My comparator went out 😢 I have a 21 road glide limited with 10,100 miles so its out of warranty. I ended up with a billet comp ramp, new starter, new battery, I had one burnt clutch plate so I went with a set of heavier clutch springs. Add in the labor and my bill was $1,800. I'm not happy and about to sell my Harley and buy a GoldWing!!!!! I am mad that every time I take my bike to the shop its a minnum of $1,000! New "lo miles bikes" shouldn't have catastrophic failures, for the price of a new motorcycle today it should not brake OR have a better warranty!
Exactly what my intuition was whispering in my ear. Make perfect sense to me. Better to replace compensator than trans, clutch and many other components
Hey Kevin, good to see you in the new shop and making tech videos. The compensator is there for a reason. I’ll never get rid of it. I agree with you completely…..most of us don’t need to remove it.
I blew the stock compensator in 17 SGS in less than 10k miles. 3 dealerships said the noise was normal. Outside private owned shop confirmed it was not 😂. Was like pulling teeth getting HD to warranty the failure
Kevin, you speak reason. As an engineer myself, I recognize that Harley engineers are not infallible. However, they are the experts in that particular design and they don’t add features just to make the product more expensive for the consumer initially or to make it more expensive to maintain. Those features like the compensator are added to make the product more reliable overall. Deletion of a certain feature should only be done after learning why it exists and deliberating the resulting pros and cons. You’ve added some education to why the compensator exists and what can happen if it’s deleted, which is truly helpful. Thanks!
@@WyattSmith-pu6jmthe compensator does NOT compensate for an unbalanced crank. It compensates for how the Harley motors share a crank pin and that both cylinders are firing on the same stroke which creates pulses, especially at lower engine speeds (below about 2500rpms). Has nothing to do with unbalanced cranks.
I changed my Man O War in my 128" build at 20,000 miles to see if I'd notice any wear. The new bushings quieted it down. So while 20,000 miles doesn't seem like a lot, remember it is a 150hp 128" and the bushings are only $40.00 and really quick to change...not to mention the better drivetrain feel the Man O War gives...
I’m running an extra spring in my compensator by Dan Thayer and I have 110,000 miles (18 RG) on the stock comp with a built motor. I ride briskly, but I don’t beat on it.
40,000 miles with the manowar compensator, working perfectly and not noisy with my Heritage. Engine build perfect, might have something to do with that, also ride moderately. I can and do recommend the product strongly. Glad to see you back in your business, looking great. Hope to get together soon, best always. Bob
I swapped my Comp ramp in my FLFBS with a tool steel one from CycleRama. Problem Solved. Compensator features preserved. Was a fairly easy swap. You dont need to pull the clutch basket. You can pull the entire compensataor out once you remove the chain tensioner.
My Darkhorse compensator has been working perfectly so far.. They make a great one! I drove over to WI. to their shop directly from MI. to purchase it. Thanks for your recommendations. 20 K on it and running strong! M8 107 2017 Roadglide Special..
Had to replace my compensator on my O4 after some one did a complete engine rebuild. They didn't check it but I found it along with a lot of more problems.
LORDY, IN THE FIRST 20 SECONDS I SEE PREMIUMN EQUIPMENT, GOOD FOR YOU AND THE REST OF US THAT LEARN AND GET SERVICED BYE YOUR SHOP. I WISH GREAT BUSINESS FOR YOU.
I'm guessing that it could be said that the compensator is a sacrificial link that helps preserve other components in the drive chain setup, kind of like a fuse in an electrical system. So it's a replacement item that's easier and less costly to replace than everything downstream, would you say?
Pretty much hit the nail on the head when you brought up the issue of high horsepower and torque in today's engines. The reason we can run straight sprockets and primary chains without tensioners in our oil Panheads is because we're not churning out crazy high H.P. and torque numbers. And even with what we are putting out we break things. Today's big engines shake, rattle and roll and all that energy has to go somewhere. This the introduction of compensators. Eliminate them at your own risk because eventually something's going to give. Nice little video.
Kevin, I have a 2012 Road king and I put the Screamin eagle compensator on mine and it works fine. I think it’s the same thing as the stock compensator just a little more heavy duty.
I needed to replace the comp on my 06 Road King, and thought I would try an eliminator. So I purchased a well known Comp eliminator sprocket. installed it and it lasted in the bike 3 days. I hated the way it felt! I felt it totally changed the way the ride ability of the bike. Very pulsey, almost like I could feel every fire of the cylinders. ya it might be for some people but I personally hated the feel. So I installed the new comp and everything was sweet again. Good video.
You explain it in a way that makes logical sense. These parts are put in for a reason. The Motor Company wouldn’t add more for no reason. I’m in the camp of having a compensator.
Another vote here for the Man O War. I have one in my 2015 Ultra and I love it. Shifting is so much better. It didn't really have a shifting problem before but now its silky smooth.
I have Hayden primary a tensioner. I have run them for 30 years. I got a 2020 Road limited new. I put the Hayden in the first week. Last fall I put a Dark Horse in 5000 miles. No noise from the primary. Love the Dark Horse. Very happy to see you back
Thanks for this video, Kevin. I am new to Harleys, and am discussing whether to upgrade or delete my factory compensator on my '21 M8 107, which I upgraded to Stage II. Since I don't race, the answer is clear to keep the compensator, but I will upgrade to high alloy steel billet. I have seen reports of stock cast compensators cracking even at lower miles. I don't run the power many do, but even so that's an untenable failure on the road!
On my '09 Road King, I have chosen to compensate. After 70k miles the oe compensator began to fail, I opted for the factory recommended S.E. for replacement, my engine is relatively stock aside from an increase in displacement(to 103ci) and the usual "stage 1" goodies, I'm also not an aggressive rider (as I once was in my youth😉), so far so good and I don't expect it to fail anytime soon with my style of riding. Ride on all and be safe.
Installed a man o war. in my 07..Ultra...Hated it to much gear changing due to lurching...made sure primary chain was was right even put Hayden tensioner...Put in a 2010 SE comp...factory tensioner....Seem to be good.....
I have a solid on a 120 Evo, I also have the Dark horse on my S.2 M8 r.king I love it. Probably will be going back to the original comp. on the Evo. Always a pleasure thank you sir.
Low rev's in high gears has always been destructive in all big twins. 2 out of 3 riders I see today rack up the gears to 4 th in a 35mph zone running 1,800 to 2,100 rpm, then WOT it to 55 when the mood hits them. The same damage potential is present at touring speeds, when accelerating heavy in 6th, and even 5th just because you make 120 torque at 2,800-3,000. It's your money, hammer the crap out of it, it keeps children fed and looking good in school.
Installed a Dark Horse compensator along with a Oregon Hot Bike hydraulic chain tensioner. Better throttle response, smoother shifting, and dead quiet primary! 2015 SGS.
Before I watch IMO to eliminate is only pushing the problem of the weakest link to another location to absorb. To eliminate again IMO should be reserved for 1/4 miles runs not the street but hey it's just my opinion. OK now I'll watch and get the education, might change my mind Kevin.
Kevin, I agree with your choice. When I watched your video with Dark Horse and saw the Dark Horse product, I knew I wanted one in my bike. Little did I know at that time I was going to do a full build. I am glad now I waited. If I remember, you couldn't wait to get to there new part to talk about it. I back it up and watched it twice. I just ordered me a Skunked Hoodie. We are having some cooler mornings down here in Georgia too.
Your info reminds me of the guy that replaces his stock bumper with a piece of iron. Then a minor hit bends his frame instead just the stock bumper. Thank you.
I got tired of replacing the stock compensator ( twice in 2500 miles) went to the baker set up and got rid of the stock Harley primary chain adjustment set up and went back to a manual adjustment and have zero issues since. I feel the stock Harley primary adjustment device puts way too much pressure on the primary chain which I feel might be the issue with comp sprockets making noise and failing Harley has to know there is a big issue here when my local Harley dealer keeps plenty of these in stock! Hmmmm…..
Kevin you're right on time with this one...... I'm about ti pop my primary open for inspection of everything in a 42k mile new to me 2011 Crossbones. Have been eyeing the Darkhorse unit as a possible upgrade if I need to replace my compensator.
Hey Kavin, fantastic to see your tech videos again! I opened my Darkhorse comp after 10k miles during primary and clutch maintenance. Cushions were like new. I had new ones for replacement but decided to put back old due to its condition.
Very good Topic Kevin we have a Company that produces these Compensator Ramps in Australia in Gladstone Queensland they are making these items that are virtually indistructable the name of the Company is called ALPHA PERFORMANCE ENGINES (APE) ,, The guys at Harbour City Harley Davidson really do know their Stuff and are Building some Awesome Big Power out of these M8 engines aswel like I'm talking 165 HP 173 Ft Lbs of torque and Beyond. But here I think the component is valued at around $700. Keep up the Great work Kevin I always love watching all of your informative videos Maaaaate. Brett in AU🇦🇺
I have heard, and totally believe that quite a few failures of compensators were / are caused by bad riding habits, and NOT just overly aggressive riders, but the crowd that likes to lug their engine. You know, the guys that short shift their bikes, and are heavy on the throttle at sub 3,500 rpms.
I have owned over 25 different Harley’s from shovels to M8s, I have never broke or worn out a compensator. Check your riding styles. I ride aggressively but not without thinking about mechanicals going on.
Rite on ...sounds like good since....it is what it is ...look like you caught up on rest,congratulations on your new shop may you prosper my friend 👍☕️☕️✌️
The belt on a belt primary absorbs about the same amount of shock load as a chain, which is almost nothing. That modern belts absorb shock loads is a myth.
I just replaced my compensator in my 2007 Street Glide with 56,000 miles on it. I some what knew the purpose of the comp was but your video explained it perfectly. Thanks for educating to me on what a compensator does.
Great video, point well made, l am going to fit a Dark Horse or Baker Drivetrain compensator, have not decided which one yet, to my 2010 Fatboy Lo, beginning to clank loudly on start up and neutral difficult to find sometimes, l suppose it must be the compensator.........
Replace the compensator ramp only. Nothing wrong with the OEM sprocket. Something like the EVO Billet Heavy Duty Comp Ramp. Solid Aircraft gear material machined. Not a cast item. Quieter than the Man O War.
Great tech video as always. You always are honest about your opinions and thoughts on any subject. You don't try to push one way or another and always give plenty of info to consider. Thank you!
I've decided this video is spot on. I tried a solid...........Don't do it. I took it right out as the chain clatter worsened especially at Idle. There was no more compensation for the pulses. I had the dealer install a booster spring on the original compensator and that was the ticket to a smoother shifting quieter compensator. 2014 Rushmore edition.
Really appreciate that video. Not having trouble out of my compensator. Have an '02 Dyna Super Glide and was researching for an upgraded comp. for future reference and couldn't find any. You answered my question without me asking. Guess I won't worry too much about it. Thanks
Compensators exist because HD did not use cush drive rear hubs until very recently. I've run plain sprockets ("eliminator" my posterior, it's a farking SPROCKET) for many years without ill effects on my FXRs which have stock rear belts. Many professionals run sprockets on high output engines without issues other than not having to replace compensators. HDs core market are sensitive about vibration. It's not like the old days when that would have been laughable as HDs were expected to vibrate.
Mr. Kevin I think your videos are outstanding! So much so, when my 2015 Road Glide Special hits 50k I plan on taking it to you from Albuquerque, NM for a complete rebuild.
Great vid Kevin. I have a stage 2 107 M8 and I want reliability. I choose to keep the stock comp and if it fails which I don’t expect it too because I don’t abuse my bike, I’ll just replace it with an upgraded ramp and spring pack. I want my transmission, clutch and driveline to stay healthy. I’ll build a SE 119 or a 124 some day and will still keep the compensator. My right wrist will roll the power on slower and I’ll shift the bike easier to keep the primary and driveline from getting hammered to aggressively.
Always useful to tune into the latest banter, no doubt there's no shortage of confusion there to clear up hehe. Whichever way you choose to teach please keep it coming Kevin, can't tell you what you've done for my bike building knowledge.
This is excellent information, by a Very Experienced Motor Builder.. And I will back up his Opinions fully, because I had an eliminator, but the clutch soon needed a new splineed hub..I did put back a compensator, currently It runs and shifts more smoothly.
I’ll plug the ManOWar for ya. 😁 30k miles on a 2012 EG. No worries. Bout due for new cushions. You know Harley had comp problems. You don’t redesign something 5 times in 7 years if it’s working.
I've pulled or welded up them for many years ... All my shovels were done and I hate new bikes since my twin cam days .. if you know how to ride and don't lug your engine you don't need them
I ran a solid gear on my 2013 Road Glide for roughly 500 miles, I didn't like the feel the bike had running, more of a vibration, so I went back to the SE compensator and haven't had any issues so far.
Awesome vid! And I personally think that if it's in there from factory there's a reason. For the most part at least. Cheers from frosty Alberta Canada 🇨🇦
You go above and beyond supplier loyalty to your customers. Very much appreciated!!! There are not very many people of your caliber in the world today, right up to our President and government. If our country was run by people of your caliber, this still would be the greatest nation on earth.
i put a Screamin Eagle Compensator in my 2008 96ci Road King, and i'm an old man that cruises the coast of NH and ME not racing, and for me that SE Compensator is AWESOME !! for me.
The engine shaft side variator pulley on my moped is made of aluminum I've replaced it many times but it's a lot cheaper than a bent crank! I think this is a similar situation.
Sir all I have to say is this. Lol As a Skunkworks 124, it has all the trimmings. She looks stock...but nowhere near it. We start with Öhlins USA fork and shocks, a race ready Darkhorse Crankworks custom bottom end and motor sprocket, Baker Drivetrain Official Page DD7 and primary adjuster, Trask Performance billet clutch basket and air cleaner, @Bandit Sportsman clutch, S&S Cycle, Inc. gear drive with plate and pump, our own Skunkworks heads and cylinders, Horsepower Inc. throttle body, our blueprinted custom injectors, D&D Exhaust Billet Cat, @AIM slave cylinder, and ARP 12 point polished fasteners hold it all together. Shes smooth as silk, easy to ride, but at 152hp and 148 torque, be ready when you whack on it. After 13k and a few oil changes she’s still running like a Swiss watch, or better.
Awesome video, working on bikes myself for living for quite a few years and from time to time, not always but there will come a bike with its springs shattered inside needing spring discs replaced and good to go, and a good service of course. But on my case there tends to be a trend and these bikes for the most part have either neglected service such as regular km oil changes, and/or as you stated very aggressive along with a few bad habits when riding (conclusions made after talking to clients leading me to that) great content sir, a huge follower all the way from Chile, south America
Kevin good video, I've got a 2008 CVO its my babe of choice, I have 76,842 on the clock I've had to replace the primary chain looked at my compensator there is very little wear. I'm a cruiser rider LD is weekly thing but from day one I changed oil products I'm my bike I contribute that to assisting in reduced friction less wear. I use a fully synthetic oil from Amisol. In all 9 of my bikes. Never had a comp failure.
I’ve been running Harley-Davidson’s Screaming Eagle Hole-Shot kit on my 02 FXSTB Nightrain with a maxed out 96 motor for 21 years it basically has less motor sprocket teeth than a stock one! But either way we’re made very well!
Good insight - My billet Comp and Evolution Industires New Comp Spring packs are a good match. Compensators are a serviceable item and should be looked at for wear and if worn replace'em. My guess is checking around 10-15k unless sooner is needed for some unforeseen reason.
here is my experience with the dark horse hybrid comp and an evolution complete stage one clutch basket. 2015 flhp. purchased with 1500 miles. like a fool i caused an issue with the clutch by installing a device to assist with the heavy clutch pull of the flhp. i believe it caused early problems with starting, finding neutral ETC. i installed a DH comp and Evolution complete set up with the billet inner-using blue springs. I had a VERY pronounced neutral rattle. also, some drive line noises until warmed up. after about 1000 miles, to satisfy my OCD, i tore it down to RE-check tolerances and torque specs. while doing so, i damaged the billet inner clutch basket so i ordered their steel one as a replacement (AND THE PROPER CLUTCH TOOL). All tolerances were WAY in spec. this time, I did change the way I installed the Compensator bolt. This time instead of cranking it to spec, I used the method in the manual. You have to season the threads by tq'ing to 100 ft lbs-----back it off and THEN crank it to full spec. (make sure to use a NEW comp bolt!) I even Re-used the same clutch plates. Quiet as a church mouse now. I'm VERY happy with the set up. THE ONLY negative is that at about 2800-3000 rpm, there is a bit of a shutter felt when at steady throttle. this is not from my tune. i'm using a thundermax auto tuner.
FYI late forties Indian had compensators to prevent keyed shafts from spinning in the cast iron flywheel Harley borrowed the idea for their cast-iron flywheel in 1955. In the seventies Harley improve the compensators and in the eighties they discovered it was a great idea for spark knock. I worked at a Harley dealer in the early 70s and a old mechanic told me the truth of the compensator some companies have a compensator that copies the 70 style and other companies will copy the shovelhead Sturgis style. My friend George which was in charge of r&d at Talladega inform me they were going to a rubber cush drive in the rear wheel... So why do you need so why do you need a compensator. The main issue on 07 to present is the primary drive speed is greater than the 2006 and earlier
Just saw this video Kevin I thoroughly enjoy your videos they are very informative. I just upgraded my 2011 FLHX with a 96” TC motor with a new S&S Camchest kit, oil pump etc. based off watching your videos I took great care to measure everything to assure my crank and other areas within the camchest were in spec. I replaced the stock compensator with a dark horse comp, Barnett clutch with the coil spring pressure plate to assure I had no issues in the primary. Since the upgrades I increased my torque to 110ftlbs. I had the bike tuned and put in a dyno it throws out respectable numbers for a stage 2 with my set up on that motor. Thank you for passing on your knowledge it definitely helps with making sound decisions.
Given, that The Motor Co.'s 45° narrow angle V-Twin, with a single crankpin, locating both connecting rods, and firing at 315, and 405° of crankshaft rotation, the power pulses are inherently uneven. The coveted, signature "potato potato" idle note, has a price to pay. Such is the nature of the beast.
Thanks Kevin. I have been doing research into what you just covered in your podcast. I have a 2018 HD Softail deluxe flde and I want to have work done on my primary side ie compensator, clutch etc.
I'm a little late but consider this. My '71 fx has a solid sprocket and has no provisions for electric start. The same vintage flh with electric start has a compensator. But I once owned a 250cc Ossa dirt bike that had a compensator very similar to the harley setup. My contention is the compensator is to ease the pain on the starter be it an electric motor or your leg. Keep in mind the Ossa ran full advance timing at all times and could be brutal to start. I might be wrong.
I am trying this year the Evolution Spring pack. So far I believe it is superior to Factory. Not allowing the ramp assembly to slide as much. I have a performance motor so I will let you know how long this modification last.
![BOWKYLION - วิงวอน (ex-change) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cLdnZWDaO-w/mqdefault.jpg)
My comparator went out 😢
I have a 21 road glide limited with 10,100 miles so its out of warranty.
I ended up with a billet comp ramp, new starter, new battery, I had one burnt clutch plate so I went with a set of heavier clutch springs.
Add in the labor and my bill was $1,800.
I'm not happy and about to sell my Harley and buy a GoldWing!!!!!
I am mad that every time I take my bike to the shop its a minnum of $1,000!
New "lo miles bikes" shouldn't have catastrophic failures, for the price of a new motorcycle today it should not brake OR have a better warranty!
100% agreed
Exactly what my intuition was whispering in my ear. Make perfect sense to me. Better to replace compensator than trans, clutch and many other components
Hey Kevin, good to see you in the new shop and making tech videos. The compensator is there for a reason. I’ll never get rid of it. I agree with you completely…..most of us don’t need to remove it.
If you have a big bore Evo motor you have no other choice. Nobody makes anything for older bikes.
I blew the stock compensator in 17 SGS in less than 10k miles. 3 dealerships said the noise was normal. Outside private owned shop confirmed it was not 😂. Was like pulling teeth getting HD to warranty the failure
Kevin, you speak reason. As an engineer myself, I recognize that Harley engineers are not infallible. However, they are the experts in that particular design and they don’t add features just to make the product more expensive for the consumer initially or to make it more expensive to maintain. Those features like the compensator are added to make the product more reliable overall. Deletion of a certain feature should only be done after learning why it exists and deliberating the resulting pros and cons.
You’ve added some education to why the compensator exists and what can happen if it’s deleted, which is truly helpful. Thanks!
Yeh, explain twin cam tensioners
Then why don't they balance their cranks from the factory?? Yeah great engineers and we are charged to much for very minimal
@@WyattSmith-pu6jmthe compensator does NOT compensate for an unbalanced crank. It compensates for how the Harley motors share a crank pin and that both cylinders are firing on the same stroke which creates pulses, especially at lower engine speeds (below about 2500rpms). Has nothing to do with unbalanced cranks.
And on belt drives, clutch hub is a wearable part. I would never get rid of the compensator, on a modern, daily rider. JMO. Great video!
From what i understand, the weakest compensators from HD came in stock bikes from the 06-09 Dynas and 07-09 FLs and Softails.
good video Iam at 165 hp on my everyday bagger and I run cycle rama ramp
no problems
I changed my Man O War in my 128" build at 20,000 miles to see if I'd notice any wear. The new bushings quieted it down. So while 20,000 miles doesn't seem like a lot, remember it is a 150hp 128" and the bushings are only $40.00 and really quick to change...not to mention the better drivetrain feel the Man O War gives...
I agree 100%
You have the best HD information on the internet, period. Very informative even for people not mechanically inclined like me.
I’m running an extra spring in my compensator by Dan Thayer and I have 110,000 miles (18 RG) on the stock comp with a built motor. I ride briskly, but I don’t beat on it.
And where do I find info on the extra spring...can't really find a link on the net
40,000 miles with the manowar compensator, working perfectly and not noisy with my Heritage. Engine build perfect, might have something to do with that, also ride moderately. I can and do recommend the product strongly. Glad to see you back in your business, looking great. Hope to get together soon, best always. Bob
I swapped my Comp ramp in my FLFBS with a tool steel one from CycleRama. Problem Solved. Compensator features preserved.
Was a fairly easy swap. You dont need to pull the clutch basket. You can pull the entire compensataor out once you remove the chain tensioner.
My Darkhorse compensator has been working perfectly so far.. They make a great one! I drove over to WI. to their shop directly from MI. to purchase it. Thanks for your recommendations. 20 K on it and running strong! M8 107 2017 Roadglide Special..
Had to replace my compensator on my O4 after some one did a complete engine rebuild. They didn't check it but I found it along with a lot of more problems.
Went to a manual primary chain adjuster and solid sprocket. At 10k miles and counting, like being able to find neutral and the easy gear shifts.
Go hydraulic for tensioner , they rock 🤙
@@jimscycleandautotn8508 any recommendations?
LORDY, IN THE FIRST 20 SECONDS I SEE PREMIUMN EQUIPMENT, GOOD FOR YOU AND THE REST OF US THAT LEARN AND GET SERVICED BYE YOUR SHOP. I WISH GREAT BUSINESS FOR YOU.
I'm guessing that it could be said that the compensator is a sacrificial link that helps preserve other components in the drive chain setup, kind of like a fuse in an electrical system. So it's a replacement item that's easier and less costly to replace than everything downstream, would you say?
Pretty much hit the nail on the head when you brought up the issue of high horsepower and torque in today's engines. The reason we can run straight sprockets and primary chains without tensioners in our oil Panheads is because we're not churning out crazy high H.P. and torque numbers. And even with what we are putting out we break things. Today's big engines shake, rattle and roll and all that energy has to go somewhere. This the introduction of compensators. Eliminate them at your own risk because eventually something's going to give. Nice little video.
Kevin, I have a 2012 Road king and I put the Screamin eagle compensator on mine and it works fine. I think it’s the same thing as the stock compensator just a little more heavy duty.
I needed to replace the comp on my 06 Road King, and thought I would try an eliminator. So I purchased a well known Comp eliminator sprocket. installed it and it lasted in the bike 3 days. I hated the way it felt! I felt it totally changed the way the ride ability of the bike. Very pulsey, almost like I could feel every fire of the cylinders. ya it might be for some people but I personally hated the feel. So I installed the new comp and everything was sweet again. Good video.
Great info, have a question about the baker compensator for the M8.
Kevin, how about developing a gear drive primary system. as in my old 1948 Indian chief. it worked great. less parts fewer problems.
You explain it in a way that makes logical sense. These parts are put in for a reason. The Motor Company wouldn’t add more for no reason. I’m in the camp of having a compensator.
Manowar sprocket is the way to go. 2014 Roadking, Zipper's 107 sport kit,Darkhorse crank,115hp, 120tq .Runs great, no issues.
Another vote here for the Man O War. I have one in my 2015 Ultra and I love it. Shifting is so much better. It didn't really have a shifting problem before but now its silky smooth.
I have a Baker Compensator 36,000 miles on it no issues at all well worth the money . Great Video Kevin !!
I have Hayden primary a tensioner. I have run them for 30 years. I got a 2020 Road limited new. I put the Hayden in the first week. Last fall I put a Dark Horse in 5000 miles. No noise from the primary. Love the Dark Horse.
Very happy to see you back
Good information and explanation Kevin, thanks for sharing. 👍🏻🇺🇸
Thanks for this video, Kevin. I am new to Harleys, and am discussing whether to upgrade or delete my factory compensator on my '21 M8 107, which I upgraded to Stage II. Since I don't race, the answer is clear to keep the compensator, but I will upgrade to high alloy steel billet. I have seen reports of stock cast compensators cracking even at lower miles. I don't run the power many do, but even so that's an untenable failure on the road!
On my '09 Road King, I have chosen to compensate. After 70k miles the oe compensator began to fail, I opted for the factory recommended S.E. for replacement, my engine is relatively stock aside from an increase in displacement(to 103ci) and the usual "stage 1" goodies, I'm also not an aggressive rider (as I once was in my youth😉), so far so good and I don't expect it to fail anytime soon with my style of riding. Ride on all and be safe.
Installed a man o war. in my 07..Ultra...Hated it to much gear changing due to lurching...made sure primary chain was was right even put Hayden tensioner...Put in a 2010 SE comp...factory tensioner....Seem to be good.....
I have a solid on a 120 Evo, I also have the Dark horse on my S.2 M8 r.king I love it. Probably will be going back to the original comp. on the Evo. Always a pleasure thank you sir.
Low rev's in high gears has always been destructive in all big twins. 2 out of 3 riders I see today rack up the gears to 4 th in a 35mph zone running 1,800 to 2,100 rpm, then WOT it to 55 when the mood hits them. The same damage potential is present at touring speeds, when accelerating heavy in 6th, and even 5th just because you make 120 torque at 2,800-3,000. It's your money, hammer the crap out of it, it keeps children fed and looking good in school.
Installed a Dark Horse compensator along with a Oregon Hot Bike hydraulic chain tensioner. Better throttle response, smoother shifting, and dead quiet primary!
2015 SGS.
I have the man of war comp in my 124 m8 15k or so now of lots of abuse and she still runs strong.
Before I watch IMO to eliminate is only pushing the problem of the weakest link to another location to absorb. To eliminate again IMO should be reserved for 1/4 miles runs not the street but hey it's just my opinion. OK now I'll watch and get the education, might change my mind Kevin.
Good information. Thanks!
Thanks for the vid, it definitely helped make my mind up about changing to an eliminator. Let's just say I have a softail with compensator.
Kevin, I agree with your choice. When I watched your video with Dark Horse and saw the Dark Horse product, I knew I wanted one in my bike. Little did I know at that time I was going to do a full build. I am glad now I waited. If I remember, you couldn't wait to get to there new part to talk about it. I back it up and watched it twice. I just ordered me a Skunked Hoodie. We are having some
cooler mornings down here in Georgia too.
Your info reminds me of the guy that replaces his stock bumper with a piece of iron. Then a minor hit bends his frame instead just the stock bumper. Thank you.
I got tired of replacing the stock compensator ( twice in 2500 miles) went to the baker set up and got rid of the stock Harley primary chain adjustment set up and went back to a manual adjustment and have zero issues since. I feel the stock Harley primary adjustment device puts way too much pressure on the primary chain which I feel might be the issue with comp sprockets making noise and failing Harley has to know there is a big issue here when my local Harley dealer keeps plenty of these in stock! Hmmmm…..
Could you post a link for the baker setup please? Tia
Kevin you're right on time with this one...... I'm about ti pop my primary open for inspection of everything in a 42k mile new to me 2011 Crossbones. Have been eyeing the Darkhorse unit as a possible upgrade if I need to replace my compensator.
Hey Kavin, fantastic to see your tech videos again! I opened my Darkhorse comp after 10k miles during primary and clutch maintenance. Cushions were like new. I had new ones for replacement but decided to put back old due to its condition.
Very good Topic Kevin we have a Company that produces these Compensator Ramps in Australia in Gladstone Queensland they are making these items that are virtually indistructable the name of the Company is called ALPHA PERFORMANCE ENGINES (APE) ,, The guys at Harbour City Harley Davidson really do know their Stuff and are Building some Awesome Big Power out of these M8 engines aswel like I'm talking 165 HP 173 Ft Lbs of torque and Beyond. But here I think the component is valued at around $700.
Keep up the Great work Kevin I always love watching all of your informative videos Maaaaate.
Brett in AU🇦🇺
I have heard, and totally believe that quite a few failures of compensators were / are caused by bad riding habits, and NOT just overly aggressive riders, but the crowd that likes to lug their engine. You know, the guys that short shift their bikes, and are heavy on the throttle at sub 3,500 rpms.
I guess. If one considers going like hell a bad habit 😄
I have owned over 25 different Harley’s from shovels to M8s, I have never broke or worn out a compensator. Check your riding styles. I ride aggressively but not without thinking about mechanicals going on.
Rite on ...sounds like good since....it is what it is ...look like you caught up on rest,congratulations on your new shop may you prosper my friend 👍☕️☕️✌️
Nice job Kevin, you explained that very well 👍
The belt on a belt primary absorbs about the same amount of shock load as a chain, which is almost nothing. That modern belts absorb shock loads is a myth.
I've got an 07 ultra. I put the darkhorse unit in it with no regrets.
I just replaced my compensator in my 2007 Street Glide with 56,000 miles on it. I some what knew the purpose of the comp was but your video explained it perfectly. Thanks for educating to me on what a compensator does.
Great video, point well made, l am going to fit a Dark Horse or Baker Drivetrain compensator, have not decided which one yet, to my 2010 Fatboy Lo, beginning to clank loudly on start up and neutral difficult to find sometimes, l suppose it must be the compensator.........
Great advice
Replace the compensator ramp only. Nothing wrong with the OEM sprocket. Something like the EVO Billet Heavy Duty Comp Ramp. Solid Aircraft gear material machined. Not a cast item. Quieter than the Man O War.
Great tech video as always. You always are honest about your opinions and thoughts on any subject. You don't try to push one way or another and always give plenty of info to consider. Thank you!
I've decided this video is spot on. I tried a solid...........Don't do it. I took it right out as the chain clatter worsened especially at Idle. There was no more compensation for the pulses. I had the dealer install a booster spring on the original compensator and that was the ticket to a smoother shifting quieter compensator. 2014 Rushmore edition.
Ok i understand, but what is your opinion about belt clutch which is not using compensator? And works without problems!!!!
Compensators are not currently an issue for me but that you for the lesson.
I wanted a darkhourse compensator for my 2006 flh124 twin cam. They didnt make one.
Really appreciate that video. Not having trouble out of my compensator. Have an '02 Dyna Super Glide and was researching for an upgraded comp. for future reference and couldn't find any. You answered my question without me asking. Guess I won't worry too much about it. Thanks
Compensators exist because HD did not use cush drive rear hubs until very recently. I've run plain sprockets ("eliminator" my posterior, it's a farking SPROCKET) for many years without ill effects on my FXRs which have stock rear belts. Many professionals run sprockets on high output engines without issues other than not having to replace compensators. HDs core market are sensitive about vibration. It's not like the old days when that would have been laughable as HDs were expected to vibrate.
Mr. Kevin I think your videos are outstanding! So much so, when my 2015 Road Glide Special hits 50k I plan on taking it to you from Albuquerque, NM for a complete rebuild.
Great vid Kevin. I have a stage 2 107 M8 and I want reliability. I choose to keep the stock comp and if it fails which I don’t expect it too because I don’t abuse my bike, I’ll just replace it with an upgraded ramp and spring pack. I want my transmission, clutch and driveline to stay healthy. I’ll build a SE 119 or a 124 some day and will still keep the compensator. My right wrist will roll the power on slower and I’ll shift the bike easier to keep the primary and driveline from getting hammered to aggressively.
GREAT show 👏 👍
Always useful to tune into the latest banter, no doubt there's no shortage of confusion there to clear up hehe. Whichever way you choose to teach please keep it coming Kevin, can't tell you what you've done for my bike building knowledge.
This is excellent information, by a Very Experienced Motor Builder..
And I will back up his Opinions fully, because I had an eliminator, but the clutch soon needed a new splineed hub..I did put back a compensator, currently It runs and shifts more smoothly.
I’m running a Dark Horse balanced crank with their dark horse compensator on a mild 110 build. I don’t baby it but I don’t beat it to death either.
I’ll plug the ManOWar for ya. 😁 30k miles on a 2012 EG. No worries. Bout due for new cushions.
You know Harley had comp problems. You don’t redesign something 5 times in 7 years if it’s working.
I've pulled or welded up them for many years ... All my shovels were done and I hate new bikes since my twin cam days .. if you know how to ride and don't lug your engine you don't need them
Excellent explanation on the compensator eliminate debate-totally concur with your views/opinion on the subject👍🏻
I ran a solid gear on my 2013 Road Glide for roughly 500 miles, I didn't like the feel the bike had running, more of a vibration, so I went back to the SE compensator and haven't had any issues so far.
Awesome vid! And I personally think that if it's in there from factory there's a reason. For the most part at least. Cheers from frosty Alberta Canada 🇨🇦
You go above and beyond supplier loyalty to your customers. Very much appreciated!!! There are not very many people of your caliber in the world today, right up to our President and government. If our country was run by people of your caliber, this still would be the greatest nation on earth.
Thank you for this information I've been considering eliminating my compensator but after careful consideration I think I'll just replace it.
Thanks Kevin, great food for thought as always..photo bomb fly!
I'm convinced you are right especially on Twin Cam Softails with the way Harley assembles their crankshaft.
i put a Screamin Eagle Compensator in my 2008 96ci Road King, and i'm an old man that cruises the coast of NH and ME not racing, and for me that SE Compensator is AWESOME !! for me.
Kevin, I will be drag racing a 2002 fxdwg. Compensator Elininator 1st, final chain drive 2nd. Tell me 24 or 25 compensator sprocket
What do King of the Baggers normally run for a Comp set up,,I'm sure it varies do to "Sponsership" but in general? Solid,, SE,,Homogenous Comp etc
Dark Horse compensator only way to go it's a no-brainer cheers from Oz
Agreed. DHC does make a great product. Ride safe down under brother 🙏
Riding evo,s for 30 years me and my buddies never had a bad comp or noisy one and all running 20 hp or more ?
120 or more
The engine shaft side variator pulley on my moped is made of aluminum I've replaced it many times but it's a lot cheaper than a bent crank! I think this is a similar situation.
Sir all I have to say is this. Lol
As a Skunkworks 124, it has all the trimmings. She looks stock...but nowhere near it.
We start with Öhlins USA fork and shocks, a race ready Darkhorse Crankworks custom bottom end and motor sprocket, Baker Drivetrain Official Page DD7 and primary adjuster, Trask Performance billet clutch basket and air cleaner, @Bandit Sportsman clutch, S&S Cycle, Inc. gear drive with plate and pump, our own Skunkworks heads and cylinders, Horsepower Inc. throttle body, our blueprinted custom injectors, D&D Exhaust Billet Cat, @AIM slave cylinder, and ARP 12 point polished fasteners hold it all together.
Shes smooth as silk, easy to ride, but at 152hp and 148 torque, be ready when you whack on it.
After 13k and a few oil changes she’s still running like a Swiss watch, or better.
Awesome video, working on bikes myself for living for quite a few years and from time to time, not always but there will come a bike with its springs shattered inside needing spring discs replaced and good to go, and a good service of course. But on my case there tends to be a trend and these bikes for the most part have either neglected service such as regular km oil changes, and/or as you stated very aggressive along with a few bad habits when riding (conclusions made after talking to clients leading me to that) great content sir, a huge follower all the way from Chile, south America
I don't remember having this problem with 74 shovels?
Thanks Kevin, you've answered a lot of my questions. I will be doing the Dark Horse!
Kevin good video, I've got a 2008 CVO its my babe of choice, I have 76,842 on the clock I've had to replace the primary chain looked at my compensator there is very little wear. I'm a cruiser rider LD is weekly thing but from day one I changed oil products I'm my bike I contribute that to assisting in reduced friction less wear. I use a fully synthetic oil from Amisol. In all 9 of my bikes. Never had a comp failure.
I’ve been running Harley-Davidson’s Screaming Eagle Hole-Shot kit on my 02 FXSTB Nightrain with a maxed out 96 motor for 21 years it basically has less motor sprocket teeth than a stock one! But either way we’re made very well!
Good insight - My billet Comp and Evolution Industires New Comp Spring packs are a good match. Compensators are a serviceable item and should be looked at for wear and if worn replace'em. My guess is checking around 10-15k unless sooner is needed for some unforeseen reason.
Thank you, so in your opinion would you at least replace the stock ramp with a star or a moonshiners ramp?
Well Said!! Thank you sir.
here is my experience with the dark horse hybrid comp and an evolution complete stage one clutch basket. 2015 flhp. purchased with 1500 miles. like a fool i caused an issue with the clutch by installing a device to assist with the heavy clutch pull of the flhp. i believe it caused early problems with starting, finding neutral ETC. i installed a DH comp and Evolution complete set up with the billet inner-using blue springs. I had a VERY pronounced neutral rattle. also, some drive line noises until warmed up. after about 1000 miles, to satisfy my OCD, i tore it down to RE-check tolerances and torque specs. while doing so, i damaged the billet inner clutch basket so i ordered their steel one as a replacement (AND THE PROPER CLUTCH TOOL). All tolerances were WAY in spec. this time, I did change the way I installed the Compensator bolt. This time instead of cranking it to spec, I used the method in the manual. You have to season the threads by tq'ing to 100 ft lbs-----back it off and THEN crank it to full spec. (make sure to use a NEW comp bolt!) I even Re-used the same clutch plates. Quiet as a church mouse now. I'm VERY happy with the set up. THE ONLY negative is that at about 2800-3000 rpm, there is a bit of a shutter felt when at steady throttle. this is not from my tune. i'm using a thundermax auto tuner.
I agree the Dark Horse unit is a great way to go. I’ve got 2 years on mine with no issues. 2010 Softail Convertible street / strip.
What do you think of the baker comp. I have one and seems to work fine. The new shop looks great
FYI late forties Indian had compensators to prevent keyed shafts from spinning in the cast iron flywheel Harley borrowed the idea for their cast-iron flywheel in 1955. In the seventies Harley improve the compensators and in the eighties they discovered it was a great idea for spark knock. I worked at a Harley dealer in the early 70s and a old mechanic told me the truth of the compensator some companies have a compensator that copies the 70 style and other companies will copy the shovelhead Sturgis style. My friend George which was in charge of r&d at Talladega inform me they were going to a rubber cush drive in the rear wheel... So why do you need so why do you need a compensator. The main issue on 07 to present is the primary drive speed is greater than the 2006 and earlier
PS.. been wrenching on Harleys since 1963
I was wondering can you weld the rough side of the compensator an mill it back down,,,,
Just saw this video Kevin I thoroughly enjoy your videos they are very informative. I just upgraded my 2011 FLHX with a 96” TC motor with a new S&S Camchest kit, oil pump etc. based off watching your videos I took great care to measure everything to assure my crank and other areas within the camchest were in spec.
I replaced the stock compensator with a dark horse comp, Barnett clutch with the coil spring pressure plate to assure I had no issues in the primary. Since the upgrades I increased my torque to 110ftlbs. I had the bike tuned and put in a dyno it throws out respectable numbers for a stage 2 with my set up on that motor. Thank you for passing on your knowledge it definitely helps with making sound decisions.
Given, that The Motor Co.'s
45° narrow angle V-Twin, with a single crankpin, locating both connecting rods, and firing at 315, and 405° of crankshaft rotation, the power pulses are inherently uneven.
The coveted, signature "potato potato" idle note, has a price to pay.
Such is the nature of the beast.
Well said young man, as always.
Thanks Kevin. I have been doing research into what you just covered in your podcast. I have a 2018 HD Softail deluxe flde and I want to have work done on my primary side ie compensator, clutch etc.
Kevin, good chat on the subject, is there any way to tell if you have a compensator going bad other than tearing into it ?
I'm a little late but consider this. My '71 fx has a solid sprocket and has no provisions for electric start. The same vintage flh with electric start has a compensator. But I once owned a 250cc Ossa dirt bike that had a compensator very similar to the harley setup. My contention is the compensator is to ease the pain on the starter be it an electric motor or your leg. Keep in mind the Ossa ran full advance timing at all times and could be brutal to start. I might be wrong.
I am trying this year the Evolution Spring pack. So far I believe it is superior to Factory. Not allowing the ramp assembly to slide as much. I have a performance motor so I will let you know how long this modification last.