Glad you included helping new players, I hate seal clubbers but usually it’s people starting a new nation but there’s also the 100’s that play low tier because of the influx of low levels purchasing high tier premiums and making it unenjoyable for you as your team just gets decimated because they have no idea what they’re doing. Sorry if it’s a bit of a rant, but great video man
@@Wubb333 hi, could you also do this test when some major event starts (for vehicles) cause ammount of lvl 100s in low tier increases, im also guilty of it too, cause it was easy way to get 4K score using 20mm puma.
ofc... cause you are playing mostly with players that dont know what they are doing^^ and that means you are getting better matches since you are, probably, better than them^^ one does not need to actively go seal clubbing to be seal clubbing...
@@THCLK it’s just a game? How am I supposed to grind to a bare bone nation I haven’t even played then? Should I GE and avoid that? I’m just enjoying the game and I am not as what you expect that I seal club. Even new players could come up with genius ways and kill me. I’m not that of a try hard.
@@THCLKSo by your logic all level 100 players must try hard and only play top tier ? Excuse me bit I am not loosing my mind over someone that things I should not play lower tiers when I find them relaxing and fun
Sometimes I just want to fly a biplane instead of a jet, or drive a lawn mover instead of Abrams... I've played for a decade to have fun, not to progress.
Basically war thunder for beginners: -join battle -find that half of the players are lvl 100 -give up -repeat untill you get lvl 100 -play the low tier
I am one of these. I've had WT before ground battles existed, and had World of Tanks for that. Never really got into ground. Im still that way, 100% the soviet air tree, only like two 7.0s on the ground tree.
For me its the other way around i play most of the time ground but almost got no Planes. I think i got only one nation at 5.0 BR in Air - thats it. But i have the 11.7 Leopards and so on :D
“It’s not a game guys, you should only play at where you’re at!!! Uuughhghghghh” has anyone ever considered that maybe this GAME is so fucked that on occasion the only fun way to play is to go down to reserve because that’s the only place that’s not massively unbalanced
clearly you dont know how to play top tier even remotely.. War thunder takes time to get good at. Your just not good enough at the game to play top tier
@@ubermorph7661or ya know I don't exclusively play Russia or Germany? The skill issue chant rings hollow when you start comparing vehicles at the same BR and begin to realise how off balance the game actually is. One beautiful example is how theu just gave some 3.3 ships surface to air missiles but only in 1 or 2 nations. Yeah, 100% totally balanced, the foolish Corsair user needs to improve their skill to dodge the infrared missile traveling at 500meters per second
I hear the 'Oh level 100 just means we've played a long time, not that we're good' and 'We're just playing tanks we enjoy' but if you find their stats which are often either directly tied to their forum profiles or a name search away, its always some bush-wookie Puma, M22, Ka-Chi or other impossible to get past event vehicle they can abuse new players lack of knowledge about with north of a thousand games and a 60-75% winrate.
I got called out in a match just because I was trying to start grinding out Sweden's Tech Tree. It was kind of funny, but after I informed the other guys, everyone was chill.
As a level 100, I do sometimes feel bad when I drop down to like 1.3 and start smacking players, but I do it to escape the monotonous grind that is high-top tier. Also, a lot of the fun, goofy vehicles are at those low brs, which is something you just don’t get to experience at the higher ends of the game. You can be a lot more goofy and pull off a lot more shenanigans when down low. I mean, some of those matches are like something out of Looney Toons, and it’s just fun to, well, have fun in War Thunder.
Sometimes I'll ask why level 100's play low tiers and they just get really toxic over it when in reality it makes life for people who actually want and need to grind low tiers as a low level extremely hard and tedious.
@@tutelbomb I always check who revenge bombed me and it's always the lvl 100 sealclubbers even when I'm not even in a strategic position, they get so salty when you dig them out from their camping spot😂
I felt kind of bad going into the starting BRs on Sweden when I started researching the Swede planes. was fun getting to dogfight again though since that rarely happens at high BRs
its so tragic, because low tier is so much funnier with so many more goofy ass tanks, but at the same time its extremely unfun to go against as a new player, i consistently see lvl 100s dominating the match because they just have so many more hours and experience and knowledge in the game. its such a tragic and hopeless situation this game is in
Like, i feel bad as i had to make a new account as i lost my one from years ago, so i am slowly grinding through a ground tree spading everything as i go (why did i choose britian lol) this has meant i play more matches with each tank. This has me witness so many lvl 100s spawn camping with the best tanks as that br which is just sad and unfun.
@@Alberecht hate to burst your bubble but you learn the most in playing against good players. I dont even play warthunder but these comments here show me that all new people just wann win and dont really learn the game. Yall are the reason developers do SBMM because yall cant handle a single setback you couldve learned from
@@SCYN0 >makes an opinion on a game he has never played you do realize seal clubbing is detrimental in a game like war thunder because of how long the grind is, the harder it is for a low level to reach tiers he want the less likely he will continue the game. The reward system for XP and SL in war thunder is based on how much you pull your weight in a round. I seen people drop the game because level 100s keep hogging all the kills or killing their entire team.
I am trying to do this also, I have lineups for most common BR levels in ground rb and of the vehicles I have selected I've spaded the vast majority of them, vehicals I have to buy to get to one I actually intend to play I don't even bother crewing, either because they have no place in my lineups, don't offer anything unique or impacting or are just a slightly improved version of an existing vehicle but with an overly inflated br that just doesn't fit in anywhere. I've been playing on and off on WT ground for years, I started on arcade and moved onto realistic. I'm only up to around BR 9.3 - 10.0 and the grind at these higher tiers is a bit of a nightmare, but sometimes it's worth it for a vehicle you've been eyeing for a long time! I only have 2-3 premiums and have only got good progress with Germany so far, and up to around 5.0 as Russia.
I am in the same "boat". With 1100ish planes/tanks spaded. Why do i do it? Mostly because of the previous events and to do the events smarter not harder
My only goal right now as a new player is to unlock all my favorite planes in the US air tech tree up to tier 4 and then vanish off the face of the earth hiding in my custom games to have fun with them lol. I don't even mind grinding out the research points for them in that pve assault mode for hours as long as I get my favorite planes, I'd rather do that than risk my short temper setting off in random arcade battles and ultimately start hating the game
@@LunarBloodRose27 Hate came with missile spamming in the jet games especially when being uptiered. It was so bad that i had to take 18 months off the game. Now i just do my daily things, and play with some fun line ups to get the crew xp for ground vehicles ;-)
For some of us "senior citizens" it is to just enjoy the game. When you realize that eyesight hand-eye coordination is not up the same standards as the young pups, you play with what you enjoy. It is still fun at age 72, but I prefer playing longer in a game than getting wiped in 15 to 20 secs. Casual player would be a better title. Have fun in the game, IT IS NOT A JOB!!!
there should be a system that stops the MMS from putting low level players into the same match as experienced players... so that lvl~100 players that queue for 1.0 only get matched with other lvl~100...
Isn't it a 0.6 modifier I guess the 1.2 from rb cancels it out somewhat I just play between 1-6.7 for fun Around 3.7 when trying to decompress since I don't have to try hard and can just enjoy myself
Its worth it, have used the t18e2 / kv1e to do as such. Average score is higher and more consistent to gain. The bonus for high tier (8.0+) would have to be 5x or more to be worth it. @commisaryarreck3974
one would think a working matchmaking system based on player level (on top of vehicle rank) would fix any issues... but I guess that's too much common sense for the snail.
Being level 100, I personally hate seeing other level 100s at low tier, as it is one of the primary reasons players don’t stick, as it feels like the knowledge veteran players have is almost “cheating” to new players. I play with friends who only have low tier, and when I play at low tier, I’m obviously getting consistent 10+ kill games up until around 7.0+. Makes me feel like shit to see my friend waiting out of the game while I’m still having fun in a match. While I like WWZ tanks, I enjoy the challenge of top tier, as it feels like I get faster and faster when playing at top tier, instead of becoming stagnant at lower tiers where I’m more likely to be able to ace tanks.
It's not just having more knowledge... but veterans have better crew (possibly spaded), better planes (all upgraded and shit), etc. Gayjin loves this rigged imbalance though, as they can use it to make some players pay to progress faster/catch up.
@@randompolishguy119 Largely yes. But also if you want to play with pre-WW2/WW2 planes... you can play low tier, but Gayjin does not take level into proper consideration when making matches (meaning it's also largely Gayjin's fault).
I'm level 100 and I like to play low tiers (2.0 - 5.7). Why? Because it's fun, because it's MUCH more balanced than higher BR, because I like WW2 vehicles
Lower BRs like 3-6ish are not what I'd call seal clubbing while I was going up a tech tree. I get a lot of people enjoy the WW2 era. I've had a lot of fun in the ISes, T-34s and so on for a long time. It's pretty balanced and diverse in skill levels. It's really the BR1.0 "experts" that would get on my nerves when starting a new grind. Then again after a short evening of playing you're way up in rank 3 already so whatever... I guess it's the massive skill gap and braindead "complete-noob farming" aspect of it. For a short while when starting a tree you meet a lot of players with absolutely zero grasp of the game. It's goofy while it lasts but I feel dirty staying there for too long... And then there are these guys.
It's also important to note that depending on when you play, you will get different data. When playing at 2am my time, there were a ton of veteran players who were just wiping me when I was just starting out, however at more reasonable times, there were a lot more new players at my skill level.
the real fun is at extremely unreasonable times, i have been in matches at like 4 am where the whole lobby was just there to goof around. seeing tanks fly of of cliffs with mach 3 trying to shoot someone beneath them is funny as can be.
I think there are a lot more unique vehicles at low tier too, making it significantly less stale than the copy-paste dart and missile slingers at top tier.
@@LunarBloodRose27I didn't put as much emphasis on my aircraft research, so it's funny me bringing stuff like IL-2s into 10.0 ground realistic battles.
Spader here. Wow. That data analysis was interesting. :) I highly doubt that you can do the same with Rank II and III though because the dailies and events would mess with that.
I "seal club" (dropping nukes every third match from 5.7 to 8.0) simply because top tier has more lvl 20s than lower tiers which leads to matches where I am last alive with more kills than the sum of the rest of my team
yeah youre right, that br has the most experienced players % of the whole server, if youre dropping nukes at that br youre just really good@@FokkerBoombass
I mean, as a level 100 with a couple thousand hours in the game, ive recently been spending time at low tier researching, playing and spading vehicles i skipped. I also end up in lower tiers to learn or practice specific vehicles for SQB's. Having a good prop dogfight is just so much more fun than getting smacked by a missile.
@@rendycoya Im lvl 100 with over 4000h total counting beta times allso and i dont even have any of the new jets. Mitsubishi T2 might be the higest plane i have and i have flown that like 10 times. Gameplay of anything newer than sabre and MIG 15 is just pure cancer. Even early jets are boring and i dont enjoy playing them. So i play pretty much props only for these reasons. Anyone can call me sealclubber if they want xD i dont care.
early missiles are fun to fight against too because if you got hit by it, 90% of the time it's your own fault. IMO some of the best fights I've had were at 9.7/10.3 before the match size increased and all aspects were a thing. Now it just feels like ace combat with a realistic damage model, which is not a good thing,
Grinding a new nation, stat padding, lower repair cost, or maybe because it's fun and a lot less stressful than top-tier. To add to this level is just an indicator of how much time a person has spent playing the game and not necessarily skill. Some lvl 100 players might also be just starting what ever game mode they're currently playing.
@endeyfire I grinded through UK when Conqueror wasn't folded yet and was 20k SL repair cost. Still had no issues then. (I get that you are joking, but im serious lol)
Man… I am new at war thunder, and every match I play, there is a panzer or a t26 that just instantly kills me in a millisecond. Lvl100 just makes it harder to get better…
its just annoying when level 100s are just going full sweat dropping 12 kills in 1.0 like man can you calm down?? I play lowtier and when i see someone struggling really bad i let them kill me so they can have fun
my buddy has been level 100 for like 5 years, he’s been playing WT forever - he literally hates the gameplay over like… 6.7, he won’t touch it, we’ve had to coax him up to the korean/vietnam era gently over months and months… he just likes the tanks at mid-BRs… that’s his only reason. :P
I'm just like your friend, I'm one of those players that think that going into missiles for air, and going past korea on ground was a mistake. I just plain think that gun dogfights are better, and tier 1 dogfights on slow, low damage guns, and dodging trees and houses fights are the most exciting ones. Plus i have over many years, amassed a colection of low tier goofy event vehicles that are some of my most fun ones
@@diegokevin3824 Jets were more fun before all aspects. You had to actually position yourself to get a missile lock, ended up with way more gunfights. These days planes just toss a missile side on and you most likely die to it.
@@Wubb333 Because top tier is toxic and god forbid someone want's to play tanks/planes from another era for once... damn it this community is so toxic no wonder I quit WT
@@AlphaDragons60 how is this toxic lol, i myself am a seal clubber and literally doing it in the video. theres no shame in it, its just a categorization… stop being soft
@@Wubb333 It's the undertone of it... "purposefully foing it to dominate over newer players"... I'm sorry i enjoy guns only dogfights more than missile spam, but apparently going down in ranks is me "purposefully going against newer player to dominate them"...
as a level 9 i really dont like it how level 100 players are allowed to complain about us being in top tier but we can't complain about them being in low tiers
I think people end up complaining about it more because going from top teir to low teir is as simple as changing to a vehicle you already have, meanwhile low teir to top teir you have to buy your way there and we all already know how people feel about p2w. For me personally I’m fine with low lvl players in higher brs for now because it’s free kills but once you have everything maxed then it’s different
Hope to see more videos like this :) Im so numbed by all the WT speculation videos that have questionable reasoning that seeing graps and charts feels like a breath of fresh air. Allways good to see something based on real measurable and comparable data. I know it takes a while to make something that is not generic, so you have my respect for all the effort 👍
I'd fall into that category as well, given that I've spaded 82% of the 1400 vehicles I've unlocked. Gives more gameplay variety, provides nice short-term objectives to avoid burnout, and the 20% RP bonus is nice for unlocking things.
@@Wubb333 its fun spading stuff, and ussualy i got nothing better to do and i was bored out of my mind. I even spaded the frech pyramid, and that was utter pain
Easiest way to determine a seal clubber is to look at their stats in higher vehicles.If they are terrible at high BR but have thousands of games at Rank 1-2 then you can pretty safely assume they play there to take advantage of less experienced players.
As a lvl 100 who plays exclusively Ground RB, it's interesting to see the stats from other modes. Personally, I don't usually play below 3.7 since any lower just feels like major seal-clubbing. WW2/early cold war is just a fun part of the game, before CAS gets obnoxious at higher BRs.
similar also its less fun to have terrible turret taverse. 3.7 opens up to more higher level players, fun tanks for me, and the tanks i think of when i think ww2. i also have spread my 1000 hours across every tree but Isreal and china. and have almost all to at least 6.7, i main France though i have yet to finish the tree. i also play RB for ground air and Naval so i am probably quite the outlier.
Nice analysis. One problem with figuring out why level 100s play low BR is that there can be multiple reasons for one person to play low BRs. Even once a vehicle is spaded there are camos to unlock, and some of the low BR vehicles are just fun to play. I like to take out landships like the T-35, Nb.Fz and Independent, you often get focused and don't always do well but they are just fun. Also trying to get kills with stuff like the Po-2 or TB-3M, I managed to kill a Petard with the 50kg bombs on the Po-2 and it was hilarious. I also pay attention to who is doing well in low BR matches, and it's often not the handful of level 100 players topping the kill counts. I've found a surprising number of low-experience players who are a lot better than I was at that point, and do exceptionally well. True seal clubbers use the most meta vehicles and power positions on maps, I run into them sometimes when I'm goofing around in a squad with my son.
@@Wubb333 I think you did a pretty good job in covering the likely reasons, and just seeing the actual percentage of level 100s was interesting, I expected it to be a little higher tbh.
That's what I noticed as well when I was new, they will abuse those power positions that new players have no idea it existed and ruin their whole experience, I really like tanks and planes so I stayed but I'm pretty sure a ton of new players who tried the game have already quit after a few matches after getting killed without a chance to do anything
@@Fenryr7 I don't think that's a sufficiently good excuse to quit the game. If you get killed from a "meta" position, you should remember it and also use it yourself or find a counter to it. If you keep dying to the same spot repeatedly then it's kind of on yourself.
As lvl100 that had to drop down to help a friend. I feel like I'm bullying every time. I don't think we should consistently be lower than 5.3, if you are lower it should just be to get in and out - for a new nation as an example. Anyone trying to justify staying down there, let's be honest you're just stroking your ego. It shouldn't be enjoyable bullying new players.
Well, there is one thing that plays a big factor in that, especially notice'able in ground RB (in air RB too, but to lesser extent since ground has respawning). All the wallet warrior noobs buy a high tier premium before even playing the game properly. They proceed to go into high tier games, die instantly without seeing anything, and leave. Because of this, high tier games almost never turn into interesting encounters. You NEVER see intense fights, clutches, enemies fighting to their last player and spawnpoint.... 99% of the time it's a totally one-sided stomp, where one team was unlucky enough to get more of those noobs. Even high level, experienced players, seem way more likely to just leave the match after one death if they see it's one of those games for their team. Meantime in the low-mid tier, even the noobs usually have a decently full lineup, can and will spawn multiple vehicles. It seems like their will is also stronger, and they will keep spawning, fighting and keeping the battle exciting and alive, even if they are losing. That results in some incredibly intense games, which you will pretty much never experience in top tier.
The problem is I’m expected to see 3 pixels on my screen from across the map and get shot in the mathematically perfect shot they found while spending hours simulating shots at every single tank in the game to counter it and one shot me.
@@SolarSillySolace yeah well, that is the most harsh way possible to say it, but... uhm... skill issue XD I dont mean it in a bad way. Its just a matter of playing enough and getting better. Experienced players know the good spots on maps, they know where to go and where to expect enemy to appear. They know roughly what ranges they are shooting at just from experience of previous encounters in the same positions on the map (and they usually pay attention to the velocity of the shell they are using, which helps a lot too with your shot ranging). They posses knowledge on majority of vehicles in the game very well, the strengths and weaknesses of each one, where to shoot them with the shell they are using, and they can roughly know what enemy vehicles they can expect to encounter just by looking at the nations and BR of the battle, so they can plan their moves in advance accordingly. And it just the nature of game as complex and expansive as WT. You cannot avoid experience being a major factor in effectiveness here. If you dont like it and want your chances more even and based on just reflexes/mechanical skill, then WT is likely not the game for you, and you'd be better off playing something else. And again, no insults or rudeness here, just facts.
I remember playing World of Tanks at a convention where you'd get a T-shirt if you got 3 kills on a press account. Several people where there for hours trying to do it in a tier 10, I was done in my first match with the loltraktor.
Compared to top tier where you can die within like 10 seconds of spawning or people using all sorts of gadgets to win it’s not really as fun compared to low tier where you can do anything without fancy gadgets to hide behind, or crazy op tanks
@@randomstuff4997 Ten seconds is generous. Maps where there are ways to fire into opponents spawn will inevitably draw sniper spawn-campers. I have been destroyed within a few meters multiple times. First team to get aircraft up typically wins easily. I spawn in with AA on high-tier to try to stop this. If the team you’re on gets aircraft first, then you don’t get to do much. High tier is cancer.
No bias and equal tanks is completely false, people just don’t bitch about the balance there like in high ranks. With that said, it is absolutely fun, as fun as higher ranks if not more.
i a few months back had a lvl 100 at around 5.3 and i accidentally stole his kill because i thought he needed help and so i apologized and not only was he yelling at me in chat, but when he died he brought out his F.222.2 and tried to bomb me and failed so miserably it was hard to believe this player was lvl 100
You don't have to be good to be level 100, you just have to play a lot. There are also some accounts that I find fishy af with tanks vs hours played in ground battle. I'm sure there are plenty of people who either borrow or pay for other people's accounts.
(I am not level 100, but 88, so I think this is close enough.) I played 1.0 just today for the Attack Ace mission with a British tank, but normally I don't play such a low BR. It's just boring and not challenging. Also, I don't want to ruin the fun for new players.
Generally people get sick of getting 1km wide maps with their mbts and switch over to something lower br to have fun, instead of match starts, oh they are already shooting into our spawn
2:23 im just a level 43, but i do play 1.7 sometimes to calm down from stuff like an object 268 bouncing of the mantlet of a maus, into the welding line, killing the tank
Level 53 here, similar thing. I am tired of the constant uptier in my 9.3 Japanese lineup nearly constantly so when I don't want to grind aircraft I go to 1.7 with my Bajur line-up. LVT is low tier GOAT
If a person has put time and effort into learning a play style and vehicle, why should they be cast aside and looked upon as a diabolical person? Don't you realize if there was no competition to get better, then your skill level stagnates? If you and your entire team, is bodied by an entire player using the same tiered equipment as you, maybe look at it as a opportunity to learn, instead of seeing it as a hindrance on your progression. The only reason people get mad at high level players in lower tiers is because it interrupts their "grind", which is a really bad way to play War Thunder and almost guaranteed to cause frustration and burn out. Many players dont realize they are just grinding into yet another wall, there are just as many, if not more sweaty players with thousands of hours more than you at top tier. Even the "Seal Clubbers" get Seal Clubbed, take 7.3-11.3 for example. 7.3-7.7 will almost ALWAYS face 8.7, 8.3-8.7 will almost always face 9.3-10.0, and 9.0-9.3 will always be against 9.7-10.3 with a MAJORITY of these uptiers being players with thousands of hours, hundreds of which being in one to three specific premiums they play non-stop.
Bro is growing fast oh my, this popped up on my recommended and I didn’t see it’s 4 months old, he’s asking for help to 10k lol he’s almost at 20 already!! Let’s gooooo!!
I think the argument could be made that the a 'low tier enjoyer' would/should be a subclass of 'seal clubber.' Their knowledge and experience gives them a large advantage over people who are just starting the game or play infrequently. That doesn't even include in-game attributes that also give them another different advantage, there's a high likelihood these players have spaded their vehicles and have fully trained crews. I would also argue they're likely using the strongest vehicles at the rating, again, providing a sliding scale of advantage against opposing vehicles. Depending on how 'try hard' those 'LTEs' are, they might also be employing advantage gimmicks that are well known within the community, but new players probably don't know and haven't gone looking for. E.g. own engine noise off, specific graphic settings, ect. I usually play the game for a week per year before I quit. I get sick of being one shot on the first shot, because I don't have weak spot knowledge or better ammo. Or getting one shot across the map in spawn, or one shot while I'm behind supposed cover or camouflage. This isn't an argument that high level players shouldn't be allowed to play low BR vehicles, but Gaijin should do a better job with matchmaking trying to keep them and brand new or inexperienced players a little more segregated. Getting curb stomped every game isn't anyone's definition of fun and one of the reasons the game's player count has stagnated (aside from being over a decade old now).
Crews are the biggest gamechanger. Anytime i go down to 1.0 in Britain it includes bringing my max level crews that ive been slowly grinding since 2014. And ill repair something in seconds that takes someone 20-30
@@DevinEMILEthe reload and gunner is a huge part of it as well, if a noob ambushes you you’re lined up and 4 shots in before he can even do half of his reload
The only time I have done seal clubbing it’s when I take out the T-35 and act as a boss in a boss fight, I have seen some creative ways to take out the T-35
Lvl 100 here: Because Gaijins "Map Design" is a joke. U cant play High Tier in a Challenger, Abrams or even Leopard 1, T-62, etc without playing THE SAME SHIT MAPs u do in Low Tier... Playing anything else beside RUssian MBTs is a pain in the *** in 99% of the Maps u get. Playing a Challenger 2 for example on Advance to the Rhine or Abandoned Factory is a joke. U get Spawn camped/sniped within Minutes; The Frustration factor is very high. At the end its the thing you considering to delete this game because Gaijin doesnt care about your Feedback or how much fun it is: They "Thank" you that u spend the years and money - nothing more matters beside that for them. Gaijin has mad a handfull of good High Tier Maps that have a 3km Shooting distance - but u dont get these maps. U play from 100 Matches only around 2 on such Maps. And every feedback for bigger maps get wiped away with their Statement "Our Playerbase doesnt want big maps" (which is a lie and big maps are F* badly needed for at least MBT-Tier Tanks). The Game CAN MAKE FUN !!!!BUT!!!! it all comes down to Mapsize. So many ideas where made for better Maps, even new Gamemodes: But Gaijin refuses to make anything about it because they dont want A) a thinking Player and B) Teamplay because, Teamplay is hard for Players (so Gaijin thinks really that we are dumb and cant work togethe). Making a "Sector Controlled" Map where u have 15x15km for Tanks that fight to hold whole Sectores around Points, Buildings, etc would so awesome (a bit like the Frontline mode from Battlefield 1 or even from EAs Battlefront where the maps open up Step by Step: Attackers vs Defenders like). But "Teamplay is hard for our Playerbase and were are dumb" - and Gaijin even said that in the past in a Stream..
Not a level 100 but I am a veteran of WT, and I definitly feel bad when playing at those low tiers. Especially during events where I used to play that one 20mm Puma and do 10+ kills game on a regular basis. But I don't feel like high level players playing in low br matches is mutch of an issue (unless the dude is playing a KV-1E). After all, the whole game isn't strictly about grinding to top tier and you should definitly be able to play any vehicle you want no matter if they're 1.0, 5.7 or 11.0...Maybe however having lvl 100s at 1.0 is a little too much, and they should probably make the game a little easier for newer players. But from the moment you're over level 5, you should be able to meet any level of players.
Bruh the kv-1e really isnt op. The only reason it’s good is because ppl are bad at the game and don’t know weakspots. It’s not the best 4.0 vehicle, I’d argue that would be the turan III, or the ram II.
@@pliatOnly German guns, and TDs can handle kv1e's, most tanks at the br litterally don't have enough penetration to go through anywhere but the sides, and even then the fuel tanks catch most of the spalling from solid shot.
@@thegamingcrusader9926 yeah, only German guns can deal with it if you just shoot randomly like a trog. I regularly 1-shot Kv-1e in the Kv-1b, just shoot the driver port. The Shermans can easily destroy it too, especially with the vertical stab. I honestly cannot think of a single tank at 4.0 that I’d have any trouble killing a Kv-1e with. If you have 80-90mm pen you’re good. If you want an example of a stupidly broken op prem then look no further than the Ram II. That thing is so stupid, and I’d 1v1 tank duel a Kv-1e and win every time with that thing.
I would probably fall into "seal clubber" for vehicle stats even though I'm statistically average in the game. Top tier just has me jaded and I stopped playing the game after 2,500+ hours, so coming around for a few matches of fun WW2 tanks and leaving is the only reason I keep the game installed. I think some others could agree ^-^
I'm a newbie. I understand the lvl 100's who's there to escape the grind and have fun but deep down I just hate it. I don't even know the map I'm playing on, while, they just pop out of nowhere and one tap me. It's really annoying
One flaw assumption I found in your classification method is that, despite 10 nations existed in WT, only 5 of which is considered "Major", and of those, many peoples play one or two of these nations disproportionally because many peoples join WT attracted to one of the nations. It's simply unrealistic to expect non-seal clubber to have, as you stated in the player archetypes, "Own similar number of vehicles in every other nations". As such, your result is expected to be heavily biased toward seal clubber. As for why people stick to low tier? For me, it's simply that, from video game perspective, WW2 era vehicles are better designed for video game purpose than later vehicles. [Noted : I'm speaking as someone who mainly play air battles, but most of these also applies to ground combat as well.] When engineers develope vehicles, three things influence the design. What the nation's armed force wanted, the technological limitation the nation's faced, and the design phillosophy of the nations and the engineers themselves, which can vary widely back then since we didn't have computer powerful enough to optimized everything back then, so engineering use their own experience to fill the gap. The result is two fold. One : multiple vehicles classes existed because they can't make one class of vehicle do everything they needed. You get things like fighter aircraft, attack aircraft, front line bomber, tactical bomber, strategic bomber, dive bomber, torpedo bomber, and so on. Similarly, ground vehicles are separated into tankette, light tank, medium tank with infantry support gun, medium tank with tank-killing gun, heavy tank with infantry support gun, heavy tank with tank-killing gun, tank destroyer, self-propelled gun, assault gun, milk trucks, and so on. Two : due to different consideration from the nation's own requirement and limitation, vehicles of the same class but of different nations (hell, even sometimes of the same nation but from different designer) can vary a lot, to the point that sometimes you can't even compare them together because they're so different from each other. This is where you get things like turn fighter and energy fighter. As a result from these two points, despite having the parity between each nations, they are so many variation in strength and weakness that share among the same lineage, but unique enough to each vehicles, that allow for interesting gameplays as players has to be mindfull of what they can and cannot do to try to cover their disadvantages and exploit their advantages while preventing the enemy from doing the same. Flying F4U-1D (my favorite in US tree, for the record) against an A6M2 would be different from fighting against Bf-109F. Now, comes the early-to-mid cold war stuffs. Br 7.0 - 10.0 start to enter an area where every nation's technology and experience progress enough that see many type of vehicles merged into one class. They still have the unique flavor of each nations, but the variation diminished a lot. Aircrafts are now simply front line fighters, high speed interceptors, ground attacker/bomber, and dedicated bombers. Ground vehicles see similar merging of different classes together. Fortunately, they are still just enough variation to keep thing a bit interesting. You get an interesting dynamic where fighters are divided into furball fighter and long range missile bus. That's about it, but it's enough. The dynamic between jets like F-4 Phantom II and MiG-23M against the furball fighter like MiG-21 and F-5 still make things fun. Then you get into 1970s era, where technology reach the point where anything do everything. Jets like F-14A and MiG-23MLD being both the furball fighter and long range missile bus and fought pretty much the same way. Tanks are all MBT or MBT killers and fight the same way. Worst, the additions of several technology made a lot of stuff that are dependent on player's skill now trivialized. Ground attack? You got CCIP to pretty much aim for you. Furball fighting? Radar now have the mode that lock target for you. Hell, you got CCRP if you don't even want to bother with manually dropping your own bomb. It get even worse with 4th generation jets and other modern stuffs. Jets are now merely vehicles for missile, where fights are pretty much determined by missiles and radar more than the jet itself, where before you have maneuver into optimal postion to babysit the missile to give it the best chance to kill (and still miss 80% of the time). And don't get me start on FOX-3 fight, which lots of people with experience in a more advance fight sims already warned it would be stupidly boring. One of the most common "counter-argument" (quotation marks because it's not even a counter) is that this is how the real world military development progress. Well, it is, and credit where credit due, Gaijin did a good job portray it in game. It's that these tech made for a less interesting and, more importantly, less fun gameplay, especially since we're still using the same game mode back when the game started to these day despite all the advance stuffs we got. These modes are fun for WW2 fight, but it show its limit with Korean war vehicles, and it went downhill from there. I even guess this is why Gaijin add vehicles from completely different branch of the army and wachy experimental programs into the game, to make ground battle a little more diverse than MBT vs MBT, only that it still fail to achieve the charm of variation of lower tier match. That's the main reasons a lot of old players stay with lower tier vehicles. It is, as they said, "Low tier, fun tier". The fault, obviously, lie exclusively with Gaijin (what a surprise), but not because they made the vehicle this way. As I said earlier, Gaijin did a good job portraying how vehicle developed IRL in game, even when simplified a lot. The problem came from still sticking with the team deathmatch mode they used since day 1 of this 12 years old game. It doesn't work as well with modern vehicles as it did with lower BR, forcing a lot of veteran players to play at lower BR to still enjoy the game... ...another problem is that learning curve in WT is...weird. A lot of stuff are simple enough IF there's a guide for it, except they are very little in-game guide on how to play. New players are expected to understand things like the concept of energy management on their own, which isn't as obvious as it may seem. So you can see exactly what led to the seal clubbing problem. Veteran players are forced to low tier by how unfun high tier is, in which they meet new players who have no obvious guide on how to play.
Yeah this is fairly accurate. I'm LVL 100 and have been for a long time and I usually play where I'm at. The only times I go lower than where I'm at are either when im playing with friends who're either newer or just lower than me, or to complete the Pages of History challenges which require specific vehicles to use which sometimes are rank I or II. Great video btw! pretty interesting to see it all charted out like that.
I haven't watched the video yet but I know the answer is low tier = fun tier, high tier = competitive. Low tier has all of unique quirky vehicles that have a large amount of varying play styles, top tier is boring where everything mostly performs the same where the differences are far more minute than low tier.
Not really low tier is a basic mode that requires a tank with over 35 millimeters of penetration no angling, no anti air ,little positioning and a basic knowledge of the game
@@user-ju1pp2he4k That is not true I can assure you as a top tier player I can pick the German reserve tier autocannons and annihilate. Those things are required at all times, you just don't see low tier players actually use them.
Without watching the vid, either 2 reasons. 1: They just want to enjoy the BR they like playing, which can sometimes be 1.0. 2: They started a new country and have to start at 1.0
That's my experience. Roll out at 5.7 or 6.0 and get demolished by a waffenträger that's completely hidden by terrain, not even a pixel sticking out. Twice in a row. Check player card? Lvl 100. Meh.
Top tier is broken. Having the T80 BVM sideskirts eat my apfsds or getting destroyed by ka50s from 10 km away is irritating. Seal clubbing makes me feel better about myself
I fly whatever I want and don't feel bad about it. The vast majority of players in this game are going to be complaining about *something*, may as well be me.
That is kinda conclusive but as a "seal clubber" identified here with 9.2k hours it is sometimes just fun to drive something absurdly fast for the battle rating...? Like driving the M22 or a BT-7M, and just gunning it straight down the right flank on advance to the rhine and then run and gun everything you see, not necessarily hitting anything, but hey, fun?
When I get home from work, the last thing I want to do is point and click adventures in top tier. I'd much rather hop into my Chi-Ha LG and A6M2-N, or 2C bis and SB2C-5 and enjoy the game.
Most of the "low tier fun tier" crowd would quickly shut up if they were to play some games of bottom tier but only against other lvl 100's, with all their knowledge of meta vehicles and tactics. There is absolutely nothing inherently and objectively more fun about bottom tiers.
Low tier is a completely different experience than top tier, and yes, I do see plenty of lv 100's in low tier. Half the time they're as brain dead as the lv 5 next to them.
@@pyro111100 Cause lvl means nothing. Lvl 100 can be bad cause : A) They are bad in general and huge amount of hours grant them lvl 100 B) They were Air players that touched ground for first time C) Bad day or something
It's more fun because you don't get insta-killed from across the map nearly as often. It's what people think of when you think "tanks fighting each other". Plus the planes aren't such a nussiance at low tiers either, at high tiers it's just like... why am I even playing this when all I do is get porked by planes I can't see...
To me, whenever I played and noticed and was told- that level 100's played on 1.0's.. I just- slowly and slowly got mad that those players, and just forever think of them as basement dwellers. Even when my friends tell me "It's better Kayla come on and play." I just- always say "Yea It's "Better" to enjoy your balls being crushed, by some fat discord mod that's level 100.. Yea I'm sure It's "Better" dude." and I just STAY the hell away from WT, cause of those people. And tbh games like this, need some sort of like- skill based or leveled based matchmaking.. Like If your account Is level 100 and you go Into 1.0's, It should put you In 1.0's with other level 100's etc! Boom fixed. But nope, prob never gonna happen. :/
Such an annoying thing, all new players go to top tier with money and all the maxed out players go down (unless their Italy low tier they can be a pain to deal with, if their Italy, put them out of their misery)
Yup. Like 80% of the time you get killed is by a high tier, experienced player who slaughters the entire enemy team and gets 10+ kills. And if you do kill them you'll immediately get revengebombed with a premium plane.
@@nikolaperic6307like I love driving around in the Italy AS 42/46, a litteral jeep with a cannon on it. Is it great? No. A mg will kill the entire crew. But it's fun
A@@nikolaperic6307He didn't say easier, he just said more fun. Which, imo, is true. A lot of those early interwar tanks are goofy af and make for some hilarious moments.
i do it if i want to help a friend get into war thunder, but mostly i skip that br, seal clubbing is not that much fun for me, rather clubbing elephants with seals
This is literally why i dont play war thunder that much. Cause i suck at the game, can’t get better because these pros keep destroying me and quit cause its frustrating
Speaking as somebody with far too much time in WT who plays lower tiers semi-regularly, it depends on the day. Some days I have an itch for my BT-7 shenanigans, other days I just enjoy the low stakes, sometimes spading a new vehicle, sometimes playing with a friend new to the game or helping them grind. I try to avoid strictly 1.0 cause the few times I do go down its always a bitter feeling of unintentionally stomping
Rent is due, new Wubb video.
8 months of rent overdue lol
😭😭
Glad you included helping new players, I hate seal clubbers but usually it’s people starting a new nation but there’s also the 100’s that play low tier because of the influx of low levels purchasing high tier premiums and making it unenjoyable for you as your team just gets decimated because they have no idea what they’re doing.
Sorry if it’s a bit of a rant, but great video man
@@q-minus_userprofile i appreciate it a lot
@@Wubb333 hi, could you also do this test when some major event starts (for vehicles) cause ammount of lvl 100s in low tier increases, im also guilty of it too, cause it was easy way to get 4K score using 20mm puma.
Now do "how many Lvl 1s at top tier"
underrated comment
probably about half way too many its why i avoid top tier cause most people there dont know what they are doing and it gets boring fast
I saw a lvl 16 at 8.7 4 times.
certified turms moment
@@Ineedsleep1941you sound like you’re hovering around the lvl 50 range yourself
After thousands of toxic hours in top tier, Playing low tier and on a nation I’ve never touched before is relaxing
Totally
ofc... cause you are playing mostly with players that dont know what they are doing^^ and that means you are getting better matches since you are, probably, better than them^^ one does not need to actively go seal clubbing to be seal clubbing...
@@THCLK it’s just a game? How am I supposed to grind to a bare bone nation I haven’t even played then? Should I GE and avoid that? I’m just enjoying the game and I am not as what you expect that I seal club. Even new players could come up with genius ways and kill me. I’m not that of a try hard.
@@THCLKSo by your logic all level 100 players must try hard and only play top tier ? Excuse me bit I am not loosing my mind over someone that things I should not play lower tiers when I find them relaxing and fun
@@thelagginggamer1309 ez for those with a brain: just have multiple queues... one for noobs one for better players...
Because low tier is not only more fun than high tier, but objectively much funnier
yes its more fun because u get to ruin the game for new players and get a ton of kills
@@AlenB29Lol exactly
@@AlenB29you don’t have top tier do you
@@KingOfTheCrabzhe doesnt ;) i like toptier more bc i love leoparda
@AlenB29 don't worry, new players get their revenge on the level 100s by buying premium top tiers and ruining games at our BR
Sometimes I just want to fly a biplane instead of a jet, or drive a lawn mover instead of Abrams... I've played for a decade to have fun, not to progress.
Respect,played 10 years
Hey, fellow "old gaurd"
I fully agree, 10 Years club players like us are now old and just want some fun lol
Basically war thunder for beginners:
-join battle
-find that half of the players are lvl 100
-give up
-repeat untill you get lvl 100
-play the low tier
low tier is more fun than fucking top tier and i stand by it
true. there is no fun past 6.7
@@marcoandaloro7925there is a few fun things past 6.7 but its very limited
Apparently, by this metric I am also a seal clubber. Generous of him to assume I’m any good.
@@marcoandaloro7925Maus at 7.7
I prefer rank 5-6. rank 1 and top tier are trash, and rank 3-4 are meh.
some level 100s have 53 days of accumulated playtime in air battles, but only 10 minutes in ground battles
I am one of these. I've had WT before ground battles existed, and had World of Tanks for that. Never really got into ground. Im still that way, 100% the soviet air tree, only like two 7.0s on the ground tree.
Some people just like planes
They would count as starting a new nation in this sheet
For me its the other way around i play most of the time ground but almost got no Planes. I think i got only one nation at 5.0 BR in Air - thats it. But i have the 11.7 Leopards and so on :D
i feel personally attacked!
“It’s not a game guys, you should only play at where you’re at!!! Uuughhghghghh” has anyone ever considered that maybe this GAME is so fucked that on occasion the only fun way to play is to go down to reserve because that’s the only place that’s not massively unbalanced
Truth has been spoken
Honestly I find anything below 6.7 fun
clearly you dont know how to play top tier even remotely.. War thunder takes time to get good at. Your just not good enough at the game to play top tier
@@ubermorph7661 ah yes just git gud becuase i get constantly sniped from 10km by KA-50
@@ubermorph7661or ya know I don't exclusively play Russia or Germany? The skill issue chant rings hollow when you start comparing vehicles at the same BR and begin to realise how off balance the game actually is. One beautiful example is how theu just gave some 3.3 ships surface to air missiles but only in 1 or 2 nations. Yeah, 100% totally balanced, the foolish Corsair user needs to improve their skill to dodge the infrared missile traveling at 500meters per second
I hear the 'Oh level 100 just means we've played a long time, not that we're good' and 'We're just playing tanks we enjoy' but if you find their stats which are often either directly tied to their forum profiles or a name search away, its always some bush-wookie Puma, M22, Ka-Chi or other impossible to get past event vehicle they can abuse new players lack of knowledge about with north of a thousand games and a 60-75% winrate.
I got called out in a match just because I was trying to start grinding out Sweden's Tech Tree. It was kind of funny, but after I informed the other guys, everyone was chill.
As a level 100, I do sometimes feel bad when I drop down to like 1.3 and start smacking players, but I do it to escape the monotonous grind that is high-top tier. Also, a lot of the fun, goofy vehicles are at those low brs, which is something you just don’t get to experience at the higher ends of the game. You can be a lot more goofy and pull off a lot more shenanigans when down low. I mean, some of those matches are like something out of Looney Toons, and it’s just fun to, well, have fun in War Thunder.
Sometimes I'll ask why level 100's play low tiers and they just get really toxic over it when in reality it makes life for people who actually want and need to grind low tiers as a low level extremely hard and tedious.
Have fun? In warthunder? What is this? Another dimension??
@@tutelbomb I always check who revenge bombed me and it's always the lvl 100 sealclubbers even when I'm not even in a strategic position, they get so salty when you dig them out from their camping spot😂
I felt kind of bad going into the starting BRs on Sweden when I started researching the Swede planes. was fun getting to dogfight again though since that rarely happens at high BRs
@@Fenryr7 funniest shit killing a level 100 stug 3 spawn camper
I'm glad you added the squadron identifiers. I don't like 1.0, but I've helped several friends who were new to the game.
That is important. Also to consider how good these vehicles are. I wouldn't call someone playing the awful 1.0 french tanks a seal clubber.
I played with my high br friend. He absolutely destroyed everyone while I barely got kills, but I also learnt from him.
its so tragic, because low tier is so much funnier with so many more goofy ass tanks, but at the same time its extremely unfun to go against as a new player, i consistently see lvl 100s dominating the match because they just have so many more hours and experience and knowledge in the game.
its such a tragic and hopeless situation this game is in
It’s also not as engaging to go against new players. You never learn anything and it’s just to easy
Like, i feel bad as i had to make a new account as i lost my one from years ago, so i am slowly grinding through a ground tree spading everything as i go (why did i choose britian lol) this has meant i play more matches with each tank. This has me witness so many lvl 100s spawn camping with the best tanks as that br which is just sad and unfun.
@@Alberecht hate to burst your bubble but you learn the most in playing against good players. I dont even play warthunder but these comments here show me that all new people just wann win and dont really learn the game. Yall are the reason developers do SBMM because yall cant handle a single setback you couldve learned from
@@SCYN0
>makes an opinion on a game he has never played
you do realize seal clubbing is detrimental in a game like war thunder because of how long the grind is, the harder it is for a low level to reach tiers he want the less likely he will continue the game. The reward system for XP and SL in war thunder is based on how much you pull your weight in a round. I seen people drop the game because level 100s keep hogging all the kills or killing their entire team.
@@Helix597just get good lol there is no lvl based matchmaking so ether get good or quit the game known for being more realistic dosnt show mercy lol
after watching this video i found someone with 2000 battles in a m2a4 at br 1.0, i never get how these people enjoy destroying new players
I spade every vehicle I play but I don't play every vehicle I own. And I mostly play at 4.0 and below because I wanna have fun, not a second job.
I am trying to do this also, I have lineups for most common BR levels in ground rb and of the vehicles I have selected I've spaded the vast majority of them, vehicals I have to buy to get to one I actually intend to play I don't even bother crewing, either because they have no place in my lineups, don't offer anything unique or impacting or are just a slightly improved version of an existing vehicle but with an overly inflated br that just doesn't fit in anywhere.
I've been playing on and off on WT ground for years, I started on arcade and moved onto realistic. I'm only up to around BR 9.3 - 10.0 and the grind at these higher tiers is a bit of a nightmare, but sometimes it's worth it for a vehicle you've been eyeing for a long time!
I only have 2-3 premiums and have only got good progress with Germany so far, and up to around 5.0 as Russia.
I am in the same "boat". With 1100ish planes/tanks spaded. Why do i do it? Mostly because of the previous events and to do the events smarter not harder
My only goal right now as a new player is to unlock all my favorite planes in the US air tech tree up to tier 4 and then vanish off the face of the earth hiding in my custom games to have fun with them lol. I don't even mind grinding out the research points for them in that pve assault mode for hours as long as I get my favorite planes, I'd rather do that than risk my short temper setting off in random arcade battles and ultimately start hating the game
@@LunarBloodRose27 Hate came with missile spamming in the jet games especially when being uptiered. It was so bad that i had to take 18 months off the game. Now i just do my daily things, and play with some fun line ups to get the crew xp for ground vehicles ;-)
For some of us "senior citizens" it is to just enjoy the game. When you realize that eyesight hand-eye coordination is not up the same standards as the young pups, you play with what you enjoy. It is still fun at age 72, but I prefer playing longer in a game than getting wiped in 15 to 20 secs. Casual player would be a better title. Have fun in the game, IT IS NOT A JOB!!!
there should be a system that stops the MMS from putting low level players into the same match as experienced players... so that lvl~100 players that queue for 1.0 only get matched with other lvl~100...
@@THCLK there is...
I cant have fun i had 7 matches in a row against a lvl 100 who got double digit kills woth planes below br 5.7
JOB Clan thinks otherwise...😉😄
I don’t exactly have think your who he actually meant
Remember about warthunder events that allow you to play rank 1 vehicles and still gain points to event
Isn't it a 0.6 modifier
I guess the 1.2 from rb cancels it out somewhat
I just play between 1-6.7 for fun
Around 3.7 when trying to decompress since I don't have to try hard and can just enjoy myself
@@commisaryarreck3974 still the amount of kill's that level 100 should do on rank 1 is huge
@@piotrpany868
I didn't even notice. Jesus christ
Its worth it, have used the t18e2 / kv1e to do as such. Average score is higher and more consistent to gain. The bonus for high tier (8.0+) would have to be 5x or more to be worth it. @commisaryarreck3974
one would think a working matchmaking system based on player level (on top of vehicle rank) would fix any issues... but I guess that's too much common sense for the snail.
True, dividing the matchmaking into level 1-50 / 51-100 would do the trick
Being level 100, I personally hate seeing other level 100s at low tier, as it is one of the primary reasons players don’t stick, as it feels like the knowledge veteran players have is almost “cheating” to new players.
I play with friends who only have low tier, and when I play at low tier, I’m obviously getting consistent 10+ kill games up until around 7.0+. Makes me feel like shit to see my friend waiting out of the game while I’m still having fun in a match.
While I like WWZ tanks, I enjoy the challenge of top tier, as it feels like I get faster and faster when playing at top tier, instead of becoming stagnant at lower tiers where I’m more likely to be able to ace tanks.
yeah no, top tier requires much more skill
@@ubermorph7661so only losers who are too afraid to face other top players at top tier play low tier? 🤔
@@randompolishguy119 yeah
It's not just having more knowledge... but veterans have better crew (possibly spaded), better planes (all upgraded and shit), etc.
Gayjin loves this rigged imbalance though, as they can use it to make some players pay to progress faster/catch up.
@@randompolishguy119 Largely yes.
But also if you want to play with pre-WW2/WW2 planes... you can play low tier, but Gayjin does not take level into proper consideration when making matches (meaning it's also largely Gayjin's fault).
I'm level 100 and I like to play low tiers (2.0 - 5.7). Why? Because it's fun, because it's MUCH more balanced than higher BR, because I like WW2 vehicles
completely agree
@@Wubb333 and low tiers have huge amount of UNIQUE vechicles
Lower BRs like 3-6ish are not what I'd call seal clubbing while I was going up a tech tree. I get a lot of people enjoy the WW2 era. I've had a lot of fun in the ISes, T-34s and so on for a long time. It's pretty balanced and diverse in skill levels.
It's really the BR1.0 "experts" that would get on my nerves when starting a new grind. Then again after a short evening of playing you're way up in rank 3 already so whatever... I guess it's the massive skill gap and braindead "complete-noob farming" aspect of it. For a short while when starting a tree you meet a lot of players with absolutely zero grasp of the game. It's goofy while it lasts but I feel dirty staying there for too long... And then there are these guys.
balance is when I have a clear advantage
@@user-he1ff9fs9n
You shouldn’t be limited to high tiers just because you’re experienced. And you are wrong, lower tiers are more balanced
It's also important to note that depending on when you play, you will get different data. When playing at 2am my time, there were a ton of veteran players who were just wiping me when I was just starting out, however at more reasonable times, there were a lot more new players at my skill level.
this data was taken across a month by multiple people at varying times of day, across the NA and EU servers
@@Wubb333 Very nice.
the real fun is at extremely unreasonable times, i have been in matches at like 4 am where the whole lobby was just there to goof around. seeing tanks fly of of cliffs with mach 3 trying to shoot someone beneath them is funny as can be.
Around 12am, i stop playing anything higher than 10.0 because of the bot population that seems to turn up like clockwork in the NA servers
@@EsOoBaCtvp same. after midnight, the NA server starts speaking in numbers and mandarin lol
I think there are a lot more unique vehicles at low tier too, making it significantly less stale than the copy-paste dart and missile slingers at top tier.
its a big reason for "low tier enjoyer"
If I wanna play with jets I'll just go play Ace Combat 7. World war 2 propeller planes are so much cooler in my opinion
@@LunarBloodRose27I didn't put as much emphasis on my aircraft research, so it's funny me bringing stuff like IL-2s into 10.0 ground realistic battles.
I remember getting at least one level 100 smoking our team when i first started off, all i can say is... ITS ANNOYING
Spader here.
Wow. That data analysis was interesting. :)
I highly doubt that you can do the same with Rank II and III though because the dailies and events would mess with that.
I "seal club" (dropping nukes every third match from 5.7 to 8.0) simply because top tier has more lvl 20s than lower tiers which leads to matches where I am last alive with more kills than the sum of the rest of my team
the number of level 4 pack vehicle users i see............
I "seal club" because i like to vroom vroom in the BT-5. I have a negative K/D in the BT-5 (by like 2 kills)
Yeah i do the same thing and i get a nuke every match
5.7-8.0 aint sealclubbing anymore
yeah youre right, that br has the most experienced players % of the whole server, if youre dropping nukes at that br youre just really good@@FokkerBoombass
I mean, as a level 100 with a couple thousand hours in the game, ive recently been spending time at low tier researching, playing and spading vehicles i skipped. I also end up in lower tiers to learn or practice specific vehicles for SQB's. Having a good prop dogfight is just so much more fun than getting smacked by a missile.
its honestly a lot more enjoyable of an experience
i love props and early jets,theyre all so unique compared to another missile bus
@@rendycoya Im lvl 100 with over 4000h total counting beta times allso and i dont even have any of the new jets. Mitsubishi T2 might be the higest plane i have and i have flown that like 10 times. Gameplay of anything newer than sabre and MIG 15 is just pure cancer. Even early jets are boring and i dont enjoy playing them. So i play pretty much props only for these reasons. Anyone can call me sealclubber if they want xD i dont care.
@@jermu9607 me too,i dont have that much playtime,but i know exactly how you feel,for me the highest ill go is like Mig 19 or Scimitar
early missiles are fun to fight against too because if you got hit by it, 90% of the time it's your own fault. IMO some of the best fights I've had were at 9.7/10.3 before the match size increased and all aspects were a thing. Now it just feels like ace combat with a realistic damage model, which is not a good thing,
Grinding a new nation, stat padding, lower repair cost, or maybe because it's fun and a lot less stressful than top-tier. To add to this level is just an indicator of how much time a person has spent playing the game and not necessarily skill. Some lvl 100 players might also be just starting what ever game mode they're currently playing.
"Lower repair cost" is no longer an excuse, top tier costs like 3-4k SL per death, and you have like quadruple SL modifiers compared to 1BR tanks
@@petrkdn8224 bro Dixie is not wrong why you yapping, you acting like you haven’t play 8.0
@@Bazzwardow I'm f2p and have top tier UK lol
@@petrkdn8224no wonder you repair cost is so low your british.
(im messing with you aint no harm here)
@endeyfire I grinded through UK when Conqueror wasn't folded yet and was 20k SL repair cost. Still had no issues then. (I get that you are joking, but im serious lol)
Man… I am new at war thunder, and every match I play, there is a panzer or a t26 that just instantly kills me in a millisecond. Lvl100 just makes it harder to get better…
its just annoying when level 100s are just going full sweat dropping 12 kills in 1.0 like man can you calm down?? I play lowtier and when i see someone struggling really bad i let them kill me so they can have fun
my buddy has been level 100 for like 5 years, he’s been playing WT forever - he literally hates the gameplay over like… 6.7, he won’t touch it, we’ve had to coax him up to the korean/vietnam era gently over months and months… he just likes the tanks at mid-BRs… that’s his only reason. :P
I'm just like your friend, I'm one of those players that think that going into missiles for air, and going past korea on ground was a mistake.
I just plain think that gun dogfights are better, and tier 1 dogfights on slow, low damage guns, and dodging trees and houses fights are the most exciting ones.
Plus i have over many years, amassed a colection of low tier goofy event vehicles that are some of my most fun ones
@@diegokevin3824 Jets were more fun before all aspects. You had to actually position yourself to get a missile lock, ended up with way more gunfights. These days planes just toss a missile side on and you most likely die to it.
HIGHER TIER RB GROUND SEEMS LIKE IT WAS MADE FOR GUYS WHO LIKE TO BOMB TANKS
From a level 80 player: in short literally just because it’s more fun
Level 74 here: Absolutely
level 27: bruh no one plays 8.0
(like seriously getting a sub 1 minute queue is a blessing down here)
Youre a perfect example of lvl 100s playing low Brs and seal clubbing :)
i mean its how i got the background footage 😭
Well no need , there are replays online 😂
im using them for another project, but usually its just my own gameplay lol
Bro if it was seal clubbing he would be going for stat boosting
Or for the goofy times
From looking at comments apparently seal clubbers do it because it is 'fun' who would have thought
the number of comments ive gotten that are "i play 1.0 to take a break from top tier!" ... my brother in christ, that is literally seal clubbing 😭
@@Wubb333 Because top tier is toxic and god forbid someone want's to play tanks/planes from another era for once... damn it this community is so toxic no wonder I quit WT
@@AlphaDragons60 how is this toxic lol, i myself am a seal clubber and literally doing it in the video. theres no shame in it, its just a categorization… stop being soft
@@Wubb333 It's the undertone of it... "purposefully foing it to dominate over newer players"... I'm sorry i enjoy guns only dogfights more than missile spam, but apparently going down in ranks is me "purposefully going against newer player to dominate them"...
@@AlphaDragons60 grow up
as a level 9 i really dont like it how level 100 players are allowed to complain about us being in top tier but we can't complain about them being in low tiers
Real
I think people end up complaining about it more because going from top teir to low teir is as simple as changing to a vehicle you already have, meanwhile low teir to top teir you have to buy your way there and we all already know how people feel about p2w. For me personally I’m fine with low lvl players in higher brs for now because it’s free kills but once you have everything maxed then it’s different
Hope to see more videos like this :)
Im so numbed by all the WT speculation videos that have questionable reasoning that seeing graps and charts feels like a breath of fresh air. Allways good to see something based on real measurable and comparable data.
I know it takes a while to make something that is not generic, so you have my respect for all the effort 👍
i appreciate this well-written comment. it sums up the exact reason i do what i do :)
Well i guess i classify as a spader, about every nations has a ~50% spade ratio
do u have a goal for spading?
I'd fall into that category as well, given that I've spaded 82% of the 1400 vehicles I've unlocked. Gives more gameplay variety, provides nice short-term objectives to avoid burnout, and the 20% RP bonus is nice for unlocking things.
@@Wubb333 its fun spading stuff, and ussualy i got nothing better to do and i was bored out of my mind. I even spaded the frech pyramid, and that was utter pain
@@UnknownArt_K frech
@@UnknownArt_K low tier france is the most painful things to play in war thunder imho :((((
Easiest way to determine a seal clubber is to look at their stats in higher vehicles.If they are terrible at high BR but have thousands of games at Rank 1-2 then you can pretty safely assume they play there to take advantage of less experienced players.
Literally all of these problems could be solved if matchmaking was decided on br and then level and crew levels 😭😭😭
As a lvl 100 who plays exclusively Ground RB, it's interesting to see the stats from other modes. Personally, I don't usually play below 3.7 since any lower just feels like major seal-clubbing. WW2/early cold war is just a fun part of the game, before CAS gets obnoxious at higher BRs.
similar also its less fun to have terrible turret taverse. 3.7 opens up to more higher level players, fun tanks for me, and the tanks i think of when i think ww2. i also have spread my 1000 hours across every tree but Isreal and china. and have almost all to at least 6.7, i main France though i have yet to finish the tree.
i also play RB for ground air and Naval so i am probably quite the outlier.
@@nick-hu1nx ok but you main france, therefore you're entire argument is ruined
7:30 - yeah, as wholesome as getting a friend addicted to crystal meth.
Nice analysis. One problem with figuring out why level 100s play low BR is that there can be multiple reasons for one person to play low BRs. Even once a vehicle is spaded there are camos to unlock, and some of the low BR vehicles are just fun to play. I like to take out landships like the T-35, Nb.Fz and Independent, you often get focused and don't always do well but they are just fun. Also trying to get kills with stuff like the Po-2 or TB-3M, I managed to kill a Petard with the 50kg bombs on the Po-2 and it was hilarious. I also pay attention to who is doing well in low BR matches, and it's often not the handful of level 100 players topping the kill counts. I've found a surprising number of low-experience players who are a lot better than I was at that point, and do exceptionally well. True seal clubbers use the most meta vehicles and power positions on maps, I run into them sometimes when I'm goofing around in a squad with my son.
its really hard to determine a specific reason. unfortunately the best i can do is a guess, like this
@@Wubb333 I think you did a pretty good job in covering the likely reasons, and just seeing the actual percentage of level 100s was interesting, I expected it to be a little higher tbh.
@@vaughanharrop3902 it will definitely be a lot more during events
That's what I noticed as well when I was new, they will abuse those power positions that new players have no idea it existed and ruin their whole experience, I really like tanks and planes so I stayed but I'm pretty sure a ton of new players who tried the game have already quit after a few matches after getting killed without a chance to do anything
@@Fenryr7 I don't think that's a sufficiently good excuse to quit the game. If you get killed from a "meta" position, you should remember it and also use it yourself or find a counter to it. If you keep dying to the same spot repeatedly then it's kind of on yourself.
I stopped Playing WarThunder PlayStation 4 because i could never progress because i am always dying to people who were skilled
As lvl100 that had to drop down to help a friend. I feel like I'm bullying every time.
I don't think we should consistently be lower than 5.3, if you are lower it should just be to get in and out - for a new nation as an example.
Anyone trying to justify staying down there, let's be honest you're just stroking your ego. It shouldn't be enjoyable bullying new players.
It’s easy to turn the brain off and relax while demolishing new players, no one types in war thunder chat, so you’re basically steamrolling NPCs
Well, there is one thing that plays a big factor in that, especially notice'able in ground RB (in air RB too, but to lesser extent since ground has respawning).
All the wallet warrior noobs buy a high tier premium before even playing the game properly. They proceed to go into high tier games, die instantly without seeing anything, and leave. Because of this, high tier games almost never turn into interesting encounters. You NEVER see intense fights, clutches, enemies fighting to their last player and spawnpoint.... 99% of the time it's a totally one-sided stomp, where one team was unlucky enough to get more of those noobs. Even high level, experienced players, seem way more likely to just leave the match after one death if they see it's one of those games for their team.
Meantime in the low-mid tier, even the noobs usually have a decently full lineup, can and will spawn multiple vehicles. It seems like their will is also stronger, and they will keep spawning, fighting and keeping the battle exciting and alive, even if they are losing.
That results in some incredibly intense games, which you will pretty much never experience in top tier.
The problem is I’m expected to see 3 pixels on my screen from across the map and get shot in the mathematically perfect shot they found while spending hours simulating shots at every single tank in the game to counter it and one shot me.
@@SolarSillySolaceAdd to that covering themselves entirely in bushes with a strong premium and aced crew
Exactly. 💀💀💀
@@SolarSillySolace yeah well, that is the most harsh way possible to say it, but... uhm... skill issue XD
I dont mean it in a bad way. Its just a matter of playing enough and getting better.
Experienced players know the good spots on maps, they know where to go and where to expect enemy to appear. They know roughly what ranges they are shooting at just from experience of previous encounters in the same positions on the map (and they usually pay attention to the velocity of the shell they are using, which helps a lot too with your shot ranging).
They posses knowledge on majority of vehicles in the game very well, the strengths and weaknesses of each one, where to shoot them with the shell they are using, and they can roughly know what enemy vehicles they can expect to encounter just by looking at the nations and BR of the battle, so they can plan their moves in advance accordingly.
And it just the nature of game as complex and expansive as WT. You cannot avoid experience being a major factor in effectiveness here.
If you dont like it and want your chances more even and based on just reflexes/mechanical skill, then WT is likely not the game for you, and you'd be better off playing something else.
And again, no insults or rudeness here, just facts.
I remember playing World of Tanks at a convention where you'd get a T-shirt if you got 3 kills on a press account. Several people where there for hours trying to do it in a tier 10, I was done in my first match with the loltraktor.
Its more fun when players respawn more, in top tier people spawn less than 2 vehicles and leave😂
Im a Level 100, and if you see me at 1.0 im taking spading 1 step further and ace crewing the Vehicle.
yeah love me my ace crews
You blighter, im going to have to start doing that at some point now
How we can forget they lvl100 on low tier with the message “bruh this team suck” it’s like… bruh… we are mostly new player fym
I thought my team mates were being dumb chilling in spawn, turns out it was just this dude doing a refined analysis on whether I'm an ass or not XD
I respect the amount of effort you did on this video
Hehe, nobody shall read this message now.
Compared to top tier where you can die within like 10 seconds of spawning or people using all sorts of gadgets to win it’s not really as fun compared to low tier where you can do anything without fancy gadgets to hide behind, or crazy op tanks
@@randomstuff4997
Ten seconds is generous. Maps where there are ways to fire into opponents spawn will inevitably draw sniper spawn-campers. I have been destroyed within a few meters multiple times.
First team to get aircraft up typically wins easily. I spawn in with AA on high-tier to try to stop this. If the team you’re on gets aircraft first, then you don’t get to do much.
High tier is cancer.
Spoken like a true skill issue
@@boggisthecat yeah…. 😭
No bias and equal tanks is completely false, people just don’t bitch about the balance there like in high ranks.
With that said, it is absolutely fun, as fun as higher ranks if not more.
Aside of the abuse a lvl 100 can make in low BRs, 1.0-2.3 is basically the same playstyle than top br without all the bullshit the game has higher on
somewhat true, usualy good mobility, fairly quick reload but everything happened within 500-800m of distance
i a few months back had a lvl 100 at around 5.3 and i accidentally stole his kill because i thought he needed help and so i apologized and not only was he yelling at me in chat, but when he died he brought out his F.222.2 and tried to bomb me and failed so miserably it was hard to believe this player was lvl 100
You don't have to be good to be level 100, you just have to play a lot. There are also some accounts that I find fishy af with tanks vs hours played in ground battle. I'm sure there are plenty of people who either borrow or pay for other people's accounts.
@@ttttttttp2 that is true I've seen a few lvl 100s playing like new players it always baffles ne
I appreciate the amount of work you put into this. Thanks!
(I am not level 100, but 88, so I think this is close enough.) I played 1.0 just today for the Attack Ace mission with a British tank, but normally I don't play such a low BR. It's just boring and not challenging. Also, I don't want to ruin the fun for new players.
Generally people get sick of getting 1km wide maps with their mbts and switch over to something lower br to have fun, instead of match starts, oh they are already shooting into our spawn
fantasy mmorpg war thunder does not prohibit veteran players from returning to starting locations.
I finally got to Panzer 4, after a little grind and was disappointed to find i get completely domed at every turn.
The main reason I mainly play low tier is because I love playing things like the Swordfish or the PO-2
2:23 im just a level 43, but i do play 1.7 sometimes to calm down from stuff like an object 268 bouncing of the mantlet of a maus, into the welding line, killing the tank
Level 53 here, similar thing. I am tired of the constant uptier in my 9.3 Japanese lineup nearly constantly so when I don't want to grind aircraft I go to 1.7 with my Bajur line-up. LVT is low tier GOAT
Another thing to check is if they were playing with a new player in their squad to see if theyre just playing with friends that are new to the game.
( 3:34 ) here, i explain this exact thing in bit more in detail
The question is how can you know if they are an actual squad or one made by the game
@@ThaGr1m the squad icon changes, depending on if it's an intentionally made squad or a random squad
Because I want to play those vehicles. They’re vehicles that I am interested in.
LVL100s playing arcade to seal club is diabolical
If a person has put time and effort into learning a play style and vehicle, why should they be cast aside and looked upon as a diabolical person? Don't you realize if there was no competition to get better, then your skill level stagnates? If you and your entire team, is bodied by an entire player using the same tiered equipment as you, maybe look at it as a opportunity to learn, instead of seeing it as a hindrance on your progression.
The only reason people get mad at high level players in lower tiers is because it interrupts their "grind", which is a really bad way to play War Thunder and almost guaranteed to cause frustration and burn out. Many players dont realize they are just grinding into yet another wall, there are just as many, if not more sweaty players with thousands of hours more than you at top tier. Even the "Seal Clubbers" get Seal Clubbed, take 7.3-11.3 for example. 7.3-7.7 will almost ALWAYS face 8.7, 8.3-8.7 will almost always face 9.3-10.0, and 9.0-9.3 will always be against 9.7-10.3 with a MAJORITY of these uptiers being players with thousands of hours, hundreds of which being in one to three specific premiums they play non-stop.
Bro is growing fast oh my, this popped up on my recommended and I didn’t see it’s 4 months old, he’s asking for help to 10k lol he’s almost at 20 already!! Let’s gooooo!!
I think the argument could be made that the a 'low tier enjoyer' would/should be a subclass of 'seal clubber.' Their knowledge and experience gives them a large advantage over people who are just starting the game or play infrequently. That doesn't even include in-game attributes that also give them another different advantage, there's a high likelihood these players have spaded their vehicles and have fully trained crews. I would also argue they're likely using the strongest vehicles at the rating, again, providing a sliding scale of advantage against opposing vehicles.
Depending on how 'try hard' those 'LTEs' are, they might also be employing advantage gimmicks that are well known within the community, but new players probably don't know and haven't gone looking for. E.g. own engine noise off, specific graphic settings, ect.
I usually play the game for a week per year before I quit. I get sick of being one shot on the first shot, because I don't have weak spot knowledge or better ammo. Or getting one shot across the map in spawn, or one shot while I'm behind supposed cover or camouflage.
This isn't an argument that high level players shouldn't be allowed to play low BR vehicles, but Gaijin should do a better job with matchmaking trying to keep them and brand new or inexperienced players a little more segregated. Getting curb stomped every game isn't anyone's definition of fun and one of the reasons the game's player count has stagnated (aside from being over a decade old now).
Crews are the biggest gamechanger. Anytime i go down to 1.0 in Britain it includes bringing my max level crews that ive been slowly grinding since 2014. And ill repair something in seconds that takes someone 20-30
@@DevinEMILEthe reload and gunner is a huge part of it as well, if a noob ambushes you you’re lined up and 4 shots in before he can even do half of his reload
-Start a new Nation
-Play with friends who are new at the game
I believe the problem is more with lvl 1 players in top tier that quit after 1 death.
The matches are longer because people will actually play full line ups. The balance is actually a thing and its just more relaxing.
As a lvl 30 player, I do run too often into stacked squads in 5.0 air rb. It sucks honestly!
The only time I have done seal clubbing it’s when I take out the T-35 and act as a boss in a boss fight, I have seen some creative ways to take out the T-35
Lvl 100 here: Because Gaijins "Map Design" is a joke. U cant play High Tier in a Challenger, Abrams or even Leopard 1, T-62, etc without playing THE SAME SHIT MAPs u do in Low Tier... Playing anything else beside RUssian MBTs is a pain in the *** in 99% of the Maps u get. Playing a Challenger 2 for example on Advance to the Rhine or Abandoned Factory is a joke. U get Spawn camped/sniped within Minutes; The Frustration factor is very high. At the end its the thing you considering to delete this game because Gaijin doesnt care about your Feedback or how much fun it is: They "Thank" you that u spend the years and money - nothing more matters beside that for them.
Gaijin has mad a handfull of good High Tier Maps that have a 3km Shooting distance - but u dont get these maps. U play from 100 Matches only around 2 on such Maps. And every feedback for bigger maps get wiped away with their Statement "Our Playerbase doesnt want big maps" (which is a lie and big maps are F* badly needed for at least MBT-Tier Tanks).
The Game CAN MAKE FUN !!!!BUT!!!! it all comes down to Mapsize. So many ideas where made for better Maps, even new Gamemodes: But Gaijin refuses to make anything about it because they dont want A) a thinking Player and B) Teamplay because, Teamplay is hard for Players (so Gaijin thinks really that we are dumb and cant work togethe). Making a "Sector Controlled" Map where u have 15x15km for Tanks that fight to hold whole Sectores around Points, Buildings, etc would so awesome (a bit like the Frontline mode from Battlefield 1 or even from EAs Battlefront where the maps open up Step by Step: Attackers vs Defenders like). But "Teamplay is hard for our Playerbase and were are dumb" - and Gaijin even said that in the past in a Stream..
Not a level 100 but I am a veteran of WT, and I definitly feel bad when playing at those low tiers. Especially during events where I used to play that one 20mm Puma and do 10+ kills game on a regular basis. But I don't feel like high level players playing in low br matches is mutch of an issue (unless the dude is playing a KV-1E). After all, the whole game isn't strictly about grinding to top tier and you should definitly be able to play any vehicle you want no matter if they're 1.0, 5.7 or 11.0...Maybe however having lvl 100s at 1.0 is a little too much, and they should probably make the game a little easier for newer players. But from the moment you're over level 5, you should be able to meet any level of players.
Bruh the kv-1e really isnt op. The only reason it’s good is because ppl are bad at the game and don’t know weakspots. It’s not the best 4.0 vehicle, I’d argue that would be the turan III, or the ram II.
@@pliatOnly German guns, and TDs can handle kv1e's, most tanks at the br litterally don't have enough penetration to go through anywhere but the sides, and even then the fuel tanks catch most of the spalling from solid shot.
@@pliatliterally every single KV1E is covered in bushes.
There are no "weakspots".
You are a closeted KV1E user
@@thegamingcrusader9926 yeah, only German guns can deal with it if you just shoot randomly like a trog. I regularly 1-shot Kv-1e in the Kv-1b, just shoot the driver port. The Shermans can easily destroy it too, especially with the vertical stab. I honestly cannot think of a single tank at 4.0 that I’d have any trouble killing a Kv-1e with. If you have 80-90mm pen you’re good.
If you want an example of a stupidly broken op prem then look no further than the Ram II. That thing is so stupid, and I’d 1v1 tank duel a Kv-1e and win every time with that thing.
Did you forget that getting to 4.0 doesn't require you to be pro?
If you are new the KV1 and all it's variations are hell, especially the German one
I would probably fall into "seal clubber" for vehicle stats even though I'm statistically average in the game. Top tier just has me jaded and I stopped playing the game after 2,500+ hours, so coming around for a few matches of fun WW2 tanks and leaving is the only reason I keep the game installed. I think some others could agree ^-^
I feel a similar way. Just with 3444 hours. Christ I could have become fluent in a language by now
My reason is that at low tier the ghost shell bug and inaccuracies that Gaijin refuses to fix is easier to ignore
I'm a newbie. I understand the lvl 100's who's there to escape the grind and have fun but deep down I just hate it. I don't even know the map I'm playing on, while, they just pop out of nowhere and one tap me. It's really annoying
*shows a 2.0 tank on the thumbnail*
it was originally going to be bt-5, but the color contrast wasnt what i was looking for :(
He's there due to skill issues, gets his shit rocked anywhere above rank 2
One flaw assumption I found in your classification method is that, despite 10 nations existed in WT, only 5 of which is considered "Major", and of those, many peoples play one or two of these nations disproportionally because many peoples join WT attracted to one of the nations. It's simply unrealistic to expect non-seal clubber to have, as you stated in the player archetypes, "Own similar number of vehicles in every other nations". As such, your result is expected to be heavily biased toward seal clubber.
As for why people stick to low tier? For me, it's simply that, from video game perspective, WW2 era vehicles are better designed for video game purpose than later vehicles. [Noted : I'm speaking as someone who mainly play air battles, but most of these also applies to ground combat as well.]
When engineers develope vehicles, three things influence the design. What the nation's armed force wanted, the technological limitation the nation's faced, and the design phillosophy of the nations and the engineers themselves, which can vary widely back then since we didn't have computer powerful enough to optimized everything back then, so engineering use their own experience to fill the gap.
The result is two fold.
One : multiple vehicles classes existed because they can't make one class of vehicle do everything they needed. You get things like fighter aircraft, attack aircraft, front line bomber, tactical bomber, strategic bomber, dive bomber, torpedo bomber, and so on. Similarly, ground vehicles are separated into tankette, light tank, medium tank with infantry support gun, medium tank with tank-killing gun, heavy tank with infantry support gun, heavy tank with tank-killing gun, tank destroyer, self-propelled gun, assault gun, milk trucks, and so on.
Two : due to different consideration from the nation's own requirement and limitation, vehicles of the same class but of different nations (hell, even sometimes of the same nation but from different designer) can vary a lot, to the point that sometimes you can't even compare them together because they're so different from each other. This is where you get things like turn fighter and energy fighter.
As a result from these two points, despite having the parity between each nations, they are so many variation in strength and weakness that share among the same lineage, but unique enough to each vehicles, that allow for interesting gameplays as players has to be mindfull of what they can and cannot do to try to cover their disadvantages and exploit their advantages while preventing the enemy from doing the same. Flying F4U-1D (my favorite in US tree, for the record) against an A6M2 would be different from fighting against Bf-109F.
Now, comes the early-to-mid cold war stuffs. Br 7.0 - 10.0 start to enter an area where every nation's technology and experience progress enough that see many type of vehicles merged into one class. They still have the unique flavor of each nations, but the variation diminished a lot. Aircrafts are now simply front line fighters, high speed interceptors, ground attacker/bomber, and dedicated bombers. Ground vehicles see similar merging of different classes together. Fortunately, they are still just enough variation to keep thing a bit interesting. You get an interesting dynamic where fighters are divided into furball fighter and long range missile bus. That's about it, but it's enough. The dynamic between jets like F-4 Phantom II and MiG-23M against the furball fighter like MiG-21 and F-5 still make things fun.
Then you get into 1970s era, where technology reach the point where anything do everything. Jets like F-14A and MiG-23MLD being both the furball fighter and long range missile bus and fought pretty much the same way. Tanks are all MBT or MBT killers and fight the same way. Worst, the additions of several technology made a lot of stuff that are dependent on player's skill now trivialized. Ground attack? You got CCIP to pretty much aim for you. Furball fighting? Radar now have the mode that lock target for you. Hell, you got CCRP if you don't even want to bother with manually dropping your own bomb.
It get even worse with 4th generation jets and other modern stuffs. Jets are now merely vehicles for missile, where fights are pretty much determined by missiles and radar more than the jet itself, where before you have maneuver into optimal postion to babysit the missile to give it the best chance to kill (and still miss 80% of the time).
And don't get me start on FOX-3 fight, which lots of people with experience in a more advance fight sims already warned it would be stupidly boring.
One of the most common "counter-argument" (quotation marks because it's not even a counter) is that this is how the real world military development progress. Well, it is, and credit where credit due, Gaijin did a good job portray it in game. It's that these tech made for a less interesting and, more importantly, less fun gameplay, especially since we're still using the same game mode back when the game started to these day despite all the advance stuffs we got. These modes are fun for WW2 fight, but it show its limit with Korean war vehicles, and it went downhill from there.
I even guess this is why Gaijin add vehicles from completely different branch of the army and wachy experimental programs into the game, to make ground battle a little more diverse than MBT vs MBT, only that it still fail to achieve the charm of variation of lower tier match.
That's the main reasons a lot of old players stay with lower tier vehicles. It is, as they said, "Low tier, fun tier".
The fault, obviously, lie exclusively with Gaijin (what a surprise), but not because they made the vehicle this way. As I said earlier, Gaijin did a good job portraying how vehicle developed IRL in game, even when simplified a lot. The problem came from still sticking with the team deathmatch mode they used since day 1 of this 12 years old game. It doesn't work as well with modern vehicles as it did with lower BR, forcing a lot of veteran players to play at lower BR to still enjoy the game...
...another problem is that learning curve in WT is...weird. A lot of stuff are simple enough IF there's a guide for it, except they are very little in-game guide on how to play. New players are expected to understand things like the concept of energy management on their own, which isn't as obvious as it may seem.
So you can see exactly what led to the seal clubbing problem. Veteran players are forced to low tier by how unfun high tier is, in which they meet new players who have no obvious guide on how to play.
This is literally why I barely play anymore
Yeah this is fairly accurate. I'm LVL 100 and have been for a long time and I usually play where I'm at. The only times I go lower than where I'm at are either when im playing with friends who're either newer or just lower than me, or to complete the Pages of History challenges which require specific vehicles to use which sometimes are rank I or II. Great video btw! pretty interesting to see it all charted out like that.
I haven't watched the video yet but I know the answer is low tier = fun tier, high tier = competitive.
Low tier has all of unique quirky vehicles that have a large amount of varying play styles, top tier is boring where everything mostly performs the same where the differences are far more minute than low tier.
Not really low tier is a basic mode that requires a tank with over 35 millimeters of penetration no angling, no anti air ,little positioning and a basic knowledge of the game
@@user-ju1pp2he4k That is not true I can assure you as a top tier player I can pick the German reserve tier autocannons and annihilate. Those things are required at all times, you just don't see low tier players actually use them.
issue is, you havent watched the video..
Without watching the vid, either 2 reasons. 1: They just want to enjoy the BR they like playing, which can sometimes be 1.0. 2: They started a new country and have to start at 1.0
why? because gaijin allowed so
That's my experience. Roll out at 5.7 or 6.0 and get demolished by a waffenträger that's completely hidden by terrain, not even a pixel sticking out. Twice in a row. Check player card? Lvl 100.
Meh.
My level 57 ass returning to the lowest BR since my favorite plane us the F3F Galer I got for free
Top tier is broken. Having the T80 BVM sideskirts eat my apfsds or getting destroyed by ka50s from 10 km away is irritating. Seal clubbing makes me feel better about myself
"Seal clubbing makes me feel better about myself"
You need to seek help bro
I fly whatever I want and don't feel bad about it. The vast majority of players in this game are going to be complaining about *something*, may as well be me.
well darn i look like a seal clubber but i like to relax and have break from the suffers, known as top tier Italy.
this shit sucks. i'd rather use a M14 against KV-1Bs than using Arietes vs Leopard 2A7Vs.
@@Paronak gaijin using winrate for balancing was the worst choice ever. Just makes skilled players suffer.
@@Supjd_YT im rank 50000 in Ground RB and i only play italy. for whatever it's worth. i guess playing italy makes you a better player
@@Paronak italy will always be number one in my books heh
@@Supjd_YT I absolutely love the look of the Italian reserve planes.
That is kinda conclusive but as a "seal clubber" identified here with 9.2k hours it is sometimes just fun to drive something absurdly fast for the battle rating...? Like driving the M22 or a BT-7M, and just gunning it straight down the right flank on advance to the rhine and then run and gun everything you see, not necessarily hitting anything, but hey, fun?
When I get home from work, the last thing I want to do is point and click adventures in top tier. I'd much rather hop into my Chi-Ha LG and A6M2-N, or 2C bis and SB2C-5 and enjoy the game.
Most of the "low tier fun tier" crowd would quickly shut up if they were to play some games of bottom tier but only against other lvl 100's, with all their knowledge of meta vehicles and tactics. There is absolutely nothing inherently and objectively more fun about bottom tiers.
Low tier is a completely different experience than top tier, and yes, I do see plenty of lv 100's in low tier. Half the time they're as brain dead as the lv 5 next to them.
@@pyro111100 Cause lvl means nothing. Lvl 100 can be bad cause : A) They are bad in general and huge amount of hours grant them lvl 100
B) They were Air players that touched ground for first time
C) Bad day or something
They mostly find it fun BECAUSE they face weaker opposition. The rest is cope
@IonGirbea-ec5dn If I want weak opposition, I'll just play top tier to get easy credits from the wallet warriors buying premiums
It's more fun because you don't get insta-killed from across the map nearly as often. It's what people think of when you think "tanks fighting each other". Plus the planes aren't such a nussiance at low tiers either, at high tiers it's just like... why am I even playing this when all I do is get porked by planes I can't see...
To me, whenever I played and noticed and was told- that level 100's played on 1.0's.. I just- slowly and slowly got mad that those players, and just forever think of them as basement dwellers. Even when my friends tell me "It's better Kayla come on and play." I just- always say "Yea It's "Better" to enjoy your balls being crushed, by some fat discord mod that's level 100.. Yea I'm sure It's "Better" dude." and I just STAY the hell away from WT, cause of those people.
And tbh games like this, need some sort of like- skill based or leveled based matchmaking.. Like If your account Is level 100 and you go Into 1.0's, It should put you In 1.0's with other level 100's etc! Boom fixed. But nope, prob never gonna happen. :/
Yes, if you really wanna play low BR you should be matched with people like you (there seema to be no shortage of those)
Such an annoying thing, all new players go to top tier with money and all the maxed out players go down (unless their Italy low tier they can be a pain to deal with, if their Italy, put them out of their misery)
Yup. Like 80% of the time you get killed is by a high tier, experienced player who slaughters the entire enemy team and gets 10+ kills.
And if you do kill them you'll immediately get revengebombed with a premium plane.
Why do i do it? Because playing low tier tanks can often be more fun than other tanks
aka skill issue
@@nikolaperic6307it's more so low tier tanks are just funner and cooler
@@nikolaperic6307like I love driving around in the Italy AS 42/46, a litteral jeep with a cannon on it. Is it great? No. A mg will kill the entire crew. But it's fun
A@@nikolaperic6307He didn't say easier, he just said more fun. Which, imo, is true. A lot of those early interwar tanks are goofy af and make for some hilarious moments.
I bet you would shut up if you were to play other level 100s at low tier
i do it if i want to help a friend get into war thunder, but mostly i skip that br, seal clubbing is not that much fun for me, rather clubbing elephants with seals
Very well made video, easy to follow for both new players, and experienced players as well.
i appreciate it :)
@@Wubb333 No problem! This was also pretty cool to watch as well!
why are level 100s play ing rank 1?? its more fun than top tier
True.. as a lvl 30-40 I often go down a tier or two just to unwind after stressful gind at higher tiers.
The problem is, it's not fun for everyone else.
Low tier is totally fun? tottaly NOT because its easy to kill new players but facing tryhards at your own br and dying is not funny 🤡🤡🤡
Man they really have no self awareness
This is literally why i dont play war thunder that much. Cause i suck at the game, can’t get better because these pros keep destroying me and quit cause its frustrating
It's depressing
Gaijin wants you to buy the premium vehicles, that’s why they allow it
Speaking as somebody with far too much time in WT who plays lower tiers semi-regularly, it depends on the day. Some days I have an itch for my BT-7 shenanigans, other days I just enjoy the low stakes, sometimes spading a new vehicle, sometimes playing with a friend new to the game or helping them grind. I try to avoid strictly 1.0 cause the few times I do go down its always a bitter feeling of unintentionally stomping
Dude, amazing video! Congrats🎉
its always refreshing to see a positive comment 💜
That was fun. I got to whistler for the first time last month. Felt so weird taking a gondola down a mountain.