I saw a review on Steam that best described this game. "War Thunder is like an abusive partner. They treat you like shit but you keep coming back thinking they changed."
Personally, I think the amount of fun people have in this game does depend on skill level too. Someone who is capable of getting tons of kills per match may have more fun than someone who struggles to get a single kill most games.
Not necessarilly. The better you get, the more you expect and the better you need to do to hit that high. I can see it on myself. When playing a bad vehicle in a gamemode I'm not good at, I'll be happy about a single kill, yet when I'm playing a good vehicle in a gamemode I'm extremely capable at, not even an ace will make me feel much. Also, the better you are, the more likely you are to blame the game rather than saying it's your own skill issue.
My friend died a few years ago. The team still exists on Discord but almost no one is on it. I'm still on the team at WT and every now and then I stop by to see his name. I think it's still a way to keep him alive in my memory. You know, sometimes it seems like he's still going to say something stupid or simply give a warning to the community.
My theory about the spike at 80 to 90 is, that at that level players start to unlock their first top tierish vehicles, and are thus confronted with new things to be frustrated about (Cas sniping you from the other side of earth, BMP-2M, etc.), while they already became used to the the "normal" problems they faced at lower tiers
I have just got to 9.0+ and I don't want to play it, 1st death okay whatever, 2nd spawn, leave spawn, heli kills me, leave again cas bombs me. It's just trash gameplay and helps seem to be able to kill from 4km completely immune to most spaa
Grinded the 11.3 Germany squadron vehicle. First matches with stock HEAT-FS was painful but as soon as i unlocked APFDSsdeef i had several 7 kill games with only this tank in my arsenal. So it is fun (lvl 55 btw)
I enjoy top tier the most, you may just like ww2 content the most. I like the modern tech, it's a faster pace and when you learn the flow of the BR you are playing at I find that you can adjust and eventually have fun, but not everyone is the same. Granted I have thousands of hours logged on war thunder.@@RatTacticsOnly
@@mittensthefeared5401 Yeah your right mate, I absolutely love WW2 era and even cold war, I'd say anything past 8.7 just doesnt feel fun and makes me understand why people 1 death leave. Anytime I spawn more then one tank I get CAS or a Heli blow me up, sometimes twice. Only thing ive enjoyed about high tier is using SAM to take out the annoying air aha!
I play France, I've never seen that ever lmao. I'm happy when I get critical damage because that's some nice points when someone else finishes them off
I'm level 100 and have been playing for ages, and honestly the biggest issue with WT is the inconsistency. Last update they broke proxy fuses on some missiles, so now they can phase through enemies, and volumetric in general is horrible to deal with, like when I shoot a Panther in the mantlet with a 90mm shell that should go straight through but it just disappears into the void. If that was fixed the game would be so much more enjoyable
Last update? hah, I've seen sparrows and r27s phase through enemies for months, maybe they broke it even more? I don't know lol. But I 100% agree with you, the inconsistency is what kills it for me. it's like riding a motorbike that constantly breaks down for no reason ruining your fun and ride. If the general mechanics in warthunder; guns, penetration, armor, bombs, repairing, if it all just worked, I'd have a lot more fun then I do with all the issues I experience almost every single match.
That and they don't listen to the main players who play for a living and show where the issues are. Instead they balance via spreadsheet, which does fuck all for individual vehicles.
The way they balance off player statistics has to be the big one for me. We all know most new players pick Germany first so their inexperience leads to them dying more than they get kills. Meaning gaijin looks at the numbers and balances those vehicles around the dismal stats, like they are underperforming for their BR. But it’s really just the players in these tanks
@user-ns4zm8qe9p they should put 10 of the biggest streamers in a room and have them balance it out.. then release the results to the community to approve or disapprove. I bet it will be overwhelmingly approved. They have a legit stake in balance. Gajin doesn't. They want it unbalanced so people buy premiums.
I assume the annoyance spike at 80-90 is because youre around tier 6, 7, or 8 at that level, and so you may be low on silver lions after buying expensive things, having to stock grind, etc. The grind just gets worse as you level/progress in a tree
@@smiley7399 I have always saved up 1 million or more and then saved up the amount for the price to unlock the vehicle and the crew training amount, so that never affected me…
This is what I perceive as the current life cycle of a new player, and how that explains why the game remains so popular despite being unenjoyable. Attracted by advertisements featuring all sorts of advanced, modern combat vehicles, new players flood in, eager to play them(I will be just like Maverick in the F-14). They then download the game and find themselves faced with an insurmountable, overwhelming wall of vehicles they could not care less about, standing between them and their goal. Still unaware, and running off hype, they get grinding, encouraged to continue by rapid progress at lower tiers, until they hit a certain point where the amount of time they are able to invest results in negligible progress towards their goal. Realizing at this rate it will take many years to get their dream vehicle, I imagine many players get out their wallet and purchase a top tier premium vehicle, hoping to speed up their progress while simultaneously jumping ahead closer to where they actually wanted to play. Maybe they can even buy a top tier premium version of the vehicle they actually wanted, such as the XM-1 if they wanted the Abrams. Once this stage is reached, Gaijin has already won. The player has spent at least the price of a brand new triple AAA game, on a single vehicle in a free to play game. Even if the player quits now Gaijin could mostly care less. However, they won't. They will take out their new top tier premium and got promptly destroyed by experienced players at the higher tier, and, if they are playing ground, a one-death leaver has just been born since they have nothing else to put in their lineup. The player is now trapped by sunk cost due to the significant time and money they have invested, and probably no longer considers quitting to be an option, so they will continue to play and spend even more money trying to reach the vehicle or era that they think will turn everything around for them and finally make the game fun to play. "If I just get the MiG-29 I'll be top fragging every match, I just have to get through this bad part of the game first". (This is the stage of the players who constantly complain about the economy, research costs, the grind, repair costs, etc, their sole interest is accelerating their progress towards some imagined ideal era or vehicle, they are full-time grinders.) They will do this despite the game no longer being enjoyable for them to play. If they do ever end up reaching their end goal, they will probably realize it wasn't worth the hype, and maybe start revisting other parts of the game they overlooked or just grinded through, and since they have played so long by now they will be skilled enough that they start to realize the best part of the game is actually lower tiers, and maybe just maybe they will start to have a little actual fun.
Great insight and I agree. You may also consider the addition of watching certain prominent youtubers that edit HUNDREDS of games down into a 10 minutes series of maybe 4 or 5 clips showing how "fun" the game is.
The high annoyance in high levels is probably because they are more likely to play high BRs (grinding for the new stuff) at this level, there is an egregious power creep with new vehicles. If you get up tiered at anything around 8.0 or higher, you are almost guaranteed to lose and die quickly as these BRs are highly saturated by modern vehicles that Gaijin seems to be more focused on
yup, I'm grinding 6.7 U.S and I just see 7.7 up tiers as scout spot farms in the T92 because there's no way in hell my pershing can compete with early cold war soviet heavies, sabot/heat and early ATGMs, hell their armor is mid as far as heavy tanks go at their own BR let alone in an up tier
@@jimbothegymbro7086 I think the US really suffers from that. My mate mains the US and the early cold war / late WW2 US tanks have almost no pen making them useless. I remember grinding the UK a few years back when the Centurion Mk3 and it's derivatives were a 6.7 and I'd absolutely stomp every single game due to the high pen sabot and stabiliser. Only way to be ok in up tiers is to pick tanks based on firepower
Personally i love the game because of the immersion, and the real vehicles, i love learning about military vehicles and aircraft and war thunder has very high detail
@@BrenoAgmL It used to be very immersive back in the days. Back then, there was no "Realistic Battles", it was called "Historical Battles". If you played on Battle of Stalingrad, you were either going to be German or Soviet. You were simply unable to play that map if you played British for an example. Back then, I could never tire of the game. The immersion took away focus on the grind, and before you knew it, you had unlocked a new vehicle without even realizing it, because you actually *had fun*.
Kinda surprised those are the main complaints. There was a whole rebellion against Gaijin because of the Silver Lions and RP gains for every match. It has improved though so i guess that's why but still needs a bit more work imo. They're pretty heavily anti-consumer as well like you said. The BR and overall cheesiness of other players can be frustrating, especially recently. The IS-2 '44 is now 6.7 and it just cant compete it feels like.
i believe "currency grind" was mentioned only about 3-5 times, surprisingly. but yeah i think we saw how especially anti-consumer gaijin is with today's pack sale. all the popular packs were not on sale, but the ones nobody wants were 50% off lol
The fact alone players enjoy the game the most makes complete sense, imagine playing with your new friend, he loses all his tanks two minutes into the game, you want to play with him, but your crew will get locked, how can this be enjoyable.
I actually find 3.0-5.0 quite fun. The caveat is that starting off in those vehicles was a nightmare. Once I got expert in those vehicles and figured out the play style that works for me, it became much more fun. I haven't actually bought anything higher than my Tiger H1 or my M4A2 because those are my favorites
yeah, when beginning 3.0-5.0 is pretty annoying to play as the armor is non existent unless you play Germany, Russia, or America. But once you get to 6.0+ you kinda begin to revert back to 3.0-5.0 because it was a lot easier at that teir. And when you learn how to play at 3.0-5.0 you begin to play better than most.
@@theasiangod5860America? Armor? I mean I guess there’s the Jumbo (which also isn’t as reliable of armor from what I remember after months of not playing) but other than that….
@@sf-1_raptor Jumbo armor is really good. Most tanks which do not hold Heatfs, or apds will not pen. The american T34, T29, T30, T26e5, and t95 will tank just about everything that isn't heatfs or apds
@@theasiangod5860 Really? Cause it always seemed like the lights would struggle some, but it wasn’t like you could do all that much at that br either, especially after Gaijin removed rewards for blocking incoming fire. Plus it at least felt like you’d always run into some tank that could deal with it no problem, either cause the player was a good shot, or cause they had an 88, 120, or similar.
@sf-1_raptor with the jumbo it depends on which jumbo you're using. The 76 is uptiered to high hell so its like you said useless. However, the 75 is very good. It can block and ricochet just about everything thrown at it, even the 88. The only time it will not deflect a german 75, or 88 is when you're literally next to each other. Otherwise from 300 meters and farther you will deflect it all no problem. Aside from the 120mm aphe and 155mm he.
Personally i love the gameplay, it's what brings me back everyday, im a Level 100, 2,100 hrs in game, starting out was hard, learning about all of the tanks, and each weak spot and capabilities was a struggle, add gijjain moments and you get what seems like a hard game. I've played most of my hours by myself, and now that ive reached the top in a few nations, I really find that i need teammates, especially if i want to play say 10.3 or 10.7. I find that i do leagues better then most of my teammates because of premium players, i want to complain (still do once in awhile) but i know that i was once a new player with just the xm-1 and a m4a1 in my lineup.
@@stringzzzzz There are times where I wish there was skill based, especially when I first started. But I have a strong hate for skill based matchmaking in general, it killed call of duty for me, I like to try hard sometimes and other times I like to chill, in warthunder you really need to go at your own pace and that can change day to day, I've noticed that skill based matchmaking tends to force some higher skilled players to purposely lose and "derank" them selfs, ruining the game for both casuals and skilled players. I can definitely see skill based working for lower level or new players with modes for them.
@@ToastRepublic skill based matchmaking doesn't always have to be as strict as it is in cod. Thats also why i said wt is the only game id like it in because i feel that it can be implemented properly. Maybe something as simple as a 4v4 or 8v8 ranked mode or a "loose sbmm" system similar to what destiny 2 got last year. It would at least decrease the amount of noobs on both teams for the better players and just throw the rest of them in the same matchmaking pool every few matches.
@@stringzzzzz I understand that it doesn't have to be cod level, I find that Fortnite's implementation hits a sweet spot with a somewhat loose sbmm, but cod has left me with a hate for sbmm that i really cant explain and i tend to just hate sbmm by default because of it. tbh i've lost enough brain cells grinding this game, that i just cant be bothered to care about the teams anymore, i just let it be, after i started my new job ive been too tired to care, just wanna see tank go boooom.
I really feel like War Thunder is like that one guy that you don't want to invite to a party but as soon you both hangout you two are like a best buddy
IMO the reason why solo players have more fun than those who play with friends is that WT is SUPPOSED to be a team-based game, but in reality it really isn't and most players care only about themselves: they steal your frags, they stay in their bushes instead of pushing with you because they're too afraid of getting shot, they ignore the role of tanks in general and take all the sniper positions even if they play heavy tanks while you being a TD have to drive into city to be somewhat useful, nobody's gonna tow you behind a corner even if they're right next to you and you've been begging for it for over a minute, etc. So when you play alone, you're kinda expected to count only on yourself and that stuff stops boggling you pretty fast. But when you play in squad, you kinda tune yourself to collective work and, if your friends are good, you do it well, BUT it's only 4 of you and the rest 11 members of your team are still an egoistic uncoordinated mess which creates a strong dissonance in your head and resurrects your frustration about your teammates with a completely new strength, especially when you are losing which makes enemy team look so well organised compared to yours that it starts to feel that either the enemy are somehow playing in squad of 10, or your team was cherry picked and consisted of kids with special needs
Honestly, playing US ground mainly before finally having enough of the game, I feel the not wanting to move at all. Especially when US guns become a bit… unreliable once the Panthers start coming into the mix.
One of the things I have learned in this game is that when I see a Squad, I go where they go. It doesn't take long for me to figure out their strategy so, if it makes sense, I just tag along and try not to steal any of their kills, if I can help it.
I mean, i think people playing in squads ought to just go for enjoying goofy and stuff than trying to play all neatly. That asside, there's something i'd like to pick on. "Roles of tanks" surely you don't mean, rushing all over the map like call of duty kids, pushing third cap, or worse, spawn, when we already have two caps taken and just need to hold these to win, right? Right? Because in the first place the role of a tank is to be accompanied with infantry and recons to avoid getting ambushed, flanked, or trapped. And that's not even talking about war/fighting in general, where the role of a tank is to accomplish the task given to it, and when told to capture and hold strategic position, that doesnt mean to capture and then rush off to your death. That's called beeing overzealous, and can get you courtmartialed. So yeah, war thunser should be team based, and while i wont deny there's a fair lot of long range campers that does jackshit. There's way more pushers that achieve nothing for their bravado even when they are in groups of 5 to 6 likeminded people. Speaking from someone who often hold a single cap all match with up to 10 kills no death by "camping" the cap or area arround it, hiding and ambushing, while my team was too busy pushing spawn and getting ambushed while doing so.
@@thehatred94 of course I'm not talking about pushing everything from the get go, but about distribution of forces at the beginning of the match and advancing positions in case you're losing. In those scenarios it's just common sense: Heavy tanks are meant to be the spearhead because they're slow and not very maneuverable, so there's not much business for them on flanks and it's only natural for them to take the shortest route possible; despite armour not being meta for quite a while already, they still can shrug off SOME hits and take more punishment than others due to sheer size of their crew compartment and the fact that enemy would often need to use APCR or HEAT rounds that create much less fragmentation than APHE; and they generally have guns equal to or bigger than the light and medium tanks, so they can take on most of the enemies they might face there or at least stall them long enough for your teammates to take advantage of that without blowing up yourself Light tanks are fast and maneuverable, but very squishy and tend to have the least powerful guns, so there's no business in head-on combat for them-they excel at creating ambushes, securing the flanks in order to protect your heavy bros' soft sides and expose the enemy ones', scouting enemy positions and hunting down enemy snipers in case your snipers can't deal with them, and they generally can be very opportunistic, but not too aggressive TDs have powerful guns, low profile and sometimes decent front armour, but are BAD at most of other aspects, so no maneuverable combat, no leading anything and no positions where you can be attacked from multiple angles for them. They mostly have two roles: direct support in heavy on heavy/medium on heavy combat or sniping/camping positions on a good distance from the "main event" Medium tanks are, well, medium. They can support the operation of any of the above and even take their place although they would rarely be as proficient as "specialized" tanks at that specific task Of course, even within their classes tanks are pretty diverse, so there are exceptions and tweaks on what I wrote above, but I think you get the general idea. What made me write the "ignoring the tank roles" bit, aside from many other weird situations, was one particular battle: Poland, single cap in the city. Mostly Germany(our team) vs mostly US(enemy). The enemy starts pushing us out and starts trying to take the cap, so I take my last tank remaining, which is the FryingPan IV/70 and go on the hill across the lake where I see a nice camping company of three king tigers, one tiger E and a panther, who is the only one of the bunch to have a kill, and realise why there were so many enemies and so few of us when we got pushed back in the city. So I start fishing with them because there's really not much I cand do else and while fishing I try to convince these sunny children to maybe go help our team, but to no avail. Then our team gets pushed out of the city completely and enemy takes the cap, but there's still some room for comeback. I start begging them to go with me to help the team or at least do something in Russian, English, Spanish AND google-translated German-no reaction. As our team valiantly tries to re-enter the city using light vehicles and gets decimated, I realise that it can't be helped, and go alone all the way to the enemy spawn, enter the city from their side with my tank destroyer with no moving turret that is very needed in such tight conditions, get 6 or 8 kills(don't remember now) and decap the point before the enemy realise that there's a rat behind their lines and hunt me down with nearly all their forces, which would have been the perfect opening for our team if it didn't consist of one PZ.IV, two wirbelwinds AND THOSE FIVE SН*ТНЕАDS THAT COULD BE AN AMAZING FIST FOR THE COUNTEROFFENSIVE, BUT STOOD ON THAT HILL AIMLESSLY WAVING THEIR GUNS FROM THE START OF THE MATCH UNTILL ALL OF OUR POINTS TICKED OUT
We don't play it for the fun we play it for the fun "moments" when the other persons time is not fun its only fun when someone else is not having fun can only be both when your meeming around
Yeah that's why I bought the SU-11, cuz sometimes I just want to see the world burn and the screams of Fury and hopelessness I bring to an entire battle rating warms my twisted evil heart.
@dariusbendasiuk5678 bro you have literally the fastest acceleration in The BR before you, your BR and the Next BR, on top of that You are quite agile and one of the fastest jets in those BRs which combined with your ridiculous acceleration means That even if somebody else is faster than you so long as you fly at an angle not only will they never be able to catch up with you they will quickly lose speed and if they are stupid enough to keep chasing you they will become sitting ducks for you too turn on and rip apart. If you even know the very basics of energy fighting you are literally untouchable, You can enter and exit Any dog fight at will with zero repercussions and almost zero chance of losing it unless You tunnel vision and commit to it too hard. Remember that an enemy has to be within 700 meters of you to gun you down, If you start losing the dog fight just pull out and fly away, Even if they are paying close attention to what you were doing You will literally be over a kilometer away from them before they finish their turn to start chasing you, Your acceleration and top speed are simply ridiculous for the BR. Literally the only things that can keep up with you are rocket planes and those are rare and almost never used.
Not the greatest game I've played, but it's the best vehicle simulator and I enjoy it. The clear problem with this game is as they call it "the grind" and how long it takes a new player to obtain the modern vehicles they have seen in the War Thunder trailers. They recently lowered the experience and in game currency required to purchase some vehicles to make it easier on new players, but I don't think it makes any significant changes. A player doesn't need but is heavily influenced to get "Premium" time which costs real money but would increase your experience and currency gains. All of these predatory tactics aside, the game is free to play and if you aren't ready to spend a bit of money on the game you probably will not enjoy your time. Be warned.
Before they changed the research and SL I would actually lose SL every game I played at top tier, only profiting in extremely good games and that profit was just eaten on the next game. I had to play low tiers just to be able to afford new vehicles.
I think part of the reason level 80-90s have such a weird spike in complaints to rating is that they have started to break into top tier vehicles which have some of the most bs and annoying moments to them at times. (I had a game at 11.7 a few days ago where I got slapped by three enemy F-16Cs with paveway bombs at least 4+ times and my entire team got wiped cuz they would just kill anyone who spawned in pretty much instantly. This was in Ground Realistic btw.)
bro hear me out, ground arcade since high tier already has easy spots and point, click shooting but ground arcade has limited air spawns where they're effectively kill streaks, it's just straight up better and you can turn your brain off a little as a bonus
Playing with friends could lead to increased frustration if you die/run out of respawns early and have to sit and wait for one or more of your friends before you can get into the next match. You're also far more likely to face unfavorable BR or nation match-ups if your friends don't have the exact same BR or play the same nation as you. Unfortunately absolutely none of the data in this video was relevant to me as I only really played sim and my frustration with the game is entirely down to Gaijin never actually adding anything interesting or meaningful. They just pump out new vehicles and maps and never touch the same shitty game modes we've been stuck with for a decade.
People hate the other game, but their patch notes are like "We added a rock here because we realized it's more fair" and Gaijin is like "Made ammo explode more realistically"
I’ve been playing since September 2013 and usually alone. My approach to the game is to have as much fun as possible by not focusing too much on the grind, by just enjoying the matches I have along the ride. If I die or perform poorly I usually try to blame it on myself and ask where I can improvement. The potential of the game, the chance to try out historical vehicles and the fun you can get from having good matches is what kept me going for a decade. Until recently I had all air trees fully researched (air RB player for 95% of my time as a player all these years), top tier tanks for Russia and Germany, and I’m nearing top tier tanks for the Us and UK as well.
Unless it just a vehicle that's absolutely trash or is only in the way of getting better vehicles (eg: the second marder IFV, some of the swedish atgm carriers, some of the casemate 75mm ww2 german TD's)
Hey, lvl 100 player here. I do play with friends occasionally but I find my performance is vastly better while playing alone as I’ve only just started playing with friends. Playing with other people distracts me and leads to poor performance in the game. It’s hard to have a conversation and concentrate on hitting weak spots/ playing at the same time. We’re not at the Bo time gaming levels of team coordination so we don’t really work as a squad it’s basically a bunch of people in a call but all playing as if we were alone. On top of this if I run out of backups I have to stay in the match while I spectate my friends which depending on how well I did could be over 15 minutes of doing nothing and watching them. Whereas if I was playing alone I could just hop into the next match. Also playing with other people means a compromise on what you want to play. I prefer WW2 vehicles but a lot of the time I need to play higher br’s which I’m not used to/not comfortable with. Because they want to grind higher stuff. For instance I don’t like top tier jet gameplay. (As a ww2 ground rb enjoyer) so when I play that tier with friends I have to use a subsonic A7K event vehicle I got. Which means I can’t keep up with their jets and my game is just bomb in bases and getting the occasional missile or gun kill. Being slow means I’m also usually the last to die because they’re in the fight sooner. So they have to wait for me to die. This is just my take so obviously I don’t represent all of the people who enjoy playing alone over in a team.
For me playing with friends is more frustrating, while it allows for more teamwork and some niffty tactics interacting with them however is also taking away focus from the game. Therefor more deaths occur with less kills.
@@SoloLaVerdad876 having fun with friends is the priority. If the game just get's everyone frustrated and angry there is not much to be gained. Better to play other games with them in such a case.
To me, the secret ingredient to have fun in this game is getting hammered first. Or just (as I do now) never have it installed, never really play it anymore, and then notice it on friend's desktop when visiting and have fun taking turns (also being hammered while doing it)
What about profusive spawn killing? Ive joined matches where the team dies and leaves then theres me and a few others trying to get out of spawn at some point where you just get hammered. Map design is a massive factor id say
"This game has balanced the frustration and fun perfectly so even though you rage, you will still play it" I mainly play alone, generally because if i die and i run out of tanks ill have to wait for my friend, also because i perform better. And i play it because i want the shiny f15 and i want the shiny t80bvm. Im horrible at this game and i search the internet out of frustration quite often. Either that is because of cas spam, outrageous repair costs, the long grind, tiny rewards (only 30k sl and 5k rp for 7kills.
warthunder is unforgiving especially if you’re new but if you develop skills for the game it’s one of the most rewarding experiences in a game i’ve ever felt. i currently have 3409 hours in warthunder on steam.
As a level 100 with over 3k hours the only thing keep bringing me back is the joy of crushing newbie’s dream especially people who buy top tier premium the rage and fan mail I got is what keep me going
Im level 90 in the game, and although there are moments in the game that are annoying, I really love the game. I think people view the goal as getting to top tier which completly not what you want to do. I just try to have fun and get the fun vehicals which rarely are higher than 8.0..... vehicals like the axm50 surbias, tiger 1e, italian m26, and fv4005 are fun. I feel like the things that make us complain just make us appreciate the game even more when the game goes well which is more often than not.
You’re right, it’s not fun, but seeing those two red words sparks neuron activation. Only problem is that I have to get more and more as time goes on to feed my dopamine resistant brain nowadays.
Playing with friends can be annoying if you are trying to grind... Which for some people is the fun of it. I like the mix of both and feel it makes sense those rate it better
I have 1063 hours and last played it on the 11th January 2021. Quittibg this game is honestly one of the best decisions I made ans I regularly preach against this game when someone thinks about starting to play it. The reasons are many but the veterans know them.
excellent video, very fascinating I would say, after a certain skill level it's really just about the mentality you have behind playing the game. What expectations do you have for yourself and are you able to meet them? You can find players with high and low expectations for themselves at every level, but the ones who are level 100 tend to have found their balance, and what works for them I've really been enjoying learning Air RB. I've been a tank player since 2019, and was never very good at aircraft. So going back and spending time playing aircraft feels fun and rewarding, as I'm picking up a new skill. So I suppose I am in that "level 30" region even though I'm much higher level, because I'm effectively restarting the grind. Air RB is very fun to learn if you approach it right with a growth mindset anyhow, would be interested in seeing a video like this with a muuuuch larger sample size
a little late, but the most frustrating thing for me as a ground player is dying to things that I had no realistic way of preventing. things like my shell getting volumetric’d, being harassed and sniped by aircraft that I can’t fight back against or the team collapsing so fast that you can’t possibly squeeze out a win. on the other hand I love getting to drive my favorite vehicles and be rewarded for out-playing the enemy or just barely surviving an intense fight. there’s really nothing else like it and those fun moments keep me coming back. lvl 50 btw
3:42 I play solo and it could also be that being on a team gives you a greater feeling of control over the outcome of the game and creates a larger emitional connection
Funnily just before you said “echo chamber” which is exactly what I was about to comment and you said it as I was typing it 😂 so I completely agree. The variety in war thunder is great and that’s good, I find a lot of people move too fast up the tiers without understanding the systems or buy a vehicle up the tree expecting a better experience and that’s not the case. I hardly get annoyed at war thunder and generically sit at around brs 3 to 4 although I have much higher.
I got my first nuke yesterday and im still riding the high it gave me. I didn't even get to drop the bomb since time ran out during take off. Still i dopamine hit from just doing that good was incredible.
My biggest ting that gets me annoyed and even angry in matches is teammates, there is Minimal teamwork or communication (even less incentive) resulting in dying faster, getting rushed, loosing matches and feeling isolated. What feels better: Having to singlehandedly deal with 3 enemy fighters above you while your team chases after 1 bomber, or flying in formation and lighting up a enemy fighter who stall climbed after your teammate baiting. This could be assisted with more teamwork rewards, pairing players up into squads (like battlefield), more radio command options, more options to use on the maps (signs, arrows, warning; i.e. tactics), voice chat etc.
Haven't thought seriously with a database about this game like this! It was a very informative and great video. I personally feel NOT FUN when I die with "my own dumb skill issue"... which is the opposite of around 4:38 where 100 players feel happy with the gameplay and doing good. I need to practice more.
It makes me happy that Kana-san enjoyed my video :) I agree, this is when I feel it isn't fun. There were 2 or 3 other people, who wrote "my own skill issue" as a reason for not having fun, too lol!
personally I play the game because I dont have excess budget to build plastic models of military vehicles to make dioramas so I just grind them in warthunder (and also world of warships) its so much fuqqing stress but playing matches then taking pictures on replays afterwards satisfy my want for dioramas for nerdy reasons
I think the important factor most people miss is that you have to remember one thing "It's only a game." Why would you get angry or frustrated about a stupid little game with tanks and planes ? I have over 1000 hours and I don't remember ever not having fun, maybe because I play in smaller doses.
It is fun when the mechanics works properly, when it gives me the expected gameplay for most vehicle tanks that relies on armor should take a bit punishments(Most heavy tanks and some medium tanks) and tanks with good gun should be able to kill without problem(TD or IS-2 kind of tank) But sometimes, it just doesn't meet the expectations, which brings a lot of frustration(volumetric trolling, overtier, CAS in ground RB) And there are also some vehicles that're just not fun to play(mostly minor nation low tier and something that's just not viable and stock grinding)
I have been playing the game since closed beta. Not every year and not every month. I have noticed through the years that my war thunder tolerance reaches its limit at about 3 to 5 months. After that i just can't keep up with the grind and I just stop playing for months. Then I see a video or an update that catches my attention and I come back for a few more months. And repeat the cycle. Higher BR is def more frustating than lower BR. Still there is no other game like war thunder. Its beautiful. And some of us have addictions to fulfill. My 2 cents.
I find playing with friends is where I have the most fun in this game. It is not really an echo chamber of frustration. When my friends and I play we normally have moments of calm rational planning followed by insane amounts of panicking. It normally ends in sighs of relief or laughter as one of us is left to fend off a hoard of enemies. Not to mention when you have a hype moment like shooting a plane down with a tank or something of the sort. It is certainly more rewarding to share it immediately with your friends than it is to share later. And if we get absolutely annihilated we do our best to avenge each other, and then go on to the next one. I play Warthunder on my own often, but I can attest that it is significantly more enjoyable with friends.
3:19 was weirdly relatable, i quit war thunder for half a year at level 90; my longest break yet. still, i came back recently and found it to be much more enjoyable than i had made it out to be a the start of my break
The only way I still keep enjoying WT is to not play the top rank and learn to ignore the grind. There is much more fun at 1-7 tiers, learn to not even watch the RP/SL numbers. Unlocks are literally "the cake is a lie" meme thinking that the fun will start with this next cool vehicle. I play mostly Air RB/Sim and from the rank missles are introduced the skill requirements goes rapidly down and it is just a positioning game where you can loose without doing any mistakes. However, if I imagine my teen/adolescent self, I can imagine all the younger folks simply grinding as some kind of challenge to get bragging rights for people that have infinite time to waste on a game, even if they do not have much fun from individual games. Priorities change as you grow up, and this is still a game ;)
Lvl 100 here, been playing since 2012... As you play with friends you get soooooo many up tiers. You also have the issue of players not showing up at all until they fire and you die, even thought they were 50ft away. You spawn on a plane to bomb someone, but the fighters are 2400ft away which means you die instantly.
the game makes me rage so much but i always come back to play it for whatever reason and im a max lvl and still suck. i miss old war thunder where you get XP from killing players to lvl up to unlock other Stuff
i think the reason why playing with friends is so much more frustrating is that when you die you cant really just dip and move on to the next match meanwhile in solo the second i die i have already clicked the return to hanger button and can move onto the next match without caring. ive actually gotten so fast at returning to hanger that i consistently return to hanger before CAS can even land there bombs.
My solution to have a good time with the game was to just stop grinding and enjoy the game. Use vehicles I like the most, and just skip the frustrating ones etc. Now I play mostly 4.0 - 9.3 max. Also, with all the battle passes, events the game felt like another job to me, I just don't try to do these things anymore and it is such a relief... And rather than buying a month/6 months or year of premium time, try to buy just one day when you feel like you want to play war thunder, tadam - you are free to do something else without feeling bad about "premium running out" and you can still play the game for a few matches from time to time. With the new economy changes, it is much, much easier time for freemium players.
Level 100 (mainly air rb) player here Personally, just doing well at the game is my main enjoyment, and playing subsonics. Prop tiers are fun on occasion but you can have a lot less impact per match imo and they just generally go slower and have less rewards than jet matches. On the other hand of the spectrum, top tier is a missile slinging shitfest which I just cannot seem to keep up with, so I avoid playing it. I do not really have the luxury of playing with friends either due to time zone differences or my irl friends not playing war thunder. Someone else commented in a reply about performing well relative to the vehicle you're using, which is very true. I'm a big fan of the 262 C-2b, which has only gotten worse and worse indirectly throughout the years. First, it saw only other subsonics who could only push ~1000kmh if they were really pushing it. Then, faster planes began to be added. Then missiles. Now, it can even face a supersonic (the q-5a). Then map sizes increased, inadvertently nerfing its limited booster and its only viable fuel option (minfuel). For a final nail in the coffin, the drag nerfs decimated MK108s. Despite all of this, it is my most played plane and I thoroughly enjoy it despite its difficulties in use. Now, due to my skill and many hours, I can't honestly say a 3 kill match with it brings me much joy, but it certainly feels more rewarding than getting a 3k in a more competitive 8.0 such as the me163 or la15. My main annoyances come in BR compression at this point. I know there will always be balance issues; such is life. It is inherently difficult to balance planes with a terrible airframe and amazing weaponry. But when you have 8.0 planes able to face supersonics, or 9.0 korean war era jets facing 30G all aspect missiles, there's clearly an issue there. I think I speak on behalf of every player that isn't base rushing with their mirage F1C when I say that the playerbase wants decompressed matches instead of short queue times. I used to get quite upset at the game, but honestly as I grow older, I've mellowed out in general. I find it difficult to get upset while playing the game anymore. If I'm not enjoying the matches, I switch to a plane I know I can perform consistently well in and play that, or I quit for the day. I've quit trying to grind, mainly because I have every plane I enjoy playing, and getting the new shiny vehicle no longer interests me with how awful I know top tier is.
Tbh I enjoy the game but one of the most annoying things is when I'm short on sl, they should make it easier to come by or make things cheaper to some degree
Played on and off for over 10 years, mainly play Air RB, hit lvl 100 over half a decade ago. What makes me still play is: I'm a aviation nerd and it takes less time and effort to open up WT for a quick spin, than DCS or MSFS (requiring me getting joystick and pedals out) I don't play to grind, I play a lot of CB acrobatics, or just whatever I feel like If I grind, I only use a airplane that I actually enjoy and that isn't ruined by BR compression, and I might grind for max 1 day of any given week. I don't have a running prem. sub. that makes me feel I am wasting it, by not playing. If I don't have fun, I close the game. My biggest grapes with WT: BR compression Over demonetized economy, driven by player anxiety and frustration. Historically, Gaijin being a greedy company, that have a tendency to forget they have "Entertainment" in their company name.
I definitely agree with the lack of competition, even though I play WOT/WOWS more, the games are too different to be considered direct competition with each other
I have 800 hours in War Thunder, and I personally love the game, but goddamn do I wish it was pay to play sometimes. I'm primarily an Air RB player, so fighting against premium vehicles can be incredibly frustrating, especially when said vehicles are given completely unnecessary advantages that make them op. A prime example of this is the XP-50, which has an air spawn despite having a climb rate of 20 m/s, which is comparable to some variants of the Bf 109 and Spitfire. It just sucks having these very one sided engagements where if the premium pilot knows what they're doing, they're damn near untouchable. And then there's the cost of purchasing vehicles, which adds to the already insane grind. It took me almost 300 hours of daily playtime to get my first jet. I just wish I could have something similar or the exact same to WT, except with a 40 dollar price tag, only a third to a quarter of the current grind, and most of the premium stuff either removed or balanced.
I've been playing this game from 2018 till now, I started on PS4 which was pure suffering and struggle and even though I continue to play it. Then I moved to laptop and my games started to be more enjoyable (Mouse>>>Joystick) and funnier. I realised that if you are having fun in the game, other people is suffering and vice-versa, thanks to it, I learnt that the key for having fun in this game, is not caring when u die or get gaijined. We always get angry when we get killed or the shot should have destroyed the enemy but did nothing but we never realise that the same thing happens to others when they shoot you. It's not that the game doesn't like you and wanna make u angry, It's just the game not working properly for EVERYONE. Ofc it is annoying and frustrating, but in the end of the day it's just a game, we don't loose anything apart from SL or patience, we should have fun with it. If not, take a break and relax, when we are angry we make dumb decisions and get angrier. This was my humble opinion, thanks for reading
War Thunder is like life. It promises a lot at first and you will have a blast at the beginning, you love it but soon things get way too fast and complicated, you feel miserable and robbed and not good enough, overwhelmed. You wonder if it's still worth playing it or if you should just delete the account but now you're invested in it and you don't want to get out, you're hating it but you persist thinking about the big prizes at the end, however you don't have the strenght or the ability to get there. So you go back try remembering when you had the strenght and the ability, when you were loving it and you were winning and and then it strikes you, that you were winning ONLY because you were loving it MORE than you were hating it. And that's how you play War Thunder or life; you FIND a way of loving it MORE than you hate it.
My two biggest gripes with this game is the super lengthy grind, even with premium account time. And then the issues with balancing of vehicles, which will probably not be able to be gotten rid of without completely changing how vehicles br's are chosen or completely changing the system all together. Granted this second issue isn't too big of an issue personally, it's just my second biggest issue.
I have been playing since 2014/15. The simple truth is nothing has been able to come close to replacing the experience that War Thunder offers. I have taken multiple breaks through the years (half a year or more at a time). What really made me addicted to the game was buying premiums such as the T29 or T34100 in the early days, which pushed me into mid-tier (6-7 BR) and made the game more approachable. Currently I mainly play around 8.7 to 9.3 with premiums such as the T55AM1 or Khalid, but the truth is I havent spent money on this game for at least 4-5 years. I grind the events and sell the rewards at a later date, so the experience I have with the game is basically stress free. I just get a couple free premiums once a year and am able to enjoy the game that way (It's not like im playing the game every day every week throughout a year). Also whenever I'm playing I hang out with friends and we always go for the same premiums/lineups so we are more inclined to play.
I think the playing with friends thing could be survivorship bias. If you play the game alone, you enjoy it enough to choose it over other games. If you play with friends, you might be in a situation where you'd prefer to play another game, but your friend is playing War Thunder so you play it with them
One of the rare game with realistic damage model and performance that is not a hardsim, that got a playerbase large enought so you dont play with the same 20 people again and again and/or wait 3min for a game. Game wich are quick and intense enought to not get bored nor feel rushed. In short , despite all it s ballancing flaw and gring, it s a combination of realistic yet accesible gamplay with game quick enought that it s not bothersome, not found elswere.
So I’m a 4600 hour player with an account coming up on being 10 years old. I haven’t played all of those years, 2015-2017 was 3 years of not playing at all. Also when I started I had a garbage laptop that could hardly manage 2018 when I picked the game back up I had upgraded to flight simulator PC I started playing with friends however their interest in the game dropped while mine didn’t. Really none of my friends actively play anymore except for the very rare occasion for nostalgia. I think WT players on average enjoy the game more alone because it encourages it. There are next to no options or abilities encouraging squad play. Example: In the game Hunt Showdown weekly challenges progression is shared with the entire team. By that I mean if the challenge requires me to get a headshot then if my teammate gets the headshot it will count the challenge finished. Next would be would be the newcomer wall. The fact that daily challenges and events are Tier III+ centric and alienates casual friends who don’t have the time to grind out entire lineups of tier IIIs. If you’re alone you’re not dragging anyone into BRs they aren’t meant for. As for other aspects of the game: The game is very anti consumer with its whale market, no one sane should be paying 2 grand for a digital tank. Now all that said: Do I enjoy the game? I gave up on playing high tier just because the time required to spade a vehicle is too long for me to care. I mainly play 3.7-7.7 pretty much evenly across each nation playing vehicles I like. I am an tank enthusiast and I do feel WT has zero competition, to its detriment. I do feel the majority of the game is still to grindy even after recent changes particularly events. Crafting events I do not participate in anymore as they’re entirely boring and require time played on par with a full time job. Overall the level of detail and the interesting experience of learning different vehicles is the main reason I play.
the biggest problem imo is the FOMO the game creates... like u said, events are cordoned off for tier 3+ only, vehicles are $2000 because "durr its a super rare vehicle, of COURSE u should buy it!", and the fact that many event/bp vehicles either never come back or are buyable for exorbitant prices.
In my eyes, it’s all about perspective. Perspective means everything. I personally find War Thunder fun on some days, not so fun on other days. For example, if I’m going on a great game streak, getting kills and staying alive in my planes, I’m having fun. It’s because I’m doing good in the game and I’m preforming how I want to preform. On days that I’m not having fun, it’s when I’m dying quickly, kill stealing, or people who are just better than me getting the better of me. However, I find the overall excitement of not knowing exactly what to expect every game to be the fun part. You’ll need to slightly tweak your strategies, adapt to new situations, and learn to deal with certain tanks or aircraft accordingly. The fun part is the unpredictable and the gameplay of War Thunder, but many people don’t find this viewpoint as the same. I won’t call it a skill issue(even if it rightly is), but it’s all about perspective. War Thunder can be a pile of shit sometimes, but its *OUR* pile of shit.
Great Video! I just play and enjoy the Game for the Cinematic Potential it has, DCS is a lot better but also a lot Harder for that regard, I also just enjoy a few Sessions with Friends which are really funny!
As a great man once said "you can't call prison entirely fun although there are fun times but It doesn't sum up prison is fun, same goes as War Thunder "
I started playing this game on March, 9th 2013, after seeing an ad for it on FB, I loved the idea of flying classic, old school planes, like the Spitfire, Mustang, Hurricanes and alike, But one thing I started to hate was the constant cheating, kill stealing and team killing, then I moved to tanks and was getting one shot from across the map, constant spawn camping and still miles of cheating. I know they have banned a ton and a half for cheating, I do like playing around 3.7 to 4.0 and then to 6.3. There are still things like spawn camping, But I still love the classic planes and actual WWI vehicles. I am level 100, since there are a ton of Shermans and Leopards now, it would be nice to see some other tanks, even some that saw little action.
Been playing since 2013 and have close to 6k hours in the game. The secret to having fun is to never play above tier 4-5. That's what the game was originally focused on and it's where it is the most fleshed out and realistic. Tiers 2-3 are where the game shines, and where you should be spending most of your playtime. Just ignore all the shiny modern vehicles at higher tiers, the gameplay loop just isn't very good and the grind is horrendous. There are hundreds of vehicles to play under tier 5 so you will never run out of things to do
For me the Game is pretty perfect. But I also not bother with buying premium vehicles. I just go for a year of premium when the sale drops. That means my grind literally is cut by 50% . And still i think the grind could be less in certain areas (for example heli). Maybe they could introduce a new system that if you start with the game you can choose a nation that will give you a rank 1 premium plane, tank and also a coastal ship and as well a 20% boost on the income with you’re chosen nation for a month or something. That could keep a lot of people just trying out the game engaged with it. Additionally increasing the chances to actually get something out of daily chests etc. Just to make it more friendly to the beginner sort of audience. On the other hand if you reach an end of the line, rank 7/8, or whatever system they decided on you get this earlier mentioned bonus for a new nation that will be activated by a voucher. So veterans have a new motivation to grind a new nation. But all this ends up being only motivation for people to grind more at the end. I want to do more with my vehicles and that’s my type of stand. Not just hoping into another boring tank realistic match to in the end of the day grind again. I want cool events and scenarios on big historical maps depicting a certain battle/war that happened or could have happened. Giving fitting rewards and encourage team play, clan building and all this in an immersive big scale scenario. Much like they tried with world war mode. But it needs to be better implemented. And actually give cool rewards. And they always should be such a game mode in the game with out a pause. They need to learn to recycle some rewards from time to time. And they can pick for such a 2 week event (I think that’s fitting) some rewards or vehicles like ge vehicles fitting to the events theme. The event needs to be something like a simulator battle restricting you to use period accurate vehicles
I come back mostly for the fact that I have a yt channel that makes the game bearable. But also because of the hope that I can get that on 10 kill game, I haven’t had one in a week or two though, it’s getting annoying
I can find 2 different kinds of funs, 1 is pursuing the next vehicle which usually leads to complaints and more frustrating and playing general WW2 vehicles is generally peak performance. I do have a mix between playing with and without friends and always have more fun playing with playing friends.
Played the game for 10 years. It is undeniably cool to get to use interesting vehicles that have not seen the light of day in any videogame. There’s major flaws in the map design and they’re not very good at fixing them, and quite honestly it seems like the devs don’t know what makes a game fun with all the questionable changes they make. The grind sucks the soul out of anyone who is interested in many vehicles. A lot of the game revolves around unfair advantages as well. I know lots of people are drawn to the shiny modern stuff but the game sucks after the Cold War stuff. For a f2p game it’s pretty awesome, but overall it misses the marks of a good game.
You say it right about the cold war vehicles. After taking USSR up to 8.0, Sweden to 8.7, Germany to 9.3 And UK to 11.3 I've found the most fun in roughly the 7.3 - 9.3 range. I can get some fun out of top tier with either my challengers or Leopard 2's but it's far less frequent that I get a good game.
im level 31 in the game, and love it. I dislike some aspects like getting upteired when you have a hard time taking on vehicles at your BR already. Sometimes the physics can get a little wonky, like the time when my APCBC shell went through a german Pz.II without doing anything to it in a 4.0 game. Or when you interact with other vehicles physically you can get some interesting reality breaking things to happen...
I can agree, I play alone 99.9% of the time actually I used to play with some buddies but they are busy plus they/he mostly lives on the west coast and im on the east coast so there's like a 3 hour time difference 😢, that being said, ill het frustrated and rage for 30 seconds but couple minutes later youd never know unless im simply just havung a bad time playing all together which does happen
The lack of competition is really what sticks out to me. Personally I would rather play a single player narrative game/ scenario game. I thought this would happen with Gunner Heat PC, but as of right now it lacks depth and variety. WoT is as you said WAY too arcadey to be fun anymore, it feels dated. I am a military vehicle enthusiast, and no other game on the market has it all compressed into a single package like this. War Thunder can feel wildly inconsistent in matchmaker too. I can go from topping the team chart and raking in the kills, to my next match dying twice without ever seeing the enemy and having to go back to hangar. But when you do well? ohhhh yeah, thats the stuff. Seeing the "Target Destroyed" "Target Destroyed X2 (X3, etc)" is a dose of dopamine injected directly into your veins. If anything, we're all just a bunch of drug addicts chasing our dopamine high, trying in vain every game to match the hit we got that one time when we did really well. That's also why it's so easy to rage, too. You line up a shot, you know it's a kill shot, but then you "get gaijin'd" and your shot ricochets off of a surface that you KNOW it can pen, or alternatively you line up a shot and just before you pull the trigger you die to another shooter you didn't see. You were denied your hit of dopamine, and you lash out like a junkie. I'm lvl 100 with 1400hrs in the game.
Personally, I play for about a month at a time, slowly getting more and more annoyed at the game until I stop playing for a month or 2. Manly I get annoyed because I'm just bad at the game but I can't stop trying to play it because I'm just hoping to get that one good game where I get more than 1 or 2 kills lol
i look at as people with friends who play competitively will perfor better alone then in groups. But if you adn your buddies are just trolling around goofing off, you will on average have a 10X better experience.altough your team may not be too happy
my main problem with warthunder is that yea you don't have fun when you're bad at the game, but also that both the devs and the community actively hinder you getting better. as there isn't much of a mistake to learn from when you just spawn in and there is a hull down tiger 2 waiting for your spawn protection to go away or when you get finally start doing well and an(insert random us aircraft here) comes and ends your fun. I tried playing low tier to get better but I would find level 100s with 10 kills steam rolling each other's teams
Stockholm simulator the game
Stale gamemodes but oo shiny new plane. Has grown adults saying shit like " vark vark vark" 🤡
@@squigglycups5666Tankenstein.exe
@@squigglycups5666VARK VARK VARK VARK VARK VARK VARK VARK VARK
börk börk börk börk värk värk värk värk björk björk björk björk
Amen brotherther
I saw a review on Steam that best described this game.
"War Thunder is like an abusive partner. They treat you like shit but you keep coming back thinking they changed."
And for me, it goes well for a while when you come back, but then it starts returning back to the old stuff
@@cookiecrumbs2840 truly no finer example of a toxic relationship 🙂
lmao
LMAOOOO
true
Personally, I think the amount of fun people have in this game does depend on skill level too. Someone who is capable of getting tons of kills per match may have more fun than someone who struggles to get a single kill most games.
totally true, i guess the 3 main factors are level, skill, and who u play with
War thunder mobile grind torture 😅😅😅
Not necessarilly. The better you get, the more you expect and the better you need to do to hit that high.
I can see it on myself. When playing a bad vehicle in a gamemode I'm not good at, I'll be happy about a single kill, yet when I'm playing a good vehicle in a gamemode I'm extremely capable at, not even an ace will make me feel much.
Also, the better you are, the more likely you are to blame the game rather than saying it's your own skill issue.
Problem is you got a lot of people expecting to play this like a fps and fail
Why it's fun play naval via submarine I had already have type k sub and Kirov
My friend died a few years ago. The team still exists on Discord but almost no one is on it. I'm still on the team at WT and every now and then I stop by to see his name. I think it's still a way to keep him alive in my memory. You know, sometimes it seems like he's still going to say something stupid or simply give a warning to the community.
man …. :(
Rip 😭🙏
o7
I remenber back when a friend played with me..when he died he would help me with CAS and one day he disconnected and never went back online.
Poor dude. I miss all my buddies who never logged back in.
What’s his name/player tag? I wanna name a tank after him💕
My theory about the spike at 80 to 90 is, that at that level players start to unlock their first top tierish vehicles, and are thus confronted with new things to be frustrated about (Cas sniping you from the other side of earth, BMP-2M, etc.), while they already became used to the the "normal" problems they faced at lower tiers
I have just got to 9.0+ and I don't want to play it, 1st death okay whatever, 2nd spawn, leave spawn, heli kills me, leave again cas bombs me.
It's just trash gameplay and helps seem to be able to kill from 4km completely immune to most spaa
Helis
Grinded the 11.3 Germany squadron vehicle. First matches with stock HEAT-FS was painful but as soon as i unlocked APFDSsdeef i had several 7 kill games with only this tank in my arsenal. So it is fun (lvl 55 btw)
I enjoy top tier the most, you may just like ww2 content the most. I like the modern tech, it's a faster pace and when you learn the flow of the BR you are playing at I find that you can adjust and eventually have fun, but not everyone is the same. Granted I have thousands of hours logged on war thunder.@@RatTacticsOnly
@@mittensthefeared5401 Yeah your right mate, I absolutely love WW2 era and even cold war, I'd say anything past 8.7 just doesnt feel fun and makes me understand why people 1 death leave. Anytime I spawn more then one tank I get CAS or a Heli blow me up, sometimes twice. Only thing ive enjoyed about high tier is using SAM to take out the annoying air aha!
It suffers from "Monkey endorphin activation"...the brain see's "Target Destroyed" and it releases endorphins causing addiction.
Yup
I play France, I've never seen that ever lmao. I'm happy when I get critical damage because that's some nice points when someone else finishes them off
The sound😫
Ding
fuckkkk i love that shit
"Target Destroyed"
yup, thats pretty much it...
neuron activation
I'm level 100 and have been playing for ages, and honestly the biggest issue with WT is the inconsistency. Last update they broke proxy fuses on some missiles, so now they can phase through enemies, and volumetric in general is horrible to deal with, like when I shoot a Panther in the mantlet with a 90mm shell that should go straight through but it just disappears into the void. If that was fixed the game would be so much more enjoyable
Last update? hah, I've seen sparrows and r27s phase through enemies for months, maybe they broke it even more? I don't know lol.
But I 100% agree with you, the inconsistency is what kills it for me. it's like riding a motorbike that constantly breaks down for no reason ruining your fun and ride.
If the general mechanics in warthunder; guns, penetration, armor, bombs, repairing, if it all just worked, I'd have a lot more fun then I do with all the issues I experience almost every single match.
they completely messed up my focke wulf line and bf109 line just as I was about to buy a aircraft (bf109 k4) and research a jet aircraft.
That and they don't listen to the main players who play for a living and show where the issues are. Instead they balance via spreadsheet, which does fuck all for individual vehicles.
The way they balance off player statistics has to be the big one for me. We all know most new players pick Germany first so their inexperience leads to them dying more than they get kills. Meaning gaijin looks at the numbers and balances those vehicles around the dismal stats, like they are underperforming for their BR. But it’s really just the players in these tanks
@user-ns4zm8qe9p they should put 10 of the biggest streamers in a room and have them balance it out.. then release the results to the community to approve or disapprove. I bet it will be overwhelmingly approved. They have a legit stake in balance. Gajin doesn't. They want it unbalanced so people buy premiums.
I assume the annoyance spike at 80-90 is because youre around tier 6, 7, or 8 at that level, and so you may be low on silver lions after buying expensive things, having to stock grind, etc. The grind just gets worse as you level/progress in a tree
that makes a lot of sense actually
On 8 May, 2017 I was at level 60 with 4.7 Million Sl.
@@snipes_1138 And then it hits you with 500k SL vehicle cost
@@smiley7399 I have always saved up 1 million or more and then saved up the amount for the price to unlock the vehicle and the crew training amount, so that never affected me…
@@snipes_1138 Getting hit with 100k+ SL when i'm just on br 6.3 really makes me die inside
I play war thunder because I enjoy bringing myself great pain.
3500 hrs in
This is what I perceive as the current life cycle of a new player, and how that explains why the game remains so popular despite being unenjoyable. Attracted by advertisements featuring all sorts of advanced, modern combat vehicles, new players flood in, eager to play them(I will be just like Maverick in the F-14). They then download the game and find themselves faced with an insurmountable, overwhelming wall of vehicles they could not care less about, standing between them and their goal.
Still unaware, and running off hype, they get grinding, encouraged to continue by rapid progress at lower tiers, until they hit a certain point where the amount of time they are able to invest results in negligible progress towards their goal. Realizing at this rate it will take many years to get their dream vehicle, I imagine many players get out their wallet and purchase a top tier premium vehicle, hoping to speed up their progress while simultaneously jumping ahead closer to where they actually wanted to play. Maybe they can even buy a top tier premium version of the vehicle they actually wanted, such as the XM-1 if they wanted the Abrams.
Once this stage is reached, Gaijin has already won. The player has spent at least the price of a brand new triple AAA game, on a single vehicle in a free to play game. Even if the player quits now Gaijin could mostly care less. However, they won't. They will take out their new top tier premium and got promptly destroyed by experienced players at the higher tier, and, if they are playing ground, a one-death leaver has just been born since they have nothing else to put in their lineup. The player is now trapped by sunk cost due to the significant time and money they have invested, and probably no longer considers quitting to be an option, so they will continue to play and spend even more money trying to reach the vehicle or era that they think will turn everything around for them and finally make the game fun to play. "If I just get the MiG-29 I'll be top fragging every match, I just have to get through this bad part of the game first".
(This is the stage of the players who constantly complain about the economy, research costs, the grind, repair costs, etc, their sole interest is accelerating their progress towards some imagined ideal era or vehicle, they are full-time grinders.)
They will do this despite the game no longer being enjoyable for them to play. If they do ever end up reaching their end goal, they will probably realize it wasn't worth the hype, and maybe start revisting other parts of the game they overlooked or just grinded through, and since they have played so long by now they will be skilled enough that they start to realize the best part of the game is actually lower tiers, and maybe just maybe they will start to have a little actual fun.
Great insight and I agree. You may also consider the addition of watching certain prominent youtubers that edit HUNDREDS of games down into a 10 minutes series of maybe 4 or 5 clips showing how "fun" the game is.
The high annoyance in high levels is probably because they are more likely to play high BRs (grinding for the new stuff) at this level, there is an egregious power creep with new vehicles. If you get up tiered at anything around 8.0 or higher, you are almost guaranteed to lose and die quickly as these BRs are highly saturated by modern vehicles that Gaijin seems to be more focused on
yup, I'm grinding 6.7 U.S and I just see 7.7 up tiers as scout spot farms in the T92 because there's no way in hell my pershing can compete with early cold war soviet heavies, sabot/heat and early ATGMs, hell their armor is mid as far as heavy tanks go at their own BR let alone in an up tier
@@jimbothegymbro7086 I think the US really suffers from that. My mate mains the US and the early cold war / late WW2 US tanks have almost no pen making them useless. I remember grinding the UK a few years back when the Centurion Mk3 and it's derivatives were a 6.7 and I'd absolutely stomp every single game due to the high pen sabot and stabiliser. Only way to be ok in up tiers is to pick tanks based on firepower
Personally i love the game because of the immersion, and the real vehicles, i love learning about military vehicles and aircraft and war thunder has very high detail
Is Very imersive playing with a T-54 against a jagdpanther in red desert USA.
@@BrenoAgmL😂
Just remember: Made in Russia
@@BrenoAgmL
It used to be very immersive back in the days. Back then, there was no "Realistic Battles", it was called "Historical Battles".
If you played on Battle of Stalingrad, you were either going to be German or Soviet. You were simply unable to play that map if you played British for an example.
Back then, I could never tire of the game. The immersion took away focus on the grind, and before you knew it, you had unlocked a new vehicle without even realizing it, because you actually *had fun*.
@@BrenoAgmLBro litterally recited the wt ad read
Kinda surprised those are the main complaints. There was a whole rebellion against Gaijin because of the Silver Lions and RP gains for every match. It has improved though so i guess that's why but still needs a bit more work imo. They're pretty heavily anti-consumer as well like you said. The BR and overall cheesiness of other players can be frustrating, especially recently. The IS-2 '44 is now 6.7 and it just cant compete it feels like.
i believe "currency grind" was mentioned only about 3-5 times, surprisingly. but yeah i think we saw how especially anti-consumer gaijin is with today's pack sale. all the popular packs were not on sale, but the ones nobody wants were 50% off lol
The fact alone players enjoy the game the most makes complete sense, imagine playing with your new friend, he loses all his tanks two minutes into the game, you want to play with him, but your crew will get locked, how can this be enjoyable.
I actually find 3.0-5.0 quite fun. The caveat is that starting off in those vehicles was a nightmare. Once I got expert in those vehicles and figured out the play style that works for me, it became much more fun. I haven't actually bought anything higher than my Tiger H1 or my M4A2 because those are my favorites
yeah, when beginning 3.0-5.0 is pretty annoying to play as the armor is non existent unless you play Germany, Russia, or America. But once you get to 6.0+ you kinda begin to revert back to 3.0-5.0 because it was a lot easier at that teir. And when you learn how to play at 3.0-5.0 you begin to play better than most.
@@theasiangod5860America? Armor? I mean I guess there’s the Jumbo (which also isn’t as reliable of armor from what I remember after months of not playing) but other than that….
@@sf-1_raptor Jumbo armor is really good. Most tanks which do not hold Heatfs, or apds will not pen. The american T34, T29, T30, T26e5, and t95 will tank just about everything that isn't heatfs or apds
@@theasiangod5860 Really? Cause it always seemed like the lights would struggle some, but it wasn’t like you could do all that much at that br either, especially after Gaijin removed rewards for blocking incoming fire. Plus it at least felt like you’d always run into some tank that could deal with it no problem, either cause the player was a good shot, or cause they had an 88, 120, or similar.
@sf-1_raptor with the jumbo it depends on which jumbo you're using. The 76 is uptiered to high hell so its like you said useless. However, the 75 is very good. It can block and ricochet just about everything thrown at it, even the 88. The only time it will not deflect a german 75, or 88 is when you're literally next to each other. Otherwise from 300 meters and farther you will deflect it all no problem. Aside from the 120mm aphe and 155mm he.
Personally i love the gameplay, it's what brings me back everyday, im a Level 100, 2,100 hrs in game, starting out was hard, learning about all of the tanks, and each weak spot and capabilities was a struggle, add gijjain moments and you get what seems like a hard game. I've played most of my hours by myself, and now that ive reached the top in a few nations, I really find that i need teammates, especially if i want to play say 10.3 or 10.7. I find that i do leagues better then most of my teammates because of premium players, i want to complain (still do once in awhile) but i know that i was once a new player with just the xm-1 and a m4a1 in my lineup.
That's the spirit, but yeah 1lifers annoy the shit out me specially when half the team is gone within 3 minutes of the game
For this reason, war thunder is the only game i would like skill based matchmaking to be a feature in.
@@stringzzzzz There are times where I wish there was skill based, especially when I first started. But I have a strong hate for skill based matchmaking in general, it killed call of duty for me, I like to try hard sometimes and other times I like to chill, in warthunder you really need to go at your own pace and that can change day to day, I've noticed that skill based matchmaking tends to force some higher skilled players to purposely lose and "derank" them selfs, ruining the game for both casuals and skilled players. I can definitely see skill based working for lower level or new players with modes for them.
@@ToastRepublic skill based matchmaking doesn't always have to be as strict as it is in cod. Thats also why i said wt is the only game id like it in because i feel that it can be implemented properly. Maybe something as simple as a 4v4 or 8v8 ranked mode or a "loose sbmm" system similar to what destiny 2 got last year. It would at least decrease the amount of noobs on both teams for the better players and just throw the rest of them in the same matchmaking pool every few matches.
@@stringzzzzz I understand that it doesn't have to be cod level, I find that Fortnite's implementation hits a sweet spot with a somewhat loose sbmm, but cod has left me with a hate for sbmm that i really cant explain and i tend to just hate sbmm by default because of it. tbh i've lost enough brain cells grinding this game, that i just cant be bothered to care about the teams anymore, i just let it be, after i started my new job ive been too tired to care, just wanna see tank go boooom.
Remember
You're allowing yourself to have fun when the fun's being taken from others
I really feel like War Thunder is like that one guy that you don't want to invite to a party but as soon you both hangout you two are like a best buddy
More like the best buddy who constantly abuses you.
IMO the reason why solo players have more fun than those who play with friends is that WT is SUPPOSED to be a team-based game, but in reality it really isn't and most players care only about themselves: they steal your frags, they stay in their bushes instead of pushing with you because they're too afraid of getting shot, they ignore the role of tanks in general and take all the sniper positions even if they play heavy tanks while you being a TD have to drive into city to be somewhat useful, nobody's gonna tow you behind a corner even if they're right next to you and you've been begging for it for over a minute, etc.
So when you play alone, you're kinda expected to count only on yourself and that stuff stops boggling you pretty fast. But when you play in squad, you kinda tune yourself to collective work and, if your friends are good, you do it well, BUT it's only 4 of you and the rest 11 members of your team are still an egoistic uncoordinated mess which creates a strong dissonance in your head and resurrects your frustration about your teammates with a completely new strength, especially when you are losing which makes enemy team look so well organised compared to yours that it starts to feel that either the enemy are somehow playing in squad of 10, or your team was cherry picked and consisted of kids with special needs
Honestly, playing US ground mainly before finally having enough of the game, I feel the not wanting to move at all. Especially when US guns become a bit… unreliable once the Panthers start coming into the mix.
One of the things I have learned in this game is that when I see a Squad, I go where they go. It doesn't take long for me to figure out their strategy so, if it makes sense, I just tag along and try not to steal any of their kills, if I can help it.
I mean, i think people playing in squads ought to just go for enjoying goofy and stuff than trying to play all neatly.
That asside, there's something i'd like to pick on. "Roles of tanks" surely you don't mean, rushing all over the map like call of duty kids, pushing third cap, or worse, spawn, when we already have two caps taken and just need to hold these to win, right? Right?
Because in the first place the role of a tank is to be accompanied with infantry and recons to avoid getting ambushed, flanked, or trapped.
And that's not even talking about war/fighting in general, where the role of a tank is to accomplish the task given to it, and when told to capture and hold strategic position, that doesnt mean to capture and then rush off to your death. That's called beeing overzealous, and can get you courtmartialed.
So yeah, war thunser should be team based, and while i wont deny there's a fair lot of long range campers that does jackshit. There's way more pushers that achieve nothing for their bravado even when they are in groups of 5 to 6 likeminded people.
Speaking from someone who often hold a single cap all match with up to 10 kills no death by "camping" the cap or area arround it, hiding and ambushing, while my team was too busy pushing spawn and getting ambushed while doing so.
@@thehatred94 of course I'm not talking about pushing everything from the get go, but about distribution of forces at the beginning of the match and advancing positions in case you're losing. In those scenarios it's just common sense:
Heavy tanks are meant to be the spearhead because they're slow and not very maneuverable, so there's not much business for them on flanks and it's only natural for them to take the shortest route possible; despite armour not being meta for quite a while already, they still can shrug off SOME hits and take more punishment than others due to sheer size of their crew compartment and the fact that enemy would often need to use APCR or HEAT rounds that create much less fragmentation than APHE; and they generally have guns equal to or bigger than the light and medium tanks, so they can take on most of the enemies they might face there or at least stall them long enough for your teammates to take advantage of that without blowing up yourself
Light tanks are fast and maneuverable, but very squishy and tend to have the least powerful guns, so there's no business in head-on combat for them-they excel at creating ambushes, securing the flanks in order to protect your heavy bros' soft sides and expose the enemy ones', scouting enemy positions and hunting down enemy snipers in case your snipers can't deal with them, and they generally can be very opportunistic, but not too aggressive
TDs have powerful guns, low profile and sometimes decent front armour, but are BAD at most of other aspects, so no maneuverable combat, no leading anything and no positions where you can be attacked from multiple angles for them. They mostly have two roles: direct support in heavy on heavy/medium on heavy combat or sniping/camping positions on a good distance from the "main event"
Medium tanks are, well, medium. They can support the operation of any of the above and even take their place although they would rarely be as proficient as "specialized" tanks at that specific task
Of course, even within their classes tanks are pretty diverse, so there are exceptions and tweaks on what I wrote above, but I think you get the general idea. What made me write the "ignoring the tank roles" bit, aside from many other weird situations, was one particular battle: Poland, single cap in the city. Mostly Germany(our team) vs mostly US(enemy). The enemy starts pushing us out and starts trying to take the cap, so I take my last tank remaining, which is the FryingPan IV/70 and go on the hill across the lake where I see a nice camping company of three king tigers, one tiger E and a panther, who is the only one of the bunch to have a kill, and realise why there were so many enemies and so few of us when we got pushed back in the city. So I start fishing with them because there's really not much I cand do else and while fishing I try to convince these sunny children to maybe go help our team, but to no avail. Then our team gets pushed out of the city completely and enemy takes the cap, but there's still some room for comeback. I start begging them to go with me to help the team or at least do something in Russian, English, Spanish AND google-translated German-no reaction. As our team valiantly tries to re-enter the city using light vehicles and gets decimated, I realise that it can't be helped, and go alone all the way to the enemy spawn, enter the city from their side with my tank destroyer with no moving turret that is very needed in such tight conditions, get 6 or 8 kills(don't remember now) and decap the point before the enemy realise that there's a rat behind their lines and hunt me down with nearly all their forces, which would have been the perfect opening for our team if it didn't consist of one PZ.IV, two wirbelwinds AND THOSE FIVE SН*ТНЕАDS THAT COULD BE AN AMAZING FIST FOR THE COUNTEROFFENSIVE, BUT STOOD ON THAT HILL AIMLESSLY WAVING THEIR GUNS FROM THE START OF THE MATCH UNTILL ALL OF OUR POINTS TICKED OUT
We don't play it for the fun we play it for the fun "moments" when the other persons time is not fun its only fun when someone else is not having fun can only be both when your meeming around
Yeah that's why I bought the SU-11, cuz sometimes I just want to see the world burn and the screams of Fury and hopelessness I bring to an entire battle rating warms my twisted evil heart.
@dariusbendasiuk5678 bro you have literally the fastest acceleration in The BR before you, your BR and the Next BR, on top of that You are quite agile and one of the fastest jets in those BRs which combined with your ridiculous acceleration means That even if somebody else is faster than you so long as you fly at an angle not only will they never be able to catch up with you they will quickly lose speed and if they are stupid enough to keep chasing you they will become sitting ducks for you too turn on and rip apart.
If you even know the very basics of energy fighting you are literally untouchable, You can enter and exit Any dog fight at will with zero repercussions and almost zero chance of losing it unless You tunnel vision and commit to it too hard.
Remember that an enemy has to be within 700 meters of you to gun you down, If you start losing the dog fight just pull out and fly away, Even if they are paying close attention to what you were doing You will literally be over a kilometer away from them before they finish their turn to start chasing you, Your acceleration and top speed are simply ridiculous for the BR.
Literally the only things that can keep up with you are rocket planes and those are rare and almost never used.
Not the greatest game I've played, but it's the best vehicle simulator and I enjoy it. The clear problem with this game is as they call it "the grind" and how long it takes a new player to obtain the modern vehicles they have seen in the War Thunder trailers. They recently lowered the experience and in game currency required to purchase some vehicles to make it easier on new players, but I don't think it makes any significant changes. A player doesn't need but is heavily influenced to get "Premium" time which costs real money but would increase your experience and currency gains. All of these predatory tactics aside, the game is free to play and if you aren't ready to spend a bit of money on the game you probably will not enjoy your time. Be warned.
If you play certain countries, it will be easier though cuz I'm a f2p and currently 1 tier away from top tier...................... after a few months
I just don't grind. I always have fun.
Before they changed the research and SL I would actually lose SL every game I played at top tier, only profiting in extremely good games and that profit was just eaten on the next game. I had to play low tiers just to be able to afford new vehicles.
I think part of the reason level 80-90s have such a weird spike in complaints to rating is that they have started to break into top tier vehicles which have some of the most bs and annoying moments to them at times. (I had a game at 11.7 a few days ago where I got slapped by three enemy F-16Cs with paveway bombs at least 4+ times and my entire team got wiped cuz they would just kill anyone who spawned in pretty much instantly. This was in Ground Realistic btw.)
Spot on, grinding stock high or top tier vehicles is the slowest, and leaves you at an objective disadvantage vs others for a very long time.
bro hear me out, ground arcade since high tier already has easy spots and point, click shooting but ground arcade has limited air spawns where they're effectively kill streaks, it's just straight up better and you can turn your brain off a little as a bonus
It's like scrolling through tiktok, shorts, and any kind of social media apps... not good for you, but its hard to escape it
Playing with friends could lead to increased frustration if you die/run out of respawns early and have to sit and wait for one or more of your friends before you can get into the next match. You're also far more likely to face unfavorable BR or nation match-ups if your friends don't have the exact same BR or play the same nation as you.
Unfortunately absolutely none of the data in this video was relevant to me as I only really played sim and my frustration with the game is entirely down to Gaijin never actually adding anything interesting or meaningful. They just pump out new vehicles and maps and never touch the same shitty game modes we've been stuck with for a decade.
People hate the other game, but their patch notes are like "We added a rock here because we realized it's more fair" and Gaijin is like "Made ammo explode more realistically"
I’ve been playing since September 2013 and usually alone. My approach to the game is to have as much fun as possible by not focusing too much on the grind, by just enjoying the matches I have along the ride. If I die or perform poorly I usually try to blame it on myself and ask where I can improvement. The potential of the game, the chance to try out historical vehicles and the fun you can get from having good matches is what kept me going for a decade. Until recently I had all air trees fully researched (air RB player for 95% of my time as a player all these years), top tier tanks for Russia and Germany, and I’m nearing top tier tanks for the Us and UK as well.
To me I like the feeling of accomplishment and whenever I unlock a new tank or plane I get that neuron activation
Until you realise you're going to need to stock grind it 😂
@@bliboblob620 bro don’t remind me 💀⚰️
Unless it just a vehicle that's absolutely trash or is only in the way of getting better vehicles (eg: the second marder IFV, some of the swedish atgm carriers, some of the casemate 75mm ww2 german TD's)
Hey, lvl 100 player here. I do play with friends occasionally but I find my performance is vastly better while playing alone as I’ve only just started playing with friends.
Playing with other people distracts me and leads to poor performance in the game. It’s hard to have a conversation and concentrate on hitting weak spots/ playing at the same time. We’re not at the Bo time gaming levels of team coordination so we don’t really work as a squad it’s basically a bunch of people in a call but all playing as if we were alone.
On top of this if I run out of backups I have to stay in the match while I spectate my friends which depending on how well I did could be over 15 minutes of doing nothing and watching them. Whereas if I was playing alone I could just hop into the next match.
Also playing with other people means a compromise on what you want to play. I prefer WW2 vehicles but a lot of the time I need to play higher br’s which I’m not used to/not comfortable with. Because they want to grind higher stuff.
For instance I don’t like top tier jet gameplay. (As a ww2 ground rb enjoyer) so when I play that tier with friends I have to use a subsonic A7K event vehicle I got. Which means I can’t keep up with their jets and my game is just bomb in bases and getting the occasional missile or gun kill. Being slow means I’m also usually the last to die because they’re in the fight sooner. So they have to wait for me to die.
This is just my take so obviously I don’t represent all of the people who enjoy playing alone over in a team.
this is exactly the player archetype i expect to have the most fun in war thunder
For me playing with friends is more frustrating, while it allows for more teamwork and some niffty tactics interacting with them however is also taking away focus from the game. Therefor more deaths occur with less kills.
I think the friends should be the priority
@@SoloLaVerdad876 having fun with friends is the priority. If the game just get's everyone frustrated and angry there is not much to be gained. Better to play other games with them in such a case.
@@dotMSOffice Absolutely
To me, the secret ingredient to have fun in this game is getting hammered first.
Or just (as I do now) never have it installed, never really play it anymore, and then notice it on friend's desktop when visiting and have fun taking turns (also being hammered while doing it)
What about profusive spawn killing? Ive joined matches where the team dies and leaves then theres me and a few others trying to get out of spawn at some point where you just get hammered. Map design is a massive factor id say
ironically, ive been planning on a "most hated map" video
for soviet players with poor gun depression, the maps are full of cover made useless by the sloping terrain.
"This game has balanced the frustration and fun perfectly so even though you rage, you will still play it"
I mainly play alone, generally because if i die and i run out of tanks ill have to wait for my friend, also because i perform better.
And i play it because i want the shiny f15 and i want the shiny t80bvm.
Im horrible at this game and i search the internet out of frustration quite often.
Either that is because of cas spam, outrageous repair costs, the long grind, tiny rewards (only 30k sl and 5k rp for 7kills.
warthunder is unforgiving especially if you’re new but if you develop skills for the game it’s one of the most rewarding experiences in a game i’ve ever felt. i currently have 3409 hours in warthunder on steam.
As a level 100 with over 3k hours the only thing keep bringing me back is the joy of crushing newbie’s dream especially people who buy top tier premium the rage and fan mail I got is what keep me going
Im level 90 in the game, and although there are moments in the game that are annoying, I really love the game. I think people view the goal as getting to top tier which completly not what you want to do. I just try to have fun and get the fun vehicals which rarely are higher than 8.0..... vehicals like the axm50 surbias, tiger 1e, italian m26, and fv4005 are fun. I feel like the things that make us complain just make us appreciate the game even more when the game goes well which is more often than not.
You’re right, it’s not fun, but seeing those two red words sparks neuron activation. Only problem is that I have to get more and more as time goes on to feed my dopamine resistant brain nowadays.
Playing with friends can be annoying if you are trying to grind... Which for some people is the fun of it. I like the mix of both and feel it makes sense those rate it better
I have 1063 hours and last played it on the 11th January 2021.
Quittibg this game is honestly one of the best decisions I made ans I regularly preach against this game when someone thinks about starting to play it.
The reasons are many but the veterans know them.
excellent video, very fascinating
I would say, after a certain skill level it's really just about the mentality you have behind playing the game. What expectations do you have for yourself and are you able to meet them? You can find players with high and low expectations for themselves at every level, but the ones who are level 100 tend to have found their balance, and what works for them
I've really been enjoying learning Air RB. I've been a tank player since 2019, and was never very good at aircraft. So going back and spending time playing aircraft feels fun and rewarding, as I'm picking up a new skill. So I suppose I am in that "level 30" region even though I'm much higher level, because I'm effectively restarting the grind. Air RB is very fun to learn if you approach it right with a growth mindset
anyhow, would be interested in seeing a video like this with a muuuuch larger sample size
hoping to get more people in the discord so the sample sizes can be bigger in the future :3
( discord.gg/wubb )
a little late, but the most frustrating thing for me as a ground player is dying to things that I had no realistic way of preventing. things like my shell getting volumetric’d, being harassed and sniped by aircraft that I can’t fight back against or the team collapsing so fast that you can’t possibly squeeze out a win.
on the other hand I love getting to drive my favorite vehicles and be rewarded for out-playing the enemy or just barely surviving an intense fight. there’s really nothing else like it and those fun moments keep me coming back.
lvl 50 btw
3:42 I play solo and it could also be that being on a team gives you a greater feeling of control over the outcome of the game and creates a larger emitional connection
Funnily just before you said “echo chamber” which is exactly what I was about to comment and you said it as I was typing it 😂 so I completely agree. The variety in war thunder is great and that’s good, I find a lot of people move too fast up the tiers without understanding the systems or buy a vehicle up the tree expecting a better experience and that’s not the case. I hardly get annoyed at war thunder and generically sit at around brs 3 to 4 although I have much higher.
The things that make this game aggravate me is the never ending CAS in ground rb and getting a whole rank up tiered
I’m level 100 and have over 2600 hours in the game, it causes me immense pain but I still love it
I got my first nuke yesterday and im still riding the high it gave me. I didn't even get to drop the bomb since time ran out during take off. Still i dopamine hit from just doing that good was incredible.
My biggest ting that gets me annoyed and even angry in matches is teammates, there is Minimal teamwork or communication (even less incentive) resulting in dying faster, getting rushed, loosing matches and feeling isolated. What feels better: Having to singlehandedly deal with 3 enemy fighters above you while your team chases after 1 bomber, or flying in formation and lighting up a enemy fighter who stall climbed after your teammate baiting.
This could be assisted with more teamwork rewards, pairing players up into squads (like battlefield), more radio command options, more options to use on the maps (signs, arrows, warning; i.e. tactics), voice chat etc.
Haven't thought seriously with a database about this game like this! It was a very informative and great video.
I personally feel NOT FUN when I die with "my own dumb skill issue"... which is the opposite of around 4:38 where 100 players feel happy with the gameplay and doing good. I need to practice more.
It makes me happy that Kana-san enjoyed my video :)
I agree, this is when I feel it isn't fun. There were 2 or 3 other people, who wrote "my own skill issue" as a reason for not having fun, too lol!
personally I play the game because I dont have excess budget to build plastic models of military vehicles to make dioramas so I just grind them in warthunder (and also world of warships)
its so much fuqqing stress but playing matches then taking pictures on replays afterwards satisfy my want
for dioramas for nerdy reasons
I think the important factor most people miss is that you have to remember one thing "It's only a game." Why would you get angry or frustrated about a stupid little game with tanks and planes ? I have over 1000 hours and I don't remember ever not having fun, maybe because I play in smaller doses.
It is fun when the mechanics works properly, when it gives me the expected gameplay for most vehicle
tanks that relies on armor should take a bit punishments(Most heavy tanks and some medium tanks) and tanks with good gun should be able to kill without problem(TD or IS-2 kind of tank)
But sometimes, it just doesn't meet the expectations, which brings a lot of frustration(volumetric trolling, overtier, CAS in ground RB)
And there are also some vehicles that're just not fun to play(mostly minor nation low tier and something that's just not viable and stock grinding)
I find playing solo actually has me face similarly skilled opponents, whereas when I play with my brother I end up against uber sweats.
I have been playing the game since closed beta. Not every year and not every month. I have noticed through the years that my war thunder tolerance reaches its limit at about 3 to 5 months. After that i just can't keep up with the grind and I just stop playing for months. Then I see a video or an update that catches my attention and I come back for a few more months. And repeat the cycle. Higher BR is def more frustating than lower BR. Still there is no other game like war thunder. Its beautiful. And some of us have addictions to fulfill. My 2 cents.
For me, the painful and endless grind is the worst part of war thunder
I find playing with friends is where I have the most fun in this game. It is not really an echo chamber of frustration. When my friends and I play we normally have moments of calm rational planning followed by insane amounts of panicking. It normally ends in sighs of relief or laughter as one of us is left to fend off a hoard of enemies. Not to mention when you have a hype moment like shooting a plane down with a tank or something of the sort. It is certainly more rewarding to share it immediately with your friends than it is to share later. And if we get absolutely annihilated we do our best to avenge each other, and then go on to the next one. I play Warthunder on my own often, but I can attest that it is significantly more enjoyable with friends.
I'm level 4, brand new and play with a friend exclusively, just doubled your resourse pool 😂
Is spreadsheet is oddly accurate, good job Wubb!
3:19 was weirdly relatable, i quit war thunder for half a year at level 90; my longest break yet. still, i came back recently and found it to be much more enjoyable than i had made it out to be a the start of my break
The only way I still keep enjoying WT is to not play the top rank and learn to ignore the grind. There is much more fun at 1-7 tiers, learn to not even watch the RP/SL numbers. Unlocks are literally "the cake is a lie" meme thinking that the fun will start with this next cool vehicle. I play mostly Air RB/Sim and from the rank missles are introduced the skill requirements goes rapidly down and it is just a positioning game where you can loose without doing any mistakes.
However, if I imagine my teen/adolescent self, I can imagine all the younger folks simply grinding as some kind of challenge to get bragging rights for people that have infinite time to waste on a game, even if they do not have much fun from individual games. Priorities change as you grow up, and this is still a game ;)
Lvl 100 here, been playing since 2012... As you play with friends you get soooooo many up tiers. You also have the issue of players not showing up at all until they fire and you die, even thought they were 50ft away. You spawn on a plane to bomb someone, but the fighters are 2400ft away which means you die instantly.
the game makes me rage so much but i always come back to play it for whatever reason and im a max lvl and still suck. i miss old war thunder where you get XP from killing players to lvl up to unlock other Stuff
i think the reason why playing with friends is so much more frustrating is that when you die you cant really just dip and move on to the next match meanwhile in solo the second i die i have already clicked the return to hanger button and can move onto the next match without caring. ive actually gotten so fast at returning to hanger that i consistently return to hanger before CAS can even land there bombs.
My solution to have a good time with the game was to just stop grinding and enjoy the game. Use vehicles I like the most, and just skip the frustrating ones etc. Now I play mostly 4.0 - 9.3 max.
Also, with all the battle passes, events the game felt like another job to me, I just don't try to do these things anymore and it is such a relief...
And rather than buying a month/6 months or year of premium time, try to buy just one day when you feel like you want to play war thunder, tadam - you are free to do something else without feeling bad about "premium running out" and you can still play the game for a few matches from time to time.
With the new economy changes, it is much, much easier time for freemium players.
Level 100 (mainly air rb) player here
Personally, just doing well at the game is my main enjoyment, and playing subsonics. Prop tiers are fun on occasion but you can have a lot less impact per match imo and they just generally go slower and have less rewards than jet matches. On the other hand of the spectrum, top tier is a missile slinging shitfest which I just cannot seem to keep up with, so I avoid playing it.
I do not really have the luxury of playing with friends either due to time zone differences or my irl friends not playing war thunder.
Someone else commented in a reply about performing well relative to the vehicle you're using, which is very true. I'm a big fan of the 262 C-2b, which has only gotten worse and worse indirectly throughout the years. First, it saw only other subsonics who could only push ~1000kmh if they were really pushing it. Then, faster planes began to be added. Then missiles. Now, it can even face a supersonic (the q-5a). Then map sizes increased, inadvertently nerfing its limited booster and its only viable fuel option (minfuel). For a final nail in the coffin, the drag nerfs decimated MK108s. Despite all of this, it is my most played plane and I thoroughly enjoy it despite its difficulties in use. Now, due to my skill and many hours, I can't honestly say a 3 kill match with it brings me much joy, but it certainly feels more rewarding than getting a 3k in a more competitive 8.0 such as the me163 or la15.
My main annoyances come in BR compression at this point. I know there will always be balance issues; such is life. It is inherently difficult to balance planes with a terrible airframe and amazing weaponry. But when you have 8.0 planes able to face supersonics, or 9.0 korean war era jets facing 30G all aspect missiles, there's clearly an issue there. I think I speak on behalf of every player that isn't base rushing with their mirage F1C when I say that the playerbase wants decompressed matches instead of short queue times.
I used to get quite upset at the game, but honestly as I grow older, I've mellowed out in general. I find it difficult to get upset while playing the game anymore. If I'm not enjoying the matches, I switch to a plane I know I can perform consistently well in and play that, or I quit for the day. I've quit trying to grind, mainly because I have every plane I enjoy playing, and getting the new shiny vehicle no longer interests me with how awful I know top tier is.
Tbh I enjoy the game but one of the most annoying things is when I'm short on sl, they should make it easier to come by or make things cheaper to some degree
Played on and off for over 10 years, mainly play Air RB, hit lvl 100 over half a decade ago.
What makes me still play is:
I'm a aviation nerd and it takes less time and effort to open up WT for a quick spin, than DCS or MSFS (requiring me getting joystick and pedals out)
I don't play to grind, I play a lot of CB acrobatics, or just whatever I feel like
If I grind, I only use a airplane that I actually enjoy and that isn't ruined by BR compression, and I might grind for max 1 day of any given week. I don't have a running prem. sub. that makes me feel I am wasting it, by not playing.
If I don't have fun, I close the game.
My biggest grapes with WT:
BR compression
Over demonetized economy, driven by player anxiety and frustration.
Historically, Gaijin being a greedy company, that have a tendency to forget they have "Entertainment" in their company name.
It’s Like a Toxic Relationship you can’t get out of and when you do you somehow get into it 😂
I definitely agree with the lack of competition, even though I play WOT/WOWS more, the games are too different to be considered direct competition with each other
lol I hate playing alone because I get mad in the first battle. When I play with my friends, I can play more than 4 hours straight x)
I have 800 hours in War Thunder, and I personally love the game, but goddamn do I wish it was pay to play sometimes. I'm primarily an Air RB player, so fighting against premium vehicles can be incredibly frustrating, especially when said vehicles are given completely unnecessary advantages that make them op. A prime example of this is the XP-50, which has an air spawn despite having a climb rate of 20 m/s, which is comparable to some variants of the Bf 109 and Spitfire. It just sucks having these very one sided engagements where if the premium pilot knows what they're doing, they're damn near untouchable. And then there's the cost of purchasing vehicles, which adds to the already insane grind. It took me almost 300 hours of daily playtime to get my first jet. I just wish I could have something similar or the exact same to WT, except with a 40 dollar price tag, only a third to a quarter of the current grind, and most of the premium stuff either removed or balanced.
i feel that there are pros and cons to being a paid game, but the pros definitely outweigh the cons
For me... I love playing with underrated tanks and making weird tanks work
I've been playing this game from 2018 till now, I started on PS4 which was pure suffering and struggle and even though I continue to play it.
Then I moved to laptop and my games started to be more enjoyable (Mouse>>>Joystick) and funnier.
I realised that if you are having fun in the game, other people is suffering and vice-versa, thanks to it, I learnt that the key for having fun in this game, is not caring when u die or get gaijined.
We always get angry when we get killed or the shot should have destroyed the enemy but did nothing but we never realise that the same thing happens to others when they shoot you.
It's not that the game doesn't like you and wanna make u angry, It's just the game not working properly for EVERYONE.
Ofc it is annoying and frustrating, but in the end of the day it's just a game, we don't loose anything apart from SL or patience, we should have fun with it.
If not, take a break and relax, when we are angry we make dumb decisions and get angrier.
This was my humble opinion, thanks for reading
Part of the game's design is literally to piss you off so you pay up.
War Thunder is like life. It promises a lot at first and you will have a blast at the beginning, you love it but soon things get way too fast and complicated, you feel miserable and robbed and not good enough, overwhelmed. You wonder if it's still worth playing it or if you should just delete the account but now you're invested in it and you don't want to get out, you're hating it but you persist thinking about the big prizes at the end, however you don't have the strenght or the ability to get there. So you go back try remembering when you had the strenght and the ability, when you were loving it and you were winning and and then it strikes you, that you were winning ONLY because you were loving it MORE than you were hating it. And that's how you play War Thunder or life; you FIND a way of loving it MORE than you hate it.
My two biggest gripes with this game is the super lengthy grind, even with premium account time. And then the issues with balancing of vehicles, which will probably not be able to be gotten rid of without completely changing how vehicles br's are chosen or completely changing the system all together. Granted this second issue isn't too big of an issue personally, it's just my second biggest issue.
I have been playing since 2014/15. The simple truth is nothing has been able to come close to replacing the experience that War Thunder offers. I have taken multiple breaks through the years (half a year or more at a time). What really made me addicted to the game was buying premiums such as the T29 or T34100 in the early days, which pushed me into mid-tier (6-7 BR) and made the game more approachable.
Currently I mainly play around 8.7 to 9.3 with premiums such as the T55AM1 or Khalid, but the truth is I havent spent money on this game for at least 4-5 years. I grind the events and sell the rewards at a later date, so the experience I have with the game is basically stress free. I just get a couple free premiums once a year and am able to enjoy the game that way (It's not like im playing the game every day every week throughout a year). Also whenever I'm playing I hang out with friends and we always go for the same premiums/lineups so we are more inclined to play.
I think the playing with friends thing could be survivorship bias. If you play the game alone, you enjoy it enough to choose it over other games. If you play with friends, you might be in a situation where you'd prefer to play another game, but your friend is playing War Thunder so you play it with them
One of the rare game with realistic damage model and performance that is not a hardsim, that got a playerbase large enought so you dont play with the same 20 people again and again and/or wait 3min for a game. Game wich are quick and intense enought to not get bored nor feel rushed.
In short , despite all it s ballancing flaw and gring, it s a combination of realistic yet accesible gamplay with game quick enought that it s not bothersome, not found elswere.
So I’m a 4600 hour player with an account coming up on being 10 years old. I haven’t played all of those years, 2015-2017 was 3 years of not playing at all. Also when I started I had a garbage laptop that could hardly manage 2018 when I picked the game back up I had upgraded to flight simulator PC
I started playing with friends however their interest in the game dropped while mine didn’t. Really none of my friends actively play anymore except for the very rare occasion for nostalgia.
I think WT players on average enjoy the game more alone because it encourages it. There are next to no options or abilities encouraging squad play.
Example: In the game Hunt Showdown weekly challenges progression is shared with the entire team. By that I mean if the challenge requires me to get a headshot then if my teammate gets the headshot it will count the challenge finished.
Next would be would be the newcomer wall. The fact that daily challenges and events are Tier III+ centric and alienates casual friends who don’t have the time to grind out entire lineups of tier IIIs. If you’re alone you’re not dragging anyone into BRs they aren’t meant for.
As for other aspects of the game:
The game is very anti consumer with its whale market, no one sane should be paying 2 grand for a digital tank.
Now all that said: Do I enjoy the game? I gave up on playing high tier just because the time required to spade a vehicle is too long for me to care. I mainly play 3.7-7.7 pretty much evenly across each nation playing vehicles I like.
I am an tank enthusiast and I do feel WT has zero competition, to its detriment.
I do feel the majority of the game is still to grindy even after recent changes particularly events. Crafting events I do not participate in anymore as they’re entirely boring and require time played on par with a full time job.
Overall the level of detail and the interesting experience of learning different vehicles is the main reason I play.
the biggest problem imo is the FOMO the game creates... like u said, events are cordoned off for tier 3+ only, vehicles are $2000 because "durr its a super rare vehicle, of COURSE u should buy it!", and the fact that many event/bp vehicles either never come back or are buyable for exorbitant prices.
In my eyes, it’s all about perspective. Perspective means everything. I personally find War Thunder fun on some days, not so fun on other days. For example, if I’m going on a great game streak, getting kills and staying alive in my planes, I’m having fun. It’s because I’m doing good in the game and I’m preforming how I want to preform. On days that I’m not having fun, it’s when I’m dying quickly, kill stealing, or people who are just better than me getting the better of me. However, I find the overall excitement of not knowing exactly what to expect every game to be the fun part. You’ll need to slightly tweak your strategies, adapt to new situations, and learn to deal with certain tanks or aircraft accordingly.
The fun part is the unpredictable and the gameplay of War Thunder, but many people don’t find this viewpoint as the same. I won’t call it a skill issue(even if it rightly is), but it’s all about perspective. War Thunder can be a pile of shit sometimes, but its *OUR* pile of shit.
Great Video!
I just play and enjoy the Game for the Cinematic Potential it has, DCS is a lot better but also a lot Harder for that regard, I also just enjoy a few Sessions with Friends which are really funny!
As a great man once said "you can't call prison entirely fun although there are fun times but It doesn't sum up prison is fun, same goes as War Thunder "
Man the factor that makes this game “fun” is the same that makes gambling “fun”, Addiction and the illusion that next time it will be better
I had a battle the other day where I went too fast, hit a wall and flipped over.
Thankfully my team mate rammed me back over
I started playing this game on March, 9th 2013, after seeing an ad for it on FB, I loved the idea of flying classic, old school planes, like the Spitfire, Mustang, Hurricanes and alike, But one thing I started to hate was the constant cheating, kill stealing and team killing, then I moved to tanks and was getting one shot from across the map, constant spawn camping and still miles of cheating. I know they have banned a ton and a half for cheating, I do like playing around 3.7 to 4.0 and then to 6.3. There are still things like spawn camping, But I still love the classic planes and actual WWI vehicles. I am level 100, since there are a ton of Shermans and Leopards now, it would be nice to see some other tanks, even some that saw little action.
Been playing since 2013 and have close to 6k hours in the game. The secret to having fun is to never play above tier 4-5. That's what the game was originally focused on and it's where it is the most fleshed out and realistic.
Tiers 2-3 are where the game shines, and where you should be spending most of your playtime. Just ignore all the shiny modern vehicles at higher tiers, the gameplay loop just isn't very good and the grind is horrendous. There are hundreds of vehicles to play under tier 5 so you will never run out of things to do
The game ends at BR 4.0 for me. I have unlocked and spaded most air/ground vehicles under that for all countries and I just play there.
For me the Game is pretty perfect.
But I also not bother with buying premium vehicles. I just go for a year of premium when the sale drops. That means my grind literally is cut by 50% . And still i think the grind could be less in certain areas (for example heli).
Maybe they could introduce a new system that if you start with the game you can choose a nation that will give you a rank 1 premium plane, tank and also a coastal ship and as well a 20% boost on the income with you’re chosen nation for a month or something. That could keep a lot of people just trying out the game engaged with it. Additionally increasing the chances to actually get something out of daily chests etc.
Just to make it more friendly to the beginner sort of audience.
On the other hand if you reach an end of the line, rank 7/8, or whatever system they decided on you get this earlier mentioned bonus for a new nation that will be activated by a voucher. So veterans have a new motivation to grind a new nation.
But all this ends up being only motivation for people to grind more at the end.
I want to do more with my vehicles and that’s my type of stand.
Not just hoping into another boring tank realistic match to in the end of the day grind again.
I want cool events and scenarios on big historical maps depicting a certain battle/war that happened or could have happened. Giving fitting rewards and encourage team play, clan building and all this in an immersive big scale scenario. Much like they tried with world war mode. But it needs to be better implemented. And actually give cool rewards. And they always should be such a game mode in the game with out a pause.
They need to learn to recycle some rewards from time to time. And they can pick for such a 2 week event (I think that’s fitting) some rewards or vehicles like ge vehicles fitting to the events theme.
The event needs to be something like a simulator battle restricting you to use period accurate vehicles
I come back mostly for the fact that I have a yt channel that makes the game bearable. But also because of the hope that I can get that on 10 kill game, I haven’t had one in a week or two though, it’s getting annoying
I can find 2 different kinds of funs, 1 is pursuing the next vehicle which usually leads to complaints and more frustrating and playing general WW2 vehicles is generally peak performance. I do have a mix between playing with and without friends and always have more fun playing with playing friends.
Played the game for 10 years. It is undeniably cool to get to use interesting vehicles that have not seen the light of day in any videogame. There’s major flaws in the map design and they’re not very good at fixing them, and quite honestly it seems like the devs don’t know what makes a game fun with all the questionable changes they make. The grind sucks the soul out of anyone who is interested in many vehicles. A lot of the game revolves around unfair advantages as well. I know lots of people are drawn to the shiny modern stuff but the game sucks after the Cold War stuff. For a f2p game it’s pretty awesome, but overall it misses the marks of a good game.
You say it right about the cold war vehicles. After taking USSR up to 8.0, Sweden to 8.7, Germany to 9.3 And UK to 11.3 I've found the most fun in roughly the 7.3 - 9.3 range. I can get some fun out of top tier with either my challengers or Leopard 2's but it's far less frequent that I get a good game.
im level 31 in the game, and love it. I dislike some aspects like getting upteired when you have a hard time taking on vehicles at your BR already. Sometimes the physics can get a little wonky, like the time when my APCBC shell went through a german Pz.II without doing anything to it in a 4.0 game. Or when you interact with other vehicles physically you can get some interesting reality breaking things to happen...
I can agree, I play alone 99.9% of the time actually I used to play with some buddies but they are busy plus they/he mostly lives on the west coast and im on the east coast so there's like a 3 hour time difference 😢, that being said, ill het frustrated and rage for 30 seconds but couple minutes later youd never know unless im simply just havung a bad time playing all together which does happen
The lack of competition is really what sticks out to me.
Personally I would rather play a single player narrative game/ scenario game. I thought this would happen with Gunner Heat PC, but as of right now it lacks depth and variety.
WoT is as you said WAY too arcadey to be fun anymore, it feels dated.
I am a military vehicle enthusiast, and no other game on the market has it all compressed into a single package like this.
War Thunder can feel wildly inconsistent in matchmaker too. I can go from topping the team chart and raking in the kills, to my next match dying twice without ever seeing the enemy and having to go back to hangar. But when you do well? ohhhh yeah, thats the stuff. Seeing the "Target Destroyed" "Target Destroyed X2 (X3, etc)" is a dose of dopamine injected directly into your veins. If anything, we're all just a bunch of drug addicts chasing our dopamine high, trying in vain every game to match the hit we got that one time when we did really well.
That's also why it's so easy to rage, too. You line up a shot, you know it's a kill shot, but then you "get gaijin'd" and your shot ricochets off of a surface that you KNOW it can pen, or alternatively you line up a shot and just before you pull the trigger you die to another shooter you didn't see. You were denied your hit of dopamine, and you lash out like a junkie.
I'm lvl 100 with 1400hrs in the game.
As a level 50 war thunder player, i can basicly agree with all what he said he had it correct to the point
Monkey sees “target destroyed”
Neurone activation
monke sees “death”
monke hates game
and so on
11 Years into playing WT, still having fun.
i enjoy the gameplay and historical stuff, progression etc
Personally, I play for about a month at a time, slowly getting more and more annoyed at the game until I stop playing for a month or 2.
Manly I get annoyed because I'm just bad at the game but I can't stop trying to play it because I'm just hoping to get that one good game where I get more than 1 or 2 kills lol
Keep it as a WW2 vehicle sim and you'll have a blast. Research is reasonable, repair costs low and there's not as much sweat like CAS spam or drones
i look at as people with friends who play competitively will perfor better alone then in groups. But if you adn your buddies are just trolling around goofing off, you will on average have a 10X better experience.altough your team may not be too happy
The 81-90 level peak at 3:24 is likely vaused due to players reaching top tier
my main problem with warthunder is that yea you don't have fun when you're bad at the game, but also that both the devs and the community actively hinder you getting better. as there isn't much of a mistake to learn from when you just spawn in and there is a hull down tiger 2 waiting for your spawn protection to go away or when you get finally start doing well and an(insert random us aircraft here) comes and ends your fun.
I tried playing low tier to get better but I would find level 100s with 10 kills steam rolling each other's teams