Why do people always say that the cars around this time period are heavy? They really weren't heavy at all. Fun Fact! That Satellite weighs the same as a 2013 3 series! Possibly less!
Would love to see this video concept done right: Get this tuned 440 Satellite and pair it up with another '68-70 B-body (Belvedere/Satellite, FTW!) running stock suspension and P205/70s on Mopar 15x7" police steelies. Run a comparison, then find out how much it takes to improve the suspension of the stocker under different circumstances, e.g.: How much can be done on a budget vs. How much can be done without swapping out the 15" tires for low profile, etc. And get Fri and Finn to host it. Then you've got something. P.S. Elana shouldn't have to make a video and then tolerate all the stupid horn dogs in the comments section. Someone should clean up this mess out of respect to her. Send them packing off to one of the many other video sites that cater to their needs. P.P.S.: Would be nice to know the complete list of the suspension build on that Satellite. Wouldn't mind doing something similar on my '68 Satellite (also a 4-door, and also that same Chrysler "Someone Ordered Too Much Medium Green" Medium Green).
@@passinggear Caster is good, but not the only element. Currently running 5-6ish-degrees of caster with Firm Feel tubular UCAs on an otherwise stock '68 and though it's better, it certainly doesn't handle anywhere near the definition of "well."
I love seeing this 4-door rock it! I have the same car (see videos of her on my page ;) but it's just a stock 318 with a 4-barrel carb upgraded from a 2-barrel and a Flowmaster Super 40 exhaust. It's awesome to see one all muscle'd up like this one. People usually don't appreciate the classic 4-doors enough!
Ya totally. Same here, but I can't decide whether to build just a beastly cobra or a DDR GT8, I priced out both builds and if I assembled them the DDR would be around 50 and an N/A MK4 would be 55, with a 800+ BHP SC one being around 65, but I would end up dying with that much power on tap! I also looked into the daytona, beautiful but I think the Cobra just speaks to me more, however, a viper V10 in there, just wow! I can't imagine, I'd love that!! You should see if it'd work!
BMW motors are notoriously known for being low torque high revving engines. They are very efficient power plants tho. I work for a local dealer as a tech, and when i went to training my instructor ran an s85 V10 on a test stand with no oil for 10 minutes before it locked up. once it cooled down it would turn over but it was shot. when we tore it down we found that there was minimum damage to the rotating assembly the bearings took most the brunt, goes to show how well they are engineered
Pro touring is where its at for muscle cars, see the hundreds of build threads on lateral-g and pro-touring. Some of the cars being built will make your head spin!
HEY THANKS! I 100% recommend the MK4. When i started looking into building mine, FFR was still kinda so so, they attached the body to the chassis in part with 4 bolts on either side of the body down by the side pipe, that could be seen and it just looked awful i thought. so i went a different route. And i was still in high school with just over 5 grand, and the company i went with was really cool about allowing me to buy what i needed as i needed it and not a "starter kit" that was 10k plus
Love this beast!! I know he says he built it just because he had it sitting around but it's good to see the classic 4-doors being represented! I have a '70 4-door, as well (check her out on my channel), and I could only hope to have it ride this awesome one day. Little bit at a time!
I used tire rack to help choose my tires, couldn't be happier, still got the tires elsewhere as the package was cheaper. Their comparisons are very helpful and that matters a lot when shelling out $350+ a tire.
i own a truck that's had all the work done to it by myself and the previous owner. he put a '91 Camaro 350 into it and then ran it into the ground. i got it back to running. bought it for 500, put 1000 into it. if it wasnt for the sheer weight it would blow the doors off things from a stop. as it is it blows past them in 4th. it's a matter of finding something worth working on and with the internet. these days it's pretty easy to do it yourself or find people who can help
That truck actually sounds pretty sweet. I wish I had a cheaper car that I wouldn't mind working on, but otherwise I'm too worried that I'll break something doing it myself. Thanks for agreeing with me by the way. I was just trying to say that for the same money, you can have something just as good from a foreign manufacturer.
shows what i know, I just swapped out my fronts to back to ease my suspicions, and indeed, the dunlops are good for nothing except smoke. but for a daily driver and pretty much no track days, the bridgestones IMO would be a good median
Every single tire in this test would outperform both of the tires you mentioned. This was a 200 tw test. The tires you mention are in the 300's (longer wearing, less sticky.)
The BMW was spoken about @6:00 into the video. They used the driver's own words to make the title more exciting. But no, the BMW wasn't driven in this one, just referenced.
BMW Turbo V8s have plenty of torque. My point was that the M3's V8 has a torque deficiency when compared to traditional muscle cars. Not to say that there's anything wrong with the M3's engine (it is how it is). Just clarifying that the lower torque rating of M3 would not allow me to classify it as a muscle car (as suggested by a previous commenter).
honestly probably not too much, BMWs are very well set up from the factory suspension wise. they aren't car cars but probably close too being on par with that satellite. You could go all out and convert the satellite to IRS and lower the un-sprung weight. but i think this is more about showing a car thats over 40 years old can be good with some chassis tuning and tires
I have a 97 328i with adjustable Coilovers, I've cycled between Bridgestone potenza re760s and Dunlop dz101, the potenza is world's better, I wish they would have tried the re760
Why does he have 2 breathers connected together? Doesn't that defeat the point of crank case ventilation? By sucking in air from both sides, it doesn't have a place to escape.
So I have a question - the Dunlop Direzza ZII worked best for the muscle car in question. What interests me is how much does the car, suspension, and all other dynamics of the car being tested effect the performance of the tires. Of the tires tested, is that same Dunlop Direzza ZII going to be the absolute best for other muscle car applications: say a factory like restored (so OEM suspended) '69 Firebird (okay, I know that's a "Pony" car), a street prepped Chevy Nomad with a big block, or how about Roadkills General Mayham?
Well, I suppose the cars I quoted normally wouldn't be used for autocrossing. A restored '69 Firebird would probably be used for cruse nights, and mostly shows, a street prepped Chevy Nomad would be used for drag racing, General Mayhem for....Well, everything (I'm sure Freiburger and Finnegan would be chomping to do anything with General Mayhem). Okay, so then how those same tires on the BMW 3 series for the same form of autocrossing - is it still the best tire for it?
I’m having a Hotchkis full suspension upgrade done to my 69 Super Bee, and from the research I’ve done, if tires are not able to keep contact with the road the benefits will be negligible. Obviously they are better than stock tires but with the upgrades, the handling will be miles better than stock and as you see from the video 1 second per lap better than the bench mark 3 series that Tire Rack uses themselves. That plus the added bonuses of being safer, more accurate, better stance, greater selection of wheels and tires it’s a no brainer, especially if it’s a car you plan to keep, and even if you decide to flip it the upgrades will pay dividends in the long run because most muscle cars are now fetching a premium, and even more so for guys that actually want to drive them instead of looking at them.
thats a good point! with adding a bit of power and dumping the conti pro contact or Pirelli p zero/p7 if you have a wheel upgrade in favor for some true sport tires. but i hope you do build a cobra and use a 5.0 that would be an awesome combo, only seen a few with that set up. I hope you do decide to build one. you can save me and message me when ever. I am looking too order a coupe from them and try to shoe horn a 3rd or 4th gen viper engine in it. might be too much tho.
Why wasn't the Continental ExtremeContact DW in the mix-up? I have those and love them to pieces! I used to be able to do a burnout in my car with the stock tires, now I cant with the Continental ExtremeContact DW
In order to know what engine is in the BMW that Tire Rack uses, you would need to know which model/trim of 3 Series they employ. For an all around test, they probably use the following a 320i,335i, 325xDrive, and possibly an M3. This would just about cover the gambit of driver's options for cars. Go to BMW.com and chack the specs on the models.
I don't think so, M3's have understeer issues in stock form and that is a short course which means you cant really show case the M3's V8, I think a lower HP car like an MX-5 would be able to be quicker then both.
Stock BMW slower than purpose build auto-x car. Good to know. Revolutionary thinking there. Haha. Lets see how much faster the 3'er would be with springs, sways, shocks, upgraded IC, DP and a tune :)
Didmt I sjust see that car go into an S curve? Oh wasnt that right there a left turn then go right into a right turn... Man I cant beleive how stright that course is!
400 RB block about $500. Aluminum 440 heads $1200, 8 & 3/4 Sure-Grip $500-700. Any four door 70's era Mopar muscle car, probably a little over junking price, $2500 at the most. Get suspension upgrades from genuine Mopar know how places to rebuild and upgrade 4k at the most. electric fuel pump and MSD ignition no more than 2k. Machine work for a 400 block and a stroker kit 2k. I'm counting at least 20k left in my pocket to spend on gas, smoking German makes and models.
Great video . glad to see testing on good old american muscle as opposed to the euro crap that regular people can't afford. Less talking and more car footage would be nice though.. Good job mt
First, thank you for this comparo. This is the sort of thing that is needed, more regular comparisons of tires. Details on the results (G-loads, stopping distances, acceleration rates, etc.) would have also been nice. Doing tests comparing other aftermarket upgrades would also be good, like rotor changes, brake pads, anti-roll bars, etc. One point. The Michelin Pilot Super Sport is NOT a 200-treadwear rated extreme performance tire. It is a 300-treadwear rated max performance tire WITH a 30000 mile warranty. And it still smoked the RE-11 and NT05 in the dry. In the wet, the MPSS would have smoked them all. I assume the Super Sport was included out of curiosity. If so, it just demonstrates what a remarkable tire it is. Guess I'd better save them pennies, cause Michelins aren't cheap.
Why do people always say that the cars around this time period are heavy? They really weren't heavy at all.
Fun Fact! That Satellite weighs the same as a 2013 3 series! Possibly less!
I appreciate his "There is no replacement for displacement" remark." reference.
Tire; check, Rack; check, alright we're good here.
rack rack rack, thats all i can remember... and something about tyres ;) cool vid, hot presenter
Would love to see this video concept done right: Get this tuned 440 Satellite and pair it up with another '68-70 B-body (Belvedere/Satellite, FTW!) running stock suspension and P205/70s on Mopar 15x7" police steelies. Run a comparison, then find out how much it takes to improve the suspension of the stocker under different circumstances, e.g.: How much can be done on a budget vs. How much can be done without swapping out the 15" tires for low profile, etc.
And get Fri and Finn to host it. Then you've got something.
P.S. Elana shouldn't have to make a video and then tolerate all the stupid horn dogs in the comments section. Someone should clean up this mess out of respect to her. Send them packing off to one of the many other video sites that cater to their needs.
P.P.S.: Would be nice to know the complete list of the suspension build on that Satellite. Wouldn't mind doing something similar on my '68 Satellite (also a 4-door, and also that same Chrysler "Someone Ordered Too Much Medium Green" Medium Green).
Contact Firmfeel.com
th-cam.com/video/0aSPWQknPYI/w-d-xo.html.
@@passinggear Caster is good, but not the only element. Currently running 5-6ish-degrees of caster with Firm Feel tubular UCAs on an otherwise stock '68 and though it's better, it certainly doesn't handle anywhere near the definition of "well."
Give an old muscle car modern suspension and wider, stickier tires, and the improvement in performance and handling will surprise you.
Yeah, doc that boat was totally stable. Uncharacteristic and impressive, and no doubt expensive.
Tim othy
Don't forget a sway bar, those damn things are lifesavers if you have a land-boat for a car.
couldn't agree more, jr540123, about sway bars; and affordable. my 64 fairlane 4 door would benefit greatly
Tim othy
Same with my F-150, if I had a set of sway bars and some good racing tires I could hold some insane corners in that truck.
Great to see a Satellite handle like a go cart!
Thanks Elana Good video!
Still one of my favorite videos Hotrod has done. Love seeing the old Mopar making the curves. Now do the same for a pro-touring '79 C10! :-)
This is a pretty cool concept for a test. Pro touring cars are all about the tires and suspension.
Good vid! I loved the sound of that stroked B-block.
I love seeing this 4-door rock it! I have the same car (see videos of her on my page ;) but it's just a stock 318 with a 4-barrel carb upgraded from a 2-barrel and a Flowmaster Super 40 exhaust. It's awesome to see one all muscle'd up like this one. People usually don't appreciate the classic 4-doors enough!
That man is trying so hard to maintain eye contact. Kudos to you, sir.
Woody has the best job. Ever.
i love the fact that they didn't cut out the fail drift
That Satellite is freakin awesome
There was alot wrong with this episode, but let me tell ya, watching the Satellite drift was pretty sick.
This was Racktastic.
Exactly!!! I've seen her before on other forums, but didn't know the rack she was holding onto.
You know this ... make this show all that more fun. ta blesses Arek
Im sure she is SUPER happy you decided to point that out
All I saw was a rack, periodically interrupted by some car stuff.
Thank you.
1 second is an eternity.
2:30 in other words you've turned a stop light showpony into an actual track-ready car.
nice that they showed him putting it in the rubarb near the end too , not all perfect like most shows .
Ya totally.
Same here, but I can't decide whether to build just a beastly cobra or a DDR GT8, I priced out both builds and if I assembled them the DDR would be around 50 and an N/A MK4 would be 55, with a 800+ BHP SC one being around 65, but I would end up dying with that much power on tap! I also looked into the daytona, beautiful but I think the Cobra just speaks to me more, however, a viper V10 in there, just wow! I can't imagine, I'd love that!! You should see if it'd work!
BMW motors are notoriously known for being low torque high revving engines. They are very efficient power plants tho. I work for a local dealer as a tech, and when i went to training my instructor ran an s85 V10 on a test stand with no oil for 10 minutes before it locked up. once it cooled down it would turn over but it was shot. when we tore it down we found that there was minimum damage to the rotating assembly the bearings took most the brunt, goes to show how well they are engineered
that is the most bad-ass 4 door
No problem man! Cool, I've been looking for some opinions on em!
That's one badass taxi
4 door looks dope :) ♥
Pro touring is where its at for muscle cars, see the hundreds of build threads on lateral-g and pro-touring. Some of the cars being built will make your head spin!
thought I would see it going head to head with a bmw
HEY THANKS! I 100% recommend the MK4. When i started looking into building mine, FFR was still kinda so so, they attached the body to the chassis in part with 4 bolts on either side of the body down by the side pipe, that could be seen and it just looked awful i thought. so i went a different route. And i was still in high school with just over 5 grand, and the company i went with was really cool about allowing me to buy what i needed as i needed it and not a "starter kit" that was 10k plus
Love this beast!! I know he says he built it just because he had it sitting around but it's good to see the classic 4-doors being represented! I have a '70 4-door, as well (check her out on my channel), and I could only hope to have it ride this awesome one day. Little bit at a time!
“LOOK I’M WOODY!!!! HOWDY HOWDY HOWDY!”
“Ahhh haaa ahh haaa GIMMY DAT!”
I used tire rack to help choose my tires, couldn't be happier, still got the tires elsewhere as the package was cheaper. Their comparisons are very helpful and that matters a lot when shelling out $350+ a tire.
You sir...have won the internet.
this is a 10:40 commercial for TireRack.
The roadkill guys should take over the channel.
i own a truck that's had all the work done to it by myself and the previous owner. he put a '91 Camaro 350 into it and then ran it into the ground. i got it back to running. bought it for 500, put 1000 into it. if it wasnt for the sheer weight it would blow the doors off things from a stop. as it is it blows past them in 4th.
it's a matter of finding something worth working on and with the internet. these days it's pretty easy to do it yourself or find people who can help
That unit has a nice set of headlights.
If I was the cameraman shooting this video, this vid would have been based on an entirely different rack
lol thought it was just me getting that commercial every time
lol looks like Kevin needs some drifting lessons hahaha
It's not misleading. All of Tire Rack's videos they make about tires are used on the current BMW 3 series.
Nice carbon Fiber earings ! Very cool
Very nice! Very nice!
CRAAAAAZY TAXI
Great! I love 4 doors. They get to much hate for no real reason.
I find that woman really attractive....
That truck actually sounds pretty sweet. I wish I had a cheaper car that I wouldn't mind working on, but otherwise I'm too worried that I'll break something doing it myself.
Thanks for agreeing with me by the way. I was just trying to say that for the same money, you can have something just as good from a foreign manufacturer.
shows what i know, I just swapped out my fronts to back to ease my suspicions, and indeed, the dunlops are good for nothing except smoke.
but for a daily driver and pretty much no track days, the bridgestones IMO would be a good median
Great video Elana!
Every single tire in this test would outperform both of the tires you mentioned. This was a 200 tw test. The tires you mention are in the 300's (longer wearing, less sticky.)
I always thought the oil pan was the only thing that touches the road.. Wowzers
That tire rack is 5 minutes from my house, wish i would have known Hot Rod was there.
The BMW was spoken about @6:00 into the video. They used the driver's own words to make the title more exciting. But no, the BMW wasn't driven in this one, just referenced.
ROADKILL! NOW!!!
BMW Turbo V8s have plenty of torque. My point was that the M3's V8 has a torque deficiency when compared to traditional muscle cars. Not to say that there's anything wrong with the M3's engine (it is how it is). Just clarifying that the lower torque rating of M3 would not allow me to classify it as a muscle car (as suggested by a previous commenter).
Nice to see the Detroit iron run with the Eurotrash.
I didn't mind our hostess with the mostess either.
"oh no it's not the right brand you cant do that"...
....but honestly that is a great idea
honestly probably not too much, BMWs are very well set up from the factory suspension wise. they aren't car cars but probably close too being on par with that satellite. You could go all out and convert the satellite to IRS and lower the un-sprung weight. but i think this is more about showing a car thats over 40 years old can be good with some chassis tuning and tires
If I have to hear that ONE MORE TIME...
Are those Carbon Fiber Earings? Awesome!
What, an M3 would destroy that car. They use regular 3 series as testing cars which is why this beast posted better times.
LOVE THIS CAR. Nice!
9:25 Dunlap? Is that a new brand of tire? Hee Hee.
I saw it at Carlisle last July!!!!!
It is not because it's missing an essential piece. It's gotta be cheap and affordable to the general public.
I have a 97 328i with adjustable Coilovers, I've cycled between Bridgestone potenza re760s and Dunlop dz101, the potenza is world's better, I wish they would have tried the re760
Why does he have 2 breathers connected together?
Doesn't that defeat the point of crank case ventilation?
By sucking in air from both sides, it doesn't have a place to escape.
I love the plymouth :)
Nice video, but it's still comparing apples and rocking chairs.
So I have a question - the Dunlop Direzza ZII worked best for the muscle car in question. What interests me is how much does the car, suspension, and all other dynamics of the car being tested effect the performance of the tires. Of the tires tested, is that same Dunlop Direzza ZII going to be the absolute best for other muscle car applications: say a factory like restored (so OEM suspended) '69 Firebird (okay, I know that's a "Pony" car), a street prepped Chevy Nomad with a big block, or how about Roadkills General Mayham?
Well, I suppose the cars I quoted normally wouldn't be used for autocrossing. A restored '69 Firebird would probably be used for cruse nights, and mostly shows, a street prepped Chevy Nomad would be used for drag racing, General Mayhem for....Well, everything (I'm sure Freiburger and Finnegan would be chomping to do anything with General Mayhem). Okay, so then how those same tires on the BMW 3 series for the same form of autocrossing - is it still the best tire for it?
I’m having a Hotchkis full suspension upgrade done to my 69 Super Bee, and from the research I’ve done, if tires are not able to keep contact with the road the benefits will be negligible.
Obviously they are better than stock tires but with the upgrades, the handling will be miles better than stock and as you see from the video 1 second per lap better than the bench mark 3 series that Tire Rack uses themselves.
That plus the added bonuses of being safer, more accurate, better stance, greater selection of wheels and tires it’s a no brainer, especially if it’s a car you plan to keep, and even if you decide to flip it the upgrades will pay dividends in the long run because most muscle cars are now fetching a premium, and even more so for guys that actually want to drive them instead of looking at them.
thats a good point! with adding a bit of power and dumping the conti pro contact or Pirelli p zero/p7 if you have a wheel upgrade in favor for some true sport tires. but i hope you do build a cobra and use a 5.0 that would be an awesome combo, only seen a few with that set up. I hope you do decide to build one. you can save me and message me when ever. I am looking too order a coupe from them and try to shoe horn a 3rd or 4th gen viper engine in it. might be too much tho.
You juvy deelinquints. Do you read the mag? She owns drives and knows cool cars! Thats what i like. Easy on the eyes is just a nice upgrade.
One word... TORQUE!!!
Why wasn't the Continental ExtremeContact DW in the mix-up? I have those and love them to pieces! I used to be able to do a burnout in my car with the stock tires, now I cant with the Continental ExtremeContact DW
Give us more Roadkill!
This is the breast video ever!
So fucking true :)
Outrunning a BMW with a Muscle Car, till you go in the corners
In order to know what engine is in the BMW that Tire Rack uses, you would need to know which model/trim of 3 Series they employ. For an all around test, they probably use the following a 320i,335i, 325xDrive, and possibly an M3. This would just about cover the gambit of driver's options for cars. Go to BMW.com and chack the specs on the models.
firm feel stuff
You have them
she got... WOW love it
AWESOME !!!!!!!!!
She's dreamy.New girl is down to earth.Wussup? Rebuild at 440 one more time.
LOL you need CHRIS HARRIS to burn up those tires drifting.
I don't think so, M3's have understeer issues in stock form and that is a short course which means you cant really show case the M3's V8, I think a lower HP car like an MX-5 would be able to be quicker then both.
Stock BMW slower than purpose build auto-x car. Good to know. Revolutionary thinking there. Haha. Lets see how much faster the 3'er would be with springs, sways, shocks, upgraded IC, DP and a tune :)
Didmt I sjust see that car go into an S curve? Oh wasnt that right there a left turn then go right into a right turn... Man I cant beleive how stright that course is!
Nice tips I guess
400 RB block about $500. Aluminum 440 heads $1200, 8 & 3/4 Sure-Grip $500-700. Any four door 70's era Mopar muscle car, probably a little over junking price, $2500 at the most. Get suspension upgrades from genuine Mopar know how places to rebuild and upgrade 4k at the most. electric fuel pump and MSD ignition no more than 2k. Machine work for a 400 block and a stroker kit 2k. I'm counting at least 20k left in my pocket to spend on gas, smoking German makes and models.
i had to get ad blocker after listening to that about a thousand times
3:54 , I want you to spit shine those rims ELANA.
Great video . glad to see testing on good old american muscle as opposed to the euro crap that regular people can't afford. Less talking and more car footage would be nice though.. Good job mt
First, thank you for this comparo. This is the sort of thing that is needed, more regular comparisons of tires. Details on the results (G-loads, stopping distances, acceleration rates, etc.) would have also been nice. Doing tests comparing other aftermarket upgrades would also be good, like rotor changes, brake pads, anti-roll bars, etc.
One point. The Michelin Pilot Super Sport is NOT a 200-treadwear rated extreme performance tire. It is a 300-treadwear rated max performance tire WITH a 30000 mile warranty. And it still smoked the RE-11 and NT05 in the dry. In the wet, the MPSS would have smoked them all. I assume the Super Sport was included out of curiosity. If so, it just demonstrates what a remarkable tire it is.
Guess I'd better save them pennies, cause Michelins aren't cheap.
I wish more classic 4 doors would see this attention
Damn that road runners nice we have a 70 dodge charger
Can't find anything about this on rot rod.com. Is it not up yet? Will there be a write up in the magazine?