Raise her DPS to be a potential average that includes headshots but make her auto aim damage start low and raise with consistent contact, that way if she warps, orbs, switches targets, or breaks LOS her damage gets low again balancing her out with characters that reload and need to aim. Then they can raise her healing since it will need to be planned better.
The problem Moira has is that she was designed to heal grouped up brawl comps with 2-3 tanks and then they both implemented role lock which reduced her efficacy and then replaced 6v6 with 5v5 which basically killed her best use cases as a healer. Implementing 6v6 probably helps her immediately get more value.
@@Ren21727 so 5v5 has taken a character designed to heal multiple tanks but with low utility and then taken away the one thing they are good at. Got it.
@@Shortstop803 Are you f****** stupid or what? In ow 6v6 where we HAD mntas with multi tanks, Moira was NEVER meta And in 5v5 with 1 tank, Moira STILL hasnt ever been meta. It doesnt matter what the comp is, shes trash cause she has no utility. She was never "good" at healing multiple tanks cause she was NEVER utilised like that. Give me one meta comp where people played her for her multi tank healing in 6v6. Ill wait.
My hot take is that having mechanics should be a defacto requirement for being in the top ranks, so "low skill" charecters like moira shouldnt be balanced around fitting in at those top ranks. She will be played in the lower ranks no matter the case.
I dont think thats a hot take, tbh there should be hero bans and she shouldnt even be allowed in comp. Shes not strong at all but her non-skilled abilities dont belong in a competitive shooter period.
Not saying I fully disagree, but by that logic, Winston, Reinhardt and to a lesser extent Brigitte shouldn't be popular in the top ranks (I do get Winston requires mechanics for primal but the overarching point being that Moira's skill expression is extremely hard to see if you're not somebody like Arx, Fairytail, or one of the handful of actually good moira players)
@@Kajor1 Yeah thats a good point, I probably should have better defined “low skill” better. I meant hero’s that have a more accommodating kit than most, for example Moira can be played in many different ways and can still output damage and healing, as opposed to characters like Rein or Winston who at least require a specific style of play to get value.
@@Kajor1I think the top comment actually meant skill expression. IMO Moira’s skill expression is hard to see because the general skill ceiling is so low. You can push past it but what you get out of it is minuscule compared to the effort put in. That skill curve is nowhere near the level of Brig or Winston IMO
Devs do not understand moira, she is a sustained long fight hero, similar to symmetra, nerfing her hp literally makes no sense, she cannot one shot or two-tap ANYONE like other nerfed heroes, such as echo or kiriko, al she does is tickle you to death, if she cant sustain herself enough to make this playstyle viable, then her design makes no sense at all
It was bad design from jump, whether they understand or not. Making a hero these easy because they struggle against tracer on support is hilarious, this is how brigette was designed, both designed to be one dimensional
Just bad hero design, she cant teamwork well with other duo to her short range and bad healing, an autoaim that has sniper range and no falloff damage that can even solo kill dps, it is like dev try to create a toxic hero that wanna ruin everyone, her teammate and her enemy day
@@SecureBirch410 that mean her healing has short range and her right click has sniper range and her kit dont have any utility for team fight aside from being annoying
Unhealthy hero for the game, should just rework to raise her skill floor. Nobody enjoys playing against Moira. Constant spammy damage orbs, fade, auto aim with zero utility is just garbage game design.
She's more of a skill check against other people, if you die to a moira its on you, pretty much any DPS should be able to 1v1 her now with the increased hitbox and her reduced healing
@@Ahmoxdar That's..... not what I'm talking about....? I'm making a point about Moira's gameplay loop. A damage orb being sent towards you with no risk involved gives her free ultimate charge and slowly ticks down your health, forcing either a healer to act or making you wait for your health to regenerate. This isn't me struggling to kill Moira, it's an annoying aspect of the gameplay loop, It's irritating. That doesn't mean Moira is inherently a problem to deal with. 9/10 times her damage orb isn't used as a zoning ability, it's just annoying spam.
@@Ahmoxdarskill check? Maybe people don't wanna be skill checked when they just wanna open up overwatch and play the cool cyborg ninja. Have you ever tried to introduce a normie to overwatch? Its a bloody hellscape, I mean no one wants to play a game where the strat is to use turrets, bastion and moira. Marvel rivals shows you can have easier heros like namore and scarlet witch without being so brain dead that even a mentally deficient squirrel could play 😂 When these same friends of mine play mr, they dont even bring up scarlet witch or namore because these heros aren't must picks in the lower ranks, you aren't slapped in the face with these heros every single game you play because there's an actual skill curve in the game where some heros are easier and some are harder not some play for you and some require you to invest your afterlife into it to learn it like doomfist and tracer vs Moira and torb is stretching that skill curve to its max 😂
Some thoughts on Moira: - Decreasing the target acquisition of her beam to something similar to Sym and Zarya is a bit boring, but does go a long way in increasing expression of mechanical skill. I think an option that could also achieve that is making the beam's damage scale down the further away you are from the target's centre-mass. - I think it would be flavourful to the character to introduce a passive based around damage-over-time and healing reduction. Last month I came up with such a passive: Parasitic Entropy (Although, Entropic Parasitism could also work). If Moira deals damage to a target for a total of 2 seconds, she inflicts them with a tiny DoT that reduces their healing received. 5 damage per second, for 5 seconds, healing received reduced by 10% (5% for Tanks) during that time. Moira heals herself for the same amount. During Coalescence, the damage and heal reduction are each doubled. - The Mobile Hero HP nerf not hitting Genji because it would ruin him makes sense. I think the same logic should probably be extended to Moira.
your idea is what they showed in Junkensteins lab but for reducing damage received, and honestly, I reckon a toned down version will come to the game at some point, giving her some actual utility behind survivability and would be a good idea and addition
Hp nerf and DPS passive buffed killed her for me. I'm a Kiriko one trick who would swap to Moira on those situations that i needed to duel/survive more. But after those nerfs? Legit no reason to pick her over Kiriko. They should revert her Hp back, that be a good start
Oh no the easiest hero to play with absolutely no mechanical skill needed is not meta in the pro environment, how sad and surprising. If Moira stays as is I want her to keep getting nerfed, she has a toxic kit that doesn't belong to overwatch and every single match with her in it (in either teams that is) is a less enjoyable one. The way she looks sounds and her personality is great so I hope we'll see a rework which raises her skill floor, I dig the idea of a flanker duelist support, just make her need to hit stuff to win a duel and remove that spam ball since we are at it
okay okay I know this is crrazy but honestly the fact that the game is 5v5 encourages flanker moira behavior. To be fair, it's not like some moira players werent still doing that in 6v6, BUT it just was the incorrect play 99% of the time tbh, like the moiras who ignored their team would just lose. But now in 5v5, the polarization of healers either being a third dps or healbot is very noticeable. Moira was realeased at a much different time in overwatch's life and she wasn't exactly regarded highly during that time, either, but she wasn't so problematic because 6v6 was just differently suited for her. I actually was a good Moira player on ps4, I was very high ranking, peaking at over 4500 in season 12. I wasn't up there along with tons of other Moira players. who were just abusing another "low skill hero." No, it was just me, and maybe the next best Moira was 4100 or so, but most don't make it out of masters (to be fair, most players dont make it out of masters at all). My point is, I didn't win games by leaving my team to go duel the enemy dps (even on console). I won games by coordinating my teammates and encouraging them to play and group in a way that benefits Moira. I knew how to use her kit to the maximum efficiency that I was capable of, and I was good at it. I didn't have to worry about the enemy Moira being better than me. And most non-Moira players couldn't compare with the healing and damage I was doing. I knew how to craft the game into a situation where the enemy team wouldn't be able to overcome slowly losing the war of attrition in every fight. The enemy tank knowing that in every engagement, his team is slowly losing. And that's what Moira was all about to me. Winning the numbers war. It made a lot of sense to me, how to eat away at the enemy team. It fits with her character. Unfortunately with the change into 5v5, engagements became very quickly decided. It doesn't matter how good you are at Moira, you can't win against a good widowmaker, for example. And this was always the case to be fair, but now, Moira players are actually trying to go take out the enemy widow, leaving their teams in the process. It makes sense, tbh, but is a very unfortunate side effect. Widow is just one example, but you get my point. A lot of your agency as the Moira was taken away. Moira's win condition in 6v6 was winning the numbers game over the enemy supports. But in 5v5, that doesn't really matter when one pick turns each fight into a near-hopeless 4v5. She can't prevent her teammates from getting deleted, so her next best option is to just go get kills herself. Already, even in 6v6, the team who gets the first pick usually wins the fight. This is even MORE so the case in 5v5. A 4v5 is much harder to win than a 5v6. Changing the main format of the game from 5v5 to 6v6 will alleviate much of the problem. Although I will still admit that even role locking 2-2-2 hurt Moira considerably. Triple tank with a Moira was certainly powerful lol.
I think the argument is just to make moira bad as in better relatively to her current self but still bad, but not really really bad and people can't seem to, or choose not to grasp that and just act obtuse. its not more complicated than that. You wanna talk about skill expression? then revert the hitscan and projectile hitboxes completely back, that requires more skill after all which is what's being emphasized so much here... They made them larger quite literally to "baby" you the player and make you more satisfied and to play the game more, they said it themselves when they first made them into bowling balls flying at peoples heads. so yes they baby you, just like they do moira players You as a player are not good enough generally to "outgrow" moira being in your games at all in diamond if you're a diamond player which is what's happening now. It's a skill check and if you pass that and hit your shots fine you should see her less and less at the top level as you get better. I wouldn't bet on them ever removing her or ever getting around to any kind of meaningful rework so she should function at some capacity yes
Im gonna be controversial and say that moiras hero design is actually okay. Shes a beam character, her secondary isnt autolock its just the animation that makes it look like that. She has to be near allies to heal them and can only heal from a distance on a cooldown which requires a skill throw to get max value out of She trades any cc or supportive utility for the ability to keep herself alive and continueously provide heals to the team which is a fair trade She has no true burst healing unless shes comboing a cooldown with her normal heals or using her ult, but nothing in her kit is anything like suzu or any of baps cooldowns Does she require insane aim to use? No. But not every character in the game should need that. Moira shows skill through positioning and cooldown management. There isnt anything that id say is overly unhealthy given that her time to kill without a damage orb helping is rather long and even then shes not going to be able to solo a tank, she does no burst damage so theres always time for your own supports to step in and help. Sure, she more difficult to dive, but thats her place in the support roster, it would be unfair to support players if there was no one they could switch to in order to deal with getting constantly dived, esspecially with dps having like, double the roaster choices compared to support The only balance change i would make is to increase the rate of fuel used when healing to really make it feel like theres a resource that has to be managed, i rarely ever find myself out of fuel at a critical moment and im always looking to heal on moira when i play her (the heal sound on her mythic skin pleases my ears)
4:00 crazy how people are still saying it was a Dva issue when it was 100% because of Juno and the speed ring bug. Even Emongg has talked about this and how they went too far nerfing Dva and now she feels like paper mache meanwhile Juno still remains basically untouched outside of a small nerf to her ult and has been a hard meta pick since her release. It's brain rotted takes like this that get the fun tanks nerfed and keeps us in rotating Mauga/Orisa metas.
Her healing is way too low right now. I can't do much but hold the heal and once it runs out I basically become useless since the tank isn't even healed much. Considering the new DPS passive and her nerfs, this season hit her hard.
I mean it’s been the same issue for 8 years but just gotta remind ourselves it’s just a video game. Casuals wont know or care unfortunately. also gotta have easy heros for players with bad mechanics. The devs don’t care about what’s fun to play against. They release heros like Moira because they think it is get out of jail card from tracer genji but in reality swapping Moira just lowers your winrate…
I‘ve been a top 500 moira player for years now, here‘s my take: Though it breaks my heart to see how bad she is, for the overall health of the game it‘s probably better that way. She’s very fun to play and you can do some cool fade jumps but nobody wants to see a low skill ceiling character like moira in the ladders or in pro play. At times I had people throw the game or afk simply because I played that character…
@@eliwinn481 what does playing on Switch have to do with anything? All consoles play in the same pool and the best supports on console are Bap because of ximmers that are still an issue, and Mercy because she can afk pocket a ximming hitscan dps.
one thing i don't see people mention often in these videos is accessibility. characters like moira definitely should exist, but differently if that makes sense. many players deal with tremors or other disabilities that could prevent them from playing other characters, characters like moira make the game more accessible. HOWEVER the characters that lack the need for aim most times definitely need some drawbacks, like nerf her range on attacking. make her orbs more needed for damage or require her to get closer TO damage, there's a line between accessibility and just things being plain unfun. i don't think the devs get that
Genji didn’t get the hp nerf because he’s a burst damage hero that got hit HARD by every target having +25 or +50hp. They could buff his dash damage to 75hp to offset a health nerf to 225hp, but then that would make all 250hp heroes an instakill with nanoblade slash+dash again, which I think the devs wanted to put an end to. The only way to keep genji viable with those S9 changes, without that instakill combo being left in, was to make him a bit tankier.
You know an easy way blizzard could fix this is by removing the dps passive on self sustaining abilities and forms of healing and only leave the passive for raw healing done by supports. Then for heros that have no hitbox benefits revert there hitboxs back.
even i felt the hp nerf and i’m just a plat, moira went from not meta but viable to unplayable on an even playing field outside of very specific matchups (countering certain heroes like genji or going after a really weak backline)
without doing a full rework or adding utility the only way to fix her is to either a) make her hitbox smaller - dang that thing is chunky and makes her take a lot of dmg, which is something she could handle before the hitbox and dps passive changes - or b) just give her 250 hp again and see how that fleshes out before any further adjustments
Personally I'm really happy, that moira is neglected, and imo until she stays how she is, the Moira problem won't be her place in the meta (until she stays as far away from it as possible), but her kit, as it is, is just the worst thing that has left the ow dev team's hands. I hate Moira with a passion, and until she get's a full on rework, (nut just an extra pig pen, but at least half of her kit completely changed), I would like to see her in the dumpster!
flat nerf from 250hp to 225hp, dps passive as a proxy nerf, ages ago, armour gets flat 30% reduction from beams INCLUDING Moira's for some reason so she does even less damage to armour vs health. Hitbox increases, pretty much the nerfs were mostly proxy
@ none of that is even specific to Moira. I mean somebody could make the argument for the HP bit… but that hand was used against mobile heroes in general. Let’s keep this specifically about Moira. Since Season 9 Moira has: -Gone from 200hp to 250hp to 225hp. -Grasp went from 50dps to 65, down to 60, then BACK to 65dps -Grasp self heal increased from 24 to 30 -Coalescence self heal went from 50 to 55 and it’s dps went from 70 to 85.
I get so confused why hero’s that have the lowest pick and win rate get nerfs but they prioritize hit scan heros. Symmetra and Moira are the 2 main hero’s I can think of that have constantly gotten nerfs for no reason.
because they require less aim. majority of the playerbase dont want heroes like torb, mercy, moira, etc to be as strong as ashe or tracer (except for tanks)
@@Megggazap People incorrectly focus on surface level things like aim requirements. Mercy is a good example of a hero that has low aim requirements, but does that mean Mercy's skill floor is low? Of course not. To reach any respectable elo, you must have excellent awareness, gamesense, target priority, etc. Just like any other hero. Moira is not an "instant win" pick like some might suggest. She never really was. Even when Moira was best back in GOATS meta days, people weren't crushing leaderboards for playing her. If you want to play a game where the player with better aim always wins, don't play overwatch. It was never intended to be that game, but rather a game where players who have great gamesense, awareness, ability usage, teamwork, can overcome "all aim, no brain" players on a level field.
@@mrpacifism209 i dont complain about those heroes. I’m just saying a lot of people do. (i play mercy, sombra, mei, all the annoying badly designed characters)
Issue is neither of those heros have any other form of skill, ow has way to many heros who just are leagues easier than the other heros. Marvel rivals is exposing tf outta the people who always complained that their skilless hero is just hated, because my friends always complained about sym, Moira, sombra, bastion torb and all the normal offenders, and keep in mind most these guys were new when I introduced them to overwatch, just the new player experience in overwatch is abysmal because there's so many cheesy heros, but these same people play marvel rivals and they're playing the marvel rival variants of the ow heros they hated because they just don't find them to be all that cheesy, like my buddy hates torb with a passion, yet he's a namore main in rivals, but it's because namore requires skill, unlike torb, if you want the max value from namore, you gotta land some headshots which power up his turrets vs the target he landed the headshot on, meanwhile torb places hus and forgets its exists as it solos entire lobbies in silver, as he runs off to solo a tank. Ow just has no concept of what a skill curve is in balancing lol People don't want all high skill heros, they just want a relatively balanced skill curve, and the skill curve in ow is so off its actually an impressive feat in of itself, but I guess Jeff Kaplan did say he wanted a complex game that he could make easier over time... and he certainly achieved that goal 😂
They should reduce her base damage and life steal but make her deal double damage and double life steal when aiming at an enemy's centre mass. This adds a significant skill component. It would also be cool if she could lock on to a maximum of two enemies at once, again at the expense of considerably reducing her base damage and life steal. This would make her worse in 1v1s where she is notoriously frustrating to play against yet more potent against 2 or more enemies, kinda like a pseudo Winston. She could only deal critical damage to one enemy at a time by aiming at their centre mass though, so target priority is something the Moira has to consider.
Hero performance (at a high enough level) should be the main factor when it comes to balance. I feel like this should go without saying, yet Blizzard repeatedly nerfs heroes who aren't popular and buffs those who are regardless. To those saying Moira is easy therefore should be worse, what does that even mean ? If a hero is harder to win with, in what world are they easier ? Not only that, but at high ranks the difference in mechanics between players in minimal, everyone hits their shots well enough and has similar accuracies, the only thing left to balance are the numbers. Balancing heroes around lower ranks makes no sense, you're just trying to balance around people inability to properly play, which is impossible. People don't actually care about balance, they just want to play popular/op heroes and want anything else to be completely unplayable. Balancing shouldn't be about making X thing meta or not, but allowing people to have more options based on preference rather than only specific heroes being strong, and creating a more even playing field.
moira is like yuumi in lol: a character with such low skill expression you just can't have them with average stats or you freak out everyone that casually play the game. and i wouldn't be surprised if moira is deliberately maintained in an underpowered state because of that
Agreed. I hate clicked on this thinking it was a rant whining that Moira is broken and wanting her nerfed. Nice to see some recognition that she's getting dumped on. I think the common disdain for her is maybe partly why she's getting ignored, but seeing how Orisa is also largely looked down on, yet keeps getting re-buffed so to bad performance, I think it is just a matter of time. On a side note, why is her life-steal affected by the DPS passive? That isn't traditional healing, like I didn't think Mauga/Reaper got hit did they? Maybe I'm wrong.
A nuisance to have on your team and somewhat annoying as an enemy when you play dive on dps... But I really just wish she got a rework so she can be more useful
Hottake:Moira shouldn't be a High rank Meta because she has no specialty comapring with Kiriko:high dueling potential and a useful team buffing ult. Bap:better vertical mobility and long fight sustain. Ana:CC and debuffing with better healing output. Zen:debuffing and lethality.
Why would moira not receive the hp nerf but Bap would when he has no mobility ability… There’s absolutely nothing wrong with Moria getting the hp nerf because she has great mobility with fade and two self sustain mechanics in her kit. The issue with her is purely her low skill floor and ceiling. The changes in the creator experimental mode allowing her to headshot should be implemented since it rewards good aim and allows her to duel better given the moira player is good at tracking. If they lower her base damage per second to 60 dps and decrease the attach rate they can give her a 1.5 headshot damage multiplier and moira will have more skill expression and will have a much higher skill ceiling
its good Moira is bad, for the health of the game. nobody wants to watch moira in pro play. literally not a single person wants to see that. there are so many other supports with so much skill expression why would anyone choose to play moira? I think the problem you mentioned about auto aim heroes shouldn't be meta but brought up winston and rein, you're forgetting what makes Moira unhealthy, its her ability to self sustain while being a low ceiling character. If Moira is meta, it will be very unfun for most players other than Moira players. The devs can't allow that to happen. Genji, a high mobility character you mentioned in the video, doesn't fall under this category. he's a well designed dps and nobody really hates playing against a genji. Genji is healthy for the game so the devs are perfectly fine with him being strong. The best Winston players have so much more to think about than Moira players because they can't just fade away when they're slept or anti by an ana or booped by a brig. Everything about Moira is problematic. Her fade, her auto aim, her self sustain.
Genji's ability to deflect anything is broken. He depends on that to survive almost always. He has an escape dash, double jump, and can wall climb. Moira only has a fade.
@@TheMandellaEffectbruhGenji also doesn’t have a cleanse or invisibility on his CDs and, here’s the real kicker; has to work 100x harder and put himself in MUCH riskier positions to get value. Moira does not have to take ANY risks to get consistent value and can use her fade purely reactively and not get punished for taking aggressive positions
@@TheMandellaEffectbruhcomparing apples to oranges is crazy. Moira is a healer that does a lot of AOE heals and does consistent beam damage that heals her. genji is a mobile dive burst hero whose damage isn't scaled for power creep and health changes, with a brawl based ultimate that requires a nimble flanker to be close to your target in order to get value, which most of the time leads to death. Moira gets all her value at a safe distance with good sustain. She also requires like no skill unlike genji 😂
@avez I'm not trying to convince you. The fact of the matter is she has a 3% pick rate in grandmaster. Just because your average Genji fan boy thinks otherwise
@@TheMandellaEffectbruh Thats the dumbest take i ever seen holy shit. Deflect is not broken little bro, not only its bypassed by beams but also its value decreases the more uptime it has. Genji can only escape if he gets a kill.
Not every hero has to have an insane mechanic behind, and she’s extremely easy to play against, other than kiriko who can literally 1v1 every dps in the game and get away at anytime from a bad position without being punished for it.
idk but im mad scarlet witch has so much in common w her in rivals, because of that she will never get proper balance, unless she gets reworked of course
Moira is fun hero, do something when you want to chill in the game and dont rely on your teammates. Haters of her are "walking jokes", taking the game too seriously, playing the game for meta and a fake feeling to be good in something, meaning they are useless in real life. Who cares about top 10% of players? Who cares about pro scene? They are jus destroying experience for bottom 90% of playerbase.
Funny for you to said that when overwatch is heavy teamwork game so even you try to solo like that, you cant do anything when your team lose the fight and you hiding like headless chicken try to catch someone with like 50 hp remain
I swear Moira does way to much damage to genji and tracer, she makes those heroes unplayable unless you get close enough to do more damage than her just so she can fade away and use a healing ball just for the process to happen again.
Lol, then you don't play moira. Genji and tracer can delete moira completely in an instantly. Moira takes at least 2 full seconds to kill them with a full orb and perfect tracking. In that time a good tracer will 1 clip you and a good genji can do a right click, dash, melee combo and delete you. Moira is 100% reliant on other people missing shots to kill anyone in a 1v1.
@dash4800 Moira takes about 3 seconds to kill tracer and 4 seconds to kill genji and that's if they don't throw a damage orb and she gains hp when she does damage. And that's what I mean you have to be extremely close to actually do damage to her and if you don't hit your shots you're practically dead
@@L0yalEcho only against really low tier players. Against anyone decent they will melt moira 100% of the time. Her orb heals 65 per second and her grasp does 65 dmg per second. Tracer does 220 dmg per second. So even with an orb on her traver will do 440 dmg in 2 seconds to a moira with 225 hp+120 healing in 2 seconds who can only do 130 dmg over those same 2 seconds. And if you think these numbers don't reflect reality you haven't played in top ranks. Tracers, sombras, genjis, ventures, reapers, will all feast on you at those ranks because they aren't missing shots that much. Watch arx videos and see how often he ever takes 1v1s with high burst dps.
@@dash4800 Yes anyone decent can 1 v 1 her but she’s like impossible to kill. She does 30 damage with her biotic grasp compared to her fast movement. She can 1 v 1 people and get away with it almost all the time. No tracer is going to beat her when she can just rendezvous with her team. She’s not easy to kill is my point
One of the most satisfying feelings once you reach GM is that you never have to play against or with low skill heroes like Moira/Mercy. But here we are complaining about Moira being bad. Crazy.
Do you realize developers review internal stat data instead of GMs whining about on YT? In high levels, people play as 5, most of them can see the fricking zeroes and ones like Matrix, so their effectiveness against Moira is not comparable to the vast majority of players. Most players are around gold-plat, and they play solo or play as 2-3 stack. They experience a completely different game than GMs. It's an extremely difficult task to balance a hero for both general audience and pro play. They'll never be able to get it right. No one ever will in any game similar to this.
I cannot believe I’ve watched a full video promoting a reversal of the Moira nerfs. Low skill heroes should not be viable above Diamond. Leaver her on the metal ranks.
Moira is the epitome of everything wrong with OWs design. Zero skill design. There is no aim. No cooldown management. No ult management. Its incredibly hard to make positioning mistakes, shes literally babys first video game material. Rework her so she actually has to interact with the game.
“Just play Kiriko” EXACTLY! Just play Kiriko, if you like Moira’s playstyle but want to improve at the game just play Kiriko. Leave Moira in the dirt because no one likes this hero and she has an insanely low skill floor, therefore should be a bad hero.
Moira just has too many loud haters. Devs are never gonna do her justice. Moira is one of the most fun heroes in the game, i aways see new players that are not fps nerds pick her as their favorite first hero.
The HP nerf was so unwarranted since they were already adding another broken flex healer creating more competition for Moira to fill that spot, and also because Moira has to play close to her team to sustain them, it’s not like Juno who can play so far away and still keep her team up along with having insane mobility.
personally as a support main i just find her really lame. i've played ever other support for a handful of hours but Moira is just such a sauce less character from a design standpoint. Not fun to play, not fun to fight.
maybe blizzard wants moira to only be good in low to mid ranks, maybe they don't want to give the easiest mechanics more value in high level play? I mean do we really want a auto beam hero be that good?
Moira needs buffs or at least have her nerfs reverted especially her health nerf. Her whole playstyle is having that sustained dmg and healing which allowed her team to keep applying pressure and live due to her high healing but now she cant heal her team well because of the dps passive and she cant help duel dps ir other supports well becuse she can self heal well and cant tank as many shots. Ive been seeing alot of comments about how its good that moira is really bad and she needs to be nerfed more but its always made with bias behind the comment just saying that because they dont like moira. In realness she doesnt need to be so op that she is infecting pro play but she still need to be viable in some form of niche. The hp nerf shouldnt have happend because although she can get out of bad situations with fade the enemy team can just force it out and continue to chase you but then she doesnt have a suzu to tank more or extra mobility to climb walls like kiri once she uses that fade she cant heal herself well because of the dps passive and her dmg is very low so if the enemy hits there shots you are dead its a problem that needs to be fixed regardless if moira is a easy to pick up hero she still need to be viable regardless what people may think if you cant handle a moira now in the awful state she is in it is straight up a skill issue ngl
She is situational already. The situation you play Moira in is if you are dogshit at the game and have almost no skill. That is her niche and it’s fine if she stays there in my mind. If they want to make her more competitively viable she needs a rework to introduce higher skill ceiling mechanics to extract value. Just buffing her numbers on her current kit sounds horrible. If they don’t want to rework her, keep her we the kiddie ride for the window licker players.
Raise the skill ceiling on this character because she’s so fun. I love the fact that you have to be entrusted to make the right decision at all times with Moira or lose
Well, the "target aquisition" is largely a part of the problem. Reward people who actually care to aim, with increase damage on precision, maybe a headshot (crit) multiplier. with healing, reduce the pissing heal, but increase it when it lingers, so you teach moira players to joggle between the piss and damage if 225 hps is here to stay, buff the mobility with increase jump on fade, so you can reach high grounds more easily
As a Moira main who managed to climb to GM, everything you've said was true and I 100% agree with it. Moira was always meant to be the simple, easy to play hero for beginners. And she has honestly suffered because of this. She will never be meta due to lack of game-changing abilities like suzu or immortality, but she wont really ever be bad cuz of the easy and consistent dmg, heals and elims. She is just in the middle, an average hero who most likely will never get a change which she actually needs due to her "averageness". Id like to see her get her necrotic orb back, just to see how she could change the meta. But who am I kidding? This is blizzard we are talking about. Great video btw!
@zuckergolf4442 Why not? Why do you think a character HAS to have a complex kit with a high skill ceiling to be good? Is it because you think it shouldn't be that free? The whole point of Moira was to have a support with a simple kit, who could get good numbers. Why do you think a character like that shouldn't be good? 🤔
This is a good thing in my opinion; I personally don't enjoy having a Moira in my team, I don't like playing against her, her gameplay is boring to watch on all levels, she used to allow bad players to stomp users who are average or play casually (especially below average, see the tiktok Moira meme), and her nerfed status makes enemy supports more fun to fight in higher ranks. These things all encourage picking a more skillful support, at the very least one where aim is a requirement in this FPS... which yes, it doesn't have to be there as shown with Winston and others, but it's surely more welcomed than dying to auto-lock or random silent orb from 9 planets away during a fall back.
I'm ready for Moira to be deleted from the game tbh so this is great. Change Moira's drain grasp into a lvl 1 sym beam, then they can give her some shit back.
Man, you’re literally talking about a “duelist” who doesn’t have to aim. Get her out of the game. The idea is absurd on its face. She has to suck at GM on PC, because if she didn’t, imagine how broken she’d be at gold on console. The whole premise is bad.
Overbuff is very inaccurate and can deviate from dev statements quite drastically. Not to mention the selection bias. Remember back when reaper got buffed and none of the streamers even cared, then he got nerfed again? When he apparently decemated low to mid ranks? Nobody notices these things and it's up to blizzard to be transparent about it. But ultimately it's clear by the massive hate against Moira players are coming from lower ranked players and their opinion is completely valid. Well designed characters should be fair at all skill levels. And demanding and fun heroes shouldn't be gatekept by some shitty free value hero design just because you're not good at it yet This goes both ways. Kiriko is so good in high ranks means she probably struggles in low ranks balancing the winrate out. maybe because she isn't being played "correctly" and loses out on a lot of value? This goes on intuitive game design. However there is very good reason to be optimistic. Blizzard has shown through hazard that they care about balancing the winrate across ranks, not just on average. Which means we can possibly see improvements in skill expression in Moira while also being more demanding for low rank players! Can't wait
Well designed characters that are fair at all skill levels means sojourn shouldn't exist at all yet she does, shes OP but blizz said aight we dont really care, heres a slap on the wrist nerf oh and shes still broken in 6v6
I definitely agree. For her to become better at peak value, would necessitate a rework to her kit, damage, and probably a passive so she isn't too strong in lower ranks (aka requiring more skill to get peak value) but has more utilities in her kit for high ranks. Also, is your profile pick from the Wavves "V" album, or is it just from the Tarot Card?
Moira has aimbot, self healing, intangible mobility on low cooldown, zero risk, an 8 second ult that heals and damages while she's completely safe behind her tank Genji is high skill, high risk, high mobility only if the genji can execute with their mechanics to get dash resets, season 9 made this already awful character worse, has an ult that requires game sense and mechanics that does no damage and gets out healed by basic healing that lasts 6 seconds "The devs seem to not no what they're doing" You don't say
Raise her DPS to be a potential average that includes headshots but make her auto aim damage start low and raise with consistent contact, that way if she warps, orbs, switches targets, or breaks LOS her damage gets low again balancing her out with characters that reload and need to aim.
Then they can raise her healing since it will need to be planned better.
The problem Moira has is that she was designed to heal grouped up brawl comps with 2-3 tanks and then they both implemented role lock which reduced her efficacy and then replaced 6v6 with 5v5 which basically killed her best use cases as a healer. Implementing 6v6 probably helps her immediately get more value.
You say this but even goats she was crap lol
@ That was more a lack of utility than anything.
@@Shortstop803 That hasnt changed.
@@Ren21727 so 5v5 has taken a character designed to heal multiple tanks but with low utility and then taken away the one thing they are good at. Got it.
@@Shortstop803 Are you f****** stupid or what?
In ow 6v6 where we HAD mntas with multi tanks, Moira was NEVER meta
And in 5v5 with 1 tank, Moira STILL hasnt ever been meta.
It doesnt matter what the comp is, shes trash cause she has no utility. She was never "good" at healing multiple tanks cause she was NEVER utilised like that. Give me one meta comp where people played her for her multi tank healing in 6v6. Ill wait.
My hot take is that having mechanics should be a defacto requirement for being in the top ranks, so "low skill" charecters like moira shouldnt be balanced around fitting in at those top ranks. She will be played in the lower ranks no matter the case.
I dont think thats a hot take, tbh there should be hero bans and she shouldnt even be allowed in comp. Shes not strong at all but her non-skilled abilities dont belong in a competitive shooter period.
Not saying I fully disagree, but by that logic, Winston, Reinhardt and to a lesser extent Brigitte shouldn't be popular in the top ranks
(I do get Winston requires mechanics for primal but the overarching point being that Moira's skill expression is extremely hard to see if you're not somebody like Arx, Fairytail, or one of the handful of actually good moira players)
@@Kajor1 winston at least has mechanics in primal idk
@@Kajor1 Yeah thats a good point, I probably should have better defined “low skill” better. I meant hero’s that have a more accommodating kit than most, for example Moira can be played in many different ways and can still output damage and healing, as opposed to characters like Rein or Winston who at least require a specific style of play to get value.
@@Kajor1I think the top comment actually meant skill expression. IMO Moira’s skill expression is hard to see because the general skill ceiling is so low. You can push past it but what you get out of it is minuscule compared to the effort put in. That skill curve is nowhere near the level of Brig or Winston IMO
Devs do not understand moira, she is a sustained long fight hero, similar to symmetra, nerfing her hp literally makes no sense, she cannot one shot or two-tap ANYONE like other nerfed heroes, such as echo or kiriko, al she does is tickle you to death, if she cant sustain herself enough to make this playstyle viable, then her design makes no sense at all
It was bad design from jump, whether they understand or not. Making a hero these easy because they struggle against tracer on support is hilarious, this is how brigette was designed, both designed to be one dimensional
Just bad hero design, she cant teamwork well with other duo to her short range and bad healing, an autoaim that has sniper range and no falloff damage that can even solo kill dps, it is like dev try to create a toxic hero that wanna ruin everyone, her teammate and her enemy day
@@thangnguyenduc7256how does she have simultaneously short range and sniper range lol?
@@SecureBirch410 that mean her healing has short range and her right click has sniper range and her kit dont have any utility for team fight aside from being annoying
Unhealthy hero for the game, should just rework to raise her skill floor. Nobody enjoys playing against Moira. Constant spammy damage orbs, fade, auto aim with zero utility is just garbage game design.
She's more of a skill check against other people, if you die to a moira its on you, pretty much any DPS should be able to 1v1 her now with the increased hitbox and her reduced healing
@@AhmoxdarYou’re right to an extent, but nobody wants to deal with somebody strafing and auto aiming everywhere while you have to hit shots period.
@@Ahmoxdar That's..... not what I'm talking about....? I'm making a point about Moira's gameplay loop. A damage orb being sent towards you with no risk involved gives her free ultimate charge and slowly ticks down your health, forcing either a healer to act or making you wait for your health to regenerate. This isn't me struggling to kill Moira, it's an annoying aspect of the gameplay loop, It's irritating. That doesn't mean Moira is inherently a problem to deal with. 9/10 times her damage orb isn't used as a zoning ability, it's just annoying spam.
@@Ahmoxdarskill check? Maybe people don't wanna be skill checked when they just wanna open up overwatch and play the cool cyborg ninja.
Have you ever tried to introduce a normie to overwatch? Its a bloody hellscape, I mean no one wants to play a game where the strat is to use turrets, bastion and moira.
Marvel rivals shows you can have easier heros like namore and scarlet witch without being so brain dead that even a mentally deficient squirrel could play 😂
When these same friends of mine play mr, they dont even bring up scarlet witch or namore because these heros aren't must picks in the lower ranks, you aren't slapped in the face with these heros every single game you play because there's an actual skill curve in the game where some heros are easier and some are harder not some play for you and some require you to invest your afterlife into it to learn it like doomfist and tracer vs Moira and torb is stretching that skill curve to its max 😂
Nothing is worse than Widow
Some thoughts on Moira:
- Decreasing the target acquisition of her beam to something similar to Sym and Zarya is a bit boring, but does go a long way in increasing expression of mechanical skill. I think an option that could also achieve that is making the beam's damage scale down the further away you are from the target's centre-mass.
- I think it would be flavourful to the character to introduce a passive based around damage-over-time and healing reduction. Last month I came up with such a passive: Parasitic Entropy (Although, Entropic Parasitism could also work). If Moira deals damage to a target for a total of 2 seconds, she inflicts them with a tiny DoT that reduces their healing received. 5 damage per second, for 5 seconds, healing received reduced by 10% (5% for Tanks) during that time. Moira heals herself for the same amount. During Coalescence, the damage and heal reduction are each doubled.
- The Mobile Hero HP nerf not hitting Genji because it would ruin him makes sense. I think the same logic should probably be extended to Moira.
your idea is what they showed in Junkensteins lab but for reducing damage received, and honestly, I reckon a toned down version will come to the game at some point, giving her some actual utility behind survivability and would be a good idea and addition
Surrender to my will!❌
Us against the world!🗣️🔥☑️
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Hp nerf and DPS passive buffed killed her for me.
I'm a Kiriko one trick who would swap to Moira on those situations that i needed to duel/survive more. But after those nerfs? Legit no reason to pick her over Kiriko.
They should revert her Hp back, that be a good start
Hated moria from day one. Can't believe they have never re worked her once
Oh no the easiest hero to play with absolutely no mechanical skill needed is not meta in the pro environment, how sad and surprising. If Moira stays as is I want her to keep getting nerfed, she has a toxic kit that doesn't belong to overwatch and every single match with her in it (in either teams that is) is a less enjoyable one. The way she looks sounds and her personality is great so I hope we'll see a rework which raises her skill floor, I dig the idea of a flanker duelist support, just make her need to hit stuff to win a duel and remove that spam ball since we are at it
okay okay I know this is crrazy but honestly the fact that the game is 5v5 encourages flanker moira behavior. To be fair, it's not like some moira players werent still doing that in 6v6, BUT it just was the incorrect play 99% of the time tbh, like the moiras who ignored their team would just lose.
But now in 5v5, the polarization of healers either being a third dps or healbot is very noticeable. Moira was realeased at a much different time in overwatch's life and she wasn't exactly regarded highly during that time, either, but she wasn't so problematic because 6v6 was just differently suited for her.
I actually was a good Moira player on ps4, I was very high ranking, peaking at over 4500 in season 12. I wasn't up there along with tons of other Moira players. who were just abusing another "low skill hero." No, it was just me, and maybe the next best Moira was 4100 or so, but most don't make it out of masters (to be fair, most players dont make it out of masters at all).
My point is, I didn't win games by leaving my team to go duel the enemy dps (even on console). I won games by coordinating my teammates and encouraging them to play and group in a way that benefits Moira. I knew how to use her kit to the maximum efficiency that I was capable of, and I was good at it. I didn't have to worry about the enemy Moira being better than me. And most non-Moira players couldn't compare with the healing and damage I was doing.
I knew how to craft the game into a situation where the enemy team wouldn't be able to overcome slowly losing the war of attrition in every fight. The enemy tank knowing that in every engagement, his team is slowly losing.
And that's what Moira was all about to me. Winning the numbers war. It made a lot of sense to me, how to eat away at the enemy team. It fits with her character.
Unfortunately with the change into 5v5, engagements became very quickly decided. It doesn't matter how good you are at Moira, you can't win against a good widowmaker, for example. And this was always the case to be fair, but now, Moira players are actually trying to go take out the enemy widow, leaving their teams in the process. It makes sense, tbh, but is a very unfortunate side effect. Widow is just one example, but you get my point. A lot of your agency as the Moira was taken away. Moira's win condition in 6v6 was winning the numbers game over the enemy supports. But in 5v5, that doesn't really matter when one pick turns each fight into a near-hopeless 4v5. She can't prevent her teammates from getting deleted, so her next best option is to just go get kills herself. Already, even in 6v6, the team who gets the first pick usually wins the fight. This is even MORE so the case in 5v5. A 4v5 is much harder to win than a 5v6.
Changing the main format of the game from 5v5 to 6v6 will alleviate much of the problem. Although I will still admit that even role locking 2-2-2 hurt Moira considerably. Triple tank with a Moira was certainly powerful lol.
Someone can't kill Moira's and it shows.
People really do not know how this hero work, they are just frustrated because they can't duel her and get pwnd
No wonder why I never touched 5v5 when 6v6 is dropped, I felt more useful and less stressful.
Why is 5v5 so hated when overwatch 2 dropped everyone was loving it it's more fast pace there are some problems but I don't get the sudden hate train
Pretty much yeah...
I think the argument is just to make moira bad as in better relatively to her current self but still bad, but not really really bad and people can't seem to, or choose not to grasp that and just act obtuse. its not more complicated than that.
You wanna talk about skill expression? then revert the hitscan and projectile hitboxes completely back, that requires more skill after all which is what's being emphasized so much here... They made them larger quite literally to "baby" you the player and make you more satisfied and to play the game more, they said it themselves when they first made them into bowling balls flying at peoples heads. so yes they baby you, just like they do moira players
You as a player are not good enough generally to "outgrow" moira being in your games at all in diamond if you're a diamond player which is what's happening now. It's a skill check and if you pass that and hit your shots fine you should see her less and less at the top level as you get better. I wouldn't bet on them ever removing her or ever getting around to any kind of meaningful rework so she should function at some capacity yes
Im gonna be controversial and say that moiras hero design is actually okay.
Shes a beam character, her secondary isnt autolock its just the animation that makes it look like that.
She has to be near allies to heal them and can only heal from a distance on a cooldown which requires a skill throw to get max value out of
She trades any cc or supportive utility for the ability to keep herself alive and continueously provide heals to the team which is a fair trade
She has no true burst healing unless shes comboing a cooldown with her normal heals or using her ult, but nothing in her kit is anything like suzu or any of baps cooldowns
Does she require insane aim to use? No. But not every character in the game should need that. Moira shows skill through positioning and cooldown management. There isnt anything that id say is overly unhealthy given that her time to kill without a damage orb helping is rather long and even then shes not going to be able to solo a tank, she does no burst damage so theres always time for your own supports to step in and help. Sure, she more difficult to dive, but thats her place in the support roster, it would be unfair to support players if there was no one they could switch to in order to deal with getting constantly dived, esspecially with dps having like, double the roaster choices compared to support
The only balance change i would make is to increase the rate of fuel used when healing to really make it feel like theres a resource that has to be managed, i rarely ever find myself out of fuel at a critical moment and im always looking to heal on moira when i play her (the heal sound on her mythic skin pleases my ears)
4:00 crazy how people are still saying it was a Dva issue when it was 100% because of Juno and the speed ring bug. Even Emongg has talked about this and how they went too far nerfing Dva and now she feels like paper mache meanwhile Juno still remains basically untouched outside of a small nerf to her ult and has been a hard meta pick since her release. It's brain rotted takes like this that get the fun tanks nerfed and keeps us in rotating Mauga/Orisa metas.
Mauga/Orisa meta way better than Dva meta
@@texmex610 Do you smoke crack? That's what people who smoke crack say
Her healing is way too low right now. I can't do much but hold the heal and once it runs out I basically become useless since the tank isn't even healed much. Considering the new DPS passive and her nerfs, this season hit her hard.
I mean it’s been the same issue for 8 years but just gotta remind ourselves it’s just a video game. Casuals wont know or care unfortunately. also gotta have easy heros for players with bad mechanics. The devs don’t care about what’s fun to play against. They release heros like Moira because they think it is get out of jail card from tracer genji but in reality swapping Moira just lowers your winrate…
I‘ve been a top 500 moira player for years now, here‘s my take: Though it breaks my heart to see how bad she is, for the overall health of the game it‘s probably better that way. She’s very fun to play and you can do some cool fade jumps but nobody wants to see a low skill ceiling character like moira in the ladders or in pro play. At times I had people throw the game or afk simply because I played that character…
I agree with ya teammate on this one, there’s no way ur top 500 as Moria unless ur playing on switch
@@eliwinn481 😂😂😂
@@eliwinn481 what does playing on Switch have to do with anything? All consoles play in the same pool and the best supports on console are Bap because of ximmers that are still an issue, and Mercy because she can afk pocket a ximming hitscan dps.
one thing i don't see people mention often in these videos is accessibility. characters like moira definitely should exist, but differently if that makes sense. many players deal with tremors or other disabilities that could prevent them from playing other characters, characters like moira make the game more accessible. HOWEVER the characters that lack the need for aim most times definitely need some drawbacks, like nerf her range on attacking. make her orbs more needed for damage or require her to get closer TO damage, there's a line between accessibility and just things being plain unfun. i don't think the devs get that
Also Ana got buff lately and made dueling with her as Moira very risky and deadly.
I was wondering why i began dying alot to ana when before i was bullying them
As it should be.
Genji didn’t get the hp nerf because he’s a burst damage hero that got hit HARD by every target having +25 or +50hp. They could buff his dash damage to 75hp to offset a health nerf to 225hp, but then that would make all 250hp heroes an instakill with nanoblade slash+dash again, which I think the devs wanted to put an end to. The only way to keep genji viable with those S9 changes, without that instakill combo being left in, was to make him a bit tankier.
You know an easy way blizzard could fix this is by removing the dps passive on self sustaining abilities and forms of healing and only leave the passive for raw healing done by supports. Then for heros that have no hitbox benefits revert there hitboxs back.
even i felt the hp nerf and i’m just a plat, moira went from not meta but viable to unplayable on an even playing field outside of very specific matchups (countering certain heroes like genji or going after a really weak backline)
without doing a full rework or adding utility the only way to fix her is to either a) make her hitbox smaller - dang that thing is chunky and makes her take a lot of dmg, which is something she could handle before the hitbox and dps passive changes - or b) just give her 250 hp again and see how that fleshes out before any further adjustments
Personally I'm really happy, that moira is neglected, and imo until she stays how she is, the Moira problem won't be her place in the meta (until she stays as far away from it as possible), but her kit, as it is, is just the worst thing that has left the ow dev team's hands. I hate Moira with a passion, and until she get's a full on rework, (nut just an extra pig pen, but at least half of her kit completely changed), I would like to see her in the dumpster!
Merry Xmas Kajor! A hero roasting from you is a nice present to have lol.
What nerf did she get? I can only recall buffs since season 9 for Moira
flat nerf from 250hp to 225hp, dps passive as a proxy nerf, ages ago, armour gets flat 30% reduction from beams INCLUDING Moira's for some reason so she does even less damage to armour vs health. Hitbox increases, pretty much the nerfs were mostly proxy
@ none of that is even specific to Moira. I mean somebody could make the argument for the HP bit… but that hand was used against mobile heroes in general. Let’s keep this specifically about Moira.
Since Season 9 Moira has:
-Gone from 200hp to 250hp to 225hp.
-Grasp went from 50dps to 65, down to 60, then BACK to 65dps
-Grasp self heal increased from 24 to 30
-Coalescence self heal went from 50 to 55 and it’s dps went from 70 to 85.
@@swagtrapswagMoira beam is DoT and completely ignores armour like in OW1, it’s only gotten better for her
@@nowun6043 it doesn't sadly, look it up, nerf under beams and armour
@@CrackedMidsoles i mean her health went to 225 while everyone's damage went up making her easier to kill then pre season 9 esp with the dps passive
I get so confused why hero’s that have the lowest pick and win rate get nerfs but they prioritize hit scan heros. Symmetra and Moira are the 2 main hero’s I can think of that have constantly gotten nerfs for no reason.
because they require less aim. majority of the playerbase dont want heroes like torb, mercy, moira, etc to be as strong as ashe or tracer (except for tanks)
@@Megggazap People incorrectly focus on surface level things like aim requirements. Mercy is a good example of a hero that has low aim requirements, but does that mean Mercy's skill floor is low? Of course not. To reach any respectable elo, you must have excellent awareness, gamesense, target priority, etc. Just like any other hero. Moira is not an "instant win" pick like some might suggest. She never really was. Even when Moira was best back in GOATS meta days, people weren't crushing leaderboards for playing her.
If you want to play a game where the player with better aim always wins, don't play overwatch. It was never intended to be that game, but rather a game where players who have great gamesense, awareness, ability usage, teamwork, can overcome "all aim, no brain" players on a level field.
Symm needs more nerfs imo. An annoyance to play against just like Mei
@@mrpacifism209 i dont complain about those heroes. I’m just saying a lot of people do. (i play mercy, sombra, mei, all the annoying badly designed characters)
Issue is neither of those heros have any other form of skill, ow has way to many heros who just are leagues easier than the other heros.
Marvel rivals is exposing tf outta the people who always complained that their skilless hero is just hated, because my friends always complained about sym, Moira, sombra, bastion torb and all the normal offenders, and keep in mind most these guys were new when I introduced them to overwatch, just the new player experience in overwatch is abysmal because there's so many cheesy heros, but these same people play marvel rivals and they're playing the marvel rival variants of the ow heros they hated because they just don't find them to be all that cheesy, like my buddy hates torb with a passion, yet he's a namore main in rivals, but it's because namore requires skill, unlike torb, if you want the max value from namore, you gotta land some headshots which power up his turrets vs the target he landed the headshot on, meanwhile torb places hus and forgets its exists as it solos entire lobbies in silver, as he runs off to solo a tank.
Ow just has no concept of what a skill curve is in balancing lol
People don't want all high skill heros, they just want a relatively balanced skill curve, and the skill curve in ow is so off its actually an impressive feat in of itself, but I guess Jeff Kaplan did say he wanted a complex game that he could make easier over time... and he certainly achieved that goal 😂
They should reduce her base damage and life steal but make her deal double damage and double life steal when aiming at an enemy's centre mass. This adds a significant skill component.
It would also be cool if she could lock on to a maximum of two enemies at once, again at the expense of considerably reducing her base damage and life steal. This would make her worse in 1v1s where she is notoriously frustrating to play against yet more potent against 2 or more enemies, kinda like a pseudo Winston. She could only deal critical damage to one enemy at a time by aiming at their centre mass though, so target priority is something the Moira has to consider.
She’s too easy, too impactful, too awful to play against - absolutely sucks to play against her
Hero performance (at a high enough level) should be the main factor when it comes to balance. I feel like this should go without saying, yet Blizzard repeatedly nerfs heroes who aren't popular and buffs those who are regardless.
To those saying Moira is easy therefore should be worse, what does that even mean ? If a hero is harder to win with, in what world are they easier ? Not only that, but at high ranks the difference in mechanics between players in minimal, everyone hits their shots well enough and has similar accuracies, the only thing left to balance are the numbers. Balancing heroes around lower ranks makes no sense, you're just trying to balance around people inability to properly play, which is impossible. People don't actually care about balance, they just want to play popular/op heroes and want anything else to be completely unplayable. Balancing shouldn't be about making X thing meta or not, but allowing people to have more options based on preference rather than only specific heroes being strong, and creating a more even playing field.
Merry Christmas All!🎄
moira is like yuumi in lol: a character with such low skill expression you just can't have them with average stats or you freak out everyone that casually play the game. and i wouldn't be surprised if moira is deliberately maintained in an underpowered state because of that
the problem is that the gap between her skill ceiling and skill floor are to close to eachother
I’ve always said this, Moira is the worst support in the game, she’s a stat pad machine
Agreed. I hate clicked on this thinking it was a rant whining that Moira is broken and wanting her nerfed. Nice to see some recognition that she's getting dumped on. I think the common disdain for her is maybe partly why she's getting ignored, but seeing how Orisa is also largely looked down on, yet keeps getting re-buffed so to bad performance, I think it is just a matter of time.
On a side note, why is her life-steal affected by the DPS passive? That isn't traditional healing, like I didn't think Mauga/Reaper got hit did they? Maybe I'm wrong.
A nuisance to have on your team and somewhat annoying as an enemy when you play dive on dps... But I really just wish she got a rework so she can be more useful
Hottake:Moira shouldn't be a High rank Meta because she has no specialty comapring with Kiriko:high dueling potential and a useful team buffing ult. Bap:better vertical mobility and long fight sustain. Ana:CC and debuffing with better healing output. Zen:debuffing and lethality.
Why would moira not receive the hp nerf but Bap would when he has no mobility ability…
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with Moria getting the hp nerf because she has great mobility with fade and two self sustain mechanics in her kit. The issue with her is purely her low skill floor and ceiling. The changes in the creator experimental mode allowing her to headshot should be implemented since it rewards good aim and allows her to duel better given the moira player is good at tracking. If they lower her base damage per second to 60 dps and decrease the attach rate they can give her a 1.5 headshot damage multiplier and moira will have more skill expression and will have a much higher skill ceiling
its good Moira is bad, for the health of the game. nobody wants to watch moira in pro play. literally not a single person wants to see that. there are so many other supports with so much skill expression why would anyone choose to play moira? I think the problem you mentioned about auto aim heroes shouldn't be meta but brought up winston and rein, you're forgetting what makes Moira unhealthy, its her ability to self sustain while being a low ceiling character. If Moira is meta, it will be very unfun for most players other than Moira players. The devs can't allow that to happen. Genji, a high mobility character you mentioned in the video, doesn't fall under this category. he's a well designed dps and nobody really hates playing against a genji. Genji is healthy for the game so the devs are perfectly fine with him being strong. The best Winston players have so much more to think about than Moira players because they can't just fade away when they're slept or anti by an ana or booped by a brig. Everything about Moira is problematic. Her fade, her auto aim, her self sustain.
Genji's ability to deflect anything is broken. He depends on that to survive almost always. He has an escape dash, double jump, and can wall climb. Moira only has a fade.
@@TheMandellaEffectbruhGenji also doesn’t have a cleanse or invisibility on his CDs and, here’s the real kicker; has to work 100x harder and put himself in MUCH riskier positions to get value. Moira does not have to take ANY risks to get consistent value and can use her fade purely reactively and not get punished for taking aggressive positions
@@TheMandellaEffectbruhcomparing apples to oranges is crazy. Moira is a healer that does a lot of AOE heals and does consistent beam damage that heals her. genji is a mobile dive burst hero whose damage isn't scaled for power creep and health changes, with a brawl based ultimate that requires a nimble flanker to be close to your target in order to get value, which most of the time leads to death. Moira gets all her value at a safe distance with good sustain. She also requires like no skill unlike genji 😂
@avez I'm not trying to convince you. The fact of the matter is she has a 3% pick rate in grandmaster. Just because your average Genji fan boy thinks otherwise
@@TheMandellaEffectbruh Thats the dumbest take i ever seen holy shit. Deflect is not broken little bro, not only its bypassed by beams but also its value decreases the more uptime it has. Genji can only escape if he gets a kill.
overbuff stats are so wrong even astrology could give us better informations
“Moiwa”
Do you think if they brought back the dmg reduction orb from the beta that would be good? Maybe nerfed a bit tho
keep that toddler champ bad. she doesnt need to be removed but theres not reason a hero should be that easy
Not every hero has to have an insane mechanic behind, and she’s extremely easy to play against, other than kiriko who can literally 1v1 every dps in the game and get away at anytime from a bad position without being punished for it.
idk but im mad scarlet witch has so much in common w her in rivals, because of that she will never get proper balance, unless she gets reworked of course
I 1 trick moria on support. I'll play her now and pop off
I just saw this vid, and now I wanna play moira and pop off as well!
I just dropped 22 kills no deaths with moira video on my page. Had the most heals too
Moira was over tuned for a really long time.
moira could be deleted from the game and I would give 2 shiets or a fuk about it. Awful character design.
Moira is fun hero, do something when you want to chill in the game and dont rely on your teammates.
Haters of her are "walking jokes", taking the game too seriously, playing the game for meta and a fake feeling to be good in something, meaning they are useless in real life.
Who cares about top 10% of players? Who cares about pro scene? They are jus destroying experience for bottom 90% of playerbase.
Funny for you to said that when overwatch is heavy teamwork game so even you try to solo like that, you cant do anything when your team lose the fight and you hiding like headless chicken try to catch someone with like 50 hp remain
I swear Moira does way to much damage to genji and tracer, she makes those heroes unplayable unless you get close enough to do more damage than her just so she can fade away and use a healing ball just for the process to happen again.
Lol, then you don't play moira. Genji and tracer can delete moira completely in an instantly. Moira takes at least 2 full seconds to kill them with a full orb and perfect tracking. In that time a good tracer will 1 clip you and a good genji can do a right click, dash, melee combo and delete you. Moira is 100% reliant on other people missing shots to kill anyone in a 1v1.
@dash4800 Moira takes about 3 seconds to kill tracer and 4 seconds to kill genji and that's if they don't throw a damage orb and she gains hp when she does damage. And that's what I mean you have to be extremely close to actually do damage to her and if you don't hit your shots you're practically dead
@@dash4800Moira beats almost everyone in a 1 v 1 it’s not even funny. The only one she doesn’t stand a chance against is Roadhog
@@L0yalEcho only against really low tier players. Against anyone decent they will melt moira 100% of the time. Her orb heals 65 per second and her grasp does 65 dmg per second. Tracer does 220 dmg per second. So even with an orb on her traver will do 440 dmg in 2 seconds to a moira with 225 hp+120 healing in 2 seconds who can only do 130 dmg over those same 2 seconds. And if you think these numbers don't reflect reality you haven't played in top ranks. Tracers, sombras, genjis, ventures, reapers, will all feast on you at those ranks because they aren't missing shots that much. Watch arx videos and see how often he ever takes 1v1s with high burst dps.
@@dash4800 Yes anyone decent can 1 v 1 her but she’s like impossible to kill. She does 30 damage with her biotic grasp compared to her fast movement. She can 1 v 1 people and get away with it almost all the time. No tracer is going to beat her when she can just rendezvous with her team. She’s not easy to kill is my point
Whats better solution? Hoping balance team gets fired in the future
The background gameplay confused me so bad 😂
I’ll say it right now before I get into the video, Moira being bad at high ranks is a good thing
Tired of getting your shit pushed in, champ?
“do we need to buff moira?”is an insane question to ask. this is why the game is shit.
One of the most satisfying feelings once you reach GM is that you never have to play against or with low skill heroes like Moira/Mercy.
But here we are complaining about Moira being bad. Crazy.
She just needs a new ability or something in her tool kit, moria's fun and easy so if they want to raise the skill level they can do it that way
Do you realize developers review internal stat data instead of GMs whining about on YT? In high levels, people play as 5, most of them can see the fricking zeroes and ones like Matrix, so their effectiveness against Moira is not comparable to the vast majority of players. Most players are around gold-plat, and they play solo or play as 2-3 stack. They experience a completely different game than GMs. It's an extremely difficult task to balance a hero for both general audience and pro play. They'll never be able to get it right. No one ever will in any game similar to this.
I cannot believe I’ve watched a full video promoting a reversal of the Moira nerfs.
Low skill heroes should not be viable above Diamond. Leaver her on the metal ranks.
Clearly a gold/plat player here but I really enjoy playing unranked with her but wouldn't dare in ranked
Moira is the epitome of everything wrong with OWs design. Zero skill design. There is no aim. No cooldown management. No ult management. Its incredibly hard to make positioning mistakes, shes literally babys first video game material. Rework her so she actually has to interact with the game.
To be clear, she's not the only one, supports in general are terribly designed, but Moira lacks any sort of skill/reward ratio.
“Just play Kiriko”
EXACTLY! Just play Kiriko, if you like Moira’s playstyle but want to improve at the game just play Kiriko. Leave Moira in the dirt because no one likes this hero and she has an insanely low skill floor, therefore should be a bad hero.
Season 9 has done irreparable dmg to the game
never endorse moira's :)
Moira just has too many loud haters. Devs are never gonna do her justice. Moira is one of the most fun heroes in the game, i aways see new players that are not fps nerds pick her as their favorite first hero.
Wonderful christmas morning
The Genji mains are crying rivers over her
Great video, from a former diamond moira
The HP nerf was so unwarranted since they were already adding another broken flex healer creating more competition for Moira to fill that spot, and also because Moira has to play close to her team to sustain them, it’s not like Juno who can play so far away and still keep her team up along with having insane mobility.
People play her mainly as a DPS. I hate it
Moira is the worst support. Give kiriko another skin
BRING BACK OW1 MOIRA THAT OVERHEAL 65 /SEC UP TO 4 SEC TO FIX IT
Meanwhile Genji with 27 dmg with bigger hps. He used to have 28 with 200 hps 🤡
I disagree with a lot of things you said, but sadly im to lazy to type since not a single soul would care. Good video
personally as a support main i just find her really lame. i've played ever other support for a handful of hours but Moira is just such a sauce less character from a design standpoint. Not fun to play, not fun to fight.
u should do mercy
Just delete this garbage from the game already
Gold elims moira vs tik tok duel moira :0
maybe blizzard wants moira to only be good in low to mid ranks, maybe they don't want to give the easiest mechanics more value in high level play? I mean do we really want a auto beam hero be that good?
And here I thought she was OP
This video made me sad 😅help Moira is all
Moira needs buffs or at least have her nerfs reverted especially her health nerf. Her whole playstyle is having that sustained dmg and healing which allowed her team to keep applying pressure and live due to her high healing but now she cant heal her team well because of the dps passive and she cant help duel dps ir other supports well becuse she can self heal well and cant tank as many shots. Ive been seeing alot of comments about how its good that moira is really bad and she needs to be nerfed more but its always made with bias behind the comment just saying that because they dont like moira. In realness she doesnt need to be so op that she is infecting pro play but she still need to be viable in some form of niche. The hp nerf shouldnt have happend because although she can get out of bad situations with fade the enemy team can just force it out and continue to chase you but then she doesnt have a suzu to tank more or extra mobility to climb walls like kiri once she uses that fade she cant heal herself well because of the dps passive and her dmg is very low so if the enemy hits there shots you are dead its a problem that needs to be fixed regardless if moira is a easy to pick up hero she still need to be viable regardless what people may think if you cant handle a moira now in the awful state she is in it is straight up a skill issue ngl
6:32 coping
She honestly needs a full rework atp
She is situational already.
The situation you play Moira in is if you are dogshit at the game and have almost no skill.
That is her niche and it’s fine if she stays there in my mind.
If they want to make her more competitively viable she needs a rework to introduce higher skill ceiling mechanics to extract value. Just buffing her numbers on her current kit sounds horrible. If they don’t want to rework her, keep her we the kiddie ride for the window licker players.
Raise the skill ceiling on this character because she’s so fun. I love the fact that you have to be entrusted to make the right decision at all times with Moira or lose
Everything about her is annoying. So is a tank like Hazard who can block all of your ultimates with his hand!
Well, the "target aquisition" is largely a part of the problem. Reward people who actually care to aim, with increase damage on precision, maybe a headshot (crit) multiplier.
with healing, reduce the pissing heal, but increase it when it lingers, so you teach moira players to joggle between the piss and damage
if 225 hps is here to stay, buff the mobility with increase jump on fade, so you can reach high grounds more easily
If you can hit your shots moira is worthless. If you can't she's unbeatable. It's so funny when people complain about moira
As a Moira main who managed to climb to GM, everything you've said was true and I 100% agree with it. Moira was always meant to be the simple, easy to play hero for beginners. And she has honestly suffered because of this. She will never be meta due to lack of game-changing abilities like suzu or immortality, but she wont really ever be bad cuz of the easy and consistent dmg, heals and elims. She is just in the middle, an average hero who most likely will never get a change which she actually needs due to her "averageness". Id like to see her get her necrotic orb back, just to see how she could change the meta. But who am I kidding? This is blizzard we are talking about. Great video btw!
I think ur the problem for playing as her
@@eliwinn481 I think your the problem for having such a stupid opinion 😆
She has one of the lowest skill floors and ceilings in the game, a character like that shouldn’t be good
@zuckergolf4442 Why not? Why do you think a character HAS to have a complex kit with a high skill ceiling to be good? Is it because you think it shouldn't be that free? The whole point of Moira was to have a support with a simple kit, who could get good numbers. Why do you think a character like that shouldn't be good? 🤔
@@eliwinn481 I think you're the problem for having such a terrible opinion. 😆
Sombra way more annoying, I’ll never forgive them for creating that cancer of a character
This is a good thing in my opinion; I personally don't enjoy having a Moira in my team, I don't like playing against her, her gameplay is boring to watch on all levels, she used to allow bad players to stomp users who are average or play casually (especially below average, see the tiktok Moira meme), and her nerfed status makes enemy supports more fun to fight in higher ranks. These things all encourage picking a more skillful support, at the very least one where aim is a requirement in this FPS... which yes, it doesn't have to be there as shown with Winston and others, but it's surely more welcomed than dying to auto-lock or random silent orb from 9 planets away during a fall back.
I'm ready for Moira to be deleted from the game tbh so this is great. Change Moira's drain grasp into a lvl 1 sym beam, then they can give her some shit back.
takes no skill
I can carry teams with moira
Man, you’re literally talking about a “duelist” who doesn’t have to aim. Get her out of the game. The idea is absurd on its face. She has to suck at GM on PC, because if she didn’t, imagine how broken she’d be at gold on console. The whole premise is bad.
Uh oh...
I hope they put in some effort and buff her by actually making her harder to play but more rewarding through new utility somehow.
no
Overbuff is very inaccurate and can deviate from dev statements quite drastically. Not to mention the selection bias.
Remember back when reaper got buffed and none of the streamers even cared, then he got nerfed again? When he apparently decemated low to mid ranks? Nobody notices these things and it's up to blizzard to be transparent about it. But ultimately it's clear by the massive hate against Moira players are coming from lower ranked players and their opinion is completely valid.
Well designed characters should be fair at all skill levels. And demanding and fun heroes shouldn't be gatekept by some shitty free value hero design just because you're not good at it yet
This goes both ways. Kiriko is so good in high ranks means she probably struggles in low ranks balancing the winrate out. maybe because she isn't being played "correctly" and loses out on a lot of value? This goes on intuitive game design.
However there is very good reason to be optimistic. Blizzard has shown through hazard that they care about balancing the winrate across ranks, not just on average. Which means we can possibly see improvements in skill expression in Moira while also being more demanding for low rank players! Can't wait
Well designed characters that are fair at all skill levels means sojourn shouldn't exist at all yet she does, shes OP but blizz said aight we dont really care, heres a slap on the wrist nerf oh and shes still broken in 6v6
@@swagtrapswag That's because the 6v6 was created before the sojourn nerfs. They probably had 6v6 ready at the start of season 14.
@@tyrenace6597 yeah I know, that's why I said it, cause she's op in it since it's start of season buff
She should always be dogshit she shouldnt have little to no depth and be good if she had to actually use mechanics then her being good would be ok
I definitely agree. For her to become better at peak value, would necessitate a rework to her kit, damage, and probably a passive so she isn't too strong in lower ranks (aka requiring more skill to get peak value) but has more utilities in her kit for high ranks. Also, is your profile pick from the Wavves "V" album, or is it just from the Tarot Card?
Moira has aimbot, self healing, intangible mobility on low cooldown, zero risk, an 8 second ult that heals and damages while she's completely safe behind her tank
Genji is high skill, high risk, high mobility only if the genji can execute with their mechanics to get dash resets, season 9 made this already awful character worse, has an ult that requires game sense and mechanics that does no damage and gets out healed by basic healing that lasts 6 seconds
"The devs seem to not no what they're doing"
You don't say
Yall love complaining about everything
you all know nothing