Rupert Neve MBT Hardware VS Kiive Audio Nfuse Plugin Emulation
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 มิ.ย. 2024
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In this video I directly compare the Rupert Neve MBT hardware to the new Kiive Audio plugin emulation. The Rupert Neve MBT is one of my favourite pieces of equipment I have in my mastering studio. I have one in Studio A and another in Studio B. So when I saw that Kiive Audio had a plugin emulation available I jumped at the chance to check it out. In this article I have accessed every aspect of the Kiive Audio NFuse plugin and I have come to the conclusion that it is not a true emulation of the Rupert Neve MBT. However this isn’t a bad thing because this plugin is actually very good and functions like a MBT. It just doesn’t emulate the hardware 100%. If you think of the NFuse plugin as a plugin separate from the hardware, you have a great sounding saturator, EQ, compressor and stereo widener. Nothing wrong with the plugin, it is very usable in it’s own right.
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I was waiting for that comparison! ❤
One of the few channels that if a new video is released I’m watching it asap. I really love good comparisons and most importantly for me is if it ends up being used. Thanks ❤
Thank you. Appreciated
I like that he basically goes straight into the comparison. I tried watching a few other videos on this same topic and they talk FOREVER before we get into the actual comparisons. This guy gets it!! 👍🏿👍🏿💯💯
was waiting for this, thx:)
Apart from the compressor, every other section sounded as different as 2 different units of the same hardware could sound: I could pick hardware or plugin and it wouldn't make any difference at all, just small nuances. Compressor is what really makes the hardware stands out imho: It really makes everything alive, pumping and feels like transients are breathing. Great comparison, thanks for your videos. Keep it up! ;)
We asked and he delivered! Thank you so much for putting this video together, I love this channel!!
I like the way you explain hardware vs plugin....we have to accept that ...thnx a lot
yayayayaya great review thanks for your honesty🔥🔥🔥 any thoughts on Pulsar Modular P455 MDN Sidecar plugin when u got time..
Did you oversample it? Also, I heard that if you have two MBTs, they will both sound different but still have the same characteristics. The developer even compared his hardware to the access analog one, and it sounded different.
It is very important to know if oversampling was used in these examples since the screenshots cut off those settings
Great review and thoughts!
Paul, Excellent video!!!! You mentioned you use the NFuse now for the saturation. Where in a mix chain would you put it if you have a hardware compressor and lets say the new Cranborne HE2? Have you ever used like API or Capi mic/line pre-amps on your master buss for mixing?
I use it near the start of the chain, I always see the MBT as a tool to bring life into the lows and highs before going into doing detailed processing.
Awesome review! 👊🏾💯👏🏾
saturation sounds so good!
Just listened to it through decent in-ears that are my day to day buds, and the difference in the last example is significant in the bass. Kick and transient information is similar in the lows, but the actual bass just fades into the back with the plugin. The top, in my street headphones, isn't significantly different.
Appreciate the fair assessment AAS
Paul, you're absolutely the best when explaining and comparing. It's not so much anything is better but more like different but at the same time it all sounds good. at the end of the day will the average consumer be able to tell the difference? Maybe yes, maybe no, then again are they comparing music tracks with plugins or hardware or are they just listening to their favorite artists?
It's not a direct emulation. It's a really good recreation of the hardware for the digital world. Which is great and is the reason why I use the plugin often.
Interesting, bought the plugin for the saturation alone. Nice to see expert ears like that component.
Saturation is usually where plugins fail in emulations, so this is very cool!
Love your honesty...❤
Thank you
I have a question not related what is your thoughts on summing mixers? Specifically I'm looking at the RPN 5059 Satellite.
Summing mixers are great if you want to go down that route. I used to use a 36 channel SSL summing mixer and whilst it was great I get far better results from working on an Avid S4. I'm not sure I'd ever go back to an analogue summing mix after using an Avid S4.
The great thing about this plugin for people that already own the MBT is that you can do stereo width on each bus. Such a pain to do on individual buses with hardware only
Hello, it’s me or there is not a stereo inversion in the A/B test??
Thanks for your work, very interesting test🙏🤘👍
If the day should come when plugins do actually sound as good, I will start selling off some of my Neve hardware - but that day is not today. Always love the comparison videos 😊
Yeah, I'm yet to find analogue can be replaced. I find it's a combination of both in a hybrid workflow. Plugins have huge benefits that analogue can't do. Combining the two is really where we get the best of both worlds.
@thisguy5611 well I don't technically think overall we will find a plugin that has a better sound to the hardware any time soon. But I'm more referring to use the advantages of plugins that don't exist in the analogue world. Such plugins like bloom and soothe, pro q3 having a built in spectrum analyser, silencer using ai to gate sound, ozone 11 having the ability to extract the drums, bass and vocal for indivual processing. These kinds of plugins working with analogue processing bring something you otherwise wouldn't have in the analogue world.
Most people compare top tier analog hardware to average plugins :s It would be more interesting to see the sound quality that can be achieved with high end plugins like the Weiss Suite from Softube , Tone Projects (Unisum and Michelangelo), Acustia Pumpkin Pro and Ash Ultra for summit saturation and clipping or the Sontec MES-432D9D. Use those in highest quality/oversampling available to overcome aliasing and you might reconsider you opinion about digital audio in mixing/mastering. But I have to say that 99% of plugins are average at best (Waves Plugin Alliance and co...)
@@bakerlefdaoui6801 I agree that’s what most people do in comparison videos. However, I have a stupid amount of both hardware and plugins. I’ve invested thousands of dollars in Acustica over the past decade, tons of UAD plugins, absolutely love the Tone Projects stuff, and also dig some of the Pulsar Modular plugins. Heck I even really like the effects series Arturia released. I have essentially achieved identical results in the box (believe it or not) but it usually takes way longer - and I also have to create a chain of plugins to do what one awesome piece of hardware can achieve in seconds. That being said, I have a lot of saved effects chains for now and think we will get there eventually. I’m looking forward to every new development - it’s all good fun 😊
The day that this happens is when Shib coin will hit $10😂😂😂😂. Analog is KING!!!!!!
I have the hardware SSL Fusion. I bought it along with a Tegler Creme. My original idea was to buy the Fusion and the Neve MBT, but I didn´t have the extra 4000€ to buy the Neve MBT. I just bought the Nfuse, and used it on a few of my recent mixes, and it sounds AWESOME. I seriously doubt anyone would be able to hear the difference if it were the plugin, or the hardware. The main thing is the music sounds great, and I saved 3900€. :) Thanks for the great review. :)
yeah, amazing times we are living in..
@@DJURBANBGYes!!!!
I’m looking for an analog buscomp and still can’t decide, I’m looking for either the SSL Bus+, Drawmer1978 or the Tegeler Creme.
How much do you like the Tegeler?
I’m very curious about your opinion 😀
I love the Tegeler Creme. It offers a Pultec style EQ along with an SSL style compressor for 1500€, or you can get the Creme RC for 2000€. Tegler also makes other great Compressors, and they will let you try any of their units for 14 days. Great company here in Berlin where I live. I´ve been asking Audio Animals to review the Creme, but they haven´t got around to it yet.
Could I get your thoughts on the MBT VS MBP ? Different device but would you pick one over the other for non mastering , just recording and mixing ?
Thanks
Edit I’m talking hardware
You can watch my review on the MBT VS MBP here: th-cam.com/video/azcn4xRVNDk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=1y5M4XVXJnK1gpwm
Waiting for your bloom review..!
Bloom is awesome. I'll review this soon.
Paul, What are the 20 plugins you use? Is it easy to post it?
This is a video I am going to do next week as a number of people have asked this.
"I don't know, I think the feature in hardware is that it gives a sense of depth, a feeling unrelated to sound but related to emotion."
Great plugin!
I love this channel.... the plugin is no where near as good as I expected.
IMO it’s night and day. Actually I’m thinking of getting my MBT back. It has something in its own domain that no hardware has for now!
it's not even close. i was saving up for the portico, but now i'm saving for the mbt.
It was close. Stop lying to yourself. You're comparing a $99 plugin to a $4000 hardware, and they're really really close.
An every Neve MBT hardware sounds different from each other
4k against 100 dollars. for sure they are close
The plugin is way way better.
Do you think the silk is the same even if you pushed it harder?
The MBT silk works in a much more variable way. The input drive amount plays a part it its sound, so does the harmonics parameter, which the plugin doesn't have.
I for sure use the SSL Bus Comp from the Fusion side if Im using the compressor at all.
the NFuse looks lilke a great demostration on how to design a unique pluigin getting inspiration from 2 modern "all in one" analog mastering tools.
Nice comparison, Try plugin alliance ltl silver bullet, acustica snow. Ofcourse it's different, but please compare. Thanks
Still want an MBT
The difference is very noticeable the Hardware sounds more open
Snare actually sounded better to me on the plugin. Final example sounded pretty darn good on AirPod Pro 2’s!
Same though here
Yes, I agree. In some cases, I did prefer the plugin too. If you look at the plugin as its own plugin, separate from it being a MBT emulation, the plugin is really good.
Nope. Still can't beat the hardware. I can hear the silk even on my phone speaker.
I've got the Rupert Neve Bus Transformer on my shopping list for this year.
Plugins are great... really great! I use them every day.
But after 20 years, I've given up looking for that final 1-5%... it's been hidden inside expensive boxes all this time!
I guess it's also down to personal tastes as well. But I'm a sucker for that upper mid range to top end opening up that the analogue provides.
More separation, smoother and glossy without being harsh or gritty, fuzzy or sharp.
I don't think I could get any information about the low end from the track you picked, there's not enough bass to be able to tell the difference.
I'm utterly obsessed with sound and sound quality and I'm only every satisfied with the best, so I gotta finally pull the trigger on a major studio upgrade.
Shopping List for 2024:
ATC SCM45A's
Rupert Neve Bus Transformer
Burl B2 DAC
Burl B2 ADC
Apollo x6
Tube Tech 2B Multiband
--
Also, you should have provided the original audio level matched because I don't know what was being added, only as comparison.
Why the x6? ( I don't want to critic, just curious). Since your shopping list is quite pristine and has Burl's, I wonder why the x6. :)
@@Yannleon_video Confused me too 🫣
What are the 20 plugins you use?
That's a good question for my Q&A series. Will do this video next week and answer this for you.
Plugins seems a bit louder and brighter on every example
I agree, the Neve Sat in the plugin is really what is cool, and better than the SSL Sat
Why on earth didn't they model the widening section from the MBP? At least that one would have brought something kinda useful to the table. There's just no use in a simple stereo width knob in a new plugin, there's already hundreds out there...
Finally
Great vid and comparison. I both units. I neither for mastering only mixing. Was not aware this plug in dod both. Might add it ti the mobile rig. Slowly building up an plugin collection to match the HW rig.
The switch at the top of each section switches to fusion. So you can use a combination of fusion and mbt. Which I really like. As I don't like the mbt compressor so would happily switch that for a g bus style comp. I'd also probably switch the mbt EQ for the ultra violet EQ. As that's a really nice EQ. I'd also switch the width from time to time as the fusion and the space feature rather than the roll off on mbt. So you can pick and choose which I love.
@@AudioAnimalsStudio Just snapped up fuse. Also grabbed the SSL version which was co-incidentally on offer (now way is it worth the full price RRP for that plugin set. Almost as much as the hardware!). Nfuse at 1/2 price atm too.
@infojunkie4989 let me know what you think. I'd be interested on your thoughts on it as an analogue users.
The only reason I bought it is for the saturation! And the width
I compared the Kiiiiive Demo against my SSL Fusion Hardware. That Plugin sounds totally grab. The MBT Saturation match not badly. But the rest... meeh!
I have the plugin. I m sure the hardware unit is better, but it's $2100. If I was doing pro work and making the $$ I might get the hardware. I like what the plug in did in my mix and for a guy like me doing what I do in the bedroom, it's worth $100.
100% agree
I just want a good emulation of the silk
Kiive did a fantastic job
You seem to be hitting the plugin with a very low input. Is it your contention that in order to get the most accurate emulation of the MBT that the low input is required??
The input is set according to the signal going in. It isn't set low. The silk section to me is far less pleasing when driven. The input is set to 0 apart from the compressor example which requires more input on both plugin and hardware.
@@AudioAnimalsStudio I was referring to the section of the vid after you used to PluginDr. to get the curves closer. In replicating your setting and hitting the plugin with -18db LUFS signal (not touching the gain input or output) the output meter reflects that approx level. Your vid at 10:09 shows a very different output level with only the lowest LED on the output meter being lit. Either that's an error with the metering or it's due to a low input level. What input level are you hitting the plugin in with in your vid? I'm not arguing that the Silk section sounds better if not "driven". it just doesn't seem that -18 db LUFS would be "driven".
@elevateaudioengineering4892 that's a picture and a screenshot. You can see the meter isn't moving. The picture was just taken when the metering was at a lower level.
@@AudioAnimalsStudio I see, so what input level to you prefer to hit the Nfuse plugin with?? Thanks!
They got the most desirable section right.
The other sections can just not be used.
If we talk about widening…in a daw I send a track into another track and into another track all with 100% widening and it sounds sometimes like stuff is playing faar outside of the speakers 😂
So the phase is wrecked completely!
Why track after track...? You can just use a chain of inserts!
Anyway, 100% widening means 0 additional widening. To achieve additional width with stereo effects, you have to push the knob past 100%
@@MOSMASTERING it does help and I have no idea how that mixer works. If we talk about phase I haven’t noticed anything sounding really bad.
Emulation sound, especially saturation sounds like stucking in front. Hardware sound is more dynamic.
Maybe it’s time for me to retire. I’ll listen again on my studio monitors as I’m currently watching from my phone on AirPod Pros and it’s not a night and day difference. ESPECIALLY considering the price difference.
this plugin is going to change the world
Thanks Paul! The hardware is more than a 1db louder... But the difference is clear. To me the hardware sounds better in every aspect, but I also was very impressed with the saturation and the stereo widening on the plugin. Great job by Kiive.
The SSL Fusion is $2,200. The Neve MBT is $4,000. The Klive Audio Nfuse plugin is $99. Decisions, decisions...
Plugin sounds dark and muffled, like all plugins
HW is brighter on headphones
PLugIn always sounds harsh. Prefer the harware version from far.
How surprising that a 4k hardware box sound better than a 100$ plug…..
Not surprising at all
Ok analog sounds better and everybody knows it but the people who buy the music. So now what?
It still comes down to the song.
The people who buy the music may not know it, nor care if it is digital or analogue. But they do know, they just don't know they know. The music will resonate with them and subconsciously without even knowing it they will find it more pleasing to the ear. They will listen again because of this. A brittle harsh listening experience isn't going to resonate with the listener as much as something that is smoother and more pleasing to the ear.
@@AudioAnimalsStudio I agree with you why, because although the buyers can’t hear the difference they can feel the difference.
@LONDONHARRISMUSIC 100%
@@AudioAnimalsStudio have you ever notice how music from the analog days makes your car stereo sound better. It’s like night and day.
@LONDONHARRISMUSIC this would generally be because music from these days is more dynamic. Modern music is much more compressed and artists have an obsession with loudness which has a negative effect. A better dynamic range equals a better sound.
Ya obviously have to justify spending thousands of dollars ... i like the plugin better lol
The plug in loses energy
Why do so many "engineers" use useless demo tracks? A sample based track with poor sounds quality? It's so much harder to hear the difference. And on top of that a lo-fi harsh mic. Whats the problem with that? You check the demo with higher volume then comes the harsh mic at too high volume. Much to learn here.
Because if like me you have ever posted a video to TH-cam that includes audio, it'll get flagged for copyright and the audio muted. The video becomes completely useless if all audio comparing the plugins is muted. You can't use a generic drum loop for the same reason as this is flagged continuously as someone's song. So you have to be very selective over the songs you can use. One of the many struggles with posting content online. Hope this answers your question.
@@AudioAnimalsStudio Ask a producer friend to make a simple but HQ track for you. Sry if you got the complaint but Im really tired of this "problem" beacuse I really wanna hear and see the differences! Thanks anyway!
@mynet1982 doesn't help one bit. Will still get flagged as someone else's song. Doesn't matter if it's 100% unique, the bots that scan youtube audio will think it's a song that has been released. I could use a simple rock drum loop and it'll get flagged as 100 different songs using the same drum pattern. It's something you'll need to take up with youtube. Nothing we can do except find over a period of time using trial and error royalty free music that doesn't get flagged. That's the cold hard facts to answer your question. Our hands are unfortunately tied.
@@AudioAnimalsStudio But some channels use songs? How can this be true?
@mynet1982 they may not monetise their content and or they accept the dispute to give all money made from ads on the video to the artists who's song it is regardless of if it is theirs or not. Almost always the claim is for a song that is not even being used. This is why it is important to use royalty free music. For instance you can use a sample from a sample pack in a production and it'll get flagged as someone else's song who has also used that sample from the sample pack.
After this plugin, I was finally convinced (3785 times) that plugins are bullshit and a scam / 17 years ago they didn’t exist and it was great without them! It’s better to put on nothing than the plug-in crap of these last 15 years = whoever doesn’t hear it - well, his happiness lies in killing his sound/music! (with plugins the SOUND is completely destroyed - its basis is low / middle, etc. +) whistle and harsh highs = HORROR from hell! plugins from the last 15 years! // console+hardware only!
I don't think plugins are a scam. Plugins serve a purpose for people who don't have the hardware but still want to be able to do what is done in a professional studio. 15+ years ago, you'd need to visit a studio in order produce a song. Now anyone anywhere can write and produce music. Can be seen as a bad thing as well as a good thing. Depends on how you look at it. There are many aspects of plugins that are better than anything in the analogue domain. I very much feel it's a combination of the two in a hybrid setup.
Ok boomer
it depends on your skill in mixing also
@user-nr9ln8go8r , you are making fun of yourself with statements like this..
Yes! That's exactly how it is / you have to take the best of everything!
Generally agree with all your conclusions. Few things - Maybe level match a bit closer on EQ for a fairer comparison.But saturation is bang on, with the diference being a matter of taste. I preferred the Plugin IMO. Widening looses the center a bit. But again - level match off by a bit. The plugin's compressor worked better for me too, in bringing stability to the track, but not something that I am using. The final tests, reveals how good this plugin is. Thanks for doing these tests.
The issue with level matching the EQ is that the EQ on the plugin has a higher gain increase on the high band. So level matching wouldn't be fair when comparing plugin to hardware. If you look at the two in Plugin Doctor you will see this. To make this is fair test we must ensure the hardware and plugin are setup exactly the same. Which is why I did the comparison at the end matching the curves.
Did you use oversampling? If not, you should have - at least 4x.
Yes, 16x oversampling.