Revisiting the Cheap eBay Collet Chuck | It's Pretty Bad
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ม.ค. 2022
- The cheap eBay collet chuck I bought about a year ago and installed on my lathe is starting to get pretty gritty. Let's take it apart and see if we can make it better.
Tools used in this video:
*This site contains affiliate links for which I may be compensated
5C Collet Chuck (eBay*): ebay.to/3lMVbbr
5C Collets Set - Imperial (Amazon*): amzn.to/3mOcmcQ
5C Collet Set - Metric (Amazon*): amzn.to/3rsBz00
Wera Kraftform Screwdriver Set (Amazon*): amzn.to/2UzK6CL
Milwaukee Brushless 3/8" Impact (Amazon*): amzn.to/3uxwHJ4
3/8" Allen Driver Impact Socket Set (Amazon*): amzn.to/3oylrei
Nicholson Swiss Made Needle File Set (Amazon*): amzn.to/3qGOw6q
Raw Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License
creativecommons.org/licenses/b...
James, one way to think about any inexpensive offshore piece of equipment is to treat it like a kit. Yes, the kit comes pre-assembled so you know how it is supposed to look when it is done. It is still always necessary to disassemble the kit, finish any incomplete work and re-assemble it the way you want. Essentially what you ended up doing in this video. Thanks for posting.
That assumes any of the parts are worth further work - in this case, that is doubtful. Value Engineering at it's finest - they have engineered all the value out of it!
Yes, I think this is true if the underlying material is suitable, and if there's enough of it to machine, scrape, grind, etc. and still have something useful. Cast iron angle plates and surface gages are prime examples of this.
@Doug's _"...kit ... disassemble ... work on ... reassemble..."_
Exactly right. I worked as a bowling mechanic for 45 yrs, and took the seals off every bearing in the shop, washed with degreaser, rinsed, dried, and reassembled them. Bearings good for a year from the factory lasted 5 or 6 years in my center.
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Well, if I get one of these, I'll be taking it apart and cleaning the heck out of it as soon as I get it haha
Good video but from the looks of it (and maybe its deceiving in the video), you are tightening the chuck way too tight and that's probably why you are get the tooth deformation on the pinions. A 5c collet chuck doesn't need to be tightened like a scroll chuck. In years of using collet chucks I've never had a collet come loose or a part slip with more than what I can torque with one hand on the T-wrench with the shaft between my middle and ring finger. On a collet chuck, you dont have centrifugal force trying to loosen the chuck and the grip on the part like you do with a scroll chuck.
On average, a typical pneumatic and/or hydraulic 5c collet closer on a high end CNC's with automatic bar feeders usually have a closing pull force of between 1700 and 1900lbs. Now when you consider the thread size of the OD thread on a 5c collet, 40lb-ft of torque on the retaining nut (ring gear in the case of a collet chuck like you have) with average dry thread friction values is 1940lbs of pull force on the collet. Add in the roughly 4:1 gear ratio of that gear set and you only need 10lb-ft of torque on the t-handle at the absolute most.
Well, yes, and no. On my chuck, at least, the collet hangs in the chuck no doubt because of the rough pinions and drive gear. It takes a lot of force just to get the collet to close, at all. If the drive train were much smoother, then it would not require so much force, as you say.
It’s hard to see how much pressure is being used just turning the chuck key, but those pinions are too soft in any case.
@@clayz1 any reason you couldn’t case harden them?
@@en2oh I can see few. Unknown Chinese steel which probably won't case-harden, deformation and very uneven shape. Also, casehardening don't increase tensile strength. If teeth are already bending, they will snap of or still bend if the steel somehow absorbs enough carbon to become hard.
@@en2ohThat was my first thought also until I heard him say the pinions are cast iron, which cannot be case hardened.
As hobbyists, it makes sense for us to buy the cheapest thing we can. Once we figure out it works for us, we can buy better quality tools. Yes it can cost more money in the long run but I'd say about half the time the cheap tools work just fine for they hobby work I do.
No kidding. We wouldn't even have these hobbies if we couldn't get this kind of cheap stuff.
@@ElectronicDrug Are you cheapskate? can't you just buy Kern machne?
@@Kawka1122 ... I finally managed to justify getting one some months ago and people are out here, assuming it's the basics
All it means that you love buying Chinese crap. The Chinese are masters at making rubbish and they don’t even have to try very hard , it just comes natural.
@@janvandemaas4148 they are masters at selling it. They make whatever quality you want to pay for.
I’m sure you don’t hear it enough but Thank you for what you do. You have given me the confidence and knowledge to step my foot into machining. I am Getting ready to purchase a lathe and eventually a mill. You are a wonderful teacher. Just finished watching the Electronic leadscrew series and the way you break things down makes this hobby a whole lot less intimidating.
I was just mounting my cheap 5C ebay chuck the day you made this video. Excellent timing! I decided to take mine apart also. For what its worth, my cheap chuck was a 25 dollars more than yours, but came with three pinion gears that seemed be harder than yours as was the crown gear. The crown did not have a thrust bearing and it was uniformly faced. All in all no grinding dust inside. I did polish the pinions up a bit and fettled all the gear teeth for good measure. Getting about 2/10s runout with a 3/8 pin in the collet. Thank you!
Great word: fettled.
LOL, "Do you feel that?" Yes James, I feel it buddy, I feel it... 😉😂
Seems like a nice project to cut new pinions and face gear once it wears out. It would be cool to see that.
Nice work in getting it to a more usable state. The one i have needs the same treatment. Something in the inner threads binds on collets. Great stuff James.
I have learned a lot from you and Quinn. Thanks for the content. The spindle on my CD-210V 8x16 lathe has a MT5 Morris taper. Do you think a MTB5 collet chuck with a draw bar would be a reasonable alternative to a face mounted collet chuck?
Great cue to start a new project: Make some pinion gears and a ring gear.... I guess if you buy these its similar to buying one of them mini lathes as a hobby. The hobby in that case is improving the mini lathe :-). If I ever get the room to get one of those though, i'd probably do it :-)
And bore out the pinion 'holes' and line them with a hard steel to prevent wear.
And and and and... 😁
Seems like it would be a lot easier to just disassemble it and heat treat all the parts.
@@donbeckham I was also thinking that would be a great option for a fix maybe.
@@donbeckham If the ring gear was machined reasonably straight, and the pinions weren't already deformed, and the material is something that would harden sufficiently, you're probably right.
But I think at this point, the ship has sailed.
@@donbeckham That steel probably isn't able to be heat-treated.
Hi James, I bought one from BANGGOOD in China about three years ago and I'm reasonably certain it was about $120 US. It came without a back plate for my Myford ML 7 so I made my own. It felt a bit rough so I opened it and found, like you, a bunch of rough edges everywhere. Unlike yours mine was that closely machined I had trouble getting the scroll out. Mine doesn't have a needle bearing. The gears are "hard" and I had to use a stone and diamond files to clear the edges. Files sorted the main housing's surfaces. I reassembled it and it felt much better.
I made the register between the backplate and chuck about 0.020" smaller so there's a small amount of possible movement between the two. I chucked a piece of 1/2" drill rod in a collet, snuged up the three mounting bolts and then using a soft hammer moved the chuck until I measured less than 0.0005" runout on the test bar both at the face and about three inches out. I then tightened the bolts and repeated the test with the same result. As good as I will ever need.
I've not used it alot but so far I've not detected any changes in the "feel" of the chuck . I guess it all depends which "bin" they came out of.
Thanks for the video. Regards from Canada's banana belt.
👍🇨🇦☃️
Sounds like you got a good one.
Thanks James for the video and tare down of the chuck. I purchased a 80 mm 4 jaw from LMS. It only lasted 4 months before I started having problems. I disassembled the chuck and found the adjustment screws for each jaw had the threads broken off. Was really disappointed in it. Like you said the material is too soft. I have not been able to find replacement screws.
As far as stopping wear on soft parts is concerned the best solution I have found(so far) is moly-grease.....
A master degree, one video at a time
Nice work and thanks for the well filmed story.
Buying a Chinese mini lathe taking the chuck apart for cleaning was needed. The Chinese mini mill came with totally dry axial bearings for the X travel, a destroyed and not functioning set screw was drilled out using left hand drill bits.
Adjustable parallells... full of dirt...
Making a new ring and pinion gears sounds like a great project.
I’ve also got a Chinese 5C collet Chuck but mine has ground ring and pinions, it came used with my lathe, seems similar to yours but mine is a set through style.
Looked at Stephan’s video and mine is more similar to his with forged hardened gears and the whole body is hardened.
I didn't expect the gears to be cut that badly! Surprising it didn't already strip a tooth
The gears are cast not cut, that’s what makes them so bad.
just picked up an old montgomery wards 700a lathe and thinking about extra tooling -- thinking about collets and holders that might work for it this was a good video to help me thanks
I half way thought when you showed the pinions and gear that you would machine new ones for the heck of it. Great video. Thanks
Well now i do not feel so had i'd forgotten to go hunt one these things down. Last big project i worked on in my hobby-basement it would have been a great accessory to have had & reduced the amount of time i spent turning the multiple identical pieces in the 3-Jaw.
Hey James, a big thank you for this one, and for your electronic lead screw project. I found a new use for the ELS as I was working on mounting one of these 5C chucks. I was power feeding to face my new spindle adapter and didn't notice that I was about to hit the end of travel on the cross slide. When it hit the end, the stepper stalled and the stepper controller errored out well before anything got stressed. No stripped gears and easy recovery.
As far as the 5C chuck goes, I'd say mine came in ever rougher than yours. Having watched this, I tore mine down for cleaning before doing anything else. There's no thrust bearing in mine, just ground flats engaging. I found the same casting roughness in the pinions and the main nut. Two hours of cleaning, deburring and bandaging (amazing how sharp a square ground edge can be) and it was back together and smoother. I faced the adapter and that showed dead nuts on for runout of the face and edge. Drilled and tapped mounting bolts, no drama. Mounted the chuck and had 0.007" runout on the nose. Arggghh. Fiddled with it for a couple of hours till I figured out that the rear face of the chuck just wasn't square to the bore, concentric but cocked a tiny fraction of a degree. A 0.003" shim in just the right spot and the runout is now down to 0.0005", consistent along the length of the chuck and a chucked piece of stock.
Anyway, thanks again for the work you do on the channel. I find your videos and projects like the ELS immensely useful.
Based on your last video, I was finally ready to pull the trigger for the $150 (next check). The first time procrastinating paid off... I guess I will keep looking for a used quality one. Thanks- your timing is great! I would bet if someone with a hobby shop made quality replacement gears, they would sell.
Thanks for the follow-up video. I'll still probably buy a cheap import but there are some that have 3 pinion gears so it may be one of them. I'll definitely open it up for a cleaning and deburring. It sounds like a great place for a moly based grease. I intend to get hex collets because several things I make for myself and friends require hex stock. It shouldn't take much pressure to hold hex materials securely.
So sorry about your experience with this chuck. I bought a ER40 collet chuck and have had great experience with it so far. It was about the same price and included a set-tru plate in the CAM-4 setup. I really think the universe owes you a great, classic lathe. I was fortunate enough to luck into a DeValliere H140E lathe. There’s no substitute for mass.
Just learned a neat trick in a Fireball Tools Video today: when putting a threaded piece in your lathe, wrap wire around it in the grooves of the thread, and you won’t mar it.
I saw that earlier myself.
If you have lots of the same parts making a split collar is beneficial.
There appears to be atleast two manufacturers of these super cheap collet chucks (and a million resellers of course). Just a week ago I bought a $200(Canadian) 5c chuck and it appears to be identical to the one Stefan got. Obvious differences being the outside was machined to make the parting line invisible unlike yours where it has been chamfered. Additionally, like Stefan's mine has no thrust bearing on the inside and a single dowel pin for aligning the two halves instead of roll pins. Like Stefan's everything on the one I bought has been hardened to nearly 60HRc and well ground on the running surfaces which will give it a good lifespan if everything is kept well lubricated. Seems like the chuck shown in this video has much softer parts and the bearing is there just to compensate for this.
To anyone reading this looking to buy a cheap 5c chuck watch Stefans video and try to find one identical to his as it will last far longer. Obviously it is still a cheap tool, I had to spend about two hours with diamond files and stones deburring everything then cleaning it again, but after that process it runs super smooth and will last. Cheap tools are great as long as they cut costs in the right places...
appreciate the honest content.
Good job 👍. I just bought a precision mathew er 40 collet chuck on ebay and I am very happy with the quality for the money
Love coming back to watch these chuck videos after buying a Bison set-tru 5c collet chuck🤣
Thanks for doing this James: it's always helpful to see what's "under the hood" before we start to take something apart ourselves. I chose to go he ER collet route for flexibility and cost, and now I'm glad.
I' guessing that they used grease on the thrust bearing since it wouldn't see the light of day for a while ("use oil when you can access it regularly, use grease when you can't"). Even with the oiler, not much lubricant will find its way in between the thrust washers and get to the needles.
I used to use white Lithium grease based on the recommendation from LMS, but after seeing how thick it gets over time (and learning first hand how difficult it is to get thick/hard Lithium grease off of the mating surfaces in my apron) I've switched to Super Lube™ for my lathe, mill, rotary table, etc. Sherline recommends this (oil or grease depending on the application) for all of their equipment. I use Starrett instrument oil for any precision applications.
Thanks again, Charlie.
The question becomes more about the difficulty involved in making new gears. It's not the easiest thing to do but with an end mill, a hobbing cutter, and a dividing head it's definitely possible...
...but why bother?! If the gear and pinions are lousy, what makes you think that the REST of the parts of the chuck are worth a dam?
I'd also try to mill out the pinion axles and slots and add bronze bushings to the axle slot - after the remade pinions and 5c thread retainer gear get heat treated. Quite the effort, but they really are the only critical parts in this chuck; the rest is totally usable as is.
Alternatively, one could buy quality replacement parts from a manufacturer that makes high quality versions of these, and either machine those parts or machine the chuck body ro accommodate those parts.
Sure, one could buy a proper built chuck from a reputable manufacturer, but not everyone (especially not weekend warrior hobbyist types) is eager nor rich enough to spend big bucks on stuff like this unless it was absolutely needed for whatever outfit they are running, or intend to use it to make production parts, and thusly, make money with.
There are a couple of things you can do to increase engagement of the gears. It looks like the pinions back out when the locating pin is engaged. Put a new pin on the other side of the pinion that locates the pinion in a little more... You could space the ring gear out a little also.
great video Clough42. I crushed that thumbs up on your video. Always keep up the solid work.
I bought the exact same chuck after watching the first video. I did tear mine apart when I got it and polished the gears with a soft 3m deburring wheel followed with a red scotchbrite wheel. I also made the back plate about .01” smaller than the chuck body ID so I could tap it around and
eliminate runout. With a ground pin I got it to .0003 runout…lol. I haven’t used it as much as you have but so far mine is working fine, and I would buy it again for the money and convenience of have a collet chuck.
Same here. He just got a bad apple. Many others are great.
After I saw your video last year I purchased the same one that same day and I have the same trouble. It runs true but like yours it really thought when I use the collets
Mine felt a grabby similar to what you described. It got better after a teardown and cleaning but still not $500 chuck. As you said you get what you pay for.
Great videos, I'm learning a lot!
When saying that the manufacturing process is "optimized", ask yourself "optimized for what?" High accuracy, 'value' quality for moderate cost, high quality, durability, saved $ on the design process, lowest possible manufacturing cost...
James, I was just doing a little bit of reading about hardening cast iron and I found that you can either induction or flame harden cast iron to increase the surface hardness. Apparently lathes still use that method for their castings. Might be worth looking into it to get more service life from that gear and the pinions. Gilles
...if the gear and pinions are already messed up, what's the point of trying to heat treat them?!
Sometimes, you're a lot better off if you cut your losses, and save your money to buy something better!
An inexpensive chuck like this is better than nothing- but that's about ALL!
@@daleburrell6273 what does a hobby machinist have to loose by trying to heat treat it? A chance it comes out better and you learned something, or a chance it comes out worse and you learned something. Also a chance it didn’t make any difference, and you had an excuse to play with fire and steel,
@@firstmkb ...POSSIBLY.
@@daleburrell6273 true, as it is neither death nor taxes!
Re-make all the gears! great project and learning experience
I have the same one and i was able to get it apart and clean it, and stone it, lost of dust and burs where holes were drilled. i havent used it much since ive had it so its still pretty good so far
It does seem amazing how these are so well made in some areas and not others, one would think that little bit extra wouldnt change the price that much, such a shame
I bough one of these too. Had to grind the collet taper to turn true and even after that the run out isn't great. While I was grinding it I took it appart and cleaned it like you did. But I"m also waiting for it to die and justify a better one !
Thanks for the review and teardown. 🤠👍⚒️🔥
James, the collet chuck that Stefan took apart is from a different manufacturer.
I purchased the same version the Stefan has, and it is good.
You can see the difference. There is an almost invisible split line on on the better one.
Yeah I have invisible split line and no issues after removing collets about 100 times.
Who is the good manufacturer?
Hmmm... No reply or link? Thanks for your "wisdome".
I just bought one with no visible split line, I'm happy to hear your comment. The one stefan fixed had no bearings, just a nice surface that he comments that you can't fault the perfect finish on. Like you said, maybe a different factory👍👌🇦🇺
Thanks for a valuable lesson.
It could be an interesting project to make a new ring gear and two pinions. Just a thought, I'd be interested in it
Great content, love the channel. Bush the holes, make new ring and pinions, do another video. Booyah!
'Another great video, James. I have what seems to be the same chuck, with similar issues. I have only used it a couple of times, so it can't be very worn. I need to do as you have done, and give it a little TLC. Eventually replacing the chuck presents some issues for me, however. You see, this chuck fits my lathe directly: no backing plate needed. I really like that. I don't know if there is a better 5C collet chuck with the same mounting geometry. If so, problem solved, I suppose. I am wondering, however, if there might be a source for the scroll plate and pinions so one might prophylactically replace them? Perhaps made of brass, so the relatively soft steel of the chuck body won't wear so badly?
I just bought the same Bostar 5c chuck, good disassembly tutorial. A few years ago I bought a 5" index head kit from India. Same deal out of the box it's seriously lacking any internal lube, and lots of grit debris. Once I spent a day with disassembly, deburring contact areas with a stone , and adding generous lube the unit scrolls very smoothly. I won't be having issues. The absolute key here is to disassemble your unit BEFORE any usage and take the time to fix all the rushed and neglected secondary cleaning and deburring that should have been done at the factory. Cheap is cheap and you get what you pay for. You just have to be aware .
I've got the one with 3 pinions on my lathe and it's working okay, and I use it all the time. I'm not sure what the gears would look like if I opened it up, probably similar. Mine is 4 years old now and its my daily go to.
The big concern with getting a Sjogren speed chuck is on the data sheet I saw it weighs 19 lbs, now I could be wrong about that, but if it does indeed weigh 19 lbs, that is way too much weight on the spindle bearings of a light lathe, and you have to double check your swing. It'd still be nice to get one, but it could be a very expensive mistake, potentially $1600 mistake.
Mine is soft, I know that, I have to dress the nose eventually and that is going to be a future project. There are some small impressions from debris, but for what i'm doing at the moment it doesn't affect what I'm doing right now.
I use my Milwaukee M12 impact to remove the tap cartridges from mainly kitchen taps (faucets). They can really be well seized and the brass easily rounds off even with a decent spanner. But a couple of ugger duggers and they are out. Fantastic Milwaukee tool again
I don't know if you've also got one of those induction heater things... but this would have been a great project to harden and quench those gears with.
This is hilarious. I bought one of these chucks a decade ago. Mine did not run true when I bought it. I had to make a tool post grinder and regrind the interfaces between the chuck and collets. I watched your previous video yesterday and was surprised how true yours ran. TH-cam suggested this today and it looks like mine may have been better than yours after all!
Great video. Thank you for sharing.
I bought one of these chucks and took it apart. It seems like Bostar took your review to heart.
I did the file test on the gears, and the key-side gears were definitely hardened; I could only barely clean up the burrs at the end.
The big gear was also machined far more acceptably.
The majority of the burrs on the inside chuck face were cleaned up. (they missed one, but it wasn't bad enough for me to clean it myself)
I can't say if it's good or bad until I start measuring TIR on the lathe though. I hope my copy holds true as much as yours.
After i received my chuck I took it apart as you described. I also saw where the ring gear was ground wonky. There was no thrust washer in the recess on mine.
I have a friend who's in the heat treat busniess and gave him all the part to see what could be done. Their expert said the 3 pinions were hard but the ring gear was soft. Now at the cross roads, either I return it as defective, keep it as is and run it or have it heat treated and then se how it works.
There are no replacement chuck any place in this price range, and most do not come with a backer adaptor in 1 3/4" X 8 threads.
I'm temped to have them heat treat it if it won't cost a small fortune. I post back in later......
If you decide to upgrade your best bet is the Little Machine Shop 5C collet chuck. I bought all of the eBay ones and they were all cheaply made and soft like yours. The LMS was the only one that had hardened bevel gears and body as well as the ground face the Collett rides on.
I just bought one from Precision Matthews for at least twice that much but it is the adjustable type. Tried to adjust it with no movement. I took the chuck apart from the included backing plate to find almost no measurable difference between the backing plate center hub and it's mating "hole". In other words; no room for movement! Someone forgot to finish machine the hub to allow for adjustment. PM was surprised as well as I was. I took 20 thousands off and got the movement I needed to dial it in. Got it within 1 1/2 ten thou. I'm happy with that! But all this makes me wonder if I should also take mine apart to check for grit ect. that might be there. The first issue was pretty careless quality control, what else is possible? Enjoy your vids, keep them coming I'm learning a lot.
well, I have several set tru chucks and have had similar challenges...so you're not alone. Quite a bit of difference between bore/hub diameters. Oh, and the really expensive bison came with swarf in gears...so, ya never know!
Well, Precision Matthews just buys Chinese machines and rebrands them. You can find the same machines being imported around the world under different names, such as Warco in the UK and elsewhere. There are different manufacturers of theses things which look almost exactly the same. Some are better than others, but you won’t know until you get it. Buyer beware.
The problem with these companies is that they really don’t check anything other than their most expensive machines at the factory, and pretty much never once they import them. They get the boxes, and ship them out to customers. Grizzly is the same, other than for their South Bend line, which is expensive.
From all the videos I watched on TH-cam, it seems Precision Matthews are constantly surprised by issues with the products they sell. One would think they should be used to these kind of surprises by now and stop being surprised, but instead start anticipating these issues...
5 years ago I bought a Precision Mathews lathe and a 5C collet chuck. I opened all the compartments on the lathe and it was clean. There are a few things about it that are: Chinese, but it is actually better than what I had expected. The collet chuck is very nice, smooth operating. As a hobbyist, I'll never wear it out even if it isn't hardened. I got the 5C collet set by 32's. I've checked runout on many of them and they are quite good. I have bought some by 64s collets for the smaller sizes where 32s is too big of a jump. The good thing about 5C is how short of a part they will hold. I have two other tools that use 5C. The Set-Tru function worked as it should.
Interesting nonetheless to see the corners that were cut to hit that price.
The "oil" fitting is often used for grease. I would not lube this with oil, as it will get slung everywhere. You could try putting some lapping compound between the pinions and gear and using your drill to accelerate the process. You could alsso look at hardening the pinions and gear.
This is why I went with a ER32 collet chuck for the lathe. Works with the collets I have for the mill, but doesn't rely on nearly as much mechanical quality. As long as the threads and taper are okay (and they are on mine) then it's good to go.
I did the same for my Atlas 10" after watching blondie hacks do so. Did not put the work she did into the draw bar. Chuck is Shars which might be a step up from no name.
With 5C though you can hold parts with very little inside the collet. Doesn't work on ER32's. Also you limit what you can pass through the spindle, short pieces only in the ER32, esp if you use the MT2/3 style.
@@gerritvisser my ER40 has a 32mm bore
Almost got one then ended up getting a ER style same size I use on my mill. Great video!
I made some drawings and bought material and a nut to make an ER40 collet chuck, but ended up not doing it (yet). What I really wanted, though, was the ability to use a 5C depth stop.
Your impact driver is sooo clean!
It's pretty new, and that's what they look like when they come out of the box. :)
I bought one of these as well. My spindle nose runout is 0.0002” however I’m having similar issues and haven’t taken it apart yet. After watching this I’m going to convert it to an air powered draw tube.
Thanks James
Nice video. Perhaps a collaboration video is in order where someone can make new internals?
You have inspired me to take mi e apart and see what it is like inside.
Remember the old saying you get what you pay for
I have the same problem with my closer it helped me get a few jobs done before it started to fail so it was kinda worth it
Looking for a new one
On my Chinese 3 jaw chuck, I polished the pinions with a Dremel and they feel way better. Still not as smooth as an expensive chuck, but they work.
The ring gear was really nice and so I left that alone.
I am curious why you did not try and machine that ring gear to smooth out the back and fix that inner area on the gear side?
I bought a less expensive Ebay no name collet chuck for about 200-250 about 5 to 8 years ago. Kinda the same as yours but it had the re centering screws. No problems with it. The insides were clean and the gears not bad. I do think that with the setup that these chucks have, you don't need to crank down on the key. After all its a fine thread on the end of the collet and not a scroll like on a 3 jaw.
Great and informative video. As you say, not overly surprising for the price point. It may have helped to do this right from the get-go but I think it probably would've only prolonged the inevitable.
For a budget collet setup I wonder if Quinn's version is a better alternative 🤔
I think it's a good alternative. The big win with 5C is that you retain the bore through the headstock, and you can use a depth stop in the collet.
I just subscribed James because I've done this work in the past and one can get a super accurate devise by remanufacturing it; made in USA far east finished in USA here.
There is a technique to use on all scroll chucks which will give you better holding with less torque on the T-handle, and preserve your chucks for longer life. Your collet chuck has two pinions for a reason - use both, alternate tightening as you draw in the collet. As you tighten on one pinion only, the scroll tilts to create misalignment slack in the ring gear at the other pinion location. By alternating on the pinions, you remove that slack causing the collet to hold tighter with better alignment, and with less force on the T-handle. Less torque on the T-handle avoids over-tightening damage to the gear assembly in the chuck.
The same technique on all your Jacobs-style chucks (typically 3-pinions, or key positions) will also give you much better results in holding drill bits to prevent them from slipping in the jaws. Failing to tighten all three pinions frequently leads to damaged drill bits, and damaged jaw teeth. Misalignment slack in the scroll loosens the grip when you power the chuck. Then allowing the tool (drill bit or other) to slip in the chuck jaws. Same principle applies to lathe and mill chucks, and all scroll-type closers.
Unfortunately for this chuck that isn't as suitable - if you watch his original video the 2nd pinion introduced a lot of run out
@@bengrogan9710 This makes me think that the ring hear may have excessive axial play on the side of the bad pinion, so it tilts a bit when tightening that side, twisting the back end of the collet.
He could mount up the back end of the chuck and machine the gear bore flat (if not already).
Not sure how the front end of the chuck could be mounted for turning though. Once the gear space is uniform all around, machine the gear faces parallel, and make shim washers to take up any extra space so it can't tilt when the pinions push it forward.
@snaplash the key thing is the ring gear is all the way f**ked without fixing that anything else is wasted effort
Next video, "So I bought a smelting furnace." Great segue into casting new parts from 3D printed plugs. ;-)
Hi James, I'm watching this for the second time and thinking about the "grabiness" when closing the collets. I would suspect the threads on the outside of the collet.
I have a set of them from China and the threads are rough. I went over and "fettled" them with a small triangular file. Especially where the 1/8" location groove crosses the threads. All sorts of raged edges there. Again a flat file in the groove and triangle I the threads made a huge difference.
I never checked the internal thread in the chuck but it wouldn't (or shouldn't) hurt to stick a finger in and feel, carefully, for any jagged edges. If you find any it will probably mean tearing it apart again to fix. But what else do you have to do with your time.
Regards from Canada's banana belt. 👍🇺🇲🕊️🇺🇦🍌🇨🇦🤞
Bruce here,thanks for the video if I do have to take mine apart for maintenance I now have a good idea how to do it.
I wish I would have known that you were visiting Monroe I only live about 1 1/2 miles from Yuchol. I hope to see you at the bash this year. Bill from Seattle. Really Monroe !
Bill
I have one like this that's much worse, including what seems like bad collet threading. This does inspire me to tear it down, although I tremble at what I might find.
The great news is you're unlikely to make it worse. :)
The fact that there is more ware on one pinion and on one side of the bull gear perhaps means you have been using mainly that side to tighten the chuck... just something to think about... Paint the pinion ends contrasting colors to make sure you are using them both... Oh and cast iron gears are cut after casting the blank...
Love that you did this, jut a thought, why not try to make a chuck from scratch, and use this as a templet?
Your lucky. Mine was not threaded right to accept the collet. Can’t return it so now I get to learn how to make a makeshift tap to recut the threads.
About the time you were putting this on your lathe, I was buying a Bison 5c for my own lathe. I have not regretted that choice even a little.
Yeah. When this dies, that's probably what I'll do, unless I decide to build a lever closer
James, I just open mine for the first time and found no needle bearing at all, just the recess. So the gear just turns on the bottom on oil.
I may drill four radial holes for alignment screws.
I'm wondering if the lack of proper lubrication on the ring and pinion has sped up deterioration or if it's really just that soft. Trying to over torque because proper movement couldn't be achieved
Not a chuck, but I recently bought a #3 to #2 Morse taper sleeve from Canada's equivalent to Grizzly Tools. I found the inside taper was 4 thou. out of concentric. The supplier sent me a replacement right away which was 6 thou. out! I suggested that they check their stock as I suspect the entire batch was bad. They gave me a full refund and were very good to deal with.
OK, I'm 6 months late, but I just received my $150 collet chuck today and stumbled upon your informative video! I may do exactly as you have done after I get the mounting plate turned to accept the chuck and make witness marks as you did.
I have a suggestion, since one of the pinon gears was kinda bents up, I would have marked that one as "do not use". My other suggest is a question. Can you apply a Cerakote or other hard surface treatment to reduce the wear after filing and buffing the mating gear teeth? OR can you heat treat the gears to harden them up a bit? The knife maker always show the heating and quenching on the TV shows, and that made me more interested in that process. I have friends in the heat treat industry and maybe they can provide some answers? Sure glad I found this video, thanks, Pat.
Just like you,I bought mine and was super impressed with the runout.
The more I use it the less I am impressed. Mainly having to take the collet half way out for it to release my work. Maybe I'll try to clean mine up this weekend and keep hunting for a semi affordable collet closer
That's probably your cheap collets. The chinese ones aren't sprung as well as say a hardinge collet.
Could you buy one of these new, de-bur and clean everything up and then just heat treat the rack and pinions?
Hey the fun part you did off camera and without a Timelapse. Breaking the restoration laws over here
I'd make or source a new bevel gear. Question is, how hard is the surface the collet rides on?
I would have used sooooooooooooooo much more grease than that so I laughed when you said I might be over lubricating it. Also I would have definitely oil quench hardened those parts.
Disappointing video? You just revealed a very important thing there. I appreciate videos like this.
Not sure if some of this is covered in some other comments. ( Ramble alert)
The pinion seemed to drop in a lot when you pulled the retaining pin. Maybe it is depthed too shallow, and only the tips are engaged. You can drill and tap another retaining pin hole (in the body) on the opposite side of the pinion that will force it deeper into the crown bevel gear. More tooth engagement will greatly increase the time before a tooth fails.
Add an other washer to the needle bearing stack? Reassemble with lapping compound in teeth, and give it some spins, then clean and reassemble.
Also, find a good quality 5c collet and Lap the internal threads of the nut. Additionally make a quick external thread lap for your collets. The cheeper collets can have a bad scale finishes on their threads, and this will greatly increase the torque required to tighten the chuck.
Finally, with the asmymetery of the crown ring nut, one of the pinions will have less slop then the other. For the final "gronk" to set the work piece, use that pinion( it will have better engagement). This should not affect run out like in a scroll chuck. Happy turning.
Right, but which pinion has the best engagement will change as the ring rotates. You're definitely right about the threads on the collets, though.
Great video James, shame about the condition of the pinion and ring gear. You could make a new set...we all know you want to lol
If nothing else it would be an interesting project and a bit of a learning curve.
i have to wonder id lapping compound woyld workspin each pinion with a drill over and over with the compound
I love cheap stuff like that collet chuck and no it's not because "it's just as good" because it simply isn't BUT it gives me something to tinker with and call me odd but servicing tools is one of my favorite hobbies and it's always so satisfying to feel the difference a soft wire wheel and some good moly grease makes for rough parts like this
"well that's not ideal" - understatement of the century
Thank you very much.
You should try the Energy Releaser TM oil additive.
Can you heat treat them? Buy a little extra time out of the ring gear and pinions?
@4:07 are ugah dugha's imperial or metric?