I am an Australian (Perth, WA) who recently bought an MG4 Excite 51 for AUD $31,700 (USD$21,000). It gets around 350km of range and I use about 12 kWh of battery per day. I use the trickle charger for most of my charging. It costs me 10c per kWh at night which is $1.20. I am currently charging it for free at home on the weekend because I have solar panels and so it costs me very little to charge. I have used a free 7 kWh charger in the gym car park provided by the city council which is cool. I have used a paid charger a couple of times at 45c per kWh. The first time was a top up charge of 10 kWh for $4.80. The second time was charging from 20% to 80% which was 30 kWh and cost $14.90 (USD $10). OPEC knows that their days are numbered. EVs are better. They are cheaper to buy now. Cheaper to run. Have better tech. Just better.
I'd have to stop at public chargers, for three hours of charging every day to go to work and back. Turns an 8 hr day into an 11 hr day, 5 days a week,' To go prospecting on the weekend it would be the same.
Exactly....if electricity prices increase to the point where gas is the better option, then I'd park my EV and get a ICE car. Great thing about that is that EV can chill in the garage plugged in but at a max charge of 50% for battery longevity and can stay that way without much maintenance other than tire rotation.
@@lauchlanguddy1004 Yes, and EV is already a big battery on wheels, it can charge when sun shines. It makes energy like 2X cheaper, because you don't need an intermediary battery.
@@lauchlanguddy1004 It is free when the government pays all the upfront costs, and the Maintenace costs. Some power companies charge the customer when the customer's solar panels produce more electricity than the company wants! Please talk to a person with solar panels.
Everyone’s situation is different. I had an EV, a used Leaf. I paid very little for a 4 year old car with 34,000 miles. I drove it for 6 years, cost me a set of tires. Nissan put a new main battery under warranty after one year. I charged at night after work for free at the Nissan dealership, topped off overnight on the included charger at home. I sold it for a little over half what I paid for it, as it really didn’t fit my needs any longer. It was a fantastic car, never had any issues with it.
With respect to the depreciation comments that keep coming up, it's not strictly about the loss of value of the vehicle so much as there was INSANE used car price jumps during COVID that prices have now fallen off of. They're comparing against an abnormal set of values and circumstances. Beyond that, new techonology always starts more highly priced until the manufacturer can gain economies of scale, the slope of supply approaches the slope of demand, and cost-cutting and production improvements drive down prices. Naturally with EV's being new tech, you can buy a newer EV today at a lower price relative to an older EV bought a few years ago. It's that variance in the pricing of the new vehicles that is really driving the precipitous drop in the used market since it would make no sense to buy an older used EV for more than what you would purchase a new one. As the price of new vehicles plateaus, the used market levels into something more normative as well. Anyone who is an early adopter of new tech just has to accept that unless what you purchased becomes a "collectible", the resale value of that purchase is going to drop until it hits mass market norms. Comparing the change in price of used EV's to the change in price of used gas cars is intellectualy dishonest in the way they're doing it because they're comparing new tech/new product to older established tech/product and trying to maintain that the older tech is better because of the secondary resale price retention. This is already becoming a false equivalency now that we're largely past the covid used car market bubble, and slope of the COGS curve for the new cars is becoming less steep.
Also, new car prices have substantially decreased since the start of Covid, with price drops of $10-20K for various models, ie Tesla. Obviously used cars should not be selling for more than a new car under normal circumstances.
I enjoy these because they come from a position of education not insult, as well as break down the facts and how you got them. Keep up the great work ben.
Selling EV Hate is profitable There are a number of EV lovers selling it here on TH-cam and other platforms, Joe Rogan is one, he loves his Tesla model S
Great video! Makes me happy to see you debunk this GUY. His niche is all about appealing to EV haters in order to generate clicks, views, and likes. It is sad when someone uses lies and deception instead of providing honest and truthful information.
In the middle of the day Australias national grid is now hitting over 75% solar, and prices during these times are dirt cheap. He's just another Gordon Johnson, or Scotty Kilmer, he can lie adamantly. Probably helps being a lawyer.
I talk to people in insurance - guess who is paying for the 10% discount. When 50% of the cars are EV, guess what will happen to EV electric charges, they will more than double - someone has to pay for road Maintenace. At the moment it is the ICE users, not the EVs. NOT a single politician did any maths, and the greenies have stopped talking about the money issues. When EVs are all getting their free energy from their roof tops, the government will charge a road usage tax on them.
@@mddell24 Australia imports about $50 billion worth of gasoline pa. When people get EVs more and more of that money will stay in the country instead of heading overseas. That will be good for the economy and our health. It's all swings and roundabouts.
@@mddell24 You "talk to people in insurance". No worries. 😂 EV drivers should pay their fare share of road costs. I am an EV driver and more than willing to pay my fair share! But on the flip side, have you ever considered broadening your perspective? EVs actually have the ability to save the government money, for example on health system costs. You would I trust, know that tail pipe pollution is responsible for a significant level of respiratory illness in the community, also potentially assosciated with early mortality. Imagine if that problem could at least be reduced if not bought to an end eventually. It's short sighted to fail to gather a big picture perspective on the pros and cons of any product, maybe even mischievous at times.
I pay $1,200 per year for my full coverage insurance for my 2024 Tesla model 3 LR AWD. I had owned a 2017 Toyota 4Runner I paid exactly the same amount. My wife’s 2018 Camry LE is $900 per year. I don’t understand why people complain about the rate. I think the most important is how old are you and what is your driving history.
We live in western Sydney. (Penrith) We own a Tesla and a BYD Atto 3. We do 500km+ per Week ie: Work - Penrith to Botany etc every day. We automatically charge both cars over night We run a 5 bed room air conditioned house (anyone living in Penrith knows why you need air con) . Our power bill is $120 per month. (about $30 per week to run the house and both cars - ROOF TOP SOLAR!) . We drive to Jervis Bay once a month ... we stop and charge at a Tesla super charger ... the trip costs $15. . Prior to moving to EVs we were spending $120 per week per car. . Thats approx $240 per week ... thats over $50,000 on petrol alone over 5 years. (more than the Atto 3 which has a 7 year warranty) . If you live in western Sydney and compute to work get an EV. . We were also spending $8000+ a year on tolls (FK Trans Urban) . The new NSW $60 per week toll cap is also a blessing. . Just the facts on the ground in Western Sydney ... GET AN EV.
@@judithgopnik9744 mate how is your electricity so cheap. It’s $800 a quarter for me in Fairfield. 4 person house hold, 3kw solar, never run ac, ensure appliances are used during solar generation etc.
Yes an excellent real life example. I live in Gosford work in Mascot. It is 108km one way. If I charge overnight the cost is $3.65. My wife’s GM Holden would cost about $18.00 for the same trip. Truly staggering savings!
Hi Ben. Love your work, and I also recommended MGUY to your webpage. As an Australian, I can attest that many EV owners are on EV specific power plans. With mine (Ovo) I get 8c a kW overnight - I can fully charge my 51kW MG4 for $4.08. Due to excess solar I get free energy from the grid btn 11am - 2pm. I can charge my EV for free. It would be rare that someone is solely charging on a Tesla supercharger - and you routinely see Tesla's on the non-Tesla chargers - often at 50c a kW. Australian EV ownership is a dream. As usual MGUY is full of it.
You do realise that if you're charging overnight in Australia on cheap off peak power, you're running your EV on 70% to 80% coal, and it's not really any cleaner than an ICE.....don't you?
@@peeemm2032 Are you complaining that someone is using Aussie coal instead of Middle Eastern oil? Where’s your patriotism?????? Besides, coal turbines take days to start up and shut down. They are forced to keep running when demand is very low so they still pollute whether someone buys that energy or not. As for EVs being cleaner than ICE? Numerous studies emphatically say YES! Even when powering up on coal.
@@peeemm2032it depends on where you live. There is a website that shows where load is being supplied by accessing the National Energy Market. It updates every 15 minutes or so. The National Grid in Australia, which also monitors metering and supply management, has a website and chart to show the NEM Supply, the Market availability for each State, based on the suppliers for each MW of power being supplied to the grid. If you charge during the day, 30-90% of NEM load will be solar, not just home solar supply. Overnight, Gas, Wind, Coal are mixed in each state past midnight to roughly 6AM
@@lesmajoros333 Much of that middle eastern oil actually comes from Russia. It is transshipped in UAE to hide its origin, then refined in Singapore, further muddying its provenance. So ICE drivers in Australia are supporting Putin's genocide in Ukraine.
What dawned on me recently was that the many governments choosing to invest in sustainable energy technology, while perceived to be costly, is one of the few or only examples of our politicians being forward looking and fiscally responsible. The long-term effects of these policies will save everyone money and reduce costs in so many ways. Most of them in healthcare, which will just happen because we're breathing air with less pm 2.5 particles. So, who really cares if it's being forced in some cases. We usually have to scream from the rooftops for better spending habits and they never are realized. Now we just need politicians and scientists to stop spending money on expensive carbon capture tech and use the low-tech method. Plant more trees with that money. Let the trees balance the C02, because they are good at it and won't reduce C02 too much and cause the opposite issue, a global ice age.
Here in Oregon we have a big timber industry and grow lots of trees, and of course the carbon is locked up in the timber, so unless that gets burnt we're good! We also generate most of our electricity with hydroelectric.
@@ziploc2000 Yep, most important part is to lock it up in a cycle. What we do today is pull if form deep under ground so we are adding C02 to the currently normal cycle. So we need to make sure there's enough trees to support the full cycle.
In my experience over the past several years, it seems like 99% of people who hate EVs have literally never even ridden in one. I have personally had a hater ride in my Model3 and they were astonished and by the end of the ride they wanted to buy one. These haters are just uninformed and primed with FUD, so it's great that you are doing what you can do debunk stuff like this.
@@BlazerRox It's not a matter of reiterating your point. Your "point" is only relying on one aspect of the vehicle, it's performance. I bought my first V8 car after going for a ride in my brother's first V8 car, so I'm still not sure why you think your EV is special because "someone wanted one after going for a ride in it"? The video "apparently" addressed many elements around EVs that certain people consider to be FUD. The presenter is quick to use the term "cherry picking" yet did cherry picking himself. I note he didn't "debunk" Mguy's video on State Farm removing EV chargers from all their business premises due to fire risk? If the USA's largest motor vehicle insurer is saying the chances of an EV on charge going up in smoke, is too high a risk to be adequately mitigated at this point in time???? Yet they aren't banning all those ICE cars off the premises, that according to the FUD spreading EV fan boys, "are up to a 100 times higher fire risk"? The insurance company is in possession of all the fire data, and made their decision based on such. I won't hold my breath waiting for some EV internet "expert" to try an effectively debunk that one, they'll just ignore State Farm's decision, as it flies in the face of their confirmation bias.
Well it depends on the charger and the network, really. I find the WA EV Network chargers to be super reliable, as they use mostly Kempower units. The Tritium-powered Evie and BP Pulse networks and the ABB Chargefox chargers also tend to be pretty good. Tesla's is as reliable here as it is worldwide.
MGUY's Bio: "Brit in Australia with a 2014 Porsche 981 Boxster and a 1971 MG Midget!" Yes, we define people by their cars. He gives me the shtz. He asserted that a house fire in NZ a year ago was caused by an EV being charged. I told him on YT that NZ Fire & Emergency said that the fire began at the rear of the house, far from the garage where the EV was parked (and not actually being charged.) He never retracted it. For a "lawyer and engineer" he's not too sharp or honest. How much is he being paid by the ICE makers and Oilers?
You're surprised that a dishonest lawyer is out there? If you're not in the US come on over and get a load of the Turmp and Republican lawyers many of them who become politicians.
There are several videos from bystanders clearly showing the EV on fire in the garage burning before the rest of the house caught fire. Several New Zealand journalists also stated that they were not allowed to report any negatives about EV's and Government employees were also told the same thing. That government recently lost the election!
When I traded my ATS-V in on a Lyriq my insurance went up $2 for six months. 95% of the time I charge in my garage, which is much cheaper than gas. Only the rare dc fast charging has rates similar to gas around me. Even though my Lyriq is big, heavy, awd, with 500hp, it is much cheaper to drive than my old ATS-V.
I have two teslas just sold my old 21 m3p and added my new 24 m3p and my insurance went DOWN $500 a year! yea I think the insurance companies are learning. My Model 3 never added enough to my electric bill to notice a difference , cant wait to see how much the new CT will add to it. I guarantee it will be way way less than the $1200 a month in fuel I was spending on gas in my old truck.
We came across a guy like this at a motel in Australia. Wouldn't leave us alone and did his best to wreck our time away. Called reception and explained. Happened to be the owner. Guy and wife kicked out and banned from returning!
Don’t forget that Hertz dumped a massive number of Teslas in the used EV market. Depreciation is a clownish stat because there are many factors that affect the current market value of a vehicle’s trade in or sale.
Yeah, and the ICE parrots / bots did a pretty good job installing FUDs in the mind of many consumers... But anyway, they're just trying to push as much as they can the inevitable. Majority of those ICE companies are going down the drain, just hope they'll wake up before they go bankrupt, we need competition.
Probably one of the sillier statements that I have seen really. Depreciation is a very real thing if you're buying or selling a vehicle imo and a big part of the total cost of ownership. EV depreciation is a big issue in many places and Hertz dumping EVs in the US has nothing to do with it.
@@oldbloke204 This depreciation stuff is directly related by false beliefs and lies spread by ICE companies that want to have more time trying to catch up! It'll eventually stabilise into the real value. For the time being, i don't care, i lease!
and Hertz is not one of them, All ev manufacturers seem to be reducing their prices quite a lot recently, and as a result used vehicles are now more affordable. This is the biggest disruption in the auto industry since the model T. Ev tech is advancing so quickly and component prices are falling in response, also solar, wind, and battery storage are all adding to the mix. In just a few years evs will be cheaper to buy and cheaper to run, more convenient, and go as far as any gas car ---- watch this space.
@@TerryHickey-xt4mf This distance stuff is a bit strange when we know ~90% of trips fall under 60KM. Add to that, stopping for 20-30 min every, say, 350KM is quite normal.
In my personal experience, the whole depreciation thing is a myth. I bought my EV new 6 months ago. I just checked on the car buying sites out of curiosity and got offers from $600 to $1000 more than I paid. Maybe the market in here Colorado is atypical.
Lol - Sydney is not like New York. Only about 4% of the over 5 million population live in the actual Sydney precinct. And even a lot of those would have underground or off street parking. Sydney is a huge sprawling city bordered by the Blue Mountains in the west, the Hawkesbury River in the north and the Royal National Park and the Hacking river in the south (the Tasman sea to the east). There's a reason 90% of people in Australia charge at home. Because most of them have garages, driveways or dedicated parking spots. MGuy is a total shill, probably paid for by Shell or BP out of their "influencer budget".
As an Australian living in Sydney i must apologies for this BS from a fellow Sydney sider. I have had an EV (Volvo XC40 recharge Twin) and had cost me less the a $200 (AUD) in electric to travel of 15000km. I have a vey good electricity plan and a 12.4kw solar system with 10kwh battery. I pay very little for electricity (including the car) and still produce more electricity than I use (over a 12 month period) The insurance cost is about the same as my previous car which cost about 1/2 as much as the Volvo. I have save hours not needing to go and stand at a petrol pump. This guy has clearly never driven a EV or know how to do any sort of basic research.
@@maxhugen solar has already paid for it self (took about 3 years) battery has been in for 2 years and will take longer but also covers us for blackouts so os a form of insurance.
So just for some real world data we charge during the day one day a week on a sunny day our 6.3kw solar array generates enough energy to give us another weeks range of normal driving like dropping the kids to school and shopping runs and getting to work and back and honestly thats mostly what anyone is gonna do with a car . 30kwh gets us about 250km and since our solar panels have covered their own cost it is exactly $0 to charge the car .
Solar and wind is going gangbusters both with household and commercial. Coal stations are running at losses and closing early. When we build enough batteries it will be a no brainer.. Just about any above minor bingle on ICE cars gets them written off. The price of solar is crashing and by using home batteries and solar hot water, you are laughing.
it reminds me of when I was a kid, you had to be a 'mod' or a 'rocker' no in between. When all this eventually blows over, what will be the next love/hate topic ? Anyway it makes a lot of money for all TH-cam channels, and provides me with endless amusement. I own an ev, so I am already lost to the anti ev cause. My neighbor asked me just last week, I see your car has not exploded yet! and sounded quite genuine. I told him my car has LFP batteries, but he just glazed over, nice guy though and a good friend, live and let live.
@@TerryHickey-xt4mf Just joke about it with them... "yeah mate i change batteries in this thing like how you change AAs in a kid's RC toy mate. Costs me an arm and a leg mate", and do so with a big old smile on your face.
Sticking with the Aussie anti EV folks, i recommend John Cadogan - Auto Expert. He used to be informative, but has since leaned into the hate and i had to stop watching.
@@BenSullinsOfficial Side note.... I defiantly would consider getting a Vinfast VF3 if they come to the UK... 220km range rwd low power 40hp(I recon a 100hp tune or motor upgrade is possible) so low insurance....
@@BenSullinsOfficial Yeah, and he loves playing with numbers like Median VS Average (Elon Musk walks into a room, everyone becomes a millionaire on AVERAGE - while the MEDIAN barely twitches ). He actually likes EV's but his followers don't. He lost me as a subscriber a year or so ago when he played obvious mental twister to prove EV's were more polluting than ICE.
Electricity prices going up simply improves the ROI for my PV array. My Tesla charges itself, while I sleep, with the free juice. I waste zero time nor money at filling stations. YMMV...😎
I talk to people who own an EV to learn about electric vehicles. I don’t go to TH-cam sites for facts. I actually placed my order for an Aptera over a year ago, now patiently waiting.
@@humnpwr ah, the aptera… like nuclear fusion, always a few years away, but it will be amazing when it arrives!!! I do actually think they’re great, btw
@@humnpwr I am well aware of it. I reserved it 16 years ago and got my reservation back. ALSO! It is NOT a car. It is considered a three wheel motorcycle.
I bought my first EV in August 2021 here in Western Australia , it has cost a pittance (29c/kwh) to charge and uses about 50/wh per km on average. In February this year someone bumped into the back of the Livewire at a stop sign , it took. 6 months for Harley Davidson t sort the parts needed . I had to resort to using my ICE car (A Ls1 Powered VY One toner Ute) that gets about 13/L 100km and was costing me over $100 AUD a week. In April this year I bought a 2019 SR+ Model 3. Up until the Model 3 purchace my benchmark car was a Holden 1971 LC GTR Torana (still have it) . every car I had driven since the GTR just felt underwhelming until I bought the Model 3. It works , is affordable to own and just gets on with the job of transporting me to work or to see friends , and although it's not performance Model 3 fast , is still a fast car.
Georgia insurance is pretty high, and had I gone from my VW GTI to a Tesla MY, my insurance would have tripled. However other cars were more reasonable. I ended up in a Volvo XC40 and my insurance went up on a basically new car by $15/month. Going EV was a financial decision for me, but so glad I did, and now I don't think I'll ever go back to full ICE. However, most of my good feelings came in after getting my home charging set up and moving from level 1 to level 2 (240v). Now I don't rely on public charging and instead use them for convenience if by a location I'll be at for a bit, or if necessary, as on a road trip. Range isn't so much of an issue as I look at it as I do the battery in my cell. I charge it when I need to and when I won't be using it for awhile. I've only once sort of panicked during a road trip and it was because I hadn't scoped the area out with plug share.
Here in France, 2 year old Citroen Amis are selling for more than their original purchase price, in spite of the fact that they are possibly one of the least practical EVs on the market.
I think he might have a point with on street parking. I've read some news about some cities in Australia giving a hard time to some folks trying to charge their cars at home not having off street parking. Don't recall exactly where though, but losing out on home charging is definitely a hit to an EV advantage. Still better in a lot of ways than ICE, but still a big hit. Also, even my PHEV has charge scheduling...so my car can charge ITSELF when I tell it to without doing anything more than...plugging it in when I park it and setting the schedule. We don't have ToD pricing here, so a non-issue at the moment but an option if/when they do.
A big majority of Australians live in separate homes (bungalows) in the suburbs. The really old parts of Sydney with terraced houses and no off street parking are very expensive and inner city. If you can afford to live there, you can afford to pay for fast charging.
I am paying $75 a month for full coverage on my 2021 tesla model y through Tesla insurance in Ohio, and in 11 months and 15,200 miles I have paid a total of $212 to charge.
I have an Ioniq 5 SEL Dual Motor. It has almost $20k miles on it. We own a home with solar and have a level 2 charger in the garage. My partner also has an EV, VW ID.4, and we get enough solar to power our house and power both EVs annually. When all is said and done, we make about $50 from the utility company on the electricity we contribute to the grid. And the shocker! We live in MINNESOTA! In the winter, especially when the solar panels are covered with snow, we pay our monthly electric bill almost in full. Almost because we still get some solar energy through the snow. Between Spring, Summer, and Fall we get more than enough energy to overcome what we pay out over the winter. Basically we get paid by the utility company in the summer and pay out in the winter. When all is said and done, we make about $50. So in reality, we charge for free! When I go on road trips I pay for fast charging. I calculated how much that costs compared to a gas powered car and figured out that I pay about the same on a road trip as I would if I was driving a car that got 25 MPG. Being that my car is a crossover SUV, that's not bad at all. The other great thing about this is that the cost of our solar panels is close to even only after about 4.5 years when all the savings are added up. Heck, that's also absorbed the additional cost I paid for my car over what a comparable ICE vehicle costs. Although comparable is hard to find because any ICE vehicle crossover SUV that does 0 - 60 in 4.4 seconds costs close to if not over $100k. So it's hard to compare my car to ICE vehicles because my car drives way better. Oh, and on the environmental front, due to my car mostly being driven from solar, it's already overcome the initial higher CO2 impact over an ICE vehicle during manufacturing. So it is truly a zero emission vehicle now! Did I buy the car to save money? Nope. I bought it because I care about the environment and well....of all the vehicles I have owned over the last 38 or so years, it's the best driving car ever! It took one test drive and I was blown away at how awesome it is!!!
MGUY is most certainly Australian if he holds Australian citizenship, which he probably does. A British citizen is considered a foreigner in Australia and cannot live and work in Australia indefinitely. Does his house look like a rental to you?
Also, where I live, the apartment owners cannot deny you access to you charging your car, provided it doesn't block access for anyone. So I just run my charge cable out my kitchen window and across the sidewalk, lol. I use a bit of weather stripping for the would-be gap in the window from the cord. I even set my cord on the windowsill, so when I back in I just open my window and there's the charge cable.
We have an M3P, it is now 4.5 years old. We have 5kW solar on the roof and electric hot water. The only time we pay for charging is on road trips. Our typical power bill is $10.
Hell some of us live in apartments and have solar. I've got a similarly sized solar setup and live in a low-rise apartment complex. Love not having to pay for power!
My cybertruck costs nearly half as much to ensure versus my old dodd ram. And get this, when I added the ram to the policy, it dropped my rates by another $120 . 🤯
Ben… kudos on being so polite. Here in Australia, we’d just describe this bloke a lying sack of…. Well, you can probably guess. Thanks for doing the work on this.
MGUY won't respond to this video, I stopped watching him quite a while ago as I got tired of his negativity. Yes, I own an EV (EV6) it's by far the best car I've ever owned. I do have an off grid system so all of my charging is from daylight. I haven't paid one cent for fuel in the last two years. Never been to a DCFC. Insurance slightly higher than previous car, registration actually a bit cheaper. No battery degradation, I'm getting more than the stated range. Great video Ben, MGUY need to pull his head in a bit !!!
He's also not a somewhat experienced Mechanic, like Scotty is. Back before he went on his anti-EV tirades he was kind of a good place to get somewhat okay advice on cars... Now the dude's literally off his rocker and thinks anything other than a '94 Celica is an unreliable shitbox.
In my experience it's not that much different in money from at the pump to charging at stations. I saw a Chevy Bolt charge 180 range for around 24 dollars. My Mazda 6 gets 180 range for about 18 dollars at 3 dollars a gallon. That's close to same for me. But I don't sit there for an hour. I'm in NJ BTW.
And like many EV owners have said, and some of Ben's videos have pointed out, you don't have to sit and wait for your car to charge overnight. Yes, it's different at a public charger, but the vast majority of people aren't using them on a daily basis either outside of a road trip. Electricity prices aren't nearly as volatile as gas prices are, where it can jump up 20 cents that same day if someone sneezes in the Middle East. I pay $40-60 a month to drive my Model Y about 1000 miles/1600 km a month going to work and back, and weekly shopping trips. I also love not having to visit gas stations every week, and pumping fuel in blizzards, sweltering and sticky heat waves, or during torrential downpours. And safely preheating/cooling the cabin in the garage on really cold/hot days. Sure, EV's won't work for everyone. But they could work for a lot of people if there wasn't so much anti-EV FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt) out there claiming how EV's are bad.
I have a BYD Atto3 and have never, let me repeat that, NEVER charged at a Tesla supercharger. I use public charging stations ALL THE TIME for several reasons, but in general, never charged at a higher rate than 68c per kw/h. My car will do 400km in one single charge and i pay roughly 30$ for every full charge (which you never do anyways because you world never let go down to 0%). Anti EV haters will go to very long lengths to lie about EVs and i honestly struggle to understand what they are so afraid of.
As a Tesla owner? I think the Atto 3 is a solid car. Incredible value for the price and one of the best batteries on the market (so much so that in some markets BYD Cells make their way into Base Teslas, oddly enough)
4:29 Even in Jakarta, a city with 32 million people. And land as dense as Manhattan. Wuling mini ev has a small battery and even the charger uses 3.2kWh .From home is not a problem Using 30 meters of cable is not a problem.
I mean it’s Indonesia… south East Asian electrical work is a meme and a half, but hey! It works! (Dw we do the same thing in apartments here in Australia)
My insurance costs are pretty reasonable for my Model Y. Also pretty sweet to pay 3¢ kwhr in New Mexico at night with the new off peak EV meter rate. Only regret was I bought before the used market matured.
If somebody is selling one year old Ioniq 5 for half the price I'll buy it without hesitation. I know about this Mguy but his content is not something I would digest easily. I invested some money in my home with 16kWp solar, heat pump and two USED EVs. My monthly electricity bill is now 10.92€ and includes heating/cooling my home, charging two cars and all other electricity. There is no Xguy that can tell me that that's bad.
Ben, I rent without the benefit of solar in country NSW, Australia. My energy provider has a scheme where they schedule the charging during low grid demand periods. Because of this I just come home, plug in and walk away. My Au Telsa then charges for $0.088/ kWh almost free anyway. Also, because I charge at home although it takes longer to fast charge when I “have to”, I find I now nearly never spend any time fuelling my Tesla! As you’d expect!🎉
Hi there . An Australian here . Home OWNERSHIP is becoming a thing of the past here in the Major Cities . Most people are Renters . Therefore , No authority to install Charging Stations on the Property . Also , the Lithium Batteries are NOT currently safe . Chemical Instability issues . Being an American , you should probably speak to your OWN circumstances , Buddy .
@@Luka_3D . Let's go with - - - - " Don't Spontaneously Conflagrate " . And a Lithium Battery , when it goes , will Burn Under Water . Un-Extinguishable . Will that do ?
@@johncunningham4820 By your own definition, a gas car isn't safe. And no, lithium battery fires will not burn under water. They don't reach a high enough temperature, which is why firefighters put them out with water.
@@Luka_3D. The Batteries HAVE OXYGEN in their Chemical Make-Up . All water Spraying does in provide Boundary Cooling in the hope that the Fire doesn't spread . And the Fire involved is Extremely Hot . BTW , Lithium is one of those Metals in the same Periodic Table section as , Calcium , Sodium and Magnesium . Look it up . And read up on the properties of THOSE Metals . Then come back and shoot your mouth off some more .
@@Luka_3D . Lithium fires don't burn under water you say . Clearly you know nothing of Chemistry . Lithium , Beryllium , Calcium , Potassium , Sodium and Magnesium are a group of Metals that turn up in a tight group , Top Left of the Periodic Table of the Elements . They all have some Common properties but different Atomic weights . One of those Common Properties is - - they ALL react , spontaneously with water . Sodium and Potassium in a particularly VIOLENT way . The Fires from these various Elements can be " Surface of the Sun " HOT . Gasoline / Petrol VAPOURS are what can be really dangerous , for the Terminally Stupid . And Diesel Fuel is positively LOW risk . I have to assume you are a Green-washing " Eco Warrior " , Yes ? EV charging really isn't particularly " Green " you realise , what with the sheer NUMBERS of Coal and Gas fired Power Stations out there , now having to run at Higher Output .
In Australia a low-value trade-in, the government incentives and Tesla's recent offering to provide Novated Leaseholders $3,000 cashback effectively pushes the cost of a Model 3 down to A$53,000, which works out to be around $25-27,000 US.
Depreciation? My Model 3 Performance has indeed lost around 55% of it’s value. Minor detail, that’s over a period of five years! Meanwhile, our Grand Cherokee diesel has lost even more!
It depends, I have a Model Y since 2021, and I cannot charge at home, but there are on almost every street corner parking lot an AC charging pole with 2 plugs where I can charge my car over night.. Not as cheap as charging at home using solar panels, but still a lot cheaper than pumping gas.. Because there are so many charge poles here, it is just as comvenient as charging at home... Fill up your car while you sleep. In my city of 60.000 people there are about 400 charging poles installed at public parking lots scattered throughout the city, with each 2 plugs.. That is even more as in that 20 times bigger city Sydney... and this number will double the coming 2-3 years! It also shows in the increasing number of EV's.. More and more people decide to buy an EV, instead of a gas car.. from my personal observations, my guess is that around 10% of all cars driving around in my city are now electric, and that number is increasing fast!
Our state in Australia has electricity prices capped the other states are not capped. Need to really shop around for Insurance lowest I've seen is $829 per year. So easy to charge with standard house hold plug.
I love the FUD buster direction of your channel. Thank you for calling out all this misinformation. This helps us pro-EV folks fight the good fight. Keep it up! #datadoesnotcareaboutyourfeelings
Even in compact city state I live in, we have many EV chargers all within walking distance from our apartment blocks, despite the fact that majority of us do not even drive let alone own private transportation. The funny thing is, our public buses are still diesel powered.
I, and about a solid 30% of all Australians live in Strata (multiple dwelling) accomodations. Out of those about two thirds of strata dwellings are Green Title units, so only about 10% or so of aussies live in apartments. The charging network in cities is more than capable of handling all those people.
I think Mguy is the one I saw do a video on an EV he owned and had a nightmare roadtrip with. He was doing everything wrong and bashing the car and the way EV charging works. I could be wrong and clearly there is room for at least two of these clueless guys out there. Great video Ben.
I bet the same thing played out when the horse and wagon were replaced by the Model T and it happened quickly. They are raging against change, but in 5 years they will change and accept the new reality.
@@Rabs73 : so true. For laughs, sometimes I end up telling them what want to they hear. That the car burnt down our house for the third time this year. That I’m on my 5th battery because they often wear out within a month. That I can’t drive further than to the shops because of range anxiety. That I spend $1 million a year on electricity fuelling it up. That the radiation from the battery gives everybody headaches and has made me sterile. Then I say: “well, that’s the FOX News version. Do you want to hear the truth?”
He’s right on one point though: if you do choose to run your EV exclusively from DC fast chargers, it costs the same as gasoline. I did the calculation for my Rivian in San Diego on Electrify America about a year ago, and it came out the same cost per mile as a truck that does 17mpg. Best charge at home, folks.
Ben, the flaw in your opening is that even if "most" people charge at home.... most people don't have a home where they can charge a car so as/if more EVs are forced upon us most people will not be charging at home.... AND .... EVs actually have 80% more problems then petrol cars as the statistics now show. You need to argue on the facts not the promise.
His statement was more based on the fact that most current ev owners own a home where they can charge overnight. I'd like to expand a bit on who can charge an ev at home though. Most people could charge at home if we got around the red tape issues. We have electricity on most roads where people live and in most homes. How much of a stretch is it to fit a 10 amp plug to where someone parks?
@@BenSullinsOfficial it's simple maths ... 86% of the current EV owners live with off-street parking.... but if/when EVs are forced on all of us the percentage of people who have off-street parking will be the same as it is now... and if you live in a city that's not many.
@@Luka_3D the problem is if you only have on-street parking there are major safety concerns and costs. You can't run a cable from your house out to the street and you can't put in a road-side charger because you will be lucky if you ever get that same spot again.
@@RoverIAC I've actually had a presentation about this recently in showing to my local utility company that said safety concerns were overblown for the amount of power that most people need for their daily needs. They were under the assumption that every ev needs to have access to 20 kw of power meanwhile the reality is that most people can make do with 2 kw. That amount of power can be safely transmitted over existing wiring that powers public streetlights if the lights were designed for older sodium bulbs and were upgraded to leds.
Thank you for another great video Ben! I live in Australia and drive my model Y twenty thousand kilometres a year almost completely for free from the solar on my roof :)
I am paying A$890.00 for my 2019 Tesla M3P with an agreed valve and high excess. It's cheapest I have ever paid so far. Haven't had a "service" for 3 years (wiper blades and cabin filter only). Huge savings charging of my own solar and Powerwall. There are electricity plans in Australia for owners with no solar to charge for 8c/kWhr overnight.
I am Australian and drive an EV for the the last 3 years. This MGUY is nuts and probably works for the fossil fuel companies. I have solar and charge from home 100% of the time and my electricity account is in credit. Car insurance is comparable to a fossil vehicles. On a recent 6 week trip up north we covered 7000km and had no issues finding chargers, we mostly used destination chargers at places we stayed which were all free.
The small amount of increased insurance I pay to have an EV is less than what one tank of gas costs. My insurance increased about $25 more a month when I break it down. The last tank of gas I ever filled, it was awhile ago because I no longer own a gas powered vehicle, was around $55.
Hi Ben Thank you for the debunking! I'm an Australian electrician and lease a BYD Atto 3. I'm an educated EV advocate, with a deep understanding of the pros & cons of EV ownership, and have been involved in numerous proposed commercial EV charging station preliminary investigations (does a site have availabile capacity based on supply cables and historical load analytics etc). Currently EV ownership in Australia for home owners with a driveway is a no brainer. If you add in a solar PV system the equation only get substantially more pro EV. In my case I have a 10kW PV system, and even though I live in southern Tasmania (kind of the Minnesota of Australia), including running the house and doing 99% of my vehicles charging, I only pay AUD$250 for power a year, which comes in the winter monthly bills. And my house is 100% electrified - I got rid of all Natural Gas appliances and got the gas supply cut off (heat pump hot water, induction cooktop). What is still majorly problematic is that regional public EV charging is barely adequate in many areas. There is only 1 Tesla Supercharger site in the whole of Tasmania. I knew a day would come when I would get stuck on a road trip without enough charge to get home. It did end in a heated argument with my lovely usually patient wife and an unexpected stay in a hotel. The event was caused by my miscalculation, but unlike the US, public charging in the regions is woeful. Furthermore Australian local government councils are stacked with right leaning property developer types that obsficate against curbside AC charging. My mum has a generous home PV system but no off-street parking. I wanted to install a flush with the sidewalk EV charging cable duct with lid (commonly deployed in the UK) from the front corner of her house to the roadside so she could take advantage of her excess solar, but Hobart City Council doesn't legally let you install these! Happy EV ownership does require a bit of technical education, planning and experience. I can fit in my outdoor lifestyle and go camping towing a trailer full of giant double sea kayaks - that's the deal maker. Thanks Ben
As a sparky do you think it would be advantageous to just add charging stations near all sub stations with some form of battery buffer? Too much power from solar near high voltage interconnect? Throw it in those batteries over the fence. Grid demand just spiked? Grab it from the battery over the fence. I'm assuming they'd be a decent spread of these places all over Australia, and it might be good for ancillary services like keeping the frequency of the grid if there's an outage.
Great response mate. We are definitely on the same page but I do have an advantage to you living here in WA. Southern Tassie - the Minnesota of Australia - love it! I have a 13.7kW roof top solar generator with BYD batteries to charge my Atto 3. Love this way of powering my vehicle and would never ever go back to ICE. Thank you for input.
I love hearing how the EV market is dying. No one is buying them and now the manufacturers are going to hybrid. When if you look at the sales reports, EV's are outselling last years numbers each month and each quarter. Some manufacturers have lower overall sales while having higher EV sales....
Yeah that's not right.. Unless you've had several accidents recently that is an insane price to pay. I pay something like $90-pre tax a month for my Model 3's insurance.
I sold my 2021 rav4 hybrid for my 2022 Mach e. I was paying $70 per week in gas and I now pay around $70 per month for charging. I am lucky that I can charge at home for only 11 cents per kwh.
I believe the argument he made about "who wants to charge at 3 am" at the 6:00 mark, was specifically about public chargers. Which you disputed by saying, you just plug when you get home, then it charges itself while you sleep. You are absolutely right, but I don't think it was the correct argument to his concern about the cost of public fast chargers.
I love the "rising electricity costs" narrative....so dumb. It ignores that a) electricity is a regulated industry price wise in a huge amount of state/provincial/federal markets. And b) gasoline/diesel prices are not exactly the epitome of stable and predictable. 23 years ago when I started driving, gas cost like $0.50/L where I live in BC. It's now around $1.75 (up 3.5x) and was over $2 this summer. Which means soon, $2 will be the new benchmark. Meanwhile, electricity costs here used to be about 6.5¢/kwh, and are now about 10-14¢/kwh depending on time of day and amount used per mo. So not only are EVs wildly cheaper to operate now, they're likely only going to continue to get comparatively more cheaper in the future. Zero facts from MGuy
Mguy is in Australia - this shouldn't be a surprise to you, but Australia is a different country to Canada, and some things (beside the climate) are different..... Canada appears to have done nuclear right, and seems yo have plenty of cheap power. Australiia, as usual for us, hasn't done anything right, and our grid is predominantly coal based (so quite dirty), and expensive... Average price of power here is about 25c per kwh, varying with time of day. You can get it much cheaper overnight between 11pm and 6am, free during the day due to excess solar, and much more expensive during evening peak (60c+ per kwh). Commercial fast charging is up around 70c per kwh if you can't charge at home.... I don't like Mguy - I think he's irrationally biased and inaccurate and appears to have an ultraconservative political agenda, but he wasn't wrong about expensive power here....
@@Discoworx yeah, that's what you get for living in Adelaide - SA has ridiculous power prices, but in NSW (and most other states) it's closer to 25c. Hardly anyone lives in Adelaide, so it doesn't really make much difference to averages anyway 😁
@@peeemm2032and look how much re SA has. 100% during the day. somebody needs to tell the renewables crowd that re doesn't actually bring the cost of electricity down.
If you can charge at home if you can. In UK 50% cannot charge at home and electricity is expensive to charge at stations. The problem with solar is that you need to be able to store electricity and this is a problem. Also with vehicles you are not looking at the age of the vehicle.
My thumb rule: If you live in a city, you shouldn't need a car and if you still do, you should have an off-street parking space. It is somewhat like how Japanese cities do, where you have to show your 24-hour access to such a space when registering your vehicle.
MGUY IS NOT MISTAKEN NOR UNINFORMED He is one of many TH-camrs that are deliberately being obtuse, as having a channel hating EV is going to get lots of clicks and therefore income. This is not ignorance, these tubers may well secretly own EVs, it is a deliberate deceitful ploy.
@kidamere2408 Just don't do that on his channel. That just generates more clicks and comments, meaning better video placement, meaning better ad revenue. He wants people to call him out.
Thank you for doing his vid Ben. MGuy is one of the more egregious Anti-EV TH-camrs out there, so I'm glad channels like yours are here to fact check. 🙌
Some charging stations in Sydney are rip-offs. If I were to charge at a non-tesla charger, I could pay over 60c per kwh for 50kw and more for higher. I mostly charge at home.
They provide a service that you can choose whether or not to use. I suspect you are thinking of the price they pay/sell electricity for and ignoring the other costs like capital costs, rent, maintenance etc. Many a charger loses money.
@gpsfinancial6988 Tesla in the same shopping centre is about 20% cheaper at peak times than they are at midnight for off peak rates a d the tesla charger has at least 5 times the charging speed and 4 times as many spaces that said even the tesla charging costs about two times my home rate that doesn't change with time of day. If tesla can make a profit at that rate I think they also could, but they choose to be so expensive that most of the time, few people use them, and then they rarely seem to work properly. I only got a card to use them in case I need to charge at a place with no tesla charger and ended up using it when I got a voucher when they implemented a new system and wished to promote it. Personally I think a better way to go would be to have paid parking with a charger that can charge you car in up to 8 hours, and you pay for the parking and charging in one transaction at reasonable rates for power used and have these at areas next to blocks of flats and or transport hubs. You could have an account that is linked to your car and your rego information so it could be automatic and every time you need charging you just plug in at the car park and by the time you get back from work or leave home your car has been slow charged with the added bonus that should a car go bad it is in a structure designed to contain the problem not that I expect this to happen often.
I live in Australia, just outside of Sydney and can honestly say that I have refused to watch the BS from M Guy or John Cadogan (another Aussie anti EV activist). The first time I have watched M Guy was just now and his sanctimonious attitude with his false narrative is vomit inducing. We drive way more than the average kilometres per year because of living outside of Sydney. My insurance premiums are barely above that of my ICE Hyundai Kona. Australia is very much a separate dwelling dominated urban sprawl landscape, unlike say EV loving China which has massive numbers of apartment dwellers in their cities. Electricity: I do 99% of my charging at home. My overnight EV saver rate at home comes in at $20 Australian dollars a month. But that includes having the spa pool, washing machine, dryer, home heating/cooling and dishwasher on during that time of night. Smart meters only pick time of day. It doesn’t pick what you are using at the time. As for the rare occasions I use a public charger, such as trips out to the country, a $A60-80 petrol stop is replaced by a $A11-23 charge. Just did exactly that last weekend on a trip to the Mudgee wine region. So yeah. from my Aussie perspective, I can honestly say that M Guy is full of BS!
I’m a Sydneysider with a Tesla Model Y and Skoda Kodiaq SUV. My weekly running costs for the Model Y is around about 1/5th of my Skoda. With my electricity plan I pay 8c per KW/h between midnight and 6 am. It is so cheap to charge at home. Insurance through the same Allianz costs roughly double for the Tesla. Not sure why. NSW government and local governments offer a lot of free chargers for people in convenient locations. There is one less than 5 mins walk from my workplace.
He is right regarding insurance cost, and that can be a significant factor for people who do not drive much. Currently I pay less than $70 a month for my Mercedes E350, and that could easily triple for an EV. Of course now there will a flood of posters telling me my cost is higher because I'm a bad driver, too old, or that their EV insurance costs less than their ICE vehicle, etc., etc. But the fact remains, for almost everyone insurance is more expensive for an EV.
Everyone has to work out the numbers based on their situation, but for me: My Chevrolet Bolt does 4 miles/kWh at 10c/kWh, so 2.5c per mile. Gas in Eugene OR is currently $3.10 a gallon. To beat 2.5c per mile efficiency I need to do 125 miles/gallon. No such car exists, best is 70mpg in a Prius Prime (hybrid). Insurance on the Bolt is the same as my old car, a 2007 Mazda 3. Unless people are renting an apartment, most houses have driveways in this city. Yes, I'm usually charging at 3am, and don't need to get up and plug in at that time.
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I am an Australian (Perth, WA) who recently bought an MG4 Excite 51 for AUD $31,700 (USD$21,000). It gets around 350km of range and I use about 12 kWh of battery per day. I use the trickle charger for most of my charging. It costs me 10c per kWh at night which is $1.20. I am currently charging it for free at home on the weekend because I have solar panels and so it costs me very little to charge. I have used a free 7 kWh charger in the gym car park provided by the city council which is cool. I have used a paid charger a couple of times at 45c per kWh. The first time was a top up charge of 10 kWh for $4.80. The second time was charging from 20% to 80% which was 30 kWh and cost $14.90 (USD $10). OPEC knows that their days are numbered. EVs are better. They are cheaper to buy now. Cheaper to run. Have better tech. Just better.
Thank you for sharing
I'd have to stop at public chargers, for three hours of charging every day to go to work and back.
Turns an 8 hr day into an 11 hr day, 5 days a week,'
To go prospecting on the weekend it would be the same.
That charger isn't free, it is being subsidised by all taxpayers.
@@killmozzies how far do you even drive a day that you need to charge for 3 hours? Are there no fast chargers nearby? What car do you drive?
@@pspicerwensley not everyone has solar panels or even a driveway mate. MG are one of the most unreliable Chinese cars available btw
If you get one of those horseless carriages how are you going to fuel it. Your horse can eat grass from anywhere.
It's funny, horses are even less dependent on fixed infrastructure than ICEVs are. Grass grows anywhere, so does the power grid.
Haaaaaaa! NICE!!!
@@rtmpgtOh really…..Winter time there is no feed grass in most of the country, that’s why they have to store it. Embarrassing
@@rtmpgt But the downside with a horse is the fact you can't take it on a motorway or dual carriageway. Nor can you take 3 other people with you..
Grass is only level 1 charging for a horse. If you want faster level 2 horse charging you need oats.
“Electricity prices will go up”
Because of course gas prices will never do that.
Exactly....if electricity prices increase to the point where gas is the better option, then I'd park my EV and get a ICE car. Great thing about that is that EV can chill in the garage plugged in but at a max charge of 50% for battery longevity and can stay that way without much maintenance other than tire rotation.
solar electricity prices will crash and its free if you have solar, rooftop is popular and growing rapidly
And of course, your government will never add a carbon tax on top of the sales tax.
Hint for MGuy: Look at what's happening in Canada.
@@lauchlanguddy1004 Yes, and EV is already a big battery on wheels, it can charge when sun shines. It makes energy like 2X cheaper, because you don't need an intermediary battery.
@@lauchlanguddy1004 It is free when the government pays all the upfront costs, and the Maintenace costs.
Some power companies charge the customer when the customer's solar panels produce more electricity than the company wants! Please talk to a person with solar panels.
Everyone’s situation is different. I had an EV, a used Leaf. I paid very little for a 4 year old car with 34,000 miles. I drove it for 6 years, cost me a set of tires. Nissan put a new main battery under warranty after one year. I charged at night after work for free at the Nissan dealership, topped off overnight on the included charger at home. I sold it for a little over half what I paid for it, as it really didn’t fit my needs any longer. It was a fantastic car, never had any issues with it.
With respect to the depreciation comments that keep coming up, it's not strictly about the loss of value of the vehicle so much as there was INSANE used car price jumps during COVID that prices have now fallen off of. They're comparing against an abnormal set of values and circumstances.
Beyond that, new techonology always starts more highly priced until the manufacturer can gain economies of scale, the slope of supply approaches the slope of demand, and cost-cutting and production improvements drive down prices. Naturally with EV's being new tech, you can buy a newer EV today at a lower price relative to an older EV bought a few years ago. It's that variance in the pricing of the new vehicles that is really driving the precipitous drop in the used market since it would make no sense to buy an older used EV for more than what you would purchase a new one. As the price of new vehicles plateaus, the used market levels into something more normative as well.
Anyone who is an early adopter of new tech just has to accept that unless what you purchased becomes a "collectible", the resale value of that purchase is going to drop until it hits mass market norms. Comparing the change in price of used EV's to the change in price of used gas cars is intellectualy dishonest in the way they're doing it because they're comparing new tech/new product to older established tech/product and trying to maintain that the older tech is better because of the secondary resale price retention. This is already becoming a false equivalency now that we're largely past the covid used car market bubble, and slope of the COGS curve for the new cars is becoming less steep.
Good summary.
Also, new car prices have substantially decreased since the start of Covid, with price drops of $10-20K for various models, ie Tesla. Obviously used cars should not be selling for more than a new car under normal circumstances.
I enjoy these because they come from a position of education not insult, as well as break down the facts and how you got them. Keep up the great work ben.
_"a position of education"_ You seem like a classic example of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
Selling EV Hate is profitable
There are a number of EV lovers selling it here on TH-cam and other platforms, Joe Rogan is one, he loves his Tesla model S
"Selling" anything on youtube is profitable, hence why you can listen to just about any narrative on any topic.
Great video! Makes me happy to see you debunk this GUY. His niche is all about appealing to EV haters in order to generate clicks, views, and likes. It is sad when someone uses lies and deception instead of providing honest and truthful information.
In the middle of the day Australias national grid is now hitting over 75% solar, and prices during these times are dirt cheap.
He's just another Gordon Johnson, or Scotty Kilmer, he can lie adamantly. Probably helps being a lawyer.
lol here in Australia with a 10% discount on BEV insurance and rooftop solar for charging. How can I make ends meet ?
This mguy is full on cringe
I talk to people in insurance - guess who is paying for the 10% discount.
When 50% of the cars are EV, guess what will happen to EV electric charges, they will more than double - someone has to pay for road Maintenace. At the moment it is the ICE users, not the EVs. NOT a single politician did any maths, and the greenies have stopped talking about the money issues.
When EVs are all getting their free energy from their roof tops, the government will charge a road usage tax on them.
@@mddell24 Australia imports about $50 billion worth of gasoline pa.
When people get EVs more and more of that money will stay in the country instead of heading overseas. That will be good for the economy and our health.
It's all swings and roundabouts.
@@mddell24 You "talk to people in insurance". No worries. 😂
EV drivers should pay their fare share of road costs. I am an EV driver and more than willing to pay my fair share!
But on the flip side, have you ever considered broadening your perspective? EVs actually have the ability to save the government money, for example on health system costs. You would I trust, know that tail pipe pollution is responsible for a significant level of respiratory illness in the community, also potentially assosciated with early mortality. Imagine if that problem could at least be reduced if not bought to an end eventually.
It's short sighted to fail to gather a big picture perspective on the pros and cons of any product, maybe even mischievous at times.
@@mddell24 So what???
Has the government starting controlling your panels/inverter yet don't worry will happen soon
I pay $1,200 per year for my full coverage insurance for my 2024 Tesla model 3 LR AWD. I had owned a 2017 Toyota 4Runner I paid exactly the same amount. My wife’s 2018 Camry LE is $900 per year. I don’t understand why people complain about the rate. I think the most important is how old are you and what is your driving history.
Yep, I went from a Corolla Hybrid to a MY. Insurance is about 200 bucks per year more for the Y. Hardly anything to bat an eye over
Payout price also (>$, cost >$)
1200 a year for one car . They saw you coming for sure. Outrageous
1200 a year is outrageous for one car. Your getting robbed or your driving record is terrible.
@@bobbybishop5662$1200 a year is good. You do understand this is AUD $ right?
Another informative video. Keep them coming.
We live in western Sydney. (Penrith)
We own a Tesla and a BYD Atto 3.
We do 500km+ per Week ie: Work - Penrith to Botany etc every day.
We automatically charge both cars over night
We run a 5 bed room air conditioned house (anyone living in Penrith knows why you need air con)
.
Our power bill is $120 per month. (about $30 per week to run the house and both cars - ROOF TOP SOLAR!)
.
We drive to Jervis Bay once a month ... we stop and charge at a Tesla super charger ... the trip costs $15.
.
Prior to moving to EVs we were spending $120 per week per car.
.
Thats approx $240 per week ... thats over $50,000 on petrol alone over 5 years. (more than the Atto 3 which has a 7 year warranty)
.
If you live in western Sydney and compute to work get an EV.
.
We were also spending $8000+ a year on tolls (FK Trans Urban)
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The new NSW $60 per week toll cap is also a blessing.
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Just the facts on the ground in Western Sydney ... GET AN EV.
@@judithgopnik9744 mate how is your electricity so cheap. It’s $800 a quarter for me in Fairfield. 4 person house hold, 3kw solar, never run ac, ensure appliances are used during solar generation etc.
@@littlejohn-pi7kk We use OVO - El Cheapo over night rates.
@@littlejohn-pi7kk We use OVO - El Cheapo over night rates
Yes an excellent real life example. I live in Gosford work in Mascot. It is 108km one way. If I charge overnight the cost is $3.65. My wife’s GM Holden would cost about $18.00 for the same trip. Truly staggering savings!
@@littlejohn-pi7kk 3kw rooftop solar is very small. The average is now close to 10kw.
Hi Ben. Love your work, and I also recommended MGUY to your webpage. As an Australian, I can attest that many EV owners are on EV specific power plans. With mine (Ovo) I get 8c a kW overnight - I can fully charge my 51kW MG4 for $4.08. Due to excess solar I get free energy from the grid btn 11am - 2pm. I can charge my EV for free. It would be rare that someone is solely charging on a Tesla supercharger - and you routinely see Tesla's on the non-Tesla chargers - often at 50c a kW. Australian EV ownership is a dream.
As usual MGUY is full of it.
You do realise that if you're charging overnight in Australia on cheap off peak power, you're running your EV on 70% to 80% coal, and it's not really any cleaner than an ICE.....don't you?
@@peeemm2032 Are you complaining that someone is using Aussie coal instead of Middle Eastern oil?
Where’s your patriotism??????
Besides, coal turbines take days to start up and shut down. They are forced to keep running when demand is very low so they still pollute whether someone buys that energy or not.
As for EVs being cleaner than ICE? Numerous studies emphatically say YES! Even when powering up on coal.
@@peeemm2032it depends on where you live. There is a website that shows where load is being supplied by accessing the National Energy Market. It updates every 15 minutes or so.
The National Grid in Australia, which also monitors metering and supply management, has a website and chart to show the NEM Supply, the Market availability for each State, based on the suppliers for each MW of power being supplied to the grid. If you charge during the day, 30-90% of NEM load will be solar, not just home solar supply. Overnight, Gas, Wind, Coal are mixed in each state past midnight to roughly 6AM
@@peeemm2032coal fired power stations are still way more efficient per unit of energy over even the most frugal of hybrids. Moot point.
@@lesmajoros333 Much of that middle eastern oil actually comes from Russia. It is transshipped in UAE to hide its origin, then refined in Singapore, further muddying its provenance. So ICE drivers in Australia are supporting Putin's genocide in Ukraine.
What dawned on me recently was that the many governments choosing to invest in sustainable energy technology, while perceived to be costly, is one of the few or only examples of our politicians being forward looking and fiscally responsible. The long-term effects of these policies will save everyone money and reduce costs in so many ways. Most of them in healthcare, which will just happen because we're breathing air with less pm 2.5 particles.
So, who really cares if it's being forced in some cases. We usually have to scream from the rooftops for better spending habits and they never are realized.
Now we just need politicians and scientists to stop spending money on expensive carbon capture tech and use the low-tech method. Plant more trees with that money. Let the trees balance the C02, because they are good at it and won't reduce C02 too much and cause the opposite issue, a global ice age.
And reduce dependence on dodgy regimes for our energy supplies.
@@marquisdemoo1792 💯
Here in Oregon we have a big timber industry and grow lots of trees, and of course the carbon is locked up in the timber, so unless that gets burnt we're good! We also generate most of our electricity with hydroelectric.
@@ziploc2000 Yep, most important part is to lock it up in a cycle. What we do today is pull if form deep under ground so we are adding C02 to the currently normal cycle. So we need to make sure there's enough trees to support the full cycle.
Trees also attract more rain as well win win
In my experience over the past several years, it seems like 99% of people who hate EVs have literally never even ridden in one. I have personally had a hater ride in my Model3 and they were astonished and by the end of the ride they wanted to buy one. These haters are just uninformed and primed with FUD, so it's great that you are doing what you can do debunk stuff like this.
Most people that hate high performance motorcycles have never ridden one. Do you have a point here???
@@robertgreen9614 Thanks for reiterating my point, which was that many haters have not experienced or even know actual details of the thing they hate.
@@BlazerRox It's not a matter of reiterating your point. Your "point" is only relying on one aspect of the vehicle, it's performance. I bought my first V8 car after going for a ride in my brother's first V8 car, so I'm still not sure why you think your EV is special because "someone wanted one after going for a ride in it"? The video "apparently" addressed many elements around EVs that certain people consider to be FUD.
The presenter is quick to use the term "cherry picking" yet did cherry picking himself.
I note he didn't "debunk" Mguy's video on State Farm removing EV chargers from all their business premises due to fire risk? If the USA's largest motor vehicle insurer is saying the chances of an EV on charge going up in smoke, is too high a risk to be adequately mitigated at this point in time????
Yet they aren't banning all those ICE cars off the premises, that according to the FUD spreading EV fan boys, "are up to a 100 times higher fire risk"?
The insurance company is in possession of all the fire data, and made their decision based on such. I won't hold my breath waiting for some EV internet "expert" to try an effectively debunk that one, they'll just ignore State Farm's decision, as it flies in the face of their confirmation bias.
My biggest complaint about bikes is how fucking loud they are… loud pipes don’t save lives, they deafen people.
As an EV owner in Australia I can attest to the fact we have morons here too.
There are morons everywhere, its not just an Australian thing.
Skynews😂
Damn, I thought it was just an American thing 😢
@@BenSullinsOfficial 99% american thing
Shame isn't it but completely true.
Actually have to agree that charging _at a public charger_ is expensive and the machines are flaky. But thats in the US, cant address Australia.
Well it depends on the charger and the network, really. I find the WA EV Network chargers to be super reliable, as they use mostly Kempower units. The Tritium-powered Evie and BP Pulse networks and the ABB Chargefox chargers also tend to be pretty good. Tesla's is as reliable here as it is worldwide.
MGUY's Bio: "Brit in Australia with a 2014 Porsche 981 Boxster and a 1971 MG Midget!" Yes, we define people by their cars.
He gives me the shtz. He asserted that a house fire in NZ a year ago was caused by an EV being charged. I told him on YT that NZ Fire & Emergency said that the fire began at the rear of the house, far from the garage where the EV was parked (and not actually being charged.) He never retracted it. For a "lawyer and engineer" he's not too sharp or honest. How much is he being paid by the ICE makers and Oilers?
Probably had to leave the UK before he was disbarred
Sadly spreading bs does pay well on it's own.
You're surprised that a dishonest lawyer is out there? If you're not in the US come on over and get a load of the Turmp and Republican lawyers many of them who become politicians.
There are several videos from bystanders clearly showing the EV on fire in the garage burning before the rest of the house caught fire. Several New Zealand journalists also stated that they were not allowed to report any negatives about EV's and Government employees were also told the same thing. That government recently lost the election!
Probably about the same you're being paid by Musk.
Man this channel is hands down my new favorite channel on youtube.
When I traded my ATS-V in on a Lyriq my insurance went up $2 for six months.
95% of the time I charge in my garage, which is much cheaper than gas. Only the rare dc fast charging has rates similar to gas around me. Even though my Lyriq is big, heavy, awd, with 500hp, it is much cheaper to drive than my old ATS-V.
I have two teslas just sold my old 21 m3p and added my new 24 m3p and my insurance went DOWN $500 a year! yea I think the insurance companies are learning. My Model 3 never added enough to my electric bill to notice a difference , cant wait to see how much the new CT will add to it. I guarantee it will be way way less than the $1200 a month in fuel I was spending on gas in my old truck.
We came across a guy like this at a motel in Australia. Wouldn't leave us alone and did his best to wreck our time away.
Called reception and explained. Happened to be the owner. Guy and wife kicked out and banned from returning!
Was it actually Simple Simon?
Don’t forget that Hertz dumped a massive number of Teslas in the used EV market. Depreciation is a clownish stat because there are many factors that affect the current market value of a vehicle’s trade in or sale.
Yeah, and the ICE parrots / bots did a pretty good job installing FUDs in the mind of many consumers... But anyway, they're just trying to push as much as they can the inevitable. Majority of those ICE companies are going down the drain, just hope they'll wake up before they go bankrupt, we need competition.
Probably one of the sillier statements that I have seen really.
Depreciation is a very real thing if you're buying or selling a vehicle imo and a big part of the total cost of ownership.
EV depreciation is a big issue in many places and Hertz dumping EVs in the US has nothing to do with it.
@@oldbloke204 This depreciation stuff is directly related by false beliefs and lies spread by ICE companies that want to have more time trying to catch up! It'll eventually stabilise into the real value. For the time being, i don't care, i lease!
and Hertz is not one of them, All ev manufacturers seem to be reducing their prices quite a lot recently, and as a result used vehicles are now more affordable. This is the biggest disruption in the auto industry since the model T. Ev tech is advancing so quickly and component prices are falling in response, also solar, wind, and battery storage are all adding to the mix. In just a few years evs will be cheaper to buy and cheaper to run, more convenient, and go as far as any gas car ---- watch this space.
@@TerryHickey-xt4mf This distance stuff is a bit strange when we know ~90% of trips fall under 60KM. Add to that, stopping for 20-30 min every, say, 350KM is quite normal.
In my personal experience, the whole depreciation thing is a myth. I bought my EV new 6 months ago. I just checked on the car buying sites out of curiosity and got offers from $600 to $1000 more than I paid. Maybe the market in here Colorado is atypical.
Anti-EV people really must like cherries, as they pick them so much.
Yep, he claims to be an attorney, if so he's trained to lie. Nothing is by mistake, imo!
The rabid pro-EV crowd does the same.
Most people want an EV, but they just cost too much (more than ICE).
It's the drunken dude's brand, MGUY, he can't change his tune if he wanted to. Children's channel anyway.
Anti EV people is basically everyone except the BEV fanboys....
Lol - Sydney is not like New York. Only about 4% of the over 5 million population live in the actual Sydney precinct. And even a lot of those would have underground or off street parking. Sydney is a huge sprawling city bordered by the Blue Mountains in the west, the Hawkesbury River in the north and the Royal National Park and the Hacking river in the south (the Tasman sea to the east). There's a reason 90% of people in Australia charge at home. Because most of them have garages, driveways or dedicated parking spots. MGuy is a total shill, probably paid for by Shell or BP out of their "influencer budget".
Yes this is how Sydney is.
As an Australian living in Sydney i must apologies for this BS from a fellow Sydney sider. I have had an EV (Volvo XC40 recharge Twin) and had cost me less the a $200 (AUD) in electric to travel of 15000km. I have a vey good electricity plan and a 12.4kw solar system with 10kwh battery. I pay very little for electricity (including the car) and still produce more electricity than I use (over a 12 month period) The insurance cost is about the same as my previous car which cost about 1/2 as much as the Volvo. I have save hours not needing to go and stand at a petrol pump. This guy has clearly never driven a EV or know how to do any sort of basic research.
Obviously omitting the costs of the solar system and battery... Shallow comparison.
@@maxhugen solar has already paid for it self (took about 3 years) battery has been in for 2 years and will take longer but also covers us for blackouts so os a form of insurance.
So just for some real world data we charge during the day one day a week on a sunny day our 6.3kw solar array generates enough energy to give us another weeks range of normal driving like dropping the kids to school and shopping runs and getting to work and back and honestly thats mostly what anyone is gonna do with a car . 30kwh gets us about 250km and since our solar panels have covered their own cost it is exactly $0 to charge the car .
Solar and wind is going gangbusters both with household and commercial. Coal stations are running at losses and closing early. When we build enough batteries it will be a no brainer.. Just about any above minor bingle on ICE cars gets them written off. The price of solar is crashing and by using home batteries and solar hot water, you are laughing.
Oil industry financed I bet too. Its liek the tobacco industry - full of lies.
I have replied to some of MGUY's videos and pointed out the Lies with facts. No one ever replies
He relies on his cult like viewership to reply.
Sure, he has nothing to say and no real data to back his false claims so silence is the only option for him... Another of those mediocre parrots...
His followers are the worst.
@@jasonhutcheon5991 Nah that title goes to an Australian EV shill imo,
@@TroySavarylol you think the EV fanboys on here are impartial?
Thanks for the debunking, as always.
It’s really incredible how dishonest that the anti-EV propaganda is
Strange cos I think exactly the same about the EV propaganda tbh.
@@oldbloke204 there exists dishonest propaganda about everything that becomes political
it reminds me of when I was a kid, you had to be a 'mod' or a 'rocker' no in between. When all this eventually blows over, what will be the next love/hate topic ? Anyway it makes a lot of money for all TH-cam channels, and provides me with endless amusement. I own an ev, so I am already lost to the anti ev cause. My neighbor asked me just last week, I see your car has not exploded yet! and sounded quite genuine. I told him my car has LFP batteries, but he just glazed over, nice guy though and a good friend, live and let live.
@@TerryHickey-xt4mf Just joke about it with them... "yeah mate i change batteries in this thing like how you change AAs in a kid's RC toy mate. Costs me an arm and a leg mate", and do so with a big old smile on your face.
Sticking with the Aussie anti EV folks, i recommend John Cadogan - Auto Expert. He used to be informative, but has since leaned into the hate and i had to stop watching.
I’ve tried finding a good one of his but they’re all 90% his feelings or made up stats
@@BenSullinsOfficial Side note.... I defiantly would consider getting a Vinfast VF3 if they come to the UK... 220km range rwd low power 40hp(I recon a 100hp tune or motor upgrade is possible) so low insurance....
@@BenSullinsOfficial Yeah, and he loves playing with numbers like Median VS Average (Elon Musk walks into a room, everyone becomes a millionaire on AVERAGE - while the MEDIAN barely twitches ).
He actually likes EV's but his followers don't.
He lost me as a subscriber a year or so ago when he played obvious mental twister to prove EV's were more polluting than ICE.
That’s the 4 foot bloke who calls everyone dude?, dude😎
Yeah I use to like his channel but it’s gone a bit nutty lately. Guess he’s found an audience that gives him the clicks.
Electricity prices going up simply improves the ROI for my PV array. My Tesla charges itself, while I sleep, with the free juice. I waste zero time nor money at filling stations. YMMV...😎
🌅BEST long-term investment that works for us daily🌞 increases in value & pays for itself ...While we use it🐢🗽
I talk to people who own an EV to learn about electric vehicles. I don’t go to TH-cam sites for facts. I actually placed my order for an Aptera over a year ago, now patiently waiting.
You will be waiting a long time, considering Aptera is a scam.
@@humnpwr ah, the aptera… like nuclear fusion, always a few years away, but it will be amazing when it arrives!!!
I do actually think they’re great, btw
Give me a break, that ZeroTera has been coming out for the past 20 years!
@@akennedystocks it’s an ev now covered in solar cells. Doesn’t cost me anything to reserve so I’m patiently waiting for my delivery date.
@@humnpwr I am well aware of it. I reserved it 16 years ago and got my reservation back.
ALSO! It is NOT a car. It is considered a three wheel motorcycle.
I bought my first EV in August 2021 here in Western Australia , it has cost a pittance (29c/kwh) to charge and uses about 50/wh per km on average.
In February this year someone bumped into the back of the Livewire at a stop sign , it took. 6 months for Harley Davidson t sort the parts needed . I had to resort to using my ICE car (A Ls1 Powered VY One toner Ute) that gets about 13/L 100km and was costing me over $100 AUD a week.
In April this year I bought a 2019 SR+ Model 3.
Up until the Model 3 purchace my benchmark car was a Holden 1971 LC GTR Torana (still have it) . every car I had driven since the GTR just felt underwhelming until I bought the Model 3. It works , is affordable to own and just gets on with the job of transporting me to work or to see friends , and although it's not performance Model 3 fast , is still a fast car.
Georgia insurance is pretty high, and had I gone from my VW GTI to a Tesla MY, my insurance would have tripled. However other cars were more reasonable. I ended up in a Volvo XC40 and my insurance went up on a basically new car by $15/month.
Going EV was a financial decision for me, but so glad I did, and now I don't think I'll ever go back to full ICE. However, most of my good feelings came in after getting my home charging set up and moving from level 1 to level 2 (240v). Now I don't rely on public charging and instead use them for convenience if by a location I'll be at for a bit, or if necessary, as on a road trip.
Range isn't so much of an issue as I look at it as I do the battery in my cell. I charge it when I need to and when I won't be using it for awhile. I've only once sort of panicked during a road trip and it was because I hadn't scoped the area out with plug share.
Here in France, 2 year old Citroen Amis are selling for more than their original purchase price, in spite of the fact that they are possibly one of the least practical EVs on the market.
The other thing is notice how a Brit accent makes it sound so authoritative, my good man. He does not sound like an Aussie.
He is a retired British lawyer living in Australia.
@@TroySavary retired? or disgraced?
@@gpsfinancial6988 shrug?
@@gpsfinancial6988 Tut tut, my good man, are you casting aspersions upon our new chum, the Pommy Bastard?
@@gpsfinancial6988retired
I think he might have a point with on street parking.
I've read some news about some cities in Australia giving a hard time to some folks trying to charge their cars at home not having off street parking.
Don't recall exactly where though, but losing out on home charging is definitely a hit to an EV advantage. Still better in a lot of ways than ICE, but still a big hit.
Also, even my PHEV has charge scheduling...so my car can charge ITSELF when I tell it to without doing anything more than...plugging it in when I park it and setting the schedule.
We don't have ToD pricing here, so a non-issue at the moment but an option if/when they do.
A big majority of Australians live in separate homes (bungalows) in the suburbs. The really old parts of Sydney with terraced houses and no off street parking are very expensive and inner city. If you can afford to live there, you can afford to pay for fast charging.
I am paying $75 a month for full coverage on my 2021 tesla model y through Tesla insurance in Ohio, and in 11 months and 15,200 miles I have paid a total of $212 to charge.
you do a great job.
I have an Ioniq 5 SEL Dual Motor. It has almost $20k miles on it. We own a home with solar and have a level 2 charger in the garage. My partner also has an EV, VW ID.4, and we get enough solar to power our house and power both EVs annually. When all is said and done, we make about $50 from the utility company on the electricity we contribute to the grid. And the shocker! We live in MINNESOTA!
In the winter, especially when the solar panels are covered with snow, we pay our monthly electric bill almost in full. Almost because we still get some solar energy through the snow. Between Spring, Summer, and Fall we get more than enough energy to overcome what we pay out over the winter. Basically we get paid by the utility company in the summer and pay out in the winter. When all is said and done, we make about $50.
So in reality, we charge for free! When I go on road trips I pay for fast charging. I calculated how much that costs compared to a gas powered car and figured out that I pay about the same on a road trip as I would if I was driving a car that got 25 MPG. Being that my car is a crossover SUV, that's not bad at all.
The other great thing about this is that the cost of our solar panels is close to even only after about 4.5 years when all the savings are added up. Heck, that's also absorbed the additional cost I paid for my car over what a comparable ICE vehicle costs. Although comparable is hard to find because any ICE vehicle crossover SUV that does 0 - 60 in 4.4 seconds costs close to if not over $100k. So it's hard to compare my car to ICE vehicles because my car drives way better.
Oh, and on the environmental front, due to my car mostly being driven from solar, it's already overcome the initial higher CO2 impact over an ICE vehicle during manufacturing. So it is truly a zero emission vehicle now!
Did I buy the car to save money? Nope. I bought it because I care about the environment and well....of all the vehicles I have owned over the last 38 or so years, it's the best driving car ever! It took one test drive and I was blown away at how awesome it is!!!
Wash the snow off, I live NSW and yes it does snow here.
@@paulc6766 Yeah, the roof is pretty high up so I am not sure how I can do that.
Thank you for your service Ben! Keep it up. 👍
19:44 in Australia you can have free electricity from 10 am to 1 pm with time of use plan.
Not with AGL.
Brit in Australia, NOT Australian.
MGUY is most certainly Australian if he holds Australian citizenship, which he probably does.
A British citizen is considered a foreigner in Australia and cannot live and work in Australia indefinitely. Does his house look like a rental to you?
Also, where I live, the apartment owners cannot deny you access to you charging your car, provided it doesn't block access for anyone. So I just run my charge cable out my kitchen window and across the sidewalk, lol. I use a bit of weather stripping for the would-be gap in the window from the cord. I even set my cord on the windowsill, so when I back in I just open my window and there's the charge cable.
We have an M3P, it is now 4.5 years old. We have 5kW solar on the roof and electric hot water. The only time we pay for charging is on road trips. Our typical power bill is $10.
Hell some of us live in apartments and have solar. I've got a similarly sized solar setup and live in a low-rise apartment complex. Love not having to pay for power!
Great work! FUD is in overdrive.
MGUY is a Deceiver, imo
My cybertruck costs nearly half as much to ensure versus my old dodd ram. And get this, when I added the ram to the policy, it dropped my rates by another $120 . 🤯
Ben… kudos on being so polite.
Here in Australia, we’d just describe this bloke a lying sack of…. Well, you can probably guess. Thanks for doing the work on this.
MGUY won't respond to this video, I stopped watching him quite a while ago as I got tired of his negativity. Yes, I own an EV (EV6) it's by far the best car I've ever owned. I do have an off grid system so all of my charging is from daylight. I haven't paid one cent for fuel in the last two years. Never been to a DCFC. Insurance slightly higher than previous car, registration actually a bit cheaper. No battery degradation, I'm getting more than the stated range. Great video Ben, MGUY need to pull his head in a bit !!!
So, this guy is the Australian Scotty Kilmer?
He doesn't laugh like a horse or dies every other week.
I think Scotty is just a fuel car lover, but Mguy is really an EV hater.
He's also not a somewhat experienced Mechanic, like Scotty is. Back before he went on his anti-EV tirades he was kind of a good place to get somewhat okay advice on cars... Now the dude's literally off his rocker and thinks anything other than a '94 Celica is an unreliable shitbox.
In my experience it's not that much different in money from at the pump to charging at stations. I saw a Chevy Bolt charge 180 range for around 24 dollars. My Mazda 6 gets 180 range for about 18 dollars at 3 dollars a gallon. That's close to same for me. But I don't sit there for an hour. I'm in NJ BTW.
And like many EV owners have said, and some of Ben's videos have pointed out, you don't have to sit and wait for your car to charge overnight. Yes, it's different at a public charger, but the vast majority of people aren't using them on a daily basis either outside of a road trip. Electricity prices aren't nearly as volatile as gas prices are, where it can jump up 20 cents that same day if someone sneezes in the Middle East.
I pay $40-60 a month to drive my Model Y about 1000 miles/1600 km a month going to work and back, and weekly shopping trips. I also love not having to visit gas stations every week, and pumping fuel in blizzards, sweltering and sticky heat waves, or during torrential downpours. And safely preheating/cooling the cabin in the garage on really cold/hot days.
Sure, EV's won't work for everyone. But they could work for a lot of people if there wasn't so much anti-EV FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt) out there claiming how EV's are bad.
I have a BYD Atto3 and have never, let me repeat that, NEVER charged at a Tesla supercharger. I use public charging stations ALL THE TIME for several reasons, but in general, never charged at a higher rate than 68c per kw/h. My car will do 400km in one single charge and i pay roughly 30$ for every full charge (which you never do anyways because you world never let go down to 0%). Anti EV haters will go to very long lengths to lie about EVs and i honestly struggle to understand what they are so afraid of.
As a Tesla owner? I think the Atto 3 is a solid car. Incredible value for the price and one of the best batteries on the market (so much so that in some markets BYD Cells make their way into Base Teslas, oddly enough)
4:29 Even in Jakarta, a city with 32 million people. And land as dense as Manhattan. Wuling mini ev has a small battery and even the charger uses 3.2kWh .From home is not a problem Using 30 meters of cable is not a problem.
I mean it’s Indonesia… south East Asian electrical work is a meme and a half, but hey! It works!
(Dw we do the same thing in apartments here in Australia)
My insurance costs are pretty reasonable for my Model Y. Also pretty sweet to pay 3¢ kwhr in New Mexico at night with the new off peak EV meter rate. Only regret was I bought before the used market matured.
If somebody is selling one year old Ioniq 5 for half the price I'll buy it without hesitation.
I know about this Mguy but his content is not something I would digest easily. I invested some money in my home with 16kWp solar, heat pump and two USED EVs. My monthly electricity bill is now 10.92€ and includes heating/cooling my home, charging two cars and all other electricity. There is no Xguy that can tell me that that's bad.
He is being paid to say all the negatives about EV’s !
Does this guy's income from his pro EV rhetoric all go to charity does it?
Ben, I rent without the benefit of solar in country NSW, Australia. My energy provider has a scheme where they schedule the charging during low grid demand periods. Because of this I just come home, plug in and walk away. My Au Telsa then charges for $0.088/ kWh almost free anyway. Also, because I charge at home although it takes longer to fast charge when I “have to”, I find I now nearly never spend any time fuelling my Tesla!
As you’d expect!🎉
Hi there . An Australian here . Home OWNERSHIP is becoming a thing of the past here in the Major Cities . Most people are Renters .
Therefore , No authority to install Charging Stations on the Property . Also , the Lithium Batteries are NOT currently safe . Chemical Instability issues .
Being an American , you should probably speak to your OWN circumstances , Buddy .
Define 'safe'.
@@Luka_3D . Let's go with - - - -
" Don't Spontaneously Conflagrate " .
And a Lithium Battery , when it goes , will Burn Under Water .
Un-Extinguishable . Will that do ?
@@johncunningham4820 By your own definition, a gas car isn't safe. And no, lithium battery fires will not burn under water. They don't reach a high enough temperature, which is why firefighters put them out with water.
@@Luka_3D. The Batteries HAVE OXYGEN in their Chemical Make-Up .
All water Spraying does in provide Boundary Cooling in the hope that the Fire doesn't spread .
And the Fire involved is Extremely Hot .
BTW , Lithium is one of those Metals in the same Periodic Table section as , Calcium , Sodium and Magnesium .
Look it up . And read up on the properties of THOSE Metals .
Then come back and shoot your mouth off some more .
@@Luka_3D . Lithium fires don't burn under water you say .
Clearly you know nothing of Chemistry .
Lithium , Beryllium , Calcium , Potassium , Sodium and Magnesium are a group of Metals that turn up in a tight group , Top Left of the Periodic Table of the Elements . They all have some Common properties but different Atomic weights .
One of those Common Properties is - - they ALL react , spontaneously with water .
Sodium and Potassium in a particularly VIOLENT way .
The Fires from these various Elements can be " Surface of the Sun " HOT .
Gasoline / Petrol VAPOURS are what can be really dangerous , for the Terminally Stupid . And Diesel Fuel is positively LOW risk .
I have to assume you are a Green-washing " Eco Warrior " , Yes ?
EV charging really isn't particularly " Green " you realise , what with the sheer NUMBERS of Coal and Gas fired Power Stations out there , now having to run at Higher Output .
Try finding petrol on your roof, im in between solar panel systems at the moment but ive always paid nothing for my ev fuel.
Go with Enphase for your next install! Super efficient and multi-way redundant too.
I bought a used model 3 precisely because of the depreciation that brought it under 25k
In Australia a low-value trade-in, the government incentives and Tesla's recent offering to provide Novated Leaseholders $3,000 cashback effectively pushes the cost of a Model 3 down to A$53,000, which works out to be around $25-27,000 US.
Depreciation?
My Model 3 Performance has indeed lost around 55% of it’s value.
Minor detail, that’s over a period of five years!
Meanwhile, our Grand Cherokee diesel has lost even more!
2 EV household. Would never consider one without home charging. I agree on that point.
I have one, charge at work and public chargers. No problem at all.
It depends, I have a Model Y since 2021, and I cannot charge at home, but there are on almost every street corner parking lot an AC charging pole with 2 plugs where I can charge my car over night.. Not as cheap as charging at home using solar panels, but still a lot cheaper than pumping gas.. Because there are so many charge poles here, it is just as comvenient as charging at home... Fill up your car while you sleep.
In my city of 60.000 people there are about 400 charging poles installed at public parking lots scattered throughout the city, with each 2 plugs.. That is even more as in that 20 times bigger city Sydney... and this number will double the coming 2-3 years! It also shows in the increasing number of EV's.. More and more people decide to buy an EV, instead of a gas car.. from my personal observations, my guess is that around 10% of all cars driving around in my city are now electric, and that number is increasing fast!
Since we got free chargers at work, and a salary sacrifice scheme, loads of people have switched to EVs.
@robinbennett5994 and who pays for the free charging? Somebody foots the bill....
@@ttkddry He does and I assume anyone that buys an EV at his company. He sacrifices part of his salary for it. He said it right in the comment.
Our state in Australia has electricity prices capped the other states are not capped. Need to really shop around for Insurance lowest I've seen is $829 per year. So easy to charge with standard house hold plug.
I love the FUD buster direction of your channel. Thank you for calling out all this misinformation. This helps us pro-EV folks fight the good fight. Keep it up! #datadoesnotcareaboutyourfeelings
Yes and so necessary but I think we are winning now.
Even in compact city state I live in, we have many EV chargers all within walking distance from our apartment blocks, despite the fact that majority of us do not even drive let alone own private transportation. The funny thing is, our public buses are still diesel powered.
EV rapidly depreciate ? Not rapid enough where I live even if I am in my "right mind" to buy and own one 😅
Singapore? Yeah they’ve got tons of charging options there, they’ve also got the MRT as well, which is fully electric
Dohhh, most Australians have stand alone houses or units with a garage. Does he live in Australia
I, and about a solid 30% of all Australians live in Strata (multiple dwelling) accomodations. Out of those about two thirds of strata dwellings are Green Title units, so only about 10% or so of aussies live in apartments. The charging network in cities is more than capable of handling all those people.
I think Mguy is the one I saw do a video on an EV he owned and had a nightmare roadtrip with. He was doing everything wrong and bashing the car and the way EV charging works. I could be wrong and clearly there is room for at least two of these clueless guys out there.
Great video Ben.
Unfortunately there are plenty of other "MGuys" in Australia. At work, at the shops, at family gatherings, etc. Automatic eye rolling becomes a thing
I bet the same thing played out when the horse and wagon were replaced by the Model T and it happened quickly.
They are raging against change, but in 5 years they will change and accept the new reality.
@@Rabs73 : so true.
For laughs, sometimes I end up telling them what want to they hear.
That the car burnt down our house for the third time this year.
That I’m on my 5th battery because they often wear out within a month.
That I can’t drive further than to the shops because of range anxiety.
That I spend $1 million a year on electricity fuelling it up.
That the radiation from the battery gives everybody headaches and has made me sterile.
Then I say: “well, that’s the FOX News version. Do you want to hear the truth?”
I just say “well, I’ve owned both and will never buy another gas car again.”
@@lesmajoros333 love it. Good strategy!
@@lesmajoros333 Fun.
He’s right on one point though: if you do choose to run your EV exclusively from DC fast chargers, it costs the same as gasoline. I did the calculation for my Rivian in San Diego on Electrify America about a year ago, and it came out the same cost per mile as a truck that does 17mpg. Best charge at home, folks.
Ben, the flaw in your opening is that even if "most" people charge at home.... most people don't have a home where they can charge a car so as/if more EVs are forced upon us most people will not be charging at home.... AND .... EVs actually have 80% more problems then petrol cars as the statistics now show. You need to argue on the facts not the promise.
His statement was more based on the fact that most current ev owners own a home where they can charge overnight.
I'd like to expand a bit on who can charge an ev at home though. Most people could charge at home if we got around the red tape issues. We have electricity on most roads where people live and in most homes. How much of a stretch is it to fit a 10 amp plug to where someone parks?
86% of people isn’t “most”?
@@BenSullinsOfficial it's simple maths ... 86% of the current EV owners live with off-street parking.... but if/when EVs are forced on all of us the percentage of people who have off-street parking will be the same as it is now... and if you live in a city that's not many.
@@Luka_3D the problem is if you only have on-street parking there are major safety concerns and costs. You can't run a cable from your house out to the street and you can't put in a road-side charger because you will be lucky if you ever get that same spot again.
@@RoverIAC I've actually had a presentation about this recently in showing to my local utility company that said safety concerns were overblown for the amount of power that most people need for their daily needs. They were under the assumption that every ev needs to have access to 20 kw of power meanwhile the reality is that most people can make do with 2 kw.
That amount of power can be safely transmitted over existing wiring that powers public streetlights if the lights were designed for older sodium bulbs and were upgraded to leds.
Thank you for another great video Ben! I live in Australia and drive my model Y twenty thousand kilometres a year almost completely for free from the solar on my roof :)
🙋♂️THANKS BEN FOR FIGHTING THE FUD 🧐🔋🔋🔋
I am paying A$890.00 for my 2019 Tesla M3P with an agreed valve and high excess. It's cheapest I have ever paid so far. Haven't had a "service" for 3 years (wiper blades and cabin filter only). Huge savings charging of my own solar and Powerwall.
There are electricity plans in Australia for owners with no solar to charge for 8c/kWhr overnight.
I am Australian and drive an EV for the the last 3 years. This MGUY is nuts and probably works for the fossil fuel companies. I have solar and charge from home 100% of the time and my electricity account is in credit. Car insurance is comparable to a fossil vehicles. On a recent 6 week trip up north we covered 7000km and had no issues finding chargers, we mostly used destination chargers at places we stayed which were all free.
The small amount of increased insurance I pay to have an EV is less than what one tank of gas costs.
My insurance increased about $25 more a month when I break it down. The last tank of gas I ever filled, it was awhile ago because I no longer own a gas powered vehicle, was around $55.
Hi Ben
Thank you for the debunking!
I'm an Australian electrician and lease a BYD Atto 3. I'm an educated EV advocate, with a deep understanding of the pros & cons of EV ownership, and have been involved in numerous proposed commercial EV charging station preliminary investigations (does a site have availabile capacity based on supply cables and historical load analytics etc).
Currently EV ownership in Australia for home owners with a driveway is a no brainer. If you add in a solar PV system the equation only get substantially more pro EV.
In my case I have a 10kW PV system, and even though I live in southern Tasmania (kind of the Minnesota of Australia), including running the house and doing 99% of my vehicles charging, I only pay AUD$250 for power a year, which comes in the winter monthly bills. And my house is 100% electrified - I got rid of all Natural Gas appliances and got the gas supply cut off (heat pump hot water, induction cooktop).
What is still majorly problematic is that regional public EV charging is barely adequate in many areas. There is only 1 Tesla Supercharger site in the whole of Tasmania. I knew a day would come when I would get stuck on a road trip without enough charge to get home. It did end in a heated argument with my lovely usually patient wife and an unexpected stay in a hotel. The event was caused by my miscalculation, but unlike the US, public charging in the regions is woeful. Furthermore Australian local government councils are stacked with right leaning property developer types that obsficate against curbside AC charging. My mum has a generous home PV system but no off-street parking. I wanted to install a flush with the sidewalk EV charging cable duct with lid (commonly deployed in the UK) from the front corner of her house to the roadside so she could take advantage of her excess solar, but Hobart City Council doesn't legally let you install these!
Happy EV ownership does require a bit of technical education, planning and experience.
I can fit in my outdoor lifestyle and go camping towing a trailer full of giant double sea kayaks - that's the deal maker.
Thanks Ben
Thanks for sharing!
As a sparky do you think it would be advantageous to just add charging stations near all sub stations with some form of battery buffer?
Too much power from solar near high voltage interconnect? Throw it in those batteries over the fence.
Grid demand just spiked? Grab it from the battery over the fence.
I'm assuming they'd be a decent spread of these places all over Australia, and it might be good for ancillary services like keeping the frequency of the grid if there's an outage.
@@BenSullinsOfficial Is the tweet from Elon Musk in the video thumbnail still active? I cannot see this tweet. Thanks.
Great response mate. We are definitely on the same page but I do have an advantage to you living here in WA. Southern Tassie - the Minnesota of Australia - love it! I have a 13.7kW roof top solar generator with BYD batteries to charge my Atto 3. Love this way of powering my vehicle and would never ever go back to ICE. Thank you for input.
I love hearing how the EV market is dying. No one is buying them and now the manufacturers are going to hybrid. When if you look at the sales reports, EV's are outselling last years numbers each month and each quarter. Some manufacturers have lower overall sales while having higher EV sales....
Ben, there is some truth to the price of insurance. I’ve been quoted $4000 for a Tesla Y in Sydney Australia
Find another insurance company. There's always companies that will try and milk it whether it's car or house insurance.
Yeah that's not right.. Unless you've had several accidents recently that is an insane price to pay. I pay something like $90-pre tax a month for my Model 3's insurance.
I sold my 2021 rav4 hybrid for my 2022 Mach e. I was paying $70 per week in gas and I now pay around $70 per month for charging. I am lucky that I can charge at home for only 11 cents per kwh.
Insurance companies play fair?! ROTFL!!!🤣🤣🤣
I believe the argument he made about "who wants to charge at 3 am" at the 6:00 mark, was specifically about public chargers. Which you disputed by saying, you just plug when you get home, then it charges itself while you sleep.
You are absolutely right, but I don't think it was the correct argument to his concern about the cost of public fast chargers.
I love the "rising electricity costs" narrative....so dumb. It ignores that
a) electricity is a regulated industry price wise in a huge amount of state/provincial/federal markets.
And
b) gasoline/diesel prices are not exactly the epitome of stable and predictable.
23 years ago when I started driving, gas cost like $0.50/L where I live in BC. It's now around $1.75 (up 3.5x) and was over $2 this summer. Which means soon, $2 will be the new benchmark.
Meanwhile, electricity costs here used to be about 6.5¢/kwh, and are now about 10-14¢/kwh depending on time of day and amount used per mo.
So not only are EVs wildly cheaper to operate now, they're likely only going to continue to get comparatively more cheaper in the future.
Zero facts from MGuy
@@tannermcnabb4836 electricity here in South Australia is 44c/kwh
Mguy is in Australia - this shouldn't be a surprise to you, but Australia is a different country to Canada, and some things (beside the climate) are different.....
Canada appears to have done nuclear right, and seems yo have plenty of cheap power. Australiia, as usual for us, hasn't done anything right, and our grid is predominantly coal based (so quite dirty), and expensive...
Average price of power here is about 25c per kwh, varying with time of day. You can get it much cheaper overnight between 11pm and 6am, free during the day due to excess solar, and much more expensive during evening peak (60c+ per kwh). Commercial fast charging is up around 70c per kwh if you can't charge at home....
I don't like Mguy - I think he's irrationally biased and inaccurate and appears to have an ultraconservative political agenda, but he wasn't wrong about expensive power here....
@@peeemm2032 there is NO WAY you are getting power for an av of 25c here in Adelaide. You can't even get that off peak! Talk about inaccurate!
@@Discoworx yeah, that's what you get for living in Adelaide - SA has ridiculous power prices, but in NSW (and most other states) it's closer to 25c.
Hardly anyone lives in Adelaide, so it doesn't really make much difference to averages anyway 😁
@@peeemm2032and look how much re SA has. 100% during the day. somebody needs to tell the renewables crowd that re doesn't actually bring the cost of electricity down.
If you can charge at home if you can. In UK 50% cannot charge at home and electricity is expensive to charge at stations. The problem with solar is that you need to be able to store electricity and this is a problem. Also with vehicles you are not looking at the age of the vehicle.
Your second sentence needs expending. Storage is what batteries are for.
Thanks for putting MGUY straight. The guy's a hater and a fool
Why do divorce dads hate electric vehicles?
Not too sure really. So many victims of divorce court out here reclaiming their pasts back ig?
My thumb rule: If you live in a city, you shouldn't need a car and if you still do, you should have an off-street parking space.
It is somewhat like how Japanese cities do, where you have to show your 24-hour access to such a space when registering your vehicle.
Australian cities are pretty sprawled out, sadly. Perth is the single longest city in the world, for example.
MGUY IS NOT MISTAKEN NOR UNINFORMED
He is one of many TH-camrs that are deliberately being obtuse, as having a channel hating EV is going to get lots of clicks and therefore income.
This is not ignorance, these tubers may well secretly own EVs, it is a deliberate deceitful ploy.
Well then we can just call him liar then
@kidamere2408 Just don't do that on his channel. That just generates more clicks and comments, meaning better video placement, meaning better ad revenue.
He wants people to call him out.
@@johnpublicprofile6261 sadly probably right
Thank you for doing his vid Ben. MGuy is one of the more egregious Anti-EV TH-camrs out there, so I'm glad channels like yours are here to fact check. 🙌
Some charging stations in Sydney are rip-offs. If I were to charge at a non-tesla charger, I could pay over 60c per kwh for 50kw and more for higher. I mostly charge at home.
They provide a service that you can choose whether or not to use. I suspect you are thinking of the price they pay/sell electricity for and ignoring the other costs like capital costs, rent, maintenance etc. Many a charger loses money.
@gpsfinancial6988 Tesla in the same shopping centre is about 20% cheaper at peak times than they are at midnight for off peak rates a d the tesla charger has at least 5 times the charging speed and 4 times as many spaces that said even the tesla charging costs about two times my home rate that doesn't change with time of day. If tesla can make a profit at that rate I think they also could, but they choose to be so expensive that most of the time, few people use them, and then they rarely seem to work properly. I only got a card to use them in case I need to charge at a place with no tesla charger and ended up using it when I got a voucher when they implemented a new system and wished to promote it. Personally I think a better way to go would be to have paid parking with a charger that can charge you car in up to 8 hours, and you pay for the parking and charging in one transaction at reasonable rates for power used and have these at areas next to blocks of flats and or transport hubs. You could have an account that is linked to your car and your rego information so it could be automatic and every time you need charging you just plug in at the car park and by the time you get back from work or leave home your car has been slow charged with the added bonus that should a car go bad it is in a structure designed to contain the problem not that I expect this to happen often.
$0.60c/kWh is the norm for like, 150kW DCFC maybe, but not for 50kW DCFC... I'd find a different charger, because that's a rip.
My Chevy Bolt costs about $25 a month to charge, and that's driving 900- 1000 miles/month.
I live in Australia, just outside of Sydney and can honestly say that I have refused to watch the BS from M Guy or John Cadogan (another Aussie anti EV activist).
The first time I have watched M Guy was just now and his sanctimonious attitude with his false narrative is vomit inducing.
We drive way more than the average kilometres per year because of living outside of Sydney.
My insurance premiums are barely above that of my ICE Hyundai Kona.
Australia is very much a separate dwelling dominated urban sprawl landscape, unlike say EV loving China which has massive numbers of apartment dwellers in their cities.
Electricity: I do 99% of my charging at home. My overnight EV saver rate at home comes in at $20 Australian dollars a month. But that includes having the spa pool, washing machine, dryer, home heating/cooling and dishwasher on during that time of night. Smart meters only pick time of day. It doesn’t pick what you are using at the time.
As for the rare occasions I use a public charger, such as trips out to the country, a $A60-80 petrol stop is replaced by a $A11-23 charge. Just did exactly that last weekend on a trip to the Mudgee wine region.
So yeah. from my Aussie perspective, I can honestly say that M Guy is full of BS!
I’m a Sydneysider with a Tesla Model Y and Skoda Kodiaq SUV. My weekly running costs for the Model Y is around about 1/5th of my Skoda. With my electricity plan I pay 8c per KW/h between midnight and 6 am. It is so cheap to charge at home. Insurance through the same Allianz costs roughly double for the Tesla. Not sure why.
NSW government and local governments offer a lot of free chargers for people in convenient locations. There is one less than 5 mins walk from my workplace.
He is right regarding insurance cost, and that can be a significant factor for people who do not drive much. Currently I pay less than $70 a month for my Mercedes E350, and that could easily triple for an EV. Of course now there will a flood of posters telling me my cost is higher because I'm a bad driver, too old, or that their EV insurance costs less than their ICE vehicle, etc., etc. But the fact remains, for almost everyone insurance is more expensive for an EV.
No, as has been said so many times here, insurance is the SAME as ICE.
@@paulc6766 If yours is the same that's great, but it hasn't been my experience.
Mguy is English, not Australian fyi.
Everyone has to work out the numbers based on their situation, but for me:
My Chevrolet Bolt does 4 miles/kWh at 10c/kWh, so 2.5c per mile.
Gas in Eugene OR is currently $3.10 a gallon.
To beat 2.5c per mile efficiency I need to do 125 miles/gallon. No such car exists, best is 70mpg in a Prius Prime (hybrid).
Insurance on the Bolt is the same as my old car, a 2007 Mazda 3.
Unless people are renting an apartment, most houses have driveways in this city.
Yes, I'm usually charging at 3am, and don't need to get up and plug in at that time.
Nice. Keep it up.
They try to argue EVS are too expensive but they also appreciate tell me if you want to save money buy used, there is no argument there