History of WWI Primer 145: Swiss Luger 1900 Documentary
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ต.ค. 2021
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Othais and Mae delve into the story of this WWI classic. Complete with history, function, and live fire demonstration.
C&Rsenal presents its WWI Primer series; covering the firearms of this historic conflict one at a time in honor of the centennial anniversary. Join us every other Tuesday!
candrsenal.com/primer-gallery/
Additional reading:
candrsenal.com/recommend-read...
Central Powers Pistols
Jan C. Still
The Luger Story
John Walter
Paul Mauser: His Life, Company, and Handgun Development 1839-1914
Mauro Baudino & Gerben van Vlimmeren
The Borchardt & Luger Automatic Pistols
Vol 1 -3
Joachim Gortz, Geoffrey Sturgess
The Guns of John Moses Browning
Nathan Gorenstein
Ammunition data thanks to DrakeGmbH
/ drakegmbh
Animations by Bruno!
/ @baanimations3689
Snail Mail/Contact us at:
candrsenal.com/contact/
Kaiser Willy: What would a hundred thousand Swiss do if I invaded with two hundred thousand men?
Swiss Soldier: Shoot twice
Shoot twice and go home
Threaten the secret bank accounts of the leaders of the 200000.
Who needs guns when you have the money?
@@julianshepherd2038 The Gnomes of Zurich always triumph over the Bavarian Illuminati... (at least, IME.) ;-)
@@nunyabidniz2868 Dude you just gave me an idea for a grand strategy game... Freemasons, Illuminati, all playable on a Europa Universalis map where you can use all the tricks to accumulate power and go all Deus Ex on the other groups! Toss in a secret unlockable Reptilian faction and _chefs kiss_
Now I just need money... and the means... and the time... and the talen-
@@planescaped it's too bad that you can't lock down what could be a very lucrative concept for a game 🤔
Glad to be back folks!
We’re glad too.
Well wishes to you and yours
That has to be a stage name like Cher. My brain can't handle Winchester being your real last name.
The Luger is such a fascinating link between the rather alien designs of the first semi-autos and the “modern” concept of what a pistol should be.
Indeed, and I think Othais is not far off when he suggests that the Colt 1911's ultimate configuration of safety and magazine release was encouraged by the Luger's success in these areas. If not for the fact that Lugers simply were expensive to make, I think Lugers would have competed with the 1911a1 for longest-serving semiautomatic service pistol. Really, until the 1990s when everyone seriously starts wanting to put fancy accessories on their military sidearms which wouldn't ever fit on a Luger, there is not much else bad about the Luger apart from the price tag.
@@genericpersonx333 The idea of an alternate trail outcome with the Luger in 45 winning is an amusing concept, a US fighter in WW2 Europe trying to fit a US mag in a German gun would make for an amusing, if dark, image.
@@tenofprime Indeed, dark, but the sort of thing soldiers do love to joke about.
@@genericpersonx333 extending the frame below the barrel with a Picatinny rail would make that possible (but it wouldn’t look much like a Luger anymore).
@@genericpersonx333 The toggle lock is pretty clearly inferior to the Browning tilting barrel (and its derivatives). Even if it wasn't a cost issue, they are much more finicky and are a massive PITA to clear malfunctions.
It is unlikely it sees significant service past WWII even if it was of comparable cost to Browning derived actions.
The swiss and toggle locks, a match made in heaven or hell depending on if you had to maintain and pay for them
My Swiss toggle-locked stove works wonders!
The ergonomics are a huge leap towards what is standard in handguns today but the mechanical action is so old school. I think this juxtaposition makes the Luger fascinating.
You mean more contextual history?
That is almost as appealing as a van with "Free Ammo" painted on the side.
I actually really love these development focused episodes, so this is an absolute treat to me
Same here, it is fascinating to look back on the how and why of these historical pieces of engineering.
And learning about the designer’s life is always a fun bonus in these episodes.
Very much same here. I'm not generally huge into guns, but the history and mechanicals of great war-era firearms is *fascinating*. But, then, I think my dream job would be doing experimental archaeology.
You really need to get into the issues with manufacture of the Luger. Even in wartime they had to be finished to a high level to function (there are no rough finished Lugers). Repair required hand fitting in an era when part interchangeability was becoming key in military arms. It is really an old world craftsmen weapon in a world that was rapidly going to semi-skilled labor mass production.
It's hard to forget the lessons we've learned in the past hundred plus years, and I find myself saying, in reference to some of the comments in the trials, "Why would they want that?" The answer, of course, is that they didn't know any better. They didn't have the benefit of a hundred years of experience.
I see the elegance of the Luger being that, for all it's "warts" it shrugs off what would cripple many far more developed designs. It really takes the opposite approach to what we would typically want to do with a design. Instead of moderate tolerances and having everything covered up tightly, the tolerances are tight and mostly exposed to the elements; and it works.
Othias' rant on mechanical beauty is hilarious. I agree on all points, although I can also admit that it has a bit of the steampunky baroque aspect. I think it's a great advance over the Borchardt and so much better, as your trials data showed, that denigrating it for its old-fashioned features misses the point that it had so many advances elsewhere.
I think its beauty lies in its proportions... slender, elegant barrel, lovely grip tilted rakishly, jewel-like surfaces on toggle lock, mag release, etc.
I was thinking of the word "steampunk" as well.
For me it's handsome all funtioning features on display.
I used to reload the 7.65mm Luger pistol cartridge and I found that the 7.63 load and bullet weight of 85 grains could be used in later 1906 Luger pistols in 7.65 mm. The later pistols could use a more powerful main spring and the chamber/barrel area could stand the excess pressure. I had a 1970s Mauser Luger pistol in 7.65mm and did indeed load the 7.63mm Mauser load in the 7.65mm case and it worked perfectly. I had no pressure problems. I ended up working for John Martz Luger maker making, all kinds of Luger parts, stocks, grips and magazine bases. A fun pistol to work on and shoot. Great display folks; love your show. At 40:20, I set the playback to 0.25x of normal and one can see the bounce of the left toggle knob.
I really feel like this hole "race to perfect the semi-auto handgun" could make a really good TV drama/ historical fiction novel/anime or something. I enjoy hearing the interplay and personalities of the various designers/engineers and managers.
Colt's whacky adventures - 14+ age rated anime, 30 minute episodes ("The Cowboy Gunsmith")
French and German race for bolt action cartridge rifles - serious political drama/thriller, 70 minute episodes ("The Rifle Men")
General semi auto development in Europe - adult animated series, 50 minute episodes ("Engineers, Aristocrats and Other Great Men")
Browning single handedly revolutionizing every gun type he works on - 16+ age restriction action series, 60 minute episodes ("The Prophet")
Machineguns from Gatling to Maxim, ending in ww1 - office style mockumentary series, 45 minute episides ("Machineguns")
Bonus: M-16 and AK-47 development - cyberpunk style action/drama anime, showing the 50s and 60s as incredibly futuristic worlds as the people in 1900 would feel like seeing that world - [name undecided yet]
Bonus2: KelTec history : it is just Superjail in style but shows hol they invent their cool weird guns.
Gotta admit, it's nice to see someone take steps toward debunking the 'American mag release button' nonsense. Having been mildly obsessed with Lugers since I was a kid, that never made any sense to me when all the contemporary American pistols of that time used heel releases more often than European pistols of the day, at least when you consider that stripper clip loading was still in favor for a good while.
Of course I also grew up shooting P.38's, so I have never been able to understand why people could have so much trouble with heel releases either, it's still effortless to me and encourages mag retention which makes more sense when you don't have the massive logistical support machine of a military to supply more mags and ammo.
I find that most Americans(I'm an American as well) are extremely reluctant to learn another manual of arms when it comes to operating a pistol. If it doesn't have a button release with dropfree mags they don't want it, the fact HK had to make a separate version of the VP9 is proof enough of that.
Americans (including myself) have a (waning) obsession with careful slower shooting and rapid reloads. At least in my experience
A request for the future…
Revisit old episodes/guns that were also used in WW2 and/or include the full service history of weapons you cover in future episodes… please🤞
Also: Anything Lewis & Crozier is always a treat!!
They still need to cover this one certain 11.43 mm firearm.......
Wheet!
I believe that they have stated that anything more recent than WW1 will be covered in future episodes on WW2 so that people don't get the history confused as far as when it happened
A comparison between the British Bren, Czech ZB-26 (as used by the Germans) and Japanese model 96 would be interesting.
Beauty may well be in the eye of the beholder, but to my eye, the Luger's lines are almost as gorgeous as the 1898 Schwarzlose and at least as elegant as the 1905 Mannlicher.
All of the external moving bits are what makes it look cool to me. There's enough guns with everything sealed inside. I'm also used to seeing Lugers, I've never been able to shoot one. But seeing them in photos, movies, books, and gun shops most of my life, they don't look weird to me at all.
Old-school courting: “I’ll shower you with jewels once my awesome gun design takes off.”
Would certainly woo me
There’s something especially fascinating -and heartwarming -about well seasoned bearded men in gently disheveled three-piece dress suits posing with ancient lead-stuttering contraptions like the water-cooler Maxim…
Is there a modern day “turn-of-the-century” period-range day somewhere? I want in on some of that action…
Eh just allow your beard to season, find a cheap 3 piece with hat, take pics post them on r/guns and let reddit do the rest.....
Also the 1930s equivalent, square-jawed fortyish men in trilby hats, ties, and suspenders, their jackets hung on chairs and shirtsleeves rolled up, testing submachine guns and smoking pipes at the same time.
"The path to the 1911 is finally open."
YES. THE SACRED PATH IS FINALLY UPON US.
This is very nice. I have a soft spot for Luger pistols because of their visible mechanism and elegant lines so I hope I can afford one in the future (doesn't matter much which one but preferably pre-WW2).
It's the first of (succesful) modern pistol designs and the last example of the old ones which all depends on the angle you see that weapon from.
If we take the Browning school of thought and the Luger school of thought then we draw some kind of Venn diagram and try to sort every automatic pistol produced in last 80 years I'm almost sure that 98% of those weapons would link to at least one of these schools in distinctive way.
I think Othias should carry Mae on his shoulders and jog up and down on the Firing line to see how Maes' Marksmanship is effected FOR SCIENCE!!
Of course this has to be filmed and featured in the next video - and somehow crozier has to be included in there too. strictly for sience of course...
@@JosipRadnik1 crozier would be maes hat
Hmm... no heart for comment? Did Othais not see your suggestion or does he not endorse the idea?
.30 Luger is my favourite pistol cartridge.
Just judging by the way you spelled "favourite" I imagine you also enjoy messages by carrier pigeons, horse hoof gelatin desserts, and music from wax cylinder records. Favorite or not, what do you actually carry?
@@mattmarzula Statistically speaking that would be probably 9 mm Luger.
@@mattmarzulaCarry? Nothing. I'm a target shooter. I put holes in paper at 50m and I like to do it with .30 Luger.
Great historical overview. Never appreciated Borchardt life’s work.
Can’t wait for the other videos in series.
This episode is truly a masterpiece, the intricacies of the Luger trigger cinematic , the complexities of the L.Loewe/Mauser/Borchardt/Luger relationships, the anxieties of the Swiss commission in adopting the first (.. second) self-loading small-caliber official military contract sidearm, all politely and clearly described in order to shed much needed light on how these steampunk dreams became real objects that characterized an entire era.
Re:Snappy. The mass of the recoiling parts is similar in both the Luger and a slide action gun. With a slide, the barrel represents no more than 25% of the mass of the moving parts and it comes to a stop after about a quarter inch of rearward travel when the action unlocks. The greater mass of the slide is decelerated over about 1&3/4 inches. In a luger, the barrel and barrel extension represent about 70% of the recoiling mass. When the action unlocks, this (much greater) mass comes to a hard stop by banging against the frame. Hence “snappy.”
Thank you kind peeps
I agree with Othais on aesthetics; the grip and barrel are "swoopy" and very smooth, whereas the action is covered in steampunk-esque twiddly bits.
I have one of the Stoeger retro American Luger's from the late 1980's. It is the most naturally pointing hand gun I have every held. Releasing the safety on the draw is like any other pistol you would do that to, a matter of training. I have trained to that when I carry my Beretta 92FS around the rural property I know live on.
Personally I like the aesthetics of the C93 Borchardt and Luger, it's got all these mechanical bits and bobs and moving parts on the outside making it visually interesting. After the mud of the trenches, gun design buried the mechanicals into the bowels of the gun making them appear more streamlined and frankly a bit more boring to look at. I look at a glock and all I see is a rectangle, like those fake sub machineguns from the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen movie.
Funny thing is that the Luger handles trench mud better than most contemporary ‘rectangular’ designs. Just because the Borchardt/Luger action is so violent it throws mud off itself.
I swear I've seen one old game when the luger's bolt is just slapped like how Othaias showed. But I for the life of me cannot remember which one it was.
I think maybe _Medal of Honor: Allied Assault,_ but don't quote me...
Cleaning my Luger while watching this!!! It's a good night
Engagement!
As for the game designers comment, unfortunately the vast majority of 3d modelers and animators don't have hands on with the weapon in question, let alone any weapon, to properly animate them. The best resources they have is a quick youtube/google search, and even then they basically go for the first thing that pops up because generally, the model maker won't really have an interest in what they are making, it's just a job for them. Otherwise, its a deliberate decision to animate them the way they do, due to either having to strike a balance between different weapons (which they rarely get right) as in the case of RDR2, where the volcanic pistol is the most powerful hand gun in the game and the colt SAA is the weakest revolver, or to showcase the modeling prowess of their team, as in the case of Fallout 4, where many of the guns are left handed to show off the functioning bits of the model and the cool animations.
easily a dream pistol of mine, with wood grips and straw bluing it looks sharp!
I got a Swiss Luger (the common model 1906/29) so I'm happy to see a Swiss Luger video. Hopefully they mention it's achievements in the Olympics. 😉
I think guns like the Luger are timeless classics because unlike many other older designs you can still pick one up and it would feel familiar and still be viable in a modern environment. Even though long in the tooth I would not feel poorly armed with one. It still performs...and it does it with an elegance most modern pistols totally lack.
A day off from work, a big cup of coffee and a new C&R episode about my favorite pistol. Perfect.
it is so good to you you back and well.
fantastic episode too.
The being able to see the mechanism of the toggle lock / release is appealing to me.
Wow , that was a complicated one. Love the history of the people behind the guns just as much as the firearms themselves.
Always impressed by How Fast the action is. Agree with the steampunk posters; this thing needs an ivory paint job, filigree, & a small gauge somewhere.
I love these long form videos!
It’s good to see you guys back.
23:30 Accuracy, reliability... that's all fine and well, but what about coolness? That Bergmann No.5 should have won!
Probably a good thing I don't get to decide on military contracts.
I mean, I still want a bergman. But one of the older ones, like a bergman model 1 or 3 in .22
Been waiting for this episode for awhile! Can’t wait to dig in
Awesome vid, thank you a former patron now a utreon. Just bought a colt shirt.
Speaking of Sharps…
We desperately need the development of the Sharps rifle, it’s use in the Civil War and Berdan’s Sharpshooters.
Perhaps Mr. Karsada could be procured to help given his affinity for black powder weapons 🤔
I would also enjoy a spin off series on flintlocks of the Napoleonic Wars.
@@AbbieOates would be amazing
So happy to see everyone alive and back at it I love this series makes my day every other Tuesday
I am so happy to see you guys back.
Saw this in pre release such a good episode so glad to you guys back and healthy ❤
Always love seeing a new episode. Excited for next time!
Excellent discussion and breakdown of the history and function of the pistol. Great.
The Swiss probably loved the complexity.
In life, there are winners and Lugers.
I'm glad all you guys are OK. Thanks for this good video!
24:10. Add to that, it takes (the wish for) 3 hands to clear a stoppage, due to not having a manual toggle hold open. It's a match pistol in military drag. ...the 1911 had the opposite evolution. Both realities leading to criticisms of unreliability for each pistol in the present day. Lugers need a clean action and a bloody stiff mag spring for reliability, and the most reliable 1911 has accuracy-reducing slop (or is as meticulously hand-fitted as the Luger was, to make it match grade).
Thank you for your hard work
I just love these long episodes, I can't help but imagine the time to record these big boys.
I'm not sure what it is, but lugers always do it for me, they're just so cool looking and they always have the best looking finishes.
absolutely top notch as always
The legal battle between Luger and browning may be dull to some but I honestly would like to see a short court room dramatization film about it and the various legal depositions going back and forth. That and the infamous Bannerman v Winchester case where Winchester dug up a whole bunch of previous slide action mechanical patents and then built prototypes of those patents just to make their case.
Love you all! Welcome back!
My Halloween was quite happy. Thanks Mae.
Mae's occasional color commentary is quite funny. 😃
This video is nice being half way through Fred A Datig's book 'the luger pistol'. It fills in all the gaps that he had missed. It's a must have book if you love lugers.
Excellent presentation! Very informative and educational.
Do the various grip angles of early pistols have anything to do with different holds? In a lot of photographs of shooters around the turn of the century, they're using a bent-arm grip and are quite square-on to the target.
IME, a balance that is not quite neutral is good: a slight muzzle heaviness gives the muscles something to work against, and in a lot of fine work it seems easier to get precise control against a small resistance.
50:04 "... and served on until World War On- Two."
I love this.
A more different Luger, with a more different Parabellum!
Simly Perfect Präsentation ! Sehr schön und interresant
I'll be honest the pistol episodes are not normally my top favorites. I tend to look forward to the rifles more. Having said that I really enjoyed this episode. I also can't wait for the 1900 as I really enjoy 1911s and just about anything Browning designed. Maybe its simply because I'm more familiar with these pistols when compared to some of the other ones. I also really enjoy when more of the development history is gone into. It's nice to learn a little about the people or person behind the gun.
I do still watch all the episodes. It's just that I found this one particularly interesting.
wooo new episode lets gooooo
bravo... another classic
What a treat, love a good steampunk episode.
Great video
I am dripping with anticipation at this episode as I own one of these 😀
This November I'm thankful that Ian can't Othais.
Luger using Winchester lever action toggle action on a pistol with wings.
IF there is a beat up enough one someone would give Ian/Karl, it'd be fun to see how bad it did on a mud test.
Edit: Of course they already did it, lol. Awesome.
Welcome back!
Thanks!
Very Nice!
These folks have been places. Like the gun section in libraries. 😎 Amazingly well-informed and fascinating channel.
1:00:50 that technique works very well for Beretta 92s as well. Also helps avoid accidentally engaging the safety. Also helpful for people with compromised grip strength.
Fantástico ,muy buena explicacion
I love your show!!!! always shoot luger p08 from one hand !!!!!
You just sold me a book, I can barely wait for it to get here!
Borchardt did some nice designs, love the single shot. Too bad he didn't seem to want to redesign his auto pistol.
Missed u guys
95 and this was exceptional, as always
Thanks
damn it just looks so beautiful
The toggle action of the Luger and the action of the Vector are opposites. You might say the Vector is sort of a Luger flipped upsidedown.
A multi episode on the development of the luger cool folks
Great show as always, comments for the algorithm monster.
Hot damn another primer video, I can sleep later
Man I want the grips from the 1899 model, those look *snazzy*
It's dark, muddy and noisy. I would rather reload this, basically just bringing my hands together, than try to fiddle with C96, Mannlicher or something similar.
Also, how many years after the Luger and Browning pistols did armies realize that maybe a detachable box magazines are more efficient than trying to use stripper clips in rifles?
Stripper clip rifles used up to the 60s
Probably when
1) steel stamping tech became good and widespread enough that giving everybody 6-12 detachable mags became affordable for most armies
2) Magazines got large enough that stripper clips became unwieldy. I wouldn't want to reload 30 rounds with stripper clips!
How does this channel not have at least 500k subs
I own several Luger pistols but the Swiss has the best trigger and sights.
I got the book in the mail yesterday & had no idea you'd talk about t when I watched the vid