed either...but its not as bad as some ive seen with much lower miles. None has been spent other than cam plate and pump.
Are there more "robust" connecting-rod races out there?
HARLEY DAVIS MOTORCYCLES. A LAUGHING STOCK. A COMPLETE EMBARRASSMENT.
Troll. This is one motor.
A Japanese v twin would look brand new after 100,000 miles let alone 80
And an Italian vtwin would have a hard time making it to 50k.
Not sure where you are going with the comment unless you are trying to trash talk harley's.
That's nice, and you're telling us that because...?
@Keith C Yep, and your Kawasaki is a class-less wanna-be touring motorcycle; but, you sure saved money, Keith!
Come on guys....play nice.
@Keith C lol, that shut him up
80,000 miles is the highest mileage engine he’s ever seen? Why anyone would ever buy a Harley is a mystery.
Highest on a m8, the engine came out 5 years ago, thats 16,000mi a year, not many bikes do that.
Hi, I don't know anything about Harley's but I'll make a comment about them!
People buy Harley’s because they love how they ride and look. All else isn’t important.
Thanks Kevin for this video and the great info as usual. My 17 M8 is just turning 37k miles. This guy was really doing some riding. It's awesome that he got 80k on his. Unfortunately, unable to make Sturgis, but will be heading west for work that week. Stay safe.
Thank you sir. And this isnt his only bike....he rides like crazy.
To everyone in the comments yes this guy is a good mechanic explains what’s going on very well but 80,000 miles is NOT a lot of miles
Harley Davidson should be embarrassed by this
When at Sturgis, stop by the big cross just off Junction.
busy schedule but I'll try. thanks.
@@KevinBaxter I totally understand.
St1100 Honda have ran up to 300000 and beyond not a Hardly fan
Hi Kevin, I’ve been missing you for a spell. I realize you have a lot work going on. I’m close to 79 years old and the intense heat is knocking me down a bit. Plus a very low heart rate in the 40’s and 50’s!! Take care of your health and be careful at Sturges👍🤠
Thank you sir.
Mitchell take care of yourself brother we will keep you in our prayers. Sincerely, Kevin and Julia Shelton.😎❤👍🏻
80000 miles hopeless 😢
Should do way more way more miles before any issues
Love my 96 ci twin cam
My m8 107 ..no issues Love it too.... 😎 but it should last long time..
Harleys,,,worn out in 3 years when maintained well. Not exactly a good ad for them.
🤔Geez💤80k BAD MOTOR..PLASTIC LIFTERS HOLDERS.. 🤣PAY 20,$..BILLION $$$ CO. CANT BUILD A DEPENDABLE MOTOR? VW BUGs did better in the 50s😹
Phil Steiner's 8 year old Gold Wing had over 770k on it under Honda warranty when he upgraded to a new one.
Twin cams, and M8s are money pits...
If you wanna play you gotta pay!
I don't know, seems like HD has made a turn back to the AMF days when quality didn't matter. I own 3 of them with the latest one costing almost 50K out the door. Now I have to worry about it blowing up because it seems like it wasn't designed correctly and tested thoroughly enough before the dealer accepted the 50K. Well, I guess they keep people who do care employed, like you, but damn! Thank God I have a lifetime power train warranty on it! Keep up the great work 👍
thanks John
If you remember 99-2005 the twin am was having all sorts of problems as well. It happens with every new engine they put out. No different with the m8 sadly
I trust my 100 hp shovelhead to take me anywhere. It scares me to take my pos twin cam 10 miles from home.
You don't have to rebuild them. You can run them til they grenade. Everything is a wear item at some point. We are spoiled today with how long engines last. In the 70s by the time you paid off a vehicle in 4 years it was junk. Now they can easily last 20 years. I agree that harley could build them better. The heat issue is a big problem. My 12' came with a oil cooler so maybe that helped mine survive. I really want to put fans on the jugs. These summers are so hot and getting in traffic is a killer.
80k on a modern production engine with a knock is pretty poor reliability. I just sold a 76 Guzzi LeMans 1 with 140k miles and the lower end was perfect. One piston melted due to poor fueling but was the worst of it. Replaced one valve as it was bent. That’s it. This on a 45 year old bike.
It also depends how the bike was ridden. 80k hard miles is more wear than 140k easy miles
@@DirtRidingLarry the LeMans was one of the fastest sport bike of its time. It was ridden as it should have been as I know the previous owner. Poor engineering is just that. I cant comment on the Harley usage as I don’t have the history but 80k miles on a modern engine is poor reliability. Also in the video it is mentioned the bike has been taken care of and not abused.
Harleys are junk. They refuse to innovate bc the old heads think technology is scary.
80k on a Harley is pretty impressive, they usually blow up after 40k
I agree. My BMW is approaching 100,000 miles and runs better than ever. The K1200 engine is known to run 200,000+ with ease. 80,000 is break-in mileage on a modern engine. Unfortunately, chooses to build their current engines using 100 year old designs. Putting two large air cooled cylinders one behind the other is a recipe to cook the rear cylinder just as we see here. That is an unfortunate design decision, but it is what Harley chose to do so Harley owners simply have to live with short engine life to get the look and feel they desire. That is their choice and I am fine with that, but I choose a modern liquid cooled engine that avoids these problems and will run 200 to 300,000 miles with ease. Different strokes for different folks.
A good mechanic can go by feel, sight, and smell. He surely does this.
An M8 made it to 80k? Unfuckinbelievable!
Harley Davidson should be embarrassed
Merci beaucoup l'Ami !
How does that happen to a motor that was essentially babied - ridden in ideal conditions and maintained properly. 80k is honestly not a lot of miles...
So you are trying to figure out how this happens you've never had work done on anything you drive I would say you are the luckiest man alive lol.
What can I typically expect for *engine work* down the road with my stock M8 which I generally "baby" and always service at the dealership? _I bought this 2019 FLHR in February 2021 with 150 miles on it and now has 13k miles. I will easily ride 25k miles this year. Dealership says it will "go forever" if I take care of it._ Lol.
That's like a drill Sargent saying "your recruiter told you What?!
Did not feel great about the m8. 8ok is not alot of miles for a rebuild.
Hi Kevin hope your doing good, id like to know which oil this guy used and how many miles between changes. Rock on brother thanks for all the great videos.
Harley Syn 3 for 70k then new cam, pump and plate switched to Amsoil with 5000 mile intervals
@@greggszakmeister4679 80 k miles . . . wow that's some riding. Looks like that Syn3 did a fantastic job. The inside of your engine looks great.
Love you videos and the fact that you share your knowledge!
Sorry to have missed the premier, but I had a hot date with the Mrs.
Some questions:
1). Are you sporting a new uniform shirt? It looks like there are some breathing vents in there. Gotta be comfy in the GA humidity.
2). Who's the dashing fella @ 4:38? Is this his screen debut? Is he a new hire?
3) Is 80k really a lot of miles on this m8, given that the owner keeps up with maintenance & doesn't beat on it? I'm just trying to see if I need to manage my expectations.
4). Please put my parts in your freezer as they come in: I'd hate for them to spoil before we get around to the build...
Hot date comes first! 1. been sweating thru all my shirts in this heat wave. Still have the blue...just ran out of clean ones. LOL 2. New hire to help us in the back. Parts, general service, keeping the place clean, etc. 3. there are folks getting more miles out of them. its actually pretty rare to see a bike of any year with that many miles on it. the average ownership is 5 years, and avg mileage is 3300 annual. This is the highest mileage M8 I've seen in the shop. 4. LOL...the freezer is out of room, so are the shelves. Just glad to see things coming in finally.
Thank you Joe!
I THINK THESE PEOPLE ARE LUGGING THE MOTOR..RUNN HOTTER / BUILDUP..CAMMING UP ON HARLEYS JUNKMOTOR BAD
if Amsoil had been used, it would just be breaking in.
A Honda Goldwing doesn't break until it hits 40.k think about it folks and this engine is done at 80k
I have a goldwing now after coming off a twin cam road king. Can’t compare these two engines. That goldwing will break 100 k miles with nothing other than oil changes! I do nothing on my goldwing but put gas money n the thing!
That’s cool and all but some of us don’t want Goldwings. And that’s fine. Ride what ya like.
I want to see the cases split and the rods removed, the rod bearings and races themselves and the crank pin. Is there going to be a follow up and reassembly shown on this M8 V Twin engine?
I'd suspect the engine has been run low on oil, excessive traffic slow riding/idling (think Myrtle Beach main drag traffic), or excessive rpms or a combo of several or all? Might be time for H-D to think about piston oil squirters? You need to check out the oil pump very good too.
40K on a stock 114 no issues yet. we shall see what happens.
all the best for you! this is the highest mileage M8 ive taken apart.
What is the cause of the excess fuel consumtion? Tune?
maybe , ..the extra load from the shitty big end bearing coursing drag plus the piston slap,blow by and so motor getting hot so more fuel to help it run cooler
The tune. He did say the map that was put in with the cam 10,000 miles ago killed his gas mileage.
A bad rod bearing @ 80K miles on an Evo would be surprisingly bad. Maybe even on a TC. Not on an M8.
My Twin cam 103 is a great motor. 48-51 miles per gallon usually. If I ride easy I can get as much as 55 mpg. Enough power for me to do long rides in the hills.
That motor can last you 100s of thousands of miles if maintained properly. And maybe some luck.
I have a 14 road king with the 103, I run redline in all 3 holes every 5 k. my mechanic said hes seen 103's with 150k on them.
@@Imachowderhead I'm a big Redline fan also.
@@Imachowderhead
Twin cams are very good engines👍
I use Amsoil 20w50 in engine case And primary And 75w90 in gear case
What you think?
The way you explain things is easy to understand, thank you and keep em coming !
Ahh man I've missed your vids. Glad for a new one
Thanks Chuck!
Tear down should be hands free. Just let the engine run and it’ll vibrate itself apart.👍🏼
Most sensible comment I've seen
Buy a Honda. 125.000 miles. Runs purrrrrrrrrrfic
Rebuilt an evo engine with 250 000 miles.Bores looked good over bored to +.005" oversize .Crank pin was fine but replaced it anyway Guides were fine Valves faced up fine .Customer had maintained it well and it showed! The rocker assemblies were as clean as a whistle.Outstanding really Have another friend here has over 600 000 miles on a 1989 FXR Its getting tired (no kidding) but still goes ok,Dont believe any twin cam or M8 will do this.
M8 with only 80k needs a rebuild? I’d expect that from an older Ducati, but now a newer HD.
Sad.😔
Kevin, have you seen much wear on 2021? What I'm asking have they done any update on the rod bearings. On the 2021?
WOW, I HAVE 80K ON MY 2017 road glide special right now. haven't had any issues yet. I will be headed to Sturgis on my Road Glide S from Mobile, AL. hopefully I will meet you in sturgis to discuss my performance rebuild when she's ready! GREAT VIDEO!
Hope to see you there sir! Save travels!
My friend. What oil are you using ?
Dealer serviced ? Or amsoil ?
@@DG-fm6ti im just seeing your question. I've used amsoil, super tech from walmart , valvoline and mobil 1(all synthetic). I don't dog my bike but will skin er back whenever the need arises..haha! I change every 5k and other 2 holes ever 10k. I do all my own services. I just changed my drivebelt which wasn't hard but it was timely being a first for me and saved me $1,300. Other than the belt breaking I haven't had one issue yet with my M8 (stage 1 with headers and dynojet tuner) I have 87k on it as we speak. I get about 24k miles off of a dunlop American elites. the front tire I know I have 42k miles on it because I didn't have to change it when I changed the back tire last time.
I don’t see why you would have to tear down an engine after 80k. I have a car and truck both with 80k and I have not them tore down. Either way it seems the new revolution max engine addressed all the M8 issues. What I have found that religious oil changes nearly eliminate any and all engine issues, some don’t do it but it cheap maintenance. I drop oil more than anyone and all my vehicles have high mileage with ZERO motor work.
You aren’t comparing apples to apples
80k, probably mostly highway miles, and rod failure? IMHO, shouldn't have happened. Imagine if this sort of thing happened in the automotive industry.........
I agree with you. Years ago, 80,000 miles on a car was A TON of miles. Technology in auto has come much further over the years.
“This is the highest mileage Harley I’ve torn down - 80,000 miles”. Holy shit- now I know why I Ride a BMW.
If it cost as much or more than a car. it should last at least as long as a car. Gold wing =never tear down the motor. I enjoyed the video though.
No. Highest mileage M8.
Hello
80000 milles should be nothing for this engine
I wonder what says the warranty about this problem
So, this M8 had a bad stock rod-bearing. Are there more "Robust" rod bearings out there for these engines?
THEY ARE AIR cooled engines and contrary to what most engineers and techs think,changing oil more often won't hurt a damn thing,many filters many quarts, no wear is the end game,most of my bikes go 128 k miles,i ride state to state and walking ain't crowded,change the oils
Im wondering if the after market oil pump overperformed the standard lubrication system..eg overode oil passage capacity with leakage at hot spots. This is a common phenomen in older 2 stroke designs. Con rod drillings being over pressurised excuding oil from piston gudgeons.
Kevin. Love your stuff. Just a query could the EITMS (back cylinder not firing) be a contributing factor to the issues regarding the condition of the front cylinder as during idle only the front cylinder is firing which may possibly be a factor as a result of a change in the balance of the motor? Food for thought. Warrick & Steve (From Down Under).
that only happens when the engine is overheating. the heat would cause more damage than an imbalance. i never run it on a properly tuned engine.
Glad you got to the bottem of this mystery!
I wish I could put in a few days as your shadow in the shop during these breakdowns, good stuff my brother 👍🏻
Hope this is an isolated case because many individuals are building M8’s with high torque numbers on stock cranks. This would definitely lead to short engine life. Great content, keep the videos coming.
so much of that depends on the riders right hand.
Absolutely. Weekend mechanics throwing on 124-151 kits to the stock bottom end then complain about the quality of these engines. It's the same as the wheelie guys with the "bad" fork seals.
@@KevinBaxter and the tuner
When engineers redesigned the pistons to eliminate the side skirts in line with the wrist pins they must have believed that the loading on the pistons was only front-to-back. Harley riders like to lug the engine to get that low end torque, but that just increases the combustion chamber pressure and increases the chances of detonation. Detonation is like a hammer blow to the piston and everything connected to it, like wrist pins and rod bearings. Repeated enough times, it will pound flat spots on rod bearing balls and increases clearances on wrist pins. When that happens the piston will wobble in the cylinder bore. Nothing good will come of this. Now...
I put 50,000 miles on my 1200 Sportster in the first three years. It currently has 82,000 miles on it. Most of those were highway miles, with the rpm above 2000. My bike has a tach and I use my gears to keep the rpms above 2000, because below that number the engine will pound the rubber mounting when you try to accelerate.
Depending upon how bad the rod bearing is at operating temperature, it could be freezing the engine and the momentum of the bike, transmitted through the drivetrain, breaks it loose again and again.
i would like to buy new street bob 114, should i replace something on the beginning in M8? or not.