Almost Brilliant: Why Porsche's New 718 Cayman GTS 4.0L is Not Good Enough
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 มี.ค. 2021
- In today's video we are looking at the newly announced Porsche Cayman 718 GTS 4L - and seeing why, in my eyes, it falls some way short of the best of its predecessors. A great car, with many redeeming qualities, but just not brilliant.
#Porsche #Cayman #GTS4L
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The Cayman GTS / GT4 have displaced the 911 as a purist sports car with manual gearbox and a naturally aspirated engine, I don’t need a coupe with useless backseats. This Cayman mid engine setup is the ultimate sports car coming from Porsche, this not about speed rather a sports car drive.
Hmmm, will petrolheads ever move away from being so purists. If you’re requirements for a “true sports car” are so specific, (manual box, N/A engine) you’re gonna have fewer and fewer options going forward and then you’re gonna make yourself miserable, by complaining manufacturers are doing it wrong and climate change has spoiled the car enthusiast world and blah blah blah.... Come on man, you have to give other models a chance and attempt to embrace turbo engines and autos. Like Porsche’s PDK, which I’ve heard is excellent. What sports car do you drive at the minute/have owned in the past?
@@magnustan841 you mean there will be fewer fewer “new car” options going forward. All these current models and those that will continue to be built until 2030 or whatever cut off point petrol car sales will be banned will all become future classics and be around for decades to come just like their classic predecessors are now. Also consider not every country has planned to ban petrol car sales so its possible petrol car production will continue for those markets.
@@nattcharles Hmm, maybe in less developed countries they will still allow the sale of ICE cars, because they don’t have the money to set up and maintain EV infrastructure. But what about the enthusiast? Do you see purists mindsets like yours changing? Will the desire for manual box / N/A engine combo continue to burn deeply? I mean not that many cars offer that nowadays and by now, I’m sure turbo engines have been proven for driving performance and excitement.
Please tell my kids the back seats in the 911 are useless, thanks.
Those seats are not useless when you have kids, like many of us do. My kids love the back seats in my 911.
I have owned a Boxster 718 GTS 4.0 since July 2020 and after 12.000 km I am delighted with the behavior of the car in all aspects. Before I had a Boxster 981 2.7 and the new 718 4.0 improves on the 981 in aspects such as steering, chassis and general behavior. In both the 981 and my 718 4.0 the suspension is the PASM -10 mm (optional in the GTS 4.0 compared to the PASM -20 mm) and in my opinion it is a very comfortable suspension on all types of roads.
My personal impressions of the GTS 4.0 are very favorable and differ greatly from what I heard in this video. Personally I find it a very fun car to drive, it is like my 981 but better in many ways and with a lovely engine, and so far it has given me nothing but satisfaction.
In answer to your question, yes a GTS should have GTS options/interior as standard. Surely the clue is in the name.
It certainly used to be standard. I have the 981 GTS and had to deselect it to go with standard full leather.
@@robbyoung7279
The GTS always gets Alcantara as standard that you could deselect if you want and change to leather.
The two additional ‘GTS interior’ packs referred to, are over £3300 now and were the same on the 981 GTS, 718GTS2.5 and now GTS4.0.
I specified all these cars from new and only on the 981, did I not go for it.
It’s a massive cost for some carbon fibre and stitching, but I really think it transformed the latter pair.
I went fro crayon GTS packs in both 718, as I’ve never enjoyed red stitching on black.
@@DontPanicDear Perhaps I'm mistaken then. It was 5 years ago and I still can't bring myself to part with it for one of the newer ones. I didn't like the 2.5 and I'm not really a fan of the 718 shape. Once the 992 comes out in GTS form, it might be a different matter.
@@robbyoung7279
No worries. The sure fire way to know if the packs were chosen, is if there is a grey / red GTS on the headrests.
I agree the 718 is less classic looking.
Porsche finally got rid of the last pretty Cayman styling cue, in those rear lights!
The 2.5 will always be the less sought after, for good reason. I went for it, as I’d become gradually more and more annoyed with the throttle mapping and fancied a change.
The 718 was a good bit faster and I lived with the sound as a daily. The only time it made me long for NA, was on the autobahn, where long flat out stretches sounded just loud and nasty!!
It was actually more natural to drive fast on a B-road though.
I’ve done very short videos of both if you click on my channel.
Our new 4.0 is black with gold wheels, so more of a retro JPS feel 🤓
All manual cars.
Looks like I will be sticking with the Aygo for a little longer then.
All things are relative ☺ James is comparing to a fancy V8 Vantage rather than an Aygo! There's a lot to be said for thrashing the nuts off a slow car for fun though...
@@ApothecaryTerry safe money until you can afford a GR Yaris😉
Fun little cars. Surprised you don't see them at track days with bike engines in them🤔
@@ApothecaryTerry The problem with powerful cars is that it's difficult to stretch their legs. And when you do you end up doing double, triple or more the speed limit.
By a 2014 boxster Italian owner: Jay, this car changes dramatically as temperature increases. It's pretty temperature sensitive :wet and cold, you feel uncomfortable and always on the edge with grip driving is not pleasant ; above 18 degrees, everything changes, becomes glued to the road, empathic,a great engaging road companion. 👍(p.s.: my one wears Pzero)
Agreed, especially with the P zeros. I will be glad when they actually are worn out so I can replace them with Michelin’s.
Get yourself some ps4s and come and check us out if you own a 981 lots of videos on little improvements 👍
Anche tu gts? Vero, poi in Italia abbiamo monti e mare... molta più varietà di strade... colline... se non fosse per gli autovelox saremmo un paese-pista...
That’s good to hear, I just bought one but only had a very short test drive and was impressed but didn’t push it at all. Maybe I’ll swap to PS4S fairly soon though, just had them on my Yaris and they are great 👍
So basically useless in Canada
I respect you Mr JayEmm, though this time I think you’re off the mark with your analysis on the GTS 4.0
Totally agree with Max.
I would love to know the reasoning you both have
Like many others said the conditions and also the wrong rubber. I own one and every time I get in it, always put a smile on my face. My car is a daily driver and I think the car is spot on especially on horrendous A and B roads. Maybe have the car for a few weeks and you will think twice 😀
@@Badmastard Porsche put those tyres on it. They said I could only have the car for a few hours. Blame them!
@@JayEmmOnCars but there is a bigggg difference between the 2 tyres. Many owners will totally agree with me. You can’t blame the car by a few hours of driving.
Good review, Jay - but I fear you may be in the minority when it comes to the GTS 4.0. There aren’t many cars for the money that can match, let alone better this beauty
That is how journalism should work:)
He drove it on cold roads with the Cup 2 tires, of course it is going to skip around. He would have had a better time on a nice warm day
Agree, I have seen countless videos and magazine articles all giving glowing reports on the GTS 4.0. as far as being a sports car that connects with the driver. Head scratcher...
How about the Lotus Emira?
Emira has better steering feel in my opinion but I only drove it for 20 miles or so. Porsche is better in other ways though. Both cars are top class
I have a very similar spec PyThon Green GTS4.0 but on Michelin pilot sport 4S tyres, which I believe are superior to the PZero tyres that appear to be fitted to the test car you drove, also think the ambient temperature will have had a big impact on traction. My experience is that the ride is firm but very good for a 400bhp sports car on 20 inch wheels. I do agree the GTS interior pack should be standard, but OPC’s make a tidy profit on ‘essential’ options, so I can’t see that changing. It almost feels like you didn’t have enough time with this or the 992 to properly appreciate them.
Agreed. More time needed to get used to them and work things out. Would have avoided the mistakes re drive modes etc.
If you only get a short time in each car, perhaps one could offer less rigid and definitive conclusions, or perhaps caveat the reviews with the drive duration etc.
Porsche are gits with this GTS interior thing!
They do give us standard sports plus seats and alcantara, still with the silver trim pieces. Those do match the steering wheel spokes though, so I never minded the ‘Basic’ GTS spec on our 981.
On the 2.5 and now 4.0 cars, we did opt for the packs. Crayon both times with the associated carbon trims. It does feel more special, but no way is it worth the money 🙈
Agreed re the tyres. I did a PZero to PS4S swap on the 2.5 car and it was transformed!
Those cars will always suffer most with traction on the PZ, due to the turbo midrange. Not an issue with the Michelin’s.
TBH, if anyone drives a Cayman and says it lacks traction, even on PZero, they were not really driving to the conditions and then expecting miracles. Cayman have exceptional traction!
Imagine if he’s have been flooring an M4 on those cold damp roads 👀
If he were to spend more time with it, he would get used to its weakness to the point of no longer becoming noticeable
I did mention I believe in the video conditions might have a part to play
@@BurgerCroissant
He’s right partially. No amount of bitching will get you the tyres you want. 80% have Pirelli.
Your 981 had the ancient N0.
New cars will have PZ4 N1 variants, that are way better than you had before.
Fingers crossed for PS4S.
BTW, there is only one production line for all sports cars. 911, Boxsters and Cayman all end to end at the same time.
GT, off roaders and hybrids are on other lines.
@@BurgerCroissant It is September now so.. How is the car? 😁
Behold the difference between a car salesman and an actual reviewer.
100 💯 kudos to Jayem for NOT rolling out video after video of brown nose garbage licking up to manufacturer U.K. press teams.
YT is awash with these paid promotions.
Jayem berates porkers and Beemers to be contrarian and appear to beimpartial , his high praise for a barrage of shite cars shows inconsistency in his approach. I suppose you can argue his reviews are relative to price ... I just see an obese Clarkson fanboy who purposely goes against his better judgement for clicks .... I still like his reviews though and commend his output rate
@@Andronicus26 you must be high! He gives his OPINON and as you watch more and more, you can see what he likes and doesn't like. Unlike most other car reviewers out there, who just parrots what the manufacturers' marketing team told them a few hours ago and MAY in passing mention a negative.
I like Jayem since he's very practical and treats reviews as if he's spending his OWN hard earned money on the car. Most others forget that you're paying a serious premium to get into many of these cars and there should be some reward for the premium you pay. We all understand the value curve (diminishing returns), but there should be some reward for it nonetheless.
At the end, if you're considering one of these cars, you owe it to yourself to go and test drive them and see how YOU feel. Who cares what ANY talking heads say on TH-cam? The car is for you, not others, assuming you're even in the market.
He made a good point...”He’s not Chris Harris”.
I’ve just watched your review of the base 911 which was excellent btw….but it struck me that everything you felt was lacking in the 911 is fully evident in the GTS. I chose to purchase the GTS because (to me anyway) it now has the size and characteristics that older gen 911s once had….including a far more driver focused interior.
You should test both cars again each with identical appropriate tires. As a Cayman owner, it seems to me that your traction and steering issues were caused by a poor choice of tire for the road and weather conditions.
I don’t know if anything has changed but I had a gts 2.5 for 2 years and the response from the steering wheel was very good, I could always feel the road and how much grip I had
Me too. 2.5 for 2.5 years 😃
Mine came with P-Zero and was great.
When I changed to Michelin PS4S, the car was transformed.
The car was just MORE Cayman!
I now have a new 4.0 on Michelins and the same is true.
The suspension has been reworked too, as the engine changed.
I recognise none of the Jay comments re pasm.
He also made a few mistakes re the drive modes and rev matching.
While I respect his opinion, he clearly didn’t have enough time in the cars, to make such definitive conclusions.
@@DontPanicDear Its the same steering rack in this car too. I have to say, mine felt great too so no clue what is going on here. I suspect he just doesnt like it or isnt used to it. He doesnt push the cars much and by the sounds of it doesnt really rev them out either. Its more of a slow cruise down a country lane which these cars aint really built for. I wouldnt say a rough bouncy road at slow speeds is the best way to get a feel for a cayman GTS. Most people love these cars but you need to really push them to get the most out of them though!
P-zero, cooler temps or maybe the alignment specs are off. But the 4.0/2.5 does skip around a bit which can be somewhat disconcerting, but to me it’s just the fun part of mastering the car
The lack of steering feel sounds like it might be the power steering plus option - which sounds like it should be an upgrade, but instead feels absolutely numb and disconnected.
The steering feel in my 718GTS (2018) is extraordinarily communicative and most people would never know it’s electric steering. According to Porsche, the 718GTS’s drive by wire steering control box was taken straight from the 911 Turbo.
100%
Power steering plus was my first thought too. Not an option for enthusiast driving. Tick that box for the moms driving Cayenne’s to Whole Foods and yoga.
Champing (not chomping) at the bit used correctly. Bravo!
This is interesting. I have never seen anyone write champing. Not a single time. Says a lot about how idioms change over time.
Really subpar review. For starters, figuring out what constitutes the GTS interior is as easy as hitting the Porsche website where he'd easily find a full description of it in the car configurator. Also, you'd be hard pressed to find another reviewer out there who will take issue with the steering on a 718. I could go on... I don't think this guy can be taken seriously.
Sounds like offended Cayman owner.
Hahaha I was thinking the same thing! Also it’s struggling for grip because it’s a 400hp rear drive car being driven on a wet cold road…
Yeah this guy is completely incompetent, idk why people even watch this
How nice of them to let that homeless man have a go in these porches
He's well fed though !
😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣
Think he is hangry.
😂😂😂😂😂
"PORCHES"? "PORCHES"? Ah yes, you must be the moron who enjoy watching the moving pictures, but has difficulty understanding the spoken word. What have you spent your, excuse me, our benefits money on, car wise?. MORON, is way too much of an insult to proper morons, how about WINDAE LICKER.
I just can't say no to the 718 Cayman's good looks. It's my favorite Porsche, awesome design from every angle. For me, the car's shortcomings melt away as it comes into view - "hello good looking".
Sounds like Harry Metcalfe had a different view in his Boxster 4.0 GTS video
not only Harry...this is a strange review from James....he is practically the only one that has critised it driving abilities
@@lonewarrior1543 Which is a bit problematic when your driving credentials are significantly inferior to the people you're disagreeing with...
Because this guy hasn't got a single clue about engineering or how actually cars work. FFs, another youtuber/influencer who has a platform and has no background. He doesn't even know how to pronounce Porsche, what'd you expect?
@@AlexuuMetaaL He does know how, but if you don't say Mercedes the same way a German does than why would you also do the same for Porsche? It's a dumb talking point. I disagree abt this review, tho.
@@ogdenwernstom4085 it’s not the same thing. People won’t change their habits or how they’re used to do things generally, if that doesn’t directly impact their life. Or they’re forced to do it. Due to commodity, or just plain superficiality or ignorance.
Things cannot/shouldn’t be explained “if that happens with the Mercedes, than why it should happen with anything else?” On the same respect, why would one finish college? Bill gates left Harvard and he’s successful. And impactful. And so on..
When mainly because is much harder to pronounce correctly Mercedes. And people got used to pronouncing the Porsche brand correctly, not because is its German pronunciation. It just sounds plainly better.
So, yeah it’s useless commentary and I lost 4 min and a half writing this down, but this guy still hasn’t learned a thing about cars. Nor others like him, shmee mrjww, sol. At least we get to see the cars. At least..
Came here for the shirt but found a trench coat 😂
Lmao!
Wow, that was an underwhelming result for the GTS 4.0, I was expecting a rave review.
You and me both
this guy's wrong
Because UK roads in the wintertime are this car's target market.
I’ve driven it in the cold on the standard tyres. But with the no cost option PASM dropped by 10 not 20mm. Great drive, compliant and accurate.
I like your reviews and you clearly know a thing or two but agree with others review of 4.0GTS is harsh. I got the leather seats and had crests put on the headrests and like the look. I dont go for the interior addenda personally so options restricted but did get climate control which should be standard for sure, and Aventurine green which suits a man of my advanced years and the car. I find compared to my previous M2 ride is much better and the observation from my wife was that she feels much less 'thrown around' at similar speeds in the Cayman. I find I'm getting lots of communication from the steering and its just incredibly balanced whatever I do with it. Comments on round urban seem different to my perception, I find it very happy to bumble round at 30mph, its easier to keep the speed down in 3rd rather than 4th but I dont feel its running away with me. Gearing is long but again its pulls all through the range so I can use higher gears if I'm driving briskly and go down the box for overtakes and slip roads to hear the full 8k revs. Overall its a magnificent machine, I cant imagine what would be better as an exploitable road car daily. Even though it was a stretch for me to afford it I have zero regrets. For me the number one question mark on your review of both cars is how on earth do you expect to get proper feel from the steering when your movement is so clearly restricted by wearing a massive coat? Surely you could have taken it off, I never wear a coat in the car because it is so restrictive of movement.
I can't get away from the idea that he can be a fantastic top gear host next to Harris. His comments are very unique and bold and his shirts will be enough to complete him as an iconic host.
Good shout
Unfortunately he'd bore the pants off every member of the general public who watches Top Gear for entertainment purposes.
@@R03333 I like Jay, but it’s true. Don’t think he’s meant for entertainment television.
I was given the previous 2.L GTS for the day while my macan was being serviced and it was actually very good! Felt very raw and more than fast enough, traction issues too though above 5000 rpm. Could be the better value car used as it wasn’t much loved.
I suspect the majority of Porsche drivers don't want steering feel. They'd probably think 'Why does the steering wheel keep moving about?' They want the badge, the looks, the cache, and, probably less so, the speed.
Each new iteration of sports cars used to be better than the previous one. But with EPS, turbos (usually), etc. (and soon, hybrid weight gain), I don't think that's the case anymore. Finances aside, I'd rather have a 997 than a 992, and a 458 over an F8 Tributo.
Does anybody know if the GT4 both 981 and 718 have a much better steering than the 4.0 ? I have driven the Exige 350 and when I say steering feel I mean similar to that one.. I know it’s not hydraulic in the 718/981 but is the Gt4 more similar to the Exige or still remains kinda numb?
@@mrt.789 Now bare in mind, I haven’t driven a sports car of any kind. From what I’ve heard, the Lotus steering is about as good as you’ll get in a modern car. In that sense I would say you’ve probably been spoiled for steering, so I don’t think anything will be quite as good if you’re talking modern Porsche. Again, haven’t driven any of them, but from what people have said, Lotus steering is very good, not that Porsche’s is really that bad. If I were to jump out of my pickup truck and drive a 992 911, I think I’d be pretty chuffed. All subjective, I suppose.
Depends on the Porsche driver. Badge, looks and cache were considerations for me but my biggest considerations were all about the way it drives (and the sound). I daily drive my 981S (well, weekly drive, because lockdown...but it's my only car), I'm assuming the steering is similar to this GTS and the amount of feedback is about right considering my usage. On a track I'd want more, but I certainly don't want more for long journeys. It's a perfect B road car for me.
The reason is simple: suspensions and tires have gotten so good and achievable speeds so high that the cars no longer provide the old school "road feature" feeling at lower speeds. You need to live between 80 - 160 mph for these modern sports car to deliver.. unless you drive a Fiesta ST or similar, for which the more traditional speeds are still a big deal. Just think about how these GTS and GT4 are geared: in normal drive, you'll never reach a 4th gear. And unless you try to make a track record on a kart track with them, they won't provide you any feel of limits at 0-60mph range. It's the downside of chasing for Nurburgring lap records.
@@ApothecaryTerry I agree. I just suspect that you are in the minority of Porsche owners. Hence they're happy that with each generation of 911, more connection with the car is lost (as long as it has bigger numbers, and is more luxurious). And they're also happy to buy 4-cylinder Boxsters/Caymans, and Cayennes and Macans in their droves.
Wow! I wasn't expecting that! Meaning the steering not being engaging. Well done Jay for putting that point across. You mentioned that the 991 had a lot of noise intrusion. How does the Cayman compare on that point. Thanks for the frank review.
Very interesting and noteworthy analysis, Jay. Well done!
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I’m more of a Cayman and Boxster guy but the way you described this GTS, I think I’d prefer the 911 for its road manners and tuning potential.
Surprised that you didn’t comment more about the somewhat neutered exhaust - thanks to Euro regs. The US reviews of the Euro spec cars quite frequently mentioned that. And when I test drove the US spec 718 GT4 this past summer, I couldn’t help but think the 981 GT4 sounded better.
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Look forward to your next live stream and reviews.
Cheers!
Could the tires be the problem with the traction problem?
It seems that the general consensus is if it doesn’t begin with “911”, it’s never good enough....
I’ll take the 718 boxster spyder any day
Really? The video before this he was slating the 911. Lol.
And he likes basic cayman..
They are all good 👍
Checked out the Cayman GTS interior package on the porsche configurator:
"...Stitching, seatbelts, the rev counter dial and the “GTS” logo on the headrests can be chosen in the contrast colours of Crayon or Carmine Red. The package also includes floor mats with Black edges, with the stitching and the “PORSCHE” logo in a contrasting colour. The dashboard, door panel and centre console trims are all in carbon. The optional GTS interior package is based on the optional leather interior with additional Alcantara® features"
So basically some Alcantara & some Carbon trim.
Credit to you, these two reviews of the Cayman and 992 are possibly the best, most honest, pertinent and perceptive reviews I've ever watched. (Who else does a 3 point turn test!) Well done and thanks.
I'd love to know if you'd choose your old Evora 400 over these two Porsche's???
I thinkhe'd choose a transit van over a Porsche.....
I've owned Porsches, but yeah I would have a Lotus over these but only at sensible money. Not the £90k Lotus want
@@JayEmmOnCars
Yep...Lotus...better to drive 😎
Porsche...better made.👍🏻
Lotus over Porsche. Because Toyota V6. It makes the Evora less stressful to own IMO. I owned a BoxsterS 3.2L but in the back of my mind there was always the horror scenario of IMS bearing failure. It didn't happen but it could have...
The Evora is very close to a track day car. Can't compare.
Are you suggesting that the steering feel here has taken a step back from where it was with earlier electric steering systems? I haven't heard any reviewers complain about Porsche steering feel since they switched to electric steering around 08. I was under the impression that they had only improved from there. All I have heard is that Porsche's system is the best electric steering for feel although certainly worse than the old hydraulic.
It feels almost the same as a 20 year old GT3 if you are talking about feedback. It's just feel slightly softer on B-roads. But in exchange it's safer and more reliable.
What do you think about the suspension and steering in the gts 4.0 vs the Spyder on the same roads? Same drawbacks?
Jay is not going to get invited to review porsche cars any more I feel. 🤣🤣🤣
Yep! Also my thought. But I’m glad he’s honest and not pandering.
He states himself that he wasn't particularly enthusiastic about the cars previously but Porsche still asked him. They should be able to take an honest and one person's review on their cars.
A true reviewer job is to serve me and you, not the rich manufacturer. Well done Jay! Subscribed.
Confident manufacturers would talk the criticism to correct themselves and provide responses to criticism
but McLaren for example, who are too sensitive and lack confidence, made big issues of valid criticism
I'm not sure Porsche follows which, but from the recent incident of admitting the 4 cyl was a mistake
and bringing back GT4 while they said they aren't
they look like searching for people's satisfaction
@@inikkor61 I agree with that. I was merely pointing out porsche might turn sour towards him. 🤣
Thanks. Interesting review. I now want to test drive one. It would be a shame if it disappoints because, after many years, I think they finally got the looks and drive right with the last gen Caymen.
Good review although at 7:10... the mph what’s the issue if you have a digital mph at the bottom of the Rev counter? Bit fussy if you ask me.
Very thankful for your honesty in all your reviews!
Some good points (many, however, I suspect caused by the "quality" of your road network) but no idea what you're on about re: the steering. For an electric rack it's superb. Not like an old car, but for an electric PS it is really really good. Maybe the car had a sh!t alignment, a lot of these cars come from the factory with the wheels pointing in various directions of wrong and a proper alignment makes worlds of difference. It is loads better than the steering in the 981 gen cars, which was kind of OK already to begin with. And with people like Harry M and Steve S singing its praises I can't help but think you either got an unusually bad example or are...wrong lol.
You’re right, I don’t understand the critique of the steering. It is virtually perfect. That being said, I don’t play video games so I don’t have a comparison!
The point is valid. Until u drive something that is good you won't know and Jay has for sure done that. After I bought a Giulia quadrifoglio and got used to its sharp steering I couldn't stand the vagueness of my 991...
@@inikkor61 I've driven just about any relevant car on the planet (well, not many American cars I guess) but that doesn't even matter because I am not among the world's best car reviewers. The people who ARE have driven many more cars than anyone, Jay included, and they _still_ say the complete opposite. I do agree on the Giulia steering, it's fantastic. Doesn't make the steering on a 982 GTS numb by any stretch of the imagination however. That's just a bizarre suggestion.
@@JCviggen1 who drove more cars and said complete opposite?
Who decided they are the best journalists?
@@lukazupie7220 Anyone who's been a known car journalist for a couple decades I guess? That's a lot of people who aren't Jay. If you're going to have an outlier opinion it doesn't help to be relatively new in the business and not actually employed by a reputable car magazine.
How does this compare to the 981 boxster gts jay? Which one do you prefer?
Couldnt disagree more. From what I saw in this review you didnt drive the GTS in his "power zone" - the fun starts around 5.000 and you switch between 2nd and 3rd gear to experience the best sports car currently on the market. Clearly the criticism of money/value is understandable, but thats something anyone can decide before buying. I dont regret having bought my silver 918 GTS 4.0 !
That’s the thing about these cars. They’re boring unless you’re you’re in the high rpms…and that normally results in ridiculous speeds when second gear will take you to 80mph. It’s no wonder 90% go for the auto when you only get 1 usable gear change in road driving. Definitely a blast in the high rpms though. I think they overly focus on refinement and luxury which gives you no real sporty feeling unless you’re pushing hard.
I too disagree with his review, which often have a contrarian opinion compared to most journalists. Drive the car and make your own opinion. The GTS 4.0 is one of the best sports cars “I” have ever driven. Well balanced, nimble, sedate when driven in city, a beast in the upper rev range in Sport +. Like every review, take it with a grain of salt and drive the car yourself before dismissing a car from consideration.
I drove the thing properly. I stand by my words. If you like em, fabulous - buy it and enjoy!
Thanks JayEmm. Interesting insights. Surprising conclusion.
Still keeping it real and honest despite the manufacturers manipulation of journalists. Well done J
Now convinced the 997 is the sweet spot of the water cooled 911s. Have the bigger PDK 991.1 now but it replaced the manual 997.2 - which was still small enough to be fun on the back roads and steered like a dream. Guess what I’ll be reverting to in due course.
Good honest review thanks. Maybe the tyres and weather were ride factors
So Jay, I am in the market for a special trip weekend warrior that my wife will get in. Its a car I want to keep for a decent amount of time. In the past I have had a few lotus's, a couple of 911's and a Boxster (a few models ago) . I would prefer a convertible. I have a run out model Elise 240 deposit ( now all sold out) I Really loved the evora, but think its a bit too complex , can be unreliable and suspect will depreciate pretty quickly whereas the Elise won't. The Alpine sounds great but for a weekend warrior, is it special enough and I do prefer a manual. The 718 GTS4.0 was working its way to the top of the list, so I am surprised at this. You can spec a higher i.e 10mm drop spec which I would do. You drove cold wet roads and maybe in sport, is the suspension really that bad. I really respect your challenging reviews but what would you buy?
Strange outcome on this one, video felt a bit rushed, I guess you don't get long with the car and probably not the best time of year to test it fully. Pirellis in those conditions are a bit uncommunicative and slightly edgy, the PS4s are nicer. I would agree you need push a modern Cayman quite hard to get it to talk to you but when you do they are lovely things.
You’re not the only one thinking this mate...
I agree seems like he had half an hour up and down the same country roads close to PEC. Northamptonshire's roads are appalling, probably the worse in the country.
Almost every manufacturer gives out press cars for a week. Some a weekend.
Porsche want the car out and back on the same day.
@@JayEmmOnCars hasn't done them any favours, thanks for the response Jay 👍
Totally agree....
Great, honest review, but I still love it for representing what Porsche are willing to offer us in 2021. I'd have the Boxster version though, where a wind in the hair experience might forgive it some of the dynamic shortcomings of the steering, if not the ride.
Strange review, all the other journalists love it !!
Yeah, it is strange. He must’ve gotten up on the wrong side of the bed.
I just reviewed the car as it was presented to me, same as all the others
Really appreciate the balanced review. More useful than gushing
Really surprised this did not drive well and have much communication through the wheel. Porsche having decided to bring back the flat-6 in the Cayman should have been an epic car. EVO magazine really liked it and I trust their and your opinions on cars so I am not sure how I feel about it now. Maybe I'll have to try and get a test drive when lockdown is eased...
Not usually a fan of green cars and not a fan of black wheels but this car looks awesome!!
I think you need to drive one of these in the summer with some proper michelin rubber on it
never had any issues with the 981 GTS on PZeros. I have driven in wet and cold on B roads and the car sticks to the road at high speeds...infact gets sturdier as the speed goes up...plus the sound of 981 is so amazing..
Maybe wrong tyre pressure in the 718?
The normal tyre pressure is 35psi, but Porsche also have a comfort pressure of 30psi for speeds under 165mph. Would be interesting to do the same test with the two different tyre pressures. Not sure what difference 5psi would make.
Appreciate the honest reviews Jay. Been watching you for awhile. To be fair to Porsche and summer tires. The climate you were testing in, which looks wet, muddy, and cold, is probably the worst conditions to drive "sports cars" in and expect them to be "sporty". Those roads look like a cold, wet, mess and that is exactly how I would expect the car to handle. Unhappy and disconnected. Unfortunate your experience in 2 nice Porsches fell flat. I know you are a Porsche fan and have high expectations. I would too, just not in those conditions.
Very nearly ordered the 718 GTS when it had the four pot. I would have jumped out a window if I had and this 4.0L dropped 🤣🤣 test drove a Cayman S at the time and it put me off completely. Salesman even tried to say the diff wouldn’t make a difference etc so I was hitting my head against the wall off the bat. Got back in the M2 and it was way more fun. Even the interior wasn’t that far off if you haven’t gone for the extended leather options on the porker.
As a 2021 C2S owner, I am considering trading in for a 2022 Cayman GTS 4.0 PDK, what are your thoughts?
How is the rev match in the Toyota Yaris? What is messed up about it? I didn’t like the rev match in the civic type r either, coming from the gt4
Sounds to me like the steering feel is the biggest issue. Some of the other driving dynamics are best addressed by leaving the damping in normal mode.
Completely agree…..leave it in standard unless you are on super smooth tarmac which in the UK is sadly a very rare commodity these days
Interesting comments about the handling and struggling for traction. I find exactly the same on my 4.0 ltr, which is surprisingly more scary than a 981 where the electronics work impressively seamlessly with the chassis. A few side window moments have confirmed your impression about how suddenly it becomes scary. Is the one you tested a customer / dealer car or one that’s been properly set-up by the press garage? I learnt on an earlier car that the factory tolerances are remarkably wide, so it can be in spec but not right: press cars are sorted, customer cars are pot luck. Several friends have taken theirs to independent chassis specialists to have their cars set-up properly. Not what you should have to do with a new Porsche. Mine skips in 2nd even on a dry road. Thinking about swapping it for a 981 GTS, which sounds much nicer too.
And then..... For no particular reason...... A Boxstet GTS 6 speed manual found a way into my garage and my car smile had yet to receed.
I think it comes down to tire and alignment. I remember having excellent steering feedback on my 718’s. However the 991.2 and current 992 doesn’t have as good of a steering feedback even after alignment. PS4S tires did help a little though.
Great review and regarding the 911 in line with what many others have said. The 718 review was not though. This makes me suspicious. Was there something wrong with the car you got or with something else like the conditions? Would be interesting to see you drive it again and see if something changes.
Surprised at this review, thought you would love it! Curious to hear if you liked this more or less than the last gen 981?
Ehhhh instead of GBP1250 for GTS Interior Package, for an extra 300 quids over that you can get extended leather interior in Bordeaux Red/Crayon/Luxor Beige. Expensive? Yes. But at least it's not blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack over blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack with 1250 quids worth of stitching and seat belt. PDK or manual? In GTS there's no problem in choosing either, both are brilliant.
Sadly here in Indonesia I was told by Porsche that the possibility of getting a 4-litre GTS is small, since the taxation here is atrocious for cars with cubic capacity bigger than 3-litre. GT4 and Spyder is coming because the market do exist, but the GTS 4.0 probably won't supersede 2.5 here. Not completely unavailable, but would be difficult.
You are right about the grey stiching and the grey tachometer and grey seatbelts but also the carbon fiber trim. The carbon fiber trim option is essentially the same price if you don't like that aluminum trim (more important imo for a boxster), so just think of all that extra stuff as just "thrown in for free" and that's the "GTS interior package" The dashboard is a little bit less "nice" if it isn't leather imo.
The way I would spec mine (I'm waiting on an allocation) would just be to keep the black stiching but get the black brushed aluminum trim with the extended leather option and you save a few bucks over the GTS interior package and therefore you can get a black tachometer and not have to deal with the grey one.
I have one on order (have an allocation and a 3% discount!). I was going to go for extended leather (wasn't bothered about the alu trim as I don't think it is enough of an improvement on the standard alu to be worth it). I decided to go for the GTS interior trim as I really like the red stitching and other touches and it seems to be what (nearly) everyone wants which could matter come resale time. I don't particularly like alcantara but overall think the GTS package is worth it (for me anyway). You can opt to have smooth leather on the steering wheel. I am having guards red paint and don't like any of the non-black interiors and I think that is colour terms, the alcantara slightly lightens the darkness re black leather.
@@clint1257 I have been talking to my dealer for the past 2 months about trying to order a GTS with no luck. If I don't hear something soon I might end up going for one of the many low-mileage 2016 spyders available at a pretty nice discount.
But yea, I just don't care for the carbon fiber trim nor the grey dials, but if you like both, it's a great bargain. I have seen extended leatherwith alcantera seats and black brushed aluminum specced on other GTS cars before, and it's a great combo (But as you said, you have to be ok with an all-black interior)
@@Antarius I'm amazed you can't get a GTS 4.0. I went to the coast to coast cars website and they were offering a 3% discount. I then took this to a Porsche dealer and they matched it (this on 25 Jan). A few weeks later they confirmed an allocation. If you can message me (not sure if its possible) I'll tell you the dealer as I don't want to cause them any grief. Hope you get something you like anyway. I test drove the GTS 4.0 and it completely blew me away and I've driven loads of different cars (Porsches included).
I have a 718 Spyder and after my experiences with the 981 Spyder in comparison, I 100% agree with this review. I haven't driven the GTS, but the comparisons he makes is spot on, at least when referring to the Spyder. The Spyder has a sadly numb steering response and feedback. The bouncy PASM is definitely a complaint I have that I'm trying to resolve at the moment.
Just dial in your height & alignment, mine’s 👌
I considered the Boxster GTS over the Spyder as I wasn’t sure I wanted to deal with the manual top again (had a 981 Spyder). After watching this glad I decided to go with another Spyder, Gentien Blue, manual.
Great video Jay. This is why 981 values are holding strong
Yes, these are the kind of videos I tune in for. 981 gt4 owner
what were temperatures like during the drive?
Bear in mind sports+ mode is intended as a track mode where you should be either on the brakes or on the throttle.
In that respect a very sensitive throttle is a good thing as long as there is some play to feather through the higher revs.
Luv and Peace.
You loved 981 GTS Boxster, is this so much worse?
I was absolutely thrilled after trading a base 2014 Cayman for a 2016 Cayman GTS. Although I worried about road clearance, with speed humps and steep grades to go from streets to business or homes, for instance. I found the suspension stiffness a little too much. After driving two 911s for two years I am yearning for a Cayman GTS like the 2016 again. This year 2021 there is a no cost option for a 10mm increase in road clearance on GTS 4.0. Have not heard a peep about how this affects road feel or handling - is either affected at all?
I am not sure either, it may simply be a height difference
How does the gearing in the manual GTS compare to the manual GT4?
Same. Same engine, same gearbox. Porsche electronically nerf it in the GTS. The ratios are silly long and that's why the PDK is the drivers choice - more ratios, more headroom for keeping the engine singing.
Very interesting - your review has picked up issues that none of the other reviews have mentioned. I suspect because few reviewers use real world B roads in winter conditions! How much do the tyres contribute to the edginess I wonder? Another great review Jay.
And P Zero's
Steve - after I filmed my review I watched a few others to see if we agreed. I was amazed none of them had issues with the suspension - but then most of the reviews were on glorious smooth European roads!
@@JayEmmOnCars this is why I don't trust most reviewers. Every car that comes out is better than everything they've recently reviewed and it's obvious they're still high from the steak and wine that the manufacturer gave them last night. Reviewers have become the marketing arm of manufacturers, rather than proper reviewers.
Case in point, I have a 2018 BMW M2, which is supposed to be one of their sportiest fun to drive cars. Almost a throwback to the E36 M3 I used to own. And yet the steering and suspension in it is ABYSMAL. I prefer the feel of my 2019 Tesla Model 3. A TESLA feels better and more sporty. That's just sad and I'm not sure I'll ever get another BMW.
I really applaud you for your honesty. Hope it doesn't impact your relationship with Porsche. When you pay a premium for premium cars, you expect a bit more for your money than just a badge.
@@brois841 Agreed. I had a 2017 M2 and the suspension was indeed harsh and incredibly unsettled on "normal" everyday road surfaces. Steering feel tuning was surprisingly worse than my Golf R that preceded it.
@@brois841 I agree 100% with your comments. And that's why I like Jay's channel so much. His critisicm may not be a problem for someone. Everyone has to decide that for themselves depending on their own use and conditions. But indeed in most movies it is all sunshine.
For this reason, I never buy a car/bike without half day testdrive. No posibility for a test drive, no sales. 😉
Thank you very much, I have made up my mind. The Carrera T for me, I did consider this car but after watching your review of the Carrera T that would be the car I would choose.
Guess I'll stick with the 981!
On the thing of going suddenly, I don't think that's the case though. Other reviews I've seen suggest that it's a lot like the 981 in that regard, it does kick the back out quickly and easily but doesn't snap.
Also slightly confused by the "throttle is too responsive" comment at 9:41, guessing "sensitive" was the intended meaning as per later in the video.
Still, for me the 981 looks and sounds nicer as well as being set up just right. Has the same useless speedo though, having a 2nd screen would have been infinitely more useful.
I have high expectations for this car. I have a 981 boxster s and I can relate to the comments by jay on damping.....three settings would do best (current one should be sport, current sport should be track and a third setting for daily chores should be more supple)....having said that, mine is a fun car (my daily is a BRZ so I don’t require much in the way of comfort) and the complaint is a minor one. I’ve come to expect no perfect car (especially when you need a proper manual like I do and there are fewer available each year), so I try not to let non-catastrophic issues put me off a car. My car w more power sounds exceptional - as I would rather educate my kids than spend $92k on a gts 4.0, it is for now a theoretical issue for me. As for the Porsche options sheet - yes - it’s insane to ask for $ when calling something the gts interior on the gts model.....but it has to be said Jay....you also complained about the $ but then lauded the carbon fiber bits (part of that package). Those who love porsches for their engineering must (for their own sanity) get over their money grab on the options sheet. Tick the boxes that count and you could get a great car without adding 30% over base cost.
The last point I’ll make is on the very premise of this comparison....to me the framing itself is clear but not as rigorously applied as I would have done.....both of these cars are sports cars. Comfort and workmanship are not unimportant for sure (particularly at this price point - I forgive a lot of my BRZ for the lack of cost it asks)....but the bottom line is that the cayman is on par or a little better/worse than the 911 and one needs to pay 14-% more for the latter (base to base - tick whatever boxes you like on the options sheet)....if you must have a manual (as I do) that means a 32% premium for the 911 as you need to jump to the S so as to row your own gears.
The headline should read: the cayman dethrones the 911.
Yesterday I drove a first gen Boxster and I hated it. I was expecting feel comparable to my 86 or better but the steering was trash, the throttle required greater input for speed than necessary and it felt heavier despite being similar weight to a 86. I think the GT Porsches are built more for the "feel" crowd I'm in.
You are right in saying that you are not Chris Harris. But you don’t need to be. You bring views that are more practical that apply to the real world of an owner driver. Shame about the jittery ride of the GTS and the lifeless steering. Enjoyed both videos in this series. Well done guys.
How does this compare to the 981 and 718 gt4. Do you like those better?
You don't need the Chrono pack to get the mode knob, or the overtake button in the middle of it.
How much was it down to the tyres on the cold roads I wonder?
Glad you're not Chris Harris! You'd drive and review your cars like how we would drive our cars most of the time. Keep it up JayEmm
Thankyou
As cars have gotten better and faster (on paper at least), most of them have also lost something. They're just not as _fun_ as they used to be. Lot of it has to do with weight. The driving experience is simply not as rewarding as it once was. You no longer feel like you've mastered a vehicle due to your own skill.
A 718/982 isn't really any heavier than an old 987 while a 981 is lighter than either. I think you're generally right but in this case it seems there are other issues. I think the electric steering and electronic assists are probably a big factor in this case, as well as suspension setup.
Do you think car enthusiast-type people desperately want for manufacturers to return to the “good ol’ days”, or are yours and other people’s thoughts just a mere observation between cars of yesteryear and today, and you actually appreciate modern day sports cars?
A Miata is a more back to basics fun sports car due to its size and weight. The overall fun and price makes it a really better buy IMO.
The problem is, manufacturers do what the masses want.
Alfa 4C and Lotus Elise didn't explode like convenient cars like the cayman, although they are more visceral and engaging.
Agreed, and besides the weight I would add electric power steering, turbos and the almost complete lack of manual transmissions to the list of items that dilute the experience.
Was the weather a little too cold to allow you to do the car full justice?
Where the tires pumped up properly this time? Just remembering your review of the 997 turbo
Noticed it was running on Pirelli tyres! could they be the weak link? quite often iv'e heard of people fitting Michelin and never looking back!
I'd certainly prefer Michelin
@@JayEmmOnCars Must confess once I discovered the Michelin brand many moons ago I never looked back, then in 2019 I got a new golf and in came with Dunflops as I call them, replaced the fronts at about 13k with Michelin and it transformed the car
Regarding porsche Cayman specs: I once configured a cayman s to the extent that it got all the bits and stuff that come standard on my MX 5 ND with the Sportspackage. The options cost more than the whole MX 5. It is just ludicrous
MX-5 is much more usable in the real world also, as your not at the speed limit in 2nd gear!
@@richfixescars yeah and it costs absolutely nothing to own. A VW Polo is actually more expensive to own in germany. But i really wouldnt mind the sound of a flat six
Porsche specs are silly, but I've got a 981S and there are many advantages over an MX-5. It's not exactly refined but much more so than an MX-5, far more practical and the flat 6 sound is truly epic. Also I'm not actually sure it costs much more to own- depreciation is very low and they're pretty efficient, I've had just over 47mpg on a couple of runs now.
Very different cars too, the MX-5 is purely about front-engined, RWD handling and is the king in that regard. A Cayman is much less tail-happy and much faster so less about throwing it around and more for smoothly stringing corners together (MR2 is not comparable, no snap oversteer in a Cayman). There's also the image, a properly specced Cayman gets a surprising amount of attention which an MX-5 just won't. I didn't buy it for that, but driving through a town and seeing kids pointing and jumping with excitement does put a smile on your face.
@@ApothecaryTerry yeah absolutely! If had the money a 981 would be my choice! Unfortunately at 22 years old i dont have the money for a cayman yet. But i dont think the cayman is anywhere as cheap as the Mx 5. 4 Tires are about 250€ for 4 Michelin ps4. And because it weighs about nothing brakes have to be rarely serviced at all and you can use standard Mazda parts. Right now the average fuel consumption is about 38-40mpg which is surprisingly low for how hard it is driven most of the time.
But if i have the money someday a 981 S or GTS is very high on the my bucketlist
@@ApothecaryTerry and depreciation is actually quite ok. This Mx5 lost about 6k€ in 5 years which is really ok.
But the best thing insurance. Im still very young and a MX5 is besides an oldtimer one of the cheapest car to insure for me. A Cayman would cost me about 500€ more per year on insurance alone🤷🏼♂️
JayEmm what are you thoughts on the 2.5 t gts compared to 4.0 gts
The more Porsche videos l watch the more l love my 2020 ND Miata Club Spec.
Seconded.
The answer is always Miata
I was lucky enough to go from an ND Club to a Cayman R. Gotta say that as much as I loved the ND, I love the R more!
After watching the full vid it appears to me that you dislike Porsche.
Harrys garage did a great review of this car, he looked so happy
driving it and recommended it, he loved it.
And Harry knows his onions.
That’s a interesting point about the speedo. Seems a bit too much of being different for the sake of it. I usually encourage that in cars but ffs the speedo? Just don’t screw with legibility
The point is more that it’s just superfluous rather than hard to read. There’s a digital speedo right in the central tach so there’s no reason to ever look at the other analog speedo gauge even if it was legible.
Jay are there any Caymans that you did like? I wonder if this new one is heading the way of the 911... heavier, less connected etc, or if you don't like the car in any iteration. Tx.
After watching both reviews for 911 and 718, I suspect the driver’s weight is the main concern and the problem for handling issues that is only reported here! Basically 2nd engine seating behind the wheel with constant moaning sound
I had the same problem when I was looking for a decent little RWD car with manual, and noticed that the electric steering thing plagues all sorts of cars, almost without any pattern. I personally dislike it greatly as it's almost always overly boosted or too twitchy - all the while not transmitting the road to your hands.
Case in point - Chevy Camaro - every time I shifted it with manual, it moved 3-4 inches on the road because the steering wheel was video game light and had zero dead zone in the center. I had to brace my arm against the window sill on every shift to stay in a straight line. Obviously I passed on it. It's a shame that this Porsche seems to also be afflicted with this malady.
Could it be the `tyres? as well as the cold B road with damp patches.
Certainly. The Pirelli ditch finders were in place on the Cayman. Get rid of them ASAP!
I can't see Porsche releasing a car with such poor road manners , the Cayman has always been such a brilliant car if not always overshadowed very cleverly by the 911. It's the "jittery" steering that James mentions I can't get my head around , there's clearly something wrong .
I have driven the new one and the steering is spot on not sure what you are talking about.
I'm glad they clearly labelled that 911. I wouldn't have known what it was otherwise.