History of WWI Primer 146: German Pistole 04 Naval Luger Documentary
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 พ.ย. 2021
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Othais and Mae delve into the story of this WWI classic. Complete with history, function, and live fire demonstration.
C&Rsenal presents its WWI Primer series; covering the firearms of this historic conflict one at a time in honor of the centennial anniversary. Join us every other Tuesday!
candrsenal.com/primer-gallery/
Additional reading:
candrsenal.com/recommend-read...
Central Powers Pistols
Jan C. Still
The Luger Story
John Walter
Paul Mauser: His Life, Company, and Handgun Development 1839-1914
Mauro Baudino & Gerben van Vlimmeren
The Borchardt & Luger Automatic Pistols
Vol 1 -3
Joachim Gortz, Geoffrey Sturgess
The Guns of John Moses Browning
Nathan Gorenstein
Ammunition data thanks to DrakeGmbH
/ drakegmbh
Animations by Bruno!
/ @baanimations3689
Snail Mail/Contact us at:
candrsenal.com/contact/
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The best Luger, The total package Lex Luger
Lois and Clark version of course. Although the Justice League cartoon version was pretty awesome. 🤣
Take your upvote, damn you.
I'm pissed now!
lex_selling_noises.mp3
Cobra commander would be pleasssed.
I want to mention, since the Thompson-LaGuard tests were brought up, that if one actually looks at their actually findings( not the gun lore version that is commonly referenced in online discussions) , there conclusions and observations actually match up to modern ballistics research. They themselves caveat that many of their tests were unscientific and ended being useless, like shooting hanging cadavers to see how much different calibers knocked them back. They found out that none did, unless the bullet hit a bone, in which case they all pretty much didnt move much in any caliber short of a rifle. And that caliber was actually inconsequential when it came to handguns, as they all just poked holes, and unless you hit something vital( the brain or spine) no caliber was any better than the other at 'stopping ' an attacker. They actually noted that the cause of failures in the Philippines likely wasn't the .38 cartridge itself, but a combination of the Colt revolvers DA trigger being horrible and destroying the users marksmanship, and that being compounded by the Armys lack of actual training in marksmanship. The 1873 Peacemaker was more successful( though actual numbers are kinda vague as to how much) , because it was easier to shoot accurately, same with the 45 DA Colts with the ludicrously enlarged trigger, because it made DA shooting actually manageable. The main reason they ended up recommending 45 as the standard was due to cavalry requirements that the service round had to reliably kill a wounded horse, and a larger caliber like 45 was more likely to manage going through a large animal's skull or ribcage while still keeping recoil manageable than smaller calibers. It should be noted that these guys didnt just go into the stockyards and start shooting animals just to see what happens, they tried to have some kind of methodology, and did work with the University of Chicago to figure out what they needed to do and how to get the information they sought, but this hole concept was new science so they really didnt know.
I seem to have lost my notes of my sources, sadly, but hopefully I (or someone else ) can find them again, because I found it interesting.
I have seen the same information. It is out there if you bother to look outside if fourm posts, etc.
I also recall that they noted that the 7.63 Mauser did the most damage or killed the cows more efficiently (don't recall the specifics) in many cases, but the .45 and .455 hit with more authority and were less shot placement dependant.
Thus would lend credence to them trying to compensate for poor marksmanship.
I have handled more than a few New Army revolvers. The triggers aren't that bad (though not as good as later models), but are a huge difference from a SAA. A soldier used to the nice trigger of a 73 is going to really struggle with any DA of the time.
@@mattnw42 two wheels of training was considered sufficient for pistol proficiency at the time. All this ammunition study simply confirmed that practice was the most important factor.
Interesting, especially the part about horses because didn't the Germans insist on something bigger than 7.65 to penetrate the metal body armor of a French cavalryman or the skull of his horse?
Also there are British accounts of natives absorbing not only .455 but also .303 and keep on coming
The Moro we were fighting you to drug themselves up and some would take a fair bit to take down.
"Looking at you France, you know what you did."
Othais comes across a time machine, goes back in time with a rolled up newspaper and smacks the pistol committee in the nose while shouting "Bad Pierre, No No!"
New timeline has even weirder/worse decisions.
Of course, because they wanted Othias to return
Pierre's Journal: Today a strange man had managed to enter today's meeting of the pistol committee. This man was of titanic stature with a beard to match, as he rained blows upon me and the other committee members saying something in English that I fully don't understand he then unleashed a small furry creature that ate all of the blueberries that had been brought out as part of our lunch.
With us severely beaten and our food plundered both man and creature disappeared out of the room. I know not what we have done wrong in our work on the pistol committee but now I am committed to finding out why and correcting it.
"Mauvais Pierre, non non!"
You know that just means more Ian material…
@@CTXSLPR
"For Greater Elbonia!"
Don't forget Elbonia and their cast off French gear.
After WW2, H. P. White Labs ran some tests on various 9mm ammunition lots. German 1918 (note year) 123 gr. ran 1207 fps out of a P. 38 (4 7/8" barrel). Guns vary, but the Naval Luger would have been no pipsqueak using that end-of-WW1 ammunition. BTW, German 1941 ran a 123 gr. at 1242 out of the P. 38
I have always had a soft spot for the look of a Luger, it just has an elegance to it. Much like a well made sword, it stands out on a display of weapons.
Or an 1860 Colt revolver ! Classic.
An elegant weapon, for a more civilized age.
Sad thing is, I started making enough money to finally support the project, but it's because I am working overtime 6 days a week. So I dont have time to really watch these videos anymore. But glad it's still going.
In 1973, I travelled from the Navy nuclear prototypes in Idaho to my home in Washington. For the trip, I borrowed my room mate's Luger P-08. Once back at the ranch, I had opportunity to shoot the pistol with 9mm ball ammo. Shooting a three foot length of 4X4 standing on its end, from about 10 yards, I hit that piece of wood every time, and the bullet went right through, without knocking the 4X4 over. Happily returned it to him when I returned back to the prototype two weeks later.
Loved the look and the way it handled, but my next pistol purchase was a Ruger Blackhawk in .357 magnum, as I wanted to do more than make my target angry...
Of course, now I know it was the ammo, not the gun. I have two modern 9mm Parabellum pistols that can fire the new JHP bullets that show up well in ballistic testing, and they are a lot easier on the hand than the 357. Would love to have a P-08 Luger now.
Brother, thank you. Your episodes are like Tales of the Gun on steroids, which is the show that started my passion for firearms. Not a pertinent detail missed, not long winded. Kudos
I did not wake up today knowing I would invest Seventy-one minutes into Naval Luger data acquisition. It went by so quick.
Having never fired a Luger, I have to say my criteria is entirely aesthetic, but I still agree with Mae on this being the best Luger. I normally think they're a bit stubby and cluttered, but the longer barrel does something for it.
And being the OG 9mm adds cool points too.
Enjoyed this thoroughly. I own several Lugers, but don't have a Navy yet. I enjoy Mae for her knowledge and enthusiasm. She reminds me a lot of my dear late wife. As a 30 year shooting sports instructor, my only comment to Mae is to keep both eyes open. Closing one eye causes your closed pupil to dilate for the dark. Both pupils work together, so your shooting eye pupil dilates as well. Causes eye strain and watering.
NOT THE NAVYYY!
Thank You for a detailed view of the progression and process. The minuite progression and development are excellent. Mathaias is so precise and detailed and mae is so overtlly satisfied and happey with the experience, it is a convencingly a wonderfully complete presententation. Thank you so much for the informaiton and ensight to the development of arms. I love this content!
One .45 has more stopping power than one 9mm, but you know what has more stopping power than one .45? Two 9mm's.
[May the almighty algorithm accept this offering.]
Shame the ‘loojer’ is only single stack. Gosh, can you imagine how much of a jump it would have been had they fitted a double stack 9mm into the bigger 45 frame? Add a stock and extended mags and ww1 could have easily seen modern 9mm carbines for the trenches
while true, when it comes to pistols usually the purpose is to stop someone very fast up close to keep you from dying. and quickly dumping 7 rounds of .45 (at that time) would’ve been much more effective than 8-9 rounds of 9mm ball. modern ammo it’s much closer, though lightweight 185gr .45 or .45 +p are substantially more powerful than 9mm, though modern 9mm is about the same as a standard 230gr .45 load. you don’t see a significant jump in terminal performance or one shot stops until you get into hot .40sw/357sig loads, or 357magnum and 10mm all of which have substantially more recoil than a 9mm, though the .40 is not only slightly more powerful than *most* .45 loads, but also does not suffer from the ridiculous drop in capacity you get going from 9mm to 45. but in ww1? 9mm was a solid cartridge, though 45 and 7.63 mauser were a bit better cartridges for their purpose (in my opinion)
Just to confirm the proper pronunciation that O&M referred to, it is in fact Loo͞zher. My Grandfather was with an AEF artillery battery that was formed up from draftees out of Hamtramck, Michigan and he regularly referred to his captured P-08 as the "Loo͞zher" when reminiscing about his time fighting in "French".
Ouhhhhh - the P04 is such a beauty, it's so awesomely proportioned, love it!
Best regards
Raoul G. Kunz
I have ALWAYS loved Mae's smile of contentment after firing the subject of the videos at the range.
I absolutely love this channel and along with Ian's forgotten weapons I have learnt about more firearms than I ever thought I needed to lol keep up your fine work because I will always watch your fine documentary quality content :)
The P04 Naval luger has always been my favorite luger model. It is one of my "grail" guns.
Othias, I just want to say thank you. You'd make an excellent history teacher. I'm always impressed with these videos. Kudos to you, Mae and the rest of the crew.
Never fails that I'm about to get to bed on time and then a new C&Arsenal video pops up......
This one is especially appreciated, as there's so much "bad"/messy info on Lugers out there, with the P 04 often relegated to being called a "six inch P 08". The nicest looking Luger and world's first adopted 9mm Para pistol deserves more respect than that. :(
Made my night guys...thank you!!!
Smokeless not Nosmoke powder! I reloaded for both the 7.65mm and 9mm Luger cartridges and found DuPont powders to be the cleanest burning. I would like to see Mae shoot the .45 Cal Luger from either Luger man or Krause.
I used to work for John Martz Luger maker from Lincoln, CA and he made Naval reproductions with the naval sights and we fired these at approximately 200 yards with shoulder stock and it was very accurate at the 200 yard range even though, the sights were set for meters. Also, speaking of 9mm Luger pistols, these pistols will shoot machine pistol ammunition safely; the coil mainspring has to be lengthened however, to accommodate the faster bullet.
That might make for an interesting episode of reprocution actually, use the modern 45 lugers to give at least some impressions on the idea.
Great episode guys
Only I have thought about this and you did video about this luger.
Great thank you!
That barrel length .It is so much better than the land pistol .
I imagine the space pistol would be better
My Arty mm idea luger with a dark bore and quality fmj ammo shot very well making very small groups.
@@jim99west46long barrel and long sight radius always equals better mechanical accuracy, and also faster follow up shots and ease of aim for the shooter too.
Episode Were Declared Fantastic🦊
The look of sheer joy when Mae is shooting it with the shoulder stock...
Thanks guys.
Fantastic. Thanks!
Great episode!
I love your videos - so knowledgeable and entertaining - and Mae :)
Thank God you are still making long form videos.
Thank our patrons!
Woo new episode
That feeling, when you realize that the only close to modern weapon, ever showcased on this channel is the SKS. 😳😳😳
...But what about Othais Foldy-Boi Pistol Transformer Toy Gun?
@@JonManProductions Kel-Tec's are not modern weapons, they are meme weapons, big difference.
t. Kel-Tec lover.
Well truthfully most modern weapons are based on designs a century or more old. Once the basics of reliable smokeless simi/full auto was figured out it has all been refinement how to make it work well. None of the new technologies have yet to prove worthy of displacing the proven systems.
@@anameofsomesort959 That explains why I want virtually everything Kel-Tec makes.
You have to give them props for bothering to innovate, though. No one else seems to try.
@@Bacteriophagebs Them or the cocaine? Or is it still them for doing the cocaine? Hmmm.....
Nice vedio, all correct information in a pleasant pace, great story telling. And when Mae shoting it, she demonstrates both the squeeze cocker and the safty lever, very professional as a vedio instructor. Love this one, peace to you both.
You guys are doing amazing work, upped my patreon level
Educational. entertaining. best TH-cam channel! Thoughtful. Accurate.
Luger season continues on C&R And Forgotten Weapons
I have noticed that kind of overlap a few times before. I wonder if one gets access to a collection and sets the other up as well when they can.
Now I want to see Mae do luge while carry a Luger.
Shooting a Luger while 'luging' would certainly speed up the biathlon!
The phrase ‘hock a luggie‘ (your spelling may vary) was said to have been originated by Belgian troops. The Belgians, having retreated by boat across a canal, used the phrase in their description of Germans firing Naval Lugers from a bridge at the rapidly rowing targets below.
I don't have time to watch this today. But I made time to like and comment.
I love this channel
I have handled and shot all the German examples and a commercial 7.62. I agree the Navy is the best, though the commercial ones with the big US creast is really neat
Thanks
NICE ! with that stock option the gun is rock steady. What fun they must be bto shoot
GASP! It WAS there the entire time.
I as german naval top admiral ordered up 83 10mm naval lagers from the luger factory in 1962 with 4 mags each and thousands of ammo rounds from Winchester. 308 cases cut exact at 25mm with a .400 fmj bullet and bought some of the .45 usa test lugers at first for conversion.
I Knew an old guy that bought one at a yard sale for 435 bucks still packed in cosmoline and had the factory ammo ,click on stock and walnut box. This was ages ago.
Jam-O-Matic. I'm speaking from experience. But it looks cool with the shoulder board, and it was Captain Nemo's gun in the movie "League of Extraordinary Gentleman". It's a keeper 😀
Yes, just when I was caught up on the Pistol primers! Don't forget to comment peeps it helps boost them in the algorithm
Comment for the youtube gods! It's amazing to see you're about to hit 400k subs! You deserve it!
Every time I see Mae shoot ... I cry inside. Her 30 foot 1 hand with a Luger is better than my 2 hand with a modern S&W. I need more ammo.
She's almost too good. Time and again she talks about a gun's bad characteristics, ones backed up by Others' research, and yet all or almost all of her shots would have killed the opponent.
man you really do need to practice and train more if 10yds is an issue for you
I seem to recall reading a description of someone shooting a stocked Luger at 1000 yds. The shooter was able to get some hits on the target, which is about 6'x6'.
Happy Happy Joy Joy
Finally, 50 second before release
The book The Ludendorff Pirates talks about an example of this pistol showing up in the armory of a fictional Bismarck-class battleship, loaded with the Trommel magazine. A quirky character arms himself with one rather than the MP38s he retrieves for his comrades. However, the authors mistakenly refer to it as being select-fire, which this obviously isn't.
I had an artillery Luger years ago
Happy positive comment. Also educational and enjoyable 😁
I notice while May was shooting , the genetic energy rising on weapon barrel without stock . You can see as her hand absorbs the recoil , where the safety in the lever backwards model could be come dislodged onto safe mode , but forward lever safety works in conjunction with kinetic energy to keep weapon on safe position. Maybe the reason for change considering fatigued parts for warring nations safety springs . Just a thought . Also the small caliber as far as food goes. Makeing the stock super preferable. If I was in the Alps in the winter on ski patrols , a motorcycle or smuggling them into an enemy embassy. They'd be the 5icket . I love this video gonna share it . Thanx May !
I wish Ruger would make a Luger, just so I could have a Ruger Luger.
But seriously, that’s a neat firearm with a lot of backstory. Thanks for filling it in.
I'm surprised someone isn't doing a reproduction. Modern CNC machining should keep the cost somewhat reasonable.
@@mikespangler98 I'd love a repro, then I wouldnt have to feel bad shooting an 80 year old gun
The Cz. 61 Scorpion is almost a perfect example of an effective pdw/pcc. A quick bump on the wire stock and your set. Some development could lead to better cartridges like 9mm or the FN 5.7
Been a minute in the making!
Looger... Love it! Engagement hahaha!!!!
During the height of the recent ammo shortage, for some reason a LGS had several boxes of 7.65 Parabellum available.
The right action could still work with BP just fine, I handload for my SMLE using 200gr .311 cast pills with 52gr of 2F, rear locking lugs let's the rifle put up with fouling a mauser or mosin wouldnt be happy with, I also tried 2F loaded into 7.62x51 to try out of an M1A, It worked alright(still not great) as a strait-pull bolt action for 14rds, so yeah theres definately a cutoff as th how advances actions can be and still handle powder fouling, Enfield yes, Veterli yes, Mannlicher strait pulls eat it up, winchester lever actions sure thing, mausers made after 1889 fuggin hate BP, mosin's are generally disgruntled by it but so long as you can apply boot or mallet to bolt handle it keeps running, and Ross's just scream "YOU KNOW WHAT MY FUGGIN LUGS ARE, WHY IN THE HELL!, WOULD YOU DO THIS TO ME!?!? YOU SALTY, SALTY B***H.
WOW!
Of course the artillery wanted 500m sights on a pistol, they are used to do indirect fire. 😉
wow rare one!
Mae/Othias, was watching Ian's vid on the Farquar Hill... have you guys got any plans to do a 'Project Lightening ' on WW1 Automatic Rifles?
Love the channel
Old Gorge Lujer does it again
Excellent video as usual, a utreon supporter.
Same here, once I found out you get the same perks and the channel gets a higher percentage of the cash it was an easy switch.
How is Utreon's website and ui? Is it a quality site compared to patereon?
@@anameofsomesort959 I would say so it's like TH-cam as well with its own video service.
@@anameofsomesort959 I prefer the layout to the patron one. Utreon's main channel page does a good job of letting you quickly find a certain playlist/series if you want.
400,000 subscribers, I think this is for 2nd time. Still congratulations.
Cool
I still wonder why the Lugar has that half-circle trigger. If it was explained and I missed it, please let me know where it was discussed. It just seems odd to have a piece of the trigger loop around like that.
Sorry this is a bit late, it wasn't mentioned but I imagine it just is another leftover bit from the C93, probably due to the weird interlocking crescent trigger and transfer bar, it must not have mattered enough to change as the gun developed into the Luger.
@@shyfox_69 thank you
Great video as always.
*Obligatory Content Question:* more reprocussion?
One of the three US trial .45 Lugers is a hour from me in a small Louisiana museum. Want me to sneak ya a pic of it?
And this video makes me wonder something specific yet again. From the very start, the 9mm Parabellum cartridge used a 124 grain bullet. Yet, for some odd reason, 115 grain bullets have become the standard here in the USA. If anyone knows why that it, please feel free to share with me. Thanks.
It’s probably still the “Commonwealth Standard” loading the British set up between the wars and the Allies used in WWII.
With my American Eagle Stoeger Luger I found that after a 50 round box is was field cleaning time. I wonder if that was the jam issue Othais mentioned?
Possible but the Luger here has had a rough life. The frame is bent slightly, among other things.
Algorithm!! Cool video.
King of the Luger!
You heard it. Mae goes for the Naval boys.
Do you guys know that there's a Luger Rifle called the Selbstlader 1906?
King of the Lugers!
Gun Sasquatch and the Mae the ghost voice of animation
i love you mae ; )
28:43 “Stock Options “ in DWM …why yes please
Luger sure could hustle. Wouldn’t want to between him and his money. Georg don’t play.
There is just a unique elegance about the Luger. For some reason it seems a shame to have it in a larger caliber, a smaller bore round just seems to fit
49:50 what is that machine gun in the foreground? Is that a Hotchkiss gas system?
A handsome looking pistol, (the host could be upgraded to the Mk 1*).
Hello! A question. I have a navy Luger that has World War I Imperial German Navy acceptance markings and by serial number it was made in 1916, but on the barrel it has the year 1920 inscribed, in which it was reworked. The interesting thing is that the barrel was not shortened to 10 cm. but they left him the 15 cm. which I understand is contrary to the provisions of the Versailles Treaty. The pistol does not have any military port markings (WK, WW or WD), but whoever sold it to me said it was owned by a German marine on a WWII ship. It may be so? Thank you very much!
The 1920 is not a rework date, it is actually a property mark indicating that the pistol was the property of the weimar Reichswehr.
Does anyone know if German officers were required to purchase their own sidearms during WWI (like the British), or if they were issued (as with the U.S. and, I believe, France)? I’ve been watching some of the earlier C&Rsenal vids on German .32 pistols, and they seem to suggest that pistols were sold to officers through military stores.
For that matter, besides the British (and other Commonwealth troops), were there any other nations that made their officers purchase sidearms during WWI?
Should've called them Lugeys, like loogy
1:09:39 (whispers) pssst hey guys, all guns have crowns already (/whispers)
Love the smile. I’d be smiling to if I got trigger time on that
Mae is right. Go with the 45acp. lol
Knew I saw Misty.
How often do they find errors in the present release episode
Have the shirt been sent out yet?