The Uncomfortable TRUTH About EVs: The Version NEITHER SIDE Wants You To Hear
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 พ.ค. 2024
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Chapter Listing:
0:00 Introduction
1:57 How It Was
4:18 It's Not All Bad
8:53 Things Have Changed
12:45 Charging and Disability
17:21 The EV Conspiracy
22:27 It Gets Tricky
25:49 Why It's An Issue
28:29 "Digital Cars"
29:32 EV Repairability & Longevity
33:42 Conclusion
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Scrapage is not the answer. Scrapage was a disaster as many classic cars were lost, but also scrapping perfectly useable old cars and building new ones makes no environmental sense whatsoever.
Once again it also favour Ed the rich who could afford a new car. It offers no help to those for whom this is not a financial reality. Indeed it reduces the pool of available vehicles they could buy.
Exactly, scrappage never allowed trading a 15 year old car to a 10 year old one. A scheme solely for those well off enough to buy new cars anyway.
This is also my dislike of scrappage schemes. They are a great way for wealthy people to get new cars with a government subsidy (often second cars too), but do nothing for the less wealthy. I also think most people miss that such schemes are just as much about boosting car manufacturing as emissions reduction.
Yup it's been proved world over that scrappage schemes produce a vastly larger carbon footprint than allowing the normal replacement of the vehicle fleet - yet people still bring it up as an idea to "save the planet" - you can't save the planet by consuming more product faster - why people can't follow that very simple logic, I do not understand. I can understand trying to encourage people in polluted cities to buy clearer vehicles - but as Jay states here, simple way to do that is tariff the crap out of people bringing polluting cars into those cities - and that will in turn accelerate the replacement of those vehicles - but that's still not going to "save the planet" - just local air quality.
One point Jay didn't touch on and i wanted to hear his opinion on was this and the evnironmental cost of making batteries aswell. Lithium and cobalt mining is quite dirty business both literally and figuratively. Can we keep up with the demand, without making it even worse than it already is. How much are we saving the environment really? Also the synthetic fuel that porche is making seems like a good alternative if adopted at scale i think Germany already has some plans to make exceptions for ICEs on synthfuel.
Also if an ev battery lasts lets say 10 years, is it going to be economically viable to swap that one with a brand new one and keep the car on the road for atleast another 10. And even that a 20 year old car is still a usable vehicle in most cases, is that case true for evs and how much are we saving the environment if cars become more disposable?
I live in eastern Europe (Bulgaria) and 20 and even 30 year old cars are still quite common especially if you are not in the capital where people earn more money. Will that happen with evs?
@@PoliPantev Private vehicles are just such a small part of the problem anyway - but they are a "soft target" for politicians who want to be seen to be doing something. Ideally if we really wanted to make any actual impact, then eliminating private vehicle ownership in cities and forcing people to use bikes and public transport would be the only way to do it.
As a senior with disabled license plates issued by the government, I truly appreciate you bringing up this topic for discussion.
It seems like something that should have been discussed a long time ago
Your problem isn’t EV’s or not, it’s about access to transportation options. This is where self driving cars could help the disabled.
Yes, self driving can help, but its not EV or not, it's to make sure the chargers are handicap accessible, @@TML34
The U.S. gov had a webinar this year: th-cam.com/video/P0MaoceTZoI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=FPtekTD-BUsHV_yR @@JayEmmOnCars
@@TML34 of course 🙄🤔🥱🤡
We bought into cable TV because we didn't want to see commercials but now we see more, we brought into DVDs , DVRs and digital streaming and now we're not allowed to fast forward through commercials while we get gouged for subscription services because now we can't go back. When electric cars are the norm electric prices will go through the freaking roof !!! , new batteries will cost way more than a house, and it doesn't matter because you can't afford rent anyway.
👆
References may be needed for electric prices going through the roof and new batteries costing more than a house.
@@davecolgan442 ask me again when it happens. Until they make make shorter range cars with sodium batteries lithium prices should start to go through the roof.
@@davecolgan442 it happens with every resource that becomes government mandate and something everybody uses. Like platinum and rhodium with catalytic converters. My mom used to have some platinum and rhodium jewelry, I believe it was about the same price as white gold at the time.
@@davecolgan442Right now, EV's are not paying road taxes. When they become the norm THEN they will be charged per-mile to make up the difference. The government will install a GPS tracker & send you a bill.
Sandero diesel owner here. I get over 70mpg on a local dual carriageway run, costing around 10p/mile. My current price for electricity is about 33p/unit, around 10p/mile for an EV. At 99g/km my Sandero is £0 tax and in a lower insurance group than most EVs. I could drive the 320 miles from Birmingham to Stirling and back without having to refuel, which no EV can do and I'd have to pay a higher unit price to recharge. My Sandero cost under £3,000 (used) to buy outright; any similar EV with a useful range is at least thrice that. Although cheap, I didn't buy the car to show off; it does everything I need from a car. If all my journeys were local I'd consider an EV but at this point it makes absolutely no economical sense.
My sons 2013 Dacia sandero 1.5 diesel, with 42k on the clock does 87 mpg on a run at 65 mph after an oil change and service, it is VED exempt to, he frequently drives 700 miles to the isle of sky in it in about 12 hours.
Comparing a cheap old car to a new car is daft.
Also, you can buy EVs that have > 320 miles of range. And even if it didn’t then if you have an EV with say 250 miles of range then you only have to pay for 70 miles at the higher price.
I charge my EV overnight at 7p per kWh. It's around the equivalent of 600mpg comparing with a more average 50mpg diesel of a similar size to my EV.
I don't think there is a viable EV in the market right now to compete with your current car. I'd estimate within 10 years there will be. But you don't need a 320 mile range to do a 320 mile trip. You will be stopping at least once in that journey for a meal. You stop where there is a supercharger and eat while you charge the car.
Stop thinking just buy new thing and get excited for next thing
@@AdrianHilder and when it's a really cold day and you have the heating on the windscreen wipers on, how's your range then?
There should be 3 options. ICE, Hybrid & full EV's. Not just EV's or nothing..
Hybrids will still be sold in 2035 as will low volume ICE cars plus the 40 odd million ICE cars already sold will still be available
Missed out hydrogen...
Hybrids will be laughed at in 30 years
@@ericpisch2732 how low is low volume? I assume none of them will be affordable
The market will decide quicker than any governmental regulation!
A lot of manufactures are using the EV boom to take away reparability and further integrate planned obsolescence to their cars. Louis Rossmann talks about this a lot on his YT channel.
Very true EVs do remove 99% of the repairability, mostly because they only have about 20 moving parts
That’s so true, it’s their perfect chance to convince normal folks that EVs are unrepairable because “electricity” and “technology”. Manufacturers will offer no spare parts, or hugely expensive ones, void your warranty, lock you out of their chargers, lock inverters, motors and batteries with different serial numbers (see Apple) etc., simply because it’s their perfect chance. Instead of actually reducing pollution, they will turn out to be a huge environmental and economical burden.
@@ericpisch2732 Your knowledge about cars seems to be a bit lacking. Chassis, suspension, brakes, infotainment, HVAC, electronics are all equally or more complex than ICE cars.
You have an extra heat pump, and usually air suspension, adaptive dampers and rear wheel steering, because most EVs weigh over 2 tonnes. Active air intakes because they need the best aerodynamic efficiency. And the battery and inverter cooling is quite complex, and good luck finding any parts because “shortages”. Can’t wait to see EVs being thrown away because the manufacturer quotes 30k and you can’t get an independent to repair it
You will get shot down in flames on social media for slating electric cars
Very true and that’s exactly the reason insurance premiums are increasing
It doesn't matter how a fire starts. Even if the Luton fire didn't start at an EV, is DEFINITELY spread to one. Fires happen. They happen on ships, on ferries, in tunnels, in parking garages.
To be honest I don’t think I would like to travel on a ship with lots of EV’s on board. It doesn’t matter what type of vehicle that starts the fire, but as you say once a fire hits an EV, there is no putting it out and if there are lots of EV’s the ship is doomed.
@@marcandsebe There is a good method, extinguishing foam.
@@Peter-oh3pm Ok! You go on a ship and rely on foam to put out an EV fire.
@@Peter-oh3pm What is foam going to do? Just like with thermite, lithium ion battery fires produce their own oxidizer. You can't smother them - which is why even if they didn't burn at absurdly high temperatures, they would still be a problem. Combine it with their absurdly high temperatures and now you have a serious hazard. A hazard that isn't being properly identified as such because of politics/feelings. Yeah, that's going to end well!
You want to say its the patriotic duty of every EV to stop fires from landrovers and their ilk?
EV charge point installations weren't stagnant from 2020 to 2022. Installation rates have been roughly exponential from 2012 inwards. There's been a 45% increase in charge points since December 2022. Let's hope the rest of your points are more accurate... Not a great start.
About a year ago we stopped in Carlisle on our way down to Cumbria, to do some last minute shopping. We pulled into a space in a carpark and went to the pay machine. There we joined a small, trans generational crowd - no one could figure out how to buy a parking ticket. Whether you were 90 or 20, smart phone user or cavewoman…
Had that with own early 70s year old Dad, he couldn't park at the same one he used for years in a small town one day because they changed the machine. Not making a big fuss I took some time to go with him next time to show him how to use it, never even thought it would be a problem but the machine was ridiculous. It wanted the car number plate, the bay etc but had old school mobile phone text input for letters rather than a full keypad and just had numerical input.
It was obviously done on the cheap, a older machine reprogrammed beyond the original hardware design to try and stop ticket sharing.
@@Tuberuser187that really sounds ridiculous, why would anyone even manufacture a "modern" parking ticket machine like this in the first place. 😮🫣
@@Tuberuser187 The problem is we are not all the same. I'm in my 70's sending this from the latest Windows 11 laptop and have the latest Samsung Z fold 5G phone - oh and I'm on my second EV. I love technology and have just installed Voip phones in my home, but my sister, who is a few years younger than me, understands none of this! So I feel for your dad.
Last summer we, a Belgian family visited the Kent region for our summer holiday you simply cannot believe how many times we could not get a valid parking ticket for various reasons, or we could not download the parking app, or there was bad 4G network and we could not pay online, or the parking ticket machines simply did not work, or some of the "smart" parking camera's would not register a Belgian numberplate and would not open the gate, or....the list goes on and on and on..... Is this the new high tech world we live in, a world where you simply can not park your car because of regional digital differences. Just glad we did not drive an EV and were able to still get petrol at the pumps. Designers of many of these systems just don't think about the greater picture and impact of their crappy gimmicks, go back tot the basics or make them so that everyone can use them and not only the designer of the machine.
OMG, don't get me started on Carlisle. I took a RZ450e there and most chargers I went to were out of order or full. I spent over an hour looking for an available and working charger. (plus I had to download an app and sign up to Genie)
I lived in an apartment in Bham City centre last year. I inquired about fitting a charging point for an electric car. The building management company told me in 3-4 years we may be able to get charging points... 2 charging points for 100 parking spaces. Unfortunately the fire brigade had ruled out any more in the future as any potential battery fire could spread uncontrollably and emergency vehicles would be too big to access the basement carpark. The fire could create enough fire to destroy the building. Shouldn't this issue have been highlighted before the government committed to banning new ICE vehicles? Especially as cities are supposed to be a priority for the reduction of tailpipe emissions.
And there lies a massive problem, needs to be a solution that fits all
Here in Norway they have legislated that a building management company can't refuse to install EV chargers if the residents request them.
However many cars are close together and if one explodes then they all do. Sounds very fair.@@15bit62
But you’re happy with probably 2,000 gallons of highly flammable fuel sat under your apartment? This is exactly the scaremongering James was talking about.
@@hughesy606 it doesn't really matter what I'm happy with if the fire brigade have completed a risk assessment and banned charging points. It's not scaremongering, it's a fact.
The EU laws proposed to ban older cars outright and ban own repairs of cars of a certain age - as well as forcing them to be condemned and not allowing people to repair them is very real indeed . And the proposal is in the process of becoming law - already at or past very serious stages of its process to become law. This has recently been publicly discussed ( I saw it just a few weeks ago in december 2023) in great lengths by the Swedish Motorists interest group "Motormännen" on a youtube video of theirs recently, were they show the EU proposal, quote it at great lengths and are both taking it very seriously and are seriously very worried about the consequences of it for veteran cars, car-hobbyists car-enthusiasts and the hundreds of thousands of modified older vehicles in private ownership as well as the entire used car market, the market for recirculation of old engines, parts, on and on.
It is not for the environment, Germans and French mostly just want to sell more cars...
Lets not panic about proposals until they actually become law or close to it.
To late then mate.
@@robertp457It's not a problem if there are still elections in between. But you have to be aware of problematic proposals before they become law.
The Germans and Swiss finally have their 3rd reich. And just like the german socialist labour party 100 years ago they are banning any possible competition. EVils sucks and almost nobody wants them? Fascist solution: ban everything else
It is almost like different things work for different people. Who would have thought?
I just wish I had been given some training on how to live with an EV before I got one. I had to learn the hard way that range drops 40% in winter. And that you must have a home charger that is level 2 or better.
@@joecoolioness6399 Yes the range in the winter sucks. Winter tyres and heating really takes a lot of energy. Believe it or not but I charge my bmw i3 with normal 230V and 8A with a cable extension. It works but it is slow, not a problem if you charge during the night.
It'd be ridiculous in Australia, cold in winter, stinking hot in summer, where the AC would drag that battery down like a demon, and the heat would degrade battery performance drastically
Exactly…
Range drops 40% in winter, BS. Mine drops 10% without heat pump.
As someone with disabilities I can't tell you how much it means to me to hear Jay acknowledge just how vital cars are for us. It's hard right now with cost of living. Thanks Jay
Another one playing a victim card? Every person faces some hardship in life....not just victim card players.
@@igorkratka no one is saying life is easy for everyone else. Jai described a cars importance to disabled people well. Especially if you have mobility problems. How am I playing a victim card? I was just thanking Jay for his kind thinking. You need to chill
@@psions555He doesn't need to chill, he needs to shut up and get back in his box. Ignore the idiot, he isn't worth any kind of response.
@@igorkratka It's not about hardship. It's about physical and mental disabilities, which restrict the actions of a person, compared to a normal abled person.
An example is someone born with no legs. I had a older late relative who was in that exact position, but could drive a car, via hand controls.
I know she would have faced huge difficulties trying to use a public charging station.
So it's not about playing victim cards, but understanding a person's needs and requirements. The Equality Act 2010 protects against discrimination, and ensure public services can be available to all people regardless of race, gender, religion, disability, age etc. So they'll be a need to address disability use of EV charge points. Considering the UK executive is pushing to phase out all new sales of ICE and any hybrid by 2035.
Motability, the UK's largest fleet service, and keeping the disabled person mobile. Requires you to order a brand new car, that is built from the production line. Since more new cars are now becoming EV. More disabled drivers will be driving EV's.
Nissan have announced that from 2025, all Jukes, and Qashqai's built in Sunderland will be EV only. So their EV line up from smallest to largest, will be Juke > Leaf (crossover) > Qashqai.
Cars are vital because government destroyed all the infrastructure that could have supported you properly.
I drive a 2006 Vantage V8, my wife has a 2014 Tesla model S. The Tesla has had THREE replacement HV batteries. One at 83k, the second at 104k and the third at 112,800. Tesla replace warranty batteries with "refurbished" units. The warranty ends in April next year (it was a Tesla demo car for the first 2 years and was retailed with an 8 year warranty). A "new" replacement battery is £17,500 effectively scrapping the car, so we can't possibly keep it. So, EVs are only possible to own for a little less than the warranty period...
You could carry out a full engine rebuild on your Aston @ circa 100k miles for less than the cost of the Tesla battery..
@@zm321 yep...
just imagine amount of pollution due to 2 battery replacement on such a small mileages. Your old grumpy v8 would never come even close to that amount :)
Tesla...the environmental choice...🤔...oh! 😳
😄
@@douglasb.5601 Exactly
The biggest problem is the price of electricity. Somehow, the government has allowed it to spiral over the last two years despite the input costs of generating electricity being about the same. If electricity was cheap (and by cheap I mean less than 10p/kWh for domestic supply and less than 20-25p/kWh for a fast charger), consumers would be all over them as they're so much cheaper to run despite the higher purchase cost. At current prices, it just doesn't make sense if you don't have a company car scheme.
The same is true for heat pumps - despite spending ages researching heat pumps, we're going to replace our old boiler with a new efficient gas boiler. Gas is so much cheaper than electricity that even the most efficient heat pump with a CoP of 4 would cost more to run, making the higher initial investment a complete non-starter.
Octopus ("-Go") (and others, I believe) are offering under-10p for super-off-peak. The deal for heat-pumps is a little more expensive. It is irritating that Octopus differentiate between the two - you need to prove you own an EV to get "Go". A worse problem is the grid supply that most homes have. I have 1-phase 100A, and like most people, upgrade to 3-phase would be extortionate. But my supply will not be able to fully charge an EV and run the heat-pump in the small slot of super-off-peak hours that "Go" or the other allocate. A battery would make the situation even worse. In the long term, the answer to all this is a massive, cheap home battery and truly dynamic "pull-oriented" operation. It isn't on the horizon in say, next 2 years. So for now, most power will cost 10p but you have to just put up with the occasional ripoff which might be 70p at a fast-charging station. But "non-starter" is incorrect; with the UK govt 7k5 grant a heat-pump is viable, especially considering that the pricing of gas vs electric is entirely artificial.
Natural gas is cheaper today on the wholesale market than it was in 1990.
@@jonb5493That's not the biggest problem. The biggest problem is that we'll need to spend several trillion pounds on infrastructure to upgrade the grid, and I hope you're joking about batteries. People are out of their minds with all that stuff when the alternative is a 4p / kwh gas boiler for the house and their existing car at £1.40 / litre for petrol. It's absolute insanity.
@@davelowe1977 Let's look at the numbers. 4p/Kwh gas is about the same cost/KWh heat as 10p/KWh electricity, assuming a CoP of 2.5 in a heat-pump. If the heat-pump has better than 2.5 CoP, it is actually cheaper than gas. Besides, a couple of years ago gas prices were 4x this. And regarding petrol home-charged EVs are far cheaper to run than ICEs.
@@jonb5493 Except that gas is 7.67p kWh and electricity is 29.49p kWh meaning that with your COP of 2.5, the electricity is 35% more expensive. Also, once there's no competing fuel, the electricity price will skyrocket.
I would like to congratulate you on a balanced and well thought out presentation. I have an iPace that will be 5 years old in 2 months time. Cost 65k now worth just over £20k. On reflection 30% retention after 5 years on a big luxury car is not bad. Running costs are a fraction of a likewise ICE that will cost 25p v my 3p mile. Service costs have been £500 v probably £2,500. You are quite right that you have to take into account what sort of distances you travel in a day and it has always been the case that 200 plus, you should buy a Tesla. The most I normally drive in a day is 100 max. I have a drive with a charger so I do not have range anxiety. When I bought the car it was a special treat after I sold my business and I always planned to keep it 10 years, subject to it not being a problem car, which it has not. In fact it has only spent time in a garage for an update apart from the 2 services
Now to talk about possibly the most important part, if one is interested in driving. It is without doubt the best car I have ever driven and I have driven Mercedes, BMW, Volvo and a host of other cars. I am not saying it is a better EV than those other EV makes, but I have found it much more fun than my former ICE cars.Every time I drive the Cat it brings a smile to my face😀😃😁
As a daily driver/town car I don't care what type of engine my car has.
What I care about is cost & reliability. You can buy a really good small ICE car for under 3k and if it's maintained properly get another 5+ years out of it.
EVs just don't compare price wise. It's that simple.
Plus now all the financial subsidies for EVs are being removed the cost of ownership is starting to increase rapidly.
It's getting harder all the time picking up a decent car for £3k but it undeniable EV cars are going too remain expensive. And charging them won't be cheap either.
I have thought all along that scrappage schemes would greatly increase second hand car prices. I still regularly endure vile smelling diesel fumes from passing cars cars in my garden in spite of it. Makes me understand why ULEZ is wanted, but it's denying personal mobility to many people.
EV man demonstrated that you can pick up a second hand Seat mii for the same as a similar aged ICE car… it’s almost there and once bought insanely cheap to run if you can charge at home.
@ericrawson2909 I think it would be fairer to just let the old cars phase themselves out through old age and replace. Than extra taxes and clean zones.
if you really only cared about cost and reliablity you'd be driven a gen1 nissan leaf round town! Pretty much zero depreciation, 100% reliability and they are actually far far nicer to drive than some litle buzz box of a small car with a engine that i wouldn't power a sewing machine with... ;-)
The main problem with EVs is that the tech will date so quickly. A current EV will be about as wanted an iPhone 4 in short time.
That's how I see it. Remember the mass hoverboard craze back in 2015. How many do you see being advertised now or being used by adults? Same with Segway balance personal transport things. Segway now produce not only those but robotic lawnmowers and internal combustion powered ATV's.
Exactly, it’ll just be a short fad until we realise how crap and polluting they are.
disagree, tech outdates quickly because it's a trivial item that is relatively inexpensive to replace where a car is something that is not cheap by any means and not trivial to replace so there is an incentive for both consumers and manufacturers to keep them going in the long run. Possibly parts might be an issue since no manufacturer wants cars to last forever and they can simply cop out and say it's too expensive to stock parts. Also a car from the 80's usable today because pretty much the base functionality of a car hasn't changed wildly in the past 50 or so years arguably for more. If you don't have an american style rampant consumerist mindset EVs will be viable as long as they remain reliable and depreciate enough that a second hand market can thrive.
@@mertvaran5733
I agree with you completely.
In response to the original comment, I will that I would be quite happy to still be using my iPhone 4 if iPhones could be upgraded with new memory and other device upgrades that have happened over the years, but honestly the biggest problem IS that Apple no longer supports the iPhone 4 so that means no more software updates, new apps that won’t run on the old software, etc. so the fact that it is now essentially obsolete is its biggest problem. I don’t think I even have a cable to charge the iPhone 4 anymore. At least I can still charge my iPhone 6 (which I think is the most recent iPhone to no longer be supported) and access the data on it and use some of the software when I’m on Wi-Fi.
My 6 yr old Tesla still gets full over the air support. That means software and navigation updates all completely free. One other perk of Teslas compared to other EVs, and why so many people love them...
Very nice video with interesting ideas. As a disabled person with a limited lifespan, I see all this as another unnecessary problem. Rarely move from bed an had to move to a flat due to stairs and financial troubles. Not sure how I will be paying the rent in the near future, but had to change my perfectly working petrol Volvo for an emissions compliant car, mainly because hospitals are in big cities.
The problem with diesels is not the reputation, is the legislation.
There are loads of money being spent on synthetic fuels, guess what?
You can just fuel a diesel car from a number of vegetable oils that can be produced in-country.
Fountains of Wayne reliably informed me that Stacy’s Mom not only still has it going on, but that she is still driving a non-ULEZ compliant diesel hatchback 😂
ISTR Stacey's Mum drove a 5.0ltr Mustang Convertible. Still not ULEZ compliant, however... ;o)
It is if it is a Euro 6 engine.
So I can confirm after just mowing the lawn, that Stacy's mom still has it going on.
I went to school with Stacy's Mum. She was in my younger Brother's year. Even at our now advanced years, she still has it going on. One thing though, she's a nicer person than you would imagine. I've interacted a couple of times over the decades (bloody hell) and she treats me like a long lost friend, completely genuine human being. Her Mum was lovely too.
Jay, wait until we're all slaves to the EV, do you really think you're getting 500 miles for 8 quid?
@@petef7323damn right we wont
Mrs Brown also had a lovely daughter.
@@petef7323 Wait till they have to include the road taxes in the electricity and aren't currently being paid. Right now they're freeloading and putting more wear on the roads with the excess weight.
Hey there- Great video! I live in New York state. My wife and I were considering an EV, but she had concerns as she does a lot of long distance trips. We said on a plug-in hybrid, which kind of fit the best of both worlds. I don't drive as much as her so when I am ready I will buy an EV. I have solar panels and have a private home so I can plug in at night, but I also recognize that that is not always the case. How our cars and everything else. Do impacts our climate, but I agree we need to take a measured and thoughtful approach to this. That said, we can't marry our heads in the sand and pretend like this problem doesn't exist. Thanks for the great video
You're bang on, honestly. I have an EV as my personal car and public charging is a total, expensive mess. I'm lucky that I can charge at home and work, but they are absolutely not the be and end all for most people and a lot of use cases right now, as much as I do love mine.
You are the first TH-cam to mention help for the disabled driver . I've asked this question of many vloggers without ever getting a satisfactory answer. Well done for addressing this 👍
These are coming th-cam.com/video/wjKbx0LFwow/w-d-xo.html
Recharging any EV will always be a struggle for the physically disabled drivers, whether at home or while traveling, the infrastructure simply isn't there for us! While you've asked vloggers about the problems we face, I have yet to hear a peep from any of the "Disability Rights Advocates" groups!
I run 80-odd trucks and am based just outside London. We're already being taxed, levied, surcharged, fined and tolled out of existence, and now they're pushing electric on us too. It's easy for DHL, Amazon, DPD and the like to tell everyone how amazing the electric future will be because they're the only ones who can afford it.
When companies like mine have gone and there is only the likes of Amazon and DHL left, everyone will wonder why it is that delivery costs to their homes and business are now extortionate.
And the planet will still be in crisis because the Chinese, Indians, Africans, Russians and South Americans are not holding themselves to the same values.
Do you know what happens to old trucks? They take all of the complicated and unreliable emissions equipment off of them and sell them to Africa......
Corporatism in action. You think it’s a coincidence that during the recent contagion of unspecified origin that small businesses closed at an unprecedented rate whilst the big corporations made the biggest profits they’ve ever done? You think it is a coincidence that big corporations love and push for more and more government regulation and legislation that they can afford but smaller businesses can’t? All part of the plan. You will own nothing and be happy.
Regarding rates at the charger you did not even touch a serious problem.
In many countries and I believe in the UK as well a sizeable part of the fuel cost are taxes meant to fincance the road contruction and such.
It is often 30-50% of the fuel cost.
It adds up to billions needed for maintenantce and such.
If they really want 100% EVs they would need to find that money somewhere else.
I calculated roughly for Germany where I come from an EV would need to get chared and additional 15-30c / kWh or alternatively 500+€ / 10.000km per year to get te same financing.
Else the government would need to cross-finance roads from other budgets meaning everybody (car or not) would pay for highway maintenance and also meaning private non-public driving would no longer be discouraged/punished.
Ev insurance in Michigan is 50-75% more than the equilivent gas car.
The reason? Small accidents that even remotely could cause structual integrity will cause the insurance company to total the vehicle.
A great video, no sensation, excellent information and well balanced, pointing out many undiscussed issues and concerns
The 'cashless' aspect is alarming and very valid. Aside from the 'personal interaction' aspect, it is a real issue for the future (not a conspiracy thing). Privacy alone is seriously worth considering.
I haven't paid for petrol or diesel with cash for 30 years either.
Who uses cash these days?
its more of a concern with less developed countries, not to exclude developed ones of course. but when network cut off or system overload can just happen anytime due to improper infrastructures its very worrying for future EV users living in those areas.
@@sargfowler9603I do. 😊
Cash is your private property. Money on your bank account are simply a credit, are not "your". From a legal point of view, is the bank allow you to "spend" the credit they have versus other banks (i.e. the bank of your supermarket).
Obviously, the bank can revoke this "privilege" at any moment by pressing a button.
Did you catch the difference?
Think about tomorrow at the supermarket. Your money is not involved when you buy stuff, it just a talk between banks.
cashless payments hinge on the same resource as EVs and increasingly our whole society. Electricity. The biggest threat to a future society that does mobility, heating, cooling, payments, smart homes, etc via this one single resource is that concentration of risk.
What will we do after a day of a power outage, 3 days, a week? Will supermarkets battery backup their payment terminals so we can get canned food out of them legally?
Will terrorists figure out that the most damage and chaos they can do is simply attacking a few substations outside a big city that will take days to fix?
There are solutions to all of this but only very few people haven even started to think about them.
Cash Payments might be such a backup solution.
I've seen car fires pertol, diesel were really scary. I've seen an ev go up terrifying.
Eg a petrol car had a fire outside of our village last year it was towed away repaired in a week, no road damage.
A Tesla went up few months later compleat destruction in minutes the driver had to break window to get out. Panicked whe electric door opening failed forgot of hidden hande. Hour to put fire out and weeks to repair damage to the road.
The extra weight of the EV and the speed of the battery fire is very dangerous.
Yes it was diesel Range Rover in that fire, but the fire in the video looked to come from where batteries would be in a diesel hybrid.
Would our government cover that up to push there EV golden boy when the tec isn't ready? YES.
Hi, here's some ev user experience for the comments. My partner bought a 2014 Nissan leaf 4 years ago, it cost 8k at the time. Since owning it she has saved 4.7k in fuel costs over her previous Honda Jazz. It costs 2p per mile to charge it overnight with Octopus go ( at home) .The leaf is a very nice car, at 10 years old it still feels like a new car to drive. It has done 88000 miles, and still has 85% of its battery capacity( this is very early ev battery tech in the leaf, modern evs would retain much more capacity after 10 years). The early leafs do have limited range though, this is its only downside, but does not cause a problem as is used for local sub 100 mile journeys. I was driving an old VW T4 during the first 3 years of the leaf, the maintenance and fuel costs were crazy. I was lucky enough to be able to buy a Citroen E Dispatch last year, the savings in fuel are again the biggest bonus ( 3p per mile) it's range is much more than the leaf, around 190miles, so this became our longer distance vehicle. Longer journeys are straight forward as it can charge at 100kw, so top up stops of 20 minutes at services for a loo stop/ snack are at the same stopping intervals as the old T4, (every couple of hours or so )As 90% of the charging is done at home, big fuel savings are made overall, when on longer journeys in the holidays, the cost of charging on road trips works out the same as the old diesel. So whilst not perfect at the moment for everyone's use case, there are many advantages, and things will only improve. As said in the video, public charging costs need to be lower in future, there do need to be more rapid chargers to keep up with demand, but we have seen new huge banks of chargers appearing at various M5 services, and Tesla have started making their chargers available to none Teslas too. With competition between suppliers, hopefully the charge costs will start to drop....
Excellent video! Would you consider doing one on the truth about current killer LED-lights? We all want to see well yes, but must users of new cars literally blind all others? Especially if you drive a normal hight car (NON SUV etc), the jacked-up current cars with headlights at eyelevel plus sun-explosion light strength make things very difficult and dangerous for others.
Agree totally.
I sometimes have to brake hard and cover my eyes ⚠️
Crazy bright lights on later cars has gone too far 🤬
Thankfully it seems it's not just me who thinks this, especially in the wet you literally cannot see anyone who maybe at crossings etc ...
Agreed, I think part of the problem could be auto lights, they don't seem to switch to headlights from beam until they have blinded you.
Yes we were talking about this at work. Having to drive down unlit country roads, with loads of elevation. Really struggling these days. Especially as I'm in a 2 series coupe, so low down anyway. Mainly oncoming, but also from behind. Without auto dimming side mirrors, quite draining.
You are absolutely spot on with that statement. Its getting ridiculous now.
Regarding EV fires, it's worth pointing out that while LiNMC cells are prone to thermal runaway when damaged, the mainstream car industry is quickly transitioning to LiFePo chemistry (largely because it's cheaper) which is far more chemically stable, to the point of it being almost impossible for LiFePo battery packs to catch fire even when damaged or exposed to extreme heat.
They'll never happen in anything smaller than a truck.
_"Li-ion batteries can store more power per volume or weight unit than LFPs. For example, the energy density of a typical Li-ion battery is around 45-120 Wh per lb (100-265 Wh per kg), while the energy density of a LiFePO4 battery is about 40-55 Wh per lb (90-120 Wh per kg)."_
small amount battery fired 🔥 compared to combustion ICE carrying gasoline 🔥 around cause thousands if not millions of deaths!
@@m4rvinmartian Dunno what you are talking about.. For example Tesla's Chinese manufactured cars use mainly LFP packs since the start. Chinese EVs will soon be almost exclusively something else than NMC. From 2020 to 2022, before the Berlin and Austin factory, basically half of Tesla's were manufactured with LFP packs.
The current Model 3/Y 60kWh LFP pack makes for a great EV at as low as ~35k€ after incentives.
even with fireproof battery i still love to rev the hell out my itb shtbox,sounds good,feels good.
gas is near free here too
@@m4rvinmartian You are seriously misinformed, they are already in the Tesla Model 3 & Y RWD and all new BYD's.
“Has satcy’s mom still got it going on” pure gold 😂
I love my diesel. I do so many miles per year getting to work and back, plus towing my caravan that an EV doesn't suit me. I do love the tech on them, though. I recently went to a KIA dealership to enquire about an a new diesel, and i was told they're not selling new ones. This seems a little odd considering the ICE ban does not come into effect for 12 years. The question is: Is this a KIA thing or happening throughout car dealerships?
Even though the ICE ban isn't until 2035, the manufacturers still have to hit a slowly rising 80% target by 2030, plus they have C02 targets too. Over the next 3 years you will see a big flip. Manufacturers will be offering EVs and small engined cars. Pretty much anything with a inefficient engine wont be viable under the new rules unless the manufacturer has built up lots of credits by selling EVs.
@@virtualcircuitwell best we can do is cross our fingers and hope that a significant portion of countries changes politically against the actual anti ICE agenda
I was super glad to hear the news about Stacey’s Mum. Bless her heart
This was my main take as well
Now Limited to 20 MPH Mind You !
The cost of EV operation is just going to go up. Here in the US part of the gasoline taxes are used for state and federal road maintenance (and other non-transportation needs). Several states are now looking at how to tax EVs with a road use tax since they pay no gasoline tax. The US government is ignoring this this for now as it conflicts with its green politics but it’s a huge amount of money and eventually money will win out over politics and it too will start taxing EVs. As the utility companies start upgrading the electrical grids to deal with more and more EVs, they will just pass those costs to consumers which will hit you for home electrical use, not just EVs. This will not stop EVs but people need manage their expecatation of cheap transportation in the future.
You couldn't be further from the truth. The government has been subsidizing gas for decades. They subsidize far more than they collect in taxes. Here's a quick read about it from the official website of the US Senate. www.budget.senate.gov/chairman/newsroom/press/sen-whitehouse-on-fossil-fuel-subsidies-we-are-subsidizing-the-danger-#:~:text=As%20we'll%20hear%20today,record%20%244%20trillion%20of%20income.
You couldn't be further from the truth. The government has been subsidizing gas for decades. The taxes they collect are fast lesser than the subsidies. Here's an article from the official US Senate website saying as much.
www.budget.senate.gov/chairman/newsroom/press/sen-whitehouse-on-fossil-fuel-subsidies-we-are-subsidizing-the-danger-
only areas with the highest fuel taxes and road saturation come anywhere near covering the cost of infrastructure with the fuel tax, I dont think anywhere on the north american continent actually covers infrastructure with the fuel tax. Might change if gravel roads get put into suburbs.
@@DctrBread can you please state were you obtaining the information?
@@sgtbrown4273 a different youtube video lol, not my original research
Great thought provoking video !!! Where is all this electricity coming from ? even if the country was awash with chargers. Again the Gov has dropped the ball over new generation stations for the grid and the PV growth has no hope of matching demand if this EV future comes true. As a population we could not plan an event in a brothel with a willing emploee having parted with the cash, imho. Jay keep up the good work on education about logic / cause and effect and unintended results.
Cant forget about that Mitsubishi i-Miev EV :) Great video brother. I drove, to my surprise, a Hyundai Sonata Hybrid and thought it was the strangest thing when the engine cut off at a stop and did its thing going back and forth but still an interesting drive. Years later and more recently I drove a Wrangler Sahara 4xE around California and it was nice and quite good on gas getting around mid 20's worth of mpg and like 12 mpg when we were ripping it on the interstate out there just keeping up and not necessarily racing the thing lol. Stay blessed
Huge respect for putting this out. That final note of varying your information sources alone is worth the watch. This video feels like a very grounded and unbiased take. Really appreciate a big channel like yours putting this out
Thanks! It's a tough topic to tackle without becoming biased or sensational
As a new car salesperson, a hardcore petrolhead trying to keep an open mind, and a recent EV lessee, I try to be as fair and as balanced as possible. To keep it short, there are definite pros and cons, and we have a long way to go before EV's will be widely adopted and phase out ICE vehicles for everyday folks, especially as a sole vehicle in a household.
it was a hybrid diesel Range Rover
You lack balance, you're instead telling the truth. JM tries to tell half truthes by balancing lies and truth.
DIRTY RAT USED CAR SALESMAN RAT RAT RAT RAT .
At the beginning you mention cities like London have air quality problems. Yet London's air is actually better then it's ever been, even in pre-industrial times.
Whilst I'm no greenie I do worry about the damage mining is doing and the handing over of the manufacturer of batteries.
In Hungary, there’s a petrol chain called MOL, which have their own EV charging network as well. Almost all of their charging stations are located at their own petrol stations, and you can pay with cash for EV charging. You buy a certain amount of electricity (let’s say 20kWh) and you receive a ticket with a code, which you can enter on the charger, and do your charging. Of course, it is really expensive that way, and you’re in V12 territory of money for fuel, but at least you have an option to pay with cash if you need for some reason.
As a retired milkman I think electric vehicles are in the past.
😂Tesla model Y will be the most sold carmodel
@mikafiltenborg7572 Dream on... EV's aren't popular, in the Netherlands only company leased cars are EV's because employees are forced into them. Further unnecessary subsidies are given... I don't want one.
@@shaking6360 you'd be surprised. Tesla model Y will be in the top 3 globally if it isn't number 1 this year. The other two are toyota Corolla and Toyota RAV4. You see model Ys everywhere but they've only been out about 18 months in the UK.
I worked as a milkman in the late eighties and not one millkfloat ever caught fire on its own.😂 we are going backwards not forwards.
😂
Choice is what we should have, not Draconian law saying you will have this, I will never buy an Electric car unless I am taxed off the road which is what I think will happen.
IF EV are so wonderful, why do they need to use force to implement ?
Seems to me the big EV market problem isn't even necessarily about the car.
The best market for EV vehicles is people living in cities where they do mostly short range trips, but majority of these people don't have off street parking for charging.
What do you mean by short range? Most EVs can easily cover many days of a commute of 50-100 kms. The typical suburbia use case.
@glenbruton79 And as I said, these people often live in housing without reliable parking. It's not necessarily about the car but people's ability to safely or affordable parking spaces with charging. Range isn't a problem.
@@OTPulse suburbia is not apartment living
@glenbruton79 what the he'll are you talking about? I never mentioned anything about suburban or apartment living.
@@OTPulse City living = apartment living
Great video.
Thanks for discussing this.
As someone who charges exclusively at home paying USA electric prices and driving 60 miles per day. EVs are great and save a ton of money. If I needed to use a charging station regularly, I wouldn't own one.
That is why legislators needs to stop the Ev mandates and eliminate carbon pricing. Evs are still infeasible for many of us and punitive legislation against us is unfair and should be unconstitutional.
Taking my money away doesn't make it easier for me to "go green" it makes me find ways to cheat the system and push for political changes.
They really don’t save that much in Fuel costs. A model 3 charged at home at 15 centers kWh is still 1/2 the fuel cost of driving a rav4 hybrid. Once you include the purchase price of most EVs it really isn’t cheaper.
@@PinkFZeppelin My Leaf has 65KWH capacity. Electricity is 0.08/KWH. I use 25-30% commuting 60 miles. Cost is $1.30-$1.60 per day. RAV4 hybrid is a better car IMO, but in terms of fuel cost, it wouldn't even come close.
@@stephankrasner .08/kwh is insanely cheap, nearing the cheapest in the country. The average in the USA is twice that. At 20kw to go 60 miles, which is only possible in ideal weather, you’d be at $3.2. Current national average gas price is $3.4/gal and it would take you 1.5 gallons to go 60 miles or $5.1. So the leaf would actually be a little more than half the fuel price of a rav4 hybrid even with at home charging with national averages. If charging costs more than 25 cents/kwh, which it is most charging stations, it’s more expensive to drive the leaf.
They just don’t work out to be all that much cheaper in fuel for most Americans.. Maybe save 1000 bucks a year in the most ideal of scenarios. Which often the increase in insurance wipes out and the total cost of ownership certainly does.
@@PinkFZeppelin 5.1 is 3x more than 1.6. I never claimed EVs were for everyone.
I have both an EV and a petrol car. The EV quite often costs 85p per KWH to charge. The petrol costs around £70 to fill from empty. The fact is on a long run my petrol car is cheaper to run by around 35% and it’s not that efficient. In the summer the range on the EV is about 280 miles and the winter that drops to around 220 miles. The EV is a great commuting car and daily driver, but if I want to travel a proper distance of say 300 miles or so I always take my petrol car.
Damn that's crazy pricing. My home charging for me was $.12/kwh, and superchargers $.20 to $.30 per kwh depending on the state in the US, making it a very economical choice either way, although a prius driven carefully (my dad gets ~60mpg in his) can get close so long as gasoline stays under $4/gallon. And while it was under that when my dad and I had that conversation, I haven't driven a gas car in 5 years so I've got no idea what they're looking like now.
Yeah sounds like an Audi getting charge at a BP station. Anyone that does this deserves to pay 85p per kWh.
Zoe 40 and a Kia ceed sw1.4 Turbo here. The Zoe does city all day long and recharges during evenings in our park space and the ceed does both city and long ranges.mi would say it's a great combo.
You can get charging for about 50p/kWh if you get a subscription plan - if you travel more often on rapid chargers it's cost effectively. But, I agree, it's too expensive (and it shouldn't be necessary to subscribe, though you can do them one month at a time, if you need.)
My latest car was less than £3,000 used, costs £0 to tax, about 10p/mile in diesel and does 750 miles on a full tank. I was looking for used EVs with the criteria of under £3,000 and able to do 200 miles (slightly under my longest semi-regular journey) and nothing came up. I'd definitely consider one as a commuter car but not until I've got a driveway and solar panels, otherwise the cost of electricity makes it uncompetitive.
I had a 2016 Audi A6 and I have to tell you I really loved that car. Because my son goes to a special needs school it was costing me about $1,000 a month in gas. Unfortunately because my wife had an accident my insurance for both my Audi and my wife Subaru was about $500 a month. I end up wrecking the car about a week before the insurance policy was set to renew. On the renewal they basically said that my insurance was going up to almost $1,000 a month . I canceled my policy and rented in electric car for $1,000 a month. My electric bill went up only $150 a month but I'm no longer having to spend $1,000 a month in gas, $1000 a month in Insurance and $500 a month for the car payment. My auto expenses went from 2K a month to just 1K and if I would have bought another gas car it would have been closer to 3K a month.
Decent work around 😮
On EVs if 40/50% of the country go EV. Every electricity substation in the country must be upgraded.
This will take 15 yearsat best in rural areas maybe never.
About 50% of tne population cannot charge from home?
Disabled drivers cannot get out of their cars to recharge in many places as tbeir is no space to get out of their vehicle.
Tax is the reason why their are so many big cars they get more tax back.
Finally affordability for 40% of the population
Thank you for a very interesting article.
In my country you can’t park a LPG car in an underground parking lot. It wouldn’t be so unusual for that to apply to other cars. I’m in my fourth year with an ev only, they are nice, silent, but as you said, charging prices made ev’s more expensive to charge up, or be way less fun or time efficient than petrol powered on long journeys. Why buy a 500 hp ev, if you have to do 90km on the motorway. Or buy a 500hp ev to do you boring daily commute. Ads may play a part, 0 to 100km videos might also be one. As cheap, daily commute things, I still think they beat any equivalent cars. But they should be small in size and battery, and we don’t really get any of these cars, no matter the powertrain. I posted a video praising EV’s years back. And I am seriously thinking on unlisting that one, most pro’s have gone. Well, Great video, cheers!
Yes it makes me smile that refuelling ICEs is banned in most carparks but they are putting in EV chargers.
I would drive a golf cart on city streets to do my shopping. I would drive my ICE car for longer trips. I would not rely on EV alone.
LPGs are banned from underground parking lots because propane is heavier than air and should they leak the gas will ultimately sink to the lowest level creating an explosive situation.
Meanwhile LNG CNG and Hydrogen fueled vehicles are not banned.
It seems like just another way of dividing people into those who can afford an EV, and those who are too poor to own such an expensive luxury item, therefore they are the primary cause of climate change and need to be treated as vermin.
German laws for garages are especially stupid.. you are not allowed to put anything besides a car into a garage- that includes for example your winter tires.. the same tires that may be on the car.. or even in the car.. but not besides the car.. obviously for private single home garages EVERYBODY is breaking the law- most people without knowing it. But when you have a bad neighbor.. shit is stupid. Did I mention you also are not allowed to wash your car in you own driveway in any capacity?
Smaller and more compact. Those words are so important.
If we are trying to reduce the impact of motoring on the planet, there is no sense at all in motor vehicles on the planet (however powered) why are they getting larger and larger? Apart from the energy used to move them from A-B, what about the massive amount of material in one of them.
Why not have vehicle road tax in bands according to mass? That would surely encourage people to think about their choices.
The biggest issue with EVs stems from government policy to ram these things into a market that needs more time to deal with the many issues raised in this video. Government mandates usually do more harm than good.
Yeah it really sucked when governments mandated that sulfur stopped being released in the air and acid rain stopped.
Government subsidies Petroleum extremely heavily. To the tune of hundreds of billions.
EVs are not being forced. But gas cars have had 50 years to be better. Mazda sky active is about 50% efficient. If it’s true. That’s awesome. But still too low.
Legacy auto isn’t getting better that are just lying instead on emissions standards. It’s cheaper.
VW lies.
Toyota lies.
BMW too
Mercedes blue diesel.
So yes. It’s time to force some change and. They have plenty of time to figure it out.
If they can’t. China will.
we would not see 300% grow rate last year in developing market if it just a matter of government policy, the fact that country that are not rich, where the people care more about cost and value are buying them, show their viablity. the strange reality is EV is very cheap to build, that is why Tesla can spend all that cash creating software and gimmick for their cars somce the EV itself really isn't worth much, if you stripe away the gimmick the cost value of EV is extremely attractive. the problem with EV is we have allot Tesla to set the standard of what EV should look like, and that was a mistake from the beginning, this isn't a competition between ICE and EV, it a competition between ICE and "driving an iphone". so I blame it on bad marketing trapping us building drivable iphone than EV.
@@lagrangewei Government policy is also pushing the Climate Crisis narrative so many folks believe that we have no option for ICE in the near fututre. Furthermore there is viture signaling of ... look at me saving the planet ... based on the false narrative of net zero carbon emission in building and running an EV.
The goal of the government is what we the people want. Remember politicians are the same as you or I.
It only costs a nominal amount of money to get into politics . The mayor of the richest city in my state cost me $2 to file.
Shake some hands knock on doors and you’re on your way!
I have owned four EV's in the past 40 years (long before Teslas). The main problem is the way they are forcing them upon us. The Greeenies seem hell bent on destroying our grid with ruinables, and our transportation with EV's.
I am driving 25yo car. With a petrol V8. This video motivated me to finally do the cat-delete mod.
Seriously, who does this comment/attitude help?
😂😂😂
@@stephencollins7714lighten up.
@@stephencollins7714 Actually I found it hilarious and it made my day just a bit brighter.
@@jeffreysalzman1497 there is my answer then 😂
One thing I would like to add on Repairability and Sustainability.. right now I'm driving a 22 year old vehicle and able to repair most of things at home, have access to tool rental if needed and order parts online or go to 1 of 3 stores around and buy them on the spot. As a sub-contractor driving this vehicle that is long time paid-off, helps me to keep the operating costs down and be able to get up and running fairly quickly in case of a breakdown. Especially, while interest rates and vehicle prices are at peak high and most working sectors are still recovering, this old vehicle is an asset to me. I can't see Electric vehicles giving me affordable vehicle / quick repairs / cheap repairs / high driving range in cold climate I'm operating.
Have you replaced the battery yet?
It's not an EV. flooded battery is definitely not the original long time ago :) @@billscott6040
All modern cars EV, ICE or hybrid are more difficult to repair (compared to one 22 years old) because they all have tons of computers, more advanced technology and safety equipment.
@@firstlast-lt6xp Yep! and with EV/Hybrid repair difficulty goes to a whole other level. Most American / Japanese ICE vehicles are decent when it comes to parts availability and have affordable work vehicle models. EV/Hybrid fits neither of those categories at this stage.
@@firstlast-lt6xp this trend to more complex ones is not sustainable one, and on top of it EV battery replacement cost would be more expensive than any today's car motor related repairs combined, so long term ICE so more cost effective
Early adopters were the only real winners here. Zero road tax (emissions tax) Free charging points with ease of access, in part due to no one else having an electric vehicle. The good times were bound to come to an end eventually. However, I can understand peoples concern and refusal to buying an EV, along with the bullying tactics being employed by the government and others to get people to buy a 2.5 ton limited ranged vehicle when their fully operational 10 year old 320d can get them to Scotland and back on one tank without stopping. Lets not forget the Governmental and EU push, back in the mid 2000's to get us all to stop driving petrol and change to Diesel, the new wonder fuel! I'm seeing a lot of similarities to what i' m seeing now. The electric market is pointed in the wrong direction. Big heavy units like the E-Tron and Taycan are ridiculous. Small city cars are perfect for electrification, this makes so much more sense.
Funny how EVs don't even touch the absurdity of carrying one's relatively small body weight along with 2 tons of metal and plastic, keeping the existing car culture predominantly intact, yet so many car people still passionate hate them. For smaller distances inside cities, things like simple e-scooters would actually make a lot more sense as a personal transportation device - although weather protection is an issue that needs better solutions.
Moving almost 2 tons of material for a mile, for the price of 0.13 GBP, is incredibly cheap if you think about it like that. Even 0.3 GBP is arguably very cheap for that huge amount of work. People are just used to not having to think at all about how excessive it is to move such a massive piece of material, because all associated cost was dumped into the environment. This attitude is becoming more and more untenable, until we don't find a new, virtually unlimited source of clean energy.
Fantastic video and you’ve obviously put in a great deal of time and effort.
Nice to see a TH-camr clarifying that like everything else in this world, car ownership/purchasing is a nuanced thing. Keep up the great work and Merry Christmas and Happy New Year 🎉
I am not anti EV but anything which is mandated by our politicians has me seriously worried. I have a nasty feeling we could be looking at another Dieselgate fiasco in the future but in EV form. There is also the nasty fact that EVs do burst in to flames (not frequently) and are very difficult to extinguish (which is the difference to ICE vehicles). If anyone wants an example of this, Google why Swindon Audi (UK) is currently closed and I mean the whole dealership! We need a more pragmatic approach to personal transport and agree that EVs are not the best option in all cases. Mind you, one thing needs to be made very clear - current EVs are not saving the planet. All one is doing by buying an EV is reducing your vehicle emissions to zero. The eco impact of EV (and all car) manufacturing is massive. The EV is just a wee bit less bad car. Also remember, the six largest container ships on the planet emit more CO2 than all the cars combined...
The most environmentally friendly car is the one you already own.
You're told c02 emissions from ICE engines are bad. Well I've a 10kg bottle of r404a refrigerant in the back of my van. Its c02 equivalent is 39.2TONS, or 275,000kms in a car or 916years of a 10w lightbulb.
I'll stick to my 23 year old 1jz Toyota Crown Athlete VX
@peterpan6821 depends what you mean when you say "environment" and I think that's part of the problem with the discourse with EVs. People say they are better or worse for the "environment" but what does this mean?
Saving the planet - putting aside the fact the planet itself will be fine, I think there's enough data to show EVs are less damaging than ICE but I accept its contested. Plus, the incredibly overlooked fact is getting people OUT of cars and walking, cycling or using public transport is actually best.
Air pollution - I think this is clear that EVs are better from this angle. As above, getting people into other modes of transport is unfortunately overlooked, as this would have the same result as well as reducing congestion for those still driving a car.
Noise pollution - much the same as above.
As someone whose job is related to EV sales, I am too often frustrated at the extreme points of view put forward on both sides of the EV debate. Nice to see someone trying to present a balanced view for once.
EVs suck lmao... Bad for environment, Slave labour to get minerals, Long charge times, Not cheaper to run tbh, When battery dies or gets worse in 5-10 years you need to fork out lots of $ for a new one 🤡
Great points. If you think an electric car is green you have to ignore everything about it's manufacturing, power source and it's disposal. I think most EV environmentalists just like the idea that they are saving the planet and don't really care to look into it any deeper than there is no smoke coming out of their nonexistent tail pipe.
In a german car magazine the drove 2 top-notch station wagons, a Nio EV and BMW diesel, from Frankfurt to Munich. Was hilarious.
I suppose they optimized the drive time of the EV for the usecase 100% full at start to 100% full at the destination as only that made it comparable regarding time, efficiency, costs etc.
That had the result that the optimum speed for the EV was 100 km/h. Otherwise the charging time would have eaten up the higher speed.
And the BMW idled along at that speed. hardly faster than trucks. With the result that the 2-ton giant ran with 50 mpg.
The Nio has in principle a great concept, a quick-change battery pack, where the "charge" (i.e. change to 100% takes 5-7 minutes. But there was only one functioning station available on the trip. (which is by no way an exotic tour, between two large business centers).
When EVs came into the discussion, my instant idea was "That can ONLY work, makes ONLY sense with standardized, changeable battery packs to save endless charging times".
But that would have required a common, coordinated approach, and that was apparently impossible. Classic "the first one shapes the infrastructure, and all must follow him, what solidifies your leading market position.
And the result of the trip was that under these conditions the diesel was about 1/3 cheaper. Probably not when they had not driven in tandem, then the diesel would have consumed more, going 130-170 as cruise speed. But for losing the 1/3 cost advantage he would been 1/3 faster.
The problem is that the UK government will only take a monotone strategy to any problem. In Japan the climate crisis is being met with green diesel, kei cars (660cc), road tax benefits for smaller engines and the best public transport network in the G20... and were it not for Fukishima thay'd be world leaders in pink (nuclear derived) hydrogen. Over here the government has banged out the idea that electric=good; combustion=bad and that's pretty much it. When you get policy that has no reason or nuance you get a backlash (in our case against EVs) that's just as unwilling to see compromise or reason.
Have to add....your closing remarks are spot on! Thanks again for the time and effort you obviously have invested here. Merry Christmas to you and yours 😊
On the subject of accessability ; a good friend who has had a stroke is perfectly able to drive but cannot deal with apps or read long instructions on a screen. How will he ever charge a car?
Your point near the end of the video of horses for courses is correct. That's why this month we bought a good used 2013 Nissan leaf. Using our hydro it's slashed our motive cost by over 85% from fuel in our city use. We used to spend $100 a week on in city fuel. This car will with all of its costs and limitations pay for itself within a year.
I think people wouldn't be so against EVs if we were allowed a more natural transition towards them and not being pushed into it by the powers that be before we feel ready.
However, when it comes to them catching fire - I've actually seen it myself. When I was driving through France towards the end of October, I was heading North on the Autoroute somewhere near Dijon when I could see smoke on the horizon. The source of the smoke turned out to be one of three car transporters pulled over on the hard shoulder on the oncoming side. On the back of said transporters were brand new Hyundai Ioniq5 EVs, still in their shrink wrap from the factory, one of which (on the upper tier of the middle of the three trucks) was happily blazing away. moments later about seven fire engines appeared. I'm just grateful I was going the other direction and not caught in the ensuing traffic jam on the southbound carriageway. I'm upset I was unable to get a picture of this, because every time I have mentioned this on social media or an internet forum I've been dogpiled by pro-EV people and accused of lying.
The thing is that without a strong incentives toward EV, oil companies lobbying runs amok.
It's like the pain of the blood flowing back to a limb after it was starved from blood flow for too long. It sucks but it is necessary.
That also apply to the phasing our of car dominance in cities, it's a temporary pain that will be forgotten in a generation (30 years) and we will be better for it.
If makers are legislated to make EVs they cannot wait for people to be ready to buy one in their own time. They have to be actively marketed to. In the UK the push back of the law change from 2030 to 2035 has had an impact, as manufacturers had geared up for the 2030 change - a person could be mistaken for thinking from car ads that only EVs are available now. Why? Because the supply is somewhat there but reciprocal demand isn’t. It would be nice for it to be a free change if and when people want to make the change to EVs, but other effects on the market mean there feels this change is perhaps being pushed upon customers.
I think did see that fire.. All fuel types catch fire.. Fortunately not often 🤞
People are against evs but sales are up 130% yoy while all others are declining this is the valley of death we are already in it.
We don't make a big deal about Ferraris and Lamborghinis and yet they have more chances to burn down to the ground than EVs. The issue is more with the training of the firefighters that are not used to this kind of fire.
An absolute fantastic point made re. disabled accessibility of public charging. Something which has been missed and terrible oversight, one I've never seen discussed before, no matter the platform. A brilliant and balanced discussion - too rare in this sphere. Only yourself and Jonny Smith who have been able to do this consistently, to my mind. Love your work mate.
They don't want anyone except the rich driving, disabled or not.
Genuine question, how are motorists with limited mobility catered for today, is it a case of potentially going backwards with EV charging of failing to move forwards (neither acceptable of course)?
Agreed. Fantastic to see that assessment. The handicapped get a lot of lip service while their needs get brushed aside.
@@stephencollins7714 In America the gas station provides the service, which often falls on the clerk’s shoulders. It’s a clunky arrangement, but it works.
ULEZ in London. It was expensive enough for me to sell my old Range Rover and use public transport and Zipcar instead. My neighbour replaced one of his cars and got rid of the other one.
hard to believe diesel can cause that damage to the car park
On the topic of fires, something I've been learning more about as I work in the marine sector and fires on boats are quite a big topic. A sprinkler system in a multi storey car park might not put out an electric car fire, but by cooling the surrounding area and cars, a technique called boundary cooling it can vastly slow down the spread of a fire, in most cases containing it to just one area. Also, on a recent course with Northumberland Fire Service, they informed me of a new piece of kit being trialed that is like a giant whoopee cushion. It is pushed under the car and then with compressed air forces spikes up into the battery pack. It then fills the battery pack with an extinguishant that encases the cells and turns into a hard crust, stopping the chain reaction of each cell setting fire to the next. This is an example of technology advancing to meet the needs that arise alongside new technology. So rest assured, the problems relating to fire are being tackled with successful results.
I recommend you take some time in picture using such a device to put out a fire, and imagine being one of the firemen who has to do that, where in the past they just put foam on the fire. and, the vast majority don’t have that equipment nor training to use it. all of that costs money that is not budgeted. so yes, but it will never be the same: normalizing EV fires is the most likely way forward.
@@JoeOvercoat I was on the course because I do use the equipment. It's far easier to use than a hose and foam, you also don't need to get as close to a regular car fire as you just slide it under the car. A normal car fire you have to get close and get the bonnet or doors open to get the foam on the fire. This just slides under the car and the water pressure drives the spikes up into the battery. It is far easier and quicker to use than foam. Also they are budgeted for, hence why they're being trialed and bought, it's not just a random firefighter going out and buying one.
@@thomasclougher2281 and so now we need 16 000 liters of brine solution in every fire truck to put out an EV? I have put out a petrol car fire with a 3kg powder extinguisher, calmed the family, got my tools out and fixed the problem. Then got back in my car and drove off.
@@seanworkman431 brine solution? I don't know where you've got that from. I'm not arguing or sharing an opinion here. I'm just relaying facts that the fire service have access to and are testing equipment that fits on their truck and allows them to put out an EV fire with similar ease to a normal car fire.
Unless you mean in relation to the boundary cooling, in which case I meant that in support of car parks having a proper sprinkler or hi-fog system installed, where even if you can't put out an EV fire, it would help massively in limiting the spread of the fire. Obviously a fire truck would tap into a nearby hydrant if it was at a multi-storey car park. Even one which doesn't have a sprinkler system is almost guaranteed to at least have a fire hydrant.
@@thomasclougher2281 have you done any fire training? Smoke is hot and thus rises, meaning all the fire exits would be at risk and breathing apparatus required but the safety of the tenents would be of priority.
An EV fire is much hotter than a regular vehicle fire and if thermal runaway occurs then it creates it's own fire triangle and will just burn no matter what.
A brine solution is just heavily salted water that will remain liquid even below zero degrees and has been used in experimental situations and works (sort of) but having the equipment to do that is going to be a costly exercise.
I would suggest 'auto expert john cadogan' for further insist into this electrical madness.
I agree with you on charging. We live in Ireland, and took our EV to the UK, and charging was not as straightforward as it should have been. I'm not really worried about the cost of charging, because we do 99% of our charging at home. But a lot of chargers that had contactless payment would not accept our foreign cards. It should be possible to have a system where you sign up to a payment company and register your car, then when you plug in your car it should be able to recognise your car, know who your payment company is, and verify you haven't got a huge unpaid bill, and start charging. I shouldn't need contactless, or cards, or apps. Plugging in your car is all that should be needed to initiate the process.
Having said that, I was staying an Eco-hotel in the middle of Ireland, and they had a charger I could plug into, which charged off the solar panels on their roof, and when it was finished, they told me how much KWh it had taken, and I could have paid cash (although I actually paid by bank transfer). It was not a fast charge, but as I was parked outside all day, it didn't really matter.
You don't see an issue with being identified and thus potentially declined from the ability to buy potentially emergency power for your car? *facepalm. How far we have fallen. Advocating KYC for filling up your car. Amazing.
So you want a fascist state in control of banking so you can drive an electric car around.. crazy
Any other car except Tesla is a real nightmare to charge on the motorway. The Tesla supercharging experience, and the wretched, crippled, broken state of every other charging network in the U.K. makes Tesla the only EV you should consider in the U.K.
Thats how chargers work in Finland. They have their own apps so doesnt matter what country youre from or your card.
A petrol-head speaks on EV topics - that was risky in itself Jay 🤣 but your efforts to retain balance paid off well. Really appreciate your time spent researching and compiling this, and you've given us plenty to think about, particularly the human side. My EV truth is, they're not for everyone, just like any other type of car. As you said, buy the car that works for you. I'll keep doing that and not worry too much about what everybody else is doing.
EV is good for short trips where a ICE car would not get to operating temperature and would result in fuel dilution and premature wear. Why not have multiple cars in the collection?
he did say that he has owned both. does that not count in your book?
It’s a bit difficult to keep doing what works for you when government policies force you to use EVs
@@CircumcisedUnicorn true
The real truth is that unless you drive 400 miles a day an EV will suit you. Autistic men try every single day to convince themselves that they hate EVs but really they know they are the future.
28:11 Part of the problem of the expensive insurance stories comes from the fact, that many EVs have lots of power. Tesla Model 3 starts at 257 hp. A comparable sized car will have around 100-150 hp.
Then add stories from people for whom the premium changes from £500 on reneval £5000+. Newspapers are full of these stories, but hardly anyone points out, that in the end the owner changed the insurrance and got similar price to what they were paying before.
I had a Zoe from 2017 to 2020. So cheap to run in the days of free chargers. Devon and back from Farnborough in a day for £5. I enjoyed the planning of journeys and didn't resent the extra time but in reality I am a typical nerdy guy and not someone who just wants to get around. Excellent point about cash and also applies to parking in places where the only realistic way to park is an app.
As it stands currently, EVs are only for the wealthy and/or those people who have 1 or 2 other ICE cars and a lot of leisure time to deal with the foundational flaws of support infrastructure.
LET'S HAVE A RACE: Starting in Boston and ending in San Francisco. 1 person drives it by EV, the other person buys tickets on Amtrak. I wonder who arrives more quickly?
Also depends in the size of your country. The US is much more infrastructure dependant due to its size, while people in smaller countries will only need infrastructure maybe a few times a year at most
Brilliant analysis!
After listening to the full explanation I totally agree with all the aspects of this situation.
Being in France, the situation is exactly the same.
Thank you for your clear expose.
i drive a 43 year old car .
raised 2 children with it
upgraded the engine to a catalyst one back at 1990.
car has A/C , power windows /locks and ABS
1 year ago i installed the latest infotainment system .
car has also leather interior.
im upgrading the car along the way depending the needs .
yes im an automotive technician and the car is a humble toyota ke70 1980 model
155 hp to the rear wheels ,big brakes ,lsd diff ,
no rust as this car is very well taken care off .
passes mot every 2 years with 0 issues and 0 co /hhc emissions
i also urge my clients to do the same with their cars and they are very happy with my advice .
and generally thats my way of life .
its called circular economy
you should try it
please tell me am i eco friendly or not ?
I fully believe this is one of the best ways to offset the environmental impact of manufacturing new vehicles. Buy, maintain, modernize an existing vehicle instead of manufacturing a new one.
The reality is this is not practical for everyone. Most people simply don't have the means to do that. Engines go out, transmissions die, accidents happen. Cars also rust, bushings go out, parts become unavailable. Recycling and reusing and extending your 1 product as long as possible is helpful yes, but it's not practical and realistic for the majority. @@aluminumfalcon552
Good luck fining a modern toyota with the same "endurance"...
For the last 20 year they've quite steadily gone completely downhill. Designing and optimizing every part, NOT for longevity and reliability but strongly and solely for... planned obsolescence. It needs to just barely last the warranty period... given it's included in one of the few things the warranty actually covers.
Toyota is NOT the same company it used to be. Now they just exploit their customers with shady practices and shameless scams. How do you think can a company that sells cars at a loss or an industry average 1.6% margins... bring in billions of profits every year?
MOT tests are undertaken every year, not 2 years.
I think there is already a perfectly consistent situation regarding charging - both in terms difficulty and price. There are two distinct environments. At home, and away from home. If you can charge at home on your drive then it’s easy and very cheap. OVO Charge Anytime is 7p per KWh. About 2 to 3p per mile for my lovely Enyaq. That’s about 1/5th the price per mile than for petrol in my Suzuki Alto 1.0. Most people work within 20 miles of home and would, during their average year, pretty rarely need to charge away from home so that’s just fine. Charging away from home is always too expensive and difficult in my opinion. There are thus ‘haves’ and ‘have nots’ both in terms of owning a suitable property for an EV (this affects a lot of people) and having a suitable annual usage pattern (this affects a comparatively small number of people, far fewer than would have anxiety about it if they actually sat down and worked out what their ‘real life’ usage was). I do pretty much cry though, the odd couple of times a year I have to fast charge for 75p per KW/h or whatever away from home.
its nice if you can, the future though is uncertain.
namely its the throughput(scale), the electric cables and substations may not support more than 3-5 ev-s charging at once, at a reasonable time.
ie the substation that enabled you to charge your car tops overnight, may do so for within a week or more for that 3-5 evs.
and that is at really small scale.
there are many things i see that just don't make these things just replace the old overnight.
indeed the *Green* tech all is bonkers for me at this- produce more to pollute less
a rather paradoxical way to *pollute less*.
its just another marketing gimmick
Because now we need to rebuild not only the cities or the many more powerplants we'll need but also the whole grid, while we'll need oil to make all of the other things well need for the roads, plastics and anything else made from oil, including the oils and other fluids inside an ev
solar and wind.... don't work very often while you're home, not to mention the upfront cost and oh more pollution.
another EV for your home?, more more more
@@xerr0n reading your comment made me want to buy an EV
@@whyamiwastingmytimeonthis have fun
@@xerr0n You can charge from regular power outlet which will draw around 2-3 kW, that gives you 100-200 km of range overnight which is more than enough for most people. It draws as much as a water heater so no problems there. In future people will be able to charge at work when solar is producing.
@@pepegano_3578
uhuh?
do you have two boilers at home, how about 3 or 4?
what's your amperage?
1 3kW boiler takes 12,5 Amps, at 240V.
now multiply it lets say with 3 (two cars, one boiler).
37,5 Amps, that's how much you'll need in the future, for a *single* household.
how many households are behind your substation? how much current can it withstand before overheating and damaging itself?
this is the problem well start out with immediately and it compounds.
solar at work? a rather nice expectation, would you have it at say 50% pay cut.
and if the business doesn't have the place to install them what then?
f-ing employees, money falls from the sky.
going back to it...
replacing a few substations here and there will not make much of a difference, at first, yet the energy company will need to recoup the loss somehow, and if the demand sharply increases, then the cost for your cheap electricity will sharply rise as well.
and that's the substations, the next problem would be the power plants, we don't have enough of them, solar and wind doesn't cut it as they are unreliable and intermittent at best, and then the cables to push through all that current.
whether you like it or not, you are advocating for more pollution and more cost one way or another.
Very well made points here, and rather comprehensive. The ones slightly missing or understated: car manufacturing economics will drive everything. The battery price S curve is real (downwards). Ev's are nowhere near its price and technical evolution, so I expect prices to drop steadily and most people choose with their wallets. In 2030 I think very very few people will want to buy something else just because of the price points, and the regulation 2030/2035 are moot points.
And I suspect the residual value of ICE cars will continue to fall as norms shift and restrictions on emissions in urban areas become stricter. No-one wants to be holding the unwanted asset when the music stops.
@@furry_homunculus That's what competition is for. It's not a cartel. Chinese car-makers will steal all their customers if they don't remain competitive. The main trick to making more money has sadly been the concentration on larger vehicles, which is bad for both the planet and people on foot/bikes, never mind people who just need a small, cheap car to get about. Again the Asian manufacturers will fill that gap if legacy manufacturers don't. So I'm reasonably confident that we'll see cheaper vehicles as battery prices drop, and especially when people get used to the idea that they don't need a 300 mile car if there are enough chargers, so they can have a 40kWh battery, not an 80kWh one.
Petrol cars are banned in the EU by 2030 lol
Thanks for your point of view, balanced and informative. On the point of disabled people using and navigating an EV world there will be very soon EV charging options that just require driving onto a wireless mat to charge. When robotaxies become a thing this will be essential as a car will not be able to plug itself into a conventional charger of today. In fact in the not too distant future a disabled person can just hail a robotaxi and tell it where to go. No charging, no parking no ownership required.
Cars should not be a solution for commute. For people with small income public transport is the most important thing. The government should leave cars alone and focus all their efforts on improving public transport and bicycle infrastructure.
Remember; the ride time by car is almost always the same as the ride time using the fastest alternate mode of transport.
I'm a fan of EVs and have been EV only for over 6 years now.
I have to say, this is possibly one of the most balanced bits I've seen on all the issues.
Good job. :)
Thanks! It's important to me to be balanced
Really interesting and well researched video Jay, as a petrolhead I have been following you for some time and like what you do. I am about to get myself a small car, have thought about an EV, but can’t bring myself to buy a vehicle which needs me to sit for a long time waiting for it to refuel on a journey-so I am going to buy a small petrol car. Like most people the majority of the driving is within a 50 mile radius of my home-but my daughter and grandchildren are 200 miles away and I often go there and back in a day. I can do this journey very easily in a small petrol car without having to stop for fuel and don’t see any reason to change my habits. Being 75 years old I think petrol cars will see my driving life out so don’t need to worry about being forced into an EV.
@@K777John Do you do the long journey without stopping for a pee/coffee etc? Most modern EVs will take on a substantial amount of charge in a 15min pee stop.
Depending on how often you do long journeys, you can decide if its worth losing out on the EV benefits the rest of the time. Other reasons NOT to go EV would be if you couldn't charge at home, purchase price was prohibitive or insurance quotes were silly.
Main reasons to consider the EV is lower running costs & maintenance, better driving experience (that's obviously subjective but having owned both, I'd never go back to ICE) and waking up to a full "tank" every morning. I also think depreciation on EVs is going to be far less than ICE vehicles. It doesn't appear that way currently when you look at things like the Audi etron gt etc. Teslas depreciation is solely linked to the fact they've dropped the sticker price of new vehicles massively. I think EV adoption is at the start of an S-curve and will grow exponentially. Anyone saying EVs are a fad and won't take off etc sound like the same people who said that horseless carriages would never take off.
I'd suggest test-driving some EVs. If you don't like driving them then anything else is irrelevant. Also, consider leasing the EV. Takes away any worries of ownership if your annual mileage isn't overly high. I lease a Kia E-niro 64kw for £250 a month currently.
@@airchie2 You are right in many ways, and I drive an EV myself, as does my wife, for many years now. But the truth is, there are no EVs available that fit his bill. Namely being small, affordable and doing a 400 mile roundtrip in a day. That's realistically at least 7 to 9 hours of driving. I have a 77kWh Ioniq 5. With that he could do the roundtrip with three 10-15 minutes stops, which is sensible, but this car is neither small nor inexpensive. An early like 2019 64kWh Kona would be somewhat smallish and also not overly expensive, plus it's quite straight forward and easy to understand and a fairly good EV overall. But even tho it can also do 400 miles with 3 stops, those stops are more than 30 minutes each. And those stops are not conveniently spaced. On his way there, he'd have to stop for half an hour, only half an hour or so away from his destination. Then on the way back he'd have the two stops spaced more conveniently, but grand total he'd spend one and a halve to two hours extra for the roundtrip. And the Kona isn't actually a small car, it's just not very spacious. It's just too much compromise, IMO, for the task at hand. More affordable, smaller cars with USABLE range aproaching 200 miles and fast enough charging are coming, such as the new offerings from Citroën (EC3) or Renault (R5), but right now there's nothing available that makes sense for him.
@@adrianguggisberg3656 ah yes the 60 000$ battery. future
The cashless thing is indeed an issue, because this means you can't charge when the payment system has some downtime.
Cash is one of the most important and fundamental forms of redundancy for any economic system.
We don't necessarily need those chargers to be manned, just a slot to put in the cash goes a long way.
Go try to pay cash for anything when the power is out anywhere SMDH.
@@4literv6 how is it gonna charge if power is off? it would be good not to be billed for something that has no power...LOL
Also cashless puts thumb on the scale for poor, who more frequently pay in cash for various reasons including a poorer credit rating.
Not to mention the Pandoras box it opens to potentially tracking driving usage for a future carbon footprint score, since we all know that going EV at best is going to only solve between 5 to 12% of the overblown global carbon emissions problem, depending on global uptake of EVs and their power sources.
@@6Sparx9 you can use debit cards too lol. boomer issues
yeah. no man. you know i didn't even think about how bad of an issue no cash option is. you don't have full control over you money with a card. and thats all needs said if you ask me.
pull up to charge up to find out there is some kind of bogus bs to do or extra to pay. at only 5 miles of range left for example....you have to pay what ever it cost. and it could cost twice as much as other options. can just put 5 bux in to hold you over til a better charge option.
no. nope. i don't the sound of no cash option man. and thats not touching how much control some one else has over you. i've heard, like you all very likely have heard of cases where people get the bank account blocked for some political bs policy thats tide in with your bank and suddenly some mother f'r has you by the balls...
I NEVER WILL LET GO OF CASH OPTION.
and the way its looking, sooner or later, we are gonna face out got dam government telling us how many f'ing miles we are allowed to drive, weather its for green bs reasoning or you get charged more per mile of charge after you exceeded you alotted miles given by the state. nope. this factor is my final nail in the coffin for an EV until i know for sure i can do cash when i need to....at any and all stations...not just this one here and there. and 80% of them all require you digital foot print. yeah speaking of such....what if you got aminor traffic violation pending in another state. like busting the speed limit on a road trip, fined for going over 12 mph and you need to fix that speed ticket with a state that is no where near you...click..and suddenly you can't get no charge until you paid that ticket off 3 states away. that the app your car requires to charge with is also diabled so you can't charge the got dam thing even at home or at a friends place or what not?? nope. im not liking this one bit now that im putting thought into this single factor.
let alone the battery question marks yet to be answered. like...."am i gonna be the unlucky poor bastard that ends up dealing with a mega fkt battery fire???" burning my got dam house down or even worse. it catching fire mid night, catching god knows what else and who else others property/vehicle.garage/house...ect ect...on fire too. burning my dam car up in a blaze was the least of my problems when considering just how destructive them crazy fires get...that you basically CAN'T put out. and you can't really move yours or your neighbors f'ing house out of the blazes way. now can ya?? lol
It’s like Schmeee had an older brother without a speech impediment
it might have been said already so sorry if it as, but as a disabled driver, the key things that put me off EV's (apart from the range and lack of infrastructure is the simple fact that the public charging points are, as you rightly pointed out (and I thank you for it) inaccessible... but more to the point, the paypoints, cables and adapter connectors are ALL higher than a wheelchair user can actually reach and therefor reasonably use!
There's a growing affliction called EV Anxiety. Not everyone lives in a city. Having your life swinging (be it a bushfire or physical injury etc) on a notoriously unreliable power grid or dodgy internet is the stuff of nightmares. EV's undoubtedly great for some, myopic to think great for all.
Remember that gas and diesel pumps require electricity. So no power for ev cars is the same as no power foe ice cars.
@@Tom55data Aside from the fact pumps often have a manual backup, you’re just deliberately missing the point.
@@gregc9344 no, I have never seen a petrol station with a manual pump, it is well known in national disasters that all fuel is a problem. Ev cars neither solve the problem or make the problem worse for transport. They do provide a house backup system like a petrol generator.
@@Tom55data If I lived in an alternate universe where I had an EV AND the option to charge at home and....I get home late, plug it in to charge it for my next work day that starts on the road, being a freelancer.... only to realize when I get up a couple hours later that there was a 4-5hrs power outage in my street or neighbourhood - which happens about 2-3 times a year and I only have 50km left to drive electronically. Or less. Are you really going to compare this "slight" inconvenience 1:1 to one gas station being out of power and just driving to the next one and top off your tank in 5 minute for another 600-800km depending on what car you drive? The points people think they can make are just ridiculous.
Do you expect people to get up in the middle of the night and check for power outages? Do you expect them to compensate for this risk and sleep less so they can drive to another neighbourhood and charge up and THEN go to work if they have to.
@@caleidoo nothing would convince you of anything so I won't waste my time, enjoy your life and you world.
You have a lot of valid points and your conclusion is mine too.. we were looking into getting an EV as our 15yo diesel is getting up in age and distance and wanted to do research in case we need to get a newer car. For a brand new EV the prices and interest rates are way to high. Also, the trend for automakers to pull standard features or one time purchse options out and make them subscriptions based only. GM announced they will pull Carplay and AA out for their own "service". But one thing that we learned from the dealers is there is general strain on the electrical grid and there is no plan to upgrade at the moment. Also, there is the high possibility that we can not store in the garage as the potential for a fire will cause more damage than ICE. Then I talked to my local garage who services my car and they are looking into fixing EV but it will not be easy. Like you said, they will need to upgrade their fire suppression system. But in some cases they might need to pay addition licences fees to the manufacture to fix them and gain access to diagnoitic tools. The lack of garages that can fix ev is partly a problem of the manufactures to contain the money flow. so it looks like we may go for a used diesel for now as like you said, it fits ours needs. for local stuff, we mainly use the bike anyways.
on the ev fire in luton, i am sketpical that it was a diesel, if you look a the photo of the offending car, the location of the flames coming out, and the intensity, it does seem to the a Land Rover hybrid. which had(s) issue the battery catching fire. will this keep me from buying en EV, no, but it is something to considering in the long run for everyone on how we use this technology in the future. for the insurance, please see this Guardian article on insurance premiums going up, www.theguardian.com/money/2023/sep/30/the-quotes-were-5000-or-more-electric-vehicle-owners-face-soaring-insurance-costs, I was shocked by the rate increase here. but like you said, some of these extreme videos on both sides leave out a lot of critical information that does not support their view. I am in the middle, I want an EV but right now it does not fit my needs.
That thumbnail and title are hilarious 😂 well done to you sir (or whoever created it for you)
I am pretty sure I will keep my after-midlife crisis toy, a (for you Vauxhall) Opel Calibra V6 as SSWD (summer, sun, warm, dry) driver. Luckily the body is made in Finland, those are said to rust way less.
I hink as the fewest other owners would drive a 30-year old 170 hp-car with cat with 24mpg. And I am not slow as such, but go more for momentum speed up downward to have this energy in addition to use it on the next hill.
So I care that the energy invested in making the car is spread over a longer time (more efficient), and keep others from using the car inefficient.
I drove Teslas for a chauffeur business a few years back… the one thing I didn’t like (other than build quality) was the lack of driver involvement in the actual driving…. Dull.
Here in Australia a few weeks ago one of our telcos had a software glitch that put their whole system offline for c 10 hrs….. phones didn’t work, broadband didn’t work…. Causing business not being able to transact….. and Tesla owners couldn’t access their cars by app ( unless they had the card/ key).
The luton airport issue was more highlighting how fires burn when EVs are present…. Thermal run away is a whole new issue
Luton had nothing to do with EVs. Had a very similar fire in Liverpool a few years ago (pre EV) also Range Rover.
Not just Range Rovers, you want a car that shouldn't be allowed in a multi-storey car park it's a diesel Opel Zafira (Cork/Stavanger).
@@grahamleiper1538 Of course EV's were a factor in the Luton fire, even if they were not the cause.
@@zm321 why do you think that? Carbon copy of the Liverpool fire from a few years earlier. Very few EVs then.
@@grahamleiper1538 Seriously?? The Liverpool fire was 6 years ago! It's a safe bet that there would not have been anywhere near the % of EV's in that fire as there would have been at Luton, simply because there are that many more EV's around now. So how on earth was Luton a 'carbon copy' of Liverpool???
@@zm321 exactly, and it was virtually identical.
You have loads of people saying "we didn't have fires like that before, must have been EVs" when we had a virtually identical fire without EVs.
It was even started by a Range Rover.
If you don't have your own driveway to charge your car, you will have to spend at least one hour a week charging. Do you have that time? That's the biggest problem with EVs - and that's down to infrastructure.
Make a normal-sized hybrid car. Give it a 150bhp engine. Give it an electric range of 40 miles.
Most people will use electric most of the time. Everyone can still get about without wasting their time charging. Job done.
Nio have the answer with 5 min battery swap technology, what’s needed is the politicians to standardise battery’s to a common form factor, like they did with usb c
this is the solution. another solution is to focus a lot of R&D on affordable range extender hybrids
If a person can't charge at home they are effectively being written out of personal motorised transport.
I was charging today as I shopped , this will be the standard , you'll charge whilst doing something , whether thats working , shopping , watching a film , at the gym etc so actually Evs will be more convienent than fossil fuel car .
@@davefitzpatrick4841 And for the many, many people who don't spend hours doing those things?
Also, we'll need a hell of a lot more chargers. Is that really going to happen? Or will the government do very little because the relatively wealthy can charge at home, and the relatively poor... well, the governments just don't care about them.
The idea that governments sort things out for us is not borne out by reality.
Candid, up front, honest and providing many valid angles on an issue that seems to be becoming more and more fragmented in terms of real life information. Bravo. I have owned an EV for almost five years now and love it but I do understand that the benefits and downsides will vary wildly depending on one's own situation, finances etc... Well done.
High-Voltages needs skills and tools to handle them well.
On top of that, there are not enough technicians to test and
fix both mechanical and electricals.
I don’t know for sure but the Fire in the Range Rover at Luton appears to be where the hybrid battery would be, I’m a combustion engineer and a diesel fire produces loads of black smoke, I haven’t seen a full explanation from the authorities of what happened so that will just fuel speculation
This could be easily resolved by the authorities releasing the vehicle registration of the car. The silence of the powers that be leads people to jump to their own conclusions.
There is a reason the registration hasn't been released and its not to protect the general public
User @f-u-nkyf-u-ntime has a comment that says; "I think there's actual footage of the offending vehicle on fire. A hybrid Range Rover. The flames were from the area of the battery, were horizontal and orange/white. There were reports that the owner drove into the structure with the car on fire, hence the footage, and that he emptied a fire extinguisher trying to put it out. To no avail."
@@iliyakuryakin4671Unfortunately if they release the registration and it was a hybrid then everyone will jump on the “yeah - it was the battery”. I think they want to actually do an investigation and then write a report and then release it with the evidence. It *may* have been a battery fire. It *may* have been a diesel fire. I’d like to see the evidence first. The video that’s circulating doesn’t show anything - the fire is already well under way with multiple vehicles on fire, hence you cannot tell anything from it. Hence I will wait for the report before forming any opinion.
I've seen other videos and sources say it was E10 EFL - A diesel only Range Rover.
All other points aside - I've used an EV now and then and I've never been able to charge one using a public socket.
I've used Windows for 25 years, I consider myself an advanced user.
I have decent skills in basic programming languages (C#, JS, Python).
I know how to program a VCR.
I build cars and I'm comfortable using advanced diagnostic tools.
Oh -- and I've refueled all sorts of vehicles from basic diesel/petrol to a variety of LPG and E85 mixtures.
But when it comes to choosing the correct charging app from 25 charging apps and trying to make it work outside in the rain at whatever random charging station -- I simply can not figure it out.
Bad computer programmers (or Appists or whatever they are called these days) suffer no consequences.
Then why not start a business that solves this dilemma? Apparently a million users in the UK are managing to charge their cars...
I own an EV in the EU and I have one app, which activates almost every single public charger available with an RFID token. No contactless payments, no signal needed, only once in 3yrs found a charger that was broken. Maybe the UK is just way behind...
You are so right, here the.charging situation is a complete mess!
Time to come over to the light side and start using Linux, basically everything I've needed apart from specialised CAD software (which are getting Linux builds as of late anyway) have worked flawlessly OOTB. Companies like Adobe or Nvidia are knobs about it though. Adobe stuff already functions far better on Mac OS, which a unix based system like Linux, yet they won't make Linux builds even though it would be a laughably small amount of work on top of their existing Mac builds. Nvidia just can't be arsed to make decent drivers that aren't based on things they got rid of after Windows 7 era generations, not to mention they like to break all the time.
Seriously though, I don't get why the EU or similar hasn't yet made a unified system for those charging stations. You don't need 30 different apps for that sort of thing, one app/website that gives you the info you need and aggregates all of the information into one place, regardless of what charging station it is, not only makes more sense from a basic logic standpoint, but it would be a major benefit to those who need/want that information. Hell, why not combine that with stuff for normal petrol stations as well? One unified app that regardless of what you drive, would give you charging/refuelling information on the go with minimal hassle. If it were mandatory to upload basic info about your charging/fuel station to a service like that, it would be much harder to price gouge people as well.
Jay, just buy a KIA, you get a KIA RFID card. Pretty much any brand of charger you just rock up tap the card and it works. I've never had a problem, you all get a discount on the sometimes expensive public rates.
I still don't get Windows though. It's a mystery to me...
There are some excellent points in this video. A well rounded view on the topic. I work in a used car dealership in South Wales, about 12 months ago, we started selling EVs and when it began, we started selling everything, including the Model 3. Fast Forward 12 months and we haven't sound an EVs within the last few months. I think people are scared to convert over for different reasons.
Also the effect of rapid price cuts on the used market must be pretty chilling
Excellent callouts!
- We have finally recognized accessibility as a fundamental right, but new markets so often leave that for last, and then only under pressure. This is a solvable problem, and time to solve it is NOW, getting in front of socioindustrial momentum to make sure all people have access, much as we have done with petrol services.
- The "cashless revolution" continues to marginalize many populations, from the unbanked to the elderly. EV charging is just one impacted market, but current government green initiatives, (sometimes) properly answering the urgency of climate change, must keep these needs in mind. Incentives need to encourage not just a growing market, but a market that protects the needs of the broader population.
- Public transit and multimodal transport are often the unspoken partners in this conversation. For flexibility and accessibility. We need to balance the drive for most-economically-efficient solutions with the need for efficiencies in public mobility and environmental areas. "Profits before people" leaves everyone poorer.
- The Chinese EV battery swap model seems so so attractive as an answer to at least some of these problems.
I like the idea of posting prices on signage like gas stations. On the other hand the only time I’ve ever paid cash for gas is when pay at pump didn’t work for some reason.