All About Engine Oils - Harley Indian Victory - Kevin Baxter - Pro Twin Performance
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ธ.ค. 2018
- For this tech talk, we cover details about engine oils, how they work, differences between conventional and synthetic, and why proper viscosity is so important.
- ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
Kevin has an almost Talmudic knowledge of his profession. Great to find someone who speaks the language with a teacher's passion and expertise and yet can articulate it so the rest of us can understand it. Another words, this guy knows his shit.
Thank you very much for the kind words and the comment. I appreciate you watching.
Kevin is way smart and humble too...
Smart to know all the facts. Down to earth to understand and explain.
This man is the real deal. His kind is what made America stand out from all others. Honest, intelligent and productive. I don't look up to too many men, but I can tell he is a good man. We all benefit from his knowledge. I know he enjoys his work. Love the flags behind him.
the best oil talk i have heard .Thank you.
Thank you
Great video btw! Never thought I'd watch an HOUR long video about oil, ha. Thank you for sharing.
Kevin thank you personally. Very thorough knowledge. We are lucky to have this information!!
Dang can’t believe I didn’t find you sooner awesome content the best I’ve seen keep it coming. Thx
Awesome channel! The JASO ratings that you generally see on motorcycle and powersports engine oils are MA and MA-2. The MA indicates that it is suitable for wet clutches, the MA-2 is the same, but better for catalytic converters. I have also found that they are better for the one way sprag clutches found in the starter drives on many bikes. I have replaced lots of wet clutches that slipped without being significantly worn due to automotive oil use. Also, the high service intervals are designed to lessen the mfg's exposure to environmental impact taxes, which are based on the projected amount of fluids that will need to be recycled or disposed of during the vehicle's lifetime. The high fluid change intervals are also used in marketing and sales, but are not necessarily in the end user's best interest's.
Great follow up comments Corban. Thank you!
I just found your channel this is the best I've seen on oils. Hope to hear more on Indian Motorcycle
Happy Holidays Kevin and crew! Merry Christmas!
love the info. i am doing a 10,000 service tomorrow. learned soooo much from this..
Watched 25 months after you made this, very informative, I did use Rotella in my Suzuki and Yamaha due to the lower level of lubricious for the clutch.
I just found this channel and this is exactly the kind of content I like. Facts mixed in with professional opinion. Subbed!
Awesome, thank you! Welcome aboard!
I agree 100%
Kevin, my friend, your tutorials come accross as Knowledgeable and accurate therefore i shall at this time, subscribe in order to broaden my collective knowledge simply put... Your awesome brother
Thanks for all of the great content.
Fantastic- loving this stuff. Lots of really good videos - so informative. Well done. Keep up the good work.
Many thanks!
Kevin ..
Thanks again. I've been riding since the early '70's.... I've learned more from you than ever before.
I've got a '00 FXDL with 40+k
And a '07 FLHRSE3 with 40+k
Your videos cause not only concern.... But contempt for the bean counters at HD.
Keep up the good work.
Much love and respect.
Great video!👍 I've been binge watching your videos since subscribing to your channel. Love the content!
Thank you Steve!
Great...you have a fine spirit...after 48 yrs of pans n shovels..finally bought a evo...my ol broke body like the comfort the flhtcu has..lol..thanks for the info on oil..peAce💜🤴
Hey Kevin thanx again man . I got a t thermometer. Dipstick to check my oil temp from HD. My oil after a 39mi ride was180 f with 73 degree outside temp. I double checked this with another known accurate thermometer got same temp. Today rode 20 MI at 45 degree and got 160 with both devices. I think its my fuel additive lowering the temp. But wouldn't have known except for your video so thanx again man.
Man I just found your channel this past week and wish I had years ago. Because the level of knowledge I've gained in just a week is beyond what I could ever expect.
the best explanation of motor oil, and it's makeup I ever heard. thanks!
thank you martin
I wish that my high school automotive teacher would have been able to explain things as well as you do. Never realized that there was as much to know regarding engine oil and how engines are built to use a specific grade.
Late comment on this video, but as a chemist I couldn't help but double take when you used the word molality, then correctly said that it was the mass of contaminant in the oil! Good job man!
Thank you sir! I'd never claim to have your expertise...but I do try my best to learn as much as possible from people more knowledgeable than I...then disseminate that information accurately. Not everyone that watches the channel is an expert in the field...and often my biggest challenge is presenting very complicated topics in a way most can understand. Thank you for recognizing it and your kind words.
Sounds good. I sold the 09 cross bone that I bought at mobile HD for how I was treated as a customer. I am going to need a new bike as soon as I get my feet back on the ground. Covid 19 put me in a big bine. Will stay up with what U are doing an put my order in ASAP. Glad U are doing this. U are a sort ride for me an I need a shop I can trust. God luck with this. I think it will be a big winner for U. A fan of the shop an post.
Great stuff, Kevin. I see many of the same questions on line all the time about which oil is best, blah, blah, blah... Unfortunately, rarely, if ever, does anyone provide the scientific and visual examples in response to the questions. You did! Thank you, sir!
A thorough and detailed discussion about oil. I really enjoy your videos Kevin! You are very technical but simplify things for us amateur mechanics! Thank you!!!
I appreciate that! Very kind of you to say. Thanks for the compliment and for following. Youre welcome...glad its valuable.
Here it is January 12th 2022 every time I need an answer or have a question all I do is go thumb through all your videos and you get more than what you ask for your explanations and your detailed to in-depth facts and not hearsay and blah blah blah is amazing you're intelligence is very much appreciated hats off to you sir and when you read this think about when you did this video and where you are today.
Thank you so much for the kind words sir. It's appreciated.
Good video. Always ran conventional H-D 20-50, with the H-D filter in a 2000 Road King, that I bought new. I did upgrade the oil pump. Sold it to friend, he is still riding it, never had the heads off. I'm guessing 50k plus miles, but I never went maximum mileage between services. Thanks again, I learned a lot.
Best oil discussion I have seen.
I also , Love this channel ! I'm gonna order my parts for my 06. Dyna Super Glide with you all ! Greetings from Asheville NC
Insane amount of useful info. Thanks.
Love it ... I’ve a dirty Harley engine, never understood why people skimp on oils, I always use good quality and change more regularly!!! Another fantastic video 👍👍😎👍👍
Believe it or not.. I have just recently found your channel. A hagged out ole biker I am.. gearhead.. not really.. just the basics..... But so far every vid I have seen of yours ….Bravo.. you make it easy to understand.. and your unbiased views that come based on experience other than motivated by $$ from some sponsor.... again.. much appreciated. Your vids make for this COVID lockdown. So here I sit.. binge watching your vids and learning...and loving it. Thanks you very much.
Thank you so much sir for the kind words. I'm glad you find it informative. Thanks for the subscription and for following along for the ride. all the best.
This dude squirtin knowledge bombs all over my screen and speakers.....Thanks man.
haha. Thank you sir!!!
Thank you for your comment Kevin. I will check my tensioners to give me peace of mind. I appreciate your expertise! Stay safe, and god bless you! A very informative site, thank you heaps!
Youre welcome. Good plan. Thank you sir...good luck!
Thank you for your time Kevin. Awesome video.
My pleasure!! Thank you.
Back in my old Shovelhead days, I have a friend of mine that rebuilt his own engine. He was one of Toyota's best techs in the country winning a national competition. He ran Pennsoil aircraft oil in the Shovel. Straight 70 weight. Never had an issue but we do live in SC where it is HOT.
Love your channel have watched most all of your Utube videos. I greatly appreciate you sharing your knowledge its been very helpful to me I'm not rich so I do my own wrenching thank you.
Awesome, thank you! i greatly appreciate the kind words.
I really have often wondered about the micro science of engine lubricant and turns out to be a lot less technical than than I thought. You did not start chuckling scientific terminology out confusing the more simple minded like me. Excellent video👍
Thank you!
I appreciate you 👍. I ride a 2009 HD Ultra Classic and always use 20w-50 Amsoil.
Hi Kevin-great content! Since inception I have always used HD Syn3 20W-50 in all 3 holes. However, I have recently switched to HD Syn 80W-140 for the Primary and Transmission (2008 FLSTC Anniv. Edition has done 60K km's, still running original compensator). I am of the opinion that this oil switch should provide tangible benefits. Appreciate your feedback. Unfortunately, Amsoil is not available in my country South Africa.
Finally an intelligent builder that tells the truth about Rotella.
I had a 2007 Buell XB12Scg that I bought brand new. I switched to Syn3 early on in the engine’s life and immediately that engine started leaking at multiple seals. I’ve been scared to use synthetic oils ever since.
Kevin thanks for some really great work .I read recently a comment from a life long H-D owner he said “ you have to maintain a motorcycle like you would an airplane.” I love my AMSOIL all three holes every 5 k
Try Redline Primary Fluid. Much smoother shifting on my Evo
Great job showing and telling about the oil and all the other stuff. Have a good one see ya next time see ya bye.
I'm going with amsoil. Thanks. Sounds like the children had a great time. Take care.
Thanks again for another informative video. I noticed that Harley changed up the interval as well. I think ( one of the reasons ) they did it is to save on the service plans they sell at time of purchase. You can buy a three year service plan and never even get one, 3 hole fluid change. Pretty crappy, that's how they reward loyalty. Thanks again Kevin !!
love you channel.. I just fount it with the 4 part M8 teardown
Hi Kevin, I genuinely enjoy every video, Thankyou. I see a few bikes not necessarily HD, have a centrifuge either internally or externally, to keep all the particle out of the oil. Still have oil filter as well. Have you heard any being fitted to HD Engines? Old technology, but extends engine life expectancy, along with top shelf Amsoil too.
Great video thank you. I have Mobil1 20W-50 motorcycle oil in my 06 Sportster 1200, and I can’t wait to put AMSOIL 20W-50 in it.
thank you. good luck!
Great info. I'm just a rider and not big on turning wrenches but I like to know how things work. Indian has since approved their 15W-60 full synthetic for all of their engines, air and water-cooled, which I found odd based on what you're saying about the heavier multi-weights and tight clearances.
Interesting re: Syn3 oil... One would assume (yeah, I know) that HD would not want an oil that does not actually work best with their own engines.. I've always been a bit skeptical of Amsoil.. So far, over 43K on the odometer of my '14 Ultra Classic w/o a single engine issue.. However, maybe I better reconsider my oil selection.. You have provided an excellent video explaining all this.. Kudos..
Mate, what a very informative channel. Stumbled across it by accident and as an owner of 7 motorcycles including 3 Harleys, I had to subscribe. I don't know why we can't get Amsoil here in Australia. If we could I'd snap it up for sure. I run Mobil 1 V Twin, after watching your VLOG I'll never use HD oil again. Why they hide there specs is very concerning. Ride Safe out there.
Thank you sir. Appreciate it. Loved my visits to OZ.
Great content, made very easy to understand
Glad you think so! thank you
Kevin. I listened to this video several times n took notes. I shared your video with the past owner of Camden county HD in N.J. who I had good dealings with back in 1993. His opinion is that he tried hi flo years ago n they don't flow enough n told me to stick with HD or k&n. Everyone has their opinion. This owner has an independent shop now.
Kevin love your channel, I have been using Amsoil in my Wife’s 2015 Switch Back and my 2016 Street Glide Special,which we bought new, I do all my own maintenance just so I can see all 3-holes magnets to see for myself how our bikes are performing, my wife’s bike have 33,000 miles and mine has 28,000 miles and magnets are always clean, I’ve been using Amsoil in all my Vehicles for 25 years with no problems.
Amsoil in all three holes or just the motor
Best oil video hands down. Got more tech talk coming? Subbed
Thank you for the education brother!!
Thanks for the reply, hopefully it's a good Filter like Amsoil claims !!
Great Channel Kevin 👏
Great content, Kevin. Just sub’d !
I’m glad I found this video again !! My neighbor has a 454 rebuilt Chevy he was running 2050 now he’s running synthetic 10w30 it’s got about 1000 miles on it he said it sounds and runs 10 times better then the thick Standard oil !! He said the lifters we’re making noise and he couldn’t believe me the thinner oil did wonders thank you !!
Yes sir...exactly! Proper viscosity can flow better. Good job advising your friend there...glad i could help.
I have watched this video at least a dozen times and still laugh my @$$ off every time you mention Rotella.
Good video on oils. About halfway in I found myself thinking about 60 weight SAE oil and kickstart only motorcycles. Would really give some good cardio trying to get the bike started on a 50 degree morning.
The most important thing is to change out the fluids and filter at regular intervals or sooner. Depending on severity of use. That's what will save your engine.
Citgo makes harley syn 3. Why I use amsoil. I agree its the best oil for any engine. Love your vids an ur a very intelligent man when it comes to bikes. I trust your word an would listen to your advice anytime
great enjoyed this one too.
Glad you enjoyed it
I run Amsoil 20/50 in my 2010 HD Heritage from the first oil change. I ran Castrol 20/50 in my old Shovelheads and never had any issues.
Mineral or synthetic oil?
very impressed Kevin
Great Explanation of Modern Oil I recommend Motorcycle Oil for Small Engines MC Oil takes the heat .
Your the guy to go to ! Very informative.
Such a refresh, this.
Great information Kevin!
I just bought a 2021 Heritage Classic with the M8 107ci engine. I love the bike, but I’m not a fan of the SYN-3 for the reasons you mentioned.
In your comments, you said you preferred AMSOIL Full Synthetic. Am I to assume you also recommend using AMSOIL in the transmission and primary also? I would really appreciate your thoughts. I know this is an older video, but your information and knowledge is priceless.
Thanks for any help you can offer.
Excellent channel.👍🏼🇺🇸
I loved your diagram on viscosity, but your vid title says, "All about oil"? In 1989 I bought a steel bearing oil test machine, an it's a good comparisons test platform I've studied all oils sold at Wal mart, an results show me there is one oil that out-test others! Over the years I've studied most oil fortified as well, an have my results listen! There are junk fortifiers an outstanding fortified that actually function! Thank for your videos I really like them, an helpful with my 03 fxdx!
My understanding from an older 2017 MSDS sheet for Harley Syn 3, which is hard to come by, is that Syn 3 made by CITGO (a U.S. oil company owned by the Venezuelan government) is only 60% Group III and Group IV (synthetic). It is advertised as full synthetic.
Great info thanks. For now I'll stick with H-D SAE 60 in the summer and H-D SAE 50 in the winter. I live in Phoenix where its 80 plus in the summer and 60 plus in the winter. I ride even when it's 115 degrees ambient air temp, which is brutal on multi-weight oils. I added an oil cooler to my 2003 Twin Cam as well as S&S cam plate, hydraulic chain tensioners and high flow oil pump. My 2020 already came with all that. Having any VI's scares me in this heat as I'm assuming if they break down from high temp/high sheering, the viscosity would go down. If I ever go synth, it would be AMSOIL SAE 60, which I heard acts as a 25w-60 I'm assuming without any VI's, which I could then use year round.
Thank you for finally settling this oil debate for me. Looks like it's Amsoil synthetic for my 17 Milwaukee 8
Youre welcome. There are many good oils out there. I don't claim any specific one is "the best". All I can do is compare specs, certs, and look at what I've seen over 30 years and a couple thousand engines. Once specific brand stands out to me and that's why I use it. Not blind brand loyalty, just observations. Hope that makes sense. LOL
@@KevinBaxter yes sir it does. I didn't realize Harley was hiding their information on the back of their oil containers. I don't like that either. Some conspiracy theorists would say maybe Harley doesn't want your engine to last as long so you'll trade it in on a new bike, right? 😂
They also dont tell you things like weight of fork oil...ssshhhh.....it's top secret. LOL
Kevin, I really enjoyed the video, a wealth of knowledge. And go easy on drinking SAE50...stick with multigrade..
Thanks Adrian. Tried multigrade then settled in on a straight 30 non detergent. Haha.
Great oil lesson, informative .... I would have liked an opinion on Red Line oils. Been running it for years in all 3 holes, every 5,000. I do use Harley oil filters though .... keep up the good work, sure appreciate it ...
Thank you!
One reason I do not run synthetics is , when I dump the used oil out of the catch basen there's no oil film left behind . It's dry . I used a 20/50 synthetic and when I switched back to mineral base the engine stopped clattering and ran muchsmoother and quieterwith an increase in mileage. I've used straight grade diesel oil for over 40 years and all the bikes have run great and still do . Hmm
Love your channel thow , probably the best on TH-cam for learning.
Just now found and watched this video on oils. Great info. You've sold me on AmsOil! But, I have a 2012 Heritage Softail w/ 103 stock twin cam. I did put slip on Cobra glass pack mufflers and a Cobra self monitoring and self adjusting fuel controller on it though. The bike had like 800 miles on it when I got it with a fresh dealer servicing. It now has approx 2500 miles on it. In 2016 Ingot sick with leukemia and the bike has sat without running for approx. 6_7 years now. I know I am ashamed and know better but I was seriously sick. I'd like to reservice my bike and start riding again in 2023 now that my health has improved. I have 2 questions: First what all should I do before attempting to crank the engine to prevent dry start or no lubrication on start up? I figured to at least put some oil down spark plug holes, but what else do I need to lube and service before attempting first start up? Second question is that before I got so sick, the bike ran better with the Cobra mufflers & fuel controller (it piggy backs into the stock controller) BUT it had a slight back pop off the rear cylinder muffler on deceleration. Is that anything to worry about? Ik ow this has been long but thanks for your patience and help!
Great video, question about the S&S oil pump and S&S cam plate . The oil pump has an idle pressure much higher than stock.
Should someone be concerned about the piston Oilers at idle? My concern is over oiling at idle. The Oilers will be oiling at idle as the check valve remain closed at 9-12 psi. At 12-15 psi it opens and if a hot idle is above that they keeps oiling. Is that an issue that the Oilers will always be working?
Back in the early 60's there was "Royal Triton" oil. It was purple. It did real good in my1956 Studebaker Hawk right up until I lost all my compression thru the rings. I did run best and fastest in class at the summer drags in Phoenix (Real hot here). Ran real good. Just didn't run very long.
I found the content interesting in quite funnyall's I can say is that the engine flush must have been done on a Monday or Fridaysomebody working at Harley must have had a good weekend or on Friday must have been looking forward to and it seems even without an extended warranty when you find something like that the manufacturer should be responsible again I'm a new subscriber and look forward to more what you do very informative and enjoyed watching
Kevin, I ride a '15 Heritage Classic all year long, where I live it gets below freezing some parts of the winter, but I still ride. I'd like your opinion on using 10w-50 or 15w-50 motorcycle oil (even though they do not say they're made for V-twins/Harley engines) in the crankcase during my winter rides?
Hey Kevin great talk track on a very emotive subject. What's your thoughts on the new recommendation to 'upgrade' the primary and gearbox oils to the heavy gear oils 80w-140. I ride a 2019 Sport Glide and am considering it?
Thanks Kevin for all the great work you do I have a 2014 street glide special was wondering what a good Oil filter would be I run 20 W 50 Amsoil
have a video coming on that very subject soon. thanks for subscribing.
@@KevinBaxter Kevin I would recommend to all your viewers to consider putting a digi oil pressure gauge on their ride..
Mine wasn't cheap lol even 10+ years ago,,, cause it was a H.D. one,,,, from who ever made it.
Even with me putting it on...
But it also still works lol
I will post a shot of it working
I very much enjoyed this video and made me a lot wiser. I have a question; I live in Mexico with high temps, the HD owners manual recommends SAE60 at this temps, yet know nobody using it. Should I use it? Many thanks, Mark
Love the channel and content. Saw a channel that did a show down of numerous automotive oils and hands down Amsoil beat the competition. And SYN 3 only has about 30% synthetic oil in it. Amsoil is 100% synthetic. Since you talked about filters, what’s your opinion on the K and P Engineering reusable oil filter?
Hi Kevin, I enjoy your videos very much, thank you for posting them.
Kevin, I own a 2016 Road Glide, I don't ride a lot and my Bikes millage is 750 miles, I got it brand new, do I need to do an oil change since its been so long or do I wait the 1,000 before I do it?
Also what would the correct oil brand and winter grade be? I live in Florida. Thank you Kevin for your advise, Jay.
Just watched your video on oil. It was a few years old but very informative. Do you use Amsoil in the primary and crank with a separate Amsoil in the transmission also I’m not sure what filter you like best.
excellent lecture
Thanks for the tip about Scott I keep getting busy ( and i'm retired, but I hope to get back this fall .
I remember my dealer not recommending a Harley oil cooler on my 2008, because they got clogged and caused problems. I hope the M8's don't have that issue but not sure.
I've also used Amsoil on all my vehicles for a very long time and have never had an engine issue. Ford, Chevy, Harley as well as compressor, lawn mowers, snow blower, you name it.
good choice sir!
"Thicker is not better" thank you...on so many levels! Watched.several of your vids, I think I woukd like you to do some (baxter) work for me. ie dd6 in an 01 flhutci 5spd w/ sprocket change to give me an od 6 + reverse. Can do?
Amsoil . Many years ago I became a firm believer in amsoil when a few of us were on a ride from Fairbanks to Anchorage Ak. And about half way through the run we were all stopped at a gas station when we noticed one of the riders had lost his oil filter . Had no idea when or how long we been riding with no oil in his bike . But he had been using amsoil for long time . This event happened in 2005 ish and he has never experienced any kind of mechanical failure due to that one time of losing the filter . After I witnessed that I’ve never strayed from amsoil in bike or trucks .
Had a 48 pan . Rode for about two years before the first tear down after I bought it. Found a broken oil pump key. Lord only knows how that thing didn’t freeze up!!!
Thanks for the oil video Kevin. I recently had an email exchange with a tech from Feuling and he said they only recommend K&N or Harley oil filters. He did not say anything about the 5 micron filter though.
Great video. I have a question about Rotella having too much detergent. Is .030 thick carbon buildup in the combustion chamber really a design feature hat helps compression and prevents detonation? Or did I misunderstand? I’ve watched a few of your videos and am learning a lot about the V twin world. Keep up the good work. Also,you talked about zinc being a good additive. I had a few bikes with a wet clutch and thought the zinc made the clutch plates too slippery. Not a problem with V twins?
.030 thick carbon is a bad thing. A little around the rings isn't though....a little being key word. As for wet clutch, thats where JASO MA ratings come in...that means they are designed for wet clutch applications with either synth or non.
@@KevinBaxter hi! Off the oil topic for a second but related to the carbon post. I sometimes use Race Gas and it leaves a orange colored residue on the plugs. I think they said it’s manganese…. dangerous or not to the parts inside the combustion chamber & rings? Thanks for the GREAT videos!
2017 Harley-Davidson with the M8 107 Just had the 30 Thousand Service done at the dealer. Up to now they been using H-D Syn3 oil. I told them I wanted to go with Amsoil in all three cases. I was pleasantly impressed when I drove out of Dealership. When I pulled in the clutch it felt like butter, I thought I had a brand new motorcycle. Not sure if it was my imagination but the top end sounded quieter also
You know your bike better than anyone because you ride it. I doubt it was your imagination. Glad it worked out well for you. Thanks for sharing.
@@KevinBaxter when I switched TO Lucas from another brand oil consumption increased considerably, prolly coincidental but I'll give Amsoil a try.
A friend of mine recommended your page, love it.
I tried to look for the answer to the question " No zinc in Canadians oil" I have been running amsoil for a while now and I change it every 4,500-5,000 km not miles, lucky to never have had any shavings but as she's getting over 90,000 km now and its a concern. Is there another way to get the zinc to help, have looked for some oil with zinc here but cant find any. Thanks and have a great day
Hi “uncle” Kevin.
Hope all is well with you and yours.
Are there different grades of Amsoil that should be used in Engine, trans and primary or should I use the same 20w50 in all 3 holes?
2004 Twin cam 88 King.
I have not mechanical work for years, so I have lost a little confidence but I used to do comprehensive jobs to mainly cars. But your videos have inspired me and I now aim to fix up my old King.
Thanx for all you keep giving. Keep it up. 😊
Thank you.
Cheers
John
Excellent video as always Kevin! You are my newest wikipedia for automotive stuff!! I ride a 2018 FLHTK Stage 2. Last week I switched my primary and transmission oil from regular HD 360 20W-50 to the newest Screamin Eagle Heavy Synthetic 80w-140 Gear oil. Trust me it is working like a magic!! The transmission and clutch are super smooth now and I see a noticeable improvement in pick up. This was recommended by my HD dealer. However for the engine oil, they asked me to stick to the regular HD 360 20w-50 oil only. Any idea why? I wanted to use the Screamin Eagle Syn 3 20W-50 synthetic oil hoping that a synthetic oil is any day better than the conventional oils. Appreciate your advise 👍
if youve been running std oil for a long time, just stick with it. Funny they just started offering the heavy gear oil. Been running amsoil 80w90 or 90w140 for 2 decades in HD trans.
@@KevinBaxter so which do you prefer that or the severe gear????